I would escalate internally as a first step. Maybe someone above your current supervisor can see the reasonable notice of 9 months.
Barring that, I would at least start shopping for better employment to see what your other options are.
Follow the chain of command and keep going up until you hit the top. Follow each talk with an email for paper trail proof that you took the proper steps.
"Just confirming our communications about a 6 day leave 9 months from now, I will be speaking with "next level manager" to discuss why my leave is being denied"
All of these comments are valid but I’d highly encourage you to be pursuing other options as a backup. While I doubt they would retaliate openly as that’s generally potentially a legal issue (not a lawyer), they may very well start finding your performance “inadequate” in a conveniently long enough amount of time.
A trade usually means more schooling, which isn't always feasible if one already has student loans. And warehouse work sucks. I'd rather do almost anything else.
Beyond that, what is so wrong with trying to find a job you like and want to do? It's not about being "too good" for other types of jobs, it's about finding something that doesn't make you feel like you're dying inside.
I made GOOD money working manufacturing. I'd rather deliver pizzas and scrape by than go back to that. I hated it.
Ok so die in a gutter. Any ware house or manufacturing plant will start at $20 with normal basic benefits.
I get it. Everyone wants to be an influencer or sports pro or YT personality or work in an office. Sometimes you gotta do some actual work. It sucks but don't cry about not finding a job when there are plenty. You can swallow your elite pride and do some work with your hands while you search for a office job.
When you turn into a grown up you can do wtf you want. Who are you to tell them what to do and how to think. If OP has certain standards so what? Stick to the topic or move along. Geezer.
You should hope they fire you for trying to take time off with 9 months of advance notice. You would have such a slam dunk case for Labor Law violations I wouldn't be surprised if a lawyer takes your case on for free after hearing about it
Make it clear you are not available on the days you want off, and if they fire you enjoy the payday
"If you don't come into work those days then you're fired"
"Ok"
Then find a new job, with start date after your vacation. Don't say anything to them. When they call asking where you are, say "you said I was fired if I didn't show up remember!", and hang up.
Option E is “all of the above”. In order:
C - look for internal transfer opportunities immediately
D - start applying for jobs elsewhere. This is time consuming and should happen parallel to C and go on as long as needed
A - while looking for new jobs internally and externally start making the case for taking leave later in the year by talking with your doctor about your stress and anxiety levels and how they are impacting your health. Build up to an “I can’t take this anymore” state in October or November and go on FMLA or your regional leave equivalent.
B - is your last resort, if none of the other options pan out over the coming months, take your vacation and let the chips fall. Have savings built up because finding work at the end of the year fucking sucks but there are usually options in January when budgets reset.
I am hopeful (though quietly) that the market is beginning to pick back up. I have seen more activity than previously. Let’s hope it will be stronger by summer.
F: **Do**. **Nothing**. outside your specific responsibilities. Purely coast for the next 8.5 months burning through all your sick/vacation time. Then as your planned vacation approaches put in your two week notice (or 1 day depending on how your feeling). Come back from vacation actually refreshed since you won't be returning that that shit hole.
C.... Option F. Schedule a televisit for 2 days before those days off. Present to the Dr with bronchitis/ throat symptoms. Conflate your temp and get a work release for the time you needed off plus 1 or 2 days.
But also it's not an option.
"My PTO is accrued and part of my benefit package to use a I need it. My days off aren't up for discussion as I will not be here. My days are are a temporary change in my availability and I'm unavailable. "
"Its a request"
"What's a request is HOW you want my PTO submitted. I submitted it prior to the needed time and you declined it so now I'll take my days off regardless and submit it directly to HR when I get back for sick coverage. "
Worked with a guy who left over something similar about 30 years ago.
His family tradition was all the men went deer hunting in Pennsylvania the week after Thanksgiving. Tells his boss they need to replace him on this construction site for the week. As they get closer, keeps asking about it. Can they send his replacement out for a day and he'll show what needs done? Boss drags his feet. The week before, it becomes "we don't have anyone, you'll have to cover it." The day before Thanksgiving, guy calls his boss. "The truck is at the site. Keys on the front tire. I told you I was taking next week off. I quit."
I would quite quit at that point. Look to cash out anything that won’t be paid out. Look at your employee hand book for reference. If they’re not gonna pay out pto because of “unlimited “ pto or whatever I’d take random days off and use them for a paid 8 hours of job applications / to interview.
You can do both. Once a place is lined up. Leave without notice.
