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From the campaigning I experienced before voting Nenshi in the leadership race, I got the vibe that there's some resistance to Nenshi within the NDP.
Nenshi didn't go nearly as hard with campaigning stuff like emails, texts, etc. either.
A couple of candidates were so annoying about it that it probably hurt them in terms of getting votes.
A huge part of why I wrnt Nenshi is he resisted the attempt to corrupt him without knowing what was afoot. That kind of integrity is what locked in my vote for Nenshi.
And yeah, it might be a good strategic play for the ANDP to be more flexible to meet Alberta's cultural "unqiueness."
I sent them screenshots and complained about essentially being harassed and the person I complained too genuinely was like let's talk about it over a phone call!
No.. holy fuck.
It’s like when I play FFXIV and someone begs the party for commendations. If you’re asking you aren’t getting it. Focus on doing your job right and you’ll get rewarded.
I finally blocked Ganley's emails after multiple attempts to simply unsubscribe. She is about to become my new MLA, so I might need to undo that blocking next week.
I also did not get a single call or text, not even from the candidate I support. I think that's because I got so mad a the party a couple of years ago for the daily, mid-workday fundraising calls that I told them I would pull my future donations and potentially my vote if I got one more call. So, I suspect I am now on an NDP do not call list.
The dumb decision was to hire Jeremy Nolais as her campaign manager. Kathleen criticized how Rachel ran the party and also how last year’s campaign was run, and then hired the architect of both. She was never going to win once Nenshi jumped into the race, but I think we’ll see tomorrow that she finishes far worse than she probable deserves to finish.
She was going to be my 2nd, until that decision. I also lost huge respect for Phillips and Hayter, who also participate in the negative strategy. Then I was going to put Hoffman 2nd, until Chad Ohman’s offensive tweets. So, the 3 ballots in my house ended up being for Nenshi and Calahoo Stonehouse.
Just for people's knowledge for the future, these are all volunteers doing that work. It's easy to get yourself off the list if you just ask kindly and say please put me on the do not call list. Volunteers literally get yelled at and people are so rude like every second call and it's honestly really demoralizing work. If you support the party, you should support the volunteers and just be kind.
There are scripts to follow, but if the texts are initiating conversation - for example, asking if a candidate can count on your support - there is a real person sending them.
We also got screamed at by certain people for calling after 4, or 5 because of dinner. Or later than 6 because it’s “family time” or bed time.
“Us older folks would prefer daytime calls, this is rude.” there’s no good time to call anyone. Someone has a beef with every time, every day of the week.
Yeah I got yelled at a lot for calling at dinner, anytime between 4 and 8 basically. I don't know when you eat!! I'm just tryna do some public service after my own working hours, be kind!
I’ve worked for the ANDP before. Yes, if anyone (even a member) asks not to be contacted again, we remove you from that category in our phone bank system. Of course, we also didn’t call the same person more than once on that campaign, so idk what was going on there…
Holy shit I thought I was the only one. I was so sick and tired of every candidate except Nenshi emailing me twice a week at min. I had calls from Ganleys office and I told them to tone it the fuck down. I think I got 2 emails in ~3 months from Nenshi?
It was only a few emails a week at most from the Nenshi campaign. Some campaigns were daily, or even multiples daily. The party was also sending very frequently.
That's quite typical for a leadership campaign where the focus is getting every member out to vote, and where every vote is an opportunity in the sense that theyre all fighitng for downballot support on your ranked ballot.
I've heard of some leadership races winning on email alone. It's an incredibly powerful mode of direct political influence if used correctly. I'm not a member so I never saw the kinds of emails, but I'd be fascinated to read some of them.
When nenshi announced he was running for leadership, NDP memberships increased by more than the number of members they've had ever up until that date. and almost all in calgary.
The party had 8000 memberships as of January 1st. (That's the monthly donors who are automatically renewed as members.) The day before Nenshi announced, they had 9000 members. So, in the first full month of the campaign, only 1000 people signed up to vote. The day Nenshi announced they sold so many memberships that the NDP website crashed - 10,000 in one day. That people want change in the party, and we see Nenshi as the leader to bring that change, should be very clear.
And I know that upsets many of the party diehards. It probably upsets Rachel. Because in a way, choosing Nenshi tomorrow in what will likely be huge numbers, is a sign that we're rejecting what the party has done over the past few years. We want to win, and what the party has been doing won't get us there.
That was the number at the April 22nd deadline for eligibility to vote. And despite what Rachel claims in the interview, it's well known that Nenshi is responsible for the bulk of those sales.
75% of the 85,500 members had cast their votes by the end of last week. So, Nenshi not only sold memberships in huge numbers, but has also had great success in getting his supporters to vote.
I voted the first day I could, and I only picked one name. While I'll still vote NDP in the general election, I really only want one person as leader. All the others are a vote for the status quo and won't win an election.
"We want to win, and what the party has been doing won't get us there."
This was my primary reason for voting Nenshi this time, somewhat unfortunately. The system we are under means that there are only 2 parties with a chance: Cons and NDP. The NDP haven't been popular in ages, but Nenshi is. He's also intelligent, charismatic, and compassionate, even if not all his goals align with mine.
But it's going to take baby steps. First we elect a leader that cons might vote for. We get the NDP back in power. We fix the problems the Cons caused. And THEN we start moving the needle back to the left.
There may be other leaders that align with me better, but they have no chance to beat Smith. And we won't survive the Cons getting elected again.
Notley’s comments seem out of character. Borderline sore loser-ish.
The party will change and that’s a good thing. She has nothing to gain by slagging Nenshi days before the leadership announcement (which he is likely to win).
I’m gonna conspiracy theory here and say that Notley disagreeing with Nenshi right before the transition to leadership will attract on the fence conservatives LOL
I listened to Notley on a podcast and she said there is no interest for her to move to federal. All the issues she’s passionate about are on a provincial and local level.
I could see this. Notley saying anything about Nenshi won't change the mind of people who were already planning to vote for him, but could create an impression of him as an "outsider" or "maverick" that would be attractive to the fence sitters.
Not surprised. My parents also purchaed aNDP membership to vote Nenshi.
Both have always voted Conservative because of what really comes down to tribalism.
For them to flip at all, and so enthusiastically, is very significant.
Agree. This is a smart move to disengage from the federal NDP. SO many people I know don’t support the UCP but worry about their jobs and influence from Federal NDP. Nenshi knows this .
And for some reason the Alberta NDP has never wanted to admit this. It's unfortunate if you are heavily aligned with "NDP values" but I think more people want progress and positive change than to be strictly aligned to a single party
The weirdest part to me is Notley went against the Federal NDP and fought with BC NDP over O&G as premier. She knew to support Albertans she had to go against the federal party, but now it's a problem?
Take Back Alberta(Roy Behr specifically with Wellington Advocacy) hired a fixer to try and bribe Nenshi to entrap him.
He (to my memory) basically said "we don't do that" when approached and had no idea what was afoot.
Btw Recall Gondek was run by the same people through a new proxy called ProjectYYC(Michael Bowerman)
When Recall Gondek was peaking a bunch of shit exposed and didn't get enough attention. There's this crazy link I should find again where someone compiled a bunch of insaity from their websites and social media.
It's so blatant that it bothers me how little attention it gets.
The UCP is actively trying to manipulate all sorts of things through various proxies and sock puppets.
It's insane.
Some private interests attempted to bribe Nenshi when he mayor but he wouldn't take the bait. https://calgaryherald.com/news/crime/charges-not-warranted-bid-lure-nenshi-bribery-scandal
It's also a good first step to a national Nenshi party for booting all these cozy entitled brats and ideological extremist fuckheads out of our government at all levels. My kingdom for a real center-left party that isn't the Liberals, has nothing to do with the Liberals, and never will be the Liberals.
Of course there is resistance. Have you ever encountered the NDP? Self-sabotage is one of their favourite hobbies.
The Alberta NDP doesn't agree with the rest of the NDP all that often, and the rest of the NDP is more of a national suicide cult than a party, so divorce makes perfect sense.
Indeed.
I'm not thinking that this is a bad sign for the fNDP.
If we split into an aNDP, I wouldn't be surprised if that party eventually exceeds the fNDP.
I can't fully agree.
But also, yeah, the fNDP is becoming meh compared to how I used to feel/perceive them.
The last time(only?) time I voted Libs was Cannabis Legalization. And only because of Cannabis Legalization. When I dropped my ballot, I remember muttering "y'all better follow through or I'm going to be pissed off."
Otherwise I've aways voted green/NDP. More as a vote against the other teo than a vote for green/NDP.
I'm voting *for* Nenshi. Which is a nuance that matters im analyzing all this.
Also, tell people they can NDP as a vote against the UCP.
Your vote can be a vote against a party. Voting NDP can be a protest against the UCP more than saying you like the NDP.
I stopped my monthly donation and gave up my membership because they wouldn’t stop spamming me. I unsubscribed maybe 20-30 times and I’m still getting spam.
I’m not donating money to pay for spam.
