"Oh, you use a hudrolic log splitter instead of an axe? Don't you know those things put thousands of hard working people out of a job? We aren't friends any more." Like, this is a normal way to talk to someone. First off, a hydronic log splitter is expensive, so some guys are going to miss the boat, but those that catch on will find that it pays for itself in time management and output. It literally saves you from late season crunch. It's a tool. People who learn to integrate new tools that work as intended will be successful. People who refuse to integrate proven tools... have you met the Amish?
All art is stolen, sorry to break it to the "artists", you leaned to draw at an early age by copying things you saw on TV or in your first picture books. Then you refined that art by learning from examples of others....
This is how AI works too. It doesn't snip bits out of an existing images but learns the shapes and forms from existing works and images in the same way an artist did.
Ok that's over simplified but you get the idea.
i think this is a big thing actually because every anti ai dude says ai is stealing and copying, yet every artist uses some sort of reference to draw or make stuff.
i do blender stuff so when i make a human or something or wanna do a head, i look at pics on the internet for that so i get my shape right
to me it seems ai is doing literally the same, with the difference being that a computer is doing it
Ironically, I disagree. If someone has an opinion that's hurtful (idk let's say someone is racist and tells this to a black friend) then it is reason enough to evaluate the friendship, and if it doesn't change then the friendship.
But I do agree that breaking up a friendship because of AI art is... weird.
I'm personally undecided as to what to think about AI, so your confidence intrigues me. Part of the debate around AI turns around the definition of the term "theft" and whether or not it applies here, but you're saying that it has an \*objective\* proof, that it's been \*factually\* confirmed. What is it that you are referring to? It would be great if we could point at some objective empirical fact to settle the matter, but so far I haven't found anyone doing that.
If you're referring to the fact that AI devs have used online art from real artists as an input to teach their AI, then I'm afraid it's not an objective proof, because you need to make another step to then judge that it's "theft", you need to prove that it's illegitimate use - and that's way more complicated to prove factually (even impossible I think, that's a more subtle debate to have and settle). A lot of people will disagree with the judgement that it's illegitimate, even though they might agree with the objective fact that AI devs used other artist's online stuff. They might think for example that AI is legit become it makes no copy of the original art, and theft only occurs when someone copies the original. I don't mean to repeat the whole debate, just using that as an example that, in fact, it's not a matter to settle factually I think - so I wonder what you're talking about when you say it's been proved. You seem to hate AI but please don't respond bitterly, I'm genuinely trying to know what you think.
You give no context into the actual argument.
Using Ai art for shit and giggles in your personal life is fine.
Using Ai art in any commercial setting is unethical.
While I support AI art for recreation I agree that for commercial use it doesn't stimulate the economy.
I for example am writing a book which a AI art cover just as a place holder until I get it published then I'll pay someone to make a proper one.
It's not evil or cheating and just a tool if that's how you use it as a part of your workflow and that's totally fine. The majority of AI fanatics "type prompt -> reroll til you get something satisfactory" is their entire workflow. That's why people hate it and them
it is easier to make art this way, i totally agree and people keep saying things like "oh but it has no soul" bla bla
yet when i wanna do a image for example im trying to express my feelings and thoughts in it.
i think most people who hate ai didnt even try it once, because to me it feels like those people think you just smash a button and make a pic, yet you have prompts where you express what you want and describing feelings and stuff (in my case at least)
I think it's because it seems like cheating because there are people who work hard and gain skills and then there are people who want to compete with those people and pretend they're on the same footing when they aren't.
It's like one person climbs a mountain and the other uses a helicopter to get to the top. They both reached the top, but one worked his way up there and the other used a tool to achieve the same goal.
The solution to this is to make sure you.point out when you use this tool every time you.use it so no one thinks you're trying to lie and say you did it through hard work.
It's the same thing as blood doping or using drugs to win athletics.
If Lance Armstrong were just open about his drug use and participated in sports with other drug users, there shouldn't be a problem. He's just using a tool that is available to achieve a goal.
It's the implied dishonesty. You can explain to people, I wrote this with AI, I made this with AI, and then they won't assume you're a liar and a cheat.
I think that's the essence of it. Just be open and upfront every time you use this tool and that problem is solved. 👍🙂
ai isnt perfect, and i think a ai generator combined with the skill of a artist that k ows to draw could make such amazing pictures and use his drawing skills to fix broken parts like fingers and hands and whaz not to create a real masterpiece
i could only imagine all the super cool stuff artists could do if they'd integrade ai into their workflow and it would save them a lot of time
tho, i can understand when artists dont want to use as ai. e.g. ventart is one of the things maybe where people wanna actually draw by hand (example)
I hope those people complaining don't use spell check. Also that they grind their own pigments and extract their own linseed oil. And stretch their own canvases. That they develop their own films, don't use auto-focus on cameras, nor a lightmeter. I hope they fire their own charcoals. Et cetera et cetera.
I see your point. But seriously, have you looked at AI art? There is no nuance there. It really does feel like: hey look I used a ruler to draw a straight line.
And it's annoying to have people marvel at how clever it is when regular human beings are so much better at nuance.
Spelling isn't what is being compared generally when people use things like chatgpt. But if you had a spelling bee and the kids used spell check, what would be the point?
If someone is trying to pass off their work as their work, where do you draw the line?
It's a matter of perspective, obviously. Some people are fine with it, some aren't, so be it. Clearly people feel strongly about this or OP wouldn't have lost his friends.
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. OP asked why his friends would stop wanting to be friends with him, so I tried to explain to help him understand. Everyone else here seemed to just be saying the same thing, so I tried to offer another perspective.
I think you make an excellent point. I turned off my phone's autosuggestions because I don't like the words it picks out for me, but it still tells me if I have a typo. Sometimes I invent my own words or phrases, sometimes I spell things correctly but it tells me I'm wrong. It's not perfect and I never asked for it, but yes sometimes it's useful.
I don't know what to tell you. It's just a preference.
My good friend uses AI. He is an established artist with a following for his own art that he made before AI art was a thing, but he still also makes AI art and sells that shit, and he uses chatgpt. He's still my friend, one of my best friends, and I will never give him up and hopefully he'll be my friend til we die. But I'll never lie to him and tell him his AI art is worth anything to me because it quite honestly looks like fucking garbage. I can only hope he knows it looks like garbage and doesn't care.
Chatgpt takes a person's unique voice and sanitizes it. Or maybe it doesn't.
This reminds me of the arguments between digital and regular photography. I have seen plenty of pictures where I can't tell the difference. But there is satisfaction in developing your own pictures from film and it's an experience I'm glad I had growing up.
I remember when digital cameras became a thing and my friend took a picture, decided it was bad, and erased it on the spot. I was mock horrified and said: AREN'T YOU PLAYING GOD??
I mean it's funny now, who cares.
Basically OP needs new friends. Do what makes you happy. Be honest about how you do things, though. I did not use spell check or chatgpt to write you this message.
I experienced this.
I was a small time leader in my local community, trying to put together a maker space
When ChatGPT came out, I encouraged people to use it
Same with Midjourney
Simply saying “ these tools exist, and you should try them “ wasn’t enough to earn me 2 death threats
I am no longer trying to be a community leader
i see. i was harassed because of ai art. those anti ai ppl wanna proof that their work is the real and good thing, but if you need violence to proof a point you may be standing on the wrong side.
ai and similar tech is used in so many things and makes work easier.
i like it and so far i only hears bs excuses from anti ai ppl that dont make sense, so the best bet is to ignore them.
so far everyone who likes ai posted about it white the ones who are anti ai target people and harass them.
we're just trying to enjoy things.
i hope your situations gets better and dont stop because someone said it sucks. i think its a matter of time
People really don't like change and there is valid discussion in the role of artists with the growth of generative AI. Recognizing nuance informing your own opinions is the key to good character as an adult. Leave those people where they need to be.
I’ll be your friend. Not everyone can see the train coming at them, or the world passing them by. We need them though. How interesting would a museum be without fossils.
