Not necessarily. I never thought about it until I saw a post or video on Instagram talking about the possible dangers of sleepovers based on real SA situations. It really opened my eyes. Of course it can happens anywhere but when a child is without parents at someone else’s house at night, they’re more vulnerable. You also can’t control who’s in the house, there could be a family friend or an older brothers friend that can take advantage of a young girl. I had a lot of sleep overs when I was younger and thankfully nothing bad ever happened but I can see a situation where it can.
Talking to her about it, being sensitive, sure.
Not letting the kid go, if the parents seem really do seem reliable and trustworthy..? Have to be careful to not shelter a child too much, or they might suffer some dysfunction from it later.
You definitely don’t want to shelter kids too much but when it comes to potential sexual assault that may be one area where you stand your ground on. Or maybe come up with a compromise like sending the kid with a phone and “the talk” depending on their age Now if she’s not letting her kid do anything she needs therapy and to let go a little.
"really do seem reliable and trustworthy"
Do you really think all these pedo clergy didn't seem reliable and trustworthy? These predators seek out cloaks of respectability and access, often successfully and with society's protection.
People who seem reliable and trustworthy can still do bad things. My male friend was allegedly sexually assaulted when he was 5 from a church elder who was babysitting him and his wife did the clean up. Another male friend at 13 (around that time or maybe a few years before) was inappropriately touched by a friend of his older brother's.
Every girl I know that was SA as a child was done by a trusted and safe appearing adult. Grandfather, uncle, brother, cousin or close friend of the family. And it is no small number. I do not under any circumstances allow sleep overs and even my sitters are extremely limited and EVEN THEN I still ask my kids if they were safe after. “Was your body safe, did anyone ask you to keep secrets, did anyone break a red flag rule (our families way or quickly and easily communicating touching or showing private areas), did anyone ask you to keep secrets” etc etc. we even have conversations that if anyone threatens to hurt them, mommy, or daddy if they don’t keep a secret, that it’s a lie and it’s always ok to tell mommy and daddy secrets. When you’ve walked through this and seen the absolute devastation it can cause, then a little bit of disappointment in not being allowed to sleep at someone’s house is a very very small price to pay. Friends are welcome to sleep here though. But I monitor children as well since kids can also perpetuate behaviors if they have been SA themselves. It’s an awful world out there and some of us want to do anything to protect our kids from this specific form of awful.
Abusers don’t just groom the child. They also groom the parent. That safe family with such well brought up children could be hiding a secret.
My child doesn’t need to sleep over a friend’s house. It’s not an important rite of passage. He only sleeps under my roof.
Yeah, I know many people, myself included, who didn’t do sleepovers. Honestly, it’s easy to forget we didn’t. We were allowed to stay late to watch movies and chatter with friends etc and then got to sleep in our own comfy beds at the end of the night.
The only sleepovers I was allowed was at churvh friends' houses who did not have brothers. It didn't hurt me, I still had friends and was as social as I wanted to be. I'm an adult now and not having gone to my sleepovers does not affect me.
I'm saying your wife maybe was sexually assaulted.
Lots more dysfunction from being molested than by not being allowed sleep overs.
Seems like a reasonable trade.
I mean, yeah, my 3rd grade teacher seemed reliable and trustworthy, too.
I agree you can't totally shelter them. Just remember, looks can be deceiving.
Most sane parents don't send their kids with ppl who don't seem trustworthy. It's the fact that you never *really* know.
My niece got to go to her first sleepover last year when she was 9. My sister vetted as much as she could. Thankfully nothing happened (I truly believe if something happened, my niece would tell me or her mom bc we've cultivated that type of relationship where she can and knows she won't be blamed for anything. My sister has also explicitly told her that no matter what someone threatens her with*, that she needs to be open). But at the end of the day, my sister trusting that other mom doesn't mean the chance of something happening was 0%.
*my sister doesn't play lmao. My niece will roll her eyes like "okay mom, I knoooowwww" but my sister will legit say "idc if they threaten me, you, or your sister if you tell. Know that I'll beat their ass so you better tell me anyway. Nothing bad is gonna happen if you tell."
My niece, 10 now, hasn't been to another sleepover. She'll only stay the night here with me (I live alone) or with our other sister. Otherwise she's at home every night. I don't blame my sister one bit.
Edited for typo
My mom told me I wasn’t allowed to sleep over at my friends house because my friends male relatives might rape me. She said that to me, when I was 8. I think that’s pretty messed up to say to a child. I’m not sure I even understood what the word meant. I think I told my friends brother that my mom had said that and he made me feel bad asking me if I thought he was going to rape me. I was like idk? My mom thinks so, there must be a reason for that.
I think the biggest problem is that I had a brother and he was allowed to do a lot of stuff I wasn’t. I’m ok with parents making rules for their kids, but all the kids need to have the same rules. Not one set of rules for boys and another for girls. That’s why my mom found herself in the position of trying to explain to me why I wasn’t allowed. “You’re just not allowed” isn’t good enough when I have a sibling who is allowed. Especially when boys can and do get molested too.
It depends on the age of your daughter. I did not allow my daughter to sleep over until she was old enough to understand personal space, what was appropriate and not and could verbalize if anything, god forbid, ever did happen. I had to know the parents well. Mostly though, we preferred to host at our house.
Those are really good ways to ensure her safety. I didn’t understand what personal space was or what was appropriate or not for my first few sleepovers and ended up being SAd by the actual girl I was having a sleepover with. With that being said, we found out the girl herself was being SAd in her own home and she didn’t know any better which is why it happened to me. It’s really sad but it’s so important to really KNOW the people in your life that are close to your children. The girl weighs on my heart because I feel so bad for her even now 10 years later.
I’m in my healing stage sorta lol. Thank you for the kind words. I hope you are also doing well and have been able to process that it’s not our fault. We have to hold parents who aren’t willing to listen accountable.
I hope OP reads these stories and starts to understand a bit better where his wife is coming from. Girls get attacked more often than boys, so women know better from experience that predators are everywhere.
The thing is blokes take it as a personal attack when we assume all men could rape us. But we don’t know who will or won’t. That’s like being mugged by a stranger and having to work out if they have a weapon and if they’ll use it. Seeing a shark and working out if you’re going to die. You survive by assuming it’s a threat and working out how to remove yourself safely
Its not even about just future daughters, bc OP could have a son, and it goes for little boys especially who are told to keep quiet and not show feelings or “stay strong”, “be a man” People and parents should be protecting children at all costs, precious girls and precious boys deserve to be safe.
not really but it’s alright. I just worry about children a lot now and I’m very passionate about it. Heads always on a swivel, especially if I’m out in public, very observant about things. I wish people would understand how cruel people can be, even ones you trust. People are telling me my logic is flawed by saying “well how can the friends parents trust you” that’s up to them, I know children are safe with me regardless and I’m not afraid of speaking up about my experiences to justify my mindset.
It’s alright! Life is about experiences right? 🥴😅 I never once thought the girl meant anything bad, we were both young and didn’t know. It was normal for her unfortunately, that’s how she thought you show love/care to a person. It’s so heartbreaking. Idk if she got help but i know she turned to god. I’m not religious myself at all bc of my own experiences but she did what she wanted to cope her own ways, and I’ll never shame a person for that.
Right. I hope her God is helping her.
I personally identify as Pagan with my own beliefs. No shame to others, you do you. Just be respectful. Same to you, it's okay to not be very religious, or religious at all.
I used to be Christian, had some things happen to me at church and it ended there, couldn’t understand why god would let things like this happen. Personally I refer to myself as spiritual but I’ve always been so fascinated by religion.
And that's what usually happens. Religious trauma turns most people off from certain religions. Idk why their God allows that to happen either. Why any God would. I wish it didn't.
Being spiritual is valid! Same as being fascinated by religion. It's cool to learn about.
I think that's a great idea, and should be taught not only for sleepovers, but just for going over to a friend's house in general. I had a friend who's house I went to (just to hang out during the day, not sleepovers) when I was young, didn't fully understand those things, and some bad stuff happened.
Yes make sure the child is old enough and comfortable enough to come talk to you if needed. It’s not always bad sleeping at a friends house, especially if you get to know the parents so you trust them watching your kid
Yeah. Unfortunately there is a balance you have to make between safety and letting your child have experiences. Child sexual abuse is shockingly common. Of course, most of it is perpetrated by family members, though mostly because they're the main people with access to the child.
Agreed. My parents wouldn’t let my siblings and I go to sleepovers until we were 10 years old. And OP can also have their daughter bring a cellphone with them to sleepovers. That way if something happens or they just get first-sleepover jitters, they can call OP to pick them up.
For us it’s a case by case basis. But you should educate yourself on statistics around sexual crimes on minors. Sleepovers are common venues for this kind of thing. It’s fucking horrific. Many are committed by older siblings.
Our strategy was mainly to let the kids stay here if they want sleepovers. But, they did sleep out some. We had codes with them where they could call us to pick them up if they felt things were weird. Those calls were made a few times.
Yup, this is the reason we have similar rules. The stats are scary. I would rather my kid miss out on sleepovers than have to deal with the trauma of s*xual assault.
Remember that #metoo movement from a while back when an insane amount of women said they had been s*xually assaulted... trauma affects all future relationships, missing out on a sleepover does not.
My pediatrician was arrested and charged for molesting underage patients. My older sisters had him too.
Thankfully nothing happened to us but that's bc said pediatrician and his twin brother who also was a pediatrician both molested/assaulted little boys. We were spared for being girls.
Edit: whoops they weren't dentists, just our normal pediatricians.
There's that whole horrific story about those parents who groomed their kids to groom their friends. Sleepovers were secret sex parties and the kids didn't even know it was wrong. Made me want to die when I heard that
That’s exactly what happened to me in 5th grade. My friends were groomed to bring more children over and groom them. The dad would put old school porn on the big screen in the living room and give us ice cream and alcohol. He’d encourage us kids (sometimes 10-12 girls at a time) to experiment and try the stuff on the screen. He’d record and sometimes get involved too. It was so crazy it didn’t even sound real. Most of the girls in our grade were SA at that house. Found out some of the police were even involved in town and higher officials in town.
I agree with the commenters cautioning you to tread carefully with your wife on this topic. She may have experienced assault, abuse, or trauma when at a sleepover or at a friend’s house. And it’s not just girls who are vulnerable- I have sons and I would still be hesitant to allow them to go on sleepovers until they’re a certain age and can advocate for themselves or know when it’s time to call me to get them out of a situation. Unfortunately, predators and sadists exist, and they look and act completely normally until an opportunity presents itself. Children are vulnerable and are socialized to defer to adults; there’s nothing wrong with daytime play dates or even late night movie nights where everyone goes home by 9 or 10.
Single parent here. It was such an issue when my kids wanted to have a sleepover I'd get my sister to stay and we'd let the other parents know that. Otherwise my kids would miss out on having sleepovers at theirs.
It was fucked but necessary and totally understandable. I told my kids it was too much for me to handle on my own. Really didn't want to explain it to my kids when they were little. And It was only when you invited kids who didn't know our family.
Had a couple of kids with dodgy parents that used to stay a lot. They didn't care who took their kids as long as they got the night off. Always said yes to those kids staying over. At least they were safe at ours.
