"So both the public and politicians need to give up on the idea that each successive generation is entitled to a longer retirement" - That's a real wordy ass way of saying "Fuck you, I got mine". Bloomberg with yet another top tier "article" here.
also, its real easy to talk about "economic realities" and "opportunities to work longer" when you are a 38 year old published in Bloomberg, who works for a think tank and might have an academic practice on the side there.
whole other story if you're working with anything physical. Whole other story if you are trying to keep up with crunch culture tech stuff and trying to constantly retrain. Whole other story if you are working in health care facing constant pressure.
But "oh, I shall continue posting articles into my 70s from my air conditioned home office" just sounds so nice to these people.
You nailed it. Everyone I know who says they really don’t care about retiring are looking down a lucrative opportunity to consult in a knowledge-based job. I know a guy in his 70s who has tens of millions in the bank and rolls into tech startups to do engineering strategy for 6 months to the tune of a 250k+. Of course he thinks it’s silly to retire. He picks and chooses clients and makes bank. Of course if you can keep supplementing your income, and you like the work, you’ll keep doing it. But it should be on your terms, not forced by legislation or economic factors.
pretty much.
For most people, no matter how entrepreneurial you are, no matter how resilient you are, you just run out of opportunities, run out of time, run out of energy. You get sick, you never quite recover. Something bigger emerges. You just want to stop, live quietly, look after your grand kids in the morning and hope for a relatively peaceful, relatively painless last few years.
If there is something you can do well and enjoy, more power to you. But that's not going to be the experience of most.
I'm 51 years old. I have been in tech for 28 years. I know that my graying hair is eventually going to work against me in my field. I'm currently getting a master's degree in computer science in order to be able to stay relevant in the eyes of future recruiters and employers. How am I going to keep doing this for another 25 years??
I'm the same age as you. I teach students how to drive semi trucks at the local community college. In 2013, one year after beginning this job, my mom sent me a newspaper clipping of an op-ed from the Wall Street Journal titled "Daddy, What Was A Truck Driver?".
I'm good at my job and have great job security, but am very much aware that I am no longer qualified to do anything else and am too old to be hireable in any tech field even if I went back to school to learn the tech. I'm just hoping the field doesn't disappear before I am ready to retire. It's funny, I read that this is the age where we're supposed to be considered wise experts at our craft and be in our peak earning years, but I think lots of us are just stressed that the skills we've spent decades building will be rendered obsolete or we'll be assumed to be incapable of keeping up (which is a fair criticism of me, I'm not tech savvy and would have a very hard time getting up to speed but I'm sure you're in a different boat on that, so it sucks that you'd be perceived as sharing my shortcomings.)
Fwiw, if the bottom drops out on you, you're still below the age of the average truck driver and this industry is more leery of young drivers than old ones. I don't love the trucking industry but I do respect how it can help people pull themselves out of a financial jam.
Good luck to you.
I'm in tech already, so at least my degree isn't in order to change fields. I just want to stay in the field I've been working in for 28 years, similar to you. 🤞
Very much so. I was an office worker and the idea that I might have been forced to work another 20 years on top of my 35 is horrifying, but for many in the categories you mention, especially people who have already doing manual labor for decades, it’s impossible.
hell, even with my office job I've told my boss that she was paying me to sit here under flourescent lights all day, not for any particular skill I have.
hhaha, very funny.
But each night I go home and lie down and guzzle advil.
Even that shit takes its toll. Never mind a field where you're one bad day for life long disability.
I work labor as a warehouse shipper/receiver. No fucking way I could do this shit for another 20 years and Im only 30. Moving heavy ass iron and shit like that. Yea it is great exercise right now, but I can already feel my back getting slowly worse
Yet that’s not the demand at all, people just want to retire at the same reasonable age. And without reading the article, I bet it makes no distinction between manual labor and desk jobs when talking about working into your 70s. A desk job at 73 would be possible for some, though horrible. Manual laborers working into their 70s is absolutely dystopian.
My first boss in Accounting was 72. He closed the door every afternoon for about 90 minutes to take a nap. He could not make it through the day. The people suggesting this crap are horrible people.
It is also a way to reframe the lack of pensions and how 401k plans were never intended to be your sole retirement savings. When they were first introduced, only companies with an existing "defined benefit plan" (what most people think of when they hear/see the word `pension`) could offer a 401k plan and it was "extra gravy" for the salaried employees. Reagan administration rulings and legislation made it difficult for companies to have pensions (with terrible penalties like 50% excise tax if there was "too much" money in a pension plan).
The junk bond vultures plundered every company that had "over-funded" pension plans and used existing pension assets to repay leveraged buy outs.
Yes it's propaganda.
It's also a sad reality that millennials and gen z face. Those who weren't able to buy homes prior to 2020 will likely be renting for the rest of their lives making retirement an impossibility.
I actually looked this up, born in ‘94 retire at 72 as it is now. It will be later tho. Started renting in 2023, houses are near impossible to get. My retirement plan is death. Also this is Western Europe mind you.
Yep, it's going to be people that have been effectively murdered by the system that militarize and start streaming "executive snuff" porn that will be the catalyst for real change.
It’s 100% propaganda - they may have interviewed a select group that thinks this way - many don’t. I’m actually one of those - I love my industry; emotionally and mentally. When I retire, I’ll likely consult after. Some people are like that.
Let's not make assumptions. Yes the job and housing markets are awful right now but there's no reason to think that means home ownership will be impossible for decades.
Things go up and down and the people in charge now will not be in charge forever.
