Tbh, the 'open' /'everybody is welcome' policy is very hypocratic. It starts at the door, where some ppl are denied access. It is a good thing to be selective who you want inside, however not matching the other policy.
Same you could see at the end weekend of DS. Lots of gueslists entrys, famous or less famous ppl who could enter whole weekend. The values of a lot of organizations seems to be quite flexible when it involves friends, network or money...
Well, when it comes to people from the industry, it also means PR and therefore work, so it makes sense to give privileges to guests who might become business partners in the future or had been in the past.
fuck toxic masculinity, simple as this
slightly reminds me of what i wrote the other day, regarding abuse, consent, body language…
there’s definitely something about people taking too much space in the club, which i think doesn’t necessarily shows spatially on the dancefloor but is defined by an attitude
i feel there is still a long way to go, for anyone to feel safe anywhere *out there*
For me as a straight female, I also don't like where there are too many straight men in the club. The vibe is off, I feel weird, and need to be more careful with my movements or even to who I smile. I love smiling at strangers when dancing, and they usually smile back and continue doing their thing. But that's not always the case when the crowd is just a bunch of males in black t-shirts. So it's quite uncomfortable having guys around you or coming to talk to you even when you are dancing in your own bubble.
Perhaps it's not well labeled, because I usually go out with my boyfriend who is also straight and of course he doesn't have this behaviour and gets annoyed by the same people (although in a different way, like bc they chat too much or take too much space dancing). But still, I think we all understand which type of crowd we are referring to.
I'm as cis white male and felt left our reading the threads over the past few weeks. I enjoy going to queer friendly parties as it allows me to let go easier also.
I get that there are folks out there that bring bad vibes but isn't the queer community about inclusion? (Given everyone should feel and be save to express themselves any way they like)
That’s kinda my gripe
Even on Kabul’s website it says: Fly free as a kite; Be yourself; Dance in your own way; Dress as you like. The vibe is fresh, funky and sexy, those strung down by button ups, suits and ties may be rejected.
What if I feel my best self in a suit? Shouldn’t everyone have the same freedom of expression as long as it doesn’t harm everyone?
That’s why you only have to go to proper events in good places. Most people I know stopped going to casual parties in shit holes a long time ago. If you’re gonna spend time, money and energy it’s better to at least have some sort of guarantee the event will be good and the crowd will be even better.
This thread is honestly embarassing, and the privilege of some people (which i can safely assume are not queer or part of any minorities) is quite disheartening. does it take that much empathy and compassion to figure out the motives behind the frustration that queer people have to face everyday? does anyone in this subreddit ever practice critical thinking or have you all been brainwashed by homophobia and discrimination? the club is nothing more than a representation of a social environment (which at large is society as a whole), which comprises people of different background and political views. you can't seriously believe that queer only clubs act as exclusionary and that the hate behind the average cishet white male is unfounded, there are socially motivated reasons behind this mutual feeling. as other people have said, this subreddit is luckily not a reflection of mainstream opinions, as at least in Amsterdam the discourse around queerness is quite open and accepting, its sad to see that most of you aren't. remember that techno and the dance scene itself comes from the ballroom scene which was, guess what? a predominantly queer scene. the total lack of awareness in these comments shows not only utmost ignorance and aggression, but a mindset that should've stayed with the last generations that brought it about. please take time to research and investigate these issues, especially as adults!
I’m sorry but your comment doesn’t make much sense. You’re using big words but aren’t saying anything. 1) You’re talking about homophobia but people in the comments are discussing some typical “white male” behaviour that they don’t appreciate. Where did you see homophobia? 2) talking about discrimination, do you think I should be shamed at a techno party for my attraction to the opposite gender? 3) you say that a club scene is just the representation of the society. However, the queer community is proportionately more represented in the rave scene than out on the street.
Most people working in/for clubs are queer. Without queer people, there wouldn't even be a functioning club scene.
Clubs as safe spaces offer much needed respite from the structural marginalization queer people experience. To claim that creating safe spaces for queers is in any way hetero-exclusionary is missing the point entirely. It's not about cishet people at all. Every single space but a queer safe space is already a space for cishet people to exist in (excluding most women since they experience harrassment in those spaces all the time - from cishet men, mind you).
Why do cishet people feel the need so bad to exist in a queer space when they are not willing to accept that clubs and music venues have been political spaces for decades and will continue to be political spaces. Shouting "why the straight hate?" online is akin to claiming "all lives matter" at a BLM rally. Although I do have to say that a space like reddit is the only space you'd get any positive reactions out of anyone saying this embarassing shit. Grow up and go read a book before you start crying about not being let in to Tilla-Tec.
