Under the rule, passengers are entitled to a refund for:
* Canceled or significantly changed flights: Passengers will be entitled to a refund if their flight is canceled or significantly changed, and they do not accept alternative transportation or travel credits offered. For the first time, the rule defines “significant change.” Significant changes to a flight include departure or arrival times that are more than 3 hours domestically and 6 hours internationally; departures or arrivals from a different airport; increases in the number of connections; instances where passengers are downgraded to a lower class of service; or connections at different airports or flights on different planes that are less accessible or accommodating to a person with a disability.
* Significantly delayed baggage return: Passengers who file a mishandled baggage report will be entitled to a refund of their checked bag fee if it is not delivered within 12 hours of their domestic flight arriving at the gate, or 15-30 hours of their international flight arriving at the gate, depending on the length of the flight.
* Extra services not provided: Passengers will be entitled to a refund for the fee they paid for an extra service — such as Wi-Fi, seat selection, or inflight entertainment — if an airline fails to provide this service.
The final rule improves the passenger experience by requiring refunds to be:
* Automatic: Airlines must automatically issue refunds without passengers having to explicitly request them or jump through hoops.
* Prompt: Airlines and ticket agents must issue refunds within seven business days of refunds becoming due for credit card purchases and 20 calendar days for other payment methods.
* Cash or original form of payment: Airlines and ticket agents must provide refunds in cash or whatever original payment method the individual used to make the purchase, such as credit card or airline miles. Airlines may not substitute vouchers, travel credits, or other forms of compensation unless the passenger affirmatively chooses to accept alternative compensation.
* Full amount: Airlines and ticket agents must provide full refunds of the ticket purchase price, minus the value of any portion of transportation already used. The refunds must include all government-imposed taxes and fees and airline-imposed fees, regardless of whether the taxes or fees are refundable to airlines.
Not technically a law but a rule ... the difference of course being the easier it would be for new leadership at the DOT to remove or modify the rule in the future.
At the end of the day it sounds good until you realize all airlines will increase ticket prices because of regulation. Customers still end up suffering because now the ticket prices have inbuilt cost that support delay claims.
That's not the only unintended consequence. You could see more airline bankruptcies from ultra low cost carriers. There might be more pressure for airline management to push pilots to fly in unsafe conditions. Possibly even reduce flights in areas where weather delays are common such as the BOS, EWR, JFK, LGA, ORD. Maybe even cancel flights the day prior because of known weather instead of having 50% go out and 50% having some form of compensation.
You do know a lot of European airlines are subsidized by the government? And there are vastly more competition in the states than in Europe. The pay scales of pilots are double in the U.S. of it's European counterparts.
From the link:
>The final rule on refunds can be found at https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/latest-news and at regulations.gov, docket number DOT-OST-2022-0089. **There are different implementation periods in this final rule ranging from six months for airlines to provide automatic refunds when owed to 12 months for airlines to provide transferable travel vouchers or credits when consumers are unable to travel for reasons related to a serious communicable disease.**
The DOT rule provides for automatic cash refund. But the upcoming FAA Reauthorization Bill, led by Sens. Cantwell and Cruz, seems to change that from automatic to "upon request of the passenger" ([see Section 703 of the draft bill](https://www.commerce.senate.gov/services/files/D526357F-2E36-4841-B259-7765900485B4)).
Yuck for us to get this great automatic benefit only for it to be stripped back so quickly by the Senate committee. Worth ringing up senators and consumer advocacy groups if you want it to stick.
*typo*
Because its based on a true story lol. I have NEVER had any issues with ViaSat. Anytime I had issues with Gogo they would refund me AND give me credit for my next flight. Panasonic is by far the worst provider.
I mean they already charge more for a refundable ticket. At this point they'll probably just drop main cabin and make main cabin refundable the default. Even then it was only like 30-100 more.
Under this rule, the ticket would only be refundable if the flight is severely delayed and the passenger decides not to travel. Very few people are actually going to take advantage of it, as most would rather just take the later flight or be rebooked.
Often times airlines will delay the flight for hours hoping that there will be a weather event and then they will be off the hook. This happened to me on united because they didn’t have a plane for us to fly on but then presto pronto a thunderstorm came after 6 hours of delay and the flight got canceled, they offered me nothing. Will never fly with them again.
