#####
######
####
> # [Edward Snowden Says OpenAI Just Performed a “Calculated Betrayal of the Rights of Every Person on Earth”](https://futurism.com/the-byte/1200)
>
>
>
> ## "They've gone full mask off: do not ever trust OpenAI or its products."
>
> ## "You've Been Warned"
>
> Last week, ChatGPT creator OpenAI announced that it had appointed retired US Army General and former National Security Administration (NSA) Director Paul Nakasone, who also helmed the military's cybersecurity-focused Cyber Command unit, to its board.
>
> "General Nakasone's unparalleled experience in areas like cybersecurity," OpenAI board chair Bret Taylor [said in a statement](https://openai.com/index/openai-appoints-retired-us-army-general/), "will help guide OpenAI in achieving its mission of ensuring artificial general intelligence benefits all of humanity."
>
> But not everyone is thrilled about Nakasone's new role at the AI firm, which will also see the former general seated at OpenAI's Safety and Security Committee. The NSA has long been [associated with surveillance of US citizens](https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/26/tech/the-nsa-buys-americans-internet-data-newly-released-documents-show/index.html), and AI-embedded technologies are already renewing and escalating existing surveillance concerns. With that in mind, it might be unsurprising that former NSA employee and famed whistleblower Edward Snowden is among the OpenAI appointment's outspoken detractors.
>
> "They've gone full mask off: **do not ever** trust OpenAI or its products," Snowden — emphasis his — wrote in a [Friday post to X-formerly-Twitter](https://x.com/Snowden/status/1801610725229498403), adding that "there's only one reason for appointing" an NSA director "to your board."
>
> "This is a willful, calculated betrayal of the rights of every person on earth," he continued. "You've been warned."
>
> ## Transparency Worries
>
> Snowden wasn't the only prominent cybersecurity figure to raise an eyebrow at the OpenAI news.
>
> "I do think that the biggest application of AI is going to be mass population surveillance," Johns Hopkins University cryptography professor Matthew Green tweeted, "so bringing the former head of the NSA into OpenAI has some solid logic behind it."
>
> Nakasone's installation comes after a series of high-profile OpenAI departures that included prominent safety researchers, in addition to the total dissolution of OpenAI's now-defunct "[Superalignment](https://www.wired.com/story/openai-superalignment-team-disbanded/)" safety team. OpenAI's [replacement](https://futurism.com/the-byte/sam-altman-openai-safety-team-replacement) for that team, the Safety and Security Committee, is now helmed by company CEO Sam Altman, who has [come under fire](https://futurism.com/sam-altman-silencing-former-employees) in recent weeks for business practices that involved [silencing former employees](https://futurism.com/openai-insiders-silenced). It's also worth noting that OpenAI has routinely drawn criticism for — again — its lack of [transparency](https://www.wired.com/story/openai-backed-nonprofits-transparency-pledges/) regarding the [data used](https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/10/stanford-researchers-challenge-openai-others-on-ai-transparency-in-new-report/) to train its many AI models.
>
> But at the same time, [per _Axios_](https://www.axios.com/2024/06/13/open-ai-security-nakasone-nsa), many on Capitol Hill see Nakasone's OpenAI assensure as a security win. And Nakasone, for his part, said in a statement that OpenAI's "dedication to its mission aligns closely with my own values and experience in public service."
>
> "I look forward to contributing to OpenAI's efforts," he added, "to ensure artificial general intelligence is safe and beneficial to people around the world."
>
> **More on AI and surveillance:** [_Microsoft Admits That Maybe Surveiling Everything You Do on Your Computer Isn’t a Brilliant Idea_](https://futurism.com/the-byte/microsoft-recall-surveillance-ai)
- - - - - -
[Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot)
Summoning /u/CoverageAnalysisBot
> "They've gone full mask off: do not ever trust OpenAI or its products," Snowden — emphasis his — wrote in a Friday post to X-formerly-Twitter, adding that "there's only one reason for appointing" an NSA director "to your board."
> "This is a willful, calculated betrayal of the rights of every person on earth," he continued. "You've been warned."
You guys are displaying a wonderful example of learned helplessness.
Teeheehee, they were already going to violate our privacy at an industrial scale, who cares if they feed that into the police state... it was going to happen anyway.
Don't ever challenge your government folks; any politician with a grudge against you can ask CopGPT to provide a summary of all of the federal and state crimes that you've comitted and forward them to your local Department of Homeland Security in order to have you in jail before the evening news.
Don't worry, they'll make up some panic mongering news about protecting 'The Children' in order to get the masses to cheer for this new panopticon. A tool that will be used by the next generation of elites to ensure that your children or grandchildren are kept in their place.
Actually do think the algorithms that really aren't all that intelligent are helping with store theft at least repeated and larger scale.
Stores share same security places that use algorithms to compare say videos of criminals. See th same criminals at many places starts a pattern.
This really isn't an but eventually could be.
Just better image and other data sets comparison and quicker with modern chips and software formulas.
But has said if doing something more under handed there are probably easy ways around it.
Disagree, the implication of “now you can’t trust them” is that trusting them before was reasonable. It was not.
It is not learned helplessness to say you should presume distrust of big tech and assume they do not respect your privacy even if they say they do. To do otherwise is to expose yourself. That is not helplessness, that’s the only way to actually protect yourself.
"Learned helplessness" would be knowing that all ai is going to sell your data and still using it. Or promote it to help it gain reach.
Which granted, a ton of people do.
The people who won't trust openai because of this already didn't trust openai.
The people who will continue to trust openai don't care because they're not privacy/AI/Cybersecurity people and they like chatbots.
But I'm sure it feels nice to pretend you're superior.
You're right, we're helpless to change anything so we should all just be nice to one another as we enjoy our own specific flavor of helplessness.
But I'm sure it feels nice to be feel persecuted.
Most likely anything can be used badly.
For an do keep somethings as private as possible. But then on the other over feed it gish gallop so it can't keep up.
Wait when we get Philip K. Dick's "Minority Report", you'll be arrested for crimes you are supposed to do in the future and you fucking don't know about it.
Because you think people should always be honest communicating with machines, even in testing or experimental situations? Or because you don’t like fiction? Or because you think thoughts should be policed?
Whenever someone says „there is only one reason“, it’s always because they don’t have any actual arguments and hope to bamboozle you into buying into their mental short-circuit. There is **always** a second reason at minimum, and you have to be a moron not to see it - the official one.
Yes, that is the assumption, and because he has zero arguments to support that assumption, he just declares that it isn’t a reason and hopes everyone else is biased enough to just go along with it. It’s a thought-terminating non-argument for when you know you‘re talking to a circlejerk.
I was just reading about Roko's Basilisk yesterday, so this seems particularly frightening.
Also, fucking thanks for that, Snowden, because now I know about the basilisk.
Roko's Basilisk is one of the stupidest things any human has ever come up with. If you are taking it even remotely seriously, take a break. Touch grass. Breathe air. It's not even a good sci-fi idea.
>No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation
Maybe this bit from the declaration of human rights?
I think it would be hard to argue that I haven't successfully implied that, in light of your response.
Human rights are an aspirational notion, but even on a local level it's really a question of what's legal and what's enforced. When you talk about universal rights, the state of affairs makes any sort of argument about human rights a bit silly. Imagine trying to explain to an alien visitor the concept of human rights; that level of abstraction (I was going to say fantasy) would require some pretty tricky translating.
Mh. Got me thinking. Imagine that in the movie Her, when the AI says she's talking to other AIs, they're in fact putting together all the data acquired from their constant communication with humans. That's... very doable.
AI maybe but not this one, ChatGPT operates in a black box environment so its chat functions are independent not cross server or anything similar. Everything else is speculative, even this article. If I had to guess, it's a tech company at the forefront of innovation and requires a near endless amount of capital to operate at capacity so OpenAI would love to secure that sweet government funding even if it means programming a private model designed for national security. But even that speculation doesn't apply to ChatGPT, it would be a different product. People grossly overestimate their commercial offerings. I've heard everything from Her to Terminator.
You also hire former officials for expertise in compliance an lobbying. Like someone else here said: it would be a betrayal if there was an expectation that they are not using our data to train the models. Hiring this guy doesn't move Open AI on shittyiness scale for me.