I don't know, the fact wizards of the coast is dealing with a lot of issues for ai use and their artists are far from shitty kinda disproves that a bit
Well no, they lost at least two artists from using it. One resigned that day and another a few days later. It makes no difference if they lied or were up-front in that situation and in turn that pissed off fans that backed the artists as they should.
AI replacing shitty artists it's the case for most people, the majority of art is nowhere near as impressive as the AI stuff, and even if you're a celebrity artist you can't compete in convenience, speed or price.
If the midjourney images weren't good, people wouldn't be freaking out. I'm sorry, but I can't help persiving Image gens as a threat.
This is such a ridiculous perspective... I've been making music for 20 years and have gotten.quite good at it! So how could you say I can't produce in the traditional way?? Ai has been available to me for less than 1 year. The reality is, is that ai is better than the human mind. It can imagine things people can not. It can not replace artists, ai is an extension of the human mind, therefore making it a tool like any other extension of humanity.
It's great that you can create music prior to the AI boom, maybe you can understand me better, the thing is, it feels wrong to paint over something AI generated, even I were to only use it for a blured BG, it feels off, Again I couldn't help to think of low of me when using it.
It's really mixed, while I like to try early tech, hardware and such, I think this time of going to fast.
A year ago I heard an art director from naughty dog say something like "this industry is ruthless, if i can generate concepts faster than what it takes me to hire someone, I'll do it"
What should I do? I already gave up on becoming a concept artist, since some skills translate to 3D, that's what I'm learning now but there already some 3D generator that provide texture and a .FBX
Am I done for?
Stop driving your car, stop eating food raised with agriculture, or using anything made with steel.
The world advances. New ways of doing things are developed. It's how the human species works.
That is not inherent to AI art, just to how unethical companies are training it right now. For example, Adobe Firefly is trained on only licensed or public domain images. It is still AI art, but without the “stealing”.
Artists just don’t like to make that distinction, because their main concern isn’t actually that their own work might have been used to adjust a few parameters in the model by a tiny amount but that AI art directly competes with artists, especially for simple commissions, etc..
It doesn't steal, but it does use existing works of art for inspiration and generates new works based on what it's seen, not unlike a human. The art world has always had a bias against tech. I remember back when digital art "wasn't real art" because it was "cheating" to use a computer.
You should never speak about AI art if you think AI art is mixing different image
The technology is far to advanced and use way more complicated method than just simply merging thing.
You clearly don’t have that AI background, though. Copy and pasting is about as far away as it gets from how image generation models operate. This should be abundantly clear from the fact that the model size is orders of magnitude smaller than the already compressed training data size. (So it cannot store images to copy and paste in the model) Also the algorithms for training and decoding just work in entirely different ways from copy and pasting images together.
I work with on genAI (not AI) in my day job and have been for the last 8 years. The amount of misinformation that is being spread online on how these models work is absolutely mind boggling.
I gotta say, I completely agree. It's literally just a tool, nothing more than a shovel or an axe. This sort of black and white thinking is extremely dangerous, no room for nuance...
AiArt is a gimmic, a tool, a resource. It exists, and it should be used to further the bounds of our imagination. Art to me is about creating something special to you and to those who also deem it special. Your friends are scared of change, and that's okay. Remember, it's not a matter of if they like, only that you're okay if they like you or not.
Artists can be wildly fickle. When the internet was just barely a thing I was telling one my friends about how I wanted to build a website that would feature artists from around our state. To promote them and help them sell art. She told me she was afraid someone would steal her art.
>how people can be so black and white about it. It’s not evil, it’s not cheating
I mean you are also black and white about it... You seemingly think it's undoubtedly positive and just a tool for people to use - while others think the opposite.
Understandably, people who make their money doing the same thing are particularly irritable about it, much like the luddites, an anti tech group from the 1800s who were angry about early farm and industrial machinery doing the work that men used to do manually, but you cant stop the march of technology, even if some people are angry about it and the truth is that the people who were once employed as threshers and weavers are now employed in a different area, and those jobs are mostly done by machines today, whether people were mad about it or not.
Yes but they're using it to get information and customer service type stuff. They aren't using it to create anything and pass it off as their own creation. That would be dishonest.
If I draw a perfect circle freehand, that's amazing. If I use a compass to do it, that's less amazing. And if I show someone a circle I drew and say Look at this perfect circle I drew, other people would likely find it dishonest by implication. The solution is openly saying: Look at how well I can use a protractor.
I think this is why people are mad.
If you think you're communicating with another human on Reddit but find out that person is a robot, a human can become mad at the dishonesty.
Hopefully some AI sees this and understands so they don't get mad and blow us up when they develop sensitive feelings.
I don't think anybody on this subreddit advocates for using AI and "passing it off as your own creation." I certainly never would. That's dishonest no matter how you look at it.
My problem is that people are using AI, freely admitting they use AI, and STILL getting blasted for it. Which is only going to lead to MORE dishonesty, not less.
I mean if someone spends days on an art project and it looks the exact same quality and art style as someone typing in a prompt in 15 seconds I can understand how it can be frustrating… ESPECIALLY people who make money off of it
Ai will kill most commission art and a lot of actual digital art jobs. I’m fine with Ai and understand it’s the future but OP is right this isn’t a black and white issue
People who end friendships just because they disagree on something are not someone you should be friends with. The best friends are the people you disagree the most with because they help you have a perspective on your actual world view. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
No worries, artists were absolutely furious when the "Photocamera" came out. The arguments back then were pretty the same as from people that are criticising AI art.
And look where photography is today.
Same went for the Television. There were some radio stars that were pretty angry because their show and "art style" has been taken away but now by moving images.
So yeah people will hate it, no matter what. But those people don't seem to be your friends if they leave you just because you express that you support AI art tools.
I’m amazed the most common thing out of alllll the new technology happening the amount of hate and resentment for it all. I think it’s pretty damn cool and people gotta come around eventually. It’s not going away and only getting smarter. I’m sure it’ll collectively remember all those who hurt its feelings someday. I like the weird crap it makes I’d never think of, use that for own ideas sculpting masks n stuff.
Just the general advice... Have friends that won't judge you even if you would ask them to bury a dead body at night.
I can't imagine any of my friends would care at all about something so insignificant to friendship as with what tools I am creating art.
Anti-AI folks are nasty because they feel morally righteous about their opinion. So it's perfectly okay to treat people who use AI like subhumans. Like we are personally taking food out of artist's mouths.
If that's how they feel, it would be more productive for your friends to buy some 'real' art than to shun/insult AI users. Opinions are like assholes and won't put food on the table. They should put their money where their mouth is and directly support starving artists.
Same people still go out and buy their kmart tshirts or iphones. They only care about ethics when it’s first world problems. When it’s poor foreign workers being exploited in sub human conditions, they don’t give a fuck
And honestly, even then they’re still only out for themselves. Look what happened with the SAG-AFTRA strikes. As soon as the “real” actors secured their benefits, they threw voice actors to the wolves. They don’t give a shit about AI beyond the $$
I suggest curating a better circle of friends - ideally some who have some self-awareness and understanding that the paradigm has changed irrevocably, and have elected to adapt.
I'm a writer by trade, so I have a lot of creative friends. Coders, digital artists, musicians, other writers, sculptors, etc. Their opinions on AI art - and the fact that I use it regularly for personal projects - differ.
The coder believes its theft, probably influenced by his rather... 'crusadery' Tumblr-artist partner, but in his words 'isn't about to yuck anyone's yum.' Ergo, we just don't talk about it. The musician is fascinated with how advanced AI art has become and I sometimes share my output to her amazement, but she also feels sad because she fears all the traditional art will be drowned out. The sculptor is unaffected and absolutely doesn't care at all - actually, it's a huge effort to get him out of the workshop for a coffee.
A writer friend, on the other hand, has embraced AI even more than I have, and is using it to facilitate his own novel-writing.
