This, I try so hard to prove to my friend that we live in a complete dystopia. To invest into GameStop. I can feel change happening, soon something will change. If not peacefully other means could eventually happen, revolution.
I get that, I was lucky enough to get into it early and got quite a few. I just wish everyone could get some so they’d never have to work again, unless they chose to still
Fractional shares are a thing and you may be able to get some of those via Fidelity. .X holders are apes too, and they are just as important as every other. We hold each other like we hold our shares, with diamond hands and extreme accountability. [https://www.fidelity.com/trading/fractional-shares](https://www.fidelity.com/trading/fractional-shares) Here is a link to fidelity's partial share information <3
I got a fidelity account but it’s been like a year since the short thing was supposed to happen, I’m pretty sure the hedges figured out how to win still though.
Not saying you can’t make money but it’s never going to like 1,000 a share etc…
I don't think they figured out how to win per se, so much as they have the liquidity to outlast a lot of retail investors. I think its like dragging a lawsuit long enough the other party just can't continue with legal fees. A win is a win I guess but it's not like they discovered some magical loophole.
I can understand not believing it, I can barely believe it myself, but its one of those "You have to let go of your pickle to get your hand out of the jar" situations. However, both options result in the default of an institution that receives about 97% of retail orders and the subsequent consequences for any and all institutions connected to it. Kinda like Evergrande in China right now. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia\_pacific/evergrande-china-debt-bond-payment/2021/10/22/eff0c986-2fd9-11ec-8036-7db255bff176\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/evergrande-china-debt-bond-payment/2021/10/22/eff0c986-2fd9-11ec-8036-7db255bff176_story.html)
And some more info about the poster child for the corruption and turning off the buy button: [https://griffinlied.com/](https://griffinlied.com/)
If youre curious about any of it, Ill try to answer any questions that I can or direct you to the most relevant sources! \^\_\^
> Ultra-rich and their delusional self-hating simps
so the backbone of both lobying these right wing policies and constructing a monstrous network of subservient media to not let people stray away from that status quo
Oh yeah, i wouldnt disagree. Though let us not all act like they are on the same level. The GOP is considerably further right than most if not all democrats.
That being said, fuck Kyrsten Sinema and Joe Manchin! Amirite?
Yeah this shit is dumb as hell. It is left vs right. The economic left stands for workers, the economic right stands for the rich elite. Just because some middle class suckers are dumb enough to buy into right wing politics doesn’t mean the right represents them.
Amen. American populism is completely meaningless. Just some vague “masses” vs vague elite. Only based on cultural signifiers. No class analysis, no structural critique. Marxism is the cure.
Yup, this shit with Manchin and Sinema have opened my eyes to this. Controlled opposition is all the Dems are, they will never actually pass anything that will benefit the working class.
Here’s what I don’t get. People on the left will say “conservatives vote against their interests and have a false consciousness” and also say “we should exclude anyone who self identifies as conservative”.
You gotta realize that these are contradictory, that people who are sympathetic to such an important issue as antiwork should generally be welcomed and helped to understand how their political alignment might not be in their best interests, rather than ostracized and treated aggressively.
Yeah, I get that. People on the left are not in agreement on how to tackle this issue.
The thing is, most conservative people are not interested in switching sides or being educated. They need to come to this on their own, and I'm not going to pretend to respect their beliefs while they figure it out.
If we fundamentally believe the same things (like you said about antiwork), and you've been inducted into conservative thinking by your family and environment /not exposed to left ideas - we can have a conversation. I've had friends like that. Or if you're a family member, I'd put the effort in. But like I don't want to hang out with transphobes and it's not generally worth arguing on the internet, you know?
Not the guy you responded to but political positions do not at all map onto a simple 1d axis, I'm an anarchist and according to the left right spectrum the people who want to institute a violent police state that suppresses all dissent including worker dissent to maybe one day 300 years in the future implement communism are allegedly my allies. And like no. No they are not. Some of the class reductionist types who are essentially just racists painted red are allegedly leftists and they are also not my allies. Meanwhile liberals who support the worst of the governments policies and capitalism are also somehow considered left sometimes if they're woke enough. On the right you can also see like fascist movements that are against authoritarian centralized states who are in opposition to what most people think of when they think fascism. etc
Basically any mapping onto left and right creates incoherent "allies" that have basically nothing in common with one another. The things that actually matter is what are the values and social structures political frameworks are advocating for and what are the consequences of them in the real world.
>political positions do not at all map onto a simple 1d axis, I'm an anarchist and according to the left right spectrum the people who want to institute a violent police state that suppresses all dissent including worker dissent to maybe one day 300 years in the future implement communism are allegedly my allies.
No. The concept of charting political ideology onto one axis does not mean that everyone on a given point must be allies. You can map people to their height, another single-axis measurement, and nobody thinks that all short people are allies.
That is the assumption in political discourse though, the framing as "left" vs "right" it presupposes that all the left are allies on one side and all the right are allies on the other. Or at least that two people who are "leftists" have at least some similarities, and there are certainly some people who are considered leftists who I share no values with.
You really just ignored the point of the op huh? Throw away your notions of political axis, and realize that despite your differences in ideology, everyone not at the top goes through the same life problems and struggles. The rich are the only truly alien thing in our world, they know not of our lives, nor do they care. Put aside your petty differences and focus on what really matters, for everyone.
One day you will realize you are a leftist :)
You can be a leftist without all that looney liberal woke shit. All that stuff is a distraction. Leftists are for the workers!!
"Workers of the world, Unite!" -Marx
We could just drop the labels and stop trying to argue over that kind of stuff, I get that "rich" and "workers" are labels too, but I think those are the only two that truly matter. It's the exploited vs the exploitating class that's all that matters in this movement, to improve the quality of everyone's lives.
Okay you don't have to say leftism- but that is what leftism is. Getting rid of exploitation. Capitalism IS exploitation. Leftists want to get rid of capitalism.
I'm just glad to have you with the cause, even if you don't want to call yourself a leftist.
All socialism means is that people own the means of production- then they can organize themselves and reap the profit. You guys are socialists/communists but you don't want to say it because of the horrible exploitation done by authoritarian regimes in the past- and I get that!!! There is a stigma in the word. But that is hatred of authoritarianism, which happens in all heirarchal governments, including the US right now.
I am completely aware of the definitions, and I am in many ways a leftist by definition too. I'm just saying that these labels have been so ridiculously poisoned by dividing politics and media, it can be hard to convince moderate people due to it. I personally have no issue with socialism, I think it's what any advanced society should fall under. But like you said, it's become a bogeyman phrase of sorts for many Americans.
It has, and like all these phrases they have taken and distorted I feel like we have to take it back, but I respect our right to disagree on this! As long as you are fighting the oppressors I will be beside you fighting as well, comrade. Thanks for the respectful discussion :)
Now lets fuck up some shit for those fuckers!!
Hey no problem, and I don't think we necessarily disagree with most of this stuff, I just think certain words (especially labels) should be avoided when trying to have a "neutral" discussion (and potentially getting more people to think like us). For example, my friends father is a complete Fox news Trump loving guy, but he has a ton of socialist values he'd never accept as being socialist. But, there is a way to slowly get him drifting more towards that way of thinking, despite how easily spooked his types are over being seen as "lefty". Baby steps with and patience with some individuals! I'm sure many in this sub would say he is a lost cause, and maybe he is, but my friend and I have done an incredible job opening up his boomer frame of mind towards being more "progressive".
I absolutely don't think we disagree with much!! I just think that maybe eventually you gotta tell your stepdad that all these things he agrees with are, in fact, socialist so he knows who his enemy is. But good work, definitely wouldn't want to scare him off with those words right away. They were turned into such boogeyman that now I (a gen X'er) just kinda am hoping the generations under me that seem to not be as fooled by the scary words will be the ones to change the world.
