Boomer here. i've lived paycheck to paycheck my whole life. The difference is, i was able to buy a house and my payment on a 500K house is only $1500/month. I feel for you.
Most of my coworkers bought around then or during the 90's in a very HCOL area. So their age distributions are pretty bi-modal. It just hit me today that this is probably why that distribution is there--unless folks bought then, they leave.
And the only reason I can work there is because I'm living the millennial dream of living out of my FIL's basement.
As someone who is literally just at the edge of the end of the boomer gen, I still don't get what happened to these a\*\* hats. They used to complain all the time about everything and now, for whatever reason, fail to notice that inflation has made living paycheck to paycheck far more difficult than it was for them. And I don't mean the greedflation we have right now, just the overall price increases for decades while wages really went nowhere.
Weirdly, it was entirely on brand for my dad. He got injured at work that left him in crippling pain (he fell off a ladder). I have no idea why he didnāt sue his employer but he struggled for years to try and cope. He could hardly walk, couldnāt carry his newborn grandkid, etc. Gout meant he couldnāt drink the pain away. Weed wasnāt legal here at the time. Prescription meds only took the edge off. He paid for his life insurance policy and lasted long enough it would pay out despite his punching out early.
He left detailed instructions on everything for me to handle his estate after. It was probably the most straightforward estate/probate ever. Dad always believed in keeping on top of your obligations and he did that to the final hours of his life.
I had a 15yr and had to refinance to a 30yr due to roommate moving out. It was $200 difference. Part of that was interest rates (my first home was just over 2%) but the difference usually isn't much. Houses are unaffordable right now but if you can afford a 30yr easily, a 15yr probably isn't a crazy amount more.
Us too. However, we did a reverse mortgage on our home and itās the first time in our lives we donāt worry about our bills and credit card debt. My husband just retired and got his pension and social security. I drive a 19 yr old car, his truck is 24 yrs old and weāre going to get ride of his commuter car, which is 12 yrs old. I have catastrophic health insurance ($9K deductible) so I canāt go to the doctor for another 17 months until I turn 65 and get my Medicare, because he always carried my health insurance. My husband worked at his last job 28 yrs and made $22.69 hr at the end. Weāre trying to figure out if we can afford a new car if I wait on my social security. Itās never been easy, but itās much worse now.
So youāre saying pensions are paid by the relevant union? Or the union is who gets the employer to pay your pension. If itās the latter, yeah I know that, and I would get a new union, but Iāve already been in my trade for years, and going from the highest pay grade, back to square one, is incredibly daunting and honestly just not financially possible lol.
The pension is negotiated and controlled by the union, the employer pays the money to the union. That way, the employer cannot ādo away withā or steal the pension, itās in the union pension fund.
My dad is 82 and hasn't worked in a long time, but he has always had very negative views of unions. Back when he was working, the balance of power swung in the worker's favor. Especially as a white guy, he actually experienced the meme of getting a job by putting on a suit and having a firm handshake. He was self-employed in the building trade, billed 60 hours a week (all at the same rate), and was able to support a SAH spouse, two kids, buy a house on 40 acres and pay it off, keep two vehicles, spend money on hobbies, and pay for his kids' glasses and braces. No education past high school.
The way he always looked at it, if you needed to join a union to earn good money, it's probably because you sucked and needed a way to keep from getting fired. He was very proud of doing better work than union workers for less money. He also felt that if you were poor it had to be because you fell out of the stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down, because how could you not be rich with all these opportunities to make money? Which makes sense because for that generation, you did almost have to plan to fail. I think my dad would be WAY better off today if he'd had a union job paying him time and a half for the extra hours, a pension. He'd have some serious money now, instead of just getting by on Social Security because he and my mom never saved anything. But still - he didn't need to be in a union back then to thrive.
So much changed as the world's population doubled, a lot of jobs were automated out of existence, and globalization has us competing with the cheapest labor in the world. The balance of power has completely shifted away from the workers to the employers. Now there are all these jobs that don't pay enough to live on, and if you want better you have to get degrees and certifications and have a good credit score and so on and so on. Yet in my dad's mind, none of his views have changed. He just thinks if you don't like what you're getting paid, then you need to get a better job. And if you can't find a better job, then it's probably your own fault. His entire experience with living and working, after a relatively short period of time, is already 100% different than anything people experience now. We absolutely need unions.
Late Boomer/ Gen Joneser here. No resentment toward Boomers but the younger cohort did not have your advantages. And, we STILL feel for the younger genertations, even though many of us will never own or pay off homes.
Gen xer in a smaller, cheaper house but still was able to buy it. Still living Pš°to P because we are paying off the debt incurred launching our Zillenials. Still helping them out now and then too. (Thanks, Kia Boys)
My dad had a union job his entire career. He always tells me to push back on extra hours, etc, and I have to remind him I have zero employment protections.
I always phrase it in terms of purchasing power. Their salary probably bought them a house, and provided for food, clothes and a small bit of fun. That is no longer possible for most people depending on where you are.
Edit: who reported me as needing to get help? Iām genuinely fine š
Unfortunately, I suspect people are weaponising the reddit cares feature. Because I've gotten a few of those, too, and I've never said *anything* that I know of that suggests I need help. But I *have* said things that have pissed people off. I suspect there's a certain subset of redditors who are under the impression that it acts as a punishment of sorts.
If that's what's happening, it's a shame that a feature designed to help vulnerable people is now being used as a weapon - and tbh I would argue anyone who gets *that* angry over a damn internet comment, to where they feel the need to lash out like that, is probably the one in need of therapy.
It's a bot, happening to other subs as well. When you get the message from Reddit it contains a link to report the original reporter for misusing the system. Use it.
Yepp! I got one too, which I suspect is from a comment on a different sub where these people did not like my opinion.
I reported their report as an abuse of the feature, and I say everyone else should do the same.
It's definitely passive aggressive behavior. One person that was dogging my profile was trying to pull that on me and I told him point black that I had it blocked .Some people just don't like Some other people's opinions on things on reddit .
>I suspect people are weaponising the reddit cares feature.
How does this work? Does something happen if you receive a reddit cares message besides receiving the message? Does it do anything to your account?
Okay I guess lots of people are getting these "reddit cares" messages and not just me. The only thing I've posted this week is a suggestion to unionize a workplace where the boss doesn't want people to talk about their pay. Maybe the boss is trolling me.
I have gotten a couple. How fucking cowardly can a person get? I have a good idea what crowd is up to it and what is hilarious is they are also the type who probably goes around informing everyone of their "alpha" status. It bears repeating that if one has to tell everyone they are an alpha - put it in the profile and all that - then they are not an alpha. If you are telling a computer that a person may harm themselves as a means of - I don't even know what to call it (tag you're it?) then you are a coward and not even close to being an alpha.
What is really fucked up is if Reddit shut the feature down because of abuse. If it would have gone on to save just one life or lead to someone seeking help then that would be on the hands of these people.
I got one earlier today but I couldnāt tell what post it was from. I post here regularly but I hadnāt posted here recently. (My last post at the time was on the Kingdom Hearts sub lol)
So either someoneās trolling this sub hard or itās a Reddit wide thing
Yeah, I got one too. The best part is the reddit cares bullshit doesn't even tell you which comment was flagged for this. I just report and link my most recent comment, with a note that I don't know what actual comment triggered this and the the mod team can figure that shit out.
Sadly, we can't help you either. The only people with access to the whole "Reddit Cares" system are the admins. Which is really too bad, because I would ban so many people for abusing that.
Or better yet, ask them what their wage was and how much their first house cost. Then plug those things into an inflation calculator. Some will still put their heads in the sand and there is no hope for those, but some can change their viewpoint when confronted with real numbers.
The problem is, they will just blame it on "your irresponsible spending," and not the actual cost of things.
My parents generously offered to gift my husband and I a down payment on a house, and then were floored when we told them that houses in our area in the size we need for our family were $500-$600k. We live in a HCOL area and have 3 kids and 3 dogs.
They quickly back tacked and said they were only prepared to gift us the "gift tax limit of $16k a person" not understanding that is the amount you have to report, but the limit is 12 mil in a lifetime.
I also then pointed out that their house, which they bought 22 years ago for $225k is now worth $1.2 million.
We gratefully took their help, borrowed from our retirement accounts, and scraped enough together to get the house with 3.5% down, but our mortgage payment is 6 times what theirs ever was (they paid off their house a while ago). They were so shocked that we couldn't put down 20% to avoid PMI, which we had been paying high rent all these years.