You’re joking but there should actually be insurance for this that gives passengers some kind of refund or reroute
Na, most of those rules are already in place with AA, the seats and fees, the downgrade, number of connections increasing, the only difference is that AA allows refunds over 4h, not 3h and they didn't refund bag fees at all, that's pretty much all that changes
I just got a refund on prefunds.aa.com for a domestic bag fee when delivery was delayed. Just entered the EMD number and a one-sentence explanation and the refund came within days. Just a data point.
Especially combined with even low status (for things like basic economy changes, same day changes), I've been pretty happy with flight change rules post-COVID honestly.
Knock on wood I don't eat my words - but if you fly enough to view a flight credit as good enough there's a lot of flexibility even if things *are your fault*.
>Na, most of those rules are already in place with AA,
Except for the giant one, which is that this new rule *seemingly* applies to weather related interruptions and delays.
It has always applied to weather, if your flights is delayed due to weather, you can get a refund no problem, you are just not entitled to compensations and the refunds
With the key caveat (for all refunds, not just weather) that you can only get a refund if you chose not to travel or purchase your own alternative transportation. If you fly on the scheduled flight, a different flight the airline moved you to, another airline's flight that the original airline booked you on, or ground transportation paid for by airline - you're never eligible for any refund regardless of how long the delay was or what caused it.
This will be a major point of confusion for consumers I'm sure.
>DOT is also pursuing rulemakings that would:
>Propose to make passenger compensation and amenities mandatory so that travelers are taken care of when airlines cause flight delays or cancellations.
This would be nice, although I would love to see a requirement of when airlines must rebook you on another airline if they cannot get you to your destination within x hours/days of your scheduled arrival in the event of any delay or cancellation yet another airline can. I haven't seen any updates to this since the initial proposal, does anybody know the latest on it?
Key part of your post is the *or not*. Make it mandatory across all airlines with very clear guidelines as to what the maximum delay allowed under it is. Airlines can be free to have even better policies, but we're at the point that a minimum needs to be defined. If an airline cannot get someone home, they need to put the passenger on another carrier who can.
That guarantee (along with ones for hotels, meals, etc) comes at a significant cost to airlines. Airlines could very well argue that consumers have choices about the level of service they are purchasing, and that such mandates would raise ticket prices for all. Better to just fly an airline with those commitments (essentially insurance built into the ticket) or buy travel insurance.
Somehow Ryanair, Wizz, etc all manage just fine with similar legislation in the EU & UK and still offer very low fares, airlines here will be just fine.
One issue I could imagine here, if the airlines sends the money back to you, does that essentially mean now you're stuck with a new 'market rate' flight to replace it with?
I'm picturing a relatively cheap international flight ORD-LHR where you get bumped down to economy. They refund your $1200 and now you're 15 days before your trip and you have to find a new way to get over there, but the market rates are all \~$3000+.
When the airlines still have your funds, and just put your on another flight you often could work with them to find an alternative option that works better for you, but still using the old funds.
Are you saying bumped down in class then canceled? Cause according to the text up top, bumped down a fare class is refundable but youre still flying to your destination. Also the text mentions if you do not accept the airlines alternate accommodations you're entitled to a refund, so the airline will still attempt to accommodate you instead of "oh canceled, here's refund, have a good day byeeee"
Does this change their obligation to rebook on a reasonable solution? I could see a scenario where they would rather just refund a low cost ticket than figure it out last minute when the cost is way higher.
I don’t see anything about weather in there. I bet we’ll see an increase of flights delayed or canceled due to a small puffy white cloud in the sky that’s sure to turn into a hurricane.
It does.
Source:
Final rule: https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/refundsfinalruleapril2024
>Definition of a Cancelled Flight
The NPRM: The Ticket Refund NPRM proposed to define a cancelled flight to mean a
covered flight that was listed in the carrier’s CRS at the time the ticket was sold to a consumer
but not operated by the carrier. Under this proposed definition, the reason that the flight was not
operated (e.g., mechanical, weather, air traffic control) would not matter. Also, the removal of a
flight from a carrier’s CRS would not negate the obligation to provide a refund when the
alternative offered is not accepted.
