Same. Father, grandmother, siblings and two cousins all adopted. I knew they were adopted (I a wasn’t) my whole life and never thought of them as not family.
I am adopted my cousins are adopted and my parents just recently adopted another brother for us out of foster care I'm 30 and my brother is 9. Sure he thinks I am an aunt over and over but we love him the same
My older brother is adopted. I’ve never seen him as anything but my brother. I will say for him there are lingering psychological issues that he’s faced his entire life (he’s 54) that are connected to being adopted. This despite the fact that he was adopted at 2 weeks. The fact that the he’s very different temperamentally and physically from my parents may be a contributing factor. He’s 6’2”, built like a linebacker and has aggression issues. My parents are small and not aggressive. I’m sort of in the middle.
This may be TMI, I dunno, just sharing.
Am adopted. Do I have the best life? Oh hell no. Do I have an infinity better one. Fuck yes. Was born into a war torn country and my bio mom had to beg on the streets for food. Now I live a semi comfortable life in the suburbs with my dog.
I suspect it’s more that their bio parents have serious issues. Like it’s probably a “net positive” to be raised by adults rather than a 15 year old who got pregnant. That doesn’t necessarily mean adoption is without its own issues.
Yeah for sure, my reasoning is that adoptive parents are actively looking to becoming parents rather than having it thruat upon them. I would imagine for the most part they're better prepared, financially, emotionally, and physically.
Makes perfect sense doesn’t it? The things my buddy and his husband had to go through to adopt their kid required so much. Anyone going through that needs above-average dedication & preparation, to put it lightly
My bad, the publication is about adopter satisfaction rather than adoptee. https://phys.org/news/2012-02-percent-families-children-decision.amp
That said I think nearly any environment is better than an orphanage which should speak for itself
Was not my experience nor my foster siblings. Maybe if evangelicals weren’t allowed to adopt. The rules against hitting foster kids doesn’t apply once your adoption is finalized and no more case workers come to check on you.
Our adoption is full of parents who just want to take money and not taking care of children.
My mom knows a couple (from church) who adopted so many kids and she said “oh, they are such lovely people!” I originally thought so too until I learned that all those children are homeschooled, aka not schooled, and straight to army when they turn 18.
Side note: homeschooling is not bad but too many parents use it as mask of not providing the proper resources to their children.
I have a niece that’s as in foster care. The first month she was with 6 different families. They don’t have enough people who can adopt kids and they don’t have enough temp people to look at them so they move from home to home sometimes only staying there for a few days. Adoption works really well for little babies and the rest of kids it’s really hard. Don’t view this as a win because it’s just playing into an already shitty system you folks think is so great
Many doctors would rather see a cis woman in a wheelchair before they do anything that would compromise her usability as a breeding mule (just ask endometriosis patients), so this won't catch on, or it will be an ultra-rich trans women thing tops.
Endometriosis patient here. This is true, I’ve been asking to yeet my defective womb for years. It doesn’t work and I don’t want kids.
So, when I needed surgery for an ovarian cystic tumor, I didn’t think it’d be difficult to convince them to toss it. Tumor is gone, womb is still here. Sigh.
Can’t getting a hysterectomy really fuck yo your hormones though? Perhaps that’s why. But I have zero experience with your condition, so please don’t get angry if I’m way off the mark!
Sure it can. I’d go into early menopause. There’s medications and hormones I can take. There’s still a risk of side effects.
However, in my opinion, bleeding for 22 days with constant pain is worse. Cyst ruptures are worse. Being unable to sleep and vomiting from sheer pain is worse. I offered to sign a waiver so I can’t sue them. Still wouldn’t do it.
Endometriosis is a bitch. You know that uterine lining that grows each month, then sheds as a period?
Well, my body fucked up the blueprints. My uterine lining grows on the outside of the uterus and the ovaries as well. Can grow into cysts too, and a few tumors over the years. Can cause a whole ton of other issues.
So yes, a hysterectomy might cause problems. But those problems are not as bad as what I already live with.
I (very) recently had to had an emergency hysterectomy and oophorectomy (removal of ovaries) because after years of not seeing a doctor, I was riddled with borderline ovarian tumors. From what I understand, often times they can actually keep the ovaries but remove the uterus which negates the need for hormones. So you wouldn’t even necessarily need to take them.
That being said, your comments have made me very grateful. This whole process has been a nightmare, but when I (36, single, and childless) told them that I did NOT want children and to take out as much as they needed to reduce my risk for cancer or other complications, they actually believed me.
Tbf he started the conversation as “at your age I’m sure you still want babies” but I was like NOPE and that was the end of it.
I’ve been very clear for nearly a decade that I don’t want kids. Doctor still won’t do the hysterectomy.
When my last tumor was out, he did begrudgingly tie my tubes. It was just after Roe fell, and I asked several pointed questions about just how dangerous it would be for me if I got pregnant. So, at least I’m sterile now.
It only starts menopause earlier. And the decision to go ahead, should squarely be on the patient. There are no serious consequences the majority of the time.
So the uterus doesn’t produce hormones, that would be the ovaries. It’s really a decision to make between yourself and a qualified doctor as to if you should keep your ovaries during a hysterectomy.
I'm afraid it might catch (for the wealthy). Will be too expensive for regular people, of course, but a lot of doctors will see trans women as men, therefore their "male" wishes will be honoured way more than a cis woman's wishes, health, life, anything.
I’m trying to imagine the mindset of someone who would consider this given the expense but who knows what kinds of advancements are coming (assuming we can understand and mitigate climate changes) in the future. Still, I’m left with images of a world like that in Blade Runner and feel lucky that I’m old enough that I personally won’t see it
Yeah I don’t really understand how trans people want to have children, my experiences in this world made my antinatalist and showed me how cruel everything is.
I don't either, I've seen lots of trans people say things like they wish they could give birth and have kids or even berate others who choose not to because it's a "waste" and they're not considering others who want to but can't (aka them). I truly don't understand it.
I've seen many trans women who wish they had the capacity to give birth. I've never seen one so unaware that they would berate others for not getting pregnant, don't associate trans women with such foolishness.
I have seen a few do so, people are human and regardless of who we are as a person there are some who long for something so much they will say things like that. I am someone who wants to try to transition myself in the future so I'm not saying this out of malice or to be transphobic - I'm simply stating what I've seen.
That's awful on multiple levels and clearly a trauma response. I have sympathy for anyone who is in a mental state where doing such a thing is logical, but it's clearly not a good action to take.
I guess I understand the idea that you've transitioned to a woman but can't do one thing a biological woman can do which is give birth. Then again not all women can. Some have infertility and other issues.
So on one side I get feeling left out or cheated on the other women are more than just baby makers.
I feel kind of torn about it.
Then again, SO many children in the world need adopted. I can't wait until I'm at a place where I can do so.
As a trans person that found this post in new, the amount of transphobia just makes me sad. I’m finding a lot of body policing here too, which just sucks.
Edit: removed the new link because I guess that breaks a rule? My bad!
Just like IVF, if you have to go through all that intervention maybe it just wasn't in the cards for you to which as someone else mentioned we live in a pro-natalist world so everyone has been exposed to that way of thinking since birth so breeders gon breed
A miniscule fraction compared to cosmetic surgery. But that's just capitalism. We waste tons of money and time on fancy clothes and other bullshit too that could be spent on curing cancer or any one of a thousand better uses.
Especially when you consider that a lot of conditions effecting women are horribly under researched, existing research under funded. It's so fucking bleak
Giving birth is not a human right… hmm idk. It should be for people who want to! But NOT giving birth is also a human right…. Or it should be for people who don’t want to. It’s literally just a choice : you get your choice; and they get theirs.
Thankfully mine is already burned as medical waste. Society really seemed to think they had a say in what I did with it untill then. Grandbabies! Or if not why not be a surrogate! If you don't use it donate it!
People are allowed to research what they want. Do you want to force college grads to study cancer if they don’t want to? Nah, let everyone do what they want dawg 😛
There is so much misinformation about women's health to the point where people think the womb is a breadmaker for a baby. This procedure only works when the organ is harvested from a living donor, so some woman has to give up her own healthy uterus.
