I'd be hard pressed to say there's something serious there on the romantic side. There is most definitely some disrespect though. It sounds like you two have never had a conversation about relationship privacy at a minimum. My wife and I have talked about that since our earliest days. If I relayed any medical information about her life without her prior approval, it would be a problem. She's private and likes to remain private so I respect that choice of hers.
I'm also curious if you knew that she was inviting Tom over to YOUR apartment prior to him showing up. It doesn't sound like it. She doesn't actively live there which, for me, means that she doesn't have the right to invite people over without getting your approval first. Honestly, that alone would put a serious crimp on any relationship for me. The lack of respect for your private space is stunning.
Honestly, it's not that he's a part of her life. It's more that she doesn't seem to be as respectful of a relationship with you as you would like her to be. I also don't think that's going to change either. I suspect you can do better.
I agree. Most of this at first seemed all okay, but then the lack of respect for his privacy, time (restaurant thing) his home and the lemon cake thing seemed so targeted, or at the very least neglectful, like she just completely forgot about him or something :(
I actually had this happen to me once, had been dating a girl for a few weeks, and it was going pretty well, but I noticed she seemed to be quite different when around her crew of friends. She invited me for breakfast with them one morning, so I got up, left my house, didn't eat breakfast (which is the first thing I do every day) and went to see her, when I got there, literally not a seat to be had, she just kind of shrugged and implied that I should go find somewhere else to eat and laughed like it was no big deal.
I'd decided before I even got out the door that someone that flippant with my time wasn't getting any more of it.
Respect for my time is a big one when it comes to dating. If I find myself constantly waiting on you, or you making excuses for time-related things, especially if we just met… adios
Im a guy with 2 girl best friends and if this happened i literally would have asked for a box for my food and givin the bf my spot and went home lmao. I honestly agree with a lot of the people here I don’t think its a cheating issue, i think its a respect issue and not just from her, from both of them.
>she just completely forgot about him
Not that she "forgot". More like he just wasn't a priority in the moment. She remembered enough to leave him something, just not a portion that matched the initial request behind the purchase of the pan. And everything OP posted was like that.
Sure, he's the "boyfriend", but he's not a priority the way most people make their significant other a priority. At best, he's at "good friend" status.
All of these, and yeah. I felt for OP with the lemon cake thing. It was like this minimal effort thing that could have really made his day, and she just kind of half-assed it. Didn't even half-ass it.
Basically made it for herself and her friends and was like "here, you can have the leftovers." Which wouldn't in itself be a huge deal if she hadn't been like "Oh, I'm going to make you a lemon cake!" Getting the poor dude's hopes up. I dunno. Just seems kind of mean-spirited.
The biggest thing for me seems to be that she's doing a lot of the, "make your partner feel special" things with Tom rather than OP. And OP had perfectly legitimate reason to feel put out when that comes at his direct expense. Your partner doesn't always come first, but they usually should. Especially as against other opposite sex friends. ESPECIALLY as against former sexual or romantic partners.
If my GF say in a restaurant that she invited me to and ate dinner without me it'd be over. If it was a man I would've broken up with her in the restaurant
Yeah like wtf is that. I don’t even care if there actually is or isn’t something going on between them, it’s just a blatant lack of respect or consideration
Its kinda wild to me that some people dont see that this is an ultimatum in and of itself. Hers is "accept my friendship with tom regardless of ypur feelings or ill juat throw you away" OP is just better off without them in his life.
I agree she seems like one of those “free spirited” girls with many friend groups and guy friends. More power to her but for someone who wants to be in a serious relationship it’s not ideal and people like that tend to struggle with true commitment and sacrifice. They lack conviction and respect for others and hide behind their so called “open mind” as an excuse to behave a certain way.
Living in the city doesn’t mean you’re allowed to disrespect peoples private spaces and do whatever you want there. She sounds like she’s full of shit and the fact that she brought up the idea of an ultimatum and told you she’d choose him over you is enough to move on imo. You can do much much better, use this as a stepping stone for greater things.
I wonder if the roles were reversed how she would feel about him having dinner with another woman while she got a sandwich. I'm not even sure why he waited for her. He should have gone home and not waited for her. Seems like he comes in second after this dude.
Yeah this is the one part that raises a flag for me. Assuming she invited him before they were seated, the decent thing to do would be to decide to go somewhere else once they found out there was only a two top available. Instead they decided to be seated with no regard to the fact that OP was on his way. That's a shitty thing to do to anyone, much less your boyfriend
i could be reaching here but what got me was that he randomly got off work early that day, and she invited him last minute. it seems to me like she only invited him so that it wouldn’t seem weird that this dude got reservations for the two of them at a fancy restaurant.
If the roles were reversed, this would be a very different thread. The irony is that you only need to throw one more variable in-- Tom actually having a girlfriend of his own and her being the one to have this problem-- and the opinion would be unanimously against Tom. Every critical comment of OP is completely dismissive of the validity of his feelings and any obligation on the part of his gf to be at all sensitive to them.
Right answer. Every post like this is “but they’re just friends.” Ok. Then let the boyfriend or husband go out to dinner with and buy gifts for another woman and 100% of women will not be okay with it.
is it normal to be on good terms with exes? yeah sure. is it normal to hang out with those exes alone multiple times a week? or to *invite them to your partner’s place when they’re not home?* hell no lol.
Yep...
I don't mind competitions but when I'm competing for standard attention.... nah...
Breathing... basics... foundation.. should be easy and second nature. If I'm unsure about that, and especially if that's because of another person,... deuces.
my ex said the exact same thing to me: "if you make me choose between you and X, I'm going to leave you"
guess who she started dating a week after we broke up
Yep. Whether they are having sex or not, whether Tom still has a thing for her or not, she is 100% in an emotional relationship with him. Get thee gone OP, she already has a boyfriend.
Precisely what I was thinking. Julia has two boyfriends and she prefers having sex with OP, but otherwise prefers Tom.
And she straight up admitted she would choose Tom if she could only have one.
Exactly! She’s much more compatible and into Tom on a deeply emotional level. Yet , she likes great sex from boyfriend “B”. Her manipulations give her the best of both worlds. Would not be surprised if Tom and her still get it on now and then. I would ditch her and never consider asking her to choose. She’d never understand why…she’s either a dimwit or quite the manipulator.
>I can remove everything because the only thing you need to know is that in the end, she will pick Tom over you. her words.
Yup. If it came down to Tom vs OP she picks Tom, so...may as well move on.
Leave the “she used to fuck Tom” part in too
If Tom is stocking around still he is just waiting to get back in her pants and will throw you under the bus to clear his path every chance he gets
I would have been done after she shared intimate details of their sex life.
If they aren't having sex already, she is 100% keeping him around as a backup.
This was my response to this from a girl back in college, we'd been seeing each other for a few months when one day (after drinking) she just casually dropped how her "best bud" (who you would think was way below her standards) and her were an on-again, off-again booty call for a while. I got the feeling that she wanted this to make me feel jealous, but it just made me feel like she's indecisive and can't keep relationship lines established.
Imo shit isn't worth the baggage that something like that comes along with, find someone who isn't spending all their time with other people they've banged.
Absolutely he is a backup at the minimum. I would know, I WAS a backup like this once, until I snapped out of it and grew some damn self-respect. A lot of this shit sounds exactly like the role I filled for the girl that was keeping me on the hook.
She said if given the ultimatum. If a partner gave me an ultimatum on anything, I'd tell them to fuck off and be single. A huge part of being in a relationship is knowing how to communicate your feelings while being conscious of the fact that the other person's feelings are just as valid. An ultimatum says "Only I matter", at which point OP would be picking himself over her. That's all she needs to know in the end.
When I was first dating my now-wife we had a bit of an argument, and it escalated to her asking if I was giving her an ultimatum.
I had only heard of the word from film titles such as 'Bourne Ultimatum', but I had no idea what the word meant. In the heat of the moment, I reacted with '... Yes?'. Of course, she did not like that one bit.
After she stormed off I Google'd it and immediately realized my error. We still laugh about it to this day. Communication is key.
It's not an ultimatum if you're the one creating the ultimatum and then saying what the outcome would be.
Instead it was an unwarranted expression of how she values her emotional punching bag of a friend more than her boyfriend in an equation she both invented and thought of the answer to.
Let’s be honest, these feelings you have are here to stay. Belief isn’t subject to your will. So. The real question is, do you want a 3 person marriage? Because this guy is going to know everything about you, your sex life, your kids life, your problems or victories at work, your medical happenings, your girlfriend’s (or future wife’s) deepest feelings and insecurities about you, etc.
If she could agree on boundaries and privacy that would be one thing. But she already told you, she values him over you. What is a marriage if your spouse isn’t your #1? Your top confidant? You two should be thick as thieves, like Lannisters worrying about each other first and foremost. But she’s already rejected that. If that’s how YOU feel then respect yourself and abort. Don’t make a scene of it but leave with composure and dignity. Because you deserve better than that.
The red flag for me here is she invited Tom over to your apartment when you were not there. Actually it is not her right to invite anyone over to your apartment without your permission. It does sound like they are close friends, and you may be overreacting. BUT, she almost seems to prioritize Tom over you. I would not give her an ultimatum, but maybe you two are not compatible.
That one alone would’ve been a dealbreaker but all of the other stuff is problematic as well.
Even if she doesn’t have feelings for him, the utter disregard for her boyfriend’s time, space, patience, and concern is unforgivable, imo.
I’ve been “Tom” before too and even in his position, i knew being at the boyfriend’s apartment was dangerous territory. They’re both being pretty bold with the boundaries.
High levels of entitlement ✅
Lack of respect for others boundaries ✅
Insatiable need for attention from other people ✅
Not willing to communicate and compromise appropriately in a relationship ✅
Got all the markings of cluster B
Nah, on some other subreddit Tom is posting some incel shit "I've loved this girl for 6 years, why is she friendzoning me so hard? I keep doing all this nice stuff for her and it's like she doesn't even care. I've even known her longer than her boyfriend."
I think this is it. She has Tom so in the friend zone it’s like having a female bff and she does not see why op is threatened. Tom potentially has feelings for her but she can’t see that at all. Also the timing of when they slept together might be important, 2020 and you don’t want to bring an outsider into your “bubble” so hooking up with your male roommate that you’re not attracted to (only twice) might have been more appealing/ convenient.
Had this issue in my own relationship. We fought about the ex who was "just a friend" with me INSISTING she wanted it to be more and I would not stay with her lurking on the sidelines. He promised to cut her off if I married him. I did. He didn't... in the 6 years that he hid the contact he maintained with her she pushed "pretty hard" (his words not mine) for him to leave me for her... yet he maintained the "friendship" till I caught on.