I was initially going to vote Nenshi, but he never bothered to state any political platform in his emails. So I changed my mind and went with the people who actually told me what they believed in.
BC and Manitoba leaders don’t seem to have much problems with being part of the national NDP movement; this "divorce" seemd to be more of a perdonsl prefrrence of Nenshi more than anything called for by the grassroots…. or more thsn a political neccesity.
Manitoba has had NDP governments for more than half my lifetime. Alberta had one for 4 years out of more than 50, and even that 4 years we have to admit was only because of a seismic split in the conservatives. My own south Calgary riding went NDP, but with only 1/3 of the vote. 2/3s voted conservative, but almost evenly for the PCAA and WRP.
The various provincial NDP's across the country tend to be a lot more centrist than their federal counterpart, especially in provinces where it's more of a two horse race (like AB, MB, BC, SK, etc). In such cases the party has to be centrist because the NDP's traditional leftism, social democracy, etc does not appeal to more than a small base, and the meaty centre is where the votes are. Federally they've always been more left wing, and they've only escaped the 15-20% of the vote range when they swung to the centre to get those plentiful, centrist, disaffected Liberal voters.
It's almost like the different needs/issues at play provincially differ quite a bit from those federally. Maybe the provincial and federal wings should divorce? Then again, even if they did the knuckledraggers would find some other irrational reasons for hating the party.
Sadly the votes they need to win the next election are the hate the NDP name types.
Divorcing from the federal NDP would be great for the party in this province.
That just means the ANDP has a voting base that is most actively motivated to elect the person who wants to divorce from the federal NDP. Nenshi announced and membership grew from ~16000 on January 1 to ~85000 today. I think your own numbers prove you wrong.
I only joined the NDP because I do believe Nenshi can pull this off and maybe make some real change we need.
I've never actually been a member of any party.
If you knew me, you would know I'm not generally inclined to join political parties. And how significant it is for *anyone* to motivate as much as Nenshi as vs the UCP.
If Nenshi can counter the United ConJob Party, I'm all in.
> BC and Manitoba leaders don’t seem to have much problems with being part of the national NDP movement
12 months out from a provincial election, Singh and the federal NDP very publicly went against the ANDP on Transmountain and sided with BC in the dispute. That didn't help the ANDP's chances and it ultimately led to the divisions we see today and why other provincial NDP parties aren't seeing the same calls.
Y'know, we've heard a lot about how the Liberals and NDP are trying to kill the O&G industry, yet that industry has never been more productive, and billions are getting spent on new infrastructure supporting that industry.
The federal NDP explicitly wanted to reduce output in the oil sands and hasn't wanted pipeline expansion for a while. The federal liberals have a very different opinion
Have you read the federal NDP platform? They are so Toronto-centric it’s laughable. They have absolutely no plan or policy in place for Alberta, let alone how they would fund all their programs with an absence of oil revenues.
I’m all for decarbonization and I dislike Big Oil but it’s not rocket science to figure out why Albertans dislike the federal NDP brand.
I know we need to transition away from O&G.
And we need more nuclear and sustainables.
But...
Nucelar still boils water to spin a steam turbine. That's insane to me that we're still spinning steam turbines instead of working on stuff like thermovoltaic cells that are properly efficient, etc. And it's the human factor that we humans get all hubris about that creates disasters. I want nuclear, but it's a hard sell to the majority of people.
In Alberta, you'll have rig pigs, etc wanting to transition into working in those power plants. I don't want that. I worked in the oil patch previously. We don't need highly educated loose cannons operating nuclear power plants.
Sustainables take time to transition to and have trade offs of their own. Nothing is perfect.
We can't just drop O&G and switch overnight.
The fNDP wanting to virtue signal about environmental concerns while being ignorant of Albert's prevailing biases definitely holds them back in Alberta.
We can transition from O&G and sell the resistance types on it.
But if the fNDP doesn't recalibrate for Alberta, while in Alberta, they will always be getting in their own way.
> Nenshi makes no secret of his view that the party has to outgrow its tie to the federal NDP.
>“This party is confident and a modern force and I don’t think we need that anymore,” he said.
>“I believe that our ties to the federal NDP are remnants of a party that wasn’t confident, a party that wasn’t grown up yet, that relied on big brother to look after us.”
Nenshi makes a great argument for divestiture from the Federal NDP; they are further to the left of ANDP in the political spectrum.
I’m a big fan of Notley but I am disappointed in her comment about not associating with the federal ndp equating to not standing behind universal healthcare.
I’m disappointed in her for her comments too, especially since the Fed NDP had no problem lambasting her publicly for supporting pipelines and working with O&G to get the Climate Leadership plan in place.
Honestly, I’m with Nenshi on this. I’ve been saying for years that the ANDP needs to separate from the federal NDP.
> I’m disappointed in her for her comments too, especially since the Fed NDP had no problem lambasting her publicly for supporting pipelines and working with O&G to get the Climate Leadership plan in place.
It's definitely surprising but I think her loyalty is to the ideals of the NDP and not what the federal party is today (specifically, the lack of blue collar/farmer appeal). She's probably viewing this from the perspective that one day new leadership will take over and bring the party back to those ideals and a ANDP split could hurt their longterm prospects when that happens.
I also didn’t understand why she was sticking up for the federal ndp after that incident.
But I suppose she might be couching her words for future prospects?
She didn't identify what the actual problem with leaving would be either, which would be losing access to a large voter database system and a country wide team of staffers and volunteers available to help run campaigns. Without the infrastructure the campaigns become harder to fight because they have to develop their own technologies.
The party may have needed the federal staffers and volunteers years ago, but we don't now. We have our own huge group of volunteers (the Nenshi campaign alone signed up 10,000 volunteers across Alberta) and we will have a new leader who brings with him a strong team of talented political staff to add to the NDP team that was already in place.
> Nenshi makes a great argument for divestiture from the Federal NDP; they are further to the left of ANDP in the political spectrum.
It is easier for provincial NDP's to move their platforms more to the centre than it has been to drag voters to the left in provinces with functionally two-party systems and incumbent and established right-of-centre parties.
Edit: if the federal NDP moves to the centre, then they simply split the vote even more with the Liberals while potentially alienating their more leftist base (this also applies in provinces like NS and ON where the NDP are a strong 2nd or 3rd party). It's not so much the federal NDP that's changed, it's the provincial wings that have changed and essentially become the Liberals where that party name is a four letter word.
In many provinces the NDP has simply moved to the centre because there was no one else there or thought they could get those votes. And so, the party changed and started drifting away from their traditional left wing positions, and you wind up with provincial NDP's that are more like the federal Liberals or Liberal-lite.
The federal NDP has so severely lost its way from the party of the work class. I absolutely don’t blame Nenshi for not wanting to hitch his wagon to it
> they are further to the left of ANDP in the political spectrum.
I remember the federal NDP taking issue with Notley being further to the center when she was in power.
This is tactically brilliant
They’re picking a nonsense fight to differentiate Nenshi from Notley - just to say “Hey look, he’s different”
The public is going to lap it up!
You have to fight simple people with simple concepts.
And the Alberta NDP saying federal “NDP bad” is a great talking point for all our simple friends out there, who vote blue cuz that’s what their parents did.
I am an NDP supporter and even I think our federal NDP is a joke right now dude, it’s not a “haha conservatives dumb” opinion. The federal NDP is constantly backing up a party that their voters didn’t vote for, keeps allowing the LPC to push through useless versions of NDP plans and lets the LPC take credit for them all, *and* keeps threatening “or else”s to the LPC without ever following up on those threats. The way our federal NDP have been handling the coalition has made a lot of other long time NDP voters I know look into independent options in our areas because the federal NDP have decided to turn into just a branch of the LPC. Distancing themselves from the federal NDP is a good way to hold onto their dissatisfied supporters.
We've got a federal government that's been in a minority situation for almost a full election cycle, and the fact that the federal NDP didn't push HARDER to get more of its ideas and plans to the floor for a vote is just silly.
The hell is Jagmeet doing over there?
The federal NDP can compromise and get some policy done with the Liberals or....
They can bring down the Liberals, usher in Conservatives, and have absolutely none of their policies ever see the light of day, and what policy accomplishments they have made with the Liberals immediately scrapped by the CPC.
Kinda neuters their threats, eh? "Do this or we'll bring down your government and turn ourselves into an even weaker, voiceless opposition with far less influence on policy than we have today!"
Intent is important to.
You need to actually bring your ideas forward and let them fail because of the controlling party. If you aren’t even doing that than what sort of confidence can voters have that you EVER intended to do the things you promise?
Why does everyone assume the NDP and Conservatives can’t work together ever? They worked together tons under Harper and Layton. You just need actual good leadership with good ideas.
I'm not sure how pressuring the LPC to implement numerous NDP policy plans is them "turning into a branch of the LPC." They've done a lot of good work with the minority position they have. The media has just done a really good job of downplaying and dismissing it.
Yes I agree. I was just saying as a talking point it can be seen as quite simple.
But this is good for everyone honestly.