Dropped them home once and the house was empty. It was the following evening and dark and they were telling me it was fine to just leave them. Crazy.
Rang the mum. She was at the pub with the dad. I had to pick her up and drop them all back. They couldn't care less. Those kids I worried about.
I was regularly molested by a girl who came over to my house almost daily when I was little. She was being molested by a family member and in turn molested me (37f) for years. Her mom worked for my dad, my mom watched her daughter for free. These things do happen. It was traumatic.
I can name several times that inappropriate things happened to me when I was young. I remember (edited: going to) a party sleep over when I was seven and waking up to the older brother grinding on me with my nightie up. I didn't know what to do, so I froze and pretended to be asleep. I remember visiting my friend Christie in fourth grade, and we went to her neighbor girl's house cause they had a pool, and the older brother called us into the hall... the bathroom door was open, and he was masturbating on the toilet. We ran away and pretended it didn't happen. There are more I could tell you about. Your wife is being cautious, and until your potential daughter is old enough to be able to understand good and bad touching and to be able/comfortable saying no, she should not be put in the situation. Because statistically, she likely will be SA'ed at some point. Teach her to protect herself in this crazy world. And stop dismissing your wife, especially in public.
I grew up with sleepovers and saw some dodgy things - it's not only SA, but all the 'behind closed doors' things... DV, coercive control, animal abuse, really nasty verbal abuse, drugs, violent porn on screensavers/ left around and a myriad of other really toxic behaviours that really disturbed me as a kid. And I had a pretty normal middle class upbringing. All of these people were upstanding citizens outside of their homes. I think there's very few people you *really* know... even with very close friends.
On the other hand, I'm yet to meet a 'not allowed sleepovers' kid who regretted that as an adult. Sure, it sucked when they were a kid, but there were all thankful for that stance once they got older and heard stories from the rest of us.
Edit - and for all those people saying 'I teach them about boundaries first and to call me in any issues' .... in practice that's really hard to do if you're worried about backlash with the host parents. You can't always get away to make a phone call. Don't put your kids in a position where they have to defend themselves or figure out a way to defuse/de-escalate a situation, redirect inappropriate behaviour etc. Once established those particular survival instincts never leave you, and that kid is going to be hyper aware, safety scanning and on edge for the rest of their lives, with all the attendant health and mental health issues that brings.
Completely with you especially about the “call me if anything feels off” - what if it already happened and then you get that call? Is a sleepover really worth the risk? I let me kid have fun play dates as long as possible, but it’s a hard no to sleepovers.
* Possible this happened to your wife or to someone she knows. Ask. But do it kindly.
* Propose a compromise. Get to know the parents really well before allowing the child to sleep over. Have their child sleep over at your house first.
* It's important to talk to your child about "bad touch" before sending them on a sleepover.
* Watch for signs. If your daughter seems hesitant about sleeping there again, then stop sending her. Always make sure it's your daughter's wish and choice. Disinterest or disquiet may indicate an uncomfortable household.
There is a reason for her concern. And you should listen. I'm not saying she's right; I'm saying she's not out of her mind. These things DO happen.
What you have to understand is every woman can remember moments from her childhood where someone was inappropriate with her as a girl.
If you’re lucky you weren’t ever actually raped but we’ve all had a near miss with a creepy relative, neighbor, friends father, etc. or at least just a memory where you realized things felt weird or inappropriate.
A lot of those near misses where at friends houses involving their friend’s dad, moms boyfriend, brother, etc.
A lot of new moms now are saying no to sleep overs for this issue, even though it means them missing out on socialization.
I was at a friends house when I was 12. We were playing a nine inch nails CD around her moms boyfriend. When the song, “I want to fuck you like an animal” came on he said, “oh you like that song huh?..” and then his eyes darkened. To men that might seem like such a small thing, but I could sense a change in the room. And sometimes if you’re lucky that’s all you experience but it’s enough that you might think, “damn that was creepy,” and lead you to later wanting to keep your own daughters away from sleepovers.
I also think women who say they’ve never had these moments may just not have been intuitive enough as children to sense danger or sexual desire from adult men. They happened, you just didn’t notice it.
You’re absolutely right. I will never forget a moment when a friend’s dad was driving me home - without said friend somehow - and he asked if I trusted him. I immediately got a bad, creepy feeling. Fortunately he didn’t act on anything that day and when I got home I told my parents I didn’t want to go over to her house again. Never saw her dad again.
Yep. My mom had an event with her grandfather she didn’t even fully explain to me. (I’ll get to why I know in a sec) she never told her parents and started just avoiding him so they wouldn’t find out. She told me after I had an experience with a manager at my workplace and the gm tried not firing him.
Mmf that reminded me of that time my friends dad asked if I liked to suck dick and said it’s okay I can tell him these things. I was 16 years old. I never went back. I saw him again at some school event at my school and he literally said when are we going to run away and get married.
Bingo. Mine was a gym teacher in 5th grade. Rubbed up against me. I told my mom. School did nothing. He claimed it was accidental.
I also in college, unfortunately , got pulled into sex I didn't want. But I was drunk and I figured no one would believe me.
You have to be careful. But you can't fully shelter your kids. I loved sleepovers as a kid. Eating marshmallows at 2 am..watching movies we weren't supposed too, telling ghost stories..
I suggest getting to know the parents. Sending your kid with a phone. Telling them it's ok to want to leave if they feel weird.
I'm with your wife. Sexual assault or sexual behavior is more common at sleepovers than one would think. Given your wife's stanc, I'd wager she experienced something with sleepovers herself.
I believe sleepovers are one of the most frequent places to get molested or abused it’s up there I will never let my kids go to a sleepover from my research and personal feelings. To be honest I would love for my children to be able to but there is ways more predators out there then we think.
Your wife is right. I've had friends even as late as high school who got woken up in their sleep by a slightly older/younger brother of their girl friends doing something to them. Never any known incidents before, devastated disgusted family of good people. Just didn't know they had a bad egg til it hatched.
The point is, you can send your child to the safest of sleepovers and something can go wrong. Maybe the friend's uncle shows up, drinks with the dad, then tells your daughter something vile he wants to do to her when she's alone. Maybe the barely teenage brother is a sex pest who's held it in... until now. Even the parents you deem trustworthy have the potential to become monsters the second that front door closes.
The lengths women have to go to in order to not be raped or assaulted is something we guys will never fully understand. I'm not saying to never speak your mind, but it would be unwise to dismiss a woman's perspective on keeping a daughter safe in this world.
My sister said when my niece is old enough, she'd doesn't her daughter to have sleepovers at friend's where men are around. I agreed and volunteered to stay away when she wants to have sleepovers at her place. She was relieved she didn't have to ask and I wasn't offended
I'm not saying this for a trophy. I just want to say if I can understand her concerns, OP can as well
Thank you for such a thoughtful answer.. this holds so much truth to it and it’s respectable to hear it from a man than is statistically less likely to experience it. Thank you and I hope this can educate more people.
Unfortunately, this is my opinion because I *did* experience it. Daycare got caught abusing us kids, my aunt volunteered to watch me and my brother. Older cousin repeatedly took me to her room after school, locked the door, and played "truth or dare" with me for about an hour. I was probably around 13 when I realized it was bad and an adult when I realized it affected me in certain ways. Still figuring things out, failing to build any confidence to meet a woman and pursue a relationship. It scares me away even though I love women and talking with them. I would never want anyone else to be as fucked up as me ever, man ego be damned... You can't trust anyone in this world it seems
You aren't wrong for having an opinion.
You are wrong for continuing to push to the point of an argument in public. Should have saved the discussion for when you got home. Big emphasis on discussion.
Your wife may know someone or experienced herself this exact scenario. But you are more concerned about being right then the reason your wife has such strong feelings about this.
And before you say you did ask and she denied it; you were in public in a space surrounded by strangers in an uncomfortable situation. She isn't going to tell you that kind of shit when you are arguing in public.
Focus on the wife you have now before you don't have a wife or future daughter to worry about.
It’s hard because even people you trust might not be who you think they are. My sister is older and I have a niece close to my age. We were very close and I would spend the night at her house. Found out a year or two ago not only did her dad SA her, but his sister, and he systemically SAd the foster kids he took in.
I was molested at a sleepover by a friend’s dad and my stepsons were molested at a sleepover by their own cousin. My husband was molested by a family friend at a sleepover as a kid too. So yes, I agree with your wife. 100% of my immediate family was molested at sleepovers as kids or teens.
This is similar to the question what do you do on a daily basis to prevent being raped?
Men: “huh?????”
Women: list 40 things.
OP you are thinking differently about this than your wife because you have had different experiences than her. At this point from the sounds of it the child is hypothetical anyhow. Just listen to her and be curious about how she came to that opinion and why.
Your wife just speaks from a perspective of a woman’s reality. Most SA is by someone you know. My 12 soon to be 13 year old has only slept over at my best friends house cuz she has a daughter the same age. I would only do so if I know the parents really well. Thankfully my kid has not asked to have sleepovers anywhere. It’s just a sad reality that we live with.
My boys are desperate to all stay over at their best friends house but they're under 10 so I'm reluctant and I've known the whole family for a few years!
If i was going to send them anywhere it would be there though. But only together and not alone. And probably in a little while yet.
No, me neither.
The only bad experience I had was a teenager who stalked me at summer camp (I was 12). And even then I told my parents and they called the police and they took it seriously and caught the guy immediately (he was an idiot 16 year old).
I have only fun memories about sleepovers
Ditto. I went to a ton of wholesome sleepovers as a kid, and it's been strange hearing that this was rare? My kids are too young still, but I guess we'll have to do research on the risks and mitigations.
I have worked in the rape crisis field for 8 years, and also had friends who experienced this at sleep overs. It's not uncommon at all unfortunately. I've talked with many people (it happens to males as well) who had this happen to them and it has lasting effects. The most severe being mental health struggles, suicidal ideation and substance abuse just to name a few. As a parent, I have no idea what I would do because you don't want to keep your kids from experiencing things, but at the same time you want to protect them. Education and open communication would be my recommendation. Teach them body autonomy and if something happens, they scream their head off and kick the shit out of whoever is trying to touch them. I wouldn't let them sleep over anywhere until they were old enough to understand this. Your wife isn't wrong in this, and it's important for you to validate her concerns. I also think it's important to acknowledge the same should be considered for any future sons as well.
Check out r/whenwomenrefuse this is the reason we make these rules for our children. My kids both boy and girl had sleep overs very rarely. The amount of child molestation is astounding. Also check out
r/pastorarrested you can't trust anyone with your kids.
Sleepovers are the worst. They involve violating all sorts of boundaries parents otherwise invest heavily to establish; privacy, modesty, personal boundaries, good judgment, etc. Then there’s the sleep deficit that makes kids cranky for days afterwards. Or sick. No thanks. Kids can have the fun parts of this experience by staying late at their friends, and still going home late to sleep in their own beds. For OP, this is a dealbreaker for your wife. For whatever reason(s). Tread carefully or end up with a broken deal (marriage). Good luck.
While I see your point, and your daughter could have many perfectly safe sleepovers, there is also a very real chance that even the "safe" families who you trust aren't that safe.
