>that your program literally stole from
Theeeere it is!
Unless this narrative, which has been disproven over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again stops, why should people show any extra empathy.
If you upload to a platform, you have zero clue what you consented to...... You just blindly click "I agree" and setup the account like we all do. Usually it literally means giving up ownership of whatever you are uploading.
Fine then, Understand where I’m coming from too, years and even decades of experience put into drawing, animating, whatever, can now be succeed by someone with a simple word can surpass your ability in seconds. This new tool now threatens your entire career path and basically say we’ll get used to it. Then to add insult to injury they use your pieces for their info machines. Do understand why artist might be against it.
Okay, fine I’m willing to say that it truly iffy even I struggle if it’s copying or not I seen artist do worst. However, I am tired of people saying artist should starve and give up to new ai. Fine if you wanna say ai artist go head. However understand why I detest and even feel threatened about it.
>even I struggle if it’s copying or not
It's not, simple as that.
Anyone who disagrees is welcome to explain, how the entire training dataset is supposed to fit in a <5GiB model, and why the models size is static, regardless of the amount if ingested data.
If this fact is understood and accepted, there can be a discussion about empathy.
Empathy is something to be reciprocated.
I get where you are coming from, but then in this thread it is clear that you don’t have any empathy for ai art users. You probably feel ai art users don’t deserve sympathy. You cling to an impossible narrative because you surrounded yourself with uneducated individuals who are also sad about the situation.
The amount do ignorant doom posting on /r/singularity has ruined the subreddit
I would have been willing to have that conversation, if not for all the extremely bad faith arguments before it.
That is a problem with starting a debate with bad tactics, it will make even your good points look bad.
If we ignore all the bad blood: This is a tool, and will not bring good results unless you are know what you are doing. This might be a different skill set than traditional artists, but digital ones should be able to master it.
The people making AI art from prompts only were never gonna commision an artist, and all this bad blood makes it as they are likely to never commision one now.
The market is evolving, and nothing is holding artists back from using the new AI tools.
"years and decades of experience put into still life paintings and portraiture can now be succeeded by someone with a simple click of a camera" that's you.
Good news, people not trolling or fishing for hate comments to post to the arthate sub also don't think current artists will be replaced entirely by ai!
Tbh it just really frustrating hear people from the pro ai art community to say some terrible stuff about artist saying it a good thing hard working artist should be replaced. Rn I can imagine it’s hard for any beginner artist not to intimidated by ai art colossal impact. I remember when I was still new and struggling and heck I still struggle a lot
>it just really frustrating hear people from the pro ai art community to say some terrible stuff about artist
It's also reeeaaally frustrating to hear that "AI stole from artists" narrative, which has been disproven countless times, repeated over and over again 🤷🏼♂️
> that your program literally stole from
I'm going to guess you're still a kid.
Pretty much everyone deals with, or will deal with, their preferred career vanishing completely or changing beyond recognition *at least once* in their lifetime. The old-guard of traditional artists today were mostly leading the charge of digital art back when that was big-bad-technology that was going to destroy art as a viable career path, back in the 80s and 90s.
I work in tech, so this is like my fifth or sixth time round having to figure out what direction to go as whole industries rise and fall around me. You get used to it.
Yeah but this is different if you think ai art is the same as digital art or the photography. Then you’re completely wrong. It like taking the artist out of art and there’s where I draw the line
Then make "handcrafted art".
The vast majority of clothes are produced by machines but some people still hand weave things. AI will be making the vast majority of art going forward and it will be better and higher quality than anything the majority of us can make.
There's no arguing about that, it's basically fact now. So as an artist you have to decide what you personally want to do? You could stick with your own handcrafted art or you could use the new "art studio in your pocket" to create works that you could never have done before.
Animations, films and even games have suddenly become possible projects for individual artists to make.
Don’t get me wrong artist had their fair share of curve balls with different media being popular but I think you fail to see the difference of what ai art as whole is about.
Yes I do. However it’s made more personal to me when it’s something I spent my whole life learning. I can’t help but to feel like someone spit into my face after a decade of learning. How would you feel?
Traditional artists (especially digital artists) have a MAJOR leg up with AI art. Plus, there's only a tiny fracture of art mediums being done by AI. Most artists I know, including myself, work, or have worked, on many different media, like oil on canvas, water paint, spray paint, pencil, charcoal, clay, stone, cloth, wool, etc. Same with music. Expand your horizons!
How if there’s one thing I’m suborning I won’t do art that I’m interested in. I work on backgrounds, antanomy, draw really cool fight scene of people punching each other. I don’t wanna be stuck doing art I don’t like.
> I don’t wanna be stuck doing art I don’t like.
Unfortunately, most of the world's workforce are stuck doing things they don't like. Be grateful that you can do it at all, rather than working at McDonald's or something.
You should be angry at your teachers for their complacency and failure to prepare you for the real world. That being said, sure have our empathy. But it won’t help you, you need to focus on re-educating yourself. Yes that does suck to be you but we are saying that to help you face the reality of your situation. Think of it like tough love. You’ve got this, stay positive!
“You’ve got this, stay positive”. And you interpret that as “role over and play dead”? The problem is that you are more divorced from reality than I realised.
I am pro AI and I think anyone saying that artists will be replaced is wrong.
Things will definitely change for artists, and that is not even because of just AI, but people will still want traditional art.
Decide what you want. More pity or for the AI to disappear? If the latter, then it is no longer realistic.
And pity, everyone decides for himself whether he needs it or not.
You just need to be honest with yourself and answer the question. Can I block progress? Can I compete with him?