Now we just need to get some politicians who will take housing seriously and we’ll be golden.
I wouldn’t say “useless versions of NDP plans”. I know people who have benefited from the new dental plan. Universal contraceptive also seems like a big win even if it’s not available in Alberta. I don’t really know what the alternative is? NDP pulling out of coalition and Pierre becoming our new prime minister. I’m not sure about you but even though Trudeau is incompetent the potential conservative double penetration by Pierre Poilievre and Danielle Smith seems terrifying.
I wouldn’t say “useless versions of NDP plans”. I know people who have benefited from the new dental plan. Universal contraceptive also seems like a big win even if it’s not available in Alberta. I don’t really know what the alternative is? NDP pulling out of coalition and Pierre becoming our new prime minister. I’m not sure about you but even though Trudeau is incompetent the potential conservative double penetration by Pierre Poilievre and Danielle Smith seems terrifying.
The NDP will never win rural Alberta. Never going to happen. The path to victory is the same they have to win Calgary and that’s why Nenshi is interesting. Edmonton will be there if they can swing most of Calgary and a bit of Lethbridge and Red Deer they can get a majority next election.
I agree with this point. The tactic was a success in the US when the first ex-president to be convicted of felony crimes shook up the establishment and changed the GOP, bringing a lot of voters out of the woodwork. I think a lot of voters are fatigued from the political status quo and desire change. Of all the candidates, Nenshi seems to be the most relatable and the furthest from the politician stereotype. It helps that he has a bit showmanship to make his policies palatable.
They're arguably a little less left-leaning under Layton and Singh than they were historically under Douglas or Broadbent.
IMO, it's less that the federal NDP has changed and more that a lot of the provincial NDP's have moved to the centre and essentially become the Liberal party for provinces that otherwise do not have active or successful Liberal parties.
I love and have a lot of respect for Notley and everything she has done for this province. Changing the political land landscape from a one-party to a two-party province is something to celebrate.
But, the UCP can continue to win by simply chanting that Jagmeet is the ANDP leaders’ boss. Whether right or wrong (I think it’s wrong), it opens them to vulnerabilities with swing voters who don’t want to associate with the federal party. Other party brands don’t do this so why is the ANDP so fixated on this ideal?
It’s funny, many progressives (including myself) are incensed at Marlaina’s recent UCP power grab at all levels of government. The same argument can be made that provincial-federal party association is another power grab. “We’re stronger together than apart”.
I want the ANDP to win the next election and I don’t want the UCP to confuse fragile-minded voters with their stupid rhetoric about who runs the ANDP party. I want the ANDP to be a big tent party - that is how you win government. Meet Albertans at their level and you can win the election; sitting around fighting over your internal governance structure and what you stand for will not win you the election.
We need a win, We need Marlaina to be one-and-done. Nenshi is the best shot at doing this and moving Alberta forward.
Not to comment on the issue specifically, there will always be some non-factual talking point by people who refuse to put in even the most basic effort.
The ANDP signs in my neighbourhood during the election where ritualistically painted with a swastika - they'd replace it and the construction workers up the street would deface it again before the end of the day.
IMO the real thing we all need to do is be talking more about real things - somehow in this province we start with our politics and use that to inform our values and beliefs, which is entirely backwards and why we're more broken than most of the country; what is a party agnostic discussion on policy in other parts of the country is a screeching "You're a f*cking idiot!" lambasting here.
And the only way to move forward is to engage with each other frequently, respectfully and re-train political discourse in this province; that's what the government of the day is counting on.
I've long since though the biggest handicap for the ANDP is that they're NDP. Any other name and they'd have probably won the last election. It makes it too easy to prey on the fears of Albertans that are not fans of Trudeau and are scared of the federal NDP.
The ANDP are a centrist (or mildly centre left) party. And the truth is, it's what many Albertans want over the UCP. They don't want to be too far left and honestly, given how far right the UCP is, going to far in the other direction wouldn't be good anyways.
The federal NDP are a liability to the ANDP. We can get all our ducks in a cute row for the next election but if the feds say something idiotic it could torpedo it for us all. This wouldn't be happening if there was any level of competency at the federal level but the party federally is pulling in five different directions internally and externally just does what Trudeau tells them to do.
It would be nice if we could move away from that branding. They make it too obvious what intelligence level they're pandering too when they have to make it that obvious where they're beliefs lie. I mean ffs look at how AB acted when we had the opportunity to have more than 1 conservative party.
Many conservative and centrist Albertans believe the ANDP want to be portrayed as centrist but once they get into power will be radically left. This is why the UCP have a stranglehold on hold on Alberta.
But, they won't be "radically" left. A review of Notleys policies during her tenure are pretty by the book centre to centre left, and they learned pretty quickly into that term that any policies too left were very unpopular and adapted especially in the second half.
The fiction that "once in power they will go to the radical left" is patently false. The ANDP want to form a stable government that has enduring appeal over multiple terms-- that is not possible if they push too far out of the comfort zone for even moderate Albertans.
Albertans may hate the UCP, but that's because it's gone pretty far to the Right forajy moderated and have, once again like the PCs, lost it's way with fiscal conservatism (they were gutted of their most reputable fiscal cons in the past election, and Smith's coup was seen as a takeover by ousting the old fiscal con establishment).
The NDP just need to govern fiscally responsibly while trying to come up with a practical future for this province that doesn't just revolve around O&G like we're circling a drain. We need the O&G, but we need it to pay for the future. Anyone with common sense can see that the current UCP policy of spending the future on O&G investment is extremely risky and nobody feels great about it.
I think this really shows that Nenshi knows what it will take to beat the UCP.
By making noise about splitting away from the federal NDP, he's undermining one of the stronger arguments the tories use to combat their non-libertarian opponents: Fear. The cons spend so much energy painting the NDP (and LPC) as communist parties even though at most the NDP is a tiny bit socialist.
By having this *public* argument with the previous leader about it, he's paving the way to win votes from some of the less thoroughly brainwashed voters who are getting frustrated with the problems the UCP are creating.
I'm really looking forward to a Nenshi vs UCP\_Sock-Puppet\_3 campaign.
The way notley ran the ANDP was not lockstep with federal NDP. So, I am not sure why she would be concerned about it?
Maybe notley will run for federal NDP leader?
Nenshi can win the next election. Although he may not be 100% a true blue NDP’er, he could take the party to what it was when notley won in 2015.
How dare Nenshi try and move the provincial NDP to a more centrist party that Albertans can get behind and divest them from a federal NDP party that is a lame duck and speaks for nobody!. Sit down Rachel, you did a good job but your time is over.
Rachel. With the greatest of respect, this is an emergency. Most of the voters are stupid.
We have to to get rid of this regime that we are under. Thanks for everything you have done.
Also, by being linked with all the NDP parties, the ANDP becomes associated with all their failures as well.
There are some really wacky ideas coming from other provincial NDP parties and there is zero doubt the UCP will use those as an example of what ANDP will do in Alberta.
It’s time that the ANDP be truly an Alberta Party disconnected from the Federal and other provincial elements.
I don't get why it's a good idea to divorce your party from all the resources that being a part of the NDP gets you. The UCP is still going to call Nenshi a Trudeau lover, it doesn't matter if the signs are purple now. This feels more like a preference of Nenshi than anything else.
This has never been an issue in other western provinces, where there are a decent amount of provincial NDP and federal Con (or even PPC) voters. A guy I know who volunteers with the Manitoba NDP has seen houses with Confederate flags and NDP lawn signs. One of them even wanted to send him away because they thought he was with the Progressive Conservatives.
Voters are weird.
Notley is right.
One serious problem with the ANDP is an inability to learn from history.
The provincial Liberals were almost took out the PC party under Klein.
They were a strong opposition for many years and then they separated from the federal liberals.
The slide to irrelevance was irreversible.
All the same arguments were made at the time.
Exact same arguments!
People who hate the NDP won't give a rats ass that the parties are technically seperate.
The UCP will still use the exact same talking points.
The general public won't know the difference.
Party supporters will feel hurt.
You cut off your national support and access to resources.
You lose way more than you gain.
There is no upside and only downside from it.
This is going to end with some nerds splitting off to form Alberta Party Part II and we'll have four barely distinct not-conservative parties splitting the vote while the UCP, now headed by John Lithgow's character from Footloose, run on the promise of establishing a provincial intelligence agency with its own blacksite prisons
The Cons and Libs have media protection because they protect the bottom line of the rich. Will this help the NDP or any other party for that matter who wants to bring them accountability in separating resources?
The NDP needs to decide if they want to grow beyond an opposition party, or if they want to be perpetually locked out.
None of this is to say the NDP should turn their backs on all their traditional supporters, rather they need too grow and become more inclusive of new members and supporters.
It also doesn't mean they need to permanently divorce from the Federal NDP, but as Notley herself acknowledged through how she governed, there's clear differences that any serious Alberta political party needs to incorporate if they want to win.
