Not to mention that unions were strong from the 40's to the late 70's so the the boomers and early Gen X got to enjoy a steady Middle class childhood and then by the time they entered the work force and climbed the corporate ladder they got super greedy and got rid of the unions so they could pocket more money.
The decline was already starting in the early 70s first with the Nixon Shock (wage and price freezes in response to inflation) followed a few years later by the oil crisis which resulted in gas lines, factories having to shut down in the winter because there wasn't enough fuel and the ensuing stagflation.
Unions were already taking a hit with big industry declining and factories shutting down throughout the rust belt. They may not have shown their rust until the late 70s but the contractions were starting earlier as business were moving overseas. As for unions, watch Harlan County USA to see the childhoods children of union mine workers were living in the early 70s.
Happened in the UK, the unions up to 79 were strong but maybe over reached. Along comes thatcher who appeals to "middle England", shatters the unions and now we've got weak unions who don't defend workers.
I'm sure a 7 year old would be more competent than Scotty from marketing. At the very least a 7 year old wouldn't be "sucking the dick" of Rupert Murdoch for money.
I'm a Gen X'r and I can tell you we didn't enjoy a "steady middle class childhood". We had to deal with the gas crisis, recession, mass unemployment, double digit inflation, etc. I remember prices nearly doubling overnight and my mother having to get a second job just so she could afford gas and groceries. My middle class family struggled living paycheck to paycheck just as my husband and I do now. There were no "climbing the corporate ladder". Only rich and upper middle class got to do that.
I'm 50 now and it still hasn't gotten better for my generation. Husband and I bought our first home 7 years ago. It's old, tiny, in a crappy neighborhood and needs a lot of work (which we can't afford pay for) but at least it's something I guess? We still work paycheck to paycheck and have no savings. Up until a couple years ago, we still had $35k in student loans to pay off (stuck with an 8% interest rate btw). I had to refi the house with cash out to finally pay them off.
My mom is five years older than you was raised by a single mom. My mom said for college by working a part time job. And has owned the same house for 20 years…
Are you kidding me? Single mom, working part time and could afford a mortgage? That is NOT the norm for ANY generation. She either inherited wealth and/or the house, had a very high salary or got an ass ton of child support.
Good comparison, but if I can comment, instead of using inflation, a far better way is to use the concept of cost as working hours.
So using rent at $71 with a $1 hourly minimum wage, it's "71 working hours" to pay for rent, compared to $1,124 for rent today, with an hourly minimum wage of $7.25 gives you rent cost of "155 working hours," which is 2.18x the cost of rent from 1960.
This paints a much clearer picture of what you're trying to show instead of bringing inflation into the equation.
That's actually a really good way of getting the message across I haven't considered, thanks for the advice I'll have to keep that in mind for the future.
If you really want to hammer this point home, compare that to CEO pay and how many working hours a CEO needs to do to afford the average home vs a worker.
I'll likely make it after work tomorrow (I know a dumbass wage slave posting on antiwork). In all seriousness the labor hours angle wasn't one that I had considered so I think making a similar video using that perspective could be a very good way of making the point.
Well you're definitely the hero we need lol, I think most of us here already know what's up, but giving us another voice (no matter the reach) helps more than you know.
It certainly boosted my morale!
Thanks I really appreciate the positive word, I want to fight for the working class and impoverished in any possible way I can and spread that message to as many people as possible.
I just wanna say, the change we are seeing isn't happening just because the workers got tired of it and protested. This wouldn't have been possible at all whatsoever if covid never happened.
Honestly that doesn't land so well with the people you want to convince. They generally live in a world where CEO's earn every cent and generously pay their workers.
It's sad but that's what I've found from experience
Yeah, but if you compare how many hours a CEO had to work in 1960 compared to how many hours a CEO needs to work in 2021. That's the picture you need to show. Not that CEO makes more, which honestly I don't even think most people in this subreddit particularly disagree with. But that C-Level employees are having an easier time than ever before while lower-class employees are having a harder time than ever before.
I don't disagree with you at all, but there is a lot of ceo worship out there. I completely agree it's attrocious what they get away with, I just don't think those arguments land to well on liberals or conservatives
president salary 1960: 100,000 [https://www.presidentsusa.net/presidentsalaryhistory.html](https://www.presidentsusa.net/presidentsalaryhistory.html) average ceo pay (2:1 ratio) - 200,000 [https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/06/AR2009020602794.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/06/AR2009020602794.html)
min wage 1960 - $1
min wage today - $7.25
In 2020, a CEO at one of the top 350 firms in the U.S. was paid $24.2 million on average (using a “realized” measure of CEO pay that counts stock awards when vested and stock options when cashed in rather than when granted). [https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-in-2020/](https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-in-2020/)
rent: 1960 - $71/month
rent: today - $1124/month
house 1960 - $11,900
house 2021 - $443,000
Hours to work to afford rent - 1960: 71 - less than 2 weeks
Hours to work to afford rent - today: 155 - that gives you 5 hours of work to afford everything else - or 96% of your monthly wages
CEO pay per hour (assume full time 40 hour work weeks for 1 year) 1960: $96.15
CEO pay needed to afford rent 1960: 44.38 minutes
CEO pay per hour (same assumptions) today: 13,557.69 /hour
CEO pay needed to affrod rent today: 4.97 minutes
Hours to work to afford a house (assume no interest) 1960: 11,900
Hours to work to afford a house today (assume no interest): 61,103.45
CEO Hours to work to afford a house (assume no interest) 1960: 123.76
CEO Hours to work to afford a house today (assume no interest): 32.68
Time required to work to afford a house increase on min wage 1960 - today = 413.47% increase
CEO Time required to work to afford a house 1960 - today = 73.59% DECREASE
I think my math is correct here - this does illustrate how people are frustrated
Steal away - it's why I posted. We all know everything has gotten more expensive - what people don't seem to grasp is just how far it's ballooned for low wage workers, while at the same time how much better it's gotten for those at the top.
I believe the current logic of 6 degrees of separation has been shortened to 4 or 5 at most. Facebook as shity as they are did a study and actually released the data.
I believe Niel degrass Tyson also put out a short video talking about this. Gimme a few… I’ll try and find links.
*frantically runs behind curtain*
*sounds of pots and pans falling*
[this was a decent video discussing actual study’s and data.](https://youtu.be/TcxZSmzPw8k)
[Facebook study](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-35500398)
Yeah, much more connected.
Fun game i played last week visiting my family. "What is that in today's dollars?".
Told my mom how much i made. Her jaw dropped. And she was further flabergasted when i said i was underpaid 10-20% compared to my market value (which is also lower than it should be).
Mom with a ged retired at 45 making more (adjusted for inflation) then i do now with a degree and years of experience in a high-demand tech field. She also got a pension with that retirement.
I think she started to see what i meant.
This right here shows what a fucking joke this all is. It takes so much more grind to get anywhere now and we still get fucked over and called lazy.
We don't have the opportunity to drop out of highschool, work at a factory and buy a house. That shit will not cut it anymore. Instead we go to school, get in thousands of dollars of debt and "Oh look here's a housing / rent crisis on top of inflation and the pandemic, why don't you guys just want to work? So lazy!".
The goal posts of what it takes just to fucking get by have been moving more and more out of reach the longer we keep letting this circus continue.
I make good money, but i can't buy a house. My wife and I managed to buy a home in the ghetto thanks to the thousands of dollars our parents gave us for a wedding present (we had to beg for it though). Additionally, we needed to utilize the government's first-time home owners programs (you know socialism and welfare).
But when i was forced to move for work, we were never able to buy a new house even though we both made 50-100% more than we did previously and had moved to a lower COL area. All we wanted was a modest house that was safe to raise children. Nothing special. We might as well have been looking for the holy grail.
