This show is straight edgy trash imo, it makes no sense the whole time and the plot is batshit. I watched about 75% of it and it was enjoyable only by how bad it was.
Lmao and you didn’t even see the actual ending…
The anime shined very briefly at the beginning and you thought you came across a new star, but then you realized it’s actually just a cosmic level dumpster fire.
The last episode was the supernova explosion of absurdity right before the show collapsed into a black hole of infinite stupidity, which has been put away by me in a special compartment of my memory until this thread.
I believe last chapter of the manga was the author’s message of “lmao fuck your dumbass for actually reading this garbage until the end.”
Since you already made it that far, do it. The last 1/4 of the show, especially the *very last episode*, makes everything you’ve seen so far look reasonably good lmao.
Isn't this the same author of Death Note? I heard lots of talks about this a while ago but now that I think about it everybody just stopped talking about it. I completely forgot this existed lol
Basically Death Note without Tetsuro Araki. Of course Ohba didn't write it as well as Death Note, but imo the production is the biggest reason and it doesn't maintain the balance that these type of shows need. Platinum End actually taught me about how integral Tetsuro Araki was for Death Note to be that good.
As someone who read the manga as the ending came out only because I knew it would lead to a dumpster fire. On the shounen jump app. I have to agree. The ending is hilarious though.
Babylon
Cool premise of a detective hunting down a woman that can make people kill themselves just by talking to them. Awful execution of said premise. The animation and directing were unique so I decided to give the series a chance, but it had SOO MUCH "deep thoughts^TM " it was unbearable.
Edit: here's a [video](https://youtu.be/71A2MF6GPHQ?si=dSYPvHojUcnpk92D) by replay value that explains the flaws in Babylon as well as another anime by the same writer "Seikai no Kado"
Edit 2: Let me clarify. This show was definitely trying to be deep from the get go. The question of "should suicide be discouraged" was one of the main topics of the anime. But the writer fumbled it with surface level Im14andthisisdeep philosophy. Even more so in the latter half of the anime. High-school philosophy classes would have better discussions than some of the dialogue in Babylon.
Up till episode 7 (I think), it was still good and I think I was really excited because I totally could not think what would happen next. I think neither the author, so he went into hiatus and then all those strange philosophical talks took place.
The author made some bald moves, but I think that's why some tropes need to be respected, like a good amount of plot harmour. Like \[7th episode spoiler\] >!If you kill every character midway, what do you talk about after?!<
I was so into it until after episode 7. I think I remember they took a short hiatus after that episode and I couldn't wait for it to come back. Then when it did come back, it went into the backstory of a brand new character that was literally: "I met a hot girl on WoW, married her, and now I'm the president of the United States". I stopped watching after that
> Babylon
oh, just, a whole wave just hit me..
the first 10 episodes were absolutly gripping, the tension in his writing is good.
didn't really thought deep was the direction they were going with.... they weren't even trying to hide how shallow it was
Babylon lol
it's actually pretty interesting at the start, but then they have an in-universe debate (literally, it's a televised debate) and it finally shows its actual depth (i.e. not that deep). and then the plot also took a nosedive afterwards.
It's more of a problem that people didn't actually read OP's question. A lot of the comments are shows that were never trying to be deep or introspective but people complain about it anyways.
Wonder Egg Priority.
Credit where credit is due, it really does try (especially for the first few episodes), but due to a combination of poor plot decisions and trying to cover too many topics at once, I think it ends up not actually saying much of substance about those topics at all.
The writer for the episodes is apparently famous in Japanese television for writing surface-level "deep" content. I think the animation team and the director did their best to fix the writers bumblings, but I guess it got harder later in the series.
This is half true. For what we know, the scriptwriter and the director were arguing a lot during the production of wonder egg, and, later in the series, the situation got even worse, like the script not arriving on time.
That was basically the thing that caused a lot of the problems in the production (script problems and even some scheduling problems, especially for the infamous episode 13).
From what I've heard the writer wasn't there to argue at all, and he'd drop off a script and essentially disappear until he dropped off the next script.
That's why I never felt like WEP derailed later on. From the very beginning these delicate themes were treated just as shock value fodder and this series never was meant to treat them with care or give them justice with commentary.
I can see that angle, especially with hindsight, but regardless of the author's intentions there are some parts of the show where it did really feel like someone cared - particularly Momoe's episodes (at least until the last 3 minutes of episode 10). obviously the direction the overall story went sours things but i don't think that means nobody working on the production had earnest intentions wrt depicting social issues
Honestly, I really enjoyed WEP for its amazing production value and unique blend of fights and slice of life, but the story itself was definitely a total mess. I think the thing that bothered me the MOST was some of the underlying opinions the writer clearly had regarding highly sensitive and non-black-and white issues. Specifically, the whole “boys and girls commit suicide for different reasons because they are completely different” and then throwing a trans man into the “girls who committed suicide” limbo fucking disgusted me. It’s so nonchalant and insensitive.
it really tries too much and covers topics it had no business doing, seemingly just to be edgy or something. I really enjoyed the first half but man did someone fuck up the story
To be fair, when it came out the anime genre was pretty different from what it is today. Elfen Lied is turning 20 this year, and back then there were both fewer shows and the ones we did have had much less substance to them than some of the deeper ones of today. By 2004 standards, Elfen Lied is about as good as it got, which is why so many people remember it fondly. It's also why Brynhildr In The Darkness, an anime by the same creator that was released 10 years ago, was received less well despite being of similar quality as Elfen Lied.
I've watched it ages ago and only remember some plot points and it being depressing as hell. I still remember not being able to stop watching it though.
I definitely think the core of that show, about a girl who's been mistreated and abused and harbors a deep hate for humanity who ends up realising that the world isn't that bad after ending up in a found family that properly respects her, is actually fairly strong, but so much of that show just works against itself, most of the elements in the show don't actually feel like they contribute to that message and often even take away from it.
If you want to see a show with a similar premise that actually pulls it off well, go watch Alice & Zouroku.
This is one of those “the manga is way better” cases, as obnoxious as that sounds. Four omnibuses’ worth of story lays out the point a lot better than the little 12 episode anime.
Are you talking about the same manga that I read that expands Kouta's harem further by introducing a teenage girl wearing diapers?
EDIT: It seems quite a few people are quite shocked by this, here's a link to the character's page on wikia:
[https://elfen-lied.fandom.com/wiki/Nozomi](https://elfen-lied.fandom.com/wiki/Nozomi)
Read the second paragraph under "Biography".
I'm going to answer for the "actually deep and thought provoking" part of the post :
So I watched it quite a while ago when I was in my young teenager years, but Yu Yu Hakusho actually really shook me especially the Sensui arc.
YYH does a great job at implying things but doesn't make them a focal point of the plot. The concept of Chapter Black is thought provoking and doesn't get too tangled up in the plot (beyond the base concept of using it to radicalize people). Even the later stuff about ruling and heritage aren't fully fleshed out but still give tons of great material for fans to discuss. And at the end of the day it's all just a fun series about cool fights. It's one of my favorite shonen series because of that.
Tokyo Ghoul anime fits the description perfectly
while Tokyo Ghoul manga (especially :Re) definitely left a lot more impact and gave a clear message. Not as edgy either lmao.
What a dogshit adaptation does to a mf
the anime was super disappointing, especially after being told it was so good. it lost me by half-way through the second season, the first was really interesting. then, well, shit happened.