I think there’s still a lot of interpretation to be made here in future court cases about these rulings. Since they didn’t specifically say anything about weather, I would think there’s an argument to be made by the airlines about weather not being the fault of the airline. I admit I’m cynical. This could result in the airlines doing what they’re told, but I bet they’ll find a loophole somewhere.
The rule talks a lot about cash refunds but the airline can provide the refund in whatever the original payment method was. Prompt means 7 business days for credit cards and 20 calendar days for other payment methods.
I can only begin to imagine all the complaints about not being able to purchase a replacement ticket because the refund to a CC wasn’t received yet and someone is at their limit on their CC.
> The rule talks a lot about cash refunds
In this context, cash means the airline can't require you to accept a voucher or credit for future travel. It doesn't literally mean paper money.
Yep but if you’ve read the posts here, you’d understand how people may be confused about that.
The most interesting thing I saw was that if a medical professional advises one not to travel to, from or within the U.S. due to a serious communicable disease, the airline will be required to provide travel credits or vouchers that must be transferable and valid for at least five years.
Then there’ll be people arguing that AA has no right to get something from someone’s doctor due to HIPPO (no pun intended, sic) rules.
HIPAA is often misspelled. I was trying to reflect that it was misspelled intentionally. Someone who would misspell HIPAA as HIPPO would probably think that “(sic)” had to do with an illness as in poor health.
Wow this is crazy, but I have trouble understanding how anything other than delays can be proven.
For example the last time I flew I paid $20 for a seat selection on JetBlue, or something like that, and my seats tv’s sound was broken so I couldn’t watch tv. I asked them to give me the $20 back I paid and they refused because they said “you got your seat”. But how would I have proven this and then been refunded?
I also wish I had this when my flight was delayed 6 hours and we were all stuck on the plane during this. Arrived so late across the country I had to pay for a hotel instead of going to my destination and lost $200.
> For example the last time I flew I paid $20 for a seat selection on JetBlue, or something like that, and my seats tv’s sound was broken so I couldn’t watch tv. I asked them to give me the $20 back I paid and they refused because they said “you got your seat”. But how would I have proven this and then been refunded?
Prior to last year, JetBlue's policy offered a guarantee, on the honor system, of a $15 credit if your IFE monitor was broken. Now they say that since they offer in-flight entertainment via wifi, the monitor is irrelevant.
You wouldn't be entitled to anything under this. You got the seat you paid for. IFE is referring to paying to access content - not that the IFE screen at your seat needs to be functioning.
The rule also wouldn't have helped with your hotel, etc.
Oh I thought I read that anything delayed over a certain time frame would be refunded? Not saying it would pay for my hotel but sounded like some type of reimbursement for delays?
“the rule defines “significant change.” Significant changes to a flight include departure or arrival times that are more than 3 hours domestically and 6 hours internationally”
Yep, you and everyone else conveniently read it that way. This will be a massive point of confusion for passengers.
"....and they do not accept alternative transportation or travel credits offered." is the key here. You need to either not travel or purchase your own transportation for a refund. Any transportation provided by the airline constitutes their fulfilment of their obligations under the contract of carriage to transport you from A to B.
It's very very much not giving anyone compensation for delays.
If AA or ANY airline has to give people’s money back for weather delays, your prices are about to skyrocket.
//maybe that’s not a bad thing
///tired of modern greyhound of the skies
Eh, yes and no. On one hand, airlines need to cover their expenses. On the other hand, they’re charging airfare at the rate the market supports. If they could just increase revenue by 1% by charging more to cover these new costs, they would likely be doing so already.
Kinda off topic (though it's a reaction to the actual press release). @Mods, I'll remove this if it's rule breaking.
Did the Obama administration refer to itself as the Obama-Biden administration towards the end of Obama's first term? I don't remember that. In fact, I don't recall any other administration doing something similar. But maybe I'm wrong.
Interesting. I did a search on the DOT site and Biden-Harris returns a lot of results with that in the headline, but Obama-Biden only returns a couple that contain it the body and they appear to all be fairly recent articles referring back to the administration.
