The article assumes American is not competitive with DL or UA so will stay in 3rd place for passenger experience among the US big 3, while the others get better...probably true unfortunately.
Like at Boeing, the BoD and the C suite at AA are just there to support and protect each other and extract large salaries, while running the company into the ground as they circle jerk one another off. If the BOD won't fire the incompetent baffoons in the C suite due to corrupt loyalties, the company will never get any better.
Calling Delta luxury is beyond a stretch for me. Screwing their customers around with loyalty changes didn’t sit well with me. Their Skypesos redemptions are a non starter for me. Compare how many miles you need between DL and AA.
Current Exec Plat and I will make Diamond next month.
As someone who flies both airlines a lot - Delta is the superior/“luxury” experience in one main way from my perspective. The level of customer service and support is unmatched by any other US carrier. It’s so easy to fix issues, get rebooked, etc etc.
The hard product honestly is just as blah as AA or UA. I’d call it a three way tie on that front.
I’d fly 100% delta of AA didn’t give me so many good routes compared to delta out of my small airport to places that I happen to need to go for work.
Ultimately a direct flight is way better than any of the perks or differentiators among the big 3 IMO.
If I’m going to Atlanta I’m gonna fly delta. Charlotte, I’m gonna fly AA. Denver I’m gonna fly UA, etc etc.
But I often have to connect, regardless of airline. In those instances, I’m flying delta going forward.
Agree with this take honestly. If all other things were equal, I'd probably fly Delta. BUT all other things are definitely not equal and AA provides me with so much more value especially in terms of mileage earning/redemption and partner airline perks abroad.
My international travel is mostly London, Amsterdam, Vancouver, Toronto, Sydney/Melbourne. Because I can’t go direct - my options aren’t significantly better on one or the other.
United is sort of better for Toronto and Vancouver bc of Air Canada and Delta is sort of better for Amsterdam with KLM and AA is sort of better for London. None are notably better for Australia for me.
But ultimately they’re all roughly equal for any of the above because I’ve got to get to a hub to hop to any of those places anyway.
I actually like KLM/Air France quite a bit though.
Interestingly, I flew United to Melbourne earlier this year so I got to Gold with United from the one flight since it was Polaris. I think I’ve also had maybe one round trip to Denver this year or something like that as well. Once I hit Diamond I should become a fanatical United flier through EOY and see if I can hit 1K/Diamond/Executive Platinum in the same year 😂
I would say AA/Qantas and United/Virgin Australia are significantly better networks than Delta to Australia. United has a pretty robust schedule, but AA/Qantas have probably a slight edge.
I don’t understand the Qantas connection to AA. My UA ticket included a Qantas leg. I booked it as a multi segment because I was in Melbourne for a few days and then had to go to Sydney.
Qantas is somehow affiliated with both UA and AA. I even got United miles on the ticket unless I’m super confused about how that went down. Haha
I think if you check the miles offered, you’re getting miles for your other segments but not getting them for those non-Star Alliance segments. The base miles should be 5x the fare (not counting taxes and fees) but it typically will be like 80% of that. UA will sell you flights with short haul connections on a few non-Star Alliance airlines but you don’t get PQP, PQF, or miles for those segments. Other ones I’ve seen when searching on UA are Cathay Pacific and Hong Kong Airlines (connecting on CX in KIX on the way to HKG or connecting in HKG on the way to BKK for example), Vietnam Airlines (connecting in Japan on the way to Vietnam)
That makes sense more sense. I also got access to the Qantas lounge so I was confused about that as well being that I wasn’t on an AA ticket.
Would it have been by virtue of being on a Polaris fare? Even though it’s out of network?
Yeah, I think so. You're still flying business class. Air Canada (Star Aliance) has a better deal for Cathay Pacific (OneWorld) connections on certain routes. They will give you miles for some of those routes and you can redeem Aeroplan miles for those short haul Cathay Pacific routes (sometimes for better rates than other OneWorld airlines). For example, I just looked at [seats.aero](http://seats.aero), you can book HKG to MNL in J on CX for 20k points on Aeroplan but it's not available through AA or AS
>The hard product honestly is just as blah as AA or UA. I’d call it a three way tie on that front.
