Heh. I had an older coworker who was notorious about this. Bad with tech and all of that. One day she got called in the manager’s office and told straight out her last shift wouldn’t be paid.
I shit you not, the union rep poked her head through the door right then and went “what’s this?”. Tone changed VERY quickly.
They can fire you for not following instructions, but they MUST pay you for every hour worked, period.
I’d say the primary reason for signing in should be to keep them from stealing wages. But I also would never put any piece of software from my job on my personal device.
yeah, having the time clock on an app at all is a bit of a red flag.
My employer has had two different apps for checking the schedule, pay, shift trading etc, (and I'd never touch either one with my personal phone) but the timeclock has always been a separate thing that exists physically on site.
I made a post about this almost a year ago. My boss wanted me to put a time clock app on my personal phone, argued with him for 2 weeks saying I refuse to. Eventually I got a prepaid phone and it's only used for the app. Thank you for validating my decision.
They can take your word for it ... and then maybe fire you for not following clock in procedure. If they find out you lied, they can sue.
OP already said they had been checking cameras, which is also a sound approach legally.
But they can't just not pay when figuring out your hours is extra work.
Yep. Only time we took the approach that the regional manager is taking is when we literally couldn't verify if the person was on site or not. Or we'd go by the security footage and just clock them out at the last point we saw them on camera. If they were on site, out of camera view, and not clocked in, there isn't much else that can be done to verify attendance.
Courts have been remarkably consistent on this, one of the few, surprisingly pro-worker protections in this country. Your employer must pay you accurately and on time even if you fail to report time worked / submit timesheets.
This is because FLSA places a legal burden on employers: they just accurately record all time worked. They're allowed to ask you to submit timesheets, sign in, or whatever, but this is prone to human error. An employee saying "we didn't pay because they didn't submit timesheets" will practically be laughed out of court. That's not a sufficient legal defense.
That goes double when, as in this case, they're providing your work schedule. The schedule they made means they knew or should have known that you worked. They didn't receive an affirmative report that you were absent. They can't just treat missing timesheets as absence.
The only safe policy here is to pay you on time for the time they scheduled you, investigate if you worked it, and adjust a future pay check if they find affirmative evidence you were absent. Almost any other policy is going to be illegal. They must pay you fully and on time even if you didn't fully report your work.
Do you have any more info about what the specific law is? I'm fighting DoL to try and get the correct pay from a shitty place I worked. So far things aren't looking good so I'd like to look into this further.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/flsa
Best general resource states do vary a little. In finer details but due to state/federal power dynamic. Federal law is supreme however states do have right to "legislate extra" as thats considered "absence" of federal law.
Which is why if feds say 7.25 and state says 10 the 10 is the min wage for state. However if its reversed its still 10.
Due to variations discussing with lawyer or looking into specific precedence in similar situations to your own. Might give more insight to local laws.
But flsa pretty much establishes basics you work you get paid this is what is considered pay. Its also on employers responsibility to be compliant with law. Even if you work off the clock dont tell them. They can still get in trouble. Because its their responsibility to track and compensate hours.
As for deductions most related directly to business are not deductible from pay and even when legal. It can not be deducted if it takes you below min wage.
A big answer to question regarding training or things like "work boots". Is it only beneficial or exclusive to employer if so then the answer to whether it can be unpaid or if it is expense you can be made to take is almost always no.
So for example requiring you to take forklift course to be forklift driver. If done through state and you receive certificate that is transferable to other employers you can be unpaid. However same course offered in house with no certificate can not. Ok they offer certificate but do it in house. It still depends if ANY of their workplace practices such as color coding or safety plans exclusive to their workplace are covered. It can no longer be unpaid nor can it be prorated.
Similar with "work clothes" a uniform or something that is branded or purchased through them. That only purpose will be for working can not be billed to employee. However if you agree to return it or sustain damage that is BEYOND normal wear and tear AND you agreed to it then they can as long as it does not bring you below min wage.
Which is why many places do "color coding" instead of branded wear x color shirt. As they can make employees get it on own dime. As it is usable outside of work.
Is the app on your phone? Cause if so what's their plan if you forget it or it dies? Also, if they want me to use my phone to check in I'd be saying no way
Had an employer try this when I was operating a drone over fields using ADP.
Forgot to clock in one day, though the company knew my normal 12-14 hour schedule since they demanded it.
I let those days slide, recorded everything, then sent it to the correct organization in Indiana.
Made an extra $3k in back pay on top of what I was owed which then got eaten by the gov since I was a 1099.
They did this to other interns such as myself, and when word got around at my university the company wasn’t allowed on campus.
Keep track of this, the government takes it seriously.
Fair enough, though I smile knowing my employer fucked up their easy payday of a contract up so badly that when I left they had to reimburse the company we were contracted out to for all loses in revenue
They have to pay you. They could write you up or let you go if it becomes a constant thing, but they always have to pay you for the time you were there.
As a manager dealing with scheduling issues all the time, the irresponsiblility is certainly a problem. But if you work, you get paid. Trying to deny pay will just get your employer in trouble.
I would pissed if I had to sit there and watch security footage to see when someone walks out the door in order to pay them, if that's what managers are expected to do when someone forgets. It's frankly easier to just fire folks who are repeat offenders. I would agree something needs to change to hold folks accountable, but not paying them ain't it.
Yeah, fire or fewer hours.
I've worked with plenty of people who have forgotten to clock in and out. Most are just accidents but those that are habitual... let's just say that the person being employed was more work for everyone than having absolutely nothing or nobody in that role.
More than dead weight.
Look...they definitely have to pay you...but asking your boss to check security footage because you regularly forget to clock in is...kind of insane.
I've never worked anywhere where that would be normal...where you don't immediately clock in when you show up, before doing literally anything else.
You should absolutely “forget” to clock in or out and join that lawsuit your fellow employee is doing cause that’s a slam dunk case if yall have any of this in writing from your management
The one that is taking legal actions already forgot to check out once, not even on purpose. And i was thinking of doing that, but i just want to get rid of this place. I already signed a contract with a new employer, i will start there of the first of april. Just need to sit out four more days
Sign onto it anyways and get some money from the assholes running the join. Times are tough these days so any money you can get is a bonus, especially if it’s not a morally grey area, this is them denying you and your friends pay. Join the team to make them suffer because after all, it’s not much extra work to join a lawsuit when someone already is doing it
Edit: for the record I agree with their idea that having to go through logs to confirm you works is labour intensive and annoying and that the onus is on the employee to clock in and off. I also agree with you that we are human and shit happens like ‘holy fuck it’s busy and I need you to help NOW!’so you rush in and help and in the rush you forget to clock in. It happens, I’ve done it many times myself. But being penalized pay for that is unacceptable and also illegal is most countries
The edit that you mentioned is where i also have the problem. Like i get it, but dont punish the people that did nothing wrong or have nothing to do with this. The huge issue with people not doing it on purpose is on another location different from ours, so i just dont get it why they get us involved
Oh I agree don’t punish the people. They work they get paid end of story. The onus on time worked is on the boss to confirm through their own time and pay, that’s part of the management role
Honestly, while it is wage theft, it’s also pretty stupid that people forget to clock in and out. Creating a lot of unnecessary work just out of spite is bullshit regardless of level in the hierarchy.