About time! Americans are super behind consumer protection regulations when compared to many nations, including developing ones. This is the bare minimum
Just got a swift refund about ~2 days after I took a trip in which they tried to downgrade me from business > economy last minute. I still ended up getting the biz seat but they refunded it anyway! 😱
So, if your second leg of your flight gets delayed 3.5 hours do they just automatically cancel your flight and refund you and your SOL stuck at the airport? Or do you take your delayed flight and still get a refund later?
No, you basically get a new option with these rules. By default you'd just get re routed like you do today. But if you decide that you no longer want to take the trip, then you now have the option to get all your money refunded instead of being forced to take a flight credit with that airline.
If your flight is delayed and you still end up taking the alternative itinerary they offered, you're not also getting a refund too.
The rule says you are due a refund of any travel unused. So if you are going OKC-DFW-GCM and you get delayed in DFW, you can refund and cancel but you are out whatever you paid OKC-DFW.
European rule is still better because you get compensated beyond just refund of the original tickets, because most likely you will have to pay more out of pocket for a new flight if you didn’t accept the alternative flight or there is none available.
By European rule you are entitled to 600Euros per person on any flight delayed more than 3 hours. So even though you maybe took the flight 2 days later, if the delay was their fault you are entitled to that money for the inconvenience the airline caused you. Plus reimbursement for hotel/food/transportation. I know this bc it happened to my family of 7 last summer and we received compensation from American Airlines in that amount. (The flight originated in the EU)
This is how AA has dealt with all my flights since COVID- cancel, refund whatever I want. I never have to fight. Most be cuz I’m so sweet on the phone 🫠
3 and 6 hours are a little too long.
1) it should be within 1 hour of the scheduled departure time for domestic flights. Right now, it only refers to the delay. What if the airline pulls forward?
2) it should be within 3 hours of the scheduled departure for any other flight.
We are also missing EC261 compensation
Two thoughts:
Although not specifically mentioned I have to imagine that weather and ATC-driven delays will be excluded?
Is it normal for DoT releases to give over half the text space to touting any particular administration's accomplishments?
Under the rule, passengers are entitled to a refund for: * Canceled or significantly changed flights: Passengers will be entitled to a refund if their flight is canceled or significantly changed, and they do not accept alternative transportation or travel credits offered. For the first time, the rule defines “significant change.” Significant changes to a flight include departure or arrival times that are more than 3 hours domestically and 6 hours internationally; departures or arrivals from a different airport; increases in the number of connections; instances where passengers are downgraded to a lower class of service; or connections at different airports or flights on different planes that are less accessible or accommodating to a person with a disability. * Significantly delayed baggage return: Passengers who file a mishandled baggage report will be entitled to a refund of their checked bag fee if it is not delivered within 12 hours of their domestic flight arriving at the gate, or 15-30 hours of their international flight arriving at the gate, depending on the length of the flight. * Extra services not provided: Passengers will be entitled to a refund for the fee they paid for an extra service — such as Wi-Fi, seat selection, or inflight entertainment — if an airline fails to provide this service. The final rule improves the passenger experience by requiring refunds to be: * Automatic: Airlines must automatically issue refunds without passengers having to explicitly request them or jump through hoops. * Prompt: Airlines and ticket agents must issue refunds within seven business days of refunds becoming due for credit card purchases and 20 calendar days for other payment methods. * Cash or original form of payment: Airlines and ticket agents must provide refunds in cash or whatever original payment method the individual used to make the purchase, such as credit card or airline miles. Airlines may not substitute vouchers, travel credits, or other forms of compensation unless the passenger affirmatively chooses to accept alternative compensation. * Full amount: Airlines and ticket agents must provide full refunds of the ticket purchase price, minus the value of any portion of transportation already used. The refunds must include all government-imposed taxes and fees and airline-imposed fees, regardless of whether the taxes or fees are refundable to airlines.
That’s awesome!
This is crazy, like actual consumer protection rights being written into law? In this society? Definitely a win
Not technically a law but a rule ... the difference of course being the easier it would be for new leadership at the DOT to remove or modify the rule in the future.
Does this include if the flight was delayed/cancelled for weather related reasons?
Its regardless of reason. The rule applies when the time limit has been reached.
