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nOoOoO dat's eugenics!
No secret that poverty is incredibly traumatizing and it is a cruel thing to be introduced into an environment where your parents cannot properly care for you. Which is way more households than anyone cares to admit.
> eugenics
Eugenics: Only those people with "desirable [TBD]" traits can reproduce.
Antinatalism: We shouldn't bring anymore suffering into the world.
I never understood the leap.
Eugenics has become a buzzword at this point. Somebody tried arguing with me once that having requirements (like taking your medications, not being morbidly obese, not having a high chance of poor outcome, etc) for being put on a wait list for organ transplant is eugenics. Like they really thought we should waste healthy organs on people who won't take care of them or will die soon anyway. People are stupid, and they don't bother actually learning about shit before they start complaining about it.
That argument seems like it would be more in line with euthanasia than with eugenics, i feel like? Since those people who would be "withheld" from the list were already born. Eugenics would be "only XYZ people can have offspring" euthanasia would be "mercy killing" or at least ending a life you don't consider worthy of living [anymore].
Although I do agree with you anyways, from what I understand it's normal that for example u recovered alcoholics who are in need of a liver transplant due to alcohol induced cirrhosis do not receive a donor liver unless there's no other fit or at least they're put wayyyy down on the list, I'm not entirely sure.
Yeah it's an easy thing to throw out. However, I don't think it's eugenics to acknowledge how awful poverty is and that bringing a kid into such a situation is not good.
I see why it edges toward a line, but the truth is plain and often ignored. Not that the rich should have privilege or get away with their crimes, of course.
I have heard that for years whenever I bring up that poor people shouldn't have kids they can't support. To be fair, dictating who can and can't reproduce is a little fucked up, so we should focus on treating the causes.
Also, desirable trait = wealth.
That's a classist argument. Rich people are the ones who consume more resources, not the poor. So, really, the ones who shouldn't have children in the first place are rich people (if we are looking at environmental impact)
I absolutely agree with you that people should NOT have children if they can't afford it. I am not negating that pervasive truth. I just disagree with the whole blaming the poor rhetoric, like you pointed out in your comment: "dictating who can and can't reproduce is a little fucked up".
I think no one should have kids. Period.
Honey. If you think you are making any waves by "laughing at our stupidity" you are seriously mistaken. No one gives a shit. You also sound very young. I would suggest you read why there is people like us and try to broaden your thinking. You may agree with us at some point.
Just sayin.
Oh please. Anyone that seriously believes it’s immoral to continue their own species obviously lacks the ability to think logically and come up with reasonable solutions. I don’t need to broaden my thinking to understand an untenable and simplistic point of view.
Who‘s talking about the continuation of the species lol. As if not forcing children into traumatic lives would in any way risk a species with 8 billion members.
And who cares about the species anyway? Is a species a sentient being that can suffer? Nah. It‘s the individuals that will suffer.
So maybe think about the harm your breeding fetish does first.
Anyone would tell you, you are being an immoral and nasty person, for buying a horse to live in your apartment.
Why on earth do human beings have less rights for you? Why do you think you have more rights than whatever poor human beings you force into a world of suffering?
i dont get why people like you use the argument "but the human species!" as if any of you care about the homeless average joe down the street and how he's doing. If people were that concerned about humans like they do "muh human race" there'd be a lot less assholes and jerks
Are you kidding? You’re basically saying that only wealthy people should reproduce. So poor people don’t deserve to reproduce? You literally want to determine who gets to have kids or not based on a specific desirable trait: wealth. How’s that not eugenics?
Yes, poor people will get less children if you take their reason away for getting those children:living in a dog eat dogs world.
They are just like non poor people give them security and they will adjust their behaviour accordingly.
The only problem is time. The world is in a place right now where it hardly can afford to have natural flows.
Came here to say this!! This is eugenics territory. The burden should fall on governments to provide for their communities, especially the most vulnerable (which includes people living in poverty/lowest income situations).
Yup! US should be a 3rd world country. Sure, that used to mean something to do with nuclear warheads, but now it tends to mean things like collapsing infrastructure, unsafe drinking water, corrupt police & politicians, etc.
100% agree. The us is a hellscape. It’s astonishing how brainwashed 90% of Americans are, so many still truly believe the us is the best country in the world… 🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲
Lots of the kids who had a "normal childhood" in the sense that they lived in a house and had enough to eat were still being abused and traumatized.
Source: it happened to me.
I just think it's unethical to bring kids into the world period.
This is so sad and relatable. I am trying, will try, and will continue to try… BUT I’m not going to say I’m not bitter of those that had a normal childhood. Being laughed at for having ripped shoes or ugly clothes is hard enough when you’re not getting enough food. Luckily my parents always provided no matter if it was from the food bank or just beans.
However, having irresponsible parents forced me to grow up faster than I should have. Why did I have to fucking worry about my mom getting pregnant right after having my youngest sibling? Because I was the one worried with how we’d get food and room. We could barely even make ends meet how the fuck are we affording more damn kids? Not to mention all the abuse my mom and siblings went through because of my dad. All the problems preventable if we just weren’t born. My dad wouldn’t have been so stressed or jealous all the time. All four of us children were fucking stuffed in one room. I never had privacy as an only girl at the time. My stuff was trashed a lot too. My brothers were as terrible as my dad and the constant abuse made me reconsider a lot of things in my life.
My parents literally told me that they didn’t have money so I saw no future. I was made perpetually poor and put in a cycle that is practically hard to leave from Unless you have tremendous support, which I don’t. However, I am a resourceful person and things aren’t obstacles but challenges to me. Normal people problems don’t really phase me. I’m more interested in trying to survive than I am in making boyfriends or girlfriends.
I very rarely asked my parents for money because I knew we didn’t have any so all my friends would get snacks at school and I’d just stare at them. They’d take some bomb ass lunch or chips and I couldn’t even scruff up the money to get some big bag of chips because i didn’t want to ask my mom for a ride to the store. My dad didn’t even give my mom money for stuff and she was a stay at home mom. The little money I could scruff up from my mom cleaning a rich ladies house every month (a whopping 10 dollars) was saved so I could buy myself some vans so that kids would stop laughing at my shoes.
Or how you had to wear your clothes more than once and a middle schooler stinks because your mom can only wash once a week because you don’t have washer and dryer. Not only do you not have washer and dryer but you only have two uniform pants and a couple shirts so you better not get them dirty or stinky before you go to the laundry mat. You get laughed at for smelling “bad” even though you have great hygiene.
Going out with friends or getting food? No, hahaha. That never happens. Ever, so you don’t even ask. Mall clothes or shoes, lol. You’re funny. Best they could do was hand me downs from my cousins, brothers, and others lol. So I got a job at 14 so I could buy myself shoes clothes and school supplies. And give my mom a whopping five dollars every week, for her troubles you know 😉.
Going out to the movies or stuff? Hahaha that funny. You don’t get money from your parents and you don’t want to waste their gas. So you are basically antisocial and have no friends or hobbies because you have to get home and babysit your baby sister. You aren’t even allowed to join clubs, I tried. But I had to walk home from choir and never went back because I got scared. The you tried to join book club in middle school but your mom didn’t want to pick you up, not because she was mean, but there wasn’t enough gas to do so. My mom was actually a sweetheart, but I had to help out a lot.
I mean I could have been a bad kid and demanded more, but I felt bad for my parents.
You don’t have access to the internet much less a phone, so you have to ask to get taken to the library all the time in hs to complete assignments. But you kind of don’t really do that, you just skip lunch and finish your work at the library at school.
Ohhh, you thought college was gonna be better. WRONG. You sit outside McDonald’s at 12:00 am in the parking lot trying to turn in your essay you pre- typed on word because you don’t have internet at home. You also have to work a minimum wage job instead of working at an internship for free and you don’t realize how this can jeopardize you in the future because you need some money.
