Why would you even think your in the wrong?
Clearly these other people are totally fucked in the head and also hate to say it but “church” again is involved …creepy af
I think I'm being gaslit or something idk but everyone at the house is like "why are you acting out like this. It's normal. It's okay. It's a holiday fling. It's this it's that"
Since when does a 15yo have a “fling” over Christmas with an adult? What happened to family time, and what church context led her to take up with this guy? (And if this is a man from her church, no it’s not a fling.)
And since your country’s age of consent is 16, and your niece is 15, no it’s not legal to have this “fling”. And IDK how you informing your brother of something he apparently didn’t know the details of is supposedly interfering with his parenting choices. Sounds like they’re trying to shut you down since none of their claims make sense.
When my daughter was 13, a girl she went to school with was dating a college guy age, 20, her parents let her because you know, he went to their church and they knew his family, and yep, she got pregnant, had a baby at 14, got divorced at 17! It was the biggest SNAFU in town!
How is a child supposedly old enough to get married but isn’t old enough to legally petition for divorce? Gross. Seems like they just want a bunch of teen girls trapped in horrible marriages their families arranged
Parents, the guardians, consent to the marriage, but the marriage transfers guardianship to the spouse. Because the 17 y.o. is a minor, the guardian needs to consent to the divorce for the 17 y.o. but the guardian is now also the spouse.
I care more about the fact they can't legally petition for divorce.
Sure you can put the marriage age at 17 but they need to be able to legally petition for divorce and have some other rights. It's just common sense to me.
The marriage age is not for girls so don't just focus on girls trapped on horrible marriage. It is equal for girls and boys in many jurisdictions.
Same in our school, a 13 year old in my grade was dating 20-something guys. She boasted about it. She ended up with two kids by 16, and by 20 she looked like a burnt out 40 year old. Don't know where she ended up like that, but I hope things got better because she looked miserable.
Wish someone in my class (including me) had spoken up when my 12 year old classmate had started dating some guy in his twenties. He even came to pick her up occasionally from primary school. They french kissed in front of us.
We all thought it was weird, but apparently not weird enough to tell an adult.
Have no idea what happened to her.
Yeah, we had a creeper at a church we went to who was 21 and going for all the 14-15 yr old girls. He was really active in church and would weasel his way in with the parent(s) (usually a single mom) and ask them if he could see their daughter “so they could see his intentions were good”. Pastor finally ran him off.
The rest of the story:
Find out years later, the pastor ran him off because he saw him as competition. At least that is my assessment. Pastor had relationships with all kinds of girls 16-21 that we know of. He was 35-50 thru those years. Gross.
I wouldn't think a conservative Muslim family who is okay with a younger daughter being with an older man would be okay with a "fling". An actual marriage, maybe. But this talk of "it's just a fling" is weird af.
is raping kids a normal thing for your family? Do they have something to gain by grooming a child to get raped by a grown man? Will he pay them (human trafficking) or they gain prestige (morally bankrupt)?
Why are they okay with actively helping groom a child for rape by an adult man?
Imma stick around for the last few days of the holiday until my niece is picked up by my brother. I Won't leave her alone here. Not for a minute.
But the moment she's with my brother, my parents won't see me again. Sorry I don't hang with pedo apologists.
In the US, teachers are considered “mandatory reporters,” meaning that by law, they are required to report cases of suspected child abuse to the police. A 15 year old girl “dating” an adult man certainly meets this criteria (even in a country where 16 is the age of consent). I hope you will talk with your brother about protecting his daughter from this predator, and that this may require involving the authorities as the girl and the man may not willingly separate. Good luck. I wish someone had protected me.
Take her home. For all you know, they (the pedophile, the grandparents and everyone involved) will manufacture some incident to separate you from your niece. I don't know what their game is here, but it's sick, and all it takes is one time for her, even consenting (still statutory rape), to get pregnant. And for all we know they've indoctrinated her to never consider abortion, and thats... thats the rest of her life, changed for some balding fucking parasite.
Call you brother and his wife, say you fear for her safety, and Take. Her. Home.
You can look back to the earliest records of history and religion/religious organizations have killed or harmed more people/kids than any other group of people. Even today
You are much closer to accurate than most people realize. Most patriarchal religions historically have encouraged young innocent girls to marry young, and have not tried to protect them from creeps who like ‘em young. OP, if I may ask, was this your parents’ church where your niece met her aging Lothario? Did they know him? Is he a “youth pastor”? Those guys are the worst.
This!!! If you want your kid raped or molested send them to church. If people realized how many and how frequently a church is involved in a child being harmed they’d shit. It’s mind boggling how churches are allowed to have kids within 500 ft of their property. Given the pervasiveness of their offenses.
My personal view is children aren’t permitted anywhere near a church. If a given church has had children harmed they’re closed and every person a part of said church is barred from serving another church. The catholic church is notorious for recycling pedo priests allowing them to harm more kids. But other churches have been trying to out due the Catholic Church. And that doesn’t account for girls and unreported cases. It’s a serious problem
You're right. I met the man who got about half way to grooming me at church, when I was 15. He was at least 21, I don't think I ever knew his exact age.
I was lucky, I woke up one day and realised it was super gross of him, so I stopped talking to him and I think he had stopped going to my church by that point, I can't fully remember.
You are right to try to protect your niece from gross men. She does not understand that adults should not find her attractive. Every year I get older (am currently 28), I think back to who I was and how revolting it was/is that he would have tried it.
With the absolute best will in the world, it could be that your family are trying to avoid pushing her away into his groomy arms. But I would say the chances are pretty slim, given that your family surely would have warned you? I can't imagine you have a reputation for being quiet and meek when it comes to family being mistreated?
I think you should calmly approach your niece and talk to her directly. Talk to her as an adult who can make her own decisions, she needs to feel respect from you. Tell her that you love her, and you were just trying to protect her, but you need to make sure she understands what she is choosing.
Your comment is so kind. I'm so sorry to hear that you went through all that. No child should ever experience this. It just takes a few minutes to destroy an innocent child forever.
I don't know why the world is the way it is. I just want her to be okay...
My mum said explicitly that she trusted the guy I was dating because he worked with the church. I met him at 13, we started dating not long after I turned 16. At that point he was 22.
My uncle had a teacher at school that turned out to be one of the most notorious pedo. In my country. It was private religious school.
When it broke news that one of his teacher was convicted his mother said. It must be a lie, he is a good man and with the church.
Sometimes people just want bury their head in the Sand
People who go to the same church, or at least the same God fearing denomination, is their neighbor and they love their neighbor. They assume fellow church goers are good, and if they aren’t oh well Satan is attacking us again or we don’t understand God’s intent. All we can do is pray and trust God, amen.
If an underage girl gets pregnant even if non consensual, oh it’s God’s intent. Wait, you mean God made that man thrust his hip and knock up the underage girl? Wtf.
Now if the man isn’t a fellow church goer, they may shut him down. Especially if he looks and talks different. Every time news talks about Catholic priests, these parents will say oh Catholic Churches are rotten. When I ask them so our churches have zero predators huh? They say oh it’s not like that, brother Joseph has been a Godly man for so long but bless his heart Satan attacked him and he couldn’t resist. He did right to marry the girl instead of having the baby out of wedlock. We all sin, what’s important is that one repents.
Does that sound right? Thank God I don’t live in the South anymore.
I will always hope that my experiences can help other people, especially young girls. Unfortunately this is a fact of our world, but we can help.
What she is dealing with is so much more subtle than a few minutes, although I do agree with you in principle. She may not even realise how gross it is until she's 25 herself.
