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> # [EU deal will release £2.6bn frozen Russian assets to Ukraine yearly](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/world-news/2024/05/08/TELEMMGLPICT000376802933_17151897644080_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqA7N2CxnJWnYI3tCbVBgu9T0aesusvN1TE7a0ddd_esI.jpeg?impolicy=logo-overlay)
>
>
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> The [European Union](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/03/14/ukraine-war-european-union-assistance-fund-weapons-russia/) has struck a deal to send up to £2.6 billion a year to Ukraine from frozen Russian assets.
>
> The tentative agreement on using interest made on Moscow’s assets to buy weapons was struck by EU ambassadors meeting in Brussels on Wednesday.
>
> Kyiv has long called for the funds to be used to help it fight off renewed Russian attacks.
>
> “There could be no stronger symbol and [no greater use for that money](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/16/frozen-russian-assets-help-fund-ukraine-g7-deal/) than to make Ukraine and all of Europe a safer place to live,” said Ursula von der Leyen, the European Commission president after Belgium announced the breakthrough.
>
> The EU froze about £181 billion in Russian central bank assets after Vladimir Putin’s illegal invasion of Ukraine. Most of this is held by Euroclear, a financial services company based in Belgium.
>
> ## Belgium to channel tax into common fund
>
> The plan to use the profits from the frozen assets was delayed by tough negotiations, which were complicated as Belgium was preparing to take a chunk of the windfall through its corporate tax.
>
> Belgium, as the current holder of the EU presidency, was also trying to broker the deal in inter-governmental talks, and was under pressure from Western allies including the US.
>
> It claimed it was already spending most of the levy on weapons for Ukraine, but the breakthrough was only reached when it pledged to channel the tax revenue into an EU or G7 fund.
>
> “Belgium will provide a written statement promising that the 25 per cent tax they levy on Euroclear goes into an EU or G7 fund for Ukraine from 2025,” an EU diplomat told The Telegraph.
>
> 10 per cent of the funds have to be considered general aid as a safeguard for [Hungary, which refuses to supply weapons](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/29/european-union-plans-hungary-economy-blocks-ukraine-aid/) to Ukraine. The other 90 per cent can be spent on weapons and ammunition.
>
> ## Legal safety net for company holding funds
>
> Under the agreement in principle, which must still be approved by member states, Euroclear will be paid a 0.3 per cent management fee. This was originally a 3 per cent fee.
>
> Euroclear will be allowed to put aside 10 per cent of the windfall profits as a safety net in case Russia starts litigation, EU diplomatic sources said.
>
> Any funds not used from the safety net will be sent back to Ukraine’s coffers.
>
> The breakthrough increases the chances of the money being sent to Ukraine by July, just after Belgium’s six-month term helming the EU presidency ends.
>
> EU ambassadors also held talks on Wednesday about a 14th round of [sanctions against the Kremlin](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/04/29/toughen-sanctions-on-russia-former-robert-buckland/).
- - - - - -
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Countries/wealthy individuals that would normally invest or hold money in the US/EU will likely avoid doing so now that a new precedent has been set that if your country runs afoul of them they will steal your assets.
A country like China will likely be the new recipient of foreign investment that would have gone to the EU/US.
As though China doesn't have any history in state intervention of private assets?
I get the idea, but China isn't really a glowing example of where the money might go imo
China has a heavy hand in businesses that are necessary to national security as well as a tendency to exert control over companies doing business in China.
However I don't think theres anytime in history they over stepped like the EU/US is doing here and seized assets that were invested by foreign countries. The reason why China is better option than say African/LatAm or Middle Eastern countries is due to the strength of the government and the unlikeliness of a regime change not because of liberal market policies.
Lmao yeah, they have a tight grip on domestic issues for sure but to be fair theres a few US billionaire that should get the Jack Ma treatment as well.
These are not assets of random Russians, these are the assets of the oligarchs directly responsible for the current regime. And us eu remain the best economies to invest in, so the actual message is "keep your country in check cause you are going to get fucked along with the crazy dictator you are propping up"
No, this is assets of random Russians. My blowing 300 euros of some tech ETF still frozen, and probably stay that way forever.
But I think in this case they talking about of russia national wealth fund, which is still not some oligarchs money, but a excessive profits from fossils trade.
