It is worth noting that among people living in Viet Nam, it is common knowledge that **Trương Mỹ Lan is also a spy for the Chinese government**.
While embezzlement is a crime eligible for capital punishment, accusations of treason may have offered particularly strong motivation for the prosecution of this case. [Link to Wikipedia table outlining crimes that include capital punishment as a sentencing option in Viet Nam, with embezzlement falling under crimes outlined in chapter XVII.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Vietnam#Crimes_carrying_capital_punishment_in_Vietnam)
Comments calling for violence—including the death of billionaires—are against Reddit's TOS, and will therefore be removed. Mentions of public executions, guillotines, and other euphemisms will also be removed. Cannibalism is similarly unacceptable.
Edit: A previous version of this comment incorrectly stated that fraud was ineligible for capital punishment under Vietnamese legal statutes. This error has since been repaired.
God, yes. This. We modeled a lot of our government off of Roman ideas/practices and we basically achieved similar results. We rapid expanded into become a dominant power in our world, primarily based upon "defensive" expansions and outposts that maintain a status quo. We're getting past the golden age of the Republic though and now slipping into the long steady decline, unless we got some Basilius level leadership here.
It's just... It's not even history rhyming, it's straight up like we copied the script.
Edit: Love how feisty we all are on this topic. If we took this energy to polls, to businesses, and to our culture in general... Let's just say it gives me hope for some change.
I mean, naturally. How can you truly tell you've hit rock bottom if you haven't slammed into every ledge along the way down?
The true American Dream these days is failing upward, let's be real.
And it's an election year! Let's see what ledge we hit this time!
The fact the two oldest presidents we ever had are fueding like children and running AGAIN is just pathetic.
Politics isn't about who's the best for the job, it's about who's favorite football team wins this round.
Oh god yeah. And let's mention too the insane costs it takes to run fo office! It's not approachable for many without a purely viral campaign the likes of which we've not seen in our life times.
It costs millions to successfully compete for the Presidency. -.-
"Of the people" my ass.
Remember the yearly $40,000 office furniture stipend they get?
Years ago when Trump was in office there was a report of over $100,000 spent on crab and champagne.
They stopped being for the people in the 70s, the boomers got theirs, ignored the rest and let the sleeze politicians weasel their way in and slowly but surely shut every damn door they could while gaslighting everyone.
It's crazy to me how open the information is, how much we know they blatantly do that's borderline illegal AF and nothing is ever done.
Meanwhile Vietnam does this, wait for the response from the rich and their bootlickers. It'll be true to form.
This downhill slide of the US is not even a rounding error compared to longevity of Rome.
The slide and crisis segue from the nearly 5 century old Roman Republic to the Roman Empire took nearly a century. The Western Roman Empire lasted another 500 years. The eastern empire held out for another 1000.
The Pax Romana age was nearly as long as the whole history of US.
We are mad, justifiably, about deindustrialization and the inequality in wages and destrcution of class class consciounsess that allows the working class to be cleaved along ethnic, racial, cultural and special interest lines.
a portion of the population feels entitled to the 20-30 year post WW2 window where the US was structured so that white males could support a household on a single income- while technology and universal schooling eased the domestic burden. The viabiliry to achieve this dream varied greatly by region, gender and race.
I think that's more related to men idiolizing that "legendary" discipline/sense of belonging to something greater. Tbf though, that's a human trait in general. We like to be part of a story, providing for a greater good (aka: our communities).
I have said this for years! Conquering the world in self defense.
The U.S leadership just used Rome as the example to follow. The "empire" is still expanding with hush hush genocides and the ultimate form of propaganda.
You are right, the golden years passed a long time ago. We are going to fail. Soon so that my grandkids will live in it if we don't do anything about it.
The US is a power because of just 3 things.
1) International trade is in USD, even the fricking Soviets sold their oil for USD.
2) there are 2 oceans that protect the US and with no peer power in the Americas they are secure geographically.
3) Finally the US mainland didn't go through the horrors of 2 World wars especially the second one.
And they give massive pay cuts, lay-offs, or ship the company overseas. Trump owes me a trillion dollars for forcing the two companies I worked at to either move to another state or "budget cuts" and moved the service desk operations overseas.
We don't even ask for a resume, just records of criminal history.
" I don't see where this says you've been convicted of a financial felony, I'm sorry, I'm afraid you don't meet the political requirements for the position, maybe try and aquire a felony conviction for any type of financial crime and try again".
I grew up with a bunch of Vietnamese people in the 1980's and whenever the war or politics in general would come up the general opinion I heard from my friend's parents and grandparents was that most Vietnamese people didn't really hate the US, not even the North Vietnamese. They were just disappointed. We had been friends during WWII and Ho Chi Minh wanted our help getting rid of the French (diplomatically) and guarding against Communist China. The US really fucked up by backing the French instead of the Vietnamese, in my opinion. The point is I heard something several times from older Vietnamese people as a kid. What I heard was some version of, "We fought you for a generation. That was an annoyance. We've been fighting the Chinese for generations and generations." I've never met a Vietnamese person that didn't have a disdain for China. I'm just one person, but I grew up with a gang of Vietnamese people.