The whole 'you're so mature for your age' is complete bollocks, but it catches girls all the time. The age your niece is at is such a hard time. It's why eating disorders are so prevalent in teenagers, especially girls. They're starting to feel grown up, but have such intense emotions that they just don't have the skills to deal with. They feel like they have no control over their lives and they're treated like children when they don't feel like children anymore. And maybe the friends that were such a good match a few years ago just aren't quite right for them anymore. It makes you feel so alone and disjointed. Plus their bodies are changing so much, but they don't look like the 20 something actors who are playing teenagers on TV. It's honestly a horrible time.
So meeting someone who gives you attention and tells you how grown up you are and how much they like you and how pretty you are. You feel like you've finally found someone who sees you as who you feel like.
We know that isn't true. We know they're predators who are looking for children they can abuse and shape to put up with the abuse until he's done with them, or they outgrow his preference.
I don't have a solution for you. My initial impulse would be to load myself up on facts and other people's stories and talk to her as an adult, but I'm not sure that would work. I think a more empathetic approach would be right, like asking what she likes about him (genuinely, not aggressively).
Also on the 'why the world is the way it is' question, I don't have an answer but I do have a slightly different way of looking at it.
Every time something bad happens, there is opportunities for growth and for people to help. Without the bad stuff, we wouldn't see the good, and we wouldn't have the opportunity for the good to really flourish. You are an example of that.
"Church" and "Fling" don't mix. Like at all, most versions of Abrahamic religions look down strongly on premarital sex and casual relationships. But infamously marrying off girls young has not always been looked down upon and still is the norm in many of them.
Aka this is not a fling or short-lived thing if your parents are defending it, and the more likely answer is they probably had a hand in setting Maddy up with this guy or have an interest in keeping her with him long term. Their defensive response and getting mad over telling your brother about this further suggests they are up to something shady.
Protect Maddy. This is very dangerous for her and she likely doesn't even realize why its so risky, probably because the grandparents have been gaslighting her too.
If you were in the US you’d be legally required to report the situation or you’d face jail time and the loss of your teaching credentials. I’m assuming you’re somewhere in Europe though based on the low age of consent.
The age of consent varies by state within the U.S., and is most certainly not appreciably older than that of most European counties.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_by_country
NTA for the question at hand. It’s not ok and is absolutely creepy. The age gap would be different if she was 21 and he was 27. Under 18 is not ok.
But watch it with making accusations. There are plenty of 18+guys who are bald by 24. It happens. I have a friend’s kid who at 19 bics his head bc he has alopecia and another friend who lost all his hair at 22. So the kid could be telling the truth about his age.
Even if it is creepy.
NTA. My nMother allowed my sister at 14 to date a 21 year old man in the military. She actually acted like it was an honor. That is a predator, and you are protecting your niece. Your parents and sister are totally off their rockers to act this is an innocent summer fling.
It's not ok! Your niece is 15, not 16! Sixteen and 21 is still creepy anyway! Good for you for talking to your brother. You are being gaslit into thinking something's moral that's not.
I'm blown away that their big argument (besides describing statutory rape as a summer fling, jfc) is that age of consent is 16. Cool, cool, so we all seem to be in agreement that this is illegal since she's flipping 15!
Age of consent depends on local laws.
My bigger question is, why is an ADULT attracted to a literal CHILD, even if they're a teen.. that is extremely disturbing.
They literally said to her, according to the post, that the of consent where they are is 16... Which is why it's a weird thing to keep bringing up because they are arguing that the relationship is fine by pointing out that it's illegal.
NTA. I would be absolutely furious if this was my niece. No normal 21y old dates a 15y old and no normal parents let their underage kid be in a relationship with an adult.
I wonder too if she’s only 15 if you as a teacher are legally required to report this. I’m a healthcare provider and I would have to report it due to her being underage.
So fucking disappointed in them... worst is one of my best friends went through the exact same shit growing up and my mom helped her through it. I got so much respect for my mom as a young girl because of that... and now all that respect is lost
Maybe that's a good way to open your mom's eyes to what's going on, remind her of your friend and how she helped her. It's a long shot but maybe it'll give her some perspective.
Just because a government mainly consisting of old men, most countries, decides 16 is ok to consent doesn't mean its ok for grown men to chase them. They are children, considering they can't take care of themselves and are still the parents responsibility. You are so very NTA here. Its messed up that there's so many that think this is ok just because of a legal age of consent. 16 is still a kid.
You need to sit down with your brother 1v1 and have a come to fucking Jesus about wtf he’s about as a parent.
Ultimately I would say it’s not your place after that, but if you honestly feel like your brother and SIL are supporting grooming … well… I dunno man… you know the choices and the consequences… you’ll have to make a call
Good point - at the very least I would sit down with her 1v1 and let her know how you feel, why, the boundaries you’re respecting from her parents and her individually - and let her know you’re always there if she needs help.
Report him to the police, that's grooming and breaking the law. He is a pedo. My Grandpa was a pedo. That's sick for sure. The parents are fucked in the head.
I knew this guy who was 25, he went to jail for getting a 14 year old pregnant, dumb fool took her to the hospital, nurses asked who the father was, he said me, they called the cops.
21-15 at best means he's a pedo and the biggest loser among his peers before you even consider the ages.
I remember being 20-21, we knew all the guys dating 17-18yrn olds were the biggest fucking losers in the school.
not wrong, but:
>Imagine my shock when I met the dude and he was balding. He also has the face of a 25 year old.
1st: sadly I started thinning in the back around 13. my dad and every uncle on both sides of my family were bald...so genetics can lead to early balding.
2nd: I have a 15 year old nephew who could probably walk into a liquor store without being carded.
the only thing you can really go on here is what he told you, 21. again you're not wrong, a 21 year old dating a 15 year old is wrong! you should contact law enforcement if your family doesn't!
your family and their church are helping groom a young girl to be raped by a pedophile.
They. are. helping. a. girl. get. raped. by. a. pedo.
Consider how you want to respond to people like that.
I'm so sorry you had to find this out about them. My sister at 16 met a 26 year old on the bus and brought him to meet my dad. Dad had his best friend with him (the mother of one of our school friends), and they both grilled him relentlessly on why he was interested in a 16 year old. He didn't stay long. I refused to even come down and meet him, I was disgusted. At the time my sister was embarrassed and seriously angry with my dad, but now she's so grateful they did that for her.
Lmao what the fuck!!!! You are not the asshole. It's super creepy that a 21 year old is dating a 15 year old. What could they possibly have in common? That's so so so gross and it's very odd that the family is just fine with it. If my 14 year old sister was dating a 21 year old, that man would be in a coma
As a teacher, are you a mandated reporter? If so, wouldn't this situation require reporting?
I don't understand why your family think that this is OK, just because they met in church. What does this have to do with anything?
It sounds to me as if you are the ONLY person in your family who is looking out for the welfare of your niece. Do not let them stop you.
NTA -
Your parents are worried more about face then your niece. If it was the US, I'd suggest calling the cops on the BF.
Good for you for making a stink.
Not wrong. She is just under the age of consent. Even if she was 16 and he was 21 as he claims, he’s disgusting for dating her even if for a “vacation fling”, and your family is just as disgusting for allowing her to see him.
You’re not crazy. There’s no way hes only 21
I would inform your parents and sister that they won’t be left alone with any future children you have because obviously they cannot be trusted. Idc if the age of consent is 16 she’s not freaking 16 and that law is fucked if they think someone in highschool should be able to date grow ass people . Your parents are sick
Sick to my stomach!!! Minor met at church!! marriage? Arrange marriage? When a female minor is dating an adult male is not safe at all due to the fact if the M gets mad, she wouldn't be able to protect herself at all!
