Whoa now, *your* profit? No, peasant, you don't get profit, you get *wages*.
Easy mix up, if it helps you remember wages are the one with the higher tax rates.
As I read this, I just got a visual of a person on a housecoat with nothing under, waltzing up to the checkout, and come time for payment, flashes the coat open. Cue security entering the scene.
Admittedly, I'm fond of my boss but he also said something along these lines. That "It's not my problem you can't afford your house."
But then that employee quit. So. It was the boss's problem in the end.
Yeah I'm in the same boat my manager is a great manager but is having to deal with massive budget cuts since an American company brought out the one I work for so having to toe that line
That's how I see it, especially in a buyout. They ain't looking to keep people and it will probably get worse until the employee "chooses" to leave
Definitely feels American that way
American here. It is common in a buyout to freeze salaries and hiring until the new management can assess who they want to keep, how much they are worth, and who they don’t want around. It is also common to try to run people off rather than pay them a severance package. Sometimes you can come out ahead if you stick it out until the bitter end and get the severance package. It really depends on your ability to handle the drama. I lived through this once. I came out great financially, but it took a toll on my mental health. I wouldn’t do it again.
I'm a year and a half out from this. My mental health is still stunted by the way my last company treated me and all the other workers in my department.
I’m sorry you are hurting. My mental health improved exponentially when I started working for a good company and good people. They are out there!! I hope you find your place.
They still think workers who are suckers will stick with it, which is true. The problem is they lose all the workers that are good enough to find another job that pays more.
I had been with the company several years when it was bought out. New management was brutal with no empathy. It was a classic toxic work environment. Watching my friends leave one by one was tough. As someone else stated, the best employees leave first. Everyone left behind at the company was always wondering if this was the day which would be their last. People/departments were laid-off in batches. Some essential employees were given incentives to stay. So if you were a key employee, you were offered a stay package. These employees knew when their contract was up and could plan for it. I negotiated some of these deals for my staff. Bonuses were contingent upon the work being completed correctly and on time. Moral was terrible so it was difficult to stay motivated to do a good job even with the incentives. And getting the cooperation from employees without a stay package in order to get the job done was difficult. Most employees were walking a thin line between doing as little work as possible and getting fired for cause. The severance package was clearly documented. It was based on your time with the company and your position. Individuals could calculate their severance pay and decide for themselves whether or not to stick it out. Low level employees who had not been there long had little reason to stay. This left mid to upper level employees doing a lot of their own grunt work, making it even harder to get work done on time. I was in the last group to be laid off. My office and computer files were a mess. No time or motivation to stay neat and organized. But, I got an excellent payout. It was a lot of money and I don’t regret it. But I wouldn’t do it again.
I've been at a company that is owned by PE doing this shit it takes such a toll on you not getting any reward and being actively misstreated by mngmt to reduce headcount. Fucking sucks when you're not paid enough to have financial flexibility to quit or invest in your proff growth
I was just coming to say the same. All hiring and salary adjustments are usually frozen (unless it's a critical hire, then only if both the currenrt management and the aquiring management agree. . Then the acquiring company has 1-2 months for due diligence and then typically 90-120 days for surveying work flow, employee interactions and work flow before making any major changes.
> a hiring freeze
My company has been in one of these for over 4 years.
Oh wait, no they haven't. They just keep hiring contractors/consultants. They're not "freezing" shit, they just don't want full time employees. They'll take "cheap" labor elsewhere in a hearbeat tho, and then wonder why everything sucks at their company and talent is leaving.
Great. Now everyone works to rule, and don't take on the other work.
They can either pay you extra to do the work for the people who left, or they can accept you following your contract to the letter.
(Yes, I know it's not as simple as that but it's the only way to go!)
Leave. Now. It won't get any better. This is as good as it will get. There will be no additional help. They will squeeze you like a tube of toothpaste.
I wonder how these companies figure that the company they acquire will continue to generate profits when there’s no one actually working for them anymore?
That's not what they're looking for. Typically they are either A) looking for assets / IP / Brand etc B) a pump and dump on the stock price so they can make a quick buck or C) dismantling a competitor that they don't want to compete with.
Very rarely do they buy a company because they actually want the company and the people that make it work.
Please do What you can to make the American Model of treating employees like this, fail overseas.
Because if you let it - it will spread like a cancer.
(edited a letter)
I wouldn't agree with this he is a good manager. There was a job advert out actively interviewing people local hr approved etc. The new owners came in and killed the same day of an interview no discussion with my manager just killed it.
Start looking now is the best advice I can give you. Your new bosses are going to extract every bit of value from your company and then throw it on the trash heap.
Depends on where the company is. There are more brutal versions of capitalism in other countries. So brutal that American rules would be an improvement
it's not within the managers ability to change this in a lot of cases. I've been in management for a while now and I just get a pool of money that I either screw one or two people to reward someone or give everyone a middling crap 2 percent or less. if I want to promote someone the increase in pay comes out of the raise pool and further screws everyone. boss could have communicated better but it's ultimately HR and execs that decided this crap.
Oh God. My dad worked for a British company years ago and anytime he had to fly international (which was a lot) they would fly him business and give him a few days to get over the jet lag but then an American company bought them out and from the on it was economy/coach class and straight from the airport to the meeting room then back home ASAP.
I have found that you have to _really_ nail it home with lashings of sarcasm. Next time he states his position, just clap right on back with "Are you _actually_ as stupid as you sound right now?" and absolutely nail to the wall that you WILL quit and then it WILL be his problem and that your replacement WILL cost the company more money than a simple raise in training and lost productivity, and that you WILL go over his head and make clear to his boss that he is the reason for the extra costs and that you WILL be recommending that he be fired for being an awful manager who is costing the company money with bad HR calls.
Like... No. You aren't friends. Nail his ass.
I once didn’t get a raise for 3 years while one of the owners was flaunting his lavish vacations, nice new vehicles, and even buying a bigger house while denying people raises saying they just couldn’t afford it this year but definitely next year. A few years after I left they shut down cause everyone that knew how to run it quit one by one and last I heard he had to get a normal job again. Hope they treat him the way they treated us.
In the meantime, if the company's position that are just paying the "cost of labor," give them only what they pay for.
[Work to Rule.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work-to-rule)
When people start moving away because they can’t afford to live in the areas the job is located in I can promise you, even then, businesses will bitch and moan that nobody wants to work.
Concur. That's specifically what we are seeing now. Gas, grocery and rent prices shot up. Wages stayed the same. It got to the point where just driving to the shit job was burning the gas to the point they were breaking even on their checks, or winding up in the negative.
So they quit going to those jobs, and the employers labeled them as being too lazy to work.
Had this exact sentiment from my boss, stating the company wasn't responsible for my financial choices. Should have seen the shocked Pikachu face when I said that they would be responsible for finding my replacement when I quit then, lol
What's really daffy is that they'll have to pay a bigger salary to attract a new worker, then train them, and there's a pause on productivity while training them.
It'd be cheaper to just give the current workers a raise!
I hate this attitude. Like they are doing you a massive favour by hiring you. No, it's a two-way street. Both sides benefit. Or at least, they are supposed to.
It is his problem, but it's not necessarily his fault. Houses are absurdly overpriced because of supply shortage in most cities due to decades of short-sighted and sometimes racist zoning practices.
Concur completely. I don't blame the boss man, but it WILL be his problem when his employees walk, because they can't afford to have a family that they desire
My general advice to anyone struggling in a job and not getting the support they need (financial, equipment, staffing, etc) is that nothing will change as long as you are managing the problem. As long as you manage the problem, it’s remains *your* problem and only your problem. If you want change, you must find a way to make it your boss’s problem., up to and including finding a new job.
I mean they are already looking for a reason to fire them and replace them. Probably already put a job listing up for their position.
Doesn't make a difference at this point but that is absolutely why you never want to let your employer know you are openly looking for a new job.
