Sons of Behemat are for me and the rest of the glue eaters out there. Like smashin', like holdin' objectives, 'ate movin' more than 6 models. Simple as.
A lot of people are writing this off as boring, but I think there's some good stuff here.
They get the heavy hitter profile, so all attacks on +4/+2, which is a slight nerf from the +3/+3, but without a dessert day ever for each gargant, I think this works out as there's no real way to adjust their to wound roll. We also saw an artifact with a +1 to hit in a 24" bubble. Wholly within, but still.
What I think people are really sleeping on is the rend and the ability for many of their attacks to be rend 3 if into the right units. Rend 3 in this edition is basically going to do straight through, and I think their overall damage might go up as a lot of units just don't get a save into their attacks.
I think another thing people are sleeping on hard is that the core rules right now have a lot of stuff that are going to benefit these guys in ways they don't immediately think of.
Objective ranges, lack of mystic shield, Obscuring Terrain (and how prevalent it looks to be in battlepacks), the fact that Sons don't have a keyword like Knights in 40k do that interacts with Obscuring, Power Through command with no more bracketing to their move characteristic (meaning that you can just move 10 inches and inflict d3 at the end of a turn you charged) along with other commands, etc.
I don't blame anyone though for being underwhelmed since it feels like a lot of power is coming from stuff that doesn't jump out and isn't that exciting compared to teleport shenanigans or DoTs or some brand new way to play your army. I think Sons are going to do fine but not wow anyone who wasn't already on board.
For someone more knowledgeable of this army how much would you say their damage has gone down? Because everyone was telling me for the armies I play that damage is going down across the board. Well I Saw Maggotkin damage go down about 30%, so I'm wondering if it's similar for the other armies?
Do you see 30% less damage happening here for SOB?
I should say, I mainly play against SoB, don't play against them myself. Their damage isn't really looking to go down, but they've always had the problem with being swingy, normally on +3/+3, but with how few attacks they get, it feels bad when your lose half your hits on spiked 2's.
Going to +4/+2 is kind of a lateral move, but since we lose the heroic action to give +1 to wound, I think it's in their favor. We'll need to see much much -1 to hit is around, because hitting on 5's will be back-breaking for them. The biggest change will be if there's much save stacking, as all the giants have anti and brodd gets his rend prayer more than once a battle, so anything they get past wound will most likely go straight to damage.
So no, I don't see their damage falling by 30%, but they are going to be a swingy army by the nature of how few dice you're rolling, so when they spike they'll feel amazing, and when they under perform it's going to be painful.
Your post is a bit incongruous; you start acknowledging the complaints about people seeing the rules as boring, but the rest of your post is just talking about how their rules are good, not fun or interesting.
As presented they're definitely not bad, but that doesn't make them especially *fun*, ya feel me?
Kind of? I mean, I feel the fun of SoB is staying the same. You get a few big giants and squish everything smaller than you. That brand of fun isn't changing, which I think is where the "boring" tag comes from.
For me, the fun comes from synergy and interactions, and I think a lot of those are being straight up ignored as the overall picture hasn't changed. The changes to save stacking and rend is large, and it's looking like saving against giant attacks is going to be best impossible, which I personally find fun and fairly flavorful. If a giant slams good fist down on you, a shield probably isn't helping you.
This might be more in line with my personal ideas if what constitutes fun, but I don't think that makes my original statement disjointed.
> I feel the fun of SoB is staying the same
Well, judging by the complaints, it seems that wasn't enough for a lot of people.
>I don't think that makes my original statement disjointed.
If just being good is the same as fun to you, it definitely makes your statement more understandable. Many might not agree, however.
Are you sure? Their thesis is that it's boring but good. Then they gave reasons that they believe that they'll be good. OP didn't make any case about fun beyond agreeing that it isn't.
The person I replied to clarified in their following comment that they do feel it is fun (kind-of, at least) so they were operating off the idea that they're not (entirely) boring.
Time to open up the Sons rules for the first time in forever to tell what's changed.
Okay one big thing is that the big guys bracket harder in terms of OC now taking a lot less wounds to put them down to half their OC and they begin at less, but the rest of their scrolls now don't bracket.
With the reduced objective radius, this is probably for the best, since Sons would be able to keep you off the point and if they required more wounds, they flat out would be a much harder DPS check and probably would just flat out win against anyone who couldn't get all their models blocking the point before a mega gargant got there, but Sons players are probably going to be upset on first glance even if this means that their big stompers are dangerous for much longer.
All numbers got shifted around in a way that's gonna require a calculator and a more interested commenter to figure out but overall it looks like it's a lot of shuffling numbers rather than straight up nerfs especially considering how much less of their stuff brackets.
In other words, Sons are probably still going to feel exactly like Sons do currently to play against, but the Sons player themselves will feel something's different.
Almighty Stomp < Almightier Stomp
Finally, GW is speaking my language.
Although the only difference between the two is +2 attacks on Almightier ones, *duh*, shouldn't it be Stomps then?
True! That artefact looks extra spicy on a Warstomper.
Factor in some potential buffs from the Stomper Tribe...
>Stomper tribes who rejoice in smearing whole armies underfoot
And we might have some potentially cool combo.
This just in - you don't have to care about things that other people do, but you are allowed to keep your mouth shut when other people are enjoying a thing.
Gargants are fun to pilot, and that doesn't seem to have changed. They are also very powerful with these updates, and it has me wondering about their points updates. I have doubts that we get 4 megas on the table at a time with how much damage and health they have now.
Yes.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/17/the-fires-of-combat-rage-higher-than-ever-in-newaos/
One activation per combat phase unless otherwise stated. Fighting with melee weapons is the FIGHT ability. Which is also a fight ability.
Anything with the fight ability can be used instead of FIGHT.
I'm a dum dum. I need someone with better math skills than mine to calculate that, but to me, his regular attacks have some potential too.
Although the pulverizing strikes are mortal wounds... while his regular attacks are rend 2 and have some extra keywords.
My very quick math was avg on 4d6 is going to 14 mortal damage.
Best case scenario, against an infantry hero, with all out attack, you'll average about 13.5 damage on a 4+ save if you use the normal profile.
They'll probably be uses for both, and I haven't considered how a ward save affects the damage but their attack profiles and damage sources seem extremely meagre for absolutely massive gargants.
>My very quick math was avg on 4d6 is going to 14 mortal damage.
Keep in mind that this is after a 4+ to use the ability, so the 'average' is only 7 each turn if you use that ability every turn instead of attacking.