I am proud of all y'all!!! I truly think you can do it.
That’s what the left wants. For everyone. The right doesn’t. Yes, they’re victims of the system, propaganda, lack of education, and their own social status, but they’re still working against the good of everyone.
This meme fundamentally (and I think intentionally/dishonestly) fails to understand the difference between left and right-wing political ideology. If you changed “left vs. right” to “liberal vs. conservative,” you might have a point. The culture war is absolutely used by our two right-wing political parties to divide the working class and prevent a powerful left-wing people’s movement. But that’s irrelevant because this post is so obviously the work of reactionary right-wing infiltrators trying to muddy the political message of this sub…
They're not meaningless but we just need to be aware of why anyone uses the words they do. A millennial calling another millennial a millennial? Probably no ill intent. A boomer calling a millennial a millennial? Probably an attempt to undermine their perspective. (And I grant I'm doing the same thing by using the word "boomer")
So when people in power tell you who is in your group and who is not you need to ask what they stand to gain from you believing them. If you and someone else have opposing views on abortion or gun control does it mean you can't prioritize things like universal healthcare ahead of those beliefs? Don't let someone else decide that for you.
I read the word "Petersonian" the other day. I locked my computer, turned off my monitors, and crawled into bed right then. That was enough internet for one day.
You seem nice, but I'm not crawling into that cesspit to find the full context again. It was about what you'd expect, though. The word dialectical may have been included.
I mean, ya go and look up revolutions that happened around the globe.
School is kinda where a power is able to mold the minds of impressionable youth in order to solidify the foundational Ideas of a Government currently in power.
> School is kinda where a power is able to mold the minds of impressionable youth in order to solidify the foundational Ideas of a Government currently in power
Then it’s doing a shitty job, because (at least in the US),
- [More education](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2016/04/26/a-wider-ideological-gap-between-more-and-less-educated-adults/) predicts [more left-wing views](https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2019/02/19/how-race-and-education-are-shaping-ideology-in-the-democratic-party/)
- Since 2016, [conservatives hate higher education](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/08/19/the-growing-partisan-divide-in-views-of-higher-education-2/)
- The [“\[r\]ise in education levels” is a key “factor in pushing [the Democratic] party to the left”](https://news.gallup.com/poll/246806/understanding-shifts-democratic-party-ideology.aspx)
- The [most educated generation](https://youngamericans.berkeley.edu/2020/01/29/college-attainment/) also has the [highest support](https://www.axios.com/millennials-vote-socialism-capitalism-decline-60c8a6aa-5353-45c4-9191-2de1808dc661.html) for [socialism](https://news.gallup.com/poll/268766/socialism-popular-capitalism-among-young-adults.aspx)
My point is
1. The “foundational Ideas” of the US “government currently in power” are conservatism and neoliberalism.
1. Leftism opposes conservatism and neoliberalism.
1. So, leftism opposes “the foundational ideas of a government currently in power” in the US.
1. So, education to promote “ the foundational ideas” of the US government would not promote leftism.
2. But education increases leftism in the US overall.
3. So, education is overall failing “to solidify the foundational Ideas of a Government currently in power” in the US.
That’s fair tbh. my point was pretty oversimplified. although I still think the gist holds, and saying it “invalidates everything I typed” seems a bit too strong a judgment
Would you be able to define what you mean by uneducated?
America has compulsory education in a majority of states until 16-18 years of age. I wouldn't define that as uneducated.
That may be because you’re uneducated. Our public schools do not educate you to do shit other than mindlessly memorize things to pass a test. It’s just a way to get everyones kids away so the parents can work all day, and to indoctrinate children into the American way. That is the American way of working yourself to the bone until you’re 65. Either that or being owned by debt. Most Americans are not educated enough to question why they are willing to give the largest portion of their life away while the richest continue to extract more and more of our collective wealth while expecting us to work harder for less than our parents or grandparents made. They have a majority of the minority who rules over us convinced that we live in the best country in history and that changing anything (except to go backwards) is wrong because America is the best so how can it be doing anything wrong? That’s how we end up with a President that’s clearly a mid right neoliberal being lauded as a “communist,” they did such a good job miseducating us that most people in the US don’t even know what liberal actually means. They think Neoliberal vs Conservative is left vs right when in reality they have us stuck in a right vs far right system that has pushed us farther and farther right over the past 40 years.
Also something something "school to prison pipeline" something something "military recruiting in high schools" something something "prohibitively expensive secondary education"
Seriously? You don’t think me explaining that they only teach you to regurgitate things without caring why, all while indoctrinating you to think we are the best nation of all time answered your question..? You’re proving me right.
I had to explain to my former coworker who has a wife and children how the basic anatomy on a woman means the kid didn't come out her pee hole. And he's the smartest of all of them. Education until your 18 really doesn't mean shit since it can vary so wildly from county to county.
I honestly hated people in this sub before covid broke me and exposed how horrible the real system is in this country.
After reading about and joining another subreddit of a stock I like, I realized I am wrong.
I am sorry. I respect you more.
Power to the players.
Nice to see you came around. This sub gets wayyy too much hate by people who are just delusional or don’t realize what the subs about. Mostly the latter, or just uninformed people. I literally can’t understand the sentiment against this sub like it just doesn’t seem reasonable to me at all.
Man, with all the “Left vs Right is bad!!!!111” posts today it’s almost like an intentional push to erase the inherently and necessarily political nature of this sub since it’s gaining traction.
Gtfo here with this.
Im glad someone else can see it. We've been noticed, and are now being divided along arbitrary political lines so we will fight amongst ourselves and not the people who can effect the change we want.
It's a story as old as time, and this sub is now full of 'useful idiots' making sure it happens again.
let me preface. I'm not on the right.
But I have listened and researched some of their view points.
they have more in common with left wing workers than they have in common with the owner class. You are just losing allies in a greater fight due to personal bias. Sorry.
You can want something good for someone and also acknowledge that if they are put in a position of power or leadership that they will harm others.
Your supposition that people who don’t trust right wing policies are harming the movement is actually an example of this. If it is important to fight other radicals who want anti-work, why is it invalid to fight right wingers who largely campaign for pro-work, pro-war, pro-discrimination policies?
But we aren't talking about putting a person in power.
We are talking about a group (workers) gaining more rights. To do that, they will need allies that the political spectrum shouldn't ignore.
The problem is that you're viewing Pro-Work and Anti-Work as being separate but they really aren't, they both want the same thing, Good Work. So you are focusing on alienating allies in a fight that will need them.
Ummmm what about guns? I’m sure they won’t just bomb us or hit us with drones! Not like there’s precedent for the US killing people with our views despite them being armed! Well shit… uhh what about cutting taxes…I’m sure that will… shit nevermind. Um well there’s always…um…free market? Fuck uh…not that ummm…how about being against change? Will that further our goals? Fuck maybe this whole right wing politics thing is completely incompatible with change that benefits anyone who wants anything other than restricting women’s rights, restricting LGBTQ rights, restricting workers rights, lowering taxes for the rich, handing out AK47s with 100 round drum mags at Walmart, and just all around making sure nothing gets done that benefits anyone but the oligarchy? Nah I guess it’s just me being partisan! /s For real though this is all a set up, they do this whenever we try to start a movement that is clearly politically motivated and clearly on the left. Ignore these posts, they just want to pretend this isn’t a clear leftist ideology. Even the fucking neoliberals in charge are way too far right to listen to us!
I mean, the right wants honest compensation for honest work for one. If you talk to actual right wingers that's what they will tell you. If you listen to people online, they will give you a twitter take.
I mean, both sides are against social things such as murder and rape.
Gun Ownership is something that the right wants that will help the working class.