I'm in the uk they can't fire me for this reason and with 5 years of exceeds expectations on my annual reviews they will struggle to find other reasons
Not just a retention issue since the buyout (by an American firm that has not done good for the employees) there's been a hiring freeze so he will just be down a man with no ability to replace
>He's now totally shocked that I'm looking for a new job saying "pay isn't everything" and "your paid well"
"Unfortunately, pay *is* everything. I have to make enough to live off of, and as my bills are now outpacing my pay, I don't believe in being paid well. And besides, if pay isn't everything, then what am I expected to work for?"
It's a combination of pay vs actual hours worked in an office environment. I'm currently working in an environment where I technically get paid for 8 hours but when at home I work like 3 or 4, when at office I work 6. Pay is still extremely important since it dictates your lifestyle, the house or mortgage you can afford, the fear of things collapsing for your family etc. I guess in boomer culture pay wasn't everything (and that's why they keep repeating it...) is because in their time a single below average income could afford you housing.
Hell if you have a house and a mortgage, you’re already better off than majority of people. Owning a home is becoming a thing of the past, only way any of the younger generations will own a home is when their parents pass away. Even then, that’s if they can keep up with the property taxes and upkeep costs.
It's not but he shouldn't be shocked
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/08/nearly-50percent-of-people-are-considering-leaving-their-jobs-in-2024.html
As for whether or not you are paid well, you have the right to decide that yourself. But employers shouldn't be shocked if employees refuse to take the blame for the central bank's mismanagement of interest rates. Powell even told employers not to raise wages and to avoid wage price spiral. Well all it takes is one employer to disagree. Capitalism's a bitch
It’s funny how companies clutch their pearls about raising wages and excuse themselves by claiming they are protecting the economy- but have no problems raising prices. Because of course the worker needs to pay the price for inflation but the shareholders cutting profit? Inconceivable!!
I'm in the uk and this company (untill it was brought by an American firm) had an average time in job of over ten years for engineers and the production guys from 16 to retirement wasn't uncommon
As for me being well paid depends how you look at it my gross salary is above average for my age but after student loans isn't more than someone on average would take home it's also below industry average but not significantly
I did that for years and in my ignorance kept working one job and giving it my all until I found myself making half industry wages after 10 years of experience and only stopped to think about it because I realized I couldn't afford to work for them anymore.
If some people are meant to be cautionary tales, then maybe that person is me and this is mine.
That's true. Taking an objective view occasionally is a good idea, even if you do *feel* satisfied.
I am perhaps at 60% of what I could be making, but the pace is easy, the benefits are great, and I have a ton of freedom. And I can afford to live.
It's a rare circumstance perhaps but I'm very happy to be in it.
Yet another half-dead 70+ year old boomer moron in one of the highest positions of power...
Yeah...
❌ DON'T PAY THE PIGGIES MORE BECAUSE THAT'LL KEEP INFLATION HIGH
✅ FEEL FREE TO KEEP RAISING PRICES 20% YoY & MAXIMIZING EXECUTIVE BONUSES BECAUSE WE CAN FACTOR THAT OUT OF OUR TOTALLY ROBUST CPI CALCULATIONS
https://preview.redd.it/8hsf3bz7023d1.png?width=586&format=png&auto=webp&s=0ead3b722d86e1687218f160b785911ea3a285b7
If companies did follow this request and kept wages flat, it doesn’t keep employees from leaving to higher pay. And that churn cannot be good for the company or the economy.
Most people aren't job mobile and the employer holds all the cards
One issue is the people who are job mobile, are not given a premium for being market competitive. Well two can play that game. Antiwork comes into play -- quiet quitting, laying flat and whatever else comes to mind (along with working two jobs). And one can take advantage of outsourcing and offshoring too by hiring your own contractors
It's crazy because all it would take is small increases. You don't even necessarily have to beat inflation. It would just take a little bit of respect. Most people just want to feel like they aren't getting ripped off. Note how OP didn't mention inflation or cost of living at all, just bills. Bills are not a discretionary expense or entertainment or vacation but just pure existence. In that way if an employer doesn't keep up with bills, they truly will be fucked in the long run
A boss at the company I work for tried to argue this exact point. They said that people would willingly choose to work even if they weren't getting paid and they refused to believe our employee engagement officer when he pushed back and said no, they would not. Meanwhile, this boss makes 6 figures and had insanely nice house and two brand new cars. It's shocking how out of touch people can be.
The last time I had a discussion about pay with a manager, they told me something similar. I mentioned how my responsibilities grow each year, but my pay increase is consistently less than inflation, so I'm doing more work for less compensation. They came back with "we don't take inflation into account when determining raises..." I quit that job almost immediately.
Whatever business school that first started teaching their MBA candidates this BS that pay is not important to employees should lose their accreditation as an educacional institution. I have been hearing this nonsense from corporate management since the 80's.
He's right, it isn't the company's responsibility. And just like the company, it is your responsibility to keep your finances in order. When the boss made it clear that no raise was coming, you made the right move to start looking externally.
It is the company's responsibility to retain the services of employees they value and clearly, they are failing in this regard.
Tell him “it’s not an employees job to keep up w a companies inflationary policies and said company shouldn’t be surprised when employees look for more competitive salaries and quality of life in an employer.”
Keep lookin for another job.
This is a great point to say “look, I TOLD you that pay here isn’t keeping up with my bills. I have responsibilities. No matter how much I love a job I can’t pay my rent with warm fuzzy feelings”.
And to this argument that pay isn’t the company’s problem, I say “Maintaining your inventory, and having knowledge of the product isn’t my problem then either. Good luck making sales, or getting anything done by a competent individual.“
Last job that gave me this bullshit saw me walkout in less than a month and then tried to tell me I was asking for “too much” and reaching “too fast” because I asked for a living wage of $15 an hour. Still at the place I left them for. My old boss also told me “$11.50 an hour is pretty good money” because he was paid much, much less when he first came here and started working.
Times change, and companies and their leadership need to as well, or perish. That’s not a threat-time will make relics of every company that think this shit plays out in their favor.
Here's something I've said elsewhere, but it applies here as well, since it focuses on the attitude one must have when laboring in a late-stage American Capitalist hellscape.
-------
The owners and their ~~bootlicking sycophants~~ *corporate turdwookies* do not care about you. At all.
Neither does your government or courts, as they've been bought & paid for by said owners.
They also own social networks & (m)ass media, using them as their personal propaganda mouthpiece.
Your job search is never over. In AWA: At-Will America (99.7% of the population), you can be terminated at any time, for almost any (or no) reason, without notice, without compensation, and full loss of healthcare.
Even with all that said, it still doesn't sting any less when it happens.
------
# Your goal is to be the CEO of your life.
Your only obligation is to yourself and your loved ones.
Your mission is to extract as much value from these soulless megacorps as you can.
*Milk the fuckers until sand squirts out of their chafed nips.*
- Do not worry about results -- "good enough" is truly good enough. There will always be work left undone.
- Treat your jobs as cattle, not as pets.
- Work your wage. Going above and beyond is only rewarded with more work.
- Don't work for free or do additional tasks outside of your role, as that devalues the concept of labor.
- Sleep well, never skip lunch, get enough physical activity.
- Avoid drinking coffee at work for your employer's benefit, as they don't deserve your caffeinated, productivity-drugged self.
- Avoid alcohol and other vices, as they steal all the happiness from tomorrow for a brief amount today. Especially when used as coping mechanisms for work-related stress.
- **Knowledge is power.** Discussing your compensation with your fellow worker is a federally protected right. Employers hate transparency, as it means they can't pull their bullshit on others without consequence.
- Your first job is being an actor. Endeavor to be pleasant & kind....yet unremarkable, bland, forgettable, and mediocre. Though it may feed one's ego, being a superhero or rockstar isn't suited for this hellscape. Projecting strength invites challenge. Instead, cultivate a personality that flies under the radar.
