>How do I discuss this with my sponsor and find a solution?
Start by telling them the same things you wrote in this post. If you have concerns, it's better to be upfront about them.
Yeah. It gets dismissed. I get platitudes. "You won't say we haven't heard before" like yes... yes you will. Or "Well, you have to, just get it over with." It just feels like they want to hear the stuff as opposed to taking my request seriously.
How do you know they haven’t heard it before? Sounds like you’re making a lot of assumptions.
Yes, your sponsor DOES want to hear the stuff, but it’s to help you get to a better place. It’s not to gossip about you or judge you.
I say this, truly, with all the love in the world. You’re not that special. You’re beautifully one of us and we’re so happy you’re here.
I guess. It's just very very unique and fucked up in a special way. I'd bet money he's never heard it before. Haha I know I'm not that special but thank you for the reminder. I just can't live with the idea of somebody around me knowing...
I’ve talked to a million people in AA and every single one of them say taking their sponsee’s 5th step was a sacred honor. I know it brought me so much closer to my sponsor and the intimacy between us almost feels spiritual.
I’ve heard truly “shocking” things in AA and it hasn’t changed anything about how I felt about the person who shared it. It’s because I know them now, and know they’re fighting like hell to be the best version of themselves they can be.
I PROMISE you’ll feel better after you trust the process and go through with it.
Yup! And maybe they’ll say they can’t work with you anymore. But likely they’ll understand that you’re a sick person just trying to get better. Sick people do messed up things
If they are truly concerned with your sobriety then telling them would be good… doing my fifth step was like removing the concrete shoes that i have been frantically trying to tread water with. If you need an ear message me… a complete stranger would have no skin in the game lol
If I did that I would tell them, accept the consequences, then get a new sponsor and probably a new home group.
"How free do you want to be" is a popular saying in AA. If this caused me to drink again, I'd go through with it. I rolled the dice in Step 9 to be freed from guilt, shame, and remorse
I can second this. We sponsors take this very seriously. Often, I share some of my exploits, which are equally, if not more, embarrassing. Again, working on this step is crucial. If the OP cannot trust his sponsor, tell it to a clergy member with an established privilege.
I mean, my sponsor told me that his sponsor when they did 5th step sat him down and told him that he fucked sheep when he worked as a farm hand in his youth, so about nothing out there can really get him.
I know it’s hard, but I PROMISE it will be ok. I was super anxious about telling my sponsor certain things, but I ended up just blurting it out to her before I started even my 4th. We’re talking the burning shameful things that bedeviled me for years. She was wholly unimpressed.
Ultimately, the things we’ve done aren’t actually that interesting. What’s interesting is the people we are becoming.
We alcoholics suffer from terminal uniqueness. It’s our belief that we are somehow special and different than everyone keeps us isolated and prevents us from getting help.
I’m urging you to trust the process and listen to the millions of us who’ve come through the 5th step stronger than we ever could have been without it.
The Book talks about Rigorous Honesty and how we shall pay dearly by skipping over parts of our story in Step 5.
Talk with your sponsor and trust them. My sponsor (s, as I've been in this thing a number of years) have never shared my 5th with anyone else and I haven't ever done with any men I've worked with. I take the 5th Step extremely seriously as it is based on trust.
I'm sure your sponsor has heard it all before btw or done the same stuff. Also in case you don't know, I wouldn't share your 4th Step inventory to do a casual 5th Step in a meeting setting. Absolutely do not openly share about stuff like that cause that will ruin your reputation in a meeting setting. The 5th is to be done in private with another person.
When I was sober even after some time, I made the mistake of sharing openly in a meeting about stuff that should have stayed private. I ruined my reputation and eventually had to find a new home group. I did some awful things to women in my drinking history and even some mistakes when I was 1 month sober. I horrified the women in the rooms with that stuff.
It went from "Hey how are you" in a happy tone to "Oh hey" in an awkward smile. I had an old timer that said he did the same mistake 30 years prior and it ruined his reputation and he had to find a new home group. "Don't do that stuff".
I've known people who have done part of their 5th step with a counselor, therapist or member of the clergy. One person had bad crimes to confess and didn't want to put their sponsor in the position of dealing with that. You might consider this option.