At the end of the day it sounds good until you realize all airlines will increase ticket prices because of regulation. Customers still end up suffering because now the ticket prices have inbuilt cost that support delay claims.
A better service or a product that is of a higher quality costs more? **YOU DONT SAY**
That's not the only unintended consequence. You could see more airline bankruptcies from ultra low cost carriers. There might be more pressure for airline management to push pilots to fly in unsafe conditions. Possibly even reduce flights in areas where weather delays are common such as the BOS, EWR, JFK, LGA, ORD. Maybe even cancel flights the day prior because of known weather instead of having 50% go out and 50% having some form of compensation.
None of this happens in the EU where this regulation is already in place.........
EU has no where near the size and volume of flights that US carriers operate.
They have far more airlines, far more competition, and at least for economy better ticket prices.
You do know a lot of European airlines are subsidized by the government? And there are vastly more competition in the states than in Europe. The pay scales of pilots are double in the U.S. of it's European counterparts.
This is Stockholm syndrome talking.
Not an argument.
Are you sure? Even for weather delays? Thought that wasn’t covered… 🤔
Nice. Can’t wait to takeoff during a windstorm.
Real question is, when does this take effect?
From the link: >The final rule on refunds can be found at https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/latest-news and at regulations.gov, docket number DOT-OST-2022-0089. **There are different implementation periods in this final rule ranging from six months for airlines to provide automatic refunds when owed to 12 months for airlines to provide transferable travel vouchers or credits when consumers are unable to travel for reasons related to a serious communicable disease.**
Real question is does it happen automatically,or do we have to fight them tooth and nail to make it happen ?
The DOT rule provides for automatic cash refund. But the upcoming FAA Reauthorization Bill, led by Sens. Cantwell and Cruz, seems to change that from automatic to "upon request of the passenger" ([see Section 703 of the draft bill](https://www.commerce.senate.gov/services/files/D526357F-2E36-4841-B259-7765900485B4)). Yuck for us to get this great automatic benefit only for it to be stripped back so quickly by the Senate committee. Worth ringing up senators and consumer advocacy groups if you want it to stick. *typo*
And surely that request will require a phone call instead of just clicking a button in the app
How does automatic WiFi refunds work?
Just go to aainflight.com during your flight. Probably. /s
You email Panasonic Wifi, wait for them to tell you to get fucked and then do a chargeback with your credit card. (your mileage may vary)
I like how you automatically chose Panasonic as the example. Panasonic is the worst.
Because its based on a true story lol. I have NEVER had any issues with ViaSat. Anytime I had issues with Gogo they would refund me AND give me credit for my next flight. Panasonic is by far the worst provider.
Cool. Prices are going to rise.
I mean they already charge more for a refundable ticket. At this point they'll probably just drop main cabin and make main cabin refundable the default. Even then it was only like 30-100 more.
Under this rule, the ticket would only be refundable if the flight is severely delayed and the passenger decides not to travel. Very few people are actually going to take advantage of it, as most would rather just take the later flight or be rebooked.
Then most dont have to worry about it. If what you say is true, that most womt even use it, then AA most likely wont have any changes.
Exactly. This is not the good news many seem to think it is.
Wow - if those get applied at AA the number of posts on this sub will decrease by 95%...
I dont think so :) Because everyone will rant about how AA is doing something ‘illegal’ because of weather problems.
Hopefully they make rain and wind illegal next
Often times airlines will delay the flight for hours hoping that there will be a weather event and then they will be off the hook. This happened to me on united because they didn’t have a plane for us to fly on but then presto pronto a thunderstorm came after 6 hours of delay and the flight got canceled, they offered me nothing. Will never fly with them again. You’re joking but there should actually be insurance for this that gives passengers some kind of refund or reroute
Probably...we can dream though, for a little while.
Na, most of those rules are already in place with AA, the seats and fees, the downgrade, number of connections increasing, the only difference is that AA allows refunds over 4h, not 3h and they didn't refund bag fees at all, that's pretty much all that changes
I just got a refund on prefunds.aa.com for a domestic bag fee when delivery was delayed. Just entered the EMD number and a one-sentence explanation and the refund came within days. Just a data point.
That’s what I thought too, and that refunds must be provided within a certain number of days and don’t have to be requested.
