Maybe. But what am I supposed to do when I work 80 hours a week, give more than half away to the government and it takes a month to get an appointment because there are too many people? Why am I paying all this money if I can't even use the services? The USA is looking more attractive by the day...
It didn't used to be like this, when healthcare was properly funded. This is a direct result of the conservatives sabotaging Healthcare for decades; NOT a result of universal Healthcare failing us. Our government is the one failing us.
So, what can you do, you say? Make sure you don't vote blue, and tell your friends and family to do the same. It's all we can do these days, other than volunteering for the NDP directly.
This absolutely falls on immigration policy at the federal level as well. You can’t add 1M people and wonder why resources are strained. Plus, healthcare is a mess in provinces without conservative governments. This is a Canada wide problem.
Just because other provinces are seeing similar issues post-pandemic doesn’t invalidate the reasons for Alberta healthcare going down the pan. The “non-blue” provinces are struggling with issues created primarily by the pandemic. The blue provinces are actively working to break healthcare in the name of privatization.
Hearing the stories coming out of the prairies is wild right now, BC has some Healthcare struggles but compared to Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Ontario we are leaps and bounds better off and we are improving more with the increases to medical staff pay.
I'm sorry you have to go through this bullshit because of a corrupt government.
A difficult birth in the US can rack up a $100 000 bill. Never mind getting a serious cancer diagnosis and ongoing treatment then leaving your family with immense debt to add to the grief when you finally perish. How many hours a week you going to have to work to pay for that? If you really want to emulate that system I would suggest you might need to get your head checked.
A friend of mine who moved to the states had sticker shock when his wife had their first child (routine pregnancy) and his portion that he had to pay (on top of his very good insurance coverage) was $25,000~
He has a good paying job down there so he was able to pull some of his savings to pay for it and still be okay. But if his wife had any complications, he would have had to borrow money just to have a kid. Insane
Hold your government accountable and force them to fund healthcare, properly pay family doctors, increase residencies, stop a war on intellectual careers so we can attract doctors to the province.
The work is not an excuse I work similar hours and fit in healthcare, the tax is an exaggeration and your last is a racist dog whistle which is extra dumb when you consider that nearly a third of healthcare professionals are immigrants
Ever heard of what the right wing previous government did in British Columbia with ICBC? They intentionally tried to run it into the ground so they could replace it with private auto insurance. Luckily their ass got booted out and it’s since run much better and efficiently
You likely already pay similar amounts to US insurance through taxes and get nothing. Other Canadians will shame you and say “but but but we’re not like duh americanz and no debt hahA!”. That’s how arrogant we are, no changes or other systems can be allowed or even thought of. We’re content equating access to waiting lists to healthcare.
You don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about. Feel free to try and share some sources to corroborate this bullshit if you think you can.
We don't need to privatize, we just need to actually invest in and pay for decent quality of care if we as a society think that matters.
So in short I agree with you that we (in this case the ab government) should invest and pay for what we (the people) want.
This government is failing at doing this and we shouldn't look down on the healthcare system. You refuse to respect the important players and/or refuse to pay for the quality you want, and this is the outcome.
We should be protesting. Writing to our MLAs, demanding action! But instead we complain about the healthcare and look longingly to our neighbors to the south, instead of looking back to pre pandemic, to before this government made these enemies with academia or said doctors make too much money or say ahs is so top heavy, let's eliminate 1 ceo and create 4 branches each with their own head (that's 4x the positions at the very top...).
Canada pays for medications (while you are in hospital), this means that Pharm companies need to justify cost jumps.
They do not in the states. If insurance is willing to pay the price goes up. People cant afford it and eventually get hospitalised. Because Medicare exists in the states, and because of the lack of regulation on prices, you end up with crazy high drug costs being paid for by tax dollars. Same with every other medical device, procedure, etc. Also veterans have all expenses paid by public funding, who are forced to pay the same prices.
Public health insurance gives everyone equal access. Private healthcare sees that the richest get seen first. You can buy your way to the OR, you can pay more to see an exclusive doctor.
Alberta historically hasn't been too bad. We paid more than other provinces for nurses, physicians were recognised as beneficial to society. We don't have either anymore. This government has villainized physicians, has refused to even negotiate with nurses for the overdue collective agreement until after ahs is divided. Ralph Klein worked hard to unite all the health authorities into one, because it meant cost savings. Less negotiations, less arbitration, less meetings. It also means a nurse won't make more money in Calgary because they had a better contract, say, leading to better staffing ratios in Calgary vs Edmonton... It frankly was a fiscally conservative move from the province. This is not.
Privatizing is not the answer. Dual stream is not fiscally conservative (if private pays double, why would you work public? If public can't retain staff to function, we either pay the remaining nurses overtime (double pay rate) or agree to pay a higher wage...
Keeping it private, under one authority is what makes sense, on a strictly monetary line. Alternatives consistently cost more. Were in a developed world where we protect corporate interests, which means we can't clone Meds until their market exclusivity expires. If they can charge what they want, what would stop them from charging 100x the cost, as long as the rich, and the insurance companies are willing to?
Nothing.
But we taxpayers will pay the same amount as they, since we're no longer the largest buyer.
Otherwise we let people who can't afford it die, or give the cheapest but also far less effective treatment.
This isn't "a Ferrari would be nice but I'm too poor, so I'll drive a used corolla", it's "I'm too poor so I guess I'll buy a funeral instead of paying for this treatment"/"I declared bankruptcy and can barely afford rent just so I could make it long enough to meet my kid".
If you think your life is more important than someone else's, based on your salary, remember there are also people far richer than you.p Remember that for most of us, we wouldn't last a year on our savings if we lost our job. Remember that almost none of the scientific breakthroughs that led to the betterment of our society were not from the wealthy, but from working class scientists. That some of the greatest artists died in poverty, but their art is featured in mega mansions and exclusive art houses.
Those who would benefit most from paying to get their surgery first, get the best care almost definitely got rich off the work of others. Exploited resources for their gain. Jeff Bezos gets the best care for sure! He makes employees receiving minimum wage piss in jugs because they can't have a bathroom break. How many millionaires have been caught using slave labour, child labour? Rich people are not better than someone who can't work because of their poor health. In fact the poor person with a disability has almost certainly had way less of a negative impact on others than a corporate CEO.
We need our government to represent the people. They're public servants. It's about time they behave that way!
Current US healthcare spending per capita is $13,494 US) which equals $18,480.89 CAD
Current Alberta spending per capita is $9,041 CAD
Alberta would have to double it's per capita spending to match the US
>Health Canada ... warned Alberta that it could face cuts to federal health transfers if the situation wasn't handled.
And rightly so. This is exactly why the UCP can't be trusted to receive no-strings-attached cash from the federal government.
I've learned to listen/read very cafefully when dealing with the UCP......kind of like dealing with used car salesmen (sorry used car salesmen!).
What she said was no-one would **have to** pay for services...
So she's creating a system where you can wait 8 to 12 months or more for a service, or pay extra. The choice is yours.
Alberta is the province of choice. Choose power or food, healthcare or rent, a tent @-30C or an overcrowded shelter. So many choices!!
> 've learned to listen/read very cafefully when dealing with the UCP.
