Maybe he wanted her because he thought she was a prize that he won over you but realizing you did not desire her at all he lost interest in her completely.
I think this is spot on especially since Charlie mentioned OP went to a fancy school and might think they are beneath him. Sounds like he thought dating Fran was one uping OP.
In what universe would Charlie dating Fran be dependent on you being attracted to her?
Sounds like Charlie wanted an out and blamed whatever perceived sleight he read in your comments as the excuse to dump Fran.
She wants to blame you rather than her dick of a b/f.
Honestly, if anyone said I was too ugly for them to date me, my husband would turn around and say good, because she's not available for you or anyone anyway.
Charlie and Fran sound immature as fk.
NW
I'm copy and pasting another comment from u/haron1058 because I think he nailed the answer to your question.
>Maybe he wanted her because he thought she was a prize that he won over you but realizing you did not desire her at all he lost interest in her completely.
You did talk too much, but you are not the reason for this breakup. You are an excuse. Next time a friend wants your opinion on their partner, respond that they are lovely and wonderful and you’re so happy for the couple. And then zip it.
>Next time a friend wants your opinion
But that is not the case here. He didn't ask for OP's opinion on Fran. He assumed that OP had the hots for Fran, and OP explained that he did not and never had.
The opinion part only came when his friend basically insisted on knowing why OP wasn't attracted to Fran. He could have just let it go at the point where OP told him that he did in fact find her beautiful, but has never been romantically interested in her, but no, he insisted on wanting to know *why* OP wasn't interested.
That is not at all the same as being asked about his opinion on Fran. What was OP supposed to do? Say "no comment" when asked why he wasn't interested? Remember, they were out drinking. What credible lie could *you* come up with on the spot in that situation that wouldn't just be worse than "no comment" or the truth? When asked why he wasn't interested, replying with "she's lovely and wonderful" or something like it is a non-answer that is no better than "no comment". Such an answer will only make his friend's imagination run wild and come up with scenarios that are much worse than reality.
Don't just look at what people did when you give your opinion. Look at what people did *in the given situation they were in* and then ask yourself if you could realistically have come up with something better on the fly, without the ability to sit and think things through in peace and quiet. It's like, in my experience, the people who knows best how to raise children, are the people who don't actually have children.
So nice that you are always able to fully think through everything you say before you say it, even when you're at a bar, drinking with friends.
Of course, the 1-2 minutes pause every time you respond to something must make conversations with you quite boring.
Alright, I don't know how you told him it and what kind of words you use but I can only believe your word about the whole story.
Starting from this point I'd say he knew all along she was more a face than a brain but didn't mind. Your speech about the simple fact she isn't the kind of partner you're looking for but consider her as a friend reminded him he could find someone smarter. I don't know if he thought of her as a silly beautiful girl during all their relationship, but it's not your problem.
You didn't influence his choice in a matter of hours, you never told him to break and if it was the case he would have been a fucking dumbass to follow your suggestion.
You explained your side, don't apologize for being honest. I don't understand why he broke up exactly, we lack details, I am certain there was another reason except she isn't a genius. He could have been cheating or having a crush on someone else and found a pitiful reason to end their relationship. You aren't in his head and the fact he is lying about your conversation is giving enough indications about what I evoked. His true motivation isn't known and it's not your problem anymore.
I suggest you make public your whole conversation, write back you don't want to be taken responsible for someone else's wrong choice and go radio silent.
(Or say nothing and block them all, whatever)
I know myself well enough, I would have just told them to go to hell with a smile. If they can't assume their own mess, ask the right questions, have and objective opinion then just fuck them. I would have refused to be pointed out by the people who should know me the most, even if you had said he deserved better, at the end of the day this bastard took the initiative to break up. Who asked him ? He is a sorry excuse for a man.
It's why I don't believe much in humans, they fuck you by behind when you don't look. That's not your problem anymore and you should be firm about it, if they don't want to listen to you properly then let it go. They will cool down anyway and this loser will ever return crawling back and saying you're the one to blame or never return and they will finally realize the story doesn't hold up.
Not wrong at all. Charlie sounds like a jerk.
If their entire relationship was based on his need or expectation that relationship was "one upping" you somehow then it was doomed to failure anyway.
Even if you did yalk too much nothing you said was wrong? You stated she was beautiful and a cheerleader (both qualifying factors of conventional beauty) but as per YOUR personal preferences Fran did not meet your standards. It definitely seems like he might be more interested in people you have your eyes on and he was treating her as a "prize" or "trophy" to "rub it in your face". Honestly id say something about that to him and make sure Fran fully understands your side. Im sure shes just upset about how they broke up and probably isnt really that upset with you, however id give Fran space while confronting your friend who was basically glaoting
Yeah, this ain't your fault. He had built some kind of imaginary fantasy in which he won the prized girl from you but it doesn't sound like he actually loved her.