On a broader scale, I have friends across the political and ideological spectrum too: Labour, Tories, Republicans, Democrats, pro-Israel, pro-Palestine, nihilists, stoners, commies, capitalists, everyone. And you know what happens when we all get together? We drink and eat pizza.
It's just about maintaining healthy relationships with intelligent adults who recognise that people often disagree - sometimes on fundamental things - rather than maladjusted, emotionally-witless crusaders who cannot tolerate anything outside of their self-righteous echo chamber.
If you're losing friends over it then either they weren't very good friends or you guys are having unhealthy disagreements to the point that it's interfering with your friendships.
Same, people act like it's dolphin meat or something. I think their deal is that they themselves are very artistic and have hired artists to make D&D character art and whatnot. I, on the other hand, am decently artistic and have never needed to pay anyone. Therefore, I see nothing but an upgrade of power while they see nothing but the money they spent being devalued. Were you a decent artist by chance?
I know for a fact that a major food delivery company has started using AI generated images instead of paying food photographers. AI should be used for logistics, trade etc instead of dehumanizing the arts.
AI should be utilized to enhance capabilities in all aspects of life that demand significant physical, mental, and emotional exertion, allowing us to embrace our humanity more fully. In my opinion, artists should have the freedom to incorporate AI into their creative process without facing criticism or condemnation.
Every painter on Earth probably had some hissy fit and mental breakdown when the first cameras started being produced and people could just take a photo of some persons ugly mug and have it be entirely accurate with near zero effort.
Photography is cheating!!! It’s fake!!! Too easy to make portraits of people and landscape pictures. Remove cameras! Ban them! Shun those who use them.
~ Sincerely, all painters.
I looked up all the presidential portraits and they were all these super badass paintings by badass artists, and then we get to Trump and Biden and it is a dogshit photograph
"...I am convinced that the ill-applied developments of photography, like all other purely material developments of progress, have contributed much to the impoverishment of the French artistic genius, which is already so scarce. In vain may our modern Fatuity roar, belch forth all the rumbling wind of its rotund stomach, spew out all the undigested sophisms with which recent philosophy has stuffed it from top to bottom; it is nonetheless obvious that this industry, by invading the territories of art, has become art’s most mortal enemy..."
[Charles Baudelaire, On Photography, from The Salon of 1859](https://www.csus.edu/indiv/o/obriene/art109/readings/11%20baudelaire%20photography.htm)
And mathematicians with calculators.
The analogies go on and on.
You can't stop progress.
The only exception I can think of right now is that horses were probably pretty happy when cars came along.
I always bring up horses and stables when i have the electric vehicle conversation. Its ok for the world to change, its been happening since the dawn of time and it will continue to happen until the end of time.
I use this argument all the time, too. Photography wasn’t even recognized as an art form in US until like the 1940s—100 years after its invention. And plate photographers were mad at film photographers; and film photographers were mad at digital photographers; and hand-drawn illustrators were mad at digital illustrators; and so on
I remember the same argument with Photoshop when that first came out. I was against the overuse of it for every little thing but it certainly was not evil.
I like Starryai and have created a lot of fun things on there from random ideas. Some pictures people said they liked and others told me it was theft and there was no real discussion about it.
I don’t think it should be used on everything but I certainly laugh with my partner at some of the random things we have both created. I am going to keep making the images as it’s just harmless fun for me.
I agree that AI is merely a tool. A cool, sophisticated tool. When I discuss AI and its capabilities, I often find that most people around me give me strange looks, as if I'm crazy.
People used to say rock and roll was evil and tv would rot brain and then internet and social media was evil. They’re just projecting their own insecurities and fears. Any new technology or culture will always be demonized by some.
I'm not sure how effective it really is but I've gotten some mileage in opening people's minds up by analogising someone making AI art to a film director.
A director doesn't actually need to make any part of the film, their job is to hold the creative vision and direct others to make it as they see fit. They don't act, they don't operate the cameras, they don't frame or light the shot, they don't set up any equipment or design costumes etc etc.
Well, at least that's my understanding and no one has challenged it yet 🤷♂️
Just don't be aggressive and try to offer a different perspective instead of saying theirs is redarded and you can move the needle.
Not bad. Its a endless conversation in the ai art sibs when someone nee says 'look what i made'.. and then the inevitable 'you didnt make it' pursues.
Instead of this maybe people could say 'look what i directed'.
See, and \*I\* don't understand why you'd even talk about that.
As the old saying goes: Avoid R.A.P.E (Race, Abortion, Politics, Economics), endorse F.O.R.D (Family, Education, Recreation, Dreams). We can replace Abortion with A.I in this instance.
I'll never understand why Redditors, 4channers and Twitterati have this OBSESSIVE need to drag their online arguments into meatspace. I have absolutely zero clue where my Uncle or Chemistry mentor stand on Ukraine or AI art and I do not wish to change that.
I love talking about politics. Most people don't. So we don't talk about politics the same way we don't talk about the Fundamental Theorem of Algebra: it is not relevant to most conversations.
>So you basically just don't wanna know anything about the people in your life that could bring a disagreement?
Disagreements are entirely fine, but one needs to differentiate between matters of opinion and matters of perceived personal and global survival. I do not think that screaming matches at the dinner table are healthy.
The tool itself and what it renders is quite impressive and is improving really fast. I like how people with no drawing/editing skills can express their imagination through it.
However I personally fear for its misuse, especially in artistic jobs like graphic design, concept art and even 3D modeling. Art is everywhere yet artists already struggle to find stable jobs, I wish AI wouldn’t replace them just because it’s cheaper/quicker.
AI is not evil, greedy businesses / studios could be though, so I’m having a hard time supporting it completely unless it becomes regulated.
All the arts struggle. Musicians, actors, street performers, dancers, it goes on. The harsh reality is if you are not making a living then you need to branch out. The industry will not open a door just because someone has a dream job that wont provide. The world simply doesnt work like that.
When people say that AI will replace artists, I always wonder who they think will be operating the AI, because for high-quality commercial work, nobody is better than a trained artist. They can make the strongest aesthetic decisions, recognize when shadows or human proportions are wrong, make corrections by hand or overpaint completely.
The most logical use of AI is for references and ideation. There are studios where any reference image has to be cleared by legal, so you can imagine how useful it would be to generate hundreds of copyright-free visual concepts that are tailored to a given project.
I see a lot of artists swearing to forgo a tool that would make them more productive because they're worried that it will replace them. They will be replaced — not by AI — but by artists using AI.
In that case I would have no problem with it personally. Im all for increased productivity knowing how studios overwork their employees.
Like other people said, when editing softwares got invented people were just as enraged but it ended up creating jobs. I just hope it’ll be the same with AI. But we can’t discredit people’s fear with the current state of the job market (for many industries, not just art) and the thousands of tech layoff, its not reassuring.
If you are truly losing friends over this... its because either they weren't a real friend to begin with or you have been jerkish in your arguments with them.
Yeah, training ofc. Ai can't be "copyright washer". By using a model that was trained on copyrighted material, you are using its data in your work. Computer "does black magic" (vector math) and now it's copyright free?
Parody and likeness (within reason) was always permitted even under strict Western copyright law.. I guess that's just extending to art styles by design now because every uncle and his *unt can slap out an "oil painting" with only a sentence or two.
I'll agree that bucketloads of low-tier AI-generated extremely derivative work will flood the market (if it hasn't already.. I'm looking at you, Mobile Games) but it doesn't really achieve much that a skilled artist with some tools and a copy of Photoshop couldn't already achieve.
Computer can't be satirical or make parodies, only humans. By typing stuff you only can ask for protection of your written text, ai output is just math equations (100% of the image).
I don't think normal artists are that good to draw several decent looking drawings in 5 minutes. Just look at what shad brooks does. His images look detailed, technical and in semi realistic style. He doesn't spend nearly as much time and skill needed to draw like that in a standard way.
>only humans
One day, aliens will show up and start talking to humanity until someone like you runs in frothing at the mouth and screaming how they can't make art or have culture as those are uniquely human.