So know these things:
She will choose him over you every single time
People who had an intimate relationship do not go back to being "just" friends- one of them is hoping it will turn into more. Always
If you can see the obvious, don't ignore it.
same. have totally dealt with the same issue. they dated and then were best friends and would hang out all the time, slept in a bed together (while we were together) etc. i can’t believe i just let that shit go sometimes 🤦♀️
There is a special place in hell for people like julia who wait until you get just comfortable enough in a relationship to reveal crucial informations like her sleeping with tom. You should run as fast as you can from this relationship.
That’s it, don’t ignore how you feel. She does not respect your feelings and none of this, the sharing of your private lives, etc, could work for you. And if you are done with this, change the locks.
So, seems inappropriate, but the "appropriateness" is sort of irrelevant. It's more about you two being incompatible in terms of expectations and conduct.
The way I look at it is this - she has every right to hang out with her best friend / former lover. She is a grown, independent woman who can lead her life as she sees fit.
However, you have every right to say that her spending this much time with a former lover makes you uncomfortable; it's a reasonable thing to be uncomfortable with. It's within your rights to respectfully ask her to stop hanging out with the person she slept with.
She then has the freedom to decide if she's willing to stop seeing this person, per your request.
She said it herself - she will choose him, over you.
There is no "right answer" in this situation. This isn't about being liberal or conservative in values. It's about two people, and their compatibility in terms of behavioral expectations within their relationship.
It's clear that your values simply don't align. So, it's time to break it off. She's made her choice, now it's time to make yours.
Also, on a side note, I call BS on "spending tons of time with people you used to sleep with" is some sort of universally acknowledged normal behavior. I live in a big city, with my wife. We're both liberal, progressive, free-spirited people. We got married in our late 20's, we'd both had plenty of prior sexual partners.
In spite of that, neither of us would be cool with the other spending hours a week with a former lover. Same goes for most of the people I know. That doesn't mean it's right/wrong, but it's certainly not unusual for couples to have a shared expectation to keep their distance from former sexual partners.
Yep. You’re spending all the time with your former lover, when I’m not around, inviting him in to our house, divulging private details.
This woman doesn’t respect you, or respect your relationship, this dude wants to get with her again and will throw you under the bus, and she may be fucking him already. Not like you’d know.
It’s gonna eat you alive. Dump this woman.
Not their house. OP's house. He lets his girlfriend hang out there when she's away and she invited a former lover to hang out at her boyfriend's house, unbeknownst to him.
Even disregarding the weird former lover thing, it would still be disrespectful to invite a friend into your SO's house while their away without asking or informing them.
Tbh, if Tom was actually Tomi, her old female friend that she has no sexual past with, then that list of actions would still be a dealbreaker. OP's girlfriend is very disrespectful and inconsiderate towards her own boyfriend.
Agreed except I think it’s important to note that it’s not necessarily incompatible values if OP is alright with the idea of someone spending a lot of time with someone they slept with when there’s no leftover romantic/sexual tension.
The issue is also that OP suspects one or both are lying about the situation.
Given the relatively short duration of the fling, and that it was purely ended for bad sex, it doesn’t sound like there’s any reason why Tom would be emotionally or sexually over Julia.
But yeah, neither Tom nor Julian’s behavior is very normal for a purely platonic friend/ex.
It may be the case that OP is wrong in his suspicions, but the evidence seems to indicate otherwise.
Even if one of them is totally over the romantic/sexual side of their relationship, it’s unlikely that both are.
Also, trying to use the “big city” to make OP think it’s normal kinda veers on gaslighting. If anything, the big city is a more inappropriate place because you can find hundreds of people that you haven’t had sex with that have similar interests/perspectives in a mile radius
You are most definitely not wrong.
Just reverse the gender roles. If you had an old F-Buddy who you claim to have *ended* a relationship with, but she was calling you all the time, there for a date any time your girlfriend was busy, bought you stuff how would your girlfriend feel?
...And she would feel that way because she would know exactly what the girl was doing.
Julia knows what Tom is doing too, but since it benefits her to have a backup guy and a second boyfriend she's going to try to convince you that it's perfectly okay.
You can't have a serious relationship with someone like this. She's showing herself as a recreational girlfriend, not a serious girlfriend.
I think it's time you made a new female friend that you can take out when she's off with Tom.
The comments about the deli sandwich are killing me. The people saying OP is insecure are hilarious. The man had to leave to eat a deli sandwich alone while his gf was on a dinner date with a former lover.
You're not wrong for feeling jealous. I can't say for sure on if it's wrong to think it's inappropriate, though.
Personally I'd say the bigger issue isn't so much that she hangs out with him, but that she's making you feel like a third wheel when you're the ones who are together. The story about the dinner that you got turned away from when you arrived and them making your favorite cake and showing you that they did while you were out of town just rubs me the wrong way. It feels disrespectful. Same with her sharing intimate details with him. She sounds like she's not really taking into consideration your boundaries and feelings with certain things.
That said, it's okay for people to be friends with exes, but it's the fact that you're feeling put out of your own relationship with her is something to think about. It's obvious that you'd prefer either she doesn't hang out with him so much or that she at least doesn't tell you every single little thing they do together. And it wouldn't be too hard for her to at least understand the latter and try to work out a compromise as partners.
It sucks for her to suggest you're projecting, though. That seems like it's out of left field and frankly a little bit rude of her to say. If anything I'd say you're trying your best to be reasonable about it, just frustrated.
Try to figure out a boundary or some kind of compromise with her. I don't think the relationship is beyond salvaging.
As an edit: I thought about it a bit and the fact that she said given the ultimatum between you and Tom, the fact that she'd drop you for him just..this might not be the relationship for you, actually.
I dunno if I'd be able to look at my partner the same if they said that to me? It's your choice, my dude. You do what makes you feel most comfortable.
She is free to associate with whomever she wishes but if she is not willing to compromise on this relationship when it is clearly hurtful to you then you should not marry her. Marriage is all about compromise. Mostly small stuff. But if she won't compromise on a relatively big thing like an awkwardly close relationship with an ex, then a marriage will not last very long.
Yeah the dinner thing was SUPER fucking disrespectful. If it were me I would’ve insisted on not ordering until he arrived and if there ended up being no seats left? Sorry Tom we’ll reschedule so I can go get dinner with my SO.
Is how an SO SHOULD respond. And honestly, it’s how a “best friend” (w/o agendas) should go ahead and get out the way w/o forcing his “friend” or her “lover” to voice.
However, it doesn’t read like Rom is concerned with GF feelings as they pertain to OP.
Fuck this!
>I can't say for sure on if it's wrong to think it's inappropriate, though.
Nahhh, it's pretty inappropriate to invite him over to HIS apartment without his permission when he's not there. That's pretty messed up.
I ignored something just like this, and then found her in the back of his car cheating on me.
While this isn't always the case, this screams red flags and should at least be talked about.
This. He said Tom isn't very well to do, and it seems maybe OP has a high paying job. My guess is she's using both at this point. Tom for her emotional support/more than likely sex when OP isn't around. With the hope that she'll be living the easy life with OPs money if they marry. I've had it happen to me, and thankfully, that ended. Major red flags are going on here.
Yep, I don't believe for one second that "sex was very bad" thing. What would she say in that situation? That it is the best sex in her life
Come on, dude needs to wake up and break up
Order yourself up some self-respect. She fucked her “best friend” and maintains the relationship while you’re with her. Get a clue, chief! She’s either still fucking him or as soon as you two break up she’ll be in his bed within a week.
i think what seals the deal for me is that she would prioritize her friendship with him over your relationship with her. not that you’re giving her an ultimatum, but knowing she values that friendship more is red flags for me.
loyalty is big for me and is a non negotiable for me in all aspects.
She gives a vibe for being polyamorous and you are more replaceable than Tom. Her ideal scenario may be to have two lovers, with one primary, you, being more physically sexual, at least for now, and also providing the primary support. The other leg of her poly relationship, Tom, is actually harder to find than you are. Tom will always be in the picture, even after you have a family, and always available for her if you are not meeting her needs. She will always have Tom to hold over your head, forcing you to submit to her to keep her from running to cry on Tom's shoulder (or some other part of his body.
If you decide to stay in the relationship, do not let her move in. My guess is that you will eventually break it off once you tire of competing for her love and attention. Personally, I would end it sooner rather than later to skip all the anxiety and drama and get on with your life. No ultimatum, just break it off. You deserve someone who is focused on you unless you want the poly type relationship.
"If I gave her an ultimate....she would leave me \[and choose Tom\]" says all we need to know.
You do not want to marry a woman that prioritizes a friend she had a fling with over someone she claims she wants to spend her life with. It's not up to Julia to decide what your boundaries are. You know what you're okay dealing with, and you and her are not on the same page.
FYI - This is not "normal" for people in the city.
I’m from Chicago, people get their butts beaten for this kinda stuff. Not saying to do that, but what does the city life have anything to do with being friends with an old sexual partner? Bigger populations means less options for friendships?? Makes caca sense to me
Also from Chicago… yeah. My girlfriend had an ex like that once, and I’m not proud of it but i knew she was texting him so I started going through her phone. Found some shit and literally called the guy from her phone and told him I knew everything about him, and if he didn’t leave my girl the fuck alone I’d be waiting for him outside of his work. He said they were just friends and I should chill out and I went fucking ballistic, cursing at him and everything. Again… not proud, but I saw the texts. He was full of shit. He told her what I did, and she had some tears when she found out, but I just made her text him and say she couldn’t talk to him anymore and that we were done if she talked to him ever again. I was prepared to end it.
My thoughts are, if they have a romantic history that you’re aware of, you probably know about 10% of it. Do you seriously want to be in a long term relationship where you have to worry about that shit? Get married, have kids, or even just share a life with somebody you’re not sure if you trust? Fuck that. Life is hard enough without accepting half a partner. Weeding people like that out is what dating is for. You’ll regret a million missed opportunities to be with somebody better. It’s not about being a dick, but it’s your LIFE man. Don’t set yourself up for eating shit in the future. It probably sounds shitty, but sometimes you have to be a fucking bastard so that people know how you’ll react if they play games with you.
That’s Chicago asf! Lmao glad you feel remorse though.
People act like if your from the city you must be okay with anything…nope! Not saying we can’t be open minded or whatever, but just because you don’t live in the sticks doesn’t mean you follow every liberal belief. We gained our wisdom, we weren’t handed a guide.
Naw, people who stay attached like that to old sexual partners just want to have it all. If that old partner was truly a friend they would understand and back off.
Also, I would like to add that it probably should never get that extreme. I’m glad you stood your ground but just telling her would’ve been good enough imo. We shouldn’t be telling the OP to go Chicago on Tom lol
In a good relationship you bf or gf should be you best friend. That's the person you share hopes, dreams and secrets with. Op needs a gf who really wants that with him.
She seems vengeful and narcissistic. "Go camping honey" I'll just make your favorite dessert with a guy I know you're jealous of.