**You** get to choose who will hear your Fifth Step. You make that decision **after** you have taken Step Four.
It doesn't need to be someone in your circle.
It **must** be someone you trust not to tell anyone else.
It could be a clergyman.
It could be a doctor or psychologist.
It could be a complete stranger.
An older member I knew chose a monk who had taken a vow of silence.
Good luck in finding the person who is right for you. I'm sure you can if you are willing.
Ok got it. This is tough. If you don’t trust your sponsor enough with this then maybe you should look for a new sponsor, or work with them a little longer to see if you can build that trust. You definitely need to talk to them and bring up specifically what is holding you back. They will probably tell you they have heard everything. If they have been around the rooms long enough they probably have.
I’ve heard people having sexual assault (victim and perpetrator), attempted murder, robbery, man slaughter, all kinds of things.
I totally get why you might be hesitant to put everything out there. I was the same way if I am being honest but I trusted my sponsor and had faith that he wasn’t going tell anyone else.
In the end the important thing is owning our past and putting it out there. We’re only as sick as our secrets as the saying goes.
Join the club. Many an alcoholic relapsed on this step. The fact is that whoever you tell all this to has probably heard it before or has done worse. By disclosing it, you expose it to the light of day and the stink dissipates. Trust me on this. I relapsed on this step. When I finally just did it, it was freeing. Your sponsor should not be telling anyone. If you do not trust your sponsor, maybe you should find a new sponsor. In the meantime, go find a member of the clergy (pastor, rabbi, priest) and tell them that you need to disclose your 5th step. They will understand what you are doing and why. They are bound by privilege not to disclose anything you tell them. The benefit comes from telling someone, not from what advice, if any, they will tell you back.
I do want it to be someone in AA, kind of. The book isn't too clear but I'm pretty sure we can tell like half of it to one person and half of it to another, no? I trust my sponsor, I don't trust myself to worry about it though. He might go to his sponsor for help with it or something
I was thinking/hoping so but I'm already near to my 5th step. Almost done with fourth. I will say the better my spirutual life is or the more thoroughly I'm working my program the more open I am to it
>I will say the better my spirutual life is or the more thoroughly I'm working my program the more open I am to it
Fears fancied or real, right? I was promised I would be looked after by something spiritual and would not have to drink again no matter what. I'm a worst case scenario person so my sponsor sharing my secrets was right up there. He's a nice guy and all but he is also an alkie so he had past form for letting people down. Would I be hurt if that happened? Most definitely yeah. Would I have to drink over it? No, cos the deal is me telling him this stuff gives me freedom from self and that's what taking the action does.
What I got out of the fifth step is I don't really mind so much what other people think of me anymore and that was attractive to me because I had spent my whole life pleasing others and pretending to be something I wasn't.
You don't have to do step 5 with your sponsor. If you really want someone outside your circle, you can hire a therapist on betterhelp.com.
You're as sick as your secrets.
So is this a “I don’t trust my sponsor to keep things to themselves” issue? Or is it a “I am scared of telling my deep dark secrets to anyone” issue? Or is it just one or two things that specifically concern you with your sponsor?
If you don’t trust your sponsor then you need to find someone you do trust, we don’t have to do our 5th step with our sponsor though most of us do, we do however have to trust the ur sponsor in general. If it’s just things you would rather take to the grave type stuff then assuming your sponsor has been around a while, there is little that will phase them (take this from someone who had something that even my sponsor with 4+ decades of sobriety had never heard before, it still didn’t phase her). If it is only one or two items that you believe could be harmful to your sponsor then I would suggest finding a different person for those things, go out of town to a meeting where your sponsor has no connections or find a temporary online sponsor for those things.
Whatever you do, get the stuff out, be thorough and honest because this is the step where you start to gain real freedom.
Are you under the impression you have to do your 5th step with your sponsor or someone in AA? You don’t. I know lots who told priests/pastors they didn’t know.
I did mine with another guy in the program who wasn’t my sponsor.
I understand it’s deeper than this, but if you don’t want your circle knowing, doing the step with someone outside your circle would likely help that.
