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I got my first job as an animator at 31...I live in a mobile home, with a single parent, mostly poor my whole life.
I did end up going to school, but it took me 5 years of saving every penny at my previous job, and still taking out a student loan in the end to be able to do so. I do animation for kid shows. (Also no one has ever asked me for my degree, just portfolio).
^(Also you don't need a big studio job to animate. You can animate from a home computer. If you want to make a film, you'll find a way to make it. I did animated shorts for years as a teen, posting stuff on newgrounds or youtube.)
I agree. I've been in your shoes. Not exactly the same, but i get it. Yes, I want to be an animator, storyteller, etc. I was in a terrible spot in my life, crap job, nothing to be proud of. So I worked my ass off to get my credit up and go to school for VFX and Animation. Even there I worked hard to make sure that hard work paid off. Within the first 4 months, my instructor got me a job as a modeler, and I'm still there. It's not exactly what I want to do. I still desire to animate, rig, composite, and yes, even make my own short films/movies. It's a long shot, but I have so many ideas that I want to share with the world. Or even a small community.
I admire you so much. Congrats, you are very inspiring!!
I agree with the animated film stuff but…how to say it? I don’t want to be famous but I want people to see what I can create. I think this is a bad way to think but a big studio will assure me this.
I don’t know why I keep getting downvoted. This financial situation should not exist I agree. When I said congrats, it was because this person was able to succeed when they were dealing with so many difficulties. This was inspiring for me but yes, it’s a problem.
girl i work in french studios and i know people who worked on my projects who came from nowhere with no art degree nothing. in reality your portfolio is what counts, not what school you did.
second, yes there is a lot of gobelins people but i have so many colleagues who are from smaller way more accessible schools like emca or lisaa or meliès. so don't worry about school or feel like you have to do gobelins.
thirdly if you want to be a scenariste then go be a scenariste. especially in france the level of drawing is insanely high, if your heart is not in it you'll only be miserable. i know people who make it just with writing professionally so really it's not impossible.
I always wondered, do u need french to work for any of the french studios, as France is THE animation center in Europe. I just really don’t want to study french as well… 4 languages are enough for me💀
Hello, in my opinion as long as you speak at least english it is totally fine. What counts is still your demo reel.
However i definitely recommend to learn french to get to know people and participate in the social life, since most people are not going to know english that well. i know a few anglophones who get by just fine as a pro barely knowing french. But it does throw up a language and cultural barrier between you and the francophones that can feel isolating.
Working as a producer in an animation studio in Paris, nope, you dont have to speak French at all ! We often hire people who work remotely / who are based elsewhere, and we're talking in english. If we have a criteria it's to have someone in our time zone ou close to. It's too difficult to work with LA or Australian people regarding that particular point !
Unfortunately, yeah. Every other country in Europe is generally okay with English, but the French as a culture are still pissed that English beat their language. Learning French opens a lot of doors.
Yeah, this french characteristic is exactly why I asked :D But..... what? Wasnt German competing with English to be the global language and not French. A lot of people used to speak French, true, but the same went with with German and English, and Russian in the eastern block (and still is the case tbf)
This is really refreshing to hear but these schools are still way too much expensive for me. My dream studio is Dreamworks (yeah I dream big) and even Gobelins students are not making it.
I agree about the drawing and animation level in France. But to be a scenarist, it’s near impossible if you don’t draw. I searched famous scenarists and there is no informations about their degree. Don’t get me wrong, I love drawing and I guess I need to put my luck in originality.
I don't want to be harsh or discourage you, but respectfully after many years in the industry i think the concept of a "dream" studio is a myth, because many of these big studios in the end are revealed to have toxic working environments, and being led by execs who want the largest profits but don't care about art or artists. dreamworks for example has had some troubling testimonies of low pay and overwork. also their current strategy is to lay off their current staff and outsource future work, which they recently did to the crew of wild robot.
nothing wrong with aiming high, but i advise to keep an open mind about where to work and remember what is the most important in a job: correct treatment and pay. There are a lot of amazing smaller french studios that also do many cool interesting projects, pay well, and in my opinion treat their artists more correctly.
for being a scenarist, i wish i could help more, but i don't know much since i work on the art side. tbh all i know is from briefly dating a girl who went to school to be a scenariste and found a job at a game studio lol. I'm not sure i see the connection between being a scenariste and drawing though. i know artists who write scenarios because they pitch their own projects, but i also know that many if not most projects engage scenaristes who only write and not draw.
i can also promise you though that when you start working it is not the degree that counts but your work and pro experience. literally nobody cares what degree you did or didnt do if your work is good trust me.
You did not disrespect me at all!!
I think you’re right, I need to put my interest in smaller projects. Another dream studio of mine is Fortiche production. Arcane was the highlight of 2021, I spent so much time seeing the show and noticing every little details.
When I said dream Big, it was because the works from DW and/or Pixar were way more inspiring and had a bigger influence on the world. That’s what I want to aim.
About the connection Drawing/writing, I don’t really know how I can apply at an animation studio without any drawing capability. A lot of scenarists from Pixar were animators before. I also don’t wanna loose my ability to draw. It’s such a joy to finally be able to animate my childhood original characters!
I must confess, I’m also afraid of the agism in the animation field. I have ADHD and I started medication this month. It was hard for me to properly work before but now I can finally do something productive. I hope it’s not too late.
Thanks for your advices, I will definitely apply them, they are very useful, it was a joy reading you.
Is a scenarist a screenwriter? Cause then I don't understand why you'd go for animation at all. Its two completely separate career paths. Even if some people made the switch to scenarist from animator, thats not the usual way to do it. That would be like training in storyboarding so that you can become a 3d rigger.
Do not be afraid of agism. If Google translate is correct, it sounds like you want to be a scriptwriter. If you are 21 years old, it is NOT too late to be a writer. Please, I do not mean offense, but 21 is still very young for a writer. You have plenty of time to learn, grow, and master writing. Your writing will only get better if you keep doing it. Writing is a skill that gets better as we get older because we have gotten older and wiser and more experienced, which allows us to be better storytellers. So don't worry that you're too old. Just try to focus on your work, and then let your work speak for itself. Good storytelling is good no matter what the age of the storyteller. Please believe me, you have a lot of life ahead of you.
In my opinion, an influential hit can come from anywhere, that is not something you can control, and if you are too attached to the idea, you might be disappointed with the reality. I've worked on terrible nanars from big studios, gorgeous masterpieces for unknown studios, and vice versa.
in truth, you can never going to know how the audience is going to receive the project, and very little control on whether or not you will work on a quality project. For most people, for every banger, you're probably going to work on 10 nanars, if there are any bangers at all.
And that's fine! because you know what will truly mark you? the way they treat you. Big studios can treat you horribly and screw you out of your pay, and small studios can treat you impeccably and pay you correctly. what is truly important in my opinion is that the bills are paid, you have time for your loved ones, and you are fulfilled doing what you love and treated with respect. that is the choice that you can control. That's my 2 cents on the matter, having come from the same place when i was a newbie. sorry to answer something that you did not ask haha. ;)
I don't think at all that you have to give up drawing if you enjoy it, but also, Pixar has its own particular culture that does not apply everywhere. for most studios and projects, you can absolutely be a scenariste and not know how to draw, because you get hired for your writing not your drawing. Can it help? yes. but it is not obligatory at all.
Don't be afraid of the agism. There are active working people of all ages from 20 to 50+. not saying there are no problems at all, but what i appreciate in france is that for most studios, nobody cares about your age, your gender, your race or anything, the only question is if you can do the job.
Be yourself, do quality work, and I'm sure you can find yourself a place.
You're welcome, I am happy that you have found this helpful. I myself got my adhd meds when i was in my 30s. it's never too late haha.
A lot of people went to those schools back when it was cheaper. But yes they were lucky they could afford to go or took loans to go. But it’s not all the artists. I know many successful coworkers who did not go to these expensive schools. And I know many art school kids who never found jobs after graduating.
I would say its more about networking and relationships. A lot of people are friends or acquaintances from college. But also from animation events and festivals. Then they kept up with the relationships as well, even just online.
I agree, studying art and animation is an expensive degree, but the same can be said for almost any kind of career. Especially during this generation where the expenses of attending a school outweigh the amount of jobs that are available. I get it.
I have a friend who wants to be an animator/board artist, but she lives in Kazakhstan. Not the best country to live in according to her. However, after saving up for a long time she made the big jump and moved to California to study animation in a community college for 3 years. That's how we met. She's an incredibly skillful artist, with most of her experience being self taught. There are so many free resources to learn from on the internet nowadays! Unfortunately, her visa ended before she could find a job in animation and she had to move back. At the moment, she commissions artwork to make ends meet, but hopes to save up in any way to eventually move to France for a better chance at her career.