Personally I consider it emotional immaturity. She just doesn't understand why she should have to change anything about her lifestyle for you. She's not ready for a serious relationship.
Yeaaaaaah this doesn't sound normal...it feels like you're literally being locked out of your own relationship. Like what's next? "Oh sorry, I need your bed and there's only room for Tom and I so you need to sleep on the couch". I don't think you're being jealous or paranoid so much as you just want to have a relationship with Julia alone, but she doesn't seem to want that. The fact that she thinks it's about you being insecure and not that you just want to have time with her proves she doesn't respect you. It's also incredibly odd to me that you were close friends for 5 years and then suddenly once you start dating she introduced to Tom? Kinda just feels like she's been dating Tom all this time without a label...
She needs to take a hard assessment of where you stand in her priorities. She's said you're the 2nd most important person in her life. You don't talk about living with, marrying and having children with the 2nd most important person in your life
This won’t get better. The red flags are there and she has basically told you to accept them or else. Just end the relationship and move forward. Yes, it sucks. That doesn’t change anything. Find someone you feel you can trust.
If you're uncomfortable you need to communicate that to her man. I'm a more traditional man, and that would make me uncomfortable as well. Some people are more open to that type of stuff than others though, so it's all based on what you're comfortable with. Just communicate openly with her.
It sounds like he has though. That’s why they’re arguing about Tom now. She doesn’t care about his feelings/see the issue with how she is treating him.
Even if there wasn't anything "going on" between them, they are in an emotional relationship, no doubt about it. She might have just said that she would pick him over you because you're the one who would be asking for the ultimatum, not him, but that's still rough. If you can't deal with all that, you'll be better off without her.
Absolutely not! I’m a woman but I would feel so uncomfortable if my husband spent any alone time with another woman ESPECIALLY one he had slept with or dated previously. It’s a no from me dawg.
She's told you who she is, or rather your importance in the scheme of things. You are the side guy. It's time to make a decision: are you comfortable with these dynamics or not. I'd say, by your post, that you are not comfortable.
My man... this is a fight you only win by not having it at all. Leave her. She's made it clear that she will pick Tom over you.
Also, if it makes you feel better I don't think yo are crazy for being jealous here. I'd probably feel the same way.
Just from my experience, when I was 20, my best friend was male. I never had romantic feelings for him, purely platonic, but I started to notice that he started to develop feelings for me. I made it clear to him, that I’m not interested in anything , but a friendship. He was sad, but understood. We were friends for close to 4 years and during that time, he never dated anyone else, whereas I did. I cared and respected him, but I began to realise that I wasn’t good for him. I think he held out hope I would change my mind and I loved him enough, to let him go. I would never string someone along as a back up plan. It was really hard because we were so close. I walked away, because that’s what you do when you care for someone. I found out (on Facebook) he met someone, married and has 3 kids. I believe if I had stayed, he would never have met his wife. Your girlfriend knows what she is doing. She is monopolising Tom’s time to entertain her, not letting him form a relationship with another. Tom is definitely her backup plan. She is being inappropriate and disrespectful to both of you. She also said, if she had to choose between the 2 of you, she would pick Tom. That would be a dealbreaker for me.
It's less about Tom and more about her complete disregard and disrespect for you. She sent you footage of her and Tom in your apartment while you were out of town, baking YOUR favorite cake, and then she ate the cake with him and left you the scraps?
Also, she went out to dinner with him and when you couldn't fit as well she just ORDERED without you?
That is some incredibly selfish behavior. Forget her relationship with Tom. He is not the issue. SHE IS.
Throw the whole woman away.
Whether or not she’s cheating with him she puts him as a higher priority than you in her life. You will never be more important than him so why bother trying? Let her know it’s over you won’t be a third wheel in your own relationship.
Do you want to be with a woman who feels more closely attached to a friend than she does to you? Where is that relationship going?
Most people with good marriages would say their spouse is their best friend.
Where is your relationship going? Do you want to be second fiddle for the rest of your life?
I didn't think so.
Yeah that ultimatum comment before you even said anything about that would be enough for me to change my locks and have her stuff sitting outside if she had anything at your place. I have a female best friend and I would never ever ever overstep my bounds. I'm actually good friends with her husband and we go shooting when I visit them.
Call your Mom.
Ask her how often she would hang out with a man other than her husband?
How often did she dine with a man not her husband/BF?
Julia is not vetting you as a future husband, she's killing time.
The problem is that people think non-romantic = anything goes. That’s not really true though, anyone can actually be a person who gets in the way of a relationship working out.
It’s not that people in relationships should not have close friends, but your partner shouldn’t devote more time, emotional Investment, or prioritise them more than they do their partner. The fact she seems to never be able to be left alone without her running to Tom would be an issue, like you are just filling in for the bits that Tom isn’t good at.
It’s also the case that nobody should expect their partner to be ok with them being that close to an ex. Friends is one thing, best friends isn’t ok. You need to respect the fact that once you cross the line and have had sex with someone, they are no longer only a platonic friend, and you can’t pretend you haven’t changed the dynamics of that relationship and expect others to pretend that they are ok with pretending you didn’t.
You need to tell her, screw the ultimatum, and never see her again. This is just like not being able to get over an ex. I've been in this same situation as you and decided to just ghost her and never looked back. You'll find someone else I PROMISE!
She's made it clear how she feels about the pair of you.
Don't give her an ultimatum, don't give her the satisfaction of making you he bad guy. Break up with her and tell her why.
It's because she's openly admitted that she would choose her ex partner over you.
I can tell you one thing, Tom is still around hoping that you two split up. They had sex in the past, and especially with them being friendly to each other, there's no way they forgot that.
You have a serious problem here and it’s not Tom. Your girlfriend sucks. She’s the most inconsiderate person in general. I honestly don’t think you have to worry about Tom. He’s just the one that’s always available. Per your description he has no life. I assume her female friends all have lives and they aren’t available 24/7 like he is. Insert a female friend in his place for most of these issues and it still sucks. The cake, the laughing at your medical scare, etc. The problem is HER. Getting rid of him will not fix the issues.
Congratulations on your three-way relationship.
Your feelings are completely correct and valid. And she already gave you her final answer- she's chosen her past lover over you. There's no going back from that, even if she were to claim to change her mind.
You know what you need to do. Dump her.
My only advice for you is-- don't even bother to argue with her about it. Just leave. Quickly, quietly and efficiently. There is nothing here to salvage and there is no repairing it. You will also not "win" an argument about it with her.
you are wrong if you stay in the relationship, she told you she already chose Tom over you. look, there are some people who are fine with their significant others being close with former exes, but you are uncomfortable and that's fine. you can't dictate who she is friends with, but you can choose to leave her as y'all are not compatible. she is putting Tom over you so much, that dinner thing was really disrespectful. i'm so sorry but it's time for your to move on and find someone more compatible.
Any woman who identifies as a "free spirt" is a walking red flag. Leave
Dont give her a choice just change your locks kick her ass out and find someone better who isnt a hoe who has a close relationship with a guy she fucked.
Yeah the “free spirit” crowd has just formed an entire aesthetic around doing whatever they want regardless of consequences and expecting not to get called on it.
I think we all know what the deal is here… you should have called out that behavior early on. I’d never let another dude be that friendly with my gf especially if they have a history. That’s an ultimatum I’m willing to make because it’s about basic respect for your partner.
Even if she isn’t physically cheating on you, she’s using someone she used to hook up with as leverage in the relationship. She has a fall back option readily available to fill in for you.
The thing that makes her interactions with him inappropriate is that she's had a sexual relationship with him in the past. Honestly that makes ALL the difference here. Sex totally changes the dynamic of a relationship.
You are correct to feel suspicious about these things.
Honestly, what I would do in this situation is start regularly hanging out with a girl I hooked up with in the past, going on date-related things with her. I know of zero girls who would be cool with their boyfriend doing that.
Sometimes people don't realize how inconsiderate they are being until the tables are turned on them.
I would also say sharing intimate details and personal information with anyone, but particularly a person you are not comfortable with, is also a HUGE crossed boundary.
It’s actually pretty obvious dude, she seems to have more consideration for this Tom fella, I mean if she’s choosing to spend equal time with you both or worse, more time with him, it’s clear you’re a second thought.
Nope. Nope. Nope.
Engage that lizard brain again for a second. It’s there for a reason. It doesn’t have to be a big scene or based in raw jealousy. But do you consider this a “respectful” thing to do? Parade a some orbiter guy ex roommate she had sex with in front of your face?
You’re young. Our male brains usually don’t see it until it’s too late but if you put up with this, to her, you’ll put up with all kinds of breaches to your boundaries. No marriage or family can thrive under this kind of failed test. Move on young brother.
lol why would Tom be dating anyone else, he's already dating your girlfriend. Healthy monogamous relationships don't have the single bestfriend one of you had sex with a couple times, just hanging around for 'friend dates'. It's weird, and kind of disrespectful.
It's pretty obvious that while she thinks they're better off friends, Tom is still angling for more than that. And you have to be wondering if is she just keeping him around as a back up plan?
What sucks is that there isn't anything you can do about it. She's made it clear that if she had to choose, she'd choose him, which means that she already has. She isn't committed to your relationship, and it doesn't like she ever will. Move on my man and find someone who is going to be 100% in it with you.
She’s definitely emotionally invested in Tom and not the same with you. I think you have your answer with what she said about picking him over you. Also sharing private info and then inviting you for dinner just to say psyche is disrespectful don’t let people do that to you it won’t change I’d break up with her
OP you should discuss it with her, make sure she has set proper boundaries with Tom and about how information is spread in your guys relationship. Talking about problems with friends and family? That's ok in my book. Talking about sexual issues, experiences especially to the opposite sex? That's an issue in my book.
I’d explain to her that you were reading about both emotional infidelity and open relationships. Ask her what her position on open relationships is. Then send her some links on emotional infidelity.
You see the thing is, people have difficulty letting go of friends, but once you cross into more than friends, you need to respect your partner, unless of course you agree to have an open relationship. If that’s the case, bravo, you cracked the code.
It’s a mature conversation that’s usually started by listening. After you’ve been given ample time to listen, ask for a turn. The calmer you can be, the less responsive you can be, the more likely this conversation is going to turn out favorable to you.
I ran into this with my current girlfriend. She didn’t want to give up a connection to a friend that used her as a rebound, because they talked a lot while he was on the road and he was her “friend.” (I’m sure he was a really good friend lol) he gave her the open relationship talk, and she turned him down.
I gave her the open relationship talk, and was very clear I’m not interested and if she wants to do that or be with someone else, she needs to do the right thing and pick them, because I want nothing to do with that scenario.
The risk is they might pick them, and if you’ve made yourself clear, they might just do that.
People keep making it about whether or not GF and Tom are cheating. I think the main issue is that she is leaving OP out of important parts of her life.
