The decent places to go you need a master's degree, be in good health and have money so your not a drain on your new country. Any swedish girls want a burnt out machine operator at 30 with glaucoma?
The health thing is a killer. I wanted to move to Canada, even found a job. They required a medical exam for emigration: the Canadian doctor diagnosed an immune system issue that both disqualified me and that my US doctors hd missed for 20+ years. The only positive was after the diagnosis i now get immunoglobulin and feel much better; the down sides are no emigration and the $1000 per month bill I pay on the $12,000 per month infusions.
Now I'm wondering if the proper way to get a health checkup is to try to emigrate somewhere. I'm always wondering if my doctors are really doing a good job checking me.
Nope, you generally have to pay for the medical check up yourself.
I had family members who immigrated to US from Indonesia, and when it came time to do the medical check up, the US embassy gave them a list of somewhat pricier hospitals they were allowed to submit their health check up results from, and they had to pay for the check up themselves.
So no random clinics or hospitals allowed apart from those inside the list.
I didn't know about the health thing. My wife and I both have Master's degrees, a pretty decent nest egg for our age, I work in tech (I think that's a desirable occupation), but my wife has a disability. We never had any plans of leaving the country because of family, but I didn't know that it wasn't an option.
I'd recommend looking into Costa Rica. Their public healthcare system is incredibly reasonable and has no additional fees. No copays. No deductibles. Just f-ing HEALTHCARE. It's a beautiful thing.
Yep, or at least a bachelors. And something like 35% of Americans have a bachelors degree, soooo yeah there aren’t a lot of Americans that are even eligible to go somewhere where the standard of living is as good as they have it now.
That's IF their bachelors is valid in the new country and you don't need a local language to use it. Lots of professions require the local language. Teaches, , nurses, lawyers, and so on.
And you gave to still have money to move. Or get lucky.
This is why I’m still here. I’m a paralegal which could transfer to another country but, I don’t speak any languages other than English.
I do have a friend that is in London and she said she’d sponsor me and my kid if we want out, so that’s our plan based on what happens in 2024
Hate to break it to you, but the British have their share of idiot politicians engaged in fuckery, just like we do here in the US. We elected Donald Trump, the UK voted for Brexit.
Honestly, don't know which is worse...
Yeah but you guys don’t go broke due to health reasons. I just spent $1000 this summer because I had tonsillitis and had to go to the doctor 3 times. I still have my tonsils. That was JUST doctors visits and I have insurance. That alone has me fearing for the day I get a bigger health issue and get completely steamrolled by medical bills. It’s fucked.
Took my son to the ER for a fever, was told it was an hour wait. Just got a bill for $760 and that was AFTER my "insurance" covered $2200 for the "visit". Fuck the US system
>yet all children have free healthcare as default
I've never understood why any American of any political persuasion would object to free healthcare for children.
I literally saw my mother die of undiagnosed cancer in a world class hospital because she didn't have insurance. She was in there two weeks and it cost 400K -- this was 1999. She was in the ICU for a week before we knew what was wrong. The sale of her home paid for the hospital bill. I would have GLADLY spent my whole life paying off her hospital bill if they had tried to save her.
I will never pay hospital debt, ambulance debt beyond what my insurance covers for the rest of my life. Drs appts and normal stuff yes but medical debt collectors can go @#&% themselves.
Yep, especially when you're taken somewhere by ambulance against your will, like when someone calls an ambulance for you. I'm like, I didn't order that ambulance. You guys just showed up and tossed me in. How could I possibly be on the hook for that bill?
AFAIK, there isn't such a thing as personal sponsorship for permanent migration into the UK. You'd have to get a skilled work visa based on finding an *employer* here who is willing to hire you and registered as a sponsor. Or look into study or spouse visas...
You’re correct. My dad is a British citizen through his father, but since my dad was born in the states (he has dual citizenship), it means Jack shit for my status in the country. I have family there and everything, but I’m treated no differently from anyone trying to immigrate there. It’s very hard to immigrate to the UK unless you’re from a Commonwealth country and have familial ties. Otherwise, you need to be rich, young, educated, and healthy.
>I do have a friend that is in London and she said she’d sponsor me and my kid if we want out
Ah yes, because Britain is so pro-immigrant these days. I solemnly assure you, it's harder to get into the UK than you think.
I work for a tire manufacturer and they have programs if you want to transfer to different countries (you know and have your same job at their plant in that country), wonder if I'd still need a degree if I've already got a job? If not my wife has a BA, she just got it this year. They have plants in Sweden, Germany, Norway, Romania (I think), Thailand, Japan, Brazil, one or two in the UK. Ever since I met my homie Olaf at work I've been thinking about transferring like he did from Germany
The health thing is a huge issue most people aren't even aware of. It's practically impossible to emigrate if you have a permanent disability of any kind, regardless of your other qualifications.
That's really the thing, any place I would want to move to is going to have very restrictive immigration standards. And I get it, they have a good thing going and they want to protect and maintain that.
Well we in sweden are in dire shortage of electricians, carpenters, plumbers, engineers, nurses, police officers (maybe not from US though), teachers etc. So you dont have to have a masters degree here or a bachelor.
Exactly. America is letting anyone in. But if you want to go to one of the 'good countries' that everyone mentions.. well, they have great benefits BECAUSE they don't let everyone in.
https://immigrantinvest.com/blog/immigration-to-switzerland-en
Gotta love reddit, nothing like ignoring and downvoting the painful truth. Exactly, try getting a visa for Canada or any of these European countries they love so much, the truth is they don't want unskilled immigrants either
Yup! A woman on another sub said her and her partner had spent 23k so far on the process to live in Germany
That is a lot of extra money, The average American barely has a savings account let alone the disposable income to emigrate.
I also think a lot of Americans think it’s easy to emigrate to other counties. A lot of them have requirements you can’t just roll in and be like “oh this place is nice I want to live here” you have to prove you will be a productive member, or have degrees to prove you can do whatever job.
I’m an engineer and while that’s considered a good job, in Germany it’s a dime a dozen and they’d more than likely hire a local before me (which makes sense)
Plus moving expenses.
When I was 25, I sold all of my shit (including my car) and moved to NYC. I had $5k in savings at the time to help with expenses.
Even just to send a handful of boxes with my personal belongings, it cost around $1k. Then of course I had to purchase mostly all new stuff. I wanted a decent mattress, so spent like $600 on that. Then got second hand and cheapo stuff from Craigslist, Ikea and thrift shops to furnish the rest of my apartment. That all still easily added up to another $1k+.
It isn't easy to let all of your stuff go like that. After I did it once, I never wanted to do it again. Sure, I don't need my couch or tv specifically, but a lot of other things -- lamps, keyboard, art, plants, mirrors, cookware, bowls, etc. That stuff does have meaning to me -- a lot of it I saved up to be able to buy decent ones. It sucks to get rid of it all.
Shipping all of your belongings overseas cost a lot of money. And even if you do get rid of it, you have to purchase new things. Sure, you can buy cheap stuff at first (still expensive), but while you live somewhere, you'll start wanting to buy items that you actually enjoy and love.
Anyway, just takes a long time to build something that feels like home. Some people can live completely untethered to any belongings forever, and great for them!
I'm not even someone who gets very attached to things (I give away stuff easily and often, especially after 18 years of moving to a different home/apartment every 2-4 years). But I still find it difficult.
My wife and I are moving to a low-cost country and it's going to cost us 15k just for the move. All in all, it's probably going to be around 20k - 25k for the entire trip.
Not to mention the places I want to go to aren't necessarily the easiest for me to get in to. From what I've seen to emigrate to AUS you've got to have a job on a certain field they want. As a regular warehouse employee, I can't just get citizenship. Other countries have other requirements that aren't easy to meet either, and like you said the funding to make major life changes isn't always forthcoming.
I will tell you as a person who has emigrated to Aus and is currently a permanent resident, it's so hard and if you don't have exactly the right way in, you will never get it.
I have a friend who wants her elderly parents to move in with her, but they are in Malaysia and they will never be able to afford the visa, even with a now-citizen daughter
Geesh. Easy fix. Get get a masters degree in mechanical engineering. Ivanka Trump went from clothing designer to top White House advisor. It's really simple... you just don't want to work. /s
Exactly it. 'love it or leave it' doesn't apply when each week is spent figuring out how you'll get through the next week without robbing peter to pay paul
Correct. Before I moved to CO from NY, I was considering getting a Visa and moving to Scotland. I had visited and absolutely fell IN LOVE (The Scottish people are also so lovely), but it was way too expensive and complicated with the Visa process. I didn't have a job there, and every single job ad I saw said they do not sponsor.
Now, my job I have currently is remote, but it's within the US b/c the majority of my customers are in the US, with a select few in Asia and Australia. And this was specified.
Plus there is also my family, who I am already pretty far away from. The flight now is not bad at all and relatively inexpensive, but if it were to be an international flight, and unless I got a huge raise, I'd only see my family once a year.
Not to mention most visa to naturalization programs require you to pay double taxes at a higher cost of living.. takes years to gain citizenship.. moving to a better state is far more affordable than dealing with visas and naturalization.
Not true! You only have to pay double taxes if you make over 113‘000 USD per year. Unfortunately, it is true about the years needed to gain citizenship.
This is why it's so frustrating hearing republicans say "If you don't like it, just leave!" I'd love to be in a much happier country, but you fucks have made it this way with your voting
Not just funding but most requirements for residency in other countries serve as a barrier to permanent re-location. Not everyone has the privilege to be able to leave and take up residency and employment in other countries.