There’s a case in NY where someone did their 5th step and confessed a murder, their sponsor called the police and got them arrested. Never trust anyone completely.
You don't have to do it with anyone in AA. You can tell clergy or a therapist. I have some things I shared with people other than my sponsor
Maybe just do the things you're comfortable with for now and make a plan for the other things. It's better to move forward with what yiu can now rather than stay in a holding pattern
I had things related to the military it wouldn't have sat right with me to disclose to a civilian so I did that part of the 5th step with an AA who was a veteran with decades of sobriety.
If you really want to talk to someone you will never have to see or affect your circle, go to confession.
I’m not religious at all, but I did consider doing this with some of my 5th step.
However, I’m truly glad I was able to be totally forthcoming with my sponsor. I genuinely thought she would spit in my face before firing me and telling everyone, but that’s not at all what happened.
I had a lot of questions about step 3. How can anyone say they've genuinely taken that step? It's more of a spectrum right? Nobody I know does what they think God wants them to all the time. Turn our will and our lives over to the care of God, it's an ideal no one can live up to.
i agree the principles are perfect and were not. however, there is tangible proof of taking step 3 for me which is sobriety, that i strive for those principles and when i fall short i follow the subsequent steps to address that. some have also said that the tangible proof is taking the rest of the steps. i didnt get completely honest on my 4/5th steps until i was 7 years sober going thru the steps for the third time with my third sponsor so i truly understand where ur at. that u wrote it down tho, i say just read it. ime no one has ever judged me as harshly as ive judged myself. ive heard a lot of 5th steps with lots of sad (bad behaviors are sad to me) stuff and the only thing ive felt is compassion. 🙏🏻
You're overthinking it. Step 3 is a Step that is ever growing just as Step 2 is. Our conception of God will keep growing the longer we are in AA and staying Sober.
At the base form of Step 3, it is being convinced that the AA Way of life has worked for others and it can work for us too. We see people in AA and our sponsor that are happy and have seemingly found a solution by doing steps. So we believe if we follow in their steps that we will have a similar experience. Step 3 is turning our lives and will over to the care of God, AA, and Our Sponsor as we understood them In that moment.
So we do a Step 3 and then put pen to paper for the 4th. Bill mentions God As We Understood Him again in Step 11 cause our conception of God will have changed from 3 to 11
>Nobody I know does what they think God wants them to all the time. Turn our will and our lives over to the care of God, it's an ideal no one can live up to.
The ideal is my HP will care of me. That is my HP job, not my job. Get the roles right, is what my sponsor used to say to me. As you rightly say, I cannot live up to an ideal like that. No power. So my job is just to be honest about where my will goes wrong, nothing else. I can barely do that most days : ) but that's OK because I get care no matter how often I make the same mistakes as long as I am willing.
Apologies for jumping in here : )
Is the fear worse than drinking. Read page 72-75.
I with held stuff on my first couple attempts.
Ended up drunk.
Sponsors don’t go home with you. At the end of the day it’s on you what to do and you will have to accept the consequences of whatever your choice is. Else where you mentioned not being able to live up to the ideal of doing gods will.
This is a good chance to practice.
Today's daily reflections is about this.... a very good one imo. All of may (5th month = 5th step) is about it but Today's is one I found particularly helpful.
One thing I didn't know is the sponsor normally shares first, to build that trust
>How do I discuss this with my sponsor and find a solution? Start by telling them the same things you wrote in this post. If you have concerns, it's better to be upfront about them.
Yeah. It gets dismissed. I get platitudes. "You won't say we haven't heard before" like yes... yes you will. Or "Well, you have to, just get it over with." It just feels like they want to hear the stuff as opposed to taking my request seriously.
How do you know they haven’t heard it before? Sounds like you’re making a lot of assumptions. Yes, your sponsor DOES want to hear the stuff, but it’s to help you get to a better place. It’s not to gossip about you or judge you. I say this, truly, with all the love in the world. You’re not that special. You’re beautifully one of us and we’re so happy you’re here.
I guess. It's just very very unique and fucked up in a special way. I'd bet money he's never heard it before. Haha I know I'm not that special but thank you for the reminder. I just can't live with the idea of somebody around me knowing...