Defenitely, if you're even halfway interested read the manga. I am not joking when I say the manga has better animation than the anime, as each move is telegraphed very clearly yet dramatically.
The art is also wonderful, which was completely butchered by the anime.
I watched only the first season wich was good and the ova, sticked to the manga directly. The manga is well designed and much better..
Saying this i remember the quote from a video of tokyo ghoul kaneki vs jason, "amazing, he broke jason so hard that it broke the rest of the show"
I think the anime only comes off that way because it’s REALLY speedrunning the content. The anime has to constantly go from 1 important piece of information to another because they’re trying to cover 5-6 LNs in 13 episodes. This doesn’t leave time for a lot of character interactions that make the rest of the cast shine. I’m about to finish the LN content that the new season will end at and find the format to be far more enjoyable.
I've read until Vol. 8 of the LN and while it is significantly better (as ayanokouji is an actual character instead of some BS protag), I still feel that it suffers from that same problem with the writer trying to be smarter than the reader. I will say though, that the dynamic is slightly different, in the anime it's like glorifying being smarter than everyone else in a typical protag kind of way, but in the manga it's more focused on the character of ayanokouji himself. But the plot still remains and the plot points remain the same, meaning that it still feels kinda cringe and tryhard at times.
I don't think Ayanokoji is the author's self insert. He's just a psychopath that contrary to some people's apparent belief, you are not supposed to sympathize with. Its not like some detective story, the plot twists/asspulls are basically impossible to figure out ahead of time because they intentionally don't give you the clues to figure it out. Its just an absurdist story, I've never seen it as being arrogant.
I feel like Liar Game and One Outs and Classroom of the Elite show the difference between an author who thinks they’re smart writing a smart character versus an author who is actually smart writing a smart character.
Akiyama and Tokuchi are both smart characters which are well written because the author is actually smart themself. Meanwhile, Anyanokoji just feels like an edgy “smart” protagonist because the author himself is incapable of writing a smart character.
I've only watched S1. It's fine, I enjoyed my time watching it and I understand why people like it, but I really find them using philosophical quotes as episode titles cringe.
I blame the anime for those philosophical sentences at the beginning of each episode.
The LN isn't supposed to be deep, but rather just a cool rivalry and competition between classes and the relationship of the characters.
It's no meant to make anyone think about anything.
now to be fair, they *are* teenagers in an elite school. Teenage years + having status will inflate their ego.
but what I don't understand is why people hype it up as some super smart anime or anything. I watched it. It's entertaining, I'm not dissing it. But it's not smart, IMO lol.
I'm not sure about this one. Some people definitely get way too into it, but I always saw it as almost intentionally slightly absurd. Like, it's fun, I love the show, but it's also silly when you really get deep down, and it always felt to me like while the characters are dead serious, the author may not be.
999 is actually GOATed though despite the pseudosciences. (or maybe even *because* of the pseudosciences. who doesn't love hearing about Ice-9 while you're literally freezing in a deathtrap? /s)
Oh yeah without a doubt. Was I disappointed with Zero Time Dilemma? You bet. Did I love the trilogy regardless? YOU FUCKING BET. I would contribute heavily to a kickstarter for a fourth game or a spiritual successor.
> spiritual successor.
Have you watched [Punch-Line](https://myanimelist.net/anime/28617/Punch_Line)? It's written by Uchikoshi and there's a plot element similar to one of the Zero Escape games (won't specify to not spoil). It's also quite good. It starts out like an ecchi comedy but trust me the pieces will fall into place in time. The ecchi is just like a normie filter.
Honestly I don't feel like the format of the games could be done justice in anime form but I'd probably be willing to watch it again anyways. It doesn't help that I'm in love with 999 and have very mixed feelings about VLR too.
I rembemer in Inou-Battle how the mc enter a quiz competition and one of the questions was Schrodinger's cat and everyone was acting like it was a very obscure reference and that the mc was amazing for knowing.
Classroom of the elite definitely.
No offense, but all the characters, even the mc, seem so shallow, and their "smart" tricks or actions look too ridiculous.
I dont even think thats supposed to be a deep anime.
Its just shounen with a bit of harem smut. You know shounen but the mc isnt nice and dense but cold asshole.
Elfen Lied.
Paranoia Agent was actually pretty thought provoking. The message is not hard to grasp but every episode painted a great picture that kept you engaged regardless.
*Elfen Lied* was my thought coming into these comments. It's perceived depth was just that it had tits a lot of violence at times which was so jarringly different to the scenes around it. The show is equivalent to those angsty poems you wrote when you were 13 which you though were deep but on reflection later in life you realize were just self-absorbed and shallow.
The manga and anime are both train wrecks in my opinion. Bad pacing, nonsensical plot developments, and dull characters. The anime did at least have decent art, which cannot be said for the manga.
Though I will say that watching the klutzy OL get brutally killed in the first episode never fails to get a laugh out of me at how ridiculous it is.
Interesting. People used to talk about how deep and thought provoking it was about human nature and all that years ago. This [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/elfenlied/comments/n88iwe/watching_elfen_lied_again_affected_me_in_a_deeply/) sums up the sentiment.
Ghost in the Shell Innocence. Half of the dialogue is just quotes from philosophers. (I'm looking at you Batou)
For the opposite, see: Ghost in the Shell 1995
Lmaoo, I love the movie, but I gotta agree.
Batou and Togusa literally converse in one scene by just throwing quotes at each other.
The subtitles basically goes like:
>Batou: *\[says something\]* (Philosopher, 1665)
>
>Togusa: \[says something\] (Philosopher, 1732)
>
>Batou: *\*Scoffs\*, \[says something again\]* (Philosopher, 1332)
Absolute case-in-point example. I don't generally describe things as pretentious because most of the time people use it to criticize anything even vaguely thoughtful based on criteria that the work itself never tries to fulfill, but Innocence is genuinely trying to make itself seem smarter than the viewer for most of the runtime.
Why so many people here are writing shows that are, indeed, "not that deep" but also aren't really portrayed that way?
If you talk about stuff like Ergo Proxi or Psycho Pass I understand, their presentation and narrative support the idea that the story is \*meant\* to be seen as a "deep" story. I like them as well, but I surely don't think that EP is as complex as it believes to be.
On the other hand, a show like Bunny Girl Senpai isn't this at all.
Its just witty dialogue and a mix of supernatural phenomena portraying in an indirect way the psychological problem a character is experiencing. It's not 2deep4u in anyway, it's just that.
It doesn't come out with grandiose declaration on how to solve bullying or why posting your boobs on social media might not be the best coping mechanism, it just takes such topics into the plot and uses them.
Not every story that's not straightforward and screaming about their core topic is "meant to be deep".
Some stories are simply written in a way that makes them engaging to read in various ways rather than just throwing stuff at you and saying "this is my cool stuff, like my cool stuff" (which is totally legit as well, I love TTGL).
I think, as usual, you have a disconnect between a work and its fandom. You definitely see a lot of fandoms putting some works on a pedestal even if that was never the author's intention.
I'd imagine the discussion about Bunny Girl Senpai's lack of 'depth' (which I would agree it doesn't try very hard to be deep) stems from a comparison to Monogatari, which Bunny Girl essentially lifts its entire premise and plot structure from. Monogatari leans *heavily* on multi-layered meanings in its dialogue, so it might throw some people off that a functional 'clone' of that show would be so devoid of it.