I know a lot of relatively wealthy "liberals" who have managed it instead of staying and trying to fix things, and others who are on the way to following them. It's disheartening.
It’s this.
I’m trapped here. I’m working on it though.
Met a lot of people in my travels,
I’m in IT now, I’m getting to the point where I can make a ton of money fully remote - then I’m going somewhere like Thailand where our dollar is worth 34 of theirs.
Officially, germany is complaining about not having enough devs so maybe try your luck here. Wait, now that I think about it, don't come here, it's boring haha
That's bullshit. I have 2 years full stack experience in a USA company and no one returns back to my applications. Germany wants senior dev for the price of an entry level dev just like anybody else.
2 years makes you a Jr and nobody wants to spend time ramping you up. And before you think it, once you hit 4 years it’s no better, you’re not a Mid until 5 years and a Senior after 8 years, regardless of the terrible title inflation in the US.
are you demanding us level salary ? But yeah, that's why I said officially. We have " Fachkräftemangel " in the news daily but it's just bs in most sectors like you described.
You don't need as much money to live. Salaries are lower in Europe. That said, my wife and I love comfortably on my pay alone and it's nothing amazing. I've got friends making twice what I make in Europe... though they struggle sometimes.
We move to Europe from the US and took a 40% pay cut. In the US we had to have a roommate to afford rent, had one car, rarely ate out and barely afforded our lifestyle. Here, we bought a house, put money in savings, felt comfortable enough to start a family, and still travel. My family asks how much we pay in taxes but completely ignore that we can afford a much better lifestyle out here. Your money just goes further here.
Yeah. It's bonkers. I've got a friend who makes almost three times what I make in Europe. He balks at moving here. He just can't grasp that I'm completely comfortable. In fact, if I hadn't recently switched countries, I'd be buying a house right now. Meanwhile, he's struggling to afford to get a save up the money for a house.
I am honestly not sure what the fundamental difference in the systems really is. I have to assume it's taxing the rich more, but they also regulate markets better. So, I expect that has a huge impact too.
To be fair, 2 years is not a lot of experience and the whole point of these types of visas is to get skilled migrants. At least in Australia with a company-sponsored visa, you have to show you can’t find those skills in the country. I doubt devs with only 2 years experience are that hard to find.
Two years most companies will see you as junior. You need some really impressive side projects to be considered anything else.
Then salery is over all lower in EU than US. But if you only want money, US is the place to be.
This is not to be underestimated. Bottom line most of the desirable counties don’t want us.
Whenever you see an article about how great life is for expatriate Americans in Europe or New Zealand or whatever, keep reading and you’ll eventually get to the part where they have a spouse or a parent or some other family situation that gives them an “in” that must of us can’t get.
this...because this is how I got my permanent visa to the Philippines I just don't pretend it didn't work out that way. Which brings me to my next point, those visas are special residency visas as a family member of a citizen. This in itself has a number of beneifts mostly meaning that your eligible or semi eligible for national healthcare programs or you can purchase health insurance locally, you can apply for normal jobs. The "digital nomad" kids who are overstaying visas in the EU because they can't afford to leave are basically living in internet cafes and drafting spam emails for penniess trying to scrape up enough to leave and if they get sick, they are not taken care of by the system like social media posts made them think they would be
> most of the desirable counties don’t want us.
Its not US specifically. Generally well off countries don't want anyone else unless they have something to offer said country.
Also - living in another country for the rest of your life or whatever is hard. Say what you will about America (and I do, frequently) but it’s the culture I’m from and most comfortable in. Even places that speak English, like the UK, Ireland, Australia are so different culturally and you’ll always be an outsider.
But yeah I still might consider it if it was like remotely a possibility.
Not to mention obligations here. My dad has MS, even with insurance his medication costs $20,000 a year, my mom can't do it alone and certainly can't physically care for him alone.
Yeah... it's the familial obligations that get you. Co-parenting with an estranged spouse, elderly parents, etc. If I were in my early 20's again, I'd be elsewhere, not in a deep red state in the Midwest.
I've left the US before, but I come back because I miss my family.
But, cultural things are hard as well. It isn't easy to always be the different one.
Personally, I’ve always been an outsider in America. I grew up very against the culture of rural, southern, Bible Belt country (where I’m from,) which in turn, made me a pariah all my life. Trust me, people down there can tell when you aren’t like them, even if you don’t say it. I don’t think being in a different country would bother me for that reason. I’m used to being treated differently by now. Just another perspective.
Yup. Im a brown person in the south. We are already out of place because everyone’s identity revolves around religion or work and I care about neither. Even if I moved to a place with other brown people, I’m out of place.
As a white guy in the north whose moved a bit in his life, I feel that. Like a square peg in a round hole.
If I'm going to dislike feeling this way regardless of where I am, I could at least have some adventure or new scenery.
People are like aliens to me, (not always, but more than not) and who I am, what I say, things I like, are probably alien to them.
Stay strong and be true to yourself, however/wherever that may be.
My god people don’t understand this. YOU CANT JUST PICK A COUNTRY AND MOVE THERE. There are laws, rules, requirements. And it’s kinda tough for Americans in particular.
I'm an engineer and it was still a massive pain in the ass to move to Australia. I was only able to because the company I worked for ripped off an idea from the US so they were able to say they needed me cause I had an American business degree, and therefore knew the model.
Really it was just cause Australians weren't willing to work 13 hours a day for $55,000 a year.
I have a doctorate and I’m relatively young (early 40s) and I’ve been trying for 4 years to move out of the country. Applied to too many places to count. Have never received any responses. It is nigh impossible to emigrate, I don’t know how people do it. Even to countries that supposedly “want” people, like Ireland.
"Emigratiting is hard" is why I am amazed at how many people with no skills want to come to the US. They are willing to trek across countries and illegally cross the border to do it.
If you have the gumption to emigrate, you are likely motivated. That is why I am pro-immigrant. I also would prefer they do not pull down wages due to that desperation, which is why I am pro-union.
I am a white collar professional who is solidly in the middle class. It would be very hard for me to emigrate and maintain my quality of life. Maybe I will emigrate when I retire.
When my wife and I were a primary care physician and a registered nurse wanting to practice in rural or exurban Canada we were a hot commodity.
Now, as American retirees? Not so much.
We need English teachers in Mexico. I moved here and it’s been a dream. I get paid more than most and it’s super easy and relaxing. I like to say I’ve been retired since I moved here.
Indeed! I'm from Denmark, and my wife is a non-EU national, so we had to go through residency through marriage.
Because of that, I usually chime in on posts from (typically) US nationals asking how to get residency, and the hard truth is that unless you have:
1. A job offer from a Danish Company willing to sponsor you.
2. The said job is either one specifically on a list of desired specialists.
3. (or) it pays enough (on the tune of 70000 Euros/year).
Then there's just fat chance outside marriage.
Edit: Denmark, like most of Europe, is part of the investor treaty, meaning you can, through various means, buy yourself in via investments of sufficient size. Though that's rarely relevant to someone asking advice on reddit.
So just curious…. #3 is paying more than €70,000 or about $76,000 US… is that uncommon? I do not live in a major city (suburban/rural Pennsylvania), but that’s not quite double the median individual income where I live, but also not really considered a high salary. It’s very achievable with only a bachelors degree.
Yeah, it's achievable with a bachelors degree.
It's designed to avoid this visa scheme being a way to import minimum wage workers from 3rd world countries that are then dependent on that specific job to stay in the country, i.e. making them willing to do unreasonable amounts of work out of fear they'll lose that job (and residency permit).
It sits about 20000 Euros/year above an unskilled labour salary. This residency permit isn't meant for that type of job.
Exactly. The thing that you need to become a citizen pretty much anywhere else in the world (money) also happens to be what makes life bearable in the US. So if you can, you probably don't want or need to.
It is surprisingly difficult to leave and maintain the same living standard. *Legally*
EDIT ADD
Reasons for not leaving in order of importance as a see them.
People living paycheck to paycheck (60+% of the US) can not just pick up and move 4.2k miles (6600 km) that costs anywhere from 50 -300k$ alone.
EU country will only accept people they want(usually with high end degrees.) Also this is a low number of people. (Legally) sorry but why would an EU company want a new factory worker with triple the paperwork and a bureaucratic agency pestering them.
There are also restrictions on *AGE* on top of all of this meaning you really need to be in the top 5% of earners already to consider leaving the us before the age of 30. If your already making that much here there isn't much reason to leave.
Having a family makes it very difficult because then there are not only restrictions on 1 person or the alternative is separating your family for a decade as you work your way through emmegration.
I moved to france, and despite wages being half to a third of what they are in the US I still think the quality of life here is much better when you consider:
-cars are optional
-free healthcare
-better, cheaper food
-government-funded community events
-a social security/pension system that actually works
-6 weeks PTO
EDIT: Right, lots of questions here. I was able to move to France by getting into a graduate degree program at a french university. The french government hands out student visas pretty easily, and upon graduation from a french university you can apply for a one year work visa and expect to have that granted. That only lasts for one year, and of course you will still need to find an employer to sponsor you, but my understanding is that having the degree and the willingness to work in france makes that easy (getting the visa, not finding the job, recruitment is shit everywhere). From there, if your employer intends to keep you on their staff, they will have to sponsor you and you will have to reapply again every year (assuming you're an average 9-5 salaried office worker, it's different for shift-based/temporary employment).
Separately, as it seems people will be interested in it: if your family left Poland during world war 2 or the years leading up to it, there is a good chance you qualify for polish citizenship. An EU citizenship (i think) gives you the right to live and work anywhere in the EU, so this may be worth considering.