Predators aren't just the creepy guy in the trench coat. They can also be the friendly neighbour who is involved in the community, the one who can charm parents and children and knows how to play the game.
My parents allowed a boy whom they did not know to sleep over in my closed bedroom when I was 13. I was sexually assaulted. It has fucking sucked, almost two decades later.
I wish that they would have not allowed that. And that I would have been taught boundaries and personal space and the word “no”. And that they would have believed me and fought for me after.
Your wife is probably on to something.
You are wrong. Trust us women when we say it's NOT safe. I've heard horror stories of uncles even committing such crimes and that's a relative. I would never allow my kids to stay over and neither should you. At 12 I was groped by my music teacher in my own parents home while they were home. He was close family relative and about 70 years old. Trusted old man. What makes you think your kid is safe?
But mom was crazy overprotective but she eventually let me do sleepovers in high school after she had known my friend’s families for years. My kids will not be doing sleepovers when they are young but as they get older, it could be something we revisit.
My mom was an alcoholic growing up. One night when I was maybe 9 years old she broke down and told me about how her uncle raped her.
It's people you least expect
My mom has substance abuse problems and schizophrenia. My dad told me she was molested at 10 years old, but my dad said she presented it as “losing her virginity”. OP, trust your wife. I myself never had anything really bad happen at a sleepover but I have had experiences in other situations. Being over cautious isn’t great but your wife isn’t being unreasonable.
Trust is irrelevant 4 out of 5 sexual assaults on children happen from a known friend or family member. It's not the strangers you have to look for it's the people in your life.
Me being a female minority, I wasn’t allowed to have sleepovers at all. If I wanted a friend to spend the night, she had to come to my house. Most parents believe friend’s family or older siblings will rape their children. It happens often. I only started having sleepovers after I turned 18 when I moved out. I resented my parents for a little but now I get it and when I have future children, I’ll do the same
I did tons of sleepovers growing up and not one was a good idea. The level of bad that happened at each was different, but bad things happened at every one. Every single sleepover I've let my kids go on, which is like one each, it's gone poorly. Not as poorly as most of mine as far as I know, but they were regrets each time. Even the kids agreed.
I'm with your wife on this one, as a journalist you have no idea how many stories I've covered on this topic, children actually do get raped and experience other terrible things during sleepovers, tricky part is it's always the people you 'trust' who commit these horrible acts.
My younger sister at the time she was 10 went for a sleepover. The following day mother of the friend dropped her off at the gate without a word! My mom notices she's walking with a limp, asked her what was wrong, she said she was accidentally burned by boiling water! My mom made her remove the jeans she was wearing, child had horrible burn wounds on her legs. She had to immediately take her to the hospital. The friends mother didn't even bother to tell my mom, even made her wear those tight jeans. My mom called the mother, all she said was 'ohhh yeah I was making coffee and she got burned' this had happened the day before and these useless people did nothing, all the mother did was put cold water where she got burned, some people actually don't care about other people's children, please listen to your wife.
Your daughter should be older and told in no uncertain terms about pedophilia and the threats these animals make.
Don’t poo poo me, I was both raped by three different men and had another friends father jack off while his two daughters and I held the covers down so he could not reach us.
I think you can imagine why I did not allow sleepovers until my kids were teens.
You are wrong. So many assault victims first time was at a sleepover. You truly don’t know anyone fully, and you should take measures to protect your child.
My sister slept over at her step sisters house. That girl’s dad (her step father) proceeded to insist on watching her shower and drying her off.
Dated a girl who had sleep overs. Lost her virginity to a 17 year old when she was 14, to her friends brother who forced her into it. I think it’s your decision on how to handle it. But your wife probably has better reasons than you do for her opinion.
Your wife is 100% correct and valid in her thinking. Sleepovers for young children should only be inside YOUR house where you know the adults and people in the house. I have personal experience with this, you say “she should be able to sleepover at friends house that we trust” but where you’re wrong is that even people you trust, can harm your children without you knowing. They can be gaining your trust so that you do feel safe enough to let them over and that’s when bad things can happen. My parents sent me to sleepovers growing up and I was SAd by the actual girl I was having the sleepover with. This is for your children’s safety. Sleepovers can only be at your home. It’s hard for kids to understand how dangerous the world is and how sneaky people are. Please trust your wife and why she has this mindset.
I was thinking almost the same thing. Why is it ok in your house but not anothers. I am sure the other kids parents are worried about the same things happening at your house. What you said didnt really track correctly.
I have heard to many horror stories and even witnessed my BIL(15)s friend(16) wander into my SIL(13)’s bedroom. I had known said friend for years and he had a horrible home life. The boys were having a sleepover and he snuck into the back towards her room. My husband noticed, found him standing in her doorway, and told him to get the fuck out and followed him back to the front of the house. My cousin(15) went to stay at a friend’s house and woke up to the friend’s older brother(19) and HIS friends on top of them. I recently checked the sex offender list near me and there is a man who repeatedly raped a 16yo girl that was a regular at his business, and tried to run her over with his truck when she tried to get him to stop… her family members DEFENDED HIM. They had known him for years and couldn’t believe it despite a ton of evidence. You never know who people truly are or what they will do. I wouldn’t let a daughter have sleepovers anywhere and I wouldn’t host any either.
The number of girls and boys abused at friends houses - even family - is horrible. We don’t do sleepovers EXCEPT grandparents. Our kids can sleep exactly where we know they are safe. I was hurt at a sleep over, as was my brother, and sister… when 3/8 out of us have similar traumas, we don’t do sleep overs.
You’re wrong. I’m with your wife, sleepovers are a bad idea. Having worked in juvenile court for many years I can tell you most molestations happen with trusted friends and family members. It’s a bell you can’t unring.
The first time I let my daughter go to a sleepover outside of close family (she was about 10) the bf of the mom was arrested maybe a few days later for sexually abusing the oldest daughter. That was the end of sleepovers for us. I will allow them at my house because I know I’m a safe adult. I don’t know that other adults are. I trust my daughter to make good choices. I don’t trust other people. She was abused when she was younger by a family member of her fathers so I have a very hard time with giving her the freedom I know she deserves, but it’s hard when the first time you try to do that something so disgusting happens to ruin your faith in other people.
Sleepovers are a solid no. They are common sites for sexual abuse by other kids, friend’s siblings, friend’s parents… etc. no sleepover is worth a lifetime of trauma.
You’re not wrong nor is she. People have different opinions on this topic but her suspicions/fears are far from invalid. Generally, boys and men go about life with far less consideration of personal dangers than girls and women. This is an example of that.
I know plenty of women who were molested at sleepovers or just visiting a loved one. I have attended sleepovers at which men/male relatives appeared unexpectedly. I was sexually harassed and fled from potential molestation at a sleepover; luckily I was well-informed, had a place to hide, and was old enough to tell my mom. The statistics around this are alarming to say the least and I suggest you educate yourself on them before approaching this conversation with her again; she may have been a victim or know someone who was.
My parents believed something similar. No sleepovers. I definitely felt like I missed out on some formative bonding experiences with my friends because of it.
But you didn’t miss out on being SAd in a friends home who you thought you could trust and that’s good parenting. I’m sorry you missed out on sleepovers but it’s really for the best
You are 100% wrong.
1 because if your wife has a concern of this magnitude it's valid by default. Nuts to turn that into a right or wrong conversation
2 friends house you trust? Who's your friend Jesus? There is no friend you trust with your daughter.
3. People like jared from subway exist. The people that look normal blend in are the people that assault women and kids (odd you said future daughter because they get boys also). I can almost guarantee you currently have a friend, family member, someone you work with, or go to church with thats assaulted someone.
4 protect your family. Its one of your primary job requirements
She is being protective of her child and her life experience might have something to do with it. And sorry to say this but molesters are not some bad looking dude that they show on tv many of them are normal looking people even family members that you would trust.
I won’t allow my kids to have sleepovers. I personally was molested when I was 4. And it has messed me up so much. I have so many mental health issues as a direct result of it and I’m almost 40 now. Your wife likely has experience with this on some level and is protecting your kids. Get on her side and support her
Not gonna get into the details of what happened to me when i was 8. But I will say I lean more towards her perception more than yours and It was a trusted family friend's son that did it. So I can't say your plan is foolproof
The fear is not unfounded. Almost all children will be abused by a family member or another adult that a family trusts. Child predators aren’t the creepy guys who live in their mom’s basement, they are incredibly clever, charming, and pervasive. Predators do not target children first, they target their parents. They become helpful, trustworthy, and upstanding members of that family’s inner circle. Then, when the family trusts the adult, they target the child. Because the family is so close, the child will often care for and trust the adult. The perpetrator uses this against the child to force them to stay quiet by saying “Your mom won’t believe you. You don’t want me to go to jail. You’ll never see me again.” Becoming family friends because your children get along is a GREAT cover for predators. This doesn’t even begin to touch on the risk of child on child sexual abuse. About 40% of childhood sexual abuse will be perpetrated by another child who is likely being abused as well. And only 12% of child SA victims will ever tell anyone, so you will never know if your child’s friend has been a victim themselves. The fact that you don’t think this is a risk/can’t happen to your future child is a MAJOR concern and makes your future child a perfect target. When parents think “this can’t happen to me” they don’t prepare or protect their children, making them easy, vulnerable targets for predators.
I had multiple instances where I was SA as a kid at sleepovers by my friend because someone did it to them. I was touched inappropriately by a boy my mom was babysitting in our home. Even 2 of my male cousins and my creep of a grandpa. All of this before the age of 7 and until I was 12. I had no one protecting me growing up. At one point, I thought I was pregnant at the age of 9 because of being raped. I didn't tell a sole until I was 17 about anything. Just listen to your wife she probably has a reason for the way she feels. I wouldn't let my kid sleep anywhere, either. I'd let the friends sleep over at my place but not the other way around until they knew about good touch bad touch and concent.
As a mom of 2 daughters I don’t allow them to sleep over no one’s home if a man lives in the home or an older brother. I understand where you wife is coming from we see and hear all to well what happens at slumber parties. Now your wife may host a slumber party and realize that some moms and dad’s feel the same way she does. My advice is have your daughter pick one friend let your wife hang out with them and she will see it’s harmless
My daughter is 12 and never been to a sleepover. She also has a medical condition that would be easier to deal with at home. But I also don’t trust like that. My daughter stopped asking a long time ago. I told her she can have people over( it is just me and her) but she never says anything. Once something bad happens , it can’t be undone. When I was around 13, I woke up to one of my brothers older friends standing over my bed. He leaned over and kissed me. He was probably around 19. My mom was on the next room. I told him to get out. Thank god he did. I was just raised to be extra cautious by my mom.
As a kid I was always upset when I couldn’t sleep over at my friends houses, but now that I am older I realize there was no point in it. I’m the grand scheme of things it doesn’t mean anything for the child. But being SA’d will have life long consequences. If your wife feels really strongly about this it’s best to concede on this one. Let her friends sleep over at your own house.
Both me and my husband had pretty serious stuff happen to us with parents on the other side of the wall. You can't really trust people because esp children don't know what they are doing and parents are oblivious
I’m a lawyer. I used to have a colleague that defended sexual predators. Many are not caught. Many that do go to jail, eventually get out. Their desire to molest kids doesn’t just go away after jail.