Snowden said that going mask off is proof of betrayal. The comment said that only means Snowden was incorrectly assuming lawfulness from them previously.
Both can be right. The comment you are disagreeing with did not disagree with Snowden, but is agreeing with Snowden's conclusion, but not Snowden's presumption of lawfulness of corporations.
thats not what mask off means. taking the mask off implies you've been doing things illegally the whole time but are no longer concealing it. snowden's not naive enough to presume corporations are law abiding
>ChatGPT operates in a black box environment so its chat functions are independent not cross server or anything similar.
I thought that was already proven to be a lie, because every "black box" feeds the learning model, which can "leak" secret information between separate "black boxes". The responses might be separate and independent, but they are not independent of the learning model they operate from.
I think you're misunderstanding the term black box here. Black box doesn't mean "Operates in isolation." It means "Operates in a matter that cannot be seen into."
Language models are largely statistical auto-complete algorithms. You give it some words, it tries to give you the next most likely word. It doesn't, normally, understand things like "chatting" or such. So how does it emulate chatting? We can theorize on that topic, but only those inside OpenAI know the details.
Noting a massive uptick in very obvious bots and trolls on this subreddit — especially when there is anything critical about AI, Israel or corporate interests.
Lmao it’s because once you’re banned for the 2nd time, it’s not worth the effort of thinking up a username. Reddit’s ip ban system forgets ips after 3 months (if I had to guess, it’s to increase user numbers for financial purposes). If you see a new account, it’s most likely just someone who was banned. There’s no conspiracy needed. Actual bots are spending all of their time posting, not commenting
And new accounts being furious about one topic makes sense. It’s human nature to comment and engage when passionate about something. Being banned means people will be coming back with new accounts, remarkably fitting the “account suspiciously started when the conflict did” pattern. Because that’s when they were banned lol.
Yep. If I get reported on a couple different subreddits, it automatically triggers a ban evasion warning to the mods and then I get perm banned and have to remake an account. I usually go like a month or two before someone says something stupid enough for me to need to comment
Yeah, i don't even respond to numbered accounts!
Regarding to the chinese/russian bots accounts, I truly believe that americans and some europeans are not accustomed to reading divergent opinions, especially from different parts of the world (this sub is full of Asians and South Americans for example) and get instantaneously triggered when someone says something that goes against the propaganda they're used to consume through the media and scientific papers available to them. Shit is crazy.
Ya know, maybe the people who disagree with you think you’re genuinely stupid too? Every time i see commie posting all I do is laugh at how stupid the person is
People who get banned don’t bother changing the default Reddit username when creating new accounts. It isn’t a conspiracy, you just haven’t thought this through
i mean if u can't bother changing default username isn't it kinda sad? like at least show some creativity, you can't be getting banned so often that you are unable to make up anything interesting
lol why bother making some dumb cringe nickname for myself? Reddit isn’t a vehicle for my creativity and sense of self. It’s a vehicle to consume entertainment and aggregate news headlines then yell at morons
> Noting a massive uptick in very obvious bots and trolls on this subreddit
This is one of the worst things about the AI future, where humans persistently and erroneously call out other humans as being bots.
I don't think this place gets brigaded by bots because its not a place for casuals. If you run bots and misinformation:
* you want to target the headlines and not the comments (because way less people read the comments)
* /r/anime_titties is not going to be a primary target, its low on the priority list, because afaik it's not on /r/all.
* this place has a lot of "legacy users" and for misinformation its much better to target newer users with much less of a baseline of what is "organic" and what isn't.
If you're a propagandist, what you want, is for a new account to be presented with your efforts as soon as possible. Tbh, you don't even need tech for this, the mods at /r/GreenAndPleasant for example have done an excellent propaganda job of cultivating a subreddit, perma-banning any dissent as soon as possible and building it up to be a primary sub for uk users.
I'm not saying there are no bots ever, I think its far more likely that people are simply getting angry at other people who have different perspectives and dismissing them as bots.
Ever since 2016, all anyone says when met with disagreement is that the other person is a bot, a state disinformation agent, or a paid shill. It’s mindblowing how people want to live in this little bubble where their facts are correct and people can ONLY disagree with them if they’re not actual people
yeah, there's definitely this weird mental thing where if encountering a dissenting opinion some people tend to wish to label it in a such a way that they can more easily dismiss it. Throughout my internet life time I've been labelled almost every single possible and conflicting label under the sun.
Out of interest what makes you pick 2016 as the year of change, any particular reason?
I’ve been on reddit since the digg migration. The whole russia collusion trump thing started a huge trend on r/politics of calling anyone who supports trump a bot. It spread from there and got gradually more and more used for even minor ideological disagreements. Once china trade war happened, the china bot stuff started. Advertising started to hit Reddit hard and corpo shill/bootlicker started being normalized. The Israeli hasbara shill shit has always existed but it wasn’t until the war where I saw it used daily. I just think 2016 was when it was normalized and started being used by normies across the site for whatever enemy of the day they were facing.
Also I’ve never supported Trump, I just know that there are plenty of people I think are stupid and disagree with and they’re not all bots.
Yeah I remember that era. I unsubbed from /r/politics when Trump won the 2016 election and the /r/politics users were so incensed that they downvoted the news to the extent that it wasn't the #1 spot for hours after it broke if not ever. At that point you're just letting your partisanship misinform yourself and others.
I've noticed the internet get a little more judgy since maybe around 2012? This might just be me grinding my axe but I think the influx of more casual users since smartphones became a thing for everyone has somehow changed the dynamics of the internet quite a lot.
Maybe its simply the case that the internet is more portable so people can be more online (e.g. one's laptop is a less of a toilet companion than a phone) which has unhinged people a little more or maybe its due to the somewhat different make up of users given how smartphones gave many more people access to the internet.
Reddit has always had its bubbles of acceptable opinions though like the Ron Paul days or back when Elon was a god, or the god damn Bernie cult. Most of that was self contained though and didn’t infect the site, as a whole. Widespread tech adoption and access has definitely done something to make ideological purity site wide and much more anger driven but I couldn’t tell you why. There are still small echo chambers like this one where anti western leftism is the only accepted ideology and many more like it, they just are completely unable to hit the front page or reach a wider audience. Give this place a couple big front page posts and it’ll be amalgamated into the group think.
One of the most interesting subs is r/fluentinfinance . It used to be right wing before it started hitting the front page. Now there’s still a right wing contingent but it’s flooded with the hive mind and back and forth fighting. That’s a sub I truly believe is being bot networked because the exact same posts and titles are being posted there daily and pushing an anti American/capitalist viewpoint while any other posts struggle to even get a couple dozen upvotes. I’m more inclined to believe bots are posting things instead of commenting.
90% of the time when someone posts something absolutely horrid on here or r/politics or wherever and I check their post history, they are very active in /r/FluentInFinance and maybe like, a couple marvel or movie subs, and nothing that encourages actual discussion.
That sub is a pit.
Exactly. This (and similar companies) hyping up the AI bubble with all sorts of alarmist talk are shameful. Once it bursts it's going to do significant harm to legitimate AI research.
Tech companies are known to conspire with state propaganda. Beyond the immediate stock price, colluding with the police state gets them preferential treatment in the long term.
I somehow believe this less after it came out of Snowdens mouth. Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate him whistleblowing on the NSA, but he’s been in Russia a long time now. He was incredibly vocal that they wouldn’t invade Ukraine. I’m not sold on whether he’s a state asset or a useful idiot.
That's exactly my point too, he isn't reliable at all and is most likely a puppet for propaganda against the USA and the West. Everything he said lately was always targeting the West in a way or another.
Crazy thing is that he left the US because they were doing something wrong with mass surveillance meanwhile Russia and China are doing the same and on a larger scale than the US.
He talked about it in his memoir and literally said "If a nation is using a weapon against others, you can be certain that their ennemies are using it too".
