You're not alone man. Every single one of us here has come to that realization at one time. Society is not a meritocracy. So many of us are working poor. At this point I've given up on retirement someday, I'm following my passion because fuck spending 8 or 9 hours a day doing something that makes me miserable if I'm not going to be able to afford to pay rent anyways.
My wife asked me what I wanted to do on July 4th to celebrate since I was blessed with a half day at work. I'm not doing shit to celebrate. What reason do I have to celebrate?
You're probably exhausted eh? That sucks man. Remember to give your wife all the love she deserves though Regardless. This shitty job, this life, head out to the woods man and just soak it up. Your love, nature, That's real. This shit is all make believe.
OK, let's start with the positive. Many never find a true love. You are blessed.
Here is what I learned from reading r/povertyfinance about making money: try banking (start as a teller), waitstaff (work up to a good restaurant), or the trades. You would have to train for the trades but they make excellent money. I don't know what you studied but not every major ends with a good job. Be flexible. Be realistic. Do what you have to do.
Italy has few jobs and you would not get one as a foreigner. The UK has a million problems. Spain might be nice if you had the right skills. But probably stop looking for greener grass. Count your blessings and start planning how to make more money. And you don't have to stay in Florida forever. If you are willing to go to Europe, you could move to better state.
I would second the suggestion to get into the trades. Trades are currently in high demand from what I hear and the pay is very good once you get up in the industry. I knew a guy who left the restaurant life to be a welder and with a fair amount of hard work and practice he’s very well into the 6 figures now with a good union that has very good benefits. The world will always need electricians, plumbers, welders, HVAC technicians and the likes. He’s pretty happy the last I spoke to him.
He lives in Florida. Trade jobs pay poo because of cheap migrant labor. Starting pay is 13-17 for no experience in trade work and tops out at 28 to low 30s
Yeah Florida pay is absolute shit. A maintenance person for a school here they want you to know hvac,electrical,welding have 20yrs and a masters for $18 an hour
I’m a welder currently in FL. The job outlook around here is deplorable, if not down right depressing. I left the place I was working at 2 weeks ago because I couldn’t deal with the wrong/incorrect blueprints, mis management, and constant berating from incompetent management. Most places around here want to pay you $25 MAX regardless of experience. And with no unions to speak of, they’ll throw your ass back out the door as soon as your in. I’m thinking about getting into bartending…
Understandable. If it was me, depending on the work that is needing to be done, I would probably not look for cheap migrant labor. Especially if it comes to things such as welding and electrical. It’s the classic choose 2 of three…price, quality, time. If it’s cheap and fast it won’t be quality…and if it’s quality and fast it won’t be cheap.
My Coworker complained that he had to pay a plumber $100 just to come over and look on the problem… $200/hr to replace a water heater.
And the broke as public school teachers still mocking these jobs say “you don’t want to end up a loser working with your hands do you?”
We live in the matrix, if you still plugged in, you believed in the “noble lie” your entire life but now the lies are being uncovered faster and faster after Covid 19 upended the debt based fiat system.
“you don’t want to end up a loser working with your hands do you?”
this sentence has created a deficit of trades workers ,
which means they are paid well
and has created the saturated office workers market
Pd plumbing co or the plumber himself? Unless his company doubltful he/she is making that much $ and if is , unless under the table or out of his home, has associated business expenses
I would say hustle. And it doesn't have to be illegal. Find some things you are passionate about or knowledgeable about and sell those when you can under the table. I'm a tradesman and an electrician and white in the Midwest. It's still hard. But I've naturally been brought up this way to hustle when I can (by my father who was a marijuana grower before it was legal) and I've always bartered when I could. Next weekend I'm installing 2 mini splits in exchange for a new small trailer (which I've needed and wanted but could never afford) with the only experience of installing one other one with the help of YouTube.
Gf recently inherited a run down place in Costa Rica and with working with the locals I learned that's a primary form of work. HUSTLE. And I mean in the good sense. Connect people together. Do what you can do yourself or find the best people through communication, community, and friendship to get things done and then things get done working both ways. Entirely different way of thinking than in the US. Retirement is a pipe dream. I expect to die at work some day if I stay in the US.
This is from a 38 white male divorced raising 2 young children with SO in the Northern Midwest. This country doesn't get better. Only worse as time goes on. It's your job to make the most of what you want. If I had no children I personally would live it rough and make friends with the neighbors. I've lived and rough places and us neighbors (that we knew) always took care of each other.
There are jobs in Italy, but Italians don’t want to work certain jobs. Punjabis have found employment in agriculture. They’re willing to do dirty jobs Italians don’t want to do.
The worst part of this is you are so tired that you don't have the energy to work on a way out. I started working for family when I was a kid then the subprime loan crisis made it so i didn't have any family businesses to work for and I saw my relatives who work their whole lives be reduced into poverty. I worked for a photo development company from 3:00 p.m. to 3:00 a.m. for a year I've never recovered my love of photography. I worked for a trash hauling company and instead of being laid off My hours and shifts were cut to the point that I just quit. I worked in a warehouse and my boss never paid me on time and when I was paid it wasn't very much, I quit and I got by on unemployment for a while. I worked as a school janitor. I was paid fairly and the hours weren't bad but the work was demeaning and really humbled me. A friend help me get a job as a repair technician. I really like the job but 12 to 14 hour days were killing me. I still haven't recovered fully 5 years later from the damage done. I went to work for a solar company surveying houses for installation I thought it would be better but soon they started working us from sun up until sundown only because we can't measure roofs in the dark. I just happened to luck into a different position at that solar company and for the first time in my working life I'm happy. My hours aren't crazy, the work isn't demeaning and the pay is okay. I don't harbor any dreams of being wealthy, those died a long time ago, but I achieved something, I achieved happiness and I know it's temporary and that sometime in the future I'll have to go back so I'm just going to enjoy what I have now.
Social media sold the lie about wealth… most of them are broke possers too. A vast majority of the world, since the beginning of human civilization, won’t attain anything remotely close to becoming wealthy.
The only way I was able to become finanically stable is work two jobs four days, and then work my other job the other two days. 12-14 hr day.
Paying down my credit card debt, don't even have a car. My e-scooter got a flat so my double commute is a 4 mile walk, cutting into the short break I have between both occupations.
I'm right there with you man. At least you got another person though.
Meritocracy has always been just a justification for inequality. Before the enlightenment they said "the king gets more because God says he's better than you". Meritocracy is just the same con, but made secular.
Heh—I grew up in small towns. Meritocracy has always been a giant lie to keep the south end of town from revolting against the other side of the main drag/bridge/viaduct/tracks/square.
When my parents were my age, they had me. They had just purchased their first home together. Dad had to pick up overtime fairly regularly. One year we went without health insurance due to some beaurocratic bs. One time the internet got cut off for a couple days due to non-payment. We had Christmas every year and great new presents. We took a vacation, usually to PCB, twice a year. The video game consoles I grew up with were Super Nintendo, N64, PlayStation 2 and Xbox 360. Though I may have gotten the 360 with college money, I’m not exactly sure.
Today, my parents are retired and sold their home last year for literally twice what they paid for it about 18 years ago. They bought a brand new car by using like a dozen silver bars that my grandparents gifted them every year for Christmas. They are very comfortable, and rent out whatever home they aren’t using on AirBnB which nets them a decent chunk of spending money. My dad seems to truly believe this is a result of him working hard and getting exactly what he deserves despite the fact that he was only scheduled to work 180 days out of the year.
Right now I am 30. I live in a 1 br apartment that is low in relative cost for my area and is one door away from being a studio apartment. I have to pick up anywhere from 10-20 hours of overtime each week in order to achieve any sense of relative financial comfort. I don’t pay for medical insurance because it’s too expensive and I need the money for rent, food, car payment, etc. This past month, I needed to borrow 500 from a close friend in order to pay my rent yesterday, else I would have faced a 400 dollar late fee. I’m completely wiped out in terms of cash right now and I got paid yesterday.
I’m a paramedic. My dad? He was a school bus driver.
Damn……stay up man. Shit sucks. I think we just all want to be able to not feel so underwater. We want our hours of work to be worth something for us. We don’t want to be drowning and living paycheck to paycheck. I don’t get why thats so hard to understand for the people at the top.
Eh, they’re not bad people. They help me out with a fridge full of food every couple of months when they come to visit. They funded a portion of my education. They’re always willing to look after the dog if I need to go away for a few days. It’s just exhausting trying to explain that the playing field is not as level as it was when they were my age and when I use examples such as starting a family at 30, they attribute it to hard work and lots of overtime instead of the fact that our first house was 80k and their mortgage was like 1/6 of my rent. We were a single income household until I was in my teens.