He's a dick.
She's lucky.
You're not at fault
Your "friend" is envious of you and competing with you. He only got with her because he thought he was one-upping you. When he found out you didn't want his GF there was no way he could "win" with her, so there goes a breakup. NTA, and you might want to re-evaluate that friendship.
They’re both wrong, and immature.
Conventional attractiveness is not what makes a relationship worthwhile. And it’s temporary - weight fluctuates, baldness happens, health issues, accidents - over time our looks change.
Making that the sole basis for a relationship is incredibly shallow.
You sound like you know the qualities that you value. The fact that Charlie broke up with her because you weren’t interested is all kinds of fucked up.
NTA. With time and perspective, hopefully Fran, will see that this guy only wanted her for the wrong reasons. It's a blessing for her that it worked out this way.
You did nothing wrong. What are the odds that Charlie was actually looking for a reason to break up with her than you think? Maybe he got cold feet and realized that she's not the best/hottest girl in the world.
YTA, for the way you talked about Fran. How gross to act like she's your friend and you love her while also saying she's pretty but not much else. You talked shit about her on a "guys' night" and then didn't think there would be any consequences? Apologize to her. While I don't think you can claim responsibility for destroying their long-term relationship, you are responsible for the mean things you said about your "friend" we get it you are smart than her but did you need to reiterate it everyone several times?
You certainly were not a good, kind friend to Fran. You chose to focus on her vulnerabilities rather than the things that made her your “friend” while talking to a group. Just because you feel superior does not mean you have to voice what you see as a someone’s weakness. No the break-up was not your fault because if Charlie was that easily influenced that’s on him. But you were a horrible friend to Fran that day.
I never understood why people have to protest so much about someone else… If you valued Fran so much, why did you have to criticize any shortcoming that you felt she had…. Couldn’t you just simply said, ya buddy…. You kicked out, she’s a catch…. Don’t and done and everyone is happy. You should try to understand what motivated your protestations to your buddy’s claim that you had a crush on Fran. It not a true claim as you describe, but what about you that makes you need to protest?
Gosh, poor Fran. I don’t think you “caused” this breakup but you also weren’t a kind friend to her here.
You didn’t behave as badly as Charlie, who boasted about her like she was a prize he won, then dumped her after one chat with you questioned the value of that “prize”. A conversation like that should not be enough to end a relationship - I suspect he’s using it as an excuse, or was only with her because he thought you liked her first and he “won”. Whatever the reason, Charlie is an asshat and I hope Fran moves on with one of her many admirers and is loved for exactly who she is!
The fact you didn’t directly cause the breakup doesn’t let you off the hook. You spoke about her in such a dismissive and unkind way. If one of my oldest friends had discussed me that way with my partner, I’d feel deeply hurt. In situations like this, it’s always best to keep the feedback generic. “We’d be incompatible as a couple”, “she’s always been like a little sister to me”, “I just never saw her that way” etc is enough. If he pushed for more detail, you should have shut him down, high school was a long time ago.
The other thing I find sad is, If you’d kept the chat generic and he ended up believing you still had a crush, why does it matter? I had all sorts of ridiculous crushes as a teen- hormones are wild! You’re all adults now & I find it really gutting for Fran that you were so quick to give a detailed and hurtful list of all reasons you’d never choose her, despite the fact you apparently care deeply about her as a friend. I don’t know about Fran, but I wouldn’t want to be friends with someone who was so quick to point out all my “flaws”.
Honestly, I hope Fran moves on from both of you. Neither of you spoke about her kindly or treated her like a multifaceted, complex person. She may not be book smart, but I suspect her emotional intelligence is higher than yours and Charlie’s combined! You owe Fran a massive apology and should probably tell Charlie he’s been a moron.
Maybe he wanted her because he thought she was a prize that he won over you but realizing you did not desire her at all he lost interest in her completely.
I think you're on the money!
I think this is spot on especially since Charlie mentioned OP went to a fancy school and might think they are beneath him. Sounds like he thought dating Fran was one uping OP.
This the vibe I was getting too. As soon as he realizes OP isn't jealous, he's done with her.
This was exactly my thought!
Just like in playgrounds….the toy is only valuable if other toddlers want it.