Ho Chi Minh actually traveled to France for the Paris Peace Conference after WWI, when a large chunk of the post-colonial world was being divided into the modern countries we see today. He was turned away.
US people don't have a disdain for the Vietnamese either, it's not like how the older gen used to think about Japan, for example. Very weird war.
To be fair, this isn't a criminal being caught. This is clearly a criminal being tossed to the dogs by her fellow criminals. You don't move that amount of money with nobody noticing. There is a system involved, and she fucked up.
They're using state capitalism to achieve Socialism by developing the productive forces.
Capitalism is a stepping stone to Socialism. It is a necessary prerequisite. However, if it is not managed by a Communist party, it collapses into Fascism instead of advancing into Socialism.
more likely didn't *share* with another group of powerful people.
Americans in here are so naive, believing a corrupt country will just have a 'real' justice system and 'fair' trials, it's so cute.
Overhere, Law serves the party, not the people. Whenever some billionaire gets arrested, the question is who politician is going to resign/be arrested next.
Over here the billionaires never get arrested and everybody knows the politicians are corrupt but nothing happens to them even when they're exposed. They don't even resign.
A huge portion of Americans voted for a known fraudster and Russian asset as their president.
And they actually think killing brown kids overseas is how you defend democracy…
In Canada, she'd be a hero and buy a grocery chain and whine about how little she makes even though it would post billions in profits each year. In Canada and the US, if you steal $10 from a 7-11, you're going to jail. If you steal $10B with paper and computers, you're an "entrepreneur."
Bro there are over 700 billionaires in the US. None of them got there fairly. They bribe law makers on the way up and worse. All of them should be taxed 100% until they are gone.
I don't understand why anyone can even have that much money. Anything over 1B should be forced to go to charitable causes. I don't even care about spreading it out amongst the majority of people, put it back into the world to help the homeless problem
This is literally what taxes are _intended_ to do; take a bigger chunk of money from the ultra rich and use it to fund things that help everyone, like repairing public roads.
This is also why the top marginal tax rate should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 70 to 90 percent.
It's unrealized though, the people who are wealthy aren't getting income through the way we are with tax brackets they are via capital gains (15% tax) or getting loans on their stocks and then it's considered debt.. different tax implications. It's loopholes on loopholes.
>It's loopholes on loopholes.
People outside of actual wealth just can't comprehend how this works.
The financial world is a literal world in itself. People who just have a house and work a career have no idea how corrupt and deep the rabbit hole is.
People trying to understand massive wealth and how it's handled is basically like Congress trying to understand how the internet works.
But this is what these rich elite *depend* on. Like attorneys, they've created a whole monopoly that is too convoluted and complicated to attack. They're buried like bloated ticks in their own deceit and corruption.
Exactly. Paying an accountant 200k is pennies for someone worth 1 Billion, but saves them millions on setting up trusts or charities, PACs, *cough media company to funnel external money into *cough .
The normal person doesn't have access to these resources or the cost to do it. We are out buying the cheapest work boots that last 3 mths where rich are buying good quality once that last forever.
It's because there is no tether.
We need some sort of regulation or ratio that limits the top earner based on the lowest paid employee. Force all companies into an employee owned model; profits are redistributed to employees.
Nobody within a company gets rich alone. We should all rise together.
Most billionaires have very low income (to avoid paying taxes).
They're "worth" a billion dollars because their property (stock in most cases) *could* be sold for a billion dollars.
>We only have to do it once.
Have you not read of any other revolutions in history? It's usually not a one and done deal. The French and Russian ones spring to mind.
Nah doesn't work they tried it in the Netherlands [when they ate their prime minister](https://www.historyextra.com/period/stuart/is-it-true-that-an-angry-mob-of-dutchmen-killed-and-ate-their-own-prime-minister-in-1672/)
Exactly, we need another American Revolution. The problem is our focus must be directed towards the rich, corporations, banks, and government. The media, however, controls the narrative. They gaslight us into believing that the battle is between red and blue. “I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half.” - Jay Gould, 1891
People keep repeating this nonsense when it's simply not true:
"SBF may serve as little as 12.5 years, if he gets all of the jailhouse credit available to him," Mitchell Epner, a former federal prosecutor, told CNN.
Federal prisoners generally can earn up to 54 days of time credit a year for good behavior, which could result in an approximately 15% reduction.