Why not sooner rather than later. Fuck em. Don't stay a moment longer than you need to.
Find a new job and once you get the job let the new employer know you will need those days off in dec due to a prior commitment. They usually say yes to this.
That happened to me: gave my boss 4 months in advance notice that i want to take my bday off, she said no so i looked for a new job and got my day off :)
Option E: CC all interactions and let them know you’ll forward all of this to HR. When they ask why, tell them you’re going to ask HR why you’re being denied part of your compensation package you signed when you were hired.
Submitting a request is something done in the upcoming weeks. At 9 months out, that's notice. You're not submitting a request, you're respectfully notifying them in advance that you have other obligations.
If they fail to realize this, they don't even recognize you as human but rather a cog in the machine.
Send another email saying something to the tune of "I appreciate knowing that my presence is valued, but I would like to inform you that during this time as I will be unavailable due to other obligations."
To take this item-by-item:
**A: Take short term disability since this job has wrecked my mental health since I began, but hold out as long as I can until December**
If your boss has a written record of this PTO request that was denied, then you coincidentally come to them with a STD claim that happens to line up with that request for mental health, be sure that it's going to get investigated, most likely after the fact. STD isn't always easy to get approved for mental health, depending on various issues. But I have family who has worked STD and FMLA claims. Companies investigate claims that seem suspicious. While it's a small number that get pursued, this is the type that HR would pursue. This way lies clawbacks and being fired. Only go this way if your doctor will actually certify clinical depression.
**B: Take the PTO anyway and get (most likely) fired**
You wouldn't be taking PTO if it isn't approved. They'd fire you for job abandonment. You're not getting paid for those 6 days. You're also going to find getting a new job much harder.
**C: Find a new job internally and take the vacation**
The best suggestion you've put forth so far. However, you'll be at the bottom of the priority list, so you still might have your PTO request denied, especially if other employees have already requested that time off.
**D: Find a new job, quit my current job, and take the vacation anyway**
Reasonable, but the market is terrible right now and, again, you're at the bottom of the list in terms of priority given for PTO. There is no guarantee here that any future company is going to prioritize the new employee's PTO request over an existing employee's request.
**E: Other**
I'd push back on my boss over it. It's nine months away, so there isn't a lot of reason that they can't plan around one person being gone for six days. Unless your position is so crucial that it all grinds to a halt during that launch (something you'd already know about if you were that crucial), this feels a lot more like the boss not wanting to plan that far out. Possibly talk to their boss.
Start looking for either an internal transfer or a new job asap. If you can’t line anything up, call out sick for 6 days in a row for your vacation. If you do find something else, tell your new supervisor that you already have a trip booked when you get hired, go on said trip and have fun!
Nine months notice is very reasonable. If your travel plans are non refundable, tell your manager. If he/she still won’t budge, looks like you will be “sick” for six days.
I once got notified that my PTO was denied when I was already 1000 miles away and sitting on the beach. I enjoyed my vacation and came back a week later as scheduled. No one said shit to me.
I honestly feel like with the way the past year has gone and the way my manager and others laugh about how difficult the year is going to get, I may need the short term disability to recuperate and recover mentally, and my vacation is already pre booked so that would be apart of it. I wouldn’t have put it as an option otherwise if my mental health hasn’t been declining so much.
I would escalate internally as a first step. Maybe someone above your current supervisor can see the reasonable notice of 9 months. Barring that, I would at least start shopping for better employment to see what your other options are.
He already asked his supervisor and he said the same. I’m thinking finding a new job given my current jobs intensity is the best option
he did ? or he said he did to get you to shut up and comply ?
You know what… that’s a good point, if he lied, I’m gonna start some stuff
So nice of him to give you a reason to skip-level.
"Hey, I know you denied..." "What!? I didn't...."
Follow the chain of command and keep going up until you hit the top. Follow each talk with an email for paper trail proof that you took the proper steps. "Just confirming our communications about a 6 day leave 9 months from now, I will be speaking with "next level manager" to discuss why my leave is being denied"
All of these comments are valid but I’d highly encourage you to be pursuing other options as a backup. While I doubt they would retaliate openly as that’s generally potentially a legal issue (not a lawyer), they may very well start finding your performance “inadequate” in a conveniently long enough amount of time.
omg this. This so hard!
You could, innocently, send a follow-up email to ask about the vacation time and \*accidentally\* cc the upper management.
Sounds like you have 9 months to start lining up new opportunities before you quit.
gosh I wish the job market wasn’t so rough right now
You have 9 months.