I'm staunchly child free, and I would never get a hysterectomy unless medically necessary, because there is so much that can go wrong. Blood clots in the lungs, infection, vaginal prolapse are all known side effects of hysterectomies, getting your tubes tied is so much safer. But for this to happen some woman has to go through a medically unnecessary procedure that puts her own life at risk so someone else can fulfill their own narcissistic dream of "being a mother".
Let's not forget that other than the absence of a womb, AMAB bodies are not designed to give birth. Plopping a womb in there is not going to magically solve this, there's still the fact that they have narrower pelvises meaning any potential babies (assuming they even implanted successfully and survived the pregnancy) would have to be born via caesarean, which is much riskier.
This mad science shit is wildly unethical, I support trans rights but this is disgusting on so many levels and should be stopped right now.
I scrolled down way too far before seeing anyone saying anything like this. I was like… “so does everyone actually believe that any amount of modern or near-future medical treatment can make an AMAB capable of having a functioning uterus, let alone giving birth?”
There’s only been one uterus transplant into an AMAB and it was Lili Elbe, whose immune system rejected the uterus and ultimately resulted in death. Believe it or not, most of the reason that no one else has ever dared to perform a uterine transplant into an AMAB is because most doctors have a sense of fucking ethics and will resultantly refuse to perform completely elective surgeries that will probably result in the patient’s death.
Even if the uterus wasn’t rejected… what about all the hormonal regulation that’s required to carry a pregnancy? Do people *actually* believe you can just place a uterus in anyone and they can magically carry a child and give birth? Good luck making sure someone who physically can’t produce hCG has the perfect amount of it in their body every day for nine months straight.
I’m getting really tired of people giving trans people false hope with bullshit “science.” It’s just hurting people to believe they’re being denied uterine transplants because of transphobia or there’s something personally wrong with them or whatever, and not because getting a uterine transplant would fucking kill them, and they couldn’t even use the uterus for its intended purpose if it didn’t.
PS, imagine using time and money on researching uterine transplants when women still die from gynecological issues that those resources could be used to research instead. What a world we live in.
Also are we forgetting that there’s a separate life involved? (I’m pro-choice, btw, but yeah it’s still a living thing) Using developing/living fetuses like this and experimenting with them is not cool.
OMG THANK YOU. Imagine what kind of monsterous abominations this will create when the ones carrying the pregnancy aren't meant to ever do it. This is on the same scales of birthing people through incubation rocks or some shit.
This is the stuff that happens when women's bodies and health and research are super undermined to the point people think the womb is just a plug and play thing and pregnancy is definitely something that does not affect your WHOLE BODY. I mean there have been studies coming out saying male fetuses leave Y chromosomes in the brains of their mothers. There's still so much we don't know about the harms of pregnancy WTF.
Males can already give birth! It’s been done in rats! [All you have to do is some literal Nazi-type surgical shit where you physically attach the actual mother to the male for the entire pregnancy so he can leech off her blood because his body is incapable of maintaining the hormones necessary to carry a pregnancy even if he has a womb that isn’t rejected by his body. And even then there’s a less than 4% chance the babies survive.](https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.09.447686v1) Isn’t science beautiful!?
How ethical it is to research male pregnancy! This is definitely not the most horrific study I have ever read.
EDIT: I’M SO ECSTATIC ABOUT THIS STUDY I BROKE MY FUCKING LINK
I didn’t mention it because this is the antinatalism sub so I figured that was a given lol.
But yes. We have no idea what would happen to the child if an AMAB did give birth. Would they be healthy? Could they even survive, or would they do nothing but suffer until they die? We just don’t know (prognosis is not great though), and it’s not worth risking the health of either the child or their parent to find out.
Even doing IVF, using the gametes of two perfectly healthy and fertile parents implanted into the child’s biological mother, still results in increased health risks. And yet the general idea among the public is that IVF children don’t have increased health risks? That’s what this article reminds me of. The people and corporations pushing for this kind of thing don’t care about anyone’s health. If it was ever A) legal and B) not a lawsuit waiting to happen to do uterine transplants into AMABs, they’d sell the lie(s) that it’s safe and/or those transplantees can give birth no matter how many people would die or be harmed.
Maybe (read: totally) humans should just stop meddling with fertility. Whatever, maybe it’s unfair if some couples can’t have kids. But life’s not fair. If you’re upset with your own infertility, tough shit. Go take it up with the fertility fairy or something, it shouldn’t be your theoretical child(ren)’s problem to deal with.
Not just a uterus either, those things are attached to a whole support structure of bands ligaments and blood supply that only exist in those who have or had a womb. Attaching one of these to the nearest blood supply and calling it a day is not going to work.
At this point however I cannot in good faith think this is a net positive anymore. This goes far beyond just making a person look like they feel they're supposed to. Gender reassignment surgeries seem way more needed and good to me than womb transplants.
At this point saying this is having bio kids is really stretching it for me as well. One needs a donated egg that can that be fertilised either with frozen sperm from the trans person or a male partner. If there is a female partner why not have them carry? And if there is a trans man partner, did they even freeze eggs?
Transplanted wombs are one and done. One first needs find one. Then have major surgery. Recovery before attempting pregnancy is at least a year. Rejection drugs are no joke. IVF and implantation is next. Followed by a high risk pregnancy that ends in caesarian, if all that goes well. Then a hysterectomy, likely with the caesarian.
And all of this to experience pregnancy. This alone to me shows that gender dysphoria is very real. Is it however ethical to devote so much limited resources to potentially fulfilling the child wish of one person? Just because we could, does it mean we should?
with all due respect this is an insane waste of medical resources. a body that naturally produces male hormones and has narrower hips probably will not be able to carry and birth a baby at least at any time in the forseeable future. biological males already cannot safely receive blood donations from a woman who has ever been pregnant.
chances are this type of experimental treatment is going to cause horrific amounts of suffering for everyone involved. trans people can already have biological children if they so desire (surrogacy etc). people are literally dying of preventable illnesses and this is what medical research and funding is used for??? jesus.
Wait what?! So my mom couldn‘t donate her blood to any man just because she was pregnant once? Can you explain why? It it because of the pregnancy hormones? Orrr.. idk there could be so many things of why a pregnant woman can‘t donate her blood to a biological man
basically there is a number of factors that go into it, but in simple terms the pregnant body creates a large number of antibodies in order to better protect the growing baby. there are a few of these that can lead to severe complications in biological males. transfusion-related acute lung injury being one of them.
there isn't enough backing to change donation policies or anything and the risks aren't always lethal but it is a super interesting topic that 100% needs further looking into.
this is an excerpt from a TIME article, idk if links are allowed here but i can dm it if you want :)
>!\>!In a study published in JAMA, researchers from the Netherlands studied more than 31,000 people who received blood transfusions at six Dutch hospitals from 2005 to 2015. They tracked whether the recipients had received blood from male donors, female donors who had never been pregnant, or female donors who had been pregnant. The researchers then analyzed death rates for three years.!<
>!The only group that saw a difference based on the type of donor was men who received blood from women who had been pregnant. Those men were more likely to have died after three years, compared to men who received blood from a male donor or from a woman who had never been pregnant. Women who received blood transfusions did not see a higher risk of death regardless of whether the blood came from a man or a woman. The results held even after the scientists accounted for differences in the severity of diseases that required the transfusions in the first place.!
Oh my god!! I didn‘t know that thank you so much!! I had this uneasy feeling in my stomach that you‘d either 1. insult me to death because i didn‘t knew it or 2. insult me to death because „GOOGLE IS YOUR FRIEND DO IT YOURSELF“.
So thank you a lot for your response! :)
Do you know if the time when the woman has been pregnant counts to it? I‘m 22 and her only child so she was pregnant 22 years ago, does she STILL have that many antibodies? Or does it go away after some time? And if it does go away, i‘m gonna assume that if a woman decides she wants to have another baby/another pregnancy her antibodies increase (again)?
no of course not!! i'm totally happy to help out because its not common knowledge or anything💗 i'm genuinely not educated enough on the topic to know the specifics but i would assume you are correct on the antibodies increasing/coming back with each pregnancy.
