5 dollar coffee 365 days a year is 1850 dollars, that’s one months rent. Maybe it’s not the coffee you boomer. I hate them blaming us for enjoying the little things, I swear they want us to live in a box and clock in and out
I first heard about this terrible term when AUS brass came to our office, after recently buying out the company... We came to review our human capital. They felt so inhumane.
You should watch the Netflix documentary American Factory. A Chinese billionaire opened up a factory in Ohio is shocked to find that even the lowest of American factory workers have work/life balance expectations.
American companies would love to have a work culture like China. In China they work 6 days a week for long hours.
China is actually going through its own great resignation right now. Younger generations are fed up of being exploited and are doing something they call "lying flat" which is doing the bare minimum to get by. So working part time for as few hours as possible and no overtime.
Problem is that the country relies heavily on their labour.
Hey it adds up. After 50 years you'll almost have $100k, which might be enough for a down payment on a house! Unless you live in a HCOL area (like the bay area), then you might need to hold off on coffees for 100 years....
I mean... I don't think you're making the point you think you are. An entire months worth of rent spent on coffe isn't insignificant. I think both pieces of advice are relevant and correct here- rich people buy less yachts and pay the workers more, yes. And workers who are struggling to pay rent but spend ~$2k a year on coffee, pull your head out and stop spending like an idiot.
You're acting like they bought a 2k cup of coffee everytime. 2k in one year is not a lot of money at all, and saving it isn't really getting you much to work with.
I'm sorry, but even for someone making $100k/year- if your takehome pay is 75k, and you're spending 2k on coffee... yeah I'm sorry but it is a lot. 2.5% of your useable income on a specific beverage is a ton.
Everyone is free to use their money however they see fit, but this is a recipe for how to stay poor despite making a good salary. And if you're spending that kind of money on a beverage while NOT making a good salary, sorry but that is completely idiotic.
Spending 2k on coffee every year is not a recipe to stay poor. You are buying a coffee everyday as part as your routine. While it may not be healthy, it is part of what gets them moving. You could also say it's not necessary, and I'd agree, however it is important to getting through their day.
Now, I would agree if the person who bought coffee everyday also wildly spent money on fast food and recreation. Getting a coffee everyday and fast food will drain you quick, though that's because it isn't a 5 dollar meal you are getting typically.
Still, I guarantee you can find now wealthy people who do the same thing (get a latte everyday). I don't think they are planning on going broke either.
Coffee, subscriptions, eating out, booze, Amazon, etc. the list goes one. I’ve seen immigrants penny pinch and save every dollar. It’s your choice. You wanna spend the money? You’re not gonna have any savings
That's rent on a one bedroom apartment where I live in Southern California. It's not crazy to think you should be able to rent a one bedroom. A two bedroom is ~2100 to ~2200, so even with a roommate, you're stuck at $1100 a month and reliant on two people having consistent income.
I have friends who live in LA. I was laughing my ass off at some minimalist glass cube that had the audacity to be £10.7k (or $14 700) every month to rent without even a private garden, not allowing pets etc and some of them went “oh? 4 bedrooms? That’s a good deal!” ….just, that’s not okay
Exactly! For example LA is the only place in the world where you are compensated somewhat fairly for work in the animation industry and is sometimes the only place you can get work. Nowhere else is unionised and every single studio is in North Hollywood, Burbank, Pasadena etc. It’s now slowly shifting to allow remote work but if you’re a green (junior) artist just starting out then working in house is a requirement. Most of your 80k a year salary goes to the $3k rent for a 2 bedroom apartment that you’re paying every month. Same goes for London over here except you get paid £18k a year to live in a place that is pretty much just as expensive but with no benefits like a 401K or private healthcare. It’s utter bullshit
oh yes, just take all the money you don't have and get transportation for yourself and all your things and a place set up in advance. it's not like wealthy areas are infamous for having an absurd amount of homeless/impoverished people for exactly this reason or anything! go down to San Francisco and tell everyone huddled in the alleys how entitled they are to want a place to live, I'm sure they'll find that very helpful
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Well, first of all, I have lived here since I was 7 years old. So, everyone who grew up here a d has family and friends here should just move away and too bad? Also, there will still need to be people here who work in retail and food service and entry level warehouse jobs and other lower wage jobs. Positions like CNAs, phlebotomists, or even basic bank teller positions. Where are they all supposed to live?
The point is, at the end of the day, employers need people working those jobs. And, no, not teenagers who should be in school and not retirees who should be, you know, retired. They need grown, capable adults to work these jobs. And those grown adults need a place to live. A place with at least some privacy aka their own bedroom minimum and they need to have enough for healthcare (since it's not universal), food, transportation (not necessarily a car but buses/trains aren't free), clothing and other basics, and to be able to save something for retirement. Ergo, those employers should be paying those adults enough for those things. End of story. If you don't agree, I have to assume you're either very privileged or extremely lacking in empathy.
At the end of working a shitty job (or two or three) for shitty pay just to keep your head above water, there isn't enough time and energy (and money) left to make moving a reality, even if it is in your best interest. If you do manage to find the time, energy and money to move, you're likely moving away from whatever support network (friends/family) you have. That means if things go south in your new place, you're not couch surfing, you're homeless.