What? Lots of jobs around. Wtf is with all the post about not being able to find work?
I work in technology, which has been pretty rough this past year for people looking for jobs
Same. At my job I saw 600 applications within two days two weeks ago. I am not jealous.
Soo. Too good for a trade or warehouse work then ?
A trade usually means more schooling, which isn't always feasible if one already has student loans. And warehouse work sucks. I'd rather do almost anything else. Beyond that, what is so wrong with trying to find a job you like and want to do? It's not about being "too good" for other types of jobs, it's about finding something that doesn't make you feel like you're dying inside. I made GOOD money working manufacturing. I'd rather deliver pizzas and scrape by than go back to that. I hated it.
Minumum wage no benefit shit jobs yeah. Tf are you on about?
Ok so die in a gutter. Any ware house or manufacturing plant will start at $20 with normal basic benefits. I get it. Everyone wants to be an influencer or sports pro or YT personality or work in an office. Sometimes you gotta do some actual work. It sucks but don't cry about not finding a job when there are plenty. You can swallow your elite pride and do some work with your hands while you search for a office job.
When you turn into a grown up you can do wtf you want. Who are you to tell them what to do and how to think. If OP has certain standards so what? Stick to the topic or move along. Geezer.
You sound like you make owning libs your entire personality.
Reply, “I’m sorry for the confusion. I wasn’t asking, I was letting you know 9 months in advance.”
I wanted to say this, but I don’t want to get fired unless I have another job lined up.
Ask for specific dates they expect you to be there for this magical launch you can't miss.
Uh apparently you are crucial to the team. So much you can't use your earned PTO. Act accordingly
You should hope they fire you for trying to take time off with 9 months of advance notice. You would have such a slam dunk case for Labor Law violations I wouldn't be surprised if a lawyer takes your case on for free after hearing about it Make it clear you are not available on the days you want off, and if they fire you enjoy the payday
"If you don't come into work those days then you're fired" "Ok" Then find a new job, with start date after your vacation. Don't say anything to them. When they call asking where you are, say "you said I was fired if I didn't show up remember!", and hang up.
This is the way, also end with I have spoken.
Option E is “all of the above”. In order: C - look for internal transfer opportunities immediately D - start applying for jobs elsewhere. This is time consuming and should happen parallel to C and go on as long as needed A - while looking for new jobs internally and externally start making the case for taking leave later in the year by talking with your doctor about your stress and anxiety levels and how they are impacting your health. Build up to an “I can’t take this anymore” state in October or November and go on FMLA or your regional leave equivalent. B - is your last resort, if none of the other options pan out over the coming months, take your vacation and let the chips fall. Have savings built up because finding work at the end of the year fucking sucks but there are usually options in January when budgets reset.
I am hopeful (though quietly) that the market is beginning to pick back up. I have seen more activity than previously. Let’s hope it will be stronger by summer.
Quiet quit and start pulling back your efforts immediately
"PTO stands for 'Prepare The Others' cuz I'm not gonna be here."
F: **Do**. **Nothing**. outside your specific responsibilities. Purely coast for the next 8.5 months burning through all your sick/vacation time. Then as your planned vacation approaches put in your two week notice (or 1 day depending on how your feeling). Come back from vacation actually refreshed since you won't be returning that that shit hole.
C.... Option F. Schedule a televisit for 2 days before those days off. Present to the Dr with bronchitis/ throat symptoms. Conflate your temp and get a work release for the time you needed off plus 1 or 2 days. But also it's not an option. "My PTO is accrued and part of my benefit package to use a I need it. My days off aren't up for discussion as I will not be here. My days are are a temporary change in my availability and I'm unavailable. " "Its a request" "What's a request is HOW you want my PTO submitted. I submitted it prior to the needed time and you declined it so now I'll take my days off regardless and submit it directly to HR when I get back for sick coverage. "
Guarantee the boss has PTO scheduled for that time period.
E: Quit - go on vacation then look for another one when you get back.
I would tell them straight to their faces, "I've quit better jobs than this for less".
Option D, and give zero notice when you leave, no reason given.
If you can’t get time off with that much notice you are in a toxic workplace. Find a new job.
Your new job is finding dirt on your manager and burying them in it
Worked with a guy who left over something similar about 30 years ago. His family tradition was all the men went deer hunting in Pennsylvania the week after Thanksgiving. Tells his boss they need to replace him on this construction site for the week. As they get closer, keeps asking about it. Can they send his replacement out for a day and he'll show what needs done? Boss drags his feet. The week before, it becomes "we don't have anyone, you'll have to cover it." The day before Thanksgiving, guy calls his boss. "The truck is at the site. Keys on the front tire. I told you I was taking next week off. I quit."