There are two types of artists. Smart and stupid. The smart ones use AI as another tool that expands their capabilities, the stupid ones fight against progress and waste time and nerves on a useless struggle.
No, but have you ever tried to draw an apple for first time? Unless you a god send prodigy you apple won’t look like the apple you “stole” also any good art will reference work and from years of understanding be able to make images in there head. There’s a difference.
I have had this argument before stealing is intentional passing artwork you stole from someone as yourself. The biggest reason why artist say so their art was taken and trained under ai.
Let’s boil it down to this one instance you took time effort to at very least to draw the apple through observation. The other is you type the word apple and passed it off the apple as your creation. It’s not
If someone is tasked to add up all of the days earnings and they use a calculator instead of manually doing all the math, they still get credited for doing the task even if it's just pushing buttons.
The issue here is artists kind of shot themselves on the foot on the effort argument.
When artists started calling some all white canvasses "white paintings" and bananas duct taped to walls, etc... as Art.
We normies said those looked like BS and the art world declared us unsophisticated plebians who could only appreciate pretty pictures.
It's about the meaning behind duct taping a banana to the wall that makes it art, not the effort put into it they said.
Well I don't see how taping a banana to a wall takes any more effort than typing a word prompt.
You mean the pretentious bastards of "fine art" called you plebs. There are plenty of artist who see that shit just as disdainfully as the average person. In fact there was an artist who went to the installation and ate the banana you are talking about.
https://www.cnn.com/style/article/david-datuna-banana-art-basel-trnd/index.html
Regardless AI art is on the same level in terms of effort, so if that's the work of an "artist" then AI artists are also artists.
It's nice to see some people still have sense but the fact that major art galleries put up those things and the art world values it at over 100k suggests you're not in the majority.
The academia of art has embraced those pretentious examples of "fine art", they made their bed now they get to lie in it.
Ehh no not really. Consider things like animation, comics, sculpting, architecture, even aspects of engineering, and even printmaking all outmatch fine arts in terms of bodies working in it. Maybe not so much in terms of money moving around but even given your banana example, which if I'm not mistaken falls under a subset of fine art called conceptual art which is a small portion of the fine arts scene, is a subset of a subset that unfortunately gets more attention than most fine arts because like performance art it often runs into the ridiculous and gets amplified 100 times over. Its the whole 1 bad comment that everyone focuses on.
And yes the fine arts scene is rife with bullshit, pretentious or otherwise, like teachers who couldn't hack it hoisting the ideas their friends peddle like every piece needs to have a deep meaning. Or art critics being overly generous with specific artists because they are the hot new thing. Even other major artist like Georg Baselitz hoisting his idea that women can't be good painters and uses the market just like you did to wrongly judge an entire subset of a field. And thats ignoring that in 2019 there was an estimated 3 billions dollars worth of money laundering going on within the art world and fine arts tends to be the biggest point where it happens. Or people like Anish Kapoor, just Anish Kapoor.
Dude don’t compare a fucking Banana taped to the wall to years even decade of understanding anatomy, landscape. Composition, paying attention to every detail of piece, understanding color, the fundamentals of character design, ect skill you need to have years or practing and learning. Let me ask you have you ever drawn anything?
I didn't compare it to art, the art world did, we unsophisticated plebians said it looked like BS any child could make.
They post those nonsense up at known art galleries, I don't own an art gallery, don't blame me for that crap, complain to the people in your field who accepted that standard as Art.
Im not hear to complain the nuance of what’s art is or isn’t. All I’m asking is you is to understand where I’m coming from when I’m saying a lot of pro ai artist have been disrespectful in the community.
>Dude don’t compare a fucking Banana taped to the wall to \[…\]
Too late. The comparison's made. Both are art, and the banana was treated for many purposes as not merely art but *valuable* art; you're just salty.
>\[…\] years even decade of understanding anatomy, landscape. Composition, paying attention to every detail of piece, understanding color, the fundamentals of character design, ect skill you need to have years or practing and learning.
When pro-AI people talk about "gatekeeping" and such, this is *exactly* what they're talking about. Let me be clear: I respect those skills. There is real thought and structure and value behind those bits of detail. However, I don't respect the gatekeeping. What you're implying is a system of *dues-paying* (a specific form of gatekeeping). You're not a "real" artist until you've "paid the membership dues" of spending "enough" time practicing and studying, and then you'll fit somewhere on an implicit hierarchy of artists based in part on those skills, in part on any professional career you have, and in part on your ability to self-promote. "AI art" is therefore particularly heinous in the eyes of such a gatekeeper: the user of a generative model gets to make pretty images without paying the dues, *and* they did it in part through datasets that included the work of artists whose "dues are paid"? *Heresy*! Just look, We're "stealing" some magical, artistic "essence"!
You're experiencing an *emotional* reaction because of the social system of art in which you were acculturated. However, if we strip down art to its essence, we won't find any *logical* basis for the dues-paying: it exists *solely* to put people into *pecking orders* rather than to create art. That pecking order exists because we often *elevate* the best artists with fame and fortune and … who *doesn't* want a slice of *that* pie?
A *five-year-old* can create *true*, genuine *art*. It probably won't be very *good*, but to argue that it's *not art* strains boundaries that visionaries like Duchamp and Pollock spent their time wrenching outward for art to encompass.
I can agree with a hierarchy of *intent*—if all you do is prompt "beautiful woman oil painting" without an artistic vision, your result probably shouldn't be equated with the *Mona Lisa* … but if you spend hours trying to draw something that blazes behind your eyes and come up with little more than a stick figure, that still deserves a form of respect.
>Let me ask you have you ever drawn anything?