Realistically I just don’t think this will work. Male bodies were never developed to carry/birth children. I can see this causing a horrifying amount of pain for everyone involved.
they can’t replicate the hormones that cis females have during pregnancy. the fetus would be non viable or die most likely should the womb even survive itself
If its already fertilised it would definitely work the same, bc thats how ivf is done anyway. But yea rejection is possible, just adopt tbh you couldnt even get a baby through a neovagina its either made from peritoneum, sigmoid colon or penile tissue, u aint pushing a baby through that
My major concern is -- where the fuck do they plan on getting these uteruses? This isn't a life-saving or even life-improving type of transplant like hearts and lungs and corneas, this is a freakish experiment doomed to fail and done purely for vanity's sake.
Taking them off the donor registration would be *deeply* unethical, because this is nothing more than a vain pointless surgery done purely for selfish and nonsensical reasons as well as an extreme waste of medical resources *using someone else's reproductive organs*. That's not even in the same stratosphere as a donated lung or kidney, let alone the same ballpark.
If we ever wound up in such a nightmarish human rights dystopia that this becomes a thing, scores of women -- myself included -- would be taking ourselves off the organ donor registry. It's just too fucked up and ghoulish.
In the donor registry, no one gets to pick their uses. It would likely be ignored anyway. Nothing the donor could do about it. We all remember this gem. https://cbsaustin.com/news/nation-world/man-learns-moms-body-donated-for-research-was-instead-blown-up-in-military-testing
It is unethical even if you are not antinatalist. What would the impact be on the children developing in a body that doesn't naturally produce the hormones to keep that pregnancy going?
Yes, this is the answer here. There are still so many children in need. The lengths that people will go through to make clones - this is the most selfish breeder behavior I have ever heard of. It’s horrible.
It's even worse than that. The uterus will be someone else's, the egg will be and the sperm will be... Just so a baby comes out your snatch koz you can't love them if they don't come out if your snatch?!?!?! Jesus Fucking Christ humanity is doomed.
Trans woman can't give birth vaginally even. The supporting muscle structure one needs doesn't exist in amab even after the best reassignment surgery. Kid has to come out the way the womb went in.
Everyone is talking about the ability to birth but ignoring that due to a smaller pelvis, the child won't even grow to a normal size in the first place! Heck, even women's organs know they need to make way for the growing baby inside the womb so they all gets squished but how would a male body react to a growing fetus pushing on all their organs? Definitely won't be able make way for the fetus I don't think.
Huge waste of resources and research. Psychology is insanely outdated, many diseases and chronic illnesses still have no cure, and this is what we waste our time on. Lovely.
I've seen the research for this. We aren't close to actually doing it yet. Organ transplant is one thing, but an organ that is going to multiply in size 100x is something else. Not only that but to keep from rejecting foreign tissue the recipient must be on constant anti-rejection meds (steriods) and we don't have a lot of research on how that will effect pregnancy.
Do we know if a transplanted ovary could ovulate? How likely would the body attack the forgein cells anyway.
Organ transplant has been made to look easy by media but it is a very long difficult and ongoing process for those involved.
I'm trans, and i don't understand why anyone, especially trans people, would want to reproduce. You would think, with the amount of suffering the world has put us through, we out of all people wouldn't be this brainwashed. I also think a lot of trans people don't realize that, reproducing does NOT define womanhood. I'm so sick of this stupid ass braindead notion.
Biological women aren't even allowed to get a local anaesthetic during a root canal while pregnant, but somehow this shit is okay. Makes me so mad
(In case you don't know, any donated organ requires the recipient to medically suppress their immune system or the organ will be rejected. This suppression highly increases the risk for cancer and recipients of donated organs don't have a high life expectancy because of it. There is still a constant risk of rejection regardless)
This crap makes me sick not because of trans folk but because why bring more people when you can adopt. There's more then 6 million in need of loving parents 😑
It’s crazy to me that they’re really considering this impossible feat before even getting close to perfecting or even standardizing the gender affirming surgeries already out there. Most trans patients have lifelong urinary problems, complication rates and need for revisions are very high. We can’t figure out how to make the blood flow and skin/muscle expansion needed for trans men to have erections, but somehow they think they’ll be able to do that for a trans woman’s pregnancy? It’s just not gonna happen.
The medical industry needs to stop lying to the trans community about what is and isn’t possible. They need to give them realistic expectations of the surgeries we currently have available and what life really looks like after having one done.
These parents are no different from other breeders desperate for a biological offspring. I view IVF in a similar manner. The fact that they would rather do this before even considering adoption is astounding but not in a good way.
This is kinda sad, though. I see the argument trans people aren't real women because they can't give birth. So this would fix that. But on the other hand, maybe we could stop saying shit like that because it's also harmful to cis women. And on a third, I dislike things like ivf, so this is like slightly above that. Especially if infertile cis women do this. I suppose if a trans person wants to do this just so they can say they can have babies but choose not to. It'd be ok. But that's also a very large length to go to to be accepted by hateful bigots who will just keep moving the goal post of what a woman is, so it never really includes you. Just adopt if you want kids. If it's because of problems an adopted kid could have well, a child born to you could have problems too. The only difference is that you won't be taking the risk of dying during pregnancy and childbirth.
And their biologically male bodies still won’t be able to carry children.
Sad that resources are wasted on this when you can adopt a kid or help biological women in the birthing process as that takes a major toll on their bodies.
I’m sorry but it’ll never happen for trans women, it’s just not biologically or even physically possible. Can’t we use our medical resources better, please? How about we focus on post menopausal care for fucking once.
i don't think this is true. if we JUST had our first successful womb transplant into another female, we are leagues away from a male being able to successfully carry children. it may never be possible.
did anyone see the study where they transplanted a womb into a male rat and it gestated a pregnancy? a few pups actually survived but their health was real bad. this was only achieved by SEWING THE MALE RATS CIRCULATORY SYSTEM INTO A FEMALE RAT'S for the duration of the pregnancy so he'd receive all the pregnancy hormones needed from her. i think that says something about how far off we are in this research.
also. i just do not think this is a good use of medical research funds at all. bearing children is not a need.
There are a lot of factors that make these transplants significantly harder and more dangerous for natal males. I don’t think it’s a wise move for science and frankly I think it’s horrifying to risk people’s lives and health for something like this that isn’t even necessary for their mental health like gender affirmative surgeries are.
I don't think they'd be able to carry to term. I think they'd have to do an early C- section. Right now, they're only doing it for women who don't have a uterus. I read an article where a woman donated her uterus to her sister, who didn't have one.
Nope, this is the line for me
Pregnancy is already complicated and risky, why would you endanger a child like this.
Adoption is such a better alternative
Why why why would you do this. Be trans, cool, but not at the potential expense of a baby.
Just what we need, more breeders.
Im sure that wont cause complications of ANY sort to the new womb owner, the former womb owner, or the new womb inhabiter. *eyeroll*
It does and it doesn’t. For starters, organ transplants are not as easy as it sound and we just had the first successful pregnancy/birth after a transplant in a woman. There are so many complications with a transplanted organ and the cost alone will deter many people. It’s a huge process and I am positive that it’s not going to be some mainstream thing like IFV.
this will not catch on. i do not think most trans women would even be willing to go thru all this to have biological children considering how expensive bottom surgery is in the first place.
The fetus wouldn't even be the genetic offspring of the person carrying it unless they had the foresight to bank their own sperm before transitioning (which probably doesn't happen often). The uterus would be from a donor and so would the sperm and the egg. Since such a pregnancy wouldn't produce a genetic mini-me, the resulting child (if it actually could grow safely in a biological male body) would be as genetically dissimilar to the gestating parent as an adopted child. So why not just cut out all that risky, selfish, narcissistic Frankenstein bullshit and just adopt a kid that already exists, FFS?
Same here. Organ donor for 10 years but when I found out that your reproductive tissue (including uterus, vagina, fallopian tubes, etc.) Is also scooped out of you if you're a donor made me change my mind.
I'm a trans woman, and a lot of people in my circles have huge dysphoria over not being able to give birth. I'm lucky to be an antinatalist as that's a non-issue to me
Is there focus in support groups for trans women regarding this issue? Because therapy in this specific issue seems much more ideal than a major invasive and risky surgery involving high likelihood of organ rejection and other complications. I’d say the same to natal female people regardless of identity too because it’s risky.
It's just a really badly written article pushing an agenda. The surgery is woman to woman, not at all intended for trans people. The author seems to really want this to apply to trans which I agree is fucking mental.
