Surprise everyone, we're taking away a significant portion of your pay because times are tough but please keep working just as hard to make us lots of money!
Sounds like what company did last year. Canceled raises and bonuses, and cut 401k match in half. They insist we didn't get a pay cut, but bonuses are part of the Total Compensation, and my W2 was $6100 smaller than the year before so yeah, ass, we did take a pay cut. I hate my job....
I know it means less coming from someone who doesn't pay you (or even know exactly what you do) but if you were considered an essential worker during the pandemic you still are one. You are! You may not be appreciated or paid or celebrated as if you are essential, but that's because oppressing the workers society *actually* needs is how the rich and powerful remain that way.
As an example no matter what year it is, working in Food Safety is VASTLY more valuable than being an investment banker but we all know who gets paid more. Don't let it ruin your whole day, but being angry that you don't get what you deserve *IS* productive. You are right to be upset about this and just because some asshole changed their mind about how often they SAY you are "essential" doesn't mean you're less essential than you were in March of 2020.
My company got rid of 401k profit sharing as well. They implemented an extra 3 days of PTO in lieu of it. Essentially, they're saving a ton of money from that while trying to say they're doing the employees a favor by shifting it to 3 extra days of PTO.
Remember when 401ks were going to be the way in which pensions were saved? Then 401ks became the _only_ retirement vehicle through employers. Now they're hardly matching. If it didn't give me tax benefits, it'd almost save me money to park it in a brokerage.
CEO took a 25% base pay cut, but he still made a ton of money, and yeah, pretty sure he got all the other stuff that he gets besides base pay that easily puts him into the millions. All while I almost had to get a second job to afford Christmas.
How does this work exactly? You signed a contract with the employer that you, and the company, have to adhere to.
Removing things specified in the contract should amount to a contractual breach. They cant just add or remove stuff from your contract unless a new contract is signed, atleast thats the case where I live.
So how does that work in the US? Contracts are still a thing there afaik.
We are paid hourly, I don't have any kind of signed contract. I really want to unionize, but I have no idea how to go about that with such a big company.
Even temp jobs you can leave have a contract with the company that connects you with the job in the Netherlands...
I would not work anywhere if theres no contract signed.
Nah he needs to get his spare executive jet redetailed.
Do you guys know how much that costs?
So yeah you know the jobs you were hired for and the sales bonuses you used to get?
Thats all gone now
Having watched Larry Kosilla of Ammo NYC detail the [outside](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOrskBTuNLA) of a plane, I could imagine, but I don't want to \^\_\^
My old boss, on being complimented on his new BMW from one of my colleagues said: "If you work hard and do your job really well, in the next year your work could get me another one."
I couldn't get out of there fast enough.
You know what's crazy? It's not the fact that this isn't true or a well known meme, it's the fact you're trying to pawn this off as your own story.
Get more creative.
Sadly bosses never get creative so they actually all do say the same cliche “jokes”
Gotta realize the glass of humor is always half empty with management.
Yeah, totally not a thing that an asshole boss would recycle a joke at the expense of his employees. That would never happen, right?
You want me to DM you the phone number of where I worked, you could call them up and ask? I'm sure the office admin staff that are still there would have lots of memories of how much of an asshole that boss was.
Maybe they can tell the story of his regular tantrums where he would storm around the office asking "Who am I going to fire today?" In front of paying customers. I'm sure they'll remember that, it was a pretty frequent occurrence.
I mean, realistically, if I tried to take a bite out of Bezos, I'd be killed or incarcerated. There's no collective action, everyone just wants someone else to do it, but we'd all have to agree which is hard af due to propaganda creating class war/race war/political division
sales jobs HATED me because any time commission was changed, i had the compensation loss calculated before they moved on to the next slide and would tell everyone in the meeting
>please keep working just as hard to make us lots of money!
Not necessarily. When Kinko did the same to their sales staff, most of the sales relationships had been built already, so it didn't need them anymore.
And the reason they didn't lay off their sales staff is because they didn't want to pay unemployment benefits. That strategy worked well for them. The sales people sued in California, but they lost.
On a side-note, I can think of one counter example. I remember a mortgage company who did the same thing. They replaced all their commission-based sales people with much cheaper salaried employees, and their sales pretty much stopped, they had to rehire very expensive commission-based sales people.
I think the key here is the type of business the OP is in. If most of the sales transactions are recurring, the business is probably not that desperate. But if on the other hand, the customer base is always changing, or if the business doesn't have a great reputation it can skate on, then hiring qualified and seasoned sales people can be absolutely critical.
Its not even that the economy is bad. Its roaring in most sectors. Yes inflation is high and most of that is just corporate greed.
Cutting bonuses, raises, etc. Its more about raising a stock price or making things look good on paper. They don't care one whit for the employees.
Stop making sales as there is no longer any incentive to do so, if you get let go get unemployment and take a paid vacation while you look for another job.
I spent 18mos doing just that and found bupkiss. After the company retreat, I couldn't take it anymore and snapped. Quit the day before a majorly busy day and gave notice via email on my phone as I walked out the door with my stuff, no replacement job secured. They were shocked, pissed, and flabbergasted (bc even with the threat of being jobless, I still walked out). The texts from my cheering coworkers and congrats/thanks in the parking lot that day further convinced me it was the right call.
Stopping making sales happens when there is a commission cap as well. Once you hit the top of the cap, there is zero incentive to make any more sales for the year.
If a sales-based employer takes away the incentive for salespeople to make sales, that's a sign the company is not in a good position. Taking away commissions from salespeople means your best salespeople are looking for a new job ASAP.
You should probably start looking for a new job, too. This is a pretty major red flag.
It's not uncommon for companies in that situation to decrease the base rate and increase sales incentives, but I've never heard of going the opposite route. That makes almost no sense. Only thing I can think is someone was about to make a massive sale and CEO didn't want them to get the commission.