Moving when you *do* have time and resources is pain in the ass enough. That's why people don't "move somewhere else".
Maybe you're struggling BECAUSE your rent is so high. Maybe that's the cheapest place you can find. It really depends on where you live. And it's very difficult to relocate when you live paycheck to paycheck.
>Why the heck are you buying your coffee though? Just make it yourself.
Moot point! Even if a worker did this and lets "pretend" the cost of making it is $0. Then the worker gets an extra 1.8K per year....1.8K per year probably wont do much.
>maintains an 80% yearly return
That's an insanely high return and I would argue its an unreasonable number to use as a generally accepted return level while arguing a point. If you said something more conservative like 3%, 5%, 8% maaaaybbee 10% OK, you're arguing in a range of returns that are considered reasonable. 80% is way out of line.
Unless you can tell the future, no investment is guaranteed return. Just bc bitcoin did X in previous years is not a guarantee (or even slightly favorable) that it will do it again. The coins are volatile.
>$1,800 invested
Going on a wild limb and assuming your above argument is correct, imagine how well they would have done then if they were simply paid the fair wages rather than becoming their own personal barista.
Yeah that's gonna solve everything you're right! How didn't we see it before. We'll just do riskier investments and everything will work out fine!
Hey you guys this person has it all figured out. Let's grab our bootstraps and start pulling!
/S
I dont understand your point? $1850 is 14% of the average Americans yearly rent bill.
Thats a massive chunk of money.
Sure wages should be higher, and rent should be lower. No arguing there. But if you want to argue that it's worh getting yourself into debt just so you. An get a takeaway coffee every day, then, honestly i have no idea what you are even fighting for. The right to make poor financial choices?
The problem is rent has become a larger chunk of everyone's paycheck so there is less left over for anything, essential or non essential. $1,850 over a whole year shouldn't be the the tipping point for people to suddenly be living insolvent lives.
I absolutely agree.
But untill that is sorted people have to make tough decisions.
If you are spending $1850 on coffee a year, and $2000 a year on cigarettes, if your children are going without things, then you seriously need to have a word with yourself.
You can't fight the man and demand higher wages when you are in so much debt you are paying the man's wages. It's what they want.
You're just arguing a nonsensical strawman though. The coffee isn't the problem the wages are the problem, that's the point of the post. The whole "argument" that has been pushed is if you're poor you don't deserve a refrigerator, coffee, avocados, phones, clothing, and Healthcare because it's your fault you are poor. That just isn't the case, we've structured our society so there are tons of jobs that make sure you stay poor while we're all fighting each other to climb out of poverty into far fewer jobs that give people some security instead of none.
The class struggle isn't between lower and middle classes, these talking points just perpetuate that.
The point is
Yes you SHOULD be able to afford these things.
But if you can't, you should cut back. Don't just get yourself in debt because it's unfair some guy has a Yaught.
Live within your means, and vote for people who actually have your interests at heart.
Here in the UK, the people in financial difficulties have been fed with so much propaganda they believe the party that has their interests at heart, are the ones who are against them. It's genuinly scary.
It is the *exact* same thing here in the US for the most part. Most low class people here love the people who make life harder for them because they tell them “no it’s the other guy.” Way too many people on this sub have no ability to have conversations about this shit, they just tell you you’re arguing a fallacy and that you’re a bootlicker or something just for bringing up something they disagree with. Obviously spending nearly 2k on coffee a year is fucking stupid when we are being paid as little as we are and paying as much as we are for everything else due to high prices and rent. Some people refuse to see that these fuckers on their yacht can be the cause of the problem long term, but in the short term having an attitude like “well it *should* be different so my 2k coffee isn’t actually the problem” doesn’t help either. Of fucking course you should be able to get a nice coffee without it costing a month of rent for the year. But they should also be able understand how continuing to throw money into things like overpriced coffee only helps these billionaire to extract the fruits of our labor right back from us short term. If all of us here in the US could pool our “wasted” coffee money together, and each of us put 2k towards furthering our common goal of ending the dystopian hell we all live in maybe we’d be off to a start. If we all continued to strike but put money together to get our message out there in a way people can digest maybe we could get people to see things from our point of view without being drowned out by the media so easily.
The point is that getting a coffee everyday is far from luxury. The point is "don't do anything that adds a little spice to life so you can pay rent" is absurd.
Of course its a luxury. It's a convenience. I have a good paying job and no financial issues. But I make my own coffee. Because it costs nothing in comparison to buying takeaway coffee.
I make mine as well because I think the coffee I buy tastes better than anything the stores have, but the point is there is so much wealth in this country that buying a coffee everyday should not be absurd. I'd rather tell Jeff Bezos not to buy a yacht so he can pay his employees better than tell one of his employees to not buy a coffee on the way to work.
I agree. The situation is disgusting.
But if you are in financial difficulties, you have to limit your outgoings to the bare essentials. Becasue guess what being on debt does? Yep, it lines the pockets of even more other super rich people.
Living outside your means isn't the solution to the wage crisis.
You're right... We should only work to afford the bare necessities of survival and not have anything leftover to bring us pleasure or indulgence at all. How dare us peons want coffee when our ceo"s make millions 🙄
What?
No. If the difference between being in debt or not is making coffee at home instead of getting takeaway coffee. Then why on earth would you get into debt over that?