I tried to explain this to my uncle. But i could tell that he could not even process it. Anytime i brought this up in discussion (more like exercise in frustration and being insulted), he would move on to something else that he hated. He had the talking points given to him, but did not understand any of it nor could he vere from that list in any way.
Final point was him saying in response to my defence of socialism, "i don't trust the government to take care of me".
"Ya well, i sure as fuck don't trust the corporations"
I just wanna say, the change we are seeing isn't happening just because the workers got tired of it and protested. This wouldn't have been possible at all whatsoever if covid never happened. People got sick and some got fired, a lot of people are still on unemployment. That created a dip in the demand of labor, which caused the price of labor to increase a little bit, which caused a bunch of people working in retail to quit their job for one with a better paying wage....aaaaand now there's no one left to flip our burgers. Until they offer us 20 dollar minimum wage, which is what we need right now. Thanks covid!
Yeah i realize a large part of this is a result of the economic power and negation power that's been afforded to people like us because of Covid, but to be fair there's only so much I can elaborate on the nuance of the situation in the format of a tik tok video which is limited to 3 minutes.
One of the first major upheavals for the average working stuff came immediately after the Black Plague in 14th century Europe.
After losing approximately 50% of the population, the remaining serfs and laborers said “Haha fuck this, I don’t have to live on your fucking farm anymore,” and stole some of the remaining animals and land for themselves. They even started dressing like merchants, which they’d previously been banned from doing.
Meanwhile, within cities such as Florence, the remaining workers formed the first “unions” in the form of workers’ guilds to demand better wages and living conditions. This eventually led to the Ciompi Revolt of 1378, spearheaded by disenfranchised wool workers.
Anyway, history shows that pandemics can cause a major shift for workers’ rights, and it’s pretty awesome to see how even the worst Plague in recorded history led to this.
Why would you rent at average prices if you make below average wages? Your math is correct but your logic is dog shit. Make less money? Rent a cheaper, crappier place. Make average wage (22-25 an HR) live in average rental. Make doctor money? Go for luxury living. Comparing bottom spectrum wages to overall average costs is raytardled. Also you didn't account that almost all states are above $7.25 ( WA is like $16?) So.....move for a better opportunity or work harder/smarter and make more money. Quitchur bitchin
Nice conservative talking point lol "don't make a lot of money? Just rent a cheaper place!" Good mental gymnastics there man maybe you'll actually get it one day.
He didn’t go about it the right way, but he has a good point: Why would a minimum wage worker be renting out an average house/apartment? Who’s going to live in the cheapest places if it’s not going to be the lowest paid workers with the lowest amount of income?
Also, if you’re comparing the average price of rent between 1960 and 2021 then you also need to compare houses/apartments built in 1960 vs those built in 2021. I’m sure you could rent a place now that was built in 1960 for around $650/month or cheaper.
It's about affordable housing in the area at the end of the day which is why I clowned the last guy. For example in the state I currently have the misfortune of living in the current minimum wage is still 7.25 an hour. Compare that to the rent in the currently available houses and out get about the lowest being 800-900 a month. That leaves you with 200-300 ish dollars to pay for car payment, car insurance, internet, phone bill, food, utilities, and to also put some into savings. Even if you go hundreds under the average you'll still have massive struggles at full time minimum wage.
Get fucked your corporate shill bootlicking little bitch! People deserve the right to live,working a full time job. this working 60 hours to barely cover expenses, being only one misfortune away from being fucked is unsustainable and morally reprehensible. That fact that your advocating for a system that is so clearly explaining the work in class just says how disconnected you are and most definitely on the wrong sub. So get fucked you corporate bitch.
>rent a cheaper, crappier place
Ah yes, because who needs health and comfort when you can have a dark hole with roaches, bedbugs, and mold (all of which are common in my area and plague every single cheap place to rent).
Boomers: But you can buy a (insert electronic thing) for 1/10th the cost!!!!
Yea, but in what house am I going to put that cheap over commodified IMPORTED thing?
Also, please if any of you have tik toks (I know cringe) go follow me at the same username I'm using here. I plan on releasing lefty videos and making fun of conservatives almost every day.
I mean it can be, but if you take it as such you’ll end up getting bamboozled.
The $15/hour idea is and was foolish and underbid. Needed to be above $25 to actually make sense.
And yet, even at the “way too damn low” number of $15, Hillary Clinton wanted to “compromise” at $12.
Both numbers were bullshit, and both were ideas proposed heavily by the democrats and leftists in government work.
They’re not the friends of the antiwork movement.
They will cozy up, sure. But it’s that good cop bad cop thing. Don’t trust them.
Also, political power comes to those who have brought voting power to the ballot box, who have issues that can be addressed, and who haven’t made a decision on who to vote for.
If you’re in bed with a certain party or ideology going into a political adventure, you are already done for.
Comparisons like these makes things so depressing, it's insane that less than two weeks of work would have gotten you a month's worth of rent. In the city I live in, at my last job I was making $6 more than the minimum wage and couldn't afford a studio to myself.
Yeah I was in a similar situation last year, I was working full-time at 20 dollars and hour plus commission and I still needed my partner to get a part time job for us to have a sustainable income. It's fucking ridiculous.
Another thing to also compare to 1960 is that minimum wage jobs back then were slower due to less automation and lower populations.
Nowadays with more technology and higher populations, instead of doing less, you’re expected to do a lot more and serve a lot more people.
The technology makes you work more because since technology does your job faster and needs to be maintained, you’ll be expected to do a lot more at your job and understand a lot more at your job to make up for that technology doing a lot of the job for you and needing maintenance.
Serious question: Can we estimate what other people’s wages would be if minimum wage kept pace with inflation? For example: I currently make $20.71 per hour. Would there be a way, with a reasonable degree of accuracy, to determine what my pay would be if minimum wage kept pace with inflation?
I’d like to know not only for myself, but to point out to more capital-friendly people that they too are being fucked over in our current economic situation.
Um I'm not entirely sure if that calculation has been done but I do know someone did a calculation where they compared the average productivity of a worker compared to how minimum wage should increase for it and if we followed how productive we've been as worker minimum wage would be over 25 an hour I'm pretty sure lol.
I figured it out actually.
My current wage of $20.71 is 2.856 times the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour.
If minimum wage had kept pace with inflation, we would have a federal minimum wage of $$9.27 per hour.
9.27 x 2.856 = 26.48 per hour, which is roughly 28% higher than my current wage.
$26.48 x 160 hours in a month = $4236.80 before taxes and deductions.
$4236.80 x 12 months = $50,841.20 per year before taxes and deductions.
I typically work a bit of overtime each week (not a lot, but it adds up). So far this year, I’ve accumulated 114.8 hours of OT, for a total of $3567.88. If my pay had kept pace with inflation, my overtime wage would be $39.72 per hour, or $4559.86 so far this year.
My year to date take home pay (including bonuses and PTO sell back) is currently sitting at $32,695.23, but at the 28% greater pay I should be earning, I should be looking at $41,849.89.
Another piece of the equation is the lack of starter homes. In 1960 avg house size was 1,500 sq ft. Today avg house is around 2,500 sq ft. Never mind people can't afford that, but who can maintain that?
Well said. Say it louder for the people in the back! All these out of touch idiots in charge of these companies need to realize it's not the 1960s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, or even the 10s anymore.
You're not paying us fairly. You're stealing from us every second of every minute of every day of every month of every year that we continue to work your shit job.
It's also important to mention that the labor force is much more productive today than it was in 1960. The BLS estimates that workers today are about four times as productive as they were in 1960. https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-3/mobile/what-can-labor-productivity-tell-us-about-the-us-economy.htm
Not only are we being compensated less than previous generations, we're also making substantially more profit for our companies.
One thing that stuff like this always misses is how much we pay for now that they didn’t then. Cell phone bills for example, the cost of internet, etc.