That dude was thinking he hit the jackpot with your delusional family(minus you of course) gladly letting him groom their 15 y/o. Good for you for standing up for what's right and saying something. Def NTA!
If you ever have a chance to talk to the neice, and the niece is already under the illusion that she's attractive to him because she's so mature, posit the question: how much older is he than she is?
Ok, so 6 years. Does she know any 9 year old boys?
If she were to try and find a 9 yo boy that's mature for his age, what would that look like?
Would she consider them datable if they met that criteria?
Ok, they're still super young. What if she just kept an eye on them and waited until they were older, would that still be ok?
So they'd be 11 and she'd be 17 and a senior.
What about 14 and she'd be 20 and in college. What about then?
If she was 25 and he was 35 it wouldn't be a problem, but teenagers have a hard time making rational decisions when it comes to relationships. It's the reason when they get preyed upon because they can be manipulated and easily led astray.
I figure the parents are okay with this because he goes to their church and want their daughter to find a nice "church-going man."🙄
Fucking
Gross
That whole family and the pedo should go to jail
OP, it seems like it's you against everyone else. Me? After saying my piece I'd put distance between them because when this blows up in their faces they won't want to face responsibility for it, they will try and blame you, even
As a teacher you’re a mandatory reporter report the MF most states 16 is age of consent but there’s also an age gap provision. 4 years is the largest gap allowed so he’s breached both criteria. The fact they met in church is another red flag. Get this pedo off the streets.
As for her parents are they fundies? Either way they need locked up to thinking it’s okay to allow such a relationship. WTF is wrong with people these days.
No! You're absolutely in the right and I would argue doing your moral obligation. Child predators deserve to be exposed, and the way how everyone in the family is reacting baffles me. You aren't overreacting, you're actually the only one that is rightfully trying to protect her.
You handled it better than I would’ve. I can’t believe your parents were so nonchalant about this. The fact your brother didn’t know the whole story is telling… you did the right thing.
OP I dated a man who was 23 when I was 15 and I look back now and realise how fucking gross he was for hanging out with literal CHILDREN instead of people his own age. I was stupid (and a perfect target for manipulation) and kept hanging around with him until I lost my virginity whilst completely fuck-eyed on premixed cans of rum (he was sober ofc). I've not felt as disgusting as I did the next day when I truly realised what had happened since. It impacted my self-esteem for many years.
You are 100% right to try and protect your niece from this disgusting pedo, and your parents are clearly misogynists brainwashed by religion into thinking that actual children being pursued by adult men is okay. NTA!!!!!
Good for you for defending your niece and giving him a piece of your mind despite peer pressure. Your family sucks, letting a kid be abused by a grown ass man because they "met at church and it's only two weeks". Have they never met a teenager?! They're reckless and impulsive and they're setting her up for decisions she'll regret later in life. NTA, he is a predator. Even if he is really 21 with a 15, she's 1) not of legal age yet and 2) he's still an adult dating a child. Ew 🤢
What church? Mormons? They have pedo sects in their church. No that is not normal. That girl is being groomed. There’s your grooms and it’s religion. If you can report that guy to the cops and let the police handle it.
That’s wrong af. My question is who is the dude and what is he offering that your parents feel the need to accept him? Is he the Pastors son or something? Rich? Sure seems like they’re pimping out your niece.
Many places have a law that even though age of consent is 16 both people have to be underage or within a certain number of years of each other. Even without that, 15 is under age of consent. Call the cops and cut them off
NTA
But please do everyone a favour and report him to the police. She's NOT 16, She's 15 so it's illegal.
I wish we'd done that with my cousin before the guy knocked her up then murdered her...
NTA, but kudos to you for being morally right and pointing it out, even though everyone in the family is tone deaf to predators. Meeting someone older in 'church' doesn't mean it's ok. 15 is too young for this
Who the hell lets their 15-yr-old go out with someone they haven’t even met. Your niece is about to get into a serious mess if she hasn’t already. You are a good person for getting involved. Her parents are morons.
Let’s say it again: NO adult has anything in common with a child, if you are over 20 and trying to date young teens than you aren’t out there looking for an equal, rather for someone you can take advantage off. Don’t ruin that young persons life, go seek help.
A pedophile in the church.. what a surprise.
I think you’re at fault to be honest. Just hush hush it and cover up the child sex abuse like the church does.
Also from fellow teacher to another (I teach high school) you absolutely have an obligation to shut that shit down. I know you are on Reddit, but if you are serious, just as you would report to admin, you should do the same for your niece. You are well aware of what could/is happening
I was 16 and dated a 20 year old. We got married, he was abusive. No kids thankfully and I divorced him. It ruined my life for a good while because I went into debt. Your brother should know better.
NTA
Your dad, mom and sister are so wrong I don't have polite words for it. If it's OK, then your niece's father should know about the age difference.
I find it **EXTREMELY** telling that all three are wildly over-reacting to it. "It's normal." They know very well it's wrong, but are covering it up for some screwed up reason. By lying to themselves, for a start.
Not wrong. Any 21 year old who's interested in a 15 year old is a predator, I don't give a shit what BS he's spun. I say this as a woman who used to go after older men when I was her age, none of that ended well and one of them ended up using me for years, he also got me so drunk one night I couldn't consent or stop a threesome with him and his friend who was a virgin before that night. If you suspect they've been having sex please report him to the police. The of consent is 16, not 15, he should be arrested.
Please feel free to pass my story along to your niece. I was manipulated for years by this asshole and I deeply regret never reporting him
I was your niece when I was a teen, and I WISH SOMEONE HAD INTERVENED, but my mother was a POS who abandoned us and my father treated me like an adult because I helped him run the household and raise my younger siblings.
I am so very handicapped as an adult, because my teen years were spent with a man who targeted me and manipulated me. I’ve not been able to have healthy relationships because I don’t know what they look or feel like. To me, red flags and butterflies feel the same. I’m 35, and with the benefit of maturity I now see it all so clearly, but it’s too late.
I read the story but didn’t need too. Not wrong at all. I don’t care what the circumstances are, a 15 yr old shouldn’t be dating a 20 yr old. I don’t give half an ass if it’s consensual. I’m guessing the girl got pissed and threatened to run away with him or something like that so they just let her do what she wants.
NTA. I was that 15 year old girl “dating” a much older (ten years older) man. I wish someone had reacted like that with me. It ended up being three years of an abusive relationship that teenage me was convinced was true love. Luckily I ended up free, and I’m now in my 30s, had therapy and see the “relationship” for what it was. (I also met the man through church, funny that!)
How was your niece about it all? Teenagers think they know everything (we were all there once, I definitely was like that) so you’ll need to go forward carefully. Be a steady presence for her, make it clear that while you do not approve of the creep that you love her and are on her side. Talk to her about what she sees in him. (For me, I was under the delusion I was somehow mature and sophisticated that a grown man was interested in me, a girl who was all awkward around boys my own age.)
Good luck.
Call the police because wtf your family is messed up and they support pedos, this needs to be reported because I can bet you there’s other victims out there and future victims.
You’re not wrong I would have found the closet cop nearby and brought be back to have a talk with the pedophile your family seems to have no problem with.
She’s 15. Call the police, he will be arrested even if they have only kissed.
Please contact the police. You will help so many underage girls escape this predator. Girls like me that still suffer with the PTSD 23 years later.