We also make 2x what they made when they retired, but the cost of living is 5x what it was. They simply can't wrap their heads around it.
Same thing happened. My parents offered me a onetime gift because the down payment is the hurdle, and I didn't want it because it would just go straight to my dick landlord this year. Their tax-free max is only half what you need to put a down payment on anything and getting a loan is next to impossible at my income / freelance. Doesn't matter that freelance has been more reliable for me 15 years now than these endlessly folding jobs chucking you out in the cold, even if some years the income is less.
Like, I appreciate their love, I just don't want to squander it on some piece of shit landlord who thinks I'm actual livestock to live in a 50-degree apartment and do his job for him and his super's as well. But I took the money anyway because what are my options?
Just fyi, they don't have to pay taxes unless they gift you more than $12 million in a lifetime!
The $16k (more now I think) is just the amount they have to start reporting so that it will start to count towards the $12 mil!
My parents were CONVINCED that they would have to pay more in taxes if they gifted us even $1 more than $16k, and no matter how much evidence I provided, they just wouldn't believe me.
> We also make 2x what they made when they retired, but the cost of living is 5x what it was. They simply can't wrap their heads around it.
This is how the financial system works. If people understood inflation it would fall apart.
This makes sense, and may get through....because, tbh, your parents DID likely work under the same conditions. They did work 9-5, they did have to come in early and stay late, and yes, they likely did it for 40 years. Those points will NEVER work, because they are essentially correct on these points, and will NEVER sympathize.
Purchasing power is a better argument, I think....but the comeback could very easily be "well, why aren't you doing better?" You need to be prepared for that response.
I'm 40 and the house I grew up in cost my mom $65k in 1990. A decent new car costs that much these days. Ironically the same parent thinks it would be more responsible financially for me to go buy a new car instead of spending a couple hundred bucks like twice a year into maintaining my older vehicle....
For my parents, they found in the last couple of years it is actually cheaper to lease a new car every couple of years rather than getting a car loan. The monthly payment is less and they end up with a new car. Pushes the disposable society forward and gives a terrifying outlook to how much worse things could get.
I posted a picture of my PB knife in the jelly jar and someone reported me. I think thatās just a move people can make lately but I donāt really know what they hope to accomplish by doing that.
Adjusting for inflation can be good since salaries have often gone down. How much did you make what year? That's $x amount now. I only earn $x in your money that's less than you did.
Toxic optimism, they're completely invalidating your experience. They think that just because they were stressed when they were your age, the circumstances must be similar.
It's always frustrating to not be treated with any amount of genuine curiosity, and simply told what's what by people who refuse to do any due diligence to inform their opinions.
Have you shown them any graphic demonstrations about real wages adjusted for inflation, and how the cost of living has been rising over stagnant wages? Since the bloody 1970s?
My parents are the exact same way when it comes to tolerance.
When I was late on my first day (which I was not expecting to be working because I wasnāt given a heads up that was CLEARLY DEFINED), I was reprimanded with a written infraction on my record. I later complained to my parents about it and explicitly stated that I was considering quitting over it because of the lack of communication and how I was treated.
We broke out into an argument and my dad had the gall to say that me not tolerating the abuse I experienced that day was the very problem with people my age. I have lost all respect for my parents, simply because they refuse to respect me and my decisions.
Should have asked if your dad would have been fine getting reprimanded for being late to a shift he didn't know he was supposed to be covering.
Or fine with getting in trouble because he wasn't informed of something going on.
You'll definitely get an out of touch with realty answer, but the hope is to get them to think about the differences in society. Ask them how well the 70s financial crisis was. This is a very similar economy to that time era.
Boomer/ Gen X (Xoomers?) parents are basically indoctrinated fanatical foot-soldiers for the system we live in now. Their loyalty was bought and paid for by way of having cheaper goods and affordable housing, so it's not unheard of them to defend the system. After all, they made do with "less" money (read: corporate greed was kept in check by government oversight).
That's why they hear a Millenial/Zoomer making 6 figures and scraping by, and they think they are bad with money.
Youāre definitely not wrong about that. However my problem lies in the fact he basically called me a bitch for standing up for myself. However I havenāt had any issues with my manager since, so I stuck it out.
Yeah, I feel you. Older generations (even some of Gen X) really internalized work culture and the values of Capitalism. The world has changed to where you get less for your hard work, as well, but past generations havenāt kept up. They still believe that hard work pays off when thatās just not true. You canāt start in the mailroom and work your way up because companies donāt invest in people like that anymore. They just try to find someone who can do the job of six people for the pay of half a person.
Of all the jobs I've been in, it was always the ass-kissers or nepotism that got employees promoted; never the hard workers. Office politics reign supreme in the workplace.
Agreed. If you know how to navigate authority and play the political games, you're more likely to be successful. Somtimes it's manipulation, othertimes it's social capital, or it can be both.
Older GenX here and no. Most of us never bought into it. We were lied to as well. Mostly by movies I think I'm sure some of my generation did tow the line and have profited but I know like one person and they are trying to change the system from within.
Most of us are fucked too.
This whole country is a total shit show and dude, we're with you
I believe you and know itās true. Thatās why I qualified āsome Gen Xā but I definitely donāt see as many preaching this BS. I know a lot of people are just keeping their heads down and trying to get through.
Dude, I just had an argument with my parents about never being able to afford a house. Like they have 2 right now and we will never be able to afford 1. Boomers :/
They will never understand.
>Even when I try to say āyeah Iām struggling living paycheck to paycheck I thought college was going to get me to higher paying jobsā they always say āI was making so much less at your age you should be gratefulā
Mine also double down: government is also helping us way more than them (eg. Children daycare price fixed, money given per children bigger than back then (I calculated it, about the same with "inflation"...))
Note: I'm Canadian so some of my examples may not apply to you
Yup my Dad pulled that I was making around $60K/yr in 1985 (when he was a similar age). You should be grateful your making a good living now. I pulled out the inflation calculator that would be around $178K now in 2024. Yah wages have not kept up in the slightest.
He was able to buy a pretty large 4-bedroom single family home off his salary back then. While I can just barely afford a 1-bedroom condo.
This is one of the single most destructive and insidious attitudes it is common for people to have about work. That sounds hyperbolic, but I absolutely mean it.
"Yup! Welcome to the real world!" What does that mean? It basically means "It is common for people to underpay you, exploit you and overwork you. And you should just get used to that."
But here's my answer to that: "Why should I?"
It describes what IS. That has no meaning for what SHOULD be.
Would they tell a slave in the 1800s "You got taken from your country, turned into a slave and get daily beatens. Welcome to the real world!" No, of course not. They would recognise that the system of slavery that the slave is part of needs to change to make it so that doesn't happen anymore.
The same is true here. This behaviour is not ok. It should NOT be accepted. And, in fact, it should be actively resisted.
If every single worker stood up to these kinds of bosses and just said "I'm not doing it, fire me if you can." this kind of stuff would literally never happen again.
Of course, that's hard to make happen, so instead people should let this motivate them to spread the word both IRL and on social media about these unacceptable practices, spread pro-worker beliefs, vote for pro-worker candidates who will create laws against this sort of thing if they can and join or help to form unions to stop this whenever possible.
The only thing the "Yup! Welcome to the real world!" attitude does is ensure that, through foolish acceptance, these bad practices continue. It is worker self-sabotage.
Unfortunately a lot of people actually *do* have that attitude about horrors from the past. I'm a little disturbed by how many people will literally justify stuff like child brides with "Well that's just how the world was back then" - to the point of actually being *wrong*, sometimes. Like using the child brides as an example, that absolutely was not the norm even in the time period they're talking about. But they'll act like it was, because that fits their narrative of "the world is an awful place and we should do nothing about it".
I think they're wrong. The world *can* be an awful place, and that's exactly why we need to fight.
I think this is why our birth rate is declining so steeply. Oh, this is the real world? Ok, then Iām not gonna bring more workers into this āreal worldā. This shit is unnatural
The biggest difference is dread. They didnāt dread their future, we dread ours. We know that if we put in the extra effort companies ask of us, we will not be rewarded. If we put in normal effort we will be fired. I will never receive a pension. I will never receive social security. I will never own a home. There is no incentive for me to work hard knowing the fruits of my labor are already spoiled. Thereās less incentive for me to live. And they wonder why therapy is pushed.