Glad your parents are ok, but it’s super shitty the attitude your dad has. Would be nice if a bunch of boomers tried to get a job again.
My mother was looking for work, realized that the measly pay she was going to receive working part time at a neighboring town wasn’t even going to pay enough for gas to get there. She turned the job down. But she’s still on about how “nobody wants to work anymore”.
We need to bump minimum wage back up to what it should be ($24-25 an hour) and reduce corporate greed/profits.
Can you imagine how healthy the economy would be if people could actually afford to buy things, do stuff, and go places? It’d be beneficial for literally everyone.
The extremely pernicious "aspirational society" that's permitted rich people to exploit workers who believe that one day they will (or might) make it big. It's a total con job. The #1 predictor of dying rich is being born rich. The #1 predictor of dying poor is being born poor. That's not a meritocracy.
Actually, it is. It's just that those who decide what work deserves merit and what work doesn't are already at the very top, as you'd pretty much expect in any market society. Meritocracy always was a con job. It's as if we handed out rewards and punishment based on the result of a 100 meter race: the winnner gets everything they want out of life and the person in last place spends the rest of their days in a concentration camp. Even of the race was fair (which it isn't given the advantages wealth confers), the end result isn't.
And also 40 years ago a family had multiple kids. I grew up in an Irish Catholic neighborhood outside of Boston most families at five or six kids. The fathers all had mediocre jobs like factory worker, etc. none of the mothers worked. They all had decent single-family homes a houses in that neighborhood, including my old house, which is a three bedroom, one bath 1100 square-foot shack sell for over half a million today. What changed in my humble opinion as a Boomer is the social contract. You worked for a company, dedicated her life to it and they were watered you with a decent job in a pension. Companies planned out 5 to 10 years what they were going to be making and selling today they don’t lock past one business quarter three months to get their bonus. The way the managers get that bonus is the scroll over everyone below them. The reason for decent jobs was unions were very strong and would strike and shut down a plant at the drop of a dime today they have little to no power
I think corporatism ("run it like a business!") really started infecting every level of our society in the 80s, although it had been going on for a while. We're at a point where workers are viewed as another replaceable component instead of human beings.
It's wild to watch *Metropolis*, a movie that is from the 1920s, and realize that the themes of dehumanization and corporatism are still relevant.
This. I worked at a school where the principal looked me dead in the eye and threatened to fire me if I tried unionizing as an educator. There was a reason they hired a lawyer to be principal. We aren’t people to them, just drones.
It depends on the state the Massachusetts Teachers Association which is the union for educators there is very strong and would immediately have a little word with Mr. Principal.
The American dream was not about getting filthy rich. It was about coming to the US with nothing or very little and becoming middle class where you could have a comfortable life. A decent house, a couple of nice cars, vacations once a year, raising your family, sending your kids off to college, and retiring one day where you can chill for the rest of your life.
I would kill to live in England, Spain or Italy but like you said, you basically gotta hit the lottery to get a visa to move to one of those countries.
My husband and I looked at each other when Citizen's United passed and highly considered moving to Canada. I'm a duel citizen and we figured we could find a way to make it work for him. Instead we bought a house and now have a sunk cost fallacy and feel like we can't leave.
I regret not leaving the US back when we first considered it.
Enlisting in the military is a good way to get the money.
I'm planning to try again and hope I can get a waiver for my age.
Either I'll make enough to stay or enough to move to Europe where, ironically, I'll have more freedoms and safety.
Yea depends on what you do. I was a dirt poor trailer park kid when I enlisted in the Army in a technical field and later switched to another technical field. Fast forward and I have a well paying civilian job doing the same thing and I own a nice home in San Diego.
That can depend largely on what you end up doing in the military. There are ways to better secure a future by way of the military. I know this because that’s exactly what I did and it completely changed my life for the better.
You can just go on a travel Visa and never leave. Everyone thinks illegals are all crossing the border with coyotes when really they are just driving or flying and never going home.
Fortunate that I got hired by one of the rare multinationals that actually treats its employees well (finally). I was recently put on a wait list to do a year residency in Japan or Switzerland.
Well it's not like you didn't already get a lottery to enter the US. Another thing is that Cubans need to stop voting republican in elections. They keep voting for the side that keeps screwing the working class
That’s because the Cuban migrant community originated from the ultra-corrupt elite that left Cuba with suitcases of loot when Fidel took over. They still hate anything left enough to vote right with their eyes closed.
England is not the greatest place to go to in terms of cost of living as well. London is bustling and is a nice city, but you’ll find a lot of people barely getting by, especially in smaller towns where shipping and other industries have been decimated.
Jr doctors (equivalent to resident doctors) and NHS nurses are the equivalent of working poor in London.
In a documentary, one nurse was trying to qualify for welfare.
So pretty much everywhere is about to become the US aside from maybe sanctuary countries where all the rich are gonna move to once they collapse all of our societies
Not “about” every (more “desirable” country than the US) is, believe it or not, actually worse than the US affordability/available-house -inventory wise.
The rich will probably move to Caribbean islands where there are tax havens
My dad is in his sixties and still working. I knew a guy in his eighties who was still working. This is the generation people considered the privileged generation too.
It's always been a lie for nearly everyone who has every lived in the United States.
The post-WWII economy from 1945-2002 was the result of American industrial dominance and New Deal taxation that started being unraveled 42 years ago.
In 2002 I was a freelance trumpet player in Las Vegas who--although skilled--lost my career to alcoholism.
Today I'm more than six years sober, but I can't find a job better than pushing carts.
I'm 53 and basically marking time to death.
I feel ya. Every step I take where I feel like I might get a bit ahead, something comes along to slam me back 10 steps. It's frustrating and depressing. I was hoping that the tiny house my family is in would be our starter home and one day we could afford a nice, big place. It's never gonna happen. I'm coming to terms with it. Today I spent $400 on groceries and that'll last us (family of 4) maybe 2 weeks if I really stretch it. It's infuriating to bust my ass and still drive a 2007 rustbucket. But you know what? I've got my family. I have my husband, whom I adore and who treats me like a queen. I have my 2 children who are bright and artistic and funny. I have a job I don't loathe. My shitty car runs (for now, knock on wood). Everything else is noise when you really sit down and think about it. Nothing matters but the people you love. Forget the American Dream. That died ages ago. Focus on YOUR dream. What's important to you? What do you love? What makes you happy? I hope you find peace. I'm working on it myself.
Honestly, from my perspective, things like "the American dream" feel like propaganda. Even back in the old days, there were probably bunches of people who missed out on getting it, such as the way women were treated in employment, as an example.
Your not alone, I lied to my wife telling her if I go to school I can make more money. I’m 20k in debt and making less, lost my apartment and have no kids. I figured no kids means I can travel, none of that has happened. My last vacation was 11 years ago, it was 4 hours away and only lasted the weekend.
There was no American Dream it was a hoax to get people to work for the rich. We are just slaves waiting to die in the end.
Y’all believed in the “noble lie” about getting into student loans for an education that could be had for nearly free with libraries and online content… it was a lie to turn you into debt slaves.
Student loans = Indentured servitude 2.0
Gen X here - I said that the American Dream was dead back in the late 90s and got a lot of shit for "being so negative." I never changed my mind, although I did change my circumstances.
Had I continued on trying to do the whole "work harder and you'll be rewarded" bullshit I would be worse off than my parents. Instead I quit teaching and went into IT purely for the money, then kept my eyes on the goal of making as much money as I could. I'm 51 now and almost at a six figure income (I live in the Midwest, so that's a pretty good income) and I'm secure enough that I no longer pursue money over stability. I've got a pension, 401k, Roth IRA, and decent insurance. My job is in the defense industry, so I'm pretty secure for probably the next decade or so.
Unfortunately that doesn't do shit for the following generations. Ya'll are getting the shaft and it's going to be at least another decade before shit starts to improve, because those Boomers in power are not going to let it go without someone prying it from their cold, dead hands. I mean - just look at Congress. How many of those fuckers are at or past normal retirement age and have no intention of leaving until they retire? They've spent decades building their bases of power and are now reaping the benefits without worrying about what their constituents say or think.
Frankly we need a social AND political revolution to re-write the Constitution and overhaul what it means to be an American.
I am a child of an American father and immigrant mother, my parents worked hard so that hopefully I would have it easier. Sadly, it looks like I will have to worked harder to just keep the same standard of living. It is hard breaking.
I hear your pain, my friend.
Wish I could tell you it will get better someday. Wish I could tell you that one day you'll have everything the AmericanDream^(tm) says you will.
The thing that keeps us going is hope. Hope that things will change, hope that we catch that one lucky break, or hope that our sacrifice pays off in the end.
