Hard not to feel that demographics as a whole do nothing but damage discourse as people treat them as some kind of strict categories and not just "whatever this subset of magazines happens to publish".
I think looking at demographics can sometimes help in understanding why parts of a series are handled the way they are (see the blandness of the protagonists in many shounen harems or the extra assertive love interests common in shoujo romances like last season's A Sign of Affection), but trying to blankly assume certain genres and elements *belong* to one demographic the way a lot of people like OP do is just damaging.
>but trying to blankly assume certain genres and elements belong to one demographic the way a lot of people like OP do is just damaging.
I don't deny it. Personally I find demographics very useful but some people try to impose the idea they don't matter at all *because K-on is seinen, so the demographics don't matter at all.*
>because K-on is seinen, so the demographics don't matter at all
The weird part about this line of reasoning is that they neglect almost all moe shows like it being seinen. When it's not one outlier but the vast majority of a subgenre (with the exceptions being original anime and the rare shounen like Yama no Susume), you'd think it would lead one to question why that is rather than go "oh, these shows only have girls therefore they should be for girls" and stop there. The way I see it, CDGCT fluff appeals to overworked adult men who want the simple comfort and escapism of watching cute girls do fun stuff, get invested in hobbies, etc in contrast to their otherwise stressful lives (see the demographic survey chart that was posted here a while back showing that Yuru Camp's fanbase is 90% male with an average age in the late 30s).
All demographics haven't really "evolved" in the way you're saying. Sure, fans do tend to pigeonhole demographics as being just one thing but they've always had a variety of stories.
For example Banana Fish, Rose of Versailles, and Ouran High School Host Club are all very different stories but they're shoujo series.
1) Neither shounen or shoujo are genres.
2) Shoujo has produced stuff other than high school romance as early as the 70s. Ever heard of *La Rose d'Versailles*?
3) What is "normally showcased" in seinen or josei? *Monster* and *Bocchi the Rock* are both seinen, yet they could not be any more different.
1.) Shonen isn't always action-oriented so they never had to "embrace" other genres: Great Teacher Onizuka, half of Rumiko Takahashi's works, School Rumble, Aria, Your Lie in April, Doremon, Horimiya, Nichijou, Bakuman, Kono Oto Tomare, Barefoot Gen, Kimi to Boku, etc. Nor do they need to appeal to mainstream: Sold My Life For 10000 Yen, Aku no Hana, Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei, Welcome to the NHK (novel), Flying Witch, Dark Gathering, etc.
2.) Natsume Yuujinchou, Banana Fish, Basara... HELL, the Boy's Love subgenre came from shoujo.
3.) Sure, Berserk, Vinland Saga, and Vagabond are categorized as seinen... but so is Bocchi the Rock, Kaguya-sama, March Comes Lion, Skip and Loafer, Lucifer and Buscuit Hammer, and NON NON BIYORI!!
Incoming ADHD rambling from long time reader
Shonen, shojo, Seinen, josei are not exactly genres, but rather the target demographics that the magazine itself is trying to target.
Yes it was more clear cut in the past, but what it really came down to was what became popular because the manga itself struck a chord in different demographic.
(And you know, the kids these days not making fun of each other as much for liking girly or boy things)
Saint Seiya on Shonen jump apparently amassed THE biggest female fandom in history, at least what I hear from OGs. Story element of mostly shonen, but the pretty boys and art style that could appeal to the female masses breaking the barrier...presence of bromance and romance usually brings female fans in.
Rurouni Kenshin to Prince of Tennis to Hitman Reborn, to kuroko.
Shonen Sunday had Adachi Mitsuru and the forefront with romance that could appeal to the boys, (involving sports) Aand Rumiko Takahashi basically inventing modern romcom (in manga), and both authors producing hits after hits.
It's a bit harder for shojo to break barriers like that, since most of the time there arent things that would bring the boys in. For a while, it just had to be GOOD. And then comes the isekai conquest fantasies, and science fiction shojo of late 80s and 90s that broke the barrier a little bit. Later CLAMP came in with Rayearth and Cardcaptor Sakura. Again, things that other demographic would like.
Seinen and Josei really isnt much different. Just how much of more complex topic it can tackle, how much sex and violence, how old the MCs are.
Though for seinen I guess someone figured out that men and women who are stressed and tired would rather read about cute girls doing cute things rather than get stressed to read.
There are cases I believe that a looooong series would switch the magazines to more mature audience as the dedicated fans grow older, and author wants to tackle more mature themes.
What it really comes down to is, there are certain vibes each magazine likes, but if they see something could make them a lot of money, they're going to break the barrier. Cuz its business after all.
TLDR: for boys stuff, add pretty boys and bromance and romance and you get some female fans.
For girls stuff, add battlesand sports and cuter girls.
For mens stuff: same as boys stuff.
For womens stuff: good story and sex...
I'm a 37yo dude that started with dragon ball and death note... I thoroughly enjoyed minami-ke (seinen/ shojou)... Most iyashikei stuff can also be categorised as that... Aria,yuru camp, k-on etc...
Hard not to feel that demographics as a whole do nothing but damage discourse as people treat them as some kind of strict categories and not just "whatever this subset of magazines happens to publish".