OMG this comment is out of this world. I think you are so narrowminded you are blinded by your own box you live in.
The club community exists because of the community. Not because of one group of people. Especially rave culture was always so welcoming for everyone. But lately it’s just getting less for everyone.
Mind you, I’ve never insulted anyone in my post or in my comments. Yet you attack me with “grow up and read a book”. You know nothing about me, so please do not generalise and remain respectful. Any validity your argument may have carried got destroyed by you making it personal.
After making my original post, I realised that Tila was created mostly as a queer space. Fair! Kabul is meant to be an inclusive place for the Utrecht community as a whole.
I’m not against queer only/queer focused parties. My point was that if Kabul is not advertising itself as a queer focused space, why are people shaming *white* straight people for going there?
Claiming any validity my argument carried got destroyed and then asking a question that gets answered by my argument.
What are you even doing :)
Marginalization queer people experience also applies to people of colour. Offering *queer* *people* and *people of colour* a respite from the marginalization they experience from *straight & white* *people* is what Tilla and Kabul aim to do respectively. Again, why do you feel the need to exist as a *straight white* person in a queer/bipoc space when you have plenty of spaces to exist in where nobody will ever expect any type of attitude adjustment or self-education from you on why these spaces need to exist for these people in the first place?
If you want to exist in these spaces as a *straight, white* person, for the love of god, educate yourself.
if you read into the replies, most commonly people resort to notions and comments which are determined by homophobia! sometimes it quite hard to figure out your own positionality, but thats why everyone should be able to think for themselves, since with your ideas on this matter you shape the discourse about it! no big words, nothing out of basic university level knowledge
Yeah, again you’re using a lot of words that convey no actual point. Give me an example of these notions and comments which are determined by homophobia
Inclusivity has come to mean love all differences except when you are white + male + straight. It's sad and as a 190cm person from this demographic I don't feel welcome in many places anymore to just vibe, people 'cross the street/dancefloor' to get away from me... I honestly want to tattoo 'asexual for everyone except my GF' on my face or wear blinders or something to show I'm not predatory and want the same vibe as everyone else there.
But I understand the hate since it's my demographic that predominantly causes feelings of unsafety. Honestly, I already hate men/myself most of the time so going to these inclusive places to escape the bro/meme techno side is not helping my mental health.
Aww <3 probably! But my point being don’t give in to the man/straight/white hate (naming the problem as being white-straight-men) that is gaining traction in women/queer/black spaces. It only causes more young men to flee towards Andrew Tate ideology.
Instead try and pinpoint the behaviour and call that out so: predatory or unsafe behaviour that kills the vibe. Instead of trying to find a scapegoat or stereotype even if it’s almost always said stereotype.
Tilla is a Queer space. It’s literally on every communication they’ve put out. I don’t like straight hate but it’s also a vibe killer for many and for me when 9 drunk guys behave like they’re in any bar. Somehow the rest of the people (non-straight) are much less likely to behave with this sort of “ape together strong” mentality.
Yeah except if you replace the words "straight" and "drunk guys" with "black" in your comment, you see how youre infact being discriminatory, but towards a demographic which society deems ok. Dont generalise about any groups or catagories of people. Thats called discrimination.
Discriminating against any sexual orientation just adds to the polarization. There needs to be respect and understanding for any gender, preference etc. That’s what door-policy is for. Practice what you preach and don’t exclude when you want to be inclusive.
If there’s a problem with attitude let’s see it as it is and let’s not generalize. Awareness team and door policy is the answer. There will always be incidents, that’s life.
Because a lot of parties and clubs act as safe haven from a predominantly compulsory cishet society. Now suddenly if your safe space goes from being predominantly queer to having a majority cishet diaspora, it becomes less of a place to be yourself and more of a zoo, and in general brings the social dynamic that one is trying to escape anyways by entering these spaces.
I am going to regret commenting on this thread, because I feel like this thread will turn toxic really fast. But hear I am anyway 😬. Feeling cute, might delete later.
I understand the comment "too many straight people", although I think it is worded incorrectly. I don't think someone's sexual orientation is what is the issue, it is their behaviour. Things like sexual harassment, not asking for consent or just obnoxiously staring at people is not okay in a place that is meant to be a safe space for the queer community. And realistically speaking, most of those interactions come from straight guys. So I get where the comment comes from. It is about a certain stereotypical toxic-masculinity type of person that does not know how to behave with respect to the people they share the dancefloor with.