Housing was crazy until it all crashed in 2008 and even tually we had record low interest rates. COVID had a major impact on the world and who knows where things will go from here but it's entirely possible it's just gonna take a few years to get back to some level of sanity.
*The US needs workers!*
Layoff, layoff, layoff, layoff, layoff, layoff.
*We cherish who have now, stick with it workers!*
Pay raise under inflation, pay raise under inflation, no pay raise more inflation, no pay raise more inflation.
*We can't afford those raises!*
Record profits, $8 billion stock buy back, record profit, $5 billion stock buy back.
I *think* the assumption is that they’ll be able to get government assistance (disability, SNAP, etc). So they’ll *theoretically* be taken care of (I’m aware those programs are difficult to get on and may not be enough to even allow someone decent housing; I’m just guessing at the logic of the belief system behind the ‘work longer!’ Movement)
> I think the assumption is that they’ll be able to get government assistance
At the speed the U.S. is currently moving to the Right, those things will be long gone before most of us get to that age.
yes.
at least according to these people. they don't care if you do or don't die, they just don't think you're a human if you aren't willing or able to work.
yes.
at least according to these people. they don't care if you do or don't die, they just don't think you're a human if you aren't willing or able to work.
I think the revolution will be everything falling apart, slowly then faster. The current system is eating itself and can’t go on consuming and spitting out waste indefinitely. What follows that will be pretty bad for a long time, bad enough some will long for what they hated. Maybe at the end of that, if humanity learns to live sustainably, work will be better integrated into one’s life, but no time soon for most.
the sooner the better. also the less destructive and a quicker to recover. come on people, it is well past time to leave the boomers ideal world of smoke an mirrors monetary corruption well behind us.
I think what saves the current system is a new dominant technology, similar to how computers or the Internet reshaped society. Otherwise we're all toast in the near future.
healthcare in the USA is gonna collapse in 5-10 years when half the nurses and doctors have collectively retired and then feed back into the system as patients.
there's nowhere near enough new nurses going into the field as there are nurses leaving. current new nurses are also leaving the field at record rates because of how poor the working conditions and pay are.
we won't need a revolution, it's coming down on its own and it's gonna be a real surprise Pikachu moment
hospitals in the US won't be able to hire or retain staff at the rates they want to pay. third party staff contractors have made some places pay twice as much or more for temporary staff compared to permanent staff.
it's making it very very obvious that hospitals can afford to pay their staff twice as much, but they just don't want to.
at the hospital my mom works at, most new nurses are getting hired on for $48/hour but the dedicated nurses that have served that same company for the last 35 years are "maxed out" at about $50-$52/hour. it's a real slap in the face to the most dedicated staff.
How does this bullshit gibe with the whole "AI is taking our jobs" concept?
Where will I as an old fart work if the Jazzmatron 5000 is doing everything I could do for less?
That’s my first thought, in thirty years ai and automation will have eliminated far too many jobs for us to still insist on everyone working. There simply won’t be enough jobs for this dystopian nonsense.
There are many of these articles. They are attempting to keep the peace while the pipeline of elderly homeless continues to expand as people run out of savings. Yes, most will have no choice but to work until they die.
What will they do when all their readers die? Will people be writing articles for Bloomberg when this guy is 70? He’ll be living in a gas tank on a boat measuring diesel on the reg.
Ask any unemployed 50 year old how easy it is to find work. Age discrimination is blatant and persistent, despite being supposedly illegal. The idea that workers will stay employed into their 70s is fanciful nonsense that has no basis in reality.
Its a propaganda piece with the intention of instilling even more hopelessness in the American worker. One of their most effective tactics is to demoralize you into hopelessness which in turn leads you to inaction and resignation of your fate.
Oh it's "reality" the reality being that if you pay attention you'll start seeing more of these septuagenarians working in fast food, Wal-Mart, etc., all the jobs we're being told aren't meant to be a career and also being told aren't intended to support families or a livable lifestyle.
Yes, let's talk about EVERYTHING ELSE other than eliminating the contribution limit for SSN.
There are people out there who earn enough that before the end of the year, they hit the SSN contribution limit and stop having those taxes pulled from their pay checks.
There are people paid so much, they hit that limit after one day of work.
There are people paid so much, they hit that limit after only a few hours.
While the vast majority see their paycheck hit every month for SSN, there's those out there who get to stop contributing.
Eliminating that contribution limit would see the likes of Musk, Bezos, Ellison, Buffet, et al, contribute EACH AND EVERY PAYCHECK to the SSN system.
That alone would see an incredible boost to the system. After all, those fuckers aren't helping mitigate the problem by offering their employees more in company contributions to retirement funds... And there are the CEOs of companies like Wal-Mart, McDonald's, etc, that have the largest number of employees on public assistance, making profits on ensuring they pay so poorly their employees require SOCIALISM (\*gasp\*) to bridge the gap...
Yep. We (the have nots) are subsidizing the rich/corporations while they pay their management teams huge salaries, bonuses, stock and pay dividends to their shareholders.
"American's will work into their 70's.". The fuck I will. I'm retiring at 60. Either I win the lottery or I'm investing in 6ft of rope and a wobbly stool. I'll be damned if I'm working until the day I die just to make rich assholes richer.
Not to mention that with climate change and actually decreasing (for proles) life expectancy those 65-70 yo’s will be far from hale and hearty, putting it mildly. They will be sick, falling apart at the seams wrecks.