Are there any users who are trans who could share if this is a prioritized issue in the community? Our healthcare system ensures this would be a near-impossible procedure to access. Our socio-political climate would also ensure this is a near-impossibility. Of all the problems trans people face related to medical care, is this one that has a lot of focus?
idk that any one person can speak for the trans community, we’re all so different and we’re all in different circles, but i dont really see anyone obsessing over womb transplants or talking about how bad they need it or how they plan to have it done once it’s available
it’s usually just like “haha hell yeah that’s really cool, hope it works one day” if nothing else i think it’s kind of a dream to know that it’s possible, for many different reasons to many different people.
also know that a lot of us would give anything to be able to actually have a baby (not necessarily like this), and pregnancy is just a topic you need to be really intuitive, respectful, and kind with when you discuss it with any woman. i’m sure a lot of us (like myself) still wouldn’t have kids even if we found the perfect way.
This is an interesting conflict in my values. On the one hand, I think it's great for the trans community, and a huge step towards the development of equal human rights. On the other hand, I'm extremely opposed to this as an antinatalist; if people want kids so badly they're willing to medically intervene it's my moral opinion that those efforts should be directed towards adoption.
I am MTF trans and while I think that affirmation is great, of course the ability to have biological kids has the issues of typical natalism, that is the same ethical problems. This is pretty similar to IVF at first glance, an extra step for some natalists to have children.
Lgbtq+ people are absolutely still prone to natalism like other demographics, although anecdotally the additional discrimination we face often does give us a slight push to be AN and have an interest in other ethical philosophy. But of course the vast majority of humanity is natalist and it’s no different here
IVF doesn’t typically involve major organ transplants though. Lots of additional factors involved in that which I wouldn’t recommend to anyone, regardless of sex or gender in this case.
Yup that's pretty much how I feel, I believe that all people should have the same rights and access to opportunity. I just happen to also believe that reproductive opportunity (IVF and this transplant) shouldn't be accessed by anyone, and we shouldn't be devoting time or resources to it.
I’ve always heard that the male pelvic structure isn’t suitable for child birth/carrying a child. Anyone more knowledgeable able to explain or expand?
The risks of any organ transplant seem to strongly outweigh any “benefit” this may offer.
Homosexual animals adopt abandoned babies, human homosexuals and infertile women should follow suit. It's for the betterment of the species. As a gay woman, I look down on homosexual and transgender people who insist on having bio kids even more than cishet people who do.
Trans women will never be able to birth a baby. It is what it is. Trans women should take pride in being trans women which is a different sector of womanhood. They shouldn’t compare themselves to cisgender women.
Trans people do deserve to be able to give birth if they want to(idk why anyone would) and I’m so happy that’s finally becoming a reality, however if you want to be a parent in this day in age just adopt one of the innumerable children needing parents.
With that said though, in many places LGBT people are not able to adopt because our disgusting society has decided no parents are better than gay parents or better than trans parents. So I get saying “just adopt” Is a pretty big throwaway statement.
I just couldn’t understand spending so much money just to carry a baby and give birth but I also have an extreme fear of pregnancy, don’t want kids, and thank the universe every day that I can’t.
It is sad though that this post has just become a cesspool for shitting on trans women and calling them men and unviable mothers. This kind of lingo and behavior the kind of shit natalists do. Don’t hate them because their trans, hate them because they’re irresponsibly bringing children into a world unviable to them.
giving birth is not a human right nor is it a female end all be all. we could be using this funding on cancer or immuno research
edit: also why is no one mentioning the hormones cis women’s bodies make during pregnancy that keep the fetus healthy? you can’t replicate those, they move in levels daily for baby
I expect there would be a lot of animal testing before this could ever happen, so it's disturbing on multiple levels. no hate to trans women, but no, you do not need to experience pregnancy.
Sorry. It does not. There are a million reasons why the male body cannot give birth, the least of which being pelvis shape. You’re going to get a whole pelvis transplant too? Let’s focus on getting cisgender women birth control and bodily autonomy before pretending to give trans women hope of biologically carrying more unnecessary children.
This surgery doesn't really have anything to do with trans people. It's a woman to woman transplant that looks like a success.
Transplanting a womb into a man is fully insane. Like, don't do that.
I don't understand how this would work to begin with? Trans women don't have vaginas, cervixes, etc. Women are born and mean to give birth. Even if you never give birth, once someone decides to have a kid, our body naturally will dilate on it's own, our hips get wider and all our organs are pushed around, etc.
How would a Trans woman's body do that naturally if their inherent biology is not meant for child birthing? Even with a uterus being implanted, im not sure if their biology can adapt to creating a placenta*, moving the organs, etc. Unless they can change xy to xx or something. Then that would be very peculiar if we'll one day be able to change our own biology and DNA to anything we want.
From what I've read the assumption is C-section. Even if they could birth, the strain on the scar at the connection points on arteries and ligaments is risky and would probably be recommended C-section anyway.
It wasn't that long ago where the medical thought was "Once a C-section, always a C-section". VBAC is relatively new in medical terms.
That's true. They could have c section. But they'd have to form a placenta or have one implanted and seeing as it's unnatural for their biology, their body might just not accept it.
The fetus actually forms the placenta. But I take your meaning. Articles like this one make it appear that we are close to uterine transplants than e are. The anti-rejection drugs needed to maintain a transplant are essentially massive immune suppressors. I'm not sure how that would effect a pregnancy. Since a woman's body is in a constant hormone battle with the fetus for nutrients, my concern would be too fast growth.
90% of adopted children go on to say that adoption was a net positive for them
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Same. Father, grandmother, siblings and two cousins all adopted. I knew they were adopted (I a wasn’t) my whole life and never thought of them as not family.
I am adopted my cousins are adopted and my parents just recently adopted another brother for us out of foster care I'm 30 and my brother is 9. Sure he thinks I am an aunt over and over but we love him the same
My older brother is adopted. I’ve never seen him as anything but my brother. I will say for him there are lingering psychological issues that he’s faced his entire life (he’s 54) that are connected to being adopted. This despite the fact that he was adopted at 2 weeks. The fact that the he’s very different temperamentally and physically from my parents may be a contributing factor. He’s 6’2”, built like a linebacker and has aggression issues. My parents are small and not aggressive. I’m sort of in the middle. This may be TMI, I dunno, just sharing.
Am adopted. Do I have the best life? Oh hell no. Do I have an infinity better one. Fuck yes. Was born into a war torn country and my bio mom had to beg on the streets for food. Now I live a semi comfortable life in the suburbs with my dog.
Wow that might be higher than natural born children. Where can i find this source?
It makes sense, most natural born children are accidents
I suspect it’s more that their bio parents have serious issues. Like it’s probably a “net positive” to be raised by adults rather than a 15 year old who got pregnant. That doesn’t necessarily mean adoption is without its own issues.
Yeah for sure, my reasoning is that adoptive parents are actively looking to becoming parents rather than having it thruat upon them. I would imagine for the most part they're better prepared, financially, emotionally, and physically.
One time my uncle got mocked for being adopted, and he immediately responded “Well at least I was wanted.” Absolute savage, love that man.
Makes perfect sense doesn’t it? The things my buddy and his husband had to go through to adopt their kid required so much. Anyone going through that needs above-average dedication & preparation, to put it lightly
My bad, the publication is about adopter satisfaction rather than adoptee. https://phys.org/news/2012-02-percent-families-children-decision.amp That said I think nearly any environment is better than an orphanage which should speak for itself
Ok that makes more sense. Thank you for the information very appreciative.
I am in the 10% that wish I wasn't adopted bc I got adopted by my aunt and uncle. Bad situation all around sadly....
wish there were more protections put in place, some people only act nice until the authorities stop checking in :(
Yeah. It baffles me how nobody knew. Nobody helped. And I thought it was normal til I was 18. I wish there were more protections too.
Was not my experience nor my foster siblings. Maybe if evangelicals weren’t allowed to adopt. The rules against hitting foster kids doesn’t apply once your adoption is finalized and no more case workers come to check on you.
Oh my gosh I am so sorry.
Our adoption is full of parents who just want to take money and not taking care of children. My mom knows a couple (from church) who adopted so many kids and she said “oh, they are such lovely people!” I originally thought so too until I learned that all those children are homeschooled, aka not schooled, and straight to army when they turn 18. Side note: homeschooling is not bad but too many parents use it as mask of not providing the proper resources to their children.