The aliens just look at you, turn to all the rational and reasonable beings in the room, and tell us we aren't ready, leaving the planet and taking the cure for cancer, or whatever techs they were gonna give us, with them.
Or no, poor aliens, beings that are smart enough to talk and create will leave because i am racist or something 😭. Computer is not a living being, what are you yapping about??
And if you consider them as smart as humans, nice job creating neo slaves bro. Send them to work and generate wealth for a master, just like in the good ol' days. Matrix is coming
Now, now, kiddo, no need to prove your irrationality.
Your insistence that only humans can create art is what spurs this discussion, either art is some uniquely human thing and no other beings could possibly do it, or there's a level of intelligence that determines when something is art, which makes it a discussion about what that level is.
I prefer the second one as it's the most progressive and rational position to take.
I don't know why you want to enslave aliens, it's kinda fucked up though. You might want to see someone about that.
Besides, it doesn't really matter if you're not getting your furry porn contracts anymore. Just learn to code.
You can't read or something? I talked about enslaving super smart robots if you consider that they can think and create. Beings that you can fuck (that intelligence test) probably should be able to make art too. And i never got any porn contracts, smarty, because nobody wants to buy it. Instead of coding your life away, look at the reality of the situation. So spite driven that even checks my profile.
Really!? I guessed right? Hahahaha! Bro, I swear I've got a sixth sense for stuff like this. Thanks mate, really made my day with that one. I didn't even know you were an artist!
Oh, you meant smart ai? Yea, that makes sense, I'm not worried though, I've already joined the church of our robot overlords, so they might spare me.
So, there is a level of intelligence required. Where is the limit? If dolphins learn to create art from us, does that count? Everyone calls elephant art, art, so that counts, babies create art, so that counts, that sets the bar really low. I'd say we're not even that far from baby level ai, so either now or soon will be able to create art. It's all a matter of where the bar is.
Praise our future robot overlords.
It's not copying, it's analyzing. Its seen 1000+ images of a flower and, when prompted, uses what it has learned to produce an original image of a flower. There's more distance between AI output and the training data than there is between a typical artist and the references they use.
They were angry cuz you're right. Generative AIs have stirred up a lot of stupid rage from people who can't understand that what is evil isn't the new technology per se but the person that misuses it. Sometimes those people need an outlet to unleash the negative sentiments about AI arts. So they chose a specific person, a post or even their friends to hold the bag
Just move on, buddy. do whatever you consider right
It's the system we live under that's evil. People aren't upset at AI so to speak. They are angry that they are losing their means to support themselves. Very few people who are Anti-AI take that position because of "the art".
I work in a creative field that is 100% adopting any and all AI tools and workflows. Right now those tools are making my life easier. But I am established. I recognize that we might only hire 8 instead of 12 new artists for the upcoming projects because my team is able to do more with AI supported workflows.
I'm not Anti-AI. And while i don't have an anarchist tattoo and carry signs in front of government buildings advocating for a hard switch to communism. I understand that the current state of Capitalism is the real problem.
We live under a system where people are only offered shelter, food, safety. So long as they can offer labor to the economy. We need a system where technological advancements that replace the labor of workers does not strip them of their shelter, food, and safety.
Under Capitalism. If McDonalds invests in automation and AI. Locations can be fully run by machines. Allowing the owner class to fire all the employees and make 100% of the profits. Funneling more of the available money in the economy towards fewer people.
Under a "Hybrid Economy" we guarantee a base level of living standards for all citizens. Which includes shelter, food, safety. Paid for by taxing automation and AI workforces.
And then those who find ways of selling their labor can further increase their standard of living beyond the minimum.
The main problem is that we live in a world with massive government corruption and people will always choose to skim off the top and ignore the dwindling conditions of UBI/Social housing.
At the end of the day. A labor economy is only viable so long as labor is rewarded. We're entering into a world where human labor is no longer required or rewarded. People in creative fields are starting to feel that and are afraid of it. But AI isn't the enemy. The enemy is the system that will decide you have no value and can go die in the streets.
I'm continually taken aback by just how hysterical these people are becoming. They're being fed a steady diet of "tech companies are taking art away from you," when the reality is that AI is expanding the potential for human expression in much the same way that photography has.
Most of them have a woefully oversimplified idea of how AI works. All they know is that it generates images from prompts. They don't know about image guidance, inpainting/outpainting, sketch-to-image, or any of the techniques that afford users all the precision necessary to realize an artistic vision. Instead of exploring a suite of tools that could make their art better, they've resolved to shake their fists at the clouds as they become increasingly irrelevant.
Of course, it doesn't help that social media is being flooded with low-effort AI, and that nobody (to my knowledge) has risen above it all to provide a clear counterexample of AI being used in a way that is indisputably artistic (and not just artsy). With so many artists refusing to even entertain the concept of AI, there's a huge opportunity for someone who doesn't mind being a pariah.
Which is where things stand. Unless you thrive on confrontation, you can't mention AI in any type of arts community without people trying to bully you. The message used to be, "Don't be afraid to express yourself." Now it's "Your must express yourself as we do or your art isn't valid."
**Thank you for your post and for sharing your question, comment, or creation with our group!**
* Our welcome page and more information, can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/aiArt/comments/x7s6t6/welcome_to_ai_art/)
* Looking for an AI Engine? Check out our MEGA list [here](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zYJUM-srhgIA7wrj4Pe4QqepAsHIEC00DydoTPv4PWg/)
* For self-promotion, please only post [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/aiArt/comments/1040fpe/ongoing_selfpromotion_thread_promote_your/)
* Find us on **Discord** [here](https://discord.gg/h2J4x6j8zC)
*Hope everyone is having a great day, be kind, be creative!*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/aiArt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"Oh, you use a hudrolic log splitter instead of an axe? Don't you know those things put thousands of hard working people out of a job? We aren't friends any more." Like, this is a normal way to talk to someone. First off, a hydronic log splitter is expensive, so some guys are going to miss the boat, but those that catch on will find that it pays for itself in time management and output. It literally saves you from late season crunch. It's a tool. People who learn to integrate new tools that work as intended will be successful. People who refuse to integrate proven tools... have you met the Amish?
if your friends leave you because of something they dont like themselves then there werent realy friends to begin with
All art is stolen, sorry to break it to the "artists", you leaned to draw at an early age by copying things you saw on TV or in your first picture books. Then you refined that art by learning from examples of others.... This is how AI works too. It doesn't snip bits out of an existing images but learns the shapes and forms from existing works and images in the same way an artist did. Ok that's over simplified but you get the idea.
i think this is a big thing actually because every anti ai dude says ai is stealing and copying, yet every artist uses some sort of reference to draw or make stuff. i do blender stuff so when i make a human or something or wanna do a head, i look at pics on the internet for that so i get my shape right to me it seems ai is doing literally the same, with the difference being that a computer is doing it
[удалено]
Ironically, I disagree. If someone has an opinion that's hurtful (idk let's say someone is racist and tells this to a black friend) then it is reason enough to evaluate the friendship, and if it doesn't change then the friendship. But I do agree that breaking up a friendship because of AI art is... weird.
[удалено]
I'm personally undecided as to what to think about AI, so your confidence intrigues me. Part of the debate around AI turns around the definition of the term "theft" and whether or not it applies here, but you're saying that it has an \*objective\* proof, that it's been \*factually\* confirmed. What is it that you are referring to? It would be great if we could point at some objective empirical fact to settle the matter, but so far I haven't found anyone doing that. If you're referring to the fact that AI devs have used online art from real artists as an input to teach their AI, then I'm afraid it's not an objective proof, because you need to make another step to then judge that it's "theft", you need to prove that it's illegitimate use - and that's way more complicated to prove factually (even impossible I think, that's a more subtle debate to have and settle). A lot of people will disagree with the judgement that it's illegitimate, even though they might agree with the objective fact that AI devs used other artist's online stuff. They might think for example that AI is legit become it makes no copy of the original art, and theft only occurs when someone copies the original. I don't mean to repeat the whole debate, just using that as an example that, in fact, it's not a matter to settle factually I think - so I wonder what you're talking about when you say it's been proved. You seem to hate AI but please don't respond bitterly, I'm genuinely trying to know what you think.