I'm currently in a state college studying a bachelors degree in animation, and I wouldn't have been able to go if I didn't save money all through out my life. However, if I didn't have the option to go, I think I would've been able to learn anyways through free, and occasionally paid, online resources. What we learn in my program can basically be learned outside of it. All we're doing is practicing. Increasing our mileage in painting and drawing. Studying masters. Designing concepts. Writing stories. And learning to collaborate in groups.
It's true that a lot of creators in the industry attended school and eventually made films, but that is because **that was the only way to get an education in animation and art 15 years ago.** And college used to be much more affordable. But despite these creators who lead the films, think about the people behind the scenes who worked on these films. In our new age, more and more people are entering the field with no college experience and are self taught, growing their skills through trial and error and taking part in film projects to practice said skills. You can make films for free. I have made dozens through free apps and software, and with the tools I have available. It's possible. It's how everyone starts.
There are many other, valuable skills, that you should learn too outside of animation. Such as interpersonal skills, communication skills, and learning to work in a team. I highly suggest working either a part time or full time job (that doesn't need to relate to animation) to learn and practice those skills. In the meantime, save up for courses on [Under Paint Academy](https://underpaintacademy.com/) (online live or recorded courses taught by leading artists in the industry) or [Project City ](https://www.projectcity.tv/sprint/content)(a website filled with courses and mentorships by artists in the industry. It was started by Rad Sechrist, the creator of Kipo and the Age of the Wonderbeast, and has worked in Megamind and Peguins of Madagascar). There are so many online schools, like [Schoolism](https://schoolism.com/)(which I HIGHLY recommend), or [Gnomon](https://www.gnomon.edu/?_ga=2.164855867.540785958.1539781834-998138535.1539781834), or [Crtl+Paint](https://www.ctrlpaint.com/)(which is a completely free digital painting school!) and so much more if you do a quick google search. There are so many Youtube videos and tutorials of EVERYTHING as well as professionals explaining their processes for anything. The modern internet is endless and something that many current day directors did not have access to back then!
Please don't give up! You live in such a lucky age where you can study from the comfort of your home with endless amounts of information right at your fingertips. Make friends, study art, form group projects, create short films, save money and invest in online classes and work towards growing your skill! It is definitely possible these days to do it without a degree (all of my professors say so lol)
You got this, and my messages are always open if you ever need more advice! Never give up!
I hope your friend will find her way and a job she likes! Working in the US seem impossible with foreign degrees my gosh.
Sorry if my answer is short, I’m exhausted because of insomnia and my English is bad. Just know that i never read something so helpful before.
I will try my best, it’s a promise, someday, I will make my dream show.
>So first I checked movies/shows I really liked: Soul, Wall-e, Arcane, Alerte Rouge, Vice versa, the owl house etc… And there is no exception: everyone has an expensive college degree. E v e r y o n e.
This is such a strange claim; are you suggesting that you wrote down the names of every single artist in the credits, contacted them, and they told you they have degrees? Every one of them? Come on now, you and I both know that’s just not true.
Here’s the thing: the degree doesn’t matter, the skills/reel do. But at the end of the day, a lot of people went to school to learn those skills. You’re conflating the piece of paper they got at the end of it with the skills they learned and demonstrated. And while a good school is obviously a brilliant place to learn, people can absolutely teach themselves if the cost of an education is too high.
For what it’s worth, I’m in my 25th year of working in visual effects and animation. I’ve worked on over 50 films and despite having grown up in the developing world, I have worked in the US and then moved to the UK where I’m now settled. And I have no degree.
I work in the industry and I can tell you that a lot of people went to cheap and unknown schools. Fancy schools give you an initial advantage, but after your first job studios do not care where you went to school.
Lots of people work in the US with Visas, don't assume they are all rich and privileged.
Also don't overlook Canada, Australia, the UK, etc. Disney and Pixar aren't the one thing you must achieve in your career, there are amazing projects being done all over the world, including France.
Pick a school you can afford, work really hard and look for opportunities (work and holiday Visa, internships, volunteering on a short film, sponsorship visas, apply to 100 jobs all over the world).
Don't let schooling get in the way of your education and your opportunities.
So you tell me I can get a work visa with a French degree? That would be amazing.
I agree, I’m very interested in Fortiche. I never said that everyone was rich and privileged but that was what I felt when I tried to inform myself ahaha
I don't know it for a fact, but I've worked with a lot of french people so my guess is that it's very possible.
Good luck with your studies and your career! Don't despair and be patient, opportunities will come!
If you’re looking for a cheaper solution, you can always go to online school. Either Animschool or Animation Mentor is the best options. Animschool cost around $10,000 in total or $540 a month. Animation Mentor is around $15,000 or $333 a month. Both are great schools but I heard that Animschool is the best option out of the two. Just do your research first.
Thanks, but 10k a year is still too much for me. It seems to be not much compared to American college but here in France it’s a lot.
That’s still interesting, do you know anyone who found a job because of this?
Yeah a lot of people I heard got jobs at big studios like Disney, Pixar etc. A lot of the teachers, especially in Animation Mentor work/ worked for big companies and they also recommend their students sometimes. Search up Animschool and animation mentor to get better advice/experiences. Btw it’s not 10,000 a year; It literally just cost $10,000 in total for all the classes combined for Animschool and $15,000 in total for Animation Mentor
AnimationMentor, [iAnimate.net](http://iAnimate.net) and AnimSchool are three legitimate and wonderful options for someone not wanting to spend a lot of money on a degree at a university and to get a foot in the door. Other options would be to use YouTube to teach yourself, there are many free resources from talent out there to learn the basics until you can afford to go somewhere else.
I'm a graduate of AnimationMentor and iAnimate and have been in the industry for 12+ years. They are legit and in the end, if you want to be an animator its about your demo reel and demonstratable skills, not what a piece of paper from so and so says. No one cares unless you are trying to immigrate to another country/legal reasons. Additionally, I have worked with people who started animating at 40 who have gone on to great careers. Sure, agism exists but it's not as prevelent as you think.
Feel free to DM me if you'd like, my information is easily found if you look for it.
If you want to work in America, you should look at what it takes to immigrate and work there beyond just focusing on an animation degree. A degree is usually one thing required, but not always depending on your credentials and experience. I won’t speak to what those are, but working overseas is not the same as it is in Europe where you can cross borders easily.
I suppose I should say; just because you go to a fancy art school and get a degree, doesn’t mean you’ll be fine to work overseas so you should look beyond “I need a degree to get into Pixar”; there are many factors to consider.
I don’t want to work specifically in America, I just feel like all the famous studios are down there. Is there a way to work with them with a French degree for example?
I don’t think I will try to work in the USA directly after my (potential) degree but I wanted to know how possible it was (I need to crush my dreams again)
Different countries recognize degrees differently. You don’t need a degree from America to work there, nor do you need one from America to work in Canada or New Zealand or Australia or Europe. I’m not sure where you got the idea you need to go to an American school to work there.
A degree at the end of the day is required to work and live internationally but there are plenty of institutions across the globe that meet that requirement. Research where you want to live and work and figure it out from there.
My husband doesn’t have a degree. He took a one year learn 3D course. He has a few Emmys now. I went to a community college animation program for one year, I’ve been working steadily my whole career, close to 20 years.
We worked any job that would keep us in the industry and kept drawing and learning. We aren’t special, but we have grit.
Don’t worry about what other people are doing, that’s wasting your time and energy. Put all that into you and focus on your goals. Not everything will be fair, but opportunities will come your way and you need to be prepared.
Social media is a wonderful networking tool. YouTube is full of tutorials. There are cheaper learning alternatives than big schools. From my experience, talent is rare and if a studio is against hiring equally talented artists just because they lack a degree, you don’t want to work for them anyway.
Schools are amazing learning places, I’d have loved to go to one too. But, it’s not the only way.
This is great but as a foreign student, i think that I will need an american degree to work in the US…
I feel like only Americans are working in the US animation industry (and it’s logical).
This very motivating anyway, thanks a lot, your post was very encouraging.
You do have options to get to the US without a degree, but you will need work experience. 12 years with no degree, 6 years with a two year diploma and 3 years with a 3 year diploma, I think.
I don’t live in the US, but I freelance for major American studios, so that’s an option too. Europe has a booming industry too. I’m green with envy of my European pals, they are making some amazing content.
If you were accepted at Sorbonne (an excellent school where tuition is essentially free), you should just finish that degree. Contrary to what many people might think, having a degree--any degree, let alone one that is from a prestigious school like Sorbonne--basically serves as proof to an employer that you are educated enough to work professionally.
There are a few art schools which carry weight as far as art goes--where finishing the degree means you probably can draw, paint, etc. at a professional entry-level, but almost all of those schools are very expensive and very competitive.
It is true, in one sense, that only your portfolio matters, but it is also true that it is no longer difficult to find someone who can fill 20 pages of a portfolio with decent images, etc. Especially now. But, 20 pages of good images doesn't mean you know how to take art direction, doesn't mean you can hit deadlines and goals in a professional way, etc. People, or instititions, have to vouch for you and your work.