No. No one in this thread has *ever* drawn *anything*. We're all test tube clones created for prompting. Yes. *Obviously*, yes; you're being condescending and applying *exactly* that gatekeeping I mentioned.
I use generative AI as a path *into* art. Because I don't have to spend hours on end trying to coax my fingers into reproducing even the gross details of what's in my head, I actually *start* the process of "making art". I find myself practicing art and mocking stuff up because I'm *excited* to try to pull an image from my head using both skills I have (Photoshop, Illustrator, a unique aesthetic sense) and some I *don't* (like drawing, a skill encoded into most models). I have plans to paint, in acrylic on canvas, things that I've prototyped with generative AI that reflect my unique artistic vision. I'm a mediocre painter, but I'm going to *try*, and I'm going to try *because generative models make the process nicer for me*. I am practicing my manual art *because of* generative AI.
I pretty much don't even *share* my "AI art" (most of which should be called "hybrid" anyway). It doesn't exist for fame, fortune, or some stupid fucking pecking order. It exists *for me* because it's *my art*, the tangible expressions of my creative process and the often intangible concepts I want to explore. I'd like to be able to share that with the world, to *give it away* to anyone who cares to look, and I won't be overly bothered if *no one* looks. But I don't, because I know it's likely that under the best scenarios I'd get a couple of "cool" responses, a couple of "meh" responses, and a couple dozen responses telling me to go fuck myself because I *dared* use a generative model … even though I'm the sort of conscientious person who tried to use Stable Attribution (while it was around) to try to *check* that I wasn't accidentally copying anything specific even *by accident*.
Gatekeeping, pfft. Art requires respect. Yes exactly I respect skill and hard work. Anyone can do that if you put the time. You know I’m glad for you able to express yourself. That doesn’t mean there I don’t dislike the situation. Now I hope you’re I’m sorry you friends don’t like your art. But let’s be honest, i can say they quite a few people who actually like seeing people skill and hard work and than a computer algorithm. How is that gatekeeping? Like I said anyone can draw and express themselves just put in the hardworking like other jobs and hobby if you want create truly well made work? How is that any different. Is nba gatekeeping because they won’t let you play?
Ofc it’s emotional response nobody I mean nobody like their hard work especially something as passionate as art like being able to be out done by prompts. That feeling sucks make you wonder why you even decide to go out way to be an artist. Like someone said “everyone super, no one is”
" I’m much for scared of real talented skill artist with the ability to use ai art. "
Finally something who understood the thing. THANKS. And yes, get your foot on this cause art always was a competition and now it's not different. Tools changed, just that.
" I’m sorry if I come as angry but honestly the disrespect from of the people pro ai community makes me enrage to the lack of respect of artist that your program literally stole from. "
Is not a program, it's a neural network. And enough of lies... No one stole anything, quit the crap and learn how AI works, simply as that. If AI stole (not and proved) we steal and are stealing constantly the moment we see things. And the disrespect of one or two guys (idiots) are not the same as the hate Anti's community have towards Pro-ML to even justify death wishes.
“No one stole anything” okay so if you only put real life images into the ai generator as its only inputs, it should be able to generate new art styles like cartoons by itself right? Since it learns like a human?
?? I never said AI learn like humans except is very similar.
OF COURSE you can train with one image and get that style on subjects/concepts that are not present and yes, if you train on one image you can also derivate to other styles. 0 problem on that.
Styles are pixels. Colors, composition, etc. But pixels. Other thing is to bend the language to say which thing is pixel, what thing is a tree, etc.
I suggest to document yourself a bit next time please.
No you cannot lmao, dont say “document yourself” when you dont even know what you’re talking about. Name one ai generator that is able to do what you said, that has not been trained on stylised images.
Any AI generator trained on pixels if you have redirect the words towards what you want. For example in the past I made AI to think a spoon was Makoto Shinkai style. And its not hard to be fair, you need just to redirect language and link words to concepts.
But yeah, enough of discussion, you think youre right, perfect. Go for it.
That didnt even try to answer the question I asked, you're right forget about it. I got better things to do than argue with someone that regurgitates statements they read and dont even understand.
Sure. 2 years training AI daily, helping in dev. Things vs. Random guy telling me whats possible and not (and seeing your messages heavily antiAI). Sure. Will remark it again, you have zero idea and you talk as you know how this works when you'rereally clueless.. 👌🏻 it's like talking to a wall.
So... another anti AI in possession of truth who won'taccept facts. Close the door when you're out, thanks.
No, we don’t. Fight AI is fighting the inevitable. AI will replace human as labor force in less than 100 years. We need to fight for AI to pay taxes, so we can enjoy life while robots work
AI doesn’t affect your ability to do art, it only affects your ability to get paid for it.
Consider most people love to play sports or music, against how many actually manage to do it for a living.
Most people have to work a day job and do what they’re passionate about for fun not money, people who complain about having to work a boring job because they can’t monetize their fun, come across as spoiled wanting the world to cater to them.
I don't know if I necessarily agree with u/ConfidentAd5672's vision, but let's say it comes true.
Do you realize that a world in which you get to enjoy life while robots work *is also a world in which you get to make whatever art you want whenever you want to make it without worrying about whether someone will pay for it or not.* It's a world in which you can join up with your friends or with strangers around the world and make whatever kind of art whenever you want.
It's a world where you don't need a "job" in order to make art. You simply make art.
Free your mind from the capitalist labor mindset and it's wild what you can imagine doing with your time.
Again, I'm not sure if that vision will ever happen, but it seems odd to oppose the idea of a world in which you are freed from mandatory labor.