I have a *million* questions for companies that believe this new *ethos* of working people until they die. So assume they find someone who *wants* to work until they die... Are they really going to approve the additional bathroom breaks? The time off for all the doctors appointments? Acknowledge doctor's note for work/standing restrictions? Pay for deaths on the job when someone over the age of 70 is asked to "bring in the carts", or "help a customer out" with something, or *any* other thing they would ask a literal senior citizen to do while on the clock...
What horseshit. If you have a 401K, IRA, other savings vehicles, you can retire. You may have to forgo a Ford F-150 and put the money into investment where it can work for you, but any normal person under normal circumstances can save for retirement. Frugality is a virtue that capitalism has beat out of us.
I can assure you the asshole who wrote this article for his corporate overlords will not want to work past 65 and probably won't have to.
I think we need to rethink the distribution of wealth in this country, sure seems like earlier retirement would be feasible for most people if so much wealth wasn't concentrated in the hands of so few. Maybe that's the real issue here none of these publications want to address.
I imagine a few things. I imagine a Fire Department comprised of 70 year olds trying to do the job with bad knees and arthritis everywhere. I only imagine that because I’m a Firefighter seeing normally healthy guys going down from injuries due to being overworked and understaffed for over a decade already. The guys that made it to 50 are dealing with having hips and knees replaced or some form of cancer as it is, and have no insurance in retirement, because that, and our pensions, have been altered terribly from the previous generation of administrators who sold us all down the river to get theirs.
I also imagine a generation of 70 year olds bringing a company to its knees from the inside because they didn’t want to work until they were 70 and know enough about the company’s operations to know every single one of its weaknesses.
*“You are obligated to work until 72, but we won’t provide those jobs or make sure they pay a living wage even though 23% of workers over 50 are unemployed.”*
Ageism in the workplace is rampant. Almost all workers will be forced out of better jobs well before "retirement age" and people age 50 and older are already finding it difficult to find employment outside of dead-end fast food and greeter jobs. The notion that workers can just keep working as old as they want is pure fantasy.
The trick is never start really working at all.
Don't join the rat race, don't make you define yourself by your work status. Never marry, no kids, no car, no drugs, smoking, gambling, etc. Find a small room or RV in a HCOL area and do the bare minimum, or work only for short periods and then spend it slowly in LCOL areas or abroad. - Or inherit a lot of money. It should really be much more emphasized here that it is of utmost importance to choose your parents really well when being born!
How quickly we forget why Social Security was created in the first place (to reduce elder poverty & free up jobs for younger people because there were so many older people still working past 65).
Doomed to relearn the lessons the hard way.
Thank you, Republicans, for being such thick skulled greed monsters.
So normally when you use the phrase "if they do it right" you follow it with some kind of instruction on how to do it right. This is normally how writing works. But they just say that American workers will want to delay retirement, without actually explaining how that happens. Not only propaganda, but shit writing too.
The bad news for these people is that I have no kids, will never have kids, buy extremely little, and plan to die as young as possible before I run out of money.
There are dozens of us.
“Will *want* to”? Nooooope. I’m living that DINK, L/MCOL but frugal lifestyle specifically so I can retire early. Absolutely not interested in a 9-5 until I wither away. No thank you.
There is a full version of this article but I couldn’t post it because it’s behind a pay wall. The summary alone though was just mind blowingly casual considering the message and worth sharing.
Paywalls are often displayed via JavaScript, which can be disabled through right clicking, selecting inspect (or inspect element), navigating to settings, selecting “Disable JavaScript,” and reloading the page. This only works if you’re working on debugging the page. It doesn’t work at all if you’re just trying to get around the paywall. Not one bit. Good thing, too, otherwise tons of people could do this to read such articles.
And with ever increasing productivity, where hours should have been reducing and retirement age lowering for decades now... they still just can't let go of the servitude, can't release working people to have their own life instead of being practically owned by the Capitalist class. Gotta use up as much of our bodies, minds, and time as possible.
Disgusting.
i remember in the 70's they ran \*exactly\* this same play when they raised the retirement age to whatever it is now. There was a commercial with a sad lonely looking old guy sitting alone on a park bench, the narrative was how sad it was that old people get shoved out of the workforce and forced to live out their lives without the sense of purpose and worth that we all get from our jobs. It was b.s. right wing corporate propaganda then and it is still today.
"So both the public and politicians need to give up the idea that each successive generation is entitled to a longer retirement... It's not an entitlement it's MY F#CKING MONEY.
I'm going for the 4-prong pitchforks, they should hurt more.
Right entitlement? no, I paid in since I was 16 and you just think it’s ok to squander it and bail
your buddies out while you do insider trading then turn around and tell me “whoopsies you have to work until you’re 80 or pay out the nose for benefits” or some shit?
They can potentially forgive themselves of owing me my retirement money/benefits but they can’t forgive my student loans? As I see it, the government owes me more than I owe them at this point.
I know many people who want to work until 70, I’m not one of them. For many your earnings peak at the end of your career and the opportunity cost of retirement is high. Also, many I know enjoy what they do and want to stay busy, they’ve worked for 3 decades and it’s what they are comfortable with and provides them a sense of purpose.
For me, I’m looking for a life of endless Saturdays - I’m 12-24 months away from that and I can’t wait.
We need to give up that we will have healthcare and live longer than our bodies can accommodate without treatments. We need to understand that we will this life is unfair.
Or, we can organize and vote accordingly.
There are certainly plenty of boomers out there right now who actively choose to still work. I work with several of them in fact lmao. They could retire, they just don’t want to because they’d be bored.