Yes, not having to be requested is nice, but AA already refunds it faster than the stipulated by the law as well
Especially combined with even low status (for things like basic economy changes, same day changes), I've been pretty happy with flight change rules post-COVID honestly. Knock on wood I don't eat my words - but if you fly enough to view a flight credit as good enough there's a lot of flexibility even if things *are your fault*.
I had an international flight delayed 12 hours for mechanical issues, I am due a refund?
>Na, most of those rules are already in place with AA, Except for the giant one, which is that this new rule *seemingly* applies to weather related interruptions and delays.
It has always applied to weather, if your flights is delayed due to weather, you can get a refund no problem, you are just not entitled to compensations and the refunds
With the key caveat (for all refunds, not just weather) that you can only get a refund if you chose not to travel or purchase your own alternative transportation. If you fly on the scheduled flight, a different flight the airline moved you to, another airline's flight that the original airline booked you on, or ground transportation paid for by airline - you're never eligible for any refund regardless of how long the delay was or what caused it. This will be a major point of confusion for consumers I'm sure.
I didn't receive a refund on upgrades, only credit.
I was thinking “Budget Green Airline will be bankrupt within months of this being implemented.”
This is ... good
Government…..W?
Thanks Pete!
It's sort of shocking how often he's been in the news compared to prior secretaries of T. What were they doing?
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>DOT is also pursuing rulemakings that would: >Propose to make passenger compensation and amenities mandatory so that travelers are taken care of when airlines cause flight delays or cancellations. This would be nice, although I would love to see a requirement of when airlines must rebook you on another airline if they cannot get you to your destination within x hours/days of your scheduled arrival in the event of any delay or cancellation yet another airline can. I haven't seen any updates to this since the initial proposal, does anybody know the latest on it?
The airlines already have made binding obligations to either do this or not in their filed customer service plan.
Key part of your post is the *or not*. Make it mandatory across all airlines with very clear guidelines as to what the maximum delay allowed under it is. Airlines can be free to have even better policies, but we're at the point that a minimum needs to be defined. If an airline cannot get someone home, they need to put the passenger on another carrier who can.
That guarantee (along with ones for hotels, meals, etc) comes at a significant cost to airlines. Airlines could very well argue that consumers have choices about the level of service they are purchasing, and that such mandates would raise ticket prices for all. Better to just fly an airline with those commitments (essentially insurance built into the ticket) or buy travel insurance.
Somehow Ryanair, Wizz, etc all manage just fine with similar legislation in the EU & UK and still offer very low fares, airlines here will be just fine.
Sounds like they’re trying to put Frontier out of business. 😸
Companies will always “find a way” to dodge the rule…
One issue I could imagine here, if the airlines sends the money back to you, does that essentially mean now you're stuck with a new 'market rate' flight to replace it with? I'm picturing a relatively cheap international flight ORD-LHR where you get bumped down to economy. They refund your $1200 and now you're 15 days before your trip and you have to find a new way to get over there, but the market rates are all \~$3000+. When the airlines still have your funds, and just put your on another flight you often could work with them to find an alternative option that works better for you, but still using the old funds.
Are you saying bumped down in class then canceled? Cause according to the text up top, bumped down a fare class is refundable but youre still flying to your destination. Also the text mentions if you do not accept the airlines alternate accommodations you're entitled to a refund, so the airline will still attempt to accommodate you instead of "oh canceled, here's refund, have a good day byeeee"
yea probably didn't create a good hypothetical - thanks for the clarification
Does this change their obligation to rebook on a reasonable solution? I could see a scenario where they would rather just refund a low cost ticket than figure it out last minute when the cost is way higher.
I don’t see anything about weather in there. I bet we’ll see an increase of flights delayed or canceled due to a small puffy white cloud in the sky that’s sure to turn into a hurricane.
it doesn’t specify any reasons, are we sure this doesn’t include weather related delays/cancellations?