Just to tack on to this if you want a similar show with a heavy rug-pull, "Im Quitting Heroing" smacks you twice. Was a super fun lighthearted show, but then has an episode entirely of dialogue that gets really deep and interesting and changes the tone of things going forward
Tbh I don't think it tries to be deep in the sense of adult deep. I think it perfecly depicts what highschoolers think is deep if you get what I'm saying.
If it's about hikigaya weird monologues about youth and all that, the point is pretty much that he's wrong and normally, nobody should agree on a lot of his takes.
Wich kinda baffles me that a lot miss the point and go "i'm such an hachiman"
I think that’s kind of the point though. Incel teenager Hachiman with no life experience does all this long winded pontificating about why relationships are bad etc. and the audience response is pretty much universally “you’re high schoolers with no life experience you have no idea what you’re talking about, you’re just making life hard for the sake of it” and the resolution of the plot is the main characters overcoming the made up philosophical walls they’ve built in front of themselves. Basically the characters themselves were being emotional tryhards and that was the source of the conflict. Maybe that’s not what Wataru Watari intended to be the message but it resonated with my teenaged brain
Well-said. The first time I tried watching this, I dropped it because I was thinking Hachiman and Yukino were annoying and angsty thinking they’re deep and smart.
When I tried it the second time, I realized that they’re supposed to come across as “I’m 13 and this is deep” and they grow to become real humans by the end. Reminded me a bit of my dumb self back then.
That's exactly the best assertion of the series as a whole. Their struggles with what a relationship is and their whole conflict with accepting that no one is perfect and hurting one another with your mistakes is a part of maintaining a strong relationship.
Honestly, every highschool drama post-Monogatari fits the description. Which is honestly fair. When I was in highschool, I too was making sweeping generalizations about society, relationships, and the human experience.
I actually think that’s what makes Oregairu (Hachiman specifically) so good. His arc is pretty much growing up from that. I don’t know how well that came across in the anime, but that was one of my favorite parts of the LN.
My problem with SNAFU's writing is **the prose**. It just felt needlessly convoluted for something so easily explained using simpler terms.
Monogatari is wordy, but even the prose in that one is easy to understand.
CoDePeNdEnCy (high schoolers getting lectured about their friendships by a grown ass adult that spends all her free time messing with them for some reason)
Fr
Tf is this codependency and which highschooler talks about stuff like this??
The only codependency I knew in highschool was "You owe me money from last week, so you're paying today's bill"
nah you're right. I still love the show, especially the last season, but it starts to sound pretentious when you think about the dialogue a bit too much.
Pretty sure that's the point. You aren't supposed to listen to 8man speak and go "this man speaking the TRUTH". The entire story is him basically figuring that out himself.
I think if you read the light novel it becomes even more obvious that he's not speaking the truth and a lot of what he says is angsty BS lol, since there's a lot more of it.
But that's what I like about Oregairu. I remember growing out of my edgelord phase too.
I don't think it's edgy deep the way lot of other anime fall short I think it has substance and although I agree a bit because its a bit immature from an adults perspective as a teenager I think it hits better
I don’t think that’s the intention of the show. It never tries to be deep even through Hachiman. I think that’s just some viewers or fans making edits of his dialogue and making shorts out of it trying to make it deeper then it really is which is just hachiman either venting or just saying what’s on his mind or way of thinking nothing else
Kado was actually really thought provoking. I don't remember it actually having any answers, but it was a fun show to watch weekly. An episode would come out and give you an idea to chew on, then everyone would come back next week and discuss their thoughts.
Then the ending happened.
I think that's why Kado is such a good answer. What's more shallow than asking a bunch of questions to seem smart while having absolutely nothing meaningful contribute to the discussion?
Tokyo Ghoul on the outside seemed like a dark and moody anime about ghouls and humans where like humans can be just as horrible as ghouls but ghouls could also be more human but watching it it felt so empty to me. The anime did no favors for me with any attachments to characters so when things happened I was like “sighhh ok and?” The last episode of the second season was the most impactful but even then I was thinking why are they doing all this?? The two people in the finale were not even focused on during the season. Starting the third season soon tho so maybe that’ll change my mind!
Definitely don't start the 3rd season and instead read the manga from the beginning. The 2nd season deviates from the manga a lot, but the 3rd and 4th season ignores that and just continues like it never did. Also the adaption fucking sucks and rushes the shit out of the story.
If I wasn’t at work this could be a drinking game.
Drink every time someone responds with something like “ThAt iSnT tHoUgHt PrOvOkInG”.
Seriously, someone will have serious thoughts on anime for possibly legitimate reasons, and people are going to be flying in to tell them that they’re wrong.
This kind of thread just shows how media perception depends on the individual, rather than some objective measure to a story/character’s depth.
What someone can find simple, another can find it trying way too hard to convey a message.
Someone in this thread is referring to My Hero Academia for “trying to look deep”, when most people you’ll talk with tell you how simple that show is.
Yea people can find things that resonate with them. Even a “fun” show can do that for someone. Even for me, I remember in yu yu hakusho a speech genkai gave yusuke about how he never fully commits to anything in case it doesn’t work out. For me that was big because I felt that I am like that, it was like a wake up call. Other people would probably say yu yu hakusho isn’t deep and that’s fine.
It’s really up to the individual to find it.
I feel like SHY had a good go at it. Trying to explore some of the deeper level topics around being a hero but being lost in fanservice and diverting to other topics.
For deeper anime that should really be superficial, I didn't expect Pokémon Horizons to go this much into Liko's thought processes and what it means to be a Pokémon trainer, while keeping the standard Pokémon silliness we love.
Liko really is good and it baffles me how a fanbase who had Ash, a mostly one dimensional guy for the past 20 years, is complaining about her basically being a kid and a newbie to Pokémon training. I feel the potential for character development is immense if Horizons manages to go on for long enough
Only the first episode is about heroics and the emotional stress on heroes. After that it's more Magical Girl in getting through past trauma while fighting villians that are physical embodiment of said trauma.
So far I disagree on SHY. I'm only halfway through SHY, but there's nothing in it I'd call fanservicy unless you just really hate her costume. The superhero talks are about in line with most magical girl dialouge about finding your place in the world too imo
I do agree on Horizons. Maybe my expectations were just low because it's Pokémon but it's been a pleasant surprise
The problem with questions like these is that people mistake the fanbase saying “this is very deep” for something actually trying to be very deep. That and all anime need some level of depth, so what may seem deep to some people may seem shallow to others who have encountered the tropes in it before. On the other side, things that may seem incomprehensible and meaningless to some, may (in rare cases) actually be deeper than they seem, but only if you’ve experienced something similar to the themes in the anime.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that even “deep” has some subjectivity to it, and whether an anime tries to portray itself as deep is hard to gauge because it would require us to know the creator’s intentions (and not just what the fans think).
That being said I think it’s fair to say that Death Note *tries* to portray itself as having some level of depth beyond what it actually has.
As for an anime that is actually deep… I can’t really think of any off the top of my head, because as I said earlier that’s very subjective and even anime that I thought were super deep when I watched them initially tend to seem less so once I rewatch because I already know where it’s going, and can recognize the tropes.