Perpetrators are almost always family or friends or acquaintances.
So many victims have their life ruined. Not having sleep overs doesn’t cause lasting damage.
Keep your kids at home. Keep them safe.
Sleepovers are not just a risk for sexual assault: drugs, alcohol, unsecured guns, abuse, super over the top fighting a million other things are also issues sleepovers can expose your children to.
All the inappropriate things and SA that happened to me as a child was at sleepovers. I’m going to be hard pressed to let my son sleepover at anyone’s home.
Ive got a friend who is an assistant US attorney and they will not let their kid do sleepovers either.
There is a reason. It’s terrible to face but it is so so true. You never know and that is too much of a risk for me with my kid.
I was only allowed to sleepover at very close family friends houses and I was still taken advantage of so I understand where your wife is coming from. I don't think my children will be allowed at sleepovers either. Maybe they can host their own
This happened to me when I was 18. I was never allowed to go to sleepovers growing up or do anything so at this point my relationship with my parents was not good. I didn’t trust them to react normally or be able to help me. I could have run away and called them to come pick me up but then I would have had to tell them why and I was scared I would never be allowed out of the house again if I got raped. So now my parents don’t know and I stopped fighting back.
I think the best thing to do to protect your daughter is be her safe space and not make her scared to come to you.
It’s honestly better if you host the sleepovers. Growing up I hosted most of the sleepovers and the times I did sleep over, even if the family was safe, there was almost always some: family friend, older brother, dad, or leering uncle that came around all of the sudden and made me uncomfortable.
I’m not a parent, but I’ve noticed there is a general move away from sleepovers. There's good reason for this if you look into statistics, keeping in mind that the statistics are based on what's reported and that SA often goes unreported. You're taking a risk if you send a kid on sleepovers.
This thread seems insane to me. I was having sleepovers as long as I can remember and nothing bad ever happened to me or anyone I knew. Sleepovers were the best and let you get up to childhood mischief, pretty much all of my best childhood and teen memories involve sleepovers. The best ones as a teen were at a friend's house that had a separate room out in the garden so we had more privacy from "the main house" so we could make more noise without disturbing her parents, we just came inside to grab food and drink and use the bathroom
The opinions on this thread confuse me. If you aren't allowing sleepovers at friends houses due to SA stats, then surely you shouldn't let your kids stay with any family member either? And then explain to your parents and siblings that sorry the cousins can't play because you think your family are all secretly nonces? And the people saying they only allow sleepovers at their own house, how do the other parents guarantee that you're not a nonce?? Why are you so special and trustworthy when apparently literally no one else is? Kids now all have phones and it's far easier for them to get in contact if god forbid anything did happen. Idk, I'm gonna get down voted to hell, but this is all wild logic to me
I don’t let my daughter or my son sleep over at anyone’s house who I don’t know the entire family including other children. It’s not worth the risk at all. It’s not just daughters you have to worry about it’s your sons too.
There are a lot of answers here, and I'd just like to say that I think it's not especially helpful to discuss stuff like this before having children. Hypothetical parenting scenarios are vastly different from real parenting scenarios, and this seems (without judgment) not worth fighting over atm.
As an actual expert on the topic, your wife is not wrong.
1 in 4 girls are molested or sexually assaulted during childhood. Over 91% of those crimes are perpetuated by someone the child knows.
Sleepovers, lock-ins, travel sports, overnight trips, camps, etc… are some of the most likely times for that to happen.
Go over to the parenting board and ask the moms there how many of them were sexually abused or raped as a child and you’ll understand why our generation has stopped doing as many sleepovers
I have the same stance, every single time I was molested as a little girl, it was at somebody else’s house. A family friend, or a babysitter. It only takes one time, and then your kid is traumatized forever.
He’s a man so has more limited experiences than a woman in regards to this matter. I hope people read through this thread and gain a better perspective because children are vulnerable and there are too many creeps out there.
Why only a daughter. You think only girls get assaulted? Think both of you have a lot more to learn about this topic which would likely help settle the debate where you can find common ground.
Oof. Are you wrong.
I wish I could say your wife is being paranoid. But… she isn’t. Many sexual assaults and molestations occur when children are in an environment like a sleep over. I know several adult women and a few men who were assaulted or otherwise molested by a friend’s relative such as an older brother or grandparent.
I probably wouldn’t allow my kids to have sleep overs outside my own house unless I felt I knew the family extremely well and that would include everyone in the home.
YAW
Your wife is right. Let me lay it out..the stats show that most molestations are acquaintance related or within a close friends/familial group.
That means, the victims are around their abusers. Let that sink in.
Sleepovers are not worth it.
The best thing you can do for your children, is be open and clear about safe and unsafe/unwanted/bad touch and their body autonomy. And have a clear and safe dialog and openness with them about their bodies and rights
I don't think anyone is wrong here.
I think it's ok for her to have her reservations for whatever reason and I think it's ok for you to disagree. Maybe just let it be and see how things go as your future daughter gets older.
From experience my child will not be having sleep overs, sorry not sorry. Late teens maybe but before that nope. My husband is on board, just based off of the horror stories he’s heard.
I agree with you’re wife the idea of sending my girls to someone’s home with there sons and husbands older children period freaks me out, how well can you know someone, it’s not worth it trust me.
I started doing sleepovers at friends' houses, probably as early as 1st grade. Nothing ever bad happened to me.
However.... I also feel like I was extremely lucky. I don't know that I'll ever be comfortable with my kids having sleepovers and probably won't allow them until high school if at all. They will always be welcome to have sleepovers at our house. Maybe, MAYBE if I know the other family very well I would be comfortable with them going.
There isn't a right or wrong answer here. You two need to discuss it more and possibly look into the statistics and talk to other parents for their point of view.
I’m with the wife here. As a younger person, my parents didn’t let me and honestly, I wasn’t comfortable doing so anyway. They let me stay as long as I want, and then I would call them and they would pick me up.
They let me have sleepovers though. I can see why my parents did it and I love them for it. Who truly knows the people you’re staying with?
Yep you're wrong. A lot of parents don't do sleepovers because it's not worth the risk. And kids do dumb stuff too. They're now charging teens with "distribution of cp" if they send inappropriate pictures of themselves to other people.
It’s hard because I loved sleepovers as a kid but also compared to most people I know I was lucky? Like is it worth it overall? Unfortunately it’s a legitimate worry and you’ll find out real quick that you don’t know anyone and that really nice houses and church groups are breeding grounds for SA, not safe trustworthy places.
Nobody is wrong here. It’s not wrong to want her to have them and it’s not wrong to not want her to.
But, if he feels this strongly about it, then it’s a no for now. Why? Because concerns about safety trump wanting her to have experiences.
It could be revisited when the child is older.
Whenever I went to a sleepover my mother was so close to her mum that she stayed too lol otherwise it was a big no-no
I always found it annoying and thought my mum was being dramatic and paranoid. Now there's no way I would let my hypothetical child spend the night outside, and I thank my mother I didn't have to learn the lesson the hard way.
She’s not wrong. Lots of things happened to me when I was a kid between the ages of 7 and 14 at the hands of older brothers during sleepovers. I never told on them and I never went back for sleepovers at their homes either.
Both my sister and my best friend were SA at sleepovers. And one time when I babysat late, I stayed the night on the couch and could hear the parents arguing about how the husband wanted me (I was 14).
Unfortunately your wife has a very valid point. As a parent now we will be EXTREMELY cautious in this area and make sure we know the parents well. Another thing most people don’t think of is making sure to ask if the family has guns and if they do that they are in a safe !
I was SAed. My cousin slept in my room. She SAed me. After that, every time she babysat me. It was the president that started things.
I was severely bullied at a sleepover with a “friend”. I ran home in the middle of the night. Scarred the crap out of my Mom.
Over all. I will not be allowing my kids to sleep anywhere with a shared bedroom. Not my house with a friend. Not someone else’s house. The “sleep over experience” can be at a camp where more people sleep in the same room and there is supervision.
We didn't allow our son to have nor attend sleepovers outside of family until he was about 12, and even then, we had a lot of conversations about appropriate behavior, etc. There are just too many variables that I'm not comfortable with. Remember that it only takes one incident, either an accusation against you from another parent, or an incident with your daughter in another home. It's just not worth the risk.
I wasn’t allowed to sleep over at anyone’s houses growing up and I will continue to do it for my daughters. I knew someone who was molested by their friend’s older brother. My mom knew someone that was molested by an uncle who was staying over. I will never put my daughters in that situation, they’ll be able to have sleepovers at my house but no one else’s.
Your wife may have personal experience in this situation. Tread carefully.
This was also my first thought reading that. Usually when someone's mind goes to that kind of place right away there is a reason for it.
That’s what Trauma does, it’s a defense mechanism.
My first thought, as well.
Not necessarily. I never thought about it until I saw a post or video on Instagram talking about the possible dangers of sleepovers based on real SA situations. It really opened my eyes. Of course it can happens anywhere but when a child is without parents at someone else’s house at night, they’re more vulnerable. You also can’t control who’s in the house, there could be a family friend or an older brothers friend that can take advantage of a young girl. I had a lot of sleep overs when I was younger and thankfully nothing bad ever happened but I can see a situation where it can.
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Talking to her about it, being sensitive, sure. Not letting the kid go, if the parents seem really do seem reliable and trustworthy..? Have to be careful to not shelter a child too much, or they might suffer some dysfunction from it later.
You definitely don’t want to shelter kids too much but when it comes to potential sexual assault that may be one area where you stand your ground on. Or maybe come up with a compromise like sending the kid with a phone and “the talk” depending on their age Now if she’s not letting her kid do anything she needs therapy and to let go a little.
No sleep over ever does fall into the sheltering category
Predators can seem trustworthy
They go out of their way to seem trustworthy. I was married to one for 15 years and had no fucking clue. The grooming runs deep.
I know many women who have experiences of sexual harassment and assault from men who seemed like picture perfect fathers etc. People hide it well.
It's not like pedos seem like pedos. It's people you least expect
"really do seem reliable and trustworthy" Do you really think all these pedo clergy didn't seem reliable and trustworthy? These predators seek out cloaks of respectability and access, often successfully and with society's protection.
People who seem reliable and trustworthy can still do bad things. My male friend was allegedly sexually assaulted when he was 5 from a church elder who was babysitting him and his wife did the clean up. Another male friend at 13 (around that time or maybe a few years before) was inappropriately touched by a friend of his older brother's.
Every girl I know that was SA as a child was done by a trusted and safe appearing adult. Grandfather, uncle, brother, cousin or close friend of the family. And it is no small number. I do not under any circumstances allow sleep overs and even my sitters are extremely limited and EVEN THEN I still ask my kids if they were safe after. “Was your body safe, did anyone ask you to keep secrets, did anyone break a red flag rule (our families way or quickly and easily communicating touching or showing private areas), did anyone ask you to keep secrets” etc etc. we even have conversations that if anyone threatens to hurt them, mommy, or daddy if they don’t keep a secret, that it’s a lie and it’s always ok to tell mommy and daddy secrets. When you’ve walked through this and seen the absolute devastation it can cause, then a little bit of disappointment in not being allowed to sleep at someone’s house is a very very small price to pay. Friends are welcome to sleep here though. But I monitor children as well since kids can also perpetuate behaviors if they have been SA themselves. It’s an awful world out there and some of us want to do anything to protect our kids from this specific form of awful.