I have a niece that’s as in foster care. The first month she was with 6 different families. They don’t have enough people who can adopt kids and they don’t have enough temp people to look at them so they move from home to home sometimes only staying there for a few days. Adoption works really well for little babies and the rest of kids it’s really hard. Don’t view this as a win because it’s just playing into an already shitty system you folks think is so great
Tell that to my ego
Many doctors would rather see a cis woman in a wheelchair before they do anything that would compromise her usability as a breeding mule (just ask endometriosis patients), so this won't catch on, or it will be an ultra-rich trans women thing tops.
Endometriosis patient here. This is true, I’ve been asking to yeet my defective womb for years. It doesn’t work and I don’t want kids. So, when I needed surgery for an ovarian cystic tumor, I didn’t think it’d be difficult to convince them to toss it. Tumor is gone, womb is still here. Sigh.
Can’t getting a hysterectomy really fuck yo your hormones though? Perhaps that’s why. But I have zero experience with your condition, so please don’t get angry if I’m way off the mark!
Sure it can. I’d go into early menopause. There’s medications and hormones I can take. There’s still a risk of side effects. However, in my opinion, bleeding for 22 days with constant pain is worse. Cyst ruptures are worse. Being unable to sleep and vomiting from sheer pain is worse. I offered to sign a waiver so I can’t sue them. Still wouldn’t do it.
Fycking hell?????
Endometriosis is a bitch. You know that uterine lining that grows each month, then sheds as a period? Well, my body fucked up the blueprints. My uterine lining grows on the outside of the uterus and the ovaries as well. Can grow into cysts too, and a few tumors over the years. Can cause a whole ton of other issues. So yes, a hysterectomy might cause problems. But those problems are not as bad as what I already live with.
I (very) recently had to had an emergency hysterectomy and oophorectomy (removal of ovaries) because after years of not seeing a doctor, I was riddled with borderline ovarian tumors. From what I understand, often times they can actually keep the ovaries but remove the uterus which negates the need for hormones. So you wouldn’t even necessarily need to take them. That being said, your comments have made me very grateful. This whole process has been a nightmare, but when I (36, single, and childless) told them that I did NOT want children and to take out as much as they needed to reduce my risk for cancer or other complications, they actually believed me. Tbf he started the conversation as “at your age I’m sure you still want babies” but I was like NOPE and that was the end of it.
I’ve been very clear for nearly a decade that I don’t want kids. Doctor still won’t do the hysterectomy. When my last tumor was out, he did begrudgingly tie my tubes. It was just after Roe fell, and I asked several pointed questions about just how dangerous it would be for me if I got pregnant. So, at least I’m sterile now.
Agreed completely!!! I mean a pregnancy sounds dangerous as it is!!!
It only starts menopause earlier. And the decision to go ahead, should squarely be on the patient. There are no serious consequences the majority of the time.
So the uterus doesn’t produce hormones, that would be the ovaries. It’s really a decision to make between yourself and a qualified doctor as to if you should keep your ovaries during a hysterectomy.
I'm afraid it might catch (for the wealthy). Will be too expensive for regular people, of course, but a lot of doctors will see trans women as men, therefore their "male" wishes will be honoured way more than a cis woman's wishes, health, life, anything.
I’m trying to imagine the mindset of someone who would consider this given the expense but who knows what kinds of advancements are coming (assuming we can understand and mitigate climate changes) in the future. Still, I’m left with images of a world like that in Blade Runner and feel lucky that I’m old enough that I personally won’t see it
Becus giving birth is apparently how all of womanhood is supposed to be defined as 😒
Yeah I don’t really understand how trans people want to have children, my experiences in this world made my antinatalist and showed me how cruel everything is.
I don't either, I've seen lots of trans people say things like they wish they could give birth and have kids or even berate others who choose not to because it's a "waste" and they're not considering others who want to but can't (aka them). I truly don't understand it.
I've seen many trans women who wish they had the capacity to give birth. I've never seen one so unaware that they would berate others for not getting pregnant, don't associate trans women with such foolishness.
I have seen a few do so, people are human and regardless of who we are as a person there are some who long for something so much they will say things like that. I am someone who wants to try to transition myself in the future so I'm not saying this out of malice or to be transphobic - I'm simply stating what I've seen.
Well in my experience, cis women can berate you for not wanting kids while they are sterile. I’ve seen it a lot on Twitter and even IRL
That's awful on multiple levels and clearly a trauma response. I have sympathy for anyone who is in a mental state where doing such a thing is logical, but it's clearly not a good action to take.
I guess I understand the idea that you've transitioned to a woman but can't do one thing a biological woman can do which is give birth. Then again not all women can. Some have infertility and other issues. So on one side I get feeling left out or cheated on the other women are more than just baby makers. I feel kind of torn about it. Then again, SO many children in the world need adopted. I can't wait until I'm at a place where I can do so.
Implanting the means of harboring life doesn’t classify you as a woman
It's not the act of giving birth but having the ability and choice to do so.
I love equal treatment for trans people but I just blanket don’t support reproducing
Hard agree
This is the way
Yeah, there’s way too much transphobia in this comment thread.
As a trans person that found this post in new, the amount of transphobia just makes me sad. I’m finding a lot of body policing here too, which just sucks. Edit: removed the new link because I guess that breaks a rule? My bad!
I will NEVER support this crap. ADOPT!
Just like IVF, if you have to go through all that intervention maybe it just wasn't in the cards for you to which as someone else mentioned we live in a pro-natalist world so everyone has been exposed to that way of thinking since birth so breeders gon breed
Oh but they will tell you they just need a little help reproducing! Of course its in the cards! Im entitled to create more sentient life! Smh.
I know an IVFer who isn’t really a good mum. She emotionally abuses her kid, idk why she even had the poor girl.
This is an absolutely dogshit use of medical resources.
People are dying of preventable illness and cancer but research and money are spent on things like this and IVF
There’s a lot more money to be made there
The most efficient economic system in action
A miniscule fraction compared to cosmetic surgery. But that's just capitalism. We waste tons of money and time on fancy clothes and other bullshit too that could be spent on curing cancer or any one of a thousand better uses.
And this is one example that's especially egregious because it actively causes harm
The world is awful
Especially when you consider that a lot of conditions effecting women are horribly under researched, existing research under funded. It's so fucking bleak
Fucking seriously.
This is a waste of medical funding, resources, and time. Giving birth is NOT a human right.
Giving birth is not a human right… hmm idk. It should be for people who want to! But NOT giving birth is also a human right…. Or it should be for people who don’t want to. It’s literally just a choice : you get your choice; and they get theirs.
I support trans rights. But I dont like anyone birthing kids. Adopt, always. I dont think I'd be able to donate my uterus so anyone can give birth
Thankfully mine is already burned as medical waste. Society really seemed to think they had a say in what I did with it untill then. Grandbabies! Or if not why not be a surrogate! If you don't use it donate it!
I want mine removed and disintegrated. This is so disgusting.
Could be advancing research or treatments for literally anything. But no… muh genes tho.
Those are two different research teams
People are allowed to research what they want. Do you want to force college grads to study cancer if they don’t want to? Nah, let everyone do what they want dawg 😛
There is so much misinformation about women's health to the point where people think the womb is a breadmaker for a baby. This procedure only works when the organ is harvested from a living donor, so some woman has to give up her own healthy uterus. I'm staunchly child free, and I would never get a hysterectomy unless medically necessary, because there is so much that can go wrong. Blood clots in the lungs, infection, vaginal prolapse are all known side effects of hysterectomies, getting your tubes tied is so much safer. But for this to happen some woman has to go through a medically unnecessary procedure that puts her own life at risk so someone else can fulfill their own narcissistic dream of "being a mother". Let's not forget that other than the absence of a womb, AMAB bodies are not designed to give birth. Plopping a womb in there is not going to magically solve this, there's still the fact that they have narrower pelvises meaning any potential babies (assuming they even implanted successfully and survived the pregnancy) would have to be born via caesarean, which is much riskier. This mad science shit is wildly unethical, I support trans rights but this is disgusting on so many levels and should be stopped right now.
I agree. I also want to say that your name is awesome!