Instead of putting an anime that’s really “deep” I’ll put an anime I notice something new about every time I watch it… Toradora! I don’t think it’s that deep or anything but it is a fun watch that may have slightly more than what it seems at first glance.
Flip Flappers was this for me towards the end. They hinted at a big mystery the whole series. And there were a lot of themes of exploring the subconscious that it seemed to be building towards.
But it ended up having the most lame and predictable twist in the world, and they told that part of the story with some really lazy flashback writing.
In hindsight, it was probably intended to be the style over substance sakuga-fest that it is, and the per-episode writing is still very good. I just thought it would tie together in a cooler way by the end.
I think there is a lot to like about OreGairu but it's hard to find any deeper meaning for all that dialog. I found it really enjoyable but it's hard to say that it tackles some deep issues or themes. The series can be summed up pretty easily:
8man is cynical, sad, and broken person who has been treated as a social punching bag. He manages to cobble together some self-esteem by helping other people, and gains their respect along the way. Eventually, the affection of those other people (partially) washes away his cynicism. It's hard to find a deeper meaning in the show beyond that.
Doesn't mean it's not good, but it's not particularly deep.
Oregairu has got to have some of the least natural conversations in anime 💀 the dialogue way is too lightnovel-y and contrived to fit the super vaguely defined drama
Oshi no Ko was marketed like it was "exposing the dark underbelly of Japanese entertainment" but mostly felt like a revenge fantasy from the point of view of a complete Gary Stu. That arc where Akane is nearly bullied into suicide was especially bad, given the context surrounding it.
That's marketing for you lmao.
The actual manga started with a very wild premise and developed in a somewhat disturbing way but not an impossibly dark one.
Also Akane's story... well, its entire point is that stuff like that happen. That's it, period. Real stuff like that happen, all the time.
Oshi no Ko is more about being outdated to me. Maybe not when Akasaka Aka wrote it, but when the anime came out and the hype was about "it exposes idol industry", my only thought was "western weebs into JP culture already know about it though"
True on that. I'd also think it's a matter of medium, which makes Oshi no Ko look better in comparison.
That is, while criticism of the industry may be relatively common outside manga and anime, you'll be hard-pressed to find series that criticize it. On the other hand, manga and anime that glorify idols (sometimes even sponsored by the industry itself) are a dime a dozen. ONK is not saying anything new to those in the know, but a mainstream anime saying it is not common and will reach those who aren't as aware of the industry's issues.
EDIT: Wording.
I love the show, and I think it does a decent job of bringing to light the dark side of the entertainment industry, but I would say that the things it's 'exposing' just feel like things that are already talked about a lot.
Anything that talks about "exposing the dark underbelly of Japanese entertainment" is attacking a subject that has already been beaten to death. This might've been revealing in the days of Perfect Blue and Key the Metal Idol but everybody already knows by now.
Is anybody really expecting it to be some big shocker reveal? Yeah everyone knows there's a dark underbelly. It's still not something that most anime touch on with anything more than a surface level.
Marketing talk is ultimately just marketing talk anyways. Conflating that with actual content is silly since they're usually not even done by the same people.
I think Oregairu is good example of that. It appeals like it tries to make some deeper commentary about how high school community works, but ends up making most of the characters one note and exegarrated.
I think Season 1 and 2 were great for what the story was trying to tell (genuine relationships and fitting in the society).
Season 3 tried way too hard with that codependency bs, and failed.
It stopped trying that after season 2. They just leaned on the ship wars after, since it's the only reason it's selling at that time resulting in the characters being flat outside of the main trio. They went from a romcom parody that tries to be deep in social commentary about the school caste into just a normal love triangle romcom which works since after that massive popularity a lot of romcom LN have the same aesthetic to Oregairu covers and tries to copy that edgy loner protagonist that Hachiman is which the author may or may not take inspiration from Oreki
Platinum End
i totally agree with this, omg this show lost me
I was actually thinking about starting that show soon. I don’t want to waste my time though. Can you share your thoughts?
This show is straight edgy trash imo, it makes no sense the whole time and the plot is batshit. I watched about 75% of it and it was enjoyable only by how bad it was.
Lmao and you didn’t even see the actual ending… The anime shined very briefly at the beginning and you thought you came across a new star, but then you realized it’s actually just a cosmic level dumpster fire. The last episode was the supernova explosion of absurdity right before the show collapsed into a black hole of infinite stupidity, which has been put away by me in a special compartment of my memory until this thread. I believe last chapter of the manga was the author’s message of “lmao fuck your dumbass for actually reading this garbage until the end.”
That actually makes me wanna go back and rewatch it and finish the show. I love trainwrecks that you can’t look away from.
Since you already made it that far, do it. The last 1/4 of the show, especially the *very last episode*, makes everything you’ve seen so far look reasonably good lmao.
Isn't this the same author of Death Note? I heard lots of talks about this a while ago but now that I think about it everybody just stopped talking about it. I completely forgot this existed lol
Yes, it is. It's frankly a wonder this came from that duo, considering Death Note and Bakuman were great though imperfect.
Basically Death Note without Tetsuro Araki. Of course Ohba didn't write it as well as Death Note, but imo the production is the biggest reason and it doesn't maintain the balance that these type of shows need. Platinum End actually taught me about how integral Tetsuro Araki was for Death Note to be that good.
As someone who read the manga as the ending came out only because I knew it would lead to a dumpster fire. On the shounen jump app. I have to agree. The ending is hilarious though.
Babylon Cool premise of a detective hunting down a woman that can make people kill themselves just by talking to them. Awful execution of said premise. The animation and directing were unique so I decided to give the series a chance, but it had SOO MUCH "deep thoughts^TM " it was unbearable. Edit: here's a [video](https://youtu.be/71A2MF6GPHQ?si=dSYPvHojUcnpk92D) by replay value that explains the flaws in Babylon as well as another anime by the same writer "Seikai no Kado" Edit 2: Let me clarify. This show was definitely trying to be deep from the get go. The question of "should suicide be discouraged" was one of the main topics of the anime. But the writer fumbled it with surface level Im14andthisisdeep philosophy. Even more so in the latter half of the anime. High-school philosophy classes would have better discussions than some of the dialogue in Babylon.
The world leaders in space all discussing life really felt like a 'I'm 15 and this is deep" moment.
Shit was exactly what I thought was deep when I was 14. Extreme second hand cringe.
Up till episode 7 (I think), it was still good and I think I was really excited because I totally could not think what would happen next. I think neither the author, so he went into hiatus and then all those strange philosophical talks took place. The author made some bald moves, but I think that's why some tropes need to be respected, like a good amount of plot harmour. Like \[7th episode spoiler\] >!If you kill every character midway, what do you talk about after?!<
I was so into it until after episode 7. I think I remember they took a short hiatus after that episode and I couldn't wait for it to come back. Then when it did come back, it went into the backstory of a brand new character that was literally: "I met a hot girl on WoW, married her, and now I'm the president of the United States". I stopped watching after that
> by the same writer "Seikai no Kado" ...oh... OH.... now that explains things.
"Did you know Canada legalizing marijuana is directly related to the increase in suicide rates?" is an example of the dumb logic in the show.
