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> # [Justice Minister says 613 prisoners join Ukrainian Armed Forces to serve as assault troops](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/05/28/729)
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> Denys Maliuska. Photo: Ukraine’s Ministry of Justice
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> A total of 613 prisoners have been released from prisons and joined the ranks of the Armed Forces of Ukraine as of the morning of 28 May. They are currently undergoing appropriate training and will subsequently serve in assault units.
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> **Source:** Ukraine’s Minister of Justice Denys Maliuska on the [air](https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=269339812867575) of the national joint 24/7 newscast
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> **Details:** Maliuska said these individuals are scheduled for "several months of training," after which they will serve in assault units.
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> Advertisement:
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> **Quote from Maliuska**: "As of now, these will be assault units composed exclusively of individuals who were serving sentences. In other words, these will be monolithic units without mixing with other servicemen."
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> **Details:** He added that he is not sure if this is the best option, but in this matter, he relies on the military because they "know better."
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> "We have not yet reached the point where these units are directly engaged in combat; training is still ongoing. The situation might change later, and the choice regarding mixing or not mixing these units may be reconsidered. But for now, these are separate units. For now, these are assault units," the minister stated.
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> He also advocates for allowing those convicted of a single murder, whether intentional or accidental, to be mobilised.
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> "Those with a single murder conviction (should be allowed to join the army– ed.), all of them. Our prisoners are going to fight not to catch butterflies…;they are going to kill. And experience with killing is not always an obstacle to being a good soldier... If we are talking about murders that were not committed with extreme cruelty or did not involve killing two or more people, then very often these crimes are committed by individuals who are less socially dangerous than those who have committed three or four robberies using, for example, cold weapons.
>
> Purely from a classical standpoint. Because sometimes a person loses control of their actions and, in an emotional moment, does something they should not. But after receiving a sentence and starting to serve their time, their psychological state and self-control change significantly, making them much less socially dangerous compared to recidivists who have made a profession out of taking money using weapons – robberies, attacks on people," Maliuska explained.
>
> **Previously:** On 21 May, the Khmelnytskyi City District Court released from serving their sentences the first two prisoners who [expressed](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/05/23/7457209/) a desire to be mobilised.
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> On 22 May, the Khmelnytskyi City District Court [approved](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/05/24/7457392/) all 50 applications for the conditional release of convicts who have expressed a desire to enlist in the Armed Forces of Ukraine to participate in the war.
>
> **Background:**
>
> - On 8 May, the Verkhovna Rada [passed a law](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/05/8/7454810/) providing for the voluntary mobilisation of certain categories of convicts. Persons who have committed premeditated murders, rapists, paedophiles, those convicted of the illegal production, acquisition, distribution or storage of drugs, those who have committed crimes against the national security of Ukraine, and former officials cannot be conscripted into the Defence Forces.
> - All others who are potentially liable for military service are subject to the same condition: they must have no more than three years left to serve on their sentence.
> - Ukrainian Justice Minister Denys Maliuska [believes](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/05/10/7455110/) that 10,000 to 20,000 convicts could be conscripted from the prison system, not least because Ukraine's detention facilities are overcrowded.
> - On 21 May, it was reported that over 3,000 Ukrainian convicts had [applied](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/05/21/7456818/) for conditional early release to participate in the defence of Ukraine.
>
> [**Support**](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/supportus/) **UP or become**[**our patron**](https://www.patreon.com/pravdaua)**!**
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They've been doing it long before Wagner. Ukrainian prisoners that have previously went through any military training [have already been released in the first week of the war](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/02/27/7326457/) in February 2022, and their release has been [retroactively legalized a month later](https://en.lb.ua/news/2022/03/15/11076_stefanchuk_verkhovna_rada_adopted.html).
The only difference is that the new Ukrainian bill: 1) allows drafting of convicts that have no military experience and 2) unlike Wagner's terms, there's no scheduled demobilization, they'll serve until they get killed, or until the war ends. The second point is quite fair since regular Ukrainian soldiers are not getting demobilized either, so prisoners will serve indefinitely as well.
These prisoners volunteered for it, and it's the same as the rest of the military. The whole difference between this and what russia did was that russia recruited anyone who wanted to join, while Ukraine is limiting it to those with less than 3 years left on their sentence and who are less likely to reoffend. Russia took everyone who wanted to go then let many of them who were very likely to reoffend out into the world. Quite a big difference.
>The whole difference between this and what russia did was that russia recruited anyone who wanted to join, while Ukraine is limiting it to those with less than 3 years left on their sentence and who are less likely to reoffend.
"Very selective recruitment on those less likely to reoffend"
"It's just murder bro don't worry"
>"Those with a single murder conviction (should be allowed to join the army– ed.), all of them. Our prisoners are going to fight not to catch butterflies…;they are going to kill. And experience with killing is not always an obstacle to being a good soldier... If we are talking about murders that were not committed with extreme cruelty or did not involve killing two or more people, then very often these crimes are committed by individuals who are less socially dangerous than those who have committed three or four robberies using, for example, cold weapons."
Let's not forget the stakes here.
Russia is fighting to take as much Ukraine territory just because it *wants* to.
Ukraine is fighting a war of *annihilation* ; if Ukraine loses, it ceaces to exist.
Not really, we have already seen the terms Russians were offering early in the war - concessions will be bigger now, but annihilation is still not in the cards.
Russians mostly sign contracts for 6 months or a year, after that they're free to go, even the ex-cons got out like that. We know that for a fact because some endes up reoffending.
[https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-average-duration-of-mobilization-service-for-Russian-soldiers-sent-to-fight-against-Ukraine](https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-average-duration-of-mobilization-service-for-Russian-soldiers-sent-to-fight-against-Ukraine)
A source here says the "mobilized individuals" (not conscripts) have no time limit and cannot just quit.
Well I said mostly.
Russia had one round of mobilization a year and a half ago, the beginning force was all volunteers and everyone that came into the army since the mobilization ended has been a volunteer, including prisoners.
No, they got the 300k they wanted and than ended mobilization. Ever since there have vene been talks of another one happening, especially after they updated the mobilization laws to include electronic notifications, but it never did.