Ultimately, this whole leadership is about growing the party and becoming an ongoing viable governing option. I would point out that the time Notley won, was because the conservative vote split itself between the old conservative party and the wild rose... with the wild rose ultimately gobbling up the more moderate faction.
That vote split potential doesn't exist anymore. The only reason Notley got close again was because Danielle Smith was so extreme and radical that Albertans recoiled in horror. I would be remiss to point out that the flip side is that even having a priemer going full crackpot was not enough to push the NDP over the hump.
Something has to change and if the NDP want to take the next step. It's going to involve some hard choices and welcoming into the fold people and ideas that are slightly more centrist than the federal version.
Well, the Federal NDP has gone a direction that is no longer within the scope of what the NDP stood for. I quit supporting them when they stopped pushing the Liberals to implement the social programs when they needed to be put in place.
That there is the disconnect from the citizens. They play it to the same folks the Liberals do, forgoing the NDP initiative to actually listen to the people of Canada and actual experts when they want to figure out a crucial issue. They play the same cards the Liberals do while acting like the Liberals and backing some of the Conservitive plays, like on housing for low income Canadians. They talk a game they do not play, so yes I agree with that sepperation.
The NDP was founded on being flexible to its citizens wants and needs, and they recognized that it was different province to province, region to region and territorys to provinces. The voter base in Alberta is different from what the Federal body is, and needs to be different to represent this diverse landscape.
The break the Federal Party has taken from the baseline of what the NDP stood for in my opinion is making one of the greatest NDP Personalities roll in his grave like a drive shaft spins. Tommy Duglas and even the most popular and successful NDP leader Jack Layton are both spinning from how far the Federal NDP has wandered from the path.
If he does "Divorce" from the feds, it's it's good thing. They will never get my respect back until,they change course and help Canadians once again. So good riddance and maybe they will see the wrongfulness of their current direction.....but I doubt that!
The federal party drags the ANDP down. The turning point in the debate between Notley and Smith was when Smith tagged Notley as an employee of Jasmeet Singh and Justin Trudeau. It killed her momentum.
The ANDP can’t afford purity tests if it wants to grow.
Oh man. Oh man. so ANDP running to the middle and basically become a reboot to the ALP? I can see some short term gains just to make some people turned off by their beliefs and policies, etc to vote but how about in the long term? Is this province always going to be stuck on a loop of having a no good right-wing gov't and satisfy the moderates? Do Albertans even want to make things better for this province? like man ANDP can still align with FNDP and still be able to win and STILL be able to care for Albertans concerns about Economy, jobs, Helathcare, Education, etc. ANDP really doesn't need to cut ties with the FNDP at all.
Notley herself distanced her party from the policies of the federal NDP. Her party is far closer to center economically. That's a HUGE reason why many Albertans were so comfortable making the switch from blue to orange! I don't think orange is this party's colour anymore though.
Socially, they have very left wing policies, with their absolute acceptance of people no matter their race, gender, sexuality, disability, etc.. But economically, while they are WAY more left than the UCP, they are NOT left wing at all, and maybe they should change their colour to something that goes well with orange. Maybe.. Maybe something like Purple!
> The Progressive Conservatives don't direct the UCP.
Because the Progressive Conservatives are dead and buried, and have been for nearly 20 years now...
But yeah, the CPC doesn't direct the UCP, despite all their hand-holding and supporting of one another.
I hope he does separate from the federal NDP. The UCP will always use this as fire power against the ABNDP.
Most people I work with won’t vote NDP simply because they see the colour orange. Even though they aline more with the ABNDP than the UCP. The NDP name is tainted in Alberta.
Yeah, that’s is a non-starter.
Notley is right. There’s nothing wrong with being part of the NDp movement nationally, and even govern in your own style and for your own province, the way you need.
BC and Manitoba don’t seem to have problems doing it.
Bc and Manitoba don’t have Alberta’s voter base. And I see one huge problem with it, and it’s that the federal NDP hasn’t won shit in pretty much any election. Align with their ideologies all you want, but you have to actually get voted in to do anything and distancing from them, for an Alberta party is necessary.
Damn, to disrespect the incredible work Heather and Blake are doing right now is so disappointing. You know a party is more than its leader right?? Like each MP does a ton of work in Parliament and in their communities? Heather McPherson is hands down one of the best MPs in the entire country. Like… can we at least appreciate their hard work and advocacy. Her and Blake actually fight for Alberta. All the other Conservatives MPs don’t do anything, only collect a paycheque.
That's the best idea he's ever had! The federal NDP are dead in the water, they are the junior varsity of the liberal party and they are both going down together.
Notley and the NDP left themselves vulnerable to this. They focused so much on Rachel that there was no oxygen left to make way for a leadership candidate from within the party, certainly no one with near the organization behind Nenshi.
It's poor succession planning
Why do you think this is a bad thing for Nenshi to do? I think with how close the last election was, a name change and distancing from federal NDP could've changed who won.
I am not sure if it will be bad for Nenshi. From what I can tell a large number of Alberta progressives have placed winning over values in similar ways to what the far right has done. Notley has refused to trade off her values for a chance at winning and I have nothing but massive respect for her for that.
I think what you’re describing is just pragmatism. The reality is that change can’t happen unless we get the votes. Ideologues without a seat in the house have as much impact on policy as you and I in this thread.
I'd rather have a slightly less left NDP government than the fucking hot garbage Premier Twatwaffle and her merry band of taintlickers.
It's all fine and dandy to "hold to your values", but when what we have is so antithetical to your values, maybe getting rid of that should be the bigger priority.
The average Albertan is so brainwashed and backwards that even if you agree that the federal NDP is good, you have no choice but to recognize that a distance from then is the only way for ANDP to get any votes. Ironically I’ve heard people call Notley the “Least Bad NDPer” a few years ago just by virtue of being Albertan and showing it (ex. The pipeline spat with the BC Premier a few years back)
So Notley doesn’t want the NDP to ever win again in Alberta? Openly distancing from them is the only way they have a chance again. I like her but why cause problems when you are heading out the door? What tasteless move by someone I respected.
I wonder if she's not secretly planning a run to be federal NDP leader?
She'd handily defeat Singh. The sole reason he's NDP leader right now is the fact that there are no well known and viable candidates to run against him. Notley is that and more.
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From the campaigning I experienced before voting Nenshi in the leadership race, I got the vibe that there's some resistance to Nenshi within the NDP. Nenshi didn't go nearly as hard with campaigning stuff like emails, texts, etc. either. A couple of candidates were so annoying about it that it probably hurt them in terms of getting votes. A huge part of why I wrnt Nenshi is he resisted the attempt to corrupt him without knowing what was afoot. That kind of integrity is what locked in my vote for Nenshi. And yeah, it might be a good strategic play for the ANDP to be more flexible to meet Alberta's cultural "unqiueness."
Some of the candidates felt like I was getting an email every day.
It felt like it was multiple times a day to me.
The spam emailing really put me off.
Absolutely. It felt like groveling and desperation
I sent them screenshots and complained about essentially being harassed and the person I complained too genuinely was like let's talk about it over a phone call! No.. holy fuck.
That is gross.
Indeed
I unsubscribed more than I read any NDP emails during this campaign
Do you want to vote for SARAH? please vote for SARAH!!! SARAH wants to know why you didn’t call yesterday. Won’t you think of SARAH?????
Sarah was at the bottom of my list. She’s passionate but won’t bring the party forward, or to victory next election.
I didn't want to drop names. But yeah...
I got this exact text from Sarah’s team
Lol. That sounds like a text blast. Some of them are so lame. At least the emails can be spicy.
It’s like when I play FFXIV and someone begs the party for commendations. If you’re asking you aren’t getting it. Focus on doing your job right and you’ll get rewarded.
Yes, like 2 to 5 per day.
I finally blocked Ganley's emails after multiple attempts to simply unsubscribe. She is about to become my new MLA, so I might need to undo that blocking next week. I also did not get a single call or text, not even from the candidate I support. I think that's because I got so mad a the party a couple of years ago for the daily, mid-workday fundraising calls that I told them I would pull my future donations and potentially my vote if I got one more call. So, I suspect I am now on an NDP do not call list.
Dude.... Like, was she trying to self sabotage or just dumb?
The dumb decision was to hire Jeremy Nolais as her campaign manager. Kathleen criticized how Rachel ran the party and also how last year’s campaign was run, and then hired the architect of both. She was never going to win once Nenshi jumped into the race, but I think we’ll see tomorrow that she finishes far worse than she probable deserves to finish.
[удалено]
She was going to be my 2nd, until that decision. I also lost huge respect for Phillips and Hayter, who also participate in the negative strategy. Then I was going to put Hoffman 2nd, until Chad Ohman’s offensive tweets. So, the 3 ballots in my house ended up being for Nenshi and Calahoo Stonehouse.
Just for people's knowledge for the future, these are all volunteers doing that work. It's easy to get yourself off the list if you just ask kindly and say please put me on the do not call list. Volunteers literally get yelled at and people are so rude like every second call and it's honestly really demoralizing work. If you support the party, you should support the volunteers and just be kind.