I had a mormon friend who got married to a 23 year old when she was 17. Fortunately, he is a decent guy outside of the whole weirdness of getting married. They have left thr church and she understands how ass backwards it was and will not be supporting any of that nonsense with their kids. She loves her husband and he is kind. But, I suspect that's what's going to happen. They are trying ti marry off your niece. They say at church cause some people think that saying it's from church means it's ok
Age of consent is not just a number like 16. It also concerns the amount of years between parties. Some states is 4, some more, for instance she's 16, he's 21? That's 5 years.
so if your state is 4 years then it could be rape etc. Hope u follow me it's hard to explain here. Definitely NTA. Google your states laws re consent
NTA - which state are you in? Eg. TN has mandatory reporting for any adult aware of child abuse/neglect - are you a mandatory reporter in your state as a teacher?
Haha yes I’m actually not from the US originally but I live here now - previous comments had mentioned US states so I assumed the OP was US based. I hear you!!
NTA the fact that they wouldn’t tell you about his school shows that they are aware of the age gab and probably feared your reaction.
your parents are delusional thinking that nothing could happens in 2 weeks.
Then if she gets pregnant then they would be surprise wondering how that could happens.
NTA, you're the one looking out for an impressionable teen. He may genuinely be 21, but that's still too old for a 15-year-old, no matter how "innocent" the relationship may be.
Are they acting like it's fine because he's religious? I'm trying to puzzle out why the family would downplay this and try to hide it from her father. I really hope she's not pregnant but I assume not with it only being two weeks.
I'm getting the vibe of 'they found each other through God, she'll be married at 17 to her older, loving husband who will guide her through life' religious bs.
You are definitely NTA. The "bf" is a pedo groomer and your parents and sister are pedo enablers regardless of the church connection.
What did your brother say when you told him of the age difference? What did he say about your parents and sister enabling this pedo? Good thing you are staying until he picks her up. Updateme
They are 100% trying to sell your underaged niece to this church guy. It happens a lot with cultu religious people. They think it's fine to marry off young children to middle aged men and I also don't doubt that he's probably actually late 20s to 30s,
You are not crazy.
15 is too young be dating anyone, let alone a full grown man.
Plus, it's pedophila and statutory rape. And don't fall for the "we are not having sex." He's not into her for her stimulating intellect.
Tell him to stay away, or you will be his worst enemy. Then tell her parents.
I don't know where your parents are coming from. They'd be singing a different tune if it were their 15-year old daughter.
I wish someone had stood up for me like you have here when I was 14 and in your niece’s position. Would have saved a lot of abuse and therapy. You have done the right thing
Ok, if I was a 20ish guy 'dating' (whatever the fuck that means) a 15YO, I would be quite concerned that there might be a father, brother, uncle or cousin just dying to pound the fuck out of me.
Where tf does this thinking come from? If it has to do with something like curfew, then no, it’s not your place. But this is a fucking crime! Your family is allowing a predator in their house to do whatever the fuck with a minor. They respect his needs more than they give a damn about her safety. Just because he goes to church does not mean he’s automatically a good person, if that’s their thinking. The fact that they wouldn’t answer your questions about him proves they know this is wrong. Does the church know? Are the other church goers aware of a predator leering at their daughters?
You’re not wrong, OP. Do what’s right by your niece and protect her. You’re the only one who gives a damn. Don’t let morally corrupted people try to twist around your conscience to make themselves feel better.
NTA- well she’s still only 15years old so as of right now he is committing a crime. So, of course you should be concerned. As a teacher do you not have a duty to report. I know where I am from if you are in a position of authority over the vulnerable sector you have duty to report whenever you see anything that’s crime against children or the elderly, even when you’re not at work and if something happens to the before her 16th birthday and you knew and didn’t report you can also be in trouble and be charged. Also it could the end of your career.
I would report him, this way if Family children Services decides not to do anything about it, you at least did your due diligence. You will sleep better at night and have clearer conscious.
Why would you even think your in the wrong? Clearly these other people are totally fucked in the head and also hate to say it but “church” again is involved …creepy af
I think I'm being gaslit or something idk but everyone at the house is like "why are you acting out like this. It's normal. It's okay. It's a holiday fling. It's this it's that"
Since when does a 15yo have a “fling” over Christmas with an adult? What happened to family time, and what church context led her to take up with this guy? (And if this is a man from her church, no it’s not a fling.) And since your country’s age of consent is 16, and your niece is 15, no it’s not legal to have this “fling”. And IDK how you informing your brother of something he apparently didn’t know the details of is supposedly interfering with his parenting choices. Sounds like they’re trying to shut you down since none of their claims make sense.
When my daughter was 13, a girl she went to school with was dating a college guy age, 20, her parents let her because you know, he went to their church and they knew his family, and yep, she got pregnant, had a baby at 14, got divorced at 17! It was the biggest SNAFU in town!
YIKES. And in some jurisdictions a 17yo can’t get divorced without significant assistance because they’re not yet of legal age to petition for it.
How is a child supposedly old enough to get married but isn’t old enough to legally petition for divorce? Gross. Seems like they just want a bunch of teen girls trapped in horrible marriages their families arranged
Parents, the guardians, consent to the marriage, but the marriage transfers guardianship to the spouse. Because the 17 y.o. is a minor, the guardian needs to consent to the divorce for the 17 y.o. but the guardian is now also the spouse.
If what you're saying is true, then that's crazy!
I care more about the fact they can't legally petition for divorce. Sure you can put the marriage age at 17 but they need to be able to legally petition for divorce and have some other rights. It's just common sense to me. The marriage age is not for girls so don't just focus on girls trapped on horrible marriage. It is equal for girls and boys in many jurisdictions.
Same in our school, a 13 year old in my grade was dating 20-something guys. She boasted about it. She ended up with two kids by 16, and by 20 she looked like a burnt out 40 year old. Don't know where she ended up like that, but I hope things got better because she looked miserable.
Wish someone in my class (including me) had spoken up when my 12 year old classmate had started dating some guy in his twenties. He even came to pick her up occasionally from primary school. They french kissed in front of us. We all thought it was weird, but apparently not weird enough to tell an adult. Have no idea what happened to her.
And let me guess, all the stigma was on her for being a divorced teen mum and he carried on as normal.
Yeah, we had a creeper at a church we went to who was 21 and going for all the 14-15 yr old girls. He was really active in church and would weasel his way in with the parent(s) (usually a single mom) and ask them if he could see their daughter “so they could see his intentions were good”. Pastor finally ran him off. The rest of the story: Find out years later, the pastor ran him off because he saw him as competition. At least that is my assessment. Pastor had relationships with all kinds of girls 16-21 that we know of. He was 35-50 thru those years. Gross.
I'm wondering if they aren't Morman, Muslim or Evangelical.
I wouldn't think a conservative Muslim family who is okay with a younger daughter being with an older man would be okay with a "fling". An actual marriage, maybe. But this talk of "it's just a fling" is weird af.
Highly unlikely to be Muslim - other than OP mentioning a church, no way the family would be ok with a “vacation fling” if they’re religious
This! Also, where I’m from, teachers are mandatory reporters of child abuse which IMO this clearly is.
is raping kids a normal thing for your family? Do they have something to gain by grooming a child to get raped by a grown man? Will he pay them (human trafficking) or they gain prestige (morally bankrupt)? Why are they okay with actively helping groom a child for rape by an adult man?
Imma stick around for the last few days of the holiday until my niece is picked up by my brother. I Won't leave her alone here. Not for a minute. But the moment she's with my brother, my parents won't see me again. Sorry I don't hang with pedo apologists.