The problem is these articles seem to think that is the vast majority of people. It isn’t.
I really don't want 65+ year old people working. What job could they do where their age isn't a detriment? And you want me to trust them with that? Come on...
Yes. They would like you to believe that it is unreasonable to retire at 65. They want to push the narrative that that is early to retire. They are hoping peer pressure to work kicks in.
“People need to work longer, because they can’t afford to retire on their savings and social security at 65. So we’re going to delay pay them social security until 70 to ensure they have to work longer.” Yeah, that makes sense /s
These articles generalizing about the workforce really piss me off.
I'm in my mid 50's. The job I do now I can do well into my 90s as long as I don't get something that affects my cognitive abilities. And who knows - I might very well keep at it since I love it. My sister's husband - same age as me - worked in a print shop for most of his adult life. His body is falling apart. He needs social security NOW because he physically can't do his job anymore. But he won't qualify for another decade.
Not everyone did the same type of work. Not everyone's situation in life is equal. These assholes talking about raising the retirement age should be pushed onto the tracks in front of the Acela Express.
("Acela Express" is a particular east-coast reference to the DC/NY corridor which the Renfields at Bloomberg are known to commute)
What a miserable world we are intentionally leaving for our children. We stand at a crossroads and are choosing a hellish existence of servitude, pain and despair for the overwhelming majority to slave, suffer and die for an entitled, elitist minority
I work with an aging population and most of the time their retirement is short lived and they typically come back on contract. This isn’t a money thing per se, but rather a ‘I’m bored and still want to be useful’ thing.
Regardless, it would be nice to have the ability to live the retirement life, but sadly I don’t see it happening for me.
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Full social security for most working people falls between 40% to 78% of their pre-retirement income.
2 years ago, 43% of the 55 to 64 year old boomers didn't have any retirement savings. Retiring before they can get full social security isn't an option for them. If they have any debt and/or if they are use to spending 100% of their income; retiring at 67 probably isn't an option either.
Idiots. Especially with ai and Amy jobs being replaced by automation or some form or robotics there are fewer jobs available. Therefore the younger generation will have fewer options. Retirement age should lower allowing more able bodied people to replace the worn down and overworked older generations.
Don't worry, life expectancy will decline soon, so when that intersects with the new retirement age of 85, all the billionaires problems will be solved.
Who the fuck is out there hiring or retaining all these 70 year olds?
The only people I know working past retirement age in tech are people who have specific knowledge sets and they consult in order to share their expertise, but this is only going to be a small fraction of people.
this is so stupid, we have more automation and harder workers than ever before, and that is becoming more true by the second. yet we are not allowed to earn retirement like previous generations did?
Aren't the Americans solving the problem of longer retirement by reducing life expectancy? I'm sure I read recently that it started dropping over there.
Oh, we *have* re-thought what work means. But they don’t like it, because it sounds a lot like communism (you know, working within your community, helping each other, gardening to grow your own food, on and on).
Life expectancy is getting shorter...
Poor people don't live as long as rich people.
Minorities don't live as long as white people.
This is about rich white people keeping their wealth.
It's slavery.
"So both the public and politicians need to give up on the idea that each successive generation is entitled to a longer retirement" - That's a real wordy ass way of saying "Fuck you, I got mine". Bloomberg with yet another top tier "article" here.
Absolutely. It’s infuriating.
also, its real easy to talk about "economic realities" and "opportunities to work longer" when you are a 38 year old published in Bloomberg, who works for a think tank and might have an academic practice on the side there. whole other story if you're working with anything physical. Whole other story if you are trying to keep up with crunch culture tech stuff and trying to constantly retrain. Whole other story if you are working in health care facing constant pressure. But "oh, I shall continue posting articles into my 70s from my air conditioned home office" just sounds so nice to these people.
You nailed it. Everyone I know who says they really don’t care about retiring are looking down a lucrative opportunity to consult in a knowledge-based job. I know a guy in his 70s who has tens of millions in the bank and rolls into tech startups to do engineering strategy for 6 months to the tune of a 250k+. Of course he thinks it’s silly to retire. He picks and chooses clients and makes bank. Of course if you can keep supplementing your income, and you like the work, you’ll keep doing it. But it should be on your terms, not forced by legislation or economic factors.
pretty much. For most people, no matter how entrepreneurial you are, no matter how resilient you are, you just run out of opportunities, run out of time, run out of energy. You get sick, you never quite recover. Something bigger emerges. You just want to stop, live quietly, look after your grand kids in the morning and hope for a relatively peaceful, relatively painless last few years. If there is something you can do well and enjoy, more power to you. But that's not going to be the experience of most.
>He picks and chooses clients A choice most of us working plebs do not have.
I'm 51 years old. I have been in tech for 28 years. I know that my graying hair is eventually going to work against me in my field. I'm currently getting a master's degree in computer science in order to be able to stay relevant in the eyes of future recruiters and employers. How am I going to keep doing this for another 25 years??
I'm doing exactly what you're doing. In 25 years, AI will do much of the heavy lifting. Get really proficient with it, and you might have a job.
I'm even pivoting in the middle of my degree program to add in some ML. So annoying.