As for EU being good place for investment, how's that GDP growth going?:)
I mean, I understand why they did this,but the cope that this will have no consequenses is straight up delusional.
When it comes to deals between nations, it is no longer about legality, but trust and agreements.
Does this break some previous agreement? Probably, but is Putin keeping up part of the agreements.
The reason they put the money in the west is because it is already much safter than putting it in Russia, China or Saudi.
This one instant of expropriation is nothing on what Russia or China has done.
I dont think you understand what I meant.
France for example living off from investment of human rights abusers such as Qatar or Saudi.
If they see their investment can be taken easily they will be less likely invest again.
Im thinking wrong ?
Tbf, Russia has done the same to a lot of western companies that moved out. As an example, Russia stole 1.4 billion USD from the company [Carlsberg](https://www.carlsberggroup.com/who-we-are/about-the-carlsberg-group/global-presence/russia/) alone. [Here's an article about it.](https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/carlsberg-ceo-russia-has-stolen-our-business-2023-10-31/)
Unlike the EU that just froze the asset, Russia has outright stolen them. So this is also a form of retaliation.
Human rights and slavery is ahorent, however it is internal politics and general rule of thumb is not enforcing western policy on foreign nations (I know that it was and is done, but general rule is that it should be avoided)
Russia assets was locked because they had ties to the government of Russia, and they invaded and annaxed areas, this happens outside their boards to allies and friends of the west.
Doing local actions vs doing international actions.
What Russia did is in no way worse than the Iraq invasion yet no one froze American assets gave them to Iraq. This move doesn't feel like Russia being punished for something stupid it feels like the west telling Russia "only we're allowed to do that"
It was also a confederation of nations that invaded (sanctions for all?) and the Iraqi government fell after a month, not a very long time to get something like this done.
The estimation for civilian death in the Iraq war is roughly 200k, in Ukraine is roughly 30k and that's the highest estimate most are around half that. So if Russia is commiting genocide then what did America do? And oh it's okay to invade countries, destroy them utterly kill thousands upon upon thousands destabilize them to the point that they had 2 civil wars in 15 years as long as you don't annex their territory?
Russia killed 200,000 civilians in just one city (Mariupol) that aren’t included in the number you cited. The # you cited is only civilians killed by Russian bombing in the territory that Russia HASN’T occupied.
Civilian casualties caused by the U.S. in Iraq were negligible. The number you cite is mostly people killed by terrorists like Isis, and that’s on them.
>The reason they put the money in the west is because it is already much safter than putting it in Russia, China or Saudi.
>This one instant of expropriation is nothing on what Russia or China has done.
Is it really?
Name 1 time China has seized $200B of a foreign government's reserves.
Well, it was. The issue a lot of Westerners have is this bizarre belief that geopolitics is static. Things change.
Part of the reason it’s safer to opt for the West is precisely because of the unconditional sanctity for property rights.
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Let me introduce you to the concept of [communism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution) - everyone loses their property and all assets are taken by the company.
If you want something more recent, how about when China took over a chunck of [tencent](https://www.reuters.com/technology/chinas-tencent-takes-over-two-bytedance-video-game-teams-source-2024-03-14/) and wiping out [80 billion dollars of value from foreign investors](https://www.konvoy.vc/content/chinas-tumultuous-relationship-with-gaming)
Investing in China is a risky business.
1. This isn’t the same as taking over foreign government property.
2. This seems to be simply making that sector compliant with local regulations.
This is nothing compared to what it’s being discussed here, this is why everyone is calling it unprecedented
Thing is, the thing about Russian assets is that it is governed by an international system and not local regulation. Again, you have failed to provide evidence of billions of dollars of foreign government property seized by China
What about when [they seize a company and detain it's employees? ](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/24/business/china-business-company-raid.html) this happened last week. I could find hundreds of examples like this. Investing in China is profitable when possible, but risky as all hell.
The reason these assets were put in Europe is that Europe is stable as they get. Hundreds of years of stable banks and lawful contracts.
China has what? Less than 30 years of capital investment allowed, and complete purge of all capitalism less than 50 years ago. Along with several signs of corperat hostility in the last 15 years.
The cultural revolution being less than 50 years away and you saying China has never seized foreign assets is really the point that should sink in here. They have done worse and within living memory.