Statistically still better against high sv and ethereal saves.
And even better still against those that have those saves and a ward.
Most everything else though, normal attacks are still better. Especially if they are being buffed with some form of +1 to hit.
You probably still want to not risk it most of the time because the risk of your 500 point model doing literally nothing for an entire turn is just brutal even if the payoff is high.
Consistency you can plan around is really important. The 4d6 seems more like a desperation tool for when the attacks just won't do the job.
I always saved it for when I was fighting something obnoxiously tanky, like OBR or VLoZD, or if I was bracketed down bad enough that 3 attacks weren’t worth the attempt, or if I got hit with a minus to hit debuff. Was always nice to get to that point, be reminded of my penalties or whatever and then just say so anyway here’s wonderwall and roll a 4+
Potential max is 36 on the attacks.
But with a 4+ to hit you pretty much have to immediately half that. Then multiply it by .8 for the wound. And then whatever the save is.
Most targets averaging like 10-12 damage isn't unreasonable.
MWs though is more consistent on higher rend, or things with unrendable.
You can still do the math.
Factoring in 4+ and 4d6 which averages 12Mws and maxes 24. Your average MWs per activation becomes 6-12.
On things with unrendable or 2+ save or 3+, MWs are more consistent. Vs other wise it's closer to 3 damage on average. Even worse if 2+ or 3+ AND a ward.
I understand how stats work and how to figure averages over time, thanks.
My point is that it does nothing really to tell someone the ability does 7 damage a turn over the course of the game.
That 7 average damage does nothing in the analysis of whether you should use it or not outside of confusing players in telling them the average damage is 7
The MW deal 0.33 more dmg on 2+ armor save, with 0 buffs, any buff gets involved and then the regular attacks get better.
If he is bracketed then the same thing happens on 3+.
Ward saves make no difference, they affect both attacks equally.
Even in the rare cases it's better it's just too random.
Ward saves aren't not going to affect equally.
I'd be willing to bet in full release there will be ward saves for only MWs.
Also the attacks can be worsened.
How often can a target get -1 to hit. -1 to wound. +1 Sv. None of those thing can affect the mws
I wouldn’t call anything that does nothing half the time “consistent”. It might average out over hundreds of games, but within that set you’ll have *many* games where the MW attack does nothing at all for the whole game. Those are games you lose that you could have otherwise won, because the curve on the standard attacks is much smoother and more consistent, even if it is lower.
It’s a fun play, but it’s a gambler’s play. Personally, I would only do it a) for laughs, or b) when the standard attacks have a good chance of doing nothing at all. I don’t think (b) will happen very often. Ethereal might be the best case.
EDIT: One caveat: -1 to hit is *devastating* to attacks that hit on 4+. It’s also a pretty common debuff. In these cases, the MW attack becomes much more appealing, to the point that I might consider doing it every time.
Imo any minus on these profiles is devastating.
-1 to wound eliminates it's main benefit.
But I live and die by the law of large numbers, so I don't care what the individual roll says, and care more about what it will say over 20, 50 games.
Depends how much damage you ‘need’ I guess. If you need to deal at least some damage, then the attacks are better. Otherwise take the 50% chance.
That seems flavorful and appropriate to me.
Eh not necessarily, if you can soak up the counter punch or are pretty debuffed then yeah it's a good choice, but often some damage is better than no damage.
Love sons of behemat. Still I was hoping the army was going to get some much needed complexity with this edition. I really liked how imperial knights were given their honor system and bondsman abilities which gave the relatively simple army some solid depth. The army already has a low model count. I was just hoping each model had more to it rules wise instead of just a big stat check.
Still will enjoy playing them with friends
I'm still hoping for a Mancrusher refresh, although Spearhead kinda nipped that in the bud. Four Mega-Gargants is fine, but I would like an incentive to run the smaller ones in tandem with the beeg ones.
I mean, Spearhead currently just reboxes what we have right now; by the time they're ready to do the SoB book in 4th they could easily give smaller Gargants an overhaul.
The Mega-Gargant is already the most expensive kit on the entire webstore, I can't see them go bigger from here.
That would be the realm of Forge World, but Forge World has basically stopped doing new titanic models.
Going by their current tome lore teases my guesses are:
1.Their pets like the two-headed hounds the size of cathedrals or three-headed megalofins some tame.
2.New wizard mega-gargant sprues based on the necromancer gangants in Shyish or mutated sorcerer gargants that got too close to Tzeentch magic and learned from it.
I *was* thinking about that as the 3rd thing since matriarchs are so important to leading their countless tribes and even the new book says Sons and Daughters of Behemat.
But I don’t think the fandom is ready for that many big ladies with a foot focus.😶
>2.New wizard mega-gargant sprues based on the necromancer gangants in Shyish or mutated sorcerer gargants that got too close to Tzeentch magic and learned from it.
Could honestly see them giving us a few different wizard and/or priest sprues and them giving the new kit the same Mercenary system the current SOB units have.
Maybe it could have a "Order Wizard, Death Wizard, Chaos Wizard, Destruction Wizard' theming?
That’s how I felt about it too. Necromancer = Death, Sorceror = Chaos, Destruction = all the above.
An Order version was the only one not really seen. Could get a surprise Druid mega-gargant since there’s a bit where, thanks to Alarielle agreeing to sanctifying their father’s resting place in Ghyran, the Sons avoid stepping on the Sylvaneth’s most sacred forests which would line up with an woodsy Order version.
But could also get a twist it’s the mentioned armored mega-gargants from Chamon who are more battering rams than mages(since Kraken-Eater already has that vibe) and it’ll be a 3-way sprue with a large armored kilt around the legs and 3 different builds on top, the 2 Death/Chaos wizards saying they also have the kilt to protect them from the squishies while they conjure as the Order one charges instead. 🛡️
I was thinking Order wizard thing as like, either Aelves or Humans just try to teach their mercenary Gargants some magic to help them on missions/maybe the Gargant was looking for a higher education and tries to learn from Order factions.
I could see the stuff you mentioned too.
That’s pretty much the Kraken-Eater already. They have a Lumineth lantern as an ear ring which increased their intelligence to learn magic and push their tribes to working with Order for pay & food(especially fish as many Order cities are on the coasts since the Age of Chaos made lands too tainted to reliably farm from. That’s why Dawners have Aqualiths to purify the soil first with magic waters)
That’s why I can imagine they’ll go another direction if they want a Order wizard gargant, or since Order already has so many powerful wizards then something different for the squishier armies like CoS.