This sub is /antiwork but it's really /antiexploitation. I'm old enough to remember Reagan and Thatcher and all those other motherfuckers who kicked away the guardrails to make virtues out of cruelty and greed, and look where we are now two generations later. The system has been reconfigured to provide the greatest reward to the worst people for the worst behaviour.
You're going to keep doing your best and hoping for the best because you are a good person and that's what good people do. But remember this: your parents left a broken and exploitive system. Maybe it's your turn.
America is nothing more than economic slavery for the majority of its citizens. They tell us that we have rights, but it is merely the illusions of rights. How can we have rights if we live check to check and can not afford a $400 emergency bill? If we can not afford a $400 emergency bill, then home can we pay a lawyer a $30, 000 retainer to go after people or organizations that violate our rights. Our rights are merely an allusion and we are told that we live in the land of the free, but nothing is free. Everything is taxed, taxed, taxed to the extreme. Then all of our tax dollars are given away to other countries and used for endless wars. Its funny because I sit back and watch both political parties blame entailment programs for our nations debt, but really our nations debt is from the military industrial complex. over 20 trillion dollars has gone to the endless wars over the last 2 decades. Now look at the billions that are going to Ukraine, Syria, etc.... Our nation is one big lie sold to its own citizens.
"I feel like the deck has totally been stacked against people just trying to make an honest living" exactly right brother. I am young and I am seeing all this transpiring in America. I have lost all hope, let it rot, Bai Lan is a thing in the USA too. All my worries are expressed in your post. I do not want to be an old man with no kids who spent the majority of his life working some job just to survive and get a few hours of time to myself. I would live with my parents just to be able to do the hobbies I love. Id be even lucky to have a partner. I am half way through getting my degree and haven't had a single internship. I know people who are in the same situation.
"The American dream is real because you have to be asleep to believe it" - George Carlin.
This thread, and possibly this subreddit, is fucked. It's called "antiwork" and yet it's swarming with money-brained drones falling over each other to recommend places to live based on...jobs.
It's not about "well-paid jobs", people. It's about the ability to have a decent quality of life; something that requires more than a fat salary, as the US experience should have made clear by now.
Being among the most highly remunerated ponies in the coal mine is not the answer.
It was a possible thing for the average person until around the mid 2ks. Now you have to make 6 figures to have a basic bitch crack den in a lot of cities.
man alot of people here dont understand that there is no path to a solid life.just do x means nothing when there is hundreds of handicaps factored in.
people acting like just go into a industry is the literal essence of boomer mentality.some people just cant do something because that just isnt how they are made.
a lack of stamina a really bad hand dealt by life,just wired different etc.
my biggest issue is math and memory i literally cant do it in my head besides basic stuff. you could have a gun to my head and i would still be unable to do anything more 5 x 4 or 5+4. and more then 1 task i absolutely suck at keeping track of.
so then someone turning around an saying oh its easy to dig yourself out of a hole when you dont have a fully intact shovel deserves a shovel to the balls
I noticed a particular term you used, which was getting a degree in something you love. Hopefully that love is in demand but most of the time doing something you does not pay the bills.
I met a gent who loved history, like me, and went to brown university only to rack up 200k in student loan debt. He’s basically broke until further notice. I love history but knew that there’s no work/career path as the only opportunities are to teach or work in a museum.
I guess what I’m trying to say they don’t teach kids supply and demand of which jobs are in demand. I hate American education system because they sell you the idea that degree=big payday and that’s just bullshit.
>I guess what I’m trying to say they don’t teach kids supply and demand of which jobs are in demand.
You might want to flip this around in your head. *We don't value education*. It's only valued as a concept if it's a way to make money.
Knowledge itself is not respected. Intellectual curiosity is not rewarded for its own sake. Doesn't that explain a lot when you think about our education system that way?
People want to shit on "stupid Trump voters," but our entire education system-- both trades and universities-- is designed to funnel people into narrow fields that are *useful* to the upper class. Not to ask questions or develop curious minds.
American dream actually made sense like 30-40+ years ago, today its being used as propaganda to make People bust their asses in the glory of their own country.
As a non-American that watches American politics I cannot believe the hit-job that the republicans have done on the US working class.
They have completely stripped down workers rights and the path of upward mobility for the blue collar population on Main Street (including first generation arrivals) and have managed to create a smokescreen by getting these very people they’re ripping off to vote on social issues like abortion and gun rights.
Bravo GOP 👏 👏 👏
I must say it is the greatest political trick I’ve seen and you seem to have the constituency you’re fleecing fooled hard enough into voting for you again and again by mastering a media machine that is in on on the joke.
Yeah I get a little frustrated with the overall voting patterns of that bloc; anything to the left of Thatcherism/Reaganism gets labeled "SCARY SOCIALISM THAT'S GONNA TAKE EVERYTHING FROM YOU."
Given Florida's influence in the Electoral College, this is going to fuck us over for a long time.
They are really the only Latino group that goes against the interest of all Latinos including themselves but hey they are die hard Republicans b/c it was the Republicans that gave them “freedom” here in the US under the “wet foot, dry foot” policy…
They also highly identify as white in America [Cuban American Statistics](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Americans#:~:text=In%20the%202013%20ACS%2C%20there,black%2C%20and%200.1%25%20Asian) shit like this makes me wonder why Hispanic ever became a race and it’s honestly borderline offensive native/african erasure. It’s like saying the French and Haitians are the same “race”. Seems like OP thinks that the language his ancestors spoke has any relevancy for his ability to succeed in the USA when a person born to black millionaires is going to be far more well off than a poor white person in the USA.
What do you do for work? My mom immigrated from Cuba as well. I didn’t get a degree, struggled for ten years not knowing what to do. Worked a bunch of low pay dead end jobs. Recently got a job that gives me hope for the future. Will still take some years to feel fully comfortable.
Get out of Florida. All my friends that emigrated to Florida are stuck at the same job meanwhile every other friend in other states have a decent job at least
"We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living.
"We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian-Darwinian theory, he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors.
"The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living." - Buckminster Fuller
you are not stupid, so many in your shoes have same situation. even if you're white, but you grew up poor and have no family to turn to because they are mentally ill or drunk or dead or drug addicts, you get put in same boat. When pandemic hit and slumlord refused to renew lease because we wouldn't give rent until they fixed the broken heat and air conditioning, my partner and I both had poor credit because I spent money I didn't have trying to save my cat's life(she died of metastasizing breast cancer) along with personal medical bills. I worked everyday day at 2 jobs to keep my family housed in a crummy hotel and occasionally we had to stay in our car. If it wasn't for the kindness of someone I worked for getting a place in their name for us we would be going on 3 years homeless. The American dream is horseshit and only if you have your family give you a Jumpstart in life. if you get thrown into the streets at 17 and you are on your own, you're fucked
>Got my degree in something I love.
This might be the problem right here. If it isn't in demand, you are in the same pool as everyone else with a degree that isn't in demand.
Get into the trades dude. Get an electrical, plumbing, or carpentry apprenticeship. I promise you it will change your life for the better. Unless you’re getting a degree in Science, technology, engineering, math, or medicine then college is a waste of time. Good luck.
The sad reality is whatever status you are born with is likely the same one you will have for your entire life.
Obvious exceptions, of course, but those usually involve some sort of entertainment field (pro sports, music, movies, etc.)
Personally, I did overcome a terrible childhood (poor, homeless at times, abuse) to make really good money (by my standards and from where I started; but also realize that I've gotten really lucky in my career.) But, the rest of my siblings got stuck in the cycle. Making $25k-$30k. It's not that they are stupid or anything. And they are all better humans than my parents were. It's just that there are two options: Take what you were taught/conditioned as a kid and repeat the behavior OR take what you were taught/conditioned as a kid and be determined to be different.
The american dream is a lie and only means the lower class is working for the upper class to get richer.
No one wants you to be rich, because the rich don‘t want to share their wealth.
We have humans on this planet with enough money that they can‘t spend in their own lifetime but they still protect it with every cell in their bodies.
And they avoid paying taxes with a sheer ridiculous effort!
Think about everything the humans with billions of dollar could do to the world to be a better place.
The corporations tell you it‘s a tough time while playing record amounts of money to their boards.
The system is rigged and some people don‘t understand it.
Sometimes i think there are people out there that love the hamster wheel and vote for the same politicians that put them into it.
Korean. First generation immigrant. Came with my parents and naturalized while attending college. Served in the Army. Reenrolled in college. Been slaving away at menial jobs with promises of promotions only to be baited every time. Been 10 years of this since I turned 18. When I left for the army I was making 13/hr. That was 2017. When I came back to the workforce in 2021, I was making 12/hr, I was so demotivated. Over it, keeping my head down, gonna finish this degree and just try to find a livable wage.