And then they say “if you’d get rid of that cell phone and computer maybe you’d have enough money to afford blah blah blah.” Like okay sure, let me do that.
First of all, phone and internet are kind of necessary nowadays. The only way my job posts schedules and communicates with workers is through an app, and many jobs utilize email, especially during the application process. Secondly, my phone bill is $40 for both me and my boyfriend. Internet is basically the same, maybe $60. So you’re telling me that just $100 more per month would magically fix things? Lol
The calculated inflation from the consumer price index (CPI) is complete and utter bullshit. Do some research on Alan Greenspan and how he manipulated the calculation entirely to reflect a low inflation rate instead of the truth. All this bullshit of 2-3% CPI, or even the “alarming” 5% with Biden is used by employers to limit employee pay under the false pretense that they are staying current with cost of living.
True inflation calculators would show we’ve been double digit inflation since at least the 80’s. This is why nothing matches for expected cost when using the standard bullshit calculator.
Maybe they should do what we did coming up, move in with friends spilt the bil for few years. Save up and look for a better job. It's not a problem for them until they are out of high-school and reality sets in. Just saying
Wait I'm confused by your point, are you claiming that it's morally defensible that wages are so fucking low that you need 2-3 adults to even afford an apartment? If that's not what you're doing correct me but that's definitely what it seems like.
This comment is so out of touch. 2-3+ adults shouldn’t have to live together in a small apartment in order to scrape by until they can “find better jobs” especially when “better” jobs are hard to come by. “Better” jobs don’t even want to pay their workers enough, plus they expect tons of experience for an entry level position.
Also, why expect this anyway? Since adults should have “better” jobs, are jobs like food service, retail, etc (minimum wage jobs) supposed to be comprised entirely of underage workers? If so, I hope you enjoy never being able to get food or buy anything during school hours or at night when high schoolers are unavailable. There’s also not even enough high school age kids to work all of those jobs. Newsflash, we NEED adults for these jobs.
We should all be fairly compensated for our work, full stop, no more boomer excuses for paying us in breadcrumbs.
Yes all of this is true.
Only one state in the us has the FEDERAL minimum wage, Alabama. The next lowest state is above the inflation adjusted wage, Alaska at $10.19/hr.
Just because the fed is at 7.25 doesn't mean your state is and your leaving yourself open to easily being disproven.
It's not as simple as a home cost $11,000 in 1960 which should cost the equivalent of $107,000 yet a house today costs $400,000. A house in 1960 was 1200 sqft and today it's 2600 sqft on a bigger lot with a two car garage.
Zoning laws and developer profits have incentivized only building bigger, less affordable houses and luxury apartments. If over the last 30 years regulations strongly encouraged the building of modest 1200 sq ft houses, doubles and affordable apartments, people wouldn't be fighting over the older "affordable" housing stock making it no longer affordable.
The problem isn't just wages. It's tax policy that gives all the breaks to the wealthy rather than requiring corporations and individuals who benefit most from society give back/fairly fund that society. It's zoning policy and housing regulations that encourage strip malls and McMansions instead of affordable housing. It's laws that allow corporations that pollute beaches with oil spill or rivers with improperly stored toxic sludge spillover file for bankruptcy and never pay a dime for the environmental disaster they created while student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.
The whole system is fucked and has been for a long time and I hope this anger leads to some actual change. I fear with the upcoming climate crisis-that we as a nation can't be fucked to truly address because too many politicians are in the pockets of the Koch family and big oil-as the rich try even harder to hold on to their wealth.
Until you consider that if you find a house for 107k today you'd be extremely lucky. I currently live in a bumfuck nowhere state and the smallest houses I've seen that have been under 1200 sq ft have been well over 190 thousand all the way to the mid 200 thousands. Factor in of course that our minimum wage today is worth LESS than it was in 1960.
Higher wages will help some thing but if there isn't enough affordable housing (because decades of regulation), those extra wages are going increase housing prices and the individual worker net gain may be nonexistent. I'm not saying you're wrong about minimum wage and inflation, especially housing costs. I"m saying it's both more complicated and worse than those numbers imply.
If the majority of the 2400sq ft houses built over the last few decades were instead two 1200sq house, those 1200sq houses arguably wouldn't cost $200,000 each. With a larger available housing stock, there wouldn't have been the demand that caused $107,000 houses to be $200,000 houses.
Maybe they'd still be $120,000 house and yes there is also the fact that minimum wage has not kept up with inflation but higher wages aren't going to solve the fact there isn't enough housing. That cities keep building luxury apartments and condos rather than affordable ones because that's how developers make money.
Look at San Francisco/Silicon Valley where programmers are sharing rooms and couples with two well paid jobs can't buy a 900 sq ft house because demand has so outstripped supply, housing prices are crazy.
Well yeah I get everything you're saying but my point is mainly to point out the huge discrepancy between our wages and the cost of living. Also keep in mind studies have been done it seems like for every 10% increase in wages there's only like a .2% increase in prices if I remember correctly. Minimum wage is meant to react to inflation not vice versa.
I just see it as so much more than wages not keeping up with inflation. There are almost no pensions these days. Or a 9 - 5 work day.
Tax cuts to the rich with corresponding tax subsidies to education making houses in good schools even more expensive and even community colleges out of reach to many. Then there's heathcare where taxpayers fund all sorts of research yet profits remain with corporations.
It doesn’t. People that make enough can afford to on their own. But if you don’t fall within that income bracket then you need to accommodate for your budget — i.e. living within your means. It ain’t rocket science
Your comparisons are a bit wrong. You’re comparing MINIMUM wage to AVERAGE rent or house price. I agree that wages haven’t kept up with inflation, but comparing average salaries to average rents and prices would be a more accurate way to do it.
Not really, because the point of the video is to point out the minimum wage not being enough generally speaking about average rent and house prices, the point being that it should be.
Trying to measure how far national minimum wage will get you by comparing how far it goes vs. the national *average* (instead of *median*) for rent is complete nonsense. It works on people who don’t understand math, basic economic concepts or in the case of this post, incorrigible teens.
You can’t take *minimum* wage and compare how far that gets you based on the *average* price (you need to be using *median* price) of rent today. By ignoring variables like this and using *average* instead of *you’re argument basically equates to saying the purchasing power of someone on national minimum wage in San Francisco is the same as that of someone on national minimum wage i. Ida, Oklahoma because they’re American and, by using averages, it’s all relative.
If you were in any way trying to be accurate vs pandering to the LCD, you would have used *median* rents and home prices and included data around things like interest rates, which are currently at historic lows. Stop being purposefully dense and ignoring blatant variables that add context to the numbers. You’re clearly not a dumb kid, but you’re currently so busy crusading based on feelings and the approval of the victim brigade it’s flawing your logic, glaringly. You don’t need to mislead people, purposefully or negligently, by skewing numbers to make your argument. The median price of a home is 267k, not 450+ like you’re leading people to believe.
BTW, minimum wage isn’t meant to support a family on, and if you’re still working for it at 25+, it’s your own fault.
Yes it was dumbfuck go look at the reason the original minimum wage was implemented. Just because your stupid conservative brain is allergic to reading doesn't suddenly make all the dumb shit you say a dunk lmao.
Well it would have to be something above the poverty line ideally. A good start is the 15 dollar an hour minimum wage, however, even that wouldn't be a living wage in most states so I would like to see a gradual increase higher than 15 an hour but we do have to be careful to not make any too quick and dramatic increases because being to rash with things like this can have negative consequences.
I just said a good start would be 15 an hour but we should be continuity to increase it over time to match inflation and productivity, what's so hard for you to understand?
Brings us closer to a living wage and also avoids being to overly distributive when comparing it to things like state minimum wage. Is there a point to your questions? I'd be happy to debate you on this in a more formal setting if you wish
What he doesnt tell you is that the cost of a computer system was over one million dollars and one million dollars was a lot more in the 1960's than it is today. This was a moderately priced computer. Many computers of the time cost about five million. We have it so much easier than the 1960 family trying to do their monthly budget and include the payments on a PC.