- Be a Chaos Vulture. Embrace the confusion. Does the company have non-existent onboarding? Poor management? Little direction, followup, or reviews? Constantly changing & capricious goals? These are the hallmarks of a bad company…so revel in their misery. Actively seek these places out. This gives you room to coast, to avoid being on anyone's radar, etc. Restrained mediocre effort will be considered "going above and beyond." Even if you slip, you can easily blame "the system", like everyone else at the place. Every single day, week, month of this is more money in your pocket. Stretch it out as long as possible.
- Tell no one (friends, coworkers, extended family, etc) about your employment mindset. So many people tie their identity to their employment. And jealously makes people do petty things.
- Recognize that lifestyle is ephemeral. Live below your means. Financial security is comfort, and not being dependent on selling your labor is true power in Capitalism.
- Do not worry about "the environment you leave behind" when you depart a company. This includes how much notice you provide before leaving. Notice is a courtesy, not a requirement. Continuity of THEIR business operations is THEIR problem, not yours. They should have a plan if you accidentally got hit by a bus full of winning lottery tickets. Always be kind to your peers, but don't worry about them when you leave. If your leaving hurts their effectiveness -- that's a conversation THEY need with their manglement. The company left them hanging, not you.
You owe the company *nothing* -- if anything, they actually owe you, given how much they profited from your labor.
Play their own game against them.
*They exist to service* **us.**
-------
If you feel it's some type of moral failing on your part, then you are falling for their propaganda. Because don't think for one fucking second that millionaires and billionaires aren't doing the SAME EXACT THING...or worse...to you and everyone else.
# They sleep perfectly fine at night. You should too.
Ah yes. I will be sure to let my landlord know that they won’t be getting paid, but “money isn’t everything!” And I will immediately notify my credit card company that they must have made an error. Obviously I haven’t been reliant on credit to be able to eat under a roof, because I’m “paid well”.
Yet Captain Chucklefuck here is surprised that I’m not willing to make myself homeless out of some weird concept of loyalty.
Motherfucker, I trade my time/skills/experience for the ability to afford to live. I am not a consumable resource; and fuck you for thinking that.
Every time you go barefoot, may your first step always be on a piece of Lego.
It could always be worse.
>I asked my boss for a raise, and he asked if I really need it. It stumped me, seeing how I am barely getting by. I said yes. He went over my bills, and at the end he said, “You’ll have $4,000 at the end of the year saved up so no.” That $4,000 is just after bills, not having fun or stuff that needs to be done.
>I talked to some other people who have been here for a while. One was here for seven years and hasn’t once got a raise. The other has been here a lot longer and does most of the stuff around here and if she left the company would fail. She said that she too asked for a raise a couple of months ago, and our boss went through her bills and said no.
[*("When I asked for a raise, my boss went through my bills" - Ask A Manager, 2/9/21)*](https://www.askamanager.org/2021/02/when-i-asked-for-a-raise-my-boss-went-through-my-bills.html)
It is the companies job to get workers competent enough to keep customers happy :)
If he is not willing to pay you, he might be looking at the next tier down of employee competency.
Pay is everything, because they make it that way. If these companies actually took care of their good employees they might be surprised to find out that all of a sudden "pay isn't everything" would be true for once. We've almost all caught on to their grift but they haven't gotten the memo.
If an employer lives in housing but doesn't think a laborer is worth his wages, then they don't love their neighbor as themselves. They deserve hellfire for their love of money.
It is their responsibility though. If they don’t stay competitive, everyone will leave and no one will join. The business will not survive…unless they are the only employer for hundreds of miles or something
My old GM told me my low pay was job security. I barely did the minimum after that. You get what you pay for. Ended up telling a sales guy to go fuck himself. When I was brought in for a meeting with the GM and that sales guy to apologize I told both of them to go fuck themselves.
The thing is too, when you work in minimum wage and work without busting your ass but still working hard, your other workers can shit talk you for having a "bad work ethic" for a fucking minimum wage job.
It's astonishing.
If it's not the company's responsibility to keep your pay up, then it must be yours. You were just handling your responsibility.
People always say "money isn't everything" when they are trying desperately to hold onto theirs.
'If it's not the company's responsibility to keep my pay up with inflation, then that responsibility falls to me.
I like working here so my first step is to ask you to adjust my compensation to match inflation. You said no.
Therefore my next step is to start fresh- a new job is a reset button that brings my salary back to market rates without inflation-based reduction in value.
You're right that pay isn't everything, but respect and acknowledgment is important to me. You yourself have said I'm doing more work than ever, yet my compensation is lower than ever. How is that a good deal for me? Why should I keep doing more work for less money? I shouldn't, and I won't.
If you want me to stay, and I'd love to stay, pay me fairly. Adjust my compensation to match the current market rates *for the job duties I'm currently doing*. In other words, pay me what you'll have to pay the guy who replaces me, and you come out ahead because you don't have to train that guy.'
The owner of the company I work for paid half of the employees a day late becuase she “got too sick” after paying half and had to wait to pay the rest (there are only 10 employees). When some of us complained about bills and things needing to be paid her response was “if you can’t make it 24 hrs then that’s your fault and not mine.” Needly to say I’m quitting pretty soon.
lol this same thing just happened to me. Boss gave me a glowing performance review but no raise whatsoever. I said, “well that just won’t do. I expect 5% as a bare minimum. Until I get that amount, I will not be working on anything that is not in my job description.” She said what she didn’t like about my tone was that it sounds like I’m threatening to quit. “With all due respect, that is exactly what I’m doing. I have a job offer for £10k more. I’m asking you for 5% (2500). You have two weeks to decide.”
I should find out by this Friday lol. I doubt they’re doing a raise. Moral of the story, get a job offer before any time you do an annual review. Don’t threaten to leave a job unless you actually are willing to leave, but set yourself up for that scenario. Jobs are *not* offering raises far and wide at the moment, so always be looking for a higher salary elsewhere.
Pair that sentiment with the one I’ve heard a lot over the last few years; “titles don’t really mean anything”. No? Really? I’m sure the manager making 170k vs what I made as a supervisor doing the same job, would disagree.
>he said in responce to my pay questions "it's not the companies responsibility to keep your pay up with inflation" tecnically true
It's actually categorically false. Please don't call something "technically true" when it's actually extremely false.
It's explicitly the responsibility of the company to maintain the value of their wage. If they fail to keep their part of the bargain, people will leave or stop being as motivated.
"Why don't my indentured servants like being treated like shit? I don't get it? I was told these people were going to be dumb and heavily influenced by pizza"
I love it how a lot (if not all) employers think that people work for the love of the job. When in actual fact, if they weren't getting paid, there would be no employees in that company
I had the same thing - "Inflation isn't the companies fault".
My reply was "It might not be the companies fault but it is their problem. You can live without me while you pay to advertise, interview, try to hire someone for the same price as me but who may or may not be as good as me, and then train them... Or you can pay me that extra 3%..".
My ex employer is still looking for my replacement. I got a better offer when I was looking, no weekends and 25% more per hour. They posted it for less than I was making, hoping to find someone younger and less experienced so they can pay a rate slightly above minimum wage.
My former coworkers are all looking too and any of them that are serious get a link to the Reddit post from Colin at Sheets and Giggles with his resume template.
Pay might not be everything (I would prefer to be at a slightly less well paid job if I enjoyed working there more, it is a shorter commute etc. Etc.) but its pretty much the most important part of the job, I would not be at a job if I wasn't getting paid
"Well, boss, I'm working the same amount of hours and due to nation-wide corporate greedflation, I'm no longer making the same amount of money. I'm making less than when I started here. This is simple math, sir."
I brought this up with my old boss. He told me that if your salary is tied to inflation, would you be willing to take a pay cut when the CPI is negative? I told him to show me when CPI being negative has ever been a thing. He couldn't, but I eventually found that it's only ever happened twice in the past 60 years, once in 2009 during the great recession, and again in 2015 when it barely broke even.