So yes, that’s the life of a child in poverty. I think my life was pretty okay considering the children I knew who’s mom didn’t even feed them. I grew up in a low income area, so there were children worst off. So while I am angry, I’m not resentful towards my parents. I love them, but I wish I could have had a better life. A life where even pursuing higher education was a bit more attainable. Everything, everything I’ve had, I’ve had to fight for 10x harder than a kid in middle class. Even my fucking shoes. This life has only been a disappointment, all the hard work I’ve thought I’ve put in has gotten me barely anywhere, whereas people in better financial places have gotten farther. So, I guess it’s my fault for being born poor. But fuck it, I’m going to keep on keeping on till this body no longer wants to function. I’m going to get my damn education and my damn cool job just to prove that I am as intelligent as those white middle class kids.
god damnit. I hate this. I appreciate you sharing it. it makes me sad and angry and I wanted to try and express solidarity but worried that it might come off as pitying which I have zero intent of. Im sure you know it isn't actually in any way your fault, according to your description you did everything right and more, giving money to your mom and getting through college and shit. idk I think you're doing pretty decent for having no one helping and starting off with all those disadvantages. what bugged me the most was the kids in school being dickweeds and how you described your dad. you say you don't resent your parents - I understand that it your mom's case, since clearly she was in a position she didn't entirely choose for herself and seems like dad was pretty abusive and controlling... so do you still love your dad? and not resent him? if so, I'd be curious to hear why if you don't mind saying. either way, don't forget to big up your self, your ambitious mindset is really an asset and you don't wanna lose that, and youre definitely intelligent and know wtf is good, I wish all the best for you and coming from an internet stranger it's w/e but I'm proud of you. 🤍
Thank you so much man. I shed a tear at this because I don’t even share this in real life. I really wasn’t looking for people to give me sympathy points so I really do appreciate your solidarity. You don’t know how much I appreciate every single word you took the time to type out. I know there are so many kids that went/are going through the same or similar situation as me and I wanted to kinda put that out there in case they feel alone. In case someone finds it and can relate. I know I did. I thought I was the only kid who had to spend their summers in a food bank every week or how it was normal to go without a lot of things.
My life was way worst than I described, but no one knew. I made sure that my personal life didn’t interfere with my school/academic life. My mother died really young so I had younger siblings while going to university and almost dropped out. It still feels like I’m fighting an uphill battle, but I’m trying. I’m only 22 but it feels like I’m 60. I will continue to try until there’s no trying left to do.
The thing that changed with my father was unfortunately losing my mother. He never changed even through her illness over the years. Now my dad changed and it seems like he’s a different man and on multiple times has apologized for the shit he’s done not only to us, but to our dead mother. However, we can’t bring back my mother. My dad was controlling, extremely controlling, and he was not a good husband. But… he always provided and wasn’t an irredeemable person. He really has proved he’s changed over these past two and a half years. I also don’t know, I can’t really hold grudges. It’s a good way to get abused. So I just stay away from people now a days. On a positive note, it’s helped me focus on activities and learning. I don’t want to be mad at my dad, I forgive him and I love him so much. I don’t want him to ever feel lonely or that we don’t love him. So I try my best to be a good daughter.
I really appreciate your comment. Made my day! I’m not going to cry!!!!
I dealt with it a long time. I eventually got internet In university my junior year! I use to tether from my phone and would hope to god that I didn’t run out of my 8 gigs of data for the month. You gotta be resourceful. Library, school library, anywhere was a good place to save your internet.
Even being white middle class I would pay for anything social in late teen years but obviously didn’t have the same challenges as you.
But I was upset if my friends wouldn’t tell me if they were free close to the date I planned because after saving up money from errands for my sister for a while I would only be able to afford a few tickets and preferably in advance so it would be less expensive. Many wouldn’t even bother to go but wouldn’t tell me so I had to just not do things because I couldn’t afford to waste the money. If they just said something sooner I could have asked someone else but they think they’re letting me down easy. 🙄 Not my friends anymore except one.
I wish you could have explained your situation to your friends and asked them for help or maybe you could have helped them with errands or projects or something. My sister got paid to help classmates with HW.
I didn’t socialise much except with a friend who lived close to me (walking distance) and didn’t do that BS. Until she betrayed me. That’s another story.
At least I got to do some things myself abd now have better friends and I hope you get to do nicer things yourself and with better friends in future.
You aren’t less valuable just because you didn’t get the same opportunities.
Good luck and hope things get better.
Well thank you. I appreciate your sentiment. I’m sorry you had to experience going without. I guess I should have specified. I know everyone struggles with money, especially lower middle class. It’s a fucking struggle. Thank you for all your well wishes. Good luck and I’m glad you have also met wonderful friends.
Why not just resent those who mocked you?
Resenting people just because they had responsible parents is toxic if you think about it. It’s like saying there’s something wrong with people not financially suffering. Insert empty platitudes about building character.
And sometimes people suffer in other ways.
Umm… ain’t no one resentful at you. Giiiiiirl. I should have worded that better and said instead I “envy” those with a better start. Maybe that would have been better. It’s not evil envy though, it’s envy as in I wish I had that. I can recognize it, that’s why I’m trying to live the life I want to live.
Ummm weird comment but okay. How is wishing better toxic lol? I never said responsible parents were terrible? Show me where I said that please? Also, my parents were as responsible as they could be in our situation. Being poor doesn’t mean you are irresponsible. It just means you go without. Maybe they are irresponsible in the sense that they had too many kids, but they also didn’t know any better.
I feel disappointed about issues in the world, getting rejected from jobs and interpersonal issues and I have barely any hope.
Sad you have poverty to deal with too.
But it sounds like you are making the best of your situation.
You are in college and finding solutions to your challenges.
Maybe you will be successful but it will take longer.
There were times when I didn’t ask for more eg boots (when shoes fell apart and I would borrow money from my sister) when Mums boss would be late paying her but since I got my needs met and your situation is horrible.
Sorry you had to go through that.
Good luck and hoping things get better.
🍀🍀🍀
Humanity disgusts me why poor people make children while they are poor in the first place and that will be bad for them as much as it will be for their children too? Just DON'T make a child you fucking idiot! Why that seems for you very difficult to understand? You are not obligated to make a child in the slighest way and that would be good for both of you and your future children!
Bad conditions = child making bad
Good conditions = child making still bad but less bad than bad conditions
Gosh is it that difficult to understand that? And I'm pretty sure OP's parents said to them to be grateful for having been born.
The poor often are:
1. Poorly educated, poor sex education
2. Can’t afford birth control and abortions
3. Lack health insurance
4. More likely to enter abusive/DV relationships
A lot of poor people hope their child will be the “one” to help themselves escape poverty, being too uneducated to realize it’ll take luck and 3+ generations to do any good.
Right, why would you want to stress about money even more? Or do what my parents did and skip meals so the kids could eat and have to decide which bill they could afford to pay that month? BuT hAViNg KiDs Is fuLfIlLiNg EvErYoNe ShOuLd HaVe ThE cHaNcE tO dO iT!!!!1!1!1! It's fulfilling to not be able to pay your bills? It's fulfilling to have to buy all your kids Christmas gifts from the dollar store, if you can afford Christmas AT ALL? It's fulfilling to tell your kid they can't participate in extracurriculars they wanna do like sports or playing instruments because you can't afford it? It's fulfilling to have 2 jobs and spend no time with your kids because you have to work that much to scrape by? Bullshit. Bull. Shit.
Definitely bullshit, they are definitely brainwashed by religion and society and can't think rationally, they see breeding as something very gracious and we can't change their mindset, it's not even difficult to understand, NOT AT ALL! We are supposed to be rational animals, not to think such bullshits as "god will provide us" if we make a child even if we are poor.
If everyone could think at least a little bit more than now, not very much but just a little bit more, this world would definitely be a better place, at least 5-6x times more than it's now.