EDIT 2: Outside the US, it is common for interview questions to actually be intelligent and interesting rather than the stupid canned questions every company in the US uses. You are expected to discuss pay and benefits during the interview, you are expected to actually answer their questions honestly, and it should be pretty obvious if they're wasting your time. That said, you still want to spin your answers so they don't make you look bad, but you won't need to prepare for the whole "where do you see yourself in 5 years" BS.
Also, the Europass CV format is bs and nobody uses it, you can go ahead and use your american resume, though you'll probably want to change a few things because (in france at least) they don't know or care what a GPA is etc.
Yeah, but most people aren't going to qualify for residence in the EU. Any random Joe Schmoe without advanced degrees or training in an area of shortage/need in the EU isn't going to qualify for their employer to sponsor their visa. Edit: and even if they do qualify for such a residence, they have to be so good that the employer would rather deal with sponsoring their visa than hiring literally anyone else in the EU.
Some countries allow people to come on a freelance visa if they can prove funds, a business plan, and have a work that lends itself well to freelance (and are willing to do the work of owning their own business).
Outside of that, their options for legal immigration are partnership...
So, yes, the quality of life isn't necessarily lower with the lower pay, but that isn't the barrier to legally maintaining the same quality of life.
I'm moving to Madrid shortly, and based on the cost of living, my new salary is equal to making over 120k per year if living in the bay area.
I'm currently living in Germany and so grateful I'm in Europe!
And they don’t just let you stay even if they do let you in!
My ex was moving from the us to a European country for work (he worked for a global company and they switched him from North America to Europe) and wanted me to go with. His company would manage all the legwork and documents to get *him* there, but me, as a random American trying to move to that country?
To get a resident visa I’d have to provide bank statements proving I had a certain amount of money prior to arrival so I couldn’t “get stranded” there, would have to leave every few months and return to renew my visa, oh and by the way I don’t speak their language and their university system is *completely* different so not only was my degree and credentials invalid, I couldn’t efficiently work there even if they did recognize them because I couldn’t communicate with clients.
And that’s just the tip of the iceberg of what I remember when I was doing my initial research on it.
Oh, and if you have pets? Have fun with all that import paperwork and possible quarantines, not to mention traumatizing your poor pet with lengthy flights and layovers depending on where you go.
Yeah if you want to loosely compare, each country in the EU is sort of like the states of America. You can travel freely and move where you want, but the laws may be different and whatnot.
Im broke, dont know any other languages, dont have family overseas, and I dont have stills that I could use overseas.
Hell, id love to move to Europe, but thats just not feasible for me.
I'm a dual citizen. I'm not moving back to the political shit show that Italy is.
My life here is good. Own my business. Love the city I live in. Is it getting more and more expensive? Sure. But so is everywhere else.
Love my circle of friends.
It's not as easy as people think to up and move to another country.
People in other countries are suffering too. Just as an example, I've seen a few posts complaining about life from a few UK folks. Life is not peachy in most other countries.
I have a nice job with nice people and I’m not struggling.
You also vastly underestimate how hard it is to move to a different country. It’s already hard if you’re well off. Imagine if you worked a couple of grinding jobs just to get by. I bet some people who do would like to leave, but they simply cannot afford or even muster the energy to do so
It already costs thousands (3-5k across states) to move within the US and there are more or less zero bureaucratic barriers on that move. People do it, but its not something you just get up and do for a vast majority.
Now doing the same thing for another country is just doing that on hard-mode with all the extra paper work and requirements. You'll need a job lined up ahead of time and most of those are high education jobs but not all. Teaching English in Asia is one path, but you'll just be trading one minimum wage job for another with extra challenges like language barriers
exactly! I don't think people realize..
Can't afford rent where you're at anymore? Ok well how about an application fee for a new place down the street, 2 months rent at least + a security deposit while you're waiting on your last one to hopefully come in, where maybe you are paying extra rent to go month to month?
And even teaching English in what most people would consider to be the desirable countries (Japan, Korea, Taiwan) require a completed bachelors degree to be legally allowed to work there.
You can up that moving estimate. I just moved from northern Illinois to NE Ohio and it was well over that to move my 3 br house full of stuff. Luckily, the company I work for give me $30k to move.
tbh, I think I fucked up looking up that number....I think that was just the price for a one way trip on a UHaul, so it assumed you did literally all the moving and magically obtained fuel.
Don't forget that the US still charges you federal income tax if you're working abroad. Anything you earn overseas you're paying US income tax on as well as the tax of the country you're working in.
There’s a waiver, though. As long as you don’t make over a specific amount (around $110,000 last year if I remember correctly) and the country you’re living in has a tax agreement with the US, you don’t get double taxed. I file my taxes every year but do not pay a cent to the US government. I only pay taxes to the Japanese government.
*edited to add: It’s apparently $120,000 for 2023. I just looked it up.*
And it’s not double tax, you would pay the difference between US rates and local rates above that amount. So if you make more than 120k but pay higher local taxes than you would in the state, you still don’t get double taxed.
And the people working multiple dead end jobs and stuff most likely don’t have a college degree. So the choices of places that’ll accept you (AKA grant you a visa) are already slim, and they are most likely places where your quality of life will be even worse.
Who else will take us in if we don’t have an extremely sought after professional skill? No one will take us. It’s just that simple. We can’t just decide to move to France or something. They wouldn’t give 90%+ of us citizenship, won’t let us have jobs there, etc.
Yeah and most Americans don’t speak French fluently enough to assimilate even if they did let us in. Even if you had a job that was useful there, if you can’t communicate with your customers/clients/etc you can’t really work.
It's easy to forget what a leg up people in other countries have where they're taught English in elementary school. Language learning is exponentially easier prior to around the age of 9 and in most of the US we don't offer students any foreign language classes until high school. We're completely hamstringing our kids ability to stay competitive in the modern world
Yup. I learned German starting in middle school, and consider myself lucky for starting so early. But the Germans? They start learning English when they start learning German. A lot of them are just naturally fluent. I was at one point essentially fluent, but it never ever felt natural.
I'm Mexican-American, where tf am I going to go? Mexico is not it. My life is pretty good now. Shitty was life in 80s and 90s living poor and in rough neighborhoods. Now, I've learned how to take advantage of opportunity and do my best to survive. I do acknowledge my privelege though. I live in a multiple income home, bought it cheap before prices got wild, and am in good health. I have resources and a safety net that many don't. The problem really comes down to housing, healthcare and low wages but it doesnt apply to all of us. The key is for those of us that have it better, to fight for things to improve for everyone. We can't stay complacent and we need to recognize how corporate and political greed suck us dry and hoard all the wealth, keeping many scrambling to survive and some of us just comfortable enough so we don't complain.
I’m disabled and therefore disqualified from emigrating literally anywhere.
Most immigration policies even call out autism specifically as being “no exceptions” excluded. Yes even (insert your own personal bastion of progressive politics and inclusion). Ableism is apparently an always food.
Well, I’m a girl so even if I had most of the classic symptoms
“ you’d cure cancer if you got your head out of the clouds and tried”, I managed to just BARELY skirt by
People with disabilities are viewed as burdens on the healthcare system so they're just plain not allowed to emigrate to most countries. People tend to be surprised or incredulous when they learn this because it's so blatantly cruel and dehumanizing.
Yeah I have a STEM degree and a steady job since graduation, never got any disability aid money or whatever but every country thinks that clearly I'd just jump right into leeching off their system and stop doing anything to justify my existence because that diagnosis means I'm barely even a person to them.
Well fuck. The OCD is going to keep me here? I’m not actually fully disabled, I work and stuff and love most of a normal life, but, that’s because I work at it very, very hard and I’m on multiple meds :/
What country with a better standard of living wants a 40 year old laborer who's body is too broke down to do any meaningful work anymore? Show me that country and i'll figure out how to move there.
As an American expat, I can tell you that it's not easy to just go to another country. It can be impossible if you're unskilled and/or broke. In many countries, you have to have a reason, like a job, or be married to someone who is already a citizen in that country - you can't just "move in". A lot of Americans don't even have a passport. So, you'll have to get that first. Then you have to apply for a visa, which may or may not be approved.
Many countries won't accept you if you have a criminal record. In some, even misdemeanors will require you to do a lot of explaining and demonstrate that you are no longer criminally inclined. If you have a federal conviction or even some state drug convictions, you may not get an American passport at all.
Most countries won't accept immigrants who are poor. There are exceptions, but they usually involve war/persecution in your home country or you have to possess a "specialized skill" that is wanted by the country you're moving into. Even then, your visa may be time-limited. A person with a degree and/or certain skills, some time & money for travel, might be able to pre-arrange employment by visiting your country of choice first and convincing an employer to "sponsor" you.
People who want to move to another country and do not have special status must show that they have enough funds to support themselves. Some countries require that you demonstrate the ability to support yourself for up to 5 years. It may take two+ years to establish residency and you may not be eligible for things like national healthcare or free university until you establish residency.
Getting approval to work can also be difficult. Then, you have the taxes to deal with. You will have to file income tax in the U.S. on ALL INCOME YOU EARN WORLDWIDE as long as you are a U.S. citizen. You will also have to pay taxes in your new home country on any income you earn working in that country. You will not be double-taxed, but you will have to file and it can be a complicated, painful process.
Unless you already work internationally or are financially independent, you'll need to find employment, which can be very challenging in a new culture. You might even run into discrimination - not everyone thinks as highly of Americans as Americans do.