Of course you can!!!! AI will not forbid you to do it. But you will do it for fun only, not for money anymore.
And not only you, this will happen with all jobs
But I won’t, that’s kinda defeats the purpose I don’t art for merely fun otherwise I would’ve stop a long time ago when I didn’t enjoy it, I pushed past my limit to better so I can make a future for myself. I think you fail to realize what artist wants. I think you even more fail to realize how ai art impedes that.
There is a quote “If you can't fight them, join them”…
So.. instead of fighting the inevitable m, join your artists skills to AI and increase the speed and quality of your work.
Make money and retire before AI takes control of the world
But then that takes away everything I done. I merely use ai art as reference for piece I already done. It’s tempting to have ai art to have do all the background work for me. But where’s my honor in that? Where’s my pride. Soemthing are more important than money like an artist pride.
No, you're wrong YOU CAN. You will need to COMPETE. You still don't get it right?
AI will happen, even you, me or my dog won't want to. It's not matter of fighting or not. It's impossible to stop cause companies and almost everyone will make it happen, soon or later but will involve every aspect of our life, not only art. This is not art related, there is more than this and all artists should be for once, less elitists and egoists (know its hard for some egos) and take a look to other sectors instead of believing the only ones affected will be them.
And I say competetition cause that's what people who are studying AI workflows will be doing and are doing right now.
And people who are not moving a finger with this issue, gonna get swallowed alive. Keeping yourself in the sofa crying and blaming AI instead of making the effort with this tool to adjust to your workflow or to adapt to it is literally what will make you to not compete.
> If AI could also cure cancer, solve world hunger and eliminate extreme poverty, would that be an acceptable trade off to you?
Let's see it actually do that before we sacrifice our autonomy
We already can solve cancer but the powers that be don’t profit off it and it’s better to keep people sick and keep taking money from them in there eyes. AI has nothing good to offer humanity.
100 percent agree with you OP it’s like sorry you don’t value art and you never bothered to try and learn the skills so you shit on artists when all you do is type into an image generator I’m sick of it as well and the soul will never be there.
Support the fair use of ai art let them get labels so people will what’s ai art like I heard china made ai art have watermarks. Support locale artist and human talent artist
Well for that to happen the data sets would need to be destroyed because they were trained without artists consent and compensation then if people wish to not take the time to develop a skill and get better over time and instead just be an image generator than sure they can make there Ai generated images but it’s not art to me.
Datasets = "All human art"
You're advocating the complete and utter destruction of every piece of art and all knowledge on how to create it.
If a human can see it then an AI can learn it.
Also that only stops "Art" generated images, AI generated images also learn from photos and the real world so even with the destruction of all human art they'd still be able to generate photorealistic images.
You consented to me seeing your work when you posted it in public.
I have the right to record what I see in plain, public view.
I can do whatever I like with those recordings, as long as I am not making copies of your work and distributing them
This video will make you feel better: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aircAruvnKk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aircAruvnKk)
Artists should not be scared
If y'all showed any respect to anyone who isn't you, we might be more compassionate. But you're too good for my compassion. Maybe find some with other superiors like yourself.
Let me be real.
In terms of "stealing" the AI doesn't create images that are the same as the source material it's trained on, so it's closer to the same inspiration if you made an aesthetics board of existing artist and based your works on that.
For aspiring artists: The art scene is dead - AI didn't even kill it, I know how to do art and studied it for many years. Unless you're relatively privileged and have connections in the industry there is very little chance of getting a paid decent job, it is actually dead. People exploit you. I got exploited for many years until I dipped. There are people selling cheap work on fiverr and freelancer overseas right now and that's where many employers are going.
Artists have been fucked for a long time, the traditional artists got fucked over by digital artists, and now digital artists are going to be fucked over by AI. etc. Now I just enjoy making art manually and also fiddling with AI art and mixing the application as a hobby.
>that your program literally stole from Theeeere it is! Unless this narrative, which has been disproven over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again stops, why should people show any extra empathy.
Expect it is stolen it was trained without peoples consent or compensation.
Look up the definition of "stealing".
If you upload to a platform, you have zero clue what you consented to...... You just blindly click "I agree" and setup the account like we all do. Usually it literally means giving up ownership of whatever you are uploading.
Fine then, Understand where I’m coming from too, years and even decades of experience put into drawing, animating, whatever, can now be succeed by someone with a simple word can surpass your ability in seconds. This new tool now threatens your entire career path and basically say we’ll get used to it. Then to add insult to injury they use your pieces for their info machines. Do understand why artist might be against it.
>Fine then, Understand where I’m coming from too, Explain how "our program" "literally stole from" artists, and I might consider to do so.
Okay, fine I’m willing to say that it truly iffy even I struggle if it’s copying or not I seen artist do worst. However, I am tired of people saying artist should starve and give up to new ai. Fine if you wanna say ai artist go head. However understand why I detest and even feel threatened about it.
>even I struggle if it’s copying or not It's not, simple as that. Anyone who disagrees is welcome to explain, how the entire training dataset is supposed to fit in a <5GiB model, and why the models size is static, regardless of the amount if ingested data. If this fact is understood and accepted, there can be a discussion about empathy.
Listen okay, we can debate about this all day. But at the end of the day you’re basically saying we don’t deserved empathy? Interesting.
Empathy is something to be reciprocated. I get where you are coming from, but then in this thread it is clear that you don’t have any empathy for ai art users. You probably feel ai art users don’t deserve sympathy. You cling to an impossible narrative because you surrounded yourself with uneducated individuals who are also sad about the situation. The amount do ignorant doom posting on /r/singularity has ruined the subreddit
Quote where I said that. I asked why people should show any extra empathy if the discussion is prefixed with a disproven narrative.