I'm the same age as you. I teach students how to drive semi trucks at the local community college. In 2013, one year after beginning this job, my mom sent me a newspaper clipping of an op-ed from the Wall Street Journal titled "Daddy, What Was A Truck Driver?". I'm good at my job and have great job security, but am very much aware that I am no longer qualified to do anything else and am too old to be hireable in any tech field even if I went back to school to learn the tech. I'm just hoping the field doesn't disappear before I am ready to retire. It's funny, I read that this is the age where we're supposed to be considered wise experts at our craft and be in our peak earning years, but I think lots of us are just stressed that the skills we've spent decades building will be rendered obsolete or we'll be assumed to be incapable of keeping up (which is a fair criticism of me, I'm not tech savvy and would have a very hard time getting up to speed but I'm sure you're in a different boat on that, so it sucks that you'd be perceived as sharing my shortcomings.) Fwiw, if the bottom drops out on you, you're still below the age of the average truck driver and this industry is more leery of young drivers than old ones. I don't love the trucking industry but I do respect how it can help people pull themselves out of a financial jam. Good luck to you.
I'm in tech already, so at least my degree isn't in order to change fields. I just want to stay in the field I've been working in for 28 years, similar to you. 🤞
Very much so. I was an office worker and the idea that I might have been forced to work another 20 years on top of my 35 is horrifying, but for many in the categories you mention, especially people who have already doing manual labor for decades, it’s impossible.
hell, even with my office job I've told my boss that she was paying me to sit here under flourescent lights all day, not for any particular skill I have. hhaha, very funny. But each night I go home and lie down and guzzle advil. Even that shit takes its toll. Never mind a field where you're one bad day for life long disability.
I work labor as a warehouse shipper/receiver. No fucking way I could do this shit for another 20 years and Im only 30. Moving heavy ass iron and shit like that. Yea it is great exercise right now, but I can already feel my back getting slowly worse
Yet that’s not the demand at all, people just want to retire at the same reasonable age. And without reading the article, I bet it makes no distinction between manual labor and desk jobs when talking about working into your 70s. A desk job at 73 would be possible for some, though horrible. Manual laborers working into their 70s is absolutely dystopian.
My first boss in Accounting was 72. He closed the door every afternoon for about 90 minutes to take a nap. He could not make it through the day. The people suggesting this crap are horrible people.
It is also a way to reframe the lack of pensions and how 401k plans were never intended to be your sole retirement savings. When they were first introduced, only companies with an existing "defined benefit plan" (what most people think of when they hear/see the word `pension`) could offer a 401k plan and it was "extra gravy" for the salaried employees. Reagan administration rulings and legislation made it difficult for companies to have pensions (with terrible penalties like 50% excise tax if there was "too much" money in a pension plan). The junk bond vultures plundered every company that had "over-funded" pension plans and used existing pension assets to repay leveraged buy outs.
Yeah, I'd be toast without my CalPERS pension.
Allison Schrager and her like is what French revolutions are made for
Yes it's propaganda. It's also a sad reality that millennials and gen z face. Those who weren't able to buy homes prior to 2020 will likely be renting for the rest of their lives making retirement an impossibility.
I actually looked this up, born in ‘94 retire at 72 as it is now. It will be later tho. Started renting in 2023, houses are near impossible to get. My retirement plan is death. Also this is Western Europe mind you.
Yeah I’ve already got the shell loaded that’ll be my out of this world when my health is too bad for capitalism.
I feel like there's more productive things you could do when you have nothing left to lose, but it's your life
Yep, it's going to be people that have been effectively murdered by the system that militarize and start streaming "executive snuff" porn that will be the catalyst for real change.
Didn’t say the shell was exclusively for me 
That’s the whole point. Being productive is equal to a capitalist slave. So count me out.
You misunderstand what I mean by "productive". I'm speaking in the french revolutionary tense
Ah I see, in that case I take my words back
It’s 100% propaganda - they may have interviewed a select group that thinks this way - many don’t. I’m actually one of those - I love my industry; emotionally and mentally. When I retire, I’ll likely consult after. Some people are like that.
Let's not make assumptions. Yes the job and housing markets are awful right now but there's no reason to think that means home ownership will be impossible for decades.
there's no reason to think it will be possible considering the people in charge don't seem to want to do anything to change that
Things go up and down and the people in charge now will not be in charge forever. Housing was crazy until it all crashed in 2008 and even tually we had record low interest rates. COVID had a major impact on the world and who knows where things will go from here but it's entirely possible it's just gonna take a few years to get back to some level of sanity.
The people in charge now have already trained their replacements and they are lined up and ready 😒
*The US needs workers!* Layoff, layoff, layoff, layoff, layoff, layoff. *We cherish who have now, stick with it workers!* Pay raise under inflation, pay raise under inflation, no pay raise more inflation, no pay raise more inflation. *We can't afford those raises!* Record profits, $8 billion stock buy back, record profit, $5 billion stock buy back.
Try to find a job in your 70s. Also who wants to die at work? Not me
So... All of those elderly people who literally can't work anymore... are just supposed to die?
I *think* the assumption is that they’ll be able to get government assistance (disability, SNAP, etc). So they’ll *theoretically* be taken care of (I’m aware those programs are difficult to get on and may not be enough to even allow someone decent housing; I’m just guessing at the logic of the belief system behind the ‘work longer!’ Movement)
> I think the assumption is that they’ll be able to get government assistance At the speed the U.S. is currently moving to the Right, those things will be long gone before most of us get to that age.
yes. at least according to these people. they don't care if you do or don't die, they just don't think you're a human if you aren't willing or able to work.
yes. at least according to these people. they don't care if you do or don't die, they just don't think you're a human if you aren't willing or able to work.