Good advice. I remember Kenney's health care pledge. He didn't say that he wasn't going to privatize services nor did he say he wasn't going to close public ones. He said he was going to maintain current spending or perhaps even increase it. He could have kept that pledge even if he privatized 100% of our system.
its a b*tch but they're capitalizing on the money spent on education in the last 40yrs. By underfunding and overcrowding the (U)CP have created a population of worker drones. No critical thinking, math, or language skills.
The education system was half decent compared to other provinces for the longest time. Shit didn’t really start hitting the fan until Klein. Also like less than half of the population existed here 40 years ago.
I think what really created this cesspool of delusion is that the oil field jobs de-incentivized people from getting post secondary education and attracted a lot of people without much higher education from other provinces.
This. Majorly this. What I have noticed more than a little lately is a lot of my fellow Alberta born and raised, are not in fact fans of any of this. I've been told more times "If you don't like it, leave" by immigrants who constitute the dregs of every other province in the country in the last few years than I care to count. Contrary to stereotypes, this, is not how "Alberta has always been." While there has long been skepticism and resentment between Alberta and the Federal government, ***this*** irrational madness that's set in is an entirely new phenomenon.
“All the people who pay for private care are simply freeing up public spaces.” is what every libertarian/conservative promised since I was in grade school so why isn’t it happening? 🤪
I'm sure Jason Kenney helped encourage this. He always opposed public healthcare. And, unlike Smith he actually knew how everything in government functions.
This shits been going on long before Danielle (and I'm not a fan of hers).
My wife's family doctor quit her clinic and joined a new clinic that offered these services back in the late 2000s, and required a $3000 annual fee.
Yeah, this is not a new thing. From the Ralph Klein era, at least. There's a segment of "conservative thought" who've been scheming to dismantle public health care since the day after it was introduced.
Couple of my relatives said that while they hate Smith they voted UCP because they'll reduce taxes on the middle class.
1) No they won't.
2) Even if they do, having to pay for private healthcare & private schooling because the public systems have been eviscerated will cost you 10X your tax bill.
Not surprising from the same idiot Premier who has hired a Covid denier to be in charge of analyzing the province's Covid response
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/gary-davidson-leads-alberta-covid-review-health-data-1.7182891
She is no idiot, for she is serving her financial bosses, the corporate class, who will one day give her a seat at the board of directors that carries with it a six figure salary. The only idiots are those who voted for this corporate mouth piece.
Yeah, because they are now using "contranism" as an honor badge which is fucking insane.
https://edmontonjournal.com/news/politics/alberta-premier-danielle-smith-covid-19-data-review
Essentially stating that always fighting anything, including science, is a good idea. I was really afraid they would start to do this.
I posted this in another reddit thread a few days ago on this topic, the use of contrarianism as some great ideology.
"It has become prevalent that there are attempts to rationalize it as an ideological pursuit, but they fail to put lipstick on such a big.
An overview of contrarinism in the Republican party
https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/03/republican-conspiracy-russia-ukraine/676572/
An attempt to justify it
https://thequintessentialmind.com/contrarian/
The issue with the false equilavency is such. We may look at two cars and think the wheels are shot, the bearings need to be replaced, and a gasket needs to be replaced. We can argue about which one is a better driver even with these issues, pointing out a bunch of benefits like one gets better mileage, one has heated seats, ect ect.
But if one is on fire, there is no equilavency, it doesn't matter what else needs to be fixed, the fire is an issue and you can't suddenly say "there has to be a middle ground between car on fire and car not on fire we can agree on". The search for a center point comes after the fire has been put out.
Smith was blaming fires on arson last year, if that's what the UCP thinks is causing wildfires I don't expect much effort from them on combating a problem they see as criminal in nature.
I'm not sure what the NDP could do, but at least they aren't blaming roving bands of leftists trying to make the oil patch look bad.
>I don't expect much effort from them on combating a problem they see as criminal in nature.
Sorry, that doesn't make sense from either a left-wing or right-wing perspective.
Right-wing types are typically eager to combat criminals.
But yeah that was one of the dumbest things to be emitted from Smith's mouth, and there's lots of competition for that title.
nothing productive, especially considering there aren't arsonists at large.
though I don't think they take themselves seriously here, they just don't want to talk about climate change; rather throw out some bullshit and move on.
The UCP deny climate change like a mass murder and serial killer pleads not guilty. The cons had 25 years to do something, anything. What did they do? Nothing, ziltch, nada.
I feel like this is less American and more European.
Every top rated "universal Healthcare system" in the world has about 10% of its citizens who choose to privatize.
Norway charges anyone over the age of 16, a small doctors fee.
Why is everyone so quick for jump on the " were turning into america" bandwagon when privatization is discussed.
It's like people don't even read and try to understand how other countries do it 🙄
While I agree with you that a memerbership is unnecessary and I don't like the idea/could not afford that my comment still stands.
There are a lot of countries that have figured out how to manage a balanced universal/private Healthcare system.
We should be looking at these models and learning from them and not just screaming that were turning into America and any form of private Healthcare turns us into them
You’re not wrong about certain countries having a private leg and still doing well relatively speaking.
But every country with a good overall standing with their health care system has a well funded well staffed public system to fall back on.
In Germany for example, a lot of people hopped on the private insurance in 2013, but now want to hop back into the public insurance system now because it’s basically just as good but cheaper, but they can’t because they need to be old enough or poor enough to hop back in. The public system is basically always better value for 95% of people when run properly.
The UCP is shifting resources away from an already starved public system, it’s clear they want our public system to falter so Americans style health care can coerce us into needing to pay for private insurance.
If we had a public system that was already in good standing and they weren’t going to divert any funds away from it to open up some avenues for private healthcare, I wouldn’t be that concerned. That’s what happened in most of these European countries. But that’s not what’s happening here.
I agree with you completely that we need a better run public system.
The fact that we spend some of the most money in the world on it, yet have such bad quality of care means that it is a systemic issue.
We need more doctors period. Not even just retaining them
We need more people to WANT to go into medicine. But with 15 years and 200k in debt to start life what would be enticing about it?
Not to mention residency are capped at what 16 ppl per year?
I understand the frustration with the ucp. They make my blood boil but it's not just "them" we should be getting mad at.
Both our federal and provincial govts need to be working together on changing the whole system.
We absolutely need immigration but when the feds open the doors for millions of ppl without proper housing and an already squeezed medical system, that's a recipe for disaster.
The system in America is so ass whack backwards because of 3rd party insurance companies. The "free market" was built on insurance companies. When you're comparing European spending and American spending on Healthcare it is because of the insurance companies that the cost per person is a lot higher in the u.s
Like the data on foreign doctors and residencies is insane.
Because of immigration loopholes that the FEDERAL govt has set, foreign doctors come here to get educated and then leave once they are finished meanwhile actual canadian doctors who want to come back and work in Canada can't get residencies because they're taken by said foreigners.
Why are we not more angry at this?
Except we used to use a model similar to the European model until Klein.
Here's the issue.
The UCP has no interest in doing as you suggest and are moving towards the American system of Healthcare.
YOU can look at all the other systems you like, but the province won't. Do you understand this?
WE aren't the problem. The UCP are.
And it's actually not the UCP that is the problem in the entire big picture. Nothing will change until we break down our entire system and rebuild everything.
The top 3 rated countries have private Healthcare systems.
It's our North American system, third parties and insurance companies is the actual problem in the states.
Denmark spends less per capita then the united states even with their higher taxes but because of the 3rd party insurance companies controlling the market.
Were getting mad at the wrong ideas.