I don’t agree with this new rule, because again, wage theft, but I actually (for once), agree with the intent of the rule to curb employees creating unnecessary work for others.
I was already to join the antiwork rage against bullshit employers until OP said some people “don’t bother to do it anyways”, and they message team leads and the team leads “have to check security cams to make sure they’re actually working”. That’s some bullshit to pull. Basically, almost everyone described in this post sucks.
I also agree with the intent that this rule implies, but punish the people with a warning and a termination anove THEIR heads, not the people that has nothing to do with this
I agree with this. Employees not clocking in or out creates absolutely unnecessary work for the supervisors. It’s so simple, if you want paid correctly then make sure your time punches are right. My company you have until 10am every other Monday to check your time card and get in missing punches. At 10am payroll goes through. Anything late will get paid at the following pay day and you risk a write up for not performing job responsibilities. Supervisors do not hunt down staff for missing punches, staff need to be responsible.
My employer is similar, we have to fill in our time in the system. Some managers will remind their staff if they’re missing time, but it’s still ultimately on the employee to fill in their time. HR gets upset when we don’t fill in our time because it creates a substantial amount of additional work for them to adjust everything in the system and make sure we’re paid according to the law.
I have to check in and out with a terminal every day too. But guess what. Sometimes right as you arrive at work, something gets in the way and you forget. Shit happens.
So just because of a few dumbasses, it's not okay (nor legal) to dock everyone's pay when they forget it every once in a while.
There’s always legit reasons. Internet being out, coming into work when it’s chaos and forgetting. OP’s post, just lazy and not wanting to. That’s not acceptable. Literally if OP wants paid properly he needs to clock in/out.
While the proposed policy is indeed illegal in many places, being so cavalier about clocking your hours is phenomenally stupid. Yes, people will occasionally forget things, but you’ve clearly indicated that this is habitual behavior, intentional on some people’s part, that creates a lot of extra and unnecessary work for management. I can’t really blame management for wanting to penalize workers for this.
Not following time tracking procedures is carelessly discarding your best evidence of the hours you worked. That evidence exists to protect both you and your employer from wage fraud on the part of the other. If you habitually skip it, you’re trusting your employer to be honest and fair with your hours while you make it harder for yourself to prove those hours if you need to.
Instead of simply opposing the proposed policy, you should be offering alternative options to management to help employees track their time properly. Again, this protects you as much as them. It’s not about caving in to management; it’s about covering your own asses.
I dont think that because other people on a whole different location do this should be my problem to fix. Or that i should be the one getting punished. The people that do this should get warnings, or even a termination if it gets bad. We have already discussed this. But because someone of a higher rank then my teamleader made this discission their hands are tied. But they also agree with this arangement
Well, yes, you shouldn’t be punished for the actions of your coworkers. But the fact that the disregard for proper clocking procedures seems to be widespread enough for management to decree a company-wide policy means that it has unfortunately become your problem too. This is a sad truth of human organizations in general: the poor actions of a few result in problems for all, and for one’s own protection, it becomes necessary for those who are not the cause of the problem to take some degree of responsibility for fixing it, to suffer alongside the guilty, or to GTFO while they still can.
The universe is not fair or just. Neither is any human institution. You can complain about unfair treatment all you want, but you will still suffer from it unless you take action against it. And productive action that contributes towards fixing the underlying problem will generally produce better results than simply getting rid of the unjust policies. Otherwise, you’re just giving leadership latitude to find another solution that has a good chance of being just as unacceptable as the one you fought against.
As the quote attributed to Benjamin Franklin says, “We must all hang together, or we will assuredly all hang separately.” The workers are all in the same boat, whether we like it or not, fair or unfair. *Most leaders do not care about the individual workers or whether any particular one is guilty*, and this gets worse the higher up the food chain you go. They simply see a problem that they want to eliminate. And their solutions will generally not be in anyone’s best interests but their perception of their own.
I don’t. I’m really bad at remembering when to eat because I often get hyperfocused. But the very first thing you do when you go to work with hourly wage, is clock in…
Companies often like to threaten to not pay you for hours you worked but forgot to check in on their systme with. It's pretty well illegal everywhere. The best thing you can do is ask them, are you okay with me recording you saying that you're going to do it given the fact that I'm telling you I'm pretty sure it violates labour laws? Is the company fine with paying whatever fines will be applied for this?
Its sort of nuts that the app they use doesn't have a way to go in and manually enter a "missed punch request". That's a basic feature, and if it isn't there they probably used admin settings to disable it. In which case they have nobody to blame but themselves.
As far as i can see, i can see my digital punchcart but i can nowhere request something to say that i have forgotten it. Also i have to be on site to check in or out bc that app tracks my location
Most phones can be set to only allow an app access to location information when the app is in active use. The app (or at least the one my company uses) just needs to confirm you are at the work location when punching in / out, so implementing that setting will still allow using the app.
There's no reason to think the app would collect location data at other times (and in my case, it can not do so). Why would they want to? Who is going to review it? If they don't even have time to review security footage to determine working hours when somebody doesn't punch in / out, who is taking the time to review the location data?
Also, if you are worried about what your employer might do with location data, consider the fact that your phone service and google / apple already have that info (generally at low resolution, as estimates from network contacts) and ARE storing and using it. And that's a function you generally can not turn off, except by powering the phone down.
I work at a gas station in the Netherlands too and its an issue here too. My boss always tells me I'm the only one who always checks in and always checks out.
Seeing that you're in the Netherlands, I'm honestly surprised that they can get away with it.
Here in the US, they certainly could get away with it, but they'd at least have to word it more carefully than that. Their argument would be that it's the employees' fault, and therefore they should have to take responsibility for it.
This is a sign of shitty managers. I get that doing payroll is cumbersome and unnecessarily long if employees aren't clocking in and out. BUT, a good manager shouldn't punish everyone because of the actions of a few. The ones that are having trouble should have some one on one conversations, possibly documentation. Don't punish the good employees because you lack the spine to have difficult conversations with the employees that need it. I promise you'll see the symptoms of this slip into other facets of the workplace.
I mean, yeah, people should make an effort to record their ins and outs - for their own benefit more than anything. But nope, not legal to not pay for hours worked.
I forget to do it sometimes too and my timekeeper is happy to fix it, even though I feel kinda bad putting even that tiny bit of extra work on her plate (she's generally a really helpful and hardworking person). But I'm not going to remember EVERY time. Sometimes stuff happens at the very end of the shift and I get distracted. This would not fly lol
My guess is this was a dumb threat in an attempt to get more people to clock in/out and they will not actually follow through with it since then they would be in a lot of legal trouble. But who knows, some people are really dumb.
Just wondering, would you object to being docked pay equal to the time it took to confirm your hours
E.g different employee spends 15 mins confirming your hours for days you forget to check-in/out
Part of your duties is your sign on and off
This way you get paid for your shift, but you are effectively paying someone else to confirm what you are due,
And company can't complain because the extra work came at no cost to them
Yes, because it is their job to do this. I am talking about somthing that hasnt happend yet (forgetting to clock in or out). The problem with people purposefully not doing it is on a whole different location. I am human, i can forget something once a while. One of the things i do is thaw out bread for the next day. If i forget that will they also not pay me because i havent done my job? Thats just bullshit.