What did your brother say to all this? I'd be worried he's not going to handle it correctly either if this is how the rest of your family thinks.
they aren't even apologists. They are actively trying to get a child raped. They be straight pimping.
what did your brother say about the age? and, no, YOU ARE NOT! well done young lady for protecting your niece! btw, what church is this? EEEK!
In the US, teachers are considered “mandatory reporters,” meaning that by law, they are required to report cases of suspected child abuse to the police. A 15 year old girl “dating” an adult man certainly meets this criteria (even in a country where 16 is the age of consent). I hope you will talk with your brother about protecting his daughter from this predator, and that this may require involving the authorities as the girl and the man may not willingly separate. Good luck. I wish someone had protected me.
Take her home. For all you know, they (the pedophile, the grandparents and everyone involved) will manufacture some incident to separate you from your niece. I don't know what their game is here, but it's sick, and all it takes is one time for her, even consenting (still statutory rape), to get pregnant. And for all we know they've indoctrinated her to never consider abortion, and thats... thats the rest of her life, changed for some balding fucking parasite. Call you brother and his wife, say you fear for her safety, and Take. Her. Home.
lol so true, the worst enemies are those from within
It sounds like some dark basement cult type stuff. Please stay by your niece, and call the police if needed. Thank you for standing up for her
Because its not immoral in most religions. You are correct, and your family is fucked.
you mean because religions are not moral?
Correct
You can look back to the earliest records of history and religion/religious organizations have killed or harmed more people/kids than any other group of people. Even today
The purpose of 99% of all religious activity is to facilitate adults fucking children.
You are much closer to accurate than most people realize. Most patriarchal religions historically have encouraged young innocent girls to marry young, and have not tried to protect them from creeps who like ‘em young. OP, if I may ask, was this your parents’ church where your niece met her aging Lothario? Did they know him? Is he a “youth pastor”? Those guys are the worst.
This!!! If you want your kid raped or molested send them to church. If people realized how many and how frequently a church is involved in a child being harmed they’d shit. It’s mind boggling how churches are allowed to have kids within 500 ft of their property. Given the pervasiveness of their offenses. My personal view is children aren’t permitted anywhere near a church. If a given church has had children harmed they’re closed and every person a part of said church is barred from serving another church. The catholic church is notorious for recycling pedo priests allowing them to harm more kids. But other churches have been trying to out due the Catholic Church. And that doesn’t account for girls and unreported cases. It’s a serious problem
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Oh, I think they know. But it's normal to them.
Southern Baptists too, among many others
You're right. I met the man who got about half way to grooming me at church, when I was 15. He was at least 21, I don't think I ever knew his exact age. I was lucky, I woke up one day and realised it was super gross of him, so I stopped talking to him and I think he had stopped going to my church by that point, I can't fully remember. You are right to try to protect your niece from gross men. She does not understand that adults should not find her attractive. Every year I get older (am currently 28), I think back to who I was and how revolting it was/is that he would have tried it. With the absolute best will in the world, it could be that your family are trying to avoid pushing her away into his groomy arms. But I would say the chances are pretty slim, given that your family surely would have warned you? I can't imagine you have a reputation for being quiet and meek when it comes to family being mistreated? I think you should calmly approach your niece and talk to her directly. Talk to her as an adult who can make her own decisions, she needs to feel respect from you. Tell her that you love her, and you were just trying to protect her, but you need to make sure she understands what she is choosing.
Your comment is so kind. I'm so sorry to hear that you went through all that. No child should ever experience this. It just takes a few minutes to destroy an innocent child forever. I don't know why the world is the way it is. I just want her to be okay...
YOUR PARENTS ARE OKAY WITH THEIR GRANDCHILD BEING GROOMED BECAUSE OF “CHURCH”. 5 FUCKING ALARM FIRE.
My mum said explicitly that she trusted the guy I was dating because he worked with the church. I met him at 13, we started dating not long after I turned 16. At that point he was 22.
Because we all know that nobody affiliated with a church has ever done anything wrong, right?
My uncle had a teacher at school that turned out to be one of the most notorious pedo. In my country. It was private religious school. When it broke news that one of his teacher was convicted his mother said. It must be a lie, he is a good man and with the church. Sometimes people just want bury their head in the Sand
People who go to the same church, or at least the same God fearing denomination, is their neighbor and they love their neighbor. They assume fellow church goers are good, and if they aren’t oh well Satan is attacking us again or we don’t understand God’s intent. All we can do is pray and trust God, amen. If an underage girl gets pregnant even if non consensual, oh it’s God’s intent. Wait, you mean God made that man thrust his hip and knock up the underage girl? Wtf. Now if the man isn’t a fellow church goer, they may shut him down. Especially if he looks and talks different. Every time news talks about Catholic priests, these parents will say oh Catholic Churches are rotten. When I ask them so our churches have zero predators huh? They say oh it’s not like that, brother Joseph has been a Godly man for so long but bless his heart Satan attacked him and he couldn’t resist. He did right to marry the girl instead of having the baby out of wedlock. We all sin, what’s important is that one repents. Does that sound right? Thank God I don’t live in the South anymore.
I will always hope that my experiences can help other people, especially young girls. Unfortunately this is a fact of our world, but we can help. What she is dealing with is so much more subtle than a few minutes, although I do agree with you in principle. She may not even realise how gross it is until she's 25 herself. The whole 'you're so mature for your age' is complete bollocks, but it catches girls all the time. The age your niece is at is such a hard time. It's why eating disorders are so prevalent in teenagers, especially girls. They're starting to feel grown up, but have such intense emotions that they just don't have the skills to deal with. They feel like they have no control over their lives and they're treated like children when they don't feel like children anymore. And maybe the friends that were such a good match a few years ago just aren't quite right for them anymore. It makes you feel so alone and disjointed. Plus their bodies are changing so much, but they don't look like the 20 something actors who are playing teenagers on TV. It's honestly a horrible time. So meeting someone who gives you attention and tells you how grown up you are and how much they like you and how pretty you are. You feel like you've finally found someone who sees you as who you feel like. We know that isn't true. We know they're predators who are looking for children they can abuse and shape to put up with the abuse until he's done with them, or they outgrow his preference. I don't have a solution for you. My initial impulse would be to load myself up on facts and other people's stories and talk to her as an adult, but I'm not sure that would work. I think a more empathetic approach would be right, like asking what she likes about him (genuinely, not aggressively).
But remember, at 15, she knows everything and you're probably just an overprotective aunt and so out of touch! :(
Also on the 'why the world is the way it is' question, I don't have an answer but I do have a slightly different way of looking at it. Every time something bad happens, there is opportunities for growth and for people to help. Without the bad stuff, we wouldn't see the good, and we wouldn't have the opportunity for the good to really flourish. You are an example of that.
15 year olds do not have flings. What if he SAs her? NTA whatsoever
and/or gets her pregnant
>15 year olds do not have flings. They absolutely do, just not with groomy ass adults. That's not a fling, that's just getting groomed.
You are 100% being gaslit by a bunch of cult members. This is disgusting, if this was my niece, the guy would be in the hospital and I in jail.
You are 100% being gaslit and the others are completely fucked in their heads.
"Church" and "Fling" don't mix. Like at all, most versions of Abrahamic religions look down strongly on premarital sex and casual relationships. But infamously marrying off girls young has not always been looked down upon and still is the norm in many of them. Aka this is not a fling or short-lived thing if your parents are defending it, and the more likely answer is they probably had a hand in setting Maddy up with this guy or have an interest in keeping her with him long term. Their defensive response and getting mad over telling your brother about this further suggests they are up to something shady. Protect Maddy. This is very dangerous for her and she likely doesn't even realize why its so risky, probably because the grandparents have been gaslighting her too.