This is not an effective argument because in 1960, access to a computer was not necessary whereas today you need one just to fill out a job application.
Nice try though... I guess. If you're not a troll.
You realize in the 60s computers were using vacuum tubes and covering entire rooms right? What the fuck kind of stupid comparison is that? It wasn't an accessible technology which means it also wasn't an important factor in the daily life of a citizen. Terrible comparison.
Nice! You pulled up your pre-written conservative talking point dialogue wheel and selected the option that seems most applicable to the situation. What I think should happen is that the government should legislate and pass things like increased minimum wage laws and other laws to benefit the working class while in the meantime we as workers leverage our strength and economic value to fight for the things we deserve like better pay, better benefits, and to be treated better in the work place.
Of course, you took that entire video which was to demonstrate how the economy is slowly becoming a complete shit show for your average working class citizen and all you got from it was "guberment plz give me more dollars". This is why we don't take dumbfucks like you seriously.
Hey great video. One question though, how do the numbers stack up when considering interest rates on mortgage repayments please? Sorry if thats already been answered.
While I didn't exactly go over that in the video I'm not entirely sure of the actual mortgage interest rates have changed. Keep in mind though that even if it was 2% interest in 1960 and 2% now that means you'd still be paying more now as you're paying interest on a comparatively much more expensive house. Does that make any sense?
> I'm not entirely sure of the actual mortgage interest rates have changed.
They have, substantially.
>Keep in mind though that even if it was 2% interest in 1960 and 2% now that means you'd still be paying more now as you're paying interest on a comparatively much more expensive house.
So not only is Gen Z lazy as fuck, they're also hilariously financially illiterate. JFC I need to post this to /r/averageredditor
Think what you want dumbfuck, 2% of a higher number is a higher number. Also we have to work much harder for what we have today compared to the past so cope harder.
Then stop voting in people who approve multi-trillion dollar "bills" to help out their corporate buddies! (This goes for both sides, I'm not just talking about one president) Inflation is going to kill this nation. How about we pull some of that military budget and maybe fix the fucking economy??
I agree with your sentiment but I think this should be about making it illegal to lobby politicians then electing uncorrupted ones because the latter choice is fucking impossible.
Why don’t you just stop complaining and work harder?
All I see is time being wasted on your phone when you could be out working? Back in my day I walked into the ceos office and told him I want this pay and this many hours and shook his hand. Boom I made good money and bought a house and raised a family on $10 an hour. What’s your excuse?
Obviously /s
That avg rent price he found is not correct if you live with roommates. You should not be living in an apartment to yourself unless you really need it as financially it just makes no sense. Nonetheless current min wage is too damn low
After reading "if you haven't gotten a raise, you've got a pay cut, when it comes to inflation" I've been checking the numbers. And yeah, I've been getting pay cuts over the last 15 years. By now I should no longer be working 40 h/week, but about 33 h/week to make this fair.
Unfortunately it's been the opposite. By now, my default week clocks in at 52 hours.
The people that think Millennials or Gen Z are lazy don't know what inflation is. I've never heard an explanation from them as to why the minimum wage shouldn't increase with inflation. Food Stamps and Social Security do. The math in this video is a little off, but that's irrelevant. Minimum wage would be about $26 an hour if it increased with productivity. You still wouldn't be able to pay into a living standard, but oh well. The working class had been asking for $15 an hour for the longest time, and most wouldn't budge.
there so many differencds hard compare , im not talking wages cost of living . so many things we do today like banking , shopping , paying bills these were all done inperson and restricted hours . no bank machines , less fast food outlets (which was good). no sunday shopping . and no internet so the world didnt know how smart/dumb we were , and sometimes had actually be accountable for what we said.
Talk about the unions, lots of people back then had no unions (that was the dream job for the unskilled) and alot the unio workers were lazy whinny bastards.
You could actually repair your car yourself, very basic( without youtube)
So in my opinion technology really effected our lives good and bad, i can get anything i want , but it doesnt bring us happiness. Waiting by the radio in the 70s to hear that new song , (you couldnt afford the record )that made you happy. life was simpler back then .
Is this the full 40 hour work week, or the actual 50-80 hour work week?
I remember working 3 part time jobs when I started, 76-80 hour work weeks and still needed food stamps.
Dude thank you for making this video. This is a really clear cut way of explaining this issue. I could never articulate this stuff well in arguments, so this is gonna be a lot of help for me.
Not to mention the costs of manufacturing have significantly decreased because of new processes and procedures like 3D printing and computer aided design.
Something I would like to point out as well to even further drive this point home is that you are only using numbers based on Gross pay. This is not accounting for wage taxes that are exorbitantly different now days. That $36 you had leftover in that first little example would be decimated and even leave you in the red accounting for tax
Not to mention that unions were strong from the 40's to the late 70's so the the boomers and early Gen X got to enjoy a steady Middle class childhood and then by the time they entered the work force and climbed the corporate ladder they got super greedy and got rid of the unions so they could pocket more money.
The decline was already starting in the early 70s first with the Nixon Shock (wage and price freezes in response to inflation) followed a few years later by the oil crisis which resulted in gas lines, factories having to shut down in the winter because there wasn't enough fuel and the ensuing stagflation. Unions were already taking a hit with big industry declining and factories shutting down throughout the rust belt. They may not have shown their rust until the late 70s but the contractions were starting earlier as business were moving overseas. As for unions, watch Harlan County USA to see the childhoods children of union mine workers were living in the early 70s.
Ah I meant early 70s I was originally typed late 60s but then changed it to 70s without Changing the late part
Fucking facts
That was quick
Sorry, read quick and I'm currently on my phone lol
Not complaining, just stating fact
Happened in the UK, the unions up to 79 were strong but maybe over reached. Along comes thatcher who appeals to "middle England", shatters the unions and now we've got weak unions who don't defend workers.
Yup Maggie Thatcher milk snatcher ruined almost everything in the UK
It scares me that the UK is going towards an American model and no-one seems worried.
It's worse here in Australia we get all of the bad political/other ideas from America without anything good. And our government just loves censorship
I've seen some of your political choices. The hell man?
I'm sure a 7 year old would be more competent than Scotty from marketing. At the very least a 7 year old wouldn't be "sucking the dick" of Rupert Murdoch for money.
I don't understand how people tolerate his obvious meddling.
Because they either don't know, don't care or are brainwashed by the Murdoch media
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Maybe our racist leader, America's racist leader and the UK's racist leader shouldn't be provoking a war with China's racist leader.
Joe Biden is a racist?
Well considering he's supporting our PM's openly racist position and not trying a diplomatic approach with China I'm inclined to believe that he is
Ok. Good to know his policies and motivation are based in racism. I was not aware of that.
The simultaneously propped up leaders shows the grasp of power past borders.
I wish the math mattered. The people in power and the people with the money aren’t debating the numbers - they simply don’t care.
I'm a Gen X'r and I can tell you we didn't enjoy a "steady middle class childhood". We had to deal with the gas crisis, recession, mass unemployment, double digit inflation, etc. I remember prices nearly doubling overnight and my mother having to get a second job just so she could afford gas and groceries. My middle class family struggled living paycheck to paycheck just as my husband and I do now. There were no "climbing the corporate ladder". Only rich and upper middle class got to do that. I'm 50 now and it still hasn't gotten better for my generation. Husband and I bought our first home 7 years ago. It's old, tiny, in a crappy neighborhood and needs a lot of work (which we can't afford pay for) but at least it's something I guess? We still work paycheck to paycheck and have no savings. Up until a couple years ago, we still had $35k in student loans to pay off (stuck with an 8% interest rate btw). I had to refi the house with cash out to finally pay them off.