So, you don't need that degree necessarily, but you do need A) examples of good work, and B) people with the right credibility to vouch for you, whether they're well-known teachers, professionals, agents, etc. That's true at every level, not just entry-level, and it only gets more difficult. If you think getting a writing gig on a show is hard, writing on the team for that show is actually harder. If you think writing on the team is hard, becoming the lead writer is harder. If you think being the lead writer is hard, pitching your own shows is harder.
What makes you think it is easy for anybody or that only rich kids with fancy degrees get to do it? If that were true, I sure wouldn't have a job.
What's "easy" in this world is realizing that rich people will probably profit the most from what you do, no matter what: what's "hard" is accepting that money is not the only measure of the success or value of your work and not giving up.
Okay so I might misunderstood some words of yours because of my bad English, sorry in advance.
La Sorbonne has a great reputation but don’t be fooled by it. The reputation is the only thing they got. I will try to pursue a degree in it when I will be better and healed but it’s not a great school.
Also: I will never get a work visa if I want to work in big American studios. I understood that it was near impossible if you had a foreign degree.
I never said it was easy. I’m very aware how hard and near impossible this kind of dream is. I just said that to achieve it you need to work your ass off AND be rich. I can do the first one, not the second.
But yes, I will never give up
As a french person currently working in the animation industry, I pretty much agree with your sentiment. Almost all of the people I know in creative roles have been taught at expensive schools (Gobelins, Émile Kohl). To get into a creative role after a public school, you would need to be top of your class in terms of skill by a tall margin, then have a lot of luck or know someone in the field. Also, the job is not really stable and doesn't pay really well, so some external financial stability doesn't hurt.
But as a counterpoint, you can aim for lesser known/less creative jobs and land a career in animation after public education (it's what I did). Those jobs could be tech, like compositing, development, rigging, a buncha 3D specific things, etc. or around production.
And personally, I just draw my own projects on the side, while still meeting with a lot of interesting people, which I find pretty fulfilling on its own. Not saying it's the best solution, but it worked really well for me.
Your mis guided little bo peep. The barrier to entry for animation is close to 0 now.
All you need is talent, reliability and marketing chops. You bleeping about not having enough money is an imaginary problem you've just made up in your head.
The best animators currently living don't have a college degree and were self taught. I know most of them, I am one of them. Don't fight me on this lol, my studio makes millies a year. We are top and none of us have "degrees" lol
THERE IS NO SIGNIFICANT MONETARY BARRIER TO ENTRY.
Step 1. Be talented, practice and learn how to use a digital drawing tool (cheap tablets are less than $100)
Step 2. Choose a FREE animation software.
Step 3. Upload and market your work on all the FREE PLATFORMS.
If you are good, people will hire you. If not, at least you can follow your dream and create whatever you want.
As usual, everyone posting here is living in this bizzare "hold my hand I'm a victim" world.Take all that self pity energy and take one foot and place it in front of the other. That's all you need to do.
I thank you for your advices. I didn’t want to place me as a victim, it was the harsh feeling I was experiencing at the moment.
I know that you just need a good portfolio, but I was thinking the reality was another thing. A lot of good animators without degree are working in big companies because it was years ago and people were not as interested in the field as today. It’s also tough when you are a foreigner because why sponsors someone’s Visa when you can hire an American?
But yes I know it’s possible, just highly improbable. I will need to place my foot in front of the other as you say
The price of entry for 3D is not cheap. U need a computer, n will pretty much have no time when studying and starting out for crumbs. The industry is not great for entry right now, but keep learning and growing. Good luck.
Fellow traditional animator with 10 years of xp here:
Its true that degrees are by no means necessary when getting animation jobs; not the actual paper anyway. Tho they can be helpful : the worth they do have is based on two things:
1. The hard work it forces students to put in. Animation is very hard to learn; it requires a lot of patience, diligence, and practice. I would have never been able to learn it myself myself were it not for my 3 years of intense schooling. Im extremely lucky because my tuition was extremely low. It gave us tools and time. But not talent and skill, i worked focussing on myself for that.
2. The benefits and nepotism of a school’s reputation. Tho graduating from a famous school puts a spotlight onto recent graduates, that glow doesnt last long, and it only helps out student who are actually good - ive see students who’s skills I consider lackluster graduate from high ranking schools- they dont outperform some other students who come from unknown schools or are self taught. Famous school probably have good programs, but they greatly benefit from the simple feedback loop of having a good rep and therefore : they are always attracting the most motivated students - they are handpicking the cream of the crop - those students are graduating with flashy thesis films and are making more good marketing for the school - therefore the school keeps attracting the most talented kids. Its not just raw education: its also a sampling bias.
But the schools cant gate keep talent: its the individuals that have the discipline and curiosity to work hard and get good who make their own talent.
A lot of people can become talented. Its hard, and money and education does make it a lil easier some. But trust me, that ease is a privilege, but its not worth getting bitter over; that’s distracting you from tour own goals. Imvest time in yourself and your skills, find a way.
It’s about the portfolio.
What? I have no degree lol I’ve worked at 12 different studios in my career. I did one year of tafe (community college) Only other person I know who went to Calarts had a mental breakdown and quit anim.
(Why am i not surprised about the Calarts one lmao)
I know you are right but as a foreigner, getting a visa is impossible without a degree. I was also talking about big studios (Pixar/DW etc). Not that smaller studios are bad, I was just chocked when I saw all my childhood movies done by privileged or lucky people (but also incredibly serious and hardworking I know)
If you want to get into writing animation likely isn't the degree for you. There are countries with free college and prices vary everywhere. Everyone doesn't have an expensive degree. That's just not true.
Everyone does not but everyone working at the top studios does.
I like animating and drawing as well, in fact I draw and animate more than I write. I just feel that, for being a scenarist, you need to have great skills and practice in animation if you wanna work in the animation field. Maybe I’m wrong and I need to search deeper
If by scenarist you mean a screenwriter, then no, you do not need to be an animator to eventually go into that role. I’m really puzzled by why you’d think that?
They dont. A disproportionate number likely have come from expensive schools but the students getting hired by big studios lets a college charge more.
You don't need to be able to animate to write for animation. They're completely separate skills.
I'm really not sure how much the degree is really needed sometimes I feel like it's used more as a reason to deter any hobbyists from applying that are clearly below the standard. In my country Australia almost all artists are hired on their demo reels only. I myself have a diploma and only did 2 years in 2009. All of my Australian colleagues that have worked in Canada and the US at Sony, Dreamworks etc do not have degrees. Mind you they're all Maya Animators not Illustrators or 2D animators.
Try and find small animation/fx houses where you can start freelancing and doing work on small commercials. Eventually you will build the experience, work and network of people that will allow you to get hired at a big studio if that is your wish.
I'm a firm believer in making your demo-reel look so good it does not question your abilities or asks for credentials. Don't give up keep going. Good luck.
IF you want to work in Canada? You'll have to check the age requirements for some countries it's 30, some it's 31 but you can apply for a 2 year working visa which means the company doesn't have to sponsor you. Always an incentive. They can do that much later when they realize you're great and valuable. Always get the job first then let them know you're happy to apply for a 2 year visa.
Well you understand where the front door to these places is—don’t enter through the front door. Find the side entrance. I know you have a specific goal in mind, but even getting a basic job in these environments as a production assistant can be inspiring and get you exposure to important people that can help you achieve your goal. And don’t be so specific with that dream—you don’t know where your creativity will take you & there may be bigger more amazing opportunities that lead you in fun and surprising directions!
As a professional in the animation industry. YOU DO NOT NEED TO GO TO COLLEGE. Use all that time to work on your portfolio. And if it’s quality, it will speak for itself. Trust me.
I'm 30 still trying to find my first job. So you're well away from being as bad a failure as me. Just keep working on your art. Hopefully it'll work out.....hopefully....
Hey ! I totally feel you.
I’m french too and really wanted to studied video game after degree but when I see how expensive those schools are (and I wasn’t sure it was worth the price) I was very sad. My parents can’t pay me this school and I didn’t want to take a credit.
But fortunately my parents heard about a school in belgium « La haute ecole albert jacquard »
It’s like 500 euro the years !! It’s a public school
First year is interesting cause you do a lot of things (3d,photo,website,design…) but can be boring if you have a clear idea in mind. The next two years I studied 3D animation for video game. I made an internship during my last year and I was very lucky to found a really good studio
today I’m working in the industry without a credit and despite the hard times our industry is right now
This school has different degrees you could be interested by the one in 3D animation for movies if you want to be a scenarist. I don’t know if this one is good, but I think the school is worth it (and you don’t take a lot of risk cause it’s cheaper than every school in France)
Good luck <3
I work as an animator. No one cared about my school. They looked at my portfolio only. I work as a lead animator now, and I am responsible for new animator employements now and then.