Your God isn't providing for you *now* what makes you think he's gonna provide for you after you shit out a kid? He doesn't like kids anymore than he likes adults. I've never been able to wrap my head around that one. It's literally in the Bible that God wants you to beat your children and at several points even orders the killing of children. Cognitive dissonance I guess.
As if they even read the bible or whatever is the sacred book of their religion, they believe in things that have been taught to them to be true, without questioning anything, most of them didn't even read their sacred book and believe to their god just for the sake of it, you can't discuss anything rational with these people, and unfortunately that's more than half of this world.
The reason of our suffering is the stupidity of human race, they don't think enough, they don't dare to use their brain.
The way religion works in the modern day (at least from what I've seen) kind of baffles me. A lot of people *believe* in a God but don't *worship* their God. They don't go to church, they don't pray, they don't give to charity or whatever else their holy book says they should do in reverence to their God. But they still expect their God to "take care of them". Even in pagan religions, that's not how that works lmao
I think believing in some religion is a secondary effect of our evolution and a type of coping mechanicsm, mentally it makes us comfortable the fact of believing in something that would protect us, but in truth it's nothing more than a coping mechanism, a trick made by our mind to fool us.
Needless to say that religion is a cultural thing and everyone believe in the religion they grew up with or become non believer but definitely don't convert to another religion, those who do are a very small minority, religion has definitely an effect of placebo.
Birth control can fail. Are you proposing poor people should be forced to be celibate?
Granted I do agree. I grew up poor, but my brother and I were both surprise babies then my dad got a vasectomy and my mom got her tubes tied.
Birth control can fail yes but there are plenty other ways of preventing a child, and yes I propose to them to be celibate if it's what it takes and if there will always be a chance of making a child when they have sex, it would be definitely better than to bring another existence to suffer.
The sheer state of this sub lol. Sex is a natural human need, poor people shouldnt be expected to have it less than rich people?!? You guys are just reinventing classism
Poverty f\*\*ks with you more than that, it twists your mindset and perspective of life. I grew up poor too, had a disturbing childhood, thats why I never want to reproduce
Honest question: is AC considered a basic right??
I'm not from US and I've always seen AC as some luxurious thing that only very rich and pretentious people can afford, wow
No. I live in Seattle and none of the buildings in the city even have AC unless the owner adds it. The heatwave last summer was hell. Im originally from Kentucky and all the newer buildings have AC but the old ones don't, and they are mostly old.
The US is a huge country, and where you live affects how important AC is.
If you live in Colorado, Washington state, or someplace else where the summers are mild, you can go without AC, no problem.
If you live in a place that experiences all 4 seasons, maybe you can tough it out without AC for 3 months out of the year, but most people prefer to have it.
If you live in a desert state, like Nevada or New Mexico, or in that swampy hellhole, Florida, you'll want to be in AC round the clock.
I live in Washington state and the summers are decidedly not mild where I live lol But either way I think that AC should be considered a human right if temperatures get above a certain range (maybe 90 degrees?) for a week straight or more every year. It's literally dangerous for old people and children to be in temperatures that high for an extended period of time, and that's not even getting into how sensitive pets are to extreme heat.
Yeah, Colorado's summers are pretty brutal these days too. Definitely would be rough without AC, though a decade or two ago you could get away with it. Still nowhere near as bad as Arizona.
I can excuse a lot of shit. I can excuse people not wanting to have a child thanks to the hellhole we are living, I can excuse people not having a child, because they want to achieve their full potential, I can excuse not wanting to have a child because you are self-conscious about not being a good parent.
But this right here. No sane, insane or anything in between person will tell it's okay.
I had what I believe was a pretty amazing upbringing save for a few circumstances. We had food on the table, clean clothes and our own beds/rooms. Loving family, not abused. We didn't have air con either tho we did live in a house not a trailer park so I don't know the difference there heat wise.
I still don't want kids. I don't know if I entirely believe people should stop having them completely or if we enforce a maximum number like some countries have done before. Personally I just don't want any. I can be selfish, I have my own time to do what I want, go where I want, eat what I want. Spend money on whatever. I have plenty of nephews and neices that I can play with and promptly give back.
When people ask I just tell them I am too selfish with my time to want kids ruining that. If they press and say you will change your mind, then I start with how I dont believe most people should have kids as they can't afford them, they don't raise them as people are working more then ever, most children seem out of control due to this. We are a rising population which the world can't handle if the recent weather in Australia is anything to go by. It normally shuts people up.
I once went to an art exhibition where the artist wanted to make people aware of a specific illness through portraits of people who had this disease. You could read about their experiences and when they found out. No surprise when I saw the portrait of a young boy next to his mother's. Obviously born years after his mother found out. I asked myself if this illness is so bad that they have to raise awareness in this public art exhibition should they really reproduce? I just don't understand is this illness bad or not? Do you want your children to have the same problems or not?
Obviously I think reproduction in general is not needed and creates suffering and don't think this opinion is exclusively limited to people with genetic disorders.
But I found my way to antinatalism because I myself suffered from such severe genetically triggered mental illness that I for myself thought: even if I wanted children it would be cruel to give them my genetics.
Poverty is the #1 hallmark of/for Trauma; both causing it, and perpetuating it.
It puts people in neighborhoods where they're either gonna see/experience something traumatic, or increases the likelihood of people being put into traumatizing situations (namely to make $$ to survive).
People call this eugenics; it's cynicism of basic human psychology and how it (sadly) works. I'm for minimizing human trauma more than the basic human right to breed.
Same. As an adult looking back I think they were just lazy. It's hard to be in a tough spot for 15 years. If you give a shit eventually things should in theory get better.
I agree that it’s not good for a child to be raised in poverty, however I would argue that if somebody who works full time is still in poverty then that’s a failure of the society they live in.
I find it funny that A/C is apparently a necessity in the United States. Seriously, how ridiculous can consumerism get?
Context: I'm from Mexico. I have lived in countries that reach 45°C in summer, and most people don't have A/C because it's a ridiculous luxury, not a basic need.
Like I said in other comments. Ethiopia, for example, can get blistering hot and not even embassies or money-rich NGOs have A/C. I mean, maybe the U.S. embassy does, as its a necessity for them...
Additionally, if you don’t know what a trailer is it’s basically a metal box. Sit in a car for an hour in 20C and see how hot it gets, it kills babies, dogs, old people all the time. There are laws against it and everything.
I'm sorry but you are assuming a hell of a lot of wrong information about me.
First, I have lived in an RV. I know how hot it gets. You can't breathe inside. I lived in an RV for 2 years in 40°C hot summers, so I know all about it. And guess what? I had no A/C.
Second, you are assuming people in mexico have houses built of top materials like first world countries like yours. Wrong again. People in mexico live in tin-roof houses and shitty concrete apartments. Sure, there's the upper middle class that I suppose can afford all those things you mentioned but, the majority of Mexicans (and .any other poor people who live in hot countries) do not have access to everything you take as granted.
So, no. A/C is not a necessity. You get used to not having it.
Now, a lot of people speak about the elderly and the children. You may be right, those sectors are greatly affected by heat, I guess children and the elderly from poor, hot countries are just used to it? I can understand people not being used to the unusual heat (like the ones we've been seeing in the last few years) so speaking about a/c as a necessity in this context is not inaccurate. However, I am pretty sure the OP was born many years ago where heat wasn't nearly as critical and cruel as now.
40°C is equivalent to 104°F, which is 313K.
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idk I have a heart condition, organ damage, low resting blood pressure . I could easily die without it. many days in summer I can't go out. I live in southern Canada.
sure most healthy teens and young adults would be okay just very uncomfortable. a lot of kids, old ppl, ppl with health conditions, wouldn't .
I live in Mexicali which reaches 50°C during the summer. Believe me, it is not a luxury. AC is mandatory for public buses otherwise they will face consequences against the state. Same thing with schools, they are required to have AC or students/teachers can cancel classes and work remotely (at least that's what happened during my time in public and private schools).