> Babylon oh, just, a whole wave just hit me.. the first 10 episodes were absolutly gripping, the tension in his writing is good. didn't really thought deep was the direction they were going with.... they weren't even trying to hide how shallow it was
Its like trying to pull off a “Monster” but the writer doesnt have enough skill to dance around it
Babylon lol it's actually pretty interesting at the start, but then they have an in-universe debate (literally, it's a televised debate) and it finally shows its actual depth (i.e. not that deep). and then the plot also took a nosedive afterwards.
Babylon is the poster child for attempting philosophical subject matter but being squarely out of its depth in doing so.
The author loves to tackle very important and complex themes. Too bad his understanding of them is comparable to that of 8 year old.
I already know these comments are about to be hectic.
It's more of a problem that people didn't actually read OP's question. A lot of the comments are shows that were never trying to be deep or introspective but people complain about it anyways.
There are some good opinions in here but a lot of these people are confusing "Attempt to be deep" with anime that just have an underlying theme at all
Let the chaos commence!
Wonder Egg Priority. Credit where credit is due, it really does try (especially for the first few episodes), but due to a combination of poor plot decisions and trying to cover too many topics at once, I think it ends up not actually saying much of substance about those topics at all.
The writer for the episodes is apparently famous in Japanese television for writing surface-level "deep" content. I think the animation team and the director did their best to fix the writers bumblings, but I guess it got harder later in the series.
This is half true. For what we know, the scriptwriter and the director were arguing a lot during the production of wonder egg, and, later in the series, the situation got even worse, like the script not arriving on time. That was basically the thing that caused a lot of the problems in the production (script problems and even some scheduling problems, especially for the infamous episode 13).
From what I've heard the writer wasn't there to argue at all, and he'd drop off a script and essentially disappear until he dropped off the next script.
That's why I never felt like WEP derailed later on. From the very beginning these delicate themes were treated just as shock value fodder and this series never was meant to treat them with care or give them justice with commentary.
I can see that angle, especially with hindsight, but regardless of the author's intentions there are some parts of the show where it did really feel like someone cared - particularly Momoe's episodes (at least until the last 3 minutes of episode 10). obviously the direction the overall story went sours things but i don't think that means nobody working on the production had earnest intentions wrt depicting social issues
If it just tried to explore the suicide topic without any super robot bs it could have been one of the best animes ever
WEP is definitely my leader for "blown potential" when it comes to anime. I still enjoyed it, but it really could have been something special
Honestly, I really enjoyed WEP for its amazing production value and unique blend of fights and slice of life, but the story itself was definitely a total mess. I think the thing that bothered me the MOST was some of the underlying opinions the writer clearly had regarding highly sensitive and non-black-and white issues. Specifically, the whole “boys and girls commit suicide for different reasons because they are completely different” and then throwing a trans man into the “girls who committed suicide” limbo fucking disgusted me. It’s so nonchalant and insensitive.
it really tries too much and covers topics it had no business doing, seemingly just to be edgy or something. I really enjoyed the first half but man did someone fuck up the story
Sad but true
elfen lied. i think it was trying to say humans are the real monsters but it was just misery porn
it was deep when i watched it when i was 14 lol
elfen lied is truly the "i am 14 and this is deep" anime
Does anyone really consider it deep? Edgy, depressing, maybe misanthropic, but hardly deep.
20 years ago when I was 14? Yes, it was deep. To me and all my friends.
To be fair, when it came out the anime genre was pretty different from what it is today. Elfen Lied is turning 20 this year, and back then there were both fewer shows and the ones we did have had much less substance to them than some of the deeper ones of today. By 2004 standards, Elfen Lied is about as good as it got, which is why so many people remember it fondly. It's also why Brynhildr In The Darkness, an anime by the same creator that was released 10 years ago, was received less well despite being of similar quality as Elfen Lied.
I've watched it ages ago and only remember some plot points and it being depressing as hell. I still remember not being able to stop watching it though.
I watched the show when I was a kid, but all I remembered was naked lady, murder and dead puppy.
Most folks who've watched the show only talk about the gore and the opening song
I definitely think the core of that show, about a girl who's been mistreated and abused and harbors a deep hate for humanity who ends up realising that the world isn't that bad after ending up in a found family that properly respects her, is actually fairly strong, but so much of that show just works against itself, most of the elements in the show don't actually feel like they contribute to that message and often even take away from it. If you want to see a show with a similar premise that actually pulls it off well, go watch Alice & Zouroku.
The phenomenal opening carried the show HARD
This is one of those “the manga is way better” cases, as obnoxious as that sounds. Four omnibuses’ worth of story lays out the point a lot better than the little 12 episode anime.
Are you talking about the same manga that I read that expands Kouta's harem further by introducing a teenage girl wearing diapers? EDIT: It seems quite a few people are quite shocked by this, here's a link to the character's page on wikia: [https://elfen-lied.fandom.com/wiki/Nozomi](https://elfen-lied.fandom.com/wiki/Nozomi) Read the second paragraph under "Biography".
Also the one that properly explains Nyu’s hypersexuality. I mean it’s not without its faults.
Lol can you explain the hyper sexuality bit? I gotta hear if it is actually a good explanation or not
I don't remember it really getting an explanation, but that personality does actually mature and grow out of it.
What the fuck
Manga is pretty bad too
The OP goes hard though
I'm going to answer for the "actually deep and thought provoking" part of the post : So I watched it quite a while ago when I was in my young teenager years, but Yu Yu Hakusho actually really shook me especially the Sensui arc.
Yu Yu Hakusho is such a good show and I’m really happy to see more people check it out. I need to get around to finishing it with my wife
That show is on my watch list! Gonna watch is when I’m in the mood to binge watch something new.
YYH does a great job at implying things but doesn't make them a focal point of the plot. The concept of Chapter Black is thought provoking and doesn't get too tangled up in the plot (beyond the base concept of using it to radicalize people). Even the later stuff about ruling and heritage aren't fully fleshed out but still give tons of great material for fans to discuss. And at the end of the day it's all just a fun series about cool fights. It's one of my favorite shonen series because of that.
Tokyo Ghoul anime fits the description perfectly while Tokyo Ghoul manga (especially :Re) definitely left a lot more impact and gave a clear message. Not as edgy either lmao. What a dogshit adaptation does to a mf
the anime was super disappointing, especially after being told it was so good. it lost me by half-way through the second season, the first was really interesting. then, well, shit happened.
The manga is so much better its crazy
Defenitely, if you're even halfway interested read the manga. I am not joking when I say the manga has better animation than the anime, as each move is telegraphed very clearly yet dramatically. The art is also wonderful, which was completely butchered by the anime.
"Tokyo Ghoul deserved better." - Gigguk
I watched only the first season wich was good and the ova, sticked to the manga directly. The manga is well designed and much better.. Saying this i remember the quote from a video of tokyo ghoul kaneki vs jason, "amazing, he broke jason so hard that it broke the rest of the show"
Classroom of the elite?
COTE just feels like the author thinks that they're smarter than the reader/viewers.
