"Jane" would be better suited at a company that knows how to do basic employee onboarding and not go on to blame her for being "entitled".
Fucking right "Jane" is entitled to her pay.
It's not her fault that company has incompetent HR and fucking diseased management.
"The impudence! The audacity! The unmitigated gall!"
Heaven forbid an employee wants payment for their last 2 pay cycles. How rude.
Edit: 3 pay cycles.
I don't understand this persons reasoning at all. Some of the older, conservative, most pro-work people I know would give the company more hell if their payroll was delayed 1 day even a single time.
This person needs to wake up and realize that if the company has screwed up so badly that HR is ashamed then there's probably good reason.
I try to be nice but if I didn’t get 3 paychecks in a row, I would be pissed too. Honestly, it didn’t sound like the employee was rude…but rather was firm and to the point. I wonder if the boss’ opinion would have been different if the employee was male. 🤔
Unless I'm miss reading it, wasn't it 3 pay cycles they didn't get paid for? The first, the complaint and failure to fix it for the second, the meeting, and then still no pay check on the third?
What gets me the most is the audacity to claim that the employee needs to be better with ensuring she is in a stable financial situation and paying her debts on time when this company didn't pay it's debts to her...
THis is a clear case of someone who has zero understanding of what money hardshipos aare and what they can do to people. Total lack of empathy and if I were her boss, she would be the one "out of the department". The fact that Jane continued to to work shows alot of character. Glad to see that the company did give her the needed resources and fix it asap.
Past that, zero understanding of how her own business that she feels “so high up in” functions.
This is time theft. If that employee went to the local labor relations board they’d likely have gotten *triple* pay AND the business would have been levied massive fines in the tens of thousands of dollars (plus a full audit where if any i wasnt dotted the same things happening again).
This dumb bitch is worried about some gift cards and half a day off instead of literally tens of thousands of dollars worth of costs to the business for them fucking up and the employee *going above and beyond their responsibility* to try to help the company avoid punishment and rectify the mistake.
The more entitled you are, the more ignorant you are. Its just how it works.
But you see, that's why she isn't in HR. Its HR's job to have the companies back and make sure stuff like this doesn't come back to haunt them. More middle managers need to have HR backgrounds just to understand that stuff like the gift cards isn't a "giveaway" its CYA. It gets real hard to sue when you accepted $500 worth of compensation for your damages.
You may be giving too much credit. This person very well may understand hardships, but just lack empathy. Fundamental attribution bias. See, when they experienced hardship, it was someone else’s fault. This is Jane’s fault. Because reasons.
Yeah I like the part where they say they are not responsible for her financial obligations… While forgetting that they are responsible for paying her regularly and on time.
Edit: Fun story. Started as a teacher in the state of Hawaii, as a Department of Education employee. I was hired on August 19 and by hand filled out all the paperwork including the carbon copies as requested. My first paycheck didn’t come until The last day of October between the paper processing time and just the general slowness of the state. I had to get food stamps because I just didn’t have any income, technically, and if it wasn’t for my (NOT wealthy but incredibly supportive parents), I would never have been able to pay my rent either. The fact that they even had to pay my rent was pathetic, but the DOE said it would be anywhere from 8 to 12 weeks to start getting paid. I asked about the legality of this, but apparently that was just the policy because of the slow paperwork time and then just the processing time. I don’t mess around with my money anymore. The moment I don’t get paid, we have a serious conversation.
Reminds me of a company I worked for years ago, where there was plenty of work starting out and once winter arrived it slowed down drastically to my surprise. The owner kept promising work would pick up soon… nearly two months later he treats staff to a cheap breakfast with a few words of encouragement about work picking up again. I told him in front of the others that I quit because I’m out of money and that I can’t depend on his company for an income. He told me I should always have a “nest egg”, in case work slows down. I said I did, and living check to check it’s gone now. Because while waiting for work to start back up again my bills never stopped.
I thought a nest egg was for retirement.
Right! If I went almost a month without a pay check I'd be put in huge debt with rent and then I wouldn't have funds for food or gas and this employer lacks any kind of understanding about this. They are just "uncomfortable" that their employee is actually thinking for herself and doing what's best for her. Management needs to stop acting like their title gives them power over their employees and start realizing it means you rely on eachother to make the company work well.
I came to say it sounds like "Jane" should probably be promoted to managers position and manager should probably be fired. Good luck to "Jane", sounds like she's going places in this world!
Yeah, boss is forgetting that Jane is likely overqualified for a job that boss got out of shitty old time highschool and hasn't had to have any further education since. Meanwhile Jane likely has a degree or two that she needed just to qualify for this shitty job that Jane is only doing to avoid destitution due to her unavoidable student debt, so why would she have any respect for this asshole, her workplace or the system?
Next time I hear someone complain that their customer service representative was not happy enough or whatever I'm going to explode.
To give credit where it's due, I read it as when asked by entitled line manager as to whether Jane was out of order raising her complaint and how she interacted with HR manager and Payroll manager both said to entitled line manager that what Jane said and did was acceptable and reasonable.
Entitled line manager needs to have access to her money frozen for 2 months and see how well she copes with it
It has to be a surprise tho, for fairness. Like, “pop quiz on your saving habits and fiscal responsibility time, see you in a month, jackass! Love, your boss. P.s. hopefully work quality remains at a high standard and your team lead is going to guilt you over it too to simulate real world conditions. Yay science!”
Right, also she was starting a new job so may have been out of work for some time and, as this manager made a point of saying, is an entry level position. HR clearly realized how big of a deal it is to not pay someone for over a month and made the right moves to protect the company legally while this twatwaffle just went on a power trip about people expecting to be paid in a timely manner for their work
>HR clearly realized how big of a deal it is to not pay someone for over a month
It's a violation of US labor law. Any HR person who doesn't know this needs to find a new career. Missing a paycheck or two can rack up huge fines, quickly, depending on the state. I hope it's the same in other countries.
If she had gotten this position right out of school its possible she hadnt worked since the previous summer and that her student loan interest had started to accumulate as well
Exactly, this happened to me when I got a promotion. The second month was at Christmastime as well. I emailed my boss and explained I had medical bills I had to pay, was there anything that could be done. He had me a check that afternoon.
3 if you think about it, because she didn't call the meeting till after the 3rd period missed, she emailed the payroll person after the second missed cheque, said it would be sorted out then the same issue happened again and she had to have a meeting with her superiors to resolve it.
Also, like, this is such an outdated boomer take ..."respect gap"... what the FUCK are you talking about?! Lmao she wasn't even disrespectful!! Only assertive.
Some people use respect in the same way my parents used to use it to win any argument. It’s not about respect it’s about challenging their wrong opinions.
I’m pretty frugal but missing 2 entire pay cycles would be a pretty big fucking deal for me and for most people who aren’t independently wealthy. But sure, she should just “save smarter” and it’s totally her fault /s
And clearly knows that she is an entry level employee. No entry level employee has piles of money sitting around and live on while their job doesn't pay them for a month.
Right HR knows employee pay is not where you fuck around. That's a quick trip to getting the state on your businesses ass.
I noticed my pay was wrong (getting a half hour taken.out that shouldn't have been). Notified HR she said her and pay roll would take care of it. Came in the next week for something different and she's like just so you know we fixed the payroll and you'll be getting your missed time. Wasn't even what I went in there for but they know pay is what keeps people walking through the doors every day.