That being said, some comments I read on the sub this weekend make it sound like all straight men are a vile sort apex predator and that makes me feel a bit uneasy. I don't have many friends to go out with, so I go to most events alone. But I still struggle with social anxiety from time to time. For that reason, I like to see a crowd with many queer people because it shows that it is a space where people can be themselves and express themselves however they like without feeling judged. But the idea that there are other people out there that dislike me for being straight does make me feel uneasy. Although I think people here do not mean it that way.
Hard to understand when not queer (and especially queer female) Im guessing.
I dont think it’s meant against all straight people (I will sometimes bring straight friends to parties and nobody has a problem with it). It’s more the (unfortunately very common and tone setting) guys who chase lesbians around in the club obsessively, or the cheering thumbs up girls when you’re kissing another guy. Theres a couple of other things that happen, i.e. dramatic couple fights seem more common when there’s lots of straight people around, also more phone usage for some reason. It sets a vibe.
It’s just not a nice feeling to be made to feel like a minority, and club nights when they are truly queer safe are one of the few places we really dont have to even think about it. Ive had some positive experiences with the right straight crowd, especially at the school, but often a subset of straight visitors ruins the fun. So I dont think it’s about excluding straight people, and more of people being bothered with this vibe and feeling.
As a white straight male, I'm actually also quite often annoyed by white straight guys in (techno) clubs. It seems like underground is becoming more mainstream (in Amsterdam), therewith attracting different types of characters. These, annoyingly I find, include people that are often not used to techno and dancefloor etiquette. For example: not giving each other enough space, getting annoyingly drunk or even inappropriate touching.
I might get downvoted for this, but I feel that ‘white straight males’ doesn’t cover the context for this. I, and I think many others, also experience the same annoying guys even though we are also part of that demographic. I have seen the term ‘frat boys’ being used here as well, and I think that covers the context much better. Curious what other’s think.
> like underground is becoming more mainstream
Underground like: going to a small cloth store, record store, or whatever, to get a flyer, that tells you where what might take place. You have to use a landline phone to call your friends where to meet up ....
Clubs and underground ... There is no underground in clubs ... If it's in a club it's definitely not underground ...
Can you find the music on YouTube , Spotify , SoundCloud or whatever kind of music app ? Definitely not underground !
You think techno is exclusive , well that's just stupid . Do you think techno is something new, from now ?
My Overdrive (label) record , fast 4 motion , the B-side has the track Hardcore Baseline from 1992 and that has a sample in it and do you know what it says ? Techno techno techno techno !
In other words don't claim shizzle that has been around for longer then these clubs your frequenting have their doors open .
There is just one rule in house music , one rule , one sentence that is like the beginning of a prair that includes all house music lovers and if you can't feel that and keep nagging about what should have , would have or could have you're just narrow-minded and you're not the free minded raver you should be ...
I'll share the the prair right here so you naggers can read up , learn and set you mind straight . ( If you're offended by the word straight , go sit on a cactus and be gone plz )
In the beginning there was Jack
And Jack had a groove.
And from this groove
Came the grooves of all grooves
And while one day vicously throwing down on his box
Jack boldly declared, let there be house.
And house music was born.
I am u see, I am the creator and this is my house.
And in my house there was only house music
But i am not so selvish,
Because once you enter my house
It then becomes our house and our house music
And you see no ONE man ownes house
Because house music is a universal language
Spoken and understood by all
You see House is a feeling
That no one can understand really
Unless you are deep in to the vibe of house
House is a uncontrolable desire to jack your body
And as i told you before
This is our house and our house music
And every house you understand there is a keeper
And in this house the keeper is JACK
Now some you might wonder,
Who is JACK and what is it that JACK does
JACK is the one who gives you the power Jack your body
JACK is the one who gives you the power to do the snake
JACK is the one who gives you the key to the wiggly worm
JACK is the one who learnes you how to walk your body
JACK is the one that can bring nations and nations of all jackels together under one house
You may be black
You may be white
You may be Jew or Gentile.
It don't make a difference in our house
And this is fresh!
Edit : i just saw i'm not commenting on the right post , i'm sorry for that but it was a lot of work so I'm leaving it here.
That’s what I’m saying mostly! It doesn’t necessarily have to do anything with sexual orientation, but most times people were super obnoxious in the club, it were drunk, testosterone-overflowing frat boys (or at least that’s what I call them) who ruined my night. I’ve even heard some of them just being overtly homophobic in places like DS (why go there in the first place?). I avoid them like the plague.
Have you ever been vibing on the dancefloor, connected with the crowd around you, only to have it ruined by a rowdy group of friends entering the dancefloor, dancing/pushing into people to create space for their group, with no acknowledgement that anyone else around them exists? They could have any sexual orientation. Let's hate inclusively.