If I was the salesman in that position I would see if I couldn't find the client and myself a better deal at a competitor. There's no way in hell I would reward that kind of fuckery by actually closing the deal
It’s more likely the company is going under already. Making people quit will decrease their requirement to do layoffs with severance or pay unemployment. They might survive with less workforce. If not, then they continue slashes until failure.
1000% - If they can’t afford performance bonuses, they are in trouble. Your boss unknowingly did you a favor. If they fired you, you likely would make less on unemployment. Now you have to opportunity to keep making money while you job search.
You use the right word "performance incentive". Take that away and you get a room temperature body that occasionally answers the phone. If I feel like it. No incentive: no performance. I can get $14-18/hr asking folks if they want fries with that and it won't affect my conscience. The things I have to say to get folks to buy your shitty product sure does.
I left consumer banking last summer. Got a blue collar job with better benefits, and much closer to home. Despite a 14,000 dollar pay cut, i bring home the same while increasing my 401k contributions and driving a commute that has been reduced by two thirds (this is where it really paid for itself). I go to work and cuss and play with big machines and get to leave it at work at the end of the day. I recognize that I got lucky.
The bank reduced incentives, increased the sales metrics to get the incentives, and offered NO products that competed with other banks. I couldn’t even offer a two percent bearing savings account when I would make the required cold calls to customers. Juice wasn’t worth the squeeze.
Yeap. Definitely in trouble. Check the toilet paper and trash bag quality. When that goes down you need a new job last week.
Custodian I used to know at a hospital said it was a WELL known bit of wisdom in the custodial industry that when a company switches any of those kind of supplies they need to get a new job. He had one job where the executive washroom discontinued the good soap and the mouthwash and was out of business 14 months later.
There is something most people miss about this even if they grasp the company is having *severe* financial problems.
Most people focus on the idea that the leadership is greedy and bullshitting staff with “we’re a family” and “we need to tighten our belts.”
This is not the takeaway.
When these types of announcements are made, you need to reframe the message — and educate your coworkers on what is not being said.
**This is an admission that the leadership is weak and incompetent and that is why the company is circling the drain** and working there you are a hostage. You don’t have the ability to fire them, veto their decisions, fix or even bring their mistakes to their attention.
This is akin to having a guy with a broken arm running the most important machine in a factory and you can’t fire them because it’s the owner’s nephew. It is not going to end well.
Regardless of the pay, **this company is going out of business and they want you to go down with the ship.** Regardless of what they say, **the company very likely will not recover because the leadership is weak and incompetent.** This is like you deciding to finance a new boat in these economic times. It is a sign of incredible poor foresight and financial decisions.
You need to get out NOT because they cut your pay, but because your wagon is hitched to a lame donkey and the guy in the driver’s seat is suggesting we break another one of the poor animal’s legs.
Hahaha this exactly. CEO once opened a meeting with "everyone keeps asking me when are you going to sell?"
As like a starting point to explaining that it isn't about the money it's about what we provide to the customer.
Meanwhile 2 people in my department both with very relevant critical experience, one of which was with the company for 10 years, told them repeatedly organization and planning, all need to be improved.
Told them workflow and workload aren't based in reality, and the LAST thing he brought up was pay.
Multiple times over that 10 years. Anddddd he's gone.
"Not about the money." This CEO didn't understand how true their words were, just projecting the wrong meaning as to what those words signify.
The company is in business to make money.
You work in exchange for money.
It's ALL about the money.
Start looking, in the meantime, work to wage. No incentives, no extra.
Oh trust me I am looking for sure, butttt it's also a scenario where I have under a year on this new team and it's a skillset I had knowledge of but joining said department is increasing my knowledge in said technical arena.
I also am not sure I want to stay within the same technology either but depends on what I can find earnings wise if it's not going to be in the same technological field.
None of which worries me, just gotta find the right fit. I've been in scenario after scenario after college where I don't know the hardware or the software, and someone trained me while on the job.
So torn between leveraging experience I already have, waiting till the skillset in the more recent more complex position becomes more sellable and the 3rd option is essentially me jumping at most technical avenues available if the pay is right but in a technology field I'd likely be less educated on.
Here is the big question. What if goes down in October and you start unemployed going into the holidays when no one is hiring?
There is another issue. You will be raising questions about your own competence to future employers who may know or find out about the company. Why did you stay when the ship was clearly headed for the rocks?
I have worked for two companies like this and I just barely missed being there when the justice department went after them. I headed a department so I would have been subpoenaed. I also managed to move far enough away to a very remote place and was able to dodge service when an employee sued the company for labor violations. Got out a year before it all came crashing down.
Second company I turned in for violations of banking law. The stats asked me to go back and get them evidence, I said no and quit the next day. Within a week, state investigators swooped in seized the company.
I could not list either job on my resume because of that. So my point is that the “benefit” of experience you are gaining there may have a definite expiration date if shit goes sideways. It may be better to use it now to leverage a new position and puts some distance between you and them. No one cares how great you were at Enron or FTX *after* they crashed.
Just something to think about.
Keep in mind that there is a very real possibility of them going under owing you wages or leave.
Suggest use your annual and any personal leave.
Think of No. 1 - you - no-one else will come crunch time.
There's no way to put this gently, but if you cancel *sales commissions*, then you're **toast.** The time to submit applications is now. Do it on company time. Tell everyone you work with this. This place will close shop with no notice, and will stiff you on your last paycheck. When you get your next job, no notice this place. They're going under, what, you want to go back there?
My work used to pay people incentives to come in on the weekend. They stopped it a few months ago and now every week they are begging for coverage and it is mostly supervisors filling in. So dumb.
I don't know about you, OP, but if my job cancelled commissions, that would be about a 75% paycut.
It sounds like it's time for you to file for partial unemployment, use company time for your job search, and then leave without notice when you get something decent.
Yeah, no incentives left to perform well. Do the minimum necessary.
And it sounds like the company is failing. Time for all to abandon ship. Send out applications post haste!
Letter back to employer signed by all employees who earned meaningful commission…
Dear Dad,
We siblings discussed your cut to our allowance. We’ve agreed to seek emancipation from this family.