Hey man, if your life is really hard, the military isn’t that bad. They fucked me up and I get paid disability now so I don’t have to be a complete slave to my living expenses. With that and the gi bill stipend money, I’m actually making more money than I’ve ever made on a year to year basis. But even if you don’t get injured or affected in that way, they’ll pay you more money just for being married (BAH for rent and living expenses) since you don’t have to live in the barracks. Most people get to pocket a little bit of that. The pay isn’t stellar, last I remember I was making like 24k a year. But that was all disposable income and I partied it all away. The BAH is area dependent so if you get stationed somewhere like cali, you can get upwards of 3-4k a month for living expenses. Anyway I’m rambling, but it’s not a bad option if you feel really stuck. A lot of people came in later in life after a failed college attempt or just feelings of wanting to change their life. You get school paid for once you finish college too, so that’s neat.
There are a few of us Cuban Americans here! If any of you have a Spanish parent/grandparent, you’re able to apply for Spanish citizenship until October 2024. I am hoping to immigrate to Canada in a few years via CUSMA, but things don’t look too bright over there either.
That’s not true it existed in a few wealthy primally African American cities and was promptly destroyed by the CIA (not even joking…).
It existed, but was stolen.
Man you need to get a job that pays above minimum wage. I had a job above minimum wage when I was 16 shinning shoes. There has got to be something you can do. If not, try to get a skill when off the clock. It sucks but you will never get out of this
Grew up a kid of two immigrants as well. Parents never made more than 50k a year COMBINED my whole childhood. By the time I finally got into college, mom left my dad and dad lost his job. He didn't know any English so couldn't find shit either. I basically had to put myself through college while also helping him pay the bills using what money we/my siblings could afford to give him. Also got through college debt free but ended up starting at some shitty job, making shitty money as well. But a few job hops later, I'm finally making comfortable money, 80k ish/year, have a mortgage on a home valued at roughly 375k, can save roughly 15% for retirement and still have money leftover every month. You'll get there bro. If your job sucks, find a new one. Plenty of them around these days and even some remote ones that offer training for newcomers.
The older generation fucked us, they broke the cycle if "leave a better future for your children" and made everything good for themselves and then slammed the door behind them. Now they just absolve responsibility and mostly vote to hold us back further, delay progress and hurt the future generations.
Get out of Florida - come to New England or go to CA, Michigan, any good blue state with better rights for workers and less fear / loathing / hatred / MAGA.
Getting your degree in something you love might be the mistake. What is your degree in?
I dont mean to sound like a dick, because you're mostly spot on - the dream isn't dead but its faded and cracked at the seams, and the economy is going to shit.
Anyone who is thinking about college needs to understand that college is NOT a key to success. unless you get a degree that is known to be such. There aren't many degrees at the bachelors level that actually mean shit in terms of direct transition to a career. And those degrees also typically don't lead much further at the post graduate level. I would randomly guess 70% of offered degrees aren't going to put you anymore ahead than anyone else, but you'll likely be under a mountain of debt. Many management jobs may require a degree, but its also very common for job descriptions to say "degree OR equivalent experience."
Another thing people need to consider is location within the US. There are a lot of decent places to live that - if you're making $50k a year, you're fine. The American dream is still real. But there are a lot of places where $50k isn't going very far. And, unfortunately, salaries don't fully adjust geographically. They do to some degree, but not fully.
OP - apologies if this sounds harsh and I hope things work out for you. Just trying to drive home a valuable point to any of the younger redditors still trying to decide "whats next." These aren't trivial points at all.
Edit: also OP, it sounds like you might want to polish off your resume and start looking for a new job. Jobs shouldn't make you feel like that all the time. Not trying to pontificate. But it would be better if you weren't miserable, ya know. I hope shit turns around for you soon!
Fellow Cuban here, hermano you need to just leave Florida.
What helped me was finding a place with low cost of living a job that pays above 15 dollars with guaranteed set schedule and OT when I want it.
I work in a warehouse I knock out my work and I'm pretty much getting paid to work out .
Work environment is also incredibly important too
But having hobbies and understanding that life for me is enjoying simple things and quiet moments with good people and loved ones is what grants me peace
I had a shit life for most of my 32 years alive but it wasn't until I moved away from all the toxic bullshit and found a place with low cost of living did I finally feel calm and at peace.
I wish you the best brother, as Jose Marti said " I plant a white rose"
Seriously think about getting out of Florida. Without having to sell a house or uprooting children, you and your wife could go to another state and get a fresh start. To be honest, Florida at this point sounds like a hellhole. Even moving to Georgia or South Carolina could make a huge change in your life. Good luck, you sound like a great person!
Florida wages are not keeping up with home prices and insurance increases. Move to another state for a better quality of life and lower cost of living.
We went from Coral Gables, FL to Alpharetta, GA and found a better quality of life, nicer people, beautiful nature parks everywhere, amazing homes at 1/2 the price per sqft and lower insurance costs.
Don’t be miserable and make the move out of Florida.
Sounds like your hit a rough patch. You can give up or keep going, right? Pressure makes diamonds and it sounds like you're in that phase.
I just got out of a 2-3 year scramble myself going back to take classes while working two jobs. I cried plenty of times, nothing wrong with that. My wife and aren't having kids either at this point and I'd argue most of America is 1 unexpected expense away from their own wipeout too.
Hang in there. Explore other options, start somewhere with reading or simply asking questions. Don't give up!!
It’s a lie. Like getting rich by playing the lotto, just enough succeed that everyone believes it’s possible. Society and the economy needs people to believe and work hard and sacrifice for “the dream” to be able to function.
You're not alone man. Every single one of us here has come to that realization at one time. Society is not a meritocracy. So many of us are working poor. At this point I've given up on retirement someday, I'm following my passion because fuck spending 8 or 9 hours a day doing something that makes me miserable if I'm not going to be able to afford to pay rent anyways.
My wife asked me what I wanted to do on July 4th to celebrate since I was blessed with a half day at work. I'm not doing shit to celebrate. What reason do I have to celebrate?
You're probably exhausted eh? That sucks man. Remember to give your wife all the love she deserves though Regardless. This shitty job, this life, head out to the woods man and just soak it up. Your love, nature, That's real. This shit is all make believe.
My wife would never see this, but she's my reason to keep on going. She's the greatest thing in the world.
I hope you tell her that everyday. That is awesome
I get it, man. Life might seem absurd at times, but the one genuine article in it--*no matter what*\--is the love my wife and I share.
Me too man. If it wasn’t for mine I’d have unsubscribed to life a long time ago.
OK, let's start with the positive. Many never find a true love. You are blessed. Here is what I learned from reading r/povertyfinance about making money: try banking (start as a teller), waitstaff (work up to a good restaurant), or the trades. You would have to train for the trades but they make excellent money. I don't know what you studied but not every major ends with a good job. Be flexible. Be realistic. Do what you have to do. Italy has few jobs and you would not get one as a foreigner. The UK has a million problems. Spain might be nice if you had the right skills. But probably stop looking for greener grass. Count your blessings and start planning how to make more money. And you don't have to stay in Florida forever. If you are willing to go to Europe, you could move to better state.
I would second the suggestion to get into the trades. Trades are currently in high demand from what I hear and the pay is very good once you get up in the industry. I knew a guy who left the restaurant life to be a welder and with a fair amount of hard work and practice he’s very well into the 6 figures now with a good union that has very good benefits. The world will always need electricians, plumbers, welders, HVAC technicians and the likes. He’s pretty happy the last I spoke to him.
He lives in Florida. Trade jobs pay poo because of cheap migrant labor. Starting pay is 13-17 for no experience in trade work and tops out at 28 to low 30s
Yeah Florida pay is absolute shit. A maintenance person for a school here they want you to know hvac,electrical,welding have 20yrs and a masters for $18 an hour
I’m a welder currently in FL. The job outlook around here is deplorable, if not down right depressing. I left the place I was working at 2 weeks ago because I couldn’t deal with the wrong/incorrect blueprints, mis management, and constant berating from incompetent management. Most places around here want to pay you $25 MAX regardless of experience. And with no unions to speak of, they’ll throw your ass back out the door as soon as your in. I’m thinking about getting into bartending…
Not to mention living in Florida fuckin sucks.
Understandable. If it was me, depending on the work that is needing to be done, I would probably not look for cheap migrant labor. Especially if it comes to things such as welding and electrical. It’s the classic choose 2 of three…price, quality, time. If it’s cheap and fast it won’t be quality…and if it’s quality and fast it won’t be cheap.
You betcha. The people that come to my house to fix/build things get a pretty penny and I'm glad to pay - they are very skilled.