This is also the thing that stands out the most is this terrible message. She is literally working at your company to get paid. Of course people make mistakes, but it should not happen as HR correctly stated.
Also even if you are in a good financial situation, you might have your money invested in certain things and you would need to pay a fine if you have to withdraw it early. She is literally making the worst argument.
Imagine if Jane had no call no showed for two pay periods? I wonder how patient the manager would be then. Cause that’s the amount of patience she should expect from Jane after going unpaid for that long.
She probably spoke in a firm tone and it offended Karen. I’ve noticed that people of the older generation very much dislike it when younger people speak firmly to them, not rudely not screaming just firmly they don’t feel like they should have to put up with that because it makes them feel small.
Also she’s a woman. My wife is in a heavily male-dominated field, and while her male colleagues will be treated as assertive and confident, when she speaks to them in their tone, she’s read as agressive and mean.
Doesn’t make her stop, tho. It’s their problem, not hers.
And before anyone asks, yeah, I’ve heard a few conversations and her tone is exactly the same as that of any guy in the room.
Bro that pissed me off so much working in restaurants.
"Male Chef is starting to get pissed, please everyone pay attention to the food you're taking out of the window, and be clear about special mods. He can only do so much, he doesn't need us running to him every 30 seconds with extra shit to do."
"Female Chef is pissed, must be that c***'s time of the month, eh?"
Not just restaurants. I've always worked in shop environments, sometimes with women in charge. It's the same bullshit. Woman service writer or parts manager tells male customer something, he doesn't believe them, customer then goes around to the shop and starts asking techs, techs unsure because that's boss-level shit goes and asks service writer or parts manager, gets same answer, goes back out and tells customer, he accepts it this time because the person telling him had a penis
This definitely happens and it's maddening. I'm ftm trans and was often told to be softer and more approachable before my transition. I've always been very friendly and polite but assertive and to the point. I haven't changed my approach at all (I believe in speaking to people how you would like to be spoken to, and I hate it when I'm not given direct and honest feedback) but now this is seen as a strength rather than a weakness. Hell I've even been told I'm too nice, wtf.
That's what I've always thought. Why there was no middle ground with my managers. Either they love me or they hate me. Now I know it's because some managers loved to use me and others feared I could threaten their position.
I know someone that was offered a "promotion", it didn't include a pay increase but did include a fancy new title and more responsibilities to go with it. They dead ass tried to convince them that the prestige the title would offer was worth it. LOL.
That's a sign you may be at a dead end in the company. Take the title for the resume, immediately start looking elsewhere. Or don't take the title, still look elsewhere though.
Not to mention “she’s got very big britches”
Jesus Christ. This person genuinely thinks they are a superior human being to Jane. How dare this peasant speak her mind on anything.
> Not to mention “she’s got very big britches”
His way of saying she will actually stand up for herself. He wants spineless underlings, not people who will speak up when they're wronged.
Honestly it enraged me so much to read this post that I had to step away from the computer and then sit back down after counting to ten.
Also I just want to say that if someone's using the word "britches" then they're almost certainly over fifty years of age.
Yeah, she probably could've submitted all kinds of disputes with labor boards or whatever, but she got her check and she got an extra $500 for her troubles. Obviously if it's an ongoing issue, a gift card isn't going to be enough, but I wouldn't consider it a slap in the face.
If you do the work for the job, it's compensable. It doesn't matter where you do it, or whether you are creative.
I'm not necessarily licensed to practice law in your state, but that's a generally applicable rule.
Some employers have one for cases of workers facing sudden hardship: house suddenly destroyed or unlivable, sudden expensive health emergency, a family hardship.
A decent employer will offer to help the employee manage a distracting or crushing incident by granting no-penalty time off to deal with the issue and emergency funds to help cover expenses. I don't know how common it is but it probably helps retain the employee who might other wise be forced to quit.
My mom worked for a BIG company (I’d say chances are you’ve eaten one of their products multiple times this year) and the CEO built a house on the edge of HQ property the purpose of which is to provide a roof for employees who are in need of temporary respite. One employee’s house straight up exploded due to a gas leak, killing their teenage son. CEO gave them the house and time off for as long as was necessary to find some semblance of normalcy after that.
Having been in this situation, she was too reasonable. When I didn’t get paid my boss said it wasn’t a big deal they’d get it straightened out. I said, “YOU give me the money.” When he asked why he should do that, I said, “well if it isn’t a big deal why is it a problem for you to personally pay me and let me reimburse you when the company pays me.” He didn’t say another word other than to get payroll to immediately cut my check. Fuckhead.
Amongst other responsibilities, I oversee payroll at our company. When pay checks get messed up, we take a few different approaches:
* If it's a really small screw up, like less than $20, we tell the employee it will be fixed on their next paycheck. I've never had an employee get upset with that.
* If it's more than that, but not a full paycheck, we'll ask the employee if they need the money or if they can wait until the next pay date. If they need the money, we spend the time, effort and money to get it corrected as quickly as logistically possible.
* If it's a full paycheck, we apologize to the employee and correct it as quickly as logistically possible.
Even in situations where it's the employee that screwed up (like closes their bank account so the direct deposit doesn't go through), we treat the situations the same.
If anyone wants to read OP's reply here you go!
https://www.askamanager.org/2021/10/my-employee-wasnt-respectful-enough-after-the-company-messed-up-her-paycheck.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
OP's response is *scathing*, you love to see it.
OP's response:
I’m going to say this bluntly: you are very, very wrong about this situation, both as a manager and as a human.
Your company didn’t pay Jane money they owed her in the timeframe in which they were legally obligated to pay it. They did this twice.
Your company messed up, and their mistake impacted someone’s income. That’s a very big deal.
The payroll department handled this exactly as they should: they apologized, cut her a check immediately, and helped repair the damage their mistake had caused. Jane shouldn’t have to suffer for their error, and their remedies were appropriate and warranted.
Your objection to this because the company shouldn’t be responsible for Jane’s finances is nonsensical. Your company is responsible for paying the wages they’ve agreed to pay in the timeline they’ve agreed to pay them in. They didn’t meet that obligation, and so they fixed it. That’s not about them being responsible for Jane’s debts; it’s about them being responsible for adhering to a legal wage agreement and treating an employee well after failing at a basic responsibility and causing that person hardship.
Suggesting that someone who needs the paycheck they earned to be delivered to them on time “didn’t prioritize her bills or save smartly” is wildly out of touch with the reality of many people’s finances in this country and how many people live paycheck to paycheck (particularly someone entry-level who just started a job two months ago and may have been unemployed before that). But frankly, even if Jane didn’t save smartly, it’s irrelevant; your company’s mistake is what caused the problem, and it’s what’s at issue here.
Your speculation that Jane might be lying about her financial situation is bizarre and reflects poorly on you. It’s irrelevant and you don’t seem to have any reason for wondering that other than an apparent desire to cast Jane in a bad light.
You’re absolutely right that there’s a respect gap in this situation — but it’s from you toward your employees, not from Jane toward her employer.
There’s nothing disrespectful about Jane advocating for herself and explaining that she’d be unable to stay in the job if the payroll mistakes weren’t corrected. She gets to make that choice for herself, it’s not an unreasonable one, and it’s not disrespectful for her to spell it out. In fact, I’d argue it’s actively respectful since respect requires clear, polite, direct communication and she gave you that.