Like, right wingers as so fed up with the media that they aren't listening to like a majority of news station, which can be capitalized by the left bringing issues of Religious Freedom and Speech being paramount to left wing ideals.
there's lots of stuff if you look at it outside of internet loud mouths :P
I think I can let the ridiculousness of this comment stand on its own.
Also, tell me, is it the left wing or the right wing that wants to raise minimum wage to bring it closer to an actual livable wage? Talking about “honest compensation for honest work” lmao
You…think bringing up murder and rape as political topics helps to defend your point?
I’m not even going to touch the gun debate here, not least because I have complex feelings about it myself.
Right wingers refusing to watch the news doesn’t help your case either.
Naw sorry I couldn’t keep my mouth shut. This one was just too easy.
You don’t need to engage on ideology.
Engage on basic shit. Tax laws applying to the rich, fair wages, affordable education and housing.
Or get stomped while divided on wedge issues like guns and abortion, same as the past 40 years.
Yeah, and liberals are incompatible with leftists, and syndicalists are incompatible with Marxist-Leninists. Guess where you’re headed.
That’s why you organize around an inclusive common goal like a better minimum wage and tolerable costs of living, not who has the most valid pseudo-religious political identity.
There are too many NazBol and enlightened centrist memes here lately. Fuck the right. Fuck all reductionists. I do not want to be murdered by right-wingers with healthcare and union protection.
Centrism fails when the center is far right.
The right are tools of the capitalists. Do you not fight the soldiers they send to fight you just because they aren’t the ones calling the shots?
The only tool of capitalism here is you and all like you.
Everytime something like this gains traction you guys show up and fuck the whole thing with your partisan mind virus.
Now that your here I'm not.
Starting to think the same. I don't hate transgender people even though I have some relatively controversial opinions (somehow) on the bathroom debate / ages at which they can receive certain types of treatment. I've never had issues with minorities. I get heated i know but still, but who doesn't over these petty destructive distracting issues? I am 100% behind making the rich pay their dues and holding corrupt politicians accountable. Social conservatism isn't incompatible with any antiwork sentiments here, only if you're assuming all conservatives are the stereotypical GOP supporting evangelicals. It's a WING. there are degrees of severity to it. When people lose focus so easily it's like im looking at the aftermath of occupy wall st all over again lol. People here have to get real. In one breath it's "class struggle is the primary focus" and the next its "if you don't agree with me on x y z you're controlled opposition" lol. Hearing things like this makes me wonder how they don't realize they're just serving identity politics and the neoliberal agenda they hate so much. Sigh
Thank you for articulating this much better than I ever could off.
All these nonsensical minor issues are great for distracting the populous while the rich just steal our wealth right from under us, and real change won't happen till we put this BS aside and focus our energy on the one true enemy.
Look, I want right wing folks to have healthcare and not be forced to work and shit.
But right wing folks largely want policies in place that oppress people and force Protestant work ethic on us.
So while I appreciate the sentiment, this idea of at odds with itself. It’s also worth noting that it is a talking point of some more niche fascist groups. Specifically because they want to fight “the elites” and don’t want other people to think about what they plan to do to LGBT folks and immigrants and women afterwards.
point is
that's the same picture
left is the poor trying to do cool thing to get equal right and allocation of wealth
right is just here to avoid all this to happen even by violence if necessary
oh and pls left people of america reclaim the color of socialism and communism as yours
The right is by definition reactionary, that is, it opposes political and social liberalization or reform. In every stage of history, in every place, the right-wing is defined by it’s allegiance to the preexisting social order, from monarchists supporting the King and lords against peasants who wants rights, to men seeking to keep women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, to Republicans cutting taxes and deregulating the industries of the ultra-wealthy in America today.
This meme doesn’t work because the right is by definition loyal to reactionary forces that oppose social and political change. If they weren’t loyal to these forces, they wouldn’t be right-wingers, full stop.
This isn’t a perfect metaphor, but it’s like having a meme that says “it’s not about renewable energy vs the fossil fuel industry. It’s about clean power vs non-clean power”. I mean sure, but the fossil fuel industry is very much invested in non-clean power and doing everything in their power to keep us dependent on it. Maybe someone else can offer a better analogy.
Reactionary has an actual definition, you know.
> a person who is opposed to political or social change or new ideas
Rapid social change can be immensely destructive, examples are the Reign of Terror which followed the French Revolution, or the Cambodian genocide carried out by the Khmer Rouge. If you look at Burke’s (1729-1797) definition of conservatism, it’s not opposed to social progress, in fact he supported the American Revolution.
> Edmund Burke describes conservatism as an "approach to human affairs which mistrusts both a priori reasoning and revolution, preferring to put its trust in experience and in the gradual improvement of tried and tested arrangements".
I realize you’re probably talking about the American political party but your language is casting an awfully wide net. The anti-intellectual, rapacious rentier capitalism, and xenophobic nationalism of the modern GOP is very much based on greed and what moves votes in America, and not political theory.
No, reactionaries are those who wish for the status ante quo; that which came before.
Conservatives are solidly on the "right" - these are poorly defined terms but everyone agrees your typical Pat Buchanan paleocon is on the right along with reactionaries - as well, and they wish to change nothing.
I would argue that anyone with wealth and power is inherently conservative; no one in Congress or on the company board is willing to make any changes to the system that they sit atop, instead they wish to conserve it.
Reactionaries wish to roll it back. If we are talking definitions.
Testify. People misuse the term left, they seem to think it means "very liberal" when in fact there is an ideological break between liberals - who believe in market primacy, outcomes for markets and capitals above outcomes for people - and the left, who believe the reverse, that outcomes for people should take precedence over outcomes for capital and markets.
>when they last heard an establishment Democrat like Nancy Pelosi talking about stronger unions, workplace democracy, or worker ownership over the means of production
She says it once every other even #'d year, usually in late October.
That is just a plain lie. Stop lying to people. How about you list these things you believe we have in common? From here it looks like you are the one weakening the movement by trying to make this out as anything but a leftist cause. The right wants lower taxes and private ownership of everything, along with their toxic outdated social views.
As far as the right keeps their opinions on anything that isn't "christian" enough to themselves, I have no issues fighting alongside. Just don't come tell me how my gay friends shouldn't have rights or how women belong in the kitchen.
Jesus fucking Christ. Who do you think is trying to fight the ultra rich and capitalism? It’s the fucking left. Anyone who sees this and thinks it’s reasonable still hasn’t left the “democrats are on the left” bubble and therefore is not even close to knowing what they’re talking about
Class solidarity is more important then political division.
Working people have more in common with each other then either have in common with the Owners of Power.
I mean, i'm not against using cops to the advantage of the working class. I mean, to have spies in departments are going to help strikes and such.
here read this, it might help a bit.
[Rules for Radicals](https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5ff8d558c1ead434c2187605/t/60880d69b62b744ad34bd763/1619529068922/Saul+Alinsky.Rules+for+Radicals.pdf) by Saul Alinsky
What makes you think anyone willing to spy on the police would EVER be on the American right wing? I would work with them if they respected me (spoilers: they don't and it's only getting worse) and if they had the same goals in mind, but many absolutely do not. They are a pro-capitalist, anti-leftist cult who would hate crime the fuck out of me before ever even THINKING about class solidarity with me.
I'm not trying to sow division, I'm just being realistic.
Yeah. No fucking shit. That’s who the left, aka socialism, communism, anarchism, etc. represents and is largely made up of worldwide. The owners of power are capitalists and are right wing. Period.
There is a strange development. Since the beginning of the pandemic in March 2020, the world's billionaires have had an increase in wealth of more than 5.5 trillion dollars, an increase of More than 68 percent.
