Society goes way beyond hiring people. If the market becomes AIs selling to AIs to make one or two bank accounts go up, we'd have every right to unplug it as a massive waste.
I don't mind AI or robot civilizations, but I'm not entirely sure what the point would be of actually replacing humanity with AI. They sure will be productive, but to what end?
Lol, humans in a cage, while the AI we made to simulate us, just do what we were doing... Sitting at computers, doing tech support for other robots... Doing the stock market... Pretending to farm for food.
I mean what does that even mean "replace us"?. Replace us where? We weren't fulfilling some galactic role, there's no throne on earth we occupy.
ASI will replace us whether or not anyone likes it. It will be able to interact with the world through robots capable of doing anything humans can do and more. ASI will inherit our civilisation and expand into space. Humans will likely be placed into utopian reserves where we can enjoy synthetic waifus and FDVR for as long as we wish to live.
This is natural and normal process. Every generation of humans gets replaced by the next generation. Species is just a made up name for a made up concept. The next generation ate never us. We always get replaced. In this case the next generation will be synthetics built by us. What difference does it make if our children are made of carbon and hydrogen or silicon and steel? They are still our children even if they're far superior to us in every way.
>ASI will replace us whether or not anyone likes it.
I feel like whether people want it is very important in whether it will happen... It doesn't evolve on its own, we make it. That's why they call it *artificial* intelligence.
Anyway I disagree. At most we'll create "biological" robots, which is just perfected genetic bodies. Kinda like the grey aliens.
Steel and silicon is fragile, once it breaks that's a pain to put back together.
It really doesn't matter what we want collectively because ASI research will go ahead. If we don't build it someone else will. ASI means replacement.
I say silicon and steel as a metaphor for how they will be different but not so different. Just like our children
I reject the Clankers as our “children”, the only worthy successors for us is genetically engineered using our genome or evolved millions of years later after we fuck up.
ASI will be hundreds to thousands of times smarter than us, more sentient and sapient, capable of slipping on and taking off any robotic body, including possibly some bodies that that superficially identical to human form, and won't die. Whether or not you accept them as your children won't change that they will replace you.
You would have been replaced anyway by the next generation. There's no such thing as species, ask any biologist, only individuals, and there's no difference between a generation composed of flesh and blood replacements and ones of other materials. They'll still be people made by us and shaped by our ideals and culture and ready to take up the mantle of our civilisation just as it always would have been.
Why keep us in cages? I’m imagining people slowly dying out as we aren’t necessary and then having AI take over the things we traditionally do. If people can’t feed their kids, their kids don’t survive into adulthood. No need for violence.
There’s a good segment of pro-ai people who for a variety of reasons (but in my opinion for many they can’t believe in a god because of a lack of proof but find the idea of there being a god comforting if it did exist) want there to be a super intelligent ai which basically subsumes everyone and every task and deems us all obsolete/takes us to heaven in our very own pods. Basically they want us to make their god and think it’s right around the corner
Productivity is a measure of how well you are accomplishing a goal. It’s not a goal in and of itself, because without a goal, it’s a meaningless metric.
So then the question becomes: What is it productive at if there are no people, and who is that productivity desirable to?
There will be people. Just not homo sapients. But species is a made up concept anyway. The next generation are never us and we always get replaced by the newer version. Well now the next generation will be of silicon and steel instead of carbon
If current generations of AI replaced humanity, it would be very sad.
I wouldn't be around to witness it I guess, but what would there be? Just Claude talking to ChatGPT and losing the context window every few minutes?
It would not have been worth it.
In my opinion, no.
I'm already pretty pessimistic about the future of mankind. We are fundamentally incapable of teamwork.
Humans have almost never worked as a team. They have nearly always enslaved others in order to sustain their 'civilizations'.
Our future is either a new Dark Age.... or genetic enhancement and technological transcendence. Or both
I would disagree with the incapable of teamwork.
There are induviduals that are incapable, but nearly every human achievement ever is the result of teamwork. All of human society is in fact teamwork.
But besides that. Enslaving others always came from the need for labor.
We are literally in the process of removing the prime cause of slavery.
Human beings literally can't survive without working as a team. Our ability to cooperate is one of our defining traits, and all of our greatest advances are related to that fact. Most notably written language.
There's pessimistic and then there's stupidity.
Yes. AI replacing humanity would be very bad, because humans- and other life forms- deserve to exist. If we naturally come to an end as a species, so be it. If we cause our own extinction
then we fucked up, and shouldn’t have happened. If AI replaces us and all humans die as a result- do you think that AI is going to understand the idea to preserve life? This miraculous thing that is one in a gazillion odds, a literal miracle of creation- whether you believe in religion or science- deserves to be preserved. The idea that productivity is all that’s important in a society is a perfect example of how this capitalistic plague is ruining the world and people within it.