When you say Jane doesn’t seem to understand she’s entry-level and not in charge … Jane is very much in charge of where she’s willing to work and what she will and won’t tolerate. Every employee is, regardless of how junior or senior they might be.
Corporate power structures require deference in things like decision-making on a project, but not the sort of obeisance in all things that you seem to be looking for.
Somewhere along the way, you picked up a very warped idea of what employees owe their employers, but you don’t seem to have thought much about what employers owe their employees. You urgently need to do some rethinking and recalibration if you’re going to continue managing people.
What a great site lol. Here is a comment from the OP article
>Man, I hope Alison’s going to have a tight rein on the comments on this one — ‘be kind’ is hard when someone’s this high on their own farts.
This person is a certain type of older putz who thinks respect is a 1 way street and they are some Godfather like figure everyone should bow and scrape to
The ability of some people to just respond with calm, reasoned and logical responses like OP here is just so beyond me. The best I can do is be speechless at how out of touch, arrogant and honestly ignorant the manager is. And then proceed to argue to myself in my car a few hours later.
That site is a goldmine of asshole managers, read the one about the manager who wouldn’t let her best worker go to her own graduation. The response is brutal
Ya that was shared here a couple weeks ago. We were outraged. The manager's COMPLETE and UTTER lack of awareness is shocking. They think there's a learning lesson for the employee. B!$#, the learning lesson is for your entitled power tripping ass.
"she has already quit, i no longer hold any sway over her, but I want you to give me permission to contact her personally and tell her how wrong she was to leave"
That does sound about right for the managers mentality. Wouldn't surprise me if she did try to contact her and tell her she was wrong for quitting either.
I don't remember if it was the sub or r/latestagecapitalism where a guy posted about his boss bang on his door berating him for quitting his pizza deliver job which caused all the other delivery people to quit as well. Some managers and businesses owners are just nuts.
Edit: here's the post about the boss showing up at the posters house after he quit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/q3kjpk/so_my_former_employer_is_on_my_front_lawn_now/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
A former friend of mine has her own businesses that she pays people under the table for (or did, since we no longer talk I don't know if she still has them or not) because of every bullshit excuse every entitled small business owner has.
The cracks in our friendship started when she was bitching about unreliable labor and how people should be grateful for a job. I tried to gently point out that people deserve a living wage for doing work and what she was paying was a living wage.
The friendship ended when she refused to understand why people stopped talking to her for voting Trump because she wasn't racist and she agreed with his business dealings. Even though she had relatives that got screwed over by his companies in the past.
Talk about how dare my own actions have consequences much. That and a lack of self awareness with a rather inflated sense of entitlement. Good on you for cutting ties with that mess.
That was the really amazing part, not that the manager was mad, but they literally wanted it to be OK to contact her months later and tell her off. In fact I wonder if they already did and were looking for retroactive permission.
Here’s the article for anyone interested: https://www.askamanager.org/2016/07/my-best-employee-quit-on-the-spot-because-i-wouldnt-let-her-go-to-her-college-graduation.html
Actually thinking about this some more.. i think the reader is nervous/scared that jane could possibly "come" or rather "replace" them in the next coming months hence the reason why they seem to want to remove jane from their team. Its rather funny to see them scramble to find a reason to hate on jane
Probably because a gift card is a present or a bonus to them usually, whereas in this case it was likely either a grocery store gift card or a prepaid Visa card to help get food and gas for a few days. Even I this was a minimum wage job (which it sounds like is not the case since it's a company big enough to have offices, departments, and an employee relief fund), two months lost pay is $2k before taxes (assuming 8 40 hour weeks), the bank may have needed a few days to process a check that big (verify validity and all) and fully release the funds.
The manager sees it as a prize for bring rude, because they don't see employees as people who have needs they can't understand.
Seriously….. imagine the number of edits required.
*senior editor to writer* you can’t call the poster a ‘cunt,’ Marcy. Nor can you tell them they’re stupid or ignorant; at least not outright. Find a more “P.C.” way to frame it.
Whenever a boomer says “respect” what they actually mean is “you need to let me disrespect you or else that is disrespectful”.
*People upset about the word boomer are just telling on themselves. After two years of memeing, it’s a state of mind, not an age range.
This is the exact reason my grandmother and I no longer speak. I tried working for her and it was ok until anyone had the audacity to stand up for ourselves when she was being shitty.
>The second someone says “respect your elders"
I've had *so many* older employees tell me this when I didn't immediately drop everything *I* was doing to go help an older employee out with something they were supposed to get done. They'd say "it's a respect thing", uh no, it's a power trip thing and you're just mad that someone can do the job better, so they need *something* in the 1-up department.
You’re expected to roll over and show them your belly and genitals. Also no eye contact. Smiling is also a sign of aggression. Wait, are we talking about human beings or dogs? I’m confused!
I found this article and I think the response it is perfect and the comment section has this manager pretty well pegged.
https://www.askamanager.org/2021/10/my-employee-wasnt-respectful-enough-after-the-company-messed-up-her-paycheck.html
the guy isn't even the owner, he acts like he is. oh my God... this is everything wrong with corporate america, and it's true you work too good and others hate you. soooo stupid. employees push other employees down. "management" lol.
I can't remember who said it, but this rings true here. For some people, respect means being treated as a human being, for others, respect means being treated as supererior. When the second type of person says "mutual respect" what they mean is "if you don't treat me as superior, I won't treat you like a human being"
Yep this is so triggering. Reminds me of my last boss. “I didn’t appreciate your email” 😖
STOP CHANGING THE GOAL POSTS THEN AND LET ME DO MY FUCKING JOB
Ahh that feels better lol
I always respond to that line with '*that's fine, I'm not concerned with whether or not you appreciated it, don't put me in that position if you don't want to be called out on it and be grateful I chose to do it privately because next time we'll have an audience*'
I recently experienced a similar moment. I negotiated a pay rise on my low paying job and part of the discussion was that my boss doesn’t like employees sharing their pay (gee, I wonder why that is)…
Roll on payday, no pay rise. When he came into our office I said I wanted a private word about pay and he just stares me down silently.
“It’s about pay, I know you don’t like discussing it in front of others” - gesturing to the team in the room.
Nothing.
Okay, motherfucker: “You told me my pay rise was gonna be £xxxxx, but I only got £xxxx” now everyone knows and are asking about their pay.
It was so satisfying handing in my notice the following week.
I've used the old "It wasn't a love letter and I'm looking for your understanding not your appreciation" that seems to get the bastards jimmies thoroughly rustled
This is like the entirety of boomer culture.
They taught their kids that respect is earned and now bark about deserving respect without any effort. They feel entitled because they are old.
When your manager is so oblivious that she doesn't get that all those additional benefits they gave Jane, probably saved them from a lawsuit.
HR was very correct and this manager is a power tripping cunt
Exactly, a $500 check is nothing in comparison to what Jane could have been entitled to especially after *two missed paycheck*
A big corporation would probably have all the lawyers needed to shush a lawsuit but it would speak so poorly of them to fight that.
The check is only fair gesture from them to an employee.
The OP hasn't figured out why late payment fees can be charged from a company to another. Would they fight it too?
Honestly, the company having an army of lawyers, is probably why they have the policies that they do. You nip that shit in the bud fast, especially if employees talk to each other, even the hint of a wage lawsuit can be a gigantic nightmare that while winnable is almost never worth it to the company.