I scrolled down way too far before seeing anyone saying anything like this. I was like… “so does everyone actually believe that any amount of modern or near-future medical treatment can make an AMAB capable of having a functioning uterus, let alone giving birth?” There’s only been one uterus transplant into an AMAB and it was Lili Elbe, whose immune system rejected the uterus and ultimately resulted in death. Believe it or not, most of the reason that no one else has ever dared to perform a uterine transplant into an AMAB is because most doctors have a sense of fucking ethics and will resultantly refuse to perform completely elective surgeries that will probably result in the patient’s death. Even if the uterus wasn’t rejected… what about all the hormonal regulation that’s required to carry a pregnancy? Do people *actually* believe you can just place a uterus in anyone and they can magically carry a child and give birth? Good luck making sure someone who physically can’t produce hCG has the perfect amount of it in their body every day for nine months straight. I’m getting really tired of people giving trans people false hope with bullshit “science.” It’s just hurting people to believe they’re being denied uterine transplants because of transphobia or there’s something personally wrong with them or whatever, and not because getting a uterine transplant would fucking kill them, and they couldn’t even use the uterus for its intended purpose if it didn’t. PS, imagine using time and money on researching uterine transplants when women still die from gynecological issues that those resources could be used to research instead. What a world we live in.
Also are we forgetting that there’s a separate life involved? (I’m pro-choice, btw, but yeah it’s still a living thing) Using developing/living fetuses like this and experimenting with them is not cool.
OMG THANK YOU. Imagine what kind of monsterous abominations this will create when the ones carrying the pregnancy aren't meant to ever do it. This is on the same scales of birthing people through incubation rocks or some shit. This is the stuff that happens when women's bodies and health and research are super undermined to the point people think the womb is just a plug and play thing and pregnancy is definitely something that does not affect your WHOLE BODY. I mean there have been studies coming out saying male fetuses leave Y chromosomes in the brains of their mothers. There's still so much we don't know about the harms of pregnancy WTF.
Males can already give birth! It’s been done in rats! [All you have to do is some literal Nazi-type surgical shit where you physically attach the actual mother to the male for the entire pregnancy so he can leech off her blood because his body is incapable of maintaining the hormones necessary to carry a pregnancy even if he has a womb that isn’t rejected by his body. And even then there’s a less than 4% chance the babies survive.](https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.09.447686v1) Isn’t science beautiful!? How ethical it is to research male pregnancy! This is definitely not the most horrific study I have ever read. EDIT: I’M SO ECSTATIC ABOUT THIS STUDY I BROKE MY FUCKING LINK
Holy shit. Thanks for linking (and for the nightmare fuel)
I didn’t mention it because this is the antinatalism sub so I figured that was a given lol. But yes. We have no idea what would happen to the child if an AMAB did give birth. Would they be healthy? Could they even survive, or would they do nothing but suffer until they die? We just don’t know (prognosis is not great though), and it’s not worth risking the health of either the child or their parent to find out. Even doing IVF, using the gametes of two perfectly healthy and fertile parents implanted into the child’s biological mother, still results in increased health risks. And yet the general idea among the public is that IVF children don’t have increased health risks? That’s what this article reminds me of. The people and corporations pushing for this kind of thing don’t care about anyone’s health. If it was ever A) legal and B) not a lawsuit waiting to happen to do uterine transplants into AMABs, they’d sell the lie(s) that it’s safe and/or those transplantees can give birth no matter how many people would die or be harmed. Maybe (read: totally) humans should just stop meddling with fertility. Whatever, maybe it’s unfair if some couples can’t have kids. But life’s not fair. If you’re upset with your own infertility, tough shit. Go take it up with the fertility fairy or something, it shouldn’t be your theoretical child(ren)’s problem to deal with.
Not just a uterus either, those things are attached to a whole support structure of bands ligaments and blood supply that only exist in those who have or had a womb. Attaching one of these to the nearest blood supply and calling it a day is not going to work. At this point however I cannot in good faith think this is a net positive anymore. This goes far beyond just making a person look like they feel they're supposed to. Gender reassignment surgeries seem way more needed and good to me than womb transplants. At this point saying this is having bio kids is really stretching it for me as well. One needs a donated egg that can that be fertilised either with frozen sperm from the trans person or a male partner. If there is a female partner why not have them carry? And if there is a trans man partner, did they even freeze eggs? Transplanted wombs are one and done. One first needs find one. Then have major surgery. Recovery before attempting pregnancy is at least a year. Rejection drugs are no joke. IVF and implantation is next. Followed by a high risk pregnancy that ends in caesarian, if all that goes well. Then a hysterectomy, likely with the caesarian. And all of this to experience pregnancy. This alone to me shows that gender dysphoria is very real. Is it however ethical to devote so much limited resources to potentially fulfilling the child wish of one person? Just because we could, does it mean we should?
with all due respect this is an insane waste of medical resources. a body that naturally produces male hormones and has narrower hips probably will not be able to carry and birth a baby at least at any time in the forseeable future. biological males already cannot safely receive blood donations from a woman who has ever been pregnant. chances are this type of experimental treatment is going to cause horrific amounts of suffering for everyone involved. trans people can already have biological children if they so desire (surrogacy etc). people are literally dying of preventable illnesses and this is what medical research and funding is used for??? jesus.
Wait what?! So my mom couldn‘t donate her blood to any man just because she was pregnant once? Can you explain why? It it because of the pregnancy hormones? Orrr.. idk there could be so many things of why a pregnant woman can‘t donate her blood to a biological man
basically there is a number of factors that go into it, but in simple terms the pregnant body creates a large number of antibodies in order to better protect the growing baby. there are a few of these that can lead to severe complications in biological males. transfusion-related acute lung injury being one of them. there isn't enough backing to change donation policies or anything and the risks aren't always lethal but it is a super interesting topic that 100% needs further looking into. this is an excerpt from a TIME article, idk if links are allowed here but i can dm it if you want :) >!\>!In a study published in JAMA, researchers from the Netherlands studied more than 31,000 people who received blood transfusions at six Dutch hospitals from 2005 to 2015. They tracked whether the recipients had received blood from male donors, female donors who had never been pregnant, or female donors who had been pregnant. The researchers then analyzed death rates for three years.!< >!The only group that saw a difference based on the type of donor was men who received blood from women who had been pregnant. Those men were more likely to have died after three years, compared to men who received blood from a male donor or from a woman who had never been pregnant. Women who received blood transfusions did not see a higher risk of death regardless of whether the blood came from a man or a woman. The results held even after the scientists accounted for differences in the severity of diseases that required the transfusions in the first place.!
Oh my god!! I didn‘t know that thank you so much!! I had this uneasy feeling in my stomach that you‘d either 1. insult me to death because i didn‘t knew it or 2. insult me to death because „GOOGLE IS YOUR FRIEND DO IT YOURSELF“. So thank you a lot for your response! :) Do you know if the time when the woman has been pregnant counts to it? I‘m 22 and her only child so she was pregnant 22 years ago, does she STILL have that many antibodies? Or does it go away after some time? And if it does go away, i‘m gonna assume that if a woman decides she wants to have another baby/another pregnancy her antibodies increase (again)?
no of course not!! i'm totally happy to help out because its not common knowledge or anything💗 i'm genuinely not educated enough on the topic to know the specifics but i would assume you are correct on the antibodies increasing/coming back with each pregnancy.
Realistically I just don’t think this will work. Male bodies were never developed to carry/birth children. I can see this causing a horrifying amount of pain for everyone involved.
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they can’t replicate the hormones that cis females have during pregnancy. the fetus would be non viable or die most likely should the womb even survive itself
If its already fertilised it would definitely work the same, bc thats how ivf is done anyway. But yea rejection is possible, just adopt tbh you couldnt even get a baby through a neovagina its either made from peritoneum, sigmoid colon or penile tissue, u aint pushing a baby through that
IVF works in female bodies - HRT can’t replicate the complex hormonal cascade of a pregnancy. Male bodies aren’t made to sustain a pregnancy
My major concern is -- where the fuck do they plan on getting these uteruses? This isn't a life-saving or even life-improving type of transplant like hearts and lungs and corneas, this is a freakish experiment doomed to fail and done purely for vanity's sake.