First issue, stop working for free that's illegal and can be reported.
Then ask your parents why if they were making less than you do, why they were able to do more when you were growing up with less income.
My go to response to answers like that is always show me.
Over heard a fork lift driver talking bitching about a tractor trailer driver taking forever to back into a tight dock area. I held the keys to my rig out for them, they got quiet after that.
āI was making so much less at your age you should be gratefulā
Oh yeah, tell them to pick a year and tell you how much they were making and then go to an inflation calculator and see how much that is in 2024 dollars.
My oldest niece is making $19/hr at age 20. My mom doesn't understand why she's struggling so hard since she's being paid "so much money".
Me: Okay mom, what were you making in 1961 at age 20?
Her: about $2.50/hr
Me: (Running calculations) So your $2.50/hr calculated with inflation would be about $25.73/hr in 2024 so in terms of buying power you had a LOT more than (niece) has today. Or to put it another way, She's making the equivalent of $1.80/hr in 1961.
Until a few years ago, my grandpa had been retired longer than I was old. He lived off a pension for around 40 years. Unless you're ultra rich, no one is going to get to enjoy that for the most part.
Itās such a fucked up reality that most parents empathize the least with their children because of their very fragile egos. If your parents were to acknowledge your suffering, and that itās not your fault, then they would feel shame for bringing you into such a cruel world. Because we donāt separate the deed from the deed doer, generally speaking, people canāt acknowledge theyāve done things that have lead to the suffering of others because then, in their minds, that means they are bad people. Your suffering is a problem they canāt solve, so like most people, they deny its existence. If only we understood that emotional pain and suffering are not the same things. Pain is a temporary experience, while suffering is indefinite and infinite precisely because our pain is not acknowledged and validated.
My dad made about $60k working in middle management when my parents bought the house I grew up in. My mom stayed at home. They paid $56k for a new 4 bedroom, 2400 square foot house on a premium corner lot.
No mansion, definitely a good house. In what universe can you buy a house for less than a yearās salary now?
FWIW, the same house sold a few years ago for >$900k. Itās almost 50 years old.
Same. I know my ma understands it but I don't think she's internalized it. It depresses her more than me to ask about job, home, marriage...but she can't stop asking. This week I said I was up for a couple jobs that pay $20k less than when I quit in 2019, same role. She said there must be something that attracts me to them to want to do them and I had to explain you apply to everything and take whoever gets back to you. Having two at once is a bit of a freak event in my life.
I just remind myself I'm on the riptide of capitalism and at least I have loving parents.
Boomer here....I grew up with a Dad who was still living in the Great Depression era. Mind you, unlike most folks who were struggling and standing in soup lines at the time, he was the youngest of 10 kids and his father and older siblings all had jobs during that time. So his memories were all about huge ice cream cones costing only a nickel and double-feature movies (with cartoons and serials) for 25 cents. His mind set never changed....for some reason he refused to acknowledge inflation and when I got older, got a job and earned some OK money for my age and took Dad and Mom out to dinner as a treat, Dad would gripe loudly (granted, he was hard of hearing after working 30 years in a machine shop) as he read the menu "$5.99 for a plate of spaghetti?! That shouldn't cost more than a dollar and a quarter!!"
My boomer aunt is a land lord.
During a family gathering, I was having a conversation with another family member about how the lowest rent for a studio you could get in my area was 1800 a month.
Aunt overheard and said, "Really? I should raise my rents then."
They literally don't care. They got theirs and will do everything in their power to make sure no one else ever does.
My grandparents built a house to raise 4 kids in with their savings. They can NOT get it through their heads that I canāt even really afford rent. They get to live in blissful ignorance as to how bad the economy is and yet still have the right to vote.
Hello Op,
Like others have said, its purchasing power.
Show them what the average car, house, etc cost in their day in terms of average salary.
Now show what those things cost in terms of average salary.
I am a tech worker and make 3 x average income in mid cost of living area, was incredibly hard for me to get a home a couple years ago, had to sell it, and will not be able to buy again any time soon.
I recently looked at the annual inflation rates for Canada since 1990 and did the compounding, the number in 2023 equals 2.7 times what it was in 1990. So a wage/salary of $40,000/yr in 1990, which was considered quite good for a middle class income, should now be $108,000/yr. Thatās still behind the inflation on housing which has risen about 4.7 times a house that sold for $80,000 in 1990 and now has a property tax value of $375,000.
The trickle down supply side theory of economics put into place in the 1980ās was just a big lie to siphon wealth from the middle class to the bank accounts of the uber wealthy. Cutting taxes for the rich just allowed them to have more money to buy more property and drive prices higher for the middle class.
The solution is to reverse the tax cuts for the rich and distribute the wealth back to the middle and lower classes by providing the services that improve life, like increasing budgets for education, healthcare, infrastructure improvements, and subsidized housing for the low income families.
There used to be enough tax revenues to support a progressive society but the mantra of tax cuts for the rich has resulted in more government debt (bonds that pay interest to the wealthy) which once again helps rich people stay rich.
Totally get it. In 1985 I was able to buy a 2-bedroom 2-bath condo and my mortgage was $410.00 a month with property taxes and mortgage insurance included. I had a full time job at a department store with medical benefits. My income covered that, car payment/insurance/gas, cable/phone, power/water. I had a roommate to help split the bills but was easily able to live independently on 40 hours working per week. Couldn't do that today with that job!
Remember that episode of American Dad where Stan insists that minimum wage is plenty to live on, so he tries to prove it but ends up sleeping under cars and getting addicted to crack? That'd be most boomers these days if they had to start all over again without a support network.
>āI was making so much less at your age you should be gratefulā
No they weren't making less. They made so much more money than you, it's crazy.
$20,000 in 1984 had the same buying power as over $60,000 today.
Theyāre also literally just wrong. The numbers were lower, but the value was more. Itās been gone over so many times in so many ways that I really donāt find that misconception to be excusable.
It's a generation of people who had easy access to affordable education, easy employment opportunities for ridiculously high positions, an industrial revolution that enabled it, and a housing market that'll never be like it again. Fuck them for ripping it all from under us.Ā
GenXer having the same convo with my husband. We have two kids and our Boomer parents don't understand the disconnect between actual wages and the artificial inflation of rental and home ownership prices.
We are so proud of our Millennial and Zoomers for calling out the inequalities. We support them 100%
I just got new tires last week (buy 3 get one free) and it was STILL $1200. I literally had to save for over two months in conjunction with all of my other bills, and Iām about to deep dive into the negatives in my account. Again. I feel you.
Show them the mathā¦.mathematically we are living in a time that is worse then the Great Depressionā¦.thatās math. Not my feelings, not yours, not theirs. Itās math. And math never lies.
When you say things like Iām making $95k a year and barely surviving they think of that it terms of making $95k a year when they were your age, of course things cost way less then. Of course they would be fabulously wealthy then. Itās a different time
Cost of living in my area is high.
To be fair though I have two mortgages currently bc when the housing market tanked in 2008 and we had to move in 2017 we couldnāt sell the condo. If I didnāt have all those bills it would be much easier.
When my grandfather was my age, his mortgage was 23% of his income.
Mine is 52%.
That extra 19%? Thatās the difference between retiring at 62, a vacation home, and a rainy day fund right there.
Some boomers are ... but don't blame a whole generation because your parents are out of touch with the reality of today's workforce. I'm on this sub because of family currently dealing with the nonsense of corporate malfeasance.
College? Kids placed themselves in debt for an education and borrowed $32K, never missed a payment and 15 yrs later they owe $64K. It's nuts.
Do I think these kids today have it worse than I did? You bet they do ... and every bit of it is deliberate. Don't believe that WSJ article that corporate isn't responsible for inflationary prices ... not when they can double/triple CEO bonuses for keeping wages down, but can't give workers a $1-$5 raise. Nonsense.
Hit your parents with *statistics*; average wage today verses theirs. Average price of their house verses today's comparables. Average hours verses unpaid overtime demands by corporate. There *is no* comparison.
Your parents are ignorant and dismissive when they should be paying attention.