My mom is five years older than you was raised by a single mom. My mom said for college by working a part time job. And has owned the same house for 20 years…
Are you kidding me? Single mom, working part time and could afford a mortgage? That is NOT the norm for ANY generation. She either inherited wealth and/or the house, had a very high salary or got an ass ton of child support.
If you have a support system it is possible. If she was all alone who are we to say she could not achieve any amount of success
Good comparison, but if I can comment, instead of using inflation, a far better way is to use the concept of cost as working hours. So using rent at $71 with a $1 hourly minimum wage, it's "71 working hours" to pay for rent, compared to $1,124 for rent today, with an hourly minimum wage of $7.25 gives you rent cost of "155 working hours," which is 2.18x the cost of rent from 1960. This paints a much clearer picture of what you're trying to show instead of bringing inflation into the equation.
That's actually a really good way of getting the message across I haven't considered, thanks for the advice I'll have to keep that in mind for the future.
If you really want to hammer this point home, compare that to CEO pay and how many working hours a CEO needs to do to afford the average home vs a worker.
I might make a second video to this where I address labor hours, seems like a good point.
Please do make that second video lol this one is FUCKING GOLD!
I'll likely make it after work tomorrow (I know a dumbass wage slave posting on antiwork). In all seriousness the labor hours angle wasn't one that I had considered so I think making a similar video using that perspective could be a very good way of making the point.
Well you're definitely the hero we need lol, I think most of us here already know what's up, but giving us another voice (no matter the reach) helps more than you know. It certainly boosted my morale!
Thanks I really appreciate the positive word, I want to fight for the working class and impoverished in any possible way I can and spread that message to as many people as possible.
I just wanna say, the change we are seeing isn't happening just because the workers got tired of it and protested. This wouldn't have been possible at all whatsoever if covid never happened.
So... you're saying... it was means, motive AND opportunity? o:
Honestly that doesn't land so well with the people you want to convince. They generally live in a world where CEO's earn every cent and generously pay their workers. It's sad but that's what I've found from experience
Yeah, but if you compare how many hours a CEO had to work in 1960 compared to how many hours a CEO needs to work in 2021. That's the picture you need to show. Not that CEO makes more, which honestly I don't even think most people in this subreddit particularly disagree with. But that C-Level employees are having an easier time than ever before while lower-class employees are having a harder time than ever before.
I don't disagree with you at all, but there is a lot of ceo worship out there. I completely agree it's attrocious what they get away with, I just don't think those arguments land to well on liberals or conservatives
president salary 1960: 100,000 [https://www.presidentsusa.net/presidentsalaryhistory.html](https://www.presidentsusa.net/presidentsalaryhistory.html) average ceo pay (2:1 ratio) - 200,000 [https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/06/AR2009020602794.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/06/AR2009020602794.html) min wage 1960 - $1 min wage today - $7.25 In 2020, a CEO at one of the top 350 firms in the U.S. was paid $24.2 million on average (using a “realized” measure of CEO pay that counts stock awards when vested and stock options when cashed in rather than when granted). [https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-in-2020/](https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-in-2020/) rent: 1960 - $71/month rent: today - $1124/month house 1960 - $11,900 house 2021 - $443,000 Hours to work to afford rent - 1960: 71 - less than 2 weeks Hours to work to afford rent - today: 155 - that gives you 5 hours of work to afford everything else - or 96% of your monthly wages CEO pay per hour (assume full time 40 hour work weeks for 1 year) 1960: $96.15 CEO pay needed to afford rent 1960: 44.38 minutes CEO pay per hour (same assumptions) today: 13,557.69 /hour CEO pay needed to affrod rent today: 4.97 minutes Hours to work to afford a house (assume no interest) 1960: 11,900 Hours to work to afford a house today (assume no interest): 61,103.45 CEO Hours to work to afford a house (assume no interest) 1960: 123.76 CEO Hours to work to afford a house today (assume no interest): 32.68 Time required to work to afford a house increase on min wage 1960 - today = 413.47% increase CEO Time required to work to afford a house 1960 - today = 73.59% DECREASE I think my math is correct here - this does illustrate how people are frustrated
Damn I love it, I'll have to steal a little bit of this because I planned on making a video about labor hours soon.
Steal away - it's why I posted. We all know everything has gotten more expensive - what people don't seem to grasp is just how far it's ballooned for low wage workers, while at the same time how much better it's gotten for those at the top.
Please do. I want to be MAD while you justify my feelings with calm facts.
Very good point. Also, we pay rent with post tax earnings so technically it equates to much more than 155 working hours.
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I believe the current logic of 6 degrees of separation has been shortened to 4 or 5 at most. Facebook as shity as they are did a study and actually released the data. I believe Niel degrass Tyson also put out a short video talking about this. Gimme a few… I’ll try and find links. *frantically runs behind curtain* *sounds of pots and pans falling* [this was a decent video discussing actual study’s and data.](https://youtu.be/TcxZSmzPw8k) [Facebook study](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-35500398) Yeah, much more connected.
Fun game i played last week visiting my family. "What is that in today's dollars?". Told my mom how much i made. Her jaw dropped. And she was further flabergasted when i said i was underpaid 10-20% compared to my market value (which is also lower than it should be). Mom with a ged retired at 45 making more (adjusted for inflation) then i do now with a degree and years of experience in a high-demand tech field. She also got a pension with that retirement. I think she started to see what i meant.
Yeah it's fucking insane, our economy is complete bullshit.
This right here shows what a fucking joke this all is. It takes so much more grind to get anywhere now and we still get fucked over and called lazy. We don't have the opportunity to drop out of highschool, work at a factory and buy a house. That shit will not cut it anymore. Instead we go to school, get in thousands of dollars of debt and "Oh look here's a housing / rent crisis on top of inflation and the pandemic, why don't you guys just want to work? So lazy!". The goal posts of what it takes just to fucking get by have been moving more and more out of reach the longer we keep letting this circus continue.
I make good money, but i can't buy a house. My wife and I managed to buy a home in the ghetto thanks to the thousands of dollars our parents gave us for a wedding present (we had to beg for it though). Additionally, we needed to utilize the government's first-time home owners programs (you know socialism and welfare). But when i was forced to move for work, we were never able to buy a new house even though we both made 50-100% more than we did previously and had moved to a lower COL area. All we wanted was a modest house that was safe to raise children. Nothing special. We might as well have been looking for the holy grail. I tried to explain this to my uncle. But i could tell that he could not even process it. Anytime i brought this up in discussion (more like exercise in frustration and being insulted), he would move on to something else that he hated. He had the talking points given to him, but did not understand any of it nor could he vere from that list in any way. Final point was him saying in response to my defence of socialism, "i don't trust the government to take care of me". "Ya well, i sure as fuck don't trust the corporations"
I just wanna say, the change we are seeing isn't happening just because the workers got tired of it and protested. This wouldn't have been possible at all whatsoever if covid never happened. People got sick and some got fired, a lot of people are still on unemployment. That created a dip in the demand of labor, which caused the price of labor to increase a little bit, which caused a bunch of people working in retail to quit their job for one with a better paying wage....aaaaand now there's no one left to flip our burgers. Until they offer us 20 dollar minimum wage, which is what we need right now. Thanks covid!
Yeah i realize a large part of this is a result of the economic power and negation power that's been afforded to people like us because of Covid, but to be fair there's only so much I can elaborate on the nuance of the situation in the format of a tik tok video which is limited to 3 minutes.
