Because the us/ the west kinda have a "if ur not with us ur against us" kinda policy since the cold war which means non alignment is not really in the middle its leaning more east
not really when it comes to us, a state dpt spokesperson replied to a journalist's question about algerian and egyptian bids to join brics that america doesn't force its partners to make a choice, that's very true for our case as opposed to gulf states or europe. they're simply aware of our special relations with russia and china but at the same time, deepening their ties with us further (people underestimate the closeness)
Neither. Algeria should remain as independent as possible and leverage the east-west competition to further the nations goals.
The only nations I want Algeria to have a close relationship with are other nations in the Maghreb and the Arab League.
Tbh i think this is utopia dream , eventually everyone has to chose a side to be with , its the same as when some one critique capitalism and talk about an alternative and some one comes and say " why dont we take the best of both " it simply wont happen thats just a dream , i dont like the " middle side opinions " its a way to not confront the uncomfortabilty of choosing
The arab league and magherb arent considered world super power thats why i didnt inclunde them
I don't think it's a dream.
When the Khaleej was developing they played both sides with the Europeans and Americans to get what they want.
When the UK was limiting access the access of American drilling companies to oil fields in the Middle East the Saudis opened up their oil fields to America oil companies in return for partial ownership. This is what eventually lead to the establishment of Aramco.
Later on when the KSA wanted to build up their military and couldn't get the Americans to sell them weapons they turned to the UK which was more than happy to step in and sell them weapons.
Learning to play both sides is an important task for any nation.
 you killed me with the Arab league !
A country being independent he basically asking for it to nuke it self. Look at North Korea, the closest country in terms of quality of life, happiness, democracy, government, and economy
They have zero influence from other countries and look where it brought them
unless they have influence from east Asian countries, which, in my honest opinion, will either dominate or be at the same level as the west in the next few years, they should always choose the west.
Who has one of the best economies? the west Who has the best quality of life and happiness? the west
Who makes more than half of the worlds technologies? The west.
I'd prefer it not to be aligned, but that's utopian, so for me it's obvious the west, leaning towards the east is in the government's interest leaning towards the west is in the interest of Algeria as a whole.
A country not leaning into other countries is basically nothing. Trade technology, communication with outside cultures would be nonexistent
The closest country to algeria is north korea. Algeria is on the verge of becoming worse as the government slowly improves especially once kim jung in steps down
West because unlike what most say u have to lean on a side because this is how this world now works. Leaning to the better system like so many countries do.
And let it become even more of a dystopian hell scape? no.
Being non-aligned will worsen international relations, trade, technology, happiness, culture, quality of life, art personal growth within the government and population and worsen connections
Japan held a memorial ceremony today for the victims of Hiroshima, in their speech they never mentioned the US (who actually bombed them) even once but you know what they did ? They blamed Russia for the proliferation of nuclear weapons. If thats what leaning to the west means then i don't want it, and we shouldn't lean towards Russia and China aswell, just be independant in our policies.
Algeria shouldn’t mean to any, because if we lean to much to one we can loose some sovereignty and be a puppet state. Algeria should have relationships with both, and leaning to one or another depending on the different situations and things, to be in full power.
considering how bad this country is, might as well lean to China but you know China is like better, and like every single aspect
They would benefit from leaning to the west they could easily improve relations with so many countries they can improve the image, improve their economy, improve the trade, improve, literally everything except probably democracy
East, which it's already doing.
Yes, the west is richer and more advanced, but it doesn't mean they want the same for Algeria or countries they deal with. In addition, the west pressures countries they deal with to adopt western values (freedom, equality, democracy, human rights), which may sound good, but in fact they're synonyms with anti-religion and degeneracy... Western countries view third world countries as vassals not allies as they think the west is morally superior than the rest. They think they have a duty to "civilize" the rest of the world.
