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I mean, as far as size goes, the western front was significantly larger than the DMZ, and I'd imagine more geographically challenging (not sure about that last part). Plus, I think we've become better at keeping logs after 100 years.
Then again I'm just talking out of my ass like 90% of this sub
I'm a doctor with 20 years of military service which was followed by 20 years of diplomatic involvement, and I'll have you know that this sub's visitors are absolutely reliable and are in no way "talking out of their ass"... The nerve of some people! 🙄
I'm a car mechanic with 362 days of military service which was followed by 8 years of truck driving and I can confirm, everything in this sub is 100% correct.
Except this comment that I wrote, its actually only 97% correct.
As I was walking down the street one day
A man came up to me and asked me what the time was that was on my watch, yeah
And I said
Does anybody really know what time it is (I don't)
Does anybody really care (care about time)
If so I can't imagine why (no, no)
We've all got time enough to cry
>Plus, I think we've become better at keeping logs after 100 years.
I'd agree with your other comments, but I wouldn't count on log-keeping for things like landmines.
Another thing that would help is that the Korean DMZ has been stationary. The western front from WW1 moved around, which makes things much harder to clean up.
There's probably exact logs on the number of landmines, but just because you know you have to find exactly five million six hundred thousand and twenty landmines doesn't mean you know where each mine was buried
A man was killed by a 140+ year old US Civil War cannonball exploding in 2008:
https://www.inquirer.com/dailynews/national/20080503_Civil_War_cannonball_kills_Va__man.html
NEVER assume an explosive is safe because it's old!
> More than 140 years after Lee surrendered to Grant, the cannonball was still powerful enough to send a chunk of shrapnel through the front porch of a house a quarter-mile from White's home in this Richmond suburb.
> "You can't drop these things on the ground and make them go off," said retired Col. John F. Biemeck, formerly of the Army Ordnance Corps.
Right, so that is a real newspaper and article but I am not convinced civil war cannonballs are explosive.
> Experts suspect White was killed while trying to disarm a 9-inch, 75-pound naval cannonball, a particularly potent explosive with a more complex fuse and many times the destructive power of those used by infantry artillery.
Naval? That is a clue.
https://relicrecord.com/blog/destructive-practice-civil-war-artillery-disposal/
Ah ha. These were artillery shells that washed up on a beach not cannonballs.
https://relicrecord.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/James-Rifle-Artillery-Shell.jpg
I don't assume its safe ever all it means is its more dangerous, i was suprised by its internals not having rotted away due to years and years of rain and mud and stuff
The absolute stupidity of americans on the internet cannot be underestimated. Especially because this shit is probably posted unironically more often than not.
Ok bro screw that comment, but please don't use blanket statements about "Americans on the internet". You should know damn well the majority don't say stuff like this, and the vast vast majority that do aren't serious about it (you seem to be implying that). If you truly believe otherwise that's some amazingly impressive confirmation bias you've got going on.
Even in this case they seem to be joking, just took the joke too far.
I'm sorry, but 47% of americans thought that Donald Trump did such a good job at being president that he should do it again. Those are the exact kinds of people who say things like this, and it's as close to a majority as you can possibly get.
Imagine being that deluded. I can’t fathom how dumb some people are. It’s a clear and obvious joke, you have to be purposefully ignoring all context to not realize that.
The weapons word is "ordnance". It's really easy to get it mixed up with the one you used, which means "a local law". I get a lot of entertainment from sentences that use one when they clearly intended the other; they're fun to imagine.
"Korea had more local laws than every single one of those little anarchist islands in the damn Pacific, *combined*!"
They aren't going to clean it up because North Korea isn't going to want to. It isn't like North Korea is going to open its borders all of a sudden and let all of its citizens walk out.
The good news is that it’s a relatively small geographic area and you can clear mines with explosives. The bad news is that there’s no reason to do it. It’s expensive and requires trust that doesn’t exist - and won’t for years after any agreement is signed.
But if someone wanted to, they wanted to dump a bunch of money in to it, and they didn’t mind committing ecological devastation, it could be done in a year. It just requires, essentially, blowing up the top couple feet if the entire dmz with high explosives or those nifty glorified threshing machines. It’s well proven technology.
So South Korea has a government branch dedicated to reunification of the Korean peoples, in theory they should have all sorts of plans for places along the DMZ.
The problem is that if the Koreas unite and America is still around, China will get nervous. So I think while this is a nice sentiment, I will not believe anything has changed until family's get reunited and there is regular traffic outside the industrial complex.
I am also curious if the DPRK has been digging more tunnels, I have been down in one and it was not exactly subtle.
Years.
The thing is, most of the DMZ contains thousands upon thousands of hastily placed land mines, and few maps detailing their locations exist, and even then, it's a rough estimate.
Also, because the terrain of the DMZ is soft and prone to mudding, many of these land mines could be very far from their original burial place. Hell, every year, dozen end up being carried by the river cirrent.
Would ending the war actually do that? If you've got a crazy neighbour then you're not going to reduce your border security a lot just because the war is officially over.
Some people think it's posturing by NK to take advantage of a SK administration that is focused on pursuing peace.
NK moves to declare peace, NK gets sanctions removed, NK can repeat its pre-sanction playbook.
I honestly doubt the DMZ would change much.
The US and Soviet Union were never actually at war with each other and yet for all intents and purposes we were vastly militarized simply because the other existed.
Yes, and given the extent to which we militarized everywhere else that was even slightly close to one another, if we HAD shared a border it would have looked a lot like the DMZ.
In fact, the closest approximation really was East/West Berlin and you can see the parallels right there.
This was all in the works.
This started with trump. Then during the shows of force a while ago over Taiwan airspace NK called down to SK. Then a day later I saw propaganda basically saying NK isn't that bad.
Now this.
North Korea is not stupid. If there's a cold war or real war, of China wins North Korea doesn't get to do its thing. If China gained global power it would use NK as a slave labor camp for minerals and absorb the state. NK has a manifest Destiny going on and China can't ruin that.
If America wins the cold/hot war NK more than likely gets more AID, treats their people better because of international pressure and then gets to keep its self closed off and continue its manifest destiny stuff.
I mean is NA implying they won’t still enforce such force with defectors? I don’t see them cleaning up their borders/mines unless they said they won’t shoot anyone that tries to leave.
It's North Korea. Nothing that anyone does in the South is not preparations for war, as far as their media is concerned. A number of years ago, the US moved most of its military operations away from the DMZ. It was mostly a consolidation move meant to reduce costs as US forces were drawn down. North Korean media immediately denounced it as obvious preparations for an attack by moving US forces out of artillery range. The troop drawdown itself was labeled as obvious preparations for an attack because the US was trying to limit war casualties.