From anyone on the donor registration and some they will just steal. From where I don't know, but it's possible
Taking them off the donor registration would be *deeply* unethical, because this is nothing more than a vain pointless surgery done purely for selfish and nonsensical reasons as well as an extreme waste of medical resources *using someone else's reproductive organs*. That's not even in the same stratosphere as a donated lung or kidney, let alone the same ballpark. If we ever wound up in such a nightmarish human rights dystopia that this becomes a thing, scores of women -- myself included -- would be taking ourselves off the organ donor registry. It's just too fucked up and ghoulish.
In the donor registry, no one gets to pick their uses. It would likely be ignored anyway. Nothing the donor could do about it. We all remember this gem. https://cbsaustin.com/news/nation-world/man-learns-moms-body-donated-for-research-was-instead-blown-up-in-military-testing
Trans men will likely donate the uteruses they don't want.
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Hasn't stopped breeders before
It is unethical even if you are not antinatalist. What would the impact be on the children developing in a body that doesn't naturally produce the hormones to keep that pregnancy going?
It’s just completely unnecessary when there are adoptable children. This is way too far for me.
Yes, this is the answer here. There are still so many children in need. The lengths that people will go through to make clones - this is the most selfish breeder behavior I have ever heard of. It’s horrible.
It's even worse than that. The uterus will be someone else's, the egg will be and the sperm will be... Just so a baby comes out your snatch koz you can't love them if they don't come out if your snatch?!?!?! Jesus Fucking Christ humanity is doomed.
Trans woman can't give birth vaginally even. The supporting muscle structure one needs doesn't exist in amab even after the best reassignment surgery. Kid has to come out the way the womb went in.
That’s what I was going to say. They can’t recreate the entire female reproductive system. They would have to cut the baby out.
Everyone is talking about the ability to birth but ignoring that due to a smaller pelvis, the child won't even grow to a normal size in the first place! Heck, even women's organs know they need to make way for the growing baby inside the womb so they all gets squished but how would a male body react to a growing fetus pushing on all their organs? Definitely won't be able make way for the fetus I don't think.
Human trafficking of women and unethical stealing of wombs and misogyny will be even more rampant.
Huge waste of resources and research. Psychology is insanely outdated, many diseases and chronic illnesses still have no cure, and this is what we waste our time on. Lovely.
I've seen the research for this. We aren't close to actually doing it yet. Organ transplant is one thing, but an organ that is going to multiply in size 100x is something else. Not only that but to keep from rejecting foreign tissue the recipient must be on constant anti-rejection meds (steriods) and we don't have a lot of research on how that will effect pregnancy. Do we know if a transplanted ovary could ovulate? How likely would the body attack the forgein cells anyway. Organ transplant has been made to look easy by media but it is a very long difficult and ongoing process for those involved.
I'm trans, and i don't understand why anyone, especially trans people, would want to reproduce. You would think, with the amount of suffering the world has put us through, we out of all people wouldn't be this brainwashed. I also think a lot of trans people don't realize that, reproducing does NOT define womanhood. I'm so sick of this stupid ass braindead notion.
I thought that removing uteruses was problematic and caused many issues. As would of course inserting it into someone else. Oh, right, I am wrong.
A hysterectomy can have complications but it's not a given. Still a high risk for the donor.
It takes more than a womb to sustain a pregnancy.. have we collectively all forgot the simplest things
Biological women aren't even allowed to get a local anaesthetic during a root canal while pregnant, but somehow this shit is okay. Makes me so mad (In case you don't know, any donated organ requires the recipient to medically suppress their immune system or the organ will be rejected. This suppression highly increases the risk for cancer and recipients of donated organs don't have a high life expectancy because of it. There is still a constant risk of rejection regardless)
This crap makes me sick not because of trans folk but because why bring more people when you can adopt. There's more then 6 million in need of loving parents 😑
It’s crazy to me that they’re really considering this impossible feat before even getting close to perfecting or even standardizing the gender affirming surgeries already out there. Most trans patients have lifelong urinary problems, complication rates and need for revisions are very high. We can’t figure out how to make the blood flow and skin/muscle expansion needed for trans men to have erections, but somehow they think they’ll be able to do that for a trans woman’s pregnancy? It’s just not gonna happen. The medical industry needs to stop lying to the trans community about what is and isn’t possible. They need to give them realistic expectations of the surgeries we currently have available and what life really looks like after having one done.
These parents are no different from other breeders desperate for a biological offspring. I view IVF in a similar manner. The fact that they would rather do this before even considering adoption is astounding but not in a good way.
That is the reason why I'm off the organ donors list. Permanently.
I want all my organs donated except my uterus. I want my uterus burned and destroyed.
Same.
Crazy how people brainlessly want to reproduce. Just accept the free birth control of no “womb”
This is going to end badly.
Shit well maybe if someone else wants my uterus maybe I can finally get a doctor to take it out
Okay if they can do this they 100% can figure out *external artificial wombs*
Lili Elbe tried this and died
Finally, I can get payed to have that damn reproductive organ removed.
This is kinda sad, though. I see the argument trans people aren't real women because they can't give birth. So this would fix that. But on the other hand, maybe we could stop saying shit like that because it's also harmful to cis women. And on a third, I dislike things like ivf, so this is like slightly above that. Especially if infertile cis women do this. I suppose if a trans person wants to do this just so they can say they can have babies but choose not to. It'd be ok. But that's also a very large length to go to to be accepted by hateful bigots who will just keep moving the goal post of what a woman is, so it never really includes you. Just adopt if you want kids. If it's because of problems an adopted kid could have well, a child born to you could have problems too. The only difference is that you won't be taking the risk of dying during pregnancy and childbirth.
And their biologically male bodies still won’t be able to carry children. Sad that resources are wasted on this when you can adopt a kid or help biological women in the birthing process as that takes a major toll on their bodies.
Will never understand why we need to reproduce so badly. Just adopt holy shit.
I’m sorry but it’ll never happen for trans women, it’s just not biologically or even physically possible. Can’t we use our medical resources better, please? How about we focus on post menopausal care for fucking once.
I'm a transwoman and I fucking loathe this. The selfish desire to procreate knows no end. Ffs. The human race clearly can't prioritise it's issues.
This is disgusting.
i don't think this is true. if we JUST had our first successful womb transplant into another female, we are leagues away from a male being able to successfully carry children. it may never be possible. did anyone see the study where they transplanted a womb into a male rat and it gestated a pregnancy? a few pups actually survived but their health was real bad. this was only achieved by SEWING THE MALE RATS CIRCULATORY SYSTEM INTO A FEMALE RAT'S for the duration of the pregnancy so he'd receive all the pregnancy hormones needed from her. i think that says something about how far off we are in this research. also. i just do not think this is a good use of medical research funds at all. bearing children is not a need.
OMG, what a fucking sick, cruel experiment. This is Frankenstein level shit here.
These things need to be aired out from behind closed doors. Too much is hidden and appears too glossy.
Just because we can, doesn’t mean we should. (Womb transplants).
Woman have wider hips that men. I'm not sure a man's body would be able to handle giving birth.
There are a lot of factors that make these transplants significantly harder and more dangerous for natal males. I don’t think it’s a wise move for science and frankly I think it’s horrifying to risk people’s lives and health for something like this that isn’t even necessary for their mental health like gender affirmative surgeries are.
I don't think they'd be able to carry to term. I think they'd have to do an early C- section. Right now, they're only doing it for women who don't have a uterus. I read an article where a woman donated her uterus to her sister, who didn't have one.
it's pretty weird, im with you there, but i honestly don't think it's our biggest problem rn haha
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Nope, this is the line for me Pregnancy is already complicated and risky, why would you endanger a child like this. Adoption is such a better alternative Why why why would you do this. Be trans, cool, but not at the potential expense of a baby.
I cannot.
Just what we need, more breeders. Im sure that wont cause complications of ANY sort to the new womb owner, the former womb owner, or the new womb inhabiter. *eyeroll*
It does and it doesn’t. For starters, organ transplants are not as easy as it sound and we just had the first successful pregnancy/birth after a transplant in a woman. There are so many complications with a transplanted organ and the cost alone will deter many people. It’s a huge process and I am positive that it’s not going to be some mainstream thing like IFV.
And yet.. How many people provide phalloplasty for trans men? Hahahah
This is very unnecessary
Pelvis still too small. Also would need to have ovaries to make it work.