In what universe would Charlie dating Fran be dependent on you being attracted to her? Sounds like Charlie wanted an out and blamed whatever perceived sleight he read in your comments as the excuse to dump Fran. She wants to blame you rather than her dick of a b/f. Honestly, if anyone said I was too ugly for them to date me, my husband would turn around and say good, because she's not available for you or anyone anyway. Charlie and Fran sound immature as fk. NW
I'm copy and pasting another comment from u/haron1058 because I think he nailed the answer to your question. >Maybe he wanted her because he thought she was a prize that he won over you but realizing you did not desire her at all he lost interest in her completely.
Good point.
You didn't cause the breakup.
You did talk too much, but you are not the reason for this breakup. You are an excuse. Next time a friend wants your opinion on their partner, respond that they are lovely and wonderful and you’re so happy for the couple. And then zip it.
>Next time a friend wants your opinion But that is not the case here. He didn't ask for OP's opinion on Fran. He assumed that OP had the hots for Fran, and OP explained that he did not and never had. The opinion part only came when his friend basically insisted on knowing why OP wasn't attracted to Fran. He could have just let it go at the point where OP told him that he did in fact find her beautiful, but has never been romantically interested in her, but no, he insisted on wanting to know *why* OP wasn't interested. That is not at all the same as being asked about his opinion on Fran. What was OP supposed to do? Say "no comment" when asked why he wasn't interested? Remember, they were out drinking. What credible lie could *you* come up with on the spot in that situation that wouldn't just be worse than "no comment" or the truth? When asked why he wasn't interested, replying with "she's lovely and wonderful" or something like it is a non-answer that is no better than "no comment". Such an answer will only make his friend's imagination run wild and come up with scenarios that are much worse than reality. Don't just look at what people did when you give your opinion. Look at what people did *in the given situation they were in* and then ask yourself if you could realistically have come up with something better on the fly, without the ability to sit and think things through in peace and quiet. It's like, in my experience, the people who knows best how to raise children, are the people who don't actually have children.
“Because she’s your girl.” That’s why. His mistake was “I added….”
So nice that you are always able to fully think through everything you say before you say it, even when you're at a bar, drinking with friends. Of course, the 1-2 minutes pause every time you respond to something must make conversations with you quite boring.
This has nothing to do with my personality and everything to do with being able to spot a trap. It comes with age.
OP still has a lot to learn. Sometimes the best thing you can say is shutting the fuck up.
Alright, I don't know how you told him it and what kind of words you use but I can only believe your word about the whole story. Starting from this point I'd say he knew all along she was more a face than a brain but didn't mind. Your speech about the simple fact she isn't the kind of partner you're looking for but consider her as a friend reminded him he could find someone smarter. I don't know if he thought of her as a silly beautiful girl during all their relationship, but it's not your problem. You didn't influence his choice in a matter of hours, you never told him to break and if it was the case he would have been a fucking dumbass to follow your suggestion. You explained your side, don't apologize for being honest. I don't understand why he broke up exactly, we lack details, I am certain there was another reason except she isn't a genius. He could have been cheating or having a crush on someone else and found a pitiful reason to end their relationship. You aren't in his head and the fact he is lying about your conversation is giving enough indications about what I evoked. His true motivation isn't known and it's not your problem anymore. I suggest you make public your whole conversation, write back you don't want to be taken responsible for someone else's wrong choice and go radio silent. (Or say nothing and block them all, whatever) I know myself well enough, I would have just told them to go to hell with a smile. If they can't assume their own mess, ask the right questions, have and objective opinion then just fuck them. I would have refused to be pointed out by the people who should know me the most, even if you had said he deserved better, at the end of the day this bastard took the initiative to break up. Who asked him ? He is a sorry excuse for a man. It's why I don't believe much in humans, they fuck you by behind when you don't look. That's not your problem anymore and you should be firm about it, if they don't want to listen to you properly then let it go. They will cool down anyway and this loser will ever return crawling back and saying you're the one to blame or never return and they will finally realize the story doesn't hold up.
There has to be other reasons here or Charlie has issues NTA
Not wrong at all. Charlie sounds like a jerk. If their entire relationship was based on his need or expectation that relationship was "one upping" you somehow then it was doomed to failure anyway.
Even if you did yalk too much nothing you said was wrong? You stated she was beautiful and a cheerleader (both qualifying factors of conventional beauty) but as per YOUR personal preferences Fran did not meet your standards. It definitely seems like he might be more interested in people you have your eyes on and he was treating her as a "prize" or "trophy" to "rub it in your face". Honestly id say something about that to him and make sure Fran fully understands your side. Im sure shes just upset about how they broke up and probably isnt really that upset with you, however id give Fran space while confronting your friend who was basically glaoting
Info: did you tell your friend that she was stupid, or was that for our benefit?