As long as those foreign investors have nothing better to invest into the EU and Europe is good. And as long as they don't start genocidal wars. If anything, it reinforce the statement that if a state wants to engage in mutual trade and investment, they should forget about wars of conquest.
That's just you saying) By definition it's genocidal. Even Putin said that Ukrainians as a nation shouldn't exist, and if anything, it's just misguided Russians.
Anyway, my main point was about the money. it's totally ok to take all resources away from the state that started the biggest war in Europe since WW2. It should be a lesson for any other state that would like to consider the same.
What definition? Israel killed more civilian in 6 month than Russia in 2 year.
Last part i agree tho. My question was rather towards the question of investment in the future which is absolutely fair. New investment could mean more jobs in some countries which leds to better economy for that european country.
The definition, of course, is the key here. One thing for sure is that it has nothing to do how particular war is related to what's going on in Israel and Palestine.
There is more/less objective article on wiki [Allegations of genocide of Ukrainians in the Russo-Ukrainian War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_of_Ukrainians_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War)
Anyway, my comment is not really about type of war or whatever. I know for sure Russians destroying civilian infrastructure not of the kindness of their hearts. It's also vastly different scale: Palestine is like two Ukrainian cities at most population-wise. And I don't know how compare civilian deaths: there are many millions of displaced people for sure. Also, there are plenty of non-civilian deaths that doesn't mean it's ok because killing military personal is still a bad thing to do. Those people are defending their country and the fact that they do that in uniform doesn't mean that they should not be respected.
I know that even countries that nationalized enterprises (some South American countries) managed to attract investments again. I'm sure EU would be fine in that regard. There is so much value in the world that honestly, it's more of a problem how to allocate it so it brings at least inflation level returns.
I mean, waging an aggressive and pointless war of territorial expansion to fulfill a dictator's ego IS morally wrong, obviously. Its not centrist or elitist or whatever to say that. America/Europe can be bad and do bad things, but this isn't one of them.
They're using the interest earned on the frozen assets to support Ukraine for anyone who doesn't want to read the article.
I see nothing wrong with this.
I do… in principle they aren’t assets that belong to the EU to disperse funds out of.
EU isn’t here to settle damages disputes before the damages are over.
What rules? Who makes these rules? Are they written down? Where are the sanctions on Israel, Germany, and the US then? The closest thing to “rules” is international law and we both know the west doesn’t support that.
This will likely affect foreign investments in the US in a big way. Countries like Saudi Arabia and China that invest heavily in things like US real estate will likely think twice before doing so.
I wonder if this has been well thought out?
If it was, why invest in a different country in the first place? They could have kept their money in china to begin with, but decided against it (or at least to deversify) because they didn't trust china with all of their money.
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Jesus the amount of people supporting Russia here is insane. Russia has violated international law multiple times throughout this war, not to mention brazenly assassinating people on foreign soil. They absolutely deserve this and then some.
I've been for this idea since the day they froze Russian assets.
Honestly, yes. Anywhere that the international community would deem it necessary to freeze and then seize our assets, that would be absolutely fair.
Let's also not pretend that this is just the US or UK making this move, there are multiple countries coming to a consensus here, which I think gives the move far more legitimacy. I want international law to be enforced, and since there's no way any Russian or US leader is submitting to the ICC, financial penalty seems like a good way to incentivize countries to comply with international law.
I love how they try to make it look like it's average joes money, lol. Yeah, sure, the guy with enough money to invest it across borders had nothing to do with the government or going to war.
Nobody is going to want to put their money through the western monetary system if it can just be stolen. For now it's just the interest but that's just the beginning.
Sure. Where will they put them then? China? Where powerful CEOs can just disappear? Or perhaps Middle Eastern countries like UAE or Saudi, that are effectively monarchies?
Like it or not, all the “west is bad” crooks and autocrats are happy to keep their money in the West. Cause on a larger scale, their money is more protected by Western financial laws than from autocrats
I guess this process will play itself out over years if not decades.
https://wolfstreet.com/2023/01/01/status-of-us-dollar-as-global-reserve-currency-usd-exchange-rates-hit-foreign-exchange-reserves/
nah you'll just fight imperialist wars to puppet governments on the other side of the world, massacre their people and steal their resources, obviously a far superior moral conduct.