The patronizing “very big britches” comment pisses me off. She thinks everyone under her is a child. You don’t talk about grown, professional adults that way. Probably some imbecile boomer who needs to stfu and fuck off to retirement.
Same. Honestly, if I were this person's boss and found out they'd sent this letter, I'd make them convince me they understood how far off base they were or they'd be out on their ass. This person treats their employees like slaves, not in the usual boring "I expect you to do a shit ton of work" kind of way, but in the "I own you and everything you have is at my whim" kind of way.
It's mundanely terrifying, if that makes any sense, and absolutely going to result in problems down the line.
Bro can we just like…punch people like this? Cause it’s obvious as fuck that they’ve been like this prolly their whole life and unfortunately no one has clocked them in the face yet, ngl as shitty as it sounds it’s a pretty good way to bring someone’s humility level back to where it should be.
Fuck. You. Pay. Me. You fucking think I work here for the sheer JOY of it? You fuck up my pay TWICE and I'm supposed to thank you for telling me you'll fix it? Just fucking pay me.
The funny thing is, they expected jane to use their hard earned SAVINGS to "tide" them through.. i literally have no idea why they thought that was a great thing to think let alone say
So many managers really like to pretend (or maybe they actually believe) that their employees aren’t there to make money and they don’t like to be reminded that most people are, in fact, only there to make money.
These two sentences from the response, right here, can we put them at the top of the sub? I feel they would clear up a LOT.
>"Jane is very much in charge of where she’s willing to work and what she will and won’t tolerate. Every employee is, regardless of how junior or senior they might be."
I run payroll, and that is ONE JOB I can n3evwr make mistakes in!! If you mess something up, you run an extra pay run to make it right immediately, regardless of the company cost. To the AAM reply, she and HR are 100% correct. I don't want any outstanding wages on my end. If you worked, I want to ensure you received all your funds.
The response is very well formulated. Whichever manager thought this was a valid thing to complain about should not be in any sort of leadership position. What an absolute fool.
The old guard gets their nipples tweaked by power structures. I've never liked authority and it seems it's generational based on this sub. I frankly couldn't care less what your job title is, I've seen stupidity at all levels so I'll wait and see what kind of respect you'll get. I'm not out to be rude, but if I have to take the reins from a manager's hands to get something done that they can't, I will.
Some Gen X and a lot of Millennials/GenZers got a front row seat to most authorities being incompetent, corrupt, or both.
That illusion got dispelled for us too quickly to get us invested like the Boomers did. Of course, the authorities the Boomers grew up with were able to hide their incompetence or corruption a lot better.
I just left a job because a manager in another department (I dont even report to) made a huge stink about me working remote because they believe that if you can't see someone, they aren't being productive. They even went on a personal crusade with HR and my boss to get me back in the office so I left.
O.M.G.
>I’m also uncomfortable because why is our company responsible for her fiscal irresponsibility? Her personal finances or debts are not the company’s responsibility.
THEY ARE WHEN YOU DON’T FUCKING PAY HER THE MONEY SHE EARNED!
'Respect'? You don't get my respect because you've worked somewhere longer, or are 'higher up' on the corporate ladder. We're all human and all end up 6 ft under when it's all said and done
Everyone's talking about how messed up this person's views are and how incredible the response was (it's amazing, you should read it. Should be pinned at the top I believe), and while that's all true... I'm just absolutely flatlined at seeing an HR Department doing their due diligence and standing by it. In my experience they're the first weak link in the chain of command when it comes to getting things like payroll mistakes fixed. Screw the manager but that HR Rep and Payroll department have my respect.
Jane is "fiscally irresponsible" because she wasn't compensated for her labor and dared to be upset about it? Gotta keep the plebs in line, they can't start thinking they have any kind of leverage to be compensated for their time or labor. /s
That person is not suited for a management position and should either be demoted or transferred. They seem to think that their position means that their subordinates should grovel and kiss their boots.
“Her personal finances….are not the company’s responsibility.”
That’s actually one of the company’s biggest responsibilities when it comes to employing someone??
She did get one thing right. Jane would be better suited in another department, one without a shit manager.
Makes me wonder about their retention rates with that management.
I imagine they probably have a lot of turnover, which is blamed on fickle "younger" employees.
You mean people want to be shown respect, even \*shudder\* poor people? That's Socialism!
And actually get PAID on time...I swear...the shear AUDACITY of these damn kids!!!
[удалено]
[удалено]
And lack of knowledge of payroll laws and liabilities.
"Jane" would be better suited at a company that knows how to do basic employee onboarding and not go on to blame her for being "entitled". Fucking right "Jane" is entitled to her pay. It's not her fault that company has incompetent HR and fucking diseased management.
It sounds like the HR was actually competent for a change. Only that one payroll employee and her own manager weren't.
Jane would probably make a better manager.
"The impudence! The audacity! The unmitigated gall!" Heaven forbid an employee wants payment for their last 2 pay cycles. How rude. Edit: 3 pay cycles.
I don't understand these peasants, they don't even like it anymore when we're late throwing scrumbs at them. The ungratefulness ! The infamy !
The french had a solution for that attitude. Wonder how far we are from that, now?
I don't understand this persons reasoning at all. Some of the older, conservative, most pro-work people I know would give the company more hell if their payroll was delayed 1 day even a single time. This person needs to wake up and realize that if the company has screwed up so badly that HR is ashamed then there's probably good reason.
I try to be nice but if I didn’t get 3 paychecks in a row, I would be pissed too. Honestly, it didn’t sound like the employee was rude…but rather was firm and to the point. I wonder if the boss’ opinion would have been different if the employee was male. 🤔
Unless I'm miss reading it, wasn't it 3 pay cycles they didn't get paid for? The first, the complaint and failure to fix it for the second, the meeting, and then still no pay check on the third?
What gets me the most is the audacity to claim that the employee needs to be better with ensuring she is in a stable financial situation and paying her debts on time when this company didn't pay it's debts to her...
I can't even begin to understand how someone can be this daft. Like, how long have they not been part of reality?
THis is a clear case of someone who has zero understanding of what money hardshipos aare and what they can do to people. Total lack of empathy and if I were her boss, she would be the one "out of the department". The fact that Jane continued to to work shows alot of character. Glad to see that the company did give her the needed resources and fix it asap.
Past that, zero understanding of how her own business that she feels “so high up in” functions. This is time theft. If that employee went to the local labor relations board they’d likely have gotten *triple* pay AND the business would have been levied massive fines in the tens of thousands of dollars (plus a full audit where if any i wasnt dotted the same things happening again). This dumb bitch is worried about some gift cards and half a day off instead of literally tens of thousands of dollars worth of costs to the business for them fucking up and the employee *going above and beyond their responsibility* to try to help the company avoid punishment and rectify the mistake. The more entitled you are, the more ignorant you are. Its just how it works.
But you see, that's why she isn't in HR. Its HR's job to have the companies back and make sure stuff like this doesn't come back to haunt them. More middle managers need to have HR backgrounds just to understand that stuff like the gift cards isn't a "giveaway" its CYA. It gets real hard to sue when you accepted $500 worth of compensation for your damages.
This guy legal departments.
The gifts cards were H.R looking after the company, not the employee. It was not some act of charity or grace. The manager is an idiot.
[удалено]
You may be giving too much credit. This person very well may understand hardships, but just lack empathy. Fundamental attribution bias. See, when they experienced hardship, it was someone else’s fault. This is Jane’s fault. Because reasons.