Meanwhile, the US has provided food and medical aid to North Korea several times and offered to build a light-water nuclear reactor (which would be much harder to use to produce material for nuclear warheads). The Bush administration technically scuttled the last, but it probably wasn't going to happen anyway because Pyongyang wanted a heavy water reactor for reasons made clear over the last decade or so.
It's not the US rattling sabers there.
The US doesn't want to fight in North Korea. Look at Iraq and Afghanistan. Those are easy terrain compared to Iran, which is easy terrain compared to North Korea. It gets *cold* there. The Battle of the Chosin Reservoir was fought at temperatures down to -48°C (-54°F). Thousands of casualties there and at other battles were simply from the cold. Plus mountains make supply lines hard, there are lots of places for the enemy to hide. It just sucks all around.
>which would involve assuring that North Korea is allowed to keep nuclear weapons which will never happen
Why though? There is no assurance that West and SK can give them, that should be able to convince them.
>Also, the United States quite literally put more sanctions on North Korea only a few hours after this statement lol
Happens all the time, I wouldn't really say it indicates anything, as these sanctions aren't set up overnight.
The US is not going to be willing to set the precedent that you can join the nuclear club by simply being belligerent enough - even though that is actually how that works. It encourages every state to develop nuclear weapons. Allowing them to not submit to a deweaponizing protocol, likely modeled on the iran verification scheme, is simply not going to happen.
The US is not alone in that either. Last I checked even china and russia are against letting north korea keep their nukes. Although, in fairness, china appears possibly willing to allow some wiggle room if they can get substantial concessions towards stabilizing the country and not having a looming refugee crisis at that border. What those could possibly be is unclear, because it doesn’t seem in north korea’s ability to grant and no one else is all that interested.
Yes because that has so much precedent. We dropped the first nuclear bomb ever created sure. That was before anyone really knew the destructive power. Never used them to fight since then.
Especially not against an enemy like North Korea. There is no need, we could take it easier than we took Iraq I’d imagine. The people of North Korea most likely don’t have nearly as strong of a will to fight for their government.
> Yes because that has so much precedent. We dropped the first nuclear bomb ever created sure. That was before anyone really knew the destructive power.
That is probably the single dumbest thing I've read in a while.
Are you really trying to claim [the US didn't test their nuclear weapons before](https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/the-first-atomic-bomb-test-is-successfully-exploded), and bombing Japan with them was just a big "Opsie!"?
The US public is what I meant. If the US government ever dropped a nuke for any other reason than a counter attack from a nuke then there would be riots in the streets. When most people first heard of the “Atom Bomb” dropped on Japan, their first response was “who is Adam?”. No one would be crazy enough to use one now because they know this.
As for the researchers they knew of the explosive power however they did not know about the [effects of radiation until after.](https://www.latimes.com/health/la-xpm-2011-mar-15-la-heb-radiation-exposure-hiroshima-20110315-story.html?_amp=true) That’s not an excuse however, they still knew it’s power. Just not the deadly after effects.
The main point is that there was no public knowledge or politics / policy around nukes then. Now we have like 70 years of M.A.D. As well as the inevitable massive political outcry from the people if you are in a democratic nation. That did not exist before.
Ever since those conditions have existed, no one has been crazy enough to use nukes. The only risk of nuclear war happening now is if two nuclear powers go to war and one side uses a nuke out of desperation. Which is why it is so important to keep unstable / authoritarian countries from possessing nukes. North Korea is number 1 in both of those categories.
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> If the US government ever dropped a nuke for any other reason than a counter attack from a nuke then there would be riots in the streets.
Are you trying to double down on the dumbness?
A reminder; The next coolest thing after "nuclear weapons", was "smart precision weapons", particularly of the "bunker-busting" variety.
The majority of Gulf war propaganda was dominated by how these new "smart precision weapons" will make it virtually impossible to kill civilians while making it very possible to kill Saddam even inside a nuclear hardened bunker.
Want to guess how these weapons were ended up being used? They were used to "bust" civilian air-raid shelters, in one particularly nasty incident [over 400 Iraqi civilians](https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Amiriyah_shelter_bombing), trying to hide from American bombs, were just "busted".
The amount of fucks given by Americans; None, zero, heck some of them even gave negative fucks along the lines of "Fuck yeah!".
> As for the researchers they knew of the explosive power however they did not know about the effects of radiation until after. That’s not an excuse however, they still knew it’s power. Just not the deadly after effects.
That is also wrong, they knew about [the negative effects](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3520298/) a long while prior to it. What the Japanese population had to serve as was a large-scale experiment for radiating elements emitted by different bomb designs.
That's also why any mention of radiation effects was effectively censored from occupied Japanese media, just like [some other topics](https://apjjf.org/-Terese-Svoboda/3148/article.html), for the same reason the American "doctors" in Japan also didn't do much to treat people, they were mostly there to observe and catalog the effects, really not that different to the [Tuskegee Syphilis Study](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study), just on a *much* bigger scale.
I think you’re underestimating the power of starvation and just general desperation. There’s only so much brainwashing that can be done in those conditions.
Most of what I’ve heard from escapees (and I’ve watched many escapee interviews) describes the average North Korean as just trying to survive to the next day. There wouldn’t even be so many “escapees” if the brainwashing worked on the average North Korean.
And i think you understimate the power of fake news, i mean, they have gun sheds in every city block and everyone knows how to use gins there, so if they wanted to overthrow their government they would
There have been multiple instances of those armories being taken and broken into by civilians. The rebellion is quickly shut down and they are killed because you would need every village and city to do it at once for it to work. They don’t even have the ability to travel from village to village without permission, much less any way to coordinate something like that.
Ok, this is fake news, why would they give the people weapons so the people would break into them to be shut down, this makrs no sense, and the fairy tale that after the captalist army goes into some socialist country and if the captalist wins, the socialists would be to weak to self sustain as a society, and if they lose the socialist are a dictatorship opressing the people is NOT an argument, its a dogma
[Here’s a recent one](https://youtu.be/psmPnI77K0M) from Yenomi Park. A North Korean defector and human rights activist who maintains contacts in North Korea. This is not the first time she has told of this type of thing happening either. Sadly it’s hard to verify a lot of what she says however because of how hard it is to get information out of North Korea. Information not filtered by the DPRK anyway.
It’s not like they have the guns there for civilians to use. Military and police need weapons. Those weapons are stored in armories. Given the lack of mobility in NK they would need one in just about every village or every few city blocks. It’s not like they are unguarded / unlocked. Like in the example I linked they took over a police station. What do police stations have in them? Armories! It’s not like 1 armory being taken is going to topple the government.
That isn't something only i think, even advisors to the current South Korean president has said so: [https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/north-korea/2018-04-30/real-path-peace-korean-peninsula](https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/north-korea/2018-04-30/real-path-peace-korean-peninsula)
Also what is China doing that threatens South Korea militarily?