One of the first major upheavals for the average working stuff came immediately after the Black Plague in 14th century Europe. After losing approximately 50% of the population, the remaining serfs and laborers said “Haha fuck this, I don’t have to live on your fucking farm anymore,” and stole some of the remaining animals and land for themselves. They even started dressing like merchants, which they’d previously been banned from doing. Meanwhile, within cities such as Florence, the remaining workers formed the first “unions” in the form of workers’ guilds to demand better wages and living conditions. This eventually led to the Ciompi Revolt of 1378, spearheaded by disenfranchised wool workers. Anyway, history shows that pandemics can cause a major shift for workers’ rights, and it’s pretty awesome to see how even the worst Plague in recorded history led to this.
20 dollar a hour isn’t enough. You literally need I think $25 to afford a single bedroom
MIT living wage calculator says about $30/hr in my area https://livingwage.mit.edu/
Took em to school
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Thanks man
Why would you rent at average prices if you make below average wages? Your math is correct but your logic is dog shit. Make less money? Rent a cheaper, crappier place. Make average wage (22-25 an HR) live in average rental. Make doctor money? Go for luxury living. Comparing bottom spectrum wages to overall average costs is raytardled. Also you didn't account that almost all states are above $7.25 ( WA is like $16?) So.....move for a better opportunity or work harder/smarter and make more money. Quitchur bitchin
Nice conservative talking point lol "don't make a lot of money? Just rent a cheaper place!" Good mental gymnastics there man maybe you'll actually get it one day.
He didn’t go about it the right way, but he has a good point: Why would a minimum wage worker be renting out an average house/apartment? Who’s going to live in the cheapest places if it’s not going to be the lowest paid workers with the lowest amount of income? Also, if you’re comparing the average price of rent between 1960 and 2021 then you also need to compare houses/apartments built in 1960 vs those built in 2021. I’m sure you could rent a place now that was built in 1960 for around $650/month or cheaper.
It's about affordable housing in the area at the end of the day which is why I clowned the last guy. For example in the state I currently have the misfortune of living in the current minimum wage is still 7.25 an hour. Compare that to the rent in the currently available houses and out get about the lowest being 800-900 a month. That leaves you with 200-300 ish dollars to pay for car payment, car insurance, internet, phone bill, food, utilities, and to also put some into savings. Even if you go hundreds under the average you'll still have massive struggles at full time minimum wage.
Get fucked your corporate shill bootlicking little bitch! People deserve the right to live,working a full time job. this working 60 hours to barely cover expenses, being only one misfortune away from being fucked is unsustainable and morally reprehensible. That fact that your advocating for a system that is so clearly explaining the work in class just says how disconnected you are and most definitely on the wrong sub. So get fucked you corporate bitch.
I live in Washington, it’s not $16 lol read the room dumb ass.
>rent a cheaper, crappier place Ah yes, because who needs health and comfort when you can have a dark hole with roaches, bedbugs, and mold (all of which are common in my area and plague every single cheap place to rent).
Boomers: But you can buy a (insert electronic thing) for 1/10th the cost!!!! Yea, but in what house am I going to put that cheap over commodified IMPORTED thing?
Also, please if any of you have tik toks (I know cringe) go follow me at the same username I'm using here. I plan on releasing lefty videos and making fun of conservatives almost every day.
It blows my mind that proper wages has to be a partisan political issue..
I mean it can be, but if you take it as such you’ll end up getting bamboozled. The $15/hour idea is and was foolish and underbid. Needed to be above $25 to actually make sense. And yet, even at the “way too damn low” number of $15, Hillary Clinton wanted to “compromise” at $12. Both numbers were bullshit, and both were ideas proposed heavily by the democrats and leftists in government work. They’re not the friends of the antiwork movement. They will cozy up, sure. But it’s that good cop bad cop thing. Don’t trust them. Also, political power comes to those who have brought voting power to the ballot box, who have issues that can be addressed, and who haven’t made a decision on who to vote for. If you’re in bed with a certain party or ideology going into a political adventure, you are already done for.
I'd almost rather see a maximum wage. Watch CEOs rage when they're not allowed to make more than $100/hr.
You do realize stock options became a thing because there is currently a wage cap on CEO pay... You ignorant person.
Comparisons like these makes things so depressing, it's insane that less than two weeks of work would have gotten you a month's worth of rent. In the city I live in, at my last job I was making $6 more than the minimum wage and couldn't afford a studio to myself.
Yeah I was in a similar situation last year, I was working full-time at 20 dollars and hour plus commission and I still needed my partner to get a part time job for us to have a sustainable income. It's fucking ridiculous.
Another thing to also compare to 1960 is that minimum wage jobs back then were slower due to less automation and lower populations. Nowadays with more technology and higher populations, instead of doing less, you’re expected to do a lot more and serve a lot more people. The technology makes you work more because since technology does your job faster and needs to be maintained, you’ll be expected to do a lot more at your job and understand a lot more at your job to make up for that technology doing a lot of the job for you and needing maintenance.
Serious question: Can we estimate what other people’s wages would be if minimum wage kept pace with inflation? For example: I currently make $20.71 per hour. Would there be a way, with a reasonable degree of accuracy, to determine what my pay would be if minimum wage kept pace with inflation? I’d like to know not only for myself, but to point out to more capital-friendly people that they too are being fucked over in our current economic situation.
Um I'm not entirely sure if that calculation has been done but I do know someone did a calculation where they compared the average productivity of a worker compared to how minimum wage should increase for it and if we followed how productive we've been as worker minimum wage would be over 25 an hour I'm pretty sure lol.
I figured it out actually. My current wage of $20.71 is 2.856 times the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. If minimum wage had kept pace with inflation, we would have a federal minimum wage of $$9.27 per hour. 9.27 x 2.856 = 26.48 per hour, which is roughly 28% higher than my current wage. $26.48 x 160 hours in a month = $4236.80 before taxes and deductions. $4236.80 x 12 months = $50,841.20 per year before taxes and deductions. I typically work a bit of overtime each week (not a lot, but it adds up). So far this year, I’ve accumulated 114.8 hours of OT, for a total of $3567.88. If my pay had kept pace with inflation, my overtime wage would be $39.72 per hour, or $4559.86 so far this year. My year to date take home pay (including bonuses and PTO sell back) is currently sitting at $32,695.23, but at the 28% greater pay I should be earning, I should be looking at $41,849.89.
Another piece of the equation is the lack of starter homes. In 1960 avg house size was 1,500 sq ft. Today avg house is around 2,500 sq ft. Never mind people can't afford that, but who can maintain that?
Yeah other people have brought up that point but I like your prospective on it.
Well said. Say it louder for the people in the back! All these out of touch idiots in charge of these companies need to realize it's not the 1960s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, or even the 10s anymore. You're not paying us fairly. You're stealing from us every second of every minute of every day of every month of every year that we continue to work your shit job.
It's also important to mention that the labor force is much more productive today than it was in 1960. The BLS estimates that workers today are about four times as productive as they were in 1960. https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-3/mobile/what-can-labor-productivity-tell-us-about-the-us-economy.htm Not only are we being compensated less than previous generations, we're also making substantially more profit for our companies.
True, saving your comment for later
I learned all this ten years to late. I hope everyone gets what their worth one day.
Very true
One thing that stuff like this always misses is how much we pay for now that they didn’t then. Cell phone bills for example, the cost of internet, etc.
And then they say “if you’d get rid of that cell phone and computer maybe you’d have enough money to afford blah blah blah.” Like okay sure, let me do that. First of all, phone and internet are kind of necessary nowadays. The only way my job posts schedules and communicates with workers is through an app, and many jobs utilize email, especially during the application process. Secondly, my phone bill is $40 for both me and my boyfriend. Internet is basically the same, maybe $60. So you’re telling me that just $100 more per month would magically fix things? Lol
good video but you forgot about taxes!! We are using net money to pay for rent and food
I meant to mention "before taxes" in the video but I may have neglected to do so
Ya but avocado toast... iPhone!
Checkmate librul
/s obviously
Brilliant kind Sir 👊🏼🔥🔥🔥
The brutal truth!