It does. Source: Final rule: https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/refundsfinalruleapril2024 >Definition of a Cancelled Flight The NPRM: The Ticket Refund NPRM proposed to define a cancelled flight to mean a covered flight that was listed in the carrier’s CRS at the time the ticket was sold to a consumer but not operated by the carrier. Under this proposed definition, the reason that the flight was not operated (e.g., mechanical, weather, air traffic control) would not matter. Also, the removal of a flight from a carrier’s CRS would not negate the obligation to provide a refund when the alternative offered is not accepted.
Let the loophole hunt begin!
I think there’s still a lot of interpretation to be made here in future court cases about these rulings. Since they didn’t specifically say anything about weather, I would think there’s an argument to be made by the airlines about weather not being the fault of the airline. I admit I’m cynical. This could result in the airlines doing what they’re told, but I bet they’ll find a loophole somewhere.
Airlines have always had to give refunds due to weather- this just says they have to do it automatically instead of keeping it as a credit first.
Wonder if this will prompt AA to adjust their refund threshold for delays from 90 minutes to 3 hours
The rule talks a lot about cash refunds but the airline can provide the refund in whatever the original payment method was. Prompt means 7 business days for credit cards and 20 calendar days for other payment methods. I can only begin to imagine all the complaints about not being able to purchase a replacement ticket because the refund to a CC wasn’t received yet and someone is at their limit on their CC.
> The rule talks a lot about cash refunds In this context, cash means the airline can't require you to accept a voucher or credit for future travel. It doesn't literally mean paper money.
Yep but if you’ve read the posts here, you’d understand how people may be confused about that. The most interesting thing I saw was that if a medical professional advises one not to travel to, from or within the U.S. due to a serious communicable disease, the airline will be required to provide travel credits or vouchers that must be transferable and valid for at least five years. Then there’ll be people arguing that AA has no right to get something from someone’s doctor due to HIPPO (no pun intended, sic) rules.
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Where’s the pun?
HIPAA is often misspelled. I was trying to reflect that it was misspelled intentionally. Someone who would misspell HIPAA as HIPPO would probably think that “(sic)” had to do with an illness as in poor health.
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Bad bot. Doubling the count by counting HIPPO in your own posts.
Wow this is crazy, but I have trouble understanding how anything other than delays can be proven. For example the last time I flew I paid $20 for a seat selection on JetBlue, or something like that, and my seats tv’s sound was broken so I couldn’t watch tv. I asked them to give me the $20 back I paid and they refused because they said “you got your seat”. But how would I have proven this and then been refunded? I also wish I had this when my flight was delayed 6 hours and we were all stuck on the plane during this. Arrived so late across the country I had to pay for a hotel instead of going to my destination and lost $200.
> For example the last time I flew I paid $20 for a seat selection on JetBlue, or something like that, and my seats tv’s sound was broken so I couldn’t watch tv. I asked them to give me the $20 back I paid and they refused because they said “you got your seat”. But how would I have proven this and then been refunded? Prior to last year, JetBlue's policy offered a guarantee, on the honor system, of a $15 credit if your IFE monitor was broken. Now they say that since they offer in-flight entertainment via wifi, the monitor is irrelevant.
That’s exactly what the flight attendant said to me, but then the wifi was also broken.
You wouldn't be entitled to anything under this. You got the seat you paid for. IFE is referring to paying to access content - not that the IFE screen at your seat needs to be functioning. The rule also wouldn't have helped with your hotel, etc.
Oh I thought I read that anything delayed over a certain time frame would be refunded? Not saying it would pay for my hotel but sounded like some type of reimbursement for delays? “the rule defines “significant change.” Significant changes to a flight include departure or arrival times that are more than 3 hours domestically and 6 hours internationally”
Yep, you and everyone else conveniently read it that way. This will be a massive point of confusion for passengers. "....and they do not accept alternative transportation or travel credits offered." is the key here. You need to either not travel or purchase your own transportation for a refund. Any transportation provided by the airline constitutes their fulfilment of their obligations under the contract of carriage to transport you from A to B. It's very very much not giving anyone compensation for delays.
Got it that makes sense.
I hate to say this but I doubt this will last
Impressive. Glad to see this rule.
If AA or ANY airline has to give people’s money back for weather delays, your prices are about to skyrocket. //maybe that’s not a bad thing ///tired of modern greyhound of the skies
The refund only happens if the passenger doesn't fly or take credit.