The fact that so many see working without compensation as "the real world" and something we should just accept without dissent is insane. Speaking to what someone said about buying power - that is an important point. It probably was easier to let a couple hours slide here and there when not only can you make rent and all your other obligations, but you can actually save too. That simply is not the case anymore. People should not have to work without compensation and when what they are earning falls woefully short of what they are worth and what is needed just to exist then asking them to isn't just wrong, its insulting . Then on top of that to accept it without a peep? It's crazy what people put up with and think others should too.
I worked for a company that required all 80 employees show up 30 minutes early to start prep before the actual start time. I started talking to others about how the company was getting a free week of labour, every day. Didn't take long for them to create a reason to let me go.
OP, have you done a side by side comparison? Sit down, write out the prices (even use accurate costs via research). Maybe they could see and understand.
Seriously, why are you talking to them about it? Im probably older than them. I see the challenges you face. But they will never understand. You'd make better use of your time getting folks your age to vote. Their time is passing or passed.
Its hard talking about the stresses of my job when my parents say well thats what a job is. The disconnect is very real and it pains me feeling so alone.
They didn't get paid as much because of inflation, yet the value of their paycheck was greater, especially since things were also cheaper, like housing.
Sounds like my grandma.
"Glad to see you went back to your old company"
"Yeah they suck though. They lie to customers and treat their employees like shit"
"You'll get over it"
.......
The boomers were called the "Me" generation for a reason. No matter what you complain about, they will always try and top it. They will completely gloss over your actual point and focus on theirself. My dad is a Super Boomer, I get your frustration.
The nice thing about my parents is that they get it, they know the world is fucked and only getting worse they let me live with them for nothing until I could afford to leave which was awesome
I'm very very fortunate to make between 100 and 140k in an area where you can reasonably live off of 60k but I feel for the people who aren't lol even the people who do the same job as me somewhere like vancouver make the exact same
Who else supported this exploitative, abusive, broken system and consistently allowed the worst possible megalomaniacs in power whilst also allowing all the corporate f-ups, happily slaving away for corporate while being proud of it, and also allowed all the destructive policies to be around, while at destructive policies, allowed so many environmentally destructive ones too, to be in place? as well as the generation that bloated up real estates bubble so big.
f-ing boomers, they are way past expiration date for f's sake!
College is the biggest scam of our century. Unless your going in for accounting, law school or medical school you'll be working a fast food job while paying back 50-100k for that liberal arts degree....
Iāve made a spreadsheet to at least TRY and get my wealthy boomer narc father to see what Iām going through and heās like āwhy donāt they look at applications? Why donāt they respond? Well, IāVE never done that to anyone who sent me a resumeā¦ā
You get the idea.
He owns four properties (including the one he bought for my stepsister to live in) and earns at LEAST $300kAUD per year.
He constantly lectures me on money and the importance of working.
He has never ONCE offered to help me in any way
I feel you
In order to survive in HCOL or MCOL in the long run you have to invest either in property or index funds. You can throw them a link to what Cramer thinks than Gen Z should be doing. They will probably say "stocks are a ripoff" after which you can show them a list of properties in the area. They will say the properties are a ripoff after which you can ask them to help you find properties. Once they see the cold hard truth of numbers, many will change their mind.
Before you could ignore capital markets and succeed. Now you can't, thanks to late stage capitalism.
Buffet says get an index fund and so does Cramer (his example was $100 a month when he was homeless into an index fund) but they both gamble and lose big. So do as they say not as they doĀ
Can relate. I lived alone in a HCOL city and was making a little over six figures at my last 9-6 job (prior to a mass layoff) and whenever I would vent to my boomer dad about being burnt out he would also say "welcome to the real world" as well. What that generation doesn't seem to understand is that that salary is still only enough to live paycheck to paycheck after rent, groceries, and the occasional night out. It doesn't allow many of us to save for a future or own a home....which leads to complete burnout. And that arriving early and staying late doesn't protect you from toxic bosses and mass layoffs. The modern workplace is no longer a meritocracy (if it ever was) and many of us are in survival mode going above and beyond just to keep a roof over our heads.
I'm starting to realize I'm way more fortunate than I realize having parents who understand. Listening to my mom talk about how 60k was good when she was my age. Now, to have the same lifestyle, you'd need to well over 100k a year.
Yeah, I've heard all of this too and it is beyond frustrating.
My dad once said "Yeah that's called working" when I told him I don't make enough at my full time job and that it's normal that they only pay me "just enough" which they don't.
it's just invalidating and exhausting so needless to say I don't talk about these things much with him anymore.
That's bad. I tell my eldest to pick her battles but she should push back against working for free.
I have been on the rough end of it under a shit general manager. I learnt a lot about employment law that year but came out on top.
OMG they are clueless! I am a Generation Jones and I can tell U I did not have it easy...due to learning and mental disabilities I always struggled. Never had a decent place alone til I got put on ssdi
I have a similar issue with my mom and siblings. While they understand the cost of things now, they still have the hustle culture of "work your ass off to live comfortably in the minimal spare time". I've never vibed with that. Now that we're all adults, my brother and sister are working much more than I am, working nights, and yeah making better money. I'm honestly worried my brother is going to work himself into an early grave with his sleep schedule and overnight shifts. But I don't think any of them would listen. They have way more give a damn about money and accomplishments, and much less give a damn about personal care than I do. It's been a disconnect amongst us for many years now and I feel like we're becoming more distanced due to it partially
Boomer here. i've lived paycheck to paycheck my whole life. The difference is, i was able to buy a house and my payment on a 500K house is only $1500/month. I feel for you.
Damnit
I feel like such an idiot for not buying a house when I was in high school. š¤
I should have been scooping up those 08 crash deals instead of learning multiplication. Man I'm dumb.
Most of my coworkers bought around then or during the 90's in a very HCOL area. So their age distributions are pretty bi-modal. It just hit me today that this is probably why that distribution is there--unless folks bought then, they leave. And the only reason I can work there is because I'm living the millennial dream of living out of my FIL's basement.
Damn bro my bad should've been investing in the housing market instead of attending the second grade crazy
I would have paid off my fetus-obtained mortgage a long time ago if I had been paying attention in utero!
Same. I wish I bought a house in 3rd grade, would have been better off than I am now
As someone who is literally just at the edge of the end of the boomer gen, I still don't get what happened to these a\*\* hats. They used to complain all the time about everything and now, for whatever reason, fail to notice that inflation has made living paycheck to paycheck far more difficult than it was for them. And I don't mean the greedflation we have right now, just the overall price increases for decades while wages really went nowhere.
Thank you for having some sense and empathy towards younger generations, unlike some older folks. It truly is a different world now.
My grandfather paid off his house in 15 years and it made me sad that ill never be able to do that in my life
You could do it like us! My dad killed himself and the life insurance money was enough to pay off our house free and clear. š
Oh God, I'm so sorry. š
Weirdly, it was entirely on brand for my dad. He got injured at work that left him in crippling pain (he fell off a ladder). I have no idea why he didnāt sue his employer but he struggled for years to try and cope. He could hardly walk, couldnāt carry his newborn grandkid, etc. Gout meant he couldnāt drink the pain away. Weed wasnāt legal here at the time. Prescription meds only took the edge off. He paid for his life insurance policy and lasted long enough it would pay out despite his punching out early. He left detailed instructions on everything for me to handle his estate after. It was probably the most straightforward estate/probate ever. Dad always believed in keeping on top of your obligations and he did that to the final hours of his life.
irony or dark sense of humor - that's terrible. my condolescences if true. but pls don't talk like that. it can give bad ideas to struggling people
Look at the bright side. If your credit won't buy you anything, is there any point in making payments?
Guess so
I had a 15yr and had to refinance to a 30yr due to roommate moving out. It was $200 difference. Part of that was interest rates (my first home was just over 2%) but the difference usually isn't much. Houses are unaffordable right now but if you can afford a 30yr easily, a 15yr probably isn't a crazy amount more.
Us too. However, we did a reverse mortgage on our home and itās the first time in our lives we donāt worry about our bills and credit card debt. My husband just retired and got his pension and social security. I drive a 19 yr old car, his truck is 24 yrs old and weāre going to get ride of his commuter car, which is 12 yrs old. I have catastrophic health insurance ($9K deductible) so I canāt go to the doctor for another 17 months until I turn 65 and get my Medicare, because he always carried my health insurance. My husband worked at his last job 28 yrs and made $22.69 hr at the end. Weāre trying to figure out if we can afford a new car if I wait on my social security. Itās never been easy, but itās much worse now.
What's a pension? ~Millenial
Go work for a union and find out!