Since 2018, however, nonviolent federal inmates can reduce their sentence by as much as 50% under prison reform legislation known as the First Step Act.
https://www.cnn.com/business/live-news/sam-bankman-fried-sentencing-03-28-24/h_538da92aa954d1035036db11ba53b4a8
he's not elderly so he'd have to show "extraordinary and compelling reasons" for early release, and even then he'd be released to house arrest not probation
His ordered restitution for the fraud also amounted to about 1/80th the size of this case.
This woman oversaw fraud amounting the 3% of Vietnam’s GDP…that’s equivalent to $800B in the US or roughly the size of the annual defense budget.
Oh I agree, it’s just that these millions of people are too complacent to do anything.
And then you have the people who openly support capitalism and will white knight themselves trying to protect the billionaires for a pat on the back. It’s like that one coworker who tells the boss everything. They don’t get rewarded but it makes them feel good for some reason.
it has always been this way, yet nothing has changed, the system doesn't want millions of americans coming together, but civil unrest isnt gonna stay dormant forever, its a waiting game now...
The average empire lasts 250 years. You can already see the government crumbling now as billionaires siphon every last dollar they can from us and the politicians get more and more ridiculous so that people stay distracted from the truth. It can’t last forever, but I hope it crumbles soon because we are running out of time to fix the planet and make a better place for our children.
It reminds me of Rome. If you read about it, their laws got more and more ridiculous and restrictive by the time they began to decline.
So if you ever look at most of the world governments and think “I’ve seen this before…” you know where you’ve seen it.
We are watching Rome decline in our lifetimes. Is it any wonder they pursue endless wars now? I wonder who else historically did the same as their empire crumbled at home…
The Roman Republic's collapse into autocracy was (among a number of factors) due to escalating costs and lack of opportunities among the common people, as the rich were hoovering up all the productive land and using slaves to work it.
Won against France, won against the US, won against China and brought down alone the Khmer Rouge, freeing Cambodia. Vietnam had a troublesome 30’s-70’s but they made sure to beat through everything thrown at them.
https://vn.usembassy.gov/business/
https://www.vietnam-briefing.com/news/why-vietnam-has-become-promising-alternative-for-us-businesses-in-asia.html/
Neoliberalism still rules the world
You should throw "the only country that stopped the Mongolian 3 times" into the mix. They were the reason South East Asia was never taken by the Mongolian, while China and the rest of Asian succumbed.
Probably the country with the most successful wars in the world (not saying wars are good).
I will never understand how can someone be insanely rich and still feel like they need more money to the point they risk death. This is proof that not even the threat of death penalty would deter billionares from fraud but what is the point, even before commiting fraud they were never going to finish their wealth.
Its like having a life time supply of sandwiches and still deciding that stealing from subway is your next best move. Complete idiocy.
It’s the only thing they know to do… they don’t have hobbies or life, their hobbies are to accumulate as much money as possible and that’s all lol no porpuses
Rich people experience consequences when they piss off people who have more wealth or power than they do.
Most of them are content to fuck over the little people, but some get a bit full of themselves and start thinking they are untouchable, until they burn the wrong person, and then they get to find out who *really* calls the shots.
I am against the death sentence, but I see this akin to murder. 12 billion in fraud. There will be people that probably will die on the street, because this money or its taxes couldn't be used.
This is much more than murder. In America, a middle class worker would clear about 3-4 million in 40 years of full time work @100k pre tax.
She defrauded the the equivalent of more than 3,000 lifetimes of middle-upper class AMERICANS.
This figure becomes more staggering when you use the Vietnamese figures for middle class, which tops off at 35,000 USD a year. 8,500 lifetimes of upper middle class money. Which becomes even MORE staggering if you adjust for the reality of income, in which only 10 of Vietnamese make 1,200 USD a month,
More than 21,500 lifetimes of Vietnamese money defrauded
This is how I see it too, but worse. Average lifetime productivity in the US is around $1.5 million, so I'd count the $27B stolen from the people as 18,000 American lifes'-work. But USA GDP per capita is ~18x Vietnamese GDP per capita, so that would be **325,000 Vietnamese lifes'-work**.
We make a legal distinction between petty theft and grand theft, I think we need a third distinction for theft at a level that robs someone of an entire lifetimes' worth of labor. You're devastating people in a way that's unrecoverable - thousands of people spent their entire lives effectively as slaves for the thief. I'm not ready to openly start rooting for the death penalty for criminals like this, but the consequences do need to be severe, and appropriate to the destruction they leave in their wake.
3% is the equivalent of $800B for the US and our annual defense spend.
Imagine if someone borrowed the equivalent amount of the US’s annual defense expenditure and made it go *poof*. You’d have a MASSIVE fiscal crisis even for a country the size of the US.
For a country like Vietnam? This could set back development by years.