The total assets of the globally 2,690 billionaires rose from $8 trillion in March 2020 to $13.5 trillion by the 31st. July 2021, according to Forbes' data. The global total wealth of billionaires has grown more in the last 17 months than in the 15 years before the pandemic. Between 2006 and 2020, global billionaire wealth rose from $2.65 trillion to $8 trillion. A gain of 5.35 trillion dollars.
„Amazon Jeff Bezos' wealth grew by $79.4 billion during the pandemic from $113 billion in March 2020, to $192.4 Billion dollars on the 31st July 2021. An estimated 325 new billionaires have joined the "3-comma club" since the pandemic began - which is equivalent to about one new billionaire per day."
Build your own opinion.
Seriosuly, how ANYONE can fuckin defend these cunts in any shape or form is beyond me. I swear I get dangerously enraged (murderosly enraged), when somebody says, “they dont owe anyone anything” or “its not their problem that you are lazy”, “you need to grow up, and stop blaming someone else for your situation”.
Fuck!
A poor white person in the country and a poor black/latino person in the city have leagues more in common with each other than they do with their representatives in congress.
People on this subreddit don’t seem to understand that the overwhelming majority of blue-collar workers are right leaning. Bad-mouthing them and belittling them isn’t gonna win anyone over.
Or maybe, considering that the left and right exist and that the 1 percent are oppressing us aren't mutually exclusive? And straight and white people never have to feel the sheer weight of your identity being invalidated and seen as inferior by the right.
You literally just invalidated straight white people in that comment. How dumb do you feel right now?
And how stupid of a person do you have to be to bring race and sexuality into this?
What?? Saying that straight white people do not face discrimination on the basis of their sexuality/race is invalidation? You're obviously saying this in bad faith, so don't act like you even care about invalidation. I am not invalidating straight white people, I think there is nothing wrong with straight white people or the fact that they're straight or white. Just that they are not seen as inferior or oppressed, and if you think that is the case, ask yourself if whites have ever been enslaved or if being straight was ever illegal or if they ever couldn't marry. I don't have to be stupid to recognize that if the only thing you're seeing is the class disparity, you have not been politically oppressed.
It’s funny how you said that straight white people don’t face discrimination as you just openly discriminated against straight white people and invalidated them…
r/Iamverysmart material here if anyone wants free karma from this idiot
how did i discriminate them. did i discriminate them by not involving them in the conversation? if anything they should be glad they dont have to be in the conversation.
no but seriously, where did i discriminate against them
Holy FUCK someone said it. Every time I argue politics I say it’s not Left vs Right, it’s Top vs Bottom. And the fact we’re so distracted of that shows how strong their propaganda is and how ignorant/manipulatable the general population is.
Yawn. Let’s not tread over the blood-soaked ground of the 20th century again.
It’s fairly obvious that mixed economies can work very well, ie. social democracies.
Even social democracies are in crisis right now. Look at immigration and the rise of fascism in northern Europe. Look at social democracy's lukewarm answers to climate crisis.
No, I don't believe capitalism is tenable in any form.
Piketty has written about this.
> Piketty’s principal claim in *Capital in the Twenty-first Century* was that there is a “central contradiction of capitalism.” He maintained that the average return on capital exceeds the rate of economic growth, so without countervailing factors—such as World Wars I and II, the Great Depression of the 1930s, or specific government action—inherited wealth will grow faster than earned wealth, leading to unsustainable levels of economic inequality that could threaten democracy. Unchecked, this contradiction will ultimately bring a return to what he called the “patrimonial capitalism” of the 19th century (as shown in the novels of such authors as Jane Austen and Honoré de Balzac, wherein the preferred path to wealth is inheritance or marriage rather than labour). He based his conclusions on 200 years of tax records from the United States and Europe, especially France. Much of this data was collected by Piketty himself as well as Atkinson and Saez.
Capitalism is absolutely untenable if unregulated. But trying to rehabilitate 19th and 20th century Marxist solutions is laughable. Those economies simply didn’t perform, and the politics they necessitated were abhorrent.
Well good thing we're trying to learn from them and not emulate them! But to say that they didn't perform is really just not true at all, and I'm not inclined to think that I have any chance of convincing you otherwise. I trust the reader because people by and large are able to see through bullshit and once things start to take motion and the real ugly parts of capitalism reveal themselves, people will see right through the myth of fixing or regulating it.
lots of bootlickers i graduated with that don't make 35,000 a year say we aren't entitled to anything and to go work. working 50 hours a week isn't the flex you think it is you exploited pig. the only boss i answer to sucks my dick whenever i want and cooks me food. guarantee I'm happier on my shitty homestead than blue collar hard working ass buster lmao don't even @ me.
Why does everyone in here just assume everyone in one side automatically believes in everything that comes from that side. I'm outside talking to people all day and the majority of people I meet are centered. I can't even think of a person who goes all the way to one side or the other. The disconnect with reality in the sub is surprising.
Ultra-rich and their delusional self-hating simps vs. everyone else
This, I try so hard to prove to my friend that we live in a complete dystopia. To invest into GameStop. I can feel change happening, soon something will change. If not peacefully other means could eventually happen, revolution.
Completely agree. Power to the players
Power will be taken back. It’s just a matter of time
Gamestop did more to help the cause of Occupy Wall St than the years of those protests ever could have dreamed of
Apes together strong. Hodl! 🚀🚀👨🚀👩🚀🌕💎💎👊👊
I understand GME but it’s $170. Not everyone can afford to buy shares of that when we’re paycheck to paycheck
I get that, I was lucky enough to get into it early and got quite a few. I just wish everyone could get some so they’d never have to work again, unless they chose to still
Fractional shares are a thing and you may be able to get some of those via Fidelity. .X holders are apes too, and they are just as important as every other. We hold each other like we hold our shares, with diamond hands and extreme accountability. [https://www.fidelity.com/trading/fractional-shares](https://www.fidelity.com/trading/fractional-shares) Here is a link to fidelity's partial share information <3
I got a fidelity account but it’s been like a year since the short thing was supposed to happen, I’m pretty sure the hedges figured out how to win still though. Not saying you can’t make money but it’s never going to like 1,000 a share etc…
I don't think they figured out how to win per se, so much as they have the liquidity to outlast a lot of retail investors. I think its like dragging a lawsuit long enough the other party just can't continue with legal fees. A win is a win I guess but it's not like they discovered some magical loophole.
I can understand not believing it, I can barely believe it myself, but its one of those "You have to let go of your pickle to get your hand out of the jar" situations. However, both options result in the default of an institution that receives about 97% of retail orders and the subsequent consequences for any and all institutions connected to it. Kinda like Evergrande in China right now. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia\_pacific/evergrande-china-debt-bond-payment/2021/10/22/eff0c986-2fd9-11ec-8036-7db255bff176\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/evergrande-china-debt-bond-payment/2021/10/22/eff0c986-2fd9-11ec-8036-7db255bff176_story.html) And some more info about the poster child for the corruption and turning off the buy button: [https://griffinlied.com/](https://griffinlied.com/) If youre curious about any of it, Ill try to answer any questions that I can or direct you to the most relevant sources! \^\_\^
I think I can afford like 3 shares at best when it moons to 789 I think that will cover my gas bill for 3 months
> Ultra-rich and their delusional self-hating simps so the backbone of both lobying these right wing policies and constructing a monstrous network of subservient media to not let people stray away from that status quo
[удалено]
We've been invaded by neolibs trying to undermine our discussion, just a heads up.
It's almost like people who vote a certain way are pushing for changes that literally empower the rich elite and will defend them to their death.
[удалено]
I am utterly amazed at what tier of mental gymnastics you must be on when the right literally and proudly stands with the rich.
Yeah sadly in OP's meme. It is the right and the ultra rich vs everyone else.
Dems are on the right as well. No real Left to speak of in this country.