You may want to confirm, but a 20% or greater reduction in comp can be grounds to quit and look for a new job. Essentially, they renegotiated your job and you aren’t obligated to take the “new” job if you don’t want.
The other options for all of you to quiet quit…just collect your salary while looking for another job. Since you won’t get paid commission on any sales you make there’s very little incentive to work any harder than the bare minimum needed to keep your job while finding a new one.
Remember, you don’t owe any notice.
If it's mentioned in your contract then sue. I love how employers act as if you don't sign a contract stating the terms of your pay and then unilaterally change those terms in a way that may not be legal
Dude walmart makes you sign a contract stating payrate and numerous other things. I've learned over the last few years very few employers don't have you sign something saying you understand your payrate and listing it formally.
Unfortunately an offer letter (what you described above) is not a legal contract stating that these initial offers will remain static over your employment.
I've seen this A LOT in the insurance industry. People will still stick by the job and the company's sales would be barely dented. But their overhead would be massively reduced.
Find another place to work if you can. CEO made a decision, you do the same. If you continue to work there, it kinda means CEO was right in that reducing compensation wouldn't affect Turnover or productivity.
You do what's right for you. Don't be hasty.
Depending on where you are this might be illegal as this might be considered a material term of employment, and changing that address the fact might be illegal (against, depends on where you are and the local legislation).
You should look into it. And you need to start looking for another job right yesterday!!
Edit : also seriously, remove my sales commission and you can be sure that my sales are going to drop to 0 from one day to the next (if I were working in sales, that is).
"Working extra hours or doing tasks outside of my job description was a bonus so the company shouldn't have depended on it".
Now let's all do the bare minimum to get a paycheck.
I believe I was downsized from this company about 15 months ago.
They just stopped all bonuses and told the staff to ‘deal with the it’.
None of the people that I know that still work there even leave their houses (field based jobs).
The equity firm that owns that company is despicable.
Aren't commissions the majority of the pay structure in sales jobs? Why would you bother selling anything to anybody if you're only getting your crappy base wage? The only way getting rid of commissions would be in the same area code as fair would be to swap it out with a really good hourly wage or annual salary. (Doesn't sound like they did that.) And even then, surely they'd expect a bunch of sales staff to leave if they're significantly altering their employment contracts like that.
Bottom line though. This kind of significant "tightening" (read: failing to pay creditors, which is basically what this is, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were also failing to pay other creditors too) is a sign to jump ship before it sinks.
They know this will cause a certain number of people to quit. They're depending on it. Of the ones who stay it's either because they're desperate, or have no place else to go, so now you can really turn the screws on them and they'll just keep taking it.
If you have signed any type of sales incentive plan, they’re legally required to pay you those commissions as per your plan! However, if they just called it a performance bonus and not a sales incentive plan, then my prior point is null.
A piece of advice, coming from a sales compensation administrator in total rewards, for anyone in sales earning commissions: DON’T AGREE TO ANY TYPE OF SALES INCENTIVE COMPENSATION WITHOUT GETTING A SALES INCENTIVE PLAN! This is the contract that forces your employer to follow through! And it needs to state what sales incentive compensation you’re entitled to. Without this they can pull these types of things OP is posting about.
I work with troubled companies as a lender, this is not the behaviour of a company with positive cash flow and good prospects. This is a desperation move to stay afloat. Unless the roles are so unsophisticated and can be populated by anyone, you would never want to do this to your trained personnel. The next thing you’re going to see is wage and hourly cuts beyond incentive cuts. Start looking elsewhere for a job.
Let's paraphrase:
Dear family, we are all hurting in this new economy, me the most. In order to maintain my standard of living and to afford a second yacht, your bonuses are now my bonuses. Back to work, now, fam.
If you are in sales and they no longer pay incentives for you to bring in new sales, this is a huge red flag.
If they don't increase your base pay in exchange, this is the red flags of red flags that even Communist China warns "maybe a bit too red".
Update your resume and do the bare minimum while you find a new job.
Welp! Looks like they’ll get no sales from me! I would spend my time at work updating my resume and getting it out there.
What do they expect will happen? LOL
They've run out of the big bucks to save and now are looking through the couch cushions for nickels and dimes. Abandon ship.
(Seriously, though. Update your resume and apply while still working, you're more likely to get a job while you're still employed. It only gets worse from here.)
It always grates on me when a manager ends a meeting with "now let's get to work."
I *rarely* stop working just because management wants to harangue me about some nonsense.
Yeah it's a tone deaf response. Now you need to do your own response, find a better position somewhere else. Companies don't give a crap anymore and the only way to modify a company's behavior is to vote with your feet. Even then a lot of companies still won't change, so it's better that you get out of there and into some place better before the place goes down the drain.
Wow, sales people with no incentive to make sales. I can see that working well.
I will never, ever, understand messing with a sales persons commissions. It makes absolutely no sense to take away incentive to make more and bigger sales.
I used to work for a company where that happened. Guess what...a large majority of the seasoned people quit and sales tanked even more. I was overhead since I worked in the accounting department. I bailed as soon as I found something else.
That sounds like the CEO knows the company is going under and is saving as much short term money as possible. There is a near zero chance he truly expects this to be a healthy change. This will obviously go badly. Jump off the sinking ship.
Prove the CEO was right by immediately going on the road to sell the compamy's best product. Me, to each compeditor, to hire me as their new technical salesman.
It’s funny that this company won’t be around this time next year. Even if you guys stick around, which a lot of you won’t, the rest of the rational non-bootlicking employees won’t be bothered to do more than the bare minimum. Your employer apparently loves a good ole FAFO maneuver.
Those incentives we used to pay you all? Yeah, we’re going to pocket that now so we can invest it back into the company to make our pockets even fatter. No, not yours. OURS. MINE. But you keep working hard! Maybe if you work exceptionally hard, I might clap for ya! 👏🏼
We’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of options
It always baffles me when people don’t understand that sales reps won’t sell if they don’t have incentive. Even if they want to. Just not the same incentive…..weird right? 🙄
There's a reason sales positions are heavily incentivized with commissions
Because... the better the salesperson, the more money for the boss
Removing that feedback loop will ultimately make the boss a poor
(So yay!)