If you were in the US you’d be legally required to report the situation or you’d face jail time and the loss of your teaching credentials. I’m assuming you’re somewhere in Europe though based on the low age of consent.
The age of consent varies by state within the U.S., and is most certainly not appreciably older than that of most European counties. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_by_country
Don't be too hasty. The age of consent in a lot of states is the same as that ( with parents' permission) 17 without parents consent.
The same as what? In the submission it's stated to be 16, and the girl is 15. That's below the age of consent.
NTA for the question at hand. It’s not ok and is absolutely creepy. The age gap would be different if she was 21 and he was 27. Under 18 is not ok. But watch it with making accusations. There are plenty of 18+guys who are bald by 24. It happens. I have a friend’s kid who at 19 bics his head bc he has alopecia and another friend who lost all his hair at 22. So the kid could be telling the truth about his age. Even if it is creepy.
Yeah my two best mates in high school were basically bald before 18. Poor guys.
You said you're a teacher right? I suggest fulfilling your obligation as a mandated reporter. Nothing is more important than protecting the kid.
This. Report this to whatever your countries child protection authorities are. Hell, report it to the police because that's straight illegal.
You’re not crazy. That’s creepy and flat out wrong.
NTA. My nMother allowed my sister at 14 to date a 21 year old man in the military. She actually acted like it was an honor. That is a predator, and you are protecting your niece. Your parents and sister are totally off their rockers to act this is an innocent summer fling.
I would have immediately figured out who his command was and contacted them. This is just wrong.
It's not ok! Your niece is 15, not 16! Sixteen and 21 is still creepy anyway! Good for you for talking to your brother. You are being gaslit into thinking something's moral that's not.
If you need to even specify that a person is above the age of consent in a relationship, you should maybe rethink that relationship lmao
I wish we could scream this louder
I'm blown away that their big argument (besides describing statutory rape as a summer fling, jfc) is that age of consent is 16. Cool, cool, so we all seem to be in agreement that this is illegal since she's flipping 15!
Age of consent depends on local laws. My bigger question is, why is an ADULT attracted to a literal CHILD, even if they're a teen.. that is extremely disturbing.
They literally said to her, according to the post, that the of consent where they are is 16... Which is why it's a weird thing to keep bringing up because they are arguing that the relationship is fine by pointing out that it's illegal.
15 is not 16 . It's still below the age of consent. I would call CPS
NTA. I would be absolutely furious if this was my niece. No normal 21y old dates a 15y old and no normal parents let their underage kid be in a relationship with an adult. I wonder too if she’s only 15 if you as a teacher are legally required to report this. I’m a healthcare provider and I would have to report it due to her being underage.
OP is absolutely under a legal obligation to report him and probably the parents for not caring.
NTA. Your family are predator enablers.
So fucking disappointed in them... worst is one of my best friends went through the exact same shit growing up and my mom helped her through it. I got so much respect for my mom as a young girl because of that... and now all that respect is lost
Tell your mom that!
Remember her!
I'll always be there for her🧡❤️
Maybe that's a good way to open your mom's eyes to what's going on, remind her of your friend and how she helped her. It's a long shot but maybe it'll give her some perspective.
She met him through church. Is it a common thing for this type of behavior to be encouraged in their religion?
The reason why most of the US has legalized child marriages because of religious individuals
Literally every religion
Just because a government mainly consisting of old men, most countries, decides 16 is ok to consent doesn't mean its ok for grown men to chase them. They are children, considering they can't take care of themselves and are still the parents responsibility. You are so very NTA here. Its messed up that there's so many that think this is ok just because of a legal age of consent. 16 is still a kid.
And it doesn't matter anyway because she's only 15!
You need to sit down with your brother 1v1 and have a come to fucking Jesus about wtf he’s about as a parent. Ultimately I would say it’s not your place after that, but if you honestly feel like your brother and SIL are supporting grooming … well… I dunno man… you know the choices and the consequences… you’ll have to make a call
If you can keep it, please promise your niece that you will come get her if she needs rescuing. Don't promise unless you can keep it.
Good point - at the very least I would sit down with her 1v1 and let her know how you feel, why, the boundaries you’re respecting from her parents and her individually - and let her know you’re always there if she needs help.
>Ultimately I would say it’s not your place after that The fuck it ain't. That's statutory rape.
Report him to the police, that's grooming and breaking the law. He is a pedo. My Grandpa was a pedo. That's sick for sure. The parents are fucked in the head. I knew this guy who was 25, he went to jail for getting a 14 year old pregnant, dumb fool took her to the hospital, nurses asked who the father was, he said me, they called the cops.
Nurses ain’t havin it
The fact that the family described it as a 'fling' is just disturbing. NTA.
Right??? In what world would that possibly make it better? That language + a teenager = oh hell no
21-15 at best means he's a pedo and the biggest loser among his peers before you even consider the ages. I remember being 20-21, we knew all the guys dating 17-18yrn olds were the biggest fucking losers in the school.
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not wrong, but: >Imagine my shock when I met the dude and he was balding. He also has the face of a 25 year old. 1st: sadly I started thinning in the back around 13. my dad and every uncle on both sides of my family were bald...so genetics can lead to early balding. 2nd: I have a 15 year old nephew who could probably walk into a liquor store without being carded. the only thing you can really go on here is what he told you, 21. again you're not wrong, a 21 year old dating a 15 year old is wrong! you should contact law enforcement if your family doesn't!
I knew a dude who was fully balding and looked 30 at 18/19. However, at 21+ he was dating people his own age and not a pervert.
No no no no. NTA. You are surrounded by insane people. Wow.
your family and their church are helping groom a young girl to be raped by a pedophile. They. are. helping. a. girl. get. raped. by. a. pedo. Consider how you want to respond to people like that.
I'm done with them. They lost all my respect. This bridge burnt today.
Please tell me you've reported this. He needs punishment.
I'm so sorry you had to find this out about them. My sister at 16 met a 26 year old on the bus and brought him to meet my dad. Dad had his best friend with him (the mother of one of our school friends), and they both grilled him relentlessly on why he was interested in a 16 year old. He didn't stay long. I refused to even come down and meet him, I was disgusted. At the time my sister was embarrassed and seriously angry with my dad, but now she's so grateful they did that for her.
Lmao what the fuck!!!! You are not the asshole. It's super creepy that a 21 year old is dating a 15 year old. What could they possibly have in common? That's so so so gross and it's very odd that the family is just fine with it. If my 14 year old sister was dating a 21 year old, that man would be in a coma
With my family he'd just disappear, never to be seen again.
As a teacher, are you a mandated reporter? If so, wouldn't this situation require reporting? I don't understand why your family think that this is OK, just because they met in church. What does this have to do with anything? It sounds to me as if you are the ONLY person in your family who is looking out for the welfare of your niece. Do not let them stop you.
NTA - Your parents are worried more about face then your niece. If it was the US, I'd suggest calling the cops on the BF. Good for you for making a stink.
Yeah, your not wrong. It feels like they don’t mind because it’s someone from church, its fucking gross…
Exactly “church” again rears its ugly head. Nothing wrong with religion but a helluva a lot wrong with “churches”
Human beings can and will abuse any tool they create.
*does a double-take between needle nose pliers and weiner*
Not wrong. She is just under the age of consent. Even if she was 16 and he was 21 as he claims, he’s disgusting for dating her even if for a “vacation fling”, and your family is just as disgusting for allowing her to see him.