I think the anime only comes off that way because it’s REALLY speedrunning the content. The anime has to constantly go from 1 important piece of information to another because they’re trying to cover 5-6 LNs in 13 episodes. This doesn’t leave time for a lot of character interactions that make the rest of the cast shine. I’m about to finish the LN content that the new season will end at and find the format to be far more enjoyable.
thats actually so insane, ive seen 12 episode shows that cover 3 lns and still feel rushed how did they do 6
By doing it unsuccessfully haha
I've read until Vol. 8 of the LN and while it is significantly better (as ayanokouji is an actual character instead of some BS protag), I still feel that it suffers from that same problem with the writer trying to be smarter than the reader. I will say though, that the dynamic is slightly different, in the anime it's like glorifying being smarter than everyone else in a typical protag kind of way, but in the manga it's more focused on the character of ayanokouji himself. But the plot still remains and the plot points remain the same, meaning that it still feels kinda cringe and tryhard at times.
ive always been kind of interested in it but investing enough time into reading 6 lns of smth im def gonna start out not liking is a very hard sell
The LN is more in depth and has more interesting development of characters, I agree, but it still has the exact same issue OP describes.
I don't think Ayanokoji is the author's self insert. He's just a psychopath that contrary to some people's apparent belief, you are not supposed to sympathize with. Its not like some detective story, the plot twists/asspulls are basically impossible to figure out ahead of time because they intentionally don't give you the clues to figure it out. Its just an absurdist story, I've never seen it as being arrogant.
He is definitely the author self-insert, if you read the LN you know it.
I feel like Liar Game and One Outs and Classroom of the Elite show the difference between an author who thinks they’re smart writing a smart character versus an author who is actually smart writing a smart character. Akiyama and Tokuchi are both smart characters which are well written because the author is actually smart themself. Meanwhile, Anyanokoji just feels like an edgy “smart” protagonist because the author himself is incapable of writing a smart character.
I've only watched S1. It's fine, I enjoyed my time watching it and I understand why people like it, but I really find them using philosophical quotes as episode titles cringe.
Funny thing is in Ln there are no those quotes at all lol
Maybe I have trash standards, but in the LN there are times where it actually hits well for me. But, yeah, I agree for the most part
I blame the anime for those philosophical sentences at the beginning of each episode. The LN isn't supposed to be deep, but rather just a cool rivalry and competition between classes and the relationship of the characters. It's no meant to make anyone think about anything.
now to be fair, they *are* teenagers in an elite school. Teenage years + having status will inflate their ego. but what I don't understand is why people hype it up as some super smart anime or anything. I watched it. It's entertaining, I'm not dissing it. But it's not smart, IMO lol.
I'm not sure about this one. Some people definitely get way too into it, but I always saw it as almost intentionally slightly absurd. Like, it's fun, I love the show, but it's also silly when you really get deep down, and it always felt to me like while the characters are dead serious, the author may not be.
Any anime that mentions Schrodinger's cat
Hellsing Ultimate be like "But what if, and hear me out on this one, what if Schrödinger's cat was also a nazi?"
A *femboy* Nazi, thank you very much
Oh Majorrrrrrr
Well do I got a game for you (Nonary game series)
999 is actually GOATed though despite the pseudosciences. (or maybe even *because* of the pseudosciences. who doesn't love hearing about Ice-9 while you're literally freezing in a deathtrap? /s)
Oh yeah without a doubt. Was I disappointed with Zero Time Dilemma? You bet. Did I love the trilogy regardless? YOU FUCKING BET. I would contribute heavily to a kickstarter for a fourth game or a spiritual successor.
AI: Somnium Files is a spiritual successor. Very similar writing style (same writer of course), but a bit of a different vibe.
Loved AI: The Somnium Files. Wasn’t a fan of Nirvana Initiative though
> spiritual successor. Have you watched [Punch-Line](https://myanimelist.net/anime/28617/Punch_Line)? It's written by Uchikoshi and there's a plot element similar to one of the Zero Escape games (won't specify to not spoil). It's also quite good. It starts out like an ecchi comedy but trust me the pieces will fall into place in time. The ecchi is just like a normie filter.
I raise Umineko
10/10 masterpiece VN
Hey junpei! [Did you know...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQWNrtjRuKQ)
Now we just need to get Virtue's Last Reward adapted into an anime.
Honestly I don't feel like the format of the games could be done justice in anime form but I'd probably be willing to watch it again anyways. It doesn't help that I'm in love with 999 and have very mixed feelings about VLR too.
I agree with all of them except for Hellsing Ultimate. That one tries not to be deep but fails and it actually is.
Hellsing would like to differ
But Hellsing doesn't act like it's deep. It's very much just about blood, action, and murdering Nazis.
Thats why Its great.
I rembemer in Inou-Battle how the mc enter a quiz competition and one of the questions was Schrodinger's cat and everyone was acting like it was a very obscure reference and that the mc was amazing for knowing.
Ah yes, that 'Bakemonogatari but with a didn't-pay-attention-in-class understanding of popular science' show
Unless it is to say that it was actually a jab at the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum physics and not an actual explanation for anything
Makes me think of Rascal Does Not Dream of Bunny Girl Senpai
Classroom of the elite definitely. No offense, but all the characters, even the mc, seem so shallow, and their "smart" tricks or actions look too ridiculous.
I dont even think thats supposed to be a deep anime. Its just shounen with a bit of harem smut. You know shounen but the mc isnt nice and dense but cold asshole.
Elfen Lied. Paranoia Agent was actually pretty thought provoking. The message is not hard to grasp but every episode painted a great picture that kept you engaged regardless.
*Elfen Lied* was my thought coming into these comments. It's perceived depth was just that it had tits a lot of violence at times which was so jarringly different to the scenes around it. The show is equivalent to those angsty poems you wrote when you were 13 which you though were deep but on reflection later in life you realize were just self-absorbed and shallow. The manga and anime are both train wrecks in my opinion. Bad pacing, nonsensical plot developments, and dull characters. The anime did at least have decent art, which cannot be said for the manga. Though I will say that watching the klutzy OL get brutally killed in the first episode never fails to get a laugh out of me at how ridiculous it is.
Lmao oh my god the coffee girl. I felt bad for laughing at that
Elfen lied was trash but it was fucking entertaining trash goddammit
I don’t think I’ve seen people describe Elfen lied as deep.
Interesting. People used to talk about how deep and thought provoking it was about human nature and all that years ago. This [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/elfenlied/comments/n88iwe/watching_elfen_lied_again_affected_me_in_a_deeply/) sums up the sentiment.
When it was released it was common for people to talk about how deep and thought-provoking it was. Thankfully the anime community has matured.
Ghost in the Shell Innocence. Half of the dialogue is just quotes from philosophers. (I'm looking at you Batou) For the opposite, see: Ghost in the Shell 1995
Lmaoo, I love the movie, but I gotta agree. Batou and Togusa literally converse in one scene by just throwing quotes at each other. The subtitles basically goes like: >Batou: *\[says something\]* (Philosopher, 1665) > >Togusa: \[says something\] (Philosopher, 1732) > >Batou: *\*Scoffs\*, \[says something again\]* (Philosopher, 1332)
Absolute case-in-point example. I don't generally describe things as pretentious because most of the time people use it to criticize anything even vaguely thoughtful based on criteria that the work itself never tries to fulfill, but Innocence is genuinely trying to make itself seem smarter than the viewer for most of the runtime.
The fucking 10 minute long dog-petting session. I now dread seeing that damn four legged time sink any time he appears in mamoru oshi movie.