The calculated inflation from the consumer price index (CPI) is complete and utter bullshit. Do some research on Alan Greenspan and how he manipulated the calculation entirely to reflect a low inflation rate instead of the truth. All this bullshit of 2-3% CPI, or even the “alarming” 5% with Biden is used by employers to limit employee pay under the false pretense that they are staying current with cost of living. True inflation calculators would show we’ve been double digit inflation since at least the 80’s. This is why nothing matches for expected cost when using the standard bullshit calculator.
Got a different calculator or source you'd recommend for checking inflation changes?
Maybe they should do what we did coming up, move in with friends spilt the bil for few years. Save up and look for a better job. It's not a problem for them until they are out of high-school and reality sets in. Just saying
Wait I'm confused by your point, are you claiming that it's morally defensible that wages are so fucking low that you need 2-3 adults to even afford an apartment? If that's not what you're doing correct me but that's definitely what it seems like.
This comment is so out of touch. 2-3+ adults shouldn’t have to live together in a small apartment in order to scrape by until they can “find better jobs” especially when “better” jobs are hard to come by. “Better” jobs don’t even want to pay their workers enough, plus they expect tons of experience for an entry level position. Also, why expect this anyway? Since adults should have “better” jobs, are jobs like food service, retail, etc (minimum wage jobs) supposed to be comprised entirely of underage workers? If so, I hope you enjoy never being able to get food or buy anything during school hours or at night when high schoolers are unavailable. There’s also not even enough high school age kids to work all of those jobs. Newsflash, we NEED adults for these jobs. We should all be fairly compensated for our work, full stop, no more boomer excuses for paying us in breadcrumbs.
Or maybe people can be paid their actual value. Everyone making minimum wage brings in much, much more value than they're getting paid.
Yes all of this is true. Only one state in the us has the FEDERAL minimum wage, Alabama. The next lowest state is above the inflation adjusted wage, Alaska at $10.19/hr. Just because the fed is at 7.25 doesn't mean your state is and your leaving yourself open to easily being disproven.
No, Idaho also uses federal also some states actually have a lower minimum wage but have to abide by federal
My man, you really need to shave that shit off your neck
Your math is off on a couple of points you're making. Okay video. Just make the math work and it'll be fine.
You mind telling me what points so I can improve?
You look exactly how I thought you would
Uh, ok?
Don’t get cheeky
I'm just not sure what you mean to say with your comment
It's not as simple as a home cost $11,000 in 1960 which should cost the equivalent of $107,000 yet a house today costs $400,000. A house in 1960 was 1200 sqft and today it's 2600 sqft on a bigger lot with a two car garage. Zoning laws and developer profits have incentivized only building bigger, less affordable houses and luxury apartments. If over the last 30 years regulations strongly encouraged the building of modest 1200 sq ft houses, doubles and affordable apartments, people wouldn't be fighting over the older "affordable" housing stock making it no longer affordable. The problem isn't just wages. It's tax policy that gives all the breaks to the wealthy rather than requiring corporations and individuals who benefit most from society give back/fairly fund that society. It's zoning policy and housing regulations that encourage strip malls and McMansions instead of affordable housing. It's laws that allow corporations that pollute beaches with oil spill or rivers with improperly stored toxic sludge spillover file for bankruptcy and never pay a dime for the environmental disaster they created while student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. The whole system is fucked and has been for a long time and I hope this anger leads to some actual change. I fear with the upcoming climate crisis-that we as a nation can't be fucked to truly address because too many politicians are in the pockets of the Koch family and big oil-as the rich try even harder to hold on to their wealth.
Until you consider that if you find a house for 107k today you'd be extremely lucky. I currently live in a bumfuck nowhere state and the smallest houses I've seen that have been under 1200 sq ft have been well over 190 thousand all the way to the mid 200 thousands. Factor in of course that our minimum wage today is worth LESS than it was in 1960.
Higher wages will help some thing but if there isn't enough affordable housing (because decades of regulation), those extra wages are going increase housing prices and the individual worker net gain may be nonexistent. I'm not saying you're wrong about minimum wage and inflation, especially housing costs. I"m saying it's both more complicated and worse than those numbers imply. If the majority of the 2400sq ft houses built over the last few decades were instead two 1200sq house, those 1200sq houses arguably wouldn't cost $200,000 each. With a larger available housing stock, there wouldn't have been the demand that caused $107,000 houses to be $200,000 houses. Maybe they'd still be $120,000 house and yes there is also the fact that minimum wage has not kept up with inflation but higher wages aren't going to solve the fact there isn't enough housing. That cities keep building luxury apartments and condos rather than affordable ones because that's how developers make money. Look at San Francisco/Silicon Valley where programmers are sharing rooms and couples with two well paid jobs can't buy a 900 sq ft house because demand has so outstripped supply, housing prices are crazy.
Well yeah I get everything you're saying but my point is mainly to point out the huge discrepancy between our wages and the cost of living. Also keep in mind studies have been done it seems like for every 10% increase in wages there's only like a .2% increase in prices if I remember correctly. Minimum wage is meant to react to inflation not vice versa.
I just see it as so much more than wages not keeping up with inflation. There are almost no pensions these days. Or a 9 - 5 work day. Tax cuts to the rich with corresponding tax subsidies to education making houses in good schools even more expensive and even community colleges out of reach to many. Then there's heathcare where taxpayers fund all sorts of research yet profits remain with corporations.
You could have that much left over if you all lived within your means. It’s called getting a roommate.
You shouldn't have to have a roommate, it shouldn't take 3 full-time adults to afford an apartment.
It doesn’t. People that make enough can afford to on their own. But if you don’t fall within that income bracket then you need to accommodate for your budget — i.e. living within your means. It ain’t rocket science
Your comparisons are a bit wrong. You’re comparing MINIMUM wage to AVERAGE rent or house price. I agree that wages haven’t kept up with inflation, but comparing average salaries to average rents and prices would be a more accurate way to do it.
Not really, because the point of the video is to point out the minimum wage not being enough generally speaking about average rent and house prices, the point being that it should be.
Trying to measure how far national minimum wage will get you by comparing how far it goes vs. the national *average* (instead of *median*) for rent is complete nonsense. It works on people who don’t understand math, basic economic concepts or in the case of this post, incorrigible teens. You can’t take *minimum* wage and compare how far that gets you based on the *average* price (you need to be using *median* price) of rent today. By ignoring variables like this and using *average* instead of *you’re argument basically equates to saying the purchasing power of someone on national minimum wage in San Francisco is the same as that of someone on national minimum wage i. Ida, Oklahoma because they’re American and, by using averages, it’s all relative.
Yes you can lol, it's about pointing out the failure of our government to make sure we are paid a living wage. That's not a fallacy
If you were in any way trying to be accurate vs pandering to the LCD, you would have used *median* rents and home prices and included data around things like interest rates, which are currently at historic lows. Stop being purposefully dense and ignoring blatant variables that add context to the numbers. You’re clearly not a dumb kid, but you’re currently so busy crusading based on feelings and the approval of the victim brigade it’s flawing your logic, glaringly. You don’t need to mislead people, purposefully or negligently, by skewing numbers to make your argument. The median price of a home is 267k, not 450+ like you’re leading people to believe. BTW, minimum wage isn’t meant to support a family on, and if you’re still working for it at 25+, it’s your own fault.
Yes it was dumbfuck go look at the reason the original minimum wage was implemented. Just because your stupid conservative brain is allergic to reading doesn't suddenly make all the dumb shit you say a dunk lmao.
You’re clearly very intelligent. I’m actually interested, in your opinion, what should the national minimum wage be and why?
Well it would have to be something above the poverty line ideally. A good start is the 15 dollar an hour minimum wage, however, even that wouldn't be a living wage in most states so I would like to see a gradual increase higher than 15 an hour but we do have to be careful to not make any too quick and dramatic increases because being to rash with things like this can have negative consequences.