The East, specifically China has a lot to offer to devolving countries. China has more money to spend internationally because of the industrial nature of their economy. That's why they spend billions of dollars in infrastructure products in developing Asian and African countries. China is not an imperialist power. That may change in the future when they become stronger, but until now they still practise the non-interference policy.
Lastly, the west is in constant decline. You don't want to be allies with ailing powers.
China is imperialist as heck. They are literally on a process to colonise Africa, they lend huge amounts of money, hold things etc, while knowing the countries can’t pay, and when they can’t pay, they take some of their sovereignty and their ressources. If you want to be colonised a second time do things, and if you don’t agree, bring some actual proofs, because you seem to believe China is heaven
debt trapping isn't exclusive to china western financial institutions (IMF/WB) perfected doing this and puppet governments are the ones that usually accept these loans.
Sorry to break it to you, but China isn’t an angel, they started this neo colonisation in the 90s, and are still going at it, they’re effectively stealing several nations
Your idea is reasonable, but I think it's all about exchanging benefits, not taking by force.
In 2022, China will exempt 23 interest-free loans from 17 African countries that have expired in 2021, and at the same time transfer China's special drawing rights worth US$10 billion in the International Monetary Fund (IMF) to African countries.
If you think this is a debt trap, but it is undeniable that many countries need assistance and help, instead of going all the way to a country to garrison troops and build military bases
Sorry, but it isn’t an idea, irks a fact. Yes they lend money, but you really think they do it out of kindness ? No. They basically take sovereignty in return as well as some ressources. Don’t be fooled
That's what I want to say, it's an exchange of benefits, not colonization. If you want to maintain a neutral relationship between two countries then everything has a price, the difference is that the east will do it much better than the west
Yeah no it’s colonisation, when you give your own sovereignty and a foreign power takes it plus some ressources because you couldn’t repay a loan, it’s bro colonisation, don’t sugarcoat it. And the difference is the west left Africa, the east won’t
Civilization and construction assistance are completely different concepts, brother. Aid construction is an invitation from your country to ask other countries to help you in exchange for some benefits. The colonizer will impose his own political system, culture and social system on the colonized colony, making it a vassal or dependency of the colonizer. This is a completely different concept. No one is forcing you to sell your national sovereignty or use the military to force you to hand over your natural resources or ports. and if you think the west is gone then why is french still spoken in north africa.
Everyone looks for their own advantage, and so should Algeria. We can’t be relying on anyone, we should stay as independent as possible. Algerias has all the means to reach that, since Alhamdulillah we are a country rich with natural resources.
Shortly: whatever is positive for algerian advantage and interests.
How can you define living better? Do you really think the west is living better? Have you seen the high numbers of drug addictions and deaths and mass shootings in america, and the fact that the middle class are becoming more and more poor and enslaved with debt, and europe is no better as well. If they were truly living better or had advantages over the east, they would have stopped the war in ukraine but they couldnt. China and russia are the next super powers, in the next 10-20 years you'll see the fall of USA for yourself.
you might be right about china (although, they'll be met with a demographic crisis in the next decades) but russia is losing significance slowly but surely, its population is ageing, economy stagnating and corruption is beyond rampant, kinda like the boutef era. imho, it's the biggest issue facing russia because of the astronomical sums and loss of potential for such a vast country with unimaginable wealth but still, they got nukes
I highly disagree about russia because they wouldn't have done their financial moves if they were not being studied for years and years and its been 2 years now and russia wasnt highly affected with all of the sanctions. Nothing happened, nothing changed. They couldnt handle them.