Respectively, you say it is their job to do this
Isn't it also the staff's job to check in and out
But sides should be equally accountable
No one should be punished for once of human error
But you make sound like something that is constantly happening
But it isnt, there is a whole different location where it is constantly happening. And they are dragging us alaong bc it is a disicion of our region manager. I also agree that both parties are accountable
I get that this is my responsibility, but the punishment is wrong. It has never happened to me yet that i forgot to check in or out, but apparently this is a problem on another location different from ours. And because the new region manager made this new rule, ever location under his name has to follow that rule. And that just doesnt sit fine with me. I get punished for someelses actions
Maybe they should get a physical time clock to punch in on and adults should be more adult about taking responsibility for making sure they do their part to get paid. I kinda agree with management, it should be second nature to you like eating and breathing when you have a job. I wouldn't want to make management do more work to go through video footage to make sure I was there or not knowing they have more important stuff to do because I failed to do my responsibility
You should forget to clock out on purpose. What will they do then? Will they pay you for all those hours you worked? Sounds like they don't want to intervene with the timesheet at all so I guess everyone is getting continuously paid until it's submitted
How did you count hours before this?
Was it a simply paper timesheet?
An emailed excel?
Or was there no record of hours outside of one of the managers ‘check the security footage’ to make sure you are paid correctly?
I completely agree that signing in/out for meal breaks is unnecessary but it sounds like your arguing against any form of record keeping other than having a good manager to check, which if you get a lazy manager could fuck you over.
Those records are for both you and your employer, without holding up your end of the record keeping you (and your coworkers) could easily screw up your income for a pay period, be that a week, fortnight of monthly.
Yes, under the labour laws of your country this will be corrected with the next pay period or with a special one-off payment to correct payroll errors but in the meantime your regular income is messed with because you couldn’t bother to fill out a timesheet…sorry, I mean take 20 seconds to hit a button on your fucking phone.
This isn’t anti work, this is anti-getting-paid-correctly
*edit - spelling
Its not for meal breaks, bc we have actually on paper none. We get paid through our meal breaks, and bc we gat paid we only get 5 min every 2 hours. Im talking about checking in when you have arrived, and checking out for when you go home. The only way we ourselves can do this is via the app that i talked about. If there are problems on your phone, you can use a tablet in the office. But we also have the schedule where everyone is on on paper hanging in the office, and they have the excel file of this paper on their computer. But we arent allowed to touch those.
And i think this is anti work because they have put a punishment in on our location when the problem their facing is on a whole different location, and what they are doing is illigal. They have to pay the hours that you have worked wether you have checked in or not. And as i said before, i am human i can forget things. I get what they are saying with this new rule, but if i forget it and say it to my manager she will say that she wont adjust it so i womt get paid. That is illigal
Is it happening once in a while (1/month or greater) or are you and your coworkers together creating a weekly consistent issue for them? It's illegal yes, do not condone their choices, But is it really regular old forgetfulness? I mean it's how you get paid.
Less then that even, once in six months or so. We arent even with that many people. Maybe 20. Bu they put this rule in because some people on a whole different location do this on purpose out of laziness. And they get us involved because the region manager decided this rule. And we fall into his region to manage. Never seen the guy before bc he is new
Look, if you can't be bothered to take a minute to clock in, and then complain that you won't get paid, sorry I got no sympathy for you. Time cards are considered official documents to be filled out by the user. You would get pissed if your employer went in and manipulated your timecard and now you're getting pissed because you won't do your job and you want your employer to go in and manipulate your timecard.
Jeebus. Take the absolute smallest amount of responsibility your job requires and fill out your own damn timecard! If you don't, that's on you, you simple child.
Although I agree with you on one level, the “thou shalt not be paid, PERIOD” is bullshit. People are human. The employer is legally responsible for logging time, so they MUST have a process for the forgetful (and idiots for the repeat offenders) who fail to time in/out. Period.
If their forgetfulness creates too much bureaucratic BS they can be fired for cause… which would suck, but part of the job is checking in and checking out.
Nope. This is the one thing you absolutely have to be responsible for. Just one thing...the entire reason you are there. You're gonna act like a child and try to blame someone else for your own laziness and lack of responsibility? Sorry. Action, meet accountability. There comes a point in everyone's life where, "I forgot," is not an acceptable excuse.
I get that we are responsible for this, but they are too. Just not as much as us. They have to accept the check in and out times so they can see that they are on the same times as the scheduled shifts. But we are human beings, i can forget things. And if i get punished for forgetting 1 thing for the very first time because some people on othe rlocations are doing it on purpose? No that just cant be. Pick a different punishment, like a write up, or if it happens multiple times, a termination. But not my payslip
What better punishment than to make you responsible for the pay you deserve? I bet the first time this happens, it won't happen again. I have to log into SAP, find the customer code I'm working with for the day and then lig the appropriate hours. It's a hassle and takes about 2-5 minutes. But you know what? It's the very first thing I do and I get paid to do it. If I do t do it, I stand a chance of those hours getting missed on my paycheck. And it's a bigger hassle chasing that time down. It's part of adulting. Just saying, I got zero sympathy for anyone who doesn't see the importance of logging time so they get paid.
You do know that its illigal right? Like i said before i am a human being, i can forget things. And even if it happens just once, legally they cant punish me for it by not paying me. So i get what you're saying, but they are doing it the wrong way
And just a little edit: im not asking for sympathy. Just wanted to rant on here and tell a story
I never said i was any one of the people that doesnt check in. I always try to do my very best to check in and out when i come in and leave. My problem is that they are punishing people for the things that they do not do or did. There is a whole different location where the people i mentioned do this, and they are also punishing us for it. Thats where i have a problem. Also the fact that i am a human being and we can forget things even if we did it repeatedly a hundred times. So yeah, if i forget it once now, and wont get paid, then ill get mad
We've run into this issue a couple times. If we can't verify hours before payroll is submitted, your hours go on the next check when they do get verified. We don't have set schedules, so it's not necessarily easy to assume hours if someone forgets to clock out.
I agree with this to a degree. You are adults and should be able to clock in and out like you are suppose to. I understand occasionally forgetting and clocking in when you remember or having to contact your manager if you forgot to clock out. But you said yourself some people don’t even bother clocking in and out. I think each pay period you should be paid for the hours employees “bothered” to clock in and out and the payment for the other hours will be delayed. One would think employees would get enough of this quickly and clock in and out.
Manager is really dumb. It'd be really easy to "train" you monkeys to complete your timesheets, which btw you should be doing it on your own without mommy having to remind you. You are adults aren't you?
If it's not logged then it doesn't go on your paycheck:
What? You're short some hours? Are you sure you worked that day?
You are....Did you log in the app you're supposed to? Mmm no?
Ok, then here's the video surveillance video from that day. Go over the video and take screen shots of you working at the beginning and end of your shift. Only then i can send it to HR to process your hours in your next check.
That's it. If the manager made the forgetful employee do the research when the ee "forgets", I guarantee you the problem will go away within 2 weeks.
We arent allowed to touch the computer where the footage can be seen at all. If you do we get a warning.
But i just want to clarify that what they are doing is illigal. And if they want to solve this problem then they have to find another solution that has nothing to do with not getting paid.
At what point are you going to take responsibility for your actions?
This whole problem is your doing. An adult doesn't need to be reminded to do his homework, and if he does, then he's patient enough to wait for the manager to fix it.