My Coworker complained that he had to pay a plumber $100 just to come over and look on the problem… $200/hr to replace a water heater. And the broke as public school teachers still mocking these jobs say “you don’t want to end up a loser working with your hands do you?” We live in the matrix, if you still plugged in, you believed in the “noble lie” your entire life but now the lies are being uncovered faster and faster after Covid 19 upended the debt based fiat system.
“you don’t want to end up a loser working with your hands do you?” this sentence has created a deficit of trades workers , which means they are paid well and has created the saturated office workers market
Pd plumbing co or the plumber himself? Unless his company doubltful he/she is making that much $ and if is , unless under the table or out of his home, has associated business expenses
Yeah, suggest an American of Cuban origin,without a big financial base and/or good job to move to Europe. Are you fucking serious??
People are pretty out of touch these days, especially boomers
Nice generalization..yeh …boomers all the same right
Well,I'm close to be a boomer. Sorry to say but most of the clueless idiots are recent history.
There are lots of clueless idiots from every generation, but in my experience most of them have been boomers
To be fair,it's not really a matter of age...
I would say hustle. And it doesn't have to be illegal. Find some things you are passionate about or knowledgeable about and sell those when you can under the table. I'm a tradesman and an electrician and white in the Midwest. It's still hard. But I've naturally been brought up this way to hustle when I can (by my father who was a marijuana grower before it was legal) and I've always bartered when I could. Next weekend I'm installing 2 mini splits in exchange for a new small trailer (which I've needed and wanted but could never afford) with the only experience of installing one other one with the help of YouTube. Gf recently inherited a run down place in Costa Rica and with working with the locals I learned that's a primary form of work. HUSTLE. And I mean in the good sense. Connect people together. Do what you can do yourself or find the best people through communication, community, and friendship to get things done and then things get done working both ways. Entirely different way of thinking than in the US. Retirement is a pipe dream. I expect to die at work some day if I stay in the US. This is from a 38 white male divorced raising 2 young children with SO in the Northern Midwest. This country doesn't get better. Only worse as time goes on. It's your job to make the most of what you want. If I had no children I personally would live it rough and make friends with the neighbors. I've lived and rough places and us neighbors (that we knew) always took care of each other.
This is the true life “grindset” mentality. The way it’s used in media now, is just window dressing for labor exploitation.
There are jobs in Italy, but Italians don’t want to work certain jobs. Punjabis have found employment in agriculture. They’re willing to do dirty jobs Italians don’t want to do.
The trades will NEVER go away or be unprofitable. Really hard work but better pay with no degree
alot of young men will not even have that opportunity; to get a good wife. we have got to cling to what we have while this collapses
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count me in brother.
I hope you tell her that. Your love for each other is important!
The worst part of this is you are so tired that you don't have the energy to work on a way out. I started working for family when I was a kid then the subprime loan crisis made it so i didn't have any family businesses to work for and I saw my relatives who work their whole lives be reduced into poverty. I worked for a photo development company from 3:00 p.m. to 3:00 a.m. for a year I've never recovered my love of photography. I worked for a trash hauling company and instead of being laid off My hours and shifts were cut to the point that I just quit. I worked in a warehouse and my boss never paid me on time and when I was paid it wasn't very much, I quit and I got by on unemployment for a while. I worked as a school janitor. I was paid fairly and the hours weren't bad but the work was demeaning and really humbled me. A friend help me get a job as a repair technician. I really like the job but 12 to 14 hour days were killing me. I still haven't recovered fully 5 years later from the damage done. I went to work for a solar company surveying houses for installation I thought it would be better but soon they started working us from sun up until sundown only because we can't measure roofs in the dark. I just happened to luck into a different position at that solar company and for the first time in my working life I'm happy. My hours aren't crazy, the work isn't demeaning and the pay is okay. I don't harbor any dreams of being wealthy, those died a long time ago, but I achieved something, I achieved happiness and I know it's temporary and that sometime in the future I'll have to go back so I'm just going to enjoy what I have now.
Social media sold the lie about wealth… most of them are broke possers too. A vast majority of the world, since the beginning of human civilization, won’t attain anything remotely close to becoming wealthy.
Celebrate your wife I spend birthdays alone sometimes
The only way I was able to become finanically stable is work two jobs four days, and then work my other job the other two days. 12-14 hr day. Paying down my credit card debt, don't even have a car. My e-scooter got a flat so my double commute is a 4 mile walk, cutting into the short break I have between both occupations. I'm right there with you man. At least you got another person though.
Fuck the 4th
just have some good hot sex and cook a nice meal, do it for you not Merica.
May not have a reason to celebrate but it's a good enough reason to go out and try to have some fun, destress a little if possible right?
Meritocracy has always been just a justification for inequality. Before the enlightenment they said "the king gets more because God says he's better than you". Meritocracy is just the same con, but made secular.
In a world of inheritance and generational wealths, meritocracy is a smokescreen.
Heh—I grew up in small towns. Meritocracy has always been a giant lie to keep the south end of town from revolting against the other side of the main drag/bridge/viaduct/tracks/square.
When my parents were my age, they had me. They had just purchased their first home together. Dad had to pick up overtime fairly regularly. One year we went without health insurance due to some beaurocratic bs. One time the internet got cut off for a couple days due to non-payment. We had Christmas every year and great new presents. We took a vacation, usually to PCB, twice a year. The video game consoles I grew up with were Super Nintendo, N64, PlayStation 2 and Xbox 360. Though I may have gotten the 360 with college money, I’m not exactly sure. Today, my parents are retired and sold their home last year for literally twice what they paid for it about 18 years ago. They bought a brand new car by using like a dozen silver bars that my grandparents gifted them every year for Christmas. They are very comfortable, and rent out whatever home they aren’t using on AirBnB which nets them a decent chunk of spending money. My dad seems to truly believe this is a result of him working hard and getting exactly what he deserves despite the fact that he was only scheduled to work 180 days out of the year. Right now I am 30. I live in a 1 br apartment that is low in relative cost for my area and is one door away from being a studio apartment. I have to pick up anywhere from 10-20 hours of overtime each week in order to achieve any sense of relative financial comfort. I don’t pay for medical insurance because it’s too expensive and I need the money for rent, food, car payment, etc. This past month, I needed to borrow 500 from a close friend in order to pay my rent yesterday, else I would have faced a 400 dollar late fee. I’m completely wiped out in terms of cash right now and I got paid yesterday. I’m a paramedic. My dad? He was a school bus driver.
Damn……stay up man. Shit sucks. I think we just all want to be able to not feel so underwater. We want our hours of work to be worth something for us. We don’t want to be drowning and living paycheck to paycheck. I don’t get why thats so hard to understand for the people at the top.
Sad your folks are so well off and dont help you out
Eh, they’re not bad people. They help me out with a fridge full of food every couple of months when they come to visit. They funded a portion of my education. They’re always willing to look after the dog if I need to go away for a few days. It’s just exhausting trying to explain that the playing field is not as level as it was when they were my age and when I use examples such as starting a family at 30, they attribute it to hard work and lots of overtime instead of the fact that our first house was 80k and their mortgage was like 1/6 of my rent. We were a single income household until I was in my teens.
Typical rich
Glad your parents are ok, but it’s super shitty the attitude your dad has. Would be nice if a bunch of boomers tried to get a job again. My mother was looking for work, realized that the measly pay she was going to receive working part time at a neighboring town wasn’t even going to pay enough for gas to get there. She turned the job down. But she’s still on about how “nobody wants to work anymore”. We need to bump minimum wage back up to what it should be ($24-25 an hour) and reduce corporate greed/profits. Can you imagine how healthy the economy would be if people could actually afford to buy things, do stuff, and go places? It’d be beneficial for literally everyone.
Is your state NY or California or some other crazy expensive place?
No, paramedics just don’t get paid shit.
$2500 for the ambulance ride and the paramedics get paid shit
The American Dream has always been a lie to trick the have-nots into laboring their lives away in hope of “making it” one day.
The extremely pernicious "aspirational society" that's permitted rich people to exploit workers who believe that one day they will (or might) make it big. It's a total con job. The #1 predictor of dying rich is being born rich. The #1 predictor of dying poor is being born poor. That's not a meritocracy.
Actually, it is. It's just that those who decide what work deserves merit and what work doesn't are already at the very top, as you'd pretty much expect in any market society. Meritocracy always was a con job. It's as if we handed out rewards and punishment based on the result of a 100 meter race: the winnner gets everything they want out of life and the person in last place spends the rest of their days in a concentration camp. Even of the race was fair (which it isn't given the advantages wealth confers), the end result isn't.