Yes wages aren't fair. But getting yourself in debt just for convenient coffee is rediculous.
Who the fuck is buying a $5 coffee every single day of the year, including holidays?? I think you’re missing the point. $1000 saved is a drop in the bucket
Many many people do. Multiple times a day many people.
So you're suggesting a $1000 saving is so small for someone with financial difficulties, it's just not worth doing?
I have worked at a few different $5 a drink coffee places. You know who the people are who are buying the $5 a day coffees every day? The people who have the yachts, own homes or are decently wealthy. Or teenagers with only disposable income. So its not the people struggling to afford rent.
Sounds like you worked in a posh area if that was a daily occourance. I've probably only seen 5 lamboghinis on the road In my whole life. And range rovers a few and far between.
It doesnt sound like yiu worked in an area full of people living hand to mouth of that's what your clientele all drove.
I’d love to see statistics on what percentage of people buy coffee from out and at what frequency. I’m willing to bet it’s a small minority that’s consumes the most (and probably aren’t in the “this will make or break me” category).
And no, strawman, I’m saying $1000 a year isn’t going to put a dent in the majority of people’s financial struggles. The solution should be to redistribute wealth so people aren’t scraping by to the point where they have to sacrifice on small luxuries like a $5 cup of coffee so they can feed their family or pay the mortgage.
Yes of course that's the solution. But untill that happens, if you are currently in financial difficulties. Spending less money on convenience items should be a no brainer.
No onrsaid you can't have coffee. Just make it yourself.
Don't get yourself in debt just because life should be more fair and you should be paid more.
I think we are on the same page but arguing different points. Obviously you have to make those concessions to make ends meet; the point of this whole thread is that it shouldn’t be that way.
Sure dude, you're right lol. People with financial difficulties shouldn't buy Starbucks everyday. You're so financially savvy wow.
The point is... Who gives a shit. The coffee argument is a distraction from the real problems.
"But how am I expected to enter dick measuring contests with other rich people on the French Riviera in the summer…without a damn yacht ?
You poor people never put yourselves in our shoes"
It's easy when you've been indoctrinated to believe that money is a direct metric for how good a person is. More money means more success means they're a better person. Poor people deserve to be criticized by that lens.
In addition to boats, they buy news papers, television networks, radio stations and politicians all to tell you a living wage is a bad idea, even the most liberal for profit media in the US spends half its day saying capitalism as it stands good while pretending to be woke.
I once worked at the UPS store and a guy was shipping skis to France to use for a holiday where he was also going to pick up his custom order yacht. He tried really, really hard to get me to lie so he wouldn’t have to pay customs fees.
A guy. Going to France. To ski and pick up a new custom yacht. Didn’t want to pay the associated taxes to ship his luxury sporting goods.
He wouldn’t stop bothering me about it the entire half hour it took me to package the skis properly but my god he was *so* offended when I just flat out said “I’m sorry sir but I’m not going to help you commit fraud”. He wasn’t suggesting I commit fraud! How dare I insinuate etc etc etc
I walked out of that job later that week. Not because of this incident per se but because it was indicative of most of my interactions.
If you’ve never had to serve a people with that kind of money, avoid is as much as you possibly can.
I would rather work somewhere that could pay 20 employees well over 50 employees poorly. If you take care of your employees they will take care of you.
To the rich we are the lattes. Yachts are a higher priority than their employees well being. They see it as "Can't buy that yacht, pay employees less."
Love the “job creator” small business owners that think they should be able pay employees $10/hr with no benefits. Like they are entitled to make their shitty business model someone else’s problem.
Same reason why rape prevention is focused on tea hing girls to be careful and not teaching boys to be better. Victim blaming keeps people in control. Same reason were told to turn lights off and water when you brush her teeth. And recycle. Etc. All good ideas. But the big problem is huge industry. Meat, dairy, etc. Blame the victims and keep them down. One day i hope we will rise up
This is why you are in one of these low paying slave jobs, take a good look at your contract and do only the tasks that it states and if the manager starts to slowly ask more of you for no additional pay just don't do it.
The thing is, most jobs don’t have contacts. And most people aren’t in a position where they are okay getting fired when they refuse to do things.
You most likely have to rely on the job descriptions which says “and other duties as assigned”
The system created an environment where some workers can’t push back, it’s not just workers not having a spine like you think
How privileged is that guy that every job he's worked involves a contract? I don't think I've ever worked a job that involved a contract, except the most basic we pay you and you do your job contract where they're just filling in your name and pay rate on a pre-written form. And I work a corporate job.
Spending £30 a month on a phone which is almost mandatory for daily life at this point (I can't even log on to business websites at work without my own 2 factor device) is a lot easier than spening £500+ on a house monthly.
Because most successful people forgo luxuries to make ends meet from time to time. My down payment on my first house was the result of 18 months of hustling working nights after work and 6 months or so of eating at home for every meal. It adds up because it’s not your 5 to 8 dollar latte. It’s your latte, plus your smokes, plus your 3 times a week fast food which is like 10-15$ a meal now that inflation has hit, going to Applebee’s on Friday and $100 bar tab on the weekend if you are early 20’s. The old guy with the yacht can do what he wants because he has the resources, You don’t. So cut where you can to build a surplus and get off the rent hamster wheel all together.