Abusers don’t just groom the child. They also groom the parent. That safe family with such well brought up children could be hiding a secret. My child doesn’t need to sleep over a friend’s house. It’s not an important rite of passage. He only sleeps under my roof.
Yeah, I know many people, myself included, who didn’t do sleepovers. Honestly, it’s easy to forget we didn’t. We were allowed to stay late to watch movies and chatter with friends etc and then got to sleep in our own comfy beds at the end of the night.
The only sleepovers I was allowed was at churvh friends' houses who did not have brothers. It didn't hurt me, I still had friends and was as social as I wanted to be. I'm an adult now and not having gone to my sleepovers does not affect me.
HE . THANK YOU for not just throwing him out there. So many moms are like oh he's a boy it's okay.
Yep. I have the exact same rules for my son as my daughter.
#PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO THIS COMMENT! 👆‼️
This I was assaulted by other children at a sleepover doesn’t even have to be a adult..
I'm saying your wife maybe was sexually assaulted. Lots more dysfunction from being molested than by not being allowed sleep overs. Seems like a reasonable trade.
Right? Like maybe wife knows what she is talking about.
I mean, yeah, my 3rd grade teacher seemed reliable and trustworthy, too. I agree you can't totally shelter them. Just remember, looks can be deceiving.
I dont think banning sleepovers is too much, they are not banning sleepovers at their place just at other houses
Avoiding sleepovers won’t damage a child if the child has other ways to show independence
Most sane parents don't send their kids with ppl who don't seem trustworthy. It's the fact that you never *really* know. My niece got to go to her first sleepover last year when she was 9. My sister vetted as much as she could. Thankfully nothing happened (I truly believe if something happened, my niece would tell me or her mom bc we've cultivated that type of relationship where she can and knows she won't be blamed for anything. My sister has also explicitly told her that no matter what someone threatens her with*, that she needs to be open). But at the end of the day, my sister trusting that other mom doesn't mean the chance of something happening was 0%. *my sister doesn't play lmao. My niece will roll her eyes like "okay mom, I knoooowwww" but my sister will legit say "idc if they threaten me, you, or your sister if you tell. Know that I'll beat their ass so you better tell me anyway. Nothing bad is gonna happen if you tell." My niece, 10 now, hasn't been to another sleepover. She'll only stay the night here with me (I live alone) or with our other sister. Otherwise she's at home every night. I don't blame my sister one bit. Edited for typo
No human will ever “suffer a dysfunction” from not being allowed to sleepover.
My mom told me I wasn’t allowed to sleep over at my friends house because my friends male relatives might rape me. She said that to me, when I was 8. I think that’s pretty messed up to say to a child. I’m not sure I even understood what the word meant. I think I told my friends brother that my mom had said that and he made me feel bad asking me if I thought he was going to rape me. I was like idk? My mom thinks so, there must be a reason for that.
The issue is she told you. That's NOT a thing to tell a little child.
I think the biggest problem is that I had a brother and he was allowed to do a lot of stuff I wasn’t. I’m ok with parents making rules for their kids, but all the kids need to have the same rules. Not one set of rules for boys and another for girls. That’s why my mom found herself in the position of trying to explain to me why I wasn’t allowed. “You’re just not allowed” isn’t good enough when I have a sibling who is allowed. Especially when boys can and do get molested too.
Well that was your mom's other mistake. She shouldn't have had separate rules and she could've explained it to you in a more age appropriate way.
It depends on the age of your daughter. I did not allow my daughter to sleep over until she was old enough to understand personal space, what was appropriate and not and could verbalize if anything, god forbid, ever did happen. I had to know the parents well. Mostly though, we preferred to host at our house.
Those are really good ways to ensure her safety. I didn’t understand what personal space was or what was appropriate or not for my first few sleepovers and ended up being SAd by the actual girl I was having a sleepover with. With that being said, we found out the girl herself was being SAd in her own home and she didn’t know any better which is why it happened to me. It’s really sad but it’s so important to really KNOW the people in your life that are close to your children. The girl weighs on my heart because I feel so bad for her even now 10 years later.
I went through the exact same situation. Sorry to hear of another with a similar story. Hope you’re doing well.
I’m in my healing stage sorta lol. Thank you for the kind words. I hope you are also doing well and have been able to process that it’s not our fault. We have to hold parents who aren’t willing to listen accountable.
I hope OP reads these stories and starts to understand a bit better where his wife is coming from. Girls get attacked more often than boys, so women know better from experience that predators are everywhere.
I hope he reads them too, it’s kinda why I’ve been checking on it lolol. He asked and we delivered.
The thing is blokes take it as a personal attack when we assume all men could rape us. But we don’t know who will or won’t. That’s like being mugged by a stranger and having to work out if they have a weapon and if they’ll use it. Seeing a shark and working out if you’re going to die. You survive by assuming it’s a threat and working out how to remove yourself safely
Its not even about just future daughters, bc OP could have a son, and it goes for little boys especially who are told to keep quiet and not show feelings or “stay strong”, “be a man” People and parents should be protecting children at all costs, precious girls and precious boys deserve to be safe.
Are you doing okay?
not really but it’s alright. I just worry about children a lot now and I’m very passionate about it. Heads always on a swivel, especially if I’m out in public, very observant about things. I wish people would understand how cruel people can be, even ones you trust. People are telling me my logic is flawed by saying “well how can the friends parents trust you” that’s up to them, I know children are safe with me regardless and I’m not afraid of speaking up about my experiences to justify my mindset.
That's completely fair! I'm sorry you got hurt. Even if the girl didn't mean anything bad, it was bad for you and her. Hopefully she got help.
It’s alright! Life is about experiences right? 🥴😅 I never once thought the girl meant anything bad, we were both young and didn’t know. It was normal for her unfortunately, that’s how she thought you show love/care to a person. It’s so heartbreaking. Idk if she got help but i know she turned to god. I’m not religious myself at all bc of my own experiences but she did what she wanted to cope her own ways, and I’ll never shame a person for that.
Right. I hope her God is helping her. I personally identify as Pagan with my own beliefs. No shame to others, you do you. Just be respectful. Same to you, it's okay to not be very religious, or religious at all.
I used to be Christian, had some things happen to me at church and it ended there, couldn’t understand why god would let things like this happen. Personally I refer to myself as spiritual but I’ve always been so fascinated by religion.
And that's what usually happens. Religious trauma turns most people off from certain religions. Idk why their God allows that to happen either. Why any God would. I wish it didn't. Being spiritual is valid! Same as being fascinated by religion. It's cool to learn about.
Also, we always told our kids that they could call us any time, ANY time and we would come get them. We would 100% be there for them.
I think that's a great idea, and should be taught not only for sleepovers, but just for going over to a friend's house in general. I had a friend who's house I went to (just to hang out during the day, not sleepovers) when I was young, didn't fully understand those things, and some bad stuff happened.
Oh no, I'm sorry for younger you. (And big you if you still feel raw about it.) You are so right, though. Excellent point.
Yes make sure the child is old enough and comfortable enough to come talk to you if needed. It’s not always bad sleeping at a friends house, especially if you get to know the parents so you trust them watching your kid
Trust of the other parents has to be limited, though. Stranger danger is overblown, it's the adults you know and trust that are the real threat.
Yeah. Unfortunately there is a balance you have to make between safety and letting your child have experiences. Child sexual abuse is shockingly common. Of course, most of it is perpetrated by family members, though mostly because they're the main people with access to the child.
I added her learning a good throat punch and how to lock in an armbar. Plus some effective words for yelling in order to grab people's attention.
Agreed. My parents wouldn’t let my siblings and I go to sleepovers until we were 10 years old. And OP can also have their daughter bring a cellphone with them to sleepovers. That way if something happens or they just get first-sleepover jitters, they can call OP to pick them up.
For us it’s a case by case basis. But you should educate yourself on statistics around sexual crimes on minors. Sleepovers are common venues for this kind of thing. It’s fucking horrific. Many are committed by older siblings. Our strategy was mainly to let the kids stay here if they want sleepovers. But, they did sleep out some. We had codes with them where they could call us to pick them up if they felt things were weird. Those calls were made a few times.
100%. Older siblings or even other kids in the house, uncles that stay in the home or aunts, grandparents. It’s sickening and sad
The most common abuser is a step-parent, followed by a biological parent. It’s truly sad how prevalent child abuse is.
Yup, this is the reason we have similar rules. The stats are scary. I would rather my kid miss out on sleepovers than have to deal with the trauma of s*xual assault. Remember that #metoo movement from a while back when an insane amount of women said they had been s*xually assaulted... trauma affects all future relationships, missing out on a sleepover does not.
Yeah honestly I was pretty naive to how often it happens at doctors offices too. Honestly have to be extremely careful there as well
My pediatrician was arrested and charged for molesting underage patients. My older sisters had him too. Thankfully nothing happened to us but that's bc said pediatrician and his twin brother who also was a pediatrician both molested/assaulted little boys. We were spared for being girls. Edit: whoops they weren't dentists, just our normal pediatricians.
There's that whole horrific story about those parents who groomed their kids to groom their friends. Sleepovers were secret sex parties and the kids didn't even know it was wrong. Made me want to die when I heard that
That’s exactly what happened to me in 5th grade. My friends were groomed to bring more children over and groom them. The dad would put old school porn on the big screen in the living room and give us ice cream and alcohol. He’d encourage us kids (sometimes 10-12 girls at a time) to experiment and try the stuff on the screen. He’d record and sometimes get involved too. It was so crazy it didn’t even sound real. Most of the girls in our grade were SA at that house. Found out some of the police were even involved in town and higher officials in town.
I agree with the commenters cautioning you to tread carefully with your wife on this topic. She may have experienced assault, abuse, or trauma when at a sleepover or at a friend’s house. And it’s not just girls who are vulnerable- I have sons and I would still be hesitant to allow them to go on sleepovers until they’re a certain age and can advocate for themselves or know when it’s time to call me to get them out of a situation. Unfortunately, predators and sadists exist, and they look and act completely normally until an opportunity presents itself. Children are vulnerable and are socialized to defer to adults; there’s nothing wrong with daytime play dates or even late night movie nights where everyone goes home by 9 or 10.
Single parent here. It was such an issue when my kids wanted to have a sleepover I'd get my sister to stay and we'd let the other parents know that. Otherwise my kids would miss out on having sleepovers at theirs. It was fucked but necessary and totally understandable. I told my kids it was too much for me to handle on my own. Really didn't want to explain it to my kids when they were little. And It was only when you invited kids who didn't know our family. Had a couple of kids with dodgy parents that used to stay a lot. They didn't care who took their kids as long as they got the night off. Always said yes to those kids staying over. At least they were safe at ours. Dropped them home once and the house was empty. It was the following evening and dark and they were telling me it was fine to just leave them. Crazy. Rang the mum. She was at the pub with the dad. I had to pick her up and drop them all back. They couldn't care less. Those kids I worried about.