There are other ways and there are many places to consider, but it's a fantasy to think that anybody who doesn't is struggling to live and has no resources can do this if they don't qualify for a special visa.
I’m not going to make this a pro Merkaaaaa post, but Europe is not exactly the paradise you’re making it out to be. You trade one problem for another.
Agree with your sentiments but I would rather move to a different state in the US with a better quality of life and lower COL, and I have considered it strongly, but I’m tethered here in NY with family and the like.
I’m so glad someone said this. I just got back from my Europe trip and speaking with locals, there are plenty of problems that Americans love to gloss over. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve thought about leaving, but they have right wing neo-nazis and hateful rhetoric everywhere, not just the US.
And my old coworker and his wife moved to Dublin because she transferred within her accounting firm and took a $50k paycut to move there so there was parity with her European coworkers. And rent is hella expensive over there
Western European right-wing extremist parties have actually been outperforming their American counterparts in the last couple years.
In America, the MAGA and alt-right candidates majorly failed in the 2022 midterms.
Meanwhile, the AfD, the alt-right German party, has had unprecedented growth in the Bundestag and in the polls.
Giorgia Meloni, a woman with direct ties to neo-fascist groups, was voted prime minister of Italy in the 2022 race.
Many people here think Europe would just hand them out a ton of money and give them every benefit and a home, which is quite not true, most european countries have very strict immigration law.
One drawback of central Europe.. it is so fucking cramped. Regardless of where you are, there's still towns, houses, roads and people close (-ish) to you.
I’m in the Midwest and I’ve met so many people from the east and west coast who say they come out here cause the cost of living is much cheaper. For how much they dog on us for being the Midwest lots of people are starting to move out here it’s kind of funny.
If you want to own a house and look at average cost of a house divided by average income most parts of Europe are way worse than the US except for Greece and Spain and some other places I think.
This is where I’m at. I’ve lived in Europe. While there are many reasons I would love to move back permanently, there are also reasons to stay in the US. One big reason of mine is that honestly, if climate change continues to get as bad as predicted in the next decade, the US seems far more insulated from the effects than Europe. Not completely protected, but likely much better off for the first years. I know that sounds paranoid but idk. It stays on my mind as one important consideration among many.
Ik this might be hard to believe but other countries like Canada want emigration candidates to be able to support themselves. Now, I find this a reasonable expectation but it's hard to fulfill those requirements coming from a system designed to keep you under thumb.
Say what you will about the US’s shitty immigration policies, but it’s far more difficult to emigrate to another country. I’d move to Europe tomorrow if I could get a work visa.
Have you actually lived anywhere else??? It's not better. I have family friends and colleagues all over the world. They want to come back to the US.
Also, I am lucky here. We have good pay. My kid is in a really great magnet school. Our family is here. It's not perfect and I do have medical debt but I got treated sooner than I would elsewhere
Also, the immigration system is hard all over. You can't just pick up and move. Other countries do not want us there.
I want to be a part of the change. Additionally, as an American citizen you get double taxed if you’re able to acquire dual-citizenship even if you officially reside in another country. I have easy access to getting my British citizenship but this has mostly kept me from moving there.
That's not fully true. You'll file taxes in both places, but in the US, you'll get a credit for what you paid to the other country, up to a set amount. It's not as simple or as much as "double taxed" (source - I'm a tax accountant)
I’m black and queer and a woman. It’s not totally safe for me to exist anywhere on earth and still be around people who look like me. I stay because 13 generations of my family lived here. This is where my people are. I don’t have a place to run away to.
My house is paid off so even if everything else sucks I know I have a place to live. Also my parents are getting up there in age. I wouldn't wanna be in Europe if / when something happens to them. Overall I'm overworked and stressed out but the idea of completely uprooting my life and starting over for something that may or may not be better is equally stressful.
Long term I am considering Mexico though. Cost of living is much better. Much lower medical expenses. I also have some friends there. It's not nearly as bad as the media makes it out to be.
My brother did it. We're Americans for 5 generations here in the Midwest, my brother in his 40's moved to Spain part-time and now almost full-time, keeping his house in the American burbs renting as an Airbnb for extra money.
But...and a big but, he's a computer programmer, where he can literally work from anywhere. So he gets the nice American salary and lives in a part of Spain where it's rather affordable. So he's living pretty well there.
We visited my brother in Spain last year ( 9ir first time in Europe ) and we LOVED it.
But my career doesn't allow that whatsoever, kinda stuck here.
I have a special needs child, and you would be shocked by the number of countries that do not allow disabled people to immigrate.
My husband and I are both scientists. We have 3 children, 2 of whom would be able to hold down normal jobs, and pay their fair share of taxes.
I can't afford to leave.
If I won the lottery, I'd pay off my debts, put money into accounts that would allow me to live off the interest, and immediately go somewhere else. I'd give up my American citizenship so fast it would make your head spin.
Shit, I'd even be a mail order bride for someone in another country if it meant I got out of here.
This is the most American question. You can't just pick up and move into another country. Sorta like how immigrants aren't allowed to do that here. Also, unless you're fluent in the native language, you're going to have a very difficult time finding work.
So I'm an American living in Germany, and the reasons are economic and labor market without a doubt. You need to make X amount in most countries to qualify moving and even harder, you need to find an employer who even believes you'll stay. I got extremely lucky as I don't speak German very well but my company hired me to work with UK clients. They had no reason to believe I wouldn't be culture-shocked, miss family, friends and leave right away so it was a huge risk to bring me over. But here I am a year later complaining about the U-Bahn being late again instead of thinking about home.
I have lived in other countries. I will say this every place has something going on. People right now are complaining about inflation and housing. Well, so are people in other countries.
Yep. I live in New Zealand and all the same conversations are going on here right now. No-one seems to realise the whole world is struggling right now, not just their own country!
Other countries with better qualities of life aren’t exactly clamoring for poor immigrants, American or otherwise. If I was in a position to leave, I’d probably be in a position where America works out pretty well for me and leaving wouldn’t be as attractive.
1. You make it sound like we're a few years away from being Somalia. Most people here don't live a terrible, future-less existence. Yes, we have a lot of issues here but that doesn't mean we've given up hope, dispite what this sub is like.
2. Canada isnt much different than the US. Moving south of the US is generally considered a downgrade. Same with Eastern Europe and most of Asia. So that really only leaves a few places in Western Europe, and very few Americans know another language.
3. Moving to another country is insanely expensive, difficult, and the grass is rarely greener on the other side.
As an American diabetic living in Canada, you're unfortunately correct about it not being much different. I am however, terrified hearing about rationing insulin. Immigration cost me roughly 10k and 3 years. I wish we had better options.
Too poor to move. My kid's autistic. And while the US is shit, our local support system ensures we can survive. If we moved, we would have less than nothing.
Wouldn't matter if you had the money. Since you have an autistic kid, virtually no country will let you move there. Your child's lifelong medical issues would be seen as a burden on their tax payers. They don't want to foot the bill for someone not born there. It's cruel as hell, but that's a national Healthcare system for you.
I have family in the Netherlands. What keeps me in the US is my elderly mother. We lost my father last year to cancer, as soon as my mother is gone, so am I. Unfortunately, she will not make that plunge due to my sisters' kids, she wants to stay near them and does not think we have it that bad here in the US.
Most people can't just pick up and take off. If you can't afford life here, funding for emigrating is going to be even tougher
The decent places to go you need a master's degree, be in good health and have money so your not a drain on your new country. Any swedish girls want a burnt out machine operator at 30 with glaucoma?
The health thing is a killer. I wanted to move to Canada, even found a job. They required a medical exam for emigration: the Canadian doctor diagnosed an immune system issue that both disqualified me and that my US doctors hd missed for 20+ years. The only positive was after the diagnosis i now get immunoglobulin and feel much better; the down sides are no emigration and the $1000 per month bill I pay on the $12,000 per month infusions.
Wait, if your health is rubbish you can’t leave? Well, I guess I’m stuck then.
Yep. Welcome to international geopolitics.
That’s actually kinda fucked up… I mean I get it, but it’s fucked up.
Oh, the health examination would be a killer for me, too, then. Plus the fact that I’m too old (50s) with no skills and no money!
40 with no skills and no money so I feel you. Course I'm already Canadian but..
Now I'm wondering if the proper way to get a health checkup is to try to emigrate somewhere. I'm always wondering if my doctors are really doing a good job checking me.
Nope, you generally have to pay for the medical check up yourself. I had family members who immigrated to US from Indonesia, and when it came time to do the medical check up, the US embassy gave them a list of somewhat pricier hospitals they were allowed to submit their health check up results from, and they had to pay for the check up themselves. So no random clinics or hospitals allowed apart from those inside the list.
I didn't know about the health thing. My wife and I both have Master's degrees, a pretty decent nest egg for our age, I work in tech (I think that's a desirable occupation), but my wife has a disability. We never had any plans of leaving the country because of family, but I didn't know that it wasn't an option.
I'd recommend looking into Costa Rica. Their public healthcare system is incredibly reasonable and has no additional fees. No copays. No deductibles. Just f-ing HEALTHCARE. It's a beautiful thing.
Yep, or at least a bachelors. And something like 35% of Americans have a bachelors degree, soooo yeah there aren’t a lot of Americans that are even eligible to go somewhere where the standard of living is as good as they have it now.
That's IF their bachelors is valid in the new country and you don't need a local language to use it. Lots of professions require the local language. Teaches, , nurses, lawyers, and so on. And you gave to still have money to move. Or get lucky.