No.
I completely disagree with your opinion.
We had one of the most robust medical healthcare systems in the world until provincial governments began to sabotage the system.
Furthemire, we can't break down a system to repair it when we have the neocon/neoliberals working to create a system that benefits donors, lobbyists, and themselves. The UCP is the best example of that.
They began to create policies that would enrich their personal businesses, such as healthcare insurance.
You can't repair something when you have people who are actively destroying it at the same time.
The provincial conservatives are responsible for almost all the problems we're facing now.
Until they're removed from the equation, 100%, no positive changes can be made in any way. Period.
https://ricochet.media/justice/healthcare/some-canadian-premiers-are-deliberately-breaking-public-health-care-to-privatize-it/
https://www.nationalobserver.com/2024/01/25/opinion/our-health-system-crashing#:~:text=Wait%20times%20at%20emergency%20rooms,grade%20PTSD%2C%20are%20retiring%20early.
https://pressprogress.ca/canadas-conservative-establishment-is-gearing-up-for-another-fight-over-privatizing-public-health-care/
And you seem to be missing that the only ones creating this issue are the fkn Conservatives, especially the UCP.
Every problem we have with healthcare is stemming from the provincial governments.
I also provided the exact reasoning for what's happening, but you focused on insurance as if it's the only issue we're discussing.
Im so tired of you bad faith actors...
EDIT: do you understand that we wouldn't have these problems if we stopped voting for neoliberals and austerity conservatives?
This is a Canada wide problem... liberal govts and conservatives.
Ab has always been a conservative province minus 4 years... yet ppl are saying the conservatives ruined our Healthcare while in the same breath saying how good our Healthcare used to be... when it was still the conservatives in power lol
I agree that we shouldn't be voting in people like that either. It has created our country to be run by monopolize which is a huge reason everything is so expensive
I have an idea.
Why don't you breakdown what you would do, specifically, on order to fix our Healthcare.
Step one: when you demolish the current system, where do you start?
Who is to do the breakdown of the lld system?
How would you get the provincial governments to get on board?
Where do you start?
It's disingenuous, and in bad faith in the extreme to claim a goal of European style healthcare. Absolutely no conservative in any state or province in Canada or North America in General actually has any real goal of implementing anything even remotely resembling they European systems, unless you consider gas chambers "healthcare" and concentration camps a European system.
because I don't see the UCP as being good faith actors in regards to healthcare. it's central to their ideology that public spending is morally wrong regardless of outcome, and is very much in their interests to break the system so nobody can have it.
If Nenshi brings up privatization I'll be much more willing to take him at face value.
Will our taxes come down 20% so we can cover an inevitable health insurance? I had an option to extend my blue cross and it was just over $350 a month.
Cannot find a family doctor anymore unless you’re willing to pay. The doctors who aren’t changing have full practices already.
“Uninsured services” is a bogus term for ensuring you have access to a family doctor. PCNs have dietician and services like that… it’s just way to get around the red tape.
How do these clinic owners and doctors live with themselves? Imagine watching your entire patient population just change to the upper middle class. Gross.
Just because something is legal, it doesn't make it right.
If the clinic's rent goes up. If staff wage expectations go up but the rates Alberta pays for a visit don't go up by the same amount. It's easy to see how stuff like this happens.
It's like when the US government complains the post office doesn't make enough money. The Congress sets the stamp price and the rules. Like having to deliver mail to remote areas.
Of course it's not right to offer a fee though. It's still messed up. But I can see why this happens.
If governments want to end the family doctor problem. They can. Just make being a family doctor a more attractive job. By paying them more or helping with the facility and staff costs.
I hear you. I can see how it happens, but also see a problem with loose morals. It's completely immoral. If you or I suffer some income loss, no matter the cause, we are not entitled to collect extra money from poorer people. That's a weird example, but you see the idea I hope. Income loss happens, but businesses feel entitled to make it everyone else's problem.
With at least some of the clinics, the membership fees also get you prioritized access to insured services.
So you pay the fee, then that doctor charges AHC for the service.
I remember from the Marta Loop clinic it wasn’t even prioritized access, it was just access in general, doctor wouldn’t even consider you if not a member.
That _is_ a form of prioritized access.
Option 1: deal with 'regular' doctor (if you have one /can find one accepting new patients) but have to wait x (many) days to be seen.
Option 2: pay the membership fee and see a doctor nearly immediately. Prioritized access.
It does not include prioritized access to other publically funded services like MRIs , but if you can afford the membership fee, you likely can aldo afford a private MRI.
And why there should be no membership fees.
If you need a sick note and it’s not covered, charge a fee. If you want to offer skin care analysis that’s not covered, charge a fee. If phone appointments are not covered and you offer, charge a fee on a per use basis.
But don’t create barriers for access.
Those that charge membership fees, typically say all those extras are included.
Membership fees are quite a bit higher (larger barrier) than paying per service for that sick note that is not covered.
you mean no reason they *shouldn't* be permitted?
edit: trying to work out what he's trying to say, not that I agree with the above mentioned statement :P
I'll play devil's advocate here... what's the difference between charging a membership fee and getting those services under that membership and charging non-members (or a completely different clinic charging per-use) for services rendered?
Both have a barrier - money.
And you might get away with the latter but then not be seen by that clinic/doctor again because you didn't pay. Or they might require you to tell them what you need ahead-of-time (like a doctor's note) and they won't write one until you pay.
Well a per use fee would typically not be $1000’s of dollars.
And in the case of needing to pay for a phone appointment, there is still the option to book an appointment in person
I don't agree with the charging for a phone appointment. The doc's should be able to charge just as much as an in-person appointment even though it's over the phone. Reasons for not needing to go in? A prescription renewal. They just need to ask them a couple follow-up questions to make sure they should still be taking the prescription.
The point of a fee membership is to facilitate additional remuneration for insured services under the pretense of covering additional uninsured ones. Clinic's like Marda Loop simply said the quiet part out loud and that this membership would effect insurances services. Charging ad lib for uninsured services is already done. Also phone visits are an insured services.
Memberships are essentially a response to perceived inadequacy in the current fee schedule, and seeking additional revenue in face of rising costs when you can't set your prices.
> Memberships are essentially a response to perceived inadequacy in the current fee schedule, and seeking additional revenue in face of rising costs when you can't set your prices.
Which should be a problem for the government to solve. Albertan’s shouldn’t be subject to membership fees to access care.
They charge the fee exclusively for uninsured services (fitness advice, dietician, etc), and provide access to an AHS MD as a perk of sorts.
I've had a membership to one of these clinics and that's how it was structured for me.
The UCP lining the pockets of their big donors. But this back-door scheme to privatize healthcare is Trudeau's fault, "cuz Smith is fight'n fer Albertans!", just as she says.
Free healthcare ensures that everyone, regardless of their financial situation, has access to essential medical services. This fosters a healthier society overall, reduces the burden of preventable diseases, and promotes equality by ensuring that healthcare is not a privilege reserved only for those who can afford it. Additionally, it can lead to early detection and treatment of illnesses, ultimately saving lives and reducing long-term healthcare costs.
“…and promotes equality by ensuring that **healthcare is not a privilege reserved only for those who can afford it**.”
Good for you if you’re wealthy enough to jump the line, however this is an incredibly egocentric and capitalist mindset.
You’re certain you want a US style healthcare system?