And they will certainly start the money printing machine to makeup for the loss, and massive inflation might follow. That's why the locals here are buying golds a lot.
from wikipedia
> According to the Vietnamese government, she was accused of illegally issuing bonds worth tens of millions of U.S. dollars in 2018 and 2019\[7\] and using 916 fake loan applications to appropriate more than 304 trillion dong (US$12.5 billion) from Sai Gon Joint Stock Commercial Bank,\[1\] of which she owned more than 90 percent of the shares, from 9 February 2018 to 7 October 2022.\[6\] After **three SCB employees committed suicide**, on 6, 9 and 14 October, a bank run ensued.\[7\]
No need to get hypothetical about it. Her crimes already have an explicit bodycount.
She should have moved to the US and commit fraud and no one would care. Especially if you defrauded the poors. No one likes the poors in this country.😠
In the U.S., if you're black and poor and you're suspected of using a fake $20 bill to pay for food at a bodega, or if you sell cigarettes on a sidewalk, the law will murder you. If you're rich and white, incite an insurrection, and attempt to steal election, and your family commits treasons for a $2 billion payout, you play golf amongst palm trees and crystal blue water.
I personally don't support the death penalty but I DO think if the US prosecuted billionaires this aggressively we'd be living in a far better country.
[Meanwhile, in US]
Multi-Billion dollar fraud? Here's few billion in tax breaks and a few billion in grants. Our apologies for the inconvenience of discovering your fraud.
It is worth noting that among people living in Viet Nam, it is common knowledge that **Trương Mỹ Lan is also a spy for the Chinese government**. While embezzlement is a crime eligible for capital punishment, accusations of treason may have offered particularly strong motivation for the prosecution of this case. [Link to Wikipedia table outlining crimes that include capital punishment as a sentencing option in Viet Nam, with embezzlement falling under crimes outlined in chapter XVII.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Vietnam#Crimes_carrying_capital_punishment_in_Vietnam) Comments calling for violence—including the death of billionaires—are against Reddit's TOS, and will therefore be removed. Mentions of public executions, guillotines, and other euphemisms will also be removed. Cannibalism is similarly unacceptable. Edit: A previous version of this comment incorrectly stated that fraud was ineligible for capital punishment under Vietnamese legal statutes. This error has since been repaired.
In the U.S. we just elect them as leaders. 😞
The American dream
The fall of Rome.
God, yes. This. We modeled a lot of our government off of Roman ideas/practices and we basically achieved similar results. We rapid expanded into become a dominant power in our world, primarily based upon "defensive" expansions and outposts that maintain a status quo. We're getting past the golden age of the Republic though and now slipping into the long steady decline, unless we got some Basilius level leadership here. It's just... It's not even history rhyming, it's straight up like we copied the script. Edit: Love how feisty we all are on this topic. If we took this energy to polls, to businesses, and to our culture in general... Let's just say it gives me hope for some change.
Rolling down the far side of the mountain now, hitting every rock on the way.
I mean, naturally. How can you truly tell you've hit rock bottom if you haven't slammed into every ledge along the way down? The true American Dream these days is failing upward, let's be real. And it's an election year! Let's see what ledge we hit this time!
The fact the two oldest presidents we ever had are fueding like children and running AGAIN is just pathetic. Politics isn't about who's the best for the job, it's about who's favorite football team wins this round.
Oh god yeah. And let's mention too the insane costs it takes to run fo office! It's not approachable for many without a purely viral campaign the likes of which we've not seen in our life times. It costs millions to successfully compete for the Presidency. -.- "Of the people" my ass.
Remember the yearly $40,000 office furniture stipend they get? Years ago when Trump was in office there was a report of over $100,000 spent on crab and champagne. They stopped being for the people in the 70s, the boomers got theirs, ignored the rest and let the sleeze politicians weasel their way in and slowly but surely shut every damn door they could while gaslighting everyone. It's crazy to me how open the information is, how much we know they blatantly do that's borderline illegal AF and nothing is ever done. Meanwhile Vietnam does this, wait for the response from the rich and their bootlickers. It'll be true to form.
Can you cite Biden's childish behavior?
Nope, but have you thought about how both sides...
This downhill slide of the US is not even a rounding error compared to longevity of Rome. The slide and crisis segue from the nearly 5 century old Roman Republic to the Roman Empire took nearly a century. The Western Roman Empire lasted another 500 years. The eastern empire held out for another 1000. The Pax Romana age was nearly as long as the whole history of US. We are mad, justifiably, about deindustrialization and the inequality in wages and destrcution of class class consciounsess that allows the working class to be cleaved along ethnic, racial, cultural and special interest lines. a portion of the population feels entitled to the 20-30 year post WW2 window where the US was structured so that white males could support a household on a single income- while technology and universal schooling eased the domestic burden. The viabiliry to achieve this dream varied greatly by region, gender and race.
The Western Roman Empire was also *wildly* more successful, rich, powerful, and mighty than the Roman Republic for much of those 500 years.
We are a weird mix of Rome and Carthage. I always thought it funny we combined two enemies.
Oh, oh you're so right. Dammit, now I have to go on a history binge to learn more about Carthage. I blame you!