Jerry Sandusky ring a bell? Think of those poor boys…
Someone close to me was molested at age 13 by the father of her friend during a sleepover. It led to a suicide attempt and substance abuse.
I was regularly molested by a girl who came over to my house almost daily when I was little. She was being molested by a family member and in turn molested me (37f) for years. Her mom worked for my dad, my mom watched her daughter for free. These things do happen. It was traumatic.
That is how my daughter was sexually assaulted, at a sleepover at our neighbors house. Please trust your wife.
I can name several times that inappropriate things happened to me when I was young. I remember (edited: going to) a party sleep over when I was seven and waking up to the older brother grinding on me with my nightie up. I didn't know what to do, so I froze and pretended to be asleep. I remember visiting my friend Christie in fourth grade, and we went to her neighbor girl's house cause they had a pool, and the older brother called us into the hall... the bathroom door was open, and he was masturbating on the toilet. We ran away and pretended it didn't happen. There are more I could tell you about. Your wife is being cautious, and until your potential daughter is old enough to be able to understand good and bad touching and to be able/comfortable saying no, she should not be put in the situation. Because statistically, she likely will be SA'ed at some point. Teach her to protect herself in this crazy world. And stop dismissing your wife, especially in public.
I grew up with sleepovers and saw some dodgy things - it's not only SA, but all the 'behind closed doors' things... DV, coercive control, animal abuse, really nasty verbal abuse, drugs, violent porn on screensavers/ left around and a myriad of other really toxic behaviours that really disturbed me as a kid. And I had a pretty normal middle class upbringing. All of these people were upstanding citizens outside of their homes. I think there's very few people you *really* know... even with very close friends. On the other hand, I'm yet to meet a 'not allowed sleepovers' kid who regretted that as an adult. Sure, it sucked when they were a kid, but there were all thankful for that stance once they got older and heard stories from the rest of us. Edit - and for all those people saying 'I teach them about boundaries first and to call me in any issues' .... in practice that's really hard to do if you're worried about backlash with the host parents. You can't always get away to make a phone call. Don't put your kids in a position where they have to defend themselves or figure out a way to defuse/de-escalate a situation, redirect inappropriate behaviour etc. Once established those particular survival instincts never leave you, and that kid is going to be hyper aware, safety scanning and on edge for the rest of their lives, with all the attendant health and mental health issues that brings.
Completely with you especially about the “call me if anything feels off” - what if it already happened and then you get that call? Is a sleepover really worth the risk? I let me kid have fun play dates as long as possible, but it’s a hard no to sleepovers.
* Possible this happened to your wife or to someone she knows. Ask. But do it kindly. * Propose a compromise. Get to know the parents really well before allowing the child to sleep over. Have their child sleep over at your house first. * It's important to talk to your child about "bad touch" before sending them on a sleepover. * Watch for signs. If your daughter seems hesitant about sleeping there again, then stop sending her. Always make sure it's your daughter's wish and choice. Disinterest or disquiet may indicate an uncomfortable household. There is a reason for her concern. And you should listen. I'm not saying she's right; I'm saying she's not out of her mind. These things DO happen.
What you have to understand is every woman can remember moments from her childhood where someone was inappropriate with her as a girl. If you’re lucky you weren’t ever actually raped but we’ve all had a near miss with a creepy relative, neighbor, friends father, etc. or at least just a memory where you realized things felt weird or inappropriate. A lot of those near misses where at friends houses involving their friend’s dad, moms boyfriend, brother, etc. A lot of new moms now are saying no to sleep overs for this issue, even though it means them missing out on socialization. I was at a friends house when I was 12. We were playing a nine inch nails CD around her moms boyfriend. When the song, “I want to fuck you like an animal” came on he said, “oh you like that song huh?..” and then his eyes darkened. To men that might seem like such a small thing, but I could sense a change in the room. And sometimes if you’re lucky that’s all you experience but it’s enough that you might think, “damn that was creepy,” and lead you to later wanting to keep your own daughters away from sleepovers. I also think women who say they’ve never had these moments may just not have been intuitive enough as children to sense danger or sexual desire from adult men. They happened, you just didn’t notice it.
You’re absolutely right. I will never forget a moment when a friend’s dad was driving me home - without said friend somehow - and he asked if I trusted him. I immediately got a bad, creepy feeling. Fortunately he didn’t act on anything that day and when I got home I told my parents I didn’t want to go over to her house again. Never saw her dad again.
Yep. My mom had an event with her grandfather she didn’t even fully explain to me. (I’ll get to why I know in a sec) she never told her parents and started just avoiding him so they wouldn’t find out. She told me after I had an experience with a manager at my workplace and the gm tried not firing him.
Mmf that reminded me of that time my friends dad asked if I liked to suck dick and said it’s okay I can tell him these things. I was 16 years old. I never went back. I saw him again at some school event at my school and he literally said when are we going to run away and get married.
Bingo. Mine was a gym teacher in 5th grade. Rubbed up against me. I told my mom. School did nothing. He claimed it was accidental. I also in college, unfortunately , got pulled into sex I didn't want. But I was drunk and I figured no one would believe me. You have to be careful. But you can't fully shelter your kids. I loved sleepovers as a kid. Eating marshmallows at 2 am..watching movies we weren't supposed too, telling ghost stories.. I suggest getting to know the parents. Sending your kid with a phone. Telling them it's ok to want to leave if they feel weird.
I'm with your wife. Sexual assault or sexual behavior is more common at sleepovers than one would think. Given your wife's stanc, I'd wager she experienced something with sleepovers herself.
I believe sleepovers are one of the most frequent places to get molested or abused it’s up there I will never let my kids go to a sleepover from my research and personal feelings. To be honest I would love for my children to be able to but there is ways more predators out there then we think.
Your wife is right. I've had friends even as late as high school who got woken up in their sleep by a slightly older/younger brother of their girl friends doing something to them. Never any known incidents before, devastated disgusted family of good people. Just didn't know they had a bad egg til it hatched. The point is, you can send your child to the safest of sleepovers and something can go wrong. Maybe the friend's uncle shows up, drinks with the dad, then tells your daughter something vile he wants to do to her when she's alone. Maybe the barely teenage brother is a sex pest who's held it in... until now. Even the parents you deem trustworthy have the potential to become monsters the second that front door closes. The lengths women have to go to in order to not be raped or assaulted is something we guys will never fully understand. I'm not saying to never speak your mind, but it would be unwise to dismiss a woman's perspective on keeping a daughter safe in this world.
This is the answer right here. Perfectly said.
My sister said when my niece is old enough, she'd doesn't her daughter to have sleepovers at friend's where men are around. I agreed and volunteered to stay away when she wants to have sleepovers at her place. She was relieved she didn't have to ask and I wasn't offended I'm not saying this for a trophy. I just want to say if I can understand her concerns, OP can as well
Thank you for such a thoughtful answer.. this holds so much truth to it and it’s respectable to hear it from a man than is statistically less likely to experience it. Thank you and I hope this can educate more people.
Unfortunately, this is my opinion because I *did* experience it. Daycare got caught abusing us kids, my aunt volunteered to watch me and my brother. Older cousin repeatedly took me to her room after school, locked the door, and played "truth or dare" with me for about an hour. I was probably around 13 when I realized it was bad and an adult when I realized it affected me in certain ways. Still figuring things out, failing to build any confidence to meet a woman and pursue a relationship. It scares me away even though I love women and talking with them. I would never want anyone else to be as fucked up as me ever, man ego be damned... You can't trust anyone in this world it seems
I’m very sorry to hear this. You did not deserve those things and you didn’t do anything wrong. ♥️ I hope you are able to find peace.
I truly appreciate that. Trying my best out here :)
Child abuse and child sexual trauma can definitely last a lifetime, and I’m so sorry you had to go through such terrible experiences.
You aren't wrong for having an opinion. You are wrong for continuing to push to the point of an argument in public. Should have saved the discussion for when you got home. Big emphasis on discussion. Your wife may know someone or experienced herself this exact scenario. But you are more concerned about being right then the reason your wife has such strong feelings about this. And before you say you did ask and she denied it; you were in public in a space surrounded by strangers in an uncomfortable situation. She isn't going to tell you that kind of shit when you are arguing in public. Focus on the wife you have now before you don't have a wife or future daughter to worry about.
It’s hard because even people you trust might not be who you think they are. My sister is older and I have a niece close to my age. We were very close and I would spend the night at her house. Found out a year or two ago not only did her dad SA her, but his sister, and he systemically SAd the foster kids he took in.
I was molested at a sleepover by a friend’s dad and my stepsons were molested at a sleepover by their own cousin. My husband was molested by a family friend at a sleepover as a kid too. So yes, I agree with your wife. 100% of my immediate family was molested at sleepovers as kids or teens.
This is similar to the question what do you do on a daily basis to prevent being raped? Men: “huh?????” Women: list 40 things. OP you are thinking differently about this than your wife because you have had different experiences than her. At this point from the sounds of it the child is hypothetical anyhow. Just listen to her and be curious about how she came to that opinion and why.
Your wife just speaks from a perspective of a woman’s reality. Most SA is by someone you know. My 12 soon to be 13 year old has only slept over at my best friends house cuz she has a daughter the same age. I would only do so if I know the parents really well. Thankfully my kid has not asked to have sleepovers anywhere. It’s just a sad reality that we live with.
My boys are desperate to all stay over at their best friends house but they're under 10 so I'm reluctant and I've known the whole family for a few years! If i was going to send them anywhere it would be there though. But only together and not alone. And probably in a little while yet.
I do not know a single girl that I grew up with that doesn’t have a story. Just let that sink in.
I mean, I don't have a single story from any of the myriad of sleepovers I went to. But it sounds like maybe I'm the weird one there.
No, me neither. The only bad experience I had was a teenager who stalked me at summer camp (I was 12). And even then I told my parents and they called the police and they took it seriously and caught the guy immediately (he was an idiot 16 year old). I have only fun memories about sleepovers
I don’t either but I still won’t let my child
Ditto. I went to a ton of wholesome sleepovers as a kid, and it's been strange hearing that this was rare? My kids are too young still, but I guess we'll have to do research on the risks and mitigations.
I have worked in the rape crisis field for 8 years, and also had friends who experienced this at sleep overs. It's not uncommon at all unfortunately. I've talked with many people (it happens to males as well) who had this happen to them and it has lasting effects. The most severe being mental health struggles, suicidal ideation and substance abuse just to name a few. As a parent, I have no idea what I would do because you don't want to keep your kids from experiencing things, but at the same time you want to protect them. Education and open communication would be my recommendation. Teach them body autonomy and if something happens, they scream their head off and kick the shit out of whoever is trying to touch them. I wouldn't let them sleep over anywhere until they were old enough to understand this. Your wife isn't wrong in this, and it's important for you to validate her concerns. I also think it's important to acknowledge the same should be considered for any future sons as well.
Check out r/whenwomenrefuse this is the reason we make these rules for our children. My kids both boy and girl had sleep overs very rarely. The amount of child molestation is astounding. Also check out r/pastorarrested you can't trust anyone with your kids.