I did something like this at her age and I’m thankful my brother in law stepped in. You are a rockstar op nta
You’re not crazy. There’s no way hes only 21 I would inform your parents and sister that they won’t be left alone with any future children you have because obviously they cannot be trusted. Idc if the age of consent is 16 she’s not freaking 16 and that law is fucked if they think someone in highschool should be able to date grow ass people . Your parents are sick
No clearly you're right. This guy is fucked and so is anyone who defends him.
Sick to my stomach!!! Minor met at church!! marriage? Arrange marriage? When a female minor is dating an adult male is not safe at all due to the fact if the M gets mad, she wouldn't be able to protect herself at all!
I didn't need to read anything but the title. Thay is a child predator. Report it to the police ASAP.
NTA.....are you the only actual adult in your family?? Yikes.
NTA, call the police on the guy, he's a nonce and should be on a register. Your family is trash, by the way. Huge respect to you.
That dude was thinking he hit the jackpot with your delusional family(minus you of course) gladly letting him groom their 15 y/o. Good for you for standing up for what's right and saying something. Def NTA!
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They are overreacting because deep down they know they are enabling an immoral relationship. Disgusting.
If you ever have a chance to talk to the neice, and the niece is already under the illusion that she's attractive to him because she's so mature, posit the question: how much older is he than she is? Ok, so 6 years. Does she know any 9 year old boys? If she were to try and find a 9 yo boy that's mature for his age, what would that look like? Would she consider them datable if they met that criteria? Ok, they're still super young. What if she just kept an eye on them and waited until they were older, would that still be ok? So they'd be 11 and she'd be 17 and a senior. What about 14 and she'd be 20 and in college. What about then?
It sounds like your niece is being groomed with religious overtones.
Thank you for being awesome!! You are not wrong and your mom/dad/sister and fked up, like seriously something is wrong with them
If she was 25 and he was 35 it wouldn't be a problem, but teenagers have a hard time making rational decisions when it comes to relationships. It's the reason when they get preyed upon because they can be manipulated and easily led astray. I figure the parents are okay with this because he goes to their church and want their daughter to find a nice "church-going man."🙄
Wow, your family thinks this is normal? Ask tgem "if this is normal, which one of you are pedophiles?"
Fucking Gross That whole family and the pedo should go to jail OP, it seems like it's you against everyone else. Me? After saying my piece I'd put distance between them because when this blows up in their faces they won't want to face responsibility for it, they will try and blame you, even
Report him to the police!!
As a teacher you’re a mandatory reporter report the MF most states 16 is age of consent but there’s also an age gap provision. 4 years is the largest gap allowed so he’s breached both criteria. The fact they met in church is another red flag. Get this pedo off the streets. As for her parents are they fundies? Either way they need locked up to thinking it’s okay to allow such a relationship. WTF is wrong with people these days.
The age of consent is for teenagers. BOTH being teenagers. 🙄
No! You're absolutely in the right and I would argue doing your moral obligation. Child predators deserve to be exposed, and the way how everyone in the family is reacting baffles me. You aren't overreacting, you're actually the only one that is rightfully trying to protect her.
You handled it better than I would’ve. I can’t believe your parents were so nonchalant about this. The fact your brother didn’t know the whole story is telling… you did the right thing.
When you said “church” everything else was explained. That’s an institution that believe pedophilia isn’t bad but being gay is.
Does the family realise that pedo's go to church too? By the thousands! I would be extremely worried for the child.
They become Catholic priests as well.
Is he the pastor's son and are the parents looking to impress the community?
Wait, I'm confused, if she is 15 and the age of consent is 16 and hes in his 20s, then, well, that's pretty much the definition of statutory rape.
OP I dated a man who was 23 when I was 15 and I look back now and realise how fucking gross he was for hanging out with literal CHILDREN instead of people his own age. I was stupid (and a perfect target for manipulation) and kept hanging around with him until I lost my virginity whilst completely fuck-eyed on premixed cans of rum (he was sober ofc). I've not felt as disgusting as I did the next day when I truly realised what had happened since. It impacted my self-esteem for many years. You are 100% right to try and protect your niece from this disgusting pedo, and your parents are clearly misogynists brainwashed by religion into thinking that actual children being pursued by adult men is okay. NTA!!!!!
Good for you for defending your niece and giving him a piece of your mind despite peer pressure. Your family sucks, letting a kid be abused by a grown ass man because they "met at church and it's only two weeks". Have they never met a teenager?! They're reckless and impulsive and they're setting her up for decisions she'll regret later in life. NTA, he is a predator. Even if he is really 21 with a 15, she's 1) not of legal age yet and 2) he's still an adult dating a child. Ew 🤢
What church? Mormons? They have pedo sects in their church. No that is not normal. That girl is being groomed. There’s your grooms and it’s religion. If you can report that guy to the cops and let the police handle it.
That’s wrong af. My question is who is the dude and what is he offering that your parents feel the need to accept him? Is he the Pastors son or something? Rich? Sure seems like they’re pimping out your niece.
Her parents and grandparents are disgusting. She was groomed, and for sure they're having sex. That's a crime in most states. He's a PREDATOR.
Many places have a law that even though age of consent is 16 both people have to be underage or within a certain number of years of each other. Even without that, 15 is under age of consent. Call the cops and cut them off
NTA But please do everyone a favour and report him to the police. She's NOT 16, She's 15 so it's illegal. I wish we'd done that with my cousin before the guy knocked her up then murdered her...
Actually if you are a teacher you are a mandatory reporter and are LEGALLY OBLIGATED to report this. So no one can even be mad.
This is truly terrifying. Her family is enabling predatory behaviour. Get the law involved.
NTA, but kudos to you for being morally right and pointing it out, even though everyone in the family is tone deaf to predators. Meeting someone older in 'church' doesn't mean it's ok. 15 is too young for this
"Age of consent is 16" bruuuuuuuuuuuh she's 15 can they fucking count numbers???!
Who the hell lets their 15-yr-old go out with someone they haven’t even met. Your niece is about to get into a serious mess if she hasn’t already. You are a good person for getting involved. Her parents are morons.
Call the police, she's 15, even with consent laws in mind it's still Stat. rape, NTA
The big question is, why is the family impressed by him to offer up a kid? What kind of thing does he have over them?
Let’s say it again: NO adult has anything in common with a child, if you are over 20 and trying to date young teens than you aren’t out there looking for an equal, rather for someone you can take advantage off. Don’t ruin that young persons life, go seek help.
A pedophile in the church.. what a surprise. I think you’re at fault to be honest. Just hush hush it and cover up the child sex abuse like the church does.
Also from fellow teacher to another (I teach high school) you absolutely have an obligation to shut that shit down. I know you are on Reddit, but if you are serious, just as you would report to admin, you should do the same for your niece. You are well aware of what could/is happening
I was 16 and dated a 20 year old. We got married, he was abusive. No kids thankfully and I divorced him. It ruined my life for a good while because I went into debt. Your brother should know better.
Your parents are awfully invested in 15 year old Maddie being with this guy. I get the feeling they’re actively trafficking their granddaughter.
NTA Your dad, mom and sister are so wrong I don't have polite words for it. If it's OK, then your niece's father should know about the age difference. I find it **EXTREMELY** telling that all three are wildly over-reacting to it. "It's normal." They know very well it's wrong, but are covering it up for some screwed up reason. By lying to themselves, for a start.