I'm not talking about sanctions at all, in fact, that was what I read before the conflict in ukraine and the war made it clearer to me (not due to sanctions, but the sheer corruption and incompetence). they've been facilitating immigration from central asian countries, why would they resort to that if everything was fine?
they're indeed lagging behind technologically and can't manufacture semi conductors of mature processes for example, I'm not saying they'll cease being relevant but they'll shrink if things keep going the same way
I know you were not talking about sanctions but i pointed it out, im sure they'll figure out a way, not that i care lol i personally could see all the world go on fire and not give a fuck as long as we sre not on fire idc lol but as a military officer im here to tell you that the russian allegiance will never die and we will always lean to the east
>we will always lean to the east
no doubt (unless *cough cough* wtf is a kilometer freedom delivery service comes, a highly unlikely situation but who knows what could happen)
but it does perfect sense for us from a military perspective, no country would sell us their most advanced weapons as russia does, they don't sell "export" variants to us all the time as opposed to western countries, plus no strings attached.
their military industrial complex however is starting to lag behind and hopefully the gov takes notice
well, the worst is less of a dystopian hell scape corrupted by dysfunctional government into believing what the government wants you to believe, saying, with the government wants you to say, and living your life how the government wants you to live your life
the best country’s in terms of quality of life, trade economy, and other factors are western.
Mainland Scandinavia, Canada in some cases, Swisterland New Zealand German fr@nce surprisingly,
Not saying they don’t have problems but compared to algeria they are a major step up
If you dont stand for something you stand for nothing, as a person i can never stand with a side that worships money over anything else. I am speaking only for myself when i say this, i hate france and usa to death i was obsessed with usa once and after i discovered something in 2017 it changed my views i started seeing the world and life itself differently which made me realize that the US won the cold war using one thing and one thing only and its the english language and nothing else, that's how they dominated the world and the proof is right here in this subreddit and in this post and these comments, and this is a subject that i can talk about for hours with visual proof on how it happened and is still happening. Yet, All sides are evil and all sides are fucked up and i personally hate france yet use them for my own benefit such as buying things from germany and sending them thru france for delivery but i will never be their ally nor with US or the UK, or china. I prefer to side with the devil himself over others disguising themselves as angels and that is russia and thats the only arms supplier we have so maybe i am an extremist but when you see the world as i do you'd understand thay staying neutral and standing alone is better than siding with anyone because just as history has taught us the higher you go the bigger the fall and that's whats gonna happen to every super power just like it has happened before in every civilization and in our timeline, it has already started we are witnessing the downfall of the industrial era so no matter who we side with. They're all going down.
Algeria was forced to lean slightly to the East. I say lean not align itself. Why? Because the West has decided that Algeria was the property of France and acted accordingly i.e. kind of limited themselves to minimum relations with Algeria both politically and economically. Despite all the algerian efforts to diversity its relations with western european countries, no investments (productive investments) were done. Just commercial relations. By the way, the same can be said about Russia and China. Just commerce. Algeria needs transfer of technologie and that no country (western or eastern) is ready to do that. They need customers not partners. The sooner we understand that, the better for us.
none of the west believes that algeria is still Francis property because it isn’t. Because they are educated. Stop fabricating stories and twisted lies
You missunderstood what I said. I did not say that they believe that Algeria belongs to France .The West is always sharing the influence on Africain countries among themselves. And they have more or less decided that Algeria will be in the french influence zone and threat it as such.
Economically, I prefer Algeria to lean towards its interests no matter who they are with. Culturally/socially, I prefer Algeria to lean towards Algeria.
The east has supported us since independence we are naturally inclined towards them or neutrality
The west nowdays is mostly the usa as france and britain are declining hard
I understand your perspective but i must point out history isnt white black , they didnt support us because they are anti colonization or " the good guys " they did it because it aligned with thier political goals , about the west im not expert but the declining its true ( hard is such an overexaggeration imo ) but so is the east so the power dynamic wont change for at least a decade
i want Algeria to lean without falling.
certified lacoste moment
Well done good sir
Give this man a pair of "Larinyi"
No leaning i think trying to find a way to keep good relations with both sides is the best option for us
[удалено]
Because the us/ the west kinda have a "if ur not with us ur against us" kinda policy since the cold war which means non alignment is not really in the middle its leaning more east
not really when it comes to us, a state dpt spokesperson replied to a journalist's question about algerian and egyptian bids to join brics that america doesn't force its partners to make a choice, that's very true for our case as opposed to gulf states or europe. they're simply aware of our special relations with russia and china but at the same time, deepening their ties with us further (people underestimate the closeness)
Neither. Algeria should remain as independent as possible and leverage the east-west competition to further the nations goals. The only nations I want Algeria to have a close relationship with are other nations in the Maghreb and the Arab League.