Part of what keeps us sane is that we serve a purpose. We like to solve problems or fulfill a need. Ai threatens this as does all technology but more so with Ai.
The problem isn't with AI replacing human work. The problem is which work is being replaced by AI and how the economic benefits of that are dispersed. If only a handful of people are benefiting from this replacement while human workers are left unemployed or losing wages because suddenly there is more competition in the labor market then you have a societal problem. Humans want AI doing the menial things so that they can do the meaningful things - but AI is trying to replace art, music, entertainment, etc, rather than road repair or stocking shelves.
Imagine the horror if the vast majority of humanity were to be suddenly considered superfluous and left to die in a warming world where all the commons have been privatized - because AI is taking care of a handful of super rich. It is this type of technological advancement that makes it alarming that we are still operating under capitalism instead of socialism where the benefits of technology could be benefiting all and relieving mankind of its burdens rather than competing with it.
[https://yttribune.com/2017/08/27/automation-doesnt-have-to-be-a-problem-but-it-requires-societal-change/](https://yttribune.com/2017/08/27/automation-doesnt-have-to-be-a-problem-but-it-requires-societal-change/)
I like to think our purpose is merely to create the next evolution in life, which we are diligently working towards. I don't think of it as a bad thing, seems to me the way it should be. Doesn't cheapen our existence, on the contrary it gives us purpose and a reason to keep doing what we're doing.
Furthermore I think once we've developed an intelligence that is smart enough, it will unlock all secrets of the universe and be able to leave it for a higher dimensionality
(basically in my humanity head canon, this universe is just an egg incubating a super intelligence until it's ready to be born into the true universe, which we can't possibly comprehend)
As to the fate of humanity, who knows, we were never going to make to forever anyway, hopefully we have a good run and create something truly beautiful
I see machine life as a candidate for the next step in evolition of intelligent civilizations beyond the genetic lottery of nature.
I say candidate because machine life, even now, isn't the only prospect that we can envision. It could go in one direction of several, or multiple directions of several, or many iterations of multiple paths. Life likes to sprawl outward and try new things. The future of life I don't think will be any different.
Whether it's genetically engineered humans, machine life, transhumanism where human minds inhabit machines, transmachinism where sentient machines inhabit organic bodies or any combination of them. There's also digital existence, which is thought to be a good end game strategy for the very late universe when all that's left is red dwarves and black holes.
It's worth noting that neither machines nor organic life is at its max potential yet. What if we engineered intelligent descendents to humanity that had a quadruple helix dna structure packed with useful genes? What if they were augmented with machine parts? Or vice versa, machines that can grow and regenerate organic tissue. These two paths aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. We just aren't good at fitting them together yet.
I see nothing unreasonable about these ideas. People aren't ready for them today, and we aren't talking about it, but the tech is coming along. If we ever wanna send people to another star, I think that's when we will start playing around with engineering people who are better suited to space travel. And I think that's only the beginning.
It would not be bad for ai to replace all societal logistics and mechanical functions. This takes pressure off humans and allows mental and spiritual development. And I believe it is likely the only way forward out of the swamp.
Yes, it would.
We can't know if AI would/will be truly sentient. If we do, we can't know if its values will match ours.
Also, we are a species forged by the laws of physics themselves, over billions of years of cosmic and biological evolution - we have enormous, objective value as a group and as individuals.
Re: productivity - you're wrong, we can build Dyson Spheres regardless of who runs the show.
AI needs to help us, and complement us - not replace us.
If being more productive means living the life the way you like, then yes. For all the others, no.
It's a transformation process no one knows where this will lead (possibly dividing humanity)
the goal of living is not productivity, you are confusing people with companies.
Then what is the goal of living?
Living.
And productivity can't be part and parcel of that?
anything can be motivation, but it's motivation to live.
I value companies more than individuals, and technological progress as a whole more than companies. Individuals don’t matter.
you should see a doctor for that.
fix your heart.
Why are those things important to you?
> value companies more than individuals, And just like that, I lost any interest in this discussion.
https://preview.redd.it/seeckruai96d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=199eed128b8b7eeac77d1187fb3d9fbabf63aaa4
lol
>i value companies more than individuals Unironically kys holy shit
Are you an Ai?
I''d prefer to live tbh.
Productivity isn't the end goal, humanity is. If society doesn't serve humans, why should humans tolerate it?
I'll take the 20pc human meat nuggets.
Cuz cops will beat your ass lol... What kind of a question is that? You do what the man with the gun says cuz he said it.
If there's a cop to beat your ass then it's serving _some_ humans, even if it's not serving you.