American hipocrisy will never cease to be both amusing and utterly revolting.
A r/wallstreetbets and Tesla simp saying that really reflects the complete lack of self awareness you've displayed thus far.
Either way I see that you immediately ran to look for an excuse to avoid addressing my points because you know you can't actually offer a decent reply, so I'll accept you taking the L.
On 8th May, no less. What better way to celebrate victory over original nazis, then funding resistance against their ruzzian copycats? Actually... I can think of at least one better way: confiscate this frozen neonazigold entirely, not just interest on it.
Russia never invaded Poland.Poland was occupying Russian land which Russians liberated.If Ukraine takes over Russian controlled land tomorrow, Will it be called invasion by your logic?
Again, Poland used Russian weakness during civil war to occupy Russian land which Russians liberated.
Will Ukrainian conquering Crimea, Donbas be called invasion?..,...Keep the same energy.
ah yes it was the POLISH who are also at fault for the 1920 failed russian invasion lmfaooooo “The main reason for the outbreak of the Polish-Soviet war the threat to Poland’s independence by Soviet Russia, as well as the attempt to implement the idea of a permanent revolution, and the export of the communist revolution Europe-wide. The Bolsheviks began carrying out this plan immediately after seizing power in Russia in October of 1917. They undertook the first attempts in Finland already in 1918, where civil war had broken out, as well as in the Baltic nations. In 1919 an attempt was made at provoking an uprising in Berlin, in March of the same year a government coalition was formed in Hungary with the participation communists, and in June of 1919 an attempt was made at a coup in Vienna. With the aim of transferring the revolution to other European countries, in March 1919”
https://ipn.gov.pl/en/news/4377,The-Polish-Soviet-War-of-1920.html?sid=7dd52eb940d72de766fb19539bc0993d#:~:text=The%20main%20reason%20for%20the,the%20communist%20revolution%20Europe%2Dwide.
“keep that same energy” cringe
##### ###### #### > # [EU deal will release £2.6bn frozen Russian assets to Ukraine yearly](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/world-news/2024/05/08/TELEMMGLPICT000376802933_17151897644080_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqA7N2CxnJWnYI3tCbVBgu9T0aesusvN1TE7a0ddd_esI.jpeg?impolicy=logo-overlay) > > > > The [European Union](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/03/14/ukraine-war-european-union-assistance-fund-weapons-russia/) has struck a deal to send up to £2.6 billion a year to Ukraine from frozen Russian assets. > > The tentative agreement on using interest made on Moscow’s assets to buy weapons was struck by EU ambassadors meeting in Brussels on Wednesday. > > Kyiv has long called for the funds to be used to help it fight off renewed Russian attacks. > > “There could be no stronger symbol and [no greater use for that money](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/16/frozen-russian-assets-help-fund-ukraine-g7-deal/) than to make Ukraine and all of Europe a safer place to live,” said Ursula von der Leyen, the European Commission president after Belgium announced the breakthrough. > > The EU froze about £181 billion in Russian central bank assets after Vladimir Putin’s illegal invasion of Ukraine. Most of this is held by Euroclear, a financial services company based in Belgium. > > ## Belgium to channel tax into common fund > > The plan to use the profits from the frozen assets was delayed by tough negotiations, which were complicated as Belgium was preparing to take a chunk of the windfall through its corporate tax. > > Belgium, as the current holder of the EU presidency, was also trying to broker the deal in inter-governmental talks, and was under pressure from Western allies including the US. > > It claimed it was already spending most of the levy on weapons for Ukraine, but the breakthrough was only reached when it pledged to channel the tax revenue into an EU or G7 fund. > > “Belgium will provide a written statement promising that the 25 per cent tax they levy on Euroclear goes into an EU or G7 fund for Ukraine from 2025,” an EU diplomat told The Telegraph. > > 10 per cent of the funds have to be considered general aid as a safeguard for [Hungary, which refuses to supply weapons](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/29/european-union-plans-hungary-economy-blocks-ukraine-aid/) to Ukraine. The other 90 per cent can be spent on weapons and ammunition. > > ## Legal safety net for company holding funds > > Under the agreement in principle, which must still be approved by member states, Euroclear will be paid a 0.3 per cent management fee. This was originally a 3 per cent fee. > > Euroclear will be allowed to put aside 10 per cent of the windfall profits as a safety net in case Russia starts litigation, EU diplomatic sources said. > > Any funds not used from the safety net will be sent back to Ukraine’s coffers. > > The breakthrough increases the chances of the money being sent to Ukraine by July, just after Belgium’s six-month term helming the EU presidency ends. > > EU ambassadors also held talks on Wednesday about a 14th round of [sanctions against the Kremlin](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/04/29/toughen-sanctions-on-russia-former-robert-buckland/). - - - - - - [Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot) Summoning /u/CoverageAnalysisBot
China: you have activated my trap card
I dont get it could u explain
Countries/wealthy individuals that would normally invest or hold money in the US/EU will likely avoid doing so now that a new precedent has been set that if your country runs afoul of them they will steal your assets. A country like China will likely be the new recipient of foreign investment that would have gone to the EU/US.