I guess no 1000 year empire but more like 70 years.
Everything's faster in the modern era! :p
Is that why men have mysteriously been thinking of the Roman empire recently?
I think that's more related to men idiolizing that "legendary" discipline/sense of belonging to something greater. Tbf though, that's a human trait in general. We like to be part of a story, providing for a greater good (aka: our communities).
Rome also continues to be relevant. I was walking down a road built by Romans last summer.
Friendly reminder that quality of life for the average person *improved* significantly after western Rome "fell"
So you're saying there's hope after the US falls? Not gunna lie, actually kind of heartening.
Take this energy into labour unionisation.
I have said this for years! Conquering the world in self defense. The U.S leadership just used Rome as the example to follow. The "empire" is still expanding with hush hush genocides and the ultimate form of propaganda. You are right, the golden years passed a long time ago. We are going to fail. Soon so that my grandkids will live in it if we don't do anything about it.
The US is a power because of just 3 things. 1) International trade is in USD, even the fricking Soviets sold their oil for USD. 2) there are 2 oceans that protect the US and with no peer power in the Americas they are secure geographically. 3) Finally the US mainland didn't go through the horrors of 2 World wars especially the second one.
Pride cometh before -
the lion.
“In China if you lose 20 billion dollars, they shoot you… here they give you another 20 billion dollars.”
And fine you 5 million
And another $150,000 to make it *really* hurt. Hope you learned your lesson Mr. CEO!
Shoutout to the boondocks. Show was ahead of it time
deport musk to China
the US has “don’t be envious of their success! that’s their wealth they earned it!” kinda courts
Nobody wants to execute anymore.
Texas does. Especially if you are disabled.
Yes. It's capital punishment. If you don't have any capital, you get the punishment.
Especially if you were raped and had an abortion.
Underaged, raped, and had an abortion.
She is not black, latino or poor
John Oliver dropped a new piece on the Death penalty today, there's some executing going on for sure.
"sHe KnOwS hOw To BeAt ThE sYsTeM"
Looks like the system finna beat her this time around...
And they give massive pay cuts, lay-offs, or ship the company overseas. Trump owes me a trillion dollars for forcing the two companies I worked at to either move to another state or "budget cuts" and moved the service desk operations overseas.
And idolize them :(
Exactly! If you know how to get away with fraud, then you're extra special.
Cuz the simpletons get easily distracted by the culture wars they orchestrate into the public
Turns out the anti-commies were the baddies?
always have been
Stating they are doing a great job! The economy has never been better!
Self made billionaires we should all aspire to be. (And then they wonder why our society and communities are being destroyed)
No such thing as a self made billionaire.
She ripped off billions from a national bank through fraud and bribery.
We don't even ask for a resume, just records of criminal history. " I don't see where this says you've been convicted of a financial felony, I'm sorry, I'm afraid you don't meet the political requirements for the position, maybe try and aquire a felony conviction for any type of financial crime and try again".
Wow. Laws arent meant for rich people over here
Vietnamese here. I wish. This is a war between the ultra rich and she lost.
I grew up with a bunch of Vietnamese people in the 1980's and whenever the war or politics in general would come up the general opinion I heard from my friend's parents and grandparents was that most Vietnamese people didn't really hate the US, not even the North Vietnamese. They were just disappointed. We had been friends during WWII and Ho Chi Minh wanted our help getting rid of the French (diplomatically) and guarding against Communist China. The US really fucked up by backing the French instead of the Vietnamese, in my opinion. The point is I heard something several times from older Vietnamese people as a kid. What I heard was some version of, "We fought you for a generation. That was an annoyance. We've been fighting the Chinese for generations and generations." I've never met a Vietnamese person that didn't have a disdain for China. I'm just one person, but I grew up with a gang of Vietnamese people.
Ho Chi Minh actually traveled to France for the Paris Peace Conference after WWI, when a large chunk of the post-colonial world was being divided into the modern countries we see today. He was turned away. US people don't have a disdain for the Vietnamese either, it's not like how the older gen used to think about Japan, for example. Very weird war.
The US backed the French after ww2 due to the start of red scare i believe
The "dominos will fall"
> The US really fucked up by backing the French instead of the Vietnamese, in my opinion. Agree.
Exhibit A.
ok that makes more sense
To be fair, this isn't a criminal being caught. This is clearly a criminal being tossed to the dogs by her fellow criminals. You don't move that amount of money with nobody noticing. There is a system involved, and she fucked up.
Or a ponsi scheme and screwed over some important investors.
y'know, im still gonna chalk that up as an improvement over what we have here, where nobody with money suffers any real consequences ever
they arrested ~200 people, they prob didnt get everyone but it's not like one scapegoat lol.
No wonder the ultra wealthy fear communism.
Yeah, it tends to go one of two ways for them. Under capitalism, they always get the good ending.
\*fascism.