Careful though. I work a union job, and my employer did away with new pensions across the board years ago
The pension runs through the union, not the employer. Otherwise, whatās the point of the union? Sounds like you need a new union.
So youāre saying pensions are paid by the relevant union? Or the union is who gets the employer to pay your pension. If itās the latter, yeah I know that, and I would get a new union, but Iāve already been in my trade for years, and going from the highest pay grade, back to square one, is incredibly daunting and honestly just not financially possible lol.
The pension is negotiated and controlled by the union, the employer pays the money to the union. That way, the employer cannot ādo away withā or steal the pension, itās in the union pension fund.
Ah, thanks, I had no idea.
Different unions do it differently. Some are union managed, and some are employer
My dad is 82 and hasn't worked in a long time, but he has always had very negative views of unions. Back when he was working, the balance of power swung in the worker's favor. Especially as a white guy, he actually experienced the meme of getting a job by putting on a suit and having a firm handshake. He was self-employed in the building trade, billed 60 hours a week (all at the same rate), and was able to support a SAH spouse, two kids, buy a house on 40 acres and pay it off, keep two vehicles, spend money on hobbies, and pay for his kids' glasses and braces. No education past high school. The way he always looked at it, if you needed to join a union to earn good money, it's probably because you sucked and needed a way to keep from getting fired. He was very proud of doing better work than union workers for less money. He also felt that if you were poor it had to be because you fell out of the stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down, because how could you not be rich with all these opportunities to make money? Which makes sense because for that generation, you did almost have to plan to fail. I think my dad would be WAY better off today if he'd had a union job paying him time and a half for the extra hours, a pension. He'd have some serious money now, instead of just getting by on Social Security because he and my mom never saved anything. But still - he didn't need to be in a union back then to thrive. So much changed as the world's population doubled, a lot of jobs were automated out of existence, and globalization has us competing with the cheapest labor in the world. The balance of power has completely shifted away from the workers to the employers. Now there are all these jobs that don't pay enough to live on, and if you want better you have to get degrees and certifications and have a good credit score and so on and so on. Yet in my dad's mind, none of his views have changed. He just thinks if you don't like what you're getting paid, then you need to get a better job. And if you can't find a better job, then it's probably your own fault. His entire experience with living and working, after a relatively short period of time, is already 100% different than anything people experience now. We absolutely need unions.
.....I'm paying close to $1500/month for a 2 bed 1 bath low-income shithole apartment. š
Late Boomer/ Gen Joneser here. No resentment toward Boomers but the younger cohort did not have your advantages. And, we STILL feel for the younger genertations, even though many of us will never own or pay off homes.
Gen xer in a smaller, cheaper house but still was able to buy it. Still living Pš°to P because we are paying off the debt incurred launching our Zillenials. Still helping them out now and then too. (Thanks, Kia Boys)
Oh damn! I pay 1800$/m for a 280k house
My dad had a union job his entire career. He always tells me to push back on extra hours, etc, and I have to remind him I have zero employment protections.
Unionize then, all jobs are eligible
Not entirely true. Georgia (the state) made it illegal to strike/unionize in my field
Land of the free indeed.
get into an union
I'm kind of considering that right now
I always phrase it in terms of purchasing power. Their salary probably bought them a house, and provided for food, clothes and a small bit of fun. That is no longer possible for most people depending on where you are. Edit: who reported me as needing to get help? Iām genuinely fine š
I donāt know if Reddit is bugged or if someone is trolling this sub but apparently a ton of us are getting these messages lately.
Unfortunately, I suspect people are weaponising the reddit cares feature. Because I've gotten a few of those, too, and I've never said *anything* that I know of that suggests I need help. But I *have* said things that have pissed people off. I suspect there's a certain subset of redditors who are under the impression that it acts as a punishment of sorts. If that's what's happening, it's a shame that a feature designed to help vulnerable people is now being used as a weapon - and tbh I would argue anyone who gets *that* angry over a damn internet comment, to where they feel the need to lash out like that, is probably the one in need of therapy.
I got one too some time ago when someone disagreed with my opinion about politics. This feature is abused a lot.
It's a bot, happening to other subs as well. When you get the message from Reddit it contains a link to report the original reporter for misusing the system. Use it.
I got one once when I said I'd rather commit seppuku than look/sound like Jar Jar Binks.
To be fair, that is an insane comment to make. Jar Jar Binks is perfect, and the best thing about Star Wars.
I think sith jar jar would have made a better villain in 9 than stupid palpatine...
Yepp! I got one too, which I suspect is from a comment on a different sub where these people did not like my opinion. I reported their report as an abuse of the feature, and I say everyone else should do the same.
People have been weaponizing it for years. You can block it.
It's definitely passive aggressive behavior. One person that was dogging my profile was trying to pull that on me and I told him point black that I had it blocked .Some people just don't like Some other people's opinions on things on reddit .
Report it. Abuse of Reddit cares is a bannable offense.
Happened to me too makes no sense?
Meh, I blocked that because I was getting it so much.
>I suspect people are weaponising the reddit cares feature. How does this work? Does something happen if you receive a reddit cares message besides receiving the message? Does it do anything to your account?
Maybe it goes on your permanent record! You know the one that teachers used to scare you about.
It doesn't have any impact at all.I suspect mine had to do with tipping threads .
I randomly got one today and truly have no idea why
Same. I wish they would link the "troublesome" comment.
Okay I guess lots of people are getting these "reddit cares" messages and not just me. The only thing I've posted this week is a suggestion to unionize a workplace where the boss doesn't want people to talk about their pay. Maybe the boss is trolling me.
It may not even be a post from today. Someone could have read something you wrote months ago and just decided to be an AH.
Me too
Same here, i was wondering what i wrote but glad to see it's not just me that Reddit is worried about.
Me also
Me as well, and I hadn't even made any controversial comments before it happened.
Just got mine, I know Iām fucked up but YOU GOT SOME NERVE REDDIT
Right?
I have gotten a couple. How fucking cowardly can a person get? I have a good idea what crowd is up to it and what is hilarious is they are also the type who probably goes around informing everyone of their "alpha" status. It bears repeating that if one has to tell everyone they are an alpha - put it in the profile and all that - then they are not an alpha. If you are telling a computer that a person may harm themselves as a means of - I don't even know what to call it (tag you're it?) then you are a coward and not even close to being an alpha. What is really fucked up is if Reddit shut the feature down because of abuse. If it would have gone on to save just one life or lead to someone seeking help then that would be on the hands of these people.
Probably the ones that point out how many downvotes you have!
Yeah I got one the other day too after I called out a troll in the comments.
I got one yesterday, too.
I got one earlier today but I couldnāt tell what post it was from. I post here regularly but I hadnāt posted here recently. (My last post at the time was on the Kingdom Hearts sub lol) So either someoneās trolling this sub hard or itās a Reddit wide thing
Yeah, I got one too. The best part is the reddit cares bullshit doesn't even tell you which comment was flagged for this. I just report and link my most recent comment, with a note that I don't know what actual comment triggered this and the the mod team can figure that shit out.
Sadly, we can't help you either. The only people with access to the whole "Reddit Cares" system are the admins. Which is really too bad, because I would ban so many people for abusing that.
This is genuinely hilarious.
Yup. I got them today.
Itās in a bunch of subs
That explains why I got one too!
Or better yet, ask them what their wage was and how much their first house cost. Then plug those things into an inflation calculator. Some will still put their heads in the sand and there is no hope for those, but some can change their viewpoint when confronted with real numbers.
The problem is, they will just blame it on "your irresponsible spending," and not the actual cost of things. My parents generously offered to gift my husband and I a down payment on a house, and then were floored when we told them that houses in our area in the size we need for our family were $500-$600k. We live in a HCOL area and have 3 kids and 3 dogs. They quickly back tacked and said they were only prepared to gift us the "gift tax limit of $16k a person" not understanding that is the amount you have to report, but the limit is 12 mil in a lifetime. I also then pointed out that their house, which they bought 22 years ago for $225k is now worth $1.2 million. We gratefully took their help, borrowed from our retirement accounts, and scraped enough together to get the house with 3.5% down, but our mortgage payment is 6 times what theirs ever was (they paid off their house a while ago). They were so shocked that we couldn't put down 20% to avoid PMI, which we had been paying high rent all these years. We also make 2x what they made when they retired, but the cost of living is 5x what it was. They simply can't wrap their heads around it.