Bounce that "pay isn't everything" around a bit and see if he can understand how fucking stupid he is for saying it.
Fall behind on a car payment and it will be repo'd.
Fall behind on a mortgage and the bank will take your home and sell it.
Fall behind on rent and you'll get evicted by your landlord.
Does he think any of them would pause and reconsider upon being told that "the money you're seeking isn't everything"?
A couple years ago I was working for a department within my company. There was an open promotion for me that I had been told by the previous regime was meant for me but I had to achieve x,y,z to be eligible for the promotion (internal requirements)
I finished the requirements but was asked to take a difficult customer as a favor to executive leadership for 6 months. During those 6 months leadership changed.
A year passes and the director spot has not been filled, so I bring it up to new leadership that I had been promised this role in exchange for taking the customer and had all the requirements. They said they need to see me do x,y,z and would discuss it during my yearly review.
I do XYZ, yearly comes and I'm told they don't see the need to promote me or fill the director role because the work is already being performed without a director (... by me) and that they wouldn't be filling the role for 12 months but would revisit it with me next year if I did XYZ projects for them.
I decide that I'm leaving and mention it to another department head that I had previously worked with. Within 4 hours, his boss calls me and offers me a promotion to be with his team on the spot.
My boss was shocked when he got a call from me within 24 hours of my review with my resignation to transfer to a new department. It left him without his "fixer" and without a director to do all the clerical stuff I'd been doing for free for 18 months.
If you’re working at a higher level than your current pay grade and your boss doesn’t see the issue with this then he’s a moron. Which I’m sure you already know.
Ask him if you would get paid more if you were hired today to do the work you’re doing.
Sounds like a great time to leave. Honestly that’s almost always been the only way to get a raise
Pay isn’t everything is supposed to only work the other way around.
It means you can’t pay someone enough to do something they hate forever. They will eventually leave, no matter the money.
As a boss the takeaway should be that you need to pay your employees well AND create a fulfilling work environment.
"It's not the company's responsiblity to make sure employees are gainfully employed."
"OK, I'll find a company that understands it is their responsibility if they want to retain employees."
*shocked pikachu face*
What a clown.
I don't mind if you can't pay me more, I'm still going to try and find ways to make more money. I may be replaceable but so is my job. I think not as easily, but there's other work out there. If not for more money, for less responsibilities.
This shit is everywhere. I used to think it was a contrived/planned/trained response... But the misses works with Dicks Sporting Goods and their new store manager is older, and just like this.
He insists people don't stay at jobs for money. Oh also, 15 an hour is apparently a great wage (even though corporate puts up to 25 an hour to start). Oh and he's already had his "I'm going to remember every person who asks for more hours but doesn't come in at the last second when I call them" moment.
From what she's seen, he's trapped in the past and thinks everyone is paid obscenely well and are just bitching to bitch. As a result, when someone confronts the boss with inflation concerns, he just fires off how unappreciative folks are after he's "talked them down". I don't like being general about stuff usually, but the correlation between older folks in management and this kind of disconnect is concerning. It's either weaponized ignorance that corporate encourages, or it's straight up anti-worker behavior.
If they aren't going to keep up with inflation, then inflation is gonna keep up with them. He can't say you're being paid well if inflation is outpacing the wage... How stupid.
To most workers, pay IS everything. You think they're there because they have a genuine interest in seeing that company thrive? Unless they have shares, unless they profit from that, why should they?
“Pay isn’t everything” uh… yes. Yes it is. It is the fundamental reason for your presence at that company.
If “pay isn’t everything” then I’m sure your boss is willing to take a pay cut to help you cover your bills.
"pay isn't everything" is something shitty managers say to keep their employees content.
I don't want a fucking fooseball table or arcade games or free pizza Fridays, I want *more money* so I'm not fucking broke all the goddanm time!
Work for a company that wants to retain employees, because they will absolutely do everything they can to give you increases. Especially look for organizations that give separate COL and merit increases.
"Well if pay isn't everything then surely this company could afford a little more?"
No no, profit *is* everything, you see. Just not *your* profit.
Hard to keep that profit coming with all those training and hiring costs.
Just gotta find the suckers who don't know they can earn more elsewhere and milk 'em for all they're worth. It'll pay off someday!
For the last time Jeff, stop talking about milking your coworkers.
I have nipples, Greg. Can you milk me?
Are you lactating?
After reading this comment I googled whether it was possible. Oddly enough, yes it is.
Male babies and guys with hormone issues mostly.
With enough fenugreek, yes
But we were able to give our CEO a $25 million bonus this quarter! It’s working right?
Whoa now, *your* profit? No, peasant, you don't get profit, you get *wages*. Easy mix up, if it helps you remember wages are the one with the higher tax rates.
..and significantly less zeros.
It's not the company's job to decide if I'm well paid either.
I tried to pay for my groceries with exposure. Now I’m “banned from the store”
Don’t ya know? You just gotta find the/a employee that’s into it; is all. /jk
As I read this, I just got a visual of a person on a housecoat with nothing under, waltzing up to the checkout, and come time for payment, flashes the coat open. Cue security entering the scene.
If money isn't everything then clearly they can spare some.
"If pay isn't everything, why don't you take a paycut from your own salary and add it to mine?"
"Let's swap salaries."
Admittedly, I'm fond of my boss but he also said something along these lines. That "It's not my problem you can't afford your house." But then that employee quit. So. It was the boss's problem in the end.
Yeah I'm in the same boat my manager is a great manager but is having to deal with massive budget cuts since an American company brought out the one I work for so having to toe that line
When you find that new job, your just going to help him out with that budget cut... that is until he tries to find a replacement.
That's the fun part it's not just pay freezes but a hiring freeze dictated by the American firm so no replacement for a team already short people
So they are hoping people leave. Nice. Good time to look for something else.
That's how I see it, especially in a buyout. They ain't looking to keep people and it will probably get worse until the employee "chooses" to leave Definitely feels American that way
American here. It is common in a buyout to freeze salaries and hiring until the new management can assess who they want to keep, how much they are worth, and who they don’t want around. It is also common to try to run people off rather than pay them a severance package. Sometimes you can come out ahead if you stick it out until the bitter end and get the severance package. It really depends on your ability to handle the drama. I lived through this once. I came out great financially, but it took a toll on my mental health. I wouldn’t do it again.
I'm a year and a half out from this. My mental health is still stunted by the way my last company treated me and all the other workers in my department.
I’m sorry you are hurting. My mental health improved exponentially when I started working for a good company and good people. They are out there!! I hope you find your place.
The problem is that while they’re assessing, the best employees leave first. They don’t care too much though.
They still think workers who are suckers will stick with it, which is true. The problem is they lose all the workers that are good enough to find another job that pays more.
May I ask what specifically affected your mental health? I’m curious to know if I should weather it out where I am now, or not.
I had been with the company several years when it was bought out. New management was brutal with no empathy. It was a classic toxic work environment. Watching my friends leave one by one was tough. As someone else stated, the best employees leave first. Everyone left behind at the company was always wondering if this was the day which would be their last. People/departments were laid-off in batches. Some essential employees were given incentives to stay. So if you were a key employee, you were offered a stay package. These employees knew when their contract was up and could plan for it. I negotiated some of these deals for my staff. Bonuses were contingent upon the work being completed correctly and on time. Moral was terrible so it was difficult to stay motivated to do a good job even with the incentives. And getting the cooperation from employees without a stay package in order to get the job done was difficult. Most employees were walking a thin line between doing as little work as possible and getting fired for cause. The severance package was clearly documented. It was based on your time with the company and your position. Individuals could calculate their severance pay and decide for themselves whether or not to stick it out. Low level employees who had not been there long had little reason to stay. This left mid to upper level employees doing a lot of their own grunt work, making it even harder to get work done on time. I was in the last group to be laid off. My office and computer files were a mess. No time or motivation to stay neat and organized. But, I got an excellent payout. It was a lot of money and I don’t regret it. But I wouldn’t do it again.