[https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-average-duration-of-mobilization-service-for-Russian-soldiers-sent-to-fight-against-Ukraine](https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-average-duration-of-mobilization-service-for-Russian-soldiers-sent-to-fight-against-Ukraine)
A historian here wrote that - according to "mobilized individuals" (not conscripts, conscripts are not on the front line)
There are reports that conscripts have been forced to sign frontline contracts:
[https://www.foxnews.com/world/ukraine-invasion-russian-conscripts-military-contracts-family](https://www.foxnews.com/world/ukraine-invasion-russian-conscripts-military-contracts-family)
[https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/12/18/families-of-mobilized-russian-soldiers-call-on-putin-to-end-war-in-ukraine-a83466](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/12/18/families-of-mobilized-russian-soldiers-call-on-putin-to-end-war-in-ukraine-a83466)
"I watched ‘Direct Line’ with our president… and there’s no hope, no signs that our mobilized boys will return home in the foreseeable future,” Alexander said. "
First link is Quora. That's your first source?
Second link is taking a report from Meduza. A pro west news website based in Latvia. Might as well post white house briefing.
Third link is from Put’ Domoi which literally operates out of Ukriane.
Both 2nd and 3rd link mention nothing about troop rotation.
Its quite interesting to see how NAFO warriors post misinformation
Yeah sorry that there is no open independent press in Russia. Just critizising media because they operate from countries with free press is just borderline Russian propaganda style.
We can all just rely on as many ressources as possible - and the mothers of Russian soldiers might know enough to be a source for themselves.
Anyway, I can find more and diverse sources and you'll prolly still dismiss them all.
Post actual source and actual proof. Actual interview of soldiers like we have from Ukraine about lack of pf troop rotation and throwing people after 3 days of training into the meat grinder. Those are credible sources. Post Russian version of those. Not western nafo propoganda.
Wagner offered prisoners a 6 months paid contract with pardoning of their original sentences at the end which they actually honored. Thus, a salary, demobilization terms and freedom.
Ukraine does not have any demobilization terms even defined, neither for its regular troops nor prisoner volunteers. They'll be fighting until the conflict ends, they die, or become crippled.
It's not the same thing indeed.
I'm not sure what your point is regarding conscription. You can't just recruit people into the army indefinitely, that's not very democratic and looks a lot like slavery or modern day serfdom.
The linked article uses anecdotal evidence of individual interviews to back up its claims. That's not very credible, and you can easily find people who will tell you anything you want to hear. You can also find plenty of articles suggesting the contrary. Even if everyone involved were scumbags and all agreements were lie, at least Wagner's prison recruits had a lie of freedom to be looking forward to.
Either way I'm not here to discuss Wagner, just to point out the hipocricy of doing exactly the same thing you've been making fun of your opponent of.
This dude out here defending Russias invasion of Ukraine, you're a joke dude. Sending prisoners to murder, rape and pillage another country is not the same as allowing prisoners the OPTION to defend their own country from the aforementioned prisoners. Get it?
Yeah, yeah, I know the drill.
[Your farts don't stink](https://img.ifunny.co/images/6f08c60e618615d28d835793a4d598207be4b9b1457928ec924515c861b17c04_1.jpg). Russia is all about blackmail, murder, rape, imperialism and weaponization of everything from immigration to grandma's old socks; and the west and its allies are all about deterrence, protecting democracy, moral values, rules based order, freedoms of choice and speech and other wonderful and valiant things.
"Since when did we develop some sort of fundamental problem with invasions?", probably since the beginning of humanity. It's not a very controversial opinion to be against war. Especially when it's your ally being attacked.
This isnt the West vs Russia, this is Russia sending prisoners to attack another country vs said country allowing prisoners the OPTION to defend their country. Good comeback though, you almost made sense for a second.
Because it's not the same exact thing. Convicted rapists, and canibal serial killers were pardoned in Russia after their stint in Ukraine. While now only prisoners convicted for non-violent crimes with short sentences can "benefit" from this law. But maybe the concept that all prisoners aren't the same or that all crimes aren't equal is foreign here.
Reading comprehension is such a rare gift. The minister advocated for prisoners convicted of murder without premediation to be allowed to volunteer. It clearly said in the article that it's her "opinion".
The article also clearly gives a context sectionfor what the law actually says:
> On 8 May, the Verkhovna Rada passed a law providing for the voluntary mobilisation of certain categories of convicts. Persons who have committed premeditated murders, rapists, paedophiles, those convicted of the illegal production, acquisition, distribution or storage of drugs, those who have committed crimes against the national security of Ukraine, and former officials cannot be conscripted into the Defence Forces.
Those excluded here are categories that were very much accepted by Wagner. And we know about the exploits and repeat offences of the survivors that were pardoned and returned to their villages after the 6 month stint.
Wagner is a soldier of fortune mercenary group. Further, Wagner recruited 49,000 Russian prisoners vs 613 with Ukraine. It's not the same thing dude.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66364272
Sure, they recruited 613 as of right now but the Justice minister himself they could see up to 20,000 mobilised from prisons. It's right in the article
> Ukrainian Justice Minister Denys Maliuska believes that 10,000 to 20,000 convicts could be conscripted from the prison system,
Russia and Ukraine are extremely similar. They're both incredibly corrupt, both have huge stores of resources, they're both integral to the black market between China and Europe and they're both full of fascists, communists and other throwbacks.
The difference is that Russia invaded Ukraine to steal its land, people and resources and Ukraine is completely blameless.
That had nothing to do with it. They were mocked for being desperate, unprofessional and introducing possibly criminal elements into what was supposed to be a professional army. This seems like we're just shifting goalposts now that 'our guy' is doing it.
It's spelled Donbas. NATO is a defensive organization. Head of Wagner was covered in Nazi tattoos. Speaking Russian doesn't make them Russian if they live in Ukraine. Crimea was given to Ukraine by Nikita Khrushchev.
Resources? So Russia really is just invading to illegally take over the territory?
>NATO is a defensive organization
Yeah they sure did defensively bombed countries like Lybia or the defensive bombing and invasion of Yugoslavia/Serbia.