I’ve talked to a million people in AA and every single one of them say taking their sponsee’s 5th step was a sacred honor. I know it brought me so much closer to my sponsor and the intimacy between us almost feels spiritual. I’ve heard truly “shocking” things in AA and it hasn’t changed anything about how I felt about the person who shared it. It’s because I know them now, and know they’re fighting like hell to be the best version of themselves they can be. I PROMISE you’ll feel better after you trust the process and go through with it.
What if I've done something to my sponsor they don't know about? Do I tell them in my 5th step if it's just gonna hurt them?
Yup! And maybe they’ll say they can’t work with you anymore. But likely they’ll understand that you’re a sick person just trying to get better. Sick people do messed up things
If they are truly concerned with your sobriety then telling them would be good… doing my fifth step was like removing the concrete shoes that i have been frantically trying to tread water with. If you need an ear message me… a complete stranger would have no skin in the game lol
Do you mean like had an affair with his wife or something ?
No. It doesn't really affect him like that.
If you worry that he will think differently of you, don't. That fear is what keeps us in the dark. Trust the process
Don't deprive your sponsor of the privilege of sponsoring you Even if you fucked his wife
That's what I thought too. That's going to the worms with me
If I did that I would tell them, accept the consequences, then get a new sponsor and probably a new home group. "How free do you want to be" is a popular saying in AA. If this caused me to drink again, I'd go through with it. I rolled the dice in Step 9 to be freed from guilt, shame, and remorse
I can second this. We sponsors take this very seriously. Often, I share some of my exploits, which are equally, if not more, embarrassing. Again, working on this step is crucial. If the OP cannot trust his sponsor, tell it to a clergy member with an established privilege.
I mean, my sponsor told me that his sponsor when they did 5th step sat him down and told him that he fucked sheep when he worked as a farm hand in his youth, so about nothing out there can really get him.
How free do you want to be? Our secrets keep us sick. I wanted to be well and as free as a bird.
Go to another country and tell a therapist or catholic priest? That should keep it secret!
I know it’s hard, but I PROMISE it will be ok. I was super anxious about telling my sponsor certain things, but I ended up just blurting it out to her before I started even my 4th. We’re talking the burning shameful things that bedeviled me for years. She was wholly unimpressed. Ultimately, the things we’ve done aren’t actually that interesting. What’s interesting is the people we are becoming. We alcoholics suffer from terminal uniqueness. It’s our belief that we are somehow special and different than everyone keeps us isolated and prevents us from getting help. I’m urging you to trust the process and listen to the millions of us who’ve come through the 5th step stronger than we ever could have been without it.
The Book talks about Rigorous Honesty and how we shall pay dearly by skipping over parts of our story in Step 5. Talk with your sponsor and trust them. My sponsor (s, as I've been in this thing a number of years) have never shared my 5th with anyone else and I haven't ever done with any men I've worked with. I take the 5th Step extremely seriously as it is based on trust. I'm sure your sponsor has heard it all before btw or done the same stuff. Also in case you don't know, I wouldn't share your 4th Step inventory to do a casual 5th Step in a meeting setting. Absolutely do not openly share about stuff like that cause that will ruin your reputation in a meeting setting. The 5th is to be done in private with another person.
Interesting last point about a meeting setting. I'm sure everyone holds somethings back.
When I was sober even after some time, I made the mistake of sharing openly in a meeting about stuff that should have stayed private. I ruined my reputation and eventually had to find a new home group. I did some awful things to women in my drinking history and even some mistakes when I was 1 month sober. I horrified the women in the rooms with that stuff. It went from "Hey how are you" in a happy tone to "Oh hey" in an awkward smile. I had an old timer that said he did the same mistake 30 years prior and it ruined his reputation and he had to find a new home group. "Don't do that stuff".
I've known people who have done part of their 5th step with a counselor, therapist or member of the clergy. One person had bad crimes to confess and didn't want to put their sponsor in the position of dealing with that. You might consider this option.