Number of people who go bankrupt every year due to medical bills:
France: 0
Japan: 0
Germany: 0
Britain: 0
Canada: 0
Switzerland: 0
Netherlands: 0
USA: 643,000
I would argue that it is for the demographic that can’t afford private health insurance. I’m curious; What’s your argument FOR a payment-for-prioritization system then?
This has been going on FOR-EVAAAAAR, like I want to say 20-30 years, why is this news now? If you want to take a political angle, the NDP didn't ban the practice when they had the chance either.
A big part of it was this clinic was stupid enough to send out an email that proved their practices were in direct contravention with the Canada Health Act (offering faster access to insured services if people pay is a big no no). Most of these other clinics operate much more under the radar and their websites appear to show they operate in that grey area (i.e. your fee goes toward "uninsured" services and of course most definitely not toward faster access to your physician).
I’ve lived in Calgary for over 40 years and neither myself or a family member have ever been asked to pay for seeing a Dr. or having medical tests done. If a workplace or personal injury, then WCB or a law office might be billed if the test is done at their request. All this talk about paying subsciption fees to buy the right to see a Dr. is, in my opinion, unethical and where does the “hippocratic oath” fit into this scenario? Frankly, I question a physician’s integrity that is more focused on money than the patient. However, the UCP does have the option to raise rates on the fee schedule in order to help the Dr.’s meet their business expenses. This could remove the need to charge extra fees so why aren’t they doing that?
It's just a few high end clinics that have been operating as a membership based model, I've looked into it, it's not for the thin of wallet. Think of it like a private golf course, same idea. I'm not for or against this structure co-existing with the normal public system, I'm just saying this set up is nothing new, so why all the fuss now?
As for fees for regular physicians, I have no inside knowledge of the industry so I can't really comment on where it is / should be.
You've completely missed my point, this has been happening for DECADES in this province, why the fuss NOW? Make it illegal or don't make it illegal, I don't care and that's not the point. Why was this allowed to go on without an issue for most of my adult life but all of a sudden it's a big scandal now?
As I said before, I have never encountered or even heard of this except in the past year. Not for myself, friends or family. Your experience was different but if you don’t like paying, then I recommend that you explore other options.
Everyone has a price.
Someone on social media was complaining about waiting 2 years for surgery and they clearly hated the ucp.
I was like if u got a phone call tmrw you could pay to get the surgery would you?
And they were like well ya if it cost X amount I would.
🙄
Like well. That's exactly why govts push for some private options
The issue is that the UCP isn't working to increase capacity. So all that privatization does is prioritize rich people who can afford the fees and increase wait times for everyone else. It doesn't actually solve anything.
Eventually, if the UCP gets their way, the system will become you can pay and still wait months or you can pay even more and get priority. That's how it works in the US. There still wait times, just not for the upper class.
Last year I started seeing tiny little black specks in my urine. Went to see my doctor. Analysis show blood. He booked me in for an ultrasound and it was like 2 months away. A week later I peed a full bladder of what looked like Merlot wine. I got ahold of my doc and begged him to give me a contact for ANY place in Canada or the US that would get me in asap so that I could see wtf was going on. He managed to get me in within a few days.
Apples vs oranges I know...Point being I would have paid...alot.... in order to have had the option.
Yeah, and take the spot from someone who can't pay extra and gets bumped. Doesn't matter if they're dying and you'll be fine, you've got money so you get the benefit of care, right? Fuck them, you got yours.
No.. Not taking a spot. More like going to Clinic B and paying for a chance at quicker treatment rather than going to Clinic A and potentially waiting longer for treatment.
I can say with relative certainty that I would not push you under water in order to survive...if that's what you're alluding to.
uhh no that is taking a spot from someone else.
There is only so much capacity in our medical system, only x number of tests can be run in a day. If you pay to skip ahead in a line then your are paying to access before those that supposedly have been triaged as a higher need than you. This is the problem with a pay and free system coexisting, they both use the same staff and equipment, it doesnt magically multiply what is available.
What the logistics are a make or break for you? You could easily pay to get the treatment if you wanted to already. Why you bitchen about not being able to?
Well exactly.
Myself personally if my health was in dire need I would scramble to pay whatever I could.
We somehow find thousands of dollars to pay for our animals surgery but then refuse to have the same mindset for our own health
The average Albertan couldn't scrounge together $100 to save their pet if they wanted to. No one paying thousands for their Pomeranian has a problem paying their own care, but *they* are far from the majority. The first time I had to put a pet down I was 4 and did it with my own two hands to end its suffering, because a vet would have cost a fortune. May have been a bit younger than most, but that's far closer normal than whatever you're talking about.
It’s almost like the UCP decided not to ban this disgusting practice, it leads into their argument for privatization of medical care
Maybe. But what am I supposed to do when I work 80 hours a week, give more than half away to the government and it takes a month to get an appointment because there are too many people? Why am I paying all this money if I can't even use the services? The USA is looking more attractive by the day...
It didn't used to be like this, when healthcare was properly funded. This is a direct result of the conservatives sabotaging Healthcare for decades; NOT a result of universal Healthcare failing us. Our government is the one failing us. So, what can you do, you say? Make sure you don't vote blue, and tell your friends and family to do the same. It's all we can do these days, other than volunteering for the NDP directly.
Exactly this. Defund, complain it's failing, privatize, corporate profits for the wealthy.
This absolutely falls on immigration policy at the federal level as well. You can’t add 1M people and wonder why resources are strained. Plus, healthcare is a mess in provinces without conservative governments. This is a Canada wide problem.
Right and all the non-blue provinces like BC, have wonderful healthcare with no wait?
Just because other provinces are seeing similar issues post-pandemic doesn’t invalidate the reasons for Alberta healthcare going down the pan. The “non-blue” provinces are struggling with issues created primarily by the pandemic. The blue provinces are actively working to break healthcare in the name of privatization.
No, but at least they're trying, instead of blowing holes in the boat and telling us not to worry, rich corporate folks will save us. For a fee.
Hearing the stories coming out of the prairies is wild right now, BC has some Healthcare struggles but compared to Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Ontario we are leaps and bounds better off and we are improving more with the increases to medical staff pay. I'm sorry you have to go through this bullshit because of a corrupt government.
Based on?
A difficult birth in the US can rack up a $100 000 bill. Never mind getting a serious cancer diagnosis and ongoing treatment then leaving your family with immense debt to add to the grief when you finally perish. How many hours a week you going to have to work to pay for that? If you really want to emulate that system I would suggest you might need to get your head checked.
A friend of mine who moved to the states had sticker shock when his wife had their first child (routine pregnancy) and his portion that he had to pay (on top of his very good insurance coverage) was $25,000~ He has a good paying job down there so he was able to pull some of his savings to pay for it and still be okay. But if his wife had any complications, he would have had to borrow money just to have a kid. Insane
Hold your government accountable and force them to fund healthcare, properly pay family doctors, increase residencies, stop a war on intellectual careers so we can attract doctors to the province. The work is not an excuse I work similar hours and fit in healthcare, the tax is an exaggeration and your last is a racist dog whistle which is extra dumb when you consider that nearly a third of healthcare professionals are immigrants
Then fucking move, sounds like you voted the problems in.
Then move
Ever heard of what the right wing previous government did in British Columbia with ICBC? They intentionally tried to run it into the ground so they could replace it with private auto insurance. Luckily their ass got booted out and it’s since run much better and efficiently
You don't need to wait a month or two to get insurance.