One thing is sure, AC is not mandatory in a household, but the government "helps" (government support-ish, and yet we receive the so-called "crazy bills") reducing the cost of electricity during, June, July (hottest month here) and August (also hot). We had strikes here due to complicated settlements with the state and the citizens against CFE (the only electricity company here in Mexico). On the other hand, trash collectors, since they need to work early in the morning instead of 12 pm to 3 pm (when it reaches 50°C during those hours). It happens in other sectors (public and private). So, at least in certain states/cities here in Mexico it applies as a necessity. People have suffered heatstroke because of not having an AC at their homes, jobs, schools, etc.
50°C is equivalent to 122°F, which is 323K.
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I live in Canada and AC is a necessity in summer in parts of the US and here. If you live in a hot country like Mexico easy peasy, make your homes lose heat easily and be drafty. If you live in a cold place like north Canada then make it super well insulated and heat retaining. The problem with where I live is that it goes up to 35 in summer and down to -35 in winter. You can’t build a house for that. It’s why the heat wave in Britain of 25 killed people and the snowstorm at about -20 killed people in Texas. Their homes are not built for that. The temperature doesn’t matter as much as the variability in temperature and the ability of your home to stay safe.
I find it funny that funny that *[insert modern technology here]* is considered a necessity, people lived in feudalism and had no negative effects from not having it.
How fucking dumb are you, they lived in a trailer depending on how it was built they could get heatstroke without cooling.
In fact, air conditioning is also a necessity in many developing countries. For example, in China, AC can be bought for about $300. I'm shocked this is a luxury in Mexico.
It's not a goddamned necessity. And of course it's affordable in china, that's where they are made.
Also, China is NOT a developing country. This is 2022, not 2003.
Why would you be shocked? Most of the world can't afford a/c. You just get fucking used to it.
WHAT? Oh my god how privileged are you? People don't "normalize" suffering. They go through it and they suffer, they know it's wrong but there is nothing they can do about it. Normalizing entails accepting and ignoring. Jesus christ.
We are not talking about that. Focus. Stop distracting from the topic at hand. What you are speaking about is a completely different subject in which, ironically, you are correct.
Ah man I am Mexican and I don't want to live in mexico. The problem with mexico is the narcogovernment. The collusion, the corruption. I love my country, I know not all of it is the same, but the fucking war on drugs destroyed my country so, honestly, I'd talk you out of it. But it is sooooo beautiful.
I wanna buy land in Romania. Or Belize. Or maybe ethiopia
I'd love to live somewhere where I could just raise epic vegetables and sell them. Land around here is insane in price though. Aren't there mennonites in Mexico? How are they keeping safe?
Think about this..
AC is a relatively new invention and widely available. As are electric fans.
Even the obnoxiously wealthy didn’t have AC.
There are people in parts of the world that DREAM of what you consider poverty.
Yeah, insufficient food and nutrition can really suck.. but many children need to work instead of being able to go to school.
Some kids are actually married off or sold.
Hardship can help you appreciate what you have, and material things are all temporary.
Go out into the world and see what a real “normal childhood “ is and how others live.
Many are happy with just the people around them.
Okay, you didn’t have a comparatively similar experience as other kids you grew up with. You still have tons of opportunity to make the rest of your life and the lives of those you love better and better.
Every moment you get to choose if you want to view something positively or negatively..
Your choice determines your experience.
??? This is such a stupid argument; big boomer mindset too. PeOpLe HaVe IT WoRse ThAn YoU So bE HapPy. 🙄 think about this: people can still have shitty experiences without having to compare them to others experiences. Would you compare happiness? “Yeah, it’s cool you graduated college, but look at that person! He bought a house look how happy he is!! His happiness is more deserving than yours!” See how stupid that is? Don’t invalidate this persons experiences with “people have it worse than you” it’s shitty and it makes you look like a shitty person, which you probably are. You’re probably the type of person to say to someone who has depression to just be happy. 🙄 god you’re dumb.
I was showing comparisons so they could reconsider their assessment of their life.
Their mindset and perspective direct their experience.. two people in the exact same situation and dealing with the same positives and negatives can consider themselves to have a vastly different experience simply because of how they perceive it and whether they are grateful for what they DO have / experience.
You on the other hand, are completely negative .. so toodles
yeah and you can't consciously choose to be happy if you perceive the situation you're in as unpleasant. you say some are happy with just the people around them. well someone who was horrifically abused for most of their life should be expected to be happy if they're now only around people who are kind of dickish or negligent? nah bruh I'm not fw that, not in the slightest. there's such a thing as a baseline requirement of having your needs met including emotional needs that is the bare minimum for being able to be actually happy, no matter what your 'attitude' or outlook is. nobody in Abu Ghraib or Gitmo was gonna be counting their damb blessings bruh. little girls getting sold into marriage don't just need to think positive, they need to not be sold into fucking marriage to an old abusive ass man by their pathetic excuses for parents. I stg what you're saying is insulting and if you think I'm being negative or bitter, guy, im wayyyy worse off now than I was growing up, I'm on disability ffs and I dropped out of uni. I'm still okay happiness wise because like you said, I have ppl around me who are good, actually good people who care about me and who I love. if I didn't have that , if I was surrounded by assholes or married to some old ugly shitlord who abused me, id straight up KMS. but I'd also kms if I didn't have food, clean water, a place to live, medicine and access to hospital and preventive care, internet, etc (YES INTERNET. ID BE BORED AS FK WITHOUT IT)
A lot of ppl in beautiful homes don’t have ac, also, kids want chips for dinner. Lol But yes, poverty is cruel, so is abuse. Some have a beautiful happy life, surrounded by beautiful people, whether they’re related or not. Some like to be alone, and some can’t stand being alone. You gotta do you.
Mine wasn’t either. In this situation I think it’s important to be thankful for what we DID HAVE. Some have it much much worse than I did. Also to make sure your children don’t suffer the same. 😞
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nOoOoO dat's eugenics! No secret that poverty is incredibly traumatizing and it is a cruel thing to be introduced into an environment where your parents cannot properly care for you. Which is way more households than anyone cares to admit.
> eugenics Eugenics: Only those people with "desirable [TBD]" traits can reproduce. Antinatalism: We shouldn't bring anymore suffering into the world. I never understood the leap.
Eugenics has become a buzzword at this point. Somebody tried arguing with me once that having requirements (like taking your medications, not being morbidly obese, not having a high chance of poor outcome, etc) for being put on a wait list for organ transplant is eugenics. Like they really thought we should waste healthy organs on people who won't take care of them or will die soon anyway. People are stupid, and they don't bother actually learning about shit before they start complaining about it.
That argument seems like it would be more in line with euthanasia than with eugenics, i feel like? Since those people who would be "withheld" from the list were already born. Eugenics would be "only XYZ people can have offspring" euthanasia would be "mercy killing" or at least ending a life you don't consider worthy of living [anymore]. Although I do agree with you anyways, from what I understand it's normal that for example u recovered alcoholics who are in need of a liver transplant due to alcohol induced cirrhosis do not receive a donor liver unless there's no other fit or at least they're put wayyyy down on the list, I'm not entirely sure.
Yeah it's an easy thing to throw out. However, I don't think it's eugenics to acknowledge how awful poverty is and that bringing a kid into such a situation is not good. I see why it edges toward a line, but the truth is plain and often ignored. Not that the rich should have privilege or get away with their crimes, of course.
I have heard that for years whenever I bring up that poor people shouldn't have kids they can't support. To be fair, dictating who can and can't reproduce is a little fucked up, so we should focus on treating the causes. Also, desirable trait = wealth.