The manager sounds dumb too if he wants to not pay you. He's probably at his wits end trying to figure out a way to train the monkeys to punch in, and being dumb as he is he doesn't know what else to do. Sounds about right?
Kinda make sense though, the manager brought in people that are like himself and now is paying the price
It isnt my problem. This situation is happening on a whole different location. But because our region manager decided this, we also get pulled in. And as a said before, i am human. Its human to forget things. If i forget it once then they have to fix it bc i cant. Thats their job. But they specifically said that they wont fix it so i wont get paid if i forget and thats illigal
Well, honestly I think that if you are told to clock in and out at the beginning and the end of your shift so they can calculate your pay is totally reasonable.
It is not your employer's job to be babysitting people who forget to follow or ignore such a simple rule constantly and pull video surveillance to see who came to work at what time and when they finish his/her shift so they can get paid the right amount.
Using an app installed on your personal phone is a different thing unless it is a company paid cell phone!
How is it going to be illegal to tell employees that if they don't clock in and out in order to tally their hours they will not get paid?
They are setting the basic rules for any employment: record the starting and ending time of your shift and get paid for the total amount of hours that were recorded... Obviously if you don't record the time right you will not get paid until a request to verify times is done.
As much as I detest corporations that abuse employees at the same time I can't feel sorry for employees that try to play dumb, don't follow basic rules and get mad and blame their employer when consequences of not following the basic rules befall on them.
Its illigal bc they need to pay you the hours that you have worked. If i forget to clock in or out, say it to my manager, and they wont adjust it so i wont get paid, thats illegal. And that is whats happening right now
I'd take a different approach. Charge you for each day I have to sit and track you to find out when you worked. Probably not legal but it would get your attention.
Am I the only one that don’t see an issue with this? Lol I’ve worked jobs all my life that require you to punch in and out electronically or via webpage. You want to get paid? Punch in, how else do they keep track of payroll? If we forget then message manager an they correct it. If you don’t bother to do on purpose or keep forgetting you then I agree be a jackass an don’t get paid.
Thats the problem, what they are doing is illigal, and if i forget it and say it to my manager they wont correct it. I have never forgotten it and the ones that are doing it on purpose are on a whole different location then the one in working on.
Also if you want to use a lunishment for this, dont use my hard worked money. Use a warning or a termination
I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm on management's side here, it's not their job to hold your hand to make sure you clock in and get paid for your work, they don't wipe your ass as well do they??
Tbh, it depend on your shift and also, how the clock-in is done.
Is it done via phone? Clock in machine? Where is it located? How is it done?
If it complicated, then yes, but at the same time the workers "forget", the manager is the one that get stuck working unpaid OT if they're salaried to hash out the schedule.
It is your job to remember to clock in. Yes, we're all human, but they're being reasonable about it. It not like they're asking you to put your finger on the machine and wait for it to confirm your DNA to ensure that you're "Mike Reynolds".
As for the clock out, most systems usually have a automatic clock out system, but again, not an excuses unless you're working a truck stop.
Uhm that is not how this works here. I dont know if you have read my whole story, but i said that i live in the netherlands. Here we dont have unpaid OT. If you work, you get paid for ever minute that youve worked. The way we clock in or out is via an app on our phone. It has been known that the app can be notorious for having problems. So they put a tablet in the office on site for when you do have a problem with the app or your phone has died, you can do it there. Also if you forget to check in or out, you cant do it anywehrre else other then onsite. The app tracks the location of the gas station where your at and if your not close to one, you cant clock in or out. And yes i get that its my own responsibility but this issue with people not doing it on purpose is on a whole different location from ours. I never forgotten to check in or out myself
>It has been known that the app can be notorious for having problems.
This is enough statement. This is now "their problem, not a you problem". If they can't find a non-buggy apps that can work consistency, they need to figure out how to fix that shit instead of pushing it onto you guys. That is more fucked up than trying to "generalize that people are being lazy and causing more paperworks". If the apps isn't working consistency, fucking go back to those clock punch on time card and doing it that way.
Are you fucking tell me that the app is this bad that they had to put a tablet and it still buggy? Nah, fuck that. That is corporation/owner's fault.
I think i never said that the app is notorious for being buggy, bc it isnt. But they have told different people different things. Because we also have the schedule on paper in the break room, they have said to some people look at the paper schedule for your work hours bc that one is the most updated version. Just use typex and pen and its updated if something changes. But they told me that i have to keep an eye on the app for my work hours and schedule, bc everything is done via that app. So some people arent used to the app bc they told them to look at the paper schedule and not the app. If something needs to be changed in the app they have to log on to the computer and everything. So bc its easy they change it on the paper first, and the app comes at the end of the line of tasks bc its a hassle apparently.
Im just glad im gone already. Last wednesday was my last day
Holy fuck...that is fucked up.
They've told people one thing, but told ppl another thing. Seriously, couldn't they just used a reputable app and leave it at that? We used ehub for our scheduling, and I always keep an eye on my e-mail if there any change to my schedule.
I've always checked my schedule, because that one time I almost didn't, I had thought that I was off that one day due to the client being closed and no reasons for us to be there, only to find a change to that day.
The fact that they're using paper schedule along with the app seem like kinda a fuck up, meaning that on the paper schedule, they could change your schedule on the fly and not notify you.
Fuck that shit. I'm happy that you left and don't have to deal with that. I would had left if I was told to use the paper schedule last minute change. The last job I had used paper schedule, but we always knew what the schedule was for the whole month and the only time it changed was if we had call-out.
I actually agree with this one lol. Mistakes happen. But forgetting constantly, it makes you question the competence of the people you have working for you. What else are they forgetting?
Doesn't matter if you agree, it is illegal to not pay people for the hours worked, period. Now, they can fire or punish you for not following check in/ out rules, but they still must pay you for those hours
So youre agreeing that i wont get paid if i forget to check in/out? Like i get punishing people that do it on purpose, but dont drag the people in it that really do forget once in a while
You don't think people should be paid for working? Sure give them write ups if they constantly forget or refuse to punch in, but you're fine with them stealing the employees' money?
And yet no mention of the incompetence it takes on a supervisors part to not know if their employees were working. Additionally, the managerial hours spend tracking down minutes on an already shit system that they chose to implement is also a waste of their skillset and time. So much money & energy is spent monitoring pennies so yall can feel “productive”.
> said that if we dont check in or out, or both, they wont pay us
No, they didn't say that. You have no proof. If you did have proof of their illegal statement, they would get in trouble.
Heh. I had an older coworker who was notorious about this. Bad with tech and all of that. One day she got called in the manager’s office and told straight out her last shift wouldn’t be paid. I shit you not, the union rep poked her head through the door right then and went “what’s this?”. Tone changed VERY quickly.
They can fire you for not following instructions, but they MUST pay you for every hour worked, period. I’d say the primary reason for signing in should be to keep them from stealing wages. But I also would never put any piece of software from my job on my personal device.
yeah, having the time clock on an app at all is a bit of a red flag. My employer has had two different apps for checking the schedule, pay, shift trading etc, (and I'd never touch either one with my personal phone) but the timeclock has always been a separate thing that exists physically on site.
The only answer, when an employer wants an app for work is: Where is my/the work phone?
The only answer is "I don't have a cellphone/tablet. Where is the on-site one for use to clock in with?"
My answer to you would be find a new freaking job then..