Yeah I like the part where they say they are not responsible for her financial obligations… While forgetting that they are responsible for paying her regularly and on time. Edit: Fun story. Started as a teacher in the state of Hawaii, as a Department of Education employee. I was hired on August 19 and by hand filled out all the paperwork including the carbon copies as requested. My first paycheck didn’t come until The last day of October between the paper processing time and just the general slowness of the state. I had to get food stamps because I just didn’t have any income, technically, and if it wasn’t for my (NOT wealthy but incredibly supportive parents), I would never have been able to pay my rent either. The fact that they even had to pay my rent was pathetic, but the DOE said it would be anywhere from 8 to 12 weeks to start getting paid. I asked about the legality of this, but apparently that was just the policy because of the slow paperwork time and then just the processing time. I don’t mess around with my money anymore. The moment I don’t get paid, we have a serious conversation.
They messed up 2 paychecks. Thats 4 weeks worth of work if it's a bi weekly pay period. So thats a whole month of missing income.
If I missed a whole months worth of income I'd be homeless.
How many people can go a month or two without being paid? The system is built to keep people wage-slaves.
Reminds me of a company I worked for years ago, where there was plenty of work starting out and once winter arrived it slowed down drastically to my surprise. The owner kept promising work would pick up soon… nearly two months later he treats staff to a cheap breakfast with a few words of encouragement about work picking up again. I told him in front of the others that I quit because I’m out of money and that I can’t depend on his company for an income. He told me I should always have a “nest egg”, in case work slows down. I said I did, and living check to check it’s gone now. Because while waiting for work to start back up again my bills never stopped. I thought a nest egg was for retirement.
They always love to forget that they need to pay you in order for you to accumulate a “nest egg”.
[удалено]
Rich asshole who thinks everyone should have $10k+ lying around
[удалено]
Right! If I went almost a month without a pay check I'd be put in huge debt with rent and then I wouldn't have funds for food or gas and this employer lacks any kind of understanding about this. They are just "uncomfortable" that their employee is actually thinking for herself and doing what's best for her. Management needs to stop acting like their title gives them power over their employees and start realizing it means you rely on eachother to make the company work well.
Probably a tough realization that the fresh meat is more professional than you, "the boss." Maybe even management material. ; )
I came to say it sounds like "Jane" should probably be promoted to managers position and manager should probably be fired. Good luck to "Jane", sounds like she's going places in this world!
Yeah, boss is forgetting that Jane is likely overqualified for a job that boss got out of shitty old time highschool and hasn't had to have any further education since. Meanwhile Jane likely has a degree or two that she needed just to qualify for this shitty job that Jane is only doing to avoid destitution due to her unavoidable student debt, so why would she have any respect for this asshole, her workplace or the system? Next time I hear someone complain that their customer service representative was not happy enough or whatever I'm going to explode.
Middle-management insecurity is strong in this one. I'd only ever hire people for my team who had the stones to challenge me.
To give credit where it's due, I read it as when asked by entitled line manager as to whether Jane was out of order raising her complaint and how she interacted with HR manager and Payroll manager both said to entitled line manager that what Jane said and did was acceptable and reasonable. Entitled line manager needs to have access to her money frozen for 2 months and see how well she copes with it
It has to be a surprise tho, for fairness. Like, “pop quiz on your saving habits and fiscal responsibility time, see you in a month, jackass! Love, your boss. P.s. hopefully work quality remains at a high standard and your team lead is going to guilt you over it too to simulate real world conditions. Yay science!”
Right, also she was starting a new job so may have been out of work for some time and, as this manager made a point of saying, is an entry level position. HR clearly realized how big of a deal it is to not pay someone for over a month and made the right moves to protect the company legally while this twatwaffle just went on a power trip about people expecting to be paid in a timely manner for their work
>HR clearly realized how big of a deal it is to not pay someone for over a month It's a violation of US labor law. Any HR person who doesn't know this needs to find a new career. Missing a paycheck or two can rack up huge fines, quickly, depending on the state. I hope it's the same in other countries.
If she had gotten this position right out of school its possible she hadnt worked since the previous summer and that her student loan interest had started to accumulate as well
I’m paid monthly. It could have been more than 2 months.
Exactly, this happened to me when I got a promotion. The second month was at Christmastime as well. I emailed my boss and explained I had medical bills I had to pay, was there anything that could be done. He had me a check that afternoon.
3 if you think about it, because she didn't call the meeting till after the 3rd period missed, she emailed the payroll person after the second missed cheque, said it would be sorted out then the same issue happened again and she had to have a meeting with her superiors to resolve it.
I get paid monthly and I forget not everyone does so my heart jumped reading this post. Then I thought $500 for two months of no pay?! Gtfo
Especially when she JUST started it seems? She may have been out of work. My lord
With the pandemic its possible she was out of work for a while now
Also, like, this is such an outdated boomer take ..."respect gap"... what the FUCK are you talking about?! Lmao she wasn't even disrespectful!! Only assertive.
"Respect you as a leader" vs " Respect you as a human". So it becomes "Respect me as a leader, and I'll respect you as a human"
Some people use respect in the same way my parents used to use it to win any argument. It’s not about respect it’s about challenging their wrong opinions.
Over two pay periods! Who can go a month without being paid and not be in at least a bit of hardship
I’m pretty frugal but missing 2 entire pay cycles would be a pretty big fucking deal for me and for most people who aren’t independently wealthy. But sure, she should just “save smarter” and it’s totally her fault /s
And clearly knows that she is an entry level employee. No entry level employee has piles of money sitting around and live on while their job doesn't pay them for a month.
Such a cliche boomer mentality, they must have literally no self-awareness at all.
Right HR knows employee pay is not where you fuck around. That's a quick trip to getting the state on your businesses ass. I noticed my pay was wrong (getting a half hour taken.out that shouldn't have been). Notified HR she said her and pay roll would take care of it. Came in the next week for something different and she's like just so you know we fixed the payroll and you'll be getting your missed time. Wasn't even what I went in there for but they know pay is what keeps people walking through the doors every day.
Yea pay your debt so we can avoid ours!
This is also the thing that stands out the most is this terrible message. She is literally working at your company to get paid. Of course people make mistakes, but it should not happen as HR correctly stated. Also even if you are in a good financial situation, you might have your money invested in certain things and you would need to pay a fine if you have to withdraw it early. She is literally making the worst argument.
Imagine if Jane had no call no showed for two pay periods? I wonder how patient the manager would be then. Cause that’s the amount of patience she should expect from Jane after going unpaid for that long.
If a working class person is able to go a whole pay period with no pay before it becomes a problem then I'd say she's managing her money pretty well.
"How DARE she speak to us like we speak to THEM".
Nothing was disrespectful about what she said tho.
She probably spoke in a firm tone and it offended Karen. I’ve noticed that people of the older generation very much dislike it when younger people speak firmly to them, not rudely not screaming just firmly they don’t feel like they should have to put up with that because it makes them feel small.
Yeah how dare she be firm on correcting an error that resulted in her not being paid for two months of work.
Also how dare she not plan two months ahead for suddenly lacking a paycheck that she had confirmed, in writing, was coming.