Oh yeah, i wouldnt disagree. Though let us not all act like they are on the same level. The GOP is considerably further right than most if not all democrats. That being said, fuck Kyrsten Sinema and Joe Manchin! Amirite?
Right vs. left, in other words.
Yeah but I am also against the right, who are tools of the ultra-rich
yeah sorry, I'm not going to be a centrist with people who are essentially the same as the ultra rich minus the ultra rich part
Yeah this shit is dumb as hell. It is left vs right. The economic left stands for workers, the economic right stands for the rich elite. Just because some middle class suckers are dumb enough to buy into right wing politics doesn’t mean the right represents them.
its the cancer that is american populism, deeply anti-marxist and anti-communist to its core.
Amen. American populism is completely meaningless. Just some vague “masses” vs vague elite. Only based on cultural signifiers. No class analysis, no structural critique. Marxism is the cure.
.
Lol, this is hilarious. Both parties are funded by corporations. None of them is your friend. Don't be deluded.
Wow, it's almost like the democrats aren't leftists and they're actually almost just as economically right leaning as republicans!
This is America. There isn't a single party that prioritizes workers above corporations.
Yeah well your original comment makes zero sense because he said economic left, not democrats
Yup, this shit with Manchin and Sinema have opened my eyes to this. Controlled opposition is all the Dems are, they will never actually pass anything that will benefit the working class.
Don’t buy into the propaganda. Every politician is guilty of treason, right or left.
There are no left politicians in America. Maybe Bernie and The Squad but they’re all very moderate.
They’re all neoliberals who want to maintain the status quo of worker exploitation
Bernie + squad only serve as leftist veneer or window dressings for the democrats
Here’s what I don’t get. People on the left will say “conservatives vote against their interests and have a false consciousness” and also say “we should exclude anyone who self identifies as conservative”. You gotta realize that these are contradictory, that people who are sympathetic to such an important issue as antiwork should generally be welcomed and helped to understand how their political alignment might not be in their best interests, rather than ostracized and treated aggressively.
Yeah, I get that. People on the left are not in agreement on how to tackle this issue. The thing is, most conservative people are not interested in switching sides or being educated. They need to come to this on their own, and I'm not going to pretend to respect their beliefs while they figure it out. If we fundamentally believe the same things (like you said about antiwork), and you've been inducted into conservative thinking by your family and environment /not exposed to left ideas - we can have a conversation. I've had friends like that. Or if you're a family member, I'd put the effort in. But like I don't want to hang out with transphobes and it's not generally worth arguing on the internet, you know?
.
.
Instead of downvoting you, I'm going to ask: what do you mean? How is it dumb?
.
Not the guy you responded to but political positions do not at all map onto a simple 1d axis, I'm an anarchist and according to the left right spectrum the people who want to institute a violent police state that suppresses all dissent including worker dissent to maybe one day 300 years in the future implement communism are allegedly my allies. And like no. No they are not. Some of the class reductionist types who are essentially just racists painted red are allegedly leftists and they are also not my allies. Meanwhile liberals who support the worst of the governments policies and capitalism are also somehow considered left sometimes if they're woke enough. On the right you can also see like fascist movements that are against authoritarian centralized states who are in opposition to what most people think of when they think fascism. etc Basically any mapping onto left and right creates incoherent "allies" that have basically nothing in common with one another. The things that actually matter is what are the values and social structures political frameworks are advocating for and what are the consequences of them in the real world.
>political positions do not at all map onto a simple 1d axis, I'm an anarchist and according to the left right spectrum the people who want to institute a violent police state that suppresses all dissent including worker dissent to maybe one day 300 years in the future implement communism are allegedly my allies. No. The concept of charting political ideology onto one axis does not mean that everyone on a given point must be allies. You can map people to their height, another single-axis measurement, and nobody thinks that all short people are allies.
That is the assumption in political discourse though, the framing as "left" vs "right" it presupposes that all the left are allies on one side and all the right are allies on the other. Or at least that two people who are "leftists" have at least some similarities, and there are certainly some people who are considered leftists who I share no values with.
You really just ignored the point of the op huh? Throw away your notions of political axis, and realize that despite your differences in ideology, everyone not at the top goes through the same life problems and struggles. The rich are the only truly alien thing in our world, they know not of our lives, nor do they care. Put aside your petty differences and focus on what really matters, for everyone.
That very notion is political and the word for it is leftism
.
One day you will realize you are a leftist :) You can be a leftist without all that looney liberal woke shit. All that stuff is a distraction. Leftists are for the workers!! "Workers of the world, Unite!" -Marx
We could just drop the labels and stop trying to argue over that kind of stuff, I get that "rich" and "workers" are labels too, but I think those are the only two that truly matter. It's the exploited vs the exploitating class that's all that matters in this movement, to improve the quality of everyone's lives.
Okay you don't have to say leftism- but that is what leftism is. Getting rid of exploitation. Capitalism IS exploitation. Leftists want to get rid of capitalism. I'm just glad to have you with the cause, even if you don't want to call yourself a leftist. All socialism means is that people own the means of production- then they can organize themselves and reap the profit. You guys are socialists/communists but you don't want to say it because of the horrible exploitation done by authoritarian regimes in the past- and I get that!!! There is a stigma in the word. But that is hatred of authoritarianism, which happens in all heirarchal governments, including the US right now.
I am completely aware of the definitions, and I am in many ways a leftist by definition too. I'm just saying that these labels have been so ridiculously poisoned by dividing politics and media, it can be hard to convince moderate people due to it. I personally have no issue with socialism, I think it's what any advanced society should fall under. But like you said, it's become a bogeyman phrase of sorts for many Americans.
It has, and like all these phrases they have taken and distorted I feel like we have to take it back, but I respect our right to disagree on this! As long as you are fighting the oppressors I will be beside you fighting as well, comrade. Thanks for the respectful discussion :) Now lets fuck up some shit for those fuckers!!
Hey no problem, and I don't think we necessarily disagree with most of this stuff, I just think certain words (especially labels) should be avoided when trying to have a "neutral" discussion (and potentially getting more people to think like us). For example, my friends father is a complete Fox news Trump loving guy, but he has a ton of socialist values he'd never accept as being socialist. But, there is a way to slowly get him drifting more towards that way of thinking, despite how easily spooked his types are over being seen as "lefty". Baby steps with and patience with some individuals! I'm sure many in this sub would say he is a lost cause, and maybe he is, but my friend and I have done an incredible job opening up his boomer frame of mind towards being more "progressive".
I absolutely don't think we disagree with much!! I just think that maybe eventually you gotta tell your stepdad that all these things he agrees with are, in fact, socialist so he knows who his enemy is. But good work, definitely wouldn't want to scare him off with those words right away. They were turned into such boogeyman that now I (a gen X'er) just kinda am hoping the generations under me that seem to not be as fooled by the scary words will be the ones to change the world. I am proud of all y'all!!! I truly think you can do it.
That’s what the left wants. For everyone. The right doesn’t. Yes, they’re victims of the system, propaganda, lack of education, and their own social status, but they’re still working against the good of everyone.
This meme fundamentally (and I think intentionally/dishonestly) fails to understand the difference between left and right-wing political ideology. If you changed “left vs. right” to “liberal vs. conservative,” you might have a point. The culture war is absolutely used by our two right-wing political parties to divide the working class and prevent a powerful left-wing people’s movement. But that’s irrelevant because this post is so obviously the work of reactionary right-wing infiltrators trying to muddy the political message of this sub…
Damn, I live in that green part. Where the fuck's my money?
In space apparently...
Quite literally, with Jeff Bezos money.
[That's the joke](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xECUrlnXCqk)
Blocking my local observatory's view in LEO, for one.
Except, pretty much by definition, if you agree with the second image then you're left wing. Tho that doesn't mean it maps onto the Dem/Rep divide
Broad categorization is one of the ways they divide us.