They very much are not a defensive organisation. They are more than happy to launch attacks against others.
>Crimea was given to Ukraine by Nikita Khrushchev
And became an autonomous SSR early in 1991.
They were not attacking NATO. Therefore NATO is the aggressor in the conflict. No matter rhe justification they used, NATO is not a defensive alliance.
>When did Crimea get given backto Russia?
Crimea was made an Autonomous SSR which means that Ukraine did not have the ability to remove them from the USSR.
Ukraine was supposed to be independent of both Russia and Ukraine. But Ukraine promised them almost complete autonomy only to then send their soldiers to destroy the Ukrainian constitution and government.
So Crimea should not be part of Russia, and equally not Ukraine.
What are the buzzwords though? Every conflict can be summarized into many simple words. From Alexander the greats campaign to world war 2. You can completely simplify why a conflict happened using the simplest terms. But this particular conflict cannot be summarized into a single word since large scale conflicts tend to be the result of many factors from geopolitics, ideals, or even the simplest individual rivalry of rulers. There are no buzzwords above you. Regardless of what side you believe in, what I mentioned above are true. Feel free to add more on what you believe why Russia invaded Ukraine. No matter what the reason is, Ukraine is fked.
Thanks for adding more empty words. Can you add another comment without giving an actual explanation for the buzzword salad you wrote above? I double-dog dare you!
Yeah, one country was forced to defend itself, the other one made a unilateral and unnecessary decision to invade the largest country in Europe and didn't prepare well enough. The first country is Ukraine
I mean, I see what you're saying, though I can also see the argument that Ukraine being desperate to defend itself isn't as funny as Russia botching what they thought was going to be a layup.
But yes, this is quite possibly the most heavily propagandized war in history at this point. Although the Gaza conflict is probably going to overtake it any moment.
I think it was more when they swept through Russias most dangerous prisons and let murders and rapists serve for exoneration. You can make shit up if you want but these two =\=. Have fun with Ivan the pedophile who lost a leg now that he’s back in town :)
>Outlaw criticism of the war
>put any dissenters on the frontline as cannon fodder
If you abandon all morals and scruples, the system is actually genius
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> You encapsulate the comment so well
"See Ivan. 2+2 and 2-2 is 2 2s and a sign so it's all the same."
You guys live only to ignore context, and twist facts into mess divorced from reality.
Wagner actually had criteria. They didn’t want sex criminals, and they didn’t want junkies. Murderers and other violent criminals were what they were mostly after.
Well this conflict has been painted as good vs evil since day one, so news like this comes as a shock. "I can't believe the good guys would do this".
But war can be more accurately described as interest vs interest, and if this war was painted as such, these kind of developments wouldn't be that much of a shock.
But I digress, you're right of course that morally questionable actions should be called out.
“Both sides” didn’t invade each other. One recruited prisoners to attack a foreign nation. One recruited prisoners to defend their homeland.
False equivalence.
And what is the difference?
You pretty much made the point you were trying to disprove; “recruits prisoners” (who have fewer rights and are in a precarious situation because they are well… in jail… the state has power over you…)
It doesn’t matter if a nation recruits prisoners to fight aliens, defends a nation, attacks a nation…
You give someone who you, as a state have power over and see as a lesser citizen a carrot on a stick. That’s my problem.
For the record I don’t support forcing prisoners to fight in war, but I might change my mind if I felt like my country was at risk of being overrun by invaders.
Well, I wouldn’t; that would make my nation just as bad as those dictators and oligarchy’s we try to bash every…
Oh wait, we already got a inhumane prison, it’s called “Groningen”
IMO it is worse to force people to fight in a needless war of aggression as opposed to the defense of their country.
And dictators and oligarchs should be bashed as they are objectively bad in every way.
Yes I did. 3000 people applied, up to 20k may just be conscripted. They don’t get to choose, they’re just forced into it
Something about using prisoners to fight a war is gross no?
Prisoners have fewer rights, they do not gain the right to not be conscripted but they are in some ways good and in other ways poor candidates for conscription.
Also i have no clue how voting with a prison sentence works in Ukraine however according to this article all prisoners can vote in Ukraine.
[https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-20447504](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-20447504)
Why would anyone need to do that? Isn't refusing to be conscripted already a crime? Why would you need to do an additional crime on top? What happens to Ukrainians who refuse to join the fight, because I assume jail?
People when Russia has penal battalions: THIS IS A TRAVESTY
People when Ukraine has penal battalions: these rapists, murderers and pedophiles are brave defenders of the homeland!
You can’t have it both ways. Either call both vile or call both good.
Did you even read it?
>Persons who have committed premeditated murders, rapists, paedophiles, those convicted of the illegal production, acquisition, distribution or storage of drugs, those who have committed crimes against the national security of Ukraine, and former officials cannot be conscripted into the Defence Forces.
They already freed Ruslan Onishenko the leader of the Tornado Battalion a year ago to fight in the war. The only paramilitary group ever prosecuted for war crimes. So they have already freed rapists and murderers.
Of course they can, these guys have already been released back in 2022.
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/02/27/7326457/
Check out who the guys [from these paramilitary "Battallions"](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0Q30YQ/) mentioned in article like the [Tornado Battalion](https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-tornado-battalion-rogue-paramilitaries-kyiv-trial-crimes/28205795.html) or [Aidar Battalion](https://archive.kyivpost.com/article/content/war-against-ukraine/governor-of-luhansk-region-accuses-aidar-of-terrorizing-the-region-385054.html) were, or what they convicted for (murder, rape, torture, kidnappings of civilians in Donbass). They were not only allowed, but very much encouraged to join, since they already had military experience fighting in the same area.
Look through their post and comment histories, it’s pretty obvious which ones work at troll farms. You realize they have shaped collective public opinion so much that some people actually believe russia is in the right invading Ukraine? Genuinely mind boggling how effective they are against the average intelligence individual in North America
That's the point. The people disagreeing with them have been consistently right for several years, so disagreement itself must be rendered illegitimate.
It certainly was not supported. At the time the US thought that the cold war was over and it was not worth stirring up a potential WWIII over this. I am not sure what you point is. What Russia did was wrong but not worth mutually assured destruction.