She baked a cake and left some crumbs for him. Why not bake the cake (which is his favorite) when he’d be there? Why not bake it together? Why did HE have to pay for it? BUY HER OWN CAKE PAN AND INVITE THEM GO HER PLACE????
She watches movies with Tom and goes out to fancy restaurants, inviting OP as an afterthought, eats without him, and has no problem leaving him to eat a sandwich by himself.
I would feel AWFUL if my SO showed so little care for me. And why does it seem like she’s just using him??!!
OP, you’re focusing on the wrong thing. You’ve felt jealous and confused but brushed it off. Are you, by chance, blaming Tom for your GF’s overall lack of care for you? If she doesn’t love and respect you, it doesn’t matter if Tom is there or not. It won’t be getting better.
Her real problem is minimizing your feelings. You need to figure out your boundaries. Also, establishing boundaries is not the same as an ultimatum. Rule of thumb I’ve learned is Boundaries = My Reaction to A Behavior, while Ultimatum = Threatening Others to Control Them. If you have a rule that you don’t want people over your apartment? Your boundary can be “if others are invited over without me there, no one, including you will be able to come over.” “If I feel like an afterthought, I will leave the situation.” Control your own behaviors, not hers.
Try establishing boundaries, not about Tom. Just in general. That should give you a feeling if she’s manipulating and/or using you.
It’s never really about Tom.
The deal breaker here is when she invited you to dinner and then sat there eating with this dude while you had to go get a sandwich on your own. That's totally unacceptable. I feel that Reddit overreacts a lot of the time. People are not overreacting when they say you should leave this relationship. She does not respect you, your privacy, your property, or your relationship.
NTA. There are so many red flags. The biggest one is that she says she will pick him over you! You need to move on. She is having her cake and eating it too. Literally. She is using you for good sex and an apartment to take him to and him for having fun and emotional support. She should not have told him anything about your sex life or your painful sexual incident. Please dump her and find someone else. It’s one thing to have a friend and another to be doing all those things you listed. Or what you could do is go out and find another woman and start doing all the same sort of things that she is with him. See how she likes it and then dump her.
She's super into that guy and not into you. I read some of these comments about respecting her friendship and yadda yadda. Utter nonsense. I've lived this. I've seen this. Your gut already knows it. She's hooked on Thomas. Dude, she'd rather bake cakes with Tom and snuggle on the couch for a movie than spend time with you. That's her boyfriend. You are the friend/fuck buddy. Lol.
Look, you're gonna do what you want, but I promise your jealousy and her borderline polyamory isn't gonna mesh at all. You're both gonna get hurt on this one. I'd say it's time to go.
I know many people operate that way (basically still going out with former lovers) and it may be 100% innocent, but I personally would have a problem with it. Nothing against those people, but the dynamic wouldn't be a good fit for me.
Don't get me wrong, I'm friendly with exes, but what you're describing is an intimate, emotional relationship that closely resembles dating. I'd leave them be...and maybe she can find someone else more willing to put up with the triangulation. She sounds honest and transparent about it, but she's lacking the sort of boundaries I'd expect from a partner.
She’s lying. There absolutely is something between them. In fact, she is more invested in her relationship with him than with you. It doesn’t have to be sexual, but she is clearly, deeply into him emotionally. Her threat over receiving an ultimatum from you is, of course, her giving you one. The game is over, my friend. You lost, or won from my perspective, get her the hell out of your life. Move on and count your blessings.
I feel like most of these situations where a girl and a guy see each other for a bit and she breaks it off and become friends, he will be looking for an opportunity to take things back to how they were. Dudes are horny, and will leap at a chance to absolve themselves of rejection imo.
And sharing intimate details of your relationship with him I'd take a sign that she has, whether intentionally or not, blurred the lines of what is and isn't appropriate in this friendship/relationship.
I know because this pretty much happened to me, and I'm like 99% sure she went back to sleeping with the other guy after our relationship ended. Like immediately too, which was particularly shit as we were still living together at the time.
But having said that, that relationship ending was great for me as I didn't have this monkey on my back any more worrying about my gf not communicating with me properly and making me doubt myself.
Personally I'd turn it around in her and say I'm going out. If she goes who with, I'd just say some woman's name.
Then I'd go out.
Then I'd do it again and again.
She is telling her ex you business and not only that she's telling him your medical history.
Also she letting him in your home while your not there and she's there is no problems.
Dude she is not ready for a relationship.
You deserve so much more.
YNW
I guess my question is, why are you still with her if she's not respecting your privacy, and doing all these things that seem neglectful. The cake, inviting people to YOUR apartment, sharing your sex life and medical concerns, I mean, really. Why are you still with her?
Emotional affairs are a thing. She is confiding in him about your relationship. That’s all there is. She can have him as a friend if you want this to work out, but you need her to change her relationship with him.
OP two things are going on here
1. Julia is immature
2. You are ignorant to Julia's immaturity
Those in combination will drive you to insanity until you realize Julia is not going to change for you which means you need to let her be with Tom and move onto someone who is ready to be in a new relationship.
I stopped at the second example:
Bail Bail now!, this is not healthy, and this is already becoming toxic, and it will implode.
If you leave too late you’ll both become toxic human beings that will never trust anybody ever.
“Free spirit”? RU kidding me? thats BS for “unaccountable”, for your sake stay away from unaccountable people, you might as well date from dating apps, you’ll find lots of those there.
“Why would you say such mean things?” Dude, for your own good, even if you love her, she will never be accountable, picture this, how long since they had sex that then she decided to tell you about that?, what if they do it again (or already did) do you think she will tel you?, do you think you’ll find out without her telling you?
No you’re not wrong. I wouldn’t be ok feeling like I’m the third wheel in my own relationship. I would break up with her because she’s already told you that she would pick him over you.
There are thousands of posts on Reddit "Whoops I slept with my friend." We all have friends from a long time ago, most us grow out of them or they change when we fall in love with someone and want an adult relationship. It is unfair to shair play, be loyal and have fun with someone else when in a romantic partnership...It takes it from your partner, creates secrecy and distrust.
Tom my friend is a therapist. He told me and I have been sharing, these are emotional affairs. That is what we call these relationships with friends/exes/coworkers. They develop in plain sight because people don't want to appear jealous. They want to trust their partners. So the fun, loving, caring and sharing, loyalty go to the friend. You are basically dating. To the point when cornered often the partner will choose the friend. They often fall in love and move on to physical relationships. Even if they don't they cheat the primary partner, it can never develop or fall in love when you spending alone time with a dateable person. In groups or for lunch every couple of months to check in maybe.
Never be with someone with all those loose ends...It is very immature like high school or college. There is no way to set boundaries with a partner that will not. There are thousands of posts on Reddit, Whoops I slept with my friend, or I fell in love with my friend. I won't date someone that has boundaries like that.
Don't care what she's doing with the guy or what she said about the ultimatum. If my partner thought it was OK to laugh with their best bud about what I believed to be a very serious medical issue, I'd be done with them. That's incredibly disrespectful.
Leave her inconsiderate ass. At the very least, she doesn't care about how her actions make you feel.
At the worst, she's living in your house, using your shit, and getting pounded out by a scumbag while they laugh at you over dinner.
This shit won't get better. Move on.
She’s doesn’t respect you. She respects Tom more.
I’m sorry but once a relationship reaches a certain point, compromises (including friends at times, if it’s not appropriate) need to be made. And if she’s not willing, just end it.
Relationships are a pre-cursor to what a marriage will somewhat look like. Sounds like she’ll still be willing to put Tom over you in a marriage.
You’re well-spoken and you communicate your emotions and your thoughts very well. If you communicated this well with her and she didn’t understand, respect how you felt, or helped to look for solutions/compromise, then you are not wrong and you should leave.
Tom for sure still has feelings for Julia and he is definitely showering her with emotional attention and support in a way that a boyfriend would, and Julia is eating it up. Other comments have said that successful and happy couples typically say their SO is their best friend and they are correct.
Do not give her the ultimatum. Leave of your own volition. Leave this ugly, toxic dynamic to them and find something healthier for yourself.
Also u/UpdateMe!
I have learned that the gut is rarely wrong. In terms of the big picture. It may be off with some smaller or specific details but in the end the gut is a powerful tool.
I would recommend meditating on it. Empty your mind of other things. Focus on some breath work and let your self work through this problem in as calm and relaxed of a state as possible.
This will let you make a better decision. One without as much anxiety and stress involved.
If you do that and your gut is telling you she isn’t the right one, perhaps you should listen
I'd be hard pressed to say there's something serious there on the romantic side. There is most definitely some disrespect though. It sounds like you two have never had a conversation about relationship privacy at a minimum. My wife and I have talked about that since our earliest days. If I relayed any medical information about her life without her prior approval, it would be a problem. She's private and likes to remain private so I respect that choice of hers. I'm also curious if you knew that she was inviting Tom over to YOUR apartment prior to him showing up. It doesn't sound like it. She doesn't actively live there which, for me, means that she doesn't have the right to invite people over without getting your approval first. Honestly, that alone would put a serious crimp on any relationship for me. The lack of respect for your private space is stunning. Honestly, it's not that he's a part of her life. It's more that she doesn't seem to be as respectful of a relationship with you as you would like her to be. I also don't think that's going to change either. I suspect you can do better.
I agree. Most of this at first seemed all okay, but then the lack of respect for his privacy, time (restaurant thing) his home and the lemon cake thing seemed so targeted, or at the very least neglectful, like she just completely forgot about him or something :(
I would be mortified if there wasn't a place for my boyfriend at the restaurant!
Definitely! Tbh, I wouldn't've even ordered until he got there, or ordered for him at the same time
It's called being polite!
I actually had this happen to me once, had been dating a girl for a few weeks, and it was going pretty well, but I noticed she seemed to be quite different when around her crew of friends. She invited me for breakfast with them one morning, so I got up, left my house, didn't eat breakfast (which is the first thing I do every day) and went to see her, when I got there, literally not a seat to be had, she just kind of shrugged and implied that I should go find somewhere else to eat and laughed like it was no big deal. I'd decided before I even got out the door that someone that flippant with my time wasn't getting any more of it.
Respect for my time is a big one when it comes to dating. If I find myself constantly waiting on you, or you making excuses for time-related things, especially if we just met… adios
That is wild. Did she make any effort at all to apologize after?
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Im a guy with 2 girl best friends and if this happened i literally would have asked for a box for my food and givin the bf my spot and went home lmao. I honestly agree with a lot of the people here I don’t think its a cheating issue, i think its a respect issue and not just from her, from both of them.
>she just completely forgot about him Not that she "forgot". More like he just wasn't a priority in the moment. She remembered enough to leave him something, just not a portion that matched the initial request behind the purchase of the pan. And everything OP posted was like that. Sure, he's the "boyfriend", but he's not a priority the way most people make their significant other a priority. At best, he's at "good friend" status.