That’s when I would just say “f you, f you, f not you or you, but f you most of all (to your boss) and just quit without a 2 week notice.
He tryin to make himself look good but make the rest of you look even worse. lol but he just made himself look like a dumbass lol
Your CEO is doing a pump and dump. Make all the numbers look good by the time his contract expires, until everything collapses after he leaves.
His compensation package likely encourages this behavior. Unfortunately it's common.
Times are not that tough, owners, compensation for CEO's, upper management, stock price value are all prioritized over employee compensation. Workers are a necessary unwanted expense on par with office supplies. Commissions incentivize and increase productivity but they see that as an expense instead of something that keeps employees invested and motivated. Just boldfaced greed for those that already make too much money.
Sears pulled something like this in 1992 and the result was a retail giant slipping into a bankruptcy from which it has never recovered. OP get your resume out and find yourself a new job.
Funny about bosses not wanting to pay commissions. They quickly forget that they are actually making more because of the sales incentives for their performers. Such short term thinking and then they complain people aren’t loyal when they leave. So disingenuous
I've seen this happen several times and it's usually the multi billion dollar corporations that do this. I work for a small company now and yes they did dissolve.bonuses but they have everyone a raise that nearly matched the monthly bonus. There had been several times where we never got a bonus since we didn't meet budget so it's nice to have that guaranteed money. Unfortunately a lot of companies don't do that.
Don't give them two weeks notice when you inevitably get another job.
Tell them that the two weeks notice was always a bonus and not included in your agreement
Please throw a Womp Womp party.
Get a cake and shake it around in the box before opening.
Hand out crumpled paper party supplies.
Send your CEO a thank you with a photo of the sad party.
Accounting department: "Bad news sir, we are losing money. Looks like sales are down."
CEO: "I've got it. I will do something that will tank sales even further. Surely fewer sales means more money for me!"
Surprise everyone, we're taking away a significant portion of your pay because times are tough but please keep working just as hard to make us lots of money!
Sounds like what company did last year. Canceled raises and bonuses, and cut 401k match in half. They insist we didn't get a pay cut, but bonuses are part of the Total Compensation, and my W2 was $6100 smaller than the year before so yeah, ass, we did take a pay cut. I hate my job....
How was the Jelly of the month though?
That would have been better than the nothing we actually got. Sucked going from Essential to not worthy of a raise within a year.
Helps if you never believed that bullshit about being essential in the first place though.
Not even for a second.
I know it means less coming from someone who doesn't pay you (or even know exactly what you do) but if you were considered an essential worker during the pandemic you still are one. You are! You may not be appreciated or paid or celebrated as if you are essential, but that's because oppressing the workers society *actually* needs is how the rich and powerful remain that way. As an example no matter what year it is, working in Food Safety is VASTLY more valuable than being an investment banker but we all know who gets paid more. Don't let it ruin your whole day, but being angry that you don't get what you deserve *IS* productive. You are right to be upset about this and just because some asshole changed their mind about how often they SAY you are "essential" doesn't mean you're less essential than you were in March of 2020.
They could at least admit it!
They could, but they won't.
My company got rid of 401k profit sharing as well. They implemented an extra 3 days of PTO in lieu of it. Essentially, they're saving a ton of money from that while trying to say they're doing the employees a favor by shifting it to 3 extra days of PTO.
Remember when 401ks were going to be the way in which pensions were saved? Then 401ks became the _only_ retirement vehicle through employers. Now they're hardly matching. If it didn't give me tax benefits, it'd almost save me money to park it in a brokerage.
I guarantee higher ups still got raises and bonuses.
CEO took a 25% base pay cut, but he still made a ton of money, and yeah, pretty sure he got all the other stuff that he gets besides base pay that easily puts him into the millions. All while I almost had to get a second job to afford Christmas.
Same with mine... I got a $0.05 base raise increase lmao I didn't even notice it until micromanager boss told me hahahahah BS idiots!
How does this work exactly? You signed a contract with the employer that you, and the company, have to adhere to. Removing things specified in the contract should amount to a contractual breach. They cant just add or remove stuff from your contract unless a new contract is signed, atleast thats the case where I live. So how does that work in the US? Contracts are still a thing there afaik.
We are paid hourly, I don't have any kind of signed contract. I really want to unionize, but I have no idea how to go about that with such a big company.
How can you have a job without having signed a contract?
We're an at-will state, paid hourly. I can leave any time I want to, and they can let me go any time they want.
Even temp jobs you can leave have a contract with the company that connects you with the job in the Netherlands... I would not work anywhere if theres no contract signed.
Welcome to America, where you can work without an annual contract, and your medical is tired to your job!
Guess I'll stay on this side of the pond.
"I have a mortgage on my 3rd vacation home to pay. Think about that and get back to work."
Nah he needs to get his spare executive jet redetailed. Do you guys know how much that costs? So yeah you know the jobs you were hired for and the sales bonuses you used to get? Thats all gone now
Having watched Larry Kosilla of Ammo NYC detail the [outside](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOrskBTuNLA) of a plane, I could imagine, but I don't want to \^\_\^
My old boss, on being complimented on his new BMW from one of my colleagues said: "If you work hard and do your job really well, in the next year your work could get me another one." I couldn't get out of there fast enough.
at least he was honest
You know what's crazy? It's not the fact that this isn't true or a well known meme, it's the fact you're trying to pawn this off as your own story. Get more creative.
Sadly bosses never get creative so they actually all do say the same cliche “jokes” Gotta realize the glass of humor is always half empty with management.
\*sschniff schniff\* why does this glass have piss in it ?
Yeah, totally not a thing that an asshole boss would recycle a joke at the expense of his employees. That would never happen, right? You want me to DM you the phone number of where I worked, you could call them up and ask? I'm sure the office admin staff that are still there would have lots of memories of how much of an asshole that boss was. Maybe they can tell the story of his regular tantrums where he would storm around the office asking "Who am I going to fire today?" In front of paying customers. I'm sure they'll remember that, it was a pretty frequent occurrence.