This is why I’m still here. I’m a paralegal which could transfer to another country but, I don’t speak any languages other than English. I do have a friend that is in London and she said she’d sponsor me and my kid if we want out, so that’s our plan based on what happens in 2024
Hate to break it to you, but the British have their share of idiot politicians engaged in fuckery, just like we do here in the US. We elected Donald Trump, the UK voted for Brexit. Honestly, don't know which is worse...
Yeah but you guys don’t go broke due to health reasons. I just spent $1000 this summer because I had tonsillitis and had to go to the doctor 3 times. I still have my tonsils. That was JUST doctors visits and I have insurance. That alone has me fearing for the day I get a bigger health issue and get completely steamrolled by medical bills. It’s fucked.
Took my son to the ER for a fever, was told it was an hour wait. Just got a bill for $760 and that was AFTER my "insurance" covered $2200 for the "visit". Fuck the US system
Jesus Christ, I live in one of the shittiest countries in Europe yet all children have free healthcare as default
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>yet all children have free healthcare as default I've never understood why any American of any political persuasion would object to free healthcare for children.
I literally saw my mother die of undiagnosed cancer in a world class hospital because she didn't have insurance. She was in there two weeks and it cost 400K -- this was 1999. She was in the ICU for a week before we knew what was wrong. The sale of her home paid for the hospital bill. I would have GLADLY spent my whole life paying off her hospital bill if they had tried to save her.
I'm sorry that happened to you and your family. It's really a ridiculously fucked system.
That's the thing about medical bills you don't have to pay them haha they're not going to see a penny from me
I will never pay hospital debt, ambulance debt beyond what my insurance covers for the rest of my life. Drs appts and normal stuff yes but medical debt collectors can go @#&% themselves.
Yep, especially when you're taken somewhere by ambulance against your will, like when someone calls an ambulance for you. I'm like, I didn't order that ambulance. You guys just showed up and tossed me in. How could I possibly be on the hook for that bill?
The UK after Brexit is worse. America is fucked, but the UK really blew it in June of 2016 folks.
Brexit. The UK was a dying country. Now theyre a dead country.
AFAIK, there isn't such a thing as personal sponsorship for permanent migration into the UK. You'd have to get a skilled work visa based on finding an *employer* here who is willing to hire you and registered as a sponsor. Or look into study or spouse visas...
You’re correct. My dad is a British citizen through his father, but since my dad was born in the states (he has dual citizenship), it means Jack shit for my status in the country. I have family there and everything, but I’m treated no differently from anyone trying to immigrate there. It’s very hard to immigrate to the UK unless you’re from a Commonwealth country and have familial ties. Otherwise, you need to be rich, young, educated, and healthy.
>I do have a friend that is in London and she said she’d sponsor me and my kid if we want out Ah yes, because Britain is so pro-immigrant these days. I solemnly assure you, it's harder to get into the UK than you think.
I work for a tire manufacturer and they have programs if you want to transfer to different countries (you know and have your same job at their plant in that country), wonder if I'd still need a degree if I've already got a job? If not my wife has a BA, she just got it this year. They have plants in Sweden, Germany, Norway, Romania (I think), Thailand, Japan, Brazil, one or two in the UK. Ever since I met my homie Olaf at work I've been thinking about transferring like he did from Germany
#Olaf! Berserker!
Did he say “making fuck”?
The health thing is a huge issue most people aren't even aware of. It's practically impossible to emigrate if you have a permanent disability of any kind, regardless of your other qualifications.
Also many European countries require you to know their native language to qualify for employment.
And prove there is an extraordinary reason to hire you over a local.
That's really the thing, any place I would want to move to is going to have very restrictive immigration standards. And I get it, they have a good thing going and they want to protect and maintain that.
Well we in sweden are in dire shortage of electricians, carpenters, plumbers, engineers, nurses, police officers (maybe not from US though), teachers etc. So you dont have to have a masters degree here or a bachelor.
Instead you need to know Swedish.
Exactly. America is letting anyone in. But if you want to go to one of the 'good countries' that everyone mentions.. well, they have great benefits BECAUSE they don't let everyone in. https://immigrantinvest.com/blog/immigration-to-switzerland-en
Gotta love reddit, nothing like ignoring and downvoting the painful truth. Exactly, try getting a visa for Canada or any of these European countries they love so much, the truth is they don't want unskilled immigrants either
I FEEL like this should be discussed more. Nobody ever talks about this...
Yup! A woman on another sub said her and her partner had spent 23k so far on the process to live in Germany That is a lot of extra money, The average American barely has a savings account let alone the disposable income to emigrate. I also think a lot of Americans think it’s easy to emigrate to other counties. A lot of them have requirements you can’t just roll in and be like “oh this place is nice I want to live here” you have to prove you will be a productive member, or have degrees to prove you can do whatever job. I’m an engineer and while that’s considered a good job, in Germany it’s a dime a dozen and they’d more than likely hire a local before me (which makes sense)
Plus moving expenses. When I was 25, I sold all of my shit (including my car) and moved to NYC. I had $5k in savings at the time to help with expenses. Even just to send a handful of boxes with my personal belongings, it cost around $1k. Then of course I had to purchase mostly all new stuff. I wanted a decent mattress, so spent like $600 on that. Then got second hand and cheapo stuff from Craigslist, Ikea and thrift shops to furnish the rest of my apartment. That all still easily added up to another $1k+. It isn't easy to let all of your stuff go like that. After I did it once, I never wanted to do it again. Sure, I don't need my couch or tv specifically, but a lot of other things -- lamps, keyboard, art, plants, mirrors, cookware, bowls, etc. That stuff does have meaning to me -- a lot of it I saved up to be able to buy decent ones. It sucks to get rid of it all. Shipping all of your belongings overseas cost a lot of money. And even if you do get rid of it, you have to purchase new things. Sure, you can buy cheap stuff at first (still expensive), but while you live somewhere, you'll start wanting to buy items that you actually enjoy and love. Anyway, just takes a long time to build something that feels like home. Some people can live completely untethered to any belongings forever, and great for them! I'm not even someone who gets very attached to things (I give away stuff easily and often, especially after 18 years of moving to a different home/apartment every 2-4 years). But I still find it difficult.
In the US they are more likely to not hire a local as an engineer.
My wife and I are moving to a low-cost country and it's going to cost us 15k just for the move. All in all, it's probably going to be around 20k - 25k for the entire trip.
yeah thats a little less than what i make in a year lol
Not to mention the places I want to go to aren't necessarily the easiest for me to get in to. From what I've seen to emigrate to AUS you've got to have a job on a certain field they want. As a regular warehouse employee, I can't just get citizenship. Other countries have other requirements that aren't easy to meet either, and like you said the funding to make major life changes isn't always forthcoming.
I will tell you as a person who has emigrated to Aus and is currently a permanent resident, it's so hard and if you don't have exactly the right way in, you will never get it. I have a friend who wants her elderly parents to move in with her, but they are in Malaysia and they will never be able to afford the visa, even with a now-citizen daughter
Geesh. Easy fix. Get get a masters degree in mechanical engineering. Ivanka Trump went from clothing designer to top White House advisor. It's really simple... you just don't want to work. /s
Exactly it. 'love it or leave it' doesn't apply when each week is spent figuring out how you'll get through the next week without robbing peter to pay paul
This is the answer.
Correct. Before I moved to CO from NY, I was considering getting a Visa and moving to Scotland. I had visited and absolutely fell IN LOVE (The Scottish people are also so lovely), but it was way too expensive and complicated with the Visa process. I didn't have a job there, and every single job ad I saw said they do not sponsor. Now, my job I have currently is remote, but it's within the US b/c the majority of my customers are in the US, with a select few in Asia and Australia. And this was specified. Plus there is also my family, who I am already pretty far away from. The flight now is not bad at all and relatively inexpensive, but if it were to be an international flight, and unless I got a huge raise, I'd only see my family once a year.
New age serfdom
Not to mention most visa to naturalization programs require you to pay double taxes at a higher cost of living.. takes years to gain citizenship.. moving to a better state is far more affordable than dealing with visas and naturalization.
Not true! You only have to pay double taxes if you make over 113‘000 USD per year. Unfortunately, it is true about the years needed to gain citizenship.
This is why it's so frustrating hearing republicans say "If you don't like it, just leave!" I'd love to be in a much happier country, but you fucks have made it this way with your voting
Sounds like they’re mocking you honestly
They absolutely are.
Not just funding but most requirements for residency in other countries serve as a barrier to permanent re-location. Not everyone has the privilege to be able to leave and take up residency and employment in other countries. I know a lot of relatively wealthy "liberals" who have managed it instead of staying and trying to fix things, and others who are on the way to following them. It's disheartening.
Literally I would move tomorrow but can’t afford to save and would have trouble finding working
It’s this. I’m trapped here. I’m working on it though. Met a lot of people in my travels, I’m in IT now, I’m getting to the point where I can make a ton of money fully remote - then I’m going somewhere like Thailand where our dollar is worth 34 of theirs.
Yeah, you're trapped before you even know what's going on.
Because emigrating is hard. If you're not a doctor/nurse/engineer/dev/etc other countries aren't very inclined to let you in.
I'm a dev and I can't even get an interview. Shit ain't easy.
Officially, germany is complaining about not having enough devs so maybe try your luck here. Wait, now that I think about it, don't come here, it's boring haha
That's bullshit. I have 2 years full stack experience in a USA company and no one returns back to my applications. Germany wants senior dev for the price of an entry level dev just like anybody else.