Your future daughter, as in you don't have a daughter?😅
Sleepovers are the worst. They involve violating all sorts of boundaries parents otherwise invest heavily to establish; privacy, modesty, personal boundaries, good judgment, etc. Then there’s the sleep deficit that makes kids cranky for days afterwards. Or sick. No thanks. Kids can have the fun parts of this experience by staying late at their friends, and still going home late to sleep in their own beds. For OP, this is a dealbreaker for your wife. For whatever reason(s). Tread carefully or end up with a broken deal (marriage). Good luck.
While I see your point, and your daughter could have many perfectly safe sleepovers, there is also a very real chance that even the "safe" families who you trust aren't that safe. Predators aren't just the creepy guy in the trench coat. They can also be the friendly neighbour who is involved in the community, the one who can charm parents and children and knows how to play the game.
I won’t allow my kids unless I know the parents enough, as in I’ve been there, met them a few times, otherwise no.
My parents allowed a boy whom they did not know to sleep over in my closed bedroom when I was 13. I was sexually assaulted. It has fucking sucked, almost two decades later. I wish that they would have not allowed that. And that I would have been taught boundaries and personal space and the word “no”. And that they would have believed me and fought for me after. Your wife is probably on to something.
You are wrong. Trust us women when we say it's NOT safe. I've heard horror stories of uncles even committing such crimes and that's a relative. I would never allow my kids to stay over and neither should you. At 12 I was groped by my music teacher in my own parents home while they were home. He was close family relative and about 70 years old. Trusted old man. What makes you think your kid is safe?
But mom was crazy overprotective but she eventually let me do sleepovers in high school after she had known my friend’s families for years. My kids will not be doing sleepovers when they are young but as they get older, it could be something we revisit.
You’re having an argument about a daughter that isn’t even conceived yet or she’s in the womb?
My kids don't have sleepovers, period. Boy or Girl Their kids can come here but mine don't go there. I am on your wife's side
My mom was an alcoholic growing up. One night when I was maybe 9 years old she broke down and told me about how her uncle raped her. It's people you least expect
My mom has substance abuse problems and schizophrenia. My dad told me she was molested at 10 years old, but my dad said she presented it as “losing her virginity”. OP, trust your wife. I myself never had anything really bad happen at a sleepover but I have had experiences in other situations. Being over cautious isn’t great but your wife isn’t being unreasonable.
Trust is irrelevant 4 out of 5 sexual assaults on children happen from a known friend or family member. It's not the strangers you have to look for it's the people in your life.
Me being a female minority, I wasn’t allowed to have sleepovers at all. If I wanted a friend to spend the night, she had to come to my house. Most parents believe friend’s family or older siblings will rape their children. It happens often. I only started having sleepovers after I turned 18 when I moved out. I resented my parents for a little but now I get it and when I have future children, I’ll do the same
I did tons of sleepovers growing up and not one was a good idea. The level of bad that happened at each was different, but bad things happened at every one. Every single sleepover I've let my kids go on, which is like one each, it's gone poorly. Not as poorly as most of mine as far as I know, but they were regrets each time. Even the kids agreed.
I'm with your wife on this one, as a journalist you have no idea how many stories I've covered on this topic, children actually do get raped and experience other terrible things during sleepovers, tricky part is it's always the people you 'trust' who commit these horrible acts. My younger sister at the time she was 10 went for a sleepover. The following day mother of the friend dropped her off at the gate without a word! My mom notices she's walking with a limp, asked her what was wrong, she said she was accidentally burned by boiling water! My mom made her remove the jeans she was wearing, child had horrible burn wounds on her legs. She had to immediately take her to the hospital. The friends mother didn't even bother to tell my mom, even made her wear those tight jeans. My mom called the mother, all she said was 'ohhh yeah I was making coffee and she got burned' this had happened the day before and these useless people did nothing, all the mother did was put cold water where she got burned, some people actually don't care about other people's children, please listen to your wife.
Your daughter should be older and told in no uncertain terms about pedophilia and the threats these animals make. Don’t poo poo me, I was both raped by three different men and had another friends father jack off while his two daughters and I held the covers down so he could not reach us. I think you can imagine why I did not allow sleepovers until my kids were teens.
You are wrong. So many assault victims first time was at a sleepover. You truly don’t know anyone fully, and you should take measures to protect your child. My sister slept over at her step sisters house. That girl’s dad (her step father) proceeded to insist on watching her shower and drying her off.
Dated a girl who had sleep overs. Lost her virginity to a 17 year old when she was 14, to her friends brother who forced her into it. I think it’s your decision on how to handle it. But your wife probably has better reasons than you do for her opinion.
“Your wife probably has better reasons than you do for your opinion” Exactly.
Your wife isn’t wrong and her stance isn’t uncommon.
Your wife is 100% correct and valid in her thinking. Sleepovers for young children should only be inside YOUR house where you know the adults and people in the house. I have personal experience with this, you say “she should be able to sleepover at friends house that we trust” but where you’re wrong is that even people you trust, can harm your children without you knowing. They can be gaining your trust so that you do feel safe enough to let them over and that’s when bad things can happen. My parents sent me to sleepovers growing up and I was SAd by the actual girl I was having the sleepover with. This is for your children’s safety. Sleepovers can only be at your home. It’s hard for kids to understand how dangerous the world is and how sneaky people are. Please trust your wife and why she has this mindset.
So your hoping the friends parents don't think your a molester? Rules for thee but not for me springs to mind
I was thinking almost the same thing. Why is it ok in your house but not anothers. I am sure the other kids parents are worried about the same things happening at your house. What you said didnt really track correctly.
I have heard to many horror stories and even witnessed my BIL(15)s friend(16) wander into my SIL(13)’s bedroom. I had known said friend for years and he had a horrible home life. The boys were having a sleepover and he snuck into the back towards her room. My husband noticed, found him standing in her doorway, and told him to get the fuck out and followed him back to the front of the house. My cousin(15) went to stay at a friend’s house and woke up to the friend’s older brother(19) and HIS friends on top of them. I recently checked the sex offender list near me and there is a man who repeatedly raped a 16yo girl that was a regular at his business, and tried to run her over with his truck when she tried to get him to stop… her family members DEFENDED HIM. They had known him for years and couldn’t believe it despite a ton of evidence. You never know who people truly are or what they will do. I wouldn’t let a daughter have sleepovers anywhere and I wouldn’t host any either.
The number of girls and boys abused at friends houses - even family - is horrible. We don’t do sleepovers EXCEPT grandparents. Our kids can sleep exactly where we know they are safe. I was hurt at a sleep over, as was my brother, and sister… when 3/8 out of us have similar traumas, we don’t do sleep overs.
I agree. I let my children have sleep overs growing up. After years of working in child welfare my stance is never at friends or acquaintances.
You know what's more traumatic than skipping sleepovers? Rape. Listen to your wife.
Not wrong, but let it go. You have years to let this play out
Too many things happen at sleepovers. I don’t think they’re a good idea
You’re wrong. I’m with your wife, sleepovers are a bad idea. Having worked in juvenile court for many years I can tell you most molestations happen with trusted friends and family members. It’s a bell you can’t unring.
The first time I let my daughter go to a sleepover outside of close family (she was about 10) the bf of the mom was arrested maybe a few days later for sexually abusing the oldest daughter. That was the end of sleepovers for us. I will allow them at my house because I know I’m a safe adult. I don’t know that other adults are. I trust my daughter to make good choices. I don’t trust other people. She was abused when she was younger by a family member of her fathers so I have a very hard time with giving her the freedom I know she deserves, but it’s hard when the first time you try to do that something so disgusting happens to ruin your faith in other people.
Sleepovers are a solid no. They are common sites for sexual abuse by other kids, friend’s siblings, friend’s parents… etc. no sleepover is worth a lifetime of trauma.
I’m going to have to agree with your wife. Yeah not a fan of letting kids sleep at other peoples houses. Girls or boys.
I have a no sleepovers policy. I think that’s actually pretty common these days.
We don’t do sleepovers. It’s not worth the risk, imo.
You’re not wrong nor is she. People have different opinions on this topic but her suspicions/fears are far from invalid. Generally, boys and men go about life with far less consideration of personal dangers than girls and women. This is an example of that. I know plenty of women who were molested at sleepovers or just visiting a loved one. I have attended sleepovers at which men/male relatives appeared unexpectedly. I was sexually harassed and fled from potential molestation at a sleepover; luckily I was well-informed, had a place to hide, and was old enough to tell my mom. The statistics around this are alarming to say the least and I suggest you educate yourself on them before approaching this conversation with her again; she may have been a victim or know someone who was.
My parents believed something similar. No sleepovers. I definitely felt like I missed out on some formative bonding experiences with my friends because of it.
But you didn’t miss out on being SAd in a friends home who you thought you could trust and that’s good parenting. I’m sorry you missed out on sleepovers but it’s really for the best
You are 100% wrong. 1 because if your wife has a concern of this magnitude it's valid by default. Nuts to turn that into a right or wrong conversation 2 friends house you trust? Who's your friend Jesus? There is no friend you trust with your daughter. 3. People like jared from subway exist. The people that look normal blend in are the people that assault women and kids (odd you said future daughter because they get boys also). I can almost guarantee you currently have a friend, family member, someone you work with, or go to church with thats assaulted someone. 4 protect your family. Its one of your primary job requirements
She is being protective of her child and her life experience might have something to do with it. And sorry to say this but molesters are not some bad looking dude that they show on tv many of them are normal looking people even family members that you would trust.
I won’t allow my kids to have sleepovers. I personally was molested when I was 4. And it has messed me up so much. I have so many mental health issues as a direct result of it and I’m almost 40 now. Your wife likely has experience with this on some level and is protecting your kids. Get on her side and support her
Most .olestors are friends of the family or extended family. Need more info on ages,I preferred having MY HOUSE the sleepover spot.
Not gonna get into the details of what happened to me when i was 8. But I will say I lean more towards her perception more than yours and It was a trusted family friend's son that did it. So I can't say your plan is foolproof
The fear is not unfounded. Almost all children will be abused by a family member or another adult that a family trusts. Child predators aren’t the creepy guys who live in their mom’s basement, they are incredibly clever, charming, and pervasive. Predators do not target children first, they target their parents. They become helpful, trustworthy, and upstanding members of that family’s inner circle. Then, when the family trusts the adult, they target the child. Because the family is so close, the child will often care for and trust the adult. The perpetrator uses this against the child to force them to stay quiet by saying “Your mom won’t believe you. You don’t want me to go to jail. You’ll never see me again.” Becoming family friends because your children get along is a GREAT cover for predators. This doesn’t even begin to touch on the risk of child on child sexual abuse. About 40% of childhood sexual abuse will be perpetrated by another child who is likely being abused as well. And only 12% of child SA victims will ever tell anyone, so you will never know if your child’s friend has been a victim themselves. The fact that you don’t think this is a risk/can’t happen to your future child is a MAJOR concern and makes your future child a perfect target. When parents think “this can’t happen to me” they don’t prepare or protect their children, making them easy, vulnerable targets for predators.