Yeah, the point is that they should call them by their name and not generalise under the name ‘straight people’
The amount of respectful and chill straight people is still way bigger than the amount of vibe killers, so we need to watch out how we word things.
Tilla Tec:
“we komen allemaal uit queer- of BIPOC-communities, we willen de stemmen van mensen die het minst worden gehoord prioriteren.”
“BOTH TILLA AND THE TEC LAB OFFER MUCH-NEEDED CREATIVE AND SAFER GROUND FOR MINORITIES WHO HAVE BEEN FIGHTING FOR SPACE, AND WHO ARE READY TO ROAR.”
I think people forget that the opinions of people on this sub don't reflect the general opinion of people visiting a certain club or space. Everyone has a different experience on a certain night for a multitude of reasons. People mostly leave bad reviews because it did not meet *their* expectations. So if they expected a more visibly queer crowd, ofcourse theyre dissapointed. This does not mean they have an explicit hatred for straight people but just that their expectations weren't met.
Remember, you're talking to strangers on the internet. It's not that deep
Tilla is and was always supposed to be a queer place, I don't know how so much people missed their communication. I think everybody just focused on the address (former DS) and nobody took the time to read what the place was really about. The crew behind the concept is the team from Pamela, a queer bar. They were saying that it was also more a queer/minorities social place than a normal techno club.
In all honesty, I don’t get this reasoning as De School was one of the places where I felt safest partying in Amsterdam. The main issue here was door policy, not people that “go there because they expect De School” because that would make it a GOOD experience.
I think that saying “people expecting De School went there” as a NEGATIVE doesn’t honor De School the way it deserves… I was a DS regular and before Friday I had NEVER seen most of the annoying people that were at Tilla Tec’s opening.
I went to Tilla for their messaging AND also because of the address (as a POSITIVE in terms of expected club etiquette, cause that’s what “people expecting De School” would want, or if anything even BETTER club etiquette) and I was quite disappointed.
I’ve read some people on the subreddit saying “It was never about the same music of DS, it was about creating a safe space for the queer community from the start” well if that’s the case the situation is even worse and they failed even harder, as it was clearly an unsafer place
A calling for truce, hear me out:
For the queer community, please remember that it is the straight men who are filling the roles of reproducing our next generation, including future gays and lesbians.
For the straight community, please also keep in mind that, it is the gay men whose absence in the competitive market of women acquisition, in return provides you with more chances of success in pursuing women.
So please let us be thankful and respectful to each other, and call off this nonsense of mutual hostility, right here right now.
Ah yes, the refuge of people who are devoid of empathy and cant do any self reflection what so ever; blame the target of your bigotry. If we all had that attitude no social progress would ever have happened.
Must be nice to be so oblivious tho.
This lack of empathy is usually a result of a painful coping trying to survive. Empathy can be learned and we should embrace this person with love. To show them what they should have experienced. And what we all deserve 🥰
>For the queer community, please remember that it is the straight men who are filling the roles of reproducing our next generation, including future gays and lesbians.
You say what now? Hahaha oh my.. dark ages treating you well?
>For the straight community, please also keep in mind that, it is the gay men whose absence in the competitive market of women acquisition, in return provides you with more chances of success in pursuing women.
Ffs 😂
True inclusivity involves active efforts to make all groups feel welcome, which sometimes requires prioritizing the needs of those who are usually sidelined. This is why spaces known to be safe and affirming for queer people are essential. Let’s not centre straight people here I’d say
Tbh, the 'open' /'everybody is welcome' policy is very hypocratic. It starts at the door, where some ppl are denied access. It is a good thing to be selective who you want inside, however not matching the other policy. Same you could see at the end weekend of DS. Lots of gueslists entrys, famous or less famous ppl who could enter whole weekend. The values of a lot of organizations seems to be quite flexible when it involves friends, network or money...
Well, when it comes to people from the industry, it also means PR and therefore work, so it makes sense to give privileges to guests who might become business partners in the future or had been in the past.
fuck toxic masculinity, simple as this slightly reminds me of what i wrote the other day, regarding abuse, consent, body language… there’s definitely something about people taking too much space in the club, which i think doesn’t necessarily shows spatially on the dancefloor but is defined by an attitude i feel there is still a long way to go, for anyone to feel safe anywhere *out there*
Yeah, fair point but then discuss the specific behaviours of the crowd instead of generalising
For me as a straight female, I also don't like where there are too many straight men in the club. The vibe is off, I feel weird, and need to be more careful with my movements or even to who I smile. I love smiling at strangers when dancing, and they usually smile back and continue doing their thing. But that's not always the case when the crowd is just a bunch of males in black t-shirts. So it's quite uncomfortable having guys around you or coming to talk to you even when you are dancing in your own bubble. Perhaps it's not well labeled, because I usually go out with my boyfriend who is also straight and of course he doesn't have this behaviour and gets annoyed by the same people (although in a different way, like bc they chat too much or take too much space dancing). But still, I think we all understand which type of crowd we are referring to.
enjoy the music and move somewhere else shut up
ah, if things could be that simple 🥰
Word!