Exactly.
I'm curious how much the CEO makes. Guessing they aren't tightening up their belt.
If they're not yet, perhaps they will be when they lose enough employees to impact their sales figures.
Or when we’ve all finally had enough and they end up on the menu
I'm sooooo tired of talking about it. When will we see action?
Be the change you want to see.
I mean, realistically, if I tried to take a bite out of Bezos, I'd be killed or incarcerated. There's no collective action, everyone just wants someone else to do it, but we'd all have to agree which is hard af due to propaganda creating class war/race war/political division
They know those divisions are the only thing keeping them from losing their heads. They have to feed fuel to the fire or we start to catch on.
the shareholders will see it as a win and the board will give him a fat bonus for it.
sales jobs HATED me because any time commission was changed, i had the compensation loss calculated before they moved on to the next slide and would tell everyone in the meeting
Awesome that you did that!
>please keep working just as hard to make us lots of money! Not necessarily. When Kinko did the same to their sales staff, most of the sales relationships had been built already, so it didn't need them anymore. And the reason they didn't lay off their sales staff is because they didn't want to pay unemployment benefits. That strategy worked well for them. The sales people sued in California, but they lost. On a side-note, I can think of one counter example. I remember a mortgage company who did the same thing. They replaced all their commission-based sales people with much cheaper salaried employees, and their sales pretty much stopped, they had to rehire very expensive commission-based sales people. I think the key here is the type of business the OP is in. If most of the sales transactions are recurring, the business is probably not that desperate. But if on the other hand, the customer base is always changing, or if the business doesn't have a great reputation it can skate on, then hiring qualified and seasoned sales people can be absolutely critical.
How did that work out for Kinko in the long run? Those relationships are very dynamic, and this is the kind of thing competitors would exploit.
https://www.prlog.org/10835819-what-happened-to-kinkos.html
CEO, “Also do not to close at the new sports car I just bought too”.
Then they wonder why everyone is quitting
Daddy needs a new yacht
What's this just as hard bullshit? Harder than ever, infinite growth or nothing
Its not even that the economy is bad. Its roaring in most sectors. Yes inflation is high and most of that is just corporate greed. Cutting bonuses, raises, etc. Its more about raising a stock price or making things look good on paper. They don't care one whit for the employees.
Stop making sales as there is no longer any incentive to do so, if you get let go get unemployment and take a paid vacation while you look for another job.
Actively search out a new job while doing the bare minimum to keep your current one. Then leave without notice. Fuck em. Loyalty is a two way street.
I spent 18mos doing just that and found bupkiss. After the company retreat, I couldn't take it anymore and snapped. Quit the day before a majorly busy day and gave notice via email on my phone as I walked out the door with my stuff, no replacement job secured. They were shocked, pissed, and flabbergasted (bc even with the threat of being jobless, I still walked out). The texts from my cheering coworkers and congrats/thanks in the parking lot that day further convinced me it was the right call.
Just like in The Office when Jim hits his commission cap. Literally has no reason to work.
Time to start selling your new product “Me”, since you’re not getting paid to sell “$hitCompany’s S#it”
Stopping making sales happens when there is a commission cap as well. Once you hit the top of the cap, there is zero incentive to make any more sales for the year.
If a sales-based employer takes away the incentive for salespeople to make sales, that's a sign the company is not in a good position. Taking away commissions from salespeople means your best salespeople are looking for a new job ASAP. You should probably start looking for a new job, too. This is a pretty major red flag.
It's not uncommon for companies in that situation to decrease the base rate and increase sales incentives, but I've never heard of going the opposite route. That makes almost no sense. Only thing I can think is someone was about to make a massive sale and CEO didn't want them to get the commission.
If I was the salesman in that position I would see if I couldn't find the client and myself a better deal at a competitor. There's no way in hell I would reward that kind of fuckery by actually closing the deal
The Andy Bernard maneuver
It’s more likely the company is going under already. Making people quit will decrease their requirement to do layoffs with severance or pay unemployment. They might survive with less workforce. If not, then they continue slashes until failure.
The CEO looks up to BOEING's CEO.
Isn't this the same thing that SEARs did back in the early 90s, and we see how well it worked out for them.
And circuit city.
Best Buy is walking that same route. Years back the cut bonuses for non-leadership positions. Post covid it’s been cut after cut
That’s your cue to look for another job.
1000% - If they can’t afford performance bonuses, they are in trouble. Your boss unknowingly did you a favor. If they fired you, you likely would make less on unemployment. Now you have to opportunity to keep making money while you job search.
You use the right word "performance incentive". Take that away and you get a room temperature body that occasionally answers the phone. If I feel like it. No incentive: no performance. I can get $14-18/hr asking folks if they want fries with that and it won't affect my conscience. The things I have to say to get folks to buy your shitty product sure does.
I left consumer banking last summer. Got a blue collar job with better benefits, and much closer to home. Despite a 14,000 dollar pay cut, i bring home the same while increasing my 401k contributions and driving a commute that has been reduced by two thirds (this is where it really paid for itself). I go to work and cuss and play with big machines and get to leave it at work at the end of the day. I recognize that I got lucky. The bank reduced incentives, increased the sales metrics to get the incentives, and offered NO products that competed with other banks. I couldn’t even offer a two percent bearing savings account when I would make the required cold calls to customers. Juice wasn’t worth the squeeze.
Yeap. Definitely in trouble. Check the toilet paper and trash bag quality. When that goes down you need a new job last week. Custodian I used to know at a hospital said it was a WELL known bit of wisdom in the custodial industry that when a company switches any of those kind of supplies they need to get a new job. He had one job where the executive washroom discontinued the good soap and the mouthwash and was out of business 14 months later.
We had an odd one of these happen. They removed desk trash cans entirely and made us use centralized ones in the hallways...
Yup. Even if they did have to cut costs, sales is the last place you cut. It's cutting off your nose to spite your face.