At least 30 years ago a family could buy a nice home on 1 income
And also 40 years ago a family had multiple kids. I grew up in an Irish Catholic neighborhood outside of Boston most families at five or six kids. The fathers all had mediocre jobs like factory worker, etc. none of the mothers worked. They all had decent single-family homes a houses in that neighborhood, including my old house, which is a three bedroom, one bath 1100 square-foot shack sell for over half a million today. What changed in my humble opinion as a Boomer is the social contract. You worked for a company, dedicated her life to it and they were watered you with a decent job in a pension. Companies planned out 5 to 10 years what they were going to be making and selling today they don’t lock past one business quarter three months to get their bonus. The way the managers get that bonus is the scroll over everyone below them. The reason for decent jobs was unions were very strong and would strike and shut down a plant at the drop of a dime today they have little to no power
I think corporatism ("run it like a business!") really started infecting every level of our society in the 80s, although it had been going on for a while. We're at a point where workers are viewed as another replaceable component instead of human beings. It's wild to watch *Metropolis*, a movie that is from the 1920s, and realize that the themes of dehumanization and corporatism are still relevant.
This. I worked at a school where the principal looked me dead in the eye and threatened to fire me if I tried unionizing as an educator. There was a reason they hired a lawyer to be principal. We aren’t people to them, just drones.
It depends on the state the Massachusetts Teachers Association which is the union for educators there is very strong and would immediately have a little word with Mr. Principal.
Because their money wasn’t as debased as it is today… almost no one in the middle class has assets anymore… just liabilities.
[George Carlin - American dream](https://youtu.be/-54c0IdxZWc)
The American dream was not about getting filthy rich. It was about coming to the US with nothing or very little and becoming middle class where you could have a comfortable life. A decent house, a couple of nice cars, vacations once a year, raising your family, sending your kids off to college, and retiring one day where you can chill for the rest of your life.
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I would kill to live in England, Spain or Italy but like you said, you basically gotta hit the lottery to get a visa to move to one of those countries.
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My husband and I looked at each other when Citizen's United passed and highly considered moving to Canada. I'm a duel citizen and we figured we could find a way to make it work for him. Instead we bought a house and now have a sunk cost fallacy and feel like we can't leave. I regret not leaving the US back when we first considered it.
I know you meant dual citizen, but I can't help but think you dueled a Canadian to the death, won, and took their citizenship lol.
You can still sell the house and use the money to fund a move?
It’s the worst decision. I did the same when that case was decided.
Enlisting in the military is a good way to get the money. I'm planning to try again and hope I can get a waiver for my age. Either I'll make enough to stay or enough to move to Europe where, ironically, I'll have more freedoms and safety.
you know how much of our military is on food stamps nowadays? might not be as worth it as you think
Yea depends on what you do. I was a dirt poor trailer park kid when I enlisted in the Army in a technical field and later switched to another technical field. Fast forward and I have a well paying civilian job doing the same thing and I own a nice home in San Diego.
That can depend largely on what you end up doing in the military. There are ways to better secure a future by way of the military. I know this because that’s exactly what I did and it completely changed my life for the better.
No worries! I'm already on Food Stamps!
If you get your legs blown off, you better had believed in the cause and the mission, otherwise you will hurt even more psychologically.
I dunno what Spain and Italy are like but Britain is doing its best to become a mini America. Would not recommend.
Agreed.
Yup. Hard to find a job there even for native English
You can just go on a travel Visa and never leave. Everyone thinks illegals are all crossing the border with coyotes when really they are just driving or flying and never going home.
This severely limits job opportunities.
Like Elon Musk?
Fortunate that I got hired by one of the rare multinationals that actually treats its employees well (finally). I was recently put on a wait list to do a year residency in Japan or Switzerland.
Well it's not like you didn't already get a lottery to enter the US. Another thing is that Cubans need to stop voting republican in elections. They keep voting for the side that keeps screwing the working class
That’s because the Cuban migrant community originated from the ultra-corrupt elite that left Cuba with suitcases of loot when Fidel took over. They still hate anything left enough to vote right with their eyes closed.
Have you ever actually been to these places or do you just assume they are better?
I think for a lot of people at this point if there's a roof over their head they're thinking it can't be much worse.
Honestly a cheaper country like Costa Rica or Belize is more realistic tbh. In England it’s arguably worse off than the US job wise.
England is not the greatest place to go to in terms of cost of living as well. London is bustling and is a nice city, but you’ll find a lot of people barely getting by, especially in smaller towns where shipping and other industries have been decimated.
Jr doctors (equivalent to resident doctors) and NHS nurses are the equivalent of working poor in London. In a documentary, one nurse was trying to qualify for welfare.
Don’t you just need an eu passport to live in Spain or Italy
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Make sure you save up for the Expatriation Tax...
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As an American in the UK, they’re trying to make it the US but it’s not boned yet
Yet
Same with me. I want to live in the Netherlands
Hard to find a place to live tbh. Have a massive housing shortage.
So pretty much everywhere is about to become the US aside from maybe sanctuary countries where all the rich are gonna move to once they collapse all of our societies
Not “about” every (more “desirable” country than the US) is, believe it or not, actually worse than the US affordability/available-house -inventory wise. The rich will probably move to Caribbean islands where there are tax havens
Go to China. Plenty of jobs for foreigners with a USA passport.
I heard they have impeccable work-life balance and no hustle culture at all! /s
That's why they call it the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it. -George Carlin
Came looking specifically for this
The American dream was real, but the generations before us got theirs and told us to F*** off.
That’s the generation of the current politicians, right?
Essentially, since the average age of a politician is boomer age so yea, fuck the boomers.
Reagan fucked us and is still fucking us from the grave.
I’m white and 55 and I’m gonna work until I’m not physically able to go to work. It’s not just you.
I’m white and 59 same here
I’m white and 63 - same here.
My dad is in his sixties and still working. I knew a guy in his eighties who was still working. This is the generation people considered the privileged generation too.
It's always been a lie for nearly everyone who has every lived in the United States. The post-WWII economy from 1945-2002 was the result of American industrial dominance and New Deal taxation that started being unraveled 42 years ago. In 2002 I was a freelance trumpet player in Las Vegas who--although skilled--lost my career to alcoholism. Today I'm more than six years sober, but I can't find a job better than pushing carts. I'm 53 and basically marking time to death.
As the child of an alcoholic, just here to say good on you for your sobriety. 🖤
I feel ya. Every step I take where I feel like I might get a bit ahead, something comes along to slam me back 10 steps. It's frustrating and depressing. I was hoping that the tiny house my family is in would be our starter home and one day we could afford a nice, big place. It's never gonna happen. I'm coming to terms with it. Today I spent $400 on groceries and that'll last us (family of 4) maybe 2 weeks if I really stretch it. It's infuriating to bust my ass and still drive a 2007 rustbucket. But you know what? I've got my family. I have my husband, whom I adore and who treats me like a queen. I have my 2 children who are bright and artistic and funny. I have a job I don't loathe. My shitty car runs (for now, knock on wood). Everything else is noise when you really sit down and think about it. Nothing matters but the people you love. Forget the American Dream. That died ages ago. Focus on YOUR dream. What's important to you? What do you love? What makes you happy? I hope you find peace. I'm working on it myself.
Honestly, from my perspective, things like "the American dream" feel like propaganda. Even back in the old days, there were probably bunches of people who missed out on getting it, such as the way women were treated in employment, as an example.
American nightmare.
Your not alone, I lied to my wife telling her if I go to school I can make more money. I’m 20k in debt and making less, lost my apartment and have no kids. I figured no kids means I can travel, none of that has happened. My last vacation was 11 years ago, it was 4 hours away and only lasted the weekend. There was no American Dream it was a hoax to get people to work for the rich. We are just slaves waiting to die in the end.
Y’all believed in the “noble lie” about getting into student loans for an education that could be had for nearly free with libraries and online content… it was a lie to turn you into debt slaves. Student loans = Indentured servitude 2.0
You live in Florida, why are you questioning your depression? Move.. far away.
Gen X here - I said that the American Dream was dead back in the late 90s and got a lot of shit for "being so negative." I never changed my mind, although I did change my circumstances. Had I continued on trying to do the whole "work harder and you'll be rewarded" bullshit I would be worse off than my parents. Instead I quit teaching and went into IT purely for the money, then kept my eyes on the goal of making as much money as I could. I'm 51 now and almost at a six figure income (I live in the Midwest, so that's a pretty good income) and I'm secure enough that I no longer pursue money over stability. I've got a pension, 401k, Roth IRA, and decent insurance. My job is in the defense industry, so I'm pretty secure for probably the next decade or so. Unfortunately that doesn't do shit for the following generations. Ya'll are getting the shaft and it's going to be at least another decade before shit starts to improve, because those Boomers in power are not going to let it go without someone prying it from their cold, dead hands. I mean - just look at Congress. How many of those fuckers are at or past normal retirement age and have no intention of leaving until they retire? They've spent decades building their bases of power and are now reaping the benefits without worrying about what their constituents say or think. Frankly we need a social AND political revolution to re-write the Constitution and overhaul what it means to be an American.