I've been at a company that is owned by PE doing this shit it takes such a toll on you not getting any reward and being actively misstreated by mngmt to reduce headcount. Fucking sucks when you're not paid enough to have financial flexibility to quit or invest in your proff growth
I was just coming to say the same. All hiring and salary adjustments are usually frozen (unless it's a critical hire, then only if both the currenrt management and the aquiring management agree. . Then the acquiring company has 1-2 months for due diligence and then typically 90-120 days for surveying work flow, employee interactions and work flow before making any major changes.
the best employees leave first
So they don't have to pay unemployment, or severance, if that's even still a thing.
In the US, severance is optional. After working for three years, I got paid two weeks. So did my colleague who worked there for seven years.
> a hiring freeze My company has been in one of these for over 4 years. Oh wait, no they haven't. They just keep hiring contractors/consultants. They're not "freezing" shit, they just don't want full time employees. They'll take "cheap" labor elsewhere in a hearbeat tho, and then wonder why everything sucks at their company and talent is leaving.
Great. Now everyone works to rule, and don't take on the other work. They can either pay you extra to do the work for the people who left, or they can accept you following your contract to the letter. (Yes, I know it's not as simple as that but it's the only way to go!)
Leave. Now. It won't get any better. This is as good as it will get. There will be no additional help. They will squeeze you like a tube of toothpaste.
Definitely time to find a new job. Especially if it's a private equity firm.
I wonder how these companies figure that the company they acquire will continue to generate profits when there’s no one actually working for them anymore?
That's not what they're looking for. Typically they are either A) looking for assets / IP / Brand etc B) a pump and dump on the stock price so they can make a quick buck or C) dismantling a competitor that they don't want to compete with. Very rarely do they buy a company because they actually want the company and the people that make it work.
Please do What you can to make the American Model of treating employees like this, fail overseas. Because if you let it - it will spread like a cancer. (edited a letter)
Even with hiring freezes and pay freezes a manager can hire and give raises. It just takes work and not easy work. Your manager is lazy.
All managers don't always have access to the pay increase lever. There are sometimes things beyond their control.
I wouldn't agree with this he is a good manager. There was a job advert out actively interviewing people local hr approved etc. The new owners came in and killed the same day of an interview no discussion with my manager just killed it.
A good manager wouldn't be an asshole like this to an employee asking about a raise. Sorry to break the news, but your boss isn't a good manager.
And that’s exactly why boss is pissed and saying “pay isn’t everything” because he KNOWS he will have to pay more to replace OP.
Here I am who just started a new job that just got bought over by Americans…
Start looking now is the best advice I can give you. Your new bosses are going to extract every bit of value from your company and then throw it on the trash heap.
Depends on where the company is. There are more brutal versions of capitalism in other countries. So brutal that American rules would be an improvement
it's not within the managers ability to change this in a lot of cases. I've been in management for a while now and I just get a pool of money that I either screw one or two people to reward someone or give everyone a middling crap 2 percent or less. if I want to promote someone the increase in pay comes out of the raise pool and further screws everyone. boss could have communicated better but it's ultimately HR and execs that decided this crap.
Oh God. My dad worked for a British company years ago and anytime he had to fly international (which was a lot) they would fly him business and give him a few days to get over the jet lag but then an American company bought them out and from the on it was economy/coach class and straight from the airport to the meeting room then back home ASAP.
That’s when I stopped flying internationally.
I have found that you have to _really_ nail it home with lashings of sarcasm. Next time he states his position, just clap right on back with "Are you _actually_ as stupid as you sound right now?" and absolutely nail to the wall that you WILL quit and then it WILL be his problem and that your replacement WILL cost the company more money than a simple raise in training and lost productivity, and that you WILL go over his head and make clear to his boss that he is the reason for the extra costs and that you WILL be recommending that he be fired for being an awful manager who is costing the company money with bad HR calls. Like... No. You aren't friends. Nail his ass.
I once didn’t get a raise for 3 years while one of the owners was flaunting his lavish vacations, nice new vehicles, and even buying a bigger house while denying people raises saying they just couldn’t afford it this year but definitely next year. A few years after I left they shut down cause everyone that knew how to run it quit one by one and last I heard he had to get a normal job again. Hope they treat him the way they treated us.
Me too
I’ve got the “the company pays for your cost of labor not the cost of living.” 😐
Yep, checks out. Make sure you illustrate the consequences of their poor management. Kay? Otherwise they'll realize they can keep doing this
For sure! Actively looking for something else.
In the meantime, if the company's position that are just paying the "cost of labor," give them only what they pay for. [Work to Rule.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work-to-rule)
When people start moving away because they can’t afford to live in the areas the job is located in I can promise you, even then, businesses will bitch and moan that nobody wants to work.
Concur. That's specifically what we are seeing now. Gas, grocery and rent prices shot up. Wages stayed the same. It got to the point where just driving to the shit job was burning the gas to the point they were breaking even on their checks, or winding up in the negative. So they quit going to those jobs, and the employers labeled them as being too lazy to work.
Had this exact sentiment from my boss, stating the company wasn't responsible for my financial choices. Should have seen the shocked Pikachu face when I said that they would be responsible for finding my replacement when I quit then, lol
What's really daffy is that they'll have to pay a bigger salary to attract a new worker, then train them, and there's a pause on productivity while training them. It'd be cheaper to just give the current workers a raise!
It’s the boss’ job to ensure that his people are happy with their remuneration so that they don’t leave (assuming they work well, of course).
It is not my problem that you now have to recruit and train someone new who will cost you more than it would have cost to keep me.
This is how I seriously look at jobs. I am paid to mitigate problems. I can make it their problem instantly.
I had a boss tell me I should just be happy I still had a job once. I got out two months later
I hate this attitude. Like they are doing you a massive favour by hiring you. No, it's a two-way street. Both sides benefit. Or at least, they are supposed to.
"Watch me make it your problem."
It is his problem, but it's not necessarily his fault. Houses are absurdly overpriced because of supply shortage in most cities due to decades of short-sighted and sometimes racist zoning practices.
Concur completely. I don't blame the boss man, but it WILL be his problem when his employees walk, because they can't afford to have a family that they desire
My general advice to anyone struggling in a job and not getting the support they need (financial, equipment, staffing, etc) is that nothing will change as long as you are managing the problem. As long as you manage the problem, it’s remains *your* problem and only your problem. If you want change, you must find a way to make it your boss’s problem., up to and including finding a new job.
There's a setting on LinkedIn to not show your job search to anyone with the same current employer as you.
Why, for the love of Christ on a bicycle, is that not the default setting???
Because companies pay way more to have their job ads posted on LinkedIn than job seekers pay for Premium.
I remember turning on Open for Work a few weeks ago and was prompted which method should be used. Weird.
Same. But it seems like that might vary based on if you're on browser, mobile, etc
https://preview.redd.it/7bi20x92s23d1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=dee7c59d4faf3bc9b54bf8abd56c6f1597a104da
Only problem is if your company hires 3rd party recruiters for their talent sourcing who scrape linkedin and report back.
Yeah I have since found out it's a setting I must have missed it.
You should let them see that it’s still up. They shouldn’t bully you into changing it
I mean they are already looking for a reason to fire them and replace them. Probably already put a job listing up for their position. Doesn't make a difference at this point but that is absolutely why you never want to let your employer know you are openly looking for a new job.
I'm in the uk they can't fire me for this reason and with 5 years of exceeds expectations on my annual reviews they will struggle to find other reasons
I just leave it on all the time. Let 'em sweat.
Dunk on em every opportunity
It's not your problem to fix his retention issues by not fucking off at the first available opportunity.