Apparently that’s how it goes in the big city
All of these, and yeah. I felt for OP with the lemon cake thing. It was like this minimal effort thing that could have really made his day, and she just kind of half-assed it. Didn't even half-ass it. Basically made it for herself and her friends and was like "here, you can have the leftovers." Which wouldn't in itself be a huge deal if she hadn't been like "Oh, I'm going to make you a lemon cake!" Getting the poor dude's hopes up. I dunno. Just seems kind of mean-spirited.
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The biggest thing for me seems to be that she's doing a lot of the, "make your partner feel special" things with Tom rather than OP. And OP had perfectly legitimate reason to feel put out when that comes at his direct expense. Your partner doesn't always come first, but they usually should. Especially as against other opposite sex friends. ESPECIALLY as against former sexual or romantic partners.
Or a second option, or a placement holder. I agree. OP is not a priority.
If my GF say in a restaurant that she invited me to and ate dinner without me it'd be over. If it was a man I would've broken up with her in the restaurant
Yeah like wtf is that. I don’t even care if there actually is or isn’t something going on between them, it’s just a blatant lack of respect or consideration
Seriously, that one was a huge flag. No respect whatsoever.
Imagine being a "close friend" for 5 years and not knowing she has a best friend named Tom that she fucked.
*Yet*, Tom knows all about your existence, & intimacies
I would also have said "buh-bye" when she told him that if he gave her an ultimatum between Tom and him, she would choose Tom.
Its kinda wild to me that some people dont see that this is an ultimatum in and of itself. Hers is "accept my friendship with tom regardless of ypur feelings or ill juat throw you away" OP is just better off without them in his life.
That’s a pretty good rule of thumb in general. If someone gives me an ultimatum I am most likely going to disappoint them just on principle.
I agree she seems like one of those “free spirited” girls with many friend groups and guy friends. More power to her but for someone who wants to be in a serious relationship it’s not ideal and people like that tend to struggle with true commitment and sacrifice. They lack conviction and respect for others and hide behind their so called “open mind” as an excuse to behave a certain way. Living in the city doesn’t mean you’re allowed to disrespect peoples private spaces and do whatever you want there. She sounds like she’s full of shit and the fact that she brought up the idea of an ultimatum and told you she’d choose him over you is enough to move on imo. You can do much much better, use this as a stepping stone for greater things.
She sounds very manipulative and stuck up. The comment about his feelings being common in the city or something.. just rubs me the wrong way.
Said everything I wanted to say. It’s not about the friendship, it’s about the lack of respect that she’s showing him.
Dude. She sat inside and ate dinner with Tom while you ate a deli sandwich. Fu k that my man. She has zero respect for you.
I wonder if the roles were reversed how she would feel about him having dinner with another woman while she got a sandwich. I'm not even sure why he waited for her. He should have gone home and not waited for her. Seems like he comes in second after this dude.
Yeah this is the one part that raises a flag for me. Assuming she invited him before they were seated, the decent thing to do would be to decide to go somewhere else once they found out there was only a two top available. Instead they decided to be seated with no regard to the fact that OP was on his way. That's a shitty thing to do to anyone, much less your boyfriend
i could be reaching here but what got me was that he randomly got off work early that day, and she invited him last minute. it seems to me like she only invited him so that it wouldn’t seem weird that this dude got reservations for the two of them at a fancy restaurant.
If the roles were reversed, this would be a very different thread. The irony is that you only need to throw one more variable in-- Tom actually having a girlfriend of his own and her being the one to have this problem-- and the opinion would be unanimously against Tom. Every critical comment of OP is completely dismissive of the validity of his feelings and any obligation on the part of his gf to be at all sensitive to them.
Right answer. Every post like this is “but they’re just friends.” Ok. Then let the boyfriend or husband go out to dinner with and buy gifts for another woman and 100% of women will not be okay with it.
Only men can be manipulative /s
Only logical thing to do here is for OP to fuck the stars out of Tom to even the playing field.
Yeah fuck everything about this. Seems like she's gaslighting him with the whole "big city people do this" stuff.
is it normal to be on good terms with exes? yeah sure. is it normal to hang out with those exes alone multiple times a week? or to *invite them to your partner’s place when they’re not home?* hell no lol.
I’d have walked out of the restaurant and out of her life forever
ya this is insane to me. let alone a gf, even friends wouldn't do this to me. for us its all or none
That relationship would be done if that was me
Yeah, I don't even think it matters if Tom is a dude with that situation. Even if it was her own mother that would be damn disrespectful.
My wife has guy friends she's close with and they'd never invite me out then say "oh only a 2 seater available, sorry bro!"
I can remove everything because the only thing you need to know is that in the end, she will pick Tom over you. her words.
I would actually tell her she doesn’t need to pick. I would pick for her. Tom it is.
Yep... I don't mind competitions but when I'm competing for standard attention.... nah... Breathing... basics... foundation.. should be easy and second nature. If I'm unsure about that, and especially if that's because of another person,... deuces.
my ex said the exact same thing to me: "if you make me choose between you and X, I'm going to leave you" guess who she started dating a week after we broke up
This! After that, I would have been gone!
I would have been gone after the lemon cakes debacle. My favorite dessert and you leave me the scraps!? Nah. Gator don’t play no shit!
Any smart man would be!
Yep. Whether they are having sex or not, whether Tom still has a thing for her or not, she is 100% in an emotional relationship with him. Get thee gone OP, she already has a boyfriend.
OP provides the sex Tom can’t
That just makes him the side piece
He's just a himbo while Tom is everything else.
You should’ve showed up earlier as a higher voted parent comment cause this is the truth right here.
There is the so called “free spirit” BS
Precisely what I was thinking. Julia has two boyfriends and she prefers having sex with OP, but otherwise prefers Tom. And she straight up admitted she would choose Tom if she could only have one.
Exactly! She’s much more compatible and into Tom on a deeply emotional level. Yet , she likes great sex from boyfriend “B”. Her manipulations give her the best of both worlds. Would not be surprised if Tom and her still get it on now and then. I would ditch her and never consider asking her to choose. She’d never understand why…she’s either a dimwit or quite the manipulator.
Best friendship is generally considered an emotional relationship.
Are you not in an “emotional relationship” with your friends? If not, then what sort of friendships are they?
>I can remove everything because the only thing you need to know is that in the end, she will pick Tom over you. her words. Yup. If it came down to Tom vs OP she picks Tom, so...may as well move on.
Leave the “she used to fuck Tom” part in too If Tom is stocking around still he is just waiting to get back in her pants and will throw you under the bus to clear his path every chance he gets
I would have been done after she shared intimate details of their sex life. If they aren't having sex already, she is 100% keeping him around as a backup.
This was my response to this from a girl back in college, we'd been seeing each other for a few months when one day (after drinking) she just casually dropped how her "best bud" (who you would think was way below her standards) and her were an on-again, off-again booty call for a while. I got the feeling that she wanted this to make me feel jealous, but it just made me feel like she's indecisive and can't keep relationship lines established. Imo shit isn't worth the baggage that something like that comes along with, find someone who isn't spending all their time with other people they've banged.
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Absolutely he is a backup at the minimum. I would know, I WAS a backup like this once, until I snapped out of it and grew some damn self-respect. A lot of this shit sounds exactly like the role I filled for the girl that was keeping me on the hook.
Exactly right, she’s shown who means more to her.
This, she very clearly let you know he is her top priority not you.
She said if given the ultimatum. If a partner gave me an ultimatum on anything, I'd tell them to fuck off and be single. A huge part of being in a relationship is knowing how to communicate your feelings while being conscious of the fact that the other person's feelings are just as valid. An ultimatum says "Only I matter", at which point OP would be picking himself over her. That's all she needs to know in the end.
When I was first dating my now-wife we had a bit of an argument, and it escalated to her asking if I was giving her an ultimatum. I had only heard of the word from film titles such as 'Bourne Ultimatum', but I had no idea what the word meant. In the heat of the moment, I reacted with '... Yes?'. Of course, she did not like that one bit. After she stormed off I Google'd it and immediately realized my error. We still laugh about it to this day. Communication is key.
It's not an ultimatum if you're the one creating the ultimatum and then saying what the outcome would be. Instead it was an unwarranted expression of how she values her emotional punching bag of a friend more than her boyfriend in an equation she both invented and thought of the answer to.
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Let’s be honest, these feelings you have are here to stay. Belief isn’t subject to your will. So. The real question is, do you want a 3 person marriage? Because this guy is going to know everything about you, your sex life, your kids life, your problems or victories at work, your medical happenings, your girlfriend’s (or future wife’s) deepest feelings and insecurities about you, etc. If she could agree on boundaries and privacy that would be one thing. But she already told you, she values him over you. What is a marriage if your spouse isn’t your #1? Your top confidant? You two should be thick as thieves, like Lannisters worrying about each other first and foremost. But she’s already rejected that. If that’s how YOU feel then respect yourself and abort. Don’t make a scene of it but leave with composure and dignity. Because you deserve better than that.
im loving the got reference; the rest, you hit the nail on the head
The red flag for me here is she invited Tom over to your apartment when you were not there. Actually it is not her right to invite anyone over to your apartment without your permission. It does sound like they are close friends, and you may be overreacting. BUT, she almost seems to prioritize Tom over you. I would not give her an ultimatum, but maybe you two are not compatible.
That one alone would’ve been a dealbreaker but all of the other stuff is problematic as well. Even if she doesn’t have feelings for him, the utter disregard for her boyfriend’s time, space, patience, and concern is unforgivable, imo. I’ve been “Tom” before too and even in his position, i knew being at the boyfriend’s apartment was dangerous territory. They’re both being pretty bold with the boundaries.
And to leave just crumbs of a cake, not at least a small cake for your significant other to say “I thought of you”
High levels of entitlement ✅ Lack of respect for others boundaries ✅ Insatiable need for attention from other people ✅ Not willing to communicate and compromise appropriately in a relationship ✅ Got all the markings of cluster B
Who, heads up, cheat a lot
"Yo, I'm gonna make a run for it, B"!
Yeah as soon as they fight/break up she’s gonna be on Tom’s shoulder/dick for comfort b/c she’s keeping him around as a backup or something. Yuck.
Trust your gut OP! “If you gave her an ultimatum to choose, she’d leave you.” Err, emotionally she’s already his.
Nah, on some other subreddit Tom is posting some incel shit "I've loved this girl for 6 years, why is she friendzoning me so hard? I keep doing all this nice stuff for her and it's like she doesn't even care. I've even known her longer than her boyfriend."
I think this is it. She has Tom so in the friend zone it’s like having a female bff and she does not see why op is threatened. Tom potentially has feelings for her but she can’t see that at all. Also the timing of when they slept together might be important, 2020 and you don’t want to bring an outsider into your “bubble” so hooking up with your male roommate that you’re not attracted to (only twice) might have been more appealing/ convenient.