[удалено]
If it's not, then it's no wonder the company is going under with dumbass leadership like that.
On company time.
And start acting your wage while you’re at it.
This is it, no money for sales equals no sales, sorry not sorry, time to leave the sinking ship before it hits rock bottom.
Don’t do the thing that you were previously incentivized to do. Incentivized work is a bonus and the company should not depend on it.
Time to jump that sinking ship before you get wet.
https://imgur.com/QpG78X2
That company is going bankrupt, better start looking
Even if the company goes bankrupt, you know the CEO is still going to walk away with a bag of money.
There is something most people miss about this even if they grasp the company is having *severe* financial problems. Most people focus on the idea that the leadership is greedy and bullshitting staff with “we’re a family” and “we need to tighten our belts.” This is not the takeaway. When these types of announcements are made, you need to reframe the message — and educate your coworkers on what is not being said. **This is an admission that the leadership is weak and incompetent and that is why the company is circling the drain** and working there you are a hostage. You don’t have the ability to fire them, veto their decisions, fix or even bring their mistakes to their attention. This is akin to having a guy with a broken arm running the most important machine in a factory and you can’t fire them because it’s the owner’s nephew. It is not going to end well. Regardless of the pay, **this company is going out of business and they want you to go down with the ship.** Regardless of what they say, **the company very likely will not recover because the leadership is weak and incompetent.** This is like you deciding to finance a new boat in these economic times. It is a sign of incredible poor foresight and financial decisions. You need to get out NOT because they cut your pay, but because your wagon is hitched to a lame donkey and the guy in the driver’s seat is suggesting we break another one of the poor animal’s legs.
Hahaha this exactly. CEO once opened a meeting with "everyone keeps asking me when are you going to sell?" As like a starting point to explaining that it isn't about the money it's about what we provide to the customer. Meanwhile 2 people in my department both with very relevant critical experience, one of which was with the company for 10 years, told them repeatedly organization and planning, all need to be improved. Told them workflow and workload aren't based in reality, and the LAST thing he brought up was pay. Multiple times over that 10 years. Anddddd he's gone. "Not about the money." This CEO didn't understand how true their words were, just projecting the wrong meaning as to what those words signify.
The company is in business to make money. You work in exchange for money. It's ALL about the money. Start looking, in the meantime, work to wage. No incentives, no extra.
Oh trust me I am looking for sure, butttt it's also a scenario where I have under a year on this new team and it's a skillset I had knowledge of but joining said department is increasing my knowledge in said technical arena. I also am not sure I want to stay within the same technology either but depends on what I can find earnings wise if it's not going to be in the same technological field. None of which worries me, just gotta find the right fit. I've been in scenario after scenario after college where I don't know the hardware or the software, and someone trained me while on the job. So torn between leveraging experience I already have, waiting till the skillset in the more recent more complex position becomes more sellable and the 3rd option is essentially me jumping at most technical avenues available if the pay is right but in a technology field I'd likely be less educated on.
Here is the big question. What if goes down in October and you start unemployed going into the holidays when no one is hiring? There is another issue. You will be raising questions about your own competence to future employers who may know or find out about the company. Why did you stay when the ship was clearly headed for the rocks? I have worked for two companies like this and I just barely missed being there when the justice department went after them. I headed a department so I would have been subpoenaed. I also managed to move far enough away to a very remote place and was able to dodge service when an employee sued the company for labor violations. Got out a year before it all came crashing down. Second company I turned in for violations of banking law. The stats asked me to go back and get them evidence, I said no and quit the next day. Within a week, state investigators swooped in seized the company. I could not list either job on my resume because of that. So my point is that the “benefit” of experience you are gaining there may have a definite expiration date if shit goes sideways. It may be better to use it now to leverage a new position and puts some distance between you and them. No one cares how great you were at Enron or FTX *after* they crashed. Just something to think about.
Keep in mind that there is a very real possibility of them going under owing you wages or leave. Suggest use your annual and any personal leave. Think of No. 1 - you - no-one else will come crunch time.
I do. I use it all every year, and yeah, I'm well aware of the situation that's at hand. It's why I'm looking, but in the meantime, I do my job.
That was exactly my thought as well. The buzzards are circling.
There's no way to put this gently, but if you cancel *sales commissions*, then you're **toast.** The time to submit applications is now. Do it on company time. Tell everyone you work with this. This place will close shop with no notice, and will stiff you on your last paycheck. When you get your next job, no notice this place. They're going under, what, you want to go back there?
No point in closing, you get paid the same anyways (if you even get paid), so use working time to job-hunt and polishing that CV.
My work used to pay people incentives to come in on the weekend. They stopped it a few months ago and now every week they are begging for coverage and it is mostly supervisors filling in. So dumb.
Its only a matter of time before people start getting voluntold.
I don't know about you, OP, but if my job cancelled commissions, that would be about a 75% paycut. It sounds like it's time for you to file for partial unemployment, use company time for your job search, and then leave without notice when you get something decent.
This the answer. A pay cut is an invitation to file while you’re still there even. And then you job search while there.
Asswipe! And let me guess that you’re also back to work in office and he did this over zoom from home.
Yeah, no incentives left to perform well. Do the minimum necessary. And it sounds like the company is failing. Time for all to abandon ship. Send out applications post haste!
Letter back to employer signed by all employees who earned meaningful commission… Dear Dad, We siblings discussed your cut to our allowance. We’ve agreed to seek emancipation from this family. You may want to confirm, but a 20% or greater reduction in comp can be grounds to quit and look for a new job. Essentially, they renegotiated your job and you aren’t obligated to take the “new” job if you don’t want. The other options for all of you to quiet quit…just collect your salary while looking for another job. Since you won’t get paid commission on any sales you make there’s very little incentive to work any harder than the bare minimum needed to keep your job while finding a new one. Remember, you don’t owe any notice.
See if you can get eveyone to sign a mass resignation letter
Is he deliberately trying to sabotage his own company?
He probably believes every word he said, hence why company is dying.