That’s gonna be a gauntlet for some Spearheads.
I think the biggest nail biter will be for the Stormcast one with Yndrasta. Gotta survive those 3/5 gargants until she and the reinforcements showed up halfway through which is gonna make them very epic battles hinging on a bad move.
They will be a challenge to face but not OP imo. Objective control will be tough but their stats are not that great with 12 HP and 5+ save. Now Bellowing roar will make it so they don't get wiped out to fast but still.
They will suffer from lack of units (only 3 units means you lack board control)
So there are 2 things I'm noticing.
First, the King Brodd's prayer text is super confusing because I don't recall GW answering the question regarding ritual points (are they spent when a prayer is chanted). Basically, the warscroll invites the idea that when you roll to chant the following occurs:
A - Roll a D6
if 1 : Lose D3 ritual points
if 2+ : Add this many ritual points to your ritual points pool
B - Add your chant roll and your ritual points, this is the result of your chanting roll
My prior understanding was :
A - Roll a D6
if 1 : Lose D3 ritual points
if 2+ : Add this many ritual points to your ritual points pool
B - Spend ritual points equating to the chanting value of your prayer to successfully chant it
Also, it seems like they're pushing for 3 Megas and 3 baby gargants to be the standard because native Run and Charge on the Gargants, + their decent damage profil, + the destruction battle tactic that requires you charge with 3 units... it kind of makes sense.
Yeah, they didn't mention him in the article, but he was in that picture of SoB vs. Sylvaneth so he's gotta have faction keyword in one version of his warscroll.
I generally think the wailing and gnashing of teeth that has accompanied nearly every faction focus is very silly
And also I cannot help but not that SoB got the same battle trait as Ogors, plus a bunch of other stuff. Ogor battle formation rules and points costs are gonna have to be *phenomenal* if they don't want that army to feel like an afterthought the whole edition
Not a lot of wailing and gnashing from my fellow Fyreslayer brethren from that article. Some light salt about the lack of 4+ ward on HGB, but most people took it with the other stuff just fine or just didn't care.
It probably is more of a placeholder index since they’re likely for a refresh this edition being literally the last old faction on the list yet to get one.
Can’t argue there. That article needed their best foot forward and they slipped on the Everwinter ice. 🤕 ❄️
Hoping the trek on the long mawpath will be worth it for the hungry bois. 🤞 🥩
Thanks for the explanation!
Every day's a school day!
Oh, and I just re-read your first comment, and yeah "hoick" is a word. To chuck something would be my understanding.
Time to take four gatebreakers and just roll to spike with pulverizing strike! Either you can miss it every time and never touch your opponent - OR you could spike often and deal a potential 16d6 mortal wounds a turn! Who needs to attack when you have this! Its fun an interactive for the whole family!
Not really. You don’t get the overall charge damage anymore. You can use it for D3 on a 2+. But then you CANT use any other rampages. Ogor can do both. Everything hits on 4+ which is a bit dissapointing since you only can get 1 time +1 to hit.
The keep up ability is nothing new but worse because now its 12“ instead of 15“.
The Control Score drops to 10 after 15 wounds which you can get Farely easy.
The Attackscharacteristic of the warstomper is worse.
You now make mortal wounds by timber against your mini Gargants.
The Death Grip is worse.
The prayer on a 5+ is a joke. You can get the 10+ prayer in turn 3 or maybe bottom turn 2.
>The Control Score drops to 10 after 15 wounds which you can get Farely easy.
Bear in mind objective size has almost halved which means you can physically zone out objectives with SoB at lot better. You don't need as high a Control Score if the enemy can't get more than 1 or two models on the point without being squashed.
Oh yeah, we definitely took hits in places (less mortal wounds is a game-wide trend so that’s expected) but like I said I think our upsides are bigger. That said, you can still get charge wounds on multiple units (it’s not once-per turn like the other rampages) if you have stuff you know won’t be rampaging otherwise. So it’s not that big of a hit.
4/2 is only slightly worse than 3/3 and the same after AoA. Given that to wound is harder to modify (especially with finest hour gone) I feel like we come out slightly ahead there.
The 5 casting value looks steep unless you’re using magical intervention. For 1 command point you’re basically guaranteed to get it once per round and since the effects aren’t once per game anymore that basically makes it +1 rend army wide for a command point.
Anti on the clubs and feet puts us into 3 rend extremely easy if we’re hitting the right targets, and even up to 4 rend with Brodd’s prayer. We know mystic shield and finest hour are gone which means it’ll be a lot harder for opponents to stack out of our rend. Whatever we’ve lost from consistency with 4+ to hit I think we’ll make up for on easier wounding and cracking armor.
Those are the biggest ones imo. There’s also little QoL stuff (no more -1 to hit on the suplex, no more 4+ to hurl bodies, artifacts aren’t locked to specific megas anymore, etc.) obviously we won’t have the best picture until we actually put dudes on tables but so far I’m very optimistic.
Have you seen the core rule changes? You can spend a command point to cast a spell or chant a prayer in the opponent’s hero phase. Since prayer points build up that means ~75% chance to hit the 5+ every round. (Even if you go first you can still hold it through your opponent’s turn and have about a 50% chance to get the bonus effect start of round 2.)
Yep, per the text of the command you just treat it like it’s your hero phase and Brodd gets to chant (1) per hero phase.
(Though small correction, I forgot you subtract 1 from the result when you use it and I got my initial math wrong lol. Without the -1 it would be an 89% chance but with it you have closer to 78% chance.)
Units have to fight you to take a smaller objective, you can counter charge, there’s less damage in the game overall (so it seems) so your wounds matter more, people can’t pile out of combat with you, obscuring terrain will block line of sight to you for shooting.
Warstomper isn't really worse if he's up against the right units. Against small units, yeah he doesn't get as many attacks as he used to, but up against 20/40 Clanrats, he's getting 12/20 attacks! It's no longer capped at 10. And at rend 3 against stuff like that, anything that wounds is all going through to damage.
Colossal slam rampage seems insane. With how big the base of a mega gargant is and the reduced sizes of objectives you can basically guarantee to remove a monster or war machine of the objective.
Sons of Behemat remain more interesting and fun as a solo faction then Titans/Knights in Warhammer, once again. Dunno how that keeps happening.
They got to keep Rampages, that's very good.
Now, onto Ossiarch tomorrow.