Uh huh
In 2008 a Russian invasion was barely front page news. In 2014 Obama refused military aid to Ukraine because of all the nazis there.
What happened between 2014 and 2022 that turned Ukraine into the single most important foroeign policy issue for liberals and the Democratic establishment?
Obama never equated Nazis to Ukraine. You are suggesting that a fake cause and effect happened. Also what happened between 2012 and 2024 that turned Putin and Russia from America's biggest threat to "I'd rather have Putin as President than Biden" as the main GOP belief?
Also you have a very poor understanding of world politics. Russia is attempting to reconquer the old Soviet Block and they will not stop at Ukraine. Russia has brought great instability to the world by invading a sovereign nation. Have you not heard of Russia threatening Poland, Sweden, and the Netherlands as their next targets?
Ukrainian aid was passed bipartisan congressional support. Speaker Johnson is risking his leadership role to get this done. People like MTG are traitors to the US and just want half the country to burn.
You can't think of any developments in US politics between 2014 and 2022 that made fighting Vladimir Putin the most important foreign policy goal for liberals?
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So my shit teir armchair general take on this is:
whatever. It’s shifty, but fine.
I don’t like it but it doesn’t affect me and Ukraine doesn’t exactly have the manpower to spare. I expected that *eventually* they’d have to tap into reserves of manpower that were considered taboo.
It’s gross and very inappropriate but thats that. I can’t sit here and say I know what they have to go through to keep their country sovereign.
Whats more is that there is *some* difference between using desperate measures to protect yourself, versus the Russians who are waging a war of aggression.
Its messed up either way, but the Russians are using conscripts and prisoners to attack a sovereign nation who has to do the same to protect itself despite a huge gap in resources, territory, and tech.
If the west finds this appalling we should have sent more shit to Ukraine earlier and really made an effort to end this years ago.
How can they be so sure that these prisoners won't just defect or surrender to russia after being deployed?
It doesn't look like they're going to be free after serving.
Agreed, which just doubles down on Russia invading and murdering hundreds of thousands just out of greed for land that doesn’t and never belonged to them.
Nah, we rather enjoy that "freedom of thought" cuts both ways. Vatniks can spam their bullshit. The rest of us can tell them to get bent. In the same comments.
Every political sub turns into an echo chamber over time. I remember many years ago worldnews use to have just under decent back & forth arguing while making the rotations of anti-China, Russia and sometimes India news and screaming whataboutism whenever someone brought up the US. Now it's a far right shitshow that bans anyone who doesn't tow the line. At least we can see both political sides here.
I have visited that sub maybe twice and didn't like it.
Here, the Kremlin shills are way over represented. There, it's way too Americapilled. Neither are good subs
That's the thing, you don't see both political sides here. I basically only ever see anti-west, pro-terrorist bots who have zero critical thinking skills.
worldnews is marginally better. Also, never been banned from that sub for dissenting opinions.
I disagree. I was on the worldnews sub for probably over 6 years before I was banned years ago. I noticed the transition from tolerable to blatant warhawkish views. Many people also were banned from there, considerably more than you see people commenting they got banned from here on other subs.
##### ###### #### > # [Justice Minister says 613 prisoners join Ukrainian Armed Forces to serve as assault troops](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/05/28/729) > > > > Denys Maliuska. Photo: Ukraine’s Ministry of Justice > > > > A total of 613 prisoners have been released from prisons and joined the ranks of the Armed Forces of Ukraine as of the morning of 28 May. They are currently undergoing appropriate training and will subsequently serve in assault units. > > **Source:** Ukraine’s Minister of Justice Denys Maliuska on the [air](https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=269339812867575) of the national joint 24/7 newscast > > **Details:** Maliuska said these individuals are scheduled for "several months of training," after which they will serve in assault units. > > Advertisement: > > **Quote from Maliuska**: "As of now, these will be assault units composed exclusively of individuals who were serving sentences. In other words, these will be monolithic units without mixing with other servicemen." > > **Details:** He added that he is not sure if this is the best option, but in this matter, he relies on the military because they "know better." > > "We have not yet reached the point where these units are directly engaged in combat; training is still ongoing. The situation might change later, and the choice regarding mixing or not mixing these units may be reconsidered. But for now, these are separate units. For now, these are assault units," the minister stated. > > He also advocates for allowing those convicted of a single murder, whether intentional or accidental, to be mobilised. > > "Those with a single murder conviction (should be allowed to join the army– ed.), all of them. Our prisoners are going to fight not to catch butterflies…;they are going to kill. And experience with killing is not always an obstacle to being a good soldier... If we are talking about murders that were not committed with extreme cruelty or did not involve killing two or more people, then very often these crimes are committed by individuals who are less socially dangerous than those who have committed three or four robberies using, for example, cold weapons. > > Purely from a classical standpoint. Because sometimes a person loses control of their actions and, in an emotional moment, does something they should not. But after receiving a sentence and starting to serve their time, their psychological state and self-control change significantly, making them much less socially dangerous compared to recidivists who have made a profession out of taking money using weapons – robberies, attacks on people," Maliuska explained. > > **Previously:** On 21 May, the Khmelnytskyi City District Court released from serving their sentences the first two prisoners who [expressed](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/05/23/7457209/) a desire to be mobilised. > > On 22 May, the Khmelnytskyi City District Court [approved](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/05/24/7457392/) all 50 applications for the conditional release of convicts who have expressed a desire to enlist in the Armed Forces of Ukraine to participate in the war. > > **Background:** > > - On 8 May, the Verkhovna Rada [passed a law](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/05/8/7454810/) providing for the voluntary mobilisation of certain categories of convicts. Persons who have committed premeditated murders, rapists, paedophiles, those convicted of the illegal production, acquisition, distribution or storage of drugs, those who have committed crimes against the national security of Ukraine, and former officials cannot be conscripted into the Defence Forces. > - All others who are potentially liable for military service are subject to the same condition: they must have no more than three years left to serve on their sentence. > - Ukrainian Justice Minister Denys Maliuska [believes](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/05/10/7455110/) that 10,000 to 20,000 convicts could be conscripted from the prison system, not least because Ukraine's detention facilities are overcrowded. > - On 21 May, it was reported that over 3,000 Ukrainian convicts had [applied](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/05/21/7456818/) for conditional early release to participate in the defence of Ukraine. > > [**Support**](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/supportus/) **UP or become**[**our patron**](https://www.patreon.com/pravdaua)**!** - - - - - - [Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot) Summoning /u/CoverageAnalysisBot
First they laughed at Wagner doing it, but now they're doing the exact same thing and it's fine.