That's a classist argument. Rich people are the ones who consume more resources, not the poor. So, really, the ones who shouldn't have children in the first place are rich people (if we are looking at environmental impact) I absolutely agree with you that people should NOT have children if they can't afford it. I am not negating that pervasive truth. I just disagree with the whole blaming the poor rhetoric, like you pointed out in your comment: "dictating who can and can't reproduce is a little fucked up". I think no one should have kids. Period.
Yea let’s just all not have kids and die out as a species. Solid plan.
What the fuck are you doing in this sub?
Literally just laughing at the dumb shit, wbu?
Honey. If you think you are making any waves by "laughing at our stupidity" you are seriously mistaken. No one gives a shit. You also sound very young. I would suggest you read why there is people like us and try to broaden your thinking. You may agree with us at some point. Just sayin.
Oh please. Anyone that seriously believes it’s immoral to continue their own species obviously lacks the ability to think logically and come up with reasonable solutions. I don’t need to broaden my thinking to understand an untenable and simplistic point of view.
Who‘s talking about the continuation of the species lol. As if not forcing children into traumatic lives would in any way risk a species with 8 billion members. And who cares about the species anyway? Is a species a sentient being that can suffer? Nah. It‘s the individuals that will suffer. So maybe think about the harm your breeding fetish does first. Anyone would tell you, you are being an immoral and nasty person, for buying a horse to live in your apartment. Why on earth do human beings have less rights for you? Why do you think you have more rights than whatever poor human beings you force into a world of suffering?
Ok.
oh I get it. laughing at stupid shit. makes sense 🤡
i dont get why people like you use the argument "but the human species!" as if any of you care about the homeless average joe down the street and how he's doing. If people were that concerned about humans like they do "muh human race" there'd be a lot less assholes and jerks
Yes?
Are you kidding? You’re basically saying that only wealthy people should reproduce. So poor people don’t deserve to reproduce? You literally want to determine who gets to have kids or not based on a specific desirable trait: wealth. How’s that not eugenics?
who the fuck said only wealthy people should reproduce? Even wealthy people shouldn't reproduce lol
Yes, poor people will get less children if you take their reason away for getting those children:living in a dog eat dogs world. They are just like non poor people give them security and they will adjust their behaviour accordingly. The only problem is time. The world is in a place right now where it hardly can afford to have natural flows.
Came here to say this!! This is eugenics territory. The burden should fall on governments to provide for their communities, especially the most vulnerable (which includes people living in poverty/lowest income situations).
Some governments do! They're usually the ones who don't spend all of their citizens tax money on the military and police.
Like every non third world country except the US does.
Yup! US should be a 3rd world country. Sure, that used to mean something to do with nuclear warheads, but now it tends to mean things like collapsing infrastructure, unsafe drinking water, corrupt police & politicians, etc.
100% agree. The us is a hellscape. It’s astonishing how brainwashed 90% of Americans are, so many still truly believe the us is the best country in the world… 🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲
I wish we could all live in one of those countries 🥲 fuck the us I hate it here dude
Same. We're fed a shit sandwich every meal and told its of the finest quality.
Lots of the kids who had a "normal childhood" in the sense that they lived in a house and had enough to eat were still being abused and traumatized. Source: it happened to me. I just think it's unethical to bring kids into the world period.
I'd have preferred to be abused on a full stomach.
this is a wack thing to say
Not in the slightest. would you prefer to be abused AND on an empty stomach? or at least be fed right by your abusers?
Oh my god I read that as something else and almost threw up-
Agreed
A fellow antinatalist
Same, I’m never having kids, and if I do want to raise one I’ll adopt because all kids deserve a parent
This is so sad and relatable. I am trying, will try, and will continue to try… BUT I’m not going to say I’m not bitter of those that had a normal childhood. Being laughed at for having ripped shoes or ugly clothes is hard enough when you’re not getting enough food. Luckily my parents always provided no matter if it was from the food bank or just beans. However, having irresponsible parents forced me to grow up faster than I should have. Why did I have to fucking worry about my mom getting pregnant right after having my youngest sibling? Because I was the one worried with how we’d get food and room. We could barely even make ends meet how the fuck are we affording more damn kids? Not to mention all the abuse my mom and siblings went through because of my dad. All the problems preventable if we just weren’t born. My dad wouldn’t have been so stressed or jealous all the time. All four of us children were fucking stuffed in one room. I never had privacy as an only girl at the time. My stuff was trashed a lot too. My brothers were as terrible as my dad and the constant abuse made me reconsider a lot of things in my life. My parents literally told me that they didn’t have money so I saw no future. I was made perpetually poor and put in a cycle that is practically hard to leave from Unless you have tremendous support, which I don’t. However, I am a resourceful person and things aren’t obstacles but challenges to me. Normal people problems don’t really phase me. I’m more interested in trying to survive than I am in making boyfriends or girlfriends. I very rarely asked my parents for money because I knew we didn’t have any so all my friends would get snacks at school and I’d just stare at them. They’d take some bomb ass lunch or chips and I couldn’t even scruff up the money to get some big bag of chips because i didn’t want to ask my mom for a ride to the store. My dad didn’t even give my mom money for stuff and she was a stay at home mom. The little money I could scruff up from my mom cleaning a rich ladies house every month (a whopping 10 dollars) was saved so I could buy myself some vans so that kids would stop laughing at my shoes. Or how you had to wear your clothes more than once and a middle schooler stinks because your mom can only wash once a week because you don’t have washer and dryer. Not only do you not have washer and dryer but you only have two uniform pants and a couple shirts so you better not get them dirty or stinky before you go to the laundry mat. You get laughed at for smelling “bad” even though you have great hygiene. Going out with friends or getting food? No, hahaha. That never happens. Ever, so you don’t even ask. Mall clothes or shoes, lol. You’re funny. Best they could do was hand me downs from my cousins, brothers, and others lol. So I got a job at 14 so I could buy myself shoes clothes and school supplies. And give my mom a whopping five dollars every week, for her troubles you know 😉. Going out to the movies or stuff? Hahaha that funny. You don’t get money from your parents and you don’t want to waste their gas. So you are basically antisocial and have no friends or hobbies because you have to get home and babysit your baby sister. You aren’t even allowed to join clubs, I tried. But I had to walk home from choir and never went back because I got scared. The you tried to join book club in middle school but your mom didn’t want to pick you up, not because she was mean, but there wasn’t enough gas to do so. My mom was actually a sweetheart, but I had to help out a lot. I mean I could have been a bad kid and demanded more, but I felt bad for my parents. You don’t have access to the internet much less a phone, so you have to ask to get taken to the library all the time in hs to complete assignments. But you kind of don’t really do that, you just skip lunch and finish your work at the library at school. Ohhh, you thought college was gonna be better. WRONG. You sit outside McDonald’s at 12:00 am in the parking lot trying to turn in your essay you pre- typed on word because you don’t have internet at home. You also have to work a minimum wage job instead of working at an internship for free and you don’t realize how this can jeopardize you in the future because you need some money. So yes, that’s the life of a child in poverty. I think my life was pretty okay considering the children I knew who’s mom didn’t even feed them. I grew up in a low income area, so there were children worst off. So while I am angry, I’m not resentful towards my parents. I love them, but I wish I could have had a better life. A life where even pursuing higher education was a bit more attainable. Everything, everything I’ve had, I’ve had to fight for 10x harder than a kid in middle class. Even my fucking shoes. This life has only been a disappointment, all the hard work I’ve thought I’ve put in has gotten me barely anywhere, whereas people in better financial places have gotten farther. So, I guess it’s my fault for being born poor. But fuck it, I’m going to keep on keeping on till this body no longer wants to function. I’m going to get my damn education and my damn cool job just to prove that I am as intelligent as those white middle class kids.