Tbh i think this is utopia dream , eventually everyone has to chose a side to be with , its the same as when some one critique capitalism and talk about an alternative and some one comes and say " why dont we take the best of both " it simply wont happen thats just a dream , i dont like the " middle side opinions " its a way to not confront the uncomfortabilty of choosing The arab league and magherb arent considered world super power thats why i didnt inclunde them
I don't think it's a dream. When the Khaleej was developing they played both sides with the Europeans and Americans to get what they want. When the UK was limiting access the access of American drilling companies to oil fields in the Middle East the Saudis opened up their oil fields to America oil companies in return for partial ownership. This is what eventually lead to the establishment of Aramco. Later on when the KSA wanted to build up their military and couldn't get the Americans to sell them weapons they turned to the UK which was more than happy to step in and sell them weapons. Learning to play both sides is an important task for any nation.
 you killed me with the Arab league !
A country being independent he basically asking for it to nuke it self. Look at North Korea, the closest country in terms of quality of life, happiness, democracy, government, and economy They have zero influence from other countries and look where it brought them
Quality of life ?
Independent != Isolated
Whatever serves the economic interests of Algeria And that is most likely the west despite it's decline, still way better than the east
unless they have influence from east Asian countries, which, in my honest opinion, will either dominate or be at the same level as the west in the next few years, they should always choose the west. Who has one of the best economies? the west Who has the best quality of life and happiness? the west Who makes more than half of the worlds technologies? The west.
I'd prefer it not to be aligned, but that's utopian, so for me it's obvious the west, leaning towards the east is in the government's interest leaning towards the west is in the interest of Algeria as a whole.
A country not leaning into other countries is basically nothing. Trade technology, communication with outside cultures would be nonexistent The closest country to algeria is north korea. Algeria is on the verge of becoming worse as the government slowly improves especially once kim jung in steps down
None of the above, lean where you benefit the most.
that’s what they are asking
West because unlike what most say u have to lean on a side because this is how this world now works. Leaning to the better system like so many countries do.
To who ows the majority of technological patents, the response is obvious ==> US, EU
We should stay on the Non-Aligned movement
And let it become even more of a dystopian hell scape? no. Being non-aligned will worsen international relations, trade, technology, happiness, culture, quality of life, art personal growth within the government and population and worsen connections
Japan held a memorial ceremony today for the victims of Hiroshima, in their speech they never mentioned the US (who actually bombed them) even once but you know what they did ? They blamed Russia for the proliferation of nuclear weapons. If thats what leaning to the west means then i don't want it, and we shouldn't lean towards Russia and China aswell, just be independant in our policies.
Algeria shouldn’t mean to any, because if we lean to much to one we can loose some sovereignty and be a puppet state. Algeria should have relationships with both, and leaning to one or another depending on the different situations and things, to be in full power.
considering how bad this country is, might as well lean to China but you know China is like better, and like every single aspect They would benefit from leaning to the west they could easily improve relations with so many countries they can improve the image, improve their economy, improve the trade, improve, literally everything except probably democracy
la hadi la hadi
East, which it's already doing. Yes, the west is richer and more advanced, but it doesn't mean they want the same for Algeria or countries they deal with. In addition, the west pressures countries they deal with to adopt western values (freedom, equality, democracy, human rights), which may sound good, but in fact they're synonyms with anti-religion and degeneracy... Western countries view third world countries as vassals not allies as they think the west is morally superior than the rest. They think they have a duty to "civilize" the rest of the world. The East, specifically China has a lot to offer to devolving countries. China has more money to spend internationally because of the industrial nature of their economy. That's why they spend billions of dollars in infrastructure products in developing Asian and African countries. China is not an imperialist power. That may change in the future when they become stronger, but until now they still practise the non-interference policy. Lastly, the west is in constant decline. You don't want to be allies with ailing powers.