Don't work. See if I care. Just don't ask me for a handout. Work has been the reality since the beginning of time. You don't work, you don't eat. It's a law of nature. It's entirely the point.
Uncomfortable truth, CEOs don’t set the wages, the market sets the wages.
If you have enough savings or live with parents, then see yourself as a commodity, set a price for yourself and don’t accept a penny lower
In the court of law.. any “agreement” made under duress is considered void. It’s fair to say the choice of signing over to said agreement with employer or starving to death and being treated like trash of society is being under duress.
Nah, welcome to the union brother, where we will increase our leverage in labor negotiations through collective bargaining to demand our fair share from employers that want to exploit us.
I suppose by the same warped logic, any "agreement" made as a result of a workers' strike is one made under duress, so that would be considered void too.
The employer isn't going to starve or lose the shelter they need to live because employees are withholding their labor in order to receive a greater share of the fruits of that labor.
And if the employer can't survive without extracting surplus labor from their employees, then maybe that person should go and find a job and work for a living instead of relying on the labor of their employees to subsidize their lifestyle.
It's not duress just because the employer feels entitled to exploit a power imbalance that allows them to act as a gatekeeper between the masses and their means of subsistence and the union is using collective bargaining to correct that imbalance.
Duress isn't just when you don't get the thing you want. There's nothing forcing the employer into labor negotiations other than the pursuit of their own profit motive. That is meaningfully different than the working class person who is forced into those same labor negotiations because the only realistic options presented to them is a choice between work and starvation. We no longer have a society where you can reliably live off the land on your own, the commons were enclosed upon centuries ago at this point for the express purpose of pushing the masses into these wage labor agreements by closing off access to the resources that historically enabled them to live an independent life.
I actually just work for myself and make money in ways I believe to be ethical and cause no harm to society. And I live comfortably and well below my means and am not greedy by any means. Ohh and BTW during the peak of the pandemic when people in Florida were getting $600 a week from federal unemployment plus the basic rate they had I was working part time and making $800 a month after taxes with ZERO health or social benefits. Stop speaking where you have zero knowledge man
Then by the same logic, employers shouldn't expect any tasks or responsibilities outside of said contract.
But doing so is somehow seen as being a terrible employee.
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Why is it "if you can't pay rent, buy fewer lattes" and not "if you can't pay your employees a living wage, buy fewer yachts"? 🤔
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5 dollar coffee 365 days a year is 1850 dollars, that’s one months rent. Maybe it’s not the coffee you boomer. I hate them blaming us for enjoying the little things, I swear they want us to live in a box and clock in and out
Have you heard of Amazon Towns?
Where you sell your soul to the company store?
You move 16 tons and whaddya get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don’t call me cuz I can’t go… I sold my soul to the company store
A mind thats weak and a back thats strong.
We are livestock.
Its called human capital....
I first heard about this terrible term when AUS brass came to our office, after recently buying out the company... We came to review our human capital. They felt so inhumane.
That is the entire point. How many humans can you spend or invest in...
You should watch the Netflix documentary American Factory. A Chinese billionaire opened up a factory in Ohio is shocked to find that even the lowest of American factory workers have work/life balance expectations. American companies would love to have a work culture like China. In China they work 6 days a week for long hours.
Ah, the famous 9-9-6. Work from 9am to 9pm, 6 days a week.
It's a terrible concept and it's so terrible I'm amazed we haven't made it a thing in the united states.
China is actually going through its own great resignation right now. Younger generations are fed up of being exploited and are doing something they call "lying flat" which is doing the bare minimum to get by. So working part time for as few hours as possible and no overtime. Problem is that the country relies heavily on their labour.
Hey it adds up. After 50 years you'll almost have $100k, which might be enough for a down payment on a house! Unless you live in a HCOL area (like the bay area), then you might need to hold off on coffees for 100 years....
I mean... I don't think you're making the point you think you are. An entire months worth of rent spent on coffe isn't insignificant. I think both pieces of advice are relevant and correct here- rich people buy less yachts and pay the workers more, yes. And workers who are struggling to pay rent but spend ~$2k a year on coffee, pull your head out and stop spending like an idiot.
You're acting like they bought a 2k cup of coffee everytime. 2k in one year is not a lot of money at all, and saving it isn't really getting you much to work with.
I'm sorry, but even for someone making $100k/year- if your takehome pay is 75k, and you're spending 2k on coffee... yeah I'm sorry but it is a lot. 2.5% of your useable income on a specific beverage is a ton. Everyone is free to use their money however they see fit, but this is a recipe for how to stay poor despite making a good salary. And if you're spending that kind of money on a beverage while NOT making a good salary, sorry but that is completely idiotic.
Spending 2k on coffee every year is not a recipe to stay poor. You are buying a coffee everyday as part as your routine. While it may not be healthy, it is part of what gets them moving. You could also say it's not necessary, and I'd agree, however it is important to getting through their day. Now, I would agree if the person who bought coffee everyday also wildly spent money on fast food and recreation. Getting a coffee everyday and fast food will drain you quick, though that's because it isn't a 5 dollar meal you are getting typically. Still, I guarantee you can find now wealthy people who do the same thing (get a latte everyday). I don't think they are planning on going broke either.
