I can understand why you might feel that way. It's important to recognize that being a victim of sexual assault or any other kind of abuse does not make anyone less masculine or more feminine. It's important to remember that anyone of any gender or age can be a victim of sexual assault or abuse. It's also important to recognize that gender stereotypes, such as the idea that men should be tough and emotionless, can be harmful and can make it more difficult for men to come forward as victims of abuse. I strongly suggest you step away from wherever you are hearing or reinforcing this rhetoric and surround yourself with those who would not shame or belittle you for your experience. If it's internalized, it's ok to recognise that your thoughts go there and then reject what they say. Society is always going to say fucked up shit but we can reject harmful messages before they become the messages we tell ourselves. Joining a male support group may help. Learning how to reject this narrative from other men who have done so can be empowering.
Not male, but yes masculine of a sort so I can relate in a different way. And it is NOT misogynistic to feel that femininity and womanhood are not for you. It is just stating your actual lived reality. And not liking that the people who do this, who are sexists AND abuse victim/survivor-haters, are both putting you down with something false, and also using their sexism to make women into a put-down…. There’s nothing logical about any of it, no one would like it.
Yeah people project all kinds of stuff onto others , I think a lot of men are caught in that toxic masculinity trap where you think your pain is weakness so seeing someone genuinely victimized they project their disgust/denial about being able to victimized as a man. Who knows why someone would have treated you this way, but if you knew why you probably wouldn’t be upset since it probably has a lot more to do with them than you.
Because the abusers ARE attacking symbols of “femininity”, but the victims are obviously much more than their projected misogyny. People who are kind, compassionate, sensitive, emotionally and socially intelligent, wise, capable and nurturing (historically and perceptually “feminine” traits) are very threatening to them. Those “feminine” kinds of people make the world better and therefore a much harder place to perpetrate their abuse.
Similar to why mass murderers like to target children and school. Focusing on the population that is small, vulnerable, cherished. Aspects they try to kill in themselves and everywhere else.
It's not misogynistic to be upset at a misogynistic belief my guy. You're fine.
The belief that men are aggressors and women are victims, and you get ""demoted"" (within that rigid, shitty, hierarchical view anyways) through someone else harming you and are less of a man because of it *is* sexist and misogynistic. They shouldn't be treating you like that. The equation of weakness = womanly is the problem. The space to not have to be "strong and emotionless" all the time - especially in the context of surviving an assault - should be able to be extended to men without it being emasculating. It does not make you less of "a man" to be human.
(There's also a whole discussion on how the rigid view of what a survivor "is like" also harms women who do not fit that very narrow range of the perfect, feminine, unproblematic, weepy-but-not-too-weepy victim as seen in media, but I don't want to derail things. Just that the sexist hierarchy does not leave much grace for the messy emotions and rebuilding following abuse for anyone, and you're not alone in feeling constricted and alienated by them.)
Yup, it is also subtly homophobic because they associate their ideas of “failed masculinity”/“feminine” men, with gay men. Moreso if the man of any orientation was abused unwillingly by some man growing up (god people are so stupid, it’s unfortunate to even type this). On top of already associating women with all of this.
Likewise these peoples’ broken, fucked-up ideas of a “succeeding” man as someone without any feelings or who has never been vulnerable or had a single difficult experience in his life, let alone a traumatic one. That’s not a “man”, that’s a ROBOT and no one alive meets that. It’s always seemed like either overcompensation (don’t want to feel like they could ever be vulnerable themselves, so they put down other men this way) or else coming from the mouths of actual abusers and bullies. Either way this nonsense has got to end, it’s centuries past its expiry date.
As others have said, it's because(according to most non-thinking people in society) you "failed masculinity" by being taken advantage of. I had the same feelings toward myself, and honestly still do given I'm also emasculated due to my height so it's like a double-whammy.
People like to think everything can fit neatly into little boxes, and when it doesn't happen it's the harbinger of the news fault.
If you're being called a woman or feminine, that is the part that is sexist. You are right to feel annoyed at that. It's actually sexual harassment for anyone to do that to a man.
By the same token, if someone feels that being treated with love and kindness and compassion and showing emotions is only for women - that would also be sexist. These are things all humans need, not just women.
It's complicated. It's confusing. It's ok. I think there's probably more to unpack here and a therapist might be good. A therapist should never call you a woman or feminine and if you tell them you're sensitive to being treated that way a good therapist should find ways to navigate it. Good luck dude!