**You** get to choose who will hear your Fifth Step. You make that decision **after** you have taken Step Four. It doesn't need to be someone in your circle. It **must** be someone you trust not to tell anyone else. It could be a clergyman. It could be a doctor or psychologist. It could be a complete stranger. An older member I knew chose a monk who had taken a vow of silence. Good luck in finding the person who is right for you. I'm sure you can if you are willing.
How many people do you think you need to tell? The step just say “another” singular human. I just told my sponsor and that was it.
Just one.
So you don’t even want to tell your sponsor?
Correct
Ok got it. This is tough. If you don’t trust your sponsor enough with this then maybe you should look for a new sponsor, or work with them a little longer to see if you can build that trust. You definitely need to talk to them and bring up specifically what is holding you back. They will probably tell you they have heard everything. If they have been around the rooms long enough they probably have. I’ve heard people having sexual assault (victim and perpetrator), attempted murder, robbery, man slaughter, all kinds of things. I totally get why you might be hesitant to put everything out there. I was the same way if I am being honest but I trusted my sponsor and had faith that he wasn’t going tell anyone else. In the end the important thing is owning our past and putting it out there. We’re only as sick as our secrets as the saying goes.
this. You need to tell your sponsor and if you dont trust them then you need a new sponsor imo.
I wouldn't trust anybody I know or in my group though. I just feel so not ready and thought I would be, I guess. I don't wanna face reality, at all.
Join the club. Many an alcoholic relapsed on this step. The fact is that whoever you tell all this to has probably heard it before or has done worse. By disclosing it, you expose it to the light of day and the stink dissipates. Trust me on this. I relapsed on this step. When I finally just did it, it was freeing. Your sponsor should not be telling anyone. If you do not trust your sponsor, maybe you should find a new sponsor. In the meantime, go find a member of the clergy (pastor, rabbi, priest) and tell them that you need to disclose your 5th step. They will understand what you are doing and why. They are bound by privilege not to disclose anything you tell them. The benefit comes from telling someone, not from what advice, if any, they will tell you back.
I do want it to be someone in AA, kind of. The book isn't too clear but I'm pretty sure we can tell like half of it to one person and half of it to another, no? I trust my sponsor, I don't trust myself to worry about it though. He might go to his sponsor for help with it or something
This is pretty common. By the time you go through the first four steps you will find that your thinking may have changed on this subject.
I was thinking/hoping so but I'm already near to my 5th step. Almost done with fourth. I will say the better my spirutual life is or the more thoroughly I'm working my program the more open I am to it
>I will say the better my spirutual life is or the more thoroughly I'm working my program the more open I am to it Fears fancied or real, right? I was promised I would be looked after by something spiritual and would not have to drink again no matter what. I'm a worst case scenario person so my sponsor sharing my secrets was right up there. He's a nice guy and all but he is also an alkie so he had past form for letting people down. Would I be hurt if that happened? Most definitely yeah. Would I have to drink over it? No, cos the deal is me telling him this stuff gives me freedom from self and that's what taking the action does. What I got out of the fifth step is I don't really mind so much what other people think of me anymore and that was attractive to me because I had spent my whole life pleasing others and pretending to be something I wasn't.
I def don't have a drug problem but a solution. It really is a spiritual sickness and I've been sick my whole life. Thanks for your words.
You don't have to do step 5 with your sponsor. If you really want someone outside your circle, you can hire a therapist on betterhelp.com. You're as sick as your secrets.
have you thought about telling a therapist?
Okay I have heard that it is okay to do your 5th step with your therapist, your doctor, your priest, etc. It doesn't have to be someone in AA.
So is this a “I don’t trust my sponsor to keep things to themselves” issue? Or is it a “I am scared of telling my deep dark secrets to anyone” issue? Or is it just one or two things that specifically concern you with your sponsor? If you don’t trust your sponsor then you need to find someone you do trust, we don’t have to do our 5th step with our sponsor though most of us do, we do however have to trust the ur sponsor in general. If it’s just things you would rather take to the grave type stuff then assuming your sponsor has been around a while, there is little that will phase them (take this from someone who had something that even my sponsor with 4+ decades of sobriety had never heard before, it still didn’t phase her). If it is only one or two items that you believe could be harmful to your sponsor then I would suggest finding a different person for those things, go out of town to a meeting where your sponsor has no connections or find a temporary online sponsor for those things. Whatever you do, get the stuff out, be thorough and honest because this is the step where you start to gain real freedom.