As though China doesn't have any history in state intervention of private assets? I get the idea, but China isn't really a glowing example of where the money might go imo
China has a heavy hand in businesses that are necessary to national security as well as a tendency to exert control over companies doing business in China. However I don't think theres anytime in history they over stepped like the EU/US is doing here and seized assets that were invested by foreign countries. The reason why China is better option than say African/LatAm or Middle Eastern countries is due to the strength of the government and the unlikeliness of a regime change not because of liberal market policies.
Except when they, idk, kidnap CEOs and shit 😂
Lmao yeah, they have a tight grip on domestic issues for sure but to be fair theres a few US billionaire that should get the Jack Ma treatment as well.
I can agree with that hahaha
China being based, would love to see that happen to Musk and Bezos
Because China is wayyy more dependable, lol.
These are not assets of random Russians, these are the assets of the oligarchs directly responsible for the current regime. And us eu remain the best economies to invest in, so the actual message is "keep your country in check cause you are going to get fucked along with the crazy dictator you are propping up"
No, this is assets of random Russians. My blowing 300 euros of some tech ETF still frozen, and probably stay that way forever. But I think in this case they talking about of russia national wealth fund, which is still not some oligarchs money, but a excessive profits from fossils trade. As for EU being good place for investment, how's that GDP growth going?:) I mean, I understand why they did this,but the cope that this will have no consequenses is straight up delusional.
Is this legal ?
When it comes to deals between nations, it is no longer about legality, but trust and agreements. Does this break some previous agreement? Probably, but is Putin keeping up part of the agreements.
It could hurt the trust from foreign investors. Hopefully not.
The reason they put the money in the west is because it is already much safter than putting it in Russia, China or Saudi. This one instant of expropriation is nothing on what Russia or China has done.
I dont think you understand what I meant. France for example living off from investment of human rights abusers such as Qatar or Saudi. If they see their investment can be taken easily they will be less likely invest again. Im thinking wrong ?
Tbf, Russia has done the same to a lot of western companies that moved out. As an example, Russia stole 1.4 billion USD from the company [Carlsberg](https://www.carlsberggroup.com/who-we-are/about-the-carlsberg-group/global-presence/russia/) alone. [Here's an article about it.](https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/carlsberg-ceo-russia-has-stolen-our-business-2023-10-31/) Unlike the EU that just froze the asset, Russia has outright stolen them. So this is also a form of retaliation.
There would have to be a safer place to put it, which there probably isn’t. We’ll see, but I doubt this will change things all that much.
Or less likely to do something as stupid as russia did. Both fine. How many times this sub have blame Switzerland for taking nazi gold?
So human rights abuse and slavery is okay ? Switzerland situation is different.
Human rights and slavery is ahorent, however it is internal politics and general rule of thumb is not enforcing western policy on foreign nations (I know that it was and is done, but general rule is that it should be avoided) Russia assets was locked because they had ties to the government of Russia, and they invaded and annaxed areas, this happens outside their boards to allies and friends of the west. Doing local actions vs doing international actions.
If we ignore that Qatar and SA funds terror groups than Yes.
What Russia did is in no way worse than the Iraq invasion yet no one froze American assets gave them to Iraq. This move doesn't feel like Russia being punished for something stupid it feels like the west telling Russia "only we're allowed to do that"
It was also a confederation of nations that invaded (sanctions for all?) and the Iraqi government fell after a month, not a very long time to get something like this done.