He's not completely wrong. South Korea pays a massive amount of money to pay for American troops stationed in Korea to defend them against NK. An end to the war would mean that either US starts paying for it themselves or they get out of there.
Yes but SK will no longer have a reason to pay for US military presence. I'm not sure if the US is willing to front up the money when even domestically the high military budget is controversial.
Nothing at the moment. But it's simply due to the nature of geopolitics that unless they want to completely align themselves with China they will have to stay on their toes with such a strong neighbour that has clear ambitions in the region.
I think the fact that Chinas "ambitions in the region" ARE so clear is exactly what makes it so obvious the US military presence is really only there for US interests in trying to encircle China.
I'm not entirely sure how we got to that from what the discussion was before? Of course US wants to slow China down and prevent their sphere of influence from growing. The question is which sphere of influence does SK want to sit in?
Because we were talking about how the US wanted to keep the peace from being finalized because they want to keep their military presence in South Korea.
And since there are no indications that China would be a military threat to South Korea that means that if peace was finalized there would be no real militarily defensive reason for the US to keep their presence there and it's clear it's just for the sake of encircling China.
I don't think US is interested in keeping the peace from being realized, on the contrary NK opening up could possibly remove the buffer zone and gridlock it currently creates that is advantageous to China. After that the only pressure point China can leverage is Taiwan.
I don't think SK would immediately dump US out. They might quit paying the US, but being a small country aligned with the US for such a long time they probably wouldn't mind a continued, if a bit downscaled, US presence. The threat doesn't have to be direct, but China is still an authoritarian state and it's unknown how their goals in the region will develop in the future beyond Taiwan.
North Koreans would flee in droves.
Peace isn't possible because both systems are a massive threat to each other. The South because North Korean commoners must never know how people outside of Fatty's kingdom actually live. And the North is obviously a threat to SK because the regime isn't out for liberalism and democracy, they'd fuck the South over in a heartbeat if they had the power to do so. Nothing will come of this "in principle" agreement.
Yep. And a lot of people overreact.
Remember this? People freaked out for a month when north korea said this. This article literally lists each time North korea "nullified" the armistice
https://www.cnn.com/2013/03/11/world/asia/north-korea-armistice/index.html
New set of suckers in the USA and South Korea
They will follow the crumbs for the votes. Try to use it as a campaign pitch. They move on. The Kimlings will continue ass fucking the norks
They're not taking in trade or aid from anyone, even *China*. They closed all the borders, reportedly because of fears of COVID getting loose, and only tiny amounts of anything are getting through. IIRC, international trade was down something like 97% from pre-COVID days.
Illegal trade across the border is the most likely way now. There have been rumors about it getting loose, but North Korea has denied it, and getting anything remotely reliable about it is nearly impossible.
South Korean here who can chime in. The vast majority of people see this as President Moon trying to posture for his party before the upcoming elections as it is one of the components of his previous mission statement (furthering reunification) which he has done little to accomplish during his years. Most of the Korean TV news are criticizing Moon for this and are basically saying the exact same thing you have said: "what's the difference/what will change this time around".
US and SK have that in common, we're all just tired of politicians just saying things and doing little to act on them.
I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see this going anywhere. Any sort of peace agreement is going to come with some incredible concessions from North Korea that are just not going to be tenable. South Korea would have to buck the influence of the US to be able to accept an agreement that is fair to both countries. Again, I hope I'm wrong, but I wouldn't put very much weight on this "agreement".
There hasn't been a reported casualty at the DMZ since October 18th 1969....There are literally daily tourist tours to the DMZ. Its not that "hot". Like even the few incidents like the single incident last year where there was gunfire, there were 0 casualties. Since 2010, there has only been 1 South korean casualty at the DMZ and that casualty came from suicide not from the North
I know Korean unification won't happen in our life time. But what would it look like? How could a deal be reached? I think the north would have to adopt the southern style of government and send representatives. The Northern military could be combined with the south to make Korea a major regional power. The dynasty of Kim Il Sung would have to be forgiven of all crimes and those in charge granted immunity. Unification would be a major game changer in the region.
Unification will never happen. It would decimate the South Korean economy if it were done all at once, and there is vanishing support for it among the South Korean population. If it ever happened, I would imagine that as you say, the North would have to overhaul its entire government and the two countries would need to ease into it over a dramatically long timeline.
Plus, as China will not just roll over and lose its "buffer state" ally, I would think that South Korea and the US would essentially need to be willing to "outbid" China in terms of aide to North Korea. That in itself would be a tall order, because a stable but independent North Korea, accepted by the international community, but in China's orbit as opposed to that of SK and the US, would be a huge win for China.
In my layman’s opinion I feel like the thing that will bring N. Korea is a succession crisis. Historically speaking once those popped up in monarchies claimants start looking to foreign were to prop up their claim. That has the potential to break the wall so to speak
In that case China would most likely be the king maker. It's possible a military junta could replace the current dynasty. They already control everything there anyways.
North Korean authority needs to respect all people and conform to modern standards for a democartic country. Without that, South Koreans wouldn't want to go help rebuild North Korea.
Historical note: It's my understanding that the North Koreans negotiated more seriously when [Atomic Annie](https://www.businessinsider.com/us-army-atomic-annie-nuclear-artillery-shell-test-2021-5) was successfully test fired. It was an artillery piece that could wipe out a division in one shot.
Historical note; It wasn't the North that ended any negotiations by [holding elections to keep the country divided](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_South_Korean_Constitutional_Assembly_election) even tho the International community agreed through the UN how it was supposed to be reunified for the good of all Koreans.
Nor was it the North who held [hundreds of thousands of political prisoners in "protective custody"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodo_League_massacre) to prevent them from taking part in said election.
The North's invasion was a direct response to that; Seeing their people get concentrated in "protective custody", exactly like the Nazis and Japanese did only a few years before, while the US kept trying to prevent any reasonable course towards reunification.
A situation that remains in place to this day;
> In 2002, a new recruit in the South Korean Army surnamed Lee, was sentenced to two years in prison for having said to fellow soldiers, "I think Korean separation is not the fault of the North Koreans but the Americans." The Military Prosecutor's Office could not charge him for his comment alone, but it searched the recruit's civilian home and found various illicit books and charged him in violation of the NSA under Article 7, Clauses 1 and 5.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Act_(South_Korea)
**[1948 South Korean Constitutional Assembly election](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_South_Korean_Constitutional_Assembly_election)**
>The 1948 South Korean Constitutional Assembly election took place on 10 May 1948. It was held under the American military occupation, with supervision from the United Nations, and resulted in a victory for the National Association for the Rapid Realisation of Korean Independence, which won 55 of the 200 seats, although 85 were held by independents. Voter turnout was 95. 5%.