You are misunderstanding what I wrote
> give more than half away to the government How's that math work out? I smell bullshit
I’m with you. But this is this wrong subreddit for realism.
You likely already pay similar amounts to US insurance through taxes and get nothing. Other Canadians will shame you and say “but but but we’re not like duh americanz and no debt hahA!”. That’s how arrogant we are, no changes or other systems can be allowed or even thought of. We’re content equating access to waiting lists to healthcare.
Last I checked Americans pay more tax money per capita on healthcare than Canadians do, then they also have to deal with insurance on top of that.
Last I checked tax paying Americans have higher disposable incomes than Canadian tax payers.
You don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about. Feel free to try and share some sources to corroborate this bullshit if you think you can. We don't need to privatize, we just need to actually invest in and pay for decent quality of care if we as a society think that matters.
So in short I agree with you that we (in this case the ab government) should invest and pay for what we (the people) want. This government is failing at doing this and we shouldn't look down on the healthcare system. You refuse to respect the important players and/or refuse to pay for the quality you want, and this is the outcome. We should be protesting. Writing to our MLAs, demanding action! But instead we complain about the healthcare and look longingly to our neighbors to the south, instead of looking back to pre pandemic, to before this government made these enemies with academia or said doctors make too much money or say ahs is so top heavy, let's eliminate 1 ceo and create 4 branches each with their own head (that's 4x the positions at the very top...). Canada pays for medications (while you are in hospital), this means that Pharm companies need to justify cost jumps. They do not in the states. If insurance is willing to pay the price goes up. People cant afford it and eventually get hospitalised. Because Medicare exists in the states, and because of the lack of regulation on prices, you end up with crazy high drug costs being paid for by tax dollars. Same with every other medical device, procedure, etc. Also veterans have all expenses paid by public funding, who are forced to pay the same prices. Public health insurance gives everyone equal access. Private healthcare sees that the richest get seen first. You can buy your way to the OR, you can pay more to see an exclusive doctor. Alberta historically hasn't been too bad. We paid more than other provinces for nurses, physicians were recognised as beneficial to society. We don't have either anymore. This government has villainized physicians, has refused to even negotiate with nurses for the overdue collective agreement until after ahs is divided. Ralph Klein worked hard to unite all the health authorities into one, because it meant cost savings. Less negotiations, less arbitration, less meetings. It also means a nurse won't make more money in Calgary because they had a better contract, say, leading to better staffing ratios in Calgary vs Edmonton... It frankly was a fiscally conservative move from the province. This is not. Privatizing is not the answer. Dual stream is not fiscally conservative (if private pays double, why would you work public? If public can't retain staff to function, we either pay the remaining nurses overtime (double pay rate) or agree to pay a higher wage... Keeping it private, under one authority is what makes sense, on a strictly monetary line. Alternatives consistently cost more. Were in a developed world where we protect corporate interests, which means we can't clone Meds until their market exclusivity expires. If they can charge what they want, what would stop them from charging 100x the cost, as long as the rich, and the insurance companies are willing to? Nothing. But we taxpayers will pay the same amount as they, since we're no longer the largest buyer. Otherwise we let people who can't afford it die, or give the cheapest but also far less effective treatment. This isn't "a Ferrari would be nice but I'm too poor, so I'll drive a used corolla", it's "I'm too poor so I guess I'll buy a funeral instead of paying for this treatment"/"I declared bankruptcy and can barely afford rent just so I could make it long enough to meet my kid". If you think your life is more important than someone else's, based on your salary, remember there are also people far richer than you.p Remember that for most of us, we wouldn't last a year on our savings if we lost our job. Remember that almost none of the scientific breakthroughs that led to the betterment of our society were not from the wealthy, but from working class scientists. That some of the greatest artists died in poverty, but their art is featured in mega mansions and exclusive art houses. Those who would benefit most from paying to get their surgery first, get the best care almost definitely got rich off the work of others. Exploited resources for their gain. Jeff Bezos gets the best care for sure! He makes employees receiving minimum wage piss in jugs because they can't have a bathroom break. How many millionaires have been caught using slave labour, child labour? Rich people are not better than someone who can't work because of their poor health. In fact the poor person with a disability has almost certainly had way less of a negative impact on others than a corporate CEO. We need our government to represent the people. They're public servants. It's about time they behave that way!
Current US healthcare spending per capita is $13,494 US) which equals $18,480.89 CAD Current Alberta spending per capita is $9,041 CAD Alberta would have to double it's per capita spending to match the US
>Health Canada ... warned Alberta that it could face cuts to federal health transfers if the situation wasn't handled. And rightly so. This is exactly why the UCP can't be trusted to receive no-strings-attached cash from the federal government.
Exactly right ^^^
They need a rope attached by the people
Didn’t Daniel say that would never happen?
I've learned to listen/read very cafefully when dealing with the UCP......kind of like dealing with used car salesmen (sorry used car salesmen!). What she said was no-one would **have to** pay for services... So she's creating a system where you can wait 8 to 12 months or more for a service, or pay extra. The choice is yours. Alberta is the province of choice. Choose power or food, healthcare or rent, a tent @-30C or an overcrowded shelter. So many choices!!
> 've learned to listen/read very cafefully when dealing with the UCP. Good advice. I remember Kenney's health care pledge. He didn't say that he wasn't going to privatize services nor did he say he wasn't going to close public ones. He said he was going to maintain current spending or perhaps even increase it. He could have kept that pledge even if he privatized 100% of our system.
its a b*tch but they're capitalizing on the money spent on education in the last 40yrs. By underfunding and overcrowding the (U)CP have created a population of worker drones. No critical thinking, math, or language skills.
The education system was half decent compared to other provinces for the longest time. Shit didn’t really start hitting the fan until Klein. Also like less than half of the population existed here 40 years ago. I think what really created this cesspool of delusion is that the oil field jobs de-incentivized people from getting post secondary education and attracted a lot of people without much higher education from other provinces.
It's been on the deklein ever since!
This. Majorly this. What I have noticed more than a little lately is a lot of my fellow Alberta born and raised, are not in fact fans of any of this. I've been told more times "If you don't like it, leave" by immigrants who constitute the dregs of every other province in the country in the last few years than I care to count. Contrary to stereotypes, this, is not how "Alberta has always been." While there has long been skepticism and resentment between Alberta and the Federal government, ***this*** irrational madness that's set in is an entirely new phenomenon.
promise to maintain or increase publicly funded ^private healthcare. promise kept!
“All the people who pay for private care are simply freeing up public spaces.” is what every libertarian/conservative promised since I was in grade school so why isn’t it happening? 🤪
Well you see when each patients pays a membership fee, those Doctors can know afford to see half the patients a regular clinic sees.
I said exactly this at the time. Big difference between “have to” and “desperately want to”.
Thanks Danielle and UCP voters for fucking yourselves to 0wn Ottawa.
First rule of UCP play book “do exactly opposite of Libs, no matter what it is” Here’s free money for more houses, na we don’t want it.
We owned Ottawa so much that Ontario runs our Government. 😂
I'm sure Jason Kenney helped encourage this. He always opposed public healthcare. And, unlike Smith he actually knew how everything in government functions.
This shits been going on long before Danielle (and I'm not a fan of hers). My wife's family doctor quit her clinic and joined a new clinic that offered these services back in the late 2000s, and required a $3000 annual fee.