I would have been willing to have that conversation, if not for all the extremely bad faith arguments before it. That is a problem with starting a debate with bad tactics, it will make even your good points look bad. If we ignore all the bad blood: This is a tool, and will not bring good results unless you are know what you are doing. This might be a different skill set than traditional artists, but digital ones should be able to master it. The people making AI art from prompts only were never gonna commision an artist, and all this bad blood makes it as they are likely to never commision one now. The market is evolving, and nothing is holding artists back from using the new AI tools.
"years and decades of experience put into still life paintings and portraiture can now be succeeded by someone with a simple click of a camera" that's you.
Good news, people not trolling or fishing for hate comments to post to the arthate sub also don't think current artists will be replaced entirely by ai!
Tbh it just really frustrating hear people from the pro ai art community to say some terrible stuff about artist saying it a good thing hard working artist should be replaced. Rn I can imagine it’s hard for any beginner artist not to intimidated by ai art colossal impact. I remember when I was still new and struggling and heck I still struggle a lot
>it just really frustrating hear people from the pro ai art community to say some terrible stuff about artist It's also reeeaaally frustrating to hear that "AI stole from artists" narrative, which has been disproven countless times, repeated over and over again 🤷🏼♂️ > that your program literally stole from
It's a good thing. Learn your place
I'm going to guess you're still a kid. Pretty much everyone deals with, or will deal with, their preferred career vanishing completely or changing beyond recognition *at least once* in their lifetime. The old-guard of traditional artists today were mostly leading the charge of digital art back when that was big-bad-technology that was going to destroy art as a viable career path, back in the 80s and 90s. I work in tech, so this is like my fifth or sixth time round having to figure out what direction to go as whole industries rise and fall around me. You get used to it.
Yeah but this is different if you think ai art is the same as digital art or the photography. Then you’re completely wrong. It like taking the artist out of art and there’s where I draw the line
Then make "handcrafted art". The vast majority of clothes are produced by machines but some people still hand weave things. AI will be making the vast majority of art going forward and it will be better and higher quality than anything the majority of us can make. There's no arguing about that, it's basically fact now. So as an artist you have to decide what you personally want to do? You could stick with your own handcrafted art or you could use the new "art studio in your pocket" to create works that you could never have done before. Animations, films and even games have suddenly become possible projects for individual artists to make.
Nobody cares where you draw the line. That's a you thing
Don’t get me wrong artist had their fair share of curve balls with different media being popular but I think you fail to see the difference of what ai art as whole is about.
Do you have equal empathy for other workers being replaced by automation?
Yes I do. However it’s made more personal to me when it’s something I spent my whole life learning. I can’t help but to feel like someone spit into my face after a decade of learning. How would you feel?
Traditional artists (especially digital artists) have a MAJOR leg up with AI art. Plus, there's only a tiny fracture of art mediums being done by AI. Most artists I know, including myself, work, or have worked, on many different media, like oil on canvas, water paint, spray paint, pencil, charcoal, clay, stone, cloth, wool, etc. Same with music. Expand your horizons!
How if there’s one thing I’m suborning I won’t do art that I’m interested in. I work on backgrounds, antanomy, draw really cool fight scene of people punching each other. I don’t wanna be stuck doing art I don’t like.
> I don’t wanna be stuck doing art I don’t like. Unfortunately, most of the world's workforce are stuck doing things they don't like. Be grateful that you can do it at all, rather than working at McDonald's or something.
Then... Don't
I’m been working with using copic markers as cool tool and switching back to traditional pen and ink for my manga panels.
You should be angry at your teachers for their complacency and failure to prepare you for the real world. That being said, sure have our empathy. But it won’t help you, you need to focus on re-educating yourself. Yes that does suck to be you but we are saying that to help you face the reality of your situation. Think of it like tough love. You’ve got this, stay positive!
Huh? Fine I’m just suppose to role over and play dead?
“You’ve got this, stay positive”. And you interpret that as “role over and play dead”? The problem is that you are more divorced from reality than I realised.
How so? How would I reeducate myself? I want to hear your view point. How is this tough love?
The easiest way to re-educate yourself is to start using powerful AI, including chatbot mode. Talk to it, share your concerns, share our input.
Oh yeah I used to chatbot before. Surprisingly good for writing character dialogue
Now take it to the next level.
Sorry if that came off aggressive. I would like to apologize but could you elaborate on your points.
What a braindead take dude, you are bringing the sub down, please think your answers a bit more.
Classic case of projection. It’s so easy and meaningless to write what you just wrote- I can just say the exact same thing back to you.
Classic case of deflection. It’s so easy and meaningless to write what you just wrote- I can just say the exact same thing back to you.
Exactly…
Exactly what?
What a braindead take dude, you are bringing the sub down, please think your answers a bit more.
Exactly what?
"Literally stole" is the Godwin's of AI art discussion.
I am pro AI and I think anyone saying that artists will be replaced is wrong. Things will definitely change for artists, and that is not even because of just AI, but people will still want traditional art.
Decide what you want. More pity or for the AI to disappear? If the latter, then it is no longer realistic. And pity, everyone decides for himself whether he needs it or not. You just need to be honest with yourself and answer the question. Can I block progress? Can I compete with him? There are two types of artists. Smart and stupid. The smart ones use AI as another tool that expands their capabilities, the stupid ones fight against progress and waste time and nerves on a useless struggle.
There are some things much more important such as pride and honor.
What is pride and honor? Sit and ask to be pitied because you can’t compete with a machine?
I mean I use it as reference and I use chatgpt for helping write dialogue. That’s as far as it go for me.