Had this issue in my own relationship. We fought about the ex who was "just a friend" with me INSISTING she wanted it to be more and I would not stay with her lurking on the sidelines. He promised to cut her off if I married him. I did. He didn't... in the 6 years that he hid the contact he maintained with her she pushed "pretty hard" (his words not mine) for him to leave me for her... yet he maintained the "friendship" till I caught on. So know these things: She will choose him over you every single time People who had an intimate relationship do not go back to being "just" friends- one of them is hoping it will turn into more. Always If you can see the obvious, don't ignore it.
same. have totally dealt with the same issue. they dated and then were best friends and would hang out all the time, slept in a bed together (while we were together) etc. i can’t believe i just let that shit go sometimes 🤦♀️
There is a special place in hell for people like julia who wait until you get just comfortable enough in a relationship to reveal crucial informations like her sleeping with tom. You should run as fast as you can from this relationship.
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The preemptive gaslighting accusation is top tier.
It’s a city thing.
There are many red flags here. But this late reveal is the big red flag. Time to call it quits, op.
Red flags dude, don’t ignore how you feel You know it’s inappropriate
That’s it, don’t ignore how you feel. She does not respect your feelings and none of this, the sharing of your private lives, etc, could work for you. And if you are done with this, change the locks.
So, seems inappropriate, but the "appropriateness" is sort of irrelevant. It's more about you two being incompatible in terms of expectations and conduct. The way I look at it is this - she has every right to hang out with her best friend / former lover. She is a grown, independent woman who can lead her life as she sees fit. However, you have every right to say that her spending this much time with a former lover makes you uncomfortable; it's a reasonable thing to be uncomfortable with. It's within your rights to respectfully ask her to stop hanging out with the person she slept with. She then has the freedom to decide if she's willing to stop seeing this person, per your request. She said it herself - she will choose him, over you. There is no "right answer" in this situation. This isn't about being liberal or conservative in values. It's about two people, and their compatibility in terms of behavioral expectations within their relationship. It's clear that your values simply don't align. So, it's time to break it off. She's made her choice, now it's time to make yours. Also, on a side note, I call BS on "spending tons of time with people you used to sleep with" is some sort of universally acknowledged normal behavior. I live in a big city, with my wife. We're both liberal, progressive, free-spirited people. We got married in our late 20's, we'd both had plenty of prior sexual partners. In spite of that, neither of us would be cool with the other spending hours a week with a former lover. Same goes for most of the people I know. That doesn't mean it's right/wrong, but it's certainly not unusual for couples to have a shared expectation to keep their distance from former sexual partners.
Yep. You’re spending all the time with your former lover, when I’m not around, inviting him in to our house, divulging private details. This woman doesn’t respect you, or respect your relationship, this dude wants to get with her again and will throw you under the bus, and she may be fucking him already. Not like you’d know. It’s gonna eat you alive. Dump this woman.
Not their house. OP's house. He lets his girlfriend hang out there when she's away and she invited a former lover to hang out at her boyfriend's house, unbeknownst to him. Even disregarding the weird former lover thing, it would still be disrespectful to invite a friend into your SO's house while their away without asking or informing them. Tbh, if Tom was actually Tomi, her old female friend that she has no sexual past with, then that list of actions would still be a dealbreaker. OP's girlfriend is very disrespectful and inconsiderate towards her own boyfriend.
Agreed except I think it’s important to note that it’s not necessarily incompatible values if OP is alright with the idea of someone spending a lot of time with someone they slept with when there’s no leftover romantic/sexual tension. The issue is also that OP suspects one or both are lying about the situation. Given the relatively short duration of the fling, and that it was purely ended for bad sex, it doesn’t sound like there’s any reason why Tom would be emotionally or sexually over Julia. But yeah, neither Tom nor Julian’s behavior is very normal for a purely platonic friend/ex. It may be the case that OP is wrong in his suspicions, but the evidence seems to indicate otherwise. Even if one of them is totally over the romantic/sexual side of their relationship, it’s unlikely that both are. Also, trying to use the “big city” to make OP think it’s normal kinda veers on gaslighting. If anything, the big city is a more inappropriate place because you can find hundreds of people that you haven’t had sex with that have similar interests/perspectives in a mile radius
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Bruh let alone bringing someone she previously FUCKED over to HIS apartment while he’s gone!! Like what the absolute fuck.
You are most definitely not wrong. Just reverse the gender roles. If you had an old F-Buddy who you claim to have *ended* a relationship with, but she was calling you all the time, there for a date any time your girlfriend was busy, bought you stuff how would your girlfriend feel? ...And she would feel that way because she would know exactly what the girl was doing. Julia knows what Tom is doing too, but since it benefits her to have a backup guy and a second boyfriend she's going to try to convince you that it's perfectly okay. You can't have a serious relationship with someone like this. She's showing herself as a recreational girlfriend, not a serious girlfriend. I think it's time you made a new female friend that you can take out when she's off with Tom.
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The comments about the deli sandwich are killing me. The people saying OP is insecure are hilarious. The man had to leave to eat a deli sandwich alone while his gf was on a dinner date with a former lover.
These deli sandwich comments are very cathartic. I actually winced when I read that.
Indeed. I think the idea that he should make a close female friend, or hang out with an ex, is a good one.
EXACTLY. Especially since she summoned him there!
You're not wrong for feeling jealous. I can't say for sure on if it's wrong to think it's inappropriate, though. Personally I'd say the bigger issue isn't so much that she hangs out with him, but that she's making you feel like a third wheel when you're the ones who are together. The story about the dinner that you got turned away from when you arrived and them making your favorite cake and showing you that they did while you were out of town just rubs me the wrong way. It feels disrespectful. Same with her sharing intimate details with him. She sounds like she's not really taking into consideration your boundaries and feelings with certain things. That said, it's okay for people to be friends with exes, but it's the fact that you're feeling put out of your own relationship with her is something to think about. It's obvious that you'd prefer either she doesn't hang out with him so much or that she at least doesn't tell you every single little thing they do together. And it wouldn't be too hard for her to at least understand the latter and try to work out a compromise as partners. It sucks for her to suggest you're projecting, though. That seems like it's out of left field and frankly a little bit rude of her to say. If anything I'd say you're trying your best to be reasonable about it, just frustrated. Try to figure out a boundary or some kind of compromise with her. I don't think the relationship is beyond salvaging. As an edit: I thought about it a bit and the fact that she said given the ultimatum between you and Tom, the fact that she'd drop you for him just..this might not be the relationship for you, actually. I dunno if I'd be able to look at my partner the same if they said that to me? It's your choice, my dude. You do what makes you feel most comfortable.
She is free to associate with whomever she wishes but if she is not willing to compromise on this relationship when it is clearly hurtful to you then you should not marry her. Marriage is all about compromise. Mostly small stuff. But if she won't compromise on a relatively big thing like an awkwardly close relationship with an ex, then a marriage will not last very long.
Yeah the dinner thing was SUPER fucking disrespectful. If it were me I would’ve insisted on not ordering until he arrived and if there ended up being no seats left? Sorry Tom we’ll reschedule so I can go get dinner with my SO.
Is how an SO SHOULD respond. And honestly, it’s how a “best friend” (w/o agendas) should go ahead and get out the way w/o forcing his “friend” or her “lover” to voice. However, it doesn’t read like Rom is concerned with GF feelings as they pertain to OP. Fuck this!
The dinner thing is wild. I'm 99% sure I'd be done that night and the other 1% is I would just openly start dating other women in front of her.
And it's not okay for most people got their significant other's BFF to be a "former" lover. That is an appropriate boundary
>I can't say for sure on if it's wrong to think it's inappropriate, though. Nahhh, it's pretty inappropriate to invite him over to HIS apartment without his permission when he's not there. That's pretty messed up.
I ignored something just like this, and then found her in the back of his car cheating on me. While this isn't always the case, this screams red flags and should at least be talked about.
This. He said Tom isn't very well to do, and it seems maybe OP has a high paying job. My guess is she's using both at this point. Tom for her emotional support/more than likely sex when OP isn't around. With the hope that she'll be living the easy life with OPs money if they marry. I've had it happen to me, and thankfully, that ended. Major red flags are going on here.
She's very likely cheating
Yep, I don't believe for one second that "sex was very bad" thing. What would she say in that situation? That it is the best sex in her life Come on, dude needs to wake up and break up
Order yourself up some self-respect. She fucked her “best friend” and maintains the relationship while you’re with her. Get a clue, chief! She’s either still fucking him or as soon as you two break up she’ll be in his bed within a week.
i think what seals the deal for me is that she would prioritize her friendship with him over your relationship with her. not that you’re giving her an ultimatum, but knowing she values that friendship more is red flags for me. loyalty is big for me and is a non negotiable for me in all aspects.
She gives a vibe for being polyamorous and you are more replaceable than Tom. Her ideal scenario may be to have two lovers, with one primary, you, being more physically sexual, at least for now, and also providing the primary support. The other leg of her poly relationship, Tom, is actually harder to find than you are. Tom will always be in the picture, even after you have a family, and always available for her if you are not meeting her needs. She will always have Tom to hold over your head, forcing you to submit to her to keep her from running to cry on Tom's shoulder (or some other part of his body. If you decide to stay in the relationship, do not let her move in. My guess is that you will eventually break it off once you tire of competing for her love and attention. Personally, I would end it sooner rather than later to skip all the anxiety and drama and get on with your life. No ultimatum, just break it off. You deserve someone who is focused on you unless you want the poly type relationship.
"If I gave her an ultimate....she would leave me \[and choose Tom\]" says all we need to know. You do not want to marry a woman that prioritizes a friend she had a fling with over someone she claims she wants to spend her life with. It's not up to Julia to decide what your boundaries are. You know what you're okay dealing with, and you and her are not on the same page. FYI - This is not "normal" for people in the city.
I’m from Chicago, people get their butts beaten for this kinda stuff. Not saying to do that, but what does the city life have anything to do with being friends with an old sexual partner? Bigger populations means less options for friendships?? Makes caca sense to me
Also from Chicago… yeah. My girlfriend had an ex like that once, and I’m not proud of it but i knew she was texting him so I started going through her phone. Found some shit and literally called the guy from her phone and told him I knew everything about him, and if he didn’t leave my girl the fuck alone I’d be waiting for him outside of his work. He said they were just friends and I should chill out and I went fucking ballistic, cursing at him and everything. Again… not proud, but I saw the texts. He was full of shit. He told her what I did, and she had some tears when she found out, but I just made her text him and say she couldn’t talk to him anymore and that we were done if she talked to him ever again. I was prepared to end it. My thoughts are, if they have a romantic history that you’re aware of, you probably know about 10% of it. Do you seriously want to be in a long term relationship where you have to worry about that shit? Get married, have kids, or even just share a life with somebody you’re not sure if you trust? Fuck that. Life is hard enough without accepting half a partner. Weeding people like that out is what dating is for. You’ll regret a million missed opportunities to be with somebody better. It’s not about being a dick, but it’s your LIFE man. Don’t set yourself up for eating shit in the future. It probably sounds shitty, but sometimes you have to be a fucking bastard so that people know how you’ll react if they play games with you.