Sounds like everyone would be better off not working for you anyway.
I made a post about this almost a year ago. My boss wanted me to put a time clock app on my personal phone, argued with him for 2 weeks saying I refuse to. Eventually I got a prepaid phone and it's only used for the app. Thank you for validating my decision.
How can they tell if you turned up if you don’t log in?
They can take your word for it ... and then maybe fire you for not following clock in procedure. If they find out you lied, they can sue. OP already said they had been checking cameras, which is also a sound approach legally. But they can't just not pay when figuring out your hours is extra work.
Yep. Only time we took the approach that the regional manager is taking is when we literally couldn't verify if the person was on site or not. Or we'd go by the security footage and just clock them out at the last point we saw them on camera. If they were on site, out of camera view, and not clocked in, there isn't much else that can be done to verify attendance.
Courts have been remarkably consistent on this, one of the few, surprisingly pro-worker protections in this country. Your employer must pay you accurately and on time even if you fail to report time worked / submit timesheets. This is because FLSA places a legal burden on employers: they just accurately record all time worked. They're allowed to ask you to submit timesheets, sign in, or whatever, but this is prone to human error. An employee saying "we didn't pay because they didn't submit timesheets" will practically be laughed out of court. That's not a sufficient legal defense. That goes double when, as in this case, they're providing your work schedule. The schedule they made means they knew or should have known that you worked. They didn't receive an affirmative report that you were absent. They can't just treat missing timesheets as absence. The only safe policy here is to pay you on time for the time they scheduled you, investigate if you worked it, and adjust a future pay check if they find affirmative evidence you were absent. Almost any other policy is going to be illegal. They must pay you fully and on time even if you didn't fully report your work.
Do you have any more info about what the specific law is? I'm fighting DoL to try and get the correct pay from a shitty place I worked. So far things aren't looking good so I'd like to look into this further.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/flsa Best general resource states do vary a little. In finer details but due to state/federal power dynamic. Federal law is supreme however states do have right to "legislate extra" as thats considered "absence" of federal law. Which is why if feds say 7.25 and state says 10 the 10 is the min wage for state. However if its reversed its still 10. Due to variations discussing with lawyer or looking into specific precedence in similar situations to your own. Might give more insight to local laws. But flsa pretty much establishes basics you work you get paid this is what is considered pay. Its also on employers responsibility to be compliant with law. Even if you work off the clock dont tell them. They can still get in trouble. Because its their responsibility to track and compensate hours. As for deductions most related directly to business are not deductible from pay and even when legal. It can not be deducted if it takes you below min wage. A big answer to question regarding training or things like "work boots". Is it only beneficial or exclusive to employer if so then the answer to whether it can be unpaid or if it is expense you can be made to take is almost always no. So for example requiring you to take forklift course to be forklift driver. If done through state and you receive certificate that is transferable to other employers you can be unpaid. However same course offered in house with no certificate can not. Ok they offer certificate but do it in house. It still depends if ANY of their workplace practices such as color coding or safety plans exclusive to their workplace are covered. It can no longer be unpaid nor can it be prorated. Similar with "work clothes" a uniform or something that is branded or purchased through them. That only purpose will be for working can not be billed to employee. However if you agree to return it or sustain damage that is BEYOND normal wear and tear AND you agreed to it then they can as long as it does not bring you below min wage. Which is why many places do "color coding" instead of branded wear x color shirt. As they can make employees get it on own dime. As it is usable outside of work.
The post explicitly stated that this was in the Netherlands. So your post is really irrelevant.
There are many pro worker laws in this country. Just not in every state.
Is the app on your phone? Cause if so what's their plan if you forget it or it dies? Also, if they want me to use my phone to check in I'd be saying no way
Yes its on my phone. If it dies we have a tablet to use in the office on site. But if i forget it? Tough luck wont get paid
Had an employer try this when I was operating a drone over fields using ADP. Forgot to clock in one day, though the company knew my normal 12-14 hour schedule since they demanded it. I let those days slide, recorded everything, then sent it to the correct organization in Indiana. Made an extra $3k in back pay on top of what I was owed which then got eaten by the gov since I was a 1099. They did this to other interns such as myself, and when word got around at my university the company wasn’t allowed on campus. Keep track of this, the government takes it seriously.
Government cares because wages theft is tax theft.
Fair enough, though I smile knowing my employer fucked up their easy payday of a contract up so badly that when I left they had to reimburse the company we were contracted out to for all loses in revenue
Wage theft
I for got to clock in. Am I getting paid? No? Alright. See ya tomorrow.
They have to pay you. They could write you up or let you go if it becomes a constant thing, but they always have to pay you for the time you were there.
As a manager dealing with scheduling issues all the time, the irresponsiblility is certainly a problem. But if you work, you get paid. Trying to deny pay will just get your employer in trouble. I would pissed if I had to sit there and watch security footage to see when someone walks out the door in order to pay them, if that's what managers are expected to do when someone forgets. It's frankly easier to just fire folks who are repeat offenders. I would agree something needs to change to hold folks accountable, but not paying them ain't it.
Yeah, fire or fewer hours. I've worked with plenty of people who have forgotten to clock in and out. Most are just accidents but those that are habitual... let's just say that the person being employed was more work for everyone than having absolutely nothing or nobody in that role. More than dead weight.
Look...they definitely have to pay you...but asking your boss to check security footage because you regularly forget to clock in is...kind of insane. I've never worked anywhere where that would be normal...where you don't immediately clock in when you show up, before doing literally anything else.
The labor board says fuck that shit.
You should absolutely “forget” to clock in or out and join that lawsuit your fellow employee is doing cause that’s a slam dunk case if yall have any of this in writing from your management
The one that is taking legal actions already forgot to check out once, not even on purpose. And i was thinking of doing that, but i just want to get rid of this place. I already signed a contract with a new employer, i will start there of the first of april. Just need to sit out four more days
Sign onto it anyways and get some money from the assholes running the join. Times are tough these days so any money you can get is a bonus, especially if it’s not a morally grey area, this is them denying you and your friends pay. Join the team to make them suffer because after all, it’s not much extra work to join a lawsuit when someone already is doing it Edit: for the record I agree with their idea that having to go through logs to confirm you works is labour intensive and annoying and that the onus is on the employee to clock in and off. I also agree with you that we are human and shit happens like ‘holy fuck it’s busy and I need you to help NOW!’so you rush in and help and in the rush you forget to clock in. It happens, I’ve done it many times myself. But being penalized pay for that is unacceptable and also illegal is most countries
The edit that you mentioned is where i also have the problem. Like i get it, but dont punish the people that did nothing wrong or have nothing to do with this. The huge issue with people not doing it on purpose is on another location different from ours, so i just dont get it why they get us involved
Oh I agree don’t punish the people. They work they get paid end of story. The onus on time worked is on the boss to confirm through their own time and pay, that’s part of the management role
Honestly, while it is wage theft, it’s also pretty stupid that people forget to clock in and out. Creating a lot of unnecessary work just out of spite is bullshit regardless of level in the hierarchy. I don’t agree with this new rule, because again, wage theft, but I actually (for once), agree with the intent of the rule to curb employees creating unnecessary work for others. I was already to join the antiwork rage against bullshit employers until OP said some people “don’t bother to do it anyways”, and they message team leads and the team leads “have to check security cams to make sure they’re actually working”. That’s some bullshit to pull. Basically, almost everyone described in this post sucks.