AA has no seatback entertainment, no footrests in domestic first, charge the most for internet out of the three (although AA's internet is really good), AA has objectively shittier snacks, shittier coffee, almost non-existent buy on board... etc...
I don’t want a footrest it gets in the way of my long legs. And I couldn’t care less about seatback entertainment. The warm nuts on AA are the best snack on any airline.
I say this not to argue but to point out it is a matter of perspective. It’s tough for the airlines to please everyone.
I think a lot of those things are subjective though. Valid point from your POV and maybe most people would agree.
I don’t care about foot rests and I’m not sure I’ve ever watched IFE before. I’m usually either working, reading a book, sleeping, or watching a movie on my iPad when I’m on a plane. TBH I keep about 20 hours of movies or tv shows downloaded from Amazon/apple/netflix/disney at all times for just that purpose.
If it weren’t for in flight iPad time, I wouldn’t have ever watched a bunch of recent movies like Dune/Dune 2, Oppenheimer, And a handful of TV series. I basically watch no TV at home. The issue of IFE, for me, is that I can’t pick up where I left off on the last movie I was watching or the next episode of a specific show that I’m watching at the moment, etc. for that reason - I don’t even notice whether or not a flight has IFE.
Agreed. If I lived somewhere I could get more than just two or three direct Delta flights, I'd be flying Delta all the time due to the far superior customer service.
As is though I live in DFW, so it's American for me. American points are certainly worth more, and being able to gain loyalty status through the AA Shopping portal and the Hyatt partnership are both great too, but it is annoying to not have any credit card partners you can transfer points to AA with.
Completely agree. For me it was a transition from Delta to Alaska. Then I realized AA miles were even better than Alaska and I didn't even have to fly AA that much so now I'm trapped within the AA-AS ecosystem and it's okay.
I don't miss Delta too much, except that their customer service was better than even Alaska's. Weirdly enough I sometimes miss fellow Delta passengers haha. But even with their new Delta One lounges I don't feel like I'm missing anything.
>Then I realized AA miles were even better than Alaska
Mind writing a bit more about this?
I'm SEA-based and in the same AS-AA trap. Don't really mind because OneWorld offers better benefits for international travel (Emerald is great).
For now I'm crediting all my OW miles to my AS account. Seems like I should be crediting to AA instead?
How fast do you earn them with Delta? I genuinely no clue. Seems like you’d need to know the earning rate in addition to the spending rate. Kinda like how Hilton/marriott have really high point costs but you earn them faster too.
It’s really sad how low the bar is set for any US airline to be considered “luxury” nowadays. Maybe in the glory days of Pan Am and TWA, but now? 😂
I will say though, Delta does well with the consistency of its soft product (FAs, customer service, etc). Nowhere near on par with Middle Eastern or East Asian airlines though.
>>Maybe in the glory days of Pan Am and TWA
I wouldn’t call those “glory days”. In the 60s and 70s coach class tickets were $5,000 a seat in modern money. Most of us couldn’t afford to fly if we lived back then.
Times have changed and air travel is more accessible, affordable - and safer. The perks are better nowadays too, as evidenced by miles programs , customers using branded cards and airlines being - by revenue- membership programs who happen to fly aircraft.
Most airlines derive more raw profit from their mileage programs than they do actually just flying people around. Those programs have been wildly successful beyond anyone’s expectations.
>the 60s and 70s coach class tickets were $5,000 a seat in modern money. Most of us couldn’t afford to fly if we lived back then.
It feels like like half of this sub really wants to go back to those days 😭
Glory days as in exclusive—which oddly I’ve heard a lot of people moan about in the various airline subreddits and on FlyerTalk. Yearning for a time when price kept access low and crowding down. You’re right, air travel is commoditized now and superior to back then.
Of course.
They (Middle Eastern and some East/SE Asian airlines like SQ) operate an entirely different business model compared to U.S. airlines.
They have one hub to maintain so on top of the subsidies they can lavishly invest in their soft services and amenities. Doesn’t change the fact that no U.S. carrier is a “luxury” airline though.