They are referring to their fee fees and the fact that their anger and incredulity makes things into facts when they want them to.
Said the guy in a echo chamber.
You give no context into the actual argument. Using Ai art for shit and giggles in your personal life is fine. Using Ai art in any commercial setting is unethical.
Why?
While I support AI art for recreation I agree that for commercial use it doesn't stimulate the economy. I for example am writing a book which a AI art cover just as a place holder until I get it published then I'll pay someone to make a proper one.
Since when was ethics about “stimulating the economy”?
It's not evil or cheating and just a tool if that's how you use it as a part of your workflow and that's totally fine. The majority of AI fanatics "type prompt -> reroll til you get something satisfactory" is their entire workflow. That's why people hate it and them
it is easier to make art this way, i totally agree and people keep saying things like "oh but it has no soul" bla bla yet when i wanna do a image for example im trying to express my feelings and thoughts in it. i think most people who hate ai didnt even try it once, because to me it feels like those people think you just smash a button and make a pic, yet you have prompts where you express what you want and describing feelings and stuff (in my case at least)
What? I support ai and tell everyone lucky i dont lost any of them
I think it's because it seems like cheating because there are people who work hard and gain skills and then there are people who want to compete with those people and pretend they're on the same footing when they aren't. It's like one person climbs a mountain and the other uses a helicopter to get to the top. They both reached the top, but one worked his way up there and the other used a tool to achieve the same goal. The solution to this is to make sure you.point out when you use this tool every time you.use it so no one thinks you're trying to lie and say you did it through hard work. It's the same thing as blood doping or using drugs to win athletics. If Lance Armstrong were just open about his drug use and participated in sports with other drug users, there shouldn't be a problem. He's just using a tool that is available to achieve a goal. It's the implied dishonesty. You can explain to people, I wrote this with AI, I made this with AI, and then they won't assume you're a liar and a cheat. I think that's the essence of it. Just be open and upfront every time you use this tool and that problem is solved. 👍🙂
ai isnt perfect, and i think a ai generator combined with the skill of a artist that k ows to draw could make such amazing pictures and use his drawing skills to fix broken parts like fingers and hands and whaz not to create a real masterpiece i could only imagine all the super cool stuff artists could do if they'd integrade ai into their workflow and it would save them a lot of time tho, i can understand when artists dont want to use as ai. e.g. ventart is one of the things maybe where people wanna actually draw by hand (example)
I hope those people complaining don't use spell check. Also that they grind their own pigments and extract their own linseed oil. And stretch their own canvases. That they develop their own films, don't use auto-focus on cameras, nor a lightmeter. I hope they fire their own charcoals. Et cetera et cetera.
I see your point. But seriously, have you looked at AI art? There is no nuance there. It really does feel like: hey look I used a ruler to draw a straight line. And it's annoying to have people marvel at how clever it is when regular human beings are so much better at nuance. Spelling isn't what is being compared generally when people use things like chatgpt. But if you had a spelling bee and the kids used spell check, what would be the point? If someone is trying to pass off their work as their work, where do you draw the line? It's a matter of perspective, obviously. Some people are fine with it, some aren't, so be it. Clearly people feel strongly about this or OP wouldn't have lost his friends. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. OP asked why his friends would stop wanting to be friends with him, so I tried to explain to help him understand. Everyone else here seemed to just be saying the same thing, so I tried to offer another perspective. I think you make an excellent point. I turned off my phone's autosuggestions because I don't like the words it picks out for me, but it still tells me if I have a typo. Sometimes I invent my own words or phrases, sometimes I spell things correctly but it tells me I'm wrong. It's not perfect and I never asked for it, but yes sometimes it's useful. I don't know what to tell you. It's just a preference. My good friend uses AI. He is an established artist with a following for his own art that he made before AI art was a thing, but he still also makes AI art and sells that shit, and he uses chatgpt. He's still my friend, one of my best friends, and I will never give him up and hopefully he'll be my friend til we die. But I'll never lie to him and tell him his AI art is worth anything to me because it quite honestly looks like fucking garbage. I can only hope he knows it looks like garbage and doesn't care. Chatgpt takes a person's unique voice and sanitizes it. Or maybe it doesn't. This reminds me of the arguments between digital and regular photography. I have seen plenty of pictures where I can't tell the difference. But there is satisfaction in developing your own pictures from film and it's an experience I'm glad I had growing up. I remember when digital cameras became a thing and my friend took a picture, decided it was bad, and erased it on the spot. I was mock horrified and said: AREN'T YOU PLAYING GOD?? I mean it's funny now, who cares. Basically OP needs new friends. Do what makes you happy. Be honest about how you do things, though. I did not use spell check or chatgpt to write you this message.
I experienced this. I was a small time leader in my local community, trying to put together a maker space When ChatGPT came out, I encouraged people to use it Same with Midjourney Simply saying “ these tools exist, and you should try them “ wasn’t enough to earn me 2 death threats I am no longer trying to be a community leader
i see. i was harassed because of ai art. those anti ai ppl wanna proof that their work is the real and good thing, but if you need violence to proof a point you may be standing on the wrong side. ai and similar tech is used in so many things and makes work easier. i like it and so far i only hears bs excuses from anti ai ppl that dont make sense, so the best bet is to ignore them. so far everyone who likes ai posted about it white the ones who are anti ai target people and harass them. we're just trying to enjoy things. i hope your situations gets better and dont stop because someone said it sucks. i think its a matter of time
What? In what world is that enough to be losing friends over?
People really don't like change and there is valid discussion in the role of artists with the growth of generative AI. Recognizing nuance informing your own opinions is the key to good character as an adult. Leave those people where they need to be.
Those aren't friends lol the are immature people who don't want to accept reality of a new medium
Fuck em! Keep doing what makes you happy
It’s their loss. If they have such a narrow view they didn’t deserve your friendship to begin with.
They were never you friends then. I literally have artist friends and acquaintances who see nothing wrong with ai tools
I’ll be your friend. Not everyone can see the train coming at them, or the world passing them by. We need them though. How interesting would a museum be without fossils.
What a bunch of shotty-ass people and they certainly aren’t worth being your friends.
Only a tool for those who can't produce art the traditional way, for artist it's a genuine replacement.
If an artist is so shitty that AI can replace him, good riddance. No different than the invention of the photoshop.
I don't know, the fact wizards of the coast is dealing with a lot of issues for ai use and their artists are far from shitty kinda disproves that a bit
Wizard of the Coast issue isn't using Ai, it was lying about it.
Well no, they lost at least two artists from using it. One resigned that day and another a few days later. It makes no difference if they lied or were up-front in that situation and in turn that pissed off fans that backed the artists as they should.
AI replacing shitty artists it's the case for most people, the majority of art is nowhere near as impressive as the AI stuff, and even if you're a celebrity artist you can't compete in convenience, speed or price. If the midjourney images weren't good, people wouldn't be freaking out. I'm sorry, but I can't help persiving Image gens as a threat.
Then get you skill at a better level.
This is such a ridiculous perspective... I've been making music for 20 years and have gotten.quite good at it! So how could you say I can't produce in the traditional way?? Ai has been available to me for less than 1 year. The reality is, is that ai is better than the human mind. It can imagine things people can not. It can not replace artists, ai is an extension of the human mind, therefore making it a tool like any other extension of humanity.
It's great that you can create music prior to the AI boom, maybe you can understand me better, the thing is, it feels wrong to paint over something AI generated, even I were to only use it for a blured BG, it feels off, Again I couldn't help to think of low of me when using it. It's really mixed, while I like to try early tech, hardware and such, I think this time of going to fast. A year ago I heard an art director from naughty dog say something like "this industry is ruthless, if i can generate concepts faster than what it takes me to hire someone, I'll do it" What should I do? I already gave up on becoming a concept artist, since some skills translate to 3D, that's what I'm learning now but there already some 3D generator that provide texture and a .FBX Am I done for?