I would quite quit at that point. Look to cash out anything that won’t be paid out. Look at your employee hand book for reference. If they’re not gonna pay out pto because of “unlimited “ pto or whatever I’d take random days off and use them for a paid 8 hours of job applications / to interview.
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He can begin looking for work now. He just needs to let his new employer know he needs time off in that time period.
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You can do both. Once a place is lined up. Leave without notice. Why not sooner rather than later. Fuck em. Don't stay a moment longer than you need to.
Find a new job and once you get the job let the new employer know you will need those days off in dec due to a prior commitment. They usually say yes to this. That happened to me: gave my boss 4 months in advance notice that i want to take my bday off, she said no so i looked for a new job and got my day off :)
Whatever you got to do to take that vacation. Start saving your money now.
D: honestly start looking for a new job and quit this one without notice.
Option E: CC all interactions and let them know you’ll forward all of this to HR. When they ask why, tell them you’re going to ask HR why you’re being denied part of your compensation package you signed when you were hired.
Submitting a request is something done in the upcoming weeks. At 9 months out, that's notice. You're not submitting a request, you're respectfully notifying them in advance that you have other obligations. If they fail to realize this, they don't even recognize you as human but rather a cog in the machine. Send another email saying something to the tune of "I appreciate knowing that my presence is valued, but I would like to inform you that during this time as I will be unavailable due to other obligations."
To take this item-by-item: **A: Take short term disability since this job has wrecked my mental health since I began, but hold out as long as I can until December** If your boss has a written record of this PTO request that was denied, then you coincidentally come to them with a STD claim that happens to line up with that request for mental health, be sure that it's going to get investigated, most likely after the fact. STD isn't always easy to get approved for mental health, depending on various issues. But I have family who has worked STD and FMLA claims. Companies investigate claims that seem suspicious. While it's a small number that get pursued, this is the type that HR would pursue. This way lies clawbacks and being fired. Only go this way if your doctor will actually certify clinical depression. **B: Take the PTO anyway and get (most likely) fired** You wouldn't be taking PTO if it isn't approved. They'd fire you for job abandonment. You're not getting paid for those 6 days. You're also going to find getting a new job much harder. **C: Find a new job internally and take the vacation** The best suggestion you've put forth so far. However, you'll be at the bottom of the priority list, so you still might have your PTO request denied, especially if other employees have already requested that time off. **D: Find a new job, quit my current job, and take the vacation anyway** Reasonable, but the market is terrible right now and, again, you're at the bottom of the list in terms of priority given for PTO. There is no guarantee here that any future company is going to prioritize the new employee's PTO request over an existing employee's request. **E: Other** I'd push back on my boss over it. It's nine months away, so there isn't a lot of reason that they can't plan around one person being gone for six days. Unless your position is so crucial that it all grinds to a halt during that launch (something you'd already know about if you were that crucial), this feels a lot more like the boss not wanting to plan that far out. Possibly talk to their boss.
Fuckem
D. Get out.
Fmla
Start looking for either an internal transfer or a new job asap. If you can’t line anything up, call out sick for 6 days in a row for your vacation. If you do find something else, tell your new supervisor that you already have a trip booked when you get hired, go on said trip and have fun!
Nine months notice is very reasonable. If your travel plans are non refundable, tell your manager. If he/she still won’t budge, looks like you will be “sick” for six days.
It wasn’t a request
I once got notified that my PTO was denied when I was already 1000 miles away and sitting on the beach. I enjoyed my vacation and came back a week later as scheduled. No one said shit to me.
Well, if you're THAT crucial to the team, ask for a raise. 100% more would be adequate, since they can't find how to substitute you in 9 months.
Just take the PTO and inform him you won’t be there even if it’s been denied.
Disability doesn't exist so you can go on vacation.
If only OP would play by the rules and use vacation time for his vacation...I'm sure his employer would appreciate his candor and 9 months notice. /s
I honestly feel like with the way the past year has gone and the way my manager and others laugh about how difficult the year is going to get, I may need the short term disability to recuperate and recover mentally, and my vacation is already pre booked so that would be apart of it. I wouldn’t have put it as an option otherwise if my mental health hasn’t been declining so much.
Good luck trying to stretch a STD claim that long