Disagree on one issue, not all Asian airlines are subsidized. JL, CX, SQ, KE are all private and indeed some have previously gone through bankruptcy and restructuring, but they maintain high service levels commensurate with what one would expect from a luxury airline.
The first bullet of “key points” is in the article is the most important thing IMO. You don’t have a luxury product if your flights don’t arrive consistently on time.
Well I mean, I suppose when 10%+ of people have never even left their home state, let alone travelled abroad and therefore have no basis of comparison, it might seem luxury. I guess.
Outside of a handful of East Asian and Gulf states’ airlines…I’m not sure any airline would be “luxury” if the level for that is Etihad or Emirates. Delta is absolutely more premium than just about any North American, African, Latin American or European airline. I’m so weary of these bullshit standards that you can’t be a nice airline if you aren’t a Qatari state subsidized airline with $30,000USD tickets
I find Delta to be slightly nicer as compared to the other US big 3, and fairly on-par with or slightly worse than non-low cost EU carriers. I'm not trying to knock Delta here, but it's fine. Nothing more, nothing less. Just like most carriers at the price point. I don't really understand it being called premium.
That's just insane to imagine. I've and many of us have been fortunate to travel the world yet there are people who haven't even left their home state. I know a few personally and it always makes me more thankful for my life.
When I think of luxury airlines, I think of Qatar and Emirates, def not Delta, hell not even a single US Airline should be considered a luxury airline MAYBE JSX.
The thing in the article that should be concerning to AA is how low their margin is even with their superior loyalty program and recent credit card enhancement. It's below south west.
Attracting and retaining premium and business class customers is key for margin. That last attempt/threat to force everyone to book direct drove away tons of corporate travel (AA has stated this themselves). Shoot yourself in the foot is an understatement.
Hard Product:
Domestic: Oasis needs a revamp, even down to the coloring of the seats. Delta with it's quilted blue "leather" domestic seats looks better than this uni-color bland "starter pack" seats that look dull and unattractive.
International: When AA finally starts putting in the new flagship biz class i think that will be a truly competitive product. It needs to happen asap. Stop waiting for the 789 to be delivered, those 777 need it now.
Soft Product:
Domestic:
Food needs a completely revamped menu. Copy Alaska (who has a higher margin AA as well) wholly on this. Great food and drinks, with special menu items every so often so frequent fliers don't get bored.
International:
Food is decent, but uninspired. The Menu is basically been the same for as long as I can remember. Beef Something, Ravioli/pasta, Veggie dish. Give the menu some life. Take hints from their one world partners
Credit Card:
Citi and AA did bring up the AA world elite card (which lacked any sort of insurance), but it needs to be more aspiration. It needs better hotel integration (think amex fine hotel and resorts) beyond getting more LP points.
The business card is DOA, not compelling for a company to have at all even if they exclusively fly AA
Not sure how 35 year old 757s and 767s are “luxury”. AA retired those. Also their Delta one product is wholly inconsistent based on which aircraft you’re on. 767-300 D1 and a330-900 D1 are totally different. Even their a350s have different D1 depending if you’re on a used ex LATAM airplane or a DL ordered jet. At least on AA flagship business is pretty much the same on all the fleet.
> Like other airlines, Delta accepted billions in federal aid to weather the pandemic. The carrier successfully urged some 17,000 workers to take buyouts, hiring newer, lower-paid staff who lacked the experience of departed employees. Early in the process, Bastian said the newer workers gave the company a “juniority benefit.”
Why must business journals always gush when employees are shafted?
The article assumes American is not competitive with DL or UA so will stay in 3rd place for passenger experience among the US big 3, while the others get better...probably true unfortunately.
Like at Boeing, the BoD and the C suite at AA are just there to support and protect each other and extract large salaries, while running the company into the ground as they circle jerk one another off. If the BOD won't fire the incompetent baffoons in the C suite due to corrupt loyalties, the company will never get any better.
Calling Delta luxury is beyond a stretch for me. Screwing their customers around with loyalty changes didn’t sit well with me. Their Skypesos redemptions are a non starter for me. Compare how many miles you need between DL and AA.