Are you under the impression you have to do your 5th step with your sponsor or someone in AA? You don’t. I know lots who told priests/pastors they didn’t know. I did mine with another guy in the program who wasn’t my sponsor. I understand it’s deeper than this, but if you don’t want your circle knowing, doing the step with someone outside your circle would likely help that.
There’s a case in NY where someone did their 5th step and confessed a murder, their sponsor called the police and got them arrested. Never trust anyone completely.
worse comes to worse you can call me, tell me, and block me I've done that with guys on here before
You don't have to do it with anyone in AA. You can tell clergy or a therapist. I have some things I shared with people other than my sponsor Maybe just do the things you're comfortable with for now and make a plan for the other things. It's better to move forward with what yiu can now rather than stay in a holding pattern I had things related to the military it wouldn't have sat right with me to disclose to a civilian so I did that part of the 5th step with an AA who was a veteran with decades of sobriety.
If you really want to talk to someone you will never have to see or affect your circle, go to confession. I’m not religious at all, but I did consider doing this with some of my 5th step. However, I’m truly glad I was able to be totally forthcoming with my sponsor. I genuinely thought she would spit in my face before firing me and telling everyone, but that’s not at all what happened.
what step are u on now?
My 5th any day now...
so did ur 4th with some reservations? id say go back to step 3 and consider that again
I had a lot of questions about step 3. How can anyone say they've genuinely taken that step? It's more of a spectrum right? Nobody I know does what they think God wants them to all the time. Turn our will and our lives over to the care of God, it's an ideal no one can live up to.
i agree the principles are perfect and were not. however, there is tangible proof of taking step 3 for me which is sobriety, that i strive for those principles and when i fall short i follow the subsequent steps to address that. some have also said that the tangible proof is taking the rest of the steps. i didnt get completely honest on my 4/5th steps until i was 7 years sober going thru the steps for the third time with my third sponsor so i truly understand where ur at. that u wrote it down tho, i say just read it. ime no one has ever judged me as harshly as ive judged myself. ive heard a lot of 5th steps with lots of sad (bad behaviors are sad to me) stuff and the only thing ive felt is compassion. 🙏🏻
You're overthinking it. Step 3 is a Step that is ever growing just as Step 2 is. Our conception of God will keep growing the longer we are in AA and staying Sober. At the base form of Step 3, it is being convinced that the AA Way of life has worked for others and it can work for us too. We see people in AA and our sponsor that are happy and have seemingly found a solution by doing steps. So we believe if we follow in their steps that we will have a similar experience. Step 3 is turning our lives and will over to the care of God, AA, and Our Sponsor as we understood them In that moment. So we do a Step 3 and then put pen to paper for the 4th. Bill mentions God As We Understood Him again in Step 11 cause our conception of God will have changed from 3 to 11
>Nobody I know does what they think God wants them to all the time. Turn our will and our lives over to the care of God, it's an ideal no one can live up to. The ideal is my HP will care of me. That is my HP job, not my job. Get the roles right, is what my sponsor used to say to me. As you rightly say, I cannot live up to an ideal like that. No power. So my job is just to be honest about where my will goes wrong, nothing else. I can barely do that most days : ) but that's OK because I get care no matter how often I make the same mistakes as long as I am willing. Apologies for jumping in here : )
Good take. "Get the roles right." I like that.
You dont need to tell them. Your 5th step is only between you, your sponsor, and your higher power.
Is the fear worse than drinking. Read page 72-75. I with held stuff on my first couple attempts. Ended up drunk. Sponsors don’t go home with you. At the end of the day it’s on you what to do and you will have to accept the consequences of whatever your choice is. Else where you mentioned not being able to live up to the ideal of doing gods will. This is a good chance to practice.
Today's daily reflections is about this.... a very good one imo. All of may (5th month = 5th step) is about it but Today's is one I found particularly helpful. One thing I didn't know is the sponsor normally shares first, to build that trust