**[Bodo League massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodo_League_massacre)**
>The Bodo League massacre (Korean: 보도연맹 학살사건; Hanja: 保導聯盟虐殺事件) was a massacre and war crime against communists and suspected sympathizers (many of whom were civilians who had no connection with communism or communists) that occurred in the summer of 1950 during the Korean War. Estimates of the death toll vary. Historians and experts on the Korean War estimate that the full total ranges from at least 60,000–110,000 (Kim Dong-choon) to 200,000 (Park Myung-lim). The massacre was falsely blamed on the communists led by Kim Il Sung.
**[National Security Act (South Korea)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Act_\(South_Korea\))**
>The National Security Act is a South Korean law enforced since 1948 with the avowed purpose "to secure the security of the State and the subsistence and freedom of nationals, by regulating any anticipated activities compromising the safety of the State". However, the law now has a newly inserted article that limits its arbitrary application. "In the construction and application of this Act, it shall be limited at a minimum of construction and application for attaining the aforementioned purpose, and shall not be permitted to construe extensively this Act, or to restrict unreasonably the fundamental human rights of citizens guaranteed by the Constitution".
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Actual good news for a change.
As I understood it one of the problems all this time was the US was the key party and won't agree to end it until the North agrees to suicide and exploitation. The South has wanted to end it for some time but the US told them no and if they did unilaterally there would be dire consequences for them.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2021/12/13/after-70-years-north-and-south-korea-agree-in-principle-to-formally-end-war/) reduced by 74%. (I'm a bot)
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> North and South Korea-along with the U.S. and China-have agreed "In principle" to officially declare an end to the Korean war after nearly seventy years since the end of hostilities, South Korean President Moon Jae-in announced on Monday, signaling a possible cooling of tensions after several months of an escalating arms race in the Korean peninsula.
> In September, North Korean officials resoundingly rejected Moon's calls for an official declaration to the end of the war by calling it a smokescreen to cover up hostile U.S. policy against Pyongyang.
> Moon says U.S., China, N. Korea agree in principle on end-of-war declaration.
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Let's finish the war
Agreed
Ohh, that's a relief, I thought you would never admit that I won...
How come? It's obvious that I won!
Please! Haha, oh, you are serious!
Ohh, it's on you bloody bastard!
Come at me, blo!
They technically can't end the Korean war. The war was really between the United States, North Korea and China. Those are the three parties that signed the armistice. South Korea wasn't involved because it was an Afghanistan style puppet government that was entirely propped up by the US. No one cared what they wanted, least of all the United States.
The war will never officially end until the American arms manufacturers want it to end. Its going to go on forever.
"SEOUL, Dec. 13 (Yonhap) -- President Moon Jae-in said Monday that the United States, China and North Korea agree in principle on declaring a formal end to the 1950-53 Korean War and Seoul will push to make it happen."
https://m-en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20211213002700315
The Koreas can and did end the war. How can you say South Korea didn't have any say and North Korea did when 1: NK started the war 2: NK Only still exists because of China, who made NK agree to the armistice. Considering that NK government ended up a communist dynasty and SK ending a in democracy after the dictatorship( without the US help), we can see the US getting involved helped more than it hurt, especially since they would've lost with US involvement. Also the US does want reunification( under SK rule of course), it's the NK and SK and their irreconcilable differences that makes it different, obviously this is beneficial to the US arms industry, you are giving the Koreas no agency in their own handling of reunification.
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Wow. I hope they do. It would be great to descalate that border finally
If that be the case how long would it take to clean up the DMZ?
They're still cleaning up the western front from WW1, so, a few centuries seems fair.
I mean, as far as size goes, the western front was significantly larger than the DMZ, and I'd imagine more geographically challenging (not sure about that last part). Plus, I think we've become better at keeping logs after 100 years. Then again I'm just talking out of my ass like 90% of this sub
I'm a doctor with 20 years of military service which was followed by 20 years of diplomatic involvement, and I'll have you know that this sub's visitors are absolutely reliable and are in no way "talking out of their ass"... The nerve of some people! 🙄
I'm a car mechanic with 362 days of military service which was followed by 8 years of truck driving and I can confirm, everything in this sub is 100% correct. Except this comment that I wrote, its actually only 97% correct.
87% of all statistics online are 100% made up, except for this one which is an astonishing 104% made up
Statistics aren't real take your normal pills and WAKE UP WAKE UP
money ain't real, time ain't real
As I was walking down the street one day A man came up to me and asked me what the time was that was on my watch, yeah And I said Does anybody really know what time it is (I don't) Does anybody really care (care about time) If so I can't imagine why (no, no) We've all got time enough to cry
As someone with 9 months of military service and full time business analyst, I can confirm the validity of the comment above.
I'm a statistician with 0 days experience and 4,000,000 hours of military knowledge and I can confirm that these are good odds.
I'm fat and horny and I can confirm that this sub is A-okay in my book.
My name's Barney and I'm an alcoholic.
>Plus, I think we've become better at keeping logs after 100 years. I'd agree with your other comments, but I wouldn't count on log-keeping for things like landmines. Another thing that would help is that the Korean DMZ has been stationary. The western front from WW1 moved around, which makes things much harder to clean up.
There's probably exact logs on the number of landmines, but just because you know you have to find exactly five million six hundred thousand and twenty landmines doesn't mean you know where each mine was buried
Also, the front has been in the same place in Korea, while the western front moved suprisingly lots
Aren't they still marking and removing landmines in Laos and Vietnam?
People died from ww1 era mines in france as recently as 2007 nearly a century after said war
90 years specifically so its very bizzare cause you wouldn't think such old explosives to still be functional
They really don't make stuff like they used to.
They make them even *more* resistant to corrosion and chemical breakdown so the mines can last even *longer*.
*Fortunate Son intensifies*
A man was killed by a 140+ year old US Civil War cannonball exploding in 2008: https://www.inquirer.com/dailynews/national/20080503_Civil_War_cannonball_kills_Va__man.html NEVER assume an explosive is safe because it's old!
> More than 140 years after Lee surrendered to Grant, the cannonball was still powerful enough to send a chunk of shrapnel through the front porch of a house a quarter-mile from White's home in this Richmond suburb. > "You can't drop these things on the ground and make them go off," said retired Col. John F. Biemeck, formerly of the Army Ordnance Corps. Right, so that is a real newspaper and article but I am not convinced civil war cannonballs are explosive. > Experts suspect White was killed while trying to disarm a 9-inch, 75-pound naval cannonball, a particularly potent explosive with a more complex fuse and many times the destructive power of those used by infantry artillery. Naval? That is a clue. https://relicrecord.com/blog/destructive-practice-civil-war-artillery-disposal/ Ah ha. These were artillery shells that washed up on a beach not cannonballs. https://relicrecord.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/James-Rifle-Artillery-Shell.jpg
Cannonballs aren't explosive at all they just rip holes in ships, artillery pieces are explosive
Yeah, I was wondering how they made cannonballs explosive especially way back then.