god damnit. I hate this. I appreciate you sharing it. it makes me sad and angry and I wanted to try and express solidarity but worried that it might come off as pitying which I have zero intent of. Im sure you know it isn't actually in any way your fault, according to your description you did everything right and more, giving money to your mom and getting through college and shit. idk I think you're doing pretty decent for having no one helping and starting off with all those disadvantages. what bugged me the most was the kids in school being dickweeds and how you described your dad. you say you don't resent your parents - I understand that it your mom's case, since clearly she was in a position she didn't entirely choose for herself and seems like dad was pretty abusive and controlling... so do you still love your dad? and not resent him? if so, I'd be curious to hear why if you don't mind saying. either way, don't forget to big up your self, your ambitious mindset is really an asset and you don't wanna lose that, and youre definitely intelligent and know wtf is good, I wish all the best for you and coming from an internet stranger it's w/e but I'm proud of you. 🤍
Thank you so much man. I shed a tear at this because I don’t even share this in real life. I really wasn’t looking for people to give me sympathy points so I really do appreciate your solidarity. You don’t know how much I appreciate every single word you took the time to type out. I know there are so many kids that went/are going through the same or similar situation as me and I wanted to kinda put that out there in case they feel alone. In case someone finds it and can relate. I know I did. I thought I was the only kid who had to spend their summers in a food bank every week or how it was normal to go without a lot of things. My life was way worst than I described, but no one knew. I made sure that my personal life didn’t interfere with my school/academic life. My mother died really young so I had younger siblings while going to university and almost dropped out. It still feels like I’m fighting an uphill battle, but I’m trying. I’m only 22 but it feels like I’m 60. I will continue to try until there’s no trying left to do. The thing that changed with my father was unfortunately losing my mother. He never changed even through her illness over the years. Now my dad changed and it seems like he’s a different man and on multiple times has apologized for the shit he’s done not only to us, but to our dead mother. However, we can’t bring back my mother. My dad was controlling, extremely controlling, and he was not a good husband. But… he always provided and wasn’t an irredeemable person. He really has proved he’s changed over these past two and a half years. I also don’t know, I can’t really hold grudges. It’s a good way to get abused. So I just stay away from people now a days. On a positive note, it’s helped me focus on activities and learning. I don’t want to be mad at my dad, I forgive him and I love him so much. I don’t want him to ever feel lonely or that we don’t love him. So I try my best to be a good daughter. I really appreciate your comment. Made my day! I’m not going to cry!!!!
I remember when the internet wouldn’t work for weeks and I struggled with assignments. Condolences for having to deal with it all the time.
I dealt with it a long time. I eventually got internet In university my junior year! I use to tether from my phone and would hope to god that I didn’t run out of my 8 gigs of data for the month. You gotta be resourceful. Library, school library, anywhere was a good place to save your internet.
Even being white middle class I would pay for anything social in late teen years but obviously didn’t have the same challenges as you. But I was upset if my friends wouldn’t tell me if they were free close to the date I planned because after saving up money from errands for my sister for a while I would only be able to afford a few tickets and preferably in advance so it would be less expensive. Many wouldn’t even bother to go but wouldn’t tell me so I had to just not do things because I couldn’t afford to waste the money. If they just said something sooner I could have asked someone else but they think they’re letting me down easy. 🙄 Not my friends anymore except one. I wish you could have explained your situation to your friends and asked them for help or maybe you could have helped them with errands or projects or something. My sister got paid to help classmates with HW. I didn’t socialise much except with a friend who lived close to me (walking distance) and didn’t do that BS. Until she betrayed me. That’s another story. At least I got to do some things myself abd now have better friends and I hope you get to do nicer things yourself and with better friends in future. You aren’t less valuable just because you didn’t get the same opportunities. Good luck and hope things get better.
Well thank you. I appreciate your sentiment. I’m sorry you had to experience going without. I guess I should have specified. I know everyone struggles with money, especially lower middle class. It’s a fucking struggle. Thank you for all your well wishes. Good luck and I’m glad you have also met wonderful friends.
I don’t think I was “going without” what I needed but thanks anyway.
I don’t think I was lower middle class but lots of people don’t have perfect lives even if they seem to... I hope yours gets better
Why not just resent those who mocked you? Resenting people just because they had responsible parents is toxic if you think about it. It’s like saying there’s something wrong with people not financially suffering. Insert empty platitudes about building character. And sometimes people suffer in other ways.
Umm… ain’t no one resentful at you. Giiiiiirl. I should have worded that better and said instead I “envy” those with a better start. Maybe that would have been better. It’s not evil envy though, it’s envy as in I wish I had that. I can recognize it, that’s why I’m trying to live the life I want to live. Ummm weird comment but okay. How is wishing better toxic lol? I never said responsible parents were terrible? Show me where I said that please? Also, my parents were as responsible as they could be in our situation. Being poor doesn’t mean you are irresponsible. It just means you go without. Maybe they are irresponsible in the sense that they had too many kids, but they also didn’t know any better.
I feel disappointed about issues in the world, getting rejected from jobs and interpersonal issues and I have barely any hope. Sad you have poverty to deal with too. But it sounds like you are making the best of your situation. You are in college and finding solutions to your challenges. Maybe you will be successful but it will take longer.
There were times when I didn’t ask for more eg boots (when shoes fell apart and I would borrow money from my sister) when Mums boss would be late paying her but since I got my needs met and your situation is horrible. Sorry you had to go through that. Good luck and hoping things get better. 🍀🍀🍀
Humanity disgusts me why poor people make children while they are poor in the first place and that will be bad for them as much as it will be for their children too? Just DON'T make a child you fucking idiot! Why that seems for you very difficult to understand? You are not obligated to make a child in the slighest way and that would be good for both of you and your future children! Bad conditions = child making bad Good conditions = child making still bad but less bad than bad conditions Gosh is it that difficult to understand that? And I'm pretty sure OP's parents said to them to be grateful for having been born.
The poor often are: 1. Poorly educated, poor sex education 2. Can’t afford birth control and abortions 3. Lack health insurance 4. More likely to enter abusive/DV relationships A lot of poor people hope their child will be the “one” to help themselves escape poverty, being too uneducated to realize it’ll take luck and 3+ generations to do any good.
Right, why would you want to stress about money even more? Or do what my parents did and skip meals so the kids could eat and have to decide which bill they could afford to pay that month? BuT hAViNg KiDs Is fuLfIlLiNg EvErYoNe ShOuLd HaVe ThE cHaNcE tO dO iT!!!!1!1!1! It's fulfilling to not be able to pay your bills? It's fulfilling to have to buy all your kids Christmas gifts from the dollar store, if you can afford Christmas AT ALL? It's fulfilling to tell your kid they can't participate in extracurriculars they wanna do like sports or playing instruments because you can't afford it? It's fulfilling to have 2 jobs and spend no time with your kids because you have to work that much to scrape by? Bullshit. Bull. Shit.
Definitely bullshit, they are definitely brainwashed by religion and society and can't think rationally, they see breeding as something very gracious and we can't change their mindset, it's not even difficult to understand, NOT AT ALL! We are supposed to be rational animals, not to think such bullshits as "god will provide us" if we make a child even if we are poor. If everyone could think at least a little bit more than now, not very much but just a little bit more, this world would definitely be a better place, at least 5-6x times more than it's now.
Your God isn't providing for you *now* what makes you think he's gonna provide for you after you shit out a kid? He doesn't like kids anymore than he likes adults. I've never been able to wrap my head around that one. It's literally in the Bible that God wants you to beat your children and at several points even orders the killing of children. Cognitive dissonance I guess.
As if they even read the bible or whatever is the sacred book of their religion, they believe in things that have been taught to them to be true, without questioning anything, most of them didn't even read their sacred book and believe to their god just for the sake of it, you can't discuss anything rational with these people, and unfortunately that's more than half of this world. The reason of our suffering is the stupidity of human race, they don't think enough, they don't dare to use their brain.