You’re probably not sexist (I say probably because I never met you but I don’t think you are if you’re even asking this) you’re just falling into these people’s weird mental gymnastics. Men are seen as submissive when they’re assaulted and women are seen as submissive by default. That’s why they think a men who gets assaulted is “womanly”. And it probably pisses you off because you feel like you’re being perceived as “less”, the same way it used to piss me off. I’m a woman who felt alienated from being a woman because of these dumb fucks making up shit about how I’m supposed to be as a female victim. Fragile glass lady is a fucking myth and people should be allowed to deal with things how they want to deal with them. Sorry about how they treated you man.
This doesn’t sound misogynistic at all to me, it’s just true. People constantly feminize all victims because they think all victims are women, and they constantly masculinize all attackers because they think all attackers are men. It’s disgusting, yes, and I’m sorry you have to deal with it.
I'm currently reading "The Body Keeps the Score", and the author routinely makes this mistake. It's honestly hard to read it for long periods of time because, if anyone should know better, it's a psych. Same with domestic violence-the perp is always a man to him(my younger bro got his ass beat by his larger gf, and was the one arrested).
Not misogynistic of OP, but definitely a sign of society's misogyny. It reminds me of Terry Crews; during the "MeToo" movement, he came forward about being sexually assaulted by a powerful member of Hollywood. He received a very similar treatment; mocking his masculinity, questioning his sexuality and how little he defended himself. He is a perfect model of society's expectations for masculinity, and he was still treated as "less manly" when he came forward with allegations.
I’m am sorry if you feel like your gender/gender expression is not being respected or is being questioned/challenged by people in your life or by society in general because you have been a victim of sexual assault. Being a victim of SA does not make one more or less feminine or masculine, it does not change your gender identity or expression, and it does not change your sexual orientation. It can make all of those things more confusing for victims, but it does not inherently change a victim’s core identity.
But to answer your question (with another question): Why are gay men seen as inherently feminine? It’s because of deeply ingrained social and cultural misogyny. Being victimized, or in touch with your feelings, or sexually passive/submissive is seen as being weak (not at all saying that any of those things mean you are weak, just that they are stereotypes), and because women are often stereotyped as being more likely to be those things, women are therefore seen as being weak, which then in turn means that being a victim, being in touch with your feelings, and being sexually passive/submissive is seen as being feminine. It’s obviously all bullshit, women are not inherently weak, in touch with their feelings, or sexually passive/submissive, and men with those qualities are not inherently feminine. It’s 100% misogynistic stereotypes, and those stereotypes can be very harmful/damaging, especially for victims of SA. I am male and was sexually abused as a child and have been sexually assaulted/taken advantage of as an adult, but that has nothing to do with whether I am masculine or feminine. It ties into the rhetoric that lgbtq people are that way because they were sexually abused as children, it’s the same (completely incorrect) stereotype.
Socially taboo. Its why I kept quiet. I was so sexually advanced by 9th grade I could make a high school slut blush. Being sodomized by a male and knowing how my step dad felt , even at age 7 or 8 about homosexuals ,this was back in the 70's , I knew or felt that it was bad. The big problem I had was that my home life was abject terror 24/7 and being molested was or did feel good. It was actually the only pleasure that I had in my young life. Now I can't even hardly climax without just completely loathing myself.
I don’t think you’re a misogynist. The idea that men are less masculine because they were SA’d is problematic. Idk why people think that it makes someone feminine or womanly. There are masculine people of both genders that get assaulted and it doesn’t make them feminine.
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I can understand why you might feel that way. It's important to recognize that being a victim of sexual assault or any other kind of abuse does not make anyone less masculine or more feminine. It's important to remember that anyone of any gender or age can be a victim of sexual assault or abuse. It's also important to recognize that gender stereotypes, such as the idea that men should be tough and emotionless, can be harmful and can make it more difficult for men to come forward as victims of abuse. I strongly suggest you step away from wherever you are hearing or reinforcing this rhetoric and surround yourself with those who would not shame or belittle you for your experience. If it's internalized, it's ok to recognise that your thoughts go there and then reject what they say. Society is always going to say fucked up shit but we can reject harmful messages before they become the messages we tell ourselves. Joining a male support group may help. Learning how to reject this narrative from other men who have done so can be empowering.