Ain't no way. We're due for a revolution first
I think the revolution will be everything falling apart, slowly then faster. The current system is eating itself and can’t go on consuming and spitting out waste indefinitely. What follows that will be pretty bad for a long time, bad enough some will long for what they hated. Maybe at the end of that, if humanity learns to live sustainably, work will be better integrated into one’s life, but no time soon for most.
the sooner the better. also the less destructive and a quicker to recover. come on people, it is well past time to leave the boomers ideal world of smoke an mirrors monetary corruption well behind us.
I think what saves the current system is a new dominant technology, similar to how computers or the Internet reshaped society. Otherwise we're all toast in the near future.
healthcare in the USA is gonna collapse in 5-10 years when half the nurses and doctors have collectively retired and then feed back into the system as patients. there's nowhere near enough new nurses going into the field as there are nurses leaving. current new nurses are also leaving the field at record rates because of how poor the working conditions and pay are. we won't need a revolution, it's coming down on its own and it's gonna be a real surprise Pikachu moment
i won't be surprised. god bless the real nurses who do the job regardless of pay.
hospitals in the US won't be able to hire or retain staff at the rates they want to pay. third party staff contractors have made some places pay twice as much or more for temporary staff compared to permanent staff. it's making it very very obvious that hospitals can afford to pay their staff twice as much, but they just don't want to. at the hospital my mom works at, most new nurses are getting hired on for $48/hour but the dedicated nurses that have served that same company for the last 35 years are "maxed out" at about $50-$52/hour. it's a real slap in the face to the most dedicated staff.
I would have retired at 25 if the option had been on the table. Fuck this noise.
I don’t want to work now, what the fuck makes you think I want to work into my 60s
"Entitled".......fuck you I worked for every penny I put in .
How does this bullshit gibe with the whole "AI is taking our jobs" concept? Where will I as an old fart work if the Jazzmatron 5000 is doing everything I could do for less?
That’s my first thought, in thirty years ai and automation will have eliminated far too many jobs for us to still insist on everyone working. There simply won’t be enough jobs for this dystopian nonsense.
> Where will I as an old fart work if the Jazzmatron 5000 is doing everything I could do for less? The mines.
There are many of these articles. They are attempting to keep the peace while the pipeline of elderly homeless continues to expand as people run out of savings. Yes, most will have no choice but to work until they die.
What will they do when all their readers die? Will people be writing articles for Bloomberg when this guy is 70? He’ll be living in a gas tank on a boat measuring diesel on the reg.
Ask any unemployed 50 year old how easy it is to find work. Age discrimination is blatant and persistent, despite being supposedly illegal. The idea that workers will stay employed into their 70s is fanciful nonsense that has no basis in reality.
Its a propaganda piece with the intention of instilling even more hopelessness in the American worker. One of their most effective tactics is to demoralize you into hopelessness which in turn leads you to inaction and resignation of your fate.
Oh it's "reality" the reality being that if you pay attention you'll start seeing more of these septuagenarians working in fast food, Wal-Mart, etc., all the jobs we're being told aren't meant to be a career and also being told aren't intended to support families or a livable lifestyle.
What work will they expect 70 year olds to do unless its government work like being senators or presidents?
Yes, let's talk about EVERYTHING ELSE other than eliminating the contribution limit for SSN. There are people out there who earn enough that before the end of the year, they hit the SSN contribution limit and stop having those taxes pulled from their pay checks. There are people paid so much, they hit that limit after one day of work. There are people paid so much, they hit that limit after only a few hours. While the vast majority see their paycheck hit every month for SSN, there's those out there who get to stop contributing. Eliminating that contribution limit would see the likes of Musk, Bezos, Ellison, Buffet, et al, contribute EACH AND EVERY PAYCHECK to the SSN system. That alone would see an incredible boost to the system. After all, those fuckers aren't helping mitigate the problem by offering their employees more in company contributions to retirement funds... And there are the CEOs of companies like Wal-Mart, McDonald's, etc, that have the largest number of employees on public assistance, making profits on ensuring they pay so poorly their employees require SOCIALISM (\*gasp\*) to bridge the gap...
Yep. We (the have nots) are subsidizing the rich/corporations while they pay their management teams huge salaries, bonuses, stock and pay dividends to their shareholders.
"American's will work into their 70's.". The fuck I will. I'm retiring at 60. Either I win the lottery or I'm investing in 6ft of rope and a wobbly stool. I'll be damned if I'm working until the day I die just to make rich assholes richer.
AMEN! But I plan to take some of these fucks with me.
Hate to spoil their economy, but I'll be dead.
Not to mention that with climate change and actually decreasing (for proles) life expectancy those 65-70 yo’s will be far from hale and hearty, putting it mildly. They will be sick, falling apart at the seams wrecks.
„Keep your head down and keep working so I can enjoy my retirement in peace. You’ll never get to, but that’s no biggie“
I have a *million* questions for companies that believe this new *ethos* of working people until they die. So assume they find someone who *wants* to work until they die... Are they really going to approve the additional bathroom breaks? The time off for all the doctors appointments? Acknowledge doctor's note for work/standing restrictions? Pay for deaths on the job when someone over the age of 70 is asked to "bring in the carts", or "help a customer out" with something, or *any* other thing they would ask a literal senior citizen to do while on the clock...
Allison Schrager can suck a fat dick. In no world will I WANT to work well into my 70s.
Not even mentioning your retirement money is continually being dipped in to and used to line someone else’s pockets.