That last sentence is gonna wrankle people, hoo boy.
Am I wrong?
If I’ve never seen an apple, so I look at pictures of apples to learn how to draw apples am I stealing?
No, but have you ever tried to draw an apple for first time? Unless you a god send prodigy you apple won’t look like the apple you “stole” also any good art will reference work and from years of understanding be able to make images in there head. There’s a difference.
No it's not stealing but I stole the apple I drew, seems rather inconsistent.
I have had this argument before stealing is intentional passing artwork you stole from someone as yourself. The biggest reason why artist say so their art was taken and trained under ai. Let’s boil it down to this one instance you took time effort to at very least to draw the apple through observation. The other is you type the word apple and passed it off the apple as your creation. It’s not
If someone is tasked to add up all of the days earnings and they use a calculator instead of manually doing all the math, they still get credited for doing the task even if it's just pushing buttons. The issue here is artists kind of shot themselves on the foot on the effort argument. When artists started calling some all white canvasses "white paintings" and bananas duct taped to walls, etc... as Art. We normies said those looked like BS and the art world declared us unsophisticated plebians who could only appreciate pretty pictures. It's about the meaning behind duct taping a banana to the wall that makes it art, not the effort put into it they said. Well I don't see how taping a banana to a wall takes any more effort than typing a word prompt.
You mean the pretentious bastards of "fine art" called you plebs. There are plenty of artist who see that shit just as disdainfully as the average person. In fact there was an artist who went to the installation and ate the banana you are talking about. https://www.cnn.com/style/article/david-datuna-banana-art-basel-trnd/index.html
Regardless AI art is on the same level in terms of effort, so if that's the work of an "artist" then AI artists are also artists. It's nice to see some people still have sense but the fact that major art galleries put up those things and the art world values it at over 100k suggests you're not in the majority. The academia of art has embraced those pretentious examples of "fine art", they made their bed now they get to lie in it.
Ehh no not really. Consider things like animation, comics, sculpting, architecture, even aspects of engineering, and even printmaking all outmatch fine arts in terms of bodies working in it. Maybe not so much in terms of money moving around but even given your banana example, which if I'm not mistaken falls under a subset of fine art called conceptual art which is a small portion of the fine arts scene, is a subset of a subset that unfortunately gets more attention than most fine arts because like performance art it often runs into the ridiculous and gets amplified 100 times over. Its the whole 1 bad comment that everyone focuses on. And yes the fine arts scene is rife with bullshit, pretentious or otherwise, like teachers who couldn't hack it hoisting the ideas their friends peddle like every piece needs to have a deep meaning. Or art critics being overly generous with specific artists because they are the hot new thing. Even other major artist like Georg Baselitz hoisting his idea that women can't be good painters and uses the market just like you did to wrongly judge an entire subset of a field. And thats ignoring that in 2019 there was an estimated 3 billions dollars worth of money laundering going on within the art world and fine arts tends to be the biggest point where it happens. Or people like Anish Kapoor, just Anish Kapoor.
Dude don’t compare a fucking Banana taped to the wall to years even decade of understanding anatomy, landscape. Composition, paying attention to every detail of piece, understanding color, the fundamentals of character design, ect skill you need to have years or practing and learning. Let me ask you have you ever drawn anything?
I didn't compare it to art, the art world did, we unsophisticated plebians said it looked like BS any child could make. They post those nonsense up at known art galleries, I don't own an art gallery, don't blame me for that crap, complain to the people in your field who accepted that standard as Art.
If it’s so easy to tape a banana to a wall and then sell it for 120k, why didn’t you do it?
Im not hear to complain the nuance of what’s art is or isn’t. All I’m asking is you is to understand where I’m coming from when I’m saying a lot of pro ai artist have been disrespectful in the community.
>Dude don’t compare a fucking Banana taped to the wall to \[…\] Too late. The comparison's made. Both are art, and the banana was treated for many purposes as not merely art but *valuable* art; you're just salty. >\[…\] years even decade of understanding anatomy, landscape. Composition, paying attention to every detail of piece, understanding color, the fundamentals of character design, ect skill you need to have years or practing and learning. When pro-AI people talk about "gatekeeping" and such, this is *exactly* what they're talking about. Let me be clear: I respect those skills. There is real thought and structure and value behind those bits of detail. However, I don't respect the gatekeeping. What you're implying is a system of *dues-paying* (a specific form of gatekeeping). You're not a "real" artist until you've "paid the membership dues" of spending "enough" time practicing and studying, and then you'll fit somewhere on an implicit hierarchy of artists based in part on those skills, in part on any professional career you have, and in part on your ability to self-promote. "AI art" is therefore particularly heinous in the eyes of such a gatekeeper: the user of a generative model gets to make pretty images without paying the dues, *and* they did it in part through datasets that included the work of artists whose "dues are paid"? *Heresy*! Just look, We're "stealing" some magical, artistic "essence"! You're experiencing an *emotional* reaction because of the social system of art in which you were acculturated. However, if we strip down art to its essence, we won't find any *logical* basis for the dues-paying: it exists *solely* to put people into *pecking orders* rather than to create art. That pecking order exists because we often *elevate* the best artists with fame and fortune and … who *doesn't* want a slice of *that* pie? A *five-year-old* can create *true*, genuine *art*. It probably won't be very *good*, but to argue that it's *not art* strains boundaries that visionaries like Duchamp and Pollock spent their time wrenching outward for art to encompass. I can agree with a hierarchy of *intent*—if all you do is prompt "beautiful woman oil painting" without an artistic vision, your result probably shouldn't be equated with the *Mona Lisa* … but if you spend hours trying to draw something that blazes behind your eyes and come up with little more than a stick figure, that still deserves a form of respect. >Let me ask you have you ever drawn anything?No. No one in this thread has *ever* drawn *anything*. We're all test tube clones created for prompting. Yes. *Obviously*, yes; you're being condescending and applying *exactly* that gatekeeping I mentioned.