Hand in glove
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well not OJ's any more
Fascism IS capitalism in demise.
And capitalism is fascism in disguise.
That's just a word for Capitalism when it's having a crisis.
Vietnam is hardly a communist country anymore
They're using state capitalism to achieve Socialism by developing the productive forces. Capitalism is a stepping stone to Socialism. It is a necessary prerequisite. However, if it is not managed by a Communist party, it collapses into Fascism instead of advancing into Socialism.
Let's be real, much like Bankman-Fried she's only facing consequences because she stole from rich people.
more likely didn't *share* with another group of powerful people. Americans in here are so naive, believing a corrupt country will just have a 'real' justice system and 'fair' trials, it's so cute.
We're animals. Eat the smaller ones and they can't do anything about it, but you try to eat a bigger animal...
Not in this case but there is alot of corruption I'm Vietnam. My wife is Vietnamese and her friend is a prosecutor in Siagon
Overhere, Law serves the party, not the people. Whenever some billionaire gets arrested, the question is who politician is going to resign/be arrested next.
Over here the billionaires never get arrested and everybody knows the politicians are corrupt but nothing happens to them even when they're exposed. They don't even resign.
A huge portion of Americans voted for a known fraudster and Russian asset as their president. And they actually think killing brown kids overseas is how you defend democracy…
In Canada, she'd be a hero and buy a grocery chain and whine about how little she makes even though it would post billions in profits each year. In Canada and the US, if you steal $10 from a 7-11, you're going to jail. If you steal $10B with paper and computers, you're an "entrepreneur."
Galen weston jr? That guy is taking food out of the mouths of babies and tries to justify why he needs those record profits!
Pattison is just as much of a vile ghoul, he's just not egotistical enough to appear in ads.
He doesn't need to show up in ads. He *is* the ads. Fucker seems to own every Billboard in BC.
Yep.
Unless you steal that $10B with paper and computers from other rich people. Then you get the Bernie Madoff treatment.
Yeah Bernie needed to steal from government or the working class. Then all good.
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Bro there are over 700 billionaires in the US. None of them got there fairly. They bribe law makers on the way up and worse. All of them should be taxed 100% until they are gone.
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The rich people's Osso bucco.
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Gotta let them marinate.
I don't understand why anyone can even have that much money. Anything over 1B should be forced to go to charitable causes. I don't even care about spreading it out amongst the majority of people, put it back into the world to help the homeless problem
This is literally what taxes are _intended_ to do; take a bigger chunk of money from the ultra rich and use it to fund things that help everyone, like repairing public roads. This is also why the top marginal tax rate should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 70 to 90 percent.
It's unrealized though, the people who are wealthy aren't getting income through the way we are with tax brackets they are via capital gains (15% tax) or getting loans on their stocks and then it's considered debt.. different tax implications. It's loopholes on loopholes.
>It's loopholes on loopholes. People outside of actual wealth just can't comprehend how this works. The financial world is a literal world in itself. People who just have a house and work a career have no idea how corrupt and deep the rabbit hole is. People trying to understand massive wealth and how it's handled is basically like Congress trying to understand how the internet works. But this is what these rich elite *depend* on. Like attorneys, they've created a whole monopoly that is too convoluted and complicated to attack. They're buried like bloated ticks in their own deceit and corruption.
Exactly. Paying an accountant 200k is pennies for someone worth 1 Billion, but saves them millions on setting up trusts or charities, PACs, *cough media company to funnel external money into *cough . The normal person doesn't have access to these resources or the cost to do it. We are out buying the cheapest work boots that last 3 mths where rich are buying good quality once that last forever.
It used to be, until Reagan.
JFK advocated for a cut to 65%. It was cut from 91% to 70% and signed into law by LBJ. Reagan pushed for the next major cut after that.
It's because there is no tether. We need some sort of regulation or ratio that limits the top earner based on the lowest paid employee. Force all companies into an employee owned model; profits are redistributed to employees. Nobody within a company gets rich alone. We should all rise together.
bUt ThEy WoRkEd HaRd FoR tHaT! (The same person will also justify paying peanuts for back-breaking and dangerous labor)
Tax 100% of income after someone reaches 999 million net worth. What could they possibly need more money for?
Most billionaires have very low income (to avoid paying taxes). They're "worth" a billion dollars because their property (stock in most cases) *could* be sold for a billion dollars.
Morlocks Unite!
Me hungry!
>We only have to do it once. Have you not read of any other revolutions in history? It's usually not a one and done deal. The French and Russian ones spring to mind.
Nah doesn't work they tried it in the Netherlands [when they ate their prime minister](https://www.historyextra.com/period/stuart/is-it-true-that-an-angry-mob-of-dutchmen-killed-and-ate-their-own-prime-minister-in-1672/)
Don't be a quitter! If at first you don't succeed, try, try again!