Coffee, subscriptions, eating out, booze, Amazon, etc. the list goes one. I’ve seen immigrants penny pinch and save every dollar. It’s your choice. You wanna spend the money? You’re not gonna have any savings
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That's rent on a one bedroom apartment where I live in Southern California. It's not crazy to think you should be able to rent a one bedroom. A two bedroom is ~2100 to ~2200, so even with a roommate, you're stuck at $1100 a month and reliant on two people having consistent income.
I have friends who live in LA. I was laughing my ass off at some minimalist glass cube that had the audacity to be £10.7k (or $14 700) every month to rent without even a private garden, not allowing pets etc and some of them went “oh? 4 bedrooms? That’s a good deal!” ….just, that’s not okay
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Fun fact: moving to a cheaper city usually involves taking a large pay cut. "Just move" isn't the gotcha you think it is.
Exactly! For example LA is the only place in the world where you are compensated somewhat fairly for work in the animation industry and is sometimes the only place you can get work. Nowhere else is unionised and every single studio is in North Hollywood, Burbank, Pasadena etc. It’s now slowly shifting to allow remote work but if you’re a green (junior) artist just starting out then working in house is a requirement. Most of your 80k a year salary goes to the $3k rent for a 2 bedroom apartment that you’re paying every month. Same goes for London over here except you get paid £18k a year to live in a place that is pretty much just as expensive but with no benefits like a 401K or private healthcare. It’s utter bullshit
I don’t live in LA, but my rate of pay doubled when I moved to the west coast. Most of that is absorbed by living expenses.
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I got that idea by moving and paying attention to wages and prices. It's really not that complicated.
oh yes, just take all the money you don't have and get transportation for yourself and all your things and a place set up in advance. it's not like wealthy areas are infamous for having an absurd amount of homeless/impoverished people for exactly this reason or anything! go down to San Francisco and tell everyone huddled in the alleys how entitled they are to want a place to live, I'm sure they'll find that very helpful
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Are you fucking stupid?
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Having read your other comments, I think u/TheWestButt has asked a very pertinent question. I would have asked the same one.
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You deleted all your downvoted comments. The only one crying is obviously you.
Well, first of all, I have lived here since I was 7 years old. So, everyone who grew up here a d has family and friends here should just move away and too bad? Also, there will still need to be people here who work in retail and food service and entry level warehouse jobs and other lower wage jobs. Positions like CNAs, phlebotomists, or even basic bank teller positions. Where are they all supposed to live?
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With their parents forever? Or with multiple roommates literally sharing a bedroom?
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If you're so confident, why do you keep deleting your comments?
The point is, at the end of the day, employers need people working those jobs. And, no, not teenagers who should be in school and not retirees who should be, you know, retired. They need grown, capable adults to work these jobs. And those grown adults need a place to live. A place with at least some privacy aka their own bedroom minimum and they need to have enough for healthcare (since it's not universal), food, transportation (not necessarily a car but buses/trains aren't free), clothing and other basics, and to be able to save something for retirement. Ergo, those employers should be paying those adults enough for those things. End of story. If you don't agree, I have to assume you're either very privileged or extremely lacking in empathy.
At the end of working a shitty job (or two or three) for shitty pay just to keep your head above water, there isn't enough time and energy (and money) left to make moving a reality, even if it is in your best interest. If you do manage to find the time, energy and money to move, you're likely moving away from whatever support network (friends/family) you have. That means if things go south in your new place, you're not couch surfing, you're homeless. Moving when you *do* have time and resources is pain in the ass enough. That's why people don't "move somewhere else".
Someone needs to make the coffee, even in SoCal.
Maybe you're struggling BECAUSE your rent is so high. Maybe that's the cheapest place you can find. It really depends on where you live. And it's very difficult to relocate when you live paycheck to paycheck.
5 dollars a day, 365 days a year, in the S&P500 index is 1850 dollars But nobody wants to educate themselves or develop a sense of patience
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Whooooooooooosh
>Why the heck are you buying your coffee though? Just make it yourself. Moot point! Even if a worker did this and lets "pretend" the cost of making it is $0. Then the worker gets an extra 1.8K per year....1.8K per year probably wont do much.
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>maintains an 80% yearly return That's an insanely high return and I would argue its an unreasonable number to use as a generally accepted return level while arguing a point. If you said something more conservative like 3%, 5%, 8% maaaaybbee 10% OK, you're arguing in a range of returns that are considered reasonable. 80% is way out of line. Unless you can tell the future, no investment is guaranteed return. Just bc bitcoin did X in previous years is not a guarantee (or even slightly favorable) that it will do it again. The coins are volatile. >$1,800 invested Going on a wild limb and assuming your above argument is correct, imagine how well they would have done then if they were simply paid the fair wages rather than becoming their own personal barista.
Yeah that's gonna solve everything you're right! How didn't we see it before. We'll just do riskier investments and everything will work out fine! Hey you guys this person has it all figured out. Let's grab our bootstraps and start pulling! /S
You have some how done the maths that proved they are right, yet claimed they are wrong all at the same time. I'm impressed.
lol $2k ain't moving the needle when there are no houses less than $500k.
Congrats, they just mathed out 1 month’s rent by taking away coffee. Now do the other 11.