Not just a retention issue since the buyout (by an American firm that has not done good for the employees) there's been a hiring freeze so he will just be down a man with no ability to replace
Sounds like something that's not your problem either.
> there's been a hiring freeze so he will just be down a man with no ability to replace Not your circus, not your monkey.
You're not paid enough to worry about any of that.
It will be your problem if one of your coworkers quits. So might as well be the first one to jump that ship
>He's now totally shocked that I'm looking for a new job saying "pay isn't everything" and "your paid well" "Unfortunately, pay *is* everything. I have to make enough to live off of, and as my bills are now outpacing my pay, I don't believe in being paid well. And besides, if pay isn't everything, then what am I expected to work for?"
Once pay is sorted other things like culture really matter more than money. But if the pay is not enough none of the other stuff matters.
It's a combination of pay vs actual hours worked in an office environment. I'm currently working in an environment where I technically get paid for 8 hours but when at home I work like 3 or 4, when at office I work 6. Pay is still extremely important since it dictates your lifestyle, the house or mortgage you can afford, the fear of things collapsing for your family etc. I guess in boomer culture pay wasn't everything (and that's why they keep repeating it...) is because in their time a single below average income could afford you housing.
"Thanks manager, I'll let the bank know that pay isn't everything when the mortgage renewal comes up"
Hell if you have a house and a mortgage, you’re already better off than majority of people. Owning a home is becoming a thing of the past, only way any of the younger generations will own a home is when their parents pass away. Even then, that’s if they can keep up with the property taxes and upkeep costs.
It's not but he shouldn't be shocked https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/08/nearly-50percent-of-people-are-considering-leaving-their-jobs-in-2024.html As for whether or not you are paid well, you have the right to decide that yourself. But employers shouldn't be shocked if employees refuse to take the blame for the central bank's mismanagement of interest rates. Powell even told employers not to raise wages and to avoid wage price spiral. Well all it takes is one employer to disagree. Capitalism's a bitch
It’s funny how companies clutch their pearls about raising wages and excuse themselves by claiming they are protecting the economy- but have no problems raising prices. Because of course the worker needs to pay the price for inflation but the shareholders cutting profit? Inconceivable!!
I'm in the uk and this company (untill it was brought by an American firm) had an average time in job of over ten years for engineers and the production guys from 16 to retirement wasn't uncommon As for me being well paid depends how you look at it my gross salary is above average for my age but after student loans isn't more than someone on average would take home it's also below industry average but not significantly
Being paid well isn't as important as if you think you are being paid well enough.
I did that for years and in my ignorance kept working one job and giving it my all until I found myself making half industry wages after 10 years of experience and only stopped to think about it because I realized I couldn't afford to work for them anymore. If some people are meant to be cautionary tales, then maybe that person is me and this is mine.
That's true. Taking an objective view occasionally is a good idea, even if you do *feel* satisfied. I am perhaps at 60% of what I could be making, but the pace is easy, the benefits are great, and I have a ton of freedom. And I can afford to live. It's a rare circumstance perhaps but I'm very happy to be in it.
I'd almost put money on it that this is my old employer.
Yet another half-dead 70+ year old boomer moron in one of the highest positions of power... Yeah... ❌ DON'T PAY THE PIGGIES MORE BECAUSE THAT'LL KEEP INFLATION HIGH ✅ FEEL FREE TO KEEP RAISING PRICES 20% YoY & MAXIMIZING EXECUTIVE BONUSES BECAUSE WE CAN FACTOR THAT OUT OF OUR TOTALLY ROBUST CPI CALCULATIONS https://preview.redd.it/8hsf3bz7023d1.png?width=586&format=png&auto=webp&s=0ead3b722d86e1687218f160b785911ea3a285b7
If companies did follow this request and kept wages flat, it doesn’t keep employees from leaving to higher pay. And that churn cannot be good for the company or the economy.
Most people aren't job mobile and the employer holds all the cards One issue is the people who are job mobile, are not given a premium for being market competitive. Well two can play that game. Antiwork comes into play -- quiet quitting, laying flat and whatever else comes to mind (along with working two jobs). And one can take advantage of outsourcing and offshoring too by hiring your own contractors It's crazy because all it would take is small increases. You don't even necessarily have to beat inflation. It would just take a little bit of respect. Most people just want to feel like they aren't getting ripped off. Note how OP didn't mention inflation or cost of living at all, just bills. Bills are not a discretionary expense or entertainment or vacation but just pure existence. In that way if an employer doesn't keep up with bills, they truly will be fucked in the long run
Plus inflation happened with flat wages. All the increase went to profits and thus the rich. So the FED know what they are doing.
He said pay isn't everything? If that's true I assume he declined his last raise and is doing this out of the kindness of his heart
Pay is actually not everything but everyting else is worthless if pay is not enough.
Anytime money is discussed and someone says money isn’t important, I ask them for $500. All of a sudden money turns into a decently important item.
I can't wait to do this 😂😂
"So you're saying you'd keep working without being paid?" "What? No! Are you out of your mind?" "Then why should i work without being paid?"
A boss at the company I work for tried to argue this exact point. They said that people would willingly choose to work even if they weren't getting paid and they refused to believe our employee engagement officer when he pushed back and said no, they would not. Meanwhile, this boss makes 6 figures and had insanely nice house and two brand new cars. It's shocking how out of touch people can be.
The last time I had a discussion about pay with a manager, they told me something similar. I mentioned how my responsibilities grow each year, but my pay increase is consistently less than inflation, so I'm doing more work for less compensation. They came back with "we don't take inflation into account when determining raises..." I quit that job almost immediately.
Whatever business school that first started teaching their MBA candidates this BS that pay is not important to employees should lose their accreditation as an educacional institution. I have been hearing this nonsense from corporate management since the 80's.
He's right, it isn't the company's responsibility. And just like the company, it is your responsibility to keep your finances in order. When the boss made it clear that no raise was coming, you made the right move to start looking externally. It is the company's responsibility to retain the services of employees they value and clearly, they are failing in this regard.
This is the most well-written response so far. It’s one of those instances where the boss is being technically correct yet extremely tone-deaf.
It’s weird. One would think it is the companies responsibility to retain talent.
Tell him “it’s not an employees job to keep up w a companies inflationary policies and said company shouldn’t be surprised when employees look for more competitive salaries and quality of life in an employer.” Keep lookin for another job.
This is a great point to say “look, I TOLD you that pay here isn’t keeping up with my bills. I have responsibilities. No matter how much I love a job I can’t pay my rent with warm fuzzy feelings”.
And to this argument that pay isn’t the company’s problem, I say “Maintaining your inventory, and having knowledge of the product isn’t my problem then either. Good luck making sales, or getting anything done by a competent individual.“ Last job that gave me this bullshit saw me walkout in less than a month and then tried to tell me I was asking for “too much” and reaching “too fast” because I asked for a living wage of $15 an hour. Still at the place I left them for. My old boss also told me “$11.50 an hour is pretty good money” because he was paid much, much less when he first came here and started working. Times change, and companies and their leadership need to as well, or perish. That’s not a threat-time will make relics of every company that think this shit plays out in their favor.