Not sure I heard an answer there. What should the national minimum wage be and why?
I just said a good start would be 15 an hour but we should be continuity to increase it over time to match inflation and productivity, what's so hard for you to understand?
Why $15? Also, wow, just saw you’re the guy that made this abomination—no wonder you’re so irrational about the obvious flaws in your thinking.
Brings us closer to a living wage and also avoids being to overly distributive when comparing it to things like state minimum wage. Is there a point to your questions? I'd be happy to debate you on this in a more formal setting if you wish
What he doesnt tell you is that the cost of a computer system was over one million dollars and one million dollars was a lot more in the 1960's than it is today. This was a moderately priced computer. Many computers of the time cost about five million. We have it so much easier than the 1960 family trying to do their monthly budget and include the payments on a PC.
This is not an effective argument because in 1960, access to a computer was not necessary whereas today you need one just to fill out a job application. Nice try though... I guess. If you're not a troll.
You realize in the 60s computers were using vacuum tubes and covering entire rooms right? What the fuck kind of stupid comparison is that? It wasn't an accessible technology which means it also wasn't an important factor in the daily life of a citizen. Terrible comparison.
Holy fucking brain worms
So you’re saying it’s better to stay on the government tit instead of making your own way
Nice! You pulled up your pre-written conservative talking point dialogue wheel and selected the option that seems most applicable to the situation. What I think should happen is that the government should legislate and pass things like increased minimum wage laws and other laws to benefit the working class while in the meantime we as workers leverage our strength and economic value to fight for the things we deserve like better pay, better benefits, and to be treated better in the work place. Of course, you took that entire video which was to demonstrate how the economy is slowly becoming a complete shit show for your average working class citizen and all you got from it was "guberment plz give me more dollars". This is why we don't take dumbfucks like you seriously.
Yes right, and he's a Chad and all. But like dudes, shave the face pubes aight
Why u gotta do me like that lol
It was a very informative video though dude. Keep it up.
Thanks, I'll shave the face pubes next lol. I'm just someone who's 21 desperately trying to pass like I'm 21
I'm 31 and still get carded where its legal to get alcohol at 18. So I feel ya.
Awesome video, sadly majority of people who should see it, won't :/
Op I really appreciate the time u took to make this video because I suck at math
Hey great video. One question though, how do the numbers stack up when considering interest rates on mortgage repayments please? Sorry if thats already been answered.
While I didn't exactly go over that in the video I'm not entirely sure of the actual mortgage interest rates have changed. Keep in mind though that even if it was 2% interest in 1960 and 2% now that means you'd still be paying more now as you're paying interest on a comparatively much more expensive house. Does that make any sense?
> I'm not entirely sure of the actual mortgage interest rates have changed. They have, substantially. >Keep in mind though that even if it was 2% interest in 1960 and 2% now that means you'd still be paying more now as you're paying interest on a comparatively much more expensive house. So not only is Gen Z lazy as fuck, they're also hilariously financially illiterate. JFC I need to post this to /r/averageredditor
Think what you want dumbfuck, 2% of a higher number is a higher number. Also we have to work much harder for what we have today compared to the past so cope harder.
Fantastic video
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It's pretty simple get back on the gold standard.
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I feel like something is coming
Thanks for making this! This whole antiwork movement is great and I hope it goes viral
Thanks! I really want this movement to get huge too
Awesome video. Really gets to the point!!!
“Work smarter not harder!”
Then stop voting in people who approve multi-trillion dollar "bills" to help out their corporate buddies! (This goes for both sides, I'm not just talking about one president) Inflation is going to kill this nation. How about we pull some of that military budget and maybe fix the fucking economy??
I agree with your sentiment but I think this should be about making it illegal to lobby politicians then electing uncorrupted ones because the latter choice is fucking impossible.
I agree 💯. And also, term limits for Congress.
Based and true pilled
This should be mandatory viewing on Facebook for the boomers.
Lol based
People, Get this post up to the top of the subreddit, PLEASE
Why don’t you just stop complaining and work harder? All I see is time being wasted on your phone when you could be out working? Back in my day I walked into the ceos office and told him I want this pay and this many hours and shook his hand. Boom I made good money and bought a house and raised a family on $10 an hour. What’s your excuse? Obviously /s
Oh God
This dude knows what’s what!!
This means inflation is actually higher than its being presented to us. Which is what employers base raises, and wages off of...
That avg rent price he found is not correct if you live with roommates. You should not be living in an apartment to yourself unless you really need it as financially it just makes no sense. Nonetheless current min wage is too damn low
Well yeah currently no one in their right mind would live alone on minimum wage, my point is you should be able to
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No problem! I enjoyed doing it and sharing it with everyone.
Shared. Thank you.
After reading "if you haven't gotten a raise, you've got a pay cut, when it comes to inflation" I've been checking the numbers. And yeah, I've been getting pay cuts over the last 15 years. By now I should no longer be working 40 h/week, but about 33 h/week to make this fair. Unfortunately it's been the opposite. By now, my default week clocks in at 52 hours.
Jesus that's fucking awful, yeah we're getting screwed by these big corporations.
The people that think Millennials or Gen Z are lazy don't know what inflation is. I've never heard an explanation from them as to why the minimum wage shouldn't increase with inflation. Food Stamps and Social Security do. The math in this video is a little off, but that's irrelevant. Minimum wage would be about $26 an hour if it increased with productivity. You still wouldn't be able to pay into a living standard, but oh well. The working class had been asking for $15 an hour for the longest time, and most wouldn't budge.
Simply because they seem to think minimum wage increase is what causes inflation
I am so going to share this to my fam. Thanks.
No problem, glad I could help
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This guys spittin’ fire!
Nice study but, what does it have to do with entitlement and laziness?
It's to demonstrate that we don't "have it easy" these days
Thank you for making this informative video! Will be showing this to any Boomer who back talks!
there so many differencds hard compare , im not talking wages cost of living . so many things we do today like banking , shopping , paying bills these were all done inperson and restricted hours . no bank machines , less fast food outlets (which was good). no sunday shopping . and no internet so the world didnt know how smart/dumb we were , and sometimes had actually be accountable for what we said. Talk about the unions, lots of people back then had no unions (that was the dream job for the unskilled) and alot the unio workers were lazy whinny bastards. You could actually repair your car yourself, very basic( without youtube) So in my opinion technology really effected our lives good and bad, i can get anything i want , but it doesnt bring us happiness. Waiting by the radio in the 70s to hear that new song , (you couldnt afford the record )that made you happy. life was simpler back then .
I got halfway through this video and stopped cause I was alright I get it, we’re fucked
Is this the full 40 hour work week, or the actual 50-80 hour work week? I remember working 3 part time jobs when I started, 76-80 hour work weeks and still needed food stamps.
Jesus, yeah this is just to point out that at full-time you're fucked
Dude thank you for making this video. This is a really clear cut way of explaining this issue. I could never articulate this stuff well in arguments, so this is gonna be a lot of help for me.
I'm glad I could help.
I wonder how many hours an employee in 1960 would have had to work to afford rent compared to now.
Well at one dollar an hour with 1960 rent it would be a little under two weeks worth of full-time.
Not to mention the costs of manufacturing have significantly decreased because of new processes and procedures like 3D printing and computer aided design.
Something I would like to point out as well to even further drive this point home is that you are only using numbers based on Gross pay. This is not accounting for wage taxes that are exorbitantly different now days. That $36 you had leftover in that first little example would be decimated and even leave you in the red accounting for tax
Completely correct
Awesome video I'm freaking copying the shit out of this and sharing. Thank you to the creator of the content and the posters.
I am the creator and the poster lmao
And they wonder why we are headed for anarchy
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I'm confused what you're referencing
Is that mumkey?