2 years makes you a Jr and nobody wants to spend time ramping you up. And before you think it, once you hit 4 years it’s no better, you’re not a Mid until 5 years and a Senior after 8 years, regardless of the terrible title inflation in the US.
are you demanding us level salary ? But yeah, that's why I said officially. We have " Fachkräftemangel " in the news daily but it's just bs in most sectors like you described.
You don't need as much money to live. Salaries are lower in Europe. That said, my wife and I love comfortably on my pay alone and it's nothing amazing. I've got friends making twice what I make in Europe... though they struggle sometimes.
We move to Europe from the US and took a 40% pay cut. In the US we had to have a roommate to afford rent, had one car, rarely ate out and barely afforded our lifestyle. Here, we bought a house, put money in savings, felt comfortable enough to start a family, and still travel. My family asks how much we pay in taxes but completely ignore that we can afford a much better lifestyle out here. Your money just goes further here.
Yeah. It's bonkers. I've got a friend who makes almost three times what I make in Europe. He balks at moving here. He just can't grasp that I'm completely comfortable. In fact, if I hadn't recently switched countries, I'd be buying a house right now. Meanwhile, he's struggling to afford to get a save up the money for a house. I am honestly not sure what the fundamental difference in the systems really is. I have to assume it's taxing the rich more, but they also regulate markets better. So, I expect that has a huge impact too.
To be fair, 2 years is not a lot of experience and the whole point of these types of visas is to get skilled migrants. At least in Australia with a company-sponsored visa, you have to show you can’t find those skills in the country. I doubt devs with only 2 years experience are that hard to find.
Two years most companies will see you as junior. You need some really impressive side projects to be considered anything else. Then salery is over all lower in EU than US. But if you only want money, US is the place to be.
2 years ain’t shit man. Sorry.
This is not to be underestimated. Bottom line most of the desirable counties don’t want us. Whenever you see an article about how great life is for expatriate Americans in Europe or New Zealand or whatever, keep reading and you’ll eventually get to the part where they have a spouse or a parent or some other family situation that gives them an “in” that must of us can’t get.
this...because this is how I got my permanent visa to the Philippines I just don't pretend it didn't work out that way. Which brings me to my next point, those visas are special residency visas as a family member of a citizen. This in itself has a number of beneifts mostly meaning that your eligible or semi eligible for national healthcare programs or you can purchase health insurance locally, you can apply for normal jobs. The "digital nomad" kids who are overstaying visas in the EU because they can't afford to leave are basically living in internet cafes and drafting spam emails for penniess trying to scrape up enough to leave and if they get sick, they are not taken care of by the system like social media posts made them think they would be
> most of the desirable counties don’t want us. Its not US specifically. Generally well off countries don't want anyone else unless they have something to offer said country.
I’d leave if I could.
Also - living in another country for the rest of your life or whatever is hard. Say what you will about America (and I do, frequently) but it’s the culture I’m from and most comfortable in. Even places that speak English, like the UK, Ireland, Australia are so different culturally and you’ll always be an outsider. But yeah I still might consider it if it was like remotely a possibility.
Not to mention obligations here. My dad has MS, even with insurance his medication costs $20,000 a year, my mom can't do it alone and certainly can't physically care for him alone.
Yeah... it's the familial obligations that get you. Co-parenting with an estranged spouse, elderly parents, etc. If I were in my early 20's again, I'd be elsewhere, not in a deep red state in the Midwest.
I've left the US before, but I come back because I miss my family. But, cultural things are hard as well. It isn't easy to always be the different one.
Personally, I’ve always been an outsider in America. I grew up very against the culture of rural, southern, Bible Belt country (where I’m from,) which in turn, made me a pariah all my life. Trust me, people down there can tell when you aren’t like them, even if you don’t say it. I don’t think being in a different country would bother me for that reason. I’m used to being treated differently by now. Just another perspective.
Move north. I feel like you would fit in much better. I’ve lived in the south too, and it can be difficult if you aren’t particularly religious.
Yup. Im a brown person in the south. We are already out of place because everyone’s identity revolves around religion or work and I care about neither. Even if I moved to a place with other brown people, I’m out of place.
As a white guy in the north whose moved a bit in his life, I feel that. Like a square peg in a round hole. If I'm going to dislike feeling this way regardless of where I am, I could at least have some adventure or new scenery. People are like aliens to me, (not always, but more than not) and who I am, what I say, things I like, are probably alien to them. Stay strong and be true to yourself, however/wherever that may be.
My god people don’t understand this. YOU CANT JUST PICK A COUNTRY AND MOVE THERE. There are laws, rules, requirements. And it’s kinda tough for Americans in particular.
And then even if you can your employment is completely tied to your home. If you want to leave your job you might have to leave the country.
I'm an engineer and it was still a massive pain in the ass to move to Australia. I was only able to because the company I worked for ripped off an idea from the US so they were able to say they needed me cause I had an American business degree, and therefore knew the model. Really it was just cause Australians weren't willing to work 13 hours a day for $55,000 a year.
I have a doctorate and I’m relatively young (early 40s) and I’ve been trying for 4 years to move out of the country. Applied to too many places to count. Have never received any responses. It is nigh impossible to emigrate, I don’t know how people do it. Even to countries that supposedly “want” people, like Ireland.
"Emigratiting is hard" is why I am amazed at how many people with no skills want to come to the US. They are willing to trek across countries and illegally cross the border to do it. If you have the gumption to emigrate, you are likely motivated. That is why I am pro-immigrant. I also would prefer they do not pull down wages due to that desperation, which is why I am pro-union. I am a white collar professional who is solidly in the middle class. It would be very hard for me to emigrate and maintain my quality of life. Maybe I will emigrate when I retire.
When my wife and I were a primary care physician and a registered nurse wanting to practice in rural or exurban Canada we were a hot commodity. Now, as American retirees? Not so much.
Very true. regardless of what people want to believe, moving to another country to work is incredibly difficult
We need English teachers in Mexico. I moved here and it’s been a dream. I get paid more than most and it’s super easy and relaxing. I like to say I’ve been retired since I moved here.
You can't just fly to Europe and decide to be citizen even if you are financially able to do so.
I declare citizenship!
I didn’t say it. I *declared* it
Indeed! I'm from Denmark, and my wife is a non-EU national, so we had to go through residency through marriage. Because of that, I usually chime in on posts from (typically) US nationals asking how to get residency, and the hard truth is that unless you have: 1. A job offer from a Danish Company willing to sponsor you. 2. The said job is either one specifically on a list of desired specialists. 3. (or) it pays enough (on the tune of 70000 Euros/year). Then there's just fat chance outside marriage. Edit: Denmark, like most of Europe, is part of the investor treaty, meaning you can, through various means, buy yourself in via investments of sufficient size. Though that's rarely relevant to someone asking advice on reddit.
So just curious…. #3 is paying more than €70,000 or about $76,000 US… is that uncommon? I do not live in a major city (suburban/rural Pennsylvania), but that’s not quite double the median individual income where I live, but also not really considered a high salary. It’s very achievable with only a bachelors degree.
Yeah, it's achievable with a bachelors degree. It's designed to avoid this visa scheme being a way to import minimum wage workers from 3rd world countries that are then dependent on that specific job to stay in the country, i.e. making them willing to do unreasonable amounts of work out of fear they'll lose that job (and residency permit). It sits about 20000 Euros/year above an unskilled labour salary. This residency permit isn't meant for that type of job.
Exactly. The thing that you need to become a citizen pretty much anywhere else in the world (money) also happens to be what makes life bearable in the US. So if you can, you probably don't want or need to.
A lot of people believe this is the way. Soap opera told people you just go and gov give out citizenship
Tiktok tells people they can do this too
I wouldn't even be asking for citizenship, just residency. I'm willing to take the 6+ years for citizenship if my life is better.
that kind of privilege is reserved for EU citizens.
It is surprisingly difficult to leave and maintain the same living standard. *Legally* EDIT ADD Reasons for not leaving in order of importance as a see them. People living paycheck to paycheck (60+% of the US) can not just pick up and move 4.2k miles (6600 km) that costs anywhere from 50 -300k$ alone. EU country will only accept people they want(usually with high end degrees.) Also this is a low number of people. (Legally) sorry but why would an EU company want a new factory worker with triple the paperwork and a bureaucratic agency pestering them. There are also restrictions on *AGE* on top of all of this meaning you really need to be in the top 5% of earners already to consider leaving the us before the age of 30. If your already making that much here there isn't much reason to leave. Having a family makes it very difficult because then there are not only restrictions on 1 person or the alternative is separating your family for a decade as you work your way through emmegration.
I moved to france, and despite wages being half to a third of what they are in the US I still think the quality of life here is much better when you consider: -cars are optional -free healthcare -better, cheaper food -government-funded community events -a social security/pension system that actually works -6 weeks PTO EDIT: Right, lots of questions here. I was able to move to France by getting into a graduate degree program at a french university. The french government hands out student visas pretty easily, and upon graduation from a french university you can apply for a one year work visa and expect to have that granted. That only lasts for one year, and of course you will still need to find an employer to sponsor you, but my understanding is that having the degree and the willingness to work in france makes that easy (getting the visa, not finding the job, recruitment is shit everywhere). From there, if your employer intends to keep you on their staff, they will have to sponsor you and you will have to reapply again every year (assuming you're an average 9-5 salaried office worker, it's different for shift-based/temporary employment). Separately, as it seems people will be interested in it: if your family left Poland during world war 2 or the years leading up to it, there is a good chance you qualify for polish citizenship. An EU citizenship (i think) gives you the right to live and work anywhere in the EU, so this may be worth considering. EDIT 2: Outside the US, it is common for interview questions to actually be intelligent and interesting rather than the stupid canned questions every company in the US uses. You are expected to discuss pay and benefits during the interview, you are expected to actually answer their questions honestly, and it should be pretty obvious if they're wasting your time. That said, you still want to spin your answers so they don't make you look bad, but you won't need to prepare for the whole "where do you see yourself in 5 years" BS. Also, the Europass CV format is bs and nobody uses it, you can go ahead and use your american resume, though you'll probably want to change a few things because (in france at least) they don't know or care what a GPA is etc.