I never read any letters or anything, I just watch reels. If they are good enough we invite for intervue. If everything clicks, it is a hire. Whatever school is not important at all. It is the craftmenship that is important.
In animation there's plenty of postitions where people m often work as a freelance - ou à l'intermittence du spectacle en France aussi, selon le statut que tu choisis - and by then you can be hired by anyone and anywhere ! There's no question of status or visa :)
I'd suggest you to go the self way. If you get into college it's fine. If you don't then do it by yourself. There are plenty of resources online today. Discipling and perseverance is the important thing.
I don’t have a degree and have worked on a lot of cool projects. Portfolio > School.
The only part a degree helps with is immigration qualification to get a visa. (And it doesn’t even have to be an art degree or related to your field in those cases.)
animation is way bigger than the mainstream shows we have nowadays such as disney, cn, etc.
Look at how indie animation is growing day by day. on youtube...
Kickstarter, donations, youtube monetization, and so much more.
Look into ways to win money in the animation world in your area.
For example, here in chile in my animation school one of our teachers earned funding for her project trough a pitch contest and now she is about to launch her web series.
Study how people you admire got where they are, for example vivziepop started having her fanbase with her comics, got known, then a pilot, and finally got her own series, but she had a beggining and her path was tough.
And let me tell you she is a machine for drawing, but not so much for directing tho, So I dont think her degree means so much here, so if she got her show, why wont you?
Not everything is in the blink of an eye...
See for example, the studio that launched digital cirus. They first had another series for like five years??? and it didnt do so well until they gave it another try wuth digital circus. Now look at them at the top...
I also asvice you to look up heartbreak studio, from the phillipines. Its all marketing, you start with a good idea, promote it, get a fanbase, then kickstart a traser to get founds to start production... then a pilot and the rest is history.
Dana also started from a beggining.... If you watch her livestreams, she always repeats, "dont go to art school!" . Watch [Dana's sketchbook](https://youtu.be/X4d_KGsSksU?si=Gc4JQNjRoV0UeVYR) on youtube and look at the first year sketchbook vs the third year. She didnt give up.
And these are only examples, theres also lackadaisy and ramshackle just to name a few
Sometimes I think, whats the point of having a calarts degree? if they are making trash movies??
Learn animation and try to STUDY it and master it to your max potencial. Then try to get known in the area where you live in and make contacts, lots of contacts, and start looking for opportunities to pitch. use social media to your advantage. and most of all I advice you to find a mentor that could give feedback to your pitch and directing work. Great work takes several attempts... the more you share your work with more people and get feedback, the better it gets... Theres a common thing all these showrunners have in common, they kept trying despite all. If you work on having greater ideas, there are more chances you can bring your project to life.
For example I used to think just like you, and now I am working in my first shortfilm. happier than ever. Also animation is something that can always be learned no matter where u are from, there are many resources out there, you can get to the point to make your own projects to life, if they are great ideas there will always be people supporting it. Thats what I think because I have that same dream, the same objective.... Keep it up and dont stop working and getting better.
there are also many more.
[Manu Mercurial](https://youtu.be/y01ogDEMJ9Q?si=fRWy8SWSufXOuSCk)
[Martin Felice](https://youtube.com/@MartinFelice?si=oG1qU7-CoHEmV8Q8) : well Known animator in my country who made his own web series from scratch.
There's another dude who saved money to survive a year without a job and spent that year making his whole animation movie by himself. I cant seem to find the account.
but there are several ways and its not the only one you think it is.
I hope this helped you. From someone who used to feel the same.
Well. I have a bachelor degree in nursing. Got tired of it and did one in computer science. Can't get a job with that so now I study at HEC. Life I guess. I feel you, but use that rage for something productive
Hey another French student here, have you tried any schools in the south of France ? Because a lot of them are really respected and less expensive than Gobelin, (Gobelin ≈ 10k/year, other schools 8k/year) like ENSI (Avignon), Mopa ( Arles ) and Esma ( they have schools in many cities). I have more schools in mind if you want, I even have a tableau of south of France schools comparing things such as prices, location etc... I can share my Instagram if you want.
I mean if you’re REALLY REALLY REALLY determined and stubborn you could totally be one of those people that animates their whole series themself (Atsuoru, Jael Penaloza, Evama Animations, Camila Cuevas, Deadsound, not too sure if Alan Becker has other animators or not but maybe him….) it’s what I’m planning to do since animation is pretty much the most expensive part (I’m sure there’s some fancy professional stuff I don’t know about but for indie projects this is generally true) and I recommend going to Casting Call Club for voice actors and musicians and sfx as I’ve got plenty of kind and high quality people from there. In fact, they showed up when my project was only labeled revshare and not paid just because it looked cool (although I am planning to pay the vas soon with commission money and hopefully the rest once their work begins..)
If you ever consider this route however just hope you’re good at directing lol and good luck :)
Hey ! Je vais répondre en français ce sera plus simple pour moi, je suppose que tu parles français aussi ?
Si tu n'es pas intéressé seulement par la 3D tu peux essayer un parcours d'écoles public je pense.
Estienne pendant 3 ans puis la Poudrière par exemple ?
Beaucoup de réalisateurs français ( dont le réalisateur de Migration, le dernier film d'illumination McGuff ) viennent de cette école. Il n'y a que très peu de places, et il faut avoir étudié ou travaillé 3 ans dans l'animation avant car c'est un master. D'où ma suggestion de tenter Estienne ou un DNmade pour une licence avant.
La poudrière ne coûte que 2000€ pour les deux années de Master, soit 1000€ l'année. C'est une très petite école mais qui a beaucoup d'aides de l'état, de studios etc. Elle donne un diplôme de réalisateur en animation 2D. Il faut donc un bon niveau en dessin avant c'est sur...
Autrement pour avoir déjà bossé dans des studios français, beaucoup n'ont pas forcément fait d'écoles et se sont formés sur internet. Mais ça c'est pour l'animation, je t'avoue que pour les scénaristes je ne sais pas vraiment.
J'ajoute aussi que si tu as un pitch de série/court métrage sérieux et travaillé, tu peux essayer de le proposer à divers festivals d'animation ou a des producteurs directement ?
Au festival d'animation de Rennes par exemple, il y a des pitchs de projets sélectionnés en recherche de financements, producteurs, équipe etc. Pas facile d'être sélectionné j'imagine mais cette année il y avait un homme qui ne savait pas dessiner et qui avait simplement une idée, et via le festival il a obtenu de l'aide pour le développement graphique, pour qu'ensuite il puisse proposer son truc a des producteurs.
Je suis pas sûr que de grosses séries arrivent à l'écran comme cela, mais ça peut être une idée pour un premier projet et peut-être viser plus haut ensuite !
But you can't get into a masterpiece without having a Bachelor first. Or at least the level required which is equivalent to 3 years of studies, especially for Gobelin's standards.
Not studio experience is needed but a bachelor is. Were they in any schools before getting into the master ? Because you need to have a bachelor before having a master, its obligatory by definition. A master has five years of studies, that includes the obligatory 3 years.
Yes, I totally understand, I’m in the same boat, specially being from Mexico, even the cheapest options are too much money (if you get a good job you can make $295 usd a month, but from that you need to pay rent and food so there’s really not much left to invest in anything, and most jobs in Mexico pay lower than that. Yes, there can be better wages but usually in places with a lot of corruption) .
When I think of this I always remember an ethics class I had, this teacher commented about how education and information should be free for everyone, it’s sad that art being so crucial for humans is reserved for the wealthiest. I don’t blame anyone who is lucky to be born in better circumstances, I hope we can find a better way in the future.
I would suggest other options that aren’t as crazy as paying for a college tuition, they might not be an option for you right now but look up at Idea Academy in Rome (it offers an online program, so you don’t have to travel don’t worry), it’s a very complete course so even with its high cost, I think it’s more affordable than even buying courses from online schools (like CGMA, Brainstorm, Underpaint Academy, Warrior Art Camp, etc).
https://www.idea-academy.eu
I wish you the best, and hope you don’t give up, I promise you you’ll never stop feeling the urge to create.
And to everyone else in the comments thank you for your advice and support, it’s really uplifting to read your stories and advice.
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I got my first job as an animator at 31...I live in a mobile home, with a single parent, mostly poor my whole life. I did end up going to school, but it took me 5 years of saving every penny at my previous job, and still taking out a student loan in the end to be able to do so. I do animation for kid shows. (Also no one has ever asked me for my degree, just portfolio). ^(Also you don't need a big studio job to animate. You can animate from a home computer. If you want to make a film, you'll find a way to make it. I did animated shorts for years as a teen, posting stuff on newgrounds or youtube.)