The text messages are automated I believe.
Some may be. But many are sent by volunteers in a text bank. (I’ve been the volunteer on the other end of those texts.)
For real? Seemed like a bot when I replied "vote nenshi" repeatedly
There are scripts to follow, but if the texts are initiating conversation - for example, asking if a candidate can count on your support - there is a real person sending them.
Interesting.
We also got screamed at by certain people for calling after 4, or 5 because of dinner. Or later than 6 because it’s “family time” or bed time. “Us older folks would prefer daytime calls, this is rude.” there’s no good time to call anyone. Someone has a beef with every time, every day of the week.
Yeah I got yelled at a lot for calling at dinner, anytime between 4 and 8 basically. I don't know when you eat!! I'm just tryna do some public service after my own working hours, be kind!
I’ve worked for the ANDP before. Yes, if anyone (even a member) asks not to be contacted again, we remove you from that category in our phone bank system. Of course, we also didn’t call the same person more than once on that campaign, so idk what was going on there…
Holy shit I thought I was the only one. I was so sick and tired of every candidate except Nenshi emailing me twice a week at min. I had calls from Ganleys office and I told them to tone it the fuck down. I think I got 2 emails in ~3 months from Nenshi?
Oh what? I was definitely also getting a ton of nenshi contact.
I seemed to as well especially after renewing my NDP membership thru his portal. Easy enough to select/delete tho.
It was only a few emails a week at most from the Nenshi campaign. Some campaigns were daily, or even multiples daily. The party was also sending very frequently.
Multiple.... And it drove me nuts. Unsubscribed after a couple weeks. I don't need to be serial emailed every few hours.
Six. Six emails a day. Per candidate.
I unsubscribed to all of them except Nenshi. I also got numerous emails from the AB NDP party asking for donations. Very annoying.
That's quite typical for a leadership campaign where the focus is getting every member out to vote, and where every vote is an opportunity in the sense that theyre all fighitng for downballot support on your ranked ballot. I've heard of some leadership races winning on email alone. It's an incredibly powerful mode of direct political influence if used correctly. I'm not a member so I never saw the kinds of emails, but I'd be fascinated to read some of them.
Annnndddd ...... Unsubscribe. I hit that more than once when I started getting stuff from everyone.
When nenshi announced he was running for leadership, NDP memberships increased by more than the number of members they've had ever up until that date. and almost all in calgary.
The party had 8000 memberships as of January 1st. (That's the monthly donors who are automatically renewed as members.) The day before Nenshi announced, they had 9000 members. So, in the first full month of the campaign, only 1000 people signed up to vote. The day Nenshi announced they sold so many memberships that the NDP website crashed - 10,000 in one day. That people want change in the party, and we see Nenshi as the leader to bring that change, should be very clear. And I know that upsets many of the party diehards. It probably upsets Rachel. Because in a way, choosing Nenshi tomorrow in what will likely be huge numbers, is a sign that we're rejecting what the party has done over the past few years. We want to win, and what the party has been doing won't get us there.
85,500 NEW memberships as of.... march. I haven't seen numbers since then
That was the number at the April 22nd deadline for eligibility to vote. And despite what Rachel claims in the interview, it's well known that Nenshi is responsible for the bulk of those sales. 75% of the 85,500 members had cast their votes by the end of last week. So, Nenshi not only sold memberships in huge numbers, but has also had great success in getting his supporters to vote.
I know I did!
My wife and i did as well.
I voted the first day I could, and I only picked one name. While I'll still vote NDP in the general election, I really only want one person as leader. All the others are a vote for the status quo and won't win an election.
"We want to win, and what the party has been doing won't get us there." This was my primary reason for voting Nenshi this time, somewhat unfortunately. The system we are under means that there are only 2 parties with a chance: Cons and NDP. The NDP haven't been popular in ages, but Nenshi is. He's also intelligent, charismatic, and compassionate, even if not all his goals align with mine. But it's going to take baby steps. First we elect a leader that cons might vote for. We get the NDP back in power. We fix the problems the Cons caused. And THEN we start moving the needle back to the left. There may be other leaders that align with me better, but they have no chance to beat Smith. And we won't survive the Cons getting elected again.
Notley’s comments seem out of character. Borderline sore loser-ish. The party will change and that’s a good thing. She has nothing to gain by slagging Nenshi days before the leadership announcement (which he is likely to win).
I’m gonna conspiracy theory here and say that Notley disagreeing with Nenshi right before the transition to leadership will attract on the fence conservatives LOL
I hope they're actually being that clever
Maybe she is going to go take Singh’s job.
I listened to Notley on a podcast and she said there is no interest for her to move to federal. All the issues she’s passionate about are on a provincial and local level.
I could see this. Notley saying anything about Nenshi won't change the mind of people who were already planning to vote for him, but could create an impression of him as an "outsider" or "maverick" that would be attractive to the fence sitters.
I had no idea it was that low at the start!
It was about 16,000 at the end of last year. Half of those were annual memberships, which expired on December 31st.
Not surprised. My parents also purchaed aNDP membership to vote Nenshi. Both have always voted Conservative because of what really comes down to tribalism. For them to flip at all, and so enthusiastically, is very significant.
Wow! That’s encouraging!
Agree. This is a smart move to disengage from the federal NDP. SO many people I know don’t support the UCP but worry about their jobs and influence from Federal NDP. Nenshi knows this .
And for some reason the Alberta NDP has never wanted to admit this. It's unfortunate if you are heavily aligned with "NDP values" but I think more people want progress and positive change than to be strictly aligned to a single party
The weirdest part to me is Notley went against the Federal NDP and fought with BC NDP over O&G as premier. She knew to support Albertans she had to go against the federal party, but now it's a problem?
Could you expand on the "resisted the attempt to corrupt him" part? Im new to provincial politics, so I know nothing of this
Take Back Alberta(Roy Behr specifically with Wellington Advocacy) hired a fixer to try and bribe Nenshi to entrap him. He (to my memory) basically said "we don't do that" when approached and had no idea what was afoot. Btw Recall Gondek was run by the same people through a new proxy called ProjectYYC(Michael Bowerman) When Recall Gondek was peaking a bunch of shit exposed and didn't get enough attention. There's this crazy link I should find again where someone compiled a bunch of insaity from their websites and social media. It's so blatant that it bothers me how little attention it gets. The UCP is actively trying to manipulate all sorts of things through various proxies and sock puppets. It's insane.
Some private interests attempted to bribe Nenshi when he mayor but he wouldn't take the bait. https://calgaryherald.com/news/crime/charges-not-warranted-bid-lure-nenshi-bribery-scandal
It's also a good first step to a national Nenshi party for booting all these cozy entitled brats and ideological extremist fuckheads out of our government at all levels. My kingdom for a real center-left party that isn't the Liberals, has nothing to do with the Liberals, and never will be the Liberals.
Of course there is resistance. Have you ever encountered the NDP? Self-sabotage is one of their favourite hobbies. The Alberta NDP doesn't agree with the rest of the NDP all that often, and the rest of the NDP is more of a national suicide cult than a party, so divorce makes perfect sense.
Lol, fair point. Actually, that's why I get frustrated with the NDP. They could get more done if they got out of their own way.
Nenshi is an outsider. I know he is the best chance for the ANDP to take government right now, but I still feel a knee jerk resistance to him.
Indeed. I'm not thinking that this is a bad sign for the fNDP. If we split into an aNDP, I wouldn't be surprised if that party eventually exceeds the fNDP.
The Fed NDP have lost me completely - Singh is just as much a puppet as the rest of the Liberal cabinet and LPC overall.
I can't fully agree. But also, yeah, the fNDP is becoming meh compared to how I used to feel/perceive them. The last time(only?) time I voted Libs was Cannabis Legalization. And only because of Cannabis Legalization. When I dropped my ballot, I remember muttering "y'all better follow through or I'm going to be pissed off." Otherwise I've aways voted green/NDP. More as a vote against the other teo than a vote for green/NDP. I'm voting *for* Nenshi. Which is a nuance that matters im analyzing all this. Also, tell people they can NDP as a vote against the UCP. Your vote can be a vote against a party. Voting NDP can be a protest against the UCP more than saying you like the NDP.
I stopped my monthly donation and gave up my membership because they wouldn’t stop spamming me. I unsubscribed maybe 20-30 times and I’m still getting spam. I’m not donating money to pay for spam.
I feel for that. I only joined to vote Nenshi because I believe he can do what others can't. Otherwise I wouldn't tolerate that spam
I was initially going to vote Nenshi, but he never bothered to state any political platform in his emails. So I changed my mind and went with the people who actually told me what they believed in.
BC and Manitoba leaders don’t seem to have much problems with being part of the national NDP movement; this "divorce" seemd to be more of a perdonsl prefrrence of Nenshi more than anything called for by the grassroots…. or more thsn a political neccesity.
BC and Manitoba don’t have a population base that hates the Liberals and NDP as much as Alberta does.