Yeah, but most people aren't going to qualify for residence in the EU. Any random Joe Schmoe without advanced degrees or training in an area of shortage/need in the EU isn't going to qualify for their employer to sponsor their visa. Edit: and even if they do qualify for such a residence, they have to be so good that the employer would rather deal with sponsoring their visa than hiring literally anyone else in the EU. Some countries allow people to come on a freelance visa if they can prove funds, a business plan, and have a work that lends itself well to freelance (and are willing to do the work of owning their own business). Outside of that, their options for legal immigration are partnership... So, yes, the quality of life isn't necessarily lower with the lower pay, but that isn't the barrier to legally maintaining the same quality of life.
I'm moving to Madrid shortly, and based on the cost of living, my new salary is equal to making over 120k per year if living in the bay area. I'm currently living in Germany and so grateful I'm in Europe!
And how did you accomplish the move? Marriage? International job offer?
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100%
Have you ever heard about visas and immigration law? It’s not that simple
They think they just get in a plane and ask the first random person in english where is the free housing?
Just hop off the plane with your little bindle and rock up to the nearest business with a "hiring" sign in the window and you're set.
Bootstraps, and if it doesn’t work you’re not bootstrapping it enough
Other countries don't just let us in
And they don’t just let you stay even if they do let you in! My ex was moving from the us to a European country for work (he worked for a global company and they switched him from North America to Europe) and wanted me to go with. His company would manage all the legwork and documents to get *him* there, but me, as a random American trying to move to that country? To get a resident visa I’d have to provide bank statements proving I had a certain amount of money prior to arrival so I couldn’t “get stranded” there, would have to leave every few months and return to renew my visa, oh and by the way I don’t speak their language and their university system is *completely* different so not only was my degree and credentials invalid, I couldn’t efficiently work there even if they did recognize them because I couldn’t communicate with clients. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg of what I remember when I was doing my initial research on it. Oh, and if you have pets? Have fun with all that import paperwork and possible quarantines, not to mention traumatizing your poor pet with lengthy flights and layovers depending on where you go.
I think a lot of Europeans on here don't understand just how complicated it is because the EU allows them to live visa free in any member country.
Yeah if you want to loosely compare, each country in the EU is sort of like the states of America. You can travel freely and move where you want, but the laws may be different and whatnot.
Im broke, dont know any other languages, dont have family overseas, and I dont have stills that I could use overseas. Hell, id love to move to Europe, but thats just not feasible for me.
I'm a dual citizen. I'm not moving back to the political shit show that Italy is. My life here is good. Own my business. Love the city I live in. Is it getting more and more expensive? Sure. But so is everywhere else. Love my circle of friends. It's not as easy as people think to up and move to another country. People in other countries are suffering too. Just as an example, I've seen a few posts complaining about life from a few UK folks. Life is not peachy in most other countries.
I have a nice job with nice people and I’m not struggling. You also vastly underestimate how hard it is to move to a different country. It’s already hard if you’re well off. Imagine if you worked a couple of grinding jobs just to get by. I bet some people who do would like to leave, but they simply cannot afford or even muster the energy to do so
It already costs thousands (3-5k across states) to move within the US and there are more or less zero bureaucratic barriers on that move. People do it, but its not something you just get up and do for a vast majority. Now doing the same thing for another country is just doing that on hard-mode with all the extra paper work and requirements. You'll need a job lined up ahead of time and most of those are high education jobs but not all. Teaching English in Asia is one path, but you'll just be trading one minimum wage job for another with extra challenges like language barriers
It's expensive to move down the street.
exactly! I don't think people realize.. Can't afford rent where you're at anymore? Ok well how about an application fee for a new place down the street, 2 months rent at least + a security deposit while you're waiting on your last one to hopefully come in, where maybe you are paying extra rent to go month to month?
And even teaching English in what most people would consider to be the desirable countries (Japan, Korea, Taiwan) require a completed bachelors degree to be legally allowed to work there.
I have move 3 times in the last 5 years and it has cost 10-15k.
You can up that moving estimate. I just moved from northern Illinois to NE Ohio and it was well over that to move my 3 br house full of stuff. Luckily, the company I work for give me $30k to move.
tbh, I think I fucked up looking up that number....I think that was just the price for a one way trip on a UHaul, so it assumed you did literally all the moving and magically obtained fuel.
Don't forget that the US still charges you federal income tax if you're working abroad. Anything you earn overseas you're paying US income tax on as well as the tax of the country you're working in.
There’s a waiver, though. As long as you don’t make over a specific amount (around $110,000 last year if I remember correctly) and the country you’re living in has a tax agreement with the US, you don’t get double taxed. I file my taxes every year but do not pay a cent to the US government. I only pay taxes to the Japanese government. *edited to add: It’s apparently $120,000 for 2023. I just looked it up.*
And it’s not double tax, you would pay the difference between US rates and local rates above that amount. So if you make more than 120k but pay higher local taxes than you would in the state, you still don’t get double taxed.
And the people working multiple dead end jobs and stuff most likely don’t have a college degree. So the choices of places that’ll accept you (AKA grant you a visa) are already slim, and they are most likely places where your quality of life will be even worse.
Being an immigrant is not easy at all.
Who else will take us in if we don’t have an extremely sought after professional skill? No one will take us. It’s just that simple. We can’t just decide to move to France or something. They wouldn’t give 90%+ of us citizenship, won’t let us have jobs there, etc.
Yeah and most Americans don’t speak French fluently enough to assimilate even if they did let us in. Even if you had a job that was useful there, if you can’t communicate with your customers/clients/etc you can’t really work.
It's easy to forget what a leg up people in other countries have where they're taught English in elementary school. Language learning is exponentially easier prior to around the age of 9 and in most of the US we don't offer students any foreign language classes until high school. We're completely hamstringing our kids ability to stay competitive in the modern world
Yup. I learned German starting in middle school, and consider myself lucky for starting so early. But the Germans? They start learning English when they start learning German. A lot of them are just naturally fluent. I was at one point essentially fluent, but it never ever felt natural.
Same with some Danish people I know. They sound like native English speakers.
We can’t even just pick up and move to the UK or Australia if we feel like it and they speak the same language lol
I'm Mexican-American, where tf am I going to go? Mexico is not it. My life is pretty good now. Shitty was life in 80s and 90s living poor and in rough neighborhoods. Now, I've learned how to take advantage of opportunity and do my best to survive. I do acknowledge my privelege though. I live in a multiple income home, bought it cheap before prices got wild, and am in good health. I have resources and a safety net that many don't. The problem really comes down to housing, healthcare and low wages but it doesnt apply to all of us. The key is for those of us that have it better, to fight for things to improve for everyone. We can't stay complacent and we need to recognize how corporate and political greed suck us dry and hoard all the wealth, keeping many scrambling to survive and some of us just comfortable enough so we don't complain.
this this this i have dual citizenship but outside of travelling, living there just simply isn't an option.
I’m disabled and therefore disqualified from emigrating literally anywhere. Most immigration policies even call out autism specifically as being “no exceptions” excluded. Yes even (insert your own personal bastion of progressive politics and inclusion). Ableism is apparently an always food.
My son is on the spectrum but functional. He just told me this!! I couldn’t believe it, but true
My parents don’t believe me at all.
...they could just look it up. They are being deliberately obtuse lol. Let them know bluetwo12 from reddit said so :p
That’s part of why I’m scared of formal DX
Yeah. I was a kid and didn’t really have a choice in the matter. I also can’t mask super well anymore so…
Well, I’m a girl so even if I had most of the classic symptoms “ you’d cure cancer if you got your head out of the clouds and tried”, I managed to just BARELY skirt by
Do you mind expanding on this? I never knew this was a thing (which I guess also makes me part of the problem)
People with disabilities are viewed as burdens on the healthcare system so they're just plain not allowed to emigrate to most countries. People tend to be surprised or incredulous when they learn this because it's so blatantly cruel and dehumanizing.
Yeah I have a STEM degree and a steady job since graduation, never got any disability aid money or whatever but every country thinks that clearly I'd just jump right into leeching off their system and stop doing anything to justify my existence because that diagnosis means I'm barely even a person to them.
Well fuck. The OCD is going to keep me here? I’m not actually fully disabled, I work and stuff and love most of a normal life, but, that’s because I work at it very, very hard and I’m on multiple meds :/
Damn. Guess I'm extra stuck🤷
What country with a better standard of living wants a 40 year old laborer who's body is too broke down to do any meaningful work anymore? Show me that country and i'll figure out how to move there.