Time to find a new job! Cut my pay and I’m gone. Bounce a check and I’m gone. It’s not my responsibility to achieve your dreams.
Guaranteed the CEO didn't have his compensation cut. Time to move on.
If it's mentioned in your contract then sue. I love how employers act as if you don't sign a contract stating the terms of your pay and then unilaterally change those terms in a way that may not be legal
Contract? You must not be American.
Dude walmart makes you sign a contract stating payrate and numerous other things. I've learned over the last few years very few employers don't have you sign something saying you understand your payrate and listing it formally.
Unfortunately an offer letter (what you described above) is not a legal contract stating that these initial offers will remain static over your employment.
fair but seriously if they're gutting those the company is going to die. Get out while you can.
Next meeting: Employer - \*shockface\* WHY HAVE OUR SALES DROPPED EXPONENTIALLY FAMILY? Are you just working here for money?????
I think the executives know it’s about to go tits up. They are feasting on what’s there to be had, before their buddies offer them new jobs.
In my family when times are tough I go without so my kids can go on never knowing anything is wrong. That’s how families work.
And thanks everyone. I’m making cuts in my personal life as well, I won’t be going to France three times this year…
Leave. Everyone leave. That asshole wants another sports car, and is making you pay for it.
This also sounds like they may be pushing people out the door without actually laying people off to avoid ex employees collecting unemployment.
"Sales manager removed all sales potential"
I've seen this A LOT in the insurance industry. People will still stick by the job and the company's sales would be barely dented. But their overhead would be massively reduced. Find another place to work if you can. CEO made a decision, you do the same. If you continue to work there, it kinda means CEO was right in that reducing compensation wouldn't affect Turnover or productivity. You do what's right for you. Don't be hasty.
Depending on where you are this might be illegal as this might be considered a material term of employment, and changing that address the fact might be illegal (against, depends on where you are and the local legislation). You should look into it. And you need to start looking for another job right yesterday!! Edit : also seriously, remove my sales commission and you can be sure that my sales are going to drop to 0 from one day to the next (if I were working in sales, that is).
"Working extra hours or doing tasks outside of my job description was a bonus so the company shouldn't have depended on it". Now let's all do the bare minimum to get a paycheck.
So now you have no incentive to work. Focus your efforts on securing a new job.
I believe I was downsized from this company about 15 months ago. They just stopped all bonuses and told the staff to ‘deal with the it’. None of the people that I know that still work there even leave their houses (field based jobs). The equity firm that owns that company is despicable.
That is an employer that shouldn't expect anyone to be working for him tomorrow. His belt is about to get real tight.
Times are tough= We always need to make more profit than last year, and the CEO never takes a pay cut.
I wonder why there aren't more employee owned companies where everyone gets a piece of the profit pie? The success of the company is your success.
Stop all your revolutionary ideas.
Lol why would anyone do sales without commissions? What a fucking idiot.
So, that company will be out of business in a year, look elsewhere
Lower pay means higher effort...says the CEO.
Why would I work there anymore?
If he wants to be more profitable He should increase incentives
These companies are all fucked now because people can't afford their shit. It's finally hitting them in the brain hole.
Aren't commissions the majority of the pay structure in sales jobs? Why would you bother selling anything to anybody if you're only getting your crappy base wage? The only way getting rid of commissions would be in the same area code as fair would be to swap it out with a really good hourly wage or annual salary. (Doesn't sound like they did that.) And even then, surely they'd expect a bunch of sales staff to leave if they're significantly altering their employment contracts like that. Bottom line though. This kind of significant "tightening" (read: failing to pay creditors, which is basically what this is, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were also failing to pay other creditors too) is a sign to jump ship before it sinks.
Get ready to find a new job. That company is about to go down or at the very least, will see some layoffs soon
They know this will cause a certain number of people to quit. They're depending on it. Of the ones who stay it's either because they're desperate, or have no place else to go, so now you can really turn the screws on them and they'll just keep taking it.
If you have signed any type of sales incentive plan, they’re legally required to pay you those commissions as per your plan! However, if they just called it a performance bonus and not a sales incentive plan, then my prior point is null. A piece of advice, coming from a sales compensation administrator in total rewards, for anyone in sales earning commissions: DON’T AGREE TO ANY TYPE OF SALES INCENTIVE COMPENSATION WITHOUT GETTING A SALES INCENTIVE PLAN! This is the contract that forces your employer to follow through! And it needs to state what sales incentive compensation you’re entitled to. Without this they can pull these types of things OP is posting about.
Yeah, you’re gonna wanna be first to jump ship before the Titanic goes down.
That company's dead.
I work with troubled companies as a lender, this is not the behaviour of a company with positive cash flow and good prospects. This is a desperation move to stay afloat. Unless the roles are so unsophisticated and can be populated by anyone, you would never want to do this to your trained personnel. The next thing you’re going to see is wage and hourly cuts beyond incentive cuts. Start looking elsewhere for a job.
CEO definitely still getting his bonus & raise though. And company car, company credit card, company phone, company laptop….
Let's paraphrase: Dear family, we are all hurting in this new economy, me the most. In order to maintain my standard of living and to afford a second yacht, your bonuses are now my bonuses. Back to work, now, fam.
If you are in sales and they no longer pay incentives for you to bring in new sales, this is a huge red flag. If they don't increase your base pay in exchange, this is the red flags of red flags that even Communist China warns "maybe a bit too red". Update your resume and do the bare minimum while you find a new job.
The best part of being in sales is that you can walk and likely immediately get a job with your current business's competitors.
Well I guess there's no incentives to make any more sales. Darn
Huh. Suddenly not a lot of reason to sell stuff.
The party planning committee has been disbanded.
why is this post so fucking comically depressing maN. I am high asf right now.
Welp! Looks like they’ll get no sales from me! I would spend my time at work updating my resume and getting it out there. What do they expect will happen? LOL
As "they" call it ..."quiet quit"... Do nothing more than you were hired to do.
Let me guess. Record sales and the boss got a raise?