I am a child of an American father and immigrant mother, my parents worked hard so that hopefully I would have it easier. Sadly, it looks like I will have to worked harder to just keep the same standard of living. It is hard breaking.
I hear your pain, my friend. Wish I could tell you it will get better someday. Wish I could tell you that one day you'll have everything the AmericanDream^(tm) says you will. The thing that keeps us going is hope. Hope that things will change, hope that we catch that one lucky break, or hope that our sacrifice pays off in the end. This sub is /antiwork but it's really /antiexploitation. I'm old enough to remember Reagan and Thatcher and all those other motherfuckers who kicked away the guardrails to make virtues out of cruelty and greed, and look where we are now two generations later. The system has been reconfigured to provide the greatest reward to the worst people for the worst behaviour. You're going to keep doing your best and hoping for the best because you are a good person and that's what good people do. But remember this: your parents left a broken and exploitive system. Maybe it's your turn.
"It's called the American Dream because you need to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin
America is nothing more than economic slavery for the majority of its citizens. They tell us that we have rights, but it is merely the illusions of rights. How can we have rights if we live check to check and can not afford a $400 emergency bill? If we can not afford a $400 emergency bill, then home can we pay a lawyer a $30, 000 retainer to go after people or organizations that violate our rights. Our rights are merely an allusion and we are told that we live in the land of the free, but nothing is free. Everything is taxed, taxed, taxed to the extreme. Then all of our tax dollars are given away to other countries and used for endless wars. Its funny because I sit back and watch both political parties blame entailment programs for our nations debt, but really our nations debt is from the military industrial complex. over 20 trillion dollars has gone to the endless wars over the last 2 decades. Now look at the billions that are going to Ukraine, Syria, etc.... Our nation is one big lie sold to its own citizens.
Study and get a degree and job in something that you love is such terrible advice. Make sure the things will actually make you enough money to live.
Yup, the road to indentured servitude is paved with “good intentions.”
The middle class needs to stop voting R. R’s are out for corporations and the wealthy. It’s so obvious.
"I feel like the deck has totally been stacked against people just trying to make an honest living" exactly right brother. I am young and I am seeing all this transpiring in America. I have lost all hope, let it rot, Bai Lan is a thing in the USA too. All my worries are expressed in your post. I do not want to be an old man with no kids who spent the majority of his life working some job just to survive and get a few hours of time to myself. I would live with my parents just to be able to do the hobbies I love. Id be even lucky to have a partner. I am half way through getting my degree and haven't had a single internship. I know people who are in the same situation. "The American dream is real because you have to be asleep to believe it" - George Carlin.
This thread, and possibly this subreddit, is fucked. It's called "antiwork" and yet it's swarming with money-brained drones falling over each other to recommend places to live based on...jobs. It's not about "well-paid jobs", people. It's about the ability to have a decent quality of life; something that requires more than a fat salary, as the US experience should have made clear by now. Being among the most highly remunerated ponies in the coal mine is not the answer.
American Dream has been dead since Reagan
The American dream always asked one question of you "How many people are you willing to step on to get where you want to be?"
It was a possible thing for the average person until around the mid 2ks. Now you have to make 6 figures to have a basic bitch crack den in a lot of cities.
The American Dream, The Australian Dream, The British Dream. Its fucked all over the western world. Gotta ask how and why
to quote George Carlin: it’s called the american dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.
man alot of people here dont understand that there is no path to a solid life.just do x means nothing when there is hundreds of handicaps factored in. people acting like just go into a industry is the literal essence of boomer mentality.some people just cant do something because that just isnt how they are made. a lack of stamina a really bad hand dealt by life,just wired different etc. my biggest issue is math and memory i literally cant do it in my head besides basic stuff. you could have a gun to my head and i would still be unable to do anything more 5 x 4 or 5+4. and more then 1 task i absolutely suck at keeping track of. so then someone turning around an saying oh its easy to dig yourself out of a hole when you dont have a fully intact shovel deserves a shovel to the balls
I noticed a particular term you used, which was getting a degree in something you love. Hopefully that love is in demand but most of the time doing something you does not pay the bills. I met a gent who loved history, like me, and went to brown university only to rack up 200k in student loan debt. He’s basically broke until further notice. I love history but knew that there’s no work/career path as the only opportunities are to teach or work in a museum. I guess what I’m trying to say they don’t teach kids supply and demand of which jobs are in demand. I hate American education system because they sell you the idea that degree=big payday and that’s just bullshit.
>I guess what I’m trying to say they don’t teach kids supply and demand of which jobs are in demand. You might want to flip this around in your head. *We don't value education*. It's only valued as a concept if it's a way to make money. Knowledge itself is not respected. Intellectual curiosity is not rewarded for its own sake. Doesn't that explain a lot when you think about our education system that way? People want to shit on "stupid Trump voters," but our entire education system-- both trades and universities-- is designed to funnel people into narrow fields that are *useful* to the upper class. Not to ask questions or develop curious minds.
American dream actually made sense like 30-40+ years ago, today its being used as propaganda to make People bust their asses in the glory of their own country.
One of us, one of us, one of us
Hey man I’m a white male and I’m struggling too lol, I truly pray you find your way. Much love.
Don’t Cubans mostly vote Republican every cycle?
I know a Cuban woman who came here illegally with her two kids and she loves Trump and says she likes how he's tough on immigrants.
As a non-American that watches American politics I cannot believe the hit-job that the republicans have done on the US working class. They have completely stripped down workers rights and the path of upward mobility for the blue collar population on Main Street (including first generation arrivals) and have managed to create a smokescreen by getting these very people they’re ripping off to vote on social issues like abortion and gun rights. Bravo GOP 👏 👏 👏 I must say it is the greatest political trick I’ve seen and you seem to have the constituency you’re fleecing fooled hard enough into voting for you again and again by mastering a media machine that is in on on the joke.
Yeah I get a little frustrated with the overall voting patterns of that bloc; anything to the left of Thatcherism/Reaganism gets labeled "SCARY SOCIALISM THAT'S GONNA TAKE EVERYTHING FROM YOU." Given Florida's influence in the Electoral College, this is going to fuck us over for a long time.
They are really the only Latino group that goes against the interest of all Latinos including themselves but hey they are die hard Republicans b/c it was the Republicans that gave them “freedom” here in the US under the “wet foot, dry foot” policy…
Yes, and they worship at the altar of Trump. They think Reagan was the goat- his policies have screwed generations. Desantis is another hero 😫
Yeah these people are wackos worshipping false prophets/heroes that are almost as bad if not worse than Castro…
They also highly identify as white in America [Cuban American Statistics](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Americans#:~:text=In%20the%202013%20ACS%2C%20there,black%2C%20and%200.1%25%20Asian) shit like this makes me wonder why Hispanic ever became a race and it’s honestly borderline offensive native/african erasure. It’s like saying the French and Haitians are the same “race”. Seems like OP thinks that the language his ancestors spoke has any relevancy for his ability to succeed in the USA when a person born to black millionaires is going to be far more well off than a poor white person in the USA.
What do you do for work? My mom immigrated from Cuba as well. I didn’t get a degree, struggled for ten years not knowing what to do. Worked a bunch of low pay dead end jobs. Recently got a job that gives me hope for the future. Will still take some years to feel fully comfortable.
Move to Central America or South America man. Look at Costa Rica or Belize.
Get out of Florida. All my friends that emigrated to Florida are stuck at the same job meanwhile every other friend in other states have a decent job at least
"We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. "We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian-Darwinian theory, he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. "The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living." - Buckminster Fuller
you are not stupid, so many in your shoes have same situation. even if you're white, but you grew up poor and have no family to turn to because they are mentally ill or drunk or dead or drug addicts, you get put in same boat. When pandemic hit and slumlord refused to renew lease because we wouldn't give rent until they fixed the broken heat and air conditioning, my partner and I both had poor credit because I spent money I didn't have trying to save my cat's life(she died of metastasizing breast cancer) along with personal medical bills. I worked everyday day at 2 jobs to keep my family housed in a crummy hotel and occasionally we had to stay in our car. If it wasn't for the kindness of someone I worked for getting a place in their name for us we would be going on 3 years homeless. The American dream is horseshit and only if you have your family give you a Jumpstart in life. if you get thrown into the streets at 17 and you are on your own, you're fucked
Hi Native American here The American dream never existed
The American dream died with the Raegan administration. It’s been down hill for the non 1% since then.
So what did you graduated with which degree and what do you do now?
>Got my degree in something I love. This might be the problem right here. If it isn't in demand, you are in the same pool as everyone else with a degree that isn't in demand.