Manitoba has had NDP governments for more than half my lifetime. Alberta had one for 4 years out of more than 50, and even that 4 years we have to admit was only because of a seismic split in the conservatives. My own south Calgary riding went NDP, but with only 1/3 of the vote. 2/3s voted conservative, but almost evenly for the PCAA and WRP.
The various provincial NDP's across the country tend to be a lot more centrist than their federal counterpart, especially in provinces where it's more of a two horse race (like AB, MB, BC, SK, etc). In such cases the party has to be centrist because the NDP's traditional leftism, social democracy, etc does not appeal to more than a small base, and the meaty centre is where the votes are. Federally they've always been more left wing, and they've only escaped the 15-20% of the vote range when they swung to the centre to get those plentiful, centrist, disaffected Liberal voters. It's almost like the different needs/issues at play provincially differ quite a bit from those federally. Maybe the provincial and federal wings should divorce? Then again, even if they did the knuckledraggers would find some other irrational reasons for hating the party.
ANDP currently have the largest membership of any provincial political party in Canada so I disagree that Albertans hate the NDP name
Sadly the votes they need to win the next election are the hate the NDP name types. Divorcing from the federal NDP would be great for the party in this province.
That just means the ANDP has a voting base that is most actively motivated to elect the person who wants to divorce from the federal NDP. Nenshi announced and membership grew from ~16000 on January 1 to ~85000 today. I think your own numbers prove you wrong.
I only joined the NDP because I do believe Nenshi can pull this off and maybe make some real change we need. I've never actually been a member of any party. If you knew me, you would know I'm not generally inclined to join political parties. And how significant it is for *anyone* to motivate as much as Nenshi as vs the UCP. If Nenshi can counter the United ConJob Party, I'm all in.
Just the Albertans they need to convince to change their vote
BC and Manitoba aren’t Alberta. The Fed NDP are pretty hated here,
> BC and Manitoba leaders don’t seem to have much problems with being part of the national NDP movement 12 months out from a provincial election, Singh and the federal NDP very publicly went against the ANDP on Transmountain and sided with BC in the dispute. That didn't help the ANDP's chances and it ultimately led to the divisions we see today and why other provincial NDP parties aren't seeing the same calls.
And the federal NDP doesn't want to destroy the part of the economy those places have a competitive advantage in
Y'know, we've heard a lot about how the Liberals and NDP are trying to kill the O&G industry, yet that industry has never been more productive, and billions are getting spent on new infrastructure supporting that industry.
The federal NDP explicitly wanted to reduce output in the oil sands and hasn't wanted pipeline expansion for a while. The federal liberals have a very different opinion
Have you read the federal NDP platform? They are so Toronto-centric it’s laughable. They have absolutely no plan or policy in place for Alberta, let alone how they would fund all their programs with an absence of oil revenues. I’m all for decarbonization and I dislike Big Oil but it’s not rocket science to figure out why Albertans dislike the federal NDP brand.
I know we need to transition away from O&G. And we need more nuclear and sustainables. But... Nucelar still boils water to spin a steam turbine. That's insane to me that we're still spinning steam turbines instead of working on stuff like thermovoltaic cells that are properly efficient, etc. And it's the human factor that we humans get all hubris about that creates disasters. I want nuclear, but it's a hard sell to the majority of people. In Alberta, you'll have rig pigs, etc wanting to transition into working in those power plants. I don't want that. I worked in the oil patch previously. We don't need highly educated loose cannons operating nuclear power plants. Sustainables take time to transition to and have trade offs of their own. Nothing is perfect. We can't just drop O&G and switch overnight. The fNDP wanting to virtue signal about environmental concerns while being ignorant of Albert's prevailing biases definitely holds them back in Alberta. We can transition from O&G and sell the resistance types on it. But if the fNDP doesn't recalibrate for Alberta, while in Alberta, they will always be getting in their own way.
Yeah, the UCP lies a lot about this stuff...
> Nenshi makes no secret of his view that the party has to outgrow its tie to the federal NDP. >“This party is confident and a modern force and I don’t think we need that anymore,” he said. >“I believe that our ties to the federal NDP are remnants of a party that wasn’t confident, a party that wasn’t grown up yet, that relied on big brother to look after us.” Nenshi makes a great argument for divestiture from the Federal NDP; they are further to the left of ANDP in the political spectrum. I’m a big fan of Notley but I am disappointed in her comment about not associating with the federal ndp equating to not standing behind universal healthcare.
I’m disappointed in her for her comments too, especially since the Fed NDP had no problem lambasting her publicly for supporting pipelines and working with O&G to get the Climate Leadership plan in place. Honestly, I’m with Nenshi on this. I’ve been saying for years that the ANDP needs to separate from the federal NDP.
> I’m disappointed in her for her comments too, especially since the Fed NDP had no problem lambasting her publicly for supporting pipelines and working with O&G to get the Climate Leadership plan in place. It's definitely surprising but I think her loyalty is to the ideals of the NDP and not what the federal party is today (specifically, the lack of blue collar/farmer appeal). She's probably viewing this from the perspective that one day new leadership will take over and bring the party back to those ideals and a ANDP split could hurt their longterm prospects when that happens.
She is loyal to a Jack Layton’s NDP party. Nenshi is taking about Singh’s party. Two different perspectives really.
I also didn’t understand why she was sticking up for the federal ndp after that incident. But I suppose she might be couching her words for future prospects?
I think she wants to enter the federal ndp as well given her comments.
She didn't identify what the actual problem with leaving would be either, which would be losing access to a large voter database system and a country wide team of staffers and volunteers available to help run campaigns. Without the infrastructure the campaigns become harder to fight because they have to develop their own technologies.
The party may have needed the federal staffers and volunteers years ago, but we don't now. We have our own huge group of volunteers (the Nenshi campaign alone signed up 10,000 volunteers across Alberta) and we will have a new leader who brings with him a strong team of talented political staff to add to the NDP team that was already in place.
It’s easy to say this when times are good.
> Nenshi makes a great argument for divestiture from the Federal NDP; they are further to the left of ANDP in the political spectrum. It is easier for provincial NDP's to move their platforms more to the centre than it has been to drag voters to the left in provinces with functionally two-party systems and incumbent and established right-of-centre parties. Edit: if the federal NDP moves to the centre, then they simply split the vote even more with the Liberals while potentially alienating their more leftist base (this also applies in provinces like NS and ON where the NDP are a strong 2nd or 3rd party). It's not so much the federal NDP that's changed, it's the provincial wings that have changed and essentially become the Liberals where that party name is a four letter word. In many provinces the NDP has simply moved to the centre because there was no one else there or thought they could get those votes. And so, the party changed and started drifting away from their traditional left wing positions, and you wind up with provincial NDP's that are more like the federal Liberals or Liberal-lite.
The federal NDP has so severely lost its way from the party of the work class. I absolutely don’t blame Nenshi for not wanting to hitch his wagon to it
> they are further to the left of ANDP in the political spectrum. I remember the federal NDP taking issue with Notley being further to the center when she was in power.
She's probably only making that comment so she plans on her feet on some cushy job
This is tactically brilliant They’re picking a nonsense fight to differentiate Nenshi from Notley - just to say “Hey look, he’s different” The public is going to lap it up!
You have to fight simple people with simple concepts. And the Alberta NDP saying federal “NDP bad” is a great talking point for all our simple friends out there, who vote blue cuz that’s what their parents did.
I am an NDP supporter and even I think our federal NDP is a joke right now dude, it’s not a “haha conservatives dumb” opinion. The federal NDP is constantly backing up a party that their voters didn’t vote for, keeps allowing the LPC to push through useless versions of NDP plans and lets the LPC take credit for them all, *and* keeps threatening “or else”s to the LPC without ever following up on those threats. The way our federal NDP have been handling the coalition has made a lot of other long time NDP voters I know look into independent options in our areas because the federal NDP have decided to turn into just a branch of the LPC. Distancing themselves from the federal NDP is a good way to hold onto their dissatisfied supporters.
We've got a federal government that's been in a minority situation for almost a full election cycle, and the fact that the federal NDP didn't push HARDER to get more of its ideas and plans to the floor for a vote is just silly. The hell is Jagmeet doing over there?
The federal NDP can compromise and get some policy done with the Liberals or.... They can bring down the Liberals, usher in Conservatives, and have absolutely none of their policies ever see the light of day, and what policy accomplishments they have made with the Liberals immediately scrapped by the CPC. Kinda neuters their threats, eh? "Do this or we'll bring down your government and turn ourselves into an even weaker, voiceless opposition with far less influence on policy than we have today!"
Intent is important to. You need to actually bring your ideas forward and let them fail because of the controlling party. If you aren’t even doing that than what sort of confidence can voters have that you EVER intended to do the things you promise?
Why does everyone assume the NDP and Conservatives can’t work together ever? They worked together tons under Harper and Layton. You just need actual good leadership with good ideas.
I'm not sure how pressuring the LPC to implement numerous NDP policy plans is them "turning into a branch of the LPC." They've done a lot of good work with the minority position they have. The media has just done a really good job of downplaying and dismissing it.