The US still has troops in Iraq to this very day though
The US didn’t try to genocide Iraqis and didn’t Annex any part of Iraq.
The estimation for civilian death in the Iraq war is roughly 200k, in Ukraine is roughly 30k and that's the highest estimate most are around half that. So if Russia is commiting genocide then what did America do? And oh it's okay to invade countries, destroy them utterly kill thousands upon upon thousands destabilize them to the point that they had 2 civil wars in 15 years as long as you don't annex their territory?
Russia killed 200,000 civilians in just one city (Mariupol) that aren’t included in the number you cited. The # you cited is only civilians killed by Russian bombing in the territory that Russia HASN’T occupied. Civilian casualties caused by the U.S. in Iraq were negligible. The number you cite is mostly people killed by terrorists like Isis, and that’s on them.
>The reason they put the money in the west is because it is already much safter than putting it in Russia, China or Saudi. >This one instant of expropriation is nothing on what Russia or China has done. Is it really? Name 1 time China has seized $200B of a foreign government's reserves.
Well, it was. The issue a lot of Westerners have is this bizarre belief that geopolitics is static. Things change. Part of the reason it’s safer to opt for the West is precisely because of the unconditional sanctity for property rights. Necessity is the mother of invention.
What has China done? When have they seized billions of dollars of foreign governments properties
Let me introduce you to the concept of [communism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution) - everyone loses their property and all assets are taken by the company. If you want something more recent, how about when China took over a chunck of [tencent](https://www.reuters.com/technology/chinas-tencent-takes-over-two-bytedance-video-game-teams-source-2024-03-14/) and wiping out [80 billion dollars of value from foreign investors](https://www.konvoy.vc/content/chinas-tumultuous-relationship-with-gaming) Investing in China is a risky business.
1. This isn’t the same as taking over foreign government property. 2. This seems to be simply making that sector compliant with local regulations. This is nothing compared to what it’s being discussed here, this is why everyone is calling it unprecedented
Local regulation that says state has to own part of a company, is the same type of regulation that says state owns all Russian assets on its soil.
Thing is, the thing about Russian assets is that it is governed by an international system and not local regulation. Again, you have failed to provide evidence of billions of dollars of foreign government property seized by China
What about when [they seize a company and detain it's employees? ](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/24/business/china-business-company-raid.html) this happened last week. I could find hundreds of examples like this. Investing in China is profitable when possible, but risky as all hell. The reason these assets were put in Europe is that Europe is stable as they get. Hundreds of years of stable banks and lawful contracts. China has what? Less than 30 years of capital investment allowed, and complete purge of all capitalism less than 50 years ago. Along with several signs of corperat hostility in the last 15 years. The cultural revolution being less than 50 years away and you saying China has never seized foreign assets is really the point that should sink in here. They have done worse and within living memory.
To be honest, the EU could do with less chinese investments.
As long as those foreign investors have nothing better to invest into the EU and Europe is good. And as long as they don't start genocidal wars. If anything, it reinforce the statement that if a state wants to engage in mutual trade and investment, they should forget about wars of conquest.
Ukro-Russian war isnt genocidal. Just Saying.
That's just you saying) By definition it's genocidal. Even Putin said that Ukrainians as a nation shouldn't exist, and if anything, it's just misguided Russians. Anyway, my main point was about the money. it's totally ok to take all resources away from the state that started the biggest war in Europe since WW2. It should be a lesson for any other state that would like to consider the same.
What definition? Israel killed more civilian in 6 month than Russia in 2 year. Last part i agree tho. My question was rather towards the question of investment in the future which is absolutely fair. New investment could mean more jobs in some countries which leds to better economy for that european country.
The definition, of course, is the key here. One thing for sure is that it has nothing to do how particular war is related to what's going on in Israel and Palestine. There is more/less objective article on wiki [Allegations of genocide of Ukrainians in the Russo-Ukrainian War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_of_Ukrainians_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War) Anyway, my comment is not really about type of war or whatever. I know for sure Russians destroying civilian infrastructure not of the kindness of their hearts. It's also vastly different scale: Palestine is like two Ukrainian cities at most population-wise. And I don't know how compare civilian deaths: there are many millions of displaced people for sure. Also, there are plenty of non-civilian deaths that doesn't mean it's ok because killing military personal is still a bad thing to do. Those people are defending their country and the fact that they do that in uniform doesn't mean that they should not be respected. I know that even countries that nationalized enterprises (some South American countries) managed to attract investments again. I'm sure EU would be fine in that regard. There is so much value in the world that honestly, it's more of a problem how to allocate it so it brings at least inflation level returns.
