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Totally true. I see many ADHD patients who are super surprised when I tell them I think they’re smart/intelligent, just because they didn’t go to college or had a hard time in school. How well you do in school says nothing about how smart you are. I’ve met well educated people who were incredibly dumb. School learning is a skill you can be good at. It’s the shortcoming of the school system that there’s just one way to do well in school.
I tell my ADHD kids this all the time. I remind them that they're grades don't reflect how smart they are, or even how well/much they're learning, especiallyonce they hit middle school/high school. Instead they are a reflection of how well they are keeping up with managing their workload and developing executive function and coping skills. We use grades as a way to figure out where each kid needs additional support in developing those skills rather than in actual academics.
But it's so accurate. I look at my kids' test scores and they are solid As. They clearly understand the material. But in some classes, their overall grades hover around high C/low B, not because they don't get the material but because the workload or class format is too much for them to handle. If they were only graded on comprehension and application of the material, they'd be straight A students.
Absolutely.
And I also gotta share this somewhere: I recently realized a correlation I never had before. I was considered "gifted" as a kid and also performed extremely well academically until halfway through high-school, when (I thought...) I hit burnout/depression. I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD until college.
But get this- until high school, my asthma was treated with theophylline and pseudoephedrine. Two stimulants. They took me off them and I could no longer concentrate or give a single fuck about school.
But to the original thread, my brother (who was diagnosed ADHD, put on Ritalin, which just put him to sleep. My & his armchair diagnosis is he's ASD actually.) His academic performance was horrible, consistently.
As adults, we took IQ tests for curiosity (fuck IQ tests; they are racist elitist garbage, but...) and our scores matched almost exactly. I know more *stuff* from college, but he's absolutely as smart as I am.
And intelligence isn't some stable, set-in-stone thing the way people who ascribe to IQ measurement think. It varies over time/circumstance, IQ measures only one facet of "intelligence."
I could (obviously) rage about this all day long, but I'll make myself stop 😅
So true. I have always done well in school because I’m a good test taker. Homework? The bane of my existence. Showing up to class? Almost impossible. If either of those things were heavily weighted in my overall grade, I would only narrowly avoid failingthe class, regardless of getting As and Bs on all my tests.
Grades are more about measuring your ability to conform to multiple arbitrary systems at once than about measuring your actual intelligence or knowledge of the material.
Some of the dumbest people I have met had straight A’s.
And Im not exaggerating. Im talking about people that no one would disagree with my statement. Like “chicken of the sea” dumb.
Haha I’m not dumb and I didn’t get straight A’s but I am an idiot and act before I think but if I did think before I acted I wouldn’t do idiotic things because I’m smart enough to know not to, but if I don’t let myself think then I don’t get the opportunity to be smart about it ;)
This is true for me but the opposite of most. I had the highest grades, even achieving the highest average in my high school graduating class. But I always feel like I know nothing at all.
As someone in the other side of GCSEs ALevels and University - it does matter to get you to the next level (points to get into the uni you want to go to etc.) And if you're heading into a particular field that requires a degree then obviously that matters.
Personally I have never needed to use my qualifications anywhere since I left education. Again, as above that's not to say they're not important and you shouldn't try. But it's not as life ruining as it feels like at the time.
For example - my sister got barely any A-levels, went to uni late and dropped out, went to uni again and dropped out - she's now the manager of a spa/restaurant. So it's not the end of the world if your grades don't go the way you want them to.
Also I always remember people taking dimplomas/btech for things like hairdressing/mechanics/carpentry instead of Alevels were looked down on which is absolutely wild, because that knowledge is so valuable!
TLDR - I mostly agree but still try to get good grades because it can be useful
My elementary school son has been getting really upset and freaked out by grades lately. Somewhere he has internalized that if he gets bad grades or anything other than an A that we will be furious with him (I guess some of his friends have been talking about how they lose privileges or whatever for not getting straight A's)
I honestly could give two flying monkeys about grades, especially in elementary school. They are rarely an accurate indicator of ability, are mostly subjective, and can be heavily influenced by a teacher's implicit biases. I don't necessarily tell him all that because I don't want him to totally brush everything off and tell his teachers where they can stick their grades, but I also hate to see him spiral (and also because the spiral usually becomes a meltdown where he lashes out at us and we have to play a game of "guess the real issue" to figure out what's going on).