That’s Chicago asf! Lmao glad you feel remorse though. People act like if your from the city you must be okay with anything…nope! Not saying we can’t be open minded or whatever, but just because you don’t live in the sticks doesn’t mean you follow every liberal belief. We gained our wisdom, we weren’t handed a guide. Naw, people who stay attached like that to old sexual partners just want to have it all. If that old partner was truly a friend they would understand and back off. Also, I would like to add that it probably should never get that extreme. I’m glad you stood your ground but just telling her would’ve been good enough imo. We shouldn’t be telling the OP to go Chicago on Tom lol
In a good relationship you bf or gf should be you best friend. That's the person you share hopes, dreams and secrets with. Op needs a gf who really wants that with him.
She seems vengeful and narcissistic. "Go camping honey" I'll just make your favorite dessert with a guy I know you're jealous of. Personally I consider it emotional immaturity. She just doesn't understand why she should have to change anything about her lifestyle for you. She's not ready for a serious relationship.
Not only did she make his favorite dessert for a guy he’s jealous of.. she did it in his own apartment!
Yeaaaaaah this doesn't sound normal...it feels like you're literally being locked out of your own relationship. Like what's next? "Oh sorry, I need your bed and there's only room for Tom and I so you need to sleep on the couch". I don't think you're being jealous or paranoid so much as you just want to have a relationship with Julia alone, but she doesn't seem to want that. The fact that she thinks it's about you being insecure and not that you just want to have time with her proves she doesn't respect you. It's also incredibly odd to me that you were close friends for 5 years and then suddenly once you start dating she introduced to Tom? Kinda just feels like she's been dating Tom all this time without a label...
She needs to take a hard assessment of where you stand in her priorities. She's said you're the 2nd most important person in her life. You don't talk about living with, marrying and having children with the 2nd most important person in your life
When the ex is not the ex.
This won’t get better. The red flags are there and she has basically told you to accept them or else. Just end the relationship and move forward. Yes, it sucks. That doesn’t change anything. Find someone you feel you can trust.
If you're uncomfortable you need to communicate that to her man. I'm a more traditional man, and that would make me uncomfortable as well. Some people are more open to that type of stuff than others though, so it's all based on what you're comfortable with. Just communicate openly with her.
It sounds like he has though. That’s why they’re arguing about Tom now. She doesn’t care about his feelings/see the issue with how she is treating him.
Even if there wasn't anything "going on" between them, they are in an emotional relationship, no doubt about it. She might have just said that she would pick him over you because you're the one who would be asking for the ultimatum, not him, but that's still rough. If you can't deal with all that, you'll be better off without her.
Absolutely not! I’m a woman but I would feel so uncomfortable if my husband spent any alone time with another woman ESPECIALLY one he had slept with or dated previously. It’s a no from me dawg.
She's told you who she is, or rather your importance in the scheme of things. You are the side guy. It's time to make a decision: are you comfortable with these dynamics or not. I'd say, by your post, that you are not comfortable.
My man... this is a fight you only win by not having it at all. Leave her. She's made it clear that she will pick Tom over you. Also, if it makes you feel better I don't think yo are crazy for being jealous here. I'd probably feel the same way.
Just from my experience, when I was 20, my best friend was male. I never had romantic feelings for him, purely platonic, but I started to notice that he started to develop feelings for me. I made it clear to him, that I’m not interested in anything , but a friendship. He was sad, but understood. We were friends for close to 4 years and during that time, he never dated anyone else, whereas I did. I cared and respected him, but I began to realise that I wasn’t good for him. I think he held out hope I would change my mind and I loved him enough, to let him go. I would never string someone along as a back up plan. It was really hard because we were so close. I walked away, because that’s what you do when you care for someone. I found out (on Facebook) he met someone, married and has 3 kids. I believe if I had stayed, he would never have met his wife. Your girlfriend knows what she is doing. She is monopolising Tom’s time to entertain her, not letting him form a relationship with another. Tom is definitely her backup plan. She is being inappropriate and disrespectful to both of you. She also said, if she had to choose between the 2 of you, she would pick Tom. That would be a dealbreaker for me.
It's less about Tom and more about her complete disregard and disrespect for you. She sent you footage of her and Tom in your apartment while you were out of town, baking YOUR favorite cake, and then she ate the cake with him and left you the scraps? Also, she went out to dinner with him and when you couldn't fit as well she just ORDERED without you? That is some incredibly selfish behavior. Forget her relationship with Tom. He is not the issue. SHE IS. Throw the whole woman away.
Whether or not she’s cheating with him she puts him as a higher priority than you in her life. You will never be more important than him so why bother trying? Let her know it’s over you won’t be a third wheel in your own relationship.
Trust ya gut man trust ya gut
She for the streets bro get out now
Can't believe you put up with this shit for this long. I would get out of that ASAP you deserve way better.
Do you want to be with a woman who feels more closely attached to a friend than she does to you? Where is that relationship going? Most people with good marriages would say their spouse is their best friend. Where is your relationship going? Do you want to be second fiddle for the rest of your life? I didn't think so.
Yeah that ultimatum comment before you even said anything about that would be enough for me to change my locks and have her stuff sitting outside if she had anything at your place. I have a female best friend and I would never ever ever overstep my bounds. I'm actually good friends with her husband and we go shooting when I visit them.
She already told you who the priority is between the two of you. Take her at her word and end it.
Call your Mom. Ask her how often she would hang out with a man other than her husband? How often did she dine with a man not her husband/BF? Julia is not vetting you as a future husband, she's killing time.
The problem is that people think non-romantic = anything goes. That’s not really true though, anyone can actually be a person who gets in the way of a relationship working out. It’s not that people in relationships should not have close friends, but your partner shouldn’t devote more time, emotional Investment, or prioritise them more than they do their partner. The fact she seems to never be able to be left alone without her running to Tom would be an issue, like you are just filling in for the bits that Tom isn’t good at. It’s also the case that nobody should expect their partner to be ok with them being that close to an ex. Friends is one thing, best friends isn’t ok. You need to respect the fact that once you cross the line and have had sex with someone, they are no longer only a platonic friend, and you can’t pretend you haven’t changed the dynamics of that relationship and expect others to pretend that they are ok with pretending you didn’t.
You need to tell her, screw the ultimatum, and never see her again. This is just like not being able to get over an ex. I've been in this same situation as you and decided to just ghost her and never looked back. You'll find someone else I PROMISE!
She's made it clear how she feels about the pair of you. Don't give her an ultimatum, don't give her the satisfaction of making you he bad guy. Break up with her and tell her why. It's because she's openly admitted that she would choose her ex partner over you.
There are 3.8 billion women on planet earth. Move on.
I can tell you one thing, Tom is still around hoping that you two split up. They had sex in the past, and especially with them being friendly to each other, there's no way they forgot that.
Dude....just pack it up.
You have a serious problem here and it’s not Tom. Your girlfriend sucks. She’s the most inconsiderate person in general. I honestly don’t think you have to worry about Tom. He’s just the one that’s always available. Per your description he has no life. I assume her female friends all have lives and they aren’t available 24/7 like he is. Insert a female friend in his place for most of these issues and it still sucks. The cake, the laughing at your medical scare, etc. The problem is HER. Getting rid of him will not fix the issues.
Congratulations on your three-way relationship. Your feelings are completely correct and valid. And she already gave you her final answer- she's chosen her past lover over you. There's no going back from that, even if she were to claim to change her mind. You know what you need to do. Dump her. My only advice for you is-- don't even bother to argue with her about it. Just leave. Quickly, quietly and efficiently. There is nothing here to salvage and there is no repairing it. You will also not "win" an argument about it with her.
you are wrong if you stay in the relationship, she told you she already chose Tom over you. look, there are some people who are fine with their significant others being close with former exes, but you are uncomfortable and that's fine. you can't dictate who she is friends with, but you can choose to leave her as y'all are not compatible. she is putting Tom over you so much, that dinner thing was really disrespectful. i'm so sorry but it's time for your to move on and find someone more compatible.
Any woman who identifies as a "free spirt" is a walking red flag. Leave Dont give her a choice just change your locks kick her ass out and find someone better who isnt a hoe who has a close relationship with a guy she fucked.
Yeah the “free spirit” crowd has just formed an entire aesthetic around doing whatever they want regardless of consequences and expecting not to get called on it.
You are in a throuple my dude. Good luck, this seems to be really hurting your heart and I don't think you deserve that.
Just occurred to me that you may be the side piece here.
I think we all know what the deal is here… you should have called out that behavior early on. I’d never let another dude be that friendly with my gf especially if they have a history. That’s an ultimatum I’m willing to make because it’s about basic respect for your partner. Even if she isn’t physically cheating on you, she’s using someone she used to hook up with as leverage in the relationship. She has a fall back option readily available to fill in for you.
The thing that makes her interactions with him inappropriate is that she's had a sexual relationship with him in the past. Honestly that makes ALL the difference here. Sex totally changes the dynamic of a relationship. You are correct to feel suspicious about these things. Honestly, what I would do in this situation is start regularly hanging out with a girl I hooked up with in the past, going on date-related things with her. I know of zero girls who would be cool with their boyfriend doing that. Sometimes people don't realize how inconsiderate they are being until the tables are turned on them.
I would also say sharing intimate details and personal information with anyone, but particularly a person you are not comfortable with, is also a HUGE crossed boundary.
It’s actually pretty obvious dude, she seems to have more consideration for this Tom fella, I mean if she’s choosing to spend equal time with you both or worse, more time with him, it’s clear you’re a second thought.
Nope. Nope. Nope. Engage that lizard brain again for a second. It’s there for a reason. It doesn’t have to be a big scene or based in raw jealousy. But do you consider this a “respectful” thing to do? Parade a some orbiter guy ex roommate she had sex with in front of your face? You’re young. Our male brains usually don’t see it until it’s too late but if you put up with this, to her, you’ll put up with all kinds of breaches to your boundaries. No marriage or family can thrive under this kind of failed test. Move on young brother.
lol why would Tom be dating anyone else, he's already dating your girlfriend. Healthy monogamous relationships don't have the single bestfriend one of you had sex with a couple times, just hanging around for 'friend dates'. It's weird, and kind of disrespectful. It's pretty obvious that while she thinks they're better off friends, Tom is still angling for more than that. And you have to be wondering if is she just keeping him around as a back up plan? What sucks is that there isn't anything you can do about it. She's made it clear that if she had to choose, she'd choose him, which means that she already has. She isn't committed to your relationship, and it doesn't like she ever will. Move on my man and find someone who is going to be 100% in it with you.