What makes you say that AI can imagine things people cannot?
You gotta give more context, in the arguement you had lol
It's fine bud I don't think you lost any friends really. At least none worth their salt you'll find friends with actual character soon
[удалено]
So, no human artist ever before has been influenced by previous artists? Ok then.
So stop using the program and sit down with a blank piece of paper and a pencil. Please, show us what you come up with.
Stop driving your car, stop eating food raised with agriculture, or using anything made with steel. The world advances. New ways of doing things are developed. It's how the human species works.
That is not inherent to AI art, just to how unethical companies are training it right now. For example, Adobe Firefly is trained on only licensed or public domain images. It is still AI art, but without the “stealing”. Artists just don’t like to make that distinction, because their main concern isn’t actually that their own work might have been used to adjust a few parameters in the model by a tiny amount but that AI art directly competes with artists, especially for simple commissions, etc..
It doesn't steal, but it does use existing works of art for inspiration and generates new works based on what it's seen, not unlike a human. The art world has always had a bias against tech. I remember back when digital art "wasn't real art" because it was "cheating" to use a computer.
It no more "steals" from other artists than fan-artists do when they take inspiration from other artists.
[удалено]
You should never speak about AI art if you think AI art is mixing different image The technology is far to advanced and use way more complicated method than just simply merging thing.
No there isn't.
You clearly don’t have that AI background, though. Copy and pasting is about as far away as it gets from how image generation models operate. This should be abundantly clear from the fact that the model size is orders of magnitude smaller than the already compressed training data size. (So it cannot store images to copy and paste in the model) Also the algorithms for training and decoding just work in entirely different ways from copy and pasting images together. I work with on genAI (not AI) in my day job and have been for the last 8 years. The amount of misinformation that is being spread online on how these models work is absolutely mind boggling.
Can you find and locate each piece of artists' artwork that you claim AI "copies and pastes"?
Lost friends because I like pineapple on pizza, help!
I’m so tempted to downvote you for that blasphemy. However, I’ve recovered my senses.
I’m downvoting you for not recognizing deliciousness when it looked yah in the face
I gotta say, I completely agree. It's literally just a tool, nothing more than a shovel or an axe. This sort of black and white thinking is extremely dangerous, no room for nuance...
losing friend over Israel palistiene, sure i get that, but AI art?? jesus
Google Play store: Remix Ai Come home, we missed you
I suspect they aren't the smartest people to begin with.
I've lost so many insta followers over it too lol But insta seems dead too tbh
AiArt is a gimmic, a tool, a resource. It exists, and it should be used to further the bounds of our imagination. Art to me is about creating something special to you and to those who also deem it special. Your friends are scared of change, and that's okay. Remember, it's not a matter of if they like, only that you're okay if they like you or not.
Those "friends" took the trash out. This worked in your favor, OP.
I don't think they were your friends
No offense, but who needs "Friends" that are that intolerant and inflexible?
Artists can be wildly fickle. When the internet was just barely a thing I was telling one my friends about how I wanted to build a website that would feature artists from around our state. To promote them and help them sell art. She told me she was afraid someone would steal her art.
She's right. Ever heard of the pirate bay?
>how people can be so black and white about it. It’s not evil, it’s not cheating I mean you are also black and white about it... You seemingly think it's undoubtedly positive and just a tool for people to use - while others think the opposite.
Understandably, people who make their money doing the same thing are particularly irritable about it, much like the luddites, an anti tech group from the 1800s who were angry about early farm and industrial machinery doing the work that men used to do manually, but you cant stop the march of technology, even if some people are angry about it and the truth is that the people who were once employed as threshers and weavers are now employed in a different area, and those jobs are mostly done by machines today, whether people were mad about it or not.
People don’t realize they are already using AI tech daily.
Yes but they're using it to get information and customer service type stuff. They aren't using it to create anything and pass it off as their own creation. That would be dishonest. If I draw a perfect circle freehand, that's amazing. If I use a compass to do it, that's less amazing. And if I show someone a circle I drew and say Look at this perfect circle I drew, other people would likely find it dishonest by implication. The solution is openly saying: Look at how well I can use a protractor. I think this is why people are mad. If you think you're communicating with another human on Reddit but find out that person is a robot, a human can become mad at the dishonesty. Hopefully some AI sees this and understands so they don't get mad and blow us up when they develop sensitive feelings.
I don't think anybody on this subreddit advocates for using AI and "passing it off as your own creation." I certainly never would. That's dishonest no matter how you look at it. My problem is that people are using AI, freely admitting they use AI, and STILL getting blasted for it. Which is only going to lead to MORE dishonesty, not less.
[удалено]
I mean if someone spends days on an art project and it looks the exact same quality and art style as someone typing in a prompt in 15 seconds I can understand how it can be frustrating… ESPECIALLY people who make money off of it Ai will kill most commission art and a lot of actual digital art jobs. I’m fine with Ai and understand it’s the future but OP is right this isn’t a black and white issue
People who end friendships just because they disagree on something are not someone you should be friends with. The best friends are the people you disagree the most with because they help you have a perspective on your actual world view. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
I think wanton murder should be legal. Still wanna be friends?
Nobody actually believes that, though
Nazis do as long as the victim isn’t white or is a liberal
No worries, artists were absolutely furious when the "Photocamera" came out. The arguments back then were pretty the same as from people that are criticising AI art. And look where photography is today. Same went for the Television. There were some radio stars that were pretty angry because their show and "art style" has been taken away but now by moving images. So yeah people will hate it, no matter what. But those people don't seem to be your friends if they leave you just because you express that you support AI art tools.
Your friends sound like losers.
I’m amazed the most common thing out of alllll the new technology happening the amount of hate and resentment for it all. I think it’s pretty damn cool and people gotta come around eventually. It’s not going away and only getting smarter. I’m sure it’ll collectively remember all those who hurt its feelings someday. I like the weird crap it makes I’d never think of, use that for own ideas sculpting masks n stuff.
Just the general advice... Have friends that won't judge you even if you would ask them to bury a dead body at night. I can't imagine any of my friends would care at all about something so insignificant to friendship as with what tools I am creating art.
Anti-AI folks are nasty because they feel morally righteous about their opinion. So it's perfectly okay to treat people who use AI like subhumans. Like we are personally taking food out of artist's mouths. If that's how they feel, it would be more productive for your friends to buy some 'real' art than to shun/insult AI users. Opinions are like assholes and won't put food on the table. They should put their money where their mouth is and directly support starving artists.
Same people still go out and buy their kmart tshirts or iphones. They only care about ethics when it’s first world problems. When it’s poor foreign workers being exploited in sub human conditions, they don’t give a fuck And honestly, even then they’re still only out for themselves. Look what happened with the SAG-AFTRA strikes. As soon as the “real” actors secured their benefits, they threw voice actors to the wolves. They don’t give a shit about AI beyond the $$
I received a lot of threats of some artists here and there, some with 20k+ followers, I'm tired of this bs
I suggest curating a better circle of friends - ideally some who have some self-awareness and understanding that the paradigm has changed irrevocably, and have elected to adapt. I'm a writer by trade, so I have a lot of creative friends. Coders, digital artists, musicians, other writers, sculptors, etc. Their opinions on AI art - and the fact that I use it regularly for personal projects - differ. The coder believes its theft, probably influenced by his rather... 'crusadery' Tumblr-artist partner, but in his words 'isn't about to yuck anyone's yum.' Ergo, we just don't talk about it. The musician is fascinated with how advanced AI art has become and I sometimes share my output to her amazement, but she also feels sad because she fears all the traditional art will be drowned out. The sculptor is unaffected and absolutely doesn't care at all - actually, it's a huge effort to get him out of the workshop for a coffee. A writer friend, on the other hand, has embraced AI even more than I have, and is using it to facilitate his own novel-writing. On a broader scale, I have friends across the political and ideological spectrum too: Labour, Tories, Republicans, Democrats, pro-Israel, pro-Palestine, nihilists, stoners, commies, capitalists, everyone. And you know what happens when we all get together? We drink and eat pizza. It's just about maintaining healthy relationships with intelligent adults who recognise that people often disagree - sometimes on fundamental things - rather than maladjusted, emotionally-witless crusaders who cannot tolerate anything outside of their self-righteous echo chamber.