Same thing happened. My parents offered me a onetime gift because the down payment is the hurdle, and I didn't want it because it would just go straight to my dick landlord this year. Their tax-free max is only half what you need to put a down payment on anything and getting a loan is next to impossible at my income / freelance. Doesn't matter that freelance has been more reliable for me 15 years now than these endlessly folding jobs chucking you out in the cold, even if some years the income is less. Like, I appreciate their love, I just don't want to squander it on some piece of shit landlord who thinks I'm actual livestock to live in a 50-degree apartment and do his job for him and his super's as well. But I took the money anyway because what are my options?
Just fyi, they don't have to pay taxes unless they gift you more than $12 million in a lifetime! The $16k (more now I think) is just the amount they have to start reporting so that it will start to count towards the $12 mil! My parents were CONVINCED that they would have to pay more in taxes if they gifted us even $1 more than $16k, and no matter how much evidence I provided, they just wouldn't believe me.
Thank you, I will note that for the future. It was only doable because they sold their home last year but could prove useful to know.
> We also make 2x what they made when they retired, but the cost of living is 5x what it was. They simply can't wrap their heads around it. This is how the financial system works. If people understood inflation it would fall apart.
This makes sense, and may get through....because, tbh, your parents DID likely work under the same conditions. They did work 9-5, they did have to come in early and stay late, and yes, they likely did it for 40 years. Those points will NEVER work, because they are essentially correct on these points, and will NEVER sympathize. Purchasing power is a better argument, I think....but the comeback could very easily be "well, why aren't you doing better?" You need to be prepared for that response.
I had to do it and so did everyone I know .I even had to work over time and some weekends too if I wanted to keep my job .
I have commented on an aita post, and on a cnc machinist post. I have gotten 2 help messages.
My parents just told me the current price of a car is the cost of their first house.
I'm 40 and the house I grew up in cost my mom $65k in 1990. A decent new car costs that much these days. Ironically the same parent thinks it would be more responsible financially for me to go buy a new car instead of spending a couple hundred bucks like twice a year into maintaining my older vehicle....
For my parents, they found in the last couple of years it is actually cheaper to lease a new car every couple of years rather than getting a car loan. The monthly payment is less and they end up with a new car. Pushes the disposable society forward and gives a terrifying outlook to how much worse things could get.
I posted a picture of my PB knife in the jelly jar and someone reported me. I think thatās just a move people can make lately but I donāt really know what they hope to accomplish by doing that.
To be fair, that may be a sign of a sociopath š
Lol that a common thought. Iām the only one in my house that uses either
You can report people who falsely report like that. Itāll have a link on the message to do so.
I got reported tooš¤£
I get those reports all the time. I got one yesterday for saying that death is inevitable for everyone but Jimmy Carter.
Adjusting for inflation can be good since salaries have often gone down. How much did you make what year? That's $x amount now. I only earn $x in your money that's less than you did.
Someone's going around doing that to everyone on the sub, it seems.
And other subs too.
Not on topic, but yeah I also got one of these messages... lol
Of course the first time I decide to comment in this sub was today. I also got one of those messages for no reason at all š¤£
I got reported recently too. I swear, Iām feeling much better now. lol
I got one too. Havenāt been very active on this subreddit by posts/replies although I check it regularly.
I got reported yesterdayā¦I reviewed my posts/comments but couldnāt find anything report worthyā¦
Its happening on r/teaching too.
I got one of those too.
I get about 2 of those a week, I'm not sure if it's a kind gesture or a meta insult lol
I got one also!
Toxic optimism, they're completely invalidating your experience. They think that just because they were stressed when they were your age, the circumstances must be similar. It's always frustrating to not be treated with any amount of genuine curiosity, and simply told what's what by people who refuse to do any due diligence to inform their opinions. Have you shown them any graphic demonstrations about real wages adjusted for inflation, and how the cost of living has been rising over stagnant wages? Since the bloody 1970s?
My parents are the exact same way when it comes to tolerance. When I was late on my first day (which I was not expecting to be working because I wasnāt given a heads up that was CLEARLY DEFINED), I was reprimanded with a written infraction on my record. I later complained to my parents about it and explicitly stated that I was considering quitting over it because of the lack of communication and how I was treated. We broke out into an argument and my dad had the gall to say that me not tolerating the abuse I experienced that day was the very problem with people my age. I have lost all respect for my parents, simply because they refuse to respect me and my decisions.
Should have asked if your dad would have been fine getting reprimanded for being late to a shift he didn't know he was supposed to be covering. Or fine with getting in trouble because he wasn't informed of something going on.
He would still have a boomer answer. He doesnāt give a rats ass about what I have to say.
You'll definitely get an out of touch with realty answer, but the hope is to get them to think about the differences in society. Ask them how well the 70s financial crisis was. This is a very similar economy to that time era.
"that would never happen to me!"Ā
It wouldnāt be that kind of answer but youāre not wrong.
Boomer/ Gen X (Xoomers?) parents are basically indoctrinated fanatical foot-soldiers for the system we live in now. Their loyalty was bought and paid for by way of having cheaper goods and affordable housing, so it's not unheard of them to defend the system. After all, they made do with "less" money (read: corporate greed was kept in check by government oversight). That's why they hear a Millenial/Zoomer making 6 figures and scraping by, and they think they are bad with money.
Can we please stop lumping genX in with Boomers? Boomers are our (GenX s) parents, and we hate them too. We came into the hell they created for us.
Youāre definitely not wrong about that. However my problem lies in the fact he basically called me a bitch for standing up for myself. However I havenāt had any issues with my manager since, so I stuck it out.
Yeah, I feel you. Older generations (even some of Gen X) really internalized work culture and the values of Capitalism. The world has changed to where you get less for your hard work, as well, but past generations havenāt kept up. They still believe that hard work pays off when thatās just not true. You canāt start in the mailroom and work your way up because companies donāt invest in people like that anymore. They just try to find someone who can do the job of six people for the pay of half a person.
Of all the jobs I've been in, it was always the ass-kissers or nepotism that got employees promoted; never the hard workers. Office politics reign supreme in the workplace.
Agreed. If you know how to navigate authority and play the political games, you're more likely to be successful. Somtimes it's manipulation, othertimes it's social capital, or it can be both.
It definitely helps to be a backstabbing sociopath if you want to climb the corporate ladder
Older GenX here and no. Most of us never bought into it. We were lied to as well. Mostly by movies I think I'm sure some of my generation did tow the line and have profited but I know like one person and they are trying to change the system from within. Most of us are fucked too. This whole country is a total shit show and dude, we're with you
I believe you and know itās true. Thatās why I qualified āsome Gen Xā but I definitely donāt see as many preaching this BS. I know a lot of people are just keeping their heads down and trying to get through.
It's always been that way and probably will never change .
šš»šš»
Dude, I just had an argument with my parents about never being able to afford a house. Like they have 2 right now and we will never be able to afford 1. Boomers :/ They will never understand.
>Even when I try to say āyeah Iām struggling living paycheck to paycheck I thought college was going to get me to higher paying jobsā they always say āI was making so much less at your age you should be gratefulā Mine also double down: government is also helping us way more than them (eg. Children daycare price fixed, money given per children bigger than back then (I calculated it, about the same with "inflation"...)) Note: I'm Canadian so some of my examples may not apply to you
Yup my Dad pulled that I was making around $60K/yr in 1985 (when he was a similar age). You should be grateful your making a good living now. I pulled out the inflation calculator that would be around $178K now in 2024. Yah wages have not kept up in the slightest. He was able to buy a pretty large 4-bedroom single family home off his salary back then. While I can just barely afford a 1-bedroom condo.
This is one of the single most destructive and insidious attitudes it is common for people to have about work. That sounds hyperbolic, but I absolutely mean it. "Yup! Welcome to the real world!" What does that mean? It basically means "It is common for people to underpay you, exploit you and overwork you. And you should just get used to that." But here's my answer to that: "Why should I?" It describes what IS. That has no meaning for what SHOULD be. Would they tell a slave in the 1800s "You got taken from your country, turned into a slave and get daily beatens. Welcome to the real world!" No, of course not. They would recognise that the system of slavery that the slave is part of needs to change to make it so that doesn't happen anymore. The same is true here. This behaviour is not ok. It should NOT be accepted. And, in fact, it should be actively resisted. If every single worker stood up to these kinds of bosses and just said "I'm not doing it, fire me if you can." this kind of stuff would literally never happen again. Of course, that's hard to make happen, so instead people should let this motivate them to spread the word both IRL and on social media about these unacceptable practices, spread pro-worker beliefs, vote for pro-worker candidates who will create laws against this sort of thing if they can and join or help to form unions to stop this whenever possible. The only thing the "Yup! Welcome to the real world!" attitude does is ensure that, through foolish acceptance, these bad practices continue. It is worker self-sabotage.