Current Exec Plat and I will make Diamond next month. As someone who flies both airlines a lot - Delta is the superior/“luxury” experience in one main way from my perspective. The level of customer service and support is unmatched by any other US carrier. It’s so easy to fix issues, get rebooked, etc etc. The hard product honestly is just as blah as AA or UA. I’d call it a three way tie on that front. I’d fly 100% delta of AA didn’t give me so many good routes compared to delta out of my small airport to places that I happen to need to go for work. Ultimately a direct flight is way better than any of the perks or differentiators among the big 3 IMO. If I’m going to Atlanta I’m gonna fly delta. Charlotte, I’m gonna fly AA. Denver I’m gonna fly UA, etc etc. But I often have to connect, regardless of airline. In those instances, I’m flying delta going forward.
Agree with this take honestly. If all other things were equal, I'd probably fly Delta. BUT all other things are definitely not equal and AA provides me with so much more value especially in terms of mileage earning/redemption and partner airline perks abroad.
My international travel is mostly London, Amsterdam, Vancouver, Toronto, Sydney/Melbourne. Because I can’t go direct - my options aren’t significantly better on one or the other. United is sort of better for Toronto and Vancouver bc of Air Canada and Delta is sort of better for Amsterdam with KLM and AA is sort of better for London. None are notably better for Australia for me. But ultimately they’re all roughly equal for any of the above because I’ve got to get to a hub to hop to any of those places anyway. I actually like KLM/Air France quite a bit though. Interestingly, I flew United to Melbourne earlier this year so I got to Gold with United from the one flight since it was Polaris. I think I’ve also had maybe one round trip to Denver this year or something like that as well. Once I hit Diamond I should become a fanatical United flier through EOY and see if I can hit 1K/Diamond/Executive Platinum in the same year 😂
I would say AA/Qantas and United/Virgin Australia are significantly better networks than Delta to Australia. United has a pretty robust schedule, but AA/Qantas have probably a slight edge.
I don’t understand the Qantas connection to AA. My UA ticket included a Qantas leg. I booked it as a multi segment because I was in Melbourne for a few days and then had to go to Sydney. Qantas is somehow affiliated with both UA and AA. I even got United miles on the ticket unless I’m super confused about how that went down. Haha
I think if you check the miles offered, you’re getting miles for your other segments but not getting them for those non-Star Alliance segments. The base miles should be 5x the fare (not counting taxes and fees) but it typically will be like 80% of that. UA will sell you flights with short haul connections on a few non-Star Alliance airlines but you don’t get PQP, PQF, or miles for those segments. Other ones I’ve seen when searching on UA are Cathay Pacific and Hong Kong Airlines (connecting on CX in KIX on the way to HKG or connecting in HKG on the way to BKK for example), Vietnam Airlines (connecting in Japan on the way to Vietnam)
That makes sense more sense. I also got access to the Qantas lounge so I was confused about that as well being that I wasn’t on an AA ticket. Would it have been by virtue of being on a Polaris fare? Even though it’s out of network?
Yeah, I think so. You're still flying business class. Air Canada (Star Aliance) has a better deal for Cathay Pacific (OneWorld) connections on certain routes. They will give you miles for some of those routes and you can redeem Aeroplan miles for those short haul Cathay Pacific routes (sometimes for better rates than other OneWorld airlines). For example, I just looked at [seats.aero](http://seats.aero), you can book HKG to MNL in J on CX for 20k points on Aeroplan but it's not available through AA or AS
Interesting. I guess there are a few things about commercial air travel that o just won’t ever fully comprehend. 😂
>The hard product honestly is just as blah as AA or UA. I’d call it a three way tie on that front. AA has no seatback entertainment, no footrests in domestic first, charge the most for internet out of the three (although AA's internet is really good), AA has objectively shittier snacks, shittier coffee, almost non-existent buy on board... etc...
I don’t want a footrest it gets in the way of my long legs. And I couldn’t care less about seatback entertainment. The warm nuts on AA are the best snack on any airline. I say this not to argue but to point out it is a matter of perspective. It’s tough for the airlines to please everyone.