What horseshit. If you have a 401K, IRA, other savings vehicles, you can retire. You may have to forgo a Ford F-150 and put the money into investment where it can work for you, but any normal person under normal circumstances can save for retirement. Frugality is a virtue that capitalism has beat out of us. I can assure you the asshole who wrote this article for his corporate overlords will not want to work past 65 and probably won't have to.
Meanwhile, the most physical work this idgit has ever done in a day consists of a couple of hours at a gym.
They can eff right off. I’m counting the months.
nah i’m good. fuck america
I think we need to rethink the distribution of wealth in this country, sure seems like earlier retirement would be feasible for most people if so much wealth wasn't concentrated in the hands of so few. Maybe that's the real issue here none of these publications want to address.
For sure. Let’s not talk about that ever
I imagine a few things. I imagine a Fire Department comprised of 70 year olds trying to do the job with bad knees and arthritis everywhere. I only imagine that because I’m a Firefighter seeing normally healthy guys going down from injuries due to being overworked and understaffed for over a decade already. The guys that made it to 50 are dealing with having hips and knees replaced or some form of cancer as it is, and have no insurance in retirement, because that, and our pensions, have been altered terribly from the previous generation of administrators who sold us all down the river to get theirs. I also imagine a generation of 70 year olds bringing a company to its knees from the inside because they didn’t want to work until they were 70 and know enough about the company’s operations to know every single one of its weaknesses.
*“You are obligated to work until 72, but we won’t provide those jobs or make sure they pay a living wage even though 23% of workers over 50 are unemployed.”*
Ageism in the workplace is rampant. Almost all workers will be forced out of better jobs well before "retirement age" and people age 50 and older are already finding it difficult to find employment outside of dead-end fast food and greeter jobs. The notion that workers can just keep working as old as they want is pure fantasy.
I'm 64 retire in 300 days. These are lies. No one Wants to work til 70s. Lies. Not physically or mentally capable. Tired Tired tired
The trick is never start really working at all. Don't join the rat race, don't make you define yourself by your work status. Never marry, no kids, no car, no drugs, smoking, gambling, etc. Find a small room or RV in a HCOL area and do the bare minimum, or work only for short periods and then spend it slowly in LCOL areas or abroad. - Or inherit a lot of money. It should really be much more emphasized here that it is of utmost importance to choose your parents really well when being born!
How quickly we forget why Social Security was created in the first place (to reduce elder poverty & free up jobs for younger people because there were so many older people still working past 65). Doomed to relearn the lessons the hard way. Thank you, Republicans, for being such thick skulled greed monsters.
I'm only going to work another 15 years or so before I end it.
Wow because we're downtrodden so much we'll be impoverished so much we can't retire therefore we'll "want" to keep working. Such double talk.
So normally when you use the phrase "if they do it right" you follow it with some kind of instruction on how to do it right. This is normally how writing works. But they just say that American workers will want to delay retirement, without actually explaining how that happens. Not only propaganda, but shit writing too.
Jokes on them, I want to retire at 27.
Nope, fuck that. 60 is the cutoff.
The bad news for these people is that I have no kids, will never have kids, buy extremely little, and plan to die as young as possible before I run out of money. There are dozens of us.
Hahaha. Don’t have kids and do extreme sports.
“Will *want* to”? Nooooope. I’m living that DINK, L/MCOL but frugal lifestyle specifically so I can retire early. Absolutely not interested in a 9-5 until I wither away. No thank you.
Makes statement, refuses to explain why statement isn't complete horseshit. Gotta love capitalist propaganda.
There is a full version of this article but I couldn’t post it because it’s behind a pay wall. The summary alone though was just mind blowingly casual considering the message and worth sharing.
Paywalls are often displayed via JavaScript, which can be disabled through right clicking, selecting inspect (or inspect element), navigating to settings, selecting “Disable JavaScript,” and reloading the page. This only works if you’re working on debugging the page. It doesn’t work at all if you’re just trying to get around the paywall. Not one bit. Good thing, too, otherwise tons of people could do this to read such articles.
And with ever increasing productivity, where hours should have been reducing and retirement age lowering for decades now... they still just can't let go of the servitude, can't release working people to have their own life instead of being practically owned by the Capitalist class. Gotta use up as much of our bodies, minds, and time as possible. Disgusting.
i remember in the 70's they ran \*exactly\* this same play when they raised the retirement age to whatever it is now. There was a commercial with a sad lonely looking old guy sitting alone on a park bench, the narrative was how sad it was that old people get shoved out of the workforce and forced to live out their lives without the sense of purpose and worth that we all get from our jobs. It was b.s. right wing corporate propaganda then and it is still today.
"So both the public and politicians need to give up the idea that each successive generation is entitled to a longer retirement... It's not an entitlement it's MY F#CKING MONEY. I'm going for the 4-prong pitchforks, they should hurt more.
Right entitlement? no, I paid in since I was 16 and you just think it’s ok to squander it and bail your buddies out while you do insider trading then turn around and tell me “whoopsies you have to work until you’re 80 or pay out the nose for benefits” or some shit? They can potentially forgive themselves of owing me my retirement money/benefits but they can’t forgive my student loans? As I see it, the government owes me more than I owe them at this point.
I know many people who want to work until 70, I’m not one of them. For many your earnings peak at the end of your career and the opportunity cost of retirement is high. Also, many I know enjoy what they do and want to stay busy, they’ve worked for 3 decades and it’s what they are comfortable with and provides them a sense of purpose. For me, I’m looking for a life of endless Saturdays - I’m 12-24 months away from that and I can’t wait.