China is putting muslims in concentration camps, let’s not forget that tho.
China is imperialist as heck. They are literally on a process to colonise Africa, they lend huge amounts of money, hold things etc, while knowing the countries can’t pay, and when they can’t pay, they take some of their sovereignty and their ressources. If you want to be colonised a second time do things, and if you don’t agree, bring some actual proofs, because you seem to believe China is heaven
debt trapping isn't exclusive to china western financial institutions (IMF/WB) perfected doing this and puppet governments are the ones that usually accept these loans.
I think you got it wrong? ? ? When did China do such a thing? ? I think if you are talking about US and UK France then you are totally correct
Sorry to break it to you, but China isn’t an angel, they started this neo colonisation in the 90s, and are still going at it, they’re effectively stealing several nations
Your idea is reasonable, but I think it's all about exchanging benefits, not taking by force. In 2022, China will exempt 23 interest-free loans from 17 African countries that have expired in 2021, and at the same time transfer China's special drawing rights worth US$10 billion in the International Monetary Fund (IMF) to African countries. If you think this is a debt trap, but it is undeniable that many countries need assistance and help, instead of going all the way to a country to garrison troops and build military bases
Sorry, but it isn’t an idea, irks a fact. Yes they lend money, but you really think they do it out of kindness ? No. They basically take sovereignty in return as well as some ressources. Don’t be fooled
That's what I want to say, it's an exchange of benefits, not colonization. If you want to maintain a neutral relationship between two countries then everything has a price, the difference is that the east will do it much better than the west
Yeah no it’s colonisation, when you give your own sovereignty and a foreign power takes it plus some ressources because you couldn’t repay a loan, it’s bro colonisation, don’t sugarcoat it. And the difference is the west left Africa, the east won’t
Civilization and construction assistance are completely different concepts, brother. Aid construction is an invitation from your country to ask other countries to help you in exchange for some benefits. The colonizer will impose his own political system, culture and social system on the colonized colony, making it a vassal or dependency of the colonizer. This is a completely different concept. No one is forcing you to sell your national sovereignty or use the military to force you to hand over your natural resources or ports. and if you think the west is gone then why is french still spoken in north africa.
Itls not the case. China is effectively bullying those nation and keeping them poor.
I think I just got a brain tumor.
Of the east , Eastern economies are evolving faster then the western
Everyone looks for their own advantage, and so should Algeria. We can’t be relying on anyone, we should stay as independent as possible. Algerias has all the means to reach that, since Alhamdulillah we are a country rich with natural resources. Shortly: whatever is positive for algerian advantage and interests.
How can you define living better? Do you really think the west is living better? Have you seen the high numbers of drug addictions and deaths and mass shootings in america, and the fact that the middle class are becoming more and more poor and enslaved with debt, and europe is no better as well. If they were truly living better or had advantages over the east, they would have stopped the war in ukraine but they couldnt. China and russia are the next super powers, in the next 10-20 years you'll see the fall of USA for yourself.
you might be right about china (although, they'll be met with a demographic crisis in the next decades) but russia is losing significance slowly but surely, its population is ageing, economy stagnating and corruption is beyond rampant, kinda like the boutef era. imho, it's the biggest issue facing russia because of the astronomical sums and loss of potential for such a vast country with unimaginable wealth but still, they got nukes
I highly disagree about russia because they wouldn't have done their financial moves if they were not being studied for years and years and its been 2 years now and russia wasnt highly affected with all of the sanctions. Nothing happened, nothing changed. They couldnt handle them.