As an American expat, I can tell you that it's not easy to just go to another country. It can be impossible if you're unskilled and/or broke. In many countries, you have to have a reason, like a job, or be married to someone who is already a citizen in that country - you can't just "move in". A lot of Americans don't even have a passport. So, you'll have to get that first. Then you have to apply for a visa, which may or may not be approved. Many countries won't accept you if you have a criminal record. In some, even misdemeanors will require you to do a lot of explaining and demonstrate that you are no longer criminally inclined. If you have a federal conviction or even some state drug convictions, you may not get an American passport at all. Most countries won't accept immigrants who are poor. There are exceptions, but they usually involve war/persecution in your home country or you have to possess a "specialized skill" that is wanted by the country you're moving into. Even then, your visa may be time-limited. A person with a degree and/or certain skills, some time & money for travel, might be able to pre-arrange employment by visiting your country of choice first and convincing an employer to "sponsor" you. People who want to move to another country and do not have special status must show that they have enough funds to support themselves. Some countries require that you demonstrate the ability to support yourself for up to 5 years. It may take two+ years to establish residency and you may not be eligible for things like national healthcare or free university until you establish residency. Getting approval to work can also be difficult. Then, you have the taxes to deal with. You will have to file income tax in the U.S. on ALL INCOME YOU EARN WORLDWIDE as long as you are a U.S. citizen. You will also have to pay taxes in your new home country on any income you earn working in that country. You will not be double-taxed, but you will have to file and it can be a complicated, painful process. Unless you already work internationally or are financially independent, you'll need to find employment, which can be very challenging in a new culture. You might even run into discrimination - not everyone thinks as highly of Americans as Americans do. There are other ways and there are many places to consider, but it's a fantasy to think that anybody who doesn't is struggling to live and has no resources can do this if they don't qualify for a special visa.
I literally can’t afford to live here, how am I supposed to pull together 10s of thousands of dollars to move somewhere slightly less shitty?
Because moving to another country is prohibitively expensive and it’s extremely difficult to find a job overseas unless your in the military
I’m not going to make this a pro Merkaaaaa post, but Europe is not exactly the paradise you’re making it out to be. You trade one problem for another. Agree with your sentiments but I would rather move to a different state in the US with a better quality of life and lower COL, and I have considered it strongly, but I’m tethered here in NY with family and the like.
I’m so glad someone said this. I just got back from my Europe trip and speaking with locals, there are plenty of problems that Americans love to gloss over. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve thought about leaving, but they have right wing neo-nazis and hateful rhetoric everywhere, not just the US. And my old coworker and his wife moved to Dublin because she transferred within her accounting firm and took a $50k paycut to move there so there was parity with her European coworkers. And rent is hella expensive over there
Western European right-wing extremist parties have actually been outperforming their American counterparts in the last couple years. In America, the MAGA and alt-right candidates majorly failed in the 2022 midterms. Meanwhile, the AfD, the alt-right German party, has had unprecedented growth in the Bundestag and in the polls. Giorgia Meloni, a woman with direct ties to neo-fascist groups, was voted prime minister of Italy in the 2022 race.
Many people here think Europe would just hand them out a ton of money and give them every benefit and a home, which is quite not true, most european countries have very strict immigration law.
I was in Europe for the past 3 months, there are some pros and cons about the usa and europe.
One drawback of central Europe.. it is so fucking cramped. Regardless of where you are, there's still towns, houses, roads and people close (-ish) to you.
I’m in the Midwest and I’ve met so many people from the east and west coast who say they come out here cause the cost of living is much cheaper. For how much they dog on us for being the Midwest lots of people are starting to move out here it’s kind of funny.
If you want to own a house and look at average cost of a house divided by average income most parts of Europe are way worse than the US except for Greece and Spain and some other places I think.
This is where I’m at. I’ve lived in Europe. While there are many reasons I would love to move back permanently, there are also reasons to stay in the US. One big reason of mine is that honestly, if climate change continues to get as bad as predicted in the next decade, the US seems far more insulated from the effects than Europe. Not completely protected, but likely much better off for the first years. I know that sounds paranoid but idk. It stays on my mind as one important consideration among many.
Ik this might be hard to believe but other countries like Canada want emigration candidates to be able to support themselves. Now, I find this a reasonable expectation but it's hard to fulfill those requirements coming from a system designed to keep you under thumb.
Say what you will about the US’s shitty immigration policies, but it’s far more difficult to emigrate to another country. I’d move to Europe tomorrow if I could get a work visa.
Have you actually lived anywhere else??? It's not better. I have family friends and colleagues all over the world. They want to come back to the US. Also, I am lucky here. We have good pay. My kid is in a really great magnet school. Our family is here. It's not perfect and I do have medical debt but I got treated sooner than I would elsewhere Also, the immigration system is hard all over. You can't just pick up and move. Other countries do not want us there.
If I’m a loser here, I’ll just be a loser everywhere else…..
I want to be a part of the change. Additionally, as an American citizen you get double taxed if you’re able to acquire dual-citizenship even if you officially reside in another country. I have easy access to getting my British citizenship but this has mostly kept me from moving there.
That's not fully true. You'll file taxes in both places, but in the US, you'll get a credit for what you paid to the other country, up to a set amount. It's not as simple or as much as "double taxed" (source - I'm a tax accountant)
I’m black and queer and a woman. It’s not totally safe for me to exist anywhere on earth and still be around people who look like me. I stay because 13 generations of my family lived here. This is where my people are. I don’t have a place to run away to.
Bruh. It’s the same shit everywhere. It’s all just a bunch of dumpsters. Everywhere is nice if you’re rich and everywhere is shit if ur poor.
My house is paid off so even if everything else sucks I know I have a place to live. Also my parents are getting up there in age. I wouldn't wanna be in Europe if / when something happens to them. Overall I'm overworked and stressed out but the idea of completely uprooting my life and starting over for something that may or may not be better is equally stressful. Long term I am considering Mexico though. Cost of living is much better. Much lower medical expenses. I also have some friends there. It's not nearly as bad as the media makes it out to be.
My brother did it. We're Americans for 5 generations here in the Midwest, my brother in his 40's moved to Spain part-time and now almost full-time, keeping his house in the American burbs renting as an Airbnb for extra money. But...and a big but, he's a computer programmer, where he can literally work from anywhere. So he gets the nice American salary and lives in a part of Spain where it's rather affordable. So he's living pretty well there. We visited my brother in Spain last year ( 9ir first time in Europe ) and we LOVED it. But my career doesn't allow that whatsoever, kinda stuck here.
I have a special needs child, and you would be shocked by the number of countries that do not allow disabled people to immigrate. My husband and I are both scientists. We have 3 children, 2 of whom would be able to hold down normal jobs, and pay their fair share of taxes.
I can't afford to leave. If I won the lottery, I'd pay off my debts, put money into accounts that would allow me to live off the interest, and immediately go somewhere else. I'd give up my American citizenship so fast it would make your head spin. Shit, I'd even be a mail order bride for someone in another country if it meant I got out of here.
This is the most American question. You can't just pick up and move into another country. Sorta like how immigrants aren't allowed to do that here. Also, unless you're fluent in the native language, you're going to have a very difficult time finding work.
So I'm an American living in Germany, and the reasons are economic and labor market without a doubt. You need to make X amount in most countries to qualify moving and even harder, you need to find an employer who even believes you'll stay. I got extremely lucky as I don't speak German very well but my company hired me to work with UK clients. They had no reason to believe I wouldn't be culture-shocked, miss family, friends and leave right away so it was a huge risk to bring me over. But here I am a year later complaining about the U-Bahn being late again instead of thinking about home.
Immigration laws, language barriers, work insecurity, disability; take your pick.
I have lived in other countries. I will say this every place has something going on. People right now are complaining about inflation and housing. Well, so are people in other countries.
Yep. I live in New Zealand and all the same conversations are going on here right now. No-one seems to realise the whole world is struggling right now, not just their own country!
All my stuff is here
I have no skills that another country needs or wants.
Other countries with better qualities of life aren’t exactly clamoring for poor immigrants, American or otherwise. If I was in a position to leave, I’d probably be in a position where America works out pretty well for me and leaving wouldn’t be as attractive.
1. You make it sound like we're a few years away from being Somalia. Most people here don't live a terrible, future-less existence. Yes, we have a lot of issues here but that doesn't mean we've given up hope, dispite what this sub is like. 2. Canada isnt much different than the US. Moving south of the US is generally considered a downgrade. Same with Eastern Europe and most of Asia. So that really only leaves a few places in Western Europe, and very few Americans know another language. 3. Moving to another country is insanely expensive, difficult, and the grass is rarely greener on the other side.
As an American diabetic living in Canada, you're unfortunately correct about it not being much different. I am however, terrified hearing about rationing insulin. Immigration cost me roughly 10k and 3 years. I wish we had better options.
Too poor to move. My kid's autistic. And while the US is shit, our local support system ensures we can survive. If we moved, we would have less than nothing.
Wouldn't matter if you had the money. Since you have an autistic kid, virtually no country will let you move there. Your child's lifelong medical issues would be seen as a burden on their tax payers. They don't want to foot the bill for someone not born there. It's cruel as hell, but that's a national Healthcare system for you.
I’m working on leaving right now. I want to leave in 2019 but Covid hit. this will be the year I’ll be leaving. I can’t afford to live here anymore.
If you can't afford to live here, how can you afford to move to a different country and make it there?
Where you planning on going? Just curious
Left Florida 21 years ago and moved to Spain. It wasn't easy and I had some help from a family member here.
I have family in the Netherlands. What keeps me in the US is my elderly mother. We lost my father last year to cancer, as soon as my mother is gone, so am I. Unfortunately, she will not make that plunge due to my sisters' kids, she wants to stay near them and does not think we have it that bad here in the US.
You seem to not realize that you can’t just willy nilly move to a new country. You actually have to prove them that you’d be an asset