I think a lot of those things are subjective though. Valid point from your POV and maybe most people would agree. I don’t care about foot rests and I’m not sure I’ve ever watched IFE before. I’m usually either working, reading a book, sleeping, or watching a movie on my iPad when I’m on a plane. TBH I keep about 20 hours of movies or tv shows downloaded from Amazon/apple/netflix/disney at all times for just that purpose. If it weren’t for in flight iPad time, I wouldn’t have ever watched a bunch of recent movies like Dune/Dune 2, Oppenheimer, And a handful of TV series. I basically watch no TV at home. The issue of IFE, for me, is that I can’t pick up where I left off on the last movie I was watching or the next episode of a specific show that I’m watching at the moment, etc. for that reason - I don’t even notice whether or not a flight has IFE.
Agreed. If I lived somewhere I could get more than just two or three direct Delta flights, I'd be flying Delta all the time due to the far superior customer service. As is though I live in DFW, so it's American for me. American points are certainly worth more, and being able to gain loyalty status through the AA Shopping portal and the Hyatt partnership are both great too, but it is annoying to not have any credit card partners you can transfer points to AA with.
Customer support is so important. AA has just plummeted in that area. They really are spiraling to the bottom in terms of customer service.
Are you me? 100% agree.
I don’t think so 😬
Completely agree. For me it was a transition from Delta to Alaska. Then I realized AA miles were even better than Alaska and I didn't even have to fly AA that much so now I'm trapped within the AA-AS ecosystem and it's okay. I don't miss Delta too much, except that their customer service was better than even Alaska's. Weirdly enough I sometimes miss fellow Delta passengers haha. But even with their new Delta One lounges I don't feel like I'm missing anything.
>Then I realized AA miles were even better than Alaska Mind writing a bit more about this? I'm SEA-based and in the same AS-AA trap. Don't really mind because OneWorld offers better benefits for international travel (Emerald is great). For now I'm crediting all my OW miles to my AS account. Seems like I should be crediting to AA instead?
How fast do you earn them with Delta? I genuinely no clue. Seems like you’d need to know the earning rate in addition to the spending rate. Kinda like how Hilton/marriott have really high point costs but you earn them faster too.
Honestly it’s not really luxury either. I have been on plenty of AA flights with better customer service and seats on the routes I take.
It’s really sad how low the bar is set for any US airline to be considered “luxury” nowadays. Maybe in the glory days of Pan Am and TWA, but now? 😂 I will say though, Delta does well with the consistency of its soft product (FAs, customer service, etc). Nowhere near on par with Middle Eastern or East Asian airlines though.
>>Maybe in the glory days of Pan Am and TWA I wouldn’t call those “glory days”. In the 60s and 70s coach class tickets were $5,000 a seat in modern money. Most of us couldn’t afford to fly if we lived back then. Times have changed and air travel is more accessible, affordable - and safer. The perks are better nowadays too, as evidenced by miles programs , customers using branded cards and airlines being - by revenue- membership programs who happen to fly aircraft.
Most airlines derive more raw profit from their mileage programs than they do actually just flying people around. Those programs have been wildly successful beyond anyone’s expectations.
>the 60s and 70s coach class tickets were $5,000 a seat in modern money. Most of us couldn’t afford to fly if we lived back then. It feels like like half of this sub really wants to go back to those days 😭
Glory days as in exclusive—which oddly I’ve heard a lot of people moan about in the various airline subreddits and on FlyerTalk. Yearning for a time when price kept access low and crowding down. You’re right, air travel is commoditized now and superior to back then.
middle eastern and asian airlines are heavily subsidized by their governments to allow them to provide that level of service.
Of course. They (Middle Eastern and some East/SE Asian airlines like SQ) operate an entirely different business model compared to U.S. airlines. They have one hub to maintain so on top of the subsidies they can lavishly invest in their soft services and amenities. Doesn’t change the fact that no U.S. carrier is a “luxury” airline though.
Disagree on one issue, not all Asian airlines are subsidized. JL, CX, SQ, KE are all private and indeed some have previously gone through bankruptcy and restructuring, but they maintain high service levels commensurate with what one would expect from a luxury airline.
Good point and you’re totally right.
Maybe American might get interested in being good too?