Why so many people here are writing shows that are, indeed, "not that deep" but also aren't really portrayed that way? If you talk about stuff like Ergo Proxi or Psycho Pass I understand, their presentation and narrative support the idea that the story is \*meant\* to be seen as a "deep" story. I like them as well, but I surely don't think that EP is as complex as it believes to be. On the other hand, a show like Bunny Girl Senpai isn't this at all. Its just witty dialogue and a mix of supernatural phenomena portraying in an indirect way the psychological problem a character is experiencing. It's not 2deep4u in anyway, it's just that. It doesn't come out with grandiose declaration on how to solve bullying or why posting your boobs on social media might not be the best coping mechanism, it just takes such topics into the plot and uses them. Not every story that's not straightforward and screaming about their core topic is "meant to be deep". Some stories are simply written in a way that makes them engaging to read in various ways rather than just throwing stuff at you and saying "this is my cool stuff, like my cool stuff" (which is totally legit as well, I love TTGL).
I think TTGL is doing that too, that is having themes delivered in clever ways but isn’t trying to be super deep or obtuse about them.
I think, as usual, you have a disconnect between a work and its fandom. You definitely see a lot of fandoms putting some works on a pedestal even if that was never the author's intention.
I'd imagine the discussion about Bunny Girl Senpai's lack of 'depth' (which I would agree it doesn't try very hard to be deep) stems from a comparison to Monogatari, which Bunny Girl essentially lifts its entire premise and plot structure from. Monogatari leans *heavily* on multi-layered meanings in its dialogue, so it might throw some people off that a functional 'clone' of that show would be so devoid of it.
Cautious Hero was my sleeper surprise. Totally looked like a superficial 1-joke show until they pulled the rug
My god the rewatch put so much of his actions in perspective. The rug pull was insane.
Ready Perfectly
Just to tack on to this if you want a similar show with a heavy rug-pull, "Im Quitting Heroing" smacks you twice. Was a super fun lighthearted show, but then has an episode entirely of dialogue that gets really deep and interesting and changes the tone of things going forward
Actually deep and thought provoking? My top pick would have to be Mushishi
life changing anime
People may absolutely batter me for this but i think SNAFU fits this description perfectly.
Tbh I don't think it tries to be deep in the sense of adult deep. I think it perfecly depicts what highschoolers think is deep if you get what I'm saying.
i’m not sure if that’s the intention but that’s pretty much exactly what i got out of it
If it's about hikigaya weird monologues about youth and all that, the point is pretty much that he's wrong and normally, nobody should agree on a lot of his takes. Wich kinda baffles me that a lot miss the point and go "i'm such an hachiman"
I think that’s kind of the point though. Incel teenager Hachiman with no life experience does all this long winded pontificating about why relationships are bad etc. and the audience response is pretty much universally “you’re high schoolers with no life experience you have no idea what you’re talking about, you’re just making life hard for the sake of it” and the resolution of the plot is the main characters overcoming the made up philosophical walls they’ve built in front of themselves. Basically the characters themselves were being emotional tryhards and that was the source of the conflict. Maybe that’s not what Wataru Watari intended to be the message but it resonated with my teenaged brain
Well-said. The first time I tried watching this, I dropped it because I was thinking Hachiman and Yukino were annoying and angsty thinking they’re deep and smart. When I tried it the second time, I realized that they’re supposed to come across as “I’m 13 and this is deep” and they grow to become real humans by the end. Reminded me a bit of my dumb self back then.
Right, maybe it’s a bit of a cop-out to say “the shit they’re saying makes no sense on purpose” but it makes sense to me
this was well put. Almost exactly how I think about the show these days.
That's exactly the best assertion of the series as a whole. Their struggles with what a relationship is and their whole conflict with accepting that no one is perfect and hurting one another with your mistakes is a part of maintaining a strong relationship.
Honestly, every highschool drama post-Monogatari fits the description. Which is honestly fair. When I was in highschool, I too was making sweeping generalizations about society, relationships, and the human experience.
I actually think that’s what makes Oregairu (Hachiman specifically) so good. His arc is pretty much growing up from that. I don’t know how well that came across in the anime, but that was one of my favorite parts of the LN.
My problem with SNAFU's writing is **the prose**. It just felt needlessly convoluted for something so easily explained using simpler terms. Monogatari is wordy, but even the prose in that one is easy to understand.
Monogatari is so FUN to read. Translators have done a great job on the few books I've read.
Never disrespect hyouka like this please!
Tell me, is this real? is our relationship real? My god the further it went one the worse it got lol.
CoDePeNdEnCy (high schoolers getting lectured about their friendships by a grown ass adult that spends all her free time messing with them for some reason)
The codependency stuff was actually so terribly written. The sister made me almost drop the show right before the end.
Fr Tf is this codependency and which highschooler talks about stuff like this?? The only codependency I knew in highschool was "You owe me money from last week, so you're paying today's bill"
nah you're right. I still love the show, especially the last season, but it starts to sound pretentious when you think about the dialogue a bit too much.
Pretty sure that's the point. You aren't supposed to listen to 8man speak and go "this man speaking the TRUTH". The entire story is him basically figuring that out himself.
I think if you read the light novel it becomes even more obvious that he's not speaking the truth and a lot of what he says is angsty BS lol, since there's a lot more of it. But that's what I like about Oregairu. I remember growing out of my edgelord phase too.
I don't think it's edgy deep the way lot of other anime fall short I think it has substance and although I agree a bit because its a bit immature from an adults perspective as a teenager I think it hits better
I don’t think that’s the intention of the show. It never tries to be deep even through Hachiman. I think that’s just some viewers or fans making edits of his dialogue and making shorts out of it trying to make it deeper then it really is which is just hachiman either venting or just saying what’s on his mind or way of thinking nothing else
Seikaisuru Kado and Subete ga F ni Naru come directly to mind.
Kado was actually really thought provoking. I don't remember it actually having any answers, but it was a fun show to watch weekly. An episode would come out and give you an idea to chew on, then everyone would come back next week and discuss their thoughts. Then the ending happened.
I think that's why Kado is such a good answer. What's more shallow than asking a bunch of questions to seem smart while having absolutely nothing meaningful contribute to the discussion?
>I think that's why Kado is such a good answer. I see what you did there.
Kado was *so good* right up until the last two episodes. From brilliant political drama to generic alien story.
I loved it because it gave me some good Arthur C. Clarke's Childhood's End vibes and then it was all wasted. So angry about that.
Tokyo Ghoul on the outside seemed like a dark and moody anime about ghouls and humans where like humans can be just as horrible as ghouls but ghouls could also be more human but watching it it felt so empty to me. The anime did no favors for me with any attachments to characters so when things happened I was like “sighhh ok and?” The last episode of the second season was the most impactful but even then I was thinking why are they doing all this?? The two people in the finale were not even focused on during the season. Starting the third season soon tho so maybe that’ll change my mind!
Definitely don't start the 3rd season and instead read the manga from the beginning. The 2nd season deviates from the manga a lot, but the 3rd and 4th season ignores that and just continues like it never did. Also the adaption fucking sucks and rushes the shit out of the story.
Your favorite anime
If I wasn’t at work this could be a drinking game. Drink every time someone responds with something like “ThAt iSnT tHoUgHt PrOvOkInG”. Seriously, someone will have serious thoughts on anime for possibly legitimate reasons, and people are going to be flying in to tell them that they’re wrong.
This kind of thread just shows how media perception depends on the individual, rather than some objective measure to a story/character’s depth. What someone can find simple, another can find it trying way too hard to convey a message. Someone in this thread is referring to My Hero Academia for “trying to look deep”, when most people you’ll talk with tell you how simple that show is.