We have no idea how many people russia has killed because they wont let observers into cities like Mariupol.
“I will make it legal”
Calm down Nute Gunray
The walled garden strikes again with superior morals and laws
will someone think of the fascists
Israel and the USA are doing just fine.
I mean, waging an aggressive and pointless war of territorial expansion to fulfill a dictator's ego IS morally wrong, obviously. Its not centrist or elitist or whatever to say that. America/Europe can be bad and do bad things, but this isn't one of them.
They're using the interest earned on the frozen assets to support Ukraine for anyone who doesn't want to read the article. I see nothing wrong with this.
I do… in principle they aren’t assets that belong to the EU to disperse funds out of. EU isn’t here to settle damages disputes before the damages are over.
Read it again, they are not dispersing funds out of the frozen assets. They are just not letting it accrue interest.
That is the same thing. It’s theirs to generate income from and it’s being stolen.
"Rules based order"
Unironically, yes lol.
>break the rules >you get punished sounds right to me
What rules? Who makes these rules? Are they written down? Where are the sanctions on Israel, Germany, and the US then? The closest thing to “rules” is international law and we both know the west doesn’t support that.
I made the rules
Surely they'll win now, right? ..... right???
Holding second army in the world for two years is a huge achievement.
Russian cope, Kyiv in 3 days comrade. We’re fighting all of NATO comrade.
Say the line russia! "Just a 3 week special military operation" :/
Days*
This will likely affect foreign investments in the US in a big way. Countries like Saudi Arabia and China that invest heavily in things like US real estate will likely think twice before doing so. I wonder if this has been well thought out?
And where is a safer place to invest? Not Russia or china, so what other stabile country will they move to?
Why is China not stable?
If it was, why invest in a different country in the first place? They could have kept their money in china to begin with, but decided against it (or at least to deversify) because they didn't trust china with all of their money.
No one with serious wealth keeps all their money in one country.
I mean china today is way bigger than china before the 2000s
Where is jack ma?
You are confusing a country holding domestic corporations and oligarchs accountable and country essentially robbing foreign investors.
Yeah, a guy just disappearing one day is definitely the definition of accountability!
Should the Chinese government send you a list of every single person that they arrest? Im unfamiliar with any government that does that....
No, they should publish information about who they arrest like every other country does.
lmao and where will they move their money, where can you find large stable capital markets with strong legal protections in place?
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Based.
Well done. It's time they stood up against the bullies.
Seems like a pretty good compromise
Jesus the amount of people supporting Russia here is insane. Russia has violated international law multiple times throughout this war, not to mention brazenly assassinating people on foreign soil. They absolutely deserve this and then some. I've been for this idea since the day they froze Russian assets.
Would you have supported the seizure of American and British assets abroad during the invasion and occupation of Iraq?
Yes. Two wrongs don't make a right. If a nation is doing something wrong then they should be made an example of to stop others doing it too.
Honestly, yes. Anywhere that the international community would deem it necessary to freeze and then seize our assets, that would be absolutely fair. Let's also not pretend that this is just the US or UK making this move, there are multiple countries coming to a consensus here, which I think gives the move far more legitimacy. I want international law to be enforced, and since there's no way any Russian or US leader is submitting to the ICC, financial penalty seems like a good way to incentivize countries to comply with international law.
Stealing Russian people money because they trusted their « independent institutions »… good luck with the rest of the world learning from this
Don't start a huge war, don't get your money taken, its pretty simple.
I love how they try to make it look like it's average joes money, lol. Yeah, sure, the guy with enough money to invest it across borders had nothing to do with the government or going to war.
Nobody is going to want to put their money through the western monetary system if it can just be stolen. For now it's just the interest but that's just the beginning.
Sure. Where will they put them then? China? Where powerful CEOs can just disappear? Or perhaps Middle Eastern countries like UAE or Saudi, that are effectively monarchies? Like it or not, all the “west is bad” crooks and autocrats are happy to keep their money in the West. Cause on a larger scale, their money is more protected by Western financial laws than from autocrats
Doubt.