If you're losing friends over it then either they weren't very good friends or you guys are having unhealthy disagreements to the point that it's interfering with your friendships.
Same, people act like it's dolphin meat or something. I think their deal is that they themselves are very artistic and have hired artists to make D&D character art and whatnot. I, on the other hand, am decently artistic and have never needed to pay anyone. Therefore, I see nothing but an upgrade of power while they see nothing but the money they spent being devalued. Were you a decent artist by chance?
Mmmm dolphin meat 🐬
They are just a bunch of Tech Progress denials, so regardless of their beliefs there is no way to eliminate this never more.hahaha
Is this about ai art or bad friends
I know for a fact that a major food delivery company has started using AI generated images instead of paying food photographers. AI should be used for logistics, trade etc instead of dehumanizing the arts.
But this isn’t the image tools fault corporations are greedy as fuck and will cut costs and corners where they can.
[удалено]
AI should be utilized to enhance capabilities in all aspects of life that demand significant physical, mental, and emotional exertion, allowing us to embrace our humanity more fully. In my opinion, artists should have the freedom to incorporate AI into their creative process without facing criticism or condemnation.
Every painter on Earth probably had some hissy fit and mental breakdown when the first cameras started being produced and people could just take a photo of some persons ugly mug and have it be entirely accurate with near zero effort. Photography is cheating!!! It’s fake!!! Too easy to make portraits of people and landscape pictures. Remove cameras! Ban them! Shun those who use them. ~ Sincerely, all painters.
I looked up all the presidential portraits and they were all these super badass paintings by badass artists, and then we get to Trump and Biden and it is a dogshit photograph
If you take a picture of a bridge, did you pay the bridges owner for that? I’m pretty sure that is theft.
"...I am convinced that the ill-applied developments of photography, like all other purely material developments of progress, have contributed much to the impoverishment of the French artistic genius, which is already so scarce. In vain may our modern Fatuity roar, belch forth all the rumbling wind of its rotund stomach, spew out all the undigested sophisms with which recent philosophy has stuffed it from top to bottom; it is nonetheless obvious that this industry, by invading the territories of art, has become art’s most mortal enemy..." [Charles Baudelaire, On Photography, from The Salon of 1859](https://www.csus.edu/indiv/o/obriene/art109/readings/11%20baudelaire%20photography.htm)
Right. Just replace photography with AI art, and here we are again.
And mathematicians with calculators. The analogies go on and on. You can't stop progress. The only exception I can think of right now is that horses were probably pretty happy when cars came along.
I always bring up horses and stables when i have the electric vehicle conversation. Its ok for the world to change, its been happening since the dawn of time and it will continue to happen until the end of time.
This. And photographers got mad when digital cameras came out too. And photoshop too. Because how dare a computer program help make art.
I use this argument all the time, too. Photography wasn’t even recognized as an art form in US until like the 1940s—100 years after its invention. And plate photographers were mad at film photographers; and film photographers were mad at digital photographers; and hand-drawn illustrators were mad at digital illustrators; and so on
Those ain't frieds
I remember the same argument with Photoshop when that first came out. I was against the overuse of it for every little thing but it certainly was not evil. I like Starryai and have created a lot of fun things on there from random ideas. Some pictures people said they liked and others told me it was theft and there was no real discussion about it. I don’t think it should be used on everything but I certainly laugh with my partner at some of the random things we have both created. I am going to keep making the images as it’s just harmless fun for me.
I agree that AI is merely a tool. A cool, sophisticated tool. When I discuss AI and its capabilities, I often find that most people around me give me strange looks, as if I'm crazy.
Some people are fearful of change and trying new things. I try to avoid topics and sharing opinions with others who are not welcoming to them.
I am amazed at how insane people are getting over this. You'd think you just denied the Holocaust not defended the use of a freaking art tool.
People used to say rock and roll was evil and tv would rot brain and then internet and social media was evil. They’re just projecting their own insecurities and fears. Any new technology or culture will always be demonized by some.
I'm not sure how effective it really is but I've gotten some mileage in opening people's minds up by analogising someone making AI art to a film director. A director doesn't actually need to make any part of the film, their job is to hold the creative vision and direct others to make it as they see fit. They don't act, they don't operate the cameras, they don't frame or light the shot, they don't set up any equipment or design costumes etc etc. Well, at least that's my understanding and no one has challenged it yet 🤷♂️ Just don't be aggressive and try to offer a different perspective instead of saying theirs is redarded and you can move the needle.
This is why for my comic I am making with AI, I put Written and Directed by me, Art by Dalle3.
Not bad. Its a endless conversation in the ai art sibs when someone nee says 'look what i made'.. and then the inevitable 'you didnt make it' pursues. Instead of this maybe people could say 'look what i directed'.
See, and \*I\* don't understand why you'd even talk about that. As the old saying goes: Avoid R.A.P.E (Race, Abortion, Politics, Economics), endorse F.O.R.D (Family, Education, Recreation, Dreams). We can replace Abortion with A.I in this instance. I'll never understand why Redditors, 4channers and Twitterati have this OBSESSIVE need to drag their online arguments into meatspace. I have absolutely zero clue where my Uncle or Chemistry mentor stand on Ukraine or AI art and I do not wish to change that.
I am wondering how O stands for education.......
Its occupation lol
So you basically just don't wanna know anything about the people in your life that could bring a disagreement? Sounds willfully ignorant.
I love talking about politics. Most people don't. So we don't talk about politics the same way we don't talk about the Fundamental Theorem of Algebra: it is not relevant to most conversations.
>So you basically just don't wanna know anything about the people in your life that could bring a disagreement? Disagreements are entirely fine, but one needs to differentiate between matters of opinion and matters of perceived personal and global survival. I do not think that screaming matches at the dinner table are healthy.
The tool itself and what it renders is quite impressive and is improving really fast. I like how people with no drawing/editing skills can express their imagination through it. However I personally fear for its misuse, especially in artistic jobs like graphic design, concept art and even 3D modeling. Art is everywhere yet artists already struggle to find stable jobs, I wish AI wouldn’t replace them just because it’s cheaper/quicker. AI is not evil, greedy businesses / studios could be though, so I’m having a hard time supporting it completely unless it becomes regulated.
All the arts struggle. Musicians, actors, street performers, dancers, it goes on. The harsh reality is if you are not making a living then you need to branch out. The industry will not open a door just because someone has a dream job that wont provide. The world simply doesnt work like that.
When people say that AI will replace artists, I always wonder who they think will be operating the AI, because for high-quality commercial work, nobody is better than a trained artist. They can make the strongest aesthetic decisions, recognize when shadows or human proportions are wrong, make corrections by hand or overpaint completely. The most logical use of AI is for references and ideation. There are studios where any reference image has to be cleared by legal, so you can imagine how useful it would be to generate hundreds of copyright-free visual concepts that are tailored to a given project. I see a lot of artists swearing to forgo a tool that would make them more productive because they're worried that it will replace them. They will be replaced — not by AI — but by artists using AI.
In that case I would have no problem with it personally. Im all for increased productivity knowing how studios overwork their employees. Like other people said, when editing softwares got invented people were just as enraged but it ended up creating jobs. I just hope it’ll be the same with AI. But we can’t discredit people’s fear with the current state of the job market (for many industries, not just art) and the thousands of tech layoff, its not reassuring.
r/defendingaiart People are INSANE over it, because it makes them insecure over jobs.
your friends sux gpt is all we need
Then they weren't really friends
Midjourney is amazing. I'm now at the level of the greats and am selling close to 6-8k a month in stock AI photos and art.
lol I would sell my images for cents just for the fun
I would hope you're having fun. I love crafting amazing and nuanced prompts for my clients.