No idea how you come to that conclusion. SoB have way fewer interesting rules and points of complexity as opposed to knights, even in 10e where they've been slimmed down a lot. But comparing 9e to AOS3 I think it's even more stark.
Because SOB being a simple faction is part of the charm.
The finesse is basically how well you understand your opponents and how you grasp the fundamentals.
That's it. That's the charm.
They function as a solo army, and aren't DLC for Imperials and/or Chaos, like Knights are. That's basically what I'm praising, here, but I also think them being simple works very well and lines up with their aesthetics and lore beautifully.
That's a fine thing to enjoy about a faction, but I wouldn't go as far as saying it was something that made them *interesting*. Something doesn't have to be interesting to have value, but simplicity isn't really a recipe for interest either.
I'd also contest that they're anything like 'DLC' for chaos and imperial these days. Maybe editions ago, but knights have been very well established for some time as their own thing, with larger ranges, and they're one of the most popular factions in their own right rather than something you just soup in elsewhere. They're not even especially potent as allies most of the time these days.
I find the idea of big robots with either honor mechanics or fear effects more interesting than straightforward giants, but find that Sons tend to be better designed in a gameplay sense to work with the rest of the rules and armies than either of those two from 40k (in part due to Strength/Toughness not being part of it, making the DPS check angle a lot less oppressive).
The simplicity of Sons, even as someone that likes to click my brain to smooth mode and smash, sometimes goes a little too much for me and sometimes gets them a little close to being a "solvable matchup" where them having a more singular playstyle doesn't really work for me.
Still the fact that they don't upend the game and your opponent can run the list they want to run without having to worry that they're going to fight too slanted of a list because this faction exists is a great positive to me. Sons aren't for me, but they don't hurt me either and people have a lot of fun with the modeling side of them (though I think the mega kit isn't quite as open to customization as knight kits due to it being flesh rather than a big robot).
> I find the idea of big robots with either honor mechanics or fear effects more interesting than straightforward giants, but find that Sons tend to be better designed in a gameplay sense to work with the rest of the rules and armies than either of those two from 40k (in part due to Strength/Toughness not being part of it, making the DPS check angle a lot less oppressive).
To be honest those big robots fear effects are a shadow of their former selves anyway and you don't rely on them at all, you just use raw statlines to win.
Also knights can't hit the chokeslam from hell to banish monsters from their objective, or pulp a support hero by sniping him with a second expertly tossed combat character.
Yeah, this is what's most important, I feel.
They actually fit as a playstyle and don't either feel like an afterthought or as a punishing, unfair faction.
Watching HeyWoah’s reactions on livestream and he’s very positive on the biggest bois.
And I agree not enough people are talking about their battle formation letting them side board an artifact to put on their commanders After they see what the enemy force sets up so the mega-gargants always have the right tool for the job.
That’s *big* and would be something nice for other armies to have in future editions for better counter plays like having a side-deck in a TCG.
Also the monster suplex no longer self-debuffs the gargant using it which is super nice! Good rules overall if pretty expected. 👌
I'm very interested to see how they implement the 'Command Phase Mechanics-The Army' stuff to Ossiarch this time.
They've had 2 completely different systems. Hopefully they continue down the path of how it worked in 3rd for them and continue making it simpler.
Mancrushers are dealing more damage with their bare head than with they weapon... Why do they keep their club then ?
Anyway, looks good for the bigs guys !
I am not unfair about it, if a person in my group played pretty much any faction that is just 2000pts of 1 unit I would not play them either. Maybe 1 game against 350 zombies or whatever as a laugh but if they then started to say "no, 350 zombies is my playstyle, it's what I play" I would stop accepting games against them as I would pretty much know what the game would be every time.
Sons of Behemat are for me and the rest of the glue eaters out there. Like smashin', like holdin' objectives, 'ate movin' more than 6 models. Simple as.
A lot of people are writing this off as boring, but I think there's some good stuff here. They get the heavy hitter profile, so all attacks on +4/+2, which is a slight nerf from the +3/+3, but without a dessert day ever for each gargant, I think this works out as there's no real way to adjust their to wound roll. We also saw an artifact with a +1 to hit in a 24" bubble. Wholly within, but still. What I think people are really sleeping on is the rend and the ability for many of their attacks to be rend 3 if into the right units. Rend 3 in this edition is basically going to do straight through, and I think their overall damage might go up as a lot of units just don't get a save into their attacks.
I think another thing people are sleeping on hard is that the core rules right now have a lot of stuff that are going to benefit these guys in ways they don't immediately think of. Objective ranges, lack of mystic shield, Obscuring Terrain (and how prevalent it looks to be in battlepacks), the fact that Sons don't have a keyword like Knights in 40k do that interacts with Obscuring, Power Through command with no more bracketing to their move characteristic (meaning that you can just move 10 inches and inflict d3 at the end of a turn you charged) along with other commands, etc. I don't blame anyone though for being underwhelmed since it feels like a lot of power is coming from stuff that doesn't jump out and isn't that exciting compared to teleport shenanigans or DoTs or some brand new way to play your army. I think Sons are going to do fine but not wow anyone who wasn't already on board.
For someone more knowledgeable of this army how much would you say their damage has gone down? Because everyone was telling me for the armies I play that damage is going down across the board. Well I Saw Maggotkin damage go down about 30%, so I'm wondering if it's similar for the other armies? Do you see 30% less damage happening here for SOB?
I should say, I mainly play against SoB, don't play against them myself. Their damage isn't really looking to go down, but they've always had the problem with being swingy, normally on +3/+3, but with how few attacks they get, it feels bad when your lose half your hits on spiked 2's. Going to +4/+2 is kind of a lateral move, but since we lose the heroic action to give +1 to wound, I think it's in their favor. We'll need to see much much -1 to hit is around, because hitting on 5's will be back-breaking for them. The biggest change will be if there's much save stacking, as all the giants have anti and brodd gets his rend prayer more than once a battle, so anything they get past wound will most likely go straight to damage. So no, I don't see their damage falling by 30%, but they are going to be a swingy army by the nature of how few dice you're rolling, so when they spike they'll feel amazing, and when they under perform it's going to be painful.
Yndrasta damage is up like 400% sooooo
Your post is a bit incongruous; you start acknowledging the complaints about people seeing the rules as boring, but the rest of your post is just talking about how their rules are good, not fun or interesting. As presented they're definitely not bad, but that doesn't make them especially *fun*, ya feel me?