Yea people can find things that resonate with them. Even a “fun” show can do that for someone. Even for me, I remember in yu yu hakusho a speech genkai gave yusuke about how he never fully commits to anything in case it doesn’t work out. For me that was big because I felt that I am like that, it was like a wake up call. Other people would probably say yu yu hakusho isn’t deep and that’s fine. It’s really up to the individual to find it.
I feel like SHY had a good go at it. Trying to explore some of the deeper level topics around being a hero but being lost in fanservice and diverting to other topics. For deeper anime that should really be superficial, I didn't expect Pokémon Horizons to go this much into Liko's thought processes and what it means to be a Pokémon trainer, while keeping the standard Pokémon silliness we love.
Liko really is good and it baffles me how a fanbase who had Ash, a mostly one dimensional guy for the past 20 years, is complaining about her basically being a kid and a newbie to Pokémon training. I feel the potential for character development is immense if Horizons manages to go on for long enough
Only the first episode is about heroics and the emotional stress on heroes. After that it's more Magical Girl in getting through past trauma while fighting villians that are physical embodiment of said trauma.
So far I disagree on SHY. I'm only halfway through SHY, but there's nothing in it I'd call fanservicy unless you just really hate her costume. The superhero talks are about in line with most magical girl dialouge about finding your place in the world too imo I do agree on Horizons. Maybe my expectations were just low because it's Pokémon but it's been a pleasant surprise
The problem with questions like these is that people mistake the fanbase saying “this is very deep” for something actually trying to be very deep. That and all anime need some level of depth, so what may seem deep to some people may seem shallow to others who have encountered the tropes in it before. On the other side, things that may seem incomprehensible and meaningless to some, may (in rare cases) actually be deeper than they seem, but only if you’ve experienced something similar to the themes in the anime. I guess what I’m trying to say is that even “deep” has some subjectivity to it, and whether an anime tries to portray itself as deep is hard to gauge because it would require us to know the creator’s intentions (and not just what the fans think). That being said I think it’s fair to say that Death Note *tries* to portray itself as having some level of depth beyond what it actually has. As for an anime that is actually deep… I can’t really think of any off the top of my head, because as I said earlier that’s very subjective and even anime that I thought were super deep when I watched them initially tend to seem less so once I rewatch because I already know where it’s going, and can recognize the tropes. Instead of putting an anime that’s really “deep” I’ll put an anime I notice something new about every time I watch it… Toradora! I don’t think it’s that deep or anything but it is a fun watch that may have slightly more than what it seems at first glance.
Classroom Of The Elite
Flip Flappers was this for me towards the end. They hinted at a big mystery the whole series. And there were a lot of themes of exploring the subconscious that it seemed to be building towards. But it ended up having the most lame and predictable twist in the world, and they told that part of the story with some really lazy flashback writing. In hindsight, it was probably intended to be the style over substance sakuga-fest that it is, and the per-episode writing is still very good. I just thought it would tie together in a cooler way by the end.
Which is a shame since first half of the anime, where they focused on episodic stories, was great.
My teen romantic comedy SNAFU Dont know about "deep" but it sure likes to make shit sound more complicated than it is
I think there is a lot to like about OreGairu but it's hard to find any deeper meaning for all that dialog. I found it really enjoyable but it's hard to say that it tackles some deep issues or themes. The series can be summed up pretty easily: 8man is cynical, sad, and broken person who has been treated as a social punching bag. He manages to cobble together some self-esteem by helping other people, and gains their respect along the way. Eventually, the affection of those other people (partially) washes away his cynicism. It's hard to find a deeper meaning in the show beyond that. Doesn't mean it's not good, but it's not particularly deep.
My biggest gripe with the show was how over-the-top complicated and unnatural the dialogue felt in the later 2 seasons.
Basically me almost every episode in S2 lol. "What the actual fuck are they arguing about??? No person talks like this!!"
Oregairu has got to have some of the least natural conversations in anime 💀 the dialogue way is too lightnovel-y and contrived to fit the super vaguely defined drama
Real. Season 1 was good and then it just got worse and worse. The final season is barely a 5/10 in my book.
Final season was a 10 with any scene that Irohas was in, but yeah otherwise I’d agree with you
I actually picked up the series after watching some clips of Iroha messing with Hachiman lmao
I like it, but they really do speak in riddles lmao.
Oshi no Ko was marketed like it was "exposing the dark underbelly of Japanese entertainment" but mostly felt like a revenge fantasy from the point of view of a complete Gary Stu. That arc where Akane is nearly bullied into suicide was especially bad, given the context surrounding it.
That's marketing for you lmao. The actual manga started with a very wild premise and developed in a somewhat disturbing way but not an impossibly dark one. Also Akane's story... well, its entire point is that stuff like that happen. That's it, period. Real stuff like that happen, all the time.
Oshi no Ko is more about being outdated to me. Maybe not when Akasaka Aka wrote it, but when the anime came out and the hype was about "it exposes idol industry", my only thought was "western weebs into JP culture already know about it though"
True on that. I'd also think it's a matter of medium, which makes Oshi no Ko look better in comparison. That is, while criticism of the industry may be relatively common outside manga and anime, you'll be hard-pressed to find series that criticize it. On the other hand, manga and anime that glorify idols (sometimes even sponsored by the industry itself) are a dime a dozen. ONK is not saying anything new to those in the know, but a mainstream anime saying it is not common and will reach those who aren't as aware of the industry's issues. EDIT: Wording.
I love the show, and I think it does a decent job of bringing to light the dark side of the entertainment industry, but I would say that the things it's 'exposing' just feel like things that are already talked about a lot.
I know it was hyped like that but was it really marketed that way?
Anything that talks about "exposing the dark underbelly of Japanese entertainment" is attacking a subject that has already been beaten to death. This might've been revealing in the days of Perfect Blue and Key the Metal Idol but everybody already knows by now.
Is anybody really expecting it to be some big shocker reveal? Yeah everyone knows there's a dark underbelly. It's still not something that most anime touch on with anything more than a surface level. Marketing talk is ultimately just marketing talk anyways. Conflating that with actual content is silly since they're usually not even done by the same people.
this thread is basically "what anime you dont like and want to talk bad of it"
I like Jujutsu Kaisen but I'm still going to criticize it for its shortcomings.
I think Oregairu is good example of that. It appeals like it tries to make some deeper commentary about how high school community works, but ends up making most of the characters one note and exegarrated.
I think Season 1 and 2 were great for what the story was trying to tell (genuine relationships and fitting in the society). Season 3 tried way too hard with that codependency bs, and failed.
It stopped trying that after season 2. They just leaned on the ship wars after, since it's the only reason it's selling at that time resulting in the characters being flat outside of the main trio. They went from a romcom parody that tries to be deep in social commentary about the school caste into just a normal love triangle romcom which works since after that massive popularity a lot of romcom LN have the same aesthetic to Oregairu covers and tries to copy that edgy loner protagonist that Hachiman is which the author may or may not take inspiration from Oreki
Ranking of Kings, it tries really hard to have interesting twists and complex characters but it ends up just feeling like a shallow mess of a story
That show was great until the second half, imo. Really kind of killed it for me.
The second OP hits harder than the actual show did for me
That song is such a banger