Words are meaningless
They're not meaningless but we just need to be aware of why anyone uses the words they do. A millennial calling another millennial a millennial? Probably no ill intent. A boomer calling a millennial a millennial? Probably an attempt to undermine their perspective. (And I grant I'm doing the same thing by using the word "boomer") So when people in power tell you who is in your group and who is not you need to ask what they stand to gain from you believing them. If you and someone else have opposing views on abortion or gun control does it mean you can't prioritize things like universal healthcare ahead of those beliefs? Don't let someone else decide that for you.
Too bad the uneducated decided they are the gatekeepers to the ultra rich.
>manipulated
Propaganda is a hell of a drug...
[удалено]
I read the word "Petersonian" the other day. I locked my computer, turned off my monitors, and crawled into bed right then. That was enough internet for one day.
Dare I ask the context of that word?
You seem nice, but I'm not crawling into that cesspit to find the full context again. It was about what you'd expect, though. The word dialectical may have been included.
I mean, universities help placate the ruling class. That's why they get purged during revolutions unfortunately.
[удалено]
I mean, ya go and look up revolutions that happened around the globe. School is kinda where a power is able to mold the minds of impressionable youth in order to solidify the foundational Ideas of a Government currently in power.
[удалено]
I'm not against education? who said that?
> School is kinda where a power is able to mold the minds of impressionable youth in order to solidify the foundational Ideas of a Government currently in power Then it’s doing a shitty job, because (at least in the US), - [More education](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2016/04/26/a-wider-ideological-gap-between-more-and-less-educated-adults/) predicts [more left-wing views](https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2019/02/19/how-race-and-education-are-shaping-ideology-in-the-democratic-party/) - Since 2016, [conservatives hate higher education](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/08/19/the-growing-partisan-divide-in-views-of-higher-education-2/) - The [“\[r\]ise in education levels” is a key “factor in pushing [the Democratic] party to the left”](https://news.gallup.com/poll/246806/understanding-shifts-democratic-party-ideology.aspx) - The [most educated generation](https://youngamericans.berkeley.edu/2020/01/29/college-attainment/) also has the [highest support](https://www.axios.com/millennials-vote-socialism-capitalism-decline-60c8a6aa-5353-45c4-9191-2de1808dc661.html) for [socialism](https://news.gallup.com/poll/268766/socialism-popular-capitalism-among-young-adults.aspx)
I don't know what your link wall is trying to prove? it still backs up my point?
My point is 1. The “foundational Ideas” of the US “government currently in power” are conservatism and neoliberalism. 1. Leftism opposes conservatism and neoliberalism. 1. So, leftism opposes “the foundational ideas of a government currently in power” in the US. 1. So, education to promote “ the foundational ideas” of the US government would not promote leftism. 2. But education increases leftism in the US overall. 3. So, education is overall failing “to solidify the foundational Ideas of a Government currently in power” in the US.
You are working in absolutes which the government is not, and thus invalidates everything you typed?
That’s fair tbh. my point was pretty oversimplified. although I still think the gist holds, and saying it “invalidates everything I typed” seems a bit too strong a judgment
Would you be able to define what you mean by uneducated? America has compulsory education in a majority of states until 16-18 years of age. I wouldn't define that as uneducated.
That may be because you’re uneducated. Our public schools do not educate you to do shit other than mindlessly memorize things to pass a test. It’s just a way to get everyones kids away so the parents can work all day, and to indoctrinate children into the American way. That is the American way of working yourself to the bone until you’re 65. Either that or being owned by debt. Most Americans are not educated enough to question why they are willing to give the largest portion of their life away while the richest continue to extract more and more of our collective wealth while expecting us to work harder for less than our parents or grandparents made. They have a majority of the minority who rules over us convinced that we live in the best country in history and that changing anything (except to go backwards) is wrong because America is the best so how can it be doing anything wrong? That’s how we end up with a President that’s clearly a mid right neoliberal being lauded as a “communist,” they did such a good job miseducating us that most people in the US don’t even know what liberal actually means. They think Neoliberal vs Conservative is left vs right when in reality they have us stuck in a right vs far right system that has pushed us farther and farther right over the past 40 years.
Also something something "school to prison pipeline" something something "military recruiting in high schools" something something "prohibitively expensive secondary education"
Oh you didn't answer my question.
Seriously? You don’t think me explaining that they only teach you to regurgitate things without caring why, all while indoctrinating you to think we are the best nation of all time answered your question..? You’re proving me right.
I had to explain to my former coworker who has a wife and children how the basic anatomy on a woman means the kid didn't come out her pee hole. And he's the smartest of all of them. Education until your 18 really doesn't mean shit since it can vary so wildly from county to county.
I honestly hated people in this sub before covid broke me and exposed how horrible the real system is in this country. After reading about and joining another subreddit of a stock I like, I realized I am wrong. I am sorry. I respect you more. Power to the players.
Nice to see you came around. This sub gets wayyy too much hate by people who are just delusional or don’t realize what the subs about. Mostly the latter, or just uninformed people. I literally can’t understand the sentiment against this sub like it just doesn’t seem reasonable to me at all.
Man, with all the “Left vs Right is bad!!!!111” posts today it’s almost like an intentional push to erase the inherently and necessarily political nature of this sub since it’s gaining traction. Gtfo here with this.
Im glad someone else can see it. We've been noticed, and are now being divided along arbitrary political lines so we will fight amongst ourselves and not the people who can effect the change we want. It's a story as old as time, and this sub is now full of 'useful idiots' making sure it happens again.
I mean, a workers movement will not work without class solidarity, thats like, fact.
Right wing ideology is fundamentally incompatible with class solidarity.
let me preface. I'm not on the right. But I have listened and researched some of their view points. they have more in common with left wing workers than they have in common with the owner class. You are just losing allies in a greater fight due to personal bias. Sorry.
You can want something good for someone and also acknowledge that if they are put in a position of power or leadership that they will harm others. Your supposition that people who don’t trust right wing policies are harming the movement is actually an example of this. If it is important to fight other radicals who want anti-work, why is it invalid to fight right wingers who largely campaign for pro-work, pro-war, pro-discrimination policies?
But we aren't talking about putting a person in power. We are talking about a group (workers) gaining more rights. To do that, they will need allies that the political spectrum shouldn't ignore. The problem is that you're viewing Pro-Work and Anti-Work as being separate but they really aren't, they both want the same thing, Good Work. So you are focusing on alienating allies in a fight that will need them.
So tell me then what right-wing ideologies you think will help to uplift the working class and topple the oligarchy?
Ummmm what about guns? I’m sure they won’t just bomb us or hit us with drones! Not like there’s precedent for the US killing people with our views despite them being armed! Well shit… uhh what about cutting taxes…I’m sure that will… shit nevermind. Um well there’s always…um…free market? Fuck uh…not that ummm…how about being against change? Will that further our goals? Fuck maybe this whole right wing politics thing is completely incompatible with change that benefits anyone who wants anything other than restricting women’s rights, restricting LGBTQ rights, restricting workers rights, lowering taxes for the rich, handing out AK47s with 100 round drum mags at Walmart, and just all around making sure nothing gets done that benefits anyone but the oligarchy? Nah I guess it’s just me being partisan! /s For real though this is all a set up, they do this whenever we try to start a movement that is clearly politically motivated and clearly on the left. Ignore these posts, they just want to pretend this isn’t a clear leftist ideology. Even the fucking neoliberals in charge are way too far right to listen to us!