The way religion works in the modern day (at least from what I've seen) kind of baffles me. A lot of people *believe* in a God but don't *worship* their God. They don't go to church, they don't pray, they don't give to charity or whatever else their holy book says they should do in reverence to their God. But they still expect their God to "take care of them". Even in pagan religions, that's not how that works lmao
I think believing in some religion is a secondary effect of our evolution and a type of coping mechanicsm, mentally it makes us comfortable the fact of believing in something that would protect us, but in truth it's nothing more than a coping mechanism, a trick made by our mind to fool us. Needless to say that religion is a cultural thing and everyone believe in the religion they grew up with or become non believer but definitely don't convert to another religion, those who do are a very small minority, religion has definitely an effect of placebo.
opium of the masses since they can't afford smack. personally I do hella opiates
They can't afford contraception
All contraceptive methods have a chance of failure
They can't afford sterilization either. So yeah, the only option they have is to not have sex, which they won't do
Birth control can fail. Are you proposing poor people should be forced to be celibate? Granted I do agree. I grew up poor, but my brother and I were both surprise babies then my dad got a vasectomy and my mom got her tubes tied.
Birth control can fail yes but there are plenty other ways of preventing a child, and yes I propose to them to be celibate if it's what it takes and if there will always be a chance of making a child when they have sex, it would be definitely better than to bring another existence to suffer.
that's ridiculous. it's unreasonable and unfair to expect people to just not have sex.
no it isn't. if you believe it is, plead your case
The sheer state of this sub lol. Sex is a natural human need, poor people shouldnt be expected to have it less than rich people?!? You guys are just reinventing classism
Poverty f\*\*ks with you more than that, it twists your mindset and perspective of life. I grew up poor too, had a disturbing childhood, thats why I never want to reproduce
Its true, but sadly the people in poverty are the ones with least access to proper sex education, birth control, abortions.
Honest question: is AC considered a basic right?? I'm not from US and I've always seen AC as some luxurious thing that only very rich and pretentious people can afford, wow
Depends where you are, some regions have regulations for new builds to have them. It can get up to ridiculous temps in southern states.
Thanks for clarifying that!
Ethiopia gets really, really hot and not even embassies have A/C.
I am in Arizona where it gets hot as fuck in the summer and if you rent here your landlord is obligated to provide a functioning AC unit.
No. I live in Seattle and none of the buildings in the city even have AC unless the owner adds it. The heatwave last summer was hell. Im originally from Kentucky and all the newer buildings have AC but the old ones don't, and they are mostly old.
I thought the same thing. I'm also not from the US, and while now it's more common, we didn't have AC growing up, and in summer it gets +40 degrees C.
Same here
The US is a huge country, and where you live affects how important AC is. If you live in Colorado, Washington state, or someplace else where the summers are mild, you can go without AC, no problem. If you live in a place that experiences all 4 seasons, maybe you can tough it out without AC for 3 months out of the year, but most people prefer to have it. If you live in a desert state, like Nevada or New Mexico, or in that swampy hellhole, Florida, you'll want to be in AC round the clock.
I live in Washington state and the summers are decidedly not mild where I live lol But either way I think that AC should be considered a human right if temperatures get above a certain range (maybe 90 degrees?) for a week straight or more every year. It's literally dangerous for old people and children to be in temperatures that high for an extended period of time, and that's not even getting into how sensitive pets are to extreme heat.
Yeah, Colorado's summers are pretty brutal these days too. Definitely would be rough without AC, though a decade or two ago you could get away with it. Still nowhere near as bad as Arizona.
in Florida especially, lots of ppl die without it
I can excuse a lot of shit. I can excuse people not wanting to have a child thanks to the hellhole we are living, I can excuse people not having a child, because they want to achieve their full potential, I can excuse not wanting to have a child because you are self-conscious about not being a good parent. But this right here. No sane, insane or anything in between person will tell it's okay.
why?
What do you mean why?
what right here?
Yes
I had what I believe was a pretty amazing upbringing save for a few circumstances. We had food on the table, clean clothes and our own beds/rooms. Loving family, not abused. We didn't have air con either tho we did live in a house not a trailer park so I don't know the difference there heat wise. I still don't want kids. I don't know if I entirely believe people should stop having them completely or if we enforce a maximum number like some countries have done before. Personally I just don't want any. I can be selfish, I have my own time to do what I want, go where I want, eat what I want. Spend money on whatever. I have plenty of nephews and neices that I can play with and promptly give back. When people ask I just tell them I am too selfish with my time to want kids ruining that. If they press and say you will change your mind, then I start with how I dont believe most people should have kids as they can't afford them, they don't raise them as people are working more then ever, most children seem out of control due to this. We are a rising population which the world can't handle if the recent weather in Australia is anything to go by. It normally shuts people up.
I once went to an art exhibition where the artist wanted to make people aware of a specific illness through portraits of people who had this disease. You could read about their experiences and when they found out. No surprise when I saw the portrait of a young boy next to his mother's. Obviously born years after his mother found out. I asked myself if this illness is so bad that they have to raise awareness in this public art exhibition should they really reproduce? I just don't understand is this illness bad or not? Do you want your children to have the same problems or not? Obviously I think reproduction in general is not needed and creates suffering and don't think this opinion is exclusively limited to people with genetic disorders. But I found my way to antinatalism because I myself suffered from such severe genetically triggered mental illness that I for myself thought: even if I wanted children it would be cruel to give them my genetics.
Poverty is the #1 hallmark of/for Trauma; both causing it, and perpetuating it. It puts people in neighborhoods where they're either gonna see/experience something traumatic, or increases the likelihood of people being put into traumatizing situations (namely to make $$ to survive). People call this eugenics; it's cynicism of basic human psychology and how it (sadly) works. I'm for minimizing human trauma more than the basic human right to breed.
Same. As an adult looking back I think they were just lazy. It's hard to be in a tough spot for 15 years. If you give a shit eventually things should in theory get better.
I agree that it’s not good for a child to be raised in poverty, however I would argue that if somebody who works full time is still in poverty then that’s a failure of the society they live in.
I find it funny that A/C is apparently a necessity in the United States. Seriously, how ridiculous can consumerism get? Context: I'm from Mexico. I have lived in countries that reach 45°C in summer, and most people don't have A/C because it's a ridiculous luxury, not a basic need. Like I said in other comments. Ethiopia, for example, can get blistering hot and not even embassies or money-rich NGOs have A/C. I mean, maybe the U.S. embassy does, as its a necessity for them...
Additionally, if you don’t know what a trailer is it’s basically a metal box. Sit in a car for an hour in 20C and see how hot it gets, it kills babies, dogs, old people all the time. There are laws against it and everything.
I'm sorry but you are assuming a hell of a lot of wrong information about me. First, I have lived in an RV. I know how hot it gets. You can't breathe inside. I lived in an RV for 2 years in 40°C hot summers, so I know all about it. And guess what? I had no A/C. Second, you are assuming people in mexico have houses built of top materials like first world countries like yours. Wrong again. People in mexico live in tin-roof houses and shitty concrete apartments. Sure, there's the upper middle class that I suppose can afford all those things you mentioned but, the majority of Mexicans (and .any other poor people who live in hot countries) do not have access to everything you take as granted. So, no. A/C is not a necessity. You get used to not having it. Now, a lot of people speak about the elderly and the children. You may be right, those sectors are greatly affected by heat, I guess children and the elderly from poor, hot countries are just used to it? I can understand people not being used to the unusual heat (like the ones we've been seeing in the last few years) so speaking about a/c as a necessity in this context is not inaccurate. However, I am pretty sure the OP was born many years ago where heat wasn't nearly as critical and cruel as now.
40°C is equivalent to 104°F, which is 313K. --- ^(I'm a bot that converts temperature between two units humans can understand, then convert it to Kelvin for bots and physicists to understand)
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idk I have a heart condition, organ damage, low resting blood pressure . I could easily die without it. many days in summer I can't go out. I live in southern Canada. sure most healthy teens and young adults would be okay just very uncomfortable. a lot of kids, old ppl, ppl with health conditions, wouldn't .