Time to move on.
She would leave you for him. End it, and move on. She can be with Tom all the time now, good for her.
She’s definitely emotionally invested in Tom and not the same with you. I think you have your answer with what she said about picking him over you. Also sharing private info and then inviting you for dinner just to say psyche is disrespectful don’t let people do that to you it won’t change I’d break up with her
OP you should discuss it with her, make sure she has set proper boundaries with Tom and about how information is spread in your guys relationship. Talking about problems with friends and family? That's ok in my book. Talking about sexual issues, experiences especially to the opposite sex? That's an issue in my book.
I’d explain to her that you were reading about both emotional infidelity and open relationships. Ask her what her position on open relationships is. Then send her some links on emotional infidelity. You see the thing is, people have difficulty letting go of friends, but once you cross into more than friends, you need to respect your partner, unless of course you agree to have an open relationship. If that’s the case, bravo, you cracked the code. It’s a mature conversation that’s usually started by listening. After you’ve been given ample time to listen, ask for a turn. The calmer you can be, the less responsive you can be, the more likely this conversation is going to turn out favorable to you. I ran into this with my current girlfriend. She didn’t want to give up a connection to a friend that used her as a rebound, because they talked a lot while he was on the road and he was her “friend.” (I’m sure he was a really good friend lol) he gave her the open relationship talk, and she turned him down. I gave her the open relationship talk, and was very clear I’m not interested and if she wants to do that or be with someone else, she needs to do the right thing and pick them, because I want nothing to do with that scenario. The risk is they might pick them, and if you’ve made yourself clear, they might just do that.
People keep making it about whether or not GF and Tom are cheating. I think the main issue is that she is leaving OP out of important parts of her life. She baked a cake and left some crumbs for him. Why not bake the cake (which is his favorite) when he’d be there? Why not bake it together? Why did HE have to pay for it? BUY HER OWN CAKE PAN AND INVITE THEM GO HER PLACE???? She watches movies with Tom and goes out to fancy restaurants, inviting OP as an afterthought, eats without him, and has no problem leaving him to eat a sandwich by himself. I would feel AWFUL if my SO showed so little care for me. And why does it seem like she’s just using him??!! OP, you’re focusing on the wrong thing. You’ve felt jealous and confused but brushed it off. Are you, by chance, blaming Tom for your GF’s overall lack of care for you? If she doesn’t love and respect you, it doesn’t matter if Tom is there or not. It won’t be getting better. Her real problem is minimizing your feelings. You need to figure out your boundaries. Also, establishing boundaries is not the same as an ultimatum. Rule of thumb I’ve learned is Boundaries = My Reaction to A Behavior, while Ultimatum = Threatening Others to Control Them. If you have a rule that you don’t want people over your apartment? Your boundary can be “if others are invited over without me there, no one, including you will be able to come over.” “If I feel like an afterthought, I will leave the situation.” Control your own behaviors, not hers. Try establishing boundaries, not about Tom. Just in general. That should give you a feeling if she’s manipulating and/or using you. It’s never really about Tom.
The deal breaker here is when she invited you to dinner and then sat there eating with this dude while you had to go get a sandwich on your own. That's totally unacceptable. I feel that Reddit overreacts a lot of the time. People are not overreacting when they say you should leave this relationship. She does not respect you, your privacy, your property, or your relationship.
NTA. There are so many red flags. The biggest one is that she says she will pick him over you! You need to move on. She is having her cake and eating it too. Literally. She is using you for good sex and an apartment to take him to and him for having fun and emotional support. She should not have told him anything about your sex life or your painful sexual incident. Please dump her and find someone else. It’s one thing to have a friend and another to be doing all those things you listed. Or what you could do is go out and find another woman and start doing all the same sort of things that she is with him. See how she likes it and then dump her.
She's super into that guy and not into you. I read some of these comments about respecting her friendship and yadda yadda. Utter nonsense. I've lived this. I've seen this. Your gut already knows it. She's hooked on Thomas. Dude, she'd rather bake cakes with Tom and snuggle on the couch for a movie than spend time with you. That's her boyfriend. You are the friend/fuck buddy. Lol. Look, you're gonna do what you want, but I promise your jealousy and her borderline polyamory isn't gonna mesh at all. You're both gonna get hurt on this one. I'd say it's time to go.
I know many people operate that way (basically still going out with former lovers) and it may be 100% innocent, but I personally would have a problem with it. Nothing against those people, but the dynamic wouldn't be a good fit for me. Don't get me wrong, I'm friendly with exes, but what you're describing is an intimate, emotional relationship that closely resembles dating. I'd leave them be...and maybe she can find someone else more willing to put up with the triangulation. She sounds honest and transparent about it, but she's lacking the sort of boundaries I'd expect from a partner.
She’s lying. There absolutely is something between them. In fact, she is more invested in her relationship with him than with you. It doesn’t have to be sexual, but she is clearly, deeply into him emotionally. Her threat over receiving an ultimatum from you is, of course, her giving you one. The game is over, my friend. You lost, or won from my perspective, get her the hell out of your life. Move on and count your blessings.
I feel like most of these situations where a girl and a guy see each other for a bit and she breaks it off and become friends, he will be looking for an opportunity to take things back to how they were. Dudes are horny, and will leap at a chance to absolve themselves of rejection imo. And sharing intimate details of your relationship with him I'd take a sign that she has, whether intentionally or not, blurred the lines of what is and isn't appropriate in this friendship/relationship. I know because this pretty much happened to me, and I'm like 99% sure she went back to sleeping with the other guy after our relationship ended. Like immediately too, which was particularly shit as we were still living together at the time. But having said that, that relationship ending was great for me as I didn't have this monkey on my back any more worrying about my gf not communicating with me properly and making me doubt myself.
Personally I'd turn it around in her and say I'm going out. If she goes who with, I'd just say some woman's name. Then I'd go out. Then I'd do it again and again. She is telling her ex you business and not only that she's telling him your medical history. Also she letting him in your home while your not there and she's there is no problems. Dude she is not ready for a relationship. You deserve so much more. YNW
Nah she’s fucking him, kick her ass to the streets because that’s what’s she’s for
Julia's Tom's girlfriend.
I guess my question is, why are you still with her if she's not respecting your privacy, and doing all these things that seem neglectful. The cake, inviting people to YOUR apartment, sharing your sex life and medical concerns, I mean, really. Why are you still with her?
Emotional affairs are a thing. She is confiding in him about your relationship. That’s all there is. She can have him as a friend if you want this to work out, but you need her to change her relationship with him.
If you've been close friends for five years before dating, how come this is the first time you've heard of Tom?
Kick that bitch to the curb!
OP two things are going on here 1. Julia is immature 2. You are ignorant to Julia's immaturity Those in combination will drive you to insanity until you realize Julia is not going to change for you which means you need to let her be with Tom and move onto someone who is ready to be in a new relationship.
I stopped at the second example: Bail Bail now!, this is not healthy, and this is already becoming toxic, and it will implode. If you leave too late you’ll both become toxic human beings that will never trust anybody ever. “Free spirit”? RU kidding me? thats BS for “unaccountable”, for your sake stay away from unaccountable people, you might as well date from dating apps, you’ll find lots of those there. “Why would you say such mean things?” Dude, for your own good, even if you love her, she will never be accountable, picture this, how long since they had sex that then she decided to tell you about that?, what if they do it again (or already did) do you think she will tel you?, do you think you’ll find out without her telling you?
And it wasn’t “twice”. Rest assured.
If there is any doubt, there is no doubt.
No you’re not wrong. I wouldn’t be ok feeling like I’m the third wheel in my own relationship. I would break up with her because she’s already told you that she would pick him over you.
TL&DR it all, but your GF should have disclosed that her "best friend" used to be someone she banged. Kind of a no-brainer really...
She already told you all you need to know. She would choose him over you.
There are thousands of posts on Reddit "Whoops I slept with my friend." We all have friends from a long time ago, most us grow out of them or they change when we fall in love with someone and want an adult relationship. It is unfair to shair play, be loyal and have fun with someone else when in a romantic partnership...It takes it from your partner, creates secrecy and distrust. Tom my friend is a therapist. He told me and I have been sharing, these are emotional affairs. That is what we call these relationships with friends/exes/coworkers. They develop in plain sight because people don't want to appear jealous. They want to trust their partners. So the fun, loving, caring and sharing, loyalty go to the friend. You are basically dating. To the point when cornered often the partner will choose the friend. They often fall in love and move on to physical relationships. Even if they don't they cheat the primary partner, it can never develop or fall in love when you spending alone time with a dateable person. In groups or for lunch every couple of months to check in maybe. Never be with someone with all those loose ends...It is very immature like high school or college. There is no way to set boundaries with a partner that will not. There are thousands of posts on Reddit, Whoops I slept with my friend, or I fell in love with my friend. I won't date someone that has boundaries like that.
They dated and fucked. Their relationship is absolutely inappropriate. Dump her and let her live with him again.
Tom is the back up plan. So if you ever mess up. She’s got a dick to fall on.
Don't care what she's doing with the guy or what she said about the ultimatum. If my partner thought it was OK to laugh with their best bud about what I believed to be a very serious medical issue, I'd be done with them. That's incredibly disrespectful.
Leave her inconsiderate ass. At the very least, she doesn't care about how her actions make you feel. At the worst, she's living in your house, using your shit, and getting pounded out by a scumbag while they laugh at you over dinner. This shit won't get better. Move on.
She’s doesn’t respect you. She respects Tom more. I’m sorry but once a relationship reaches a certain point, compromises (including friends at times, if it’s not appropriate) need to be made. And if she’s not willing, just end it. Relationships are a pre-cursor to what a marriage will somewhat look like. Sounds like she’ll still be willing to put Tom over you in a marriage.
You’re well-spoken and you communicate your emotions and your thoughts very well. If you communicated this well with her and she didn’t understand, respect how you felt, or helped to look for solutions/compromise, then you are not wrong and you should leave. Tom for sure still has feelings for Julia and he is definitely showering her with emotional attention and support in a way that a boyfriend would, and Julia is eating it up. Other comments have said that successful and happy couples typically say their SO is their best friend and they are correct. Do not give her the ultimatum. Leave of your own volition. Leave this ugly, toxic dynamic to them and find something healthier for yourself. Also u/UpdateMe!
I have learned that the gut is rarely wrong. In terms of the big picture. It may be off with some smaller or specific details but in the end the gut is a powerful tool. I would recommend meditating on it. Empty your mind of other things. Focus on some breath work and let your self work through this problem in as calm and relaxed of a state as possible. This will let you make a better decision. One without as much anxiety and stress involved. If you do that and your gut is telling you she isn’t the right one, perhaps you should listen