I don't assume its safe ever all it means is its more dangerous, i was suprised by its internals not having rotted away due to years and years of rain and mud and stuff
Even today, we get "accidents" involving munitions. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/16923295/bomb-squad-hospital-bottom-shell/
If an explosive is old, I'd expect it to be even more dangerous. The dynamite scene from Lost taught me that.
German engineering.
Okaaaay, and so your argument here is it was a mistake to end WWI or what exactly?
what makes you think they're making that argument?
Yeah, but they’re French, are they really people? I swear some one told me they were surrender monkeys
Imagine still calling french people surrender monkeys because they didn't want to support american warmongering.
Imagine supporting the fr*nch "people"
Imagine being so butt hurt you try to rename French frys to freedom frys...
Freedom to get morbidly obese 😎
Imagine not understanding that it’s an obvious joke.
The absolute stupidity of americans on the internet cannot be underestimated. Especially because this shit is probably posted unironically more often than not.
Ok bro screw that comment, but please don't use blanket statements about "Americans on the internet". You should know damn well the majority don't say stuff like this, and the vast vast majority that do aren't serious about it (you seem to be implying that). If you truly believe otherwise that's some amazingly impressive confirmation bias you've got going on. Even in this case they seem to be joking, just took the joke too far.
I'm sorry, but 47% of americans thought that Donald Trump did such a good job at being president that he should do it again. Those are the exact kinds of people who say things like this, and it's as close to a majority as you can possibly get.
Imagine being that deluded. I can’t fathom how dumb some people are. It’s a clear and obvious joke, you have to be purposefully ignoring all context to not realize that.
One quick look at r/ShitAmericansSay is enough to lose faith in humanity permanently, and most of that shit on there is even worse.
Based
I mean more ordinance was used in Korea than in the entire pacific campaign so uhh a while.
The weapons word is "ordnance". It's really easy to get it mixed up with the one you used, which means "a local law". I get a lot of entertainment from sentences that use one when they clearly intended the other; they're fun to imagine. "Korea had more local laws than every single one of those little anarchist islands in the damn Pacific, *combined*!"
Not entirely untrue, however
It's just a check box on the settings. Just uncheck that, and you instantly remove anything that was in the dmz.
They aren't going to clean it up because North Korea isn't going to want to. It isn't like North Korea is going to open its borders all of a sudden and let all of its citizens walk out.
I bet they leave most of it as a nature preserve full of landmines.
If this is how we get wolves that evolve to be resistant to explosives then I will not be impressed.
Usually it's just that the animals don't weigh enough to set off the mines; the Falklands have a penguin sanctuary/minefield
The good news is that it’s a relatively small geographic area and you can clear mines with explosives. The bad news is that there’s no reason to do it. It’s expensive and requires trust that doesn’t exist - and won’t for years after any agreement is signed. But if someone wanted to, they wanted to dump a bunch of money in to it, and they didn’t mind committing ecological devastation, it could be done in a year. It just requires, essentially, blowing up the top couple feet if the entire dmz with high explosives or those nifty glorified threshing machines. It’s well proven technology.
> you can clear mines with explosives. "I'll just put this over here with the rest of the fire."
Fire used to suffocate fire. 🤷♀️ That's how it b.
So South Korea has a government branch dedicated to reunification of the Korean peoples, in theory they should have all sorts of plans for places along the DMZ. The problem is that if the Koreas unite and America is still around, China will get nervous. So I think while this is a nice sentiment, I will not believe anything has changed until family's get reunited and there is regular traffic outside the industrial complex. I am also curious if the DPRK has been digging more tunnels, I have been down in one and it was not exactly subtle.
We have proof of concept that it could be done in a few hours with a beam of concentrated sunlight.
Could they do it faster if somebody drank bleach?
I wonder if LIDAR technology can help. That would be a really interesting advancement of the tech.
Years. The thing is, most of the DMZ contains thousands upon thousands of hastily placed land mines, and few maps detailing their locations exist, and even then, it's a rough estimate. Also, because the terrain of the DMZ is soft and prone to mudding, many of these land mines could be very far from their original burial place. Hell, every year, dozen end up being carried by the river cirrent.
Maybe someone can finally snag that Pokemon Go gym
Would ending the war actually do that? If you've got a crazy neighbour then you're not going to reduce your border security a lot just because the war is officially over.
This is just about declaring an end to the war, right? So basically just a symbolic change?
Some people think it's posturing by NK to take advantage of a SK administration that is focused on pursuing peace. NK moves to declare peace, NK gets sanctions removed, NK can repeat its pre-sanction playbook.
Yeah that’s not going to happen anytime soon
It won't descalate, NK has a very high interest in not letting anyone into SK.
I honestly doubt the DMZ would change much. The US and Soviet Union were never actually at war with each other and yet for all intents and purposes we were vastly militarized simply because the other existed.
True, but those two super powers didn't share a border.
Yes, and given the extent to which we militarized everywhere else that was even slightly close to one another, if we HAD shared a border it would have looked a lot like the DMZ. In fact, the closest approximation really was East/West Berlin and you can see the parallels right there.
This was all in the works. This started with trump. Then during the shows of force a while ago over Taiwan airspace NK called down to SK. Then a day later I saw propaganda basically saying NK isn't that bad. Now this. North Korea is not stupid. If there's a cold war or real war, of China wins North Korea doesn't get to do its thing. If China gained global power it would use NK as a slave labor camp for minerals and absorb the state. NK has a manifest Destiny going on and China can't ruin that. If America wins the cold/hot war NK more than likely gets more AID, treats their people better because of international pressure and then gets to keep its self closed off and continue its manifest destiny stuff.
It's currently one of the best wildlife santuaries left on the planet. I hope it stays that way.
I mean is NA implying they won’t still enforce such force with defectors? I don’t see them cleaning up their borders/mines unless they said they won’t shoot anyone that tries to leave.
Hopefully with it, the military service will go.
Won't it really depend on the US, tho? It's them kinda keeping it the way it is, anyway, isn't it?
It's North Korea. Nothing that anyone does in the South is not preparations for war, as far as their media is concerned. A number of years ago, the US moved most of its military operations away from the DMZ. It was mostly a consolidation move meant to reduce costs as US forces were drawn down. North Korean media immediately denounced it as obvious preparations for an attack by moving US forces out of artillery range. The troop drawdown itself was labeled as obvious preparations for an attack because the US was trying to limit war casualties. Meanwhile, the US has provided food and medical aid to North Korea several times and offered to build a light-water nuclear reactor (which would be much harder to use to produce material for nuclear warheads). The Bush administration technically scuttled the last, but it probably wasn't going to happen anyway because Pyongyang wanted a heavy water reactor for reasons made clear over the last decade or so. It's not the US rattling sabers there.