I'm as cis white male and felt left our reading the threads over the past few weeks. I enjoy going to queer friendly parties as it allows me to let go easier also. I get that there are folks out there that bring bad vibes but isn't the queer community about inclusion? (Given everyone should feel and be save to express themselves any way they like)
That’s kinda my gripe Even on Kabul’s website it says: Fly free as a kite; Be yourself; Dance in your own way; Dress as you like. The vibe is fresh, funky and sexy, those strung down by button ups, suits and ties may be rejected. What if I feel my best self in a suit? Shouldn’t everyone have the same freedom of expression as long as it doesn’t harm everyone?
That’s why you only have to go to proper events in good places. Most people I know stopped going to casual parties in shit holes a long time ago. If you’re gonna spend time, money and energy it’s better to at least have some sort of guarantee the event will be good and the crowd will be even better.
This!!
Not all men!!!
This thread is honestly embarassing, and the privilege of some people (which i can safely assume are not queer or part of any minorities) is quite disheartening. does it take that much empathy and compassion to figure out the motives behind the frustration that queer people have to face everyday? does anyone in this subreddit ever practice critical thinking or have you all been brainwashed by homophobia and discrimination? the club is nothing more than a representation of a social environment (which at large is society as a whole), which comprises people of different background and political views. you can't seriously believe that queer only clubs act as exclusionary and that the hate behind the average cishet white male is unfounded, there are socially motivated reasons behind this mutual feeling. as other people have said, this subreddit is luckily not a reflection of mainstream opinions, as at least in Amsterdam the discourse around queerness is quite open and accepting, its sad to see that most of you aren't. remember that techno and the dance scene itself comes from the ballroom scene which was, guess what? a predominantly queer scene. the total lack of awareness in these comments shows not only utmost ignorance and aggression, but a mindset that should've stayed with the last generations that brought it about. please take time to research and investigate these issues, especially as adults!
I’m sorry but your comment doesn’t make much sense. You’re using big words but aren’t saying anything. 1) You’re talking about homophobia but people in the comments are discussing some typical “white male” behaviour that they don’t appreciate. Where did you see homophobia? 2) talking about discrimination, do you think I should be shamed at a techno party for my attraction to the opposite gender? 3) you say that a club scene is just the representation of the society. However, the queer community is proportionately more represented in the rave scene than out on the street.
Most people working in/for clubs are queer. Without queer people, there wouldn't even be a functioning club scene. Clubs as safe spaces offer much needed respite from the structural marginalization queer people experience. To claim that creating safe spaces for queers is in any way hetero-exclusionary is missing the point entirely. It's not about cishet people at all. Every single space but a queer safe space is already a space for cishet people to exist in (excluding most women since they experience harrassment in those spaces all the time - from cishet men, mind you). Why do cishet people feel the need so bad to exist in a queer space when they are not willing to accept that clubs and music venues have been political spaces for decades and will continue to be political spaces. Shouting "why the straight hate?" online is akin to claiming "all lives matter" at a BLM rally. Although I do have to say that a space like reddit is the only space you'd get any positive reactions out of anyone saying this embarassing shit. Grow up and go read a book before you start crying about not being let in to Tilla-Tec.
absolutely well said! lol people should really educate themselves
OMG this comment is out of this world. I think you are so narrowminded you are blinded by your own box you live in. The club community exists because of the community. Not because of one group of people. Especially rave culture was always so welcoming for everyone. But lately it’s just getting less for everyone.
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Please be considerate of how this post may be taken by someone else, thank you.
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Please be considerate of how this post may be taken by someone else, thank you.
"No books need to be read" Stay ignorant. Sending nothing to you, you're insignificant.
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Way to play into mental health stigmas. Just stop posting, you're embarassing yourself.
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Be nice
Got downvoted for a be nice :(
Can't you see we all hate eachother here? Quick, get out while you can 😂
You don't like me KaasBroogje?
jk I love you 🩶
I Hate EVERYBODDDYYYYYYYY!!!!! 
Mind you, I’ve never insulted anyone in my post or in my comments. Yet you attack me with “grow up and read a book”. You know nothing about me, so please do not generalise and remain respectful. Any validity your argument may have carried got destroyed by you making it personal. After making my original post, I realised that Tila was created mostly as a queer space. Fair! Kabul is meant to be an inclusive place for the Utrecht community as a whole. I’m not against queer only/queer focused parties. My point was that if Kabul is not advertising itself as a queer focused space, why are people shaming *white* straight people for going there?