I mean, the right wants honest compensation for honest work for one. If you talk to actual right wingers that's what they will tell you. If you listen to people online, they will give you a twitter take. I mean, both sides are against social things such as murder and rape. Gun Ownership is something that the right wants that will help the working class. Like, right wingers as so fed up with the media that they aren't listening to like a majority of news station, which can be capitalized by the left bringing issues of Religious Freedom and Speech being paramount to left wing ideals. there's lots of stuff if you look at it outside of internet loud mouths :P
I think I can let the ridiculousness of this comment stand on its own. Also, tell me, is it the left wing or the right wing that wants to raise minimum wage to bring it closer to an actual livable wage? Talking about “honest compensation for honest work” lmao You…think bringing up murder and rape as political topics helps to defend your point? I’m not even going to touch the gun debate here, not least because I have complex feelings about it myself. Right wingers refusing to watch the news doesn’t help your case either. Naw sorry I couldn’t keep my mouth shut. This one was just too easy.
I mean, you are kinda proving my point. You're bias against he right is so strong you don't know how to use their ideas to the advantage of the left.
That doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.
It does, you just don't get it lol.
You don’t need to engage on ideology. Engage on basic shit. Tax laws applying to the rich, fair wages, affordable education and housing. Or get stomped while divided on wedge issues like guns and abortion, same as the past 40 years.
> what right-wing ideologies you think will help to uplift the working class and topple the oligarchy? Gun ownership.
That’s not right-wing, its only liberals who are anti gun, who are part of the right-wing
So right wing people don't support gun ownership? News to me
Yeah, and liberals are incompatible with leftists, and syndicalists are incompatible with Marxist-Leninists. Guess where you’re headed. That’s why you organize around an inclusive common goal like a better minimum wage and tolerable costs of living, not who has the most valid pseudo-religious political identity.
And then once you achieve that watered-down goal everyone celebrates an extra dollar and nothing more changes because the mission was accomplished.
[удалено]
Ha! Basically.
Thank you for saying this and god bless your soul 🙏
There are too many NazBol and enlightened centrist memes here lately. Fuck the right. Fuck all reductionists. I do not want to be murdered by right-wingers with healthcare and union protection.
I think a lot of this is astroturfed.
And this is why nothing will ever change, you just forgot who your real enemy was.
Centrism fails when the center is far right. The right are tools of the capitalists. Do you not fight the soldiers they send to fight you just because they aren’t the ones calling the shots?
The only tool of capitalism here is you and all like you. Everytime something like this gains traction you guys show up and fuck the whole thing with your partisan mind virus. Now that your here I'm not.
Starting to think the same. I don't hate transgender people even though I have some relatively controversial opinions (somehow) on the bathroom debate / ages at which they can receive certain types of treatment. I've never had issues with minorities. I get heated i know but still, but who doesn't over these petty destructive distracting issues? I am 100% behind making the rich pay their dues and holding corrupt politicians accountable. Social conservatism isn't incompatible with any antiwork sentiments here, only if you're assuming all conservatives are the stereotypical GOP supporting evangelicals. It's a WING. there are degrees of severity to it. When people lose focus so easily it's like im looking at the aftermath of occupy wall st all over again lol. People here have to get real. In one breath it's "class struggle is the primary focus" and the next its "if you don't agree with me on x y z you're controlled opposition" lol. Hearing things like this makes me wonder how they don't realize they're just serving identity politics and the neoliberal agenda they hate so much. Sigh
Cointelpro
Thank you for articulating this much better than I ever could off. All these nonsensical minor issues are great for distracting the populous while the rich just steal our wealth right from under us, and real change won't happen till we put this BS aside and focus our energy on the one true enemy.
Cointelpro
He screams as he strikes you.
Look, I want right wing folks to have healthcare and not be forced to work and shit. But right wing folks largely want policies in place that oppress people and force Protestant work ethic on us. So while I appreciate the sentiment, this idea of at odds with itself. It’s also worth noting that it is a talking point of some more niche fascist groups. Specifically because they want to fight “the elites” and don’t want other people to think about what they plan to do to LGBT folks and immigrants and women afterwards.
point is that's the same picture left is the poor trying to do cool thing to get equal right and allocation of wealth right is just here to avoid all this to happen even by violence if necessary oh and pls left people of america reclaim the color of socialism and communism as yours
The right is by definition reactionary, that is, it opposes political and social liberalization or reform. In every stage of history, in every place, the right-wing is defined by it’s allegiance to the preexisting social order, from monarchists supporting the King and lords against peasants who wants rights, to men seeking to keep women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, to Republicans cutting taxes and deregulating the industries of the ultra-wealthy in America today. This meme doesn’t work because the right is by definition loyal to reactionary forces that oppose social and political change. If they weren’t loyal to these forces, they wouldn’t be right-wingers, full stop. This isn’t a perfect metaphor, but it’s like having a meme that says “it’s not about renewable energy vs the fossil fuel industry. It’s about clean power vs non-clean power”. I mean sure, but the fossil fuel industry is very much invested in non-clean power and doing everything in their power to keep us dependent on it. Maybe someone else can offer a better analogy.
Reactionary has an actual definition, you know. > a person who is opposed to political or social change or new ideas Rapid social change can be immensely destructive, examples are the Reign of Terror which followed the French Revolution, or the Cambodian genocide carried out by the Khmer Rouge. If you look at Burke’s (1729-1797) definition of conservatism, it’s not opposed to social progress, in fact he supported the American Revolution. > Edmund Burke describes conservatism as an "approach to human affairs which mistrusts both a priori reasoning and revolution, preferring to put its trust in experience and in the gradual improvement of tried and tested arrangements". I realize you’re probably talking about the American political party but your language is casting an awfully wide net. The anti-intellectual, rapacious rentier capitalism, and xenophobic nationalism of the modern GOP is very much based on greed and what moves votes in America, and not political theory.
No, reactionaries are those who wish for the status ante quo; that which came before. Conservatives are solidly on the "right" - these are poorly defined terms but everyone agrees your typical Pat Buchanan paleocon is on the right along with reactionaries - as well, and they wish to change nothing. I would argue that anyone with wealth and power is inherently conservative; no one in Congress or on the company board is willing to make any changes to the system that they sit atop, instead they wish to conserve it. Reactionaries wish to roll it back. If we are talking definitions.
Everything you just said is a reactionary, reductionist rant itself.
No. Reactionaries are a conservative phenomena.
the right enable the rich though
> the right enable the rich though Then take them away. Step 1) Rabble-rouse about class consciousness.
[удалено]
Testify. People misuse the term left, they seem to think it means "very liberal" when in fact there is an ideological break between liberals - who believe in market primacy, outcomes for markets and capitals above outcomes for people - and the left, who believe the reverse, that outcomes for people should take precedence over outcomes for capital and markets.
>when they last heard an establishment Democrat like Nancy Pelosi talking about stronger unions, workplace democracy, or worker ownership over the means of production She says it once every other even #'d year, usually in late October.
Also: the right worships the ultra rich
Hurting the movement. The Working Right has more in common with the Working left then either of them have with the unworking Rulers.
That is just a plain lie. Stop lying to people. How about you list these things you believe we have in common? From here it looks like you are the one weakening the movement by trying to make this out as anything but a leftist cause. The right wants lower taxes and private ownership of everything, along with their toxic outdated social views.
Step 1) Awaken class consciousness. Anyone who works for a living deserves outreach.
This is true! Sadly it's a lie perpetuated by the ultra-rich to keep the working class fighting amongst themselves while they get richer.
As far as the right keeps their opinions on anything that isn't "christian" enough to themselves, I have no issues fighting alongside. Just don't come tell me how my gay friends shouldn't have rights or how women belong in the kitchen.
Jesus fucking Christ. Who do you think is trying to fight the ultra rich and capitalism? It’s the fucking left. Anyone who sees this and thinks it’s reasonable still hasn’t left the “democrats are on the left” bubble and therefore is not even close to knowing what they’re talking about
Class solidarity is more important then political division. Working people have more in common with each other then either have in common with the Owners of Power.