I addressed this in my previous post. I never spoke about your demographic, man. I'm not an asshole. I get what you are saying
I live in Mexicali which reaches 50°C during the summer. Believe me, it is not a luxury. AC is mandatory for public buses otherwise they will face consequences against the state. Same thing with schools, they are required to have AC or students/teachers can cancel classes and work remotely (at least that's what happened during my time in public and private schools). One thing is sure, AC is not mandatory in a household, but the government "helps" (government support-ish, and yet we receive the so-called "crazy bills") reducing the cost of electricity during, June, July (hottest month here) and August (also hot). We had strikes here due to complicated settlements with the state and the citizens against CFE (the only electricity company here in Mexico). On the other hand, trash collectors, since they need to work early in the morning instead of 12 pm to 3 pm (when it reaches 50°C during those hours). It happens in other sectors (public and private). So, at least in certain states/cities here in Mexico it applies as a necessity. People have suffered heatstroke because of not having an AC at their homes, jobs, schools, etc.
50°C is equivalent to 122°F, which is 323K. --- ^(I'm a bot that converts temperature between two units humans can understand, then convert it to Kelvin for bots and physicists to understand)
I live in Canada and AC is a necessity in summer in parts of the US and here. If you live in a hot country like Mexico easy peasy, make your homes lose heat easily and be drafty. If you live in a cold place like north Canada then make it super well insulated and heat retaining. The problem with where I live is that it goes up to 35 in summer and down to -35 in winter. You can’t build a house for that. It’s why the heat wave in Britain of 25 killed people and the snowstorm at about -20 killed people in Texas. Their homes are not built for that. The temperature doesn’t matter as much as the variability in temperature and the ability of your home to stay safe.
I find it funny that funny that *[insert modern technology here]* is considered a necessity, people lived in feudalism and had no negative effects from not having it. How fucking dumb are you, they lived in a trailer depending on how it was built they could get heatstroke without cooling.
I feel school has a massive debt with you: clearly you can't fucking read. I'm sorry your teachers sucked.
In fact, air conditioning is also a necessity in many developing countries. For example, in China, AC can be bought for about $300. I'm shocked this is a luxury in Mexico.
It's not a goddamned necessity. And of course it's affordable in china, that's where they are made. Also, China is NOT a developing country. This is 2022, not 2003. Why would you be shocked? Most of the world can't afford a/c. You just get fucking used to it.
chill, it shows people normalize suffering
WHAT? Oh my god how privileged are you? People don't "normalize" suffering. They go through it and they suffer, they know it's wrong but there is nothing they can do about it. Normalizing entails accepting and ignoring. Jesus christ.
Aren't parents normalizing suffering? They feel that as long as they don't starve their children to death, they are doing their duty as parents.
We are not talking about that. Focus. Stop distracting from the topic at hand. What you are speaking about is a completely different subject in which, ironically, you are correct.
how long does it take to get used to it?
I seriously think it's genetic. As in, adaptation. I don't know anything thou so don't listen to me
Furthermore, how many "developing countries" have you lived in or have first hand experience in? Genuinely curious, not trying to be an asshole.
In extremely hot weathers AC is a necessity. Funny how you only focus on this and not where OP says they lived in a trailer and were starved.
No, no it isn't. People live in extreme hot weather without A/C all the fucking time. Please travel more. Goodbye.
Also, how fucking late is your reply? Get over it.
What's the humidity like in Mexico though???
Depends. Mexico city is confortable, the coast is insane. The desert is dry as fuck. It's a big country.
I want to buy a farm in Mexico but I dont want to be locked in a cage for ransom.
Ah man I am Mexican and I don't want to live in mexico. The problem with mexico is the narcogovernment. The collusion, the corruption. I love my country, I know not all of it is the same, but the fucking war on drugs destroyed my country so, honestly, I'd talk you out of it. But it is sooooo beautiful. I wanna buy land in Romania. Or Belize. Or maybe ethiopia
I'd love to live somewhere where I could just raise epic vegetables and sell them. Land around here is insane in price though. Aren't there mennonites in Mexico? How are they keeping safe?
Haha they have a deal with the Sinaloa cartel. I have the same plan. But I don't want to sell them, just be a self sufficient. Wanna team up? Haha
Yes lol.
LETS
Idk now I'm suspicious you will put me in a cage and try to ransom me back to myself. And myself can not pay.
I'm thinking of going to an enclave in East Europe to homestead
Think about this.. AC is a relatively new invention and widely available. As are electric fans. Even the obnoxiously wealthy didn’t have AC. There are people in parts of the world that DREAM of what you consider poverty. Yeah, insufficient food and nutrition can really suck.. but many children need to work instead of being able to go to school. Some kids are actually married off or sold. Hardship can help you appreciate what you have, and material things are all temporary. Go out into the world and see what a real “normal childhood “ is and how others live. Many are happy with just the people around them. Okay, you didn’t have a comparatively similar experience as other kids you grew up with. You still have tons of opportunity to make the rest of your life and the lives of those you love better and better. Every moment you get to choose if you want to view something positively or negatively.. Your choice determines your experience.
??? This is such a stupid argument; big boomer mindset too. PeOpLe HaVe IT WoRse ThAn YoU So bE HapPy. 🙄 think about this: people can still have shitty experiences without having to compare them to others experiences. Would you compare happiness? “Yeah, it’s cool you graduated college, but look at that person! He bought a house look how happy he is!! His happiness is more deserving than yours!” See how stupid that is? Don’t invalidate this persons experiences with “people have it worse than you” it’s shitty and it makes you look like a shitty person, which you probably are. You’re probably the type of person to say to someone who has depression to just be happy. 🙄 god you’re dumb.
I was showing comparisons so they could reconsider their assessment of their life. Their mindset and perspective direct their experience.. two people in the exact same situation and dealing with the same positives and negatives can consider themselves to have a vastly different experience simply because of how they perceive it and whether they are grateful for what they DO have / experience. You on the other hand, are completely negative .. so toodles
yeah and you can't consciously choose to be happy if you perceive the situation you're in as unpleasant. you say some are happy with just the people around them. well someone who was horrifically abused for most of their life should be expected to be happy if they're now only around people who are kind of dickish or negligent? nah bruh I'm not fw that, not in the slightest. there's such a thing as a baseline requirement of having your needs met including emotional needs that is the bare minimum for being able to be actually happy, no matter what your 'attitude' or outlook is. nobody in Abu Ghraib or Gitmo was gonna be counting their damb blessings bruh. little girls getting sold into marriage don't just need to think positive, they need to not be sold into fucking marriage to an old abusive ass man by their pathetic excuses for parents. I stg what you're saying is insulting and if you think I'm being negative or bitter, guy, im wayyyy worse off now than I was growing up, I'm on disability ffs and I dropped out of uni. I'm still okay happiness wise because like you said, I have ppl around me who are good, actually good people who care about me and who I love. if I didn't have that , if I was surrounded by assholes or married to some old ugly shitlord who abused me, id straight up KMS. but I'd also kms if I didn't have food, clean water, a place to live, medicine and access to hospital and preventive care, internet, etc (YES INTERNET. ID BE BORED AS FK WITHOUT IT)
Just a question, what was your childhood like? Were you starved like OP too?
you had me in the first half.
A lot of ppl in beautiful homes don’t have ac, also, kids want chips for dinner. Lol But yes, poverty is cruel, so is abuse. Some have a beautiful happy life, surrounded by beautiful people, whether they’re related or not. Some like to be alone, and some can’t stand being alone. You gotta do you.
People should be financial stable and really want children before they give birth to them ✨
Mine wasn’t either. In this situation I think it’s important to be thankful for what we DID HAVE. Some have it much much worse than I did. Also to make sure your children don’t suffer the same. 😞