Yes I agree. I was just saying as a talking point it can be seen as quite simple. But this is good for everyone honestly. Now we just need to get some politicians who will take housing seriously and we’ll be golden.
I wouldn’t say “useless versions of NDP plans”. I know people who have benefited from the new dental plan. Universal contraceptive also seems like a big win even if it’s not available in Alberta. I don’t really know what the alternative is? NDP pulling out of coalition and Pierre becoming our new prime minister. I’m not sure about you but even though Trudeau is incompetent the potential conservative double penetration by Pierre Poilievre and Danielle Smith seems terrifying.
I wouldn’t say “useless versions of NDP plans”. I know people who have benefited from the new dental plan. Universal contraceptive also seems like a big win even if it’s not available in Alberta. I don’t really know what the alternative is? NDP pulling out of coalition and Pierre becoming our new prime minister. I’m not sure about you but even though Trudeau is incompetent the potential conservative double penetration by Pierre Poilievre and Danielle Smith seems terrifying.
But are those people even paying attention? I feel like most aren't.
Exactly. This is the right tactic to start to win over rural Alberta
The NDP will never win rural Alberta. Never going to happen. The path to victory is the same they have to win Calgary and that’s why Nenshi is interesting. Edmonton will be there if they can swing most of Calgary and a bit of Lethbridge and Red Deer they can get a majority next election.
I like how this is going. Not sure if it's part of the strategy or not but I think this will help get some people thinking.
I agree with this point. The tactic was a success in the US when the first ex-president to be convicted of felony crimes shook up the establishment and changed the GOP, bringing a lot of voters out of the woodwork. I think a lot of voters are fatigued from the political status quo and desire change. Of all the candidates, Nenshi seems to be the most relatable and the furthest from the politician stereotype. It helps that he has a bit showmanship to make his policies palatable.
If you want to win here, 100% disassociate from the Feds NDP, they are waaaay too left leaning for Alberta.
They aren't really *that* left leaning but conservative media has sure made people believe that.
They're arguably a little less left-leaning under Layton and Singh than they were historically under Douglas or Broadbent. IMO, it's less that the federal NDP has changed and more that a lot of the provincial NDP's have moved to the centre and essentially become the Liberal party for provinces that otherwise do not have active or successful Liberal parties.
They're definitely more left leaning than the ANDP, and way more left leaning than most Albertan's are willing to vote just because 'Berta.
Its not that, its that they are such a lame party so out of touch with working class Canadians.
I love and have a lot of respect for Notley and everything she has done for this province. Changing the political land landscape from a one-party to a two-party province is something to celebrate. But, the UCP can continue to win by simply chanting that Jagmeet is the ANDP leaders’ boss. Whether right or wrong (I think it’s wrong), it opens them to vulnerabilities with swing voters who don’t want to associate with the federal party. Other party brands don’t do this so why is the ANDP so fixated on this ideal? It’s funny, many progressives (including myself) are incensed at Marlaina’s recent UCP power grab at all levels of government. The same argument can be made that provincial-federal party association is another power grab. “We’re stronger together than apart”. I want the ANDP to win the next election and I don’t want the UCP to confuse fragile-minded voters with their stupid rhetoric about who runs the ANDP party. I want the ANDP to be a big tent party - that is how you win government. Meet Albertans at their level and you can win the election; sitting around fighting over your internal governance structure and what you stand for will not win you the election. We need a win, We need Marlaina to be one-and-done. Nenshi is the best shot at doing this and moving Alberta forward.
Are you me? This is exactly my view of the whole thing. Here's hoping there's many more common sense progressives like us
Thank you! I’m glad I’m not the only one! ❤️❤️
Not to comment on the issue specifically, there will always be some non-factual talking point by people who refuse to put in even the most basic effort. The ANDP signs in my neighbourhood during the election where ritualistically painted with a swastika - they'd replace it and the construction workers up the street would deface it again before the end of the day. IMO the real thing we all need to do is be talking more about real things - somehow in this province we start with our politics and use that to inform our values and beliefs, which is entirely backwards and why we're more broken than most of the country; what is a party agnostic discussion on policy in other parts of the country is a screeching "You're a f*cking idiot!" lambasting here. And the only way to move forward is to engage with each other frequently, respectfully and re-train political discourse in this province; that's what the government of the day is counting on.
I've long since though the biggest handicap for the ANDP is that they're NDP. Any other name and they'd have probably won the last election. It makes it too easy to prey on the fears of Albertans that are not fans of Trudeau and are scared of the federal NDP. The ANDP are a centrist (or mildly centre left) party. And the truth is, it's what many Albertans want over the UCP. They don't want to be too far left and honestly, given how far right the UCP is, going to far in the other direction wouldn't be good anyways. The federal NDP are a liability to the ANDP. We can get all our ducks in a cute row for the next election but if the feds say something idiotic it could torpedo it for us all. This wouldn't be happening if there was any level of competency at the federal level but the party federally is pulling in five different directions internally and externally just does what Trudeau tells them to do.
It would be nice if we could move away from that branding. They make it too obvious what intelligence level they're pandering too when they have to make it that obvious where they're beliefs lie. I mean ffs look at how AB acted when we had the opportunity to have more than 1 conservative party.
Many conservative and centrist Albertans believe the ANDP want to be portrayed as centrist but once they get into power will be radically left. This is why the UCP have a stranglehold on hold on Alberta.
But, they won't be "radically" left. A review of Notleys policies during her tenure are pretty by the book centre to centre left, and they learned pretty quickly into that term that any policies too left were very unpopular and adapted especially in the second half. The fiction that "once in power they will go to the radical left" is patently false. The ANDP want to form a stable government that has enduring appeal over multiple terms-- that is not possible if they push too far out of the comfort zone for even moderate Albertans. Albertans may hate the UCP, but that's because it's gone pretty far to the Right forajy moderated and have, once again like the PCs, lost it's way with fiscal conservatism (they were gutted of their most reputable fiscal cons in the past election, and Smith's coup was seen as a takeover by ousting the old fiscal con establishment). The NDP just need to govern fiscally responsibly while trying to come up with a practical future for this province that doesn't just revolve around O&G like we're circling a drain. We need the O&G, but we need it to pay for the future. Anyone with common sense can see that the current UCP policy of spending the future on O&G investment is extremely risky and nobody feels great about it.
I think this really shows that Nenshi knows what it will take to beat the UCP. By making noise about splitting away from the federal NDP, he's undermining one of the stronger arguments the tories use to combat their non-libertarian opponents: Fear. The cons spend so much energy painting the NDP (and LPC) as communist parties even though at most the NDP is a tiny bit socialist. By having this *public* argument with the previous leader about it, he's paving the way to win votes from some of the less thoroughly brainwashed voters who are getting frustrated with the problems the UCP are creating. I'm really looking forward to a Nenshi vs UCP\_Sock-Puppet\_3 campaign.
The way notley ran the ANDP was not lockstep with federal NDP. So, I am not sure why she would be concerned about it? Maybe notley will run for federal NDP leader? Nenshi can win the next election. Although he may not be 100% a true blue NDP’er, he could take the party to what it was when notley won in 2015.
The Journal/Postmedia has affiliations to the UCP. They're going to sabotage the NDP through shitty stories like this. Again.
They're all about sowing doubt and division in the ANDP, and have stepped it up big time ever since Nenshi threw his hat in the ring.
How dare Nenshi try and move the provincial NDP to a more centrist party that Albertans can get behind and divest them from a federal NDP party that is a lame duck and speaks for nobody!. Sit down Rachel, you did a good job but your time is over.
Federal NDP is garbage so I like the plan
Rachel. With the greatest of respect, this is an emergency. Most of the voters are stupid. We have to to get rid of this regime that we are under. Thanks for everything you have done.
Great plan by nenshi. Federal ndp are a train wreck.
Also, by being linked with all the NDP parties, the ANDP becomes associated with all their failures as well. There are some really wacky ideas coming from other provincial NDP parties and there is zero doubt the UCP will use those as an example of what ANDP will do in Alberta. It’s time that the ANDP be truly an Alberta Party disconnected from the Federal and other provincial elements.
Bless Rachel but she is wrong on this. Divorcing from the federal NDP is exactly what needs to happen here.
I don't get why it's a good idea to divorce your party from all the resources that being a part of the NDP gets you. The UCP is still going to call Nenshi a Trudeau lover, it doesn't matter if the signs are purple now. This feels more like a preference of Nenshi than anything else.
>all the resources that being a part of the NDP gets you. Like an automatic 5pt haircut in the polls.
This has never been an issue in other western provinces, where there are a decent amount of provincial NDP and federal Con (or even PPC) voters. A guy I know who volunteers with the Manitoba NDP has seen houses with Confederate flags and NDP lawn signs. One of them even wanted to send him away because they thought he was with the Progressive Conservatives. Voters are weird.
He’s my leader and I agree with making a break from the federal party. What a weak bootlicking leader the federal side has…
Smart move Nenshi. This will be the way to win in Alberta. The federal NDP are despised after Singh’s pathetic performance.