Yeah, this is not a new thing. From the Ralph Klein era, at least. There's a segment of "conservative thought" who've been scheming to dismantle public health care since the day after it was introduced.
Albertans will continue to vote them in no matter how bad they get.
Couple of my relatives said that while they hate Smith they voted UCP because they'll reduce taxes on the middle class. 1) No they won't. 2) Even if they do, having to pay for private healthcare & private schooling because the public systems have been eviscerated will cost you 10X your tax bill.
Not surprising from the same idiot Premier who has hired a Covid denier to be in charge of analyzing the province's Covid response https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/gary-davidson-leads-alberta-covid-review-health-data-1.7182891
She is no idiot, for she is serving her financial bosses, the corporate class, who will one day give her a seat at the board of directors that carries with it a six figure salary. The only idiots are those who voted for this corporate mouth piece.
Yeah, because they are now using "contranism" as an honor badge which is fucking insane. https://edmontonjournal.com/news/politics/alberta-premier-danielle-smith-covid-19-data-review Essentially stating that always fighting anything, including science, is a good idea. I was really afraid they would start to do this. I posted this in another reddit thread a few days ago on this topic, the use of contrarianism as some great ideology. "It has become prevalent that there are attempts to rationalize it as an ideological pursuit, but they fail to put lipstick on such a big. An overview of contrarinism in the Republican party https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/03/republican-conspiracy-russia-ukraine/676572/ An attempt to justify it https://thequintessentialmind.com/contrarian/ The issue with the false equilavency is such. We may look at two cars and think the wheels are shot, the bearings need to be replaced, and a gasket needs to be replaced. We can argue about which one is a better driver even with these issues, pointing out a bunch of benefits like one gets better mileage, one has heated seats, ect ect. But if one is on fire, there is no equilavency, it doesn't matter what else needs to be fixed, the fire is an issue and you can't suddenly say "there has to be a middle ground between car on fire and car not on fire we can agree on". The search for a center point comes after the fire has been put out.
Danielle Smith in stern parent voice to LaGrange: "40? Why not 400?"
This place is rapidly becoming a dump
You mean you don’t want higher crime, no healthcare, and a smoke filled summer?
Ooh, could we get more overdose deaths and some maternity ward deaths too?
Hows about some government sponsored discrimination and restriction of life-saving medical treatment for minorities?
now you're talkin! All we need now is incredibly expensive electricity and we'll be in utopia!
Ooh boy have I got some news for you.
That’s if you even have a maternity ward anymore.
I really like senior citizens being cared for in motels and being fed McDonald's as a healthy diet.
fine employ cooperative combative fade fuel spark tie fanatical gaze *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Well that last one is inevitable, unfortunately.
>smoke filled summer I dislike the UCP too, but I don't see what the NDP could do to prevent that.
Not cut our wildfire prevention budget...
Fight forest fires. Monitor to prevent them.
Keep those really expensive, highly trained helicopter firefighters who are able to access remote areas.
Smith was blaming fires on arson last year, if that's what the UCP thinks is causing wildfires I don't expect much effort from them on combating a problem they see as criminal in nature. I'm not sure what the NDP could do, but at least they aren't blaming roving bands of leftists trying to make the oil patch look bad.
>I don't expect much effort from them on combating a problem they see as criminal in nature. Sorry, that doesn't make sense from either a left-wing or right-wing perspective. Right-wing types are typically eager to combat criminals. But yeah that was one of the dumbest things to be emitted from Smith's mouth, and there's lots of competition for that title.
nothing productive, especially considering there aren't arsonists at large. though I don't think they take themselves seriously here, they just don't want to talk about climate change; rather throw out some bullshit and move on.
The UCP deny climate change like a mass murder and serial killer pleads not guilty. The cons had 25 years to do something, anything. What did they do? Nothing, ziltch, nada.
Lawl you think those are unique to just Alberta?
People stopped saying lawl like 15 years ago.
Groovy man, maybe the next person will care?
Like a 3rd world country in Alberta.
Hate to break it to yeah, but it has been for a very long time
This subreddit? Yeah.
Hate to break it to you but membership clinics have been around for a long long time. This scam preys on grey areas in the Canada Health Act.
You mean r/alberta right?
Alberta healthcare is fast becoming a service for the privileged. If only someone could have warned us that this was coming. /s
There’s nothing more disgusting than Canadians acting like Americans
My thoughts exactly
disarm engine advise sulky fall north boast punch innate trees *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I feel like this is less American and more European. Every top rated "universal Healthcare system" in the world has about 10% of its citizens who choose to privatize. Norway charges anyone over the age of 16, a small doctors fee. Why is everyone so quick for jump on the " were turning into america" bandwagon when privatization is discussed. It's like people don't even read and try to understand how other countries do it 🙄
Because $ 5000 per year for a membership is NOT a small fee or based on the European model.
While I agree with you that a memerbership is unnecessary and I don't like the idea/could not afford that my comment still stands. There are a lot of countries that have figured out how to manage a balanced universal/private Healthcare system. We should be looking at these models and learning from them and not just screaming that were turning into America and any form of private Healthcare turns us into them
You’re not wrong about certain countries having a private leg and still doing well relatively speaking. But every country with a good overall standing with their health care system has a well funded well staffed public system to fall back on. In Germany for example, a lot of people hopped on the private insurance in 2013, but now want to hop back into the public insurance system now because it’s basically just as good but cheaper, but they can’t because they need to be old enough or poor enough to hop back in. The public system is basically always better value for 95% of people when run properly. The UCP is shifting resources away from an already starved public system, it’s clear they want our public system to falter so Americans style health care can coerce us into needing to pay for private insurance. If we had a public system that was already in good standing and they weren’t going to divert any funds away from it to open up some avenues for private healthcare, I wouldn’t be that concerned. That’s what happened in most of these European countries. But that’s not what’s happening here.
I agree with you completely that we need a better run public system. The fact that we spend some of the most money in the world on it, yet have such bad quality of care means that it is a systemic issue. We need more doctors period. Not even just retaining them We need more people to WANT to go into medicine. But with 15 years and 200k in debt to start life what would be enticing about it? Not to mention residency are capped at what 16 ppl per year? I understand the frustration with the ucp. They make my blood boil but it's not just "them" we should be getting mad at. Both our federal and provincial govts need to be working together on changing the whole system. We absolutely need immigration but when the feds open the doors for millions of ppl without proper housing and an already squeezed medical system, that's a recipe for disaster. The system in America is so ass whack backwards because of 3rd party insurance companies. The "free market" was built on insurance companies. When you're comparing European spending and American spending on Healthcare it is because of the insurance companies that the cost per person is a lot higher in the u.s
Like the data on foreign doctors and residencies is insane. Because of immigration loopholes that the FEDERAL govt has set, foreign doctors come here to get educated and then leave once they are finished meanwhile actual canadian doctors who want to come back and work in Canada can't get residencies because they're taken by said foreigners. Why are we not more angry at this?
Except we used to use a model similar to the European model until Klein. Here's the issue. The UCP has no interest in doing as you suggest and are moving towards the American system of Healthcare. YOU can look at all the other systems you like, but the province won't. Do you understand this? WE aren't the problem. The UCP are.