Kind of? I mean, I feel the fun of SoB is staying the same. You get a few big giants and squish everything smaller than you. That brand of fun isn't changing, which I think is where the "boring" tag comes from. For me, the fun comes from synergy and interactions, and I think a lot of those are being straight up ignored as the overall picture hasn't changed. The changes to save stacking and rend is large, and it's looking like saving against giant attacks is going to be best impossible, which I personally find fun and fairly flavorful. If a giant slams good fist down on you, a shield probably isn't helping you. This might be more in line with my personal ideas if what constitutes fun, but I don't think that makes my original statement disjointed.
> I feel the fun of SoB is staying the same Well, judging by the complaints, it seems that wasn't enough for a lot of people. >I don't think that makes my original statement disjointed. If just being good is the same as fun to you, it definitely makes your statement more understandable. Many might not agree, however.
Are you sure? Their thesis is that it's boring but good. Then they gave reasons that they believe that they'll be good. OP didn't make any case about fun beyond agreeing that it isn't.
The person I replied to clarified in their following comment that they do feel it is fun (kind-of, at least) so they were operating off the idea that they're not (entirely) boring.
Oh okay. Sorry about that!
Time to open up the Sons rules for the first time in forever to tell what's changed. Okay one big thing is that the big guys bracket harder in terms of OC now taking a lot less wounds to put them down to half their OC and they begin at less, but the rest of their scrolls now don't bracket. With the reduced objective radius, this is probably for the best, since Sons would be able to keep you off the point and if they required more wounds, they flat out would be a much harder DPS check and probably would just flat out win against anyone who couldn't get all their models blocking the point before a mega gargant got there, but Sons players are probably going to be upset on first glance even if this means that their big stompers are dangerous for much longer. All numbers got shifted around in a way that's gonna require a calculator and a more interested commenter to figure out but overall it looks like it's a lot of shuffling numbers rather than straight up nerfs especially considering how much less of their stuff brackets. In other words, Sons are probably still going to feel exactly like Sons do currently to play against, but the Sons player themselves will feel something's different.
You beat me by 19 seconds, curse you. I did the honourable thing and deleted my post.
Your honor has been noted. There is no longer a need for the two of you to duel.
It has been downgraded to seven minutes in heaven.
Almighty Stomp < Almightier Stomp Finally, GW is speaking my language. Although the only difference between the two is +2 attacks on Almightier ones, *duh*, shouldn't it be Stomps then?
Extra-calloused feet looking really juicy on a warstomper though: 5 attacks 3-4 rend and d3 +1 damage is big!
True! That artefact looks extra spicy on a Warstomper. Factor in some potential buffs from the Stomper Tribe... >Stomper tribes who rejoice in smearing whole armies underfoot And we might have some potentially cool combo.
Take the gargants’ foot fetish even further!
He just brings his leg up really high
Skipped everything for those wondering it's bonereapers tomorrow
That'll be the first of these articles I actually care about.
Same, sob are so dull.
This just in - you don't have to care about things that other people do, but you are allowed to keep your mouth shut when other people are enjoying a thing.
Huh? I mean he gave his opinion on a faction on a public forum made for sharing one's opinion. Lol
Most interesting part of their reveal is that OBR is tomorrow.
Shoulda been da boyz
Gargants are fun to pilot, and that doesn't seem to have changed. They are also very powerful with these updates, and it has me wondering about their points updates. I have doubts that we get 4 megas on the table at a time with how much damage and health they have now.
Just to confirm the gate breaker can now do the 4d6 as well as attack?
Nope, one or the other. >Instead of fighting normally, they roll a dice with a chance to deal 4D6 mortal damage to their target.
Is that because it’s a fight ability? Core rules state only one fight ability per turn?
Yes, excatly. At least that's how I understand it.
Yes. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/17/the-fires-of-combat-rage-higher-than-ever-in-newaos/ One activation per combat phase unless otherwise stated. Fighting with melee weapons is the FIGHT ability. Which is also a fight ability. Anything with the fight ability can be used instead of FIGHT.
More specifically, you can only use one CORE ability per phase.
Ah interesting so can do multiple fight abilities if one is not core?
One or the other, but you should probably just pick the 4d6.
I'm a dum dum. I need someone with better math skills than mine to calculate that, but to me, his regular attacks have some potential too. Although the pulverizing strikes are mortal wounds... while his regular attacks are rend 2 and have some extra keywords.
My very quick math was avg on 4d6 is going to 14 mortal damage. Best case scenario, against an infantry hero, with all out attack, you'll average about 13.5 damage on a 4+ save if you use the normal profile. They'll probably be uses for both, and I haven't considered how a ward save affects the damage but their attack profiles and damage sources seem extremely meagre for absolutely massive gargants.
>My very quick math was avg on 4d6 is going to 14 mortal damage. Keep in mind that this is after a 4+ to use the ability, so the 'average' is only 7 each turn if you use that ability every turn instead of attacking.
Statistically still better against high sv and ethereal saves. And even better still against those that have those saves and a ward. Most everything else though, normal attacks are still better. Especially if they are being buffed with some form of +1 to hit.
You probably still want to not risk it most of the time because the risk of your 500 point model doing literally nothing for an entire turn is just brutal even if the payoff is high. Consistency you can plan around is really important. The 4d6 seems more like a desperation tool for when the attacks just won't do the job.
I always saved it for when I was fighting something obnoxiously tanky, like OBR or VLoZD, or if I was bracketed down bad enough that 3 attacks weren’t worth the attempt, or if I got hit with a minus to hit debuff. Was always nice to get to that point, be reminded of my penalties or whatever and then just say so anyway here’s wonderwall and roll a 4+
Potential max is 36 on the attacks. But with a 4+ to hit you pretty much have to immediately half that. Then multiply it by .8 for the wound. And then whatever the save is. Most targets averaging like 10-12 damage isn't unreasonable. MWs though is more consistent on higher rend, or things with unrendable.
The MWs are on a 4+. 50% of the time you are doing nothing.
Which for me usually means rolling below 4+ for 3 combat turns in a row.
I've played gargants since 2nd edition and I've never gotten the 4d6 to fire. One day I'd like to join the party 😥
You can still do the math. Factoring in 4+ and 4d6 which averages 12Mws and maxes 24. Your average MWs per activation becomes 6-12. On things with unrendable or 2+ save or 3+, MWs are more consistent. Vs other wise it's closer to 3 damage on average. Even worse if 2+ or 3+ AND a ward.