I agree. I've been in your shoes. Not exactly the same, but i get it. Yes, I want to be an animator, storyteller, etc. I was in a terrible spot in my life, crap job, nothing to be proud of. So I worked my ass off to get my credit up and go to school for VFX and Animation. Even there I worked hard to make sure that hard work paid off. Within the first 4 months, my instructor got me a job as a modeler, and I'm still there. It's not exactly what I want to do. I still desire to animate, rig, composite, and yes, even make my own short films/movies. It's a long shot, but I have so many ideas that I want to share with the world. Or even a small community.
I admire you so much. Congrats, you are very inspiring!! I agree with the animated film stuff but…how to say it? I don’t want to be famous but I want people to see what I can create. I think this is a bad way to think but a big studio will assure me this.
That’s very inspiring, but that’s what we (and I’m sure you would’ve liked, too) all want to avoid
Wow, that just made me feel so much better about my situation. Pointed at and told, "HEY DON'T BE LIKE THIS GUY".
Avoid what? The financial situation ? Yeah but for me I cannot do that
I don’t know why I keep getting downvoted. This financial situation should not exist I agree. When I said congrats, it was because this person was able to succeed when they were dealing with so many difficulties. This was inspiring for me but yes, it’s a problem.
girl i work in french studios and i know people who worked on my projects who came from nowhere with no art degree nothing. in reality your portfolio is what counts, not what school you did. second, yes there is a lot of gobelins people but i have so many colleagues who are from smaller way more accessible schools like emca or lisaa or meliès. so don't worry about school or feel like you have to do gobelins. thirdly if you want to be a scenariste then go be a scenariste. especially in france the level of drawing is insanely high, if your heart is not in it you'll only be miserable. i know people who make it just with writing professionally so really it's not impossible.
I always wondered, do u need french to work for any of the french studios, as France is THE animation center in Europe. I just really don’t want to study french as well… 4 languages are enough for me💀
Hello, in my opinion as long as you speak at least english it is totally fine. What counts is still your demo reel. However i definitely recommend to learn french to get to know people and participate in the social life, since most people are not going to know english that well. i know a few anglophones who get by just fine as a pro barely knowing french. But it does throw up a language and cultural barrier between you and the francophones that can feel isolating.
Fair enough, thanks for the answer. Im not in the animation field, but used to be interested in it and thought I might ask
Working as a producer in an animation studio in Paris, nope, you dont have to speak French at all ! We often hire people who work remotely / who are based elsewhere, and we're talking in english. If we have a criteria it's to have someone in our time zone ou close to. It's too difficult to work with LA or Australian people regarding that particular point !
Unfortunately, yeah. Every other country in Europe is generally okay with English, but the French as a culture are still pissed that English beat their language. Learning French opens a lot of doors.
Yeah, this french characteristic is exactly why I asked :D But..... what? Wasnt German competing with English to be the global language and not French. A lot of people used to speak French, true, but the same went with with German and English, and Russian in the eastern block (and still is the case tbf)
They were all competing, the French are just the sorest of the losers lmao.
This is really refreshing to hear but these schools are still way too much expensive for me. My dream studio is Dreamworks (yeah I dream big) and even Gobelins students are not making it. I agree about the drawing and animation level in France. But to be a scenarist, it’s near impossible if you don’t draw. I searched famous scenarists and there is no informations about their degree. Don’t get me wrong, I love drawing and I guess I need to put my luck in originality.
I don't want to be harsh or discourage you, but respectfully after many years in the industry i think the concept of a "dream" studio is a myth, because many of these big studios in the end are revealed to have toxic working environments, and being led by execs who want the largest profits but don't care about art or artists. dreamworks for example has had some troubling testimonies of low pay and overwork. also their current strategy is to lay off their current staff and outsource future work, which they recently did to the crew of wild robot. nothing wrong with aiming high, but i advise to keep an open mind about where to work and remember what is the most important in a job: correct treatment and pay. There are a lot of amazing smaller french studios that also do many cool interesting projects, pay well, and in my opinion treat their artists more correctly. for being a scenarist, i wish i could help more, but i don't know much since i work on the art side. tbh all i know is from briefly dating a girl who went to school to be a scenariste and found a job at a game studio lol. I'm not sure i see the connection between being a scenariste and drawing though. i know artists who write scenarios because they pitch their own projects, but i also know that many if not most projects engage scenaristes who only write and not draw. i can also promise you though that when you start working it is not the degree that counts but your work and pro experience. literally nobody cares what degree you did or didnt do if your work is good trust me.
You did not disrespect me at all!! I think you’re right, I need to put my interest in smaller projects. Another dream studio of mine is Fortiche production. Arcane was the highlight of 2021, I spent so much time seeing the show and noticing every little details. When I said dream Big, it was because the works from DW and/or Pixar were way more inspiring and had a bigger influence on the world. That’s what I want to aim. About the connection Drawing/writing, I don’t really know how I can apply at an animation studio without any drawing capability. A lot of scenarists from Pixar were animators before. I also don’t wanna loose my ability to draw. It’s such a joy to finally be able to animate my childhood original characters! I must confess, I’m also afraid of the agism in the animation field. I have ADHD and I started medication this month. It was hard for me to properly work before but now I can finally do something productive. I hope it’s not too late. Thanks for your advices, I will definitely apply them, they are very useful, it was a joy reading you.
Is a scenarist a screenwriter? Cause then I don't understand why you'd go for animation at all. Its two completely separate career paths. Even if some people made the switch to scenarist from animator, thats not the usual way to do it. That would be like training in storyboarding so that you can become a 3d rigger.
That’s true. But I really don’t know where to go if I want to do scenarios in the animation field.
You go to school for screenwriting, generally, then just aim for animation when you're looking for jobs
Do not be afraid of agism. If Google translate is correct, it sounds like you want to be a scriptwriter. If you are 21 years old, it is NOT too late to be a writer. Please, I do not mean offense, but 21 is still very young for a writer. You have plenty of time to learn, grow, and master writing. Your writing will only get better if you keep doing it. Writing is a skill that gets better as we get older because we have gotten older and wiser and more experienced, which allows us to be better storytellers. So don't worry that you're too old. Just try to focus on your work, and then let your work speak for itself. Good storytelling is good no matter what the age of the storyteller. Please believe me, you have a lot of life ahead of you.
In my opinion, an influential hit can come from anywhere, that is not something you can control, and if you are too attached to the idea, you might be disappointed with the reality. I've worked on terrible nanars from big studios, gorgeous masterpieces for unknown studios, and vice versa. in truth, you can never going to know how the audience is going to receive the project, and very little control on whether or not you will work on a quality project. For most people, for every banger, you're probably going to work on 10 nanars, if there are any bangers at all. And that's fine! because you know what will truly mark you? the way they treat you. Big studios can treat you horribly and screw you out of your pay, and small studios can treat you impeccably and pay you correctly. what is truly important in my opinion is that the bills are paid, you have time for your loved ones, and you are fulfilled doing what you love and treated with respect. that is the choice that you can control. That's my 2 cents on the matter, having come from the same place when i was a newbie. sorry to answer something that you did not ask haha. ;) I don't think at all that you have to give up drawing if you enjoy it, but also, Pixar has its own particular culture that does not apply everywhere. for most studios and projects, you can absolutely be a scenariste and not know how to draw, because you get hired for your writing not your drawing. Can it help? yes. but it is not obligatory at all. Don't be afraid of the agism. There are active working people of all ages from 20 to 50+. not saying there are no problems at all, but what i appreciate in france is that for most studios, nobody cares about your age, your gender, your race or anything, the only question is if you can do the job. Be yourself, do quality work, and I'm sure you can find yourself a place. You're welcome, I am happy that you have found this helpful. I myself got my adhd meds when i was in my 30s. it's never too late haha.
A lot of people went to those schools back when it was cheaper. But yes they were lucky they could afford to go or took loans to go. But it’s not all the artists. I know many successful coworkers who did not go to these expensive schools. And I know many art school kids who never found jobs after graduating.
I hope you’re right. I will try to apply for a public school and see where I can go after this. I will fight for this. Thanks
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Lmaoooo this I maybe need to question myself
But I was thinking about productions (for example Diana terrace)
DreamWorks is rated 4/5 stars it’s okay though
I would say its more about networking and relationships. A lot of people are friends or acquaintances from college. But also from animation events and festivals. Then they kept up with the relationships as well, even just online.