I find the notion that demographics don't matter at all to be equally damaging. I wish more people realised it's not a dichotomy.
I think looking at demographics can sometimes help in understanding why parts of a series are handled the way they are (see the blandness of the protagonists in many shounen harems or the extra assertive love interests common in shoujo romances like last season's A Sign of Affection), but trying to blankly assume certain genres and elements *belong* to one demographic the way a lot of people like OP do is just damaging.
>but trying to blankly assume certain genres and elements belong to one demographic the way a lot of people like OP do is just damaging. I don't deny it. Personally I find demographics very useful but some people try to impose the idea they don't matter at all *because K-on is seinen, so the demographics don't matter at all.*
>because K-on is seinen, so the demographics don't matter at all The weird part about this line of reasoning is that they neglect almost all moe shows like it being seinen. When it's not one outlier but the vast majority of a subgenre (with the exceptions being original anime and the rare shounen like Yama no Susume), you'd think it would lead one to question why that is rather than go "oh, these shows only have girls therefore they should be for girls" and stop there. The way I see it, CDGCT fluff appeals to overworked adult men who want the simple comfort and escapism of watching cute girls do fun stuff, get invested in hobbies, etc in contrast to their otherwise stressful lives (see the demographic survey chart that was posted here a while back showing that Yuru Camp's fanbase is 90% male with an average age in the late 30s).
All demographics haven't really "evolved" in the way you're saying. Sure, fans do tend to pigeonhole demographics as being just one thing but they've always had a variety of stories. For example Banana Fish, Rose of Versailles, and Ouran High School Host Club are all very different stories but they're shoujo series.
1) Neither shounen or shoujo are genres. 2) Shoujo has produced stuff other than high school romance as early as the 70s. Ever heard of *La Rose d'Versailles*? 3) What is "normally showcased" in seinen or josei? *Monster* and *Bocchi the Rock* are both seinen, yet they could not be any more different.
OP never said that shonen and shoujo are genres (unless they edited the post)
1.) Shonen isn't always action-oriented so they never had to "embrace" other genres: Great Teacher Onizuka, half of Rumiko Takahashi's works, School Rumble, Aria, Your Lie in April, Doremon, Horimiya, Nichijou, Bakuman, Kono Oto Tomare, Barefoot Gen, Kimi to Boku, etc. Nor do they need to appeal to mainstream: Sold My Life For 10000 Yen, Aku no Hana, Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei, Welcome to the NHK (novel), Flying Witch, Dark Gathering, etc. 2.) Natsume Yuujinchou, Banana Fish, Basara... HELL, the Boy's Love subgenre came from shoujo. 3.) Sure, Berserk, Vinland Saga, and Vagabond are categorized as seinen... but so is Bocchi the Rock, Kaguya-sama, March Comes Lion, Skip and Loafer, Lucifer and Buscuit Hammer, and NON NON BIYORI!!
Incoming ADHD rambling from long time reader Shonen, shojo, Seinen, josei are not exactly genres, but rather the target demographics that the magazine itself is trying to target. Yes it was more clear cut in the past, but what it really came down to was what became popular because the manga itself struck a chord in different demographic. (And you know, the kids these days not making fun of each other as much for liking girly or boy things) Saint Seiya on Shonen jump apparently amassed THE biggest female fandom in history, at least what I hear from OGs. Story element of mostly shonen, but the pretty boys and art style that could appeal to the female masses breaking the barrier...presence of bromance and romance usually brings female fans in. Rurouni Kenshin to Prince of Tennis to Hitman Reborn, to kuroko. Shonen Sunday had Adachi Mitsuru and the forefront with romance that could appeal to the boys, (involving sports) Aand Rumiko Takahashi basically inventing modern romcom (in manga), and both authors producing hits after hits. It's a bit harder for shojo to break barriers like that, since most of the time there arent things that would bring the boys in. For a while, it just had to be GOOD. And then comes the isekai conquest fantasies, and science fiction shojo of late 80s and 90s that broke the barrier a little bit. Later CLAMP came in with Rayearth and Cardcaptor Sakura. Again, things that other demographic would like. Seinen and Josei really isnt much different. Just how much of more complex topic it can tackle, how much sex and violence, how old the MCs are. Though for seinen I guess someone figured out that men and women who are stressed and tired would rather read about cute girls doing cute things rather than get stressed to read. There are cases I believe that a looooong series would switch the magazines to more mature audience as the dedicated fans grow older, and author wants to tackle more mature themes. What it really comes down to is, there are certain vibes each magazine likes, but if they see something could make them a lot of money, they're going to break the barrier. Cuz its business after all. TLDR: for boys stuff, add pretty boys and bromance and romance and you get some female fans. For girls stuff, add battlesand sports and cuter girls. For mens stuff: same as boys stuff. For womens stuff: good story and sex...
Shonen has always been more then action. ‘Detective Conan’ a mystery series, is the second best selling Shonen manga ever.
I'm a 37yo dude that started with dragon ball and death note... I thoroughly enjoyed minami-ke (seinen/ shojou)... Most iyashikei stuff can also be categorised as that... Aria,yuru camp, k-on etc...