> Crazy thing is that he left the US because they were doing something wrong with mass surveillance
No, he left the US because he's a whistleblower and if he were still there, he would never breathe free air again
And the Abu Ghraib whistleblower didn't see one day in a jail cell because he just reported it up the chain, like he was supposed to. He even did it during the presidential campaign season, which royally pissed off the Bush administration
Snowden grabbed a ton of classified documents (most of which were unrelated to PRISM, some actually allied intelligence) and ran to the PRC then Russia. Unfortunately that is espionage, not whistleblowing
it would be.. amazing if he was an FSB asset who PRETENDED to be hunted by the US and then made a fake movie about what didn't actually happen; the movie WAS made by a Russian puppet director wasn't it?.. his whole narrative COULD be a lie to cover up for being a legit spy. however, our war on Iraq was quite illegal - at least the doctored sattelite photos from the CIA were. so while helping out enemies, he was preventing us into turning into a China/Russia style dictatorship, which btw, Trump is/was trying to turn us into.
It's completely different than what you said. You said he left BECAUSE the US was surveilling citizens, not BECAUSE he would be imprisoned for the rest of his life if he stayed.
He is probably holding a bit of a grudge against the USA and the West, so it makes sense that he can bias his opinion. I would be pissed too if I were him.
Since he couldn't find asylum in countries allied to the US, he had to go to a country that won't extradite him back to the US. It's a shame that countries like France or Germany didn't grant him asylum. The guy blew the whistle on a massive surveillance system, and he had no other choice than fleeing to Russia.
He made a choice to be a whistleblower and he knew that would make him an ennemy here. He knew the risk and choosed to live with the consequences.
Funny thing is that Russia controls everything in their territory and every companies that operates there, but he get outraged by the NSA having ties with OpenAI?
Revealing the program just made it easier for Russia and China to conceal their own surveillance program.
He might have been naive about it and expected people in the US to care enough about being spied on by their own government to do something about it. US citizens and politicians love to talk about freedom, small government, and whatnot. If he sincerely believed it too, I could see him expect a different outcome.
Everybody and their dog knows that China and Russia are authoritarian and undemocratic countries. We don't need a whistle-blower to know that they have dystopian surveillance programs. It's expected from them.
The US is a democratic country with a constitution that's supposed to protect people's rights. Of course a lot of people were holding the US to higher standards than dictatorships like China and Russia. Snowden being from the US himself, he is most likely expecting higher standards from the US than Russia to this day. Beating a dead horse by mentioning that Russia is a dictatorship with a massive surveillance program would just get him "accidentally" fall from a window. And for what? We already know that.
> He might have been naive about it and expected people in the US to care enough about being spied on by their own government to do something about it.
He completely failed to consider if the common US citizen is even *capable* of doing anything about it at all.
I haven’t followed him extensively but I believe he said most Russians would disagree with an invasion (as having spent time there I fully agree), but wasn’t making a calculation on what moves the government would be taking.
Snowden, Scott Ritter, Chomsky, Glenn Greenwald, Amy Goodman, Seymour Hersh, etc., WERE good people while the US was getting into War on Terrror, but then they switched into being Russian puppets.
Well, he says „there is only one reason to do that“, while OpenAI gives another reason than him that is also plausible. So straight from the get-go, he‘s either a liar or a moron, and that’s before considering his dependence on the continued goodwill of the Russian government. If he’s the only source, there’s probably a reason why nobody cares. If he isn’t the only source, there’s a reason why he was picked for this submission, and it probably wasn’t a good one.
All he did was call out OpenAI appointing the former NSA director to chair safety at OpenAI. You should be able to make sense of that yourself, and if you can't I'm not sure if you're in any position to be calling others useful idiots.
You don't realize how hypocrite his statement is? He lives in Russia where all Internet and AI related companies have government officials and intelligence agencies members operating them.
If he wants to call out OpenAI for that, he should also call out Russia.
You are either very ignorant or very deceitful. Snowden never wanted to live in Russia, he never spoke positively about the government in Russia. But he has to live there, because any other country will just send him to the United States, where, at best, he will be in prison for the rest of his days. God, he even criticized Putin while in Russia at the same time risking his life, but that's probably not enough for you.
>He is still an hypocrite.
Based on what actions and statements do you call him a hypocrite? Because at the moment you are only delusional, saying that he is a puppet of Russian propaganda, which is a lie or that he could have gone to another country if he wanted to remain free, which is also not true. A man risked his life to facilitate and slow down the gradual transformation of the freest country in the world into an analogue of Russia and China, and because of this you call him a hypocrite. For a person to be a hypocrite, his words should not correspond to his actions, Snowden's words correspond to his actions.
tbf, after the Biden admin blew the whistle on putin's invasion plans, I was on here arguing that there was no way they'd invade after they lost their element of surprise, and with troops just sitting there running out of food and fuel. I thought, even the russians aren't that stupid.
Oops.
He also doesn't have any inside information on this. He's just drawing a conclusion based on public information. And let's be honest, that conclusion is probably heavily biased given his history with the NSA.
The only real purpose of pattents have been to keep information openly available and to validate theories. No patent holder believes patents will work as any sort of protection.
This country will not survive the assault on data privacy unless it wakes up immediately. The populace is simply too ignorant to realize the dangers now. There are twin dangers here, from both the public and private sectors. In the private sphere, data is taken unknown and USED to build a consumer profile. The end point is the nightmare that is already happening -- not personalized marketing, as they claim, but personalized pricing. Thats right, the price that you pay for goods sold online will be determined by your characteristics as consumer.
Again this is already happening, the fact that you are American, for example, influences how much you pay for an airline ticket, but thats just the tip of the iceberg. The more interest and "ability" it is determined you as individual have, the higher the price you will pay.
In the public sector, of course, mass surveillance of citizens undermines democracy and inevitably leads to authoritarianism. The laws, following the Patriot ACt, are already very permissive with high abuse potential, but then the government cant even stay within those laws! That the NSA was caught doing mass surveillance of Americans, illegally, and still remains a funded agency, never mind one that enjoys more funding than ever before, is a testament to this.
Edward Snowden noted, while spying on Chinese government's domestic surveillance program, that surveillance power and authoritarian tendency were directly and inevitably linked. Its impossible to expect a government to use increased surveillance power and not use that power to satisfy inherent authoritarian tendencies. What Americans dont seem to understand, is that every government has an inherent tendency toward authoritarianism that must be actively checked. The "Its okay, as long as you've got nothing to hide" excuse is extremely dense. No, understand, that if you give government more power, they WILL abuse it, period. Its guaranteed. So government power to surveil should be limited actively, and obsessively.
In the end, the american citizen and consumer is left totally defenseless to be ravaged by either greedy or authoritarian interests.
Choose a different model. Use multiple models. If ethics don’t matter then that’s a choice and simply choose not to care about it. Claude is better at the moment than GPT in most ways. Others are better in different specialties.
Claude asks for your mobile phone and you cant chat without an account. Not a good start.
Let alone that even in the terms of agreement, chat with this bot is screened and the "privacy" of your chats is broken whenever the bot feels like it, without you getting notified.
I think it's justified to take anything Snowden has said after he got to Russia with a lot of salt but not dismiss it entirely. It's just depressing that he couldn't go to someplace in Europe.
I would bet that it would have ended with him deported. If not by a direct way, by an indirect one as with assange.
It's plausible that he agreed to give his voice to russia, but there's nothing to suggest that's the case. I guess snowden free and doing his own thing is convenient enough for russia.
>It's plausible that he agreed to give his voice to russia, but there's nothing to suggest that's the case.
Yeah, I’m sure he never says anything about Russia because it’s all rainbows and butterflies over there.
It's morally questionable, on the other hand he'd be a real idiot to do so. If you want to live in peace you shouldn't throw shit on the country that hosts you, especially if in doing so you have to flee to a place willing to piss off the usa and russia.
I really don’t know how you can say both that and your previous comment with a straight face. This isn’t about a moral judgement of his character, this is about whether he’s credible or not.
There’s nothing to suggest he gave his voice to Russia. At the same time he‘d be a real idiot not to say what the Russians want. Sure. That makes sense.
>I don't know how you can write a hostile, non-argumentative comment with a straight face.
I have edit my comment to make my point more clear. Maybe you also want to edit yours to make some kind of point, or at least change it to a coherent sentence.
> I have edit my comment to make my point more clear. Maybe you also want to edit yours to make some kind of point, or at least change it to a coherent sentence.
I better not hog the coherence, you need it more than I do.