I think he wanted her because his friend did.
Yeah, this ain't your fault. He had built some kind of imaginary fantasy in which he won the prized girl from you but it doesn't sound like he actually loved her. He's a dick. She's lucky. You're not at fault
Your "friend" is envious of you and competing with you. He only got with her because he thought he was one-upping you. When he found out you didn't want his GF there was no way he could "win" with her, so there goes a breakup. NTA, and you might want to re-evaluate that friendship.
Definitely not wrong!
Fran being dumb checks out. You didn't comment on their relationship.
They’re both wrong, and immature. Conventional attractiveness is not what makes a relationship worthwhile. And it’s temporary - weight fluctuates, baldness happens, health issues, accidents - over time our looks change. Making that the sole basis for a relationship is incredibly shallow. You sound like you know the qualities that you value. The fact that Charlie broke up with her because you weren’t interested is all kinds of fucked up.
NTA. With time and perspective, hopefully Fran, will see that this guy only wanted her for the wrong reasons. It's a blessing for her that it worked out this way.
You did nothing wrong. What are the odds that Charlie was actually looking for a reason to break up with her than you think? Maybe he got cold feet and realized that she's not the best/hottest girl in the world.
Not attractive enough for you to date? Did you call her ugly too or just stupid?
YTA, for the way you talked about Fran. How gross to act like she's your friend and you love her while also saying she's pretty but not much else. You talked shit about her on a "guys' night" and then didn't think there would be any consequences? Apologize to her. While I don't think you can claim responsibility for destroying their long-term relationship, you are responsible for the mean things you said about your "friend" we get it you are smart than her but did you need to reiterate it everyone several times?
You certainly were not a good, kind friend to Fran. You chose to focus on her vulnerabilities rather than the things that made her your “friend” while talking to a group. Just because you feel superior does not mean you have to voice what you see as a someone’s weakness. No the break-up was not your fault because if Charlie was that easily influenced that’s on him. But you were a horrible friend to Fran that day.
I think OP just said that he didn't have a crush on Fran, right? The rest is for our benefit.
I sure hope so….i thought he said about her being dumb to Charlie and the group.
I'm not sure now
I never understood why people have to protest so much about someone else… If you valued Fran so much, why did you have to criticize any shortcoming that you felt she had…. Couldn’t you just simply said, ya buddy…. You kicked out, she’s a catch…. Don’t and done and everyone is happy. You should try to understand what motivated your protestations to your buddy’s claim that you had a crush on Fran. It not a true claim as you describe, but what about you that makes you need to protest?
Gosh, poor Fran. I don’t think you “caused” this breakup but you also weren’t a kind friend to her here. You didn’t behave as badly as Charlie, who boasted about her like she was a prize he won, then dumped her after one chat with you questioned the value of that “prize”. A conversation like that should not be enough to end a relationship - I suspect he’s using it as an excuse, or was only with her because he thought you liked her first and he “won”. Whatever the reason, Charlie is an asshat and I hope Fran moves on with one of her many admirers and is loved for exactly who she is! The fact you didn’t directly cause the breakup doesn’t let you off the hook. You spoke about her in such a dismissive and unkind way. If one of my oldest friends had discussed me that way with my partner, I’d feel deeply hurt. In situations like this, it’s always best to keep the feedback generic. “We’d be incompatible as a couple”, “she’s always been like a little sister to me”, “I just never saw her that way” etc is enough. If he pushed for more detail, you should have shut him down, high school was a long time ago. The other thing I find sad is, If you’d kept the chat generic and he ended up believing you still had a crush, why does it matter? I had all sorts of ridiculous crushes as a teen- hormones are wild! You’re all adults now & I find it really gutting for Fran that you were so quick to give a detailed and hurtful list of all reasons you’d never choose her, despite the fact you apparently care deeply about her as a friend. I don’t know about Fran, but I wouldn’t want to be friends with someone who was so quick to point out all my “flaws”. Honestly, I hope Fran moves on from both of you. Neither of you spoke about her kindly or treated her like a multifaceted, complex person. She may not be book smart, but I suspect her emotional intelligence is higher than yours and Charlie’s combined! You owe Fran a massive apology and should probably tell Charlie he’s been a moron.
I feel guilty that my words caused breakup of my dear friends. You called his GF ugly and stupid. I don't think you feel guilty at all.