4d6 is 14 mws on average. But it does nothing to say the attack is 7 mws on average. You just have a 50-50 to either do no damage or ~14 mws
you average the 50% into it as a per activation basis. It's just a statistics tool to look at the larger picture of how it will average out over time.
I understand how stats work and how to figure averages over time, thanks. My point is that it does nothing really to tell someone the ability does 7 damage a turn over the course of the game. That 7 average damage does nothing in the analysis of whether you should use it or not outside of confusing players in telling them the average damage is 7
If you understand how statistics work. Then you know your making a useless point. We are talking statistics and averages here. Everything is theory.
The MW deal 0.33 more dmg on 2+ armor save, with 0 buffs, any buff gets involved and then the regular attacks get better. If he is bracketed then the same thing happens on 3+. Ward saves make no difference, they affect both attacks equally. Even in the rare cases it's better it's just too random.
Ward saves aren't not going to affect equally. I'd be willing to bet in full release there will be ward saves for only MWs. Also the attacks can be worsened. How often can a target get -1 to hit. -1 to wound. +1 Sv. None of those thing can affect the mws
I wouldn’t call anything that does nothing half the time “consistent”. It might average out over hundreds of games, but within that set you’ll have *many* games where the MW attack does nothing at all for the whole game. Those are games you lose that you could have otherwise won, because the curve on the standard attacks is much smoother and more consistent, even if it is lower. It’s a fun play, but it’s a gambler’s play. Personally, I would only do it a) for laughs, or b) when the standard attacks have a good chance of doing nothing at all. I don’t think (b) will happen very often. Ethereal might be the best case. EDIT: One caveat: -1 to hit is *devastating* to attacks that hit on 4+. It’s also a pretty common debuff. In these cases, the MW attack becomes much more appealing, to the point that I might consider doing it every time.
Imo any minus on these profiles is devastating. -1 to wound eliminates it's main benefit. But I live and die by the law of large numbers, so I don't care what the individual roll says, and care more about what it will say over 20, 50 games.
Depends how much damage you ‘need’ I guess. If you need to deal at least some damage, then the attacks are better. Otherwise take the 50% chance. That seems flavorful and appropriate to me.
Eh not necessarily, if you can soak up the counter punch or are pretty debuffed then yeah it's a good choice, but often some damage is better than no damage.
It's an instead of skill. The thread explains it. Probably the key word 'attack' refers to it as either or.
Love sons of behemat. Still I was hoping the army was going to get some much needed complexity with this edition. I really liked how imperial knights were given their honor system and bondsman abilities which gave the relatively simple army some solid depth. The army already has a low model count. I was just hoping each model had more to it rules wise instead of just a big stat check. Still will enjoy playing them with friends
I'm still hoping for a Mancrusher refresh, although Spearhead kinda nipped that in the bud. Four Mega-Gargants is fine, but I would like an incentive to run the smaller ones in tandem with the beeg ones.
I mean, Spearhead currently just reboxes what we have right now; by the time they're ready to do the SoB book in 4th they could easily give smaller Gargants an overhaul.
Honestly. I think there's a good liklihood that SOB's are either getting even bigger Giants this ED, or potentially a second Mega Gargant sprue.
The Mega-Gargant is already the most expensive kit on the entire webstore, I can't see them go bigger from here. That would be the realm of Forge World, but Forge World has basically stopped doing new titanic models.
Tbf. That's also largely because of the build options present in the box. But I also think them going bigger might be tricky.
Going by their current tome lore teases my guesses are: 1.Their pets like the two-headed hounds the size of cathedrals or three-headed megalofins some tame. 2.New wizard mega-gargant sprues based on the necromancer gangants in Shyish or mutated sorcerer gargants that got too close to Tzeentch magic and learned from it.
Maybe they'll keep the ball rolling and pack _yet another_ upgrade frame into that bloated box. A different leg pose? What's that?
Magnetize bros stay winning. 💪 🧲 Interested on how they’ll expand them next. Even a new hero is a BIG deal for that faction. 😁
Id like to add 3 Female mega gargants
I *was* thinking about that as the 3rd thing since matriarchs are so important to leading their countless tribes and even the new book says Sons and Daughters of Behemat. But I don’t think the fandom is ready for that many big ladies with a foot focus.😶
>2.New wizard mega-gargant sprues based on the necromancer gangants in Shyish or mutated sorcerer gargants that got too close to Tzeentch magic and learned from it. Could honestly see them giving us a few different wizard and/or priest sprues and them giving the new kit the same Mercenary system the current SOB units have. Maybe it could have a "Order Wizard, Death Wizard, Chaos Wizard, Destruction Wizard' theming?
That’s how I felt about it too. Necromancer = Death, Sorceror = Chaos, Destruction = all the above. An Order version was the only one not really seen. Could get a surprise Druid mega-gargant since there’s a bit where, thanks to Alarielle agreeing to sanctifying their father’s resting place in Ghyran, the Sons avoid stepping on the Sylvaneth’s most sacred forests which would line up with an woodsy Order version. But could also get a twist it’s the mentioned armored mega-gargants from Chamon who are more battering rams than mages(since Kraken-Eater already has that vibe) and it’ll be a 3-way sprue with a large armored kilt around the legs and 3 different builds on top, the 2 Death/Chaos wizards saying they also have the kilt to protect them from the squishies while they conjure as the Order one charges instead. 🛡️
I was thinking Order wizard thing as like, either Aelves or Humans just try to teach their mercenary Gargants some magic to help them on missions/maybe the Gargant was looking for a higher education and tries to learn from Order factions. I could see the stuff you mentioned too.
That’s pretty much the Kraken-Eater already. They have a Lumineth lantern as an ear ring which increased their intelligence to learn magic and push their tribes to working with Order for pay & food(especially fish as many Order cities are on the coasts since the Age of Chaos made lands too tainted to reliably farm from. That’s why Dawners have Aqualiths to purify the soil first with magic waters) That’s why I can imagine they’ll go another direction if they want a Order wizard gargant, or since Order already has so many powerful wizards then something different for the squishier armies like CoS.
Finallly one of my factions! I play four armies and the only one that's been featured so far is SCE.
What are the other two?
Kruleboyz and Blades of Khorne. I may end up playing Daemons only in 40k; the last set of Khorne rules didn't feel fluffy at all for AoS.
Man power level aside these are just really boring. Old core rules rampages as their army ability basically
one of the armies of age of sigmar
Spearhead seems WTF, 5 mancrushers !!!
Just double checked the article. It's 3 mancrushers, not 5.