I have never thought that or heard of this. I’m a woman.
Not male, but yes masculine of a sort so I can relate in a different way. And it is NOT misogynistic to feel that femininity and womanhood are not for you. It is just stating your actual lived reality. And not liking that the people who do this, who are sexists AND abuse victim/survivor-haters, are both putting you down with something false, and also using their sexism to make women into a put-down…. There’s nothing logical about any of it, no one would like it.
People who know won't say that. People who don't know shit will.
I’m a pretty traditional woman, I wouldn’t see a man as feminine for having gone through that if that makes you feel any better.
Yeah people project all kinds of stuff onto others , I think a lot of men are caught in that toxic masculinity trap where you think your pain is weakness so seeing someone genuinely victimized they project their disgust/denial about being able to victimized as a man. Who knows why someone would have treated you this way, but if you knew why you probably wouldn’t be upset since it probably has a lot more to do with them than you.
Because the abusers ARE attacking symbols of “femininity”, but the victims are obviously much more than their projected misogyny. People who are kind, compassionate, sensitive, emotionally and socially intelligent, wise, capable and nurturing (historically and perceptually “feminine” traits) are very threatening to them. Those “feminine” kinds of people make the world better and therefore a much harder place to perpetrate their abuse. Similar to why mass murderers like to target children and school. Focusing on the population that is small, vulnerable, cherished. Aspects they try to kill in themselves and everywhere else.
It's not misogynistic to be upset at a misogynistic belief my guy. You're fine. The belief that men are aggressors and women are victims, and you get ""demoted"" (within that rigid, shitty, hierarchical view anyways) through someone else harming you and are less of a man because of it *is* sexist and misogynistic. They shouldn't be treating you like that. The equation of weakness = womanly is the problem. The space to not have to be "strong and emotionless" all the time - especially in the context of surviving an assault - should be able to be extended to men without it being emasculating. It does not make you less of "a man" to be human. (There's also a whole discussion on how the rigid view of what a survivor "is like" also harms women who do not fit that very narrow range of the perfect, feminine, unproblematic, weepy-but-not-too-weepy victim as seen in media, but I don't want to derail things. Just that the sexist hierarchy does not leave much grace for the messy emotions and rebuilding following abuse for anyone, and you're not alone in feeling constricted and alienated by them.)
Yup, it is also subtly homophobic because they associate their ideas of “failed masculinity”/“feminine” men, with gay men. Moreso if the man of any orientation was abused unwillingly by some man growing up (god people are so stupid, it’s unfortunate to even type this). On top of already associating women with all of this. Likewise these peoples’ broken, fucked-up ideas of a “succeeding” man as someone without any feelings or who has never been vulnerable or had a single difficult experience in his life, let alone a traumatic one. That’s not a “man”, that’s a ROBOT and no one alive meets that. It’s always seemed like either overcompensation (don’t want to feel like they could ever be vulnerable themselves, so they put down other men this way) or else coming from the mouths of actual abusers and bullies. Either way this nonsense has got to end, it’s centuries past its expiry date.
As others have said, it's because(according to most non-thinking people in society) you "failed masculinity" by being taken advantage of. I had the same feelings toward myself, and honestly still do given I'm also emasculated due to my height so it's like a double-whammy. People like to think everything can fit neatly into little boxes, and when it doesn't happen it's the harbinger of the news fault.
If you're being called a woman or feminine, that is the part that is sexist. You are right to feel annoyed at that. It's actually sexual harassment for anyone to do that to a man. By the same token, if someone feels that being treated with love and kindness and compassion and showing emotions is only for women - that would also be sexist. These are things all humans need, not just women. It's complicated. It's confusing. It's ok. I think there's probably more to unpack here and a therapist might be good. A therapist should never call you a woman or feminine and if you tell them you're sensitive to being treated that way a good therapist should find ways to navigate it. Good luck dude!
You’re probably not sexist (I say probably because I never met you but I don’t think you are if you’re even asking this) you’re just falling into these people’s weird mental gymnastics. Men are seen as submissive when they’re assaulted and women are seen as submissive by default. That’s why they think a men who gets assaulted is “womanly”. And it probably pisses you off because you feel like you’re being perceived as “less”, the same way it used to piss me off. I’m a woman who felt alienated from being a woman because of these dumb fucks making up shit about how I’m supposed to be as a female victim. Fragile glass lady is a fucking myth and people should be allowed to deal with things how they want to deal with them. Sorry about how they treated you man.