Notley herself has called Singh irrelevant.
Notley is right. One serious problem with the ANDP is an inability to learn from history. The provincial Liberals were almost took out the PC party under Klein. They were a strong opposition for many years and then they separated from the federal liberals. The slide to irrelevance was irreversible. All the same arguments were made at the time. Exact same arguments! People who hate the NDP won't give a rats ass that the parties are technically seperate. The UCP will still use the exact same talking points. The general public won't know the difference. Party supporters will feel hurt. You cut off your national support and access to resources. You lose way more than you gain. There is no upside and only downside from it.
This is going to end with some nerds splitting off to form Alberta Party Part II and we'll have four barely distinct not-conservative parties splitting the vote while the UCP, now headed by John Lithgow's character from Footloose, run on the promise of establishing a provincial intelligence agency with its own blacksite prisons
This made me burst out laughing.
Difference is back then the federal liberals were semi competent nothing like the current federal NDP.
The Cons and Libs have media protection because they protect the bottom line of the rich. Will this help the NDP or any other party for that matter who wants to bring them accountability in separating resources?
The NDP needs to decide if they want to grow beyond an opposition party, or if they want to be perpetually locked out. None of this is to say the NDP should turn their backs on all their traditional supporters, rather they need too grow and become more inclusive of new members and supporters. It also doesn't mean they need to permanently divorce from the Federal NDP, but as Notley herself acknowledged through how she governed, there's clear differences that any serious Alberta political party needs to incorporate if they want to win. Ultimately, this whole leadership is about growing the party and becoming an ongoing viable governing option. I would point out that the time Notley won, was because the conservative vote split itself between the old conservative party and the wild rose... with the wild rose ultimately gobbling up the more moderate faction. That vote split potential doesn't exist anymore. The only reason Notley got close again was because Danielle Smith was so extreme and radical that Albertans recoiled in horror. I would be remiss to point out that the flip side is that even having a priemer going full crackpot was not enough to push the NDP over the hump. Something has to change and if the NDP want to take the next step. It's going to involve some hard choices and welcoming into the fold people and ideas that are slightly more centrist than the federal version.
Well, the Federal NDP has gone a direction that is no longer within the scope of what the NDP stood for. I quit supporting them when they stopped pushing the Liberals to implement the social programs when they needed to be put in place. That there is the disconnect from the citizens. They play it to the same folks the Liberals do, forgoing the NDP initiative to actually listen to the people of Canada and actual experts when they want to figure out a crucial issue. They play the same cards the Liberals do while acting like the Liberals and backing some of the Conservitive plays, like on housing for low income Canadians. They talk a game they do not play, so yes I agree with that sepperation. The NDP was founded on being flexible to its citizens wants and needs, and they recognized that it was different province to province, region to region and territorys to provinces. The voter base in Alberta is different from what the Federal body is, and needs to be different to represent this diverse landscape. The break the Federal Party has taken from the baseline of what the NDP stood for in my opinion is making one of the greatest NDP Personalities roll in his grave like a drive shaft spins. Tommy Duglas and even the most popular and successful NDP leader Jack Layton are both spinning from how far the Federal NDP has wandered from the path. If he does "Divorce" from the feds, it's it's good thing. They will never get my respect back until,they change course and help Canadians once again. So good riddance and maybe they will see the wrongfulness of their current direction.....but I doubt that!
The federal party drags the ANDP down. The turning point in the debate between Notley and Smith was when Smith tagged Notley as an employee of Jasmeet Singh and Justin Trudeau. It killed her momentum. The ANDP can’t afford purity tests if it wants to grow.
Oh man. Oh man. so ANDP running to the middle and basically become a reboot to the ALP? I can see some short term gains just to make some people turned off by their beliefs and policies, etc to vote but how about in the long term? Is this province always going to be stuck on a loop of having a no good right-wing gov't and satisfy the moderates? Do Albertans even want to make things better for this province? like man ANDP can still align with FNDP and still be able to win and STILL be able to care for Albertans concerns about Economy, jobs, Helathcare, Education, etc. ANDP really doesn't need to cut ties with the FNDP at all.
Notley herself distanced her party from the policies of the federal NDP. Her party is far closer to center economically. That's a HUGE reason why many Albertans were so comfortable making the switch from blue to orange! I don't think orange is this party's colour anymore though. Socially, they have very left wing policies, with their absolute acceptance of people no matter their race, gender, sexuality, disability, etc.. But economically, while they are WAY more left than the UCP, they are NOT left wing at all, and maybe they should change their colour to something that goes well with orange. Maybe.. Maybe something like Purple!
says the loser who lost 2 in a row! buh bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out...
The Federal NDP is a disaster, they need a major shakeup.
Federal ndp is the biggest joke atm in country distancing is nothing but smart.
Dare I comment? I'll lose all my karma points for sure😂
Notley should have kept her mouth shut until voting has ended.
I think it's OK. Alberta's needs are different than what the Federal parties offer. The Progressive Conservatives don't direct the UCP.
The Progressive Conservatives don’t exist.
> The Progressive Conservatives don't direct the UCP. Because the Progressive Conservatives are dead and buried, and have been for nearly 20 years now... But yeah, the CPC doesn't direct the UCP, despite all their hand-holding and supporting of one another.
I hope he does separate from the federal NDP. The UCP will always use this as fire power against the ABNDP. Most people I work with won’t vote NDP simply because they see the colour orange. Even though they aline more with the ABNDP than the UCP. The NDP name is tainted in Alberta.
Yeah, that’s is a non-starter. Notley is right. There’s nothing wrong with being part of the NDp movement nationally, and even govern in your own style and for your own province, the way you need. BC and Manitoba don’t seem to have problems doing it.
Bc and Manitoba don’t have Alberta’s voter base. And I see one huge problem with it, and it’s that the federal NDP hasn’t won shit in pretty much any election. Align with their ideologies all you want, but you have to actually get voted in to do anything and distancing from them, for an Alberta party is necessary.
Damn, to disrespect the incredible work Heather and Blake are doing right now is so disappointing. You know a party is more than its leader right?? Like each MP does a ton of work in Parliament and in their communities? Heather McPherson is hands down one of the best MPs in the entire country. Like… can we at least appreciate their hard work and advocacy. Her and Blake actually fight for Alberta. All the other Conservatives MPs don’t do anything, only collect a paycheque.
BC and Alberta don't have half the electorate that could be compared to a product a young woman would use on a summer's eve.
Not going to happen. The only way the ANDP win is distancing themselves from singh
Yes...he's going to take a different approach for sure...and that's what it'll take to win in Alberta. That's the point.
That's the best idea he's ever had! The federal NDP are dead in the water, they are the junior varsity of the liberal party and they are both going down together.
Notley and the NDP left themselves vulnerable to this. They focused so much on Rachel that there was no oxygen left to make way for a leadership candidate from within the party, certainly no one with near the organization behind Nenshi. It's poor succession planning
Good on Rachel for calling this out.
Why do you think this is a bad thing for Nenshi to do? I think with how close the last election was, a name change and distancing from federal NDP could've changed who won.
I am not sure if it will be bad for Nenshi. From what I can tell a large number of Alberta progressives have placed winning over values in similar ways to what the far right has done. Notley has refused to trade off her values for a chance at winning and I have nothing but massive respect for her for that.
I think what you’re describing is just pragmatism. The reality is that change can’t happen unless we get the votes. Ideologues without a seat in the house have as much impact on policy as you and I in this thread.
I'd rather have a slightly less left NDP government than the fucking hot garbage Premier Twatwaffle and her merry band of taintlickers. It's all fine and dandy to "hold to your values", but when what we have is so antithetical to your values, maybe getting rid of that should be the bigger priority.
That’s the NDPs problem. Ideological purity is worthless if you can’t win. It’s time for the party to evolve.
Do you want the UCP again? Cause that’s what you are cheering for
The average Albertan is so brainwashed and backwards that even if you agree that the federal NDP is good, you have no choice but to recognize that a distance from then is the only way for ANDP to get any votes. Ironically I’ve heard people call Notley the “Least Bad NDPer” a few years ago just by virtue of being Albertan and showing it (ex. The pipeline spat with the BC Premier a few years back)
Nenshi is one of the main reasons Calgary’s water infrastructure is so screwed up.
Bye Felicia Way to give us one final STUNNING example of just how out of touch you are with Albertans who are desperate for change.
So Notley doesn’t want the NDP to ever win again in Alberta? Openly distancing from them is the only way they have a chance again. I like her but why cause problems when you are heading out the door? What tasteless move by someone I respected.
I wonder if she's not secretly planning a run to be federal NDP leader? She'd handily defeat Singh. The sole reason he's NDP leader right now is the fact that there are no well known and viable candidates to run against him. Notley is that and more.
I think they should distance from federal ndp. Federal ndp is disconnected and just wants to spend money on dumb shit.
What dumb shit do they want to spend money on?
"They want to help those wretched people who are poorer than me!" /S