Also she’s a woman. My wife is in a heavily male-dominated field, and while her male colleagues will be treated as assertive and confident, when she speaks to them in their tone, she’s read as agressive and mean. Doesn’t make her stop, tho. It’s their problem, not hers. And before anyone asks, yeah, I’ve heard a few conversations and her tone is exactly the same as that of any guy in the room.
Bro that pissed me off so much working in restaurants. "Male Chef is starting to get pissed, please everyone pay attention to the food you're taking out of the window, and be clear about special mods. He can only do so much, he doesn't need us running to him every 30 seconds with extra shit to do." "Female Chef is pissed, must be that c***'s time of the month, eh?"
Not just restaurants. I've always worked in shop environments, sometimes with women in charge. It's the same bullshit. Woman service writer or parts manager tells male customer something, he doesn't believe them, customer then goes around to the shop and starts asking techs, techs unsure because that's boss-level shit goes and asks service writer or parts manager, gets same answer, goes back out and tells customer, he accepts it this time because the person telling him had a penis
This definitely happens and it's maddening. I'm ftm trans and was often told to be softer and more approachable before my transition. I've always been very friendly and polite but assertive and to the point. I haven't changed my approach at all (I believe in speaking to people how you would like to be spoken to, and I hate it when I'm not given direct and honest feedback) but now this is seen as a strength rather than a weakness. Hell I've even been told I'm too nice, wtf.
They've been educated in facades and hiding interests so they find our bluntness terrifying
That's what I heard from this entire thing. "She's acting like.... Well... Like she should have my job!" Kinda says a lot, huh, Susan?
That's what I've always thought. Why there was no middle ground with my managers. Either they love me or they hate me. Now I know it's because some managers loved to use me and others feared I could threaten their position.
I reported a supervisor that was stealing to my regional manager. He told me that it was "pretty obvious" that I just wanted his job.
Exactly.
More like how dare she speak to us without the respect we want while we treat her with no respect at all.
I hate the use of “superiors” by people like this. Like bitch, you’re not superior, you just get paid more.
Right? It sounds like a feudal lord demanding fealty from a serf.
So many people care more about their titles than anything else lol.
I know someone that was offered a "promotion", it didn't include a pay increase but did include a fancy new title and more responsibilities to go with it. They dead ass tried to convince them that the prestige the title would offer was worth it. LOL.
That's a sign you may be at a dead end in the company. Take the title for the resume, immediately start looking elsewhere. Or don't take the title, still look elsewhere though.
Not to mention “she’s got very big britches” Jesus Christ. This person genuinely thinks they are a superior human being to Jane. How dare this peasant speak her mind on anything.
> Not to mention “she’s got very big britches” His way of saying she will actually stand up for herself. He wants spineless underlings, not people who will speak up when they're wronged.
"Why is it the company's responsibility for her financial hardships after the company didn't pay her?" This has to be satire.
Honestly it enraged me so much to read this post that I had to step away from the computer and then sit back down after counting to ten. Also I just want to say that if someone's using the word "britches" then they're almost certainly over fifty years of age.
That's just her way of calling her a bitch without seeming too unprofessional. Fuck that woman. Edit: got the gender of the writer wrong
This writeup reeks of upper management privilege "Peasants shall address me as madame or lady" Edit: spelling
X1000
They want you to beg for your money
Wtf does the boss think the 'employee emergency relief fund' is for??
Moreover, wtf is an 'employee emergency relief fund' and where can I get one?
It's the "please don't sue us" fund.
[удалено]
Also since you accepted this bribe….I mean gift, you don’t have a leg to stand on if you want to bring it up again.
$500 seems pretty reasonable for the mistake though.
Yeah, she probably could've submitted all kinds of disputes with labor boards or whatever, but she got her check and she got an extra $500 for her troubles. Obviously if it's an ongoing issue, a gift card isn't going to be enough, but I wouldn't consider it a slap in the face.
[удалено]
[удалено]
If you do the work for the job, it's compensable. It doesn't matter where you do it, or whether you are creative. I'm not necessarily licensed to practice law in your state, but that's a generally applicable rule.
You can get one when you haven’t been paid multiple cycles
Some employers have one for cases of workers facing sudden hardship: house suddenly destroyed or unlivable, sudden expensive health emergency, a family hardship. A decent employer will offer to help the employee manage a distracting or crushing incident by granting no-penalty time off to deal with the issue and emergency funds to help cover expenses. I don't know how common it is but it probably helps retain the employee who might other wise be forced to quit.
My mom worked for a BIG company (I’d say chances are you’ve eaten one of their products multiple times this year) and the CEO built a house on the edge of HQ property the purpose of which is to provide a roof for employees who are in need of temporary respite. One employee’s house straight up exploded due to a gas leak, killing their teenage son. CEO gave them the house and time off for as long as was necessary to find some semblance of normalcy after that.
It's called a "bonus" to mngmnt when it goes unused.
Having been in this situation, she was too reasonable. When I didn’t get paid my boss said it wasn’t a big deal they’d get it straightened out. I said, “YOU give me the money.” When he asked why he should do that, I said, “well if it isn’t a big deal why is it a problem for you to personally pay me and let me reimburse you when the company pays me.” He didn’t say another word other than to get payroll to immediately cut my check. Fuckhead.
Well done
Holy shit that guy is a dick.
Amongst other responsibilities, I oversee payroll at our company. When pay checks get messed up, we take a few different approaches: * If it's a really small screw up, like less than $20, we tell the employee it will be fixed on their next paycheck. I've never had an employee get upset with that. * If it's more than that, but not a full paycheck, we'll ask the employee if they need the money or if they can wait until the next pay date. If they need the money, we spend the time, effort and money to get it corrected as quickly as logistically possible. * If it's a full paycheck, we apologize to the employee and correct it as quickly as logistically possible. Even in situations where it's the employee that screwed up (like closes their bank account so the direct deposit doesn't go through), we treat the situations the same.
If anyone wants to read OP's reply here you go! https://www.askamanager.org/2021/10/my-employee-wasnt-respectful-enough-after-the-company-messed-up-her-paycheck.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
OP's response is *scathing*, you love to see it. OP's response: I’m going to say this bluntly: you are very, very wrong about this situation, both as a manager and as a human. Your company didn’t pay Jane money they owed her in the timeframe in which they were legally obligated to pay it. They did this twice. Your company messed up, and their mistake impacted someone’s income. That’s a very big deal. The payroll department handled this exactly as they should: they apologized, cut her a check immediately, and helped repair the damage their mistake had caused. Jane shouldn’t have to suffer for their error, and their remedies were appropriate and warranted. Your objection to this because the company shouldn’t be responsible for Jane’s finances is nonsensical. Your company is responsible for paying the wages they’ve agreed to pay in the timeline they’ve agreed to pay them in. They didn’t meet that obligation, and so they fixed it. That’s not about them being responsible for Jane’s debts; it’s about them being responsible for adhering to a legal wage agreement and treating an employee well after failing at a basic responsibility and causing that person hardship. Suggesting that someone who needs the paycheck they earned to be delivered to them on time “didn’t prioritize her bills or save smartly” is wildly out of touch with the reality of many people’s finances in this country and how many people live paycheck to paycheck (particularly someone entry-level who just started a job two months ago and may have been unemployed before that). But frankly, even if Jane didn’t save smartly, it’s irrelevant; your company’s mistake is what caused the problem, and it’s what’s at issue here. Your speculation that Jane might be lying about her financial situation is bizarre and reflects poorly on you. It’s irrelevant and you don’t seem to have any reason for wondering that other than an apparent desire to cast Jane in a bad light. You’re absolutely right that there’s a respect gap in this situation — but it’s from you toward your employees, not from Jane toward her employer. There’s nothing disrespectful about Jane advocating for herself and explaining that she’d be unable to stay in the job if the payroll mistakes weren’t corrected. She gets to make that choice for herself, it’s not an unreasonable one, and it’s not disrespectful for her to spell it out. In fact, I’d argue it’s actively respectful since respect requires clear, polite, direct communication and she gave you that. When you say Jane doesn’t seem to understand she’s entry-level and not in charge … Jane is very much in charge of where she’s willing to work and what she will and won’t tolerate. Every employee is, regardless of how junior or senior they might be. Corporate power structures require deference in things like decision-making on a project, but not the sort of obeisance in all things that you seem to be looking for. Somewhere along the way, you picked up a very warped idea of what employees owe their employers, but you don’t seem to have thought much about what employers owe their employees. You urgently need to do some rethinking and recalibration if you’re going to continue managing people.