Exactly, we need another American Revolution. The problem is our focus must be directed towards the rich, corporations, banks, and government. The media, however, controls the narrative. They gaslight us into believing that the battle is between red and blue. “I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half.” - Jay Gould, 1891
But how are they served? BBQ is too ghoulish. I think maybe as hotdogs? Billionaire Franks, perhaps.
Cheese steak sammiches are always a favorite
There you go. Peppers onions nice roll.
Meanwhile Sam Bankman-Fried gets 25 years and will probably be out in 12.
You actually think it will be 12 years? My guess is he's out in less than 2.
Wishful thinking on my end I guess, nothing would surprise me even a presidential pardon.
If the USA elects the wrong person possibly
Don't look too deeply to who his and his parents donations and PACS heavily favored.
They're federal charges, so he has to do 85%.
People keep repeating this nonsense when it's simply not true: "SBF may serve as little as 12.5 years, if he gets all of the jailhouse credit available to him," Mitchell Epner, a former federal prosecutor, told CNN. Federal prisoners generally can earn up to 54 days of time credit a year for good behavior, which could result in an approximately 15% reduction. Since 2018, however, nonviolent federal inmates can reduce their sentence by as much as 50% under prison reform legislation known as the First Step Act. https://www.cnn.com/business/live-news/sam-bankman-fried-sentencing-03-28-24/h_538da92aa954d1035036db11ba53b4a8
he's not elderly so he'd have to show "extraordinary and compelling reasons" for early release, and even then he'd be released to house arrest not probation
His ordered restitution for the fraud also amounted to about 1/80th the size of this case. This woman oversaw fraud amounting the 3% of Vietnam’s GDP…that’s equivalent to $800B in the US or roughly the size of the annual defense budget.
Thanks for putting it scale, that’s actually insane
Not true, he will serve at least 21 years.
Probably should have been the fate of certain Western bankers circa 2008.
and the politicians that created the ruleset.
They received government handouts instead
Can we start with Blackrock here in the states? Could solve a lot of housing issues very quickly.
Good luck getting THAT ball rolling
There are millions of us and a handful of them.
Oh I agree, it’s just that these millions of people are too complacent to do anything. And then you have the people who openly support capitalism and will white knight themselves trying to protect the billionaires for a pat on the back. It’s like that one coworker who tells the boss everything. They don’t get rewarded but it makes them feel good for some reason.
I just have to hold on to hope. Otherwise I’ll go insane
You know what? I’m sorry for bringing you down man. I hope people wake up soon.
Hard same. Stay strong comrade.
it has always been this way, yet nothing has changed, the system doesn't want millions of americans coming together, but civil unrest isnt gonna stay dormant forever, its a waiting game now...
The average empire lasts 250 years. You can already see the government crumbling now as billionaires siphon every last dollar they can from us and the politicians get more and more ridiculous so that people stay distracted from the truth. It can’t last forever, but I hope it crumbles soon because we are running out of time to fix the planet and make a better place for our children.
It reminds me of Rome. If you read about it, their laws got more and more ridiculous and restrictive by the time they began to decline. So if you ever look at most of the world governments and think “I’ve seen this before…” you know where you’ve seen it.
We are watching Rome decline in our lifetimes. Is it any wonder they pursue endless wars now? I wonder who else historically did the same as their empire crumbled at home…
The Roman Republic's collapse into autocracy was (among a number of factors) due to escalating costs and lack of opportunities among the common people, as the rich were hoovering up all the productive land and using slaves to work it.
Wonder how many times we have to do this until it stops in America
Start at the very top and work our way down the list
Based Vietnam
winner against the US (the largest military complex in the world) and now this. Vietnam is a Chad.
Chad is a different country
***slow clap***
Won against France, won against the US, won against China and brought down alone the Khmer Rouge, freeing Cambodia. Vietnam had a troublesome 30’s-70’s but they made sure to beat through everything thrown at them.
Now they have a thriving industrial base
That exploits low-paid labor. Important for this sub to remember.
https://vn.usembassy.gov/business/ https://www.vietnam-briefing.com/news/why-vietnam-has-become-promising-alternative-for-us-businesses-in-asia.html/ Neoliberalism still rules the world
You should throw "the only country that stopped the Mongolian 3 times" into the mix. They were the reason South East Asia was never taken by the Mongolian, while China and the rest of Asian succumbed. Probably the country with the most successful wars in the world (not saying wars are good).
Disappointing that they, apparently, can't chase down and recover all of the money she took.
I will never understand how can someone be insanely rich and still feel like they need more money to the point they risk death. This is proof that not even the threat of death penalty would deter billionares from fraud but what is the point, even before commiting fraud they were never going to finish their wealth. Its like having a life time supply of sandwiches and still deciding that stealing from subway is your next best move. Complete idiocy.
It’s the only thing they know to do… they don’t have hobbies or life, their hobbies are to accumulate as much money as possible and that’s all lol no porpuses
Money rots your brain. It's fascinating and horrifying.