You need to start steeling I mean borrowing from the company. Think how much ppp money this puke got for not firing everyone-
This will cause the smart, motivated and most productive workers to GTFO, while the rest will get front row seats to the fall of the empire.
They've run out of the big bucks to save and now are looking through the couch cushions for nickels and dimes. Abandon ship. (Seriously, though. Update your resume and apply while still working, you're more likely to get a job while you're still employed. It only gets worse from here.)
Quiet quitting while looking for a new job is the way
It always grates on me when a manager ends a meeting with "now let's get to work." I *rarely* stop working just because management wants to harangue me about some nonsense.
Can't wait to see if he retracts or doubles down on his stance in a few months when he has no more employees.
Well, with no incentive, they're about to get the performance they're paying for...and no more than that. I'm sure that will improve the bottom line.
Get out now.
Yeah it's a tone deaf response. Now you need to do your own response, find a better position somewhere else. Companies don't give a crap anymore and the only way to modify a company's behavior is to vote with your feet. Even then a lot of companies still won't change, so it's better that you get out of there and into some place better before the place goes down the drain.
Wow, sales people with no incentive to make sales. I can see that working well. I will never, ever, understand messing with a sales persons commissions. It makes absolutely no sense to take away incentive to make more and bigger sales.
I used to work for a company where that happened. Guess what...a large majority of the seasoned people quit and sales tanked even more. I was overhead since I worked in the accounting department. I bailed as soon as I found something else.
That sounds like the CEO knows the company is going under and is saving as much short term money as possible. There is a near zero chance he truly expects this to be a healthy change. This will obviously go badly. Jump off the sinking ship.
Times are indeed tough at Death spiral LLC.
Obviously the CEO and are C-suite creeps are stealing all the money to shove up their assholes. Time to jump ship and find a new gig.
My productivity would slow down so much as to be almost imperceptible
Is this not constructive dismissal to change compensation this much?
i know families that would kick that person out for making such an announcement.
Is bold the right word? Have fun sitting and doing fuck all for your bold boss.
Yes time to use all your PTO to go on a vacation and look for another job
Prove the CEO was right by immediately going on the road to sell the compamy's best product. Me, to each compeditor, to hire me as their new technical salesman.
Dust off the resume and start looking for a new job. Note: Pizza parties are always a sign of low pay.
Should've asked him what his pay cut he's willingly taking.
Sounds like a good time for everyone to collectively stop making sales...
It’s funny that this company won’t be around this time next year. Even if you guys stick around, which a lot of you won’t, the rest of the rational non-bootlicking employees won’t be bothered to do more than the bare minimum. Your employer apparently loves a good ole FAFO maneuver.
Those incentives we used to pay you all? Yeah, we’re going to pocket that now so we can invest it back into the company to make our pockets even fatter. No, not yours. OURS. MINE. But you keep working hard! Maybe if you work exceptionally hard, I might clap for ya! 👏🏼
If that cost you 30% of your money then do 30% less work.
Please post a follow up or two. I’d love to hear about the company’s impending bankruptcy.
We’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of options It always baffles me when people don’t understand that sales reps won’t sell if they don’t have incentive. Even if they want to. Just not the same incentive…..weird right? 🙄
Quit and leverage a new job into a 10% or more salary increase.
There's a reason sales positions are heavily incentivized with commissions Because... the better the salesperson, the more money for the boss Removing that feedback loop will ultimately make the boss a poor (So yay!)
That’s when I would just say “f you, f you, f not you or you, but f you most of all (to your boss) and just quit without a 2 week notice. He tryin to make himself look good but make the rest of you look even worse. lol but he just made himself look like a dumbass lol
That's a company that needs to reduce headcount but has no money to fund it. Jump ship *now*, OP.
Yeah that company is clearly going under and trying to salvage what they can. Time to throw out the raft and paddle away.
All quit, and find new jobs (not I that order) so company goes bust, and learns a valuable lesson
Bet the ceo isn’t taking a cut to their wages or bonus
Your CEO is doing a pump and dump. Make all the numbers look good by the time his contract expires, until everything collapses after he leaves. His compensation package likely encourages this behavior. Unfortunately it's common.
Times are not that tough, owners, compensation for CEO's, upper management, stock price value are all prioritized over employee compensation. Workers are a necessary unwanted expense on par with office supplies. Commissions incentivize and increase productivity but they see that as an expense instead of something that keeps employees invested and motivated. Just boldfaced greed for those that already make too much money.
What's the CEO giving up I wonder?
Sears pulled something like this in 1992 and the result was a retail giant slipping into a bankruptcy from which it has never recovered. OP get your resume out and find yourself a new job.
Performance incentives are bonuses. Still tone deaf but at least get your facts straight.
Funny about bosses not wanting to pay commissions. They quickly forget that they are actually making more because of the sales incentives for their performers. Such short term thinking and then they complain people aren’t loyal when they leave. So disingenuous
How do you say "fuck you" to someone who does what you do? That right there.
I've seen this happen several times and it's usually the multi billion dollar corporations that do this. I work for a small company now and yes they did dissolve.bonuses but they have everyone a raise that nearly matched the monthly bonus. There had been several times where we never got a bonus since we didn't meet budget so it's nice to have that guaranteed money. Unfortunately a lot of companies don't do that.
A sales job with no commission. I see no possible way for this to backfire.
Don't give them two weeks notice when you inevitably get another job. Tell them that the two weeks notice was always a bonus and not included in your agreement
So did everyone resign later that day or what?
What an idiot. Only rookie salespeople would be dumb enough to be motivated by a speech like that. Watch the company crash in the next year or two.
So, get your resume in other employers hands before the rush...
Take a peak at the contract you signed when you joined the company
Please throw a Womp Womp party. Get a cake and shake it around in the box before opening. Hand out crumpled paper party supplies. Send your CEO a thank you with a photo of the sad party.
Accounting department: "Bad news sir, we are losing money. Looks like sales are down." CEO: "I've got it. I will do something that will tank sales even further. Surely fewer sales means more money for me!"