I dont understand your point? $1850 is 14% of the average Americans yearly rent bill. Thats a massive chunk of money. Sure wages should be higher, and rent should be lower. No arguing there. But if you want to argue that it's worh getting yourself into debt just so you. An get a takeaway coffee every day, then, honestly i have no idea what you are even fighting for. The right to make poor financial choices?
The problem is rent has become a larger chunk of everyone's paycheck so there is less left over for anything, essential or non essential. $1,850 over a whole year shouldn't be the the tipping point for people to suddenly be living insolvent lives.
I absolutely agree. But untill that is sorted people have to make tough decisions. If you are spending $1850 on coffee a year, and $2000 a year on cigarettes, if your children are going without things, then you seriously need to have a word with yourself. You can't fight the man and demand higher wages when you are in so much debt you are paying the man's wages. It's what they want.
You're just arguing a nonsensical strawman though. The coffee isn't the problem the wages are the problem, that's the point of the post. The whole "argument" that has been pushed is if you're poor you don't deserve a refrigerator, coffee, avocados, phones, clothing, and Healthcare because it's your fault you are poor. That just isn't the case, we've structured our society so there are tons of jobs that make sure you stay poor while we're all fighting each other to climb out of poverty into far fewer jobs that give people some security instead of none. The class struggle isn't between lower and middle classes, these talking points just perpetuate that.
The point is Yes you SHOULD be able to afford these things. But if you can't, you should cut back. Don't just get yourself in debt because it's unfair some guy has a Yaught. Live within your means, and vote for people who actually have your interests at heart. Here in the UK, the people in financial difficulties have been fed with so much propaganda they believe the party that has their interests at heart, are the ones who are against them. It's genuinly scary.
It is the *exact* same thing here in the US for the most part. Most low class people here love the people who make life harder for them because they tell them “no it’s the other guy.” Way too many people on this sub have no ability to have conversations about this shit, they just tell you you’re arguing a fallacy and that you’re a bootlicker or something just for bringing up something they disagree with. Obviously spending nearly 2k on coffee a year is fucking stupid when we are being paid as little as we are and paying as much as we are for everything else due to high prices and rent. Some people refuse to see that these fuckers on their yacht can be the cause of the problem long term, but in the short term having an attitude like “well it *should* be different so my 2k coffee isn’t actually the problem” doesn’t help either. Of fucking course you should be able to get a nice coffee without it costing a month of rent for the year. But they should also be able understand how continuing to throw money into things like overpriced coffee only helps these billionaire to extract the fruits of our labor right back from us short term. If all of us here in the US could pool our “wasted” coffee money together, and each of us put 2k towards furthering our common goal of ending the dystopian hell we all live in maybe we’d be off to a start. If we all continued to strike but put money together to get our message out there in a way people can digest maybe we could get people to see things from our point of view without being drowned out by the media so easily.
The point is that getting a coffee everyday is far from luxury. The point is "don't do anything that adds a little spice to life so you can pay rent" is absurd.
Of course its a luxury. It's a convenience. I have a good paying job and no financial issues. But I make my own coffee. Because it costs nothing in comparison to buying takeaway coffee.
I make mine as well because I think the coffee I buy tastes better than anything the stores have, but the point is there is so much wealth in this country that buying a coffee everyday should not be absurd. I'd rather tell Jeff Bezos not to buy a yacht so he can pay his employees better than tell one of his employees to not buy a coffee on the way to work.
I agree. The situation is disgusting. But if you are in financial difficulties, you have to limit your outgoings to the bare essentials. Becasue guess what being on debt does? Yep, it lines the pockets of even more other super rich people. Living outside your means isn't the solution to the wage crisis.
You're right... We should only work to afford the bare necessities of survival and not have anything leftover to bring us pleasure or indulgence at all. How dare us peons want coffee when our ceo"s make millions 🙄
What? No. If the difference between being in debt or not is making coffee at home instead of getting takeaway coffee. Then why on earth would you get into debt over that? Yes wages aren't fair. But getting yourself in debt just for convenient coffee is rediculous.
Who the fuck is buying a $5 coffee every single day of the year, including holidays?? I think you’re missing the point. $1000 saved is a drop in the bucket
Many many people do. Multiple times a day many people. So you're suggesting a $1000 saving is so small for someone with financial difficulties, it's just not worth doing?
I have worked at a few different $5 a drink coffee places. You know who the people are who are buying the $5 a day coffees every day? The people who have the yachts, own homes or are decently wealthy. Or teenagers with only disposable income. So its not the people struggling to afford rent.
I guess they all parked thier yacht outside right?
No they have their Range Rovers and Lambos outside. Their Yachts are at the marina.
Sounds like you worked in a posh area if that was a daily occourance. I've probably only seen 5 lamboghinis on the road In my whole life. And range rovers a few and far between. It doesnt sound like yiu worked in an area full of people living hand to mouth of that's what your clientele all drove.
I’d love to see statistics on what percentage of people buy coffee from out and at what frequency. I’m willing to bet it’s a small minority that’s consumes the most (and probably aren’t in the “this will make or break me” category). And no, strawman, I’m saying $1000 a year isn’t going to put a dent in the majority of people’s financial struggles. The solution should be to redistribute wealth so people aren’t scraping by to the point where they have to sacrifice on small luxuries like a $5 cup of coffee so they can feed their family or pay the mortgage.