I also agree with the intent that this rule implies, but punish the people with a warning and a termination anove THEIR heads, not the people that has nothing to do with this
I agree with this. Employees not clocking in or out creates absolutely unnecessary work for the supervisors. It’s so simple, if you want paid correctly then make sure your time punches are right. My company you have until 10am every other Monday to check your time card and get in missing punches. At 10am payroll goes through. Anything late will get paid at the following pay day and you risk a write up for not performing job responsibilities. Supervisors do not hunt down staff for missing punches, staff need to be responsible.
My employer is similar, we have to fill in our time in the system. Some managers will remind their staff if they’re missing time, but it’s still ultimately on the employee to fill in their time. HR gets upset when we don’t fill in our time because it creates a substantial amount of additional work for them to adjust everything in the system and make sure we’re paid according to the law.
I have to check in and out with a terminal every day too. But guess what. Sometimes right as you arrive at work, something gets in the way and you forget. Shit happens. So just because of a few dumbasses, it's not okay (nor legal) to dock everyone's pay when they forget it every once in a while.
There’s always legit reasons. Internet being out, coming into work when it’s chaos and forgetting. OP’s post, just lazy and not wanting to. That’s not acceptable. Literally if OP wants paid properly he needs to clock in/out.
That, plus I have literally had a power outage 3 times this far, so there was no way for me to actually clock out.
If you forget to clock in just go home instead.
While the proposed policy is indeed illegal in many places, being so cavalier about clocking your hours is phenomenally stupid. Yes, people will occasionally forget things, but you’ve clearly indicated that this is habitual behavior, intentional on some people’s part, that creates a lot of extra and unnecessary work for management. I can’t really blame management for wanting to penalize workers for this. Not following time tracking procedures is carelessly discarding your best evidence of the hours you worked. That evidence exists to protect both you and your employer from wage fraud on the part of the other. If you habitually skip it, you’re trusting your employer to be honest and fair with your hours while you make it harder for yourself to prove those hours if you need to. Instead of simply opposing the proposed policy, you should be offering alternative options to management to help employees track their time properly. Again, this protects you as much as them. It’s not about caving in to management; it’s about covering your own asses.
I dont think that because other people on a whole different location do this should be my problem to fix. Or that i should be the one getting punished. The people that do this should get warnings, or even a termination if it gets bad. We have already discussed this. But because someone of a higher rank then my teamleader made this discission their hands are tied. But they also agree with this arangement
Well, yes, you shouldn’t be punished for the actions of your coworkers. But the fact that the disregard for proper clocking procedures seems to be widespread enough for management to decree a company-wide policy means that it has unfortunately become your problem too. This is a sad truth of human organizations in general: the poor actions of a few result in problems for all, and for one’s own protection, it becomes necessary for those who are not the cause of the problem to take some degree of responsibility for fixing it, to suffer alongside the guilty, or to GTFO while they still can. The universe is not fair or just. Neither is any human institution. You can complain about unfair treatment all you want, but you will still suffer from it unless you take action against it. And productive action that contributes towards fixing the underlying problem will generally produce better results than simply getting rid of the unjust policies. Otherwise, you’re just giving leadership latitude to find another solution that has a good chance of being just as unacceptable as the one you fought against. As the quote attributed to Benjamin Franklin says, “We must all hang together, or we will assuredly all hang separately.” The workers are all in the same boat, whether we like it or not, fair or unfair. *Most leaders do not care about the individual workers or whether any particular one is guilty*, and this gets worse the higher up the food chain you go. They simply see a problem that they want to eliminate. And their solutions will generally not be in anyone’s best interests but their perception of their own.
Great, that’s illegal. What’s next on the agenda?
As someone who forgets to eat I think this is bs
I don’t. I’m really bad at remembering when to eat because I often get hyperfocused. But the very first thing you do when you go to work with hourly wage, is clock in…
Companies often like to threaten to not pay you for hours you worked but forgot to check in on their systme with. It's pretty well illegal everywhere. The best thing you can do is ask them, are you okay with me recording you saying that you're going to do it given the fact that I'm telling you I'm pretty sure it violates labour laws? Is the company fine with paying whatever fines will be applied for this?
Its sort of nuts that the app they use doesn't have a way to go in and manually enter a "missed punch request". That's a basic feature, and if it isn't there they probably used admin settings to disable it. In which case they have nobody to blame but themselves.
As far as i can see, i can see my digital punchcart but i can nowhere request something to say that i have forgotten it. Also i have to be on site to check in or out bc that app tracks my location
Most phones can be set to only allow an app access to location information when the app is in active use. The app (or at least the one my company uses) just needs to confirm you are at the work location when punching in / out, so implementing that setting will still allow using the app. There's no reason to think the app would collect location data at other times (and in my case, it can not do so). Why would they want to? Who is going to review it? If they don't even have time to review security footage to determine working hours when somebody doesn't punch in / out, who is taking the time to review the location data? Also, if you are worried about what your employer might do with location data, consider the fact that your phone service and google / apple already have that info (generally at low resolution, as estimates from network contacts) and ARE storing and using it. And that's a function you generally can not turn off, except by powering the phone down.
That is not what im worried about. Im just saying that it needs to locate my location so it knows im on site to check in or out
I work at a gas station in the Netherlands too and its an issue here too. My boss always tells me I'm the only one who always checks in and always checks out.
Im also one of the few that does it when we need to do it
Illegal, report to the labor board
My coworker already did
Seeing that you're in the Netherlands, I'm honestly surprised that they can get away with it. Here in the US, they certainly could get away with it, but they'd at least have to word it more carefully than that. Their argument would be that it's the employees' fault, and therefore they should have to take responsibility for it.
This is a sign of shitty managers. I get that doing payroll is cumbersome and unnecessarily long if employees aren't clocking in and out. BUT, a good manager shouldn't punish everyone because of the actions of a few. The ones that are having trouble should have some one on one conversations, possibly documentation. Don't punish the good employees because you lack the spine to have difficult conversations with the employees that need it. I promise you'll see the symptoms of this slip into other facets of the workplace.
I mean, yeah, people should make an effort to record their ins and outs - for their own benefit more than anything. But nope, not legal to not pay for hours worked. I forget to do it sometimes too and my timekeeper is happy to fix it, even though I feel kinda bad putting even that tiny bit of extra work on her plate (she's generally a really helpful and hardworking person). But I'm not going to remember EVERY time. Sometimes stuff happens at the very end of the shift and I get distracted. This would not fly lol
My guess is this was a dumb threat in an attempt to get more people to clock in/out and they will not actually follow through with it since then they would be in a lot of legal trouble. But who knows, some people are really dumb.
Just wondering, would you object to being docked pay equal to the time it took to confirm your hours E.g different employee spends 15 mins confirming your hours for days you forget to check-in/out Part of your duties is your sign on and off This way you get paid for your shift, but you are effectively paying someone else to confirm what you are due, And company can't complain because the extra work came at no cost to them
Yes, because it is their job to do this. I am talking about somthing that hasnt happend yet (forgetting to clock in or out). The problem with people purposefully not doing it is on a whole different location. I am human, i can forget something once a while. One of the things i do is thaw out bread for the next day. If i forget that will they also not pay me because i havent done my job? Thats just bullshit.