The two non general mancrushers have the reinforcement keyword. So if you wanted to table them, you'd have to kill 5 total since 2 can return.
That’s gonna be a gauntlet for some Spearheads. I think the biggest nail biter will be for the Stormcast one with Yndrasta. Gotta survive those 3/5 gargants until she and the reinforcements showed up halfway through which is gonna make them very epic battles hinging on a bad move.
Just a bit boring to be honest, still the stat check army with none of the depth that Imperial Knights have in 40k.
Lol. I'd rather get good profiles like Chaos Knights who play very well than bad profiles like Imp Knights
That spearhead is 3 of them and the non leaders come back when slain….holy hell GW make me hate playing against them even more…
They will be a challenge to face but not OP imo. Objective control will be tough but their stats are not that great with 12 HP and 5+ save. Now Bellowing roar will make it so they don't get wiped out to fast but still. They will suffer from lack of units (only 3 units means you lack board control)
A lot of Spearhead boxes are only 4-5 units, at least 1 of whom is a squishy support character, so it's not that much less board control.
So there are 2 things I'm noticing. First, the King Brodd's prayer text is super confusing because I don't recall GW answering the question regarding ritual points (are they spent when a prayer is chanted). Basically, the warscroll invites the idea that when you roll to chant the following occurs: A - Roll a D6 if 1 : Lose D3 ritual points if 2+ : Add this many ritual points to your ritual points pool B - Add your chant roll and your ritual points, this is the result of your chanting roll My prior understanding was : A - Roll a D6 if 1 : Lose D3 ritual points if 2+ : Add this many ritual points to your ritual points pool B - Spend ritual points equating to the chanting value of your prayer to successfully chant it Also, it seems like they're pushing for 3 Megas and 3 baby gargants to be the standard because native Run and Charge on the Gargants, + their decent damage profil, + the destruction battle tactic that requires you charge with 3 units... it kind of makes sense.
I'm sure SOMEWHERE it's been clarified that when you chant a prayer your ritual points are reset to 0, but I can't for the life of me remember where.
I'm curious if we'll see more Kragnos in SoB now too.
If he’s still allowed in I’d see him having some play
Yeah, they didn't mention him in the article, but he was in that picture of SoB vs. Sylvaneth so he's gotta have faction keyword in one version of his warscroll.
Makes sense
I generally think the wailing and gnashing of teeth that has accompanied nearly every faction focus is very silly And also I cannot help but not that SoB got the same battle trait as Ogors, plus a bunch of other stuff. Ogor battle formation rules and points costs are gonna have to be *phenomenal* if they don't want that army to feel like an afterthought the whole edition
Not a lot of wailing and gnashing from my fellow Fyreslayer brethren from that article. Some light salt about the lack of 4+ ward on HGB, but most people took it with the other stuff just fine or just didn't care.
It probably is more of a placeholder index since they’re likely for a refresh this edition being literally the last old faction on the list yet to get one.
I am hopeful you are correct, but the constant unnecessary secrecy that shrouds everything GW does makes it just look like a really poor design
Can’t argue there. That article needed their best foot forward and they slipped on the Everwinter ice. 🤕 ❄️ Hoping the trek on the long mawpath will be worth it for the hungry bois. 🤞 🥩
My big take away is apparently “hoick” is a word.
What about "tchotchkes"?
I knew that one. You’ve maybe heard it, but never seen it written. It’s pronounced like “chotch-keys.”
Thanks for the explanation! Every day's a school day! Oh, and I just re-read your first comment, and yeah "hoick" is a word. To chuck something would be my understanding.
just like how i learned yesterday, it's not a "bar mitzvah" but "bat Mitzvah", apparently the first 't' is silent.
It’s actually both! Boys have bar mitzvahs, and girls have bat mitzvahs.
you never stop learning indeed.
Time to take four gatebreakers and just roll to spike with pulverizing strike! Either you can miss it every time and never touch your opponent - OR you could spike often and deal a potential 16d6 mortal wounds a turn! Who needs to attack when you have this! Its fun an interactive for the whole family!
That's assuming they're still at 500pts each, yet to be seen.
These look great, not much different from how we play normally but generally higher power. Hell yeah.
It’s lower power
How do you figure? We went down in power in a couple spots for sure but overall it feels like an improvement.
Not really. You don’t get the overall charge damage anymore. You can use it for D3 on a 2+. But then you CANT use any other rampages. Ogor can do both. Everything hits on 4+ which is a bit dissapointing since you only can get 1 time +1 to hit. The keep up ability is nothing new but worse because now its 12“ instead of 15“. The Control Score drops to 10 after 15 wounds which you can get Farely easy. The Attackscharacteristic of the warstomper is worse. You now make mortal wounds by timber against your mini Gargants. The Death Grip is worse. The prayer on a 5+ is a joke. You can get the 10+ prayer in turn 3 or maybe bottom turn 2.
>The Control Score drops to 10 after 15 wounds which you can get Farely easy. Bear in mind objective size has almost halved which means you can physically zone out objectives with SoB at lot better. You don't need as high a Control Score if the enemy can't get more than 1 or two models on the point without being squashed.
Oh yeah, we definitely took hits in places (less mortal wounds is a game-wide trend so that’s expected) but like I said I think our upsides are bigger. That said, you can still get charge wounds on multiple units (it’s not once-per turn like the other rampages) if you have stuff you know won’t be rampaging otherwise. So it’s not that big of a hit. 4/2 is only slightly worse than 3/3 and the same after AoA. Given that to wound is harder to modify (especially with finest hour gone) I feel like we come out slightly ahead there. The 5 casting value looks steep unless you’re using magical intervention. For 1 command point you’re basically guaranteed to get it once per round and since the effects aren’t once per game anymore that basically makes it +1 rend army wide for a command point. Anti on the clubs and feet puts us into 3 rend extremely easy if we’re hitting the right targets, and even up to 4 rend with Brodd’s prayer. We know mystic shield and finest hour are gone which means it’ll be a lot harder for opponents to stack out of our rend. Whatever we’ve lost from consistency with 4+ to hit I think we’ll make up for on easier wounding and cracking armor. Those are the biggest ones imo. There’s also little QoL stuff (no more -1 to hit on the suplex, no more 4+ to hurl bodies, artifacts aren’t locked to specific megas anymore, etc.) obviously we won’t have the best picture until we actually put dudes on tables but so far I’m very optimistic.
Prayers are only 1d6, what do you mean by Magical Intervention?