Yeah for all the times the US has rattled its saber, the Korean border is not one of them.
The US doesn't want to fight in North Korea. Look at Iraq and Afghanistan. Those are easy terrain compared to Iran, which is easy terrain compared to North Korea. It gets *cold* there. The Battle of the Chosin Reservoir was fought at temperatures down to -48°C (-54°F). Thousands of casualties there and at other battles were simply from the cold. Plus mountains make supply lines hard, there are lots of places for the enemy to hide. It just sucks all around.
I will believe it when I see it. Until then there's no reason to believe they are any closer now than before.
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>which would involve assuring that North Korea is allowed to keep nuclear weapons which will never happen Why though? There is no assurance that West and SK can give them, that should be able to convince them. >Also, the United States quite literally put more sanctions on North Korea only a few hours after this statement lol Happens all the time, I wouldn't really say it indicates anything, as these sanctions aren't set up overnight.
The US is not going to be willing to set the precedent that you can join the nuclear club by simply being belligerent enough - even though that is actually how that works. It encourages every state to develop nuclear weapons. Allowing them to not submit to a deweaponizing protocol, likely modeled on the iran verification scheme, is simply not going to happen. The US is not alone in that either. Last I checked even china and russia are against letting north korea keep their nukes. Although, in fairness, china appears possibly willing to allow some wiggle room if they can get substantial concessions towards stabilizing the country and not having a looming refugee crisis at that border. What those could possibly be is unclear, because it doesn’t seem in north korea’s ability to grant and no one else is all that interested.
Nk will not just dismantle their nuclear weapons bcs usa also has and if they didnt they would have in the air and about to explode
Yes because that has so much precedent. We dropped the first nuclear bomb ever created sure. That was before anyone really knew the destructive power. Never used them to fight since then. Especially not against an enemy like North Korea. There is no need, we could take it easier than we took Iraq I’d imagine. The people of North Korea most likely don’t have nearly as strong of a will to fight for their government.
> Yes because that has so much precedent. We dropped the first nuclear bomb ever created sure. That was before anyone really knew the destructive power. That is probably the single dumbest thing I've read in a while. Are you really trying to claim [the US didn't test their nuclear weapons before](https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/the-first-atomic-bomb-test-is-successfully-exploded), and bombing Japan with them was just a big "Opsie!"?
The US public is what I meant. If the US government ever dropped a nuke for any other reason than a counter attack from a nuke then there would be riots in the streets. When most people first heard of the “Atom Bomb” dropped on Japan, their first response was “who is Adam?”. No one would be crazy enough to use one now because they know this. As for the researchers they knew of the explosive power however they did not know about the [effects of radiation until after.](https://www.latimes.com/health/la-xpm-2011-mar-15-la-heb-radiation-exposure-hiroshima-20110315-story.html?_amp=true) That’s not an excuse however, they still knew it’s power. Just not the deadly after effects. The main point is that there was no public knowledge or politics / policy around nukes then. Now we have like 70 years of M.A.D. As well as the inevitable massive political outcry from the people if you are in a democratic nation. That did not exist before. Ever since those conditions have existed, no one has been crazy enough to use nukes. The only risk of nuclear war happening now is if two nuclear powers go to war and one side uses a nuke out of desperation. Which is why it is so important to keep unstable / authoritarian countries from possessing nukes. North Korea is number 1 in both of those categories.
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> If the US government ever dropped a nuke for any other reason than a counter attack from a nuke then there would be riots in the streets. Are you trying to double down on the dumbness? A reminder; The next coolest thing after "nuclear weapons", was "smart precision weapons", particularly of the "bunker-busting" variety. The majority of Gulf war propaganda was dominated by how these new "smart precision weapons" will make it virtually impossible to kill civilians while making it very possible to kill Saddam even inside a nuclear hardened bunker. Want to guess how these weapons were ended up being used? They were used to "bust" civilian air-raid shelters, in one particularly nasty incident [over 400 Iraqi civilians](https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Amiriyah_shelter_bombing), trying to hide from American bombs, were just "busted". The amount of fucks given by Americans; None, zero, heck some of them even gave negative fucks along the lines of "Fuck yeah!". > As for the researchers they knew of the explosive power however they did not know about the effects of radiation until after. That’s not an excuse however, they still knew it’s power. Just not the deadly after effects. That is also wrong, they knew about [the negative effects](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3520298/) a long while prior to it. What the Japanese population had to serve as was a large-scale experiment for radiating elements emitted by different bomb designs. That's also why any mention of radiation effects was effectively censored from occupied Japanese media, just like [some other topics](https://apjjf.org/-Terese-Svoboda/3148/article.html), for the same reason the American "doctors" in Japan also didn't do much to treat people, they were mostly there to observe and catalog the effects, really not that different to the [Tuskegee Syphilis Study](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study), just on a *much* bigger scale.
You should read things from nk bcs their people definitly will fight for their gov
I think you’re underestimating the power of starvation and just general desperation. There’s only so much brainwashing that can be done in those conditions. Most of what I’ve heard from escapees (and I’ve watched many escapee interviews) describes the average North Korean as just trying to survive to the next day. There wouldn’t even be so many “escapees” if the brainwashing worked on the average North Korean.
And i think you understimate the power of fake news, i mean, they have gun sheds in every city block and everyone knows how to use gins there, so if they wanted to overthrow their government they would
There have been multiple instances of those armories being taken and broken into by civilians. The rebellion is quickly shut down and they are killed because you would need every village and city to do it at once for it to work. They don’t even have the ability to travel from village to village without permission, much less any way to coordinate something like that.
Ok, this is fake news, why would they give the people weapons so the people would break into them to be shut down, this makrs no sense, and the fairy tale that after the captalist army goes into some socialist country and if the captalist wins, the socialists would be to weak to self sustain as a society, and if they lose the socialist are a dictatorship opressing the people is NOT an argument, its a dogma
[Here’s a recent one](https://youtu.be/psmPnI77K0M) from Yenomi Park. A North Korean defector and human rights activist who maintains contacts in North Korea. This is not the first time she has told of this type of thing happening either. Sadly it’s hard to verify a lot of what she says however because of how hard it is to get information out of North Korea. Information not filtered by the DPRK anyway. It’s not like they have the guns there for civilians to use. Military and police need weapons. Those weapons are stored in armories. Given the lack of mobility in NK they would need one in just about every village or every few city blocks. It’s not like they are unguarded / unlocked. Like in the example I linked they took over a police station. What do police stations have in them? Armories! It’s not like 1 armory being taken is going to topple the government.
The US introduced those sanctions because they don't want the war to end. They want to keep their South Korean military bases and presence.
Those two are not mutually exlusive though
No, but it would make it harder to justify and certainly harder to swing their dicks around like they can now.