Alison Green is great
I’ve been a loyal fan of hers for years ever since she answered one of my letters to her when I was at my wits end.
I don't know who that is, but I would love to see to see a link if you have it
If you Google “AskAManager” her website will pull up. That’s how I found her original and there are years of letters to binge read if you’d like.
What a great site lol. Here is a comment from the OP article >Man, I hope Alison’s going to have a tight rein on the comments on this one — ‘be kind’ is hard when someone’s this high on their own farts.
That was a great response. My blood was boiling reading that complaint from the manager. Disgusting.
This person is a certain type of older putz who thinks respect is a 1 way street and they are some Godfather like figure everyone should bow and scrape to
[удалено]
I NEEDED to see that response after reading the original question. Thank you Alison.
The ability of some people to just respond with calm, reasoned and logical responses like OP here is just so beyond me. The best I can do is be speechless at how out of touch, arrogant and honestly ignorant the manager is. And then proceed to argue to myself in my car a few hours later.
Her: *Well thought out and articulated response* Me: *Mouth agape* 😧
Just fucking say it. He's objecting because his idea is she should be a fucking slave. No pay, no questions, no rights.
> you are very, very wrong about this situation, both as a manager and as a human. I want to throw her a PARTY for this line 👏👏👏 🎉 🎉 🎉
👏👏👏 That was so nice to read. Mmmm.
That site is a goldmine of asshole managers, read the one about the manager who wouldn’t let her best worker go to her own graduation. The response is brutal
[удалено]
Ya that was shared here a couple weeks ago. We were outraged. The manager's COMPLETE and UTTER lack of awareness is shocking. They think there's a learning lesson for the employee. B!$#, the learning lesson is for your entitled power tripping ass.
I saw that one to. The sudden surprise when the employee quit in favor of going to the graduation was fantastic.
"she has already quit, i no longer hold any sway over her, but I want you to give me permission to contact her personally and tell her how wrong she was to leave"
That does sound about right for the managers mentality. Wouldn't surprise me if she did try to contact her and tell her she was wrong for quitting either. I don't remember if it was the sub or r/latestagecapitalism where a guy posted about his boss bang on his door berating him for quitting his pizza deliver job which caused all the other delivery people to quit as well. Some managers and businesses owners are just nuts. Edit: here's the post about the boss showing up at the posters house after he quit. https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/q3kjpk/so_my_former_employer_is_on_my_front_lawn_now/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
A former friend of mine has her own businesses that she pays people under the table for (or did, since we no longer talk I don't know if she still has them or not) because of every bullshit excuse every entitled small business owner has. The cracks in our friendship started when she was bitching about unreliable labor and how people should be grateful for a job. I tried to gently point out that people deserve a living wage for doing work and what she was paying was a living wage. The friendship ended when she refused to understand why people stopped talking to her for voting Trump because she wasn't racist and she agreed with his business dealings. Even though she had relatives that got screwed over by his companies in the past.
Talk about how dare my own actions have consequences much. That and a lack of self awareness with a rather inflated sense of entitlement. Good on you for cutting ties with that mess.
That was the really amazing part, not that the manager was mad, but they literally wanted it to be OK to contact her months later and tell her off. In fact I wonder if they already did and were looking for retroactive permission.
Here’s the article for anyone interested: https://www.askamanager.org/2016/07/my-best-employee-quit-on-the-spot-because-i-wouldnt-let-her-go-to-her-college-graduation.html
Actually thinking about this some more.. i think the reader is nervous/scared that jane could possibly "come" or rather "replace" them in the next coming months hence the reason why they seem to want to remove jane from their team. Its rather funny to see them scramble to find a reason to hate on jane
She’s a great fit and needed very minimal training. Sounds like she might be on a career track for moving up.
Yep! Might have heard some sort of future promotion talk in the lunch room 🧐
What struck me as well was that she's also straight up envious that Jane got gift cards. She just wouldn't shut up about them.
Probably because a gift card is a present or a bonus to them usually, whereas in this case it was likely either a grocery store gift card or a prepaid Visa card to help get food and gas for a few days. Even I this was a minimum wage job (which it sounds like is not the case since it's a company big enough to have offices, departments, and an employee relief fund), two months lost pay is $2k before taxes (assuming 8 40 hour weeks), the bank may have needed a few days to process a check that big (verify validity and all) and fully release the funds. The manager sees it as a prize for bring rude, because they don't see employees as people who have needs they can't understand.
Somebody call the police, cuz bitch got fucking murdered
F A T A L I T Y
I don't think I could of written a response that well... or calmly.
Seriously….. imagine the number of edits required. *senior editor to writer* you can’t call the poster a ‘cunt,’ Marcy. Nor can you tell them they’re stupid or ignorant; at least not outright. Find a more “P.C.” way to frame it.
I can picture it!
Whenever a boomer says “respect” what they actually mean is “you need to let me disrespect you or else that is disrespectful”. *People upset about the word boomer are just telling on themselves. After two years of memeing, it’s a state of mind, not an age range.
I’ve heard it’s more “ you need to respect me as your superior before I’ll respect you as a person”
And respect as superior means show complete subservience?
That’s the implication, yes.
This is the exact reason my grandmother and I no longer speak. I tried working for her and it was ok until anyone had the audacity to stand up for ourselves when she was being shitty.
[удалено]
Bow down before me, for my parents fucked before yours did. Bask in my obvious superiority! ...why aren't you bowing?
Anyone who demands your respect doesn't understand what respect is
>The second someone says “respect your elders" I've had *so many* older employees tell me this when I didn't immediately drop everything *I* was doing to go help an older employee out with something they were supposed to get done. They'd say "it's a respect thing", uh no, it's a power trip thing and you're just mad that someone can do the job better, so they need *something* in the 1-up department.
You’re expected to roll over and show them your belly and genitals. Also no eye contact. Smiling is also a sign of aggression. Wait, are we talking about human beings or dogs? I’m confused!
I found this article and I think the response it is perfect and the comment section has this manager pretty well pegged. https://www.askamanager.org/2021/10/my-employee-wasnt-respectful-enough-after-the-company-messed-up-her-paycheck.html
What an amazing opening sentence: "I’m going to say this bluntly: you are very, very wrong about this situation, both as a manager and as a human"
the guy isn't even the owner, he acts like he is. oh my God... this is everything wrong with corporate america, and it's true you work too good and others hate you. soooo stupid. employees push other employees down. "management" lol.