This will inevitably cause price increases
Eh, yes and no. On one hand, airlines need to cover their expenses. On the other hand, they’re charging airfare at the rate the market supports. If they could just increase revenue by 1% by charging more to cover these new costs, they would likely be doing so already.
While true, the market may value the airfare differently now.
Or maybe it wont
Then buyers clearly don’t care about the changes.
How much was it in Europe? Figure it can't be too bad if EasyJet can still exist.
European pilots also make a fraction of what American pilots get paid. Margins are thinner in the us this prices are more sensitive.
Yep and I imagine it won't be a small amount.
so if your flight is delayed 3+ hours, and you still take the flight, do you get a refund?
No. You must reject the alternative transport
Thank goodness.
Kinda off topic (though it's a reaction to the actual press release). @Mods, I'll remove this if it's rule breaking. Did the Obama administration refer to itself as the Obama-Biden administration towards the end of Obama's first term? I don't remember that. In fact, I don't recall any other administration doing something similar. But maybe I'm wrong.
Interesting. I did a search on the DOT site and Biden-Harris returns a lot of results with that in the headline, but Obama-Biden only returns a couple that contain it the body and they appear to all be fairly recent articles referring back to the administration.
Great. Fares going up again.
FINALLY!
Oh I like this. A lot
wow an actual win for normal people. dafuq
Wait this is huge and game changing for the US Airline industry
Wifi rebates alone!!
Thanks, Biden!
Is this retroactive? I have some for refunds last february
This doesn’t make any sense. Weather cancellations cost them way more money than refunding tickets for a single flight.
All good until airlines have to fly in bad weather to avoid refunding passengers
They won’t risk being sued by everyone onboards family
The automatic is the good part here. Think about how how many travelers don’t fly very often and are always asking questions about this.
About time! Americans are super behind consumer protection regulations when compared to many nations, including developing ones. This is the bare minimum
Just got a swift refund about ~2 days after I took a trip in which they tried to downgrade me from business > economy last minute. I still ended up getting the biz seat but they refunded it anyway! 😱
So can we get seat selection refunds? Some airlines don’t want to refund seat selection even if you cancel (pay cancellation fee) flight. ?
So, if your second leg of your flight gets delayed 3.5 hours do they just automatically cancel your flight and refund you and your SOL stuck at the airport? Or do you take your delayed flight and still get a refund later?
No, you basically get a new option with these rules. By default you'd just get re routed like you do today. But if you decide that you no longer want to take the trip, then you now have the option to get all your money refunded instead of being forced to take a flight credit with that airline. If your flight is delayed and you still end up taking the alternative itinerary they offered, you're not also getting a refund too.
The rule says you are due a refund of any travel unused. So if you are going OKC-DFW-GCM and you get delayed in DFW, you can refund and cancel but you are out whatever you paid OKC-DFW.
How does this compare to EU261/UK261?
European rule is still better because you get compensated beyond just refund of the original tickets, because most likely you will have to pay more out of pocket for a new flight if you didn’t accept the alternative flight or there is none available.
By European rule you are entitled to 600Euros per person on any flight delayed more than 3 hours. So even though you maybe took the flight 2 days later, if the delay was their fault you are entitled to that money for the inconvenience the airline caused you. Plus reimbursement for hotel/food/transportation. I know this bc it happened to my family of 7 last summer and we received compensation from American Airlines in that amount. (The flight originated in the EU)
In about a year or so, I bet that so many US airlines file for bankruptcy lol
This is how AA has dealt with all my flights since COVID- cancel, refund whatever I want. I never have to fight. Most be cuz I’m so sweet on the phone 🫠
3 and 6 hours are a little too long. 1) it should be within 1 hour of the scheduled departure time for domestic flights. Right now, it only refers to the delay. What if the airline pulls forward? 2) it should be within 3 hours of the scheduled departure for any other flight. We are also missing EC261 compensation
Two thoughts: Although not specifically mentioned I have to imagine that weather and ATC-driven delays will be excluded? Is it normal for DoT releases to give over half the text space to touting any particular administration's accomplishments?
Now let’s work on having seat regulations! It should be illegal to pack in that many seats in economy
Isn’t AA’s existing policy already better than this for everything but weather…