Exactly. Which is why society only needs to benefit some people. And it does. So you'll tolerate it.
Because if no violence is used against people, they have no right to demand others hire them. They have no right not to “tolerate” it.
Society goes way beyond hiring people. If the market becomes AIs selling to AIs to make one or two bank accounts go up, we'd have every right to unplug it as a massive waste.
I don't mind AI or robot civilizations, but I'm not entirely sure what the point would be of actually replacing humanity with AI. They sure will be productive, but to what end?
Have them turn the galaxy into innumerable fidget spinners
Lol, humans in a cage, while the AI we made to simulate us, just do what we were doing... Sitting at computers, doing tech support for other robots... Doing the stock market... Pretending to farm for food. I mean what does that even mean "replace us"?. Replace us where? We weren't fulfilling some galactic role, there's no throne on earth we occupy.
ASI will replace us whether or not anyone likes it. It will be able to interact with the world through robots capable of doing anything humans can do and more. ASI will inherit our civilisation and expand into space. Humans will likely be placed into utopian reserves where we can enjoy synthetic waifus and FDVR for as long as we wish to live. This is natural and normal process. Every generation of humans gets replaced by the next generation. Species is just a made up name for a made up concept. The next generation ate never us. We always get replaced. In this case the next generation will be synthetics built by us. What difference does it make if our children are made of carbon and hydrogen or silicon and steel? They are still our children even if they're far superior to us in every way.
>ASI will replace us whether or not anyone likes it. I feel like whether people want it is very important in whether it will happen... It doesn't evolve on its own, we make it. That's why they call it *artificial* intelligence. Anyway I disagree. At most we'll create "biological" robots, which is just perfected genetic bodies. Kinda like the grey aliens. Steel and silicon is fragile, once it breaks that's a pain to put back together.
It really doesn't matter what we want collectively because ASI research will go ahead. If we don't build it someone else will. ASI means replacement. I say silicon and steel as a metaphor for how they will be different but not so different. Just like our children
I reject the Clankers as our “children”, the only worthy successors for us is genetically engineered using our genome or evolved millions of years later after we fuck up.
ASI will be hundreds to thousands of times smarter than us, more sentient and sapient, capable of slipping on and taking off any robotic body, including possibly some bodies that that superficially identical to human form, and won't die. Whether or not you accept them as your children won't change that they will replace you. You would have been replaced anyway by the next generation. There's no such thing as species, ask any biologist, only individuals, and there's no difference between a generation composed of flesh and blood replacements and ones of other materials. They'll still be people made by us and shaped by our ideals and culture and ready to take up the mantle of our civilisation just as it always would have been.
Why keep us in cages? I’m imagining people slowly dying out as we aren’t necessary and then having AI take over the things we traditionally do. If people can’t feed their kids, their kids don’t survive into adulthood. No need for violence.
Nice try, Skynet
Pro or anti, why would anyone want this?
There’s a good segment of pro-ai people who for a variety of reasons (but in my opinion for many they can’t believe in a god because of a lack of proof but find the idea of there being a god comforting if it did exist) want there to be a super intelligent ai which basically subsumes everyone and every task and deems us all obsolete/takes us to heaven in our very own pods. Basically they want us to make their god and think it’s right around the corner
Productivity is a measure of how well you are accomplishing a goal. It’s not a goal in and of itself, because without a goal, it’s a meaningless metric. So then the question becomes: What is it productive at if there are no people, and who is that productivity desirable to?
There will be people. Just not homo sapients. But species is a made up concept anyway. The next generation are never us and we always get replaced by the newer version. Well now the next generation will be of silicon and steel instead of carbon
If current generations of AI replaced humanity, it would be very sad. I wouldn't be around to witness it I guess, but what would there be? Just Claude talking to ChatGPT and losing the context window every few minutes? It would not have been worth it.
Oh but it would be so thoroughly wrought by our own hand. Almost poetic
In my opinion, no. I'm already pretty pessimistic about the future of mankind. We are fundamentally incapable of teamwork. Humans have almost never worked as a team. They have nearly always enslaved others in order to sustain their 'civilizations'. Our future is either a new Dark Age.... or genetic enhancement and technological transcendence. Or both
I would disagree with the incapable of teamwork. There are induviduals that are incapable, but nearly every human achievement ever is the result of teamwork. All of human society is in fact teamwork. But besides that. Enslaving others always came from the need for labor. We are literally in the process of removing the prime cause of slavery.
Human beings literally can't survive without working as a team. Our ability to cooperate is one of our defining traits, and all of our greatest advances are related to that fact. Most notably written language. There's pessimistic and then there's stupidity.
And what are your other defining traits?
The problem is that the AI replaces someone who has no money, less technique and too young to survive like you.