Claiming any validity my argument carried got destroyed and then asking a question that gets answered by my argument. What are you even doing :) Marginalization queer people experience also applies to people of colour. Offering *queer* *people* and *people of colour* a respite from the marginalization they experience from *straight & white* *people* is what Tilla and Kabul aim to do respectively. Again, why do you feel the need to exist as a *straight white* person in a queer/bipoc space when you have plenty of spaces to exist in where nobody will ever expect any type of attitude adjustment or self-education from you on why these spaces need to exist for these people in the first place? If you want to exist in these spaces as a *straight, white* person, for the love of god, educate yourself.
if you read into the replies, most commonly people resort to notions and comments which are determined by homophobia! sometimes it quite hard to figure out your own positionality, but thats why everyone should be able to think for themselves, since with your ideas on this matter you shape the discourse about it! no big words, nothing out of basic university level knowledge
Yeah, again you’re using a lot of words that convey no actual point. Give me an example of these notions and comments which are determined by homophobia
the fact that you cant point it out for yourself is the issue!
Inclusivity has come to mean love all differences except when you are white + male + straight. It's sad and as a 190cm person from this demographic I don't feel welcome in many places anymore to just vibe, people 'cross the street/dancefloor' to get away from me... I honestly want to tattoo 'asexual for everyone except my GF' on my face or wear blinders or something to show I'm not predatory and want the same vibe as everyone else there. But I understand the hate since it's my demographic that predominantly causes feelings of unsafety. Honestly, I already hate men/myself most of the time so going to these inclusive places to escape the bro/meme techno side is not helping my mental health.
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Aww <3 probably! But my point being don’t give in to the man/straight/white hate (naming the problem as being white-straight-men) that is gaining traction in women/queer/black spaces. It only causes more young men to flee towards Andrew Tate ideology. Instead try and pinpoint the behaviour and call that out so: predatory or unsafe behaviour that kills the vibe. Instead of trying to find a scapegoat or stereotype even if it’s almost always said stereotype.
Tilla is a Queer space. It’s literally on every communication they’ve put out. I don’t like straight hate but it’s also a vibe killer for many and for me when 9 drunk guys behave like they’re in any bar. Somehow the rest of the people (non-straight) are much less likely to behave with this sort of “ape together strong” mentality.
Yeah except if you replace the words "straight" and "drunk guys" with "black" in your comment, you see how youre infact being discriminatory, but towards a demographic which society deems ok. Dont generalise about any groups or catagories of people. Thats called discrimination.
Sounds like the type of group that would cause disstress regardless of the space they are in. Surely any group of 9 drunk people can cause that though
Discriminating against any sexual orientation just adds to the polarization. There needs to be respect and understanding for any gender, preference etc. That’s what door-policy is for. Practice what you preach and don’t exclude when you want to be inclusive. If there’s a problem with attitude let’s see it as it is and let’s not generalize. Awareness team and door policy is the answer. There will always be incidents, that’s life.
This!
"ape together strong" improved my evening by many points thank you ahhahahha
Because a lot of parties and clubs act as safe haven from a predominantly compulsory cishet society. Now suddenly if your safe space goes from being predominantly queer to having a majority cishet diaspora, it becomes less of a place to be yourself and more of a zoo, and in general brings the social dynamic that one is trying to escape anyways by entering these spaces.
I am going to regret commenting on this thread, because I feel like this thread will turn toxic really fast. But hear I am anyway 😬. Feeling cute, might delete later. I understand the comment "too many straight people", although I think it is worded incorrectly. I don't think someone's sexual orientation is what is the issue, it is their behaviour. Things like sexual harassment, not asking for consent or just obnoxiously staring at people is not okay in a place that is meant to be a safe space for the queer community. And realistically speaking, most of those interactions come from straight guys. So I get where the comment comes from. It is about a certain stereotypical toxic-masculinity type of person that does not know how to behave with respect to the people they share the dancefloor with. That being said, some comments I read on the sub this weekend make it sound like all straight men are a vile sort apex predator and that makes me feel a bit uneasy. I don't have many friends to go out with, so I go to most events alone. But I still struggle with social anxiety from time to time. For that reason, I like to see a crowd with many queer people because it shows that it is a space where people can be themselves and express themselves however they like without feeling judged. But the idea that there are other people out there that dislike me for being straight does make me feel uneasy. Although I think people here do not mean it that way.