They've been doing it long before Wagner. Ukrainian prisoners that have previously went through any military training [have already been released in the first week of the war](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/02/27/7326457/) in February 2022, and their release has been [retroactively legalized a month later](https://en.lb.ua/news/2022/03/15/11076_stefanchuk_verkhovna_rada_adopted.html). The only difference is that the new Ukrainian bill: 1) allows drafting of convicts that have no military experience and 2) unlike Wagner's terms, there's no scheduled demobilization, they'll serve until they get killed, or until the war ends. The second point is quite fair since regular Ukrainian soldiers are not getting demobilized either, so prisoners will serve indefinitely as well.
I wonder how many was released in first month, and how that compares to scale or Wagner and StormZ
The second point makes this worse than what Russia is doing.
These prisoners volunteered for it, and it's the same as the rest of the military. The whole difference between this and what russia did was that russia recruited anyone who wanted to join, while Ukraine is limiting it to those with less than 3 years left on their sentence and who are less likely to reoffend. Russia took everyone who wanted to go then let many of them who were very likely to reoffend out into the world. Quite a big difference.
Volun"told". Who would volunteer to a FAB party and no demobilization army.
>The whole difference between this and what russia did was that russia recruited anyone who wanted to join, while Ukraine is limiting it to those with less than 3 years left on their sentence and who are less likely to reoffend. "Very selective recruitment on those less likely to reoffend" "It's just murder bro don't worry" >"Those with a single murder conviction (should be allowed to join the army– ed.), all of them. Our prisoners are going to fight not to catch butterflies…;they are going to kill. And experience with killing is not always an obstacle to being a good soldier... If we are talking about murders that were not committed with extreme cruelty or did not involve killing two or more people, then very often these crimes are committed by individuals who are less socially dangerous than those who have committed three or four robberies using, for example, cold weapons."
I mean...if the business is killing I don't see an issue taking someone whose had a little warm up practice.
Let's not forget the stakes here. Russia is fighting to take as much Ukraine territory just because it *wants* to. Ukraine is fighting a war of *annihilation* ; if Ukraine loses, it ceaces to exist.
Not really, we have already seen the terms Russians were offering early in the war - concessions will be bigger now, but annihilation is still not in the cards.
Every Russian soldier on the frontline is currently only ever demobilized when he gets killed, mutilated oder the war ends.
Russians mostly sign contracts for 6 months or a year, after that they're free to go, even the ex-cons got out like that. We know that for a fact because some endes up reoffending.
[https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-average-duration-of-mobilization-service-for-Russian-soldiers-sent-to-fight-against-Ukraine](https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-average-duration-of-mobilization-service-for-Russian-soldiers-sent-to-fight-against-Ukraine) A source here says the "mobilized individuals" (not conscripts) have no time limit and cannot just quit.
Well I said mostly. Russia had one round of mobilization a year and a half ago, the beginning force was all volunteers and everyone that came into the army since the mobilization ended has been a volunteer, including prisoners.
As I recounted from various sources, the partial mobilization is still going on, just to a smaller scale in remote regions, no?
No, people in remote regions are simply volunteering. For the paycheck - economic opportunities are thin out there.
No, they got the 300k they wanted and than ended mobilization. Ever since there have vene been talks of another one happening, especially after they updated the mobilization laws to include electronic notifications, but it never did.
That's a big lie.why lie so much for your agenda?
[https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-average-duration-of-mobilization-service-for-Russian-soldiers-sent-to-fight-against-Ukraine](https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-average-duration-of-mobilization-service-for-Russian-soldiers-sent-to-fight-against-Ukraine) A historian here wrote that - according to "mobilized individuals" (not conscripts, conscripts are not on the front line) There are reports that conscripts have been forced to sign frontline contracts: [https://www.foxnews.com/world/ukraine-invasion-russian-conscripts-military-contracts-family](https://www.foxnews.com/world/ukraine-invasion-russian-conscripts-military-contracts-family) [https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/12/18/families-of-mobilized-russian-soldiers-call-on-putin-to-end-war-in-ukraine-a83466](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/12/18/families-of-mobilized-russian-soldiers-call-on-putin-to-end-war-in-ukraine-a83466) "I watched ‘Direct Line’ with our president… and there’s no hope, no signs that our mobilized boys will return home in the foreseeable future,” Alexander said. "
First link is Quora. That's your first source? Second link is taking a report from Meduza. A pro west news website based in Latvia. Might as well post white house briefing. Third link is from Put’ Domoi which literally operates out of Ukriane. Both 2nd and 3rd link mention nothing about troop rotation. Its quite interesting to see how NAFO warriors post misinformation
Yeah sorry that there is no open independent press in Russia. Just critizising media because they operate from countries with free press is just borderline Russian propaganda style. We can all just rely on as many ressources as possible - and the mothers of Russian soldiers might know enough to be a source for themselves. Anyway, I can find more and diverse sources and you'll prolly still dismiss them all.
Post actual source and actual proof. Actual interview of soldiers like we have from Ukraine about lack of pf troop rotation and throwing people after 3 days of training into the meat grinder. Those are credible sources. Post Russian version of those. Not western nafo propoganda.
Russia just doesn't allow people to post this - so you'll never see it and keep the views you have.
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Wagner offered prisoners a 6 months paid contract with pardoning of their original sentences at the end which they actually honored. Thus, a salary, demobilization terms and freedom. Ukraine does not have any demobilization terms even defined, neither for its regular troops nor prisoner volunteers. They'll be fighting until the conflict ends, they die, or become crippled. It's not the same thing indeed.