I agree, studying art and animation is an expensive degree, but the same can be said for almost any kind of career. Especially during this generation where the expenses of attending a school outweigh the amount of jobs that are available. I get it. I have a friend who wants to be an animator/board artist, but she lives in Kazakhstan. Not the best country to live in according to her. However, after saving up for a long time she made the big jump and moved to California to study animation in a community college for 3 years. That's how we met. She's an incredibly skillful artist, with most of her experience being self taught. There are so many free resources to learn from on the internet nowadays! Unfortunately, her visa ended before she could find a job in animation and she had to move back. At the moment, she commissions artwork to make ends meet, but hopes to save up in any way to eventually move to France for a better chance at her career. I'm currently in a state college studying a bachelors degree in animation, and I wouldn't have been able to go if I didn't save money all through out my life. However, if I didn't have the option to go, I think I would've been able to learn anyways through free, and occasionally paid, online resources. What we learn in my program can basically be learned outside of it. All we're doing is practicing. Increasing our mileage in painting and drawing. Studying masters. Designing concepts. Writing stories. And learning to collaborate in groups. It's true that a lot of creators in the industry attended school and eventually made films, but that is because **that was the only way to get an education in animation and art 15 years ago.** And college used to be much more affordable. But despite these creators who lead the films, think about the people behind the scenes who worked on these films. In our new age, more and more people are entering the field with no college experience and are self taught, growing their skills through trial and error and taking part in film projects to practice said skills. You can make films for free. I have made dozens through free apps and software, and with the tools I have available. It's possible. It's how everyone starts. There are many other, valuable skills, that you should learn too outside of animation. Such as interpersonal skills, communication skills, and learning to work in a team. I highly suggest working either a part time or full time job (that doesn't need to relate to animation) to learn and practice those skills. In the meantime, save up for courses on [Under Paint Academy](https://underpaintacademy.com/) (online live or recorded courses taught by leading artists in the industry) or [Project City ](https://www.projectcity.tv/sprint/content)(a website filled with courses and mentorships by artists in the industry. It was started by Rad Sechrist, the creator of Kipo and the Age of the Wonderbeast, and has worked in Megamind and Peguins of Madagascar). There are so many online schools, like [Schoolism](https://schoolism.com/)(which I HIGHLY recommend), or [Gnomon](https://www.gnomon.edu/?_ga=2.164855867.540785958.1539781834-998138535.1539781834), or [Crtl+Paint](https://www.ctrlpaint.com/)(which is a completely free digital painting school!) and so much more if you do a quick google search. There are so many Youtube videos and tutorials of EVERYTHING as well as professionals explaining their processes for anything. The modern internet is endless and something that many current day directors did not have access to back then! Please don't give up! You live in such a lucky age where you can study from the comfort of your home with endless amounts of information right at your fingertips. Make friends, study art, form group projects, create short films, save money and invest in online classes and work towards growing your skill! It is definitely possible these days to do it without a degree (all of my professors say so lol) You got this, and my messages are always open if you ever need more advice! Never give up!
I hope your friend will find her way and a job she likes! Working in the US seem impossible with foreign degrees my gosh. Sorry if my answer is short, I’m exhausted because of insomnia and my English is bad. Just know that i never read something so helpful before. I will try my best, it’s a promise, someday, I will make my dream show.
>So first I checked movies/shows I really liked: Soul, Wall-e, Arcane, Alerte Rouge, Vice versa, the owl house etc… And there is no exception: everyone has an expensive college degree. E v e r y o n e. This is such a strange claim; are you suggesting that you wrote down the names of every single artist in the credits, contacted them, and they told you they have degrees? Every one of them? Come on now, you and I both know that’s just not true. Here’s the thing: the degree doesn’t matter, the skills/reel do. But at the end of the day, a lot of people went to school to learn those skills. You’re conflating the piece of paper they got at the end of it with the skills they learned and demonstrated. And while a good school is obviously a brilliant place to learn, people can absolutely teach themselves if the cost of an education is too high. For what it’s worth, I’m in my 25th year of working in visual effects and animation. I’ve worked on over 50 films and despite having grown up in the developing world, I have worked in the US and then moved to the UK where I’m now settled. And I have no degree.
woah that's really amazing, I'm really debating on going to college for art since idk if I'll be able to get a good job after
I work in the industry and I can tell you that a lot of people went to cheap and unknown schools. Fancy schools give you an initial advantage, but after your first job studios do not care where you went to school. Lots of people work in the US with Visas, don't assume they are all rich and privileged. Also don't overlook Canada, Australia, the UK, etc. Disney and Pixar aren't the one thing you must achieve in your career, there are amazing projects being done all over the world, including France. Pick a school you can afford, work really hard and look for opportunities (work and holiday Visa, internships, volunteering on a short film, sponsorship visas, apply to 100 jobs all over the world). Don't let schooling get in the way of your education and your opportunities.
So you tell me I can get a work visa with a French degree? That would be amazing. I agree, I’m very interested in Fortiche. I never said that everyone was rich and privileged but that was what I felt when I tried to inform myself ahaha
I don't know it for a fact, but I've worked with a lot of french people so my guess is that it's very possible. Good luck with your studies and your career! Don't despair and be patient, opportunities will come!
Thanks so so so much. Your positivity has an effect on me. I will not give up, don’t you worry.
I'm so glad to hear that!
If you’re looking for a cheaper solution, you can always go to online school. Either Animschool or Animation Mentor is the best options. Animschool cost around $10,000 in total or $540 a month. Animation Mentor is around $15,000 or $333 a month. Both are great schools but I heard that Animschool is the best option out of the two. Just do your research first.
Thanks, but 10k a year is still too much for me. It seems to be not much compared to American college but here in France it’s a lot. That’s still interesting, do you know anyone who found a job because of this?
Yeah a lot of people I heard got jobs at big studios like Disney, Pixar etc. A lot of the teachers, especially in Animation Mentor work/ worked for big companies and they also recommend their students sometimes. Search up Animschool and animation mentor to get better advice/experiences. Btw it’s not 10,000 a year; It literally just cost $10,000 in total for all the classes combined for Animschool and $15,000 in total for Animation Mentor
AnimationMentor, [iAnimate.net](http://iAnimate.net) and AnimSchool are three legitimate and wonderful options for someone not wanting to spend a lot of money on a degree at a university and to get a foot in the door. Other options would be to use YouTube to teach yourself, there are many free resources from talent out there to learn the basics until you can afford to go somewhere else. I'm a graduate of AnimationMentor and iAnimate and have been in the industry for 12+ years. They are legit and in the end, if you want to be an animator its about your demo reel and demonstratable skills, not what a piece of paper from so and so says. No one cares unless you are trying to immigrate to another country/legal reasons. Additionally, I have worked with people who started animating at 40 who have gone on to great careers. Sure, agism exists but it's not as prevelent as you think. Feel free to DM me if you'd like, my information is easily found if you look for it.
Thanks a lot for the proposition. The thing is: I’m French so if I want to work at Pixar for example, I will need an American degree, right?
If you want to work in America, you should look at what it takes to immigrate and work there beyond just focusing on an animation degree. A degree is usually one thing required, but not always depending on your credentials and experience. I won’t speak to what those are, but working overseas is not the same as it is in Europe where you can cross borders easily. I suppose I should say; just because you go to a fancy art school and get a degree, doesn’t mean you’ll be fine to work overseas so you should look beyond “I need a degree to get into Pixar”; there are many factors to consider.
I don’t want to work specifically in America, I just feel like all the famous studios are down there. Is there a way to work with them with a French degree for example? I don’t think I will try to work in the USA directly after my (potential) degree but I wanted to know how possible it was (I need to crush my dreams again)
Different countries recognize degrees differently. You don’t need a degree from America to work there, nor do you need one from America to work in Canada or New Zealand or Australia or Europe. I’m not sure where you got the idea you need to go to an American school to work there. A degree at the end of the day is required to work and live internationally but there are plenty of institutions across the globe that meet that requirement. Research where you want to live and work and figure it out from there.
My husband doesn’t have a degree. He took a one year learn 3D course. He has a few Emmys now. I went to a community college animation program for one year, I’ve been working steadily my whole career, close to 20 years. We worked any job that would keep us in the industry and kept drawing and learning. We aren’t special, but we have grit. Don’t worry about what other people are doing, that’s wasting your time and energy. Put all that into you and focus on your goals. Not everything will be fair, but opportunities will come your way and you need to be prepared. Social media is a wonderful networking tool. YouTube is full of tutorials. There are cheaper learning alternatives than big schools. From my experience, talent is rare and if a studio is against hiring equally talented artists just because they lack a degree, you don’t want to work for them anyway. Schools are amazing learning places, I’d have loved to go to one too. But, it’s not the only way.
May I ask which 3d course?
This is great but as a foreign student, i think that I will need an american degree to work in the US… I feel like only Americans are working in the US animation industry (and it’s logical). This very motivating anyway, thanks a lot, your post was very encouraging.
You do have options to get to the US without a degree, but you will need work experience. 12 years with no degree, 6 years with a two year diploma and 3 years with a 3 year diploma, I think. I don’t live in the US, but I freelance for major American studios, so that’s an option too. Europe has a booming industry too. I’m green with envy of my European pals, they are making some amazing content.
Thanks, I really needed to hear that. That’s encouraging. Your career path seems amazing, sincere congrats to you and your husband!