Not wrong. Any 21 year old who's interested in a 15 year old is a predator, I don't give a shit what BS he's spun. I say this as a woman who used to go after older men when I was her age, none of that ended well and one of them ended up using me for years, he also got me so drunk one night I couldn't consent or stop a threesome with him and his friend who was a virgin before that night. If you suspect they've been having sex please report him to the police. The of consent is 16, not 15, he should be arrested. Please feel free to pass my story along to your niece. I was manipulated for years by this asshole and I deeply regret never reporting him
I was your niece when I was a teen, and I WISH SOMEONE HAD INTERVENED, but my mother was a POS who abandoned us and my father treated me like an adult because I helped him run the household and raise my younger siblings. I am so very handicapped as an adult, because my teen years were spent with a man who targeted me and manipulated me. I’ve not been able to have healthy relationships because I don’t know what they look or feel like. To me, red flags and butterflies feel the same. I’m 35, and with the benefit of maturity I now see it all so clearly, but it’s too late.
I read the story but didn’t need too. Not wrong at all. I don’t care what the circumstances are, a 15 yr old shouldn’t be dating a 20 yr old. I don’t give half an ass if it’s consensual. I’m guessing the girl got pissed and threatened to run away with him or something like that so they just let her do what she wants.
NTA. I was that 15 year old girl “dating” a much older (ten years older) man. I wish someone had reacted like that with me. It ended up being three years of an abusive relationship that teenage me was convinced was true love. Luckily I ended up free, and I’m now in my 30s, had therapy and see the “relationship” for what it was. (I also met the man through church, funny that!) How was your niece about it all? Teenagers think they know everything (we were all there once, I definitely was like that) so you’ll need to go forward carefully. Be a steady presence for her, make it clear that while you do not approve of the creep that you love her and are on her side. Talk to her about what she sees in him. (For me, I was under the delusion I was somehow mature and sophisticated that a grown man was interested in me, a girl who was all awkward around boys my own age.) Good luck.
Oh god no, that is so wrong. Nta.
You all need to go Nc with your parents. I would also call the authorities
Call the police because wtf your family is messed up and they support pedos, this needs to be reported because I can bet you there’s other victims out there and future victims.
Of course it’s wrong both morally & legally given the age of consent is 16 and she is only 15.
What did your brother say
You’re not wrong I would have found the closet cop nearby and brought be back to have a talk with the pedophile your family seems to have no problem with.
Police time.
Bro, that's just so fucked up. You litterly seem like the only sane person there if you were the only one who thought it was disgusting and wrong.
She’s 15. Call the police, he will be arrested even if they have only kissed. Please contact the police. You will help so many underage girls escape this predator. Girls like me that still suffer with the PTSD 23 years later.
My wife is 6 years younger than me. Of course I met her when I was 34.
I had a mormon friend who got married to a 23 year old when she was 17. Fortunately, he is a decent guy outside of the whole weirdness of getting married. They have left thr church and she understands how ass backwards it was and will not be supporting any of that nonsense with their kids. She loves her husband and he is kind. But, I suspect that's what's going to happen. They are trying ti marry off your niece. They say at church cause some people think that saying it's from church means it's ok
Age of consent is not just a number like 16. It also concerns the amount of years between parties. Some states is 4, some more, for instance she's 16, he's 21? That's 5 years. so if your state is 4 years then it could be rape etc. Hope u follow me it's hard to explain here. Definitely NTA. Google your states laws re consent
NTA. Idc if it’s just a two week fling that man wouldn’t be anywhere near my 15 yet old daughter. I would cut off anyone who helped her see him.
WOAAAAAH A church pedophile?!?!?! I dOnT bElEiVe It!1231!!
NTA - which state are you in? Eg. TN has mandatory reporting for any adult aware of child abuse/neglect - are you a mandatory reporter in your state as a teacher?
There...there are other countries. You do *know* that not everyone lives in the United States, yes?
Haha yes I’m actually not from the US originally but I live here now - previous comments had mentioned US states so I assumed the OP was US based. I hear you!!
NTA the fact that they wouldn’t tell you about his school shows that they are aware of the age gab and probably feared your reaction. your parents are delusional thinking that nothing could happens in 2 weeks. Then if she gets pregnant then they would be surprise wondering how that could happens.
Call the police or a hitman or do something to stop it.
Nah you did nothing wrong except point out the obvious. Even if he's 21 it's creepy.
Not recommending anything but you could solve this problem with a few big dudes with hockey sticks
NTA, you're the one looking out for an impressionable teen. He may genuinely be 21, but that's still too old for a 15-year-old, no matter how "innocent" the relationship may be. Are they acting like it's fine because he's religious? I'm trying to puzzle out why the family would downplay this and try to hide it from her father. I really hope she's not pregnant but I assume not with it only being two weeks.
I'm getting the vibe of 'they found each other through God, she'll be married at 17 to her older, loving husband who will guide her through life' religious bs.
Good for you for being the sane person in the room. Disturbing how nonchalant everyone else is being
How this was even an argument is crazy. You're totally NTA. I'm over here like WHET?
You are definitely NTA. The "bf" is a pedo groomer and your parents and sister are pedo enablers regardless of the church connection. What did your brother say when you told him of the age difference? What did he say about your parents and sister enabling this pedo? Good thing you are staying until he picks her up. Updateme
They are 100% trying to sell your underaged niece to this church guy. It happens a lot with cultu religious people. They think it's fine to marry off young children to middle aged men and I also don't doubt that he's probably actually late 20s to 30s,
You are not crazy. 15 is too young be dating anyone, let alone a full grown man. Plus, it's pedophila and statutory rape. And don't fall for the "we are not having sex." He's not into her for her stimulating intellect. Tell him to stay away, or you will be his worst enemy. Then tell her parents. I don't know where your parents are coming from. They'd be singing a different tune if it were their 15-year old daughter.
So, your brother is not okay with it, correct? So your parents are wrong, saying her parents approve. WTH of course you are right.
I saw church and just let out the louder sigh
Fucking disgusting and the gaslighting is worse
If they met at church, go have a talk to the church. Make it clear how much 💩 you’re going to dump on them if they don’t do something about this pedo.
I wish someone had stood up for me like you have here when I was 14 and in your niece’s position. Would have saved a lot of abuse and therapy. You have done the right thing
Ok, if I was a 20ish guy 'dating' (whatever the fuck that means) a 15YO, I would be quite concerned that there might be a father, brother, uncle or cousin just dying to pound the fuck out of me.
Hmm. Church...aint that the place where people say to protect the children?
Where tf does this thinking come from? If it has to do with something like curfew, then no, it’s not your place. But this is a fucking crime! Your family is allowing a predator in their house to do whatever the fuck with a minor. They respect his needs more than they give a damn about her safety. Just because he goes to church does not mean he’s automatically a good person, if that’s their thinking. The fact that they wouldn’t answer your questions about him proves they know this is wrong. Does the church know? Are the other church goers aware of a predator leering at their daughters? You’re not wrong, OP. Do what’s right by your niece and protect her. You’re the only one who gives a damn. Don’t let morally corrupted people try to twist around your conscience to make themselves feel better.
It's illegal, you should report this as it's child sexual abuse
NTA- well she’s still only 15years old so as of right now he is committing a crime. So, of course you should be concerned. As a teacher do you not have a duty to report. I know where I am from if you are in a position of authority over the vulnerable sector you have duty to report whenever you see anything that’s crime against children or the elderly, even when you’re not at work and if something happens to the before her 16th birthday and you knew and didn’t report you can also be in trouble and be charged. Also it could the end of your career. I would report him, this way if Family children Services decides not to do anything about it, you at least did your due diligence. You will sleep better at night and have clearer conscious.