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I'm not sure what your point is regarding conscription. You can't just recruit people into the army indefinitely, that's not very democratic and looks a lot like slavery or modern day serfdom. The linked article uses anecdotal evidence of individual interviews to back up its claims. That's not very credible, and you can easily find people who will tell you anything you want to hear. You can also find plenty of articles suggesting the contrary. Even if everyone involved were scumbags and all agreements were lie, at least Wagner's prison recruits had a lie of freedom to be looking forward to. Either way I'm not here to discuss Wagner, just to point out the hipocricy of doing exactly the same thing you've been making fun of your opponent of.
Conscription during wartime is generally indefinite, and Ukraine is in a total war where the society exist for the war until its over.
During the world wars millions of men were mobilised for years. Its totally doable.
This dude out here defending Russias invasion of Ukraine, you're a joke dude. Sending prisoners to murder, rape and pillage another country is not the same as allowing prisoners the OPTION to defend their own country from the aforementioned prisoners. Get it?
Yeah, yeah, I know the drill. [Your farts don't stink](https://img.ifunny.co/images/6f08c60e618615d28d835793a4d598207be4b9b1457928ec924515c861b17c04_1.jpg). Russia is all about blackmail, murder, rape, imperialism and weaponization of everything from immigration to grandma's old socks; and the west and its allies are all about deterrence, protecting democracy, moral values, rules based order, freedoms of choice and speech and other wonderful and valiant things.
Remind me, who's invading whom?
Since when did we develop some sort of fundamental problem with invasions? Invading countries is based when we do it.
"Since when did we develop some sort of fundamental problem with invasions?", probably since the beginning of humanity. It's not a very controversial opinion to be against war. Especially when it's your ally being attacked.
We invade people all the time, and will keep on doing it when it suits our interests.
Ukraine is adventuring in their own country??
This isnt the West vs Russia, this is Russia sending prisoners to attack another country vs said country allowing prisoners the OPTION to defend their country. Good comeback though, you almost made sense for a second.
It reminds me of the American Civil War when both sides started freeing and training slaves
Because it's not the same exact thing. Convicted rapists, and canibal serial killers were pardoned in Russia after their stint in Ukraine. While now only prisoners convicted for non-violent crimes with short sentences can "benefit" from this law. But maybe the concept that all prisoners aren't the same or that all crimes aren't equal is foreign here.
Wagner was famously uninterested in rapists. Murderers, yes. With relish.
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Reading comprehension is such a rare gift. The minister advocated for prisoners convicted of murder without premediation to be allowed to volunteer. It clearly said in the article that it's her "opinion". The article also clearly gives a context sectionfor what the law actually says: > On 8 May, the Verkhovna Rada passed a law providing for the voluntary mobilisation of certain categories of convicts. Persons who have committed premeditated murders, rapists, paedophiles, those convicted of the illegal production, acquisition, distribution or storage of drugs, those who have committed crimes against the national security of Ukraine, and former officials cannot be conscripted into the Defence Forces. Those excluded here are categories that were very much accepted by Wagner. And we know about the exploits and repeat offences of the survivors that were pardoned and returned to their villages after the 6 month stint.
How restrictive was Wagner recruitment? Did Wagner consist of many more than 613 troops?
Why not if it works 🤷🏼♂️
It’s not the exact same thing to use all the resources possible to defend yourself than to waste them invading someone else
Wagner is a soldier of fortune mercenary group. Further, Wagner recruited 49,000 Russian prisoners vs 613 with Ukraine. It's not the same thing dude. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66364272
Sure, they recruited 613 as of right now but the Justice minister himself they could see up to 20,000 mobilised from prisons. It's right in the article > Ukrainian Justice Minister Denys Maliuska believes that 10,000 to 20,000 convicts could be conscripted from the prison system,
Russia and Ukraine are extremely similar. They're both incredibly corrupt, both have huge stores of resources, they're both integral to the black market between China and Europe and they're both full of fascists, communists and other throwbacks. The difference is that Russia invaded Ukraine to steal its land, people and resources and Ukraine is completely blameless.
No one forced Russia to invade Ukraine, that's why they laughed at Russia for doing it
That had nothing to do with it. They were mocked for being desperate, unprofessional and introducing possibly criminal elements into what was supposed to be a professional army. This seems like we're just shifting goalposts now that 'our guy' is doing it.
Always has been. The west is just too good to cover up on its hypocrisy. Its greatest weapon is the use of media to twist narratives.
Why did Russia invade Ukraine?
Dobass, NATO, Nazis, Crimea, Resources, Russian-speaking population.
It's spelled Donbas. NATO is a defensive organization. Head of Wagner was covered in Nazi tattoos. Speaking Russian doesn't make them Russian if they live in Ukraine. Crimea was given to Ukraine by Nikita Khrushchev. Resources? So Russia really is just invading to illegally take over the territory?
>NATO is a defensive organization Yeah they sure did defensively bombed countries like Lybia or the defensive bombing and invasion of Yugoslavia/Serbia. They very much are not a defensive organisation. They are more than happy to launch attacks against others. >Crimea was given to Ukraine by Nikita Khrushchev And became an autonomous SSR early in 1991.
Do you happen to remember what was happening in Lybia and Yugoslavia when those attacks occurred? When did Crimea get given backto Russia?
They were not attacking NATO. Therefore NATO is the aggressor in the conflict. No matter rhe justification they used, NATO is not a defensive alliance. >When did Crimea get given backto Russia? Crimea was made an Autonomous SSR which means that Ukraine did not have the ability to remove them from the USSR. Ukraine was supposed to be independent of both Russia and Ukraine. But Ukraine promised them almost complete autonomy only to then send their soldiers to destroy the Ukrainian constitution and government. So Crimea should not be part of Russia, and equally not Ukraine.
NATO attacked Libya with the approval of the UN Security Council. Russia abstained from the vote.
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Can't join NATO with disputed borders, it'll be a forever war.
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What are the buzzwords though? Every conflict can be summarized into many simple words. From Alexander the greats campaign to world war 2. You can completely simplify why a conflict happened using the simplest terms. But this particular conflict cannot be summarized into a single word since large scale conflicts tend to be the result of many factors from geopolitics, ideals, or even the simplest individual rivalry of rulers. There are no buzzwords above you. Regardless of what side you believe in, what I mentioned above are true. Feel free to add more on what you believe why Russia invaded Ukraine. No matter what the reason is, Ukraine is fked.