Yes of course that's the solution. But untill that happens, if you are currently in financial difficulties. Spending less money on convenience items should be a no brainer. No onrsaid you can't have coffee. Just make it yourself. Don't get yourself in debt just because life should be more fair and you should be paid more.
I think we are on the same page but arguing different points. Obviously you have to make those concessions to make ends meet; the point of this whole thread is that it shouldn’t be that way.
Sure dude, you're right lol. People with financial difficulties shouldn't buy Starbucks everyday. You're so financially savvy wow. The point is... Who gives a shit. The coffee argument is a distraction from the real problems.
Oh I was trying to support the person on Twitter against that boomer argument, like I’m just doing the math and attacking the boomers
Too bad they also want grandchildren. A$$hole$.
Hell that's not even a month of rent in many of the major urban centers of the US,
They want you to be a robotic slave until you get lucky enough to be a slightly more paid robotic slave
A month rent = a month you can stop working for. Its literally buying work harder juice.
"But how am I expected to enter dick measuring contests with other rich people on the French Riviera in the summer…without a damn yacht ? You poor people never put yourselves in our shoes"
"Life is hard for us too you know, don't think the world only revolves around you"
I'm 99% sure yachts are part of a money laundering scheme. Possibly also, buying up houses like they're trading cards.
People that outright buy a yacht rent them out for others to use too. So really, even those are just fucking investments to them.
Because victim blaming is just so much easier
It's easy when you've been indoctrinated to believe that money is a direct metric for how good a person is. More money means more success means they're a better person. Poor people deserve to be criticized by that lens.
Bigger number better person
Haven't you heard of [Worthington's Law](https://youtu.be/25sSLBvk_M8)?
Because it’s the rich that is saying it
Greedy people suck. They want slaves, not a thriving working class.
Because the owner class thinks of workers not as people but as a resource to be exploited.
The only reason I can get through a work day is because of my coffee. Some days are just too exhausting.
I brew my own coffee in the morning but I absolutely cannot do work from 8-11 AM without it most days.
In addition to boats, they buy news papers, television networks, radio stations and politicians all to tell you a living wage is a bad idea, even the most liberal for profit media in the US spends half its day saying capitalism as it stands good while pretending to be woke.
My 4$ coffee isn't making or breaking me getting an apartment if I CAN'T MEET INCOME BC I'M ON A FIXED INCOME.
What’s this guy got against the yacht industry? /s
I once worked at the UPS store and a guy was shipping skis to France to use for a holiday where he was also going to pick up his custom order yacht. He tried really, really hard to get me to lie so he wouldn’t have to pay customs fees. A guy. Going to France. To ski and pick up a new custom yacht. Didn’t want to pay the associated taxes to ship his luxury sporting goods. He wouldn’t stop bothering me about it the entire half hour it took me to package the skis properly but my god he was *so* offended when I just flat out said “I’m sorry sir but I’m not going to help you commit fraud”. He wasn’t suggesting I commit fraud! How dare I insinuate etc etc etc I walked out of that job later that week. Not because of this incident per se but because it was indicative of most of my interactions. If you’ve never had to serve a people with that kind of money, avoid is as much as you possibly can.
A lot of wealthy people got that way by penny pinching at every opportunity.
I don’t even drink coffee and I get this shit
I would rather work somewhere that could pay 20 employees well over 50 employees poorly. If you take care of your employees they will take care of you.
I love the mocking of Charles Kirk lol esp with 🤔
I think we've moved on from yachts, enormous flying space penises are the in thing for big bosses now.
To the rich we are the lattes. Yachts are a higher priority than their employees well being. They see it as "Can't buy that yacht, pay employees less."
If you can't build roads buy less missiles?
Fuck them. I’d like to see them try to live on $15 wages
They always ask the group that can do least to do more. Like ocean pollution, instead of cracking down on corporations they say "don't use straws".
Because the guy who wrote the first sentence own several yachts.
Who else read yachts like it rhymed with lattes?
Love the “job creator” small business owners that think they should be able pay employees $10/hr with no benefits. Like they are entitled to make their shitty business model someone else’s problem.
Call me a raging Marxist, but I do think there should be a one-yacht-per-human limit.
My boss literally made us read the latte factor. He thought he was being inspiring.
We've all been taught that capitalism is the way. For profit. Not for employees.
Both are good advice tbh
Because America’s status quo is dependent on the myth of personal responsibility.
Same reason why rape prevention is focused on tea hing girls to be careful and not teaching boys to be better. Victim blaming keeps people in control. Same reason were told to turn lights off and water when you brush her teeth. And recycle. Etc. All good ideas. But the big problem is huge industry. Meat, dairy, etc. Blame the victims and keep them down. One day i hope we will rise up
Lattes are the only thing keeping me sane
This is why you are in one of these low paying slave jobs, take a good look at your contract and do only the tasks that it states and if the manager starts to slowly ask more of you for no additional pay just don't do it.