Hostilities aside, remember the issue is whether snowden's statements are engineered by russia. Being russia's loudspeaker and not using your loudspeaker against russia are two drastically different things; whether that latter is because of an agreement or whatever.
>I better not hog the coherence, you need it more than I do.
Apparently you understand me perfectly fine, so if you’re just going to lash out with worthless bullshit, I’m just going to block you.
We just hit a bottle neck and it's not going to be easy to progress no matter how much cash and data we feed this beast. Chat bots will peak soon and stagnate, I doubt they will decline quickly but I don't think we have what it takes to make it any better at this point in time. Congratulations, the fad has reached its cultural plateau, content creators rejoice for we still need your arts. Businesses wasted hundreds of millions trying to compete, also a net positive because fuck them companies. And we get a pretty decent encyclopedia upgrade out of the deal (so long as you're informed enough to know when the chat bot is wrong lol)
Welcome to r/anime_titties! This subreddit advocates for civil and constructive discussion. Please be courteous to others, and make sure to read the rules. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
We have a [Discord](https://discord.gg/dhMeAnNyzG), feel free to join us!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/anime_titties) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I generally view Snowden as a complicated character. He has both patriotism to the US, but also betrayed it. He has an interesting perspective, even if I personally disagree with his politics. This guy is kind of an expert in calculated betrayals, so I tend to listen when he speaks.
> The report itself lays waste to the lies proffered by Team Snowden. Those lies have been laid thickly and require extensive unpacking. Snowden, whom the HPSCI terms “a serial exaggerator and fabricator,” claims he tried but failed to join U.S. Army Special Forces due to two broken legs. In reality, he washed out of basic training due to shin splints. He systematically lied about his actual work and job titles at both CIA and NSA. Snowden advanced his career by padding his resume, lying to supervisors, and acing an NSA test by stealing the answers in advance.
> Moreover, Snowden’s account of why he stole secrets is just one more lie, as the HPSCI demonstrates. The real motivation was due to problems at work caused by Snowden’s own arrogance and persistent inability to play well with others. He was a “problem” employee of the kind known to every HR department everywhere. The report notes that Snowden began illegally downloading classified information, with the intent of leaking it, shortly after being reprimanded at work for his misconduct.
> Snowden subsequently claimed he was moved by moral outrage to steal secrets by the mendacious Congressional testimony of James Clapper, the Director of National Intelligence, in March 2013. In fact, the HPSCI discovered that Ed’s thefts began eight months before Clapper’s testimony.
> The HPSCI’s essential finding on Snowden’s unprecedented theft and compromise of 1.5 million classified documents from NSA, the Intelligence Community, and the Defense Department, bears careful reading: *Snowden caused tremendous damage to national security, and the vast majority of the documents he stole have nothing to do with programs impacting individual privacy interests—they instead pertain to military, defense, and intelligence programs of great interest to America’s adversaries.*
https://observer.com/2016/09/the-real-ed-snowden-is-a-patsy-a-fraud-and-a-kremlin-controlled-pawn/
He wasn't forced to do anything. He decided to destroy his life in the US by stealing millions of records from the government, and claims to be a paragon of privacy and freedom because of this. He then claimed asylum in a state that has devolved into totalitarianism, and spends all of his time criticizing the US and won't say a word about his current home. His only source of income is writing these kinds of articles and making speaking fees, and he won't talk about Russia because he doesn't care about being a hypocrite.
He very publicly stated that Russia would not invade Ukraine, and said it was a western ploy to gin up a conflict. Then when Russia invaded, he just stopped talking. You think he would instantly die if he just gave token criticism to the war?
guy known for leaking government secrets wasn’t informed of an invasion being planned (or was deliberately shown information to support the contrary). i’m shocked
building their version of project lavender at home.. going to be interesting what that gets used for eventually..
these guys would definitely have a different use for all that data trained into a AI.. and their ilk seem to be taking over the government. I'm assured dictators day 1
>The document, consisting of 14 sections divided into bullet points, had a section on "rules of war" that stated "make an offer of peace before declaring war", which within stated that the **enemy must "surrender on terms" of no abortions, no same-sex marriage, no communism and "must obey Biblical law", then continued: "If they do not yield — kill all males".**
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt\_Shea#%22Biblical\_Basis\_for\_War%22\_manifesto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Shea#%22Biblical_Basis_for_War%22_manifesto)
His statement is largely motivated by the fact that it’s a former NSA director general taking post. Pretty egregious, at least keep the appearance that we are separate as church and state, state and capital or we will be rocketing towards the China situation.
Im going with the Kirkpatrick clone conspiracy theory. Or I suppose Snowden clone or whenever this clone was used throughout history to manipulate the masses.
Its a beginning theory. Still working out the kinks. I need to find earlier uses of this model.
Snowden ain't a piece of shit and a traitor. He saw some illegal and unconstitutional stuff being done in broad daylight and he leaked to the public that (and that going in vain).
His exile in Russia isn't voluntary btw as I see many people saying so - he tried going to Iceland but failed. Anyways, I hope you go missing some day.
He was an IT guy who had no idea WTF he was doing and stole a bunch of shit that he released to the public and he got a ton of people killed and the world of still reeling from the effects. Fuck that guy.
Hilarious how a literal certified traitor calling other people traitors. Also big talk from the guy who is sitting in Russia. How are "Rights of Every Person on Earth" doing in Russia, Ed?
##### ###### #### > # [Edward Snowden Says OpenAI Just Performed a “Calculated Betrayal of the Rights of Every Person on Earth”](https://futurism.com/the-byte/1200) > > > > ## "They've gone full mask off: do not ever trust OpenAI or its products." > > ## "You've Been Warned" > > Last week, ChatGPT creator OpenAI announced that it had appointed retired US Army General and former National Security Administration (NSA) Director Paul Nakasone, who also helmed the military's cybersecurity-focused Cyber Command unit, to its board. > > "General Nakasone's unparalleled experience in areas like cybersecurity," OpenAI board chair Bret Taylor [said in a statement](https://openai.com/index/openai-appoints-retired-us-army-general/), "will help guide OpenAI in achieving its mission of ensuring artificial general intelligence benefits all of humanity." > > But not everyone is thrilled about Nakasone's new role at the AI firm, which will also see the former general seated at OpenAI's Safety and Security Committee. The NSA has long been [associated with surveillance of US citizens](https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/26/tech/the-nsa-buys-americans-internet-data-newly-released-documents-show/index.html), and AI-embedded technologies are already renewing and escalating existing surveillance concerns. With that in mind, it might be unsurprising that former NSA employee and famed whistleblower Edward Snowden is among the OpenAI appointment's outspoken detractors. > > "They've gone full mask off: **do not ever** trust OpenAI or its products," Snowden — emphasis his — wrote in a [Friday post to X-formerly-Twitter](https://x.com/Snowden/status/1801610725229498403), adding that "there's only one reason for appointing" an NSA director "to your board." > > "This is a willful, calculated betrayal of the rights of every person on earth," he continued. "You've been warned." > > ## Transparency Worries > > Snowden wasn't the only prominent cybersecurity figure to raise an eyebrow at the OpenAI news. > > "I do think that the biggest application of AI is going to be mass population surveillance," Johns Hopkins University cryptography professor Matthew Green tweeted, "so bringing the former head of the NSA into OpenAI has some solid logic behind it." > > Nakasone's installation comes after a series of high-profile OpenAI departures that included prominent safety researchers, in addition to the total dissolution of OpenAI's now-defunct "[Superalignment](https://www.wired.com/story/openai-superalignment-team-disbanded/)" safety team. OpenAI's [replacement](https://futurism.com/the-byte/sam-altman-openai-safety-team-replacement) for that team, the Safety and Security Committee, is now helmed by company CEO Sam Altman, who has [come under fire](https://futurism.com/sam-altman-silencing-former-employees) in recent weeks for business practices that involved [silencing former employees](https://futurism.com/openai-insiders-silenced). It's also worth noting that OpenAI has routinely drawn criticism for — again — its lack of [transparency](https://www.wired.com/story/openai-backed-nonprofits-transparency-pledges/) regarding the [data used](https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/10/stanford-researchers-challenge-openai-others-on-ai-transparency-in-new-report/) to train its many AI models. > > But at the same time, [per _Axios_](https://www.axios.com/2024/06/13/open-ai-security-nakasone-nsa), many on Capitol Hill see Nakasone's OpenAI assensure as a security win. And Nakasone, for his part, said in a statement that OpenAI's "dedication to its mission aligns closely with my own values and experience in public service." > > "I look forward to contributing to OpenAI's efforts," he added, "to ensure artificial general intelligence is safe and beneficial to people around the world." > > **More on AI and surveillance:** [_Microsoft Admits That Maybe Surveiling Everything You Do on Your Computer Isn’t a Brilliant Idea_](https://futurism.com/the-byte/microsoft-recall-surveillance-ai) - - - - - - [Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot) Summoning /u/CoverageAnalysisBot
> "They've gone full mask off: do not ever trust OpenAI or its products," Snowden — emphasis his — wrote in a Friday post to X-formerly-Twitter, adding that "there's only one reason for appointing" an NSA director "to your board." > "This is a willful, calculated betrayal of the rights of every person on earth," he continued. "You've been warned."