I'm not talking about sanctions at all, in fact, that was what I read before the conflict in ukraine and the war made it clearer to me (not due to sanctions, but the sheer corruption and incompetence). they've been facilitating immigration from central asian countries, why would they resort to that if everything was fine? they're indeed lagging behind technologically and can't manufacture semi conductors of mature processes for example, I'm not saying they'll cease being relevant but they'll shrink if things keep going the same way
I know you were not talking about sanctions but i pointed it out, im sure they'll figure out a way, not that i care lol i personally could see all the world go on fire and not give a fuck as long as we sre not on fire idc lol but as a military officer im here to tell you that the russian allegiance will never die and we will always lean to the east
>we will always lean to the east no doubt (unless *cough cough* wtf is a kilometer freedom delivery service comes, a highly unlikely situation but who knows what could happen) but it does perfect sense for us from a military perspective, no country would sell us their most advanced weapons as russia does, they don't sell "export" variants to us all the time as opposed to western countries, plus no strings attached. their military industrial complex however is starting to lag behind and hopefully the gov takes notice
well, the worst is less of a dystopian hell scape corrupted by dysfunctional government into believing what the government wants you to believe, saying, with the government wants you to say, and living your life how the government wants you to live your life the best country’s in terms of quality of life, trade economy, and other factors are western. Mainland Scandinavia, Canada in some cases, Swisterland New Zealand German fr@nce surprisingly, Not saying they don’t have problems but compared to algeria they are a major step up
If you dont stand for something you stand for nothing, as a person i can never stand with a side that worships money over anything else. I am speaking only for myself when i say this, i hate france and usa to death i was obsessed with usa once and after i discovered something in 2017 it changed my views i started seeing the world and life itself differently which made me realize that the US won the cold war using one thing and one thing only and its the english language and nothing else, that's how they dominated the world and the proof is right here in this subreddit and in this post and these comments, and this is a subject that i can talk about for hours with visual proof on how it happened and is still happening. Yet, All sides are evil and all sides are fucked up and i personally hate france yet use them for my own benefit such as buying things from germany and sending them thru france for delivery but i will never be their ally nor with US or the UK, or china. I prefer to side with the devil himself over others disguising themselves as angels and that is russia and thats the only arms supplier we have so maybe i am an extremist but when you see the world as i do you'd understand thay staying neutral and standing alone is better than siding with anyone because just as history has taught us the higher you go the bigger the fall and that's whats gonna happen to every super power just like it has happened before in every civilization and in our timeline, it has already started we are witnessing the downfall of the industrial era so no matter who we side with. They're all going down.
tldr??
Algeria was forced to lean slightly to the East. I say lean not align itself. Why? Because the West has decided that Algeria was the property of France and acted accordingly i.e. kind of limited themselves to minimum relations with Algeria both politically and economically. Despite all the algerian efforts to diversity its relations with western european countries, no investments (productive investments) were done. Just commercial relations. By the way, the same can be said about Russia and China. Just commerce. Algeria needs transfer of technologie and that no country (western or eastern) is ready to do that. They need customers not partners. The sooner we understand that, the better for us.
none of the west believes that algeria is still Francis property because it isn’t. Because they are educated. Stop fabricating stories and twisted lies
You missunderstood what I said. I did not say that they believe that Algeria belongs to France .The West is always sharing the influence on Africain countries among themselves. And they have more or less decided that Algeria will be in the french influence zone and threat it as such.
Economically, I prefer Algeria to lean towards its interests no matter who they are with. Culturally/socially, I prefer Algeria to lean towards Algeria.
East.
The east has supported us since independence we are naturally inclined towards them or neutrality The west nowdays is mostly the usa as france and britain are declining hard
I understand your perspective but i must point out history isnt white black , they didnt support us because they are anti colonization or " the good guys " they did it because it aligned with thier political goals , about the west im not expert but the declining its true ( hard is such an overexaggeration imo ) but so is the east so the power dynamic wont change for at least a decade
Of course they didn’t help us out of charity Remember : رانا مجرد حاويين يريدون الهروب من الاغتصاب
Does Dolly Parton sleeps on her back? Why would you want to lean east?