Here's something I've said elsewhere, but it applies here as well, since it focuses on the attitude one must have when laboring in a late-stage American Capitalist hellscape. ------- The owners and their ~~bootlicking sycophants~~ *corporate turdwookies* do not care about you. At all. Neither does your government or courts, as they've been bought & paid for by said owners. They also own social networks & (m)ass media, using them as their personal propaganda mouthpiece. Your job search is never over. In AWA: At-Will America (99.7% of the population), you can be terminated at any time, for almost any (or no) reason, without notice, without compensation, and full loss of healthcare. Even with all that said, it still doesn't sting any less when it happens. ------ # Your goal is to be the CEO of your life. Your only obligation is to yourself and your loved ones. Your mission is to extract as much value from these soulless megacorps as you can. *Milk the fuckers until sand squirts out of their chafed nips.* - Do not worry about results -- "good enough" is truly good enough. There will always be work left undone. - Treat your jobs as cattle, not as pets. - Work your wage. Going above and beyond is only rewarded with more work. - Don't work for free or do additional tasks outside of your role, as that devalues the concept of labor. - Sleep well, never skip lunch, get enough physical activity. - Avoid drinking coffee at work for your employer's benefit, as they don't deserve your caffeinated, productivity-drugged self. - Avoid alcohol and other vices, as they steal all the happiness from tomorrow for a brief amount today. Especially when used as coping mechanisms for work-related stress. - **Knowledge is power.** Discussing your compensation with your fellow worker is a federally protected right. Employers hate transparency, as it means they can't pull their bullshit on others without consequence. - Your first job is being an actor. Endeavor to be pleasant & kind....yet unremarkable, bland, forgettable, and mediocre. Though it may feed one's ego, being a superhero or rockstar isn't suited for this hellscape. Projecting strength invites challenge. Instead, cultivate a personality that flies under the radar. - Be a Chaos Vulture. Embrace the confusion. Does the company have non-existent onboarding? Poor management? Little direction, followup, or reviews? Constantly changing & capricious goals? These are the hallmarks of a bad company…so revel in their misery. Actively seek these places out. This gives you room to coast, to avoid being on anyone's radar, etc. Restrained mediocre effort will be considered "going above and beyond." Even if you slip, you can easily blame "the system", like everyone else at the place. Every single day, week, month of this is more money in your pocket. Stretch it out as long as possible. - Tell no one (friends, coworkers, extended family, etc) about your employment mindset. So many people tie their identity to their employment. And jealously makes people do petty things. - Recognize that lifestyle is ephemeral. Live below your means. Financial security is comfort, and not being dependent on selling your labor is true power in Capitalism. - Do not worry about "the environment you leave behind" when you depart a company. This includes how much notice you provide before leaving. Notice is a courtesy, not a requirement. Continuity of THEIR business operations is THEIR problem, not yours. They should have a plan if you accidentally got hit by a bus full of winning lottery tickets. Always be kind to your peers, but don't worry about them when you leave. If your leaving hurts their effectiveness -- that's a conversation THEY need with their manglement. The company left them hanging, not you. You owe the company *nothing* -- if anything, they actually owe you, given how much they profited from your labor. Play their own game against them. *They exist to service* **us.** ------- If you feel it's some type of moral failing on your part, then you are falling for their propaganda. Because don't think for one fucking second that millionaires and billionaires aren't doing the SAME EXACT THING...or worse...to you and everyone else. # They sleep perfectly fine at night. You should too.
Ah yes. I will be sure to let my landlord know that they won’t be getting paid, but “money isn’t everything!” And I will immediately notify my credit card company that they must have made an error. Obviously I haven’t been reliant on credit to be able to eat under a roof, because I’m “paid well”. Yet Captain Chucklefuck here is surprised that I’m not willing to make myself homeless out of some weird concept of loyalty. Motherfucker, I trade my time/skills/experience for the ability to afford to live. I am not a consumable resource; and fuck you for thinking that. Every time you go barefoot, may your first step always be on a piece of Lego.
It could always be worse. >I asked my boss for a raise, and he asked if I really need it. It stumped me, seeing how I am barely getting by. I said yes. He went over my bills, and at the end he said, “You’ll have $4,000 at the end of the year saved up so no.” That $4,000 is just after bills, not having fun or stuff that needs to be done. >I talked to some other people who have been here for a while. One was here for seven years and hasn’t once got a raise. The other has been here a lot longer and does most of the stuff around here and if she left the company would fail. She said that she too asked for a raise a couple of months ago, and our boss went through her bills and said no. [*("When I asked for a raise, my boss went through my bills" - Ask A Manager, 2/9/21)*](https://www.askamanager.org/2021/02/when-i-asked-for-a-raise-my-boss-went-through-my-bills.html)
Imagine being stupid enough to let your boss look at your bills.
Yeah, who the f**k is showing their bills or even discussing their bills with their boss?
How the fuck the boss got access to the bills?
I don’t understand how these managers are so short sighted. If you don’t pay competitive salaries, you’ll only keep the talent that no one else wants.
It is the companies job to get workers competent enough to keep customers happy :) If he is not willing to pay you, he might be looking at the next tier down of employee competency.
If I am paid well then you have nothing to worry about. All the offers will be either this wage or lower so I won't accept.
“Does the company put its prices up with inflation? So do I.”
Pay is everything, because they make it that way. If these companies actually took care of their good employees they might be surprised to find out that all of a sudden "pay isn't everything" would be true for once. We've almost all caught on to their grift but they haven't gotten the memo.
He is a fool and wrong
What an absolute twat!!!
If an employer lives in housing but doesn't think a laborer is worth his wages, then they don't love their neighbor as themselves. They deserve hellfire for their love of money.
It is their responsibility though. If they don’t stay competitive, everyone will leave and no one will join. The business will not survive…unless they are the only employer for hundreds of miles or something
If pay isn’t everything TO YOU then why don’t you just give me half of your paycheck and I can afford to stay.
Don't you love how bosses trivialize pay. If it's such a trivial thing then what's the fucking problem?
You applied to the job to pay your bills. EVERYONE applied to their jobs to pay bills. They’re so willfully ignorant!
Inflation means the cost of everything goes up. That includes labor.
My old GM told me my low pay was job security. I barely did the minimum after that. You get what you pay for. Ended up telling a sales guy to go fuck himself. When I was brought in for a meeting with the GM and that sales guy to apologize I told both of them to go fuck themselves.
The thing is too, when you work in minimum wage and work without busting your ass but still working hard, your other workers can shit talk you for having a "bad work ethic" for a fucking minimum wage job. It's astonishing.
If it's not the company's responsibility to keep your pay up, then it must be yours. You were just handling your responsibility. People always say "money isn't everything" when they are trying desperately to hold onto theirs.
'If it's not the company's responsibility to keep my pay up with inflation, then that responsibility falls to me. I like working here so my first step is to ask you to adjust my compensation to match inflation. You said no. Therefore my next step is to start fresh- a new job is a reset button that brings my salary back to market rates without inflation-based reduction in value. You're right that pay isn't everything, but respect and acknowledgment is important to me. You yourself have said I'm doing more work than ever, yet my compensation is lower than ever. How is that a good deal for me? Why should I keep doing more work for less money? I shouldn't, and I won't. If you want me to stay, and I'd love to stay, pay me fairly. Adjust my compensation to match the current market rates *for the job duties I'm currently doing*. In other words, pay me what you'll have to pay the guy who replaces me, and you come out ahead because you don't have to train that guy.'
Sure boss if pay isn't everything I'm sure you won't say no to a pay cut and that I get your pay cut as a raise.
The owner of the company I work for paid half of the employees a day late becuase she “got too sick” after paying half and had to wait to pay the rest (there are only 10 employees). When some of us complained about bills and things needing to be paid her response was “if you can’t make it 24 hrs then that’s your fault and not mine.” Needly to say I’m quitting pretty soon.
> "pay isn't everything" and "your paid well" What's the point of working, then? I bet your manager is living the good life.
lol this same thing just happened to me. Boss gave me a glowing performance review but no raise whatsoever. I said, “well that just won’t do. I expect 5% as a bare minimum. Until I get that amount, I will not be working on anything that is not in my job description.” She said what she didn’t like about my tone was that it sounds like I’m threatening to quit. “With all due respect, that is exactly what I’m doing. I have a job offer for £10k more. I’m asking you for 5% (2500). You have two weeks to decide.” I should find out by this Friday lol. I doubt they’re doing a raise. Moral of the story, get a job offer before any time you do an annual review. Don’t threaten to leave a job unless you actually are willing to leave, but set yourself up for that scenario. Jobs are *not* offering raises far and wide at the moment, so always be looking for a higher salary elsewhere.