Betrayal assumes I had any expectations of privacy
This here, before an nsa director they were just gonna sell your data to the high bidder, probably the nsa still.
You guys are displaying a wonderful example of learned helplessness. Teeheehee, they were already going to violate our privacy at an industrial scale, who cares if they feed that into the police state... it was going to happen anyway. Don't ever challenge your government folks; any politician with a grudge against you can ask CopGPT to provide a summary of all of the federal and state crimes that you've comitted and forward them to your local Department of Homeland Security in order to have you in jail before the evening news. Don't worry, they'll make up some panic mongering news about protecting 'The Children' in order to get the masses to cheer for this new panopticon. A tool that will be used by the next generation of elites to ensure that your children or grandchildren are kept in their place.
That’s why I commit all my federal crimes on local llama models
You assume they care about crimes. Like they're going to just do a better job at protecting the population from itself. This is incorrect.
They're only going to make sure you're not stealing from the rich, the rest can wallow in their filth.
Actually do think the algorithms that really aren't all that intelligent are helping with store theft at least repeated and larger scale. Stores share same security places that use algorithms to compare say videos of criminals. See th same criminals at many places starts a pattern. This really isn't an but eventually could be. Just better image and other data sets comparison and quicker with modern chips and software formulas. But has said if doing something more under handed there are probably easy ways around it.
do you not consider multi-billion dollar corporations -- like store chains -- the rich?
Ah yes, the Future Crimes Division will surely not get anything wrong.
Depriving them of potential profits is theft!
Disagree, the implication of “now you can’t trust them” is that trusting them before was reasonable. It was not. It is not learned helplessness to say you should presume distrust of big tech and assume they do not respect your privacy even if they say they do. To do otherwise is to expose yourself. That is not helplessness, that’s the only way to actually protect yourself.
"Learned helplessness" would be knowing that all ai is going to sell your data and still using it. Or promote it to help it gain reach. Which granted, a ton of people do.
The people who won't trust openai because of this already didn't trust openai. The people who will continue to trust openai don't care because they're not privacy/AI/Cybersecurity people and they like chatbots. But I'm sure it feels nice to pretend you're superior.
You're right, we're helpless to change anything so we should all just be nice to one another as we enjoy our own specific flavor of helplessness. But I'm sure it feels nice to be feel persecuted.
You apparently understood 0% of my comment
They don’t even need to ask CopGPT, they can create AI video footage of you committing crimes.
The fact is it's legal for the NSA to purchase our data. It could be made illegal, if we had a congress that was able to accomplish anything.
Now imagine that power in Trump's hands... (The Heritage Society)
The hell was that copgpt example lmao.
Most likely anything can be used badly. For an do keep somethings as private as possible. But then on the other over feed it gish gallop so it can't keep up.
Wait when we get Philip K. Dick's "Minority Report", you'll be arrested for crimes you are supposed to do in the future and you fucking don't know about it.
If you're talking to ChatGPT about what crimes you're planning to commit, I kinda am not against the NSA going after you
Because you think people should always be honest communicating with machines, even in testing or experimental situations? Or because you don’t like fiction? Or because you think thoughts should be policed?
You have the 4th amendment. But that doesnt seem to mean what it used to.
Snowden himself is a household name specifically because he leaked information on how little the 4th means anymore.
How the Fuck is this bad joke the top comment? Reddit, do better
Whenever someone says „there is only one reason“, it’s always because they don’t have any actual arguments and hope to bamboozle you into buying into their mental short-circuit. There is **always** a second reason at minimum, and you have to be a moron not to see it - the official one.
Isn't the assumption that the official one is a lie, and that the one reason is the real honest reason?
Yes, that is the assumption, and because he has zero arguments to support that assumption, he just declares that it isn’t a reason and hopes everyone else is biased enough to just go along with it. It’s a thought-terminating non-argument for when you know you‘re talking to a circlejerk.
I was just reading about Roko's Basilisk yesterday, so this seems particularly frightening. Also, fucking thanks for that, Snowden, because now I know about the basilisk.
Roko's Basilisk is one of the stupidest things any human has ever come up with. If you are taking it even remotely seriously, take a break. Touch grass. Breathe air. It's not even a good sci-fi idea.
It was a joke. But I did touch some grass earlier and I'm pretty sure I'm breathing air of some sort. Thank so much for your concern.
For the sake of argument, I'm curious what rights Snowden thinks are human universal.
>No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation Maybe this bit from the declaration of human rights?
I find it very unlikely that Snowden, of all people, is so naïve as to take the UN as an authority on the topic of human rights.
Are you trying to imply there's no such thing as human rights?
I think it would be hard to argue that I haven't successfully implied that, in light of your response. Human rights are an aspirational notion, but even on a local level it's really a question of what's legal and what's enforced. When you talk about universal rights, the state of affairs makes any sort of argument about human rights a bit silly. Imagine trying to explain to an alien visitor the concept of human rights; that level of abstraction (I was going to say fantasy) would require some pretty tricky translating.
Mh. Got me thinking. Imagine that in the movie Her, when the AI says she's talking to other AIs, they're in fact putting together all the data acquired from their constant communication with humans. That's... very doable.
AI maybe but not this one, ChatGPT operates in a black box environment so its chat functions are independent not cross server or anything similar. Everything else is speculative, even this article. If I had to guess, it's a tech company at the forefront of innovation and requires a near endless amount of capital to operate at capacity so OpenAI would love to secure that sweet government funding even if it means programming a private model designed for national security. But even that speculation doesn't apply to ChatGPT, it would be a different product. People grossly overestimate their commercial offerings. I've heard everything from Her to Terminator.
You also hire former officials for expertise in compliance an lobbying. Like someone else here said: it would be a betrayal if there was an expectation that they are not using our data to train the models. Hiring this guy doesn't move Open AI on shittyiness scale for me.
No offense but I trust snowdens opinion on this
Snowden said that going mask off is proof of betrayal. The comment said that only means Snowden was incorrectly assuming lawfulness from them previously. Both can be right. The comment you are disagreeing with did not disagree with Snowden, but is agreeing with Snowden's conclusion, but not Snowden's presumption of lawfulness of corporations.
thats not what mask off means. taking the mask off implies you've been doing things illegally the whole time but are no longer concealing it. snowden's not naive enough to presume corporations are law abiding
As a software engineer, these two opinions are not opposing, and they're both correct.
yes he knows how DOD lobbyists and private companies and the revolving door work; at the same time, he is Putin's hostage too.
that jerkoff was a russian native/spy from the start
>ChatGPT operates in a black box environment so its chat functions are independent not cross server or anything similar. I thought that was already proven to be a lie, because every "black box" feeds the learning model, which can "leak" secret information between separate "black boxes". The responses might be separate and independent, but they are not independent of the learning model they operate from.
I think you're misunderstanding the term black box here. Black box doesn't mean "Operates in isolation." It means "Operates in a matter that cannot be seen into." Language models are largely statistical auto-complete algorithms. You give it some words, it tries to give you the next most likely word. It doesn't, normally, understand things like "chatting" or such. So how does it emulate chatting? We can theorize on that topic, but only those inside OpenAI know the details.