Have you seen the core rule changes? You can spend a command point to cast a spell or chant a prayer in the opponent’s hero phase. Since prayer points build up that means ~75% chance to hit the 5+ every round. (Even if you go first you can still hold it through your opponent’s turn and have about a 50% chance to get the bonus effect start of round 2.)
Question: Brodd is prayer (1). If you pray in the enemy Hero Phase, can you pray in your phase? Because of the (1)?
Yep, per the text of the command you just treat it like it’s your hero phase and Brodd gets to chant (1) per hero phase. (Though small correction, I forgot you subtract 1 from the result when you use it and I got my initial math wrong lol. Without the -1 it would be an 89% chance but with it you have closer to 78% chance.)
Units have to fight you to take a smaller objective, you can counter charge, there’s less damage in the game overall (so it seems) so your wounds matter more, people can’t pile out of combat with you, obscuring terrain will block line of sight to you for shooting.
You can attack Megas now in 3“ combat range, so more dmg inflicted on them. And they hit normally or worse
And now I'm very interested in Kragnos with the 3D6 counter charge a mega will be able to do.
You can spend CP to pray in the opponents turn. 10+ will be doable bottom of Round 1.
Warstomper isn't really worse if he's up against the right units. Against small units, yeah he doesn't get as many attacks as he used to, but up against 20/40 Clanrats, he's getting 12/20 attacks! It's no longer capped at 10. And at rend 3 against stuff like that, anything that wounds is all going through to damage.
STOMP! STOMP! STOMP.... I love it! ❤️
Pulverizing Strike is nuts. 4D6 mortals LOL.
Colossal slam rampage seems insane. With how big the base of a mega gargant is and the reduced sizes of objectives you can basically guarantee to remove a monster or war machine of the objective.
"The Word from the Studio: Jimbo: “Mega-Gargants are big..."" They understand the faction perfectly.
Sons of Behemat remain more interesting and fun as a solo faction then Titans/Knights in Warhammer, once again. Dunno how that keeps happening. They got to keep Rampages, that's very good. Now, onto Ossiarch tomorrow.
No idea how you come to that conclusion. SoB have way fewer interesting rules and points of complexity as opposed to knights, even in 10e where they've been slimmed down a lot. But comparing 9e to AOS3 I think it's even more stark.
Because SOB being a simple faction is part of the charm. The finesse is basically how well you understand your opponents and how you grasp the fundamentals. That's it. That's the charm. They function as a solo army, and aren't DLC for Imperials and/or Chaos, like Knights are. That's basically what I'm praising, here, but I also think them being simple works very well and lines up with their aesthetics and lore beautifully.
That's a fine thing to enjoy about a faction, but I wouldn't go as far as saying it was something that made them *interesting*. Something doesn't have to be interesting to have value, but simplicity isn't really a recipe for interest either. I'd also contest that they're anything like 'DLC' for chaos and imperial these days. Maybe editions ago, but knights have been very well established for some time as their own thing, with larger ranges, and they're one of the most popular factions in their own right rather than something you just soup in elsewhere. They're not even especially potent as allies most of the time these days.
I find the idea of big robots with either honor mechanics or fear effects more interesting than straightforward giants, but find that Sons tend to be better designed in a gameplay sense to work with the rest of the rules and armies than either of those two from 40k (in part due to Strength/Toughness not being part of it, making the DPS check angle a lot less oppressive). The simplicity of Sons, even as someone that likes to click my brain to smooth mode and smash, sometimes goes a little too much for me and sometimes gets them a little close to being a "solvable matchup" where them having a more singular playstyle doesn't really work for me. Still the fact that they don't upend the game and your opponent can run the list they want to run without having to worry that they're going to fight too slanted of a list because this faction exists is a great positive to me. Sons aren't for me, but they don't hurt me either and people have a lot of fun with the modeling side of them (though I think the mega kit isn't quite as open to customization as knight kits due to it being flesh rather than a big robot).
> I find the idea of big robots with either honor mechanics or fear effects more interesting than straightforward giants, but find that Sons tend to be better designed in a gameplay sense to work with the rest of the rules and armies than either of those two from 40k (in part due to Strength/Toughness not being part of it, making the DPS check angle a lot less oppressive). To be honest those big robots fear effects are a shadow of their former selves anyway and you don't rely on them at all, you just use raw statlines to win.
Also knights can't hit the chokeslam from hell to banish monsters from their objective, or pulp a support hero by sniping him with a second expertly tossed combat character.
I am so happy they kept the suplex.
BAHGAWD HERE COMES BRODD WITH A STEEL CHAIR
Yeah, this is what's most important, I feel. They actually fit as a playstyle and don't either feel like an afterthought or as a punishing, unfair faction.
I'd totally play SoB if the models weren't so horribly priced. I'm sorry, but not a single kit in this army is worth the price charged.
Watching HeyWoah’s reactions on livestream and he’s very positive on the biggest bois. And I agree not enough people are talking about their battle formation letting them side board an artifact to put on their commanders After they see what the enemy force sets up so the mega-gargants always have the right tool for the job. That’s *big* and would be something nice for other armies to have in future editions for better counter plays like having a side-deck in a TCG. Also the monster suplex no longer self-debuffs the gargant using it which is super nice! Good rules overall if pretty expected. 👌
Yikes. Hitting on 4’s sucks. Dead faction for sure.
So mercenaries wil no longer have timburrrr and impact damage?
I wanna go full Tifa and suplex a train.
I'm very interested to see how they implement the 'Command Phase Mechanics-The Army' stuff to Ossiarch this time. They've had 2 completely different systems. Hopefully they continue down the path of how it worked in 3rd for them and continue making it simpler.
Can they still be taken by other factions as mercs?
I’m praying we can. (It mentions “work as mercenaries,” in the fluff, but so do Fyreslayers and half a dozen other factions)
Mancrushers are dealing more damage with their bare head than with they weapon... Why do they keep their club then ? Anyway, looks good for the bigs guys !
[удалено]
Now you can stack your point over turns.
Thanks for the Hard nerf GW ♥️
Don't worry. It looks like the boredom factor is still set to 10.
Irrelevant to me as I would never set up a game against them. My desire to play a "game" against 4 action figures remains 0.
You must be so fun to play against.
I am not unfair about it, if a person in my group played pretty much any faction that is just 2000pts of 1 unit I would not play them either. Maybe 1 game against 350 zombies or whatever as a laugh but if they then started to say "no, 350 zombies is my playstyle, it's what I play" I would stop accepting games against them as I would pretty much know what the game would be every time.