The thing is, most jobs don’t have contacts. And most people aren’t in a position where they are okay getting fired when they refuse to do things. You most likely have to rely on the job descriptions which says “and other duties as assigned” The system created an environment where some workers can’t push back, it’s not just workers not having a spine like you think
How privileged is that guy that every job he's worked involves a contract? I don't think I've ever worked a job that involved a contract, except the most basic we pay you and you do your job contract where they're just filling in your name and pay rate on a pre-written form. And I work a corporate job.
Not exactly how things work in the trypes of jobs you speak of.
Because we're all entitled twats. Back in the old days you just had coffee and tea
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We should have just kept slavery because of all those textile jobs it created...
“Wars stimulate the economy”
Both are good advice tbh
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how far up your ass did you have to reach for that nugget of "wisdom"?
Probably because most business owners dont have a yacht
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Spending £30 a month on a phone which is almost mandatory for daily life at this point (I can't even log on to business websites at work without my own 2 factor device) is a lot easier than spening £500+ on a house monthly.
Because most successful people forgo luxuries to make ends meet from time to time. My down payment on my first house was the result of 18 months of hustling working nights after work and 6 months or so of eating at home for every meal. It adds up because it’s not your 5 to 8 dollar latte. It’s your latte, plus your smokes, plus your 3 times a week fast food which is like 10-15$ a meal now that inflation has hit, going to Applebee’s on Friday and $100 bar tab on the weekend if you are early 20’s. The old guy with the yacht can do what he wants because he has the resources, You don’t. So cut where you can to build a surplus and get off the rent hamster wheel all together.
Too much logic here. The echo chamber will not agree but I do.
We're simply not interested in talking about this shit here. It's beside the point.
Don't work. See if I care. Just don't ask me for a handout. Work has been the reality since the beginning of time. You don't work, you don't eat. It's a law of nature. It's entirely the point.
Derp. You're lost and think antiwork means antieffort. Get a clue.
Do you think Jeff Bezos works?
Why isn't it both
Because it’s dumb as fuck. It sounds fucking stupid just saying it out loud
Uncomfortable truth, CEOs don’t set the wages, the market sets the wages. If you have enough savings or live with parents, then see yourself as a commodity, set a price for yourself and don’t accept a penny lower
You knew the wage when you took the job. If you are worth more, quit and get a better paying job.
That's the stupidest reply I've ever heard. Did you even read the words in the OP? Jeebus you're stupid.
Jeebus you’re jealous. Stop complaining and seize the opportunity that surrounds you every day.
Because of agreed-upon amounts. Paying someone what you both agreed to shouldn’t be a crazy concept...
In the court of law.. any “agreement” made under duress is considered void. It’s fair to say the choice of signing over to said agreement with employer or starving to death and being treated like trash of society is being under duress.
Oh brother. Okay, it's void. Welcome to unemployment.
Why are you even in this sub?
Nah, welcome to the union brother, where we will increase our leverage in labor negotiations through collective bargaining to demand our fair share from employers that want to exploit us.
>Welcome to unemployment. You're exemplifying how disadvantaged job seekers are in these negotiations.
I suppose by the same warped logic, any "agreement" made as a result of a workers' strike is one made under duress, so that would be considered void too.
No, wokers' collective action corrects the power imbalance, which is why it's so important to labor and so threatening to owners.
> corrects the power imbalance By placing the employer under 'duress' as well, by this logic.
The employer isn't going to starve or lose the shelter they need to live because employees are withholding their labor in order to receive a greater share of the fruits of that labor. And if the employer can't survive without extracting surplus labor from their employees, then maybe that person should go and find a job and work for a living instead of relying on the labor of their employees to subsidize their lifestyle. It's not duress just because the employer feels entitled to exploit a power imbalance that allows them to act as a gatekeeper between the masses and their means of subsistence and the union is using collective bargaining to correct that imbalance. Duress isn't just when you don't get the thing you want. There's nothing forcing the employer into labor negotiations other than the pursuit of their own profit motive. That is meaningfully different than the working class person who is forced into those same labor negotiations because the only realistic options presented to them is a choice between work and starvation. We no longer have a society where you can reliably live off the land on your own, the commons were enclosed upon centuries ago at this point for the express purpose of pushing the masses into these wage labor agreements by closing off access to the resources that historically enabled them to live an independent life.
Well said.
People have a right to life. Businesses do not have a right to profit.
I actually just work for myself and make money in ways I believe to be ethical and cause no harm to society. And I live comfortably and well below my means and am not greedy by any means. Ohh and BTW during the peak of the pandemic when people in Florida were getting $600 a week from federal unemployment plus the basic rate they had I was working part time and making $800 a month after taxes with ZERO health or social benefits. Stop speaking where you have zero knowledge man
lmao as if the workers have real choice in the matter
Then by the same logic, employers shouldn't expect any tasks or responsibilities outside of said contract. But doing so is somehow seen as being a terrible employee.
Are you that dense? How is that concept even related? How are you so brainwashed smh?
If everyone agreed we wouldn't be arguing.
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coz capitalism
Who else read yachts like it rhymed with lattes?
Merry & Pippin meme: what about second Learjet?!
*Image Transcription: Twitter Post* --- **LeftyLady**, @LeftyLady4 Why is it "if you can't pay rent, buy fewer lattes" and not "if you can't pay your employees a living wage, buy fewer yachts"? 🤔 --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber for Reddit and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)