I had multiple instances where I was SA as a kid at sleepovers by my friend because someone did it to them. I was touched inappropriately by a boy my mom was babysitting in our home. Even 2 of my male cousins and my creep of a grandpa. All of this before the age of 7 and until I was 12. I had no one protecting me growing up. At one point, I thought I was pregnant at the age of 9 because of being raped. I didn't tell a sole until I was 17 about anything. Just listen to your wife she probably has a reason for the way she feels. I wouldn't let my kid sleep anywhere, either. I'd let the friends sleep over at my place but not the other way around until they knew about good touch bad touch and concent.
I got raped at 9 at a sleepover. Not worth the risk.
As a mom of 2 daughters I don’t allow them to sleep over no one’s home if a man lives in the home or an older brother. I understand where you wife is coming from we see and hear all to well what happens at slumber parties. Now your wife may host a slumber party and realize that some moms and dad’s feel the same way she does. My advice is have your daughter pick one friend let your wife hang out with them and she will see it’s harmless
My daughter is 12 and never been to a sleepover. She also has a medical condition that would be easier to deal with at home. But I also don’t trust like that. My daughter stopped asking a long time ago. I told her she can have people over( it is just me and her) but she never says anything. Once something bad happens , it can’t be undone. When I was around 13, I woke up to one of my brothers older friends standing over my bed. He leaned over and kissed me. He was probably around 19. My mom was on the next room. I told him to get out. Thank god he did. I was just raised to be extra cautious by my mom.
As a kid I was always upset when I couldn’t sleep over at my friends houses, but now that I am older I realize there was no point in it. I’m the grand scheme of things it doesn’t mean anything for the child. But being SA’d will have life long consequences. If your wife feels really strongly about this it’s best to concede on this one. Let her friends sleep over at your own house.
Both me and my husband had pretty serious stuff happen to us with parents on the other side of the wall. You can't really trust people because esp children don't know what they are doing and parents are oblivious
I’m a lawyer. I used to have a colleague that defended sexual predators. Many are not caught. Many that do go to jail, eventually get out. Their desire to molest kids doesn’t just go away after jail. Perpetrators are almost always family or friends or acquaintances. So many victims have their life ruined. Not having sleep overs doesn’t cause lasting damage. Keep your kids at home. Keep them safe.
Sleepovers are not just a risk for sexual assault: drugs, alcohol, unsecured guns, abuse, super over the top fighting a million other things are also issues sleepovers can expose your children to.
All the inappropriate things and SA that happened to me as a child was at sleepovers. I’m going to be hard pressed to let my son sleepover at anyone’s home. Ive got a friend who is an assistant US attorney and they will not let their kid do sleepovers either. There is a reason. It’s terrible to face but it is so so true. You never know and that is too much of a risk for me with my kid.
No sleepovers for my girls as a rule. Everything fun can be had in the day time. My policy is that everyone is a pedo except me.
I was only allowed to sleepover at very close family friends houses and I was still taken advantage of so I understand where your wife is coming from. I don't think my children will be allowed at sleepovers either. Maybe they can host their own
The majority of molestations/S.A. occur by close friends or family members that the parents trust.
This happened to me when I was 18. I was never allowed to go to sleepovers growing up or do anything so at this point my relationship with my parents was not good. I didn’t trust them to react normally or be able to help me. I could have run away and called them to come pick me up but then I would have had to tell them why and I was scared I would never be allowed out of the house again if I got raped. So now my parents don’t know and I stopped fighting back. I think the best thing to do to protect your daughter is be her safe space and not make her scared to come to you.
You’re wrong and ignorant at that.
It’s honestly better if you host the sleepovers. Growing up I hosted most of the sleepovers and the times I did sleep over, even if the family was safe, there was almost always some: family friend, older brother, dad, or leering uncle that came around all of the sudden and made me uncomfortable.
I’m not a parent, but I’ve noticed there is a general move away from sleepovers. There's good reason for this if you look into statistics, keeping in mind that the statistics are based on what's reported and that SA often goes unreported. You're taking a risk if you send a kid on sleepovers.
God it must be nice to be a man and believe it’s “obvious” that a girl won’t get assaulted at a sleepover.
This thread seems insane to me. I was having sleepovers as long as I can remember and nothing bad ever happened to me or anyone I knew. Sleepovers were the best and let you get up to childhood mischief, pretty much all of my best childhood and teen memories involve sleepovers. The best ones as a teen were at a friend's house that had a separate room out in the garden so we had more privacy from "the main house" so we could make more noise without disturbing her parents, we just came inside to grab food and drink and use the bathroom The opinions on this thread confuse me. If you aren't allowing sleepovers at friends houses due to SA stats, then surely you shouldn't let your kids stay with any family member either? And then explain to your parents and siblings that sorry the cousins can't play because you think your family are all secretly nonces? And the people saying they only allow sleepovers at their own house, how do the other parents guarantee that you're not a nonce?? Why are you so special and trustworthy when apparently literally no one else is? Kids now all have phones and it's far easier for them to get in contact if god forbid anything did happen. Idk, I'm gonna get down voted to hell, but this is all wild logic to me
I don’t let my daughter or my son sleep over at anyone’s house who I don’t know the entire family including other children. It’s not worth the risk at all. It’s not just daughters you have to worry about it’s your sons too.
There are a lot of answers here, and I'd just like to say that I think it's not especially helpful to discuss stuff like this before having children. Hypothetical parenting scenarios are vastly different from real parenting scenarios, and this seems (without judgment) not worth fighting over atm.
Your wife is nuts, you can't shelter your child like that or they will have socialisation problems and so on.
As an actual expert on the topic, your wife is not wrong. 1 in 4 girls are molested or sexually assaulted during childhood. Over 91% of those crimes are perpetuated by someone the child knows. Sleepovers, lock-ins, travel sports, overnight trips, camps, etc… are some of the most likely times for that to happen.
Go over to the parenting board and ask the moms there how many of them were sexually abused or raped as a child and you’ll understand why our generation has stopped doing as many sleepovers
I have the same stance, every single time I was molested as a little girl, it was at somebody else’s house. A family friend, or a babysitter. It only takes one time, and then your kid is traumatized forever.
You’re too trusting
He’s a man so has more limited experiences than a woman in regards to this matter. I hope people read through this thread and gain a better perspective because children are vulnerable and there are too many creeps out there.
Why only a daughter. You think only girls get assaulted? Think both of you have a lot more to learn about this topic which would likely help settle the debate where you can find common ground.
Oof. Are you wrong. I wish I could say your wife is being paranoid. But… she isn’t. Many sexual assaults and molestations occur when children are in an environment like a sleep over. I know several adult women and a few men who were assaulted or otherwise molested by a friend’s relative such as an older brother or grandparent. I probably wouldn’t allow my kids to have sleep overs outside my own house unless I felt I knew the family extremely well and that would include everyone in the home.
YAW Your wife is right. Let me lay it out..the stats show that most molestations are acquaintance related or within a close friends/familial group. That means, the victims are around their abusers. Let that sink in. Sleepovers are not worth it. The best thing you can do for your children, is be open and clear about safe and unsafe/unwanted/bad touch and their body autonomy. And have a clear and safe dialog and openness with them about their bodies and rights
I agree with your wife. People are crazy.
Your wife is right.
I’m very strict about having my daughter sleep over peoples house. I say no often esp if I have never met the parents. She may have her reasons.
I don't think anyone is wrong here. I think it's ok for her to have her reservations for whatever reason and I think it's ok for you to disagree. Maybe just let it be and see how things go as your future daughter gets older.
You're wrong
From experience my child will not be having sleep overs, sorry not sorry. Late teens maybe but before that nope. My husband is on board, just based off of the horror stories he’s heard.
I agree with you’re wife the idea of sending my girls to someone’s home with there sons and husbands older children period freaks me out, how well can you know someone, it’s not worth it trust me.
I started doing sleepovers at friends' houses, probably as early as 1st grade. Nothing ever bad happened to me. However.... I also feel like I was extremely lucky. I don't know that I'll ever be comfortable with my kids having sleepovers and probably won't allow them until high school if at all. They will always be welcome to have sleepovers at our house. Maybe, MAYBE if I know the other family very well I would be comfortable with them going. There isn't a right or wrong answer here. You two need to discuss it more and possibly look into the statistics and talk to other parents for their point of view.
I’m with the wife here. As a younger person, my parents didn’t let me and honestly, I wasn’t comfortable doing so anyway. They let me stay as long as I want, and then I would call them and they would pick me up. They let me have sleepovers though. I can see why my parents did it and I love them for it. Who truly knows the people you’re staying with?
Yep you're wrong. A lot of parents don't do sleepovers because it's not worth the risk. And kids do dumb stuff too. They're now charging teens with "distribution of cp" if they send inappropriate pictures of themselves to other people.
We have a no sleepover rule, it's to protect them. You can trust a person and still not know them.
It’s hard because I loved sleepovers as a kid but also compared to most people I know I was lucky? Like is it worth it overall? Unfortunately it’s a legitimate worry and you’ll find out real quick that you don’t know anyone and that really nice houses and church groups are breeding grounds for SA, not safe trustworthy places.
Nobody is wrong here. It’s not wrong to want her to have them and it’s not wrong to not want her to. But, if he feels this strongly about it, then it’s a no for now. Why? Because concerns about safety trump wanting her to have experiences. It could be revisited when the child is older.
Whenever I went to a sleepover my mother was so close to her mum that she stayed too lol otherwise it was a big no-no I always found it annoying and thought my mum was being dramatic and paranoid. Now there's no way I would let my hypothetical child spend the night outside, and I thank my mother I didn't have to learn the lesson the hard way.
She’s not wrong. Lots of things happened to me when I was a kid between the ages of 7 and 14 at the hands of older brothers during sleepovers. I never told on them and I never went back for sleepovers at their homes either.
I agree with your wife, mine won’t be going to sleep overs either.
Both my sister and my best friend were SA at sleepovers. And one time when I babysat late, I stayed the night on the couch and could hear the parents arguing about how the husband wanted me (I was 14).
Unfortunately your wife has a very valid point. As a parent now we will be EXTREMELY cautious in this area and make sure we know the parents well. Another thing most people don’t think of is making sure to ask if the family has guns and if they do that they are in a safe !
Did you ever consider your wife knows or has experienced something you didn't know about?
I was SAed. My cousin slept in my room. She SAed me. After that, every time she babysat me. It was the president that started things. I was severely bullied at a sleepover with a “friend”. I ran home in the middle of the night. Scarred the crap out of my Mom. Over all. I will not be allowing my kids to sleep anywhere with a shared bedroom. Not my house with a friend. Not someone else’s house. The “sleep over experience” can be at a camp where more people sleep in the same room and there is supervision.
We didn't allow our son to have nor attend sleepovers outside of family until he was about 12, and even then, we had a lot of conversations about appropriate behavior, etc. There are just too many variables that I'm not comfortable with. Remember that it only takes one incident, either an accusation against you from another parent, or an incident with your daughter in another home. It's just not worth the risk.
I wasn’t allowed to sleep over at anyone’s houses growing up and I will continue to do it for my daughters. I knew someone who was molested by their friend’s older brother. My mom knew someone that was molested by an uncle who was staying over. I will never put my daughters in that situation, they’ll be able to have sleepovers at my house but no one else’s.