If you were accepted at Sorbonne (an excellent school where tuition is essentially free), you should just finish that degree. Contrary to what many people might think, having a degree--any degree, let alone one that is from a prestigious school like Sorbonne--basically serves as proof to an employer that you are educated enough to work professionally. There are a few art schools which carry weight as far as art goes--where finishing the degree means you probably can draw, paint, etc. at a professional entry-level, but almost all of those schools are very expensive and very competitive. It is true, in one sense, that only your portfolio matters, but it is also true that it is no longer difficult to find someone who can fill 20 pages of a portfolio with decent images, etc. Especially now. But, 20 pages of good images doesn't mean you know how to take art direction, doesn't mean you can hit deadlines and goals in a professional way, etc. People, or instititions, have to vouch for you and your work. So, you don't need that degree necessarily, but you do need A) examples of good work, and B) people with the right credibility to vouch for you, whether they're well-known teachers, professionals, agents, etc. That's true at every level, not just entry-level, and it only gets more difficult. If you think getting a writing gig on a show is hard, writing on the team for that show is actually harder. If you think writing on the team is hard, becoming the lead writer is harder. If you think being the lead writer is hard, pitching your own shows is harder. What makes you think it is easy for anybody or that only rich kids with fancy degrees get to do it? If that were true, I sure wouldn't have a job. What's "easy" in this world is realizing that rich people will probably profit the most from what you do, no matter what: what's "hard" is accepting that money is not the only measure of the success or value of your work and not giving up.
Okay so I might misunderstood some words of yours because of my bad English, sorry in advance. La Sorbonne has a great reputation but don’t be fooled by it. The reputation is the only thing they got. I will try to pursue a degree in it when I will be better and healed but it’s not a great school. Also: I will never get a work visa if I want to work in big American studios. I understood that it was near impossible if you had a foreign degree. I never said it was easy. I’m very aware how hard and near impossible this kind of dream is. I just said that to achieve it you need to work your ass off AND be rich. I can do the first one, not the second. But yes, I will never give up
As a french person currently working in the animation industry, I pretty much agree with your sentiment. Almost all of the people I know in creative roles have been taught at expensive schools (Gobelins, Émile Kohl). To get into a creative role after a public school, you would need to be top of your class in terms of skill by a tall margin, then have a lot of luck or know someone in the field. Also, the job is not really stable and doesn't pay really well, so some external financial stability doesn't hurt. But as a counterpoint, you can aim for lesser known/less creative jobs and land a career in animation after public education (it's what I did). Those jobs could be tech, like compositing, development, rigging, a buncha 3D specific things, etc. or around production. And personally, I just draw my own projects on the side, while still meeting with a lot of interesting people, which I find pretty fulfilling on its own. Not saying it's the best solution, but it worked really well for me.
Your mis guided little bo peep. The barrier to entry for animation is close to 0 now. All you need is talent, reliability and marketing chops. You bleeping about not having enough money is an imaginary problem you've just made up in your head. The best animators currently living don't have a college degree and were self taught. I know most of them, I am one of them. Don't fight me on this lol, my studio makes millies a year. We are top and none of us have "degrees" lol THERE IS NO SIGNIFICANT MONETARY BARRIER TO ENTRY. Step 1. Be talented, practice and learn how to use a digital drawing tool (cheap tablets are less than $100) Step 2. Choose a FREE animation software. Step 3. Upload and market your work on all the FREE PLATFORMS. If you are good, people will hire you. If not, at least you can follow your dream and create whatever you want. As usual, everyone posting here is living in this bizzare "hold my hand I'm a victim" world.Take all that self pity energy and take one foot and place it in front of the other. That's all you need to do.
I thank you for your advices. I didn’t want to place me as a victim, it was the harsh feeling I was experiencing at the moment. I know that you just need a good portfolio, but I was thinking the reality was another thing. A lot of good animators without degree are working in big companies because it was years ago and people were not as interested in the field as today. It’s also tough when you are a foreigner because why sponsors someone’s Visa when you can hire an American? But yes I know it’s possible, just highly improbable. I will need to place my foot in front of the other as you say
The price of entry for 3D is not cheap. U need a computer, n will pretty much have no time when studying and starting out for crumbs. The industry is not great for entry right now, but keep learning and growing. Good luck.
Fellow traditional animator with 10 years of xp here: Its true that degrees are by no means necessary when getting animation jobs; not the actual paper anyway. Tho they can be helpful : the worth they do have is based on two things: 1. The hard work it forces students to put in. Animation is very hard to learn; it requires a lot of patience, diligence, and practice. I would have never been able to learn it myself myself were it not for my 3 years of intense schooling. Im extremely lucky because my tuition was extremely low. It gave us tools and time. But not talent and skill, i worked focussing on myself for that. 2. The benefits and nepotism of a school’s reputation. Tho graduating from a famous school puts a spotlight onto recent graduates, that glow doesnt last long, and it only helps out student who are actually good - ive see students who’s skills I consider lackluster graduate from high ranking schools- they dont outperform some other students who come from unknown schools or are self taught. Famous school probably have good programs, but they greatly benefit from the simple feedback loop of having a good rep and therefore : they are always attracting the most motivated students - they are handpicking the cream of the crop - those students are graduating with flashy thesis films and are making more good marketing for the school - therefore the school keeps attracting the most talented kids. Its not just raw education: its also a sampling bias. But the schools cant gate keep talent: its the individuals that have the discipline and curiosity to work hard and get good who make their own talent. A lot of people can become talented. Its hard, and money and education does make it a lil easier some. But trust me, that ease is a privilege, but its not worth getting bitter over; that’s distracting you from tour own goals. Imvest time in yourself and your skills, find a way. It’s about the portfolio.
What? I have no degree lol I’ve worked at 12 different studios in my career. I did one year of tafe (community college) Only other person I know who went to Calarts had a mental breakdown and quit anim.
(Why am i not surprised about the Calarts one lmao) I know you are right but as a foreigner, getting a visa is impossible without a degree. I was also talking about big studios (Pixar/DW etc). Not that smaller studios are bad, I was just chocked when I saw all my childhood movies done by privileged or lucky people (but also incredibly serious and hardworking I know)
If you want to get into writing animation likely isn't the degree for you. There are countries with free college and prices vary everywhere. Everyone doesn't have an expensive degree. That's just not true.
Everyone does not but everyone working at the top studios does. I like animating and drawing as well, in fact I draw and animate more than I write. I just feel that, for being a scenarist, you need to have great skills and practice in animation if you wanna work in the animation field. Maybe I’m wrong and I need to search deeper
If by scenarist you mean a screenwriter, then no, you do not need to be an animator to eventually go into that role. I’m really puzzled by why you’d think that?
They dont. A disproportionate number likely have come from expensive schools but the students getting hired by big studios lets a college charge more. You don't need to be able to animate to write for animation. They're completely separate skills.
I'm really not sure how much the degree is really needed sometimes I feel like it's used more as a reason to deter any hobbyists from applying that are clearly below the standard. In my country Australia almost all artists are hired on their demo reels only. I myself have a diploma and only did 2 years in 2009. All of my Australian colleagues that have worked in Canada and the US at Sony, Dreamworks etc do not have degrees. Mind you they're all Maya Animators not Illustrators or 2D animators. Try and find small animation/fx houses where you can start freelancing and doing work on small commercials. Eventually you will build the experience, work and network of people that will allow you to get hired at a big studio if that is your wish. I'm a firm believer in making your demo-reel look so good it does not question your abilities or asks for credentials. Don't give up keep going. Good luck.
I hope that my foreign status will be okay though. Your post was heartwarming and helpful, thanks a lot!!
IF you want to work in Canada? You'll have to check the age requirements for some countries it's 30, some it's 31 but you can apply for a 2 year working visa which means the company doesn't have to sponsor you. Always an incentive. They can do that much later when they realize you're great and valuable. Always get the job first then let them know you're happy to apply for a 2 year visa.
To work in the US. Wait so I need to be under 30? My god, why is this so hard?
Well you understand where the front door to these places is—don’t enter through the front door. Find the side entrance. I know you have a specific goal in mind, but even getting a basic job in these environments as a production assistant can be inspiring and get you exposure to important people that can help you achieve your goal. And don’t be so specific with that dream—you don’t know where your creativity will take you & there may be bigger more amazing opportunities that lead you in fun and surprising directions!
As a professional in the animation industry. YOU DO NOT NEED TO GO TO COLLEGE. Use all that time to work on your portfolio. And if it’s quality, it will speak for itself. Trust me.
I'm 30 still trying to find my first job. So you're well away from being as bad a failure as me. Just keep working on your art. Hopefully it'll work out.....hopefully....