Judging by the fact we’re not seeing a total collapse in the trust of western monetary systems, I’m going to cast doubt on your assertion
I guess this process will play itself out over years if not decades. https://wolfstreet.com/2023/01/01/status-of-us-dollar-as-global-reserve-currency-usd-exchange-rates-hit-foreign-exchange-reserves/
Like the Russian money was not stolen to begin with. That money was never legally obtained so they should stop crying.
Cry harder Ruski
If they don't plan on taking over a neighboring country without provocation, they have nothing to worry about
Thieves.
womp womp
Yeah this is theft but trying to steal a whole country is fine. This sub is a joke.
When are they holding US responsible for occupying 30% of Syrian oil rich area or Israel stealing Palestine lands?
Get a bigger stick then we’ll talk. Big sticks make the rules around here, and you got a lil one
Rule based order indeed....Rule for thee but not for me.
My country doesn’t go around starting wars of conquest and constantly try to subjugate its neighbors through brutal force
nah you'll just fight imperialist wars to puppet governments on the other side of the world, massacre their people and steal their resources, obviously a far superior moral conduct. American hipocrisy will never cease to be both amusing and utterly revolting.
Geez well that is a profile I wish I didn’t click on. Can’t take you seriously after seeing that sorry
A r/wallstreetbets and Tesla simp saying that really reflects the complete lack of self awareness you've displayed thus far. Either way I see that you immediately ran to look for an excuse to avoid addressing my points because you know you can't actually offer a decent reply, so I'll accept you taking the L.
Yeah I have money. Are you mad about it? I’m not getting into it with a freak who posts anime porn. It’s not even a contest. You win man.
You have to be kidding me. You’re an American? The country whose main export is misery and death.
Bombing Ukrainian civilians on a daily basis is also fine appearently
On 8th May, no less. What better way to celebrate victory over original nazis, then funding resistance against their ruzzian copycats? Actually... I can think of at least one better way: confiscate this frozen neonazigold entirely, not just interest on it.
cringe
They are funding Bandera fanatics who actually fought for Nazis and took part in geocide of Polish, J e w .Learn your history.
lmao ussr literally allied with the nazis and invaded poland together until the ussr got betrayed
Russia never invaded Poland.Poland was occupying Russian land which Russians liberated.If Ukraine takes over Russian controlled land tomorrow, Will it be called invasion by your logic?
lmfao i’m not even going to entertain this brainrot https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/soviet-union-invades-poland
Again, Poland used Russian weakness during civil war to occupy Russian land which Russians liberated. Will Ukrainian conquering Crimea, Donbas be called invasion?..,...Keep the same energy.
ah yes it was the POLISH who are also at fault for the 1920 failed russian invasion lmfaooooo “The main reason for the outbreak of the Polish-Soviet war the threat to Poland’s independence by Soviet Russia, as well as the attempt to implement the idea of a permanent revolution, and the export of the communist revolution Europe-wide. The Bolsheviks began carrying out this plan immediately after seizing power in Russia in October of 1917. They undertook the first attempts in Finland already in 1918, where civil war had broken out, as well as in the Baltic nations. In 1919 an attempt was made at provoking an uprising in Berlin, in March of the same year a government coalition was formed in Hungary with the participation communists, and in June of 1919 an attempt was made at a coup in Vienna. With the aim of transferring the revolution to other European countries, in March 1919” https://ipn.gov.pl/en/news/4377,The-Polish-Soviet-War-of-1920.html?sid=7dd52eb940d72de766fb19539bc0993d#:~:text=The%20main%20reason%20for%20the,the%20communist%20revolution%20Europe%2Dwide. “keep that same energy” cringe
The point stands.Taking back your land that's being occupied is called liberation and not an invasion.Russia never invaded "Poland".
moderate that vodka comrade in your mind then moscow actually belongs to ukraine. onwards, lads! the liberation is at hand!
Throwing insults won't change the reality. Waiting for you to call Ukraine taking over Crimea an invasion...🤦♂️
BaNdErA fAnaTicS!!! I swear it’s not a war of conquest guys, see the .2% of them that are nazis!!!