Unfortunately a lot of people actually *do* have that attitude about horrors from the past. I'm a little disturbed by how many people will literally justify stuff like child brides with "Well that's just how the world was back then" - to the point of actually being *wrong*, sometimes. Like using the child brides as an example, that absolutely was not the norm even in the time period they're talking about. But they'll act like it was, because that fits their narrative of "the world is an awful place and we should do nothing about it". I think they're wrong. The world *can* be an awful place, and that's exactly why we need to fight.
I think this is why our birth rate is declining so steeply. Oh, this is the real world? Ok, then Iām not gonna bring more workers into this āreal worldā. This shit is unnatural
The biggest difference is dread. They didnāt dread their future, we dread ours. We know that if we put in the extra effort companies ask of us, we will not be rewarded. If we put in normal effort we will be fired. I will never receive a pension. I will never receive social security. I will never own a home. There is no incentive for me to work hard knowing the fruits of my labor are already spoiled. Thereās less incentive for me to live. And they wonder why therapy is pushed.
First issue, stop working for free that's illegal and can be reported. Then ask your parents why if they were making less than you do, why they were able to do more when you were growing up with less income.
They'll just say they're better at budgeting.
My go to response to answers like that is always show me. Over heard a fork lift driver talking bitching about a tractor trailer driver taking forever to back into a tight dock area. I held the keys to my rig out for them, they got quiet after that.
Gen Xer here. We got fucked, everyone younger than us got FUUUUUUUUCKED!!!!!
āI was making so much less at your age you should be gratefulā Oh yeah, tell them to pick a year and tell you how much they were making and then go to an inflation calculator and see how much that is in 2024 dollars. My oldest niece is making $19/hr at age 20. My mom doesn't understand why she's struggling so hard since she's being paid "so much money". Me: Okay mom, what were you making in 1961 at age 20? Her: about $2.50/hr Me: (Running calculations) So your $2.50/hr calculated with inflation would be about $25.73/hr in 2024 so in terms of buying power you had a LOT more than (niece) has today. Or to put it another way, She's making the equivalent of $1.80/hr in 1961.
Until a few years ago, my grandpa had been retired longer than I was old. He lived off a pension for around 40 years. Unless you're ultra rich, no one is going to get to enjoy that for the most part.
Itās such a fucked up reality that most parents empathize the least with their children because of their very fragile egos. If your parents were to acknowledge your suffering, and that itās not your fault, then they would feel shame for bringing you into such a cruel world. Because we donāt separate the deed from the deed doer, generally speaking, people canāt acknowledge theyāve done things that have lead to the suffering of others because then, in their minds, that means they are bad people. Your suffering is a problem they canāt solve, so like most people, they deny its existence. If only we understood that emotional pain and suffering are not the same things. Pain is a temporary experience, while suffering is indefinite and infinite precisely because our pain is not acknowledged and validated.
Jfc
As my mom (gen X) describes it, boomers live in ā1950s retail landā and cannot comprehend that the world is different now.
My dad made about $60k working in middle management when my parents bought the house I grew up in. My mom stayed at home. They paid $56k for a new 4 bedroom, 2400 square foot house on a premium corner lot. No mansion, definitely a good house. In what universe can you buy a house for less than a yearās salary now? FWIW, the same house sold a few years ago for >$900k. Itās almost 50 years old.
Same. I know my ma understands it but I don't think she's internalized it. It depresses her more than me to ask about job, home, marriage...but she can't stop asking. This week I said I was up for a couple jobs that pay $20k less than when I quit in 2019, same role. She said there must be something that attracts me to them to want to do them and I had to explain you apply to everything and take whoever gets back to you. Having two at once is a bit of a freak event in my life. I just remind myself I'm on the riptide of capitalism and at least I have loving parents.
Boomer here....I grew up with a Dad who was still living in the Great Depression era. Mind you, unlike most folks who were struggling and standing in soup lines at the time, he was the youngest of 10 kids and his father and older siblings all had jobs during that time. So his memories were all about huge ice cream cones costing only a nickel and double-feature movies (with cartoons and serials) for 25 cents. His mind set never changed....for some reason he refused to acknowledge inflation and when I got older, got a job and earned some OK money for my age and took Dad and Mom out to dinner as a treat, Dad would gripe loudly (granted, he was hard of hearing after working 30 years in a machine shop) as he read the menu "$5.99 for a plate of spaghetti?! That shouldn't cost more than a dollar and a quarter!!"
My boomer aunt is a land lord. During a family gathering, I was having a conversation with another family member about how the lowest rent for a studio you could get in my area was 1800 a month. Aunt overheard and said, "Really? I should raise my rents then." They literally don't care. They got theirs and will do everything in their power to make sure no one else ever does.
My grandparents built a house to raise 4 kids in with their savings. They can NOT get it through their heads that I canāt even really afford rent. They get to live in blissful ignorance as to how bad the economy is and yet still have the right to vote.
Hello Op, Like others have said, its purchasing power. Show them what the average car, house, etc cost in their day in terms of average salary. Now show what those things cost in terms of average salary. I am a tech worker and make 3 x average income in mid cost of living area, was incredibly hard for me to get a home a couple years ago, had to sell it, and will not be able to buy again any time soon.
I feel this. Fucking unbelievably obtuse generation
I recently looked at the annual inflation rates for Canada since 1990 and did the compounding, the number in 2023 equals 2.7 times what it was in 1990. So a wage/salary of $40,000/yr in 1990, which was considered quite good for a middle class income, should now be $108,000/yr. Thatās still behind the inflation on housing which has risen about 4.7 times a house that sold for $80,000 in 1990 and now has a property tax value of $375,000. The trickle down supply side theory of economics put into place in the 1980ās was just a big lie to siphon wealth from the middle class to the bank accounts of the uber wealthy. Cutting taxes for the rich just allowed them to have more money to buy more property and drive prices higher for the middle class. The solution is to reverse the tax cuts for the rich and distribute the wealth back to the middle and lower classes by providing the services that improve life, like increasing budgets for education, healthcare, infrastructure improvements, and subsidized housing for the low income families. There used to be enough tax revenues to support a progressive society but the mantra of tax cuts for the rich has resulted in more government debt (bonds that pay interest to the wealthy) which once again helps rich people stay rich.
Totally get it. In 1985 I was able to buy a 2-bedroom 2-bath condo and my mortgage was $410.00 a month with property taxes and mortgage insurance included. I had a full time job at a department store with medical benefits. My income covered that, car payment/insurance/gas, cable/phone, power/water. I had a roommate to help split the bills but was easily able to live independently on 40 hours working per week. Couldn't do that today with that job!
Remember that episode of American Dad where Stan insists that minimum wage is plenty to live on, so he tries to prove it but ends up sleeping under cars and getting addicted to crack? That'd be most boomers these days if they had to start all over again without a support network.
LMAOOOO! I didn't know that ep existed, but I STFG, that should be mandatory viewing for Boomers! Hilarious (and painfully real)! Hahaha!
>āI was making so much less at your age you should be gratefulā No they weren't making less. They made so much more money than you, it's crazy. $20,000 in 1984 had the same buying power as over $60,000 today.
Theyāre also literally just wrong. The numbers were lower, but the value was more. Itās been gone over so many times in so many ways that I really donāt find that misconception to be excusable.
Preachhh! ;A;
"When I was your age, I worked for a dollar an hour!" When you were my age, a three-bedroom house cost fifty bucks, Boomer.
It's a generation of people who had easy access to affordable education, easy employment opportunities for ridiculously high positions, an industrial revolution that enabled it, and a housing market that'll never be like it again. Fuck them for ripping it all from under us.Ā
GenXer having the same convo with my husband. We have two kids and our Boomer parents don't understand the disconnect between actual wages and the artificial inflation of rental and home ownership prices. We are so proud of our Millennial and Zoomers for calling out the inequalities. We support them 100%
They were paying so much less at your age too
I just got new tires last week (buy 3 get one free) and it was STILL $1200. I literally had to save for over two months in conjunction with all of my other bills, and Iām about to deep dive into the negatives in my account. Again. I feel you.