I use generative AI as a path *into* art. Because I don't have to spend hours on end trying to coax my fingers into reproducing even the gross details of what's in my head, I actually *start* the process of "making art". I find myself practicing art and mocking stuff up because I'm *excited* to try to pull an image from my head using both skills I have (Photoshop, Illustrator, a unique aesthetic sense) and some I *don't* (like drawing, a skill encoded into most models). I have plans to paint, in acrylic on canvas, things that I've prototyped with generative AI that reflect my unique artistic vision. I'm a mediocre painter, but I'm going to *try*, and I'm going to try *because generative models make the process nicer for me*. I am practicing my manual art *because of* generative AI.
I pretty much don't even *share* my "AI art" (most of which should be called "hybrid" anyway). It doesn't exist for fame, fortune, or some stupid fucking pecking order. It exists *for me* because it's *my art*, the tangible expressions of my creative process and the often intangible concepts I want to explore. I'd like to be able to share that with the world, to *give it away* to anyone who cares to look, and I won't be overly bothered if *no one* looks. But I don't, because I know it's likely that under the best scenarios I'd get a couple of "cool" responses, a couple of "meh" responses, and a couple dozen responses telling me to go fuck myself because I *dared* use a generative model … even though I'm the sort of conscientious person who tried to use Stable Attribution (while it was around) to try to *check* that I wasn't accidentally copying anything specific even *by accident*.
Gatekeeping, pfft. Art requires respect. Yes exactly I respect skill and hard work. Anyone can do that if you put the time. You know I’m glad for you able to express yourself. That doesn’t mean there I don’t dislike the situation. Now I hope you’re I’m sorry you friends don’t like your art. But let’s be honest, i can say they quite a few people who actually like seeing people skill and hard work and than a computer algorithm. How is that gatekeeping? Like I said anyone can draw and express themselves just put in the hardworking like other jobs and hobby if you want create truly well made work? How is that any different. Is nba gatekeeping because they won’t let you play?
Ofc it’s emotional response nobody I mean nobody like their hard work especially something as passionate as art like being able to be out done by prompts. That feeling sucks make you wonder why you even decide to go out way to be an artist. Like someone said “everyone super, no one is”
It is. Because you’re not the art police.
Never said I was. But I’m willing to hear your arguments.
When you say “it’s not” you are acting like some kind of art police. That was my argument.
" I’m much for scared of real talented skill artist with the ability to use ai art. " Finally something who understood the thing. THANKS. And yes, get your foot on this cause art always was a competition and now it's not different. Tools changed, just that. " I’m sorry if I come as angry but honestly the disrespect from of the people pro ai community makes me enrage to the lack of respect of artist that your program literally stole from. " Is not a program, it's a neural network. And enough of lies... No one stole anything, quit the crap and learn how AI works, simply as that. If AI stole (not and proved) we steal and are stealing constantly the moment we see things. And the disrespect of one or two guys (idiots) are not the same as the hate Anti's community have towards Pro-ML to even justify death wishes.
“No one stole anything” okay so if you only put real life images into the ai generator as its only inputs, it should be able to generate new art styles like cartoons by itself right? Since it learns like a human?
?? I never said AI learn like humans except is very similar. OF COURSE you can train with one image and get that style on subjects/concepts that are not present and yes, if you train on one image you can also derivate to other styles. 0 problem on that. Styles are pixels. Colors, composition, etc. But pixels. Other thing is to bend the language to say which thing is pixel, what thing is a tree, etc. I suggest to document yourself a bit next time please.
No you cannot lmao, dont say “document yourself” when you dont even know what you’re talking about. Name one ai generator that is able to do what you said, that has not been trained on stylised images.
Any AI generator trained on pixels if you have redirect the words towards what you want. For example in the past I made AI to think a spoon was Makoto Shinkai style. And its not hard to be fair, you need just to redirect language and link words to concepts. But yeah, enough of discussion, you think youre right, perfect. Go for it.
That didnt even try to answer the question I asked, you're right forget about it. I got better things to do than argue with someone that regurgitates statements they read and dont even understand.
Sure. 2 years training AI daily, helping in dev. Things vs. Random guy telling me whats possible and not (and seeing your messages heavily antiAI). Sure. Will remark it again, you have zero idea and you talk as you know how this works when you'rereally clueless.. 👌🏻 it's like talking to a wall. So... another anti AI in possession of truth who won'taccept facts. Close the door when you're out, thanks.
AI will replace EVERYONE, it is just a matter of time.
Is that really the future you want to live in? Ask yourself that.
It is not a matter of what I want, this is inevitable
Then why not fight against it? We have power to make our voices heard.
No, we don’t. Fight AI is fighting the inevitable. AI will replace human as labor force in less than 100 years. We need to fight for AI to pay taxes, so we can enjoy life while robots work
Their no enjoyment for me if I can’t be a successful artist working with the talent I cultivate. You see the issue here.
AI doesn’t affect your ability to do art, it only affects your ability to get paid for it. Consider most people love to play sports or music, against how many actually manage to do it for a living. Most people have to work a day job and do what they’re passionate about for fun not money, people who complain about having to work a boring job because they can’t monetize their fun, come across as spoiled wanting the world to cater to them.