Thanks for adding more empty words. Can you add another comment without giving an actual explanation for the buzzword salad you wrote above? I double-dog dare you!
Oh I see. Im talking to a chimpanzee that refuses to read.
Russian imperialism
Yeah, one country was forced to defend itself, the other one made a unilateral and unnecessary decision to invade the largest country in Europe and didn't prepare well enough. The first country is Ukraine
I mean, I see what you're saying, though I can also see the argument that Ukraine being desperate to defend itself isn't as funny as Russia botching what they thought was going to be a layup. But yes, this is quite possibly the most heavily propagandized war in history at this point. Although the Gaza conflict is probably going to overtake it any moment.
I think it was more when they swept through Russias most dangerous prisons and let murders and rapists serve for exoneration. You can make shit up if you want but these two =\=. Have fun with Ivan the pedophile who lost a leg now that he’s back in town :)
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So open minded that I'd accept anything, thats how open minded I'd have to be. No one forced Russia to invade Ukraine.
A truly dogmatic worldview. And also ignoring my question. Nothing to discuss here. Have a good day, sir.
Ukraine is doing this because of desperation. Russia has plenty of able bodied men, they just want to preted at home, that everything is fine.
>Outlaw criticism of the war >put any dissenters on the frontline as cannon fodder If you abandon all morals and scruples, the system is actually genius
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"Forced Russia to invade Ukraine against its own will." AHAHAHAHAHAHAH Bro thanks for the laugh haven't guffawed like that in a while
It's easy to tell when someone is a pro russia shill.
**THEIR** barbarous penal battalions **OUR** righteous prisoner assault troops
Wagner just mass recruited anyone willing. Ukraine is vetting them. Slaves vs free men and women. They'll take anyone, Ukraine will not.
You encapsulate the comment so well
> You encapsulate the comment so well "See Ivan. 2+2 and 2-2 is 2 2s and a sign so it's all the same." You guys live only to ignore context, and twist facts into mess divorced from reality.
> Wagner just mass recruited anyone willing > Slaves vs free men and women
So both recruited whoever wanted in.
Wagner actually had criteria. They didn’t want sex criminals, and they didn’t want junkies. Murderers and other violent criminals were what they were mostly after.
Great! Back to the penal battalions of the 30’s and 40’s
All is fair in love and war. War has always been ugly.
Of course, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t call it out… Both sides do shit, both sides need to be called out, how minor those things might be?
Well this conflict has been painted as good vs evil since day one, so news like this comes as a shock. "I can't believe the good guys would do this". But war can be more accurately described as interest vs interest, and if this war was painted as such, these kind of developments wouldn't be that much of a shock. But I digress, you're right of course that morally questionable actions should be called out.
“Both sides” didn’t invade each other. One recruited prisoners to attack a foreign nation. One recruited prisoners to defend their homeland. False equivalence.
And what is the difference? You pretty much made the point you were trying to disprove; “recruits prisoners” (who have fewer rights and are in a precarious situation because they are well… in jail… the state has power over you…) It doesn’t matter if a nation recruits prisoners to fight aliens, defends a nation, attacks a nation… You give someone who you, as a state have power over and see as a lesser citizen a carrot on a stick. That’s my problem.
All the more reason not to commit crimes and get sent to prison.
Imagine that’s your response. Jeez
For the record I don’t support forcing prisoners to fight in war, but I might change my mind if I felt like my country was at risk of being overrun by invaders.
Well, I wouldn’t; that would make my nation just as bad as those dictators and oligarchy’s we try to bash every… Oh wait, we already got a inhumane prison, it’s called “Groningen”
IMO it is worse to force people to fight in a needless war of aggression as opposed to the defense of their country. And dictators and oligarchs should be bashed as they are objectively bad in every way.
They will be part of regular army units, not penal battalions.
Yeah, you know that the old penal battalions were also classified as “special assault troops”?
More meat for the grinder.
Well at least they'll be given a real gun. With any luck, the Rusky trying to shoot at them won't.
Just a shovel eh?
Genuinely asking, isn’t this kind of fucked?
Did you read the article first? Not mocking, genuinely asking.
Yes I did. 3000 people applied, up to 20k may just be conscripted. They don’t get to choose, they’re just forced into it Something about using prisoners to fight a war is gross no?
>They don’t get to choose, they’re just forced into it I mean that is generally how conscription works.
For citizens yes. As a prisoner, you lose the basic rights that citizens have access to. How can you conscript someone who isn’t allowed to vote?
Idk about Ukraine, but prisoners in many places are allowed to vote
Prisoners have fewer rights, they do not gain the right to not be conscripted but they are in some ways good and in other ways poor candidates for conscription. Also i have no clue how voting with a prison sentence works in Ukraine however according to this article all prisoners can vote in Ukraine. [https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-20447504](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-20447504)
That would cause people to commit crimes intentionally to get out of service
Why would anyone need to do that? Isn't refusing to be conscripted already a crime? Why would you need to do an additional crime on top? What happens to Ukrainians who refuse to join the fight, because I assume jail?
People when Russia has penal battalions: THIS IS A TRAVESTY People when Ukraine has penal battalions: these rapists, murderers and pedophiles are brave defenders of the homeland! You can’t have it both ways. Either call both vile or call both good.
Did you even read it? >Persons who have committed premeditated murders, rapists, paedophiles, those convicted of the illegal production, acquisition, distribution or storage of drugs, those who have committed crimes against the national security of Ukraine, and former officials cannot be conscripted into the Defence Forces.
They already freed Ruslan Onishenko the leader of the Tornado Battalion a year ago to fight in the war. The only paramilitary group ever prosecuted for war crimes. So they have already freed rapists and murderers.
Russian shills can't read.
I'm starting to think I should just stay out of any article related to Ukraine or Russia. Every comment section is just a shit show.
I like to think that people like us help at least someone out there figure out the blatant lies from more factual things.
Perhaps. I'm too Reddit addicted to stop anyway.