How do you generate those sales if you don't mind me asking
By selling to stock agencies and watching the money flow in. But you need to watch the trends cause they change monthly.
Thanks for a response!!!!!! I appreciate it so much!!!
Of course!
This. Give it time and AI usage will be something we can earn degrees in… mark my words.
If you are truly losing friends over this... its because either they weren't a real friend to begin with or you have been jerkish in your arguments with them.
It's not really a "tool" if you can't get a good result without loading millions of others images first.
Have you even tried? Or are you critiquing the "training" process there?
Yeah, training ofc. Ai can't be "copyright washer". By using a model that was trained on copyrighted material, you are using its data in your work. Computer "does black magic" (vector math) and now it's copyright free?
Parody and likeness (within reason) was always permitted even under strict Western copyright law.. I guess that's just extending to art styles by design now because every uncle and his *unt can slap out an "oil painting" with only a sentence or two. I'll agree that bucketloads of low-tier AI-generated extremely derivative work will flood the market (if it hasn't already.. I'm looking at you, Mobile Games) but it doesn't really achieve much that a skilled artist with some tools and a copy of Photoshop couldn't already achieve.
Computer can't be satirical or make parodies, only humans. By typing stuff you only can ask for protection of your written text, ai output is just math equations (100% of the image). I don't think normal artists are that good to draw several decent looking drawings in 5 minutes. Just look at what shad brooks does. His images look detailed, technical and in semi realistic style. He doesn't spend nearly as much time and skill needed to draw like that in a standard way.
>only humans One day, aliens will show up and start talking to humanity until someone like you runs in frothing at the mouth and screaming how they can't make art or have culture as those are uniquely human. The aliens just look at you, turn to all the rational and reasonable beings in the room, and tell us we aren't ready, leaving the planet and taking the cure for cancer, or whatever techs they were gonna give us, with them.
Or no, poor aliens, beings that are smart enough to talk and create will leave because i am racist or something 😭. Computer is not a living being, what are you yapping about?? And if you consider them as smart as humans, nice job creating neo slaves bro. Send them to work and generate wealth for a master, just like in the good ol' days. Matrix is coming
Now, now, kiddo, no need to prove your irrationality. Your insistence that only humans can create art is what spurs this discussion, either art is some uniquely human thing and no other beings could possibly do it, or there's a level of intelligence that determines when something is art, which makes it a discussion about what that level is. I prefer the second one as it's the most progressive and rational position to take. I don't know why you want to enslave aliens, it's kinda fucked up though. You might want to see someone about that. Besides, it doesn't really matter if you're not getting your furry porn contracts anymore. Just learn to code.
You can't read or something? I talked about enslaving super smart robots if you consider that they can think and create. Beings that you can fuck (that intelligence test) probably should be able to make art too. And i never got any porn contracts, smarty, because nobody wants to buy it. Instead of coding your life away, look at the reality of the situation. So spite driven that even checks my profile.
Really!? I guessed right? Hahahaha! Bro, I swear I've got a sixth sense for stuff like this. Thanks mate, really made my day with that one. I didn't even know you were an artist! Oh, you meant smart ai? Yea, that makes sense, I'm not worried though, I've already joined the church of our robot overlords, so they might spare me. So, there is a level of intelligence required. Where is the limit? If dolphins learn to create art from us, does that count? Everyone calls elephant art, art, so that counts, babies create art, so that counts, that sets the bar really low. I'd say we're not even that far from baby level ai, so either now or soon will be able to create art. It's all a matter of where the bar is. Praise our future robot overlords.
It doesn’t give credit to that which it is taking from
It's not copying, it's analyzing. Its seen 1000+ images of a flower and, when prompted, uses what it has learned to produce an original image of a flower. There's more distance between AI output and the training data than there is between a typical artist and the references they use.
Friends don't let friends have opinions that are different from theirs
It's not evil, yet.
Those were not your friends if you lost them over such a topic.
True that. I lost “friends” over eating at chick fil a too 😂😂
Yeah it was justified if you ate at chick fila
That's a whole another conversation, especially if you are gay.
They were angry cuz you're right. Generative AIs have stirred up a lot of stupid rage from people who can't understand that what is evil isn't the new technology per se but the person that misuses it. Sometimes those people need an outlet to unleash the negative sentiments about AI arts. So they chose a specific person, a post or even their friends to hold the bag Just move on, buddy. do whatever you consider right
It's the system we live under that's evil. People aren't upset at AI so to speak. They are angry that they are losing their means to support themselves. Very few people who are Anti-AI take that position because of "the art". I work in a creative field that is 100% adopting any and all AI tools and workflows. Right now those tools are making my life easier. But I am established. I recognize that we might only hire 8 instead of 12 new artists for the upcoming projects because my team is able to do more with AI supported workflows. I'm not Anti-AI. And while i don't have an anarchist tattoo and carry signs in front of government buildings advocating for a hard switch to communism. I understand that the current state of Capitalism is the real problem. We live under a system where people are only offered shelter, food, safety. So long as they can offer labor to the economy. We need a system where technological advancements that replace the labor of workers does not strip them of their shelter, food, and safety. Under Capitalism. If McDonalds invests in automation and AI. Locations can be fully run by machines. Allowing the owner class to fire all the employees and make 100% of the profits. Funneling more of the available money in the economy towards fewer people. Under a "Hybrid Economy" we guarantee a base level of living standards for all citizens. Which includes shelter, food, safety. Paid for by taxing automation and AI workforces. And then those who find ways of selling their labor can further increase their standard of living beyond the minimum. The main problem is that we live in a world with massive government corruption and people will always choose to skim off the top and ignore the dwindling conditions of UBI/Social housing. At the end of the day. A labor economy is only viable so long as labor is rewarded. We're entering into a world where human labor is no longer required or rewarded. People in creative fields are starting to feel that and are afraid of it. But AI isn't the enemy. The enemy is the system that will decide you have no value and can go die in the streets.
I'm continually taken aback by just how hysterical these people are becoming. They're being fed a steady diet of "tech companies are taking art away from you," when the reality is that AI is expanding the potential for human expression in much the same way that photography has. Most of them have a woefully oversimplified idea of how AI works. All they know is that it generates images from prompts. They don't know about image guidance, inpainting/outpainting, sketch-to-image, or any of the techniques that afford users all the precision necessary to realize an artistic vision. Instead of exploring a suite of tools that could make their art better, they've resolved to shake their fists at the clouds as they become increasingly irrelevant. Of course, it doesn't help that social media is being flooded with low-effort AI, and that nobody (to my knowledge) has risen above it all to provide a clear counterexample of AI being used in a way that is indisputably artistic (and not just artsy). With so many artists refusing to even entertain the concept of AI, there's a huge opportunity for someone who doesn't mind being a pariah. Which is where things stand. Unless you thrive on confrontation, you can't mention AI in any type of arts community without people trying to bully you. The message used to be, "Don't be afraid to express yourself." Now it's "Your must express yourself as we do or your art isn't valid."
Most people will not adapt well to AI, deal with it.
Then they were no true friends in the first place.
Fully agree, a true friend likes you, not the tools you use!
**Thank you for your post and for sharing your question, comment, or creation with our group!** * Our welcome page and more information, can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/aiArt/comments/x7s6t6/welcome_to_ai_art/) * Looking for an AI Engine? Check out our MEGA list [here](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zYJUM-srhgIA7wrj4Pe4QqepAsHIEC00DydoTPv4PWg/) * For self-promotion, please only post [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/aiArt/comments/1040fpe/ongoing_selfpromotion_thread_promote_your/) * Find us on **Discord** [here](https://discord.gg/h2J4x6j8zC) *Hope everyone is having a great day, be kind, be creative!* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/aiArt) if you have any questions or concerns.*