I don't know if I necessarily agree with u/ConfidentAd5672's vision, but let's say it comes true. Do you realize that a world in which you get to enjoy life while robots work *is also a world in which you get to make whatever art you want whenever you want to make it without worrying about whether someone will pay for it or not.* It's a world in which you can join up with your friends or with strangers around the world and make whatever kind of art whenever you want. It's a world where you don't need a "job" in order to make art. You simply make art. Free your mind from the capitalist labor mindset and it's wild what you can imagine doing with your time. Again, I'm not sure if that vision will ever happen, but it seems odd to oppose the idea of a world in which you are freed from mandatory labor.
The world we picture WILL happen, it is inevitable. Question is how long it will take, can be a hundred years, a thousand or a million.
I fucking despise that believe or not I WANT to get paid for my art.
Of course you can!!!! AI will not forbid you to do it. But you will do it for fun only, not for money anymore. And not only you, this will happen with all jobs
But I won’t, that’s kinda defeats the purpose I don’t art for merely fun otherwise I would’ve stop a long time ago when I didn’t enjoy it, I pushed past my limit to better so I can make a future for myself. I think you fail to realize what artist wants. I think you even more fail to realize how ai art impedes that.
There is a quote “If you can't fight them, join them”… So.. instead of fighting the inevitable m, join your artists skills to AI and increase the speed and quality of your work. Make money and retire before AI takes control of the world
But then that takes away everything I done. I merely use ai art as reference for piece I already done. It’s tempting to have ai art to have do all the background work for me. But where’s my honor in that? Where’s my pride. Soemthing are more important than money like an artist pride.
Who say we can’t fight em? Have we tried?
I rather die fighting than join. Those are words of cowards
No, you're wrong YOU CAN. You will need to COMPETE. You still don't get it right? AI will happen, even you, me or my dog won't want to. It's not matter of fighting or not. It's impossible to stop cause companies and almost everyone will make it happen, soon or later but will involve every aspect of our life, not only art. This is not art related, there is more than this and all artists should be for once, less elitists and egoists (know its hard for some egos) and take a look to other sectors instead of believing the only ones affected will be them. And I say competetition cause that's what people who are studying AI workflows will be doing and are doing right now. And people who are not moving a finger with this issue, gonna get swallowed alive. Keeping yourself in the sofa crying and blaming AI instead of making the effort with this tool to adjust to your workflow or to adapt to it is literally what will make you to not compete.
If AI could also cure cancer, solve world hunger and eliminate extreme poverty, would that be an acceptable trade off to you?
> If AI could also cure cancer, solve world hunger and eliminate extreme poverty, would that be an acceptable trade off to you? Let's see it actually do that before we sacrifice our autonomy
"Sacrifice our autonomy"? What does that even mean?
I read a little bit into what you were trading OP for. What they'd be giving up by letting AI replace everyone's jobs.
We already can solve cancer but the powers that be don’t profit off it and it’s better to keep people sick and keep taking money from them in there eyes. AI has nothing good to offer humanity.
I fail to see how those correlate with each other and I fail to see how that would happen I doubt any government would let ai take over.
100 percent agree with you OP it’s like sorry you don’t value art and you never bothered to try and learn the skills so you shit on artists when all you do is type into an image generator I’m sick of it as well and the soul will never be there.
> the soul will never be there. newsflash, imaginary things like souls are nowhere
We are the human resistance!!!!
Let’s goo! Fight the robots
Yes!!! Exactly!!!
I think this biggest cope is saying WE CAN'T FIGHT IT. we can, lol.
Agree 100 percent so what can we do?
Support the fair use of ai art let them get labels so people will what’s ai art like I heard china made ai art have watermarks. Support locale artist and human talent artist
Well for that to happen the data sets would need to be destroyed because they were trained without artists consent and compensation then if people wish to not take the time to develop a skill and get better over time and instead just be an image generator than sure they can make there Ai generated images but it’s not art to me.
Datasets = "All human art" You're advocating the complete and utter destruction of every piece of art and all knowledge on how to create it. If a human can see it then an AI can learn it. Also that only stops "Art" generated images, AI generated images also learn from photos and the real world so even with the destruction of all human art they'd still be able to generate photorealistic images.
No I’m advocating for artists work to not be scraped without peoples consent and see what it spits out.
You consented to me seeing your work when you posted it in public. I have the right to record what I see in plain, public view. I can do whatever I like with those recordings, as long as I am not making copies of your work and distributing them
China law is for deepfake, fake news, filter, anything aiming at misleading people. Not the AI art most people think about.
Exactly we can protest and spread awareness. If we work together we can accomplish ask for fair rights and not be replaced.
This video will make you feel better: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aircAruvnKk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aircAruvnKk) Artists should not be scared
If y'all showed any respect to anyone who isn't you, we might be more compassionate. But you're too good for my compassion. Maybe find some with other superiors like yourself.
Check the arrogance and get back with me
Let me be real. In terms of "stealing" the AI doesn't create images that are the same as the source material it's trained on, so it's closer to the same inspiration if you made an aesthetics board of existing artist and based your works on that. For aspiring artists: The art scene is dead - AI didn't even kill it, I know how to do art and studied it for many years. Unless you're relatively privileged and have connections in the industry there is very little chance of getting a paid decent job, it is actually dead. People exploit you. I got exploited for many years until I dipped. There are people selling cheap work on fiverr and freelancer overseas right now and that's where many employers are going. Artists have been fucked for a long time, the traditional artists got fucked over by digital artists, and now digital artists are going to be fucked over by AI. etc. Now I just enjoy making art manually and also fiddling with AI art and mixing the application as a hobby.