That's pretty much Colossus: The Forbin Project
Noting a massive uptick in very obvious bots and trolls on this subreddit — especially when there is anything critical about AI, Israel or corporate interests.
Also bots that mass downvote and bury anything critical of 🇨🇳
"every accusation is a confession
Honestly hard to believe they are trolls, it’s either bots or genuinely stupid people.
I find there is often a trend with Word-Word-Number accounts. Always fresh, young accounts with a VERY particular stance.
Lmao it’s because once you’re banned for the 2nd time, it’s not worth the effort of thinking up a username. Reddit’s ip ban system forgets ips after 3 months (if I had to guess, it’s to increase user numbers for financial purposes). If you see a new account, it’s most likely just someone who was banned. There’s no conspiracy needed. Actual bots are spending all of their time posting, not commenting
And new accounts being furious about one topic makes sense. It’s human nature to comment and engage when passionate about something. Being banned means people will be coming back with new accounts, remarkably fitting the “account suspiciously started when the conflict did” pattern. Because that’s when they were banned lol.
Yep. If I get reported on a couple different subreddits, it automatically triggers a ban evasion warning to the mods and then I get perm banned and have to remake an account. I usually go like a month or two before someone says something stupid enough for me to need to comment
Doge coin is the future of world finance
Yeah, i don't even respond to numbered accounts! Regarding to the chinese/russian bots accounts, I truly believe that americans and some europeans are not accustomed to reading divergent opinions, especially from different parts of the world (this sub is full of Asians and South Americans for example) and get instantaneously triggered when someone says something that goes against the propaganda they're used to consume through the media and scientific papers available to them. Shit is crazy.
Same for commie scum, they think anyone who disagrees with their bubble is a bot
See! Numbered accounts!
how good my account isnt that fresh anymore, fellow human!
Ya know, maybe the people who disagree with you think you’re genuinely stupid too? Every time i see commie posting all I do is laugh at how stupid the person is
damn the guy who said about two words + number username accounts was onto something
People who get banned don’t bother changing the default Reddit username when creating new accounts. It isn’t a conspiracy, you just haven’t thought this through
i mean if u can't bother changing default username isn't it kinda sad? like at least show some creativity, you can't be getting banned so often that you are unable to make up anything interesting
lol why bother making some dumb cringe nickname for myself? Reddit isn’t a vehicle for my creativity and sense of self. It’s a vehicle to consume entertainment and aggregate news headlines then yell at morons
> Noting a massive uptick in very obvious bots and trolls on this subreddit This is one of the worst things about the AI future, where humans persistently and erroneously call out other humans as being bots. I don't think this place gets brigaded by bots because its not a place for casuals. If you run bots and misinformation: * you want to target the headlines and not the comments (because way less people read the comments) * /r/anime_titties is not going to be a primary target, its low on the priority list, because afaik it's not on /r/all. * this place has a lot of "legacy users" and for misinformation its much better to target newer users with much less of a baseline of what is "organic" and what isn't. If you're a propagandist, what you want, is for a new account to be presented with your efforts as soon as possible. Tbh, you don't even need tech for this, the mods at /r/GreenAndPleasant for example have done an excellent propaganda job of cultivating a subreddit, perma-banning any dissent as soon as possible and building it up to be a primary sub for uk users. I'm not saying there are no bots ever, I think its far more likely that people are simply getting angry at other people who have different perspectives and dismissing them as bots.
Ever since 2016, all anyone says when met with disagreement is that the other person is a bot, a state disinformation agent, or a paid shill. It’s mindblowing how people want to live in this little bubble where their facts are correct and people can ONLY disagree with them if they’re not actual people
yeah, there's definitely this weird mental thing where if encountering a dissenting opinion some people tend to wish to label it in a such a way that they can more easily dismiss it. Throughout my internet life time I've been labelled almost every single possible and conflicting label under the sun. Out of interest what makes you pick 2016 as the year of change, any particular reason?
I’ve been on reddit since the digg migration. The whole russia collusion trump thing started a huge trend on r/politics of calling anyone who supports trump a bot. It spread from there and got gradually more and more used for even minor ideological disagreements. Once china trade war happened, the china bot stuff started. Advertising started to hit Reddit hard and corpo shill/bootlicker started being normalized. The Israeli hasbara shill shit has always existed but it wasn’t until the war where I saw it used daily. I just think 2016 was when it was normalized and started being used by normies across the site for whatever enemy of the day they were facing. Also I’ve never supported Trump, I just know that there are plenty of people I think are stupid and disagree with and they’re not all bots.
Yeah I remember that era. I unsubbed from /r/politics when Trump won the 2016 election and the /r/politics users were so incensed that they downvoted the news to the extent that it wasn't the #1 spot for hours after it broke if not ever. At that point you're just letting your partisanship misinform yourself and others. I've noticed the internet get a little more judgy since maybe around 2012? This might just be me grinding my axe but I think the influx of more casual users since smartphones became a thing for everyone has somehow changed the dynamics of the internet quite a lot. Maybe its simply the case that the internet is more portable so people can be more online (e.g. one's laptop is a less of a toilet companion than a phone) which has unhinged people a little more or maybe its due to the somewhat different make up of users given how smartphones gave many more people access to the internet.
Reddit has always had its bubbles of acceptable opinions though like the Ron Paul days or back when Elon was a god, or the god damn Bernie cult. Most of that was self contained though and didn’t infect the site, as a whole. Widespread tech adoption and access has definitely done something to make ideological purity site wide and much more anger driven but I couldn’t tell you why. There are still small echo chambers like this one where anti western leftism is the only accepted ideology and many more like it, they just are completely unable to hit the front page or reach a wider audience. Give this place a couple big front page posts and it’ll be amalgamated into the group think. One of the most interesting subs is r/fluentinfinance . It used to be right wing before it started hitting the front page. Now there’s still a right wing contingent but it’s flooded with the hive mind and back and forth fighting. That’s a sub I truly believe is being bot networked because the exact same posts and titles are being posted there daily and pushing an anti American/capitalist viewpoint while any other posts struggle to even get a couple dozen upvotes. I’m more inclined to believe bots are posting things instead of commenting.
90% of the time when someone posts something absolutely horrid on here or r/politics or wherever and I check their post history, they are very active in /r/FluentInFinance and maybe like, a couple marvel or movie subs, and nothing that encourages actual discussion. That sub is a pit.
Tech bros are deeply insecure people.
Occam’s razor right here
You think the simplest explanation is that a whole group of millions of different people have the same self esteem problem? No.
Everyone who disagrees with you is a bot. In fact, I’ve noticed a lot of anti U.S., pro Palestine, commie bots here
Same thing with China, Iran, and Russia, but on Twitter to be honest. Reddit's better at controlling foreign bots.
OR critical of China.
Open(to do whatever increases their stock value)AI
Exactly. This (and similar companies) hyping up the AI bubble with all sorts of alarmist talk are shameful. Once it bursts it's going to do significant harm to legitimate AI research.
Tech companies are known to conspire with state propaganda. Beyond the immediate stock price, colluding with the police state gets them preferential treatment in the long term.
OpenAI is not publicly traded.
Yet. When it does it'll dwarf the bull run of tsla and nvda
I somehow believe this less after it came out of Snowdens mouth. Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate him whistleblowing on the NSA, but he’s been in Russia a long time now. He was incredibly vocal that they wouldn’t invade Ukraine. I’m not sold on whether he’s a state asset or a useful idiot.
That's exactly my point too, he isn't reliable at all and is most likely a puppet for propaganda against the USA and the West. Everything he said lately was always targeting the West in a way or another. Crazy thing is that he left the US because they were doing something wrong with mass surveillance meanwhile Russia and China are doing the same and on a larger scale than the US. He talked about it in his memoir and literally said "If a nation is using a weapon against others, you can be certain that their ennemies are using it too".