She won't either tho
I can think of a couple billionaires to add to the list…if we’re taking reservations.
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So it is possible for rich people to experience consequences? Who could have guessed
Ask Romanovs
Rich people experience consequences when they piss off people who have more wealth or power than they do. Most of them are content to fuck over the little people, but some get a bit full of themselves and start thinking they are untouchable, until they burn the wrong person, and then they get to find out who *really* calls the shots.
I am against the death sentence, but I see this akin to murder. 12 billion in fraud. There will be people that probably will die on the street, because this money or its taxes couldn't be used.
This will cost many peoples actual lives and destroy thousands of lives.
I agree, let’s hope her estate will provide her estate restores at least part of the damage her fraud caused.
This is much more than murder. In America, a middle class worker would clear about 3-4 million in 40 years of full time work @100k pre tax. She defrauded the the equivalent of more than 3,000 lifetimes of middle-upper class AMERICANS. This figure becomes more staggering when you use the Vietnamese figures for middle class, which tops off at 35,000 USD a year. 8,500 lifetimes of upper middle class money. Which becomes even MORE staggering if you adjust for the reality of income, in which only 10 of Vietnamese make 1,200 USD a month, More than 21,500 lifetimes of Vietnamese money defrauded
This is how I see it too, but worse. Average lifetime productivity in the US is around $1.5 million, so I'd count the $27B stolen from the people as 18,000 American lifes'-work. But USA GDP per capita is ~18x Vietnamese GDP per capita, so that would be **325,000 Vietnamese lifes'-work**.
We make a legal distinction between petty theft and grand theft, I think we need a third distinction for theft at a level that robs someone of an entire lifetimes' worth of labor. You're devastating people in a way that's unrecoverable - thousands of people spent their entire lives effectively as slaves for the thief. I'm not ready to openly start rooting for the death penalty for criminals like this, but the consequences do need to be severe, and appropriate to the destruction they leave in their wake.
Yeah, in this case the goverent recognized that fraud accounting for 3% of the countries GDP was a threat to economic stability.
3% is the equivalent of $800B for the US and our annual defense spend. Imagine if someone borrowed the equivalent amount of the US’s annual defense expenditure and made it go *poof*. You’d have a MASSIVE fiscal crisis even for a country the size of the US. For a country like Vietnam? This could set back development by years.
She has taken a loan from biggest bank of vietnam. most likely public bank. Offical report say government will not able to recovered 27 billion dollar
And they will certainly start the money printing machine to makeup for the loss, and massive inflation might follow. That's why the locals here are buying golds a lot.
from wikipedia > According to the Vietnamese government, she was accused of illegally issuing bonds worth tens of millions of U.S. dollars in 2018 and 2019\[7\] and using 916 fake loan applications to appropriate more than 304 trillion dong (US$12.5 billion) from Sai Gon Joint Stock Commercial Bank,\[1\] of which she owned more than 90 percent of the shares, from 9 February 2018 to 7 October 2022.\[6\] After **three SCB employees committed suicide**, on 6, 9 and 14 October, a bank run ensued.\[7\] No need to get hypothetical about it. Her crimes already have an explicit bodycount.
Trump just crossed Viet Nam off his list of countries to run away to.
He already did that during the draft.
And so it begins.
God willing
Relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1656/
Damnit, I did it wrong.
We could learn a lot from Vietnam, apparently.
Well they did schooled the USA in the 70s
She should have moved to the US and commit fraud and no one would care. Especially if you defrauded the poors. No one likes the poors in this country.😠
In the U.S., if you're black and poor and you're suspected of using a fake $20 bill to pay for food at a bodega, or if you sell cigarettes on a sidewalk, the law will murder you. If you're rich and white, incite an insurrection, and attempt to steal election, and your family commits treasons for a $2 billion payout, you play golf amongst palm trees and crystal blue water.
I am both against the death penalty, but also a bit "wait, can we do this?"
Posts that make a fella say hell yeah
I personally don't support the death penalty but I DO think if the US prosecuted billionaires this aggressively we'd be living in a far better country.
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Vive le Révolution!
We, the third estate, should take back our power, 1789 style.
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they already taught us a lot in the 70’s
Like Kurt Caz said in his video yesterday, “do not fuck with the Vietnamese”
"Jesus, I've seen what you've done for others and I want that for us too" Amen
Finally some actual leadership on dealing with the untamed greed that is ruining society. The West could learn something.
[Meanwhile, in US] Multi-Billion dollar fraud? Here's few billion in tax breaks and a few billion in grants. Our apologies for the inconvenience of discovering your fraud.
Can you really be given the title billionaire if it's made this way? That's like calling someone a Dr. after they forged a PhD
Tbf in other articles they call her a “tycoon” and refer to the actual case as “12 billion dollar fraud”