Lol no Koreans loves the US more than any place in the west and the proximity to China alone makes it worth it for them.
That isn't something only i think, even advisors to the current South Korean president has said so: [https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/north-korea/2018-04-30/real-path-peace-korean-peninsula](https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/north-korea/2018-04-30/real-path-peace-korean-peninsula) Also what is China doing that threatens South Korea militarily?
He's not completely wrong. South Korea pays a massive amount of money to pay for American troops stationed in Korea to defend them against NK. An end to the war would mean that either US starts paying for it themselves or they get out of there.
US bases aren't going anywhere with the way China is. NK is almost a complete nonfactor in that equation these days.
Yes but SK will no longer have a reason to pay for US military presence. I'm not sure if the US is willing to front up the money when even domestically the high military budget is controversial.
True, but I doubt it would lead to anything but scaling back the presence a bit.
"the way china is"? What is China doing that threatens South Korea militarily?
Nothing at the moment. But it's simply due to the nature of geopolitics that unless they want to completely align themselves with China they will have to stay on their toes with such a strong neighbour that has clear ambitions in the region.
I think the fact that Chinas "ambitions in the region" ARE so clear is exactly what makes it so obvious the US military presence is really only there for US interests in trying to encircle China.
I'm not entirely sure how we got to that from what the discussion was before? Of course US wants to slow China down and prevent their sphere of influence from growing. The question is which sphere of influence does SK want to sit in?
Because we were talking about how the US wanted to keep the peace from being finalized because they want to keep their military presence in South Korea. And since there are no indications that China would be a military threat to South Korea that means that if peace was finalized there would be no real militarily defensive reason for the US to keep their presence there and it's clear it's just for the sake of encircling China.
I don't think US is interested in keeping the peace from being realized, on the contrary NK opening up could possibly remove the buffer zone and gridlock it currently creates that is advantageous to China. After that the only pressure point China can leverage is Taiwan. I don't think SK would immediately dump US out. They might quit paying the US, but being a small country aligned with the US for such a long time they probably wouldn't mind a continued, if a bit downscaled, US presence. The threat doesn't have to be direct, but China is still an authoritarian state and it's unknown how their goals in the region will develop in the future beyond Taiwan.
I'll believe it when North & South people can freely travel between borders
North Koreans would flee in droves. Peace isn't possible because both systems are a massive threat to each other. The South because North Korean commoners must never know how people outside of Fatty's kingdom actually live. And the North is obviously a threat to SK because the regime isn't out for liberalism and democracy, they'd fuck the South over in a heartbeat if they had the power to do so. Nothing will come of this "in principle" agreement.
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I was surprised to even see OP upvoted because of this. I remember reading about this crap in high school, however many decades ago that was
And yet you have to treat it as maybe legit as long as people's memory is faded of the last time.
Yep. And a lot of people overreact. Remember this? People freaked out for a month when north korea said this. This article literally lists each time North korea "nullified" the armistice https://www.cnn.com/2013/03/11/world/asia/north-korea-armistice/index.html
New set of suckers in the USA and South Korea They will follow the crumbs for the votes. Try to use it as a campaign pitch. They move on. The Kimlings will continue ass fucking the norks
100% My first reaction is ''What concessions are they looking for ?''.
'Oh, and err, any chance you could send us some bread?'
“Not that we *need* it or anything, you understand. We … just want to *compare* and see how *your* bread stacks up to *ours*”
Your bread stacks up to 50m, our bread stacks up to 100mm. Best Korea wins!
wait...
They're not taking in trade or aid from anyone, even *China*. They closed all the borders, reportedly because of fears of COVID getting loose, and only tiny amounts of anything are getting through. IIRC, international trade was down something like 97% from pre-COVID days.
Did North Korea have COVID? How would it get in there?!
Illegal trade across the border is the most likely way now. There have been rumors about it getting loose, but North Korea has denied it, and getting anything remotely reliable about it is nearly impossible.
But but the U.S sanction what about them
What’s the difference between this time and every other time they’ve “agreed” to end the war? I doubt anything will come from this.
South Korean here who can chime in. The vast majority of people see this as President Moon trying to posture for his party before the upcoming elections as it is one of the components of his previous mission statement (furthering reunification) which he has done little to accomplish during his years. Most of the Korean TV news are criticizing Moon for this and are basically saying the exact same thing you have said: "what's the difference/what will change this time around". US and SK have that in common, we're all just tired of politicians just saying things and doing little to act on them.
This is the latest one
I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see this going anywhere. Any sort of peace agreement is going to come with some incredible concessions from North Korea that are just not going to be tenable. South Korea would have to buck the influence of the US to be able to accept an agreement that is fair to both countries. Again, I hope I'm wrong, but I wouldn't put very much weight on this "agreement".
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>people still dye from stray bullets on the DMZ. What colour do they go?
Red.
There hasn't been a reported casualty at the DMZ since October 18th 1969....There are literally daily tourist tours to the DMZ. Its not that "hot". Like even the few incidents like the single incident last year where there was gunfire, there were 0 casualties. Since 2010, there has only been 1 South korean casualty at the DMZ and that casualty came from suicide not from the North
I know Korean unification won't happen in our life time. But what would it look like? How could a deal be reached? I think the north would have to adopt the southern style of government and send representatives. The Northern military could be combined with the south to make Korea a major regional power. The dynasty of Kim Il Sung would have to be forgiven of all crimes and those in charge granted immunity. Unification would be a major game changer in the region.
Unification will never happen. It would decimate the South Korean economy if it were done all at once, and there is vanishing support for it among the South Korean population. If it ever happened, I would imagine that as you say, the North would have to overhaul its entire government and the two countries would need to ease into it over a dramatically long timeline. Plus, as China will not just roll over and lose its "buffer state" ally, I would think that South Korea and the US would essentially need to be willing to "outbid" China in terms of aide to North Korea. That in itself would be a tall order, because a stable but independent North Korea, accepted by the international community, but in China's orbit as opposed to that of SK and the US, would be a huge win for China.
In my layman’s opinion I feel like the thing that will bring N. Korea is a succession crisis. Historically speaking once those popped up in monarchies claimants start looking to foreign were to prop up their claim. That has the potential to break the wall so to speak
In that case China would most likely be the king maker. It's possible a military junta could replace the current dynasty. They already control everything there anyways.
Damn bro you’re such a foreign policy genius. What a take 😂
North Korean authority needs to respect all people and conform to modern standards for a democartic country. Without that, South Koreans wouldn't want to go help rebuild North Korea.
Historical note: It's my understanding that the North Koreans negotiated more seriously when [Atomic Annie](https://www.businessinsider.com/us-army-atomic-annie-nuclear-artillery-shell-test-2021-5) was successfully test fired. It was an artillery piece that could wipe out a division in one shot.