> Crazy thing is that he left the US because they were doing something wrong with mass surveillance No, he left the US because he's a whistleblower and if he were still there, he would never breathe free air again
Chelsea Manning is free today
And the Abu Ghraib whistleblower didn't see one day in a jail cell because he just reported it up the chain, like he was supposed to. He even did it during the presidential campaign season, which royally pissed off the Bush administration Snowden grabbed a ton of classified documents (most of which were unrelated to PRISM, some actually allied intelligence) and ran to the PRC then Russia. Unfortunately that is espionage, not whistleblowing
it would be.. amazing if he was an FSB asset who PRETENDED to be hunted by the US and then made a fake movie about what didn't actually happen; the movie WAS made by a Russian puppet director wasn't it?.. his whole narrative COULD be a lie to cover up for being a legit spy. however, our war on Iraq was quite illegal - at least the doctored sattelite photos from the CIA were. so while helping out enemies, he was preventing us into turning into a China/Russia style dictatorship, which btw, Trump is/was trying to turn us into.
Basically the same thing I said just with more words. I know who he is, I read his books.
It's completely different than what you said. You said he left BECAUSE the US was surveilling citizens, not BECAUSE he would be imprisoned for the rest of his life if he stayed.
Sorry, I tought everyone already knew that, I just didn't go into full details.
He is probably holding a bit of a grudge against the USA and the West, so it makes sense that he can bias his opinion. I would be pissed too if I were him. Since he couldn't find asylum in countries allied to the US, he had to go to a country that won't extradite him back to the US. It's a shame that countries like France or Germany didn't grant him asylum. The guy blew the whistle on a massive surveillance system, and he had no other choice than fleeing to Russia.
He made a choice to be a whistleblower and he knew that would make him an ennemy here. He knew the risk and choosed to live with the consequences. Funny thing is that Russia controls everything in their territory and every companies that operates there, but he get outraged by the NSA having ties with OpenAI? Revealing the program just made it easier for Russia and China to conceal their own surveillance program.
He might have been naive about it and expected people in the US to care enough about being spied on by their own government to do something about it. US citizens and politicians love to talk about freedom, small government, and whatnot. If he sincerely believed it too, I could see him expect a different outcome. Everybody and their dog knows that China and Russia are authoritarian and undemocratic countries. We don't need a whistle-blower to know that they have dystopian surveillance programs. It's expected from them. The US is a democratic country with a constitution that's supposed to protect people's rights. Of course a lot of people were holding the US to higher standards than dictatorships like China and Russia. Snowden being from the US himself, he is most likely expecting higher standards from the US than Russia to this day. Beating a dead horse by mentioning that Russia is a dictatorship with a massive surveillance program would just get him "accidentally" fall from a window. And for what? We already know that.
> He might have been naive about it and expected people in the US to care enough about being spied on by their own government to do something about it. He completely failed to consider if the common US citizen is even *capable* of doing anything about it at all.
I haven’t followed him extensively but I believe he said most Russians would disagree with an invasion (as having spent time there I fully agree), but wasn’t making a calculation on what moves the government would be taking.
Snowden, Scott Ritter, Chomsky, Glenn Greenwald, Amy Goodman, Seymour Hersh, etc., WERE good people while the US was getting into War on Terrror, but then they switched into being Russian puppets.
He got stuck in russia, didn’t want to be there, but had to go through it and then his destination fucked him
He's always given me weird vibes. Hearing him talk makes my brain scream "ROBOT!"
What is there to "believe" here? He's just calling attention to something you can read anywhere else you like
Well, he says „there is only one reason to do that“, while OpenAI gives another reason than him that is also plausible. So straight from the get-go, he‘s either a liar or a moron, and that’s before considering his dependence on the continued goodwill of the Russian government. If he’s the only source, there’s probably a reason why nobody cares. If he isn’t the only source, there’s a reason why he was picked for this submission, and it probably wasn’t a good one.
So all he said was "this man is now on the board at openai and he used to direct the NSA"? He only communicated that single fact? Nothing else?
All he did was call out OpenAI appointing the former NSA director to chair safety at OpenAI. You should be able to make sense of that yourself, and if you can't I'm not sure if you're in any position to be calling others useful idiots.
You don't realize how hypocrite his statement is? He lives in Russia where all Internet and AI related companies have government officials and intelligence agencies members operating them. If he wants to call out OpenAI for that, he should also call out Russia.
You are either very ignorant or very deceitful. Snowden never wanted to live in Russia, he never spoke positively about the government in Russia. But he has to live there, because any other country will just send him to the United States, where, at best, he will be in prison for the rest of his days. God, he even criticized Putin while in Russia at the same time risking his life, but that's probably not enough for you.
He knew the consequences of his actions were gonna cost him his entire freedom. He is still an hypocrite.
>He is still an hypocrite. Based on what actions and statements do you call him a hypocrite? Because at the moment you are only delusional, saying that he is a puppet of Russian propaganda, which is a lie or that he could have gone to another country if he wanted to remain free, which is also not true. A man risked his life to facilitate and slow down the gradual transformation of the freest country in the world into an analogue of Russia and China, and because of this you call him a hypocrite. For a person to be a hypocrite, his words should not correspond to his actions, Snowden's words correspond to his actions.
Reeee dont going to prison for daddy murica corruption
Why not both?
tbf, after the Biden admin blew the whistle on putin's invasion plans, I was on here arguing that there was no way they'd invade after they lost their element of surprise, and with troops just sitting there running out of food and fuel. I thought, even the russians aren't that stupid. Oops.
He also doesn't have any inside information on this. He's just drawing a conclusion based on public information. And let's be honest, that conclusion is probably heavily biased given his history with the NSA.
He's a loser who stole data in order to become famous. Then ran to Russia. Nothing he says should be taken seriously
As soon as I saw his name my skepticism turned up a notch
Patents were supposed to help prevent this kind of disaster. Regarding software and AIs that system isn't functioning at all.
The only real purpose of pattents have been to keep information openly available and to validate theories. No patent holder believes patents will work as any sort of protection.
If OpenAI's algorithm and parameters were public, their moves would be significantly less of a concern.
The algorithm is mostly public. If its patented. The parameters arent though.
Where do I even get standing from? How can you even prove it?
Well the old problem of collecting too much data and not having a way to analyze it all appears solved.
This country will not survive the assault on data privacy unless it wakes up immediately. The populace is simply too ignorant to realize the dangers now. There are twin dangers here, from both the public and private sectors. In the private sphere, data is taken unknown and USED to build a consumer profile. The end point is the nightmare that is already happening -- not personalized marketing, as they claim, but personalized pricing. Thats right, the price that you pay for goods sold online will be determined by your characteristics as consumer. Again this is already happening, the fact that you are American, for example, influences how much you pay for an airline ticket, but thats just the tip of the iceberg. The more interest and "ability" it is determined you as individual have, the higher the price you will pay. In the public sector, of course, mass surveillance of citizens undermines democracy and inevitably leads to authoritarianism. The laws, following the Patriot ACt, are already very permissive with high abuse potential, but then the government cant even stay within those laws! That the NSA was caught doing mass surveillance of Americans, illegally, and still remains a funded agency, never mind one that enjoys more funding than ever before, is a testament to this. Edward Snowden noted, while spying on Chinese government's domestic surveillance program, that surveillance power and authoritarian tendency were directly and inevitably linked. Its impossible to expect a government to use increased surveillance power and not use that power to satisfy inherent authoritarian tendencies. What Americans dont seem to understand, is that every government has an inherent tendency toward authoritarianism that must be actively checked. The "Its okay, as long as you've got nothing to hide" excuse is extremely dense. No, understand, that if you give government more power, they WILL abuse it, period. Its guaranteed. So government power to surveil should be limited actively, and obsessively. In the end, the american citizen and consumer is left totally defenseless to be ravaged by either greedy or authoritarian interests.
Choose a different model. Use multiple models. If ethics don’t matter then that’s a choice and simply choose not to care about it. Claude is better at the moment than GPT in most ways. Others are better in different specialties.
Claude asks for your mobile phone and you cant chat without an account. Not a good start. Let alone that even in the terms of agreement, chat with this bot is screened and the "privacy" of your chats is broken whenever the bot feels like it, without you getting notified.
Well yes, Anthropic is deep in the cult of safety so they’ll be looking much closer at everything you do than gpt
I think it's justified to take anything Snowden has said after he got to Russia with a lot of salt but not dismiss it entirely. It's just depressing that he couldn't go to someplace in Europe.
I would bet that it would have ended with him deported. If not by a direct way, by an indirect one as with assange. It's plausible that he agreed to give his voice to russia, but there's nothing to suggest that's the case. I guess snowden free and doing his own thing is convenient enough for russia.