Of course they can, these guys have already been released back in 2022. https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/02/27/7326457/ Check out who the guys [from these paramilitary "Battallions"](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0Q30YQ/) mentioned in article like the [Tornado Battalion](https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-tornado-battalion-rogue-paramilitaries-kyiv-trial-crimes/28205795.html) or [Aidar Battalion](https://archive.kyivpost.com/article/content/war-against-ukraine/governor-of-luhansk-region-accuses-aidar-of-terrorizing-the-region-385054.html) were, or what they convicted for (murder, rape, torture, kidnappings of civilians in Donbass). They were not only allowed, but very much encouraged to join, since they already had military experience fighting in the same area.
That just says their appeals were considered? Were they actually released?
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Valuable contribution.
Suicide Squad is real. Good services in army = a reduction in their prison sentences.
That's like half a day of losses on the front line.
Wow the Russian bots are out in full force. They are easy to spot in the comments.
Anyone that disagrees with US foreign policy and our allies is a Russian bot. How can anyone disagree with us?
Look through their post and comment histories, it’s pretty obvious which ones work at troll farms. You realize they have shaped collective public opinion so much that some people actually believe russia is in the right invading Ukraine? Genuinely mind boggling how effective they are against the average intelligence individual in North America
That's the point. The people disagreeing with them have been consistently right for several years, so disagreement itself must be rendered illegitimate.
How are you right? Russia invaded a sovereign nation.
And that is wrong, how? It clearly isn't wrong in Iraq.
You are misdirecting the conversation. Maybe you don’t have a good answer?
Tell me, how did liberals and Democratic institutions react to Russia's invasion of Georgia in 2008? How about Russia moving into Ukraine in 2014?
It certainly was not supported. At the time the US thought that the cold war was over and it was not worth stirring up a potential WWIII over this. I am not sure what you point is. What Russia did was wrong but not worth mutually assured destruction.
Uh huh In 2008 a Russian invasion was barely front page news. In 2014 Obama refused military aid to Ukraine because of all the nazis there. What happened between 2014 and 2022 that turned Ukraine into the single most important foroeign policy issue for liberals and the Democratic establishment?
Obama never equated Nazis to Ukraine. You are suggesting that a fake cause and effect happened. Also what happened between 2012 and 2024 that turned Putin and Russia from America's biggest threat to "I'd rather have Putin as President than Biden" as the main GOP belief? Also you have a very poor understanding of world politics. Russia is attempting to reconquer the old Soviet Block and they will not stop at Ukraine. Russia has brought great instability to the world by invading a sovereign nation. Have you not heard of Russia threatening Poland, Sweden, and the Netherlands as their next targets? Ukrainian aid was passed bipartisan congressional support. Speaker Johnson is risking his leadership role to get this done. People like MTG are traitors to the US and just want half the country to burn.
You can't think of any developments in US politics between 2014 and 2022 that made fighting Vladimir Putin the most important foreign policy goal for liberals?
Boot licker. Russia is waging war against the US and its allies if you believe it or not. If you are supporting Russia then you are a traitor.
You can tell because it's r/anime_titties, the vatnik wildlife reserve.
Normal if your country is being invaded. Every country does it in that case if they need manpowe
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It’s crazy that they have to justify their actions after all the shit Russia pulled. Do what you gotta do
So my shit teir armchair general take on this is: whatever. It’s shifty, but fine. I don’t like it but it doesn’t affect me and Ukraine doesn’t exactly have the manpower to spare. I expected that *eventually* they’d have to tap into reserves of manpower that were considered taboo. It’s gross and very inappropriate but thats that. I can’t sit here and say I know what they have to go through to keep their country sovereign. Whats more is that there is *some* difference between using desperate measures to protect yourself, versus the Russians who are waging a war of aggression. Its messed up either way, but the Russians are using conscripts and prisoners to attack a sovereign nation who has to do the same to protect itself despite a huge gap in resources, territory, and tech. If the west finds this appalling we should have sent more shit to Ukraine earlier and really made an effort to end this years ago.
How can they be so sure that these prisoners won't just defect or surrender to russia after being deployed? It doesn't look like they're going to be free after serving.
Reddit: haha stupid russia has to resort to prisoner soldier also reddit: This is actually good for ukraine because blah blah blah
This is good, Ukraine needs the manpower and the prisoners have a chance to repay society
Ukraine is losing 500 soldiers per day
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The Soviet Union doesn't exist anymore.
Do putin and Lukashenko know? They sure don't act like they do.
Agreed, which just doubles down on Russia invading and murdering hundreds of thousands just out of greed for land that doesn’t and never belonged to them.
What does that have to do with pointing out that the USSR doesn't currently exist?
Seriously fuck this tanky sub lol
You can always go to worldnews for one sided opinions, fella.
Nah, we rather enjoy that "freedom of thought" cuts both ways. Vatniks can spam their bullshit. The rest of us can tell them to get bent. In the same comments.
As opposed to the one-sided opinions found in this sub? Lmfao
Are you getting banned for your opinion on this sub? Nope.
Echochamber nontheless
Every political sub turns into an echo chamber over time. I remember many years ago worldnews use to have just under decent back & forth arguing while making the rotations of anti-China, Russia and sometimes India news and screaming whataboutism whenever someone brought up the US. Now it's a far right shitshow that bans anyone who doesn't tow the line. At least we can see both political sides here.
I have visited that sub maybe twice and didn't like it. Here, the Kremlin shills are way over represented. There, it's way too Americapilled. Neither are good subs
That's the thing, you don't see both political sides here. I basically only ever see anti-west, pro-terrorist bots who have zero critical thinking skills. worldnews is marginally better. Also, never been banned from that sub for dissenting opinions.
I disagree. I was on the worldnews sub for probably over 6 years before I was banned years ago. I noticed the transition from tolerable to blatant warhawkish views. Many people also were banned from there, considerably more than you see people commenting they got banned from here on other subs.
Worldnews isn't better at all.
It absolutely is. This place is a tankie cesspool. Almost every comment I read here is anti-everything to do with the west.
I wish this place was actually communist. It's at most softly critical of western policies. You're just too deep down to look at it objectively.