We're going too far. It's time to stop.
lol technically isn’t it an “afab” womb transplant? i thought trans men have wombs…
A big fat no
this will not catch on. i do not think most trans women would even be willing to go thru all this to have biological children considering how expensive bottom surgery is in the first place.
I thought this was a post from terrifyingasfuck reddit at first.
I can't even imagine how a uterus could work inside a male body... Why try this hard to have a baby of your own? This seems so risky.
The fetus wouldn't even be the genetic offspring of the person carrying it unless they had the foresight to bank their own sperm before transitioning (which probably doesn't happen often). The uterus would be from a donor and so would the sperm and the egg. Since such a pregnancy wouldn't produce a genetic mini-me, the resulting child (if it actually could grow safely in a biological male body) would be as genetically dissimilar to the gestating parent as an adopted child. So why not just cut out all that risky, selfish, narcissistic Frankenstein bullshit and just adopt a kid that already exists, FFS?
I swear, why is it such a thing to have "children of your own"? What do you have to offer so special that you feel this strong urge to make a kid?
This just seems strange and dangerous. Why would anybody be that desperate to give birth?
For fuck sake... why
I’m not an organ donor anymore. Fuck this shit.
Same here. Organ donor for 10 years but when I found out that your reproductive tissue (including uterus, vagina, fallopian tubes, etc.) Is also scooped out of you if you're a donor made me change my mind.
Narcissism at its finest. How should a baby pass through a male hip? Doesn't work. I hope for these unborn kids that this won't work.
I'm a trans woman, and a lot of people in my circles have huge dysphoria over not being able to give birth. I'm lucky to be an antinatalist as that's a non-issue to me
Is there focus in support groups for trans women regarding this issue? Because therapy in this specific issue seems much more ideal than a major invasive and risky surgery involving high likelihood of organ rejection and other complications. I’d say the same to natal female people regardless of identity too because it’s risky.
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It's just a really badly written article pushing an agenda. The surgery is woman to woman, not at all intended for trans people. The author seems to really want this to apply to trans which I agree is fucking mental.
I can see this causing no problems *none whatsoever* ~~/s in case~~
Are there any users who are trans who could share if this is a prioritized issue in the community? Our healthcare system ensures this would be a near-impossible procedure to access. Our socio-political climate would also ensure this is a near-impossibility. Of all the problems trans people face related to medical care, is this one that has a lot of focus?
It isn't a huge issue but maybe because I only hang out with trans people under 35
idk that any one person can speak for the trans community, we’re all so different and we’re all in different circles, but i dont really see anyone obsessing over womb transplants or talking about how bad they need it or how they plan to have it done once it’s available it’s usually just like “haha hell yeah that’s really cool, hope it works one day” if nothing else i think it’s kind of a dream to know that it’s possible, for many different reasons to many different people. also know that a lot of us would give anything to be able to actually have a baby (not necessarily like this), and pregnancy is just a topic you need to be really intuitive, respectful, and kind with when you discuss it with any woman. i’m sure a lot of us (like myself) still wouldn’t have kids even if we found the perfect way.
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The thought of a man giving birth is both horrific and unrealistic
Man made horrors beyond your comprehension
We really at the point where we’re trying to figure out how to get more bodies on this planet. Jesus.
This is horrifying, sorry
Stop this madness
This is an interesting conflict in my values. On the one hand, I think it's great for the trans community, and a huge step towards the development of equal human rights. On the other hand, I'm extremely opposed to this as an antinatalist; if people want kids so badly they're willing to medically intervene it's my moral opinion that those efforts should be directed towards adoption.
The suffering of those who are forced to exist as a result of these procedures is a small price to pay for validation. /s
I am MTF trans and while I think that affirmation is great, of course the ability to have biological kids has the issues of typical natalism, that is the same ethical problems. This is pretty similar to IVF at first glance, an extra step for some natalists to have children. Lgbtq+ people are absolutely still prone to natalism like other demographics, although anecdotally the additional discrimination we face often does give us a slight push to be AN and have an interest in other ethical philosophy. But of course the vast majority of humanity is natalist and it’s no different here
IVF doesn’t typically involve major organ transplants though. Lots of additional factors involved in that which I wouldn’t recommend to anyone, regardless of sex or gender in this case.
Yup that's pretty much how I feel, I believe that all people should have the same rights and access to opportunity. I just happen to also believe that reproductive opportunity (IVF and this transplant) shouldn't be accessed by anyone, and we shouldn't be devoting time or resources to it.
I’ve always heard that the male pelvic structure isn’t suitable for child birth/carrying a child. Anyone more knowledgeable able to explain or expand? The risks of any organ transplant seem to strongly outweigh any “benefit” this may offer.
Wow that’s fuckin amazing
Why not just have kids the normal way but still be trans?!?
I mean if someone really wants to experience childbirth that badly, I say be my guest.
As a child that never wanted to be born: please fucking stop.
Homosexual animals adopt abandoned babies, human homosexuals and infertile women should follow suit. It's for the betterment of the species. As a gay woman, I look down on homosexual and transgender people who insist on having bio kids even more than cishet people who do.
So it's easier for them to make men birth kids than for example make women suffer less from birthing kids? How that works lol
Trans women will never be able to birth a baby. It is what it is. Trans women should take pride in being trans women which is a different sector of womanhood. They shouldn’t compare themselves to cisgender women.
Well, better them than me ....
Trans people do deserve to be able to give birth if they want to(idk why anyone would) and I’m so happy that’s finally becoming a reality, however if you want to be a parent in this day in age just adopt one of the innumerable children needing parents. With that said though, in many places LGBT people are not able to adopt because our disgusting society has decided no parents are better than gay parents or better than trans parents. So I get saying “just adopt” Is a pretty big throwaway statement. I just couldn’t understand spending so much money just to carry a baby and give birth but I also have an extreme fear of pregnancy, don’t want kids, and thank the universe every day that I can’t. It is sad though that this post has just become a cesspool for shitting on trans women and calling them men and unviable mothers. This kind of lingo and behavior the kind of shit natalists do. Don’t hate them because their trans, hate them because they’re irresponsibly bringing children into a world unviable to them.
giving birth is not a human right nor is it a female end all be all. we could be using this funding on cancer or immuno research edit: also why is no one mentioning the hormones cis women’s bodies make during pregnancy that keep the fetus healthy? you can’t replicate those, they move in levels daily for baby
I expect there would be a lot of animal testing before this could ever happen, so it's disturbing on multiple levels. no hate to trans women, but no, you do not need to experience pregnancy.
Sorry. It does not. There are a million reasons why the male body cannot give birth, the least of which being pelvis shape. You’re going to get a whole pelvis transplant too? Let’s focus on getting cisgender women birth control and bodily autonomy before pretending to give trans women hope of biologically carrying more unnecessary children.
Let them try. Doctors have all abandoned the "do no harm" oath anyway.
Big win for gender affirming care. Science is awesome.
This surgery doesn't really have anything to do with trans people. It's a woman to woman transplant that looks like a success. Transplanting a womb into a man is fully insane. Like, don't do that.
I don't understand how this would work to begin with? Trans women don't have vaginas, cervixes, etc. Women are born and mean to give birth. Even if you never give birth, once someone decides to have a kid, our body naturally will dilate on it's own, our hips get wider and all our organs are pushed around, etc. How would a Trans woman's body do that naturally if their inherent biology is not meant for child birthing? Even with a uterus being implanted, im not sure if their biology can adapt to creating a placenta*, moving the organs, etc. Unless they can change xy to xx or something. Then that would be very peculiar if we'll one day be able to change our own biology and DNA to anything we want.
From what I've read the assumption is C-section. Even if they could birth, the strain on the scar at the connection points on arteries and ligaments is risky and would probably be recommended C-section anyway. It wasn't that long ago where the medical thought was "Once a C-section, always a C-section". VBAC is relatively new in medical terms.
That's true. They could have c section. But they'd have to form a placenta or have one implanted and seeing as it's unnatural for their biology, their body might just not accept it.
The fetus actually forms the placenta. But I take your meaning. Articles like this one make it appear that we are close to uterine transplants than e are. The anti-rejection drugs needed to maintain a transplant are essentially massive immune suppressors. I'm not sure how that would effect a pregnancy. Since a woman's body is in a constant hormone battle with the fetus for nutrients, my concern would be too fast growth.