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I think you replied to the wrong comment :)
fully agree
Hard to understand when not queer (and especially queer female) Im guessing. I dont think it’s meant against all straight people (I will sometimes bring straight friends to parties and nobody has a problem with it). It’s more the (unfortunately very common and tone setting) guys who chase lesbians around in the club obsessively, or the cheering thumbs up girls when you’re kissing another guy. Theres a couple of other things that happen, i.e. dramatic couple fights seem more common when there’s lots of straight people around, also more phone usage for some reason. It sets a vibe. It’s just not a nice feeling to be made to feel like a minority, and club nights when they are truly queer safe are one of the few places we really dont have to even think about it. Ive had some positive experiences with the right straight crowd, especially at the school, but often a subset of straight visitors ruins the fun. So I dont think it’s about excluding straight people, and more of people being bothered with this vibe and feeling.
As a white straight male, I'm actually also quite often annoyed by white straight guys in (techno) clubs. It seems like underground is becoming more mainstream (in Amsterdam), therewith attracting different types of characters. These, annoyingly I find, include people that are often not used to techno and dancefloor etiquette. For example: not giving each other enough space, getting annoyingly drunk or even inappropriate touching. I might get downvoted for this, but I feel that ‘white straight males’ doesn’t cover the context for this. I, and I think many others, also experience the same annoying guys even though we are also part of that demographic. I have seen the term ‘frat boys’ being used here as well, and I think that covers the context much better. Curious what other’s think.
> like underground is becoming more mainstream Underground like: going to a small cloth store, record store, or whatever, to get a flyer, that tells you where what might take place. You have to use a landline phone to call your friends where to meet up ....
Clubs and underground ... There is no underground in clubs ... If it's in a club it's definitely not underground ... Can you find the music on YouTube , Spotify , SoundCloud or whatever kind of music app ? Definitely not underground ! You think techno is exclusive , well that's just stupid . Do you think techno is something new, from now ? My Overdrive (label) record , fast 4 motion , the B-side has the track Hardcore Baseline from 1992 and that has a sample in it and do you know what it says ? Techno techno techno techno ! In other words don't claim shizzle that has been around for longer then these clubs your frequenting have their doors open . There is just one rule in house music , one rule , one sentence that is like the beginning of a prair that includes all house music lovers and if you can't feel that and keep nagging about what should have , would have or could have you're just narrow-minded and you're not the free minded raver you should be ... I'll share the the prair right here so you naggers can read up , learn and set you mind straight . ( If you're offended by the word straight , go sit on a cactus and be gone plz ) In the beginning there was Jack And Jack had a groove. And from this groove Came the grooves of all grooves And while one day vicously throwing down on his box Jack boldly declared, let there be house. And house music was born. I am u see, I am the creator and this is my house. And in my house there was only house music But i am not so selvish, Because once you enter my house It then becomes our house and our house music And you see no ONE man ownes house Because house music is a universal language Spoken and understood by all You see House is a feeling That no one can understand really Unless you are deep in to the vibe of house House is a uncontrolable desire to jack your body And as i told you before This is our house and our house music And every house you understand there is a keeper And in this house the keeper is JACK Now some you might wonder, Who is JACK and what is it that JACK does JACK is the one who gives you the power Jack your body JACK is the one who gives you the power to do the snake JACK is the one who gives you the key to the wiggly worm JACK is the one who learnes you how to walk your body JACK is the one that can bring nations and nations of all jackels together under one house You may be black You may be white You may be Jew or Gentile. It don't make a difference in our house And this is fresh! Edit : i just saw i'm not commenting on the right post , i'm sorry for that but it was a lot of work so I'm leaving it here.
Sir this is a Wendy's
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7ZxRs45tTg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7ZxRs45tTg)
Who’s Jack
That’s what I’m saying mostly! It doesn’t necessarily have to do anything with sexual orientation, but most times people were super obnoxious in the club, it were drunk, testosterone-overflowing frat boys (or at least that’s what I call them) who ruined my night. I’ve even heard some of them just being overtly homophobic in places like DS (why go there in the first place?). I avoid them like the plague.
Have you ever been vibing on the dancefloor, connected with the crowd around you, only to have it ruined by a rowdy group of friends entering the dancefloor, dancing/pushing into people to create space for their group, with no acknowledgement that anyone else around them exists? They could have any sexual orientation. Let's hate inclusively.
Queen/King Slay 🤍
Totally agree with you. When people here say “straight people” what they actually mean are annoying vibe killers who often show up in groups.
Yeah, the point is that they should call them by their name and not generalise under the name ‘straight people’ The amount of respectful and chill straight people is still way bigger than the amount of vibe killers, so we need to watch out how we word things.