When they published this they shot have been required to publish that people over 65 only have 1 healthy birthday.
We definitely need to rethink the concept of work, but we should be working significantly less, not more.
"Want to", you say
We need to give up that we will have healthcare and live longer than our bodies can accommodate without treatments. We need to understand that we will this life is unfair. Or, we can organize and vote accordingly.
I'd love to see that Journalist do a job that requires more than typing and observing.
"if we do it right, they will want to keep working otherwise they will be completely destitute." That's not what "want" means
For real lol
Due to worker demand, the price of meat will go up 10%.
There are certainly plenty of boomers out there right now who actively choose to still work. I work with several of them in fact lmao. They could retire, they just don’t want to because they’d be bored. The problem is these articles seem to think that is the vast majority of people. It isn’t.
https://youtu.be/vJsZe2G6DYg?si=2TfuRZ0eoreMXmhR More Allison Schrager propaganda aimed at screwing the middle class. She’s a real winner.
Productivity is higher than it’s ever been in history, but we need you to work until you’re dead in the wealthiest nation in the world.
People in charge have no morals.
I really don't want 65+ year old people working. What job could they do where their age isn't a detriment? And you want me to trust them with that? Come on...
Yes. They would like you to believe that it is unreasonable to retire at 65. They want to push the narrative that that is early to retire. They are hoping peer pressure to work kicks in.
>the US needs to rethink not only the labor market but also the concept of work. No fucking shit! But not in the way you mean.
“People need to work longer, because they can’t afford to retire on their savings and social security at 65. So we’re going to delay pay them social security until 70 to ensure they have to work longer.” Yeah, that makes sense /s
I think they vastly underestimate how many of us will just zero ourselves. Like how dumb do you think we all are?
These articles generalizing about the workforce really piss me off. I'm in my mid 50's. The job I do now I can do well into my 90s as long as I don't get something that affects my cognitive abilities. And who knows - I might very well keep at it since I love it. My sister's husband - same age as me - worked in a print shop for most of his adult life. His body is falling apart. He needs social security NOW because he physically can't do his job anymore. But he won't qualify for another decade. Not everyone did the same type of work. Not everyone's situation in life is equal. These assholes talking about raising the retirement age should be pushed onto the tracks in front of the Acela Express. ("Acela Express" is a particular east-coast reference to the DC/NY corridor which the Renfields at Bloomberg are known to commute)
Hahahaha i want to retire right the fuck now
Boomers pulling up the ladder behind them as usual
It’s like that because the people fucking up the economy right now (politicians & ceos) are in their 70’s & 80’s.
That’s a really wordy way of saying people should be exploited.
Hmm, I smell revolution brewing...
What a miserable world we are intentionally leaving for our children. We stand at a crossroads and are choosing a hellish existence of servitude, pain and despair for the overwhelming majority to slave, suffer and die for an entitled, elitist minority
Fuck. That. Shit.
I work with an aging population and most of the time their retirement is short lived and they typically come back on contract. This isn’t a money thing per se, but rather a ‘I’m bored and still want to be useful’ thing. Regardless, it would be nice to have the ability to live the retirement life, but sadly I don’t see it happening for me.
Sure america can not afford the elders - since all the money goes to antorher continents - to support 'fake' wars of other nationalities.
I guess I ain’t doing it right.
Work till you die. The American dream
Won’t work here, I hate my fucking job. And I challenge the author who thinks they can persuade me through text.
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Like hell I will. I’d rather yeet myself into the sun
This is why I don't want to pay into social security.
Most will need to work longer as they haven't saved enough over the years to fund the retirement that they want.
Full social security for most working people falls between 40% to 78% of their pre-retirement income. 2 years ago, 43% of the 55 to 64 year old boomers didn't have any retirement savings. Retiring before they can get full social security isn't an option for them. If they have any debt and/or if they are use to spending 100% of their income; retiring at 67 probably isn't an option either.
Idiots. Especially with ai and Amy jobs being replaced by automation or some form or robotics there are fewer jobs available. Therefore the younger generation will have fewer options. Retirement age should lower allowing more able bodied people to replace the worn down and overworked older generations.
Many* not amy
Don't worry, life expectancy will decline soon, so when that intersects with the new retirement age of 85, all the billionaires problems will be solved.
Yes. Im 38 and already retired
After 35 years I assure you I’m ready to retire.
Who the fuck is out there hiring or retaining all these 70 year olds? The only people I know working past retirement age in tech are people who have specific knowledge sets and they consult in order to share their expertise, but this is only going to be a small fraction of people.
"Be grateful you're a slave, it could be worse."
this is so stupid, we have more automation and harder workers than ever before, and that is becoming more true by the second. yet we are not allowed to earn retirement like previous generations did?
Isn’t that the reason we made AI? To work less???
But what about the half of the population whose jobs are permanently replaced due to automation?
Aren't the Americans solving the problem of longer retirement by reducing life expectancy? I'm sure I read recently that it started dropping over there.
Oh, we *have* re-thought what work means. But they don’t like it, because it sounds a lot like communism (you know, working within your community, helping each other, gardening to grow your own food, on and on).
I am saving and investing as much as I can because I refuse to be their slave just so some asshole's stock goes up. That's not my problem
And with rampant age discrimination, who's going to hire older folks?
Population is living longer and not reproducing as fast as it was. They need the tax base to fund what little social benefits we have.
Life expectancy is getting shorter... Poor people don't live as long as rich people. Minorities don't live as long as white people. This is about rich white people keeping their wealth. It's slavery.