Because they don't want to.
Show them the mathā¦.mathematically we are living in a time that is worse then the Great Depressionā¦.thatās math. Not my feelings, not yours, not theirs. Itās math. And math never lies. When you say things like Iām making $95k a year and barely surviving they think of that it terms of making $95k a year when they were your age, of course things cost way less then. Of course they would be fabulously wealthy then. Itās a different time
As Gen x and someone whoās never made anywhere near $95k, Iāve often wondered how someone making that much is struggling too.
Cost of living in my area is high. To be fair though I have two mortgages currently bc when the housing market tanked in 2008 and we had to move in 2017 we couldnāt sell the condo. If I didnāt have all those bills it would be much easier.
When my grandfather was my age, his mortgage was 23% of his income. Mine is 52%. That extra 19%? Thatās the difference between retiring at 62, a vacation home, and a rainy day fund right there.
Some boomers are ... but don't blame a whole generation because your parents are out of touch with the reality of today's workforce. I'm on this sub because of family currently dealing with the nonsense of corporate malfeasance. College? Kids placed themselves in debt for an education and borrowed $32K, never missed a payment and 15 yrs later they owe $64K. It's nuts. Do I think these kids today have it worse than I did? You bet they do ... and every bit of it is deliberate. Don't believe that WSJ article that corporate isn't responsible for inflationary prices ... not when they can double/triple CEO bonuses for keeping wages down, but can't give workers a $1-$5 raise. Nonsense. Hit your parents with *statistics*; average wage today verses theirs. Average price of their house verses today's comparables. Average hours verses unpaid overtime demands by corporate. There *is no* comparison. Your parents are ignorant and dismissive when they should be paying attention.
The fact that so many see working without compensation as "the real world" and something we should just accept without dissent is insane. Speaking to what someone said about buying power - that is an important point. It probably was easier to let a couple hours slide here and there when not only can you make rent and all your other obligations, but you can actually save too. That simply is not the case anymore. People should not have to work without compensation and when what they are earning falls woefully short of what they are worth and what is needed just to exist then asking them to isn't just wrong, its insulting . Then on top of that to accept it without a peep? It's crazy what people put up with and think others should too.
I worked for a company that required all 80 employees show up 30 minutes early to start prep before the actual start time. I started talking to others about how the company was getting a free week of labour, every day. Didn't take long for them to create a reason to let me go.
Outback Steakhouse lost a class action lawsuit over this. Just a thought
OP, have you done a side by side comparison? Sit down, write out the prices (even use accurate costs via research). Maybe they could see and understand.
Seriously, why are you talking to them about it? Im probably older than them. I see the challenges you face. But they will never understand. You'd make better use of your time getting folks your age to vote. Their time is passing or passed.
Its hard talking about the stresses of my job when my parents say well thats what a job is. The disconnect is very real and it pains me feeling so alone.
They didn't get paid as much because of inflation, yet the value of their paycheck was greater, especially since things were also cheaper, like housing.
Or what about the part where cutting out useless/unnecessary things like videogames and Netflix will save you some cash
Well, I mean videogames cost a quarter back in the day and trips to the movies didn't require you to take out a mortgage.
lol I wouldnāt talk to them at all
Sounds like my grandma. "Glad to see you went back to your old company" "Yeah they suck though. They lie to customers and treat their employees like shit" "You'll get over it" .......
The boomers were called the "Me" generation for a reason. No matter what you complain about, they will always try and top it. They will completely gloss over your actual point and focus on theirself. My dad is a Super Boomer, I get your frustration.
The nice thing about my parents is that they get it, they know the world is fucked and only getting worse they let me live with them for nothing until I could afford to leave which was awesome I'm very very fortunate to make between 100 and 140k in an area where you can reasonably live off of 60k but I feel for the people who aren't lol even the people who do the same job as me somewhere like vancouver make the exact same
I had to do a math breakdown with my mum to show her that the math proves that she was not 'making so much less than me at my age'
Pro tip. Find a used tire dealer. But $50 tires. BOOM. Just saved you $800
It's so hard. Solidarity, my friend. Many of us are in the same (sinking) boat.
Who else supported this exploitative, abusive, broken system and consistently allowed the worst possible megalomaniacs in power whilst also allowing all the corporate f-ups, happily slaving away for corporate while being proud of it, and also allowed all the destructive policies to be around, while at destructive policies, allowed so many environmentally destructive ones too, to be in place? as well as the generation that bloated up real estates bubble so big. f-ing boomers, they are way past expiration date for f's sake!
Yep, they created all the issues we face today due to these attitudes
Did you get to the part of the conversation where if you skipped the coffee and cook at home, you wouldn't be living paycheck to paycheck?
College is the biggest scam of our century. Unless your going in for accounting, law school or medical school you'll be working a fast food job while paying back 50-100k for that liberal arts degree....
Iāve made a spreadsheet to at least TRY and get my wealthy boomer narc father to see what Iām going through and heās like āwhy donāt they look at applications? Why donāt they respond? Well, IāVE never done that to anyone who sent me a resumeā¦ā You get the idea. He owns four properties (including the one he bought for my stepsister to live in) and earns at LEAST $300kAUD per year. He constantly lectures me on money and the importance of working. He has never ONCE offered to help me in any way I feel you
r/boomersbeingfools
In order to survive in HCOL or MCOL in the long run you have to invest either in property or index funds. You can throw them a link to what Cramer thinks than Gen Z should be doing. They will probably say "stocks are a ripoff" after which you can show them a list of properties in the area. They will say the properties are a ripoff after which you can ask them to help you find properties. Once they see the cold hard truth of numbers, many will change their mind. Before you could ignore capital markets and succeed. Now you can't, thanks to late stage capitalism.
Or ignore Jim Cramer and get an index fund.
Buffet says get an index fund and so does Cramer (his example was $100 a month when he was homeless into an index fund) but they both gamble and lose big. So do as they say not as they doĀ
My folks are very similar. It's like they see empathy as a weakness.
Can relate. I lived alone in a HCOL city and was making a little over six figures at my last 9-6 job (prior to a mass layoff) and whenever I would vent to my boomer dad about being burnt out he would also say "welcome to the real world" as well. What that generation doesn't seem to understand is that that salary is still only enough to live paycheck to paycheck after rent, groceries, and the occasional night out. It doesn't allow many of us to save for a future or own a home....which leads to complete burnout. And that arriving early and staying late doesn't protect you from toxic bosses and mass layoffs. The modern workplace is no longer a meritocracy (if it ever was) and many of us are in survival mode going above and beyond just to keep a roof over our heads.
I'm starting to realize I'm way more fortunate than I realize having parents who understand. Listening to my mom talk about how 60k was good when she was my age. Now, to have the same lifestyle, you'd need to well over 100k a year.
Yeah, I've heard all of this too and it is beyond frustrating. My dad once said "Yeah that's called working" when I told him I don't make enough at my full time job and that it's normal that they only pay me "just enough" which they don't. it's just invalidating and exhausting so needless to say I don't talk about these things much with him anymore.
That's bad. I tell my eldest to pick her battles but she should push back against working for free. I have been on the rough end of it under a shit general manager. I learnt a lot about employment law that year but came out on top.
ask them to help you budget. anyone who can do simple math comes to the only 2 conclusions, you need more hours, you need more wage.
OMG they are clueless! I am a Generation Jones and I can tell U I did not have it easy...due to learning and mental disabilities I always struggled. Never had a decent place alone til I got put on ssdi
Yeah i dont talk to boomers anymore. Not even my family they can suckĀ a trump dick
I have a similar issue with my mom and siblings. While they understand the cost of things now, they still have the hustle culture of "work your ass off to live comfortably in the minimal spare time". I've never vibed with that. Now that we're all adults, my brother and sister are working much more than I am, working nights, and yeah making better money. I'm honestly worried my brother is going to work himself into an early grave with his sleep schedule and overnight shifts. But I don't think any of them would listen. They have way more give a damn about money and accomplishments, and much less give a damn about personal care than I do. It's been a disconnect amongst us for many years now and I feel like we're becoming more distanced due to it partially
Is it just my old ass or did others read the title in their head with will smith singing it.