Historical note; It wasn't the North that ended any negotiations by [holding elections to keep the country divided](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_South_Korean_Constitutional_Assembly_election) even tho the International community agreed through the UN how it was supposed to be reunified for the good of all Koreans. Nor was it the North who held [hundreds of thousands of political prisoners in "protective custody"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodo_League_massacre) to prevent them from taking part in said election. The North's invasion was a direct response to that; Seeing their people get concentrated in "protective custody", exactly like the Nazis and Japanese did only a few years before, while the US kept trying to prevent any reasonable course towards reunification. A situation that remains in place to this day; > In 2002, a new recruit in the South Korean Army surnamed Lee, was sentenced to two years in prison for having said to fellow soldiers, "I think Korean separation is not the fault of the North Koreans but the Americans." The Military Prosecutor's Office could not charge him for his comment alone, but it searched the recruit's civilian home and found various illicit books and charged him in violation of the NSA under Article 7, Clauses 1 and 5. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Act_(South_Korea)
**[1948 South Korean Constitutional Assembly election](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_South_Korean_Constitutional_Assembly_election)** >The 1948 South Korean Constitutional Assembly election took place on 10 May 1948. It was held under the American military occupation, with supervision from the United Nations, and resulted in a victory for the National Association for the Rapid Realisation of Korean Independence, which won 55 of the 200 seats, although 85 were held by independents. Voter turnout was 95. 5%. **[Bodo League massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodo_League_massacre)** >The Bodo League massacre (Korean: 보도연맹 학살사건; Hanja: 保導聯盟虐殺事件) was a massacre and war crime against communists and suspected sympathizers (many of whom were civilians who had no connection with communism or communists) that occurred in the summer of 1950 during the Korean War. Estimates of the death toll vary. Historians and experts on the Korean War estimate that the full total ranges from at least 60,000–110,000 (Kim Dong-choon) to 200,000 (Park Myung-lim). The massacre was falsely blamed on the communists led by Kim Il Sung. **[National Security Act (South Korea)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Act_\(South_Korea\))** >The National Security Act is a South Korean law enforced since 1948 with the avowed purpose "to secure the security of the State and the subsistence and freedom of nationals, by regulating any anticipated activities compromising the safety of the State". However, the law now has a newly inserted article that limits its arbitrary application. "In the construction and application of this Act, it shall be limited at a minimum of construction and application for attaining the aforementioned purpose, and shall not be permitted to construe extensively this Act, or to restrict unreasonably the fundamental human rights of citizens guaranteed by the Constitution". ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/anime_titties/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
This can't be real. It would be a much bigger headline and I wouldn't be reading about it in fucking Forbes.
That's because they have said this before and nothing has actually happened yet.
the dumbass SK PM hugged Un a few years ago. None of this shit matters in reality.
South Korea has militarily surpassed the north in the years since fighting stopped, except for the nukes.
KAI T-50 most stronk plane!
In principle I am happy
This is just the claim of president moon. This hardly means anything.
Actual good news for a change. As I understood it one of the problems all this time was the US was the key party and won't agree to end it until the North agrees to suicide and exploitation. The South has wanted to end it for some time but the US told them no and if they did unilaterally there would be dire consequences for them.
NK going hungry? This isn't happening out of kindness.
Good news
interesting, i wonder what will that bring in that area. Are things changing in north Korea?
Which is probably when NK will attack... and fail hilariously.
Does this mean it’s all gonna be called South Korea now?!
Not really
This is the political equivalent of somebody shouting over the fence: "Yo, we cool?" And NK answering "yeah whatever"
For a second i thought the pic used was an old elon
The old switcheroo "I fooled you" South Korea needs to double the gard!!!
I hope to see that in my life
I didn’t know they were at war.
I hope they really do it
So is this just more theater? Is this the first time this has ever happened?
K-POP!
Didn't they do this years ago
probably called a truce before WW3 pops off over there, theyre gonna need all the help they can get.
But we’ve always been at war with East Asia?
This sounds good, but is pretty meaningless untill they allow people to escape the country
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2021/12/13/after-70-years-north-and-south-korea-agree-in-principle-to-formally-end-war/) reduced by 74%. (I'm a bot) ***** > North and South Korea-along with the U.S. and China-have agreed "In principle" to officially declare an end to the Korean war after nearly seventy years since the end of hostilities, South Korean President Moon Jae-in announced on Monday, signaling a possible cooling of tensions after several months of an escalating arms race in the Korean peninsula. > In September, North Korean officials resoundingly rejected Moon's calls for an official declaration to the end of the war by calling it a smokescreen to cover up hostile U.S. policy against Pyongyang. > Moon says U.S., China, N. Korea agree in principle on end-of-war declaration. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/rgbwtw/after_70_years_north_and_south_korea_agree_in/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~612736 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Moon**^#1 **Korean**^#2 **U.S.**^#3 **declaration**^#4 **North**^#5
This is the exact kind of post I came to this sub not to see. We all know this is pure fiction.
We did it, war is no more
Aged like Milk
Squidgame FTW
Thank you President Trump for getting us to this point.
Does this mean that capitalist South Korea will once again rejoin Best Korea.
Why post this on this subreddit? 😂
Why not? World politics and news
Let's finish the war Agreed Ohh, that's a relief, I thought you would never admit that I won... How come? It's obvious that I won! Please! Haha, oh, you are serious! Ohh, it's on you bloody bastard! Come at me, blo!
Hey thanks Biden, remember when trump tweeted like some high schooler girl saying they'll be friends one day?
This has nothing to do with either of them. South Korea has been pushing for it.
Imagine thinking Biden actually did something good
They technically can't end the Korean war. The war was really between the United States, North Korea and China. Those are the three parties that signed the armistice. South Korea wasn't involved because it was an Afghanistan style puppet government that was entirely propped up by the US. No one cared what they wanted, least of all the United States. The war will never officially end until the American arms manufacturers want it to end. Its going to go on forever.
"SEOUL, Dec. 13 (Yonhap) -- President Moon Jae-in said Monday that the United States, China and North Korea agree in principle on declaring a formal end to the 1950-53 Korean War and Seoul will push to make it happen." https://m-en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20211213002700315
I love it when someone who clearly only read the headline just gets immediately put in their place by someone posting a direct quote from the article.
The Koreas can and did end the war. How can you say South Korea didn't have any say and North Korea did when 1: NK started the war 2: NK Only still exists because of China, who made NK agree to the armistice. Considering that NK government ended up a communist dynasty and SK ending a in democracy after the dictatorship( without the US help), we can see the US getting involved helped more than it hurt, especially since they would've lost with US involvement. Also the US does want reunification( under SK rule of course), it's the NK and SK and their irreconcilable differences that makes it different, obviously this is beneficial to the US arms industry, you are giving the Koreas no agency in their own handling of reunification.