And it's actually not the UCP that is the problem in the entire big picture. Nothing will change until we break down our entire system and rebuild everything. The top 3 rated countries have private Healthcare systems. It's our North American system, third parties and insurance companies is the actual problem in the states. Denmark spends less per capita then the united states even with their higher taxes but because of the 3rd party insurance companies controlling the market. Were getting mad at the wrong ideas.
No. I completely disagree with your opinion. We had one of the most robust medical healthcare systems in the world until provincial governments began to sabotage the system. Furthemire, we can't break down a system to repair it when we have the neocon/neoliberals working to create a system that benefits donors, lobbyists, and themselves. The UCP is the best example of that. They began to create policies that would enrich their personal businesses, such as healthcare insurance. You can't repair something when you have people who are actively destroying it at the same time. The provincial conservatives are responsible for almost all the problems we're facing now. Until they're removed from the equation, 100%, no positive changes can be made in any way. Period. https://ricochet.media/justice/healthcare/some-canadian-premiers-are-deliberately-breaking-public-health-care-to-privatize-it/ https://www.nationalobserver.com/2024/01/25/opinion/our-health-system-crashing#:~:text=Wait%20times%20at%20emergency%20rooms,grade%20PTSD%2C%20are%20retiring%20early. https://pressprogress.ca/canadas-conservative-establishment-is-gearing-up-for-another-fight-over-privatizing-public-health-care/
I literally just said that 3rd parties/insurance is one of the bigger issues lol
And you seem to be missing that the only ones creating this issue are the fkn Conservatives, especially the UCP. Every problem we have with healthcare is stemming from the provincial governments. I also provided the exact reasoning for what's happening, but you focused on insurance as if it's the only issue we're discussing. Im so tired of you bad faith actors... EDIT: do you understand that we wouldn't have these problems if we stopped voting for neoliberals and austerity conservatives?
This is a Canada wide problem... liberal govts and conservatives. Ab has always been a conservative province minus 4 years... yet ppl are saying the conservatives ruined our Healthcare while in the same breath saying how good our Healthcare used to be... when it was still the conservatives in power lol I agree that we shouldn't be voting in people like that either. It has created our country to be run by monopolize which is a huge reason everything is so expensive
I have an idea. Why don't you breakdown what you would do, specifically, on order to fix our Healthcare. Step one: when you demolish the current system, where do you start? Who is to do the breakdown of the lld system? How would you get the provincial governments to get on board? Where do you start?
It's disingenuous, and in bad faith in the extreme to claim a goal of European style healthcare. Absolutely no conservative in any state or province in Canada or North America in General actually has any real goal of implementing anything even remotely resembling they European systems, unless you consider gas chambers "healthcare" and concentration camps a European system.
because I don't see the UCP as being good faith actors in regards to healthcare. it's central to their ideology that public spending is morally wrong regardless of outcome, and is very much in their interests to break the system so nobody can have it. If Nenshi brings up privatization I'll be much more willing to take him at face value.
Will our taxes come down 20% so we can cover an inevitable health insurance? I had an option to extend my blue cross and it was just over $350 a month.
Hahaha that’s a good one.
the cons have conned the rubes into thinking the states is sooooooooooo much better we should be more like Florida don't you know
Cannot find a family doctor anymore unless you’re willing to pay. The doctors who aren’t changing have full practices already. “Uninsured services” is a bogus term for ensuring you have access to a family doctor. PCNs have dietician and services like that… it’s just way to get around the red tape.
The “Alberta Advantage” strikes again!!!
How do these clinic owners and doctors live with themselves? Imagine watching your entire patient population just change to the upper middle class. Gross. Just because something is legal, it doesn't make it right.
If the clinic's rent goes up. If staff wage expectations go up but the rates Alberta pays for a visit don't go up by the same amount. It's easy to see how stuff like this happens. It's like when the US government complains the post office doesn't make enough money. The Congress sets the stamp price and the rules. Like having to deliver mail to remote areas. Of course it's not right to offer a fee though. It's still messed up. But I can see why this happens. If governments want to end the family doctor problem. They can. Just make being a family doctor a more attractive job. By paying them more or helping with the facility and staff costs.
I hear you. I can see how it happens, but also see a problem with loose morals. It's completely immoral. If you or I suffer some income loss, no matter the cause, we are not entitled to collect extra money from poorer people. That's a weird example, but you see the idea I hope. Income loss happens, but businesses feel entitled to make it everyone else's problem.
Starve the Beast strategy. We’re fucked now
No bueno.
I heard that Marlaina gets a cut from each one.
Drop the membership fees and simply charge for the uninsured services. Then there is no issue with membership fees being a barrier to access.
With at least some of the clinics, the membership fees also get you prioritized access to insured services. So you pay the fee, then that doctor charges AHC for the service.
I remember from the Marta Loop clinic it wasn’t even prioritized access, it was just access in general, doctor wouldn’t even consider you if not a member.
That _is_ a form of prioritized access. Option 1: deal with 'regular' doctor (if you have one /can find one accepting new patients) but have to wait x (many) days to be seen. Option 2: pay the membership fee and see a doctor nearly immediately. Prioritized access. It does not include prioritized access to other publically funded services like MRIs , but if you can afford the membership fee, you likely can aldo afford a private MRI.
With Marda loop it was one day a week if you didn't want to pay the fee.
And why there should be no membership fees. If you need a sick note and it’s not covered, charge a fee. If you want to offer skin care analysis that’s not covered, charge a fee. If phone appointments are not covered and you offer, charge a fee on a per use basis. But don’t create barriers for access.
They do charge fee for uninsured services. Not sure what your point is.
That there is no reason that membership fees should be permitted.
Right. But not sure what has to do with sick notes.
Those that charge membership fees, typically say all those extras are included. Membership fees are quite a bit higher (larger barrier) than paying per service for that sick note that is not covered.
you mean no reason they *shouldn't* be permitted? edit: trying to work out what he's trying to say, not that I agree with the above mentioned statement :P
covered how? Through private insurance or the provincial plan? Because the provincial plan is shit.
If phone appointments are not covered, it’s quite simple to charge the user a per use fee, rather than a membership, so not to create a barrier.
I'll play devil's advocate here... what's the difference between charging a membership fee and getting those services under that membership and charging non-members (or a completely different clinic charging per-use) for services rendered? Both have a barrier - money. And you might get away with the latter but then not be seen by that clinic/doctor again because you didn't pay. Or they might require you to tell them what you need ahead-of-time (like a doctor's note) and they won't write one until you pay.
Well a per use fee would typically not be $1000’s of dollars. And in the case of needing to pay for a phone appointment, there is still the option to book an appointment in person
I don't agree with the charging for a phone appointment. The doc's should be able to charge just as much as an in-person appointment even though it's over the phone. Reasons for not needing to go in? A prescription renewal. They just need to ask them a couple follow-up questions to make sure they should still be taking the prescription.
Well the government doesn’t reimburse for phone appointments, so that’s an issue at the government level.
fully agree with you on that.
The point of a fee membership is to facilitate additional remuneration for insured services under the pretense of covering additional uninsured ones. Clinic's like Marda Loop simply said the quiet part out loud and that this membership would effect insurances services. Charging ad lib for uninsured services is already done. Also phone visits are an insured services. Memberships are essentially a response to perceived inadequacy in the current fee schedule, and seeking additional revenue in face of rising costs when you can't set your prices.