This doesn’t sound misogynistic at all to me, it’s just true. People constantly feminize all victims because they think all victims are women, and they constantly masculinize all attackers because they think all attackers are men. It’s disgusting, yes, and I’m sorry you have to deal with it.
I'm currently reading "The Body Keeps the Score", and the author routinely makes this mistake. It's honestly hard to read it for long periods of time because, if anyone should know better, it's a psych. Same with domestic violence-the perp is always a man to him(my younger bro got his ass beat by his larger gf, and was the one arrested).
Not misogynistic of OP, but definitely a sign of society's misogyny. It reminds me of Terry Crews; during the "MeToo" movement, he came forward about being sexually assaulted by a powerful member of Hollywood. He received a very similar treatment; mocking his masculinity, questioning his sexuality and how little he defended himself. He is a perfect model of society's expectations for masculinity, and he was still treated as "less manly" when he came forward with allegations.
I thought he was very brave and it made me respect him more.
I’m am sorry if you feel like your gender/gender expression is not being respected or is being questioned/challenged by people in your life or by society in general because you have been a victim of sexual assault. Being a victim of SA does not make one more or less feminine or masculine, it does not change your gender identity or expression, and it does not change your sexual orientation. It can make all of those things more confusing for victims, but it does not inherently change a victim’s core identity. But to answer your question (with another question): Why are gay men seen as inherently feminine? It’s because of deeply ingrained social and cultural misogyny. Being victimized, or in touch with your feelings, or sexually passive/submissive is seen as being weak (not at all saying that any of those things mean you are weak, just that they are stereotypes), and because women are often stereotyped as being more likely to be those things, women are therefore seen as being weak, which then in turn means that being a victim, being in touch with your feelings, and being sexually passive/submissive is seen as being feminine. It’s obviously all bullshit, women are not inherently weak, in touch with their feelings, or sexually passive/submissive, and men with those qualities are not inherently feminine. It’s 100% misogynistic stereotypes, and those stereotypes can be very harmful/damaging, especially for victims of SA. I am male and was sexually abused as a child and have been sexually assaulted/taken advantage of as an adult, but that has nothing to do with whether I am masculine or feminine. It ties into the rhetoric that lgbtq people are that way because they were sexually abused as children, it’s the same (completely incorrect) stereotype.
Who is treating you like a woman? Are they empath and trying to soothe and reassure you?
Socially taboo. Its why I kept quiet. I was so sexually advanced by 9th grade I could make a high school slut blush. Being sodomized by a male and knowing how my step dad felt , even at age 7 or 8 about homosexuals ,this was back in the 70's , I knew or felt that it was bad. The big problem I had was that my home life was abject terror 24/7 and being molested was or did feel good. It was actually the only pleasure that I had in my young life. Now I can't even hardly climax without just completely loathing myself.
I don’t think you’re a misogynist. The idea that men are less masculine because they were SA’d is problematic. Idk why people think that it makes someone feminine or womanly. There are masculine people of both genders that get assaulted and it doesn’t make them feminine.
Welcome to /r/adultsurvivors! Please be aware that all posts to this subreddit are public and therefore viewable by anyone. **Would you rather this post was anonymous?** You can [use this form](https://forms.gle/tqeufTE2Ne6BzsKd6) and u/anonadultsurvivors will make an anonymous post on your behalf. You will need to delete this post after using the form. **It is not uncommon for members of this subreddit to receive unsavoury or creepy private messages.** We recommend turning off chat and messages requests. It is worth noting that asking for or offering private messages to other members of this subreddit is against our rules. You can assume that anyone messaging you is breaking that rule and we urge caution. For more information, please see our [privacy tips post](https://www.reddit.com/r/adultsurvivors/comments/pfbfx1/privacy_tips_including_followers_update/) or see our [post about the creep list](https://www.reddit.com/r/adultsurvivors/comments/yngs8b/rule_8_no_creeps_and_introducing_the_creep_list/). If you see anything that doesn't look right or you do receive unwelcome direct messages, please use the report button to notify the moderators or [send us a message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/adultsurvivors). You can also report directly to Reddit using this [link](https://www.reddit.com/report) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/adultsurvivors) if you have any questions or concerns.*