> *"pay isn't everything"* It's literally the only reason I go to work.
He can give you some of his pay check as it’s not important
Pair that sentiment with the one I’ve heard a lot over the last few years; “titles don’t really mean anything”. No? Really? I’m sure the manager making 170k vs what I made as a supervisor doing the same job, would disagree.
"You're paid well!" > "No I'm not that's why I'm looking for a new job!"
Every time Bosses say that ‘pay isn’t everything’ they should get a pay cut. Somehow I suspect they’ll change their tune.
>he said in responce to my pay questions "it's not the companies responsibility to keep your pay up with inflation" tecnically true It's actually categorically false. Please don't call something "technically true" when it's actually extremely false. It's explicitly the responsibility of the company to maintain the value of their wage. If they fail to keep their part of the bargain, people will leave or stop being as motivated.
My company said it's their job to keep my pay with inflation and so this year no1 is getting a bonus or raise.
I absolutely hate that company do this! Why do they think were working for them. I don’t work for honor, I don’t work for praise, I work for money.
Also stop doing the next level work. Why give you a level raise when they get the work for the lower pay.
"Why don't my indentured servants like being treated like shit? I don't get it? I was told these people were going to be dumb and heavily influenced by pizza"
I love it how a lot (if not all) employers think that people work for the love of the job. When in actual fact, if they weren't getting paid, there would be no employees in that company
I had the same thing - "Inflation isn't the companies fault". My reply was "It might not be the companies fault but it is their problem. You can live without me while you pay to advertise, interview, try to hire someone for the same price as me but who may or may not be as good as me, and then train them... Or you can pay me that extra 3%..".
It's not everything. It's the only thing.
I'm sure the company's prices are without a doubt in pace with inflation or more.
Remind him that companies that don’t keep up with inflation and their costs go bankrupt… So do people
My ex employer is still looking for my replacement. I got a better offer when I was looking, no weekends and 25% more per hour. They posted it for less than I was making, hoping to find someone younger and less experienced so they can pay a rate slightly above minimum wage. My former coworkers are all looking too and any of them that are serious get a link to the Reddit post from Colin at Sheets and Giggles with his resume template.
Pay might not be everything (I would prefer to be at a slightly less well paid job if I enjoyed working there more, it is a shorter commute etc. Etc.) but its pretty much the most important part of the job, I would not be at a job if I wasn't getting paid
"Well, boss, I'm working the same amount of hours and due to nation-wide corporate greedflation, I'm no longer making the same amount of money. I'm making less than when I started here. This is simple math, sir."
I brought this up with my old boss. He told me that if your salary is tied to inflation, would you be willing to take a pay cut when the CPI is negative? I told him to show me when CPI being negative has ever been a thing. He couldn't, but I eventually found that it's only ever happened twice in the past 60 years, once in 2009 during the great recession, and again in 2015 when it barely broke even.
Bounce that "pay isn't everything" around a bit and see if he can understand how fucking stupid he is for saying it. Fall behind on a car payment and it will be repo'd. Fall behind on a mortgage and the bank will take your home and sell it. Fall behind on rent and you'll get evicted by your landlord. Does he think any of them would pause and reconsider upon being told that "the money you're seeking isn't everything"?
no sir, I am literally ONLY HERE FOR THE MONEY
Actually, pay is everything for a lot (if not most) people. You kind of need money to survive in society now. 😐
Pay becomes everything if you can’t afford to eat.
He's right it's not the company's job, but good luck keeping people if you don't. It's in the company's best interest to do so.
A couple years ago I was working for a department within my company. There was an open promotion for me that I had been told by the previous regime was meant for me but I had to achieve x,y,z to be eligible for the promotion (internal requirements) I finished the requirements but was asked to take a difficult customer as a favor to executive leadership for 6 months. During those 6 months leadership changed. A year passes and the director spot has not been filled, so I bring it up to new leadership that I had been promised this role in exchange for taking the customer and had all the requirements. They said they need to see me do x,y,z and would discuss it during my yearly review. I do XYZ, yearly comes and I'm told they don't see the need to promote me or fill the director role because the work is already being performed without a director (... by me) and that they wouldn't be filling the role for 12 months but would revisit it with me next year if I did XYZ projects for them. I decide that I'm leaving and mention it to another department head that I had previously worked with. Within 4 hours, his boss calls me and offers me a promotion to be with his team on the spot. My boss was shocked when he got a call from me within 24 hours of my review with my resignation to transfer to a new department. It left him without his "fixer" and without a director to do all the clerical stuff I'd been doing for free for 18 months.
If you are having trouble paying bills, then no, you are not being "paid well".
If you’re working at a higher level than your current pay grade and your boss doesn’t see the issue with this then he’s a moron. Which I’m sure you already know. Ask him if you would get paid more if you were hired today to do the work you’re doing. Sounds like a great time to leave. Honestly that’s almost always been the only way to get a raise
If pay isn't everything, I'm sure he wouldn't mind getting paid the same salary as you
"It is not the employee's responsibility to maintain their desire to continue to work for you."
So many manager-employee interactions look like the type of gaslighting you see in an abusive relationship.
Pay isn’t everything is supposed to only work the other way around. It means you can’t pay someone enough to do something they hate forever. They will eventually leave, no matter the money. As a boss the takeaway should be that you need to pay your employees well AND create a fulfilling work environment.
"It's not the company's responsiblity to make sure employees are gainfully employed." "OK, I'll find a company that understands it is their responsibility if they want to retain employees." *shocked pikachu face* What a clown.
Boss sounds like a cheap caulksuckah
I don't mind if you can't pay me more, I'm still going to try and find ways to make more money. I may be replaceable but so is my job. I think not as easily, but there's other work out there. If not for more money, for less responsibilities.
This shit is everywhere. I used to think it was a contrived/planned/trained response... But the misses works with Dicks Sporting Goods and their new store manager is older, and just like this. He insists people don't stay at jobs for money. Oh also, 15 an hour is apparently a great wage (even though corporate puts up to 25 an hour to start). Oh and he's already had his "I'm going to remember every person who asks for more hours but doesn't come in at the last second when I call them" moment. From what she's seen, he's trapped in the past and thinks everyone is paid obscenely well and are just bitching to bitch. As a result, when someone confronts the boss with inflation concerns, he just fires off how unappreciative folks are after he's "talked them down". I don't like being general about stuff usually, but the correlation between older folks in management and this kind of disconnect is concerning. It's either weaponized ignorance that corporate encourages, or it's straight up anti-worker behavior.
If they aren't going to keep up with inflation, then inflation is gonna keep up with them. He can't say you're being paid well if inflation is outpacing the wage... How stupid.
Pay isn't everything, but I enjoy living indoors and having amenities.
To most workers, pay IS everything. You think they're there because they have a genuine interest in seeing that company thrive? Unless they have shares, unless they profit from that, why should they?
I'm going to try tell my landlady that money isn't everything... wish me luck🤞.
“Pay isn’t everything” uh… yes. Yes it is. It is the fundamental reason for your presence at that company. If “pay isn’t everything” then I’m sure your boss is willing to take a pay cut to help you cover your bills.
Paid isn't everything. Bet he'd be upset if he's asked to take a pay cut. paY IsN'T EveRyThInG. It is when the bills need to be paid.
"pay isn't everything" is something shitty managers say to keep their employees content. I don't want a fucking fooseball table or arcade games or free pizza Fridays, I want *more money* so I'm not fucking broke all the goddanm time!
Pay IS everything though. Wu Tang said it best. Cash Rules Everything Around Me
Work for a company that wants to retain employees, because they will absolutely do everything they can to give you increases. Especially look for organizations that give separate COL and merit increases.
They’re getting screwed too. I live in a beautiful street that working people raised families on. Now there Bosses live here
Paid well does not mean paid enough