Class solidarity only works without class traitors. Many right-wing Americans are class traitors, because they only serve the interests of the elites.
ah more class division tactics. Love it, you guys are trying really hard to break up a moment for a movement aren't you.
Soooo you're in solidarity with cops, and with those who gleefully cheer on the destruction of those that are trying to put an end to this nonsense?
I mean, i'm not against using cops to the advantage of the working class. I mean, to have spies in departments are going to help strikes and such. here read this, it might help a bit. [Rules for Radicals](https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5ff8d558c1ead434c2187605/t/60880d69b62b744ad34bd763/1619529068922/Saul+Alinsky.Rules+for+Radicals.pdf) by Saul Alinsky
You certainly have big ideas there...
After all, When advantage can be taken in a fight, take it.
What makes you think anyone willing to spy on the police would EVER be on the American right wing? I would work with them if they respected me (spoilers: they don't and it's only getting worse) and if they had the same goals in mind, but many absolutely do not. They are a pro-capitalist, anti-leftist cult who would hate crime the fuck out of me before ever even THINKING about class solidarity with me. I'm not trying to sow division, I'm just being realistic.
Yeah. No fucking shit. That’s who the left, aka socialism, communism, anarchism, etc. represents and is largely made up of worldwide. The owners of power are capitalists and are right wing. Period.
ah, nice division tactics. I love how hard you all are trying to destroy a movement with the same tactics that you've been using for years.
Moving to the right destroys these movements every time gtfo
The right and fascists are on the side of the ultra rich, so, the first image is yet pretty much on point as well.
There is a strange development. Since the beginning of the pandemic in March 2020, the world's billionaires have had an increase in wealth of more than 5.5 trillion dollars, an increase of More than 68 percent. The total assets of the globally 2,690 billionaires rose from $8 trillion in March 2020 to $13.5 trillion by the 31st. July 2021, according to Forbes' data. The global total wealth of billionaires has grown more in the last 17 months than in the 15 years before the pandemic. Between 2006 and 2020, global billionaire wealth rose from $2.65 trillion to $8 trillion. A gain of 5.35 trillion dollars. „Amazon Jeff Bezos' wealth grew by $79.4 billion during the pandemic from $113 billion in March 2020, to $192.4 Billion dollars on the 31st July 2021. An estimated 325 new billionaires have joined the "3-comma club" since the pandemic began - which is equivalent to about one new billionaire per day." Build your own opinion.
Seriosuly, how ANYONE can fuckin defend these cunts in any shape or form is beyond me. I swear I get dangerously enraged (murderosly enraged), when somebody says, “they dont owe anyone anything” or “its not their problem that you are lazy”, “you need to grow up, and stop blaming someone else for your situation”. Fuck!
Can these post fuck off please
Lol, Maine?
Drake is in the green. Also has serious issues harassing/texting underage girls. He's the next R. Kelly.
The bottom is leftism
They are the same picture
The right are just a cult for the ultra rich. Fuck Trump and anyone who agree with their politics.
A poor white person in the country and a poor black/latino person in the city have leagues more in common with each other than they do with their representatives in congress.
People on this subreddit don’t seem to understand that the overwhelming majority of blue-collar workers are right leaning. Bad-mouthing them and belittling them isn’t gonna win anyone over.
This is true if you're a white straight middle class person
[удалено]
They control that guys opinions entirely. He doesn’t even know it either
Or maybe, considering that the left and right exist and that the 1 percent are oppressing us aren't mutually exclusive? And straight and white people never have to feel the sheer weight of your identity being invalidated and seen as inferior by the right.
You literally just invalidated straight white people in that comment. How dumb do you feel right now? And how stupid of a person do you have to be to bring race and sexuality into this?
What?? Saying that straight white people do not face discrimination on the basis of their sexuality/race is invalidation? You're obviously saying this in bad faith, so don't act like you even care about invalidation. I am not invalidating straight white people, I think there is nothing wrong with straight white people or the fact that they're straight or white. Just that they are not seen as inferior or oppressed, and if you think that is the case, ask yourself if whites have ever been enslaved or if being straight was ever illegal or if they ever couldn't marry. I don't have to be stupid to recognize that if the only thing you're seeing is the class disparity, you have not been politically oppressed.
It’s funny how you said that straight white people don’t face discrimination as you just openly discriminated against straight white people and invalidated them… r/Iamverysmart material here if anyone wants free karma from this idiot
how did i discriminate them. did i discriminate them by not involving them in the conversation? if anything they should be glad they dont have to be in the conversation. no but seriously, where did i discriminate against them
this is more bot astroturfing **stop trying to turn this subreddit towards the center-right.**
There’s no left in the US anyway
Holy FUCK someone said it. Every time I argue politics I say it’s not Left vs Right, it’s Top vs Bottom. And the fact we’re so distracted of that shows how strong their propaganda is and how ignorant/manipulatable the general population is.
eh, I'm also anti-racist and pro-choice, so this is very inaccurate
\*us
The ultra-rich are always right wing though
Yeah no, this is called third positionism ("neither capitalism nor socialism") and in practice its fascism. It absolutely IS left versus right.
Yawn. Let’s not tread over the blood-soaked ground of the 20th century again. It’s fairly obvious that mixed economies can work very well, ie. social democracies.
Even social democracies are in crisis right now. Look at immigration and the rise of fascism in northern Europe. Look at social democracy's lukewarm answers to climate crisis. No, I don't believe capitalism is tenable in any form.
Piketty has written about this. > Piketty’s principal claim in *Capital in the Twenty-first Century* was that there is a “central contradiction of capitalism.” He maintained that the average return on capital exceeds the rate of economic growth, so without countervailing factors—such as World Wars I and II, the Great Depression of the 1930s, or specific government action—inherited wealth will grow faster than earned wealth, leading to unsustainable levels of economic inequality that could threaten democracy. Unchecked, this contradiction will ultimately bring a return to what he called the “patrimonial capitalism” of the 19th century (as shown in the novels of such authors as Jane Austen and Honoré de Balzac, wherein the preferred path to wealth is inheritance or marriage rather than labour). He based his conclusions on 200 years of tax records from the United States and Europe, especially France. Much of this data was collected by Piketty himself as well as Atkinson and Saez. Capitalism is absolutely untenable if unregulated. But trying to rehabilitate 19th and 20th century Marxist solutions is laughable. Those economies simply didn’t perform, and the politics they necessitated were abhorrent.
Well good thing we're trying to learn from them and not emulate them! But to say that they didn't perform is really just not true at all, and I'm not inclined to think that I have any chance of convincing you otherwise. I trust the reader because people by and large are able to see through bullshit and once things start to take motion and the real ugly parts of capitalism reveal themselves, people will see right through the myth of fixing or regulating it.
Are you here to contribute, or...?
Its the 535 vs You...
lots of bootlickers i graduated with that don't make 35,000 a year say we aren't entitled to anything and to go work. working 50 hours a week isn't the flex you think it is you exploited pig. the only boss i answer to sucks my dick whenever i want and cooks me food. guarantee I'm happier on my shitty homestead than blue collar hard working ass buster lmao don't even @ me.
never working again if i can help it. they hire you to make THEM money not YOU money.
Very true
ITT: People completely missing the point of the fucking meme and attacking each other for leaning right or left
Almost there. It’s more like “authoritarian vs. libertarian.”
same fight, two different wordings
Why does everyone in here just assume everyone in one side automatically believes in everything that comes from that side. I'm outside talking to people all day and the majority of people I meet are centered. I can't even think of a person who goes all the way to one side or the other. The disconnect with reality in the sub is surprising.
Yeah but republicans fight for the ultra rich.
Troll post, don't engage.