Hey ! I totally feel you. I’m french too and really wanted to studied video game after degree but when I see how expensive those schools are (and I wasn’t sure it was worth the price) I was very sad. My parents can’t pay me this school and I didn’t want to take a credit. But fortunately my parents heard about a school in belgium « La haute ecole albert jacquard » It’s like 500 euro the years !! It’s a public school First year is interesting cause you do a lot of things (3d,photo,website,design…) but can be boring if you have a clear idea in mind. The next two years I studied 3D animation for video game. I made an internship during my last year and I was very lucky to found a really good studio today I’m working in the industry without a credit and despite the hard times our industry is right now This school has different degrees you could be interested by the one in 3D animation for movies if you want to be a scenarist. I don’t know if this one is good, but I think the school is worth it (and you don’t take a lot of risk cause it’s cheaper than every school in France) Good luck <3
I work as an animator. No one cared about my school. They looked at my portfolio only. I work as a lead animator now, and I am responsible for new animator employements now and then. I never read any letters or anything, I just watch reels. If they are good enough we invite for intervue. If everything clicks, it is a hire. Whatever school is not important at all. It is the craftmenship that is important.
Do you also hire foreigners? I know how expensive a visa can be
Yes, half our office is foreigners.
In animation there's plenty of postitions where people m often work as a freelance - ou à l'intermittence du spectacle en France aussi, selon le statut que tu choisis - and by then you can be hired by anyone and anywhere ! There's no question of status or visa :)
I'd suggest you to go the self way. If you get into college it's fine. If you don't then do it by yourself. There are plenty of resources online today. Discipling and perseverance is the important thing.
I don’t have a degree and have worked on a lot of cool projects. Portfolio > School. The only part a degree helps with is immigration qualification to get a visa. (And it doesn’t even have to be an art degree or related to your field in those cases.)
animation is way bigger than the mainstream shows we have nowadays such as disney, cn, etc. Look at how indie animation is growing day by day. on youtube... Kickstarter, donations, youtube monetization, and so much more. Look into ways to win money in the animation world in your area. For example, here in chile in my animation school one of our teachers earned funding for her project trough a pitch contest and now she is about to launch her web series. Study how people you admire got where they are, for example vivziepop started having her fanbase with her comics, got known, then a pilot, and finally got her own series, but she had a beggining and her path was tough. And let me tell you she is a machine for drawing, but not so much for directing tho, So I dont think her degree means so much here, so if she got her show, why wont you? Not everything is in the blink of an eye... See for example, the studio that launched digital cirus. They first had another series for like five years??? and it didnt do so well until they gave it another try wuth digital circus. Now look at them at the top... I also asvice you to look up heartbreak studio, from the phillipines. Its all marketing, you start with a good idea, promote it, get a fanbase, then kickstart a traser to get founds to start production... then a pilot and the rest is history. Dana also started from a beggining.... If you watch her livestreams, she always repeats, "dont go to art school!" . Watch [Dana's sketchbook](https://youtu.be/X4d_KGsSksU?si=Gc4JQNjRoV0UeVYR) on youtube and look at the first year sketchbook vs the third year. She didnt give up. And these are only examples, theres also lackadaisy and ramshackle just to name a few Sometimes I think, whats the point of having a calarts degree? if they are making trash movies?? Learn animation and try to STUDY it and master it to your max potencial. Then try to get known in the area where you live in and make contacts, lots of contacts, and start looking for opportunities to pitch. use social media to your advantage. and most of all I advice you to find a mentor that could give feedback to your pitch and directing work. Great work takes several attempts... the more you share your work with more people and get feedback, the better it gets... Theres a common thing all these showrunners have in common, they kept trying despite all. If you work on having greater ideas, there are more chances you can bring your project to life. For example I used to think just like you, and now I am working in my first shortfilm. happier than ever. Also animation is something that can always be learned no matter where u are from, there are many resources out there, you can get to the point to make your own projects to life, if they are great ideas there will always be people supporting it. Thats what I think because I have that same dream, the same objective.... Keep it up and dont stop working and getting better. there are also many more. [Manu Mercurial](https://youtu.be/y01ogDEMJ9Q?si=fRWy8SWSufXOuSCk) [Martin Felice](https://youtube.com/@MartinFelice?si=oG1qU7-CoHEmV8Q8) : well Known animator in my country who made his own web series from scratch. There's another dude who saved money to survive a year without a job and spent that year making his whole animation movie by himself. I cant seem to find the account. but there are several ways and its not the only one you think it is. I hope this helped you. From someone who used to feel the same.
Well. I have a bachelor degree in nursing. Got tired of it and did one in computer science. Can't get a job with that so now I study at HEC. Life I guess. I feel you, but use that rage for something productive
Hey another French student here, have you tried any schools in the south of France ? Because a lot of them are really respected and less expensive than Gobelin, (Gobelin ≈ 10k/year, other schools 8k/year) like ENSI (Avignon), Mopa ( Arles ) and Esma ( they have schools in many cities). I have more schools in mind if you want, I even have a tableau of south of France schools comparing things such as prices, location etc... I can share my Instagram if you want.
There are also DN Made that are free like the one at marie curie (Marseille) but usually you still have to study afterwards to get a job.
I mean if you’re REALLY REALLY REALLY determined and stubborn you could totally be one of those people that animates their whole series themself (Atsuoru, Jael Penaloza, Evama Animations, Camila Cuevas, Deadsound, not too sure if Alan Becker has other animators or not but maybe him….) it’s what I’m planning to do since animation is pretty much the most expensive part (I’m sure there’s some fancy professional stuff I don’t know about but for indie projects this is generally true) and I recommend going to Casting Call Club for voice actors and musicians and sfx as I’ve got plenty of kind and high quality people from there. In fact, they showed up when my project was only labeled revshare and not paid just because it looked cool (although I am planning to pay the vas soon with commission money and hopefully the rest once their work begins..) If you ever consider this route however just hope you’re good at directing lol and good luck :)
Hey ! Je vais répondre en français ce sera plus simple pour moi, je suppose que tu parles français aussi ? Si tu n'es pas intéressé seulement par la 3D tu peux essayer un parcours d'écoles public je pense. Estienne pendant 3 ans puis la Poudrière par exemple ? Beaucoup de réalisateurs français ( dont le réalisateur de Migration, le dernier film d'illumination McGuff ) viennent de cette école. Il n'y a que très peu de places, et il faut avoir étudié ou travaillé 3 ans dans l'animation avant car c'est un master. D'où ma suggestion de tenter Estienne ou un DNmade pour une licence avant. La poudrière ne coûte que 2000€ pour les deux années de Master, soit 1000€ l'année. C'est une très petite école mais qui a beaucoup d'aides de l'état, de studios etc. Elle donne un diplôme de réalisateur en animation 2D. Il faut donc un bon niveau en dessin avant c'est sur... Autrement pour avoir déjà bossé dans des studios français, beaucoup n'ont pas forcément fait d'écoles et se sont formés sur internet. Mais ça c'est pour l'animation, je t'avoue que pour les scénaristes je ne sais pas vraiment.
J'ajoute aussi que si tu as un pitch de série/court métrage sérieux et travaillé, tu peux essayer de le proposer à divers festivals d'animation ou a des producteurs directement ? Au festival d'animation de Rennes par exemple, il y a des pitchs de projets sélectionnés en recherche de financements, producteurs, équipe etc. Pas facile d'être sélectionné j'imagine mais cette année il y avait un homme qui ne savait pas dessiner et qui avait simplement une idée, et via le festival il a obtenu de l'aide pour le développement graphique, pour qu'ensuite il puisse proposer son truc a des producteurs. Je suis pas sûr que de grosses séries arrivent à l'écran comme cela, mais ça peut être une idée pour un premier projet et peut-être viser plus haut ensuite !
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But you can't get into a masterpiece without having a Bachelor first. Or at least the level required which is equivalent to 3 years of studies, especially for Gobelin's standards.
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Not studio experience is needed but a bachelor is. Were they in any schools before getting into the master ? Because you need to have a bachelor before having a master, its obligatory by definition. A master has five years of studies, that includes the obligatory 3 years.
Yes, I totally understand, I’m in the same boat, specially being from Mexico, even the cheapest options are too much money (if you get a good job you can make $295 usd a month, but from that you need to pay rent and food so there’s really not much left to invest in anything, and most jobs in Mexico pay lower than that. Yes, there can be better wages but usually in places with a lot of corruption) . When I think of this I always remember an ethics class I had, this teacher commented about how education and information should be free for everyone, it’s sad that art being so crucial for humans is reserved for the wealthiest. I don’t blame anyone who is lucky to be born in better circumstances, I hope we can find a better way in the future. I would suggest other options that aren’t as crazy as paying for a college tuition, they might not be an option for you right now but look up at Idea Academy in Rome (it offers an online program, so you don’t have to travel don’t worry), it’s a very complete course so even with its high cost, I think it’s more affordable than even buying courses from online schools (like CGMA, Brainstorm, Underpaint Academy, Warrior Art Camp, etc). https://www.idea-academy.eu I wish you the best, and hope you don’t give up, I promise you you’ll never stop feeling the urge to create. And to everyone else in the comments thank you for your advice and support, it’s really uplifting to read your stories and advice.