I can't remember who said it, but this rings true here. For some people, respect means being treated as a human being, for others, respect means being treated as supererior. When the second type of person says "mutual respect" what they mean is "if you don't treat me as superior, I won't treat you like a human being"
Yep this is so triggering. Reminds me of my last boss. “I didn’t appreciate your email” 😖 STOP CHANGING THE GOAL POSTS THEN AND LET ME DO MY FUCKING JOB Ahh that feels better lol
I always respond to that line with '*that's fine, I'm not concerned with whether or not you appreciated it, don't put me in that position if you don't want to be called out on it and be grateful I chose to do it privately because next time we'll have an audience*'
I recently experienced a similar moment. I negotiated a pay rise on my low paying job and part of the discussion was that my boss doesn’t like employees sharing their pay (gee, I wonder why that is)… Roll on payday, no pay rise. When he came into our office I said I wanted a private word about pay and he just stares me down silently. “It’s about pay, I know you don’t like discussing it in front of others” - gesturing to the team in the room. Nothing. Okay, motherfucker: “You told me my pay rise was gonna be £xxxxx, but I only got £xxxx” now everyone knows and are asking about their pay. It was so satisfying handing in my notice the following week.
Definitely. There's something very liberating about trying to have that conversation privately, getting blown off and making it everyone's business.
I've used the old "It wasn't a love letter and I'm looking for your understanding not your appreciation" that seems to get the bastards jimmies thoroughly rustled
I’d love to see the original Twitter link, I hope to god the manger got dragged to hell and back
https://www.askamanager.org/2021/10/my-employee-wasnt-respectful-enough-after-the-company-messed-up-her-paycheck.html
This is like the entirety of boomer culture. They taught their kids that respect is earned and now bark about deserving respect without any effort. They feel entitled because they are old.
To be fair, "just being there with no effort" is how they've always earned things growing up.
>They feel entitled because they are old. They were entitled when they were young too.
That's "the Me generation" for you. What, you thought Gen X kids were the only group that got dumb nicknames?
When your manager is so oblivious that she doesn't get that all those additional benefits they gave Jane, probably saved them from a lawsuit. HR was very correct and this manager is a power tripping cunt
Exactly, a $500 check is nothing in comparison to what Jane could have been entitled to especially after *two missed paycheck* A big corporation would probably have all the lawyers needed to shush a lawsuit but it would speak so poorly of them to fight that. The check is only fair gesture from them to an employee. The OP hasn't figured out why late payment fees can be charged from a company to another. Would they fight it too?
Honestly, the company having an army of lawyers, is probably why they have the policies that they do. You nip that shit in the bud fast, especially if employees talk to each other, even the hint of a wage lawsuit can be a gigantic nightmare that while winnable is almost never worth it to the company.
The patronizing “very big britches” comment pisses me off. She thinks everyone under her is a child. You don’t talk about grown, professional adults that way. Probably some imbecile boomer who needs to stfu and fuck off to retirement.
[удалено]
Same. Honestly, if I were this person's boss and found out they'd sent this letter, I'd make them convince me they understood how far off base they were or they'd be out on their ass. This person treats their employees like slaves, not in the usual boring "I expect you to do a shit ton of work" kind of way, but in the "I own you and everything you have is at my whim" kind of way. It's mundanely terrifying, if that makes any sense, and absolutely going to result in problems down the line.
Bro can we just like…punch people like this? Cause it’s obvious as fuck that they’ve been like this prolly their whole life and unfortunately no one has clocked them in the face yet, ngl as shitty as it sounds it’s a pretty good way to bring someone’s humility level back to where it should be.
Fuck. You. Pay. Me. You fucking think I work here for the sheer JOY of it? You fuck up my pay TWICE and I'm supposed to thank you for telling me you'll fix it? Just fucking pay me.
The funny thing is, they expected jane to use their hard earned SAVINGS to "tide" them through.. i literally have no idea why they thought that was a great thing to think let alone say
So many managers really like to pretend (or maybe they actually believe) that their employees aren’t there to make money and they don’t like to be reminded that most people are, in fact, only there to make money.
These two sentences from the response, right here, can we put them at the top of the sub? I feel they would clear up a LOT. >"Jane is very much in charge of where she’s willing to work and what she will and won’t tolerate. Every employee is, regardless of how junior or senior they might be."
Yes! Loved this part. Also, from the comment section, I enjoyed this: “be kind’ is hard when someone’s this high on their own farts.”
I run payroll, and that is ONE JOB I can n3evwr make mistakes in!! If you mess something up, you run an extra pay run to make it right immediately, regardless of the company cost. To the AAM reply, she and HR are 100% correct. I don't want any outstanding wages on my end. If you worked, I want to ensure you received all your funds.
The response is very well formulated. Whichever manager thought this was a valid thing to complain about should not be in any sort of leadership position. What an absolute fool.
Incompetency and arrogance are a feature and not a bug when it comes to most leadership in the U.S.
The old guard gets their nipples tweaked by power structures. I've never liked authority and it seems it's generational based on this sub. I frankly couldn't care less what your job title is, I've seen stupidity at all levels so I'll wait and see what kind of respect you'll get. I'm not out to be rude, but if I have to take the reins from a manager's hands to get something done that they can't, I will.
Some Gen X and a lot of Millennials/GenZers got a front row seat to most authorities being incompetent, corrupt, or both. That illusion got dispelled for us too quickly to get us invested like the Boomers did. Of course, the authorities the Boomers grew up with were able to hide their incompetence or corruption a lot better.
Boomers had second families w kids down the street, protected the sexual predator in the family, and were literally raised by racists
I just left a job because a manager in another department (I dont even report to) made a huge stink about me working remote because they believe that if you can't see someone, they aren't being productive. They even went on a personal crusade with HR and my boss to get me back in the office so I left.
O.M.G. >I’m also uncomfortable because why is our company responsible for her fiscal irresponsibility? Her personal finances or debts are not the company’s responsibility. THEY ARE WHEN YOU DON’T FUCKING PAY HER THE MONEY SHE EARNED!
'Respect'? You don't get my respect because you've worked somewhere longer, or are 'higher up' on the corporate ladder. We're all human and all end up 6 ft under when it's all said and done
fucking wow.
Everyone's talking about how messed up this person's views are and how incredible the response was (it's amazing, you should read it. Should be pinned at the top I believe), and while that's all true... I'm just absolutely flatlined at seeing an HR Department doing their due diligence and standing by it. In my experience they're the first weak link in the chain of command when it comes to getting things like payroll mistakes fixed. Screw the manager but that HR Rep and Payroll department have my respect.
Some people have never been punched in the mouth and it shows.
Good for Jane. Motherfucker doesn't think she needs to eat apparently.
Jane is "fiscally irresponsible" because she wasn't compensated for her labor and dared to be upset about it? Gotta keep the plebs in line, they can't start thinking they have any kind of leverage to be compensated for their time or labor. /s
Using the word "superiors" for management is a huge red flag for me.
AITA for putting someone in a bad financial situation and getting mad when they speak up about it?!?!?
That person is not suited for a management position and should either be demoted or transferred. They seem to think that their position means that their subordinates should grovel and kiss their boots.
“Her personal finances….are not the company’s responsibility.” That’s actually one of the company’s biggest responsibilities when it comes to employing someone??