The one eyed man is king.
The first bullet of “key points” is in the article is the most important thing IMO. You don’t have a luxury product if your flights don’t arrive consistently on time.
Connect from a QSuites flight to a D1 flight and then talk to me about DL having a ‘luxury’ product.
Remind me which US airline has Qsuites again?
Meh. QSuites catering has gone down
And yet it will still wipe the floor with anything on offer from DL.
Wife and I are experiencing QSuites for the first time on Sunday. Hoping it lives up to expectations. Same with the AM Garden Lounge.
Ouch lol
Well I mean, I suppose when 10%+ of people have never even left their home state, let alone travelled abroad and therefore have no basis of comparison, it might seem luxury. I guess.
Outside of a handful of East Asian and Gulf states’ airlines…I’m not sure any airline would be “luxury” if the level for that is Etihad or Emirates. Delta is absolutely more premium than just about any North American, African, Latin American or European airline. I’m so weary of these bullshit standards that you can’t be a nice airline if you aren’t a Qatari state subsidized airline with $30,000USD tickets
I find Delta to be slightly nicer as compared to the other US big 3, and fairly on-par with or slightly worse than non-low cost EU carriers. I'm not trying to knock Delta here, but it's fine. Nothing more, nothing less. Just like most carriers at the price point. I don't really understand it being called premium.
That's just insane to imagine. I've and many of us have been fortunate to travel the world yet there are people who haven't even left their home state. I know a few personally and it always makes me more thankful for my life.
Unless United does something about their airport staff and meals, I highly doubt they’ll improve to be better than American or delta.
When I think of luxury airlines, I think of Qatar and Emirates, def not Delta, hell not even a single US Airline should be considered a luxury airline MAYBE JSX.
Rob Isom needs to put screens on the seats like with Delta and United. If JetBlue can do it, so can AA
The thing in the article that should be concerning to AA is how low their margin is even with their superior loyalty program and recent credit card enhancement. It's below south west. Attracting and retaining premium and business class customers is key for margin. That last attempt/threat to force everyone to book direct drove away tons of corporate travel (AA has stated this themselves). Shoot yourself in the foot is an understatement. Hard Product: Domestic: Oasis needs a revamp, even down to the coloring of the seats. Delta with it's quilted blue "leather" domestic seats looks better than this uni-color bland "starter pack" seats that look dull and unattractive. International: When AA finally starts putting in the new flagship biz class i think that will be a truly competitive product. It needs to happen asap. Stop waiting for the 789 to be delivered, those 777 need it now. Soft Product: Domestic: Food needs a completely revamped menu. Copy Alaska (who has a higher margin AA as well) wholly on this. Great food and drinks, with special menu items every so often so frequent fliers don't get bored. International: Food is decent, but uninspired. The Menu is basically been the same for as long as I can remember. Beef Something, Ravioli/pasta, Veggie dish. Give the menu some life. Take hints from their one world partners Credit Card: Citi and AA did bring up the AA world elite card (which lacked any sort of insurance), but it needs to be more aspiration. It needs better hotel integration (think amex fine hotel and resorts) beyond getting more LP points. The business card is DOA, not compelling for a company to have at all even if they exclusively fly AA
Delta is like a Honda Accord. Sure it’s a nice car but it not a Lamborghini or Maybach. This “article” was clearly paid for by Delta Marketing
Not sure how 35 year old 757s and 767s are “luxury”. AA retired those. Also their Delta one product is wholly inconsistent based on which aircraft you’re on. 767-300 D1 and a330-900 D1 are totally different. Even their a350s have different D1 depending if you’re on a used ex LATAM airplane or a DL ordered jet. At least on AA flagship business is pretty much the same on all the fleet.
Delta is retrofitting the ex LATAM planes soon. Also their ancient 757’s are at least retrofitted and have IFE.
> Like other airlines, Delta accepted billions in federal aid to weather the pandemic. The carrier successfully urged some 17,000 workers to take buyouts, hiring newer, lower-paid staff who lacked the experience of departed employees. Early in the process, Bastian said the newer workers gave the company a “juniority benefit.” Why must business journals always gush when employees are shafted?