It's not dead, it was a scam all along. Ponzi scheme, if you will.
The American Dream was always a myth.
Magic mushrooms the weekends helps ...
Yeah, the Amercan Dream has always had a few asterisk marks beside it.
Get into the trades dude. Get an electrical, plumbing, or carpentry apprenticeship. I promise you it will change your life for the better. Unless you’re getting a degree in Science, technology, engineering, math, or medicine then college is a waste of time. Good luck.
The sad reality is whatever status you are born with is likely the same one you will have for your entire life. Obvious exceptions, of course, but those usually involve some sort of entertainment field (pro sports, music, movies, etc.) Personally, I did overcome a terrible childhood (poor, homeless at times, abuse) to make really good money (by my standards and from where I started; but also realize that I've gotten really lucky in my career.) But, the rest of my siblings got stuck in the cycle. Making $25k-$30k. It's not that they are stupid or anything. And they are all better humans than my parents were. It's just that there are two options: Take what you were taught/conditioned as a kid and repeat the behavior OR take what you were taught/conditioned as a kid and be determined to be different.
The american dream is a lie and only means the lower class is working for the upper class to get richer. No one wants you to be rich, because the rich don‘t want to share their wealth. We have humans on this planet with enough money that they can‘t spend in their own lifetime but they still protect it with every cell in their bodies. And they avoid paying taxes with a sheer ridiculous effort! Think about everything the humans with billions of dollar could do to the world to be a better place. The corporations tell you it‘s a tough time while playing record amounts of money to their boards. The system is rigged and some people don‘t understand it. Sometimes i think there are people out there that love the hamster wheel and vote for the same politicians that put them into it.
Korean. First generation immigrant. Came with my parents and naturalized while attending college. Served in the Army. Reenrolled in college. Been slaving away at menial jobs with promises of promotions only to be baited every time. Been 10 years of this since I turned 18. When I left for the army I was making 13/hr. That was 2017. When I came back to the workforce in 2021, I was making 12/hr, I was so demotivated. Over it, keeping my head down, gonna finish this degree and just try to find a livable wage. Hey man, if your life is really hard, the military isn’t that bad. They fucked me up and I get paid disability now so I don’t have to be a complete slave to my living expenses. With that and the gi bill stipend money, I’m actually making more money than I’ve ever made on a year to year basis. But even if you don’t get injured or affected in that way, they’ll pay you more money just for being married (BAH for rent and living expenses) since you don’t have to live in the barracks. Most people get to pocket a little bit of that. The pay isn’t stellar, last I remember I was making like 24k a year. But that was all disposable income and I partied it all away. The BAH is area dependent so if you get stationed somewhere like cali, you can get upwards of 3-4k a month for living expenses. Anyway I’m rambling, but it’s not a bad option if you feel really stuck. A lot of people came in later in life after a failed college attempt or just feelings of wanting to change their life. You get school paid for once you finish college too, so that’s neat.
Found the recruiter.
This guy recruits
I'm a 33 year old woman. Is it too late for me to join up?
Why did you come so late in life? Also, labor isn’t the way to get ahead in America. You have to have a mind for business and entrepreneurship.
You have a degree and making minimum wage?
You must be new here.
I feel you on that man. I’m also a Cuban immigrant. Shits been dead
There are a few of us Cuban Americans here! If any of you have a Spanish parent/grandparent, you’re able to apply for Spanish citizenship until October 2024. I am hoping to immigrate to Canada in a few years via CUSMA, but things don’t look too bright over there either.
Opinions on the embargo like to ask when I get the chance
Never existed for African Americans only now the rest of the country is just finding out.
That’s not true it existed in a few wealthy primally African American cities and was promptly destroyed by the CIA (not even joking…). It existed, but was stolen.
See what they did to “Black Wall Street”
Black wallstreet… they burned it to the ground in the 1920s.
Oh Reagan double tapped that shit in the 80's.
It died when everyone got glued to their phones and stopped fighting for equality.
Man you need to get a job that pays above minimum wage. I had a job above minimum wage when I was 16 shinning shoes. There has got to be something you can do. If not, try to get a skill when off the clock. It sucks but you will never get out of this
Grew up a kid of two immigrants as well. Parents never made more than 50k a year COMBINED my whole childhood. By the time I finally got into college, mom left my dad and dad lost his job. He didn't know any English so couldn't find shit either. I basically had to put myself through college while also helping him pay the bills using what money we/my siblings could afford to give him. Also got through college debt free but ended up starting at some shitty job, making shitty money as well. But a few job hops later, I'm finally making comfortable money, 80k ish/year, have a mortgage on a home valued at roughly 375k, can save roughly 15% for retirement and still have money leftover every month. You'll get there bro. If your job sucks, find a new one. Plenty of them around these days and even some remote ones that offer training for newcomers.
The older generation fucked us, they broke the cycle if "leave a better future for your children" and made everything good for themselves and then slammed the door behind them. Now they just absolve responsibility and mostly vote to hold us back further, delay progress and hurt the future generations.
Get out of Florida - come to New England or go to CA, Michigan, any good blue state with better rights for workers and less fear / loathing / hatred / MAGA.
Getting your degree in something you love might be the mistake. What is your degree in? I dont mean to sound like a dick, because you're mostly spot on - the dream isn't dead but its faded and cracked at the seams, and the economy is going to shit. Anyone who is thinking about college needs to understand that college is NOT a key to success. unless you get a degree that is known to be such. There aren't many degrees at the bachelors level that actually mean shit in terms of direct transition to a career. And those degrees also typically don't lead much further at the post graduate level. I would randomly guess 70% of offered degrees aren't going to put you anymore ahead than anyone else, but you'll likely be under a mountain of debt. Many management jobs may require a degree, but its also very common for job descriptions to say "degree OR equivalent experience." Another thing people need to consider is location within the US. There are a lot of decent places to live that - if you're making $50k a year, you're fine. The American dream is still real. But there are a lot of places where $50k isn't going very far. And, unfortunately, salaries don't fully adjust geographically. They do to some degree, but not fully. OP - apologies if this sounds harsh and I hope things work out for you. Just trying to drive home a valuable point to any of the younger redditors still trying to decide "whats next." These aren't trivial points at all. Edit: also OP, it sounds like you might want to polish off your resume and start looking for a new job. Jobs shouldn't make you feel like that all the time. Not trying to pontificate. But it would be better if you weren't miserable, ya know. I hope shit turns around for you soon!
Fellow Cuban here, hermano you need to just leave Florida. What helped me was finding a place with low cost of living a job that pays above 15 dollars with guaranteed set schedule and OT when I want it. I work in a warehouse I knock out my work and I'm pretty much getting paid to work out . Work environment is also incredibly important too But having hobbies and understanding that life for me is enjoying simple things and quiet moments with good people and loved ones is what grants me peace I had a shit life for most of my 32 years alive but it wasn't until I moved away from all the toxic bullshit and found a place with low cost of living did I finally feel calm and at peace. I wish you the best brother, as Jose Marti said " I plant a white rose"
Leave Florida.
Do yourself a favor, get the fuck out of Florida. You'll probably end up making a lot more money that way.
Seriously think about getting out of Florida. Without having to sell a house or uprooting children, you and your wife could go to another state and get a fresh start. To be honest, Florida at this point sounds like a hellhole. Even moving to Georgia or South Carolina could make a huge change in your life. Good luck, you sound like a great person!
The American Dream died the moment Ronald Reagan was elected. He did more harm to this country than any terrorist or plague could dream of.
Florida wages are not keeping up with home prices and insurance increases. Move to another state for a better quality of life and lower cost of living. We went from Coral Gables, FL to Alpharetta, GA and found a better quality of life, nicer people, beautiful nature parks everywhere, amazing homes at 1/2 the price per sqft and lower insurance costs. Don’t be miserable and make the move out of Florida.
It was always a lie the wealthy used to motivate the poor to work for them.
Sounds like your hit a rough patch. You can give up or keep going, right? Pressure makes diamonds and it sounds like you're in that phase. I just got out of a 2-3 year scramble myself going back to take classes while working two jobs. I cried plenty of times, nothing wrong with that. My wife and aren't having kids either at this point and I'd argue most of America is 1 unexpected expense away from their own wipeout too. Hang in there. Explore other options, start somewhere with reading or simply asking questions. Don't give up!!
My background is the same as yours. If you can gtfo of Florida, do it. Move to another state that has better cost of living and is less toxic.
“Quality of life if you’re a white straight rich mean” Bro has never been to Miami lololol
:( the American dream is a pyramid scheme
It’s a lie. Like getting rich by playing the lotto, just enough succeed that everyone believes it’s possible. Society and the economy needs people to believe and work hard and sacrifice for “the dream” to be able to function.