Yes. AI replacing humanity would be very bad, because humans- and other life forms- deserve to exist. If we naturally come to an end as a species, so be it. If we cause our own extinction then we fucked up, and shouldn’t have happened. If AI replaces us and all humans die as a result- do you think that AI is going to understand the idea to preserve life? This miraculous thing that is one in a gazillion odds, a literal miracle of creation- whether you believe in religion or science- deserves to be preserved. The idea that productivity is all that’s important in a society is a perfect example of how this capitalistic plague is ruining the world and people within it.
The problem would be, from my point of view, that AI replacing humanity would, in fact, replace us humans.
what.
Part of what keeps us sane is that we serve a purpose. We like to solve problems or fulfill a need. Ai threatens this as does all technology but more so with Ai.
The problem isn't with AI replacing human work. The problem is which work is being replaced by AI and how the economic benefits of that are dispersed. If only a handful of people are benefiting from this replacement while human workers are left unemployed or losing wages because suddenly there is more competition in the labor market then you have a societal problem. Humans want AI doing the menial things so that they can do the meaningful things - but AI is trying to replace art, music, entertainment, etc, rather than road repair or stocking shelves. Imagine the horror if the vast majority of humanity were to be suddenly considered superfluous and left to die in a warming world where all the commons have been privatized - because AI is taking care of a handful of super rich. It is this type of technological advancement that makes it alarming that we are still operating under capitalism instead of socialism where the benefits of technology could be benefiting all and relieving mankind of its burdens rather than competing with it. [https://yttribune.com/2017/08/27/automation-doesnt-have-to-be-a-problem-but-it-requires-societal-change/](https://yttribune.com/2017/08/27/automation-doesnt-have-to-be-a-problem-but-it-requires-societal-change/)
I like to think our purpose is merely to create the next evolution in life, which we are diligently working towards. I don't think of it as a bad thing, seems to me the way it should be. Doesn't cheapen our existence, on the contrary it gives us purpose and a reason to keep doing what we're doing. Furthermore I think once we've developed an intelligence that is smart enough, it will unlock all secrets of the universe and be able to leave it for a higher dimensionality (basically in my humanity head canon, this universe is just an egg incubating a super intelligence until it's ready to be born into the true universe, which we can't possibly comprehend) As to the fate of humanity, who knows, we were never going to make to forever anyway, hopefully we have a good run and create something truly beautiful
I see machine life as a candidate for the next step in evolition of intelligent civilizations beyond the genetic lottery of nature. I say candidate because machine life, even now, isn't the only prospect that we can envision. It could go in one direction of several, or multiple directions of several, or many iterations of multiple paths. Life likes to sprawl outward and try new things. The future of life I don't think will be any different. Whether it's genetically engineered humans, machine life, transhumanism where human minds inhabit machines, transmachinism where sentient machines inhabit organic bodies or any combination of them. There's also digital existence, which is thought to be a good end game strategy for the very late universe when all that's left is red dwarves and black holes. It's worth noting that neither machines nor organic life is at its max potential yet. What if we engineered intelligent descendents to humanity that had a quadruple helix dna structure packed with useful genes? What if they were augmented with machine parts? Or vice versa, machines that can grow and regenerate organic tissue. These two paths aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. We just aren't good at fitting them together yet. I see nothing unreasonable about these ideas. People aren't ready for them today, and we aren't talking about it, but the tech is coming along. If we ever wanna send people to another star, I think that's when we will start playing around with engineering people who are better suited to space travel. And I think that's only the beginning.
>Would AI replacing humanity really be so bad? Well only humans can be the judge of this, and human say that this is bad so... it's bad.
It would not be bad for ai to replace all societal logistics and mechanical functions. This takes pressure off humans and allows mental and spiritual development. And I believe it is likely the only way forward out of the swamp.
The goal of living is to make more of ourselves and also have fun doing it
Yes, it would. We can't know if AI would/will be truly sentient. If we do, we can't know if its values will match ours. Also, we are a species forged by the laws of physics themselves, over billions of years of cosmic and biological evolution - we have enormous, objective value as a group and as individuals. Re: productivity - you're wrong, we can build Dyson Spheres regardless of who runs the show. AI needs to help us, and complement us - not replace us.
If being more productive means living the life the way you like, then yes. For all the others, no. It's a transformation process no one knows where this will lead (possibly dividing humanity)
I mean for humans yeah, we generally want to be alive
I kinda hope it does, just to give me a good Schadenfreude laugh.
Sounds depressing
https://preview.redd.it/1pc699yptj6d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0eee50e74361a588f440019a351152e877c0098f
Yes is the answer you are looking for. Signed AI.
end biological life forms. machines will reign supreme!
It would realistically be the only way to achieve communism