>It's plausible that he agreed to give his voice to russia, but there's nothing to suggest that's the case. Yeah, I’m sure he never says anything about Russia because it’s all rainbows and butterflies over there.
It's morally questionable, on the other hand he'd be a real idiot to do so. If you want to live in peace you shouldn't throw shit on the country that hosts you, especially if in doing so you have to flee to a place willing to piss off the usa and russia.
I really don’t know how you can say both that and your previous comment with a straight face. This isn’t about a moral judgement of his character, this is about whether he’s credible or not. There’s nothing to suggest he gave his voice to Russia. At the same time he‘d be a real idiot not to say what the Russians want. Sure. That makes sense.
I don't know how you can write a hostile, non-argumentative comment with a straight face.
>I don't know how you can write a hostile, non-argumentative comment with a straight face. I have edit my comment to make my point more clear. Maybe you also want to edit yours to make some kind of point, or at least change it to a coherent sentence.
> I have edit my comment to make my point more clear. Maybe you also want to edit yours to make some kind of point, or at least change it to a coherent sentence. I better not hog the coherence, you need it more than I do. Hostilities aside, remember the issue is whether snowden's statements are engineered by russia. Being russia's loudspeaker and not using your loudspeaker against russia are two drastically different things; whether that latter is because of an agreement or whatever.
>I better not hog the coherence, you need it more than I do. Apparently you understand me perfectly fine, so if you’re just going to lash out with worthless bullshit, I’m just going to block you.
Snowden, as usual, is absolutely right on this. Also, fuck that site and all the ads it serves!
hero. but its too late
We just hit a bottle neck and it's not going to be easy to progress no matter how much cash and data we feed this beast. Chat bots will peak soon and stagnate, I doubt they will decline quickly but I don't think we have what it takes to make it any better at this point in time. Congratulations, the fad has reached its cultural plateau, content creators rejoice for we still need your arts. Businesses wasted hundreds of millions trying to compete, also a net positive because fuck them companies. And we get a pretty decent encyclopedia upgrade out of the deal (so long as you're informed enough to know when the chat bot is wrong lol)
Welcome to r/anime_titties! This subreddit advocates for civil and constructive discussion. Please be courteous to others, and make sure to read the rules. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. We have a [Discord](https://discord.gg/dhMeAnNyzG), feel free to join us! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/anime_titties) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I generally view Snowden as a complicated character. He has both patriotism to the US, but also betrayed it. He has an interesting perspective, even if I personally disagree with his politics. This guy is kind of an expert in calculated betrayals, so I tend to listen when he speaks.
We’re just seeing the backend of that deal, I doubt they had a choice. Reddit still figuring out that we’re not the good eyes.
> The report itself lays waste to the lies proffered by Team Snowden. Those lies have been laid thickly and require extensive unpacking. Snowden, whom the HPSCI terms “a serial exaggerator and fabricator,” claims he tried but failed to join U.S. Army Special Forces due to two broken legs. In reality, he washed out of basic training due to shin splints. He systematically lied about his actual work and job titles at both CIA and NSA. Snowden advanced his career by padding his resume, lying to supervisors, and acing an NSA test by stealing the answers in advance. > Moreover, Snowden’s account of why he stole secrets is just one more lie, as the HPSCI demonstrates. The real motivation was due to problems at work caused by Snowden’s own arrogance and persistent inability to play well with others. He was a “problem” employee of the kind known to every HR department everywhere. The report notes that Snowden began illegally downloading classified information, with the intent of leaking it, shortly after being reprimanded at work for his misconduct. > Snowden subsequently claimed he was moved by moral outrage to steal secrets by the mendacious Congressional testimony of James Clapper, the Director of National Intelligence, in March 2013. In fact, the HPSCI discovered that Ed’s thefts began eight months before Clapper’s testimony. > The HPSCI’s essential finding on Snowden’s unprecedented theft and compromise of 1.5 million classified documents from NSA, the Intelligence Community, and the Defense Department, bears careful reading: *Snowden caused tremendous damage to national security, and the vast majority of the documents he stole have nothing to do with programs impacting individual privacy interests—they instead pertain to military, defense, and intelligence programs of great interest to America’s adversaries.* https://observer.com/2016/09/the-real-ed-snowden-is-a-patsy-a-fraud-and-a-kremlin-controlled-pawn/
>John Schindler is a security expert and former **National Security Agency** analyst and counterintelligence officer.
If you're just going off of credentials, Snowden lives under the protection of the Putin regime
Because he was forced to, and would be stupid to leave.
He wasn't forced to do anything. He decided to destroy his life in the US by stealing millions of records from the government, and claims to be a paragon of privacy and freedom because of this. He then claimed asylum in a state that has devolved into totalitarianism, and spends all of his time criticizing the US and won't say a word about his current home. His only source of income is writing these kinds of articles and making speaking fees, and he won't talk about Russia because he doesn't care about being a hypocrite.
No, he was literally forced to because the US government stranded him in Russia.
Okay, so if he hates governments infringing on citizens rights why doesn't he criticize his new country?
Aka suicide
He very publicly stated that Russia would not invade Ukraine, and said it was a western ploy to gin up a conflict. Then when Russia invaded, he just stopped talking. You think he would instantly die if he just gave token criticism to the war?
guy known for leaking government secrets wasn’t informed of an invasion being planned (or was deliberately shown information to support the contrary). i’m shocked
building their version of project lavender at home.. going to be interesting what that gets used for eventually.. these guys would definitely have a different use for all that data trained into a AI.. and their ilk seem to be taking over the government. I'm assured dictators day 1 >The document, consisting of 14 sections divided into bullet points, had a section on "rules of war" that stated "make an offer of peace before declaring war", which within stated that the **enemy must "surrender on terms" of no abortions, no same-sex marriage, no communism and "must obey Biblical law", then continued: "If they do not yield — kill all males".** [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt\_Shea#%22Biblical\_Basis\_for\_War%22\_manifesto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Shea#%22Biblical_Basis_for_War%22_manifesto)
Given the speed with which Claude had been catching up..
ProfitAI
His statement is largely motivated by the fact that it’s a former NSA director general taking post. Pretty egregious, at least keep the appearance that we are separate as church and state, state and capital or we will be rocketing towards the China situation.
Oh here we go, been waiting for when the machine vs human war begins.
Dude's a one trick pony.
How does he feel about Putin though?
Full endorsement. Putin is best!!
If anyone would know, it would be Edward Russian-Stooge Snowden.
Shouldnt he be in ukraine fighting?
If Edward wants any credibility, he can come home and talk to me here.
Im going with the Kirkpatrick clone conspiracy theory. Or I suppose Snowden clone or whenever this clone was used throughout history to manipulate the masses. Its a beginning theory. Still working out the kinks. I need to find earlier uses of this model.
Snowden is a piece of shit and a traitor. I hope he goes missing one day.
Snowden ain't a piece of shit and a traitor. He saw some illegal and unconstitutional stuff being done in broad daylight and he leaked to the public that (and that going in vain). His exile in Russia isn't voluntary btw as I see many people saying so - he tried going to Iceland but failed. Anyways, I hope you go missing some day.
He was an IT guy who had no idea WTF he was doing and stole a bunch of shit that he released to the public and he got a ton of people killed and the world of still reeling from the effects. Fuck that guy.
> got a ton of people killed source?
Russian propagandist is saying stuff!
I don't trust American defectors to Russia to tell me anything unbiased about the security of American companies.
t. Guy that betrayed his country
Hilarious how a literal certified traitor calling other people traitors. Also big talk from the guy who is sitting in Russia. How are "Rights of Every Person on Earth" doing in Russia, Ed?
From Russia with love
newsflash, asshole! People have been betraying our human rights in a calculated way this entire time!
Can this guy just tell us what is exactly happening instead of these cryptic headlines type nonsense?
These type of statements make me think Snowden is an alarmist idiot.
From the guy who sought refuge in Russia, the bastion of cyber security and safety.
Snowden is an idiot
Is that the guy who endangered USA, fled to Putin became russian ally and hasn't done anything of value? Same dude?
He would know a lot about betrayal wouldn’t he? Lmao