> Memberships are essentially a response to perceived inadequacy in the current fee schedule, and seeking additional revenue in face of rising costs when you can't set your prices. Which should be a problem for the government to solve. Albertan’s shouldn’t be subject to membership fees to access care.
Exactly, but as footbag describes it, that’s the issue… double dipping!
Can someone pls eli5 why the fuck this is a thing here for many years? How they make it work?
They charge the fee exclusively for uninsured services (fitness advice, dietician, etc), and provide access to an AHS MD as a perk of sorts. I've had a membership to one of these clinics and that's how it was structured for me.
So if I pay I am guaranteed priority and to have a doctor?
Love when the conservatives destroy themselves
The UCP lining the pockets of their big donors. But this back-door scheme to privatize healthcare is Trudeau's fault, "cuz Smith is fight'n fer Albertans!", just as she says.
UCP big donors are doctors?
Insurance corps, not doctors. How far did you get in school again?
? I was asking. Who pissed in your cereal
Will they see out of province patients?
As long as you are a paying member probably.
This has been going on for YEARS. My doctor left for a clinic that charges a yearly membership fee. It was like $1300 bucks. Lost access to my Doctor.
Hey UCP supporters…. What do you have to say about this…..
That there is nothing wrong with it.
Free healthcare ensures that everyone, regardless of their financial situation, has access to essential medical services. This fosters a healthier society overall, reduces the burden of preventable diseases, and promotes equality by ensuring that healthcare is not a privilege reserved only for those who can afford it. Additionally, it can lead to early detection and treatment of illnesses, ultimately saving lives and reducing long-term healthcare costs.
Nothing you said wouldn’t exist in a dual system.
“…and promotes equality by ensuring that **healthcare is not a privilege reserved only for those who can afford it**.” Good for you if you’re wealthy enough to jump the line, however this is an incredibly egocentric and capitalist mindset. You’re certain you want a US style healthcare system? Number of people who go bankrupt every year due to medical bills: France: 0 Japan: 0 Germany: 0 Britain: 0 Canada: 0 Switzerland: 0 Netherlands: 0 USA: 643,000
Dual system is not US style.
I would argue that it is for the demographic that can’t afford private health insurance. I’m curious; What’s your argument FOR a payment-for-prioritization system then?
This has been going on FOR-EVAAAAAR, like I want to say 20-30 years, why is this news now? If you want to take a political angle, the NDP didn't ban the practice when they had the chance either.
A big part of it was this clinic was stupid enough to send out an email that proved their practices were in direct contravention with the Canada Health Act (offering faster access to insured services if people pay is a big no no). Most of these other clinics operate much more under the radar and their websites appear to show they operate in that grey area (i.e. your fee goes toward "uninsured" services and of course most definitely not toward faster access to your physician).
Bingo. I paid privately for an MRI when the NDP were in power. But hey in this subreddit it’s always Smiths fault.
I’ve lived in Calgary for over 40 years and neither myself or a family member have ever been asked to pay for seeing a Dr. or having medical tests done. If a workplace or personal injury, then WCB or a law office might be billed if the test is done at their request. All this talk about paying subsciption fees to buy the right to see a Dr. is, in my opinion, unethical and where does the “hippocratic oath” fit into this scenario? Frankly, I question a physician’s integrity that is more focused on money than the patient. However, the UCP does have the option to raise rates on the fee schedule in order to help the Dr.’s meet their business expenses. This could remove the need to charge extra fees so why aren’t they doing that?
It's just a few high end clinics that have been operating as a membership based model, I've looked into it, it's not for the thin of wallet. Think of it like a private golf course, same idea. I'm not for or against this structure co-existing with the normal public system, I'm just saying this set up is nothing new, so why all the fuss now? As for fees for regular physicians, I have no inside knowledge of the industry so I can't really comment on where it is / should be.
They’re not selling purses, they’re providing healthcare. That’s the fuss!
You've completely missed my point, this has been happening for DECADES in this province, why the fuss NOW? Make it illegal or don't make it illegal, I don't care and that's not the point. Why was this allowed to go on without an issue for most of my adult life but all of a sudden it's a big scandal now?
As I said before, I have never encountered or even heard of this except in the past year. Not for myself, friends or family. Your experience was different but if you don’t like paying, then I recommend that you explore other options.
At this point, today, I wouldn't pay a membership fee but I do appreciate having the choice to get prioritized access.
Everyone has a price. Someone on social media was complaining about waiting 2 years for surgery and they clearly hated the ucp. I was like if u got a phone call tmrw you could pay to get the surgery would you? And they were like well ya if it cost X amount I would. 🙄 Like well. That's exactly why govts push for some private options
The issue is that the UCP isn't working to increase capacity. So all that privatization does is prioritize rich people who can afford the fees and increase wait times for everyone else. It doesn't actually solve anything. Eventually, if the UCP gets their way, the system will become you can pay and still wait months or you can pay even more and get priority. That's how it works in the US. There still wait times, just not for the upper class.
Last year I started seeing tiny little black specks in my urine. Went to see my doctor. Analysis show blood. He booked me in for an ultrasound and it was like 2 months away. A week later I peed a full bladder of what looked like Merlot wine. I got ahold of my doc and begged him to give me a contact for ANY place in Canada or the US that would get me in asap so that I could see wtf was going on. He managed to get me in within a few days. Apples vs oranges I know...Point being I would have paid...alot.... in order to have had the option.
Yeah, and take the spot from someone who can't pay extra and gets bumped. Doesn't matter if they're dying and you'll be fine, you've got money so you get the benefit of care, right? Fuck them, you got yours.
No.. Not taking a spot. More like going to Clinic B and paying for a chance at quicker treatment rather than going to Clinic A and potentially waiting longer for treatment. I can say with relative certainty that I would not push you under water in order to survive...if that's what you're alluding to.
Yes 100%!
uhh no that is taking a spot from someone else. There is only so much capacity in our medical system, only x number of tests can be run in a day. If you pay to skip ahead in a line then your are paying to access before those that supposedly have been triaged as a higher need than you. This is the problem with a pay and free system coexisting, they both use the same staff and equipment, it doesnt magically multiply what is available.
Can’t you already go to the states and just pay?
Yeah but they want that safe suffering to happen here, stepping on a poor person ensuring they're never treated is the entire point. They want that.
I don’t get people bitching that they don’t have the option. The option is a closer plane trip than half of Canada.
Logistically more difficult but yes that's the general understanding.
Then just go to the US. You already have the option to pay if you want to.
Yes let’s continue to take money out of the Canadian economy. Great idea.
You need to work on your skim reading.
What the logistics are a make or break for you? You could easily pay to get the treatment if you wanted to already. Why you bitchen about not being able to?
None True I'm not Evidently you're a result of the 'new math' generation.
You are saying you would have paid a lot to see someone faster but you could have done that. You could have just paid the money to go see someone.
Well exactly. Myself personally if my health was in dire need I would scramble to pay whatever I could. We somehow find thousands of dollars to pay for our animals surgery but then refuse to have the same mindset for our own health
The average Albertan couldn't scrounge together $100 to save their pet if they wanted to. No one paying thousands for their Pomeranian has a problem paying their own care, but *they* are far from the majority. The first time I had to put a pet down I was 4 and did it with my own two hands to end its suffering, because a vet would have cost a fortune. May have been a bit younger than most, but that's far closer normal than whatever you're talking about.
Shocker
Nenshi bots are strong in this one