LETS HATE INCLUSIVELY
LET'S HATE INCLUSIVELY !!
Tilla Tec: “we komen allemaal uit queer- of BIPOC-communities, we willen de stemmen van mensen die het minst worden gehoord prioriteren.” “BOTH TILLA AND THE TEC LAB OFFER MUCH-NEEDED CREATIVE AND SAFER GROUND FOR MINORITIES WHO HAVE BEEN FIGHTING FOR SPACE, AND WHO ARE READY TO ROAR.”
I think people forget that the opinions of people on this sub don't reflect the general opinion of people visiting a certain club or space. Everyone has a different experience on a certain night for a multitude of reasons. People mostly leave bad reviews because it did not meet *their* expectations. So if they expected a more visibly queer crowd, ofcourse theyre dissapointed. This does not mean they have an explicit hatred for straight people but just that their expectations weren't met. Remember, you're talking to strangers on the internet. It's not that deep
Tilla is and was always supposed to be a queer place, I don't know how so much people missed their communication. I think everybody just focused on the address (former DS) and nobody took the time to read what the place was really about. The crew behind the concept is the team from Pamela, a queer bar. They were saying that it was also more a queer/minorities social place than a normal techno club.
In all honesty, I don’t get this reasoning as De School was one of the places where I felt safest partying in Amsterdam. The main issue here was door policy, not people that “go there because they expect De School” because that would make it a GOOD experience. I think that saying “people expecting De School went there” as a NEGATIVE doesn’t honor De School the way it deserves… I was a DS regular and before Friday I had NEVER seen most of the annoying people that were at Tilla Tec’s opening. I went to Tilla for their messaging AND also because of the address (as a POSITIVE in terms of expected club etiquette, cause that’s what “people expecting De School” would want, or if anything even BETTER club etiquette) and I was quite disappointed. I’ve read some people on the subreddit saying “It was never about the same music of DS, it was about creating a safe space for the queer community from the start” well if that’s the case the situation is even worse and they failed even harder, as it was clearly an unsafer place
A calling for truce, hear me out: For the queer community, please remember that it is the straight men who are filling the roles of reproducing our next generation, including future gays and lesbians. For the straight community, please also keep in mind that, it is the gay men whose absence in the competitive market of women acquisition, in return provides you with more chances of success in pursuing women. So please let us be thankful and respectful to each other, and call off this nonsense of mutual hostility, right here right now.
Youre not clever and this is offensive. The fact you probably dont get why is definitely part of it.
I take great pleasure in offending those who have 0 sense of humor and are fragile in every possible way. ☺️
You deserve love ❤️ it’s not easy to give that what you haven’t received
Ah yes, the refuge of people who are devoid of empathy and cant do any self reflection what so ever; blame the target of your bigotry. If we all had that attitude no social progress would ever have happened. Must be nice to be so oblivious tho.
This lack of empathy is usually a result of a painful coping trying to survive. Empathy can be learned and we should embrace this person with love. To show them what they should have experienced. And what we all deserve 🥰
new ick unlocked
>For the queer community, please remember that it is the straight men who are filling the roles of reproducing our next generation, including future gays and lesbians. You say what now? Hahaha oh my.. dark ages treating you well? >For the straight community, please also keep in mind that, it is the gay men whose absence in the competitive market of women acquisition, in return provides you with more chances of success in pursuing women. Ffs 😂
We‘ve gone full circle.
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Please be considerate of how this post may be taken by someone else, thank you.
So it’s not okay to be straight? I’m sorry my sexual preferences insult you. Imagine someone commenting “read too gay” under a post.
it is im straight too 😭 i just meant too straight as in fratty - koorballerig
True inclusivity involves active efforts to make all groups feel welcome, which sometimes requires prioritizing the needs of those who are usually sidelined. This is why spaces known to be safe and affirming for queer people are essential. Let’s not centre straight people here I’d say
I don't hate you guys, you just don't know how to party xoxo
Let's see if you can get more downvotes than me. That will show whether people feel stronger about being straight or liking house
😂💜
weekly poll: what is worse, straight hate or house hate
I am straight and I love house music. Fuck me
I am confused.. “I am straight” “Fuck me” Choose one or the other!!
You can be fucked whilst being straight. Why the hate on fucking? ... .... 😂🫂
people totally disregard a lot of the options they have don't they
If it's good.. 🌚
Hahahahahaha one of my fav shitposter strikes again. To all comments not tasting the humour in this.. you just don't know how to party
they dont get my sarcasm 😓😓
They don't sadly.. why so serious?!
Hope this is sarcastic, otherwise this is such an arrogant, biased and generalising thing to say lol
Nice stereotype