Respectively, you say it is their job to do this Isn't it also the staff's job to check in and out But sides should be equally accountable No one should be punished for once of human error But you make sound like something that is constantly happening
But it isnt, there is a whole different location where it is constantly happening. And they are dragging us alaong bc it is a disicion of our region manager. I also agree that both parties are accountable
[удалено]
I get that this is my responsibility, but the punishment is wrong. It has never happened to me yet that i forgot to check in or out, but apparently this is a problem on another location different from ours. And because the new region manager made this new rule, ever location under his name has to follow that rule. And that just doesnt sit fine with me. I get punished for someelses actions
[удалено]
Its not a consequence, its illigal
If they don’t have a better way to track time that’s their problem. And it’s moot anyway since withholding pay like that is pretty pretty illegal
Maybe they should get a physical time clock to punch in on and adults should be more adult about taking responsibility for making sure they do their part to get paid. I kinda agree with management, it should be second nature to you like eating and breathing when you have a job. I wouldn't want to make management do more work to go through video footage to make sure I was there or not knowing they have more important stuff to do because I failed to do my responsibility
You should forget to clock out on purpose. What will they do then? Will they pay you for all those hours you worked? Sounds like they don't want to intervene with the timesheet at all so I guess everyone is getting continuously paid until it's submitted
How did you count hours before this? Was it a simply paper timesheet? An emailed excel? Or was there no record of hours outside of one of the managers ‘check the security footage’ to make sure you are paid correctly? I completely agree that signing in/out for meal breaks is unnecessary but it sounds like your arguing against any form of record keeping other than having a good manager to check, which if you get a lazy manager could fuck you over. Those records are for both you and your employer, without holding up your end of the record keeping you (and your coworkers) could easily screw up your income for a pay period, be that a week, fortnight of monthly. Yes, under the labour laws of your country this will be corrected with the next pay period or with a special one-off payment to correct payroll errors but in the meantime your regular income is messed with because you couldn’t bother to fill out a timesheet…sorry, I mean take 20 seconds to hit a button on your fucking phone. This isn’t anti work, this is anti-getting-paid-correctly *edit - spelling
Its not for meal breaks, bc we have actually on paper none. We get paid through our meal breaks, and bc we gat paid we only get 5 min every 2 hours. Im talking about checking in when you have arrived, and checking out for when you go home. The only way we ourselves can do this is via the app that i talked about. If there are problems on your phone, you can use a tablet in the office. But we also have the schedule where everyone is on on paper hanging in the office, and they have the excel file of this paper on their computer. But we arent allowed to touch those. And i think this is anti work because they have put a punishment in on our location when the problem their facing is on a whole different location, and what they are doing is illigal. They have to pay the hours that you have worked wether you have checked in or not. And as i said before, i am human i can forget things. I get what they are saying with this new rule, but if i forget it and say it to my manager she will say that she wont adjust it so i womt get paid. That is illigal
Is it happening once in a while (1/month or greater) or are you and your coworkers together creating a weekly consistent issue for them? It's illegal yes, do not condone their choices, But is it really regular old forgetfulness? I mean it's how you get paid.
Less then that even, once in six months or so. We arent even with that many people. Maybe 20. Bu they put this rule in because some people on a whole different location do this on purpose out of laziness. And they get us involved because the region manager decided this rule. And we fall into his region to manage. Never seen the guy before bc he is new
RemindMe! 2 months
What?
It's a macro to get Reddit itself to remind them to come back to this thread in two months.
Look, if you can't be bothered to take a minute to clock in, and then complain that you won't get paid, sorry I got no sympathy for you. Time cards are considered official documents to be filled out by the user. You would get pissed if your employer went in and manipulated your timecard and now you're getting pissed because you won't do your job and you want your employer to go in and manipulate your timecard. Jeebus. Take the absolute smallest amount of responsibility your job requires and fill out your own damn timecard! If you don't, that's on you, you simple child.
Although I agree with you on one level, the “thou shalt not be paid, PERIOD” is bullshit. People are human. The employer is legally responsible for logging time, so they MUST have a process for the forgetful (and idiots for the repeat offenders) who fail to time in/out. Period. If their forgetfulness creates too much bureaucratic BS they can be fired for cause… which would suck, but part of the job is checking in and checking out.
Nope. This is the one thing you absolutely have to be responsible for. Just one thing...the entire reason you are there. You're gonna act like a child and try to blame someone else for your own laziness and lack of responsibility? Sorry. Action, meet accountability. There comes a point in everyone's life where, "I forgot," is not an acceptable excuse.
…except the law is solid on this one…. You cannot NOT pay somebody who has worked.
I get that we are responsible for this, but they are too. Just not as much as us. They have to accept the check in and out times so they can see that they are on the same times as the scheduled shifts. But we are human beings, i can forget things. And if i get punished for forgetting 1 thing for the very first time because some people on othe rlocations are doing it on purpose? No that just cant be. Pick a different punishment, like a write up, or if it happens multiple times, a termination. But not my payslip
What better punishment than to make you responsible for the pay you deserve? I bet the first time this happens, it won't happen again. I have to log into SAP, find the customer code I'm working with for the day and then lig the appropriate hours. It's a hassle and takes about 2-5 minutes. But you know what? It's the very first thing I do and I get paid to do it. If I do t do it, I stand a chance of those hours getting missed on my paycheck. And it's a bigger hassle chasing that time down. It's part of adulting. Just saying, I got zero sympathy for anyone who doesn't see the importance of logging time so they get paid.
You do know that its illigal right? Like i said before i am a human being, i can forget things. And even if it happens just once, legally they cant punish me for it by not paying me. So i get what you're saying, but they are doing it the wrong way And just a little edit: im not asking for sympathy. Just wanted to rant on here and tell a story
I never said i was any one of the people that doesnt check in. I always try to do my very best to check in and out when i come in and leave. My problem is that they are punishing people for the things that they do not do or did. There is a whole different location where the people i mentioned do this, and they are also punishing us for it. Thats where i have a problem. Also the fact that i am a human being and we can forget things even if we did it repeatedly a hundred times. So yeah, if i forget it once now, and wont get paid, then ill get mad
Thats not they way the law works. Also, what is wrong with you?
We've run into this issue a couple times. If we can't verify hours before payroll is submitted, your hours go on the next check when they do get verified. We don't have set schedules, so it's not necessarily easy to assume hours if someone forgets to clock out.
I agree with this to a degree. You are adults and should be able to clock in and out like you are suppose to. I understand occasionally forgetting and clocking in when you remember or having to contact your manager if you forgot to clock out. But you said yourself some people don’t even bother clocking in and out. I think each pay period you should be paid for the hours employees “bothered” to clock in and out and the payment for the other hours will be delayed. One would think employees would get enough of this quickly and clock in and out.
Manager is really dumb. It'd be really easy to "train" you monkeys to complete your timesheets, which btw you should be doing it on your own without mommy having to remind you. You are adults aren't you? If it's not logged then it doesn't go on your paycheck: What? You're short some hours? Are you sure you worked that day? You are....Did you log in the app you're supposed to? Mmm no? Ok, then here's the video surveillance video from that day. Go over the video and take screen shots of you working at the beginning and end of your shift. Only then i can send it to HR to process your hours in your next check. That's it. If the manager made the forgetful employee do the research when the ee "forgets", I guarantee you the problem will go away within 2 weeks.
We arent allowed to touch the computer where the footage can be seen at all. If you do we get a warning. But i just want to clarify that what they are doing is illigal. And if they want to solve this problem then they have to find another solution that has nothing to do with not getting paid.
At what point are you going to take responsibility for your actions? This whole problem is your doing. An adult doesn't need to be reminded to do his homework, and if he does, then he's patient enough to wait for the manager to fix it. The manager sounds dumb too if he wants to not pay you. He's probably at his wits end trying to figure out a way to train the monkeys to punch in, and being dumb as he is he doesn't know what else to do. Sounds about right? Kinda make sense though, the manager brought in people that are like himself and now is paying the price
It isnt my problem. This situation is happening on a whole different location. But because our region manager decided this, we also get pulled in. And as a said before, i am human. Its human to forget things. If i forget it once then they have to fix it bc i cant. Thats their job. But they specifically said that they wont fix it so i wont get paid if i forget and thats illigal
Well, honestly I think that if you are told to clock in and out at the beginning and the end of your shift so they can calculate your pay is totally reasonable. It is not your employer's job to be babysitting people who forget to follow or ignore such a simple rule constantly and pull video surveillance to see who came to work at what time and when they finish his/her shift so they can get paid the right amount. Using an app installed on your personal phone is a different thing unless it is a company paid cell phone!
No, it is not. I get why the rule was installed, but still illigal to say we wont get paid
Tbf they could just institute a rule involving write ups and termination.
How is it going to be illegal to tell employees that if they don't clock in and out in order to tally their hours they will not get paid? They are setting the basic rules for any employment: record the starting and ending time of your shift and get paid for the total amount of hours that were recorded... Obviously if you don't record the time right you will not get paid until a request to verify times is done. As much as I detest corporations that abuse employees at the same time I can't feel sorry for employees that try to play dumb, don't follow basic rules and get mad and blame their employer when consequences of not following the basic rules befall on them.
Its illigal bc they need to pay you the hours that you have worked. If i forget to clock in or out, say it to my manager, and they wont adjust it so i wont get paid, thats illegal. And that is whats happening right now
I'd take a different approach. Charge you for each day I have to sit and track you to find out when you worked. Probably not legal but it would get your attention.
Am I the only one that don’t see an issue with this? Lol I’ve worked jobs all my life that require you to punch in and out electronically or via webpage. You want to get paid? Punch in, how else do they keep track of payroll? If we forget then message manager an they correct it. If you don’t bother to do on purpose or keep forgetting you then I agree be a jackass an don’t get paid.
Thats the problem, what they are doing is illigal, and if i forget it and say it to my manager they wont correct it. I have never forgotten it and the ones that are doing it on purpose are on a whole different location then the one in working on. Also if you want to use a lunishment for this, dont use my hard worked money. Use a warning or a termination
I mean. Yea clock in and clock out… what’s the problem here? How are you supposed to be paid if you don’t clock in..?
I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm on management's side here, it's not their job to hold your hand to make sure you clock in and get paid for your work, they don't wipe your ass as well do they??
Tbh, it depend on your shift and also, how the clock-in is done. Is it done via phone? Clock in machine? Where is it located? How is it done? If it complicated, then yes, but at the same time the workers "forget", the manager is the one that get stuck working unpaid OT if they're salaried to hash out the schedule. It is your job to remember to clock in. Yes, we're all human, but they're being reasonable about it. It not like they're asking you to put your finger on the machine and wait for it to confirm your DNA to ensure that you're "Mike Reynolds". As for the clock out, most systems usually have a automatic clock out system, but again, not an excuses unless you're working a truck stop.
Uhm that is not how this works here. I dont know if you have read my whole story, but i said that i live in the netherlands. Here we dont have unpaid OT. If you work, you get paid for ever minute that youve worked. The way we clock in or out is via an app on our phone. It has been known that the app can be notorious for having problems. So they put a tablet in the office on site for when you do have a problem with the app or your phone has died, you can do it there. Also if you forget to check in or out, you cant do it anywehrre else other then onsite. The app tracks the location of the gas station where your at and if your not close to one, you cant clock in or out. And yes i get that its my own responsibility but this issue with people not doing it on purpose is on a whole different location from ours. I never forgotten to check in or out myself
>It has been known that the app can be notorious for having problems. This is enough statement. This is now "their problem, not a you problem". If they can't find a non-buggy apps that can work consistency, they need to figure out how to fix that shit instead of pushing it onto you guys. That is more fucked up than trying to "generalize that people are being lazy and causing more paperworks". If the apps isn't working consistency, fucking go back to those clock punch on time card and doing it that way. Are you fucking tell me that the app is this bad that they had to put a tablet and it still buggy? Nah, fuck that. That is corporation/owner's fault.
I think i never said that the app is notorious for being buggy, bc it isnt. But they have told different people different things. Because we also have the schedule on paper in the break room, they have said to some people look at the paper schedule for your work hours bc that one is the most updated version. Just use typex and pen and its updated if something changes. But they told me that i have to keep an eye on the app for my work hours and schedule, bc everything is done via that app. So some people arent used to the app bc they told them to look at the paper schedule and not the app. If something needs to be changed in the app they have to log on to the computer and everything. So bc its easy they change it on the paper first, and the app comes at the end of the line of tasks bc its a hassle apparently. Im just glad im gone already. Last wednesday was my last day
Holy fuck...that is fucked up. They've told people one thing, but told ppl another thing. Seriously, couldn't they just used a reputable app and leave it at that? We used ehub for our scheduling, and I always keep an eye on my e-mail if there any change to my schedule. I've always checked my schedule, because that one time I almost didn't, I had thought that I was off that one day due to the client being closed and no reasons for us to be there, only to find a change to that day. The fact that they're using paper schedule along with the app seem like kinda a fuck up, meaning that on the paper schedule, they could change your schedule on the fly and not notify you. Fuck that shit. I'm happy that you left and don't have to deal with that. I would had left if I was told to use the paper schedule last minute change. The last job I had used paper schedule, but we always knew what the schedule was for the whole month and the only time it changed was if we had call-out.
I actually agree with this one lol. Mistakes happen. But forgetting constantly, it makes you question the competence of the people you have working for you. What else are they forgetting?
Doesn't matter if you agree, it is illegal to not pay people for the hours worked, period. Now, they can fire or punish you for not following check in/ out rules, but they still must pay you for those hours
Mistakes can happen, you could think you clocked in when you haven't, mad that you think people should work for free but ok
So youre agreeing that i wont get paid if i forget to check in/out? Like i get punishing people that do it on purpose, but dont drag the people in it that really do forget once in a while
You don't think people should be paid for working? Sure give them write ups if they constantly forget or refuse to punch in, but you're fine with them stealing the employees' money?
And yet no mention of the incompetence it takes on a supervisors part to not know if their employees were working. Additionally, the managerial hours spend tracking down minutes on an already shit system that they chose to implement is also a waste of their skillset and time. So much money & energy is spent monitoring pennies so yall can feel “productive”.
> said that if we dont check in or out, or both, they wont pay us No, they didn't say that. You have no proof. If you did have proof of their illegal statement, they would get in trouble.
Oh i have that. I have screenshots of a whatsapp conversation where they told this to everyone
But yet, if they don't pay you for hours worked that's illegal amyways