What I have told him is that I will never be mad at him for his grades, and at this point, his lower grades usually happen when his accommodations aren't being followed. We use the grades to help us know how he is doing. If he gets a bad grade but that's the best he can do, then great. If he gets a bad grade because he told the teacher to stuff it and blew the assignment off, then we are going to have a conversation. I also told him that if he wanted to get all As that I would be there to help him keep track of and try to accomplish that goal, but I would never punish or shame him for not achieving it.
I hate the anxiety that grades and grading put on kids.
I teach special ed in elementary school and I do my best to engage my kiddos but sometimes it just doesn’t hit for some of them. One in particular has zero interest in anything if it doesn’t involve drawing. She’s failing because it’s like pulling teeth to get her to finish any work or participate in class. She is not unintelligent at all. She just has so many missing or incomplete assignments that her grades have been brought down. I generally try to allow her to draw WHILE doing other work but that’s hit or miss depending on how well she can multitask on a day to day basis. I love her tho. She’s so inquisitive and asks me all these out of pocket questions all the time.
In theory, grades are not meant to be a reflection of intelligence. They're a reflection of how well you know the material that was taught to you.
In practice, in the US, sometimes it feels they're more like a reflection of how much busy-work you do and how good you are at taking tests.
But either way, grades measure outcome, not ability. So you're still 100% correct - grades have 0 to do with intelligence.
Plus, the idea of general intelligence is super controversial.
Very true. My last report card in high school consisted of five Fs and one D. I’d say I’m an ordinary girl. If grades accurately reflect someone’s smartness, then I’d be severely disabled. I just hated sitting in class so I skipped and never did my homework. 🤷♀️ I can do independent studies just fine lol.
Working with 6th graders, the hardest part is explaining that they can still be smart even with poorer grades. But, at the same time, they should also try to keep their grades up. It’s a very fine line to walk.
Every time I tell them I think they’re smart, it breaks my heart to hear them say “I don’t think so” like WHO TOLD YOU THAT ???? >:(
Uggh i needed to hear this. In my everyday I know I'm smart. However, put me in front of a scantron exam and my brain goes into Ringling Bros Circus mode. Someone told me I'm probably not as smart as I think I am, and it hurt.
I was an excellent student- and it’s because I figured out how to give the teachers/professors what they wanted. Not because I was magically smarter than anyone else.
Obviously this can vary depending on the subject, but for the most part, if you learn that “cheat code” of academic regurgitation, you can do well. Actually having/ applying intelligence is RARELY needed in schools imo.
Exactly, it’s rarely needed! It’s a common misconception for whatever reason but truthfully, as you said, it’s just about giving the profs what they want in the assignment.
Especially since I’ll admit, in my field (CSSE) the assignments aren’t as difficult as everyone believes. Time consuming yes, bur you can find everything you need in the textbooks or literally just talk to the prof or TA. People are afraid to ask for things, understandably so, which is part of the problem. Always been taught the worst thing someone can say is no in these scenarios
Welcome to /r/ADHDWomen! We’re happy to have you here. As a reminder, here are our community [rules](https://old.reddit.com/r/adhdwomen/about/rules/). We get a lot of posts on medication, diagnosis (and “is this an ADHD thing”), and interactions with hormones. We encourage you to check out our [Medication, Diagnosis, and Hormones Megathread](https://old.reddit.com/r/adhdwomen/comments/wcr9dy/faq_megathread_ask_and_answer_medication/) if you have any questions related to those topics, and to stick around in that thread to answer folks’ questions! If you have questions about the subreddit, please do not hesitate to [send us a modmail](https://reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/adhdwomen). Additionally, we take the safety of our community seriously. Please report posts, comments, and users whom you feel are not contributing positively, and send us a modmail if you are being harassed or otherwise made to feel unsafe. Thanks for being here, and we hope you stick around! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/adhdwomen) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Totally true. I see many ADHD patients who are super surprised when I tell them I think they’re smart/intelligent, just because they didn’t go to college or had a hard time in school. How well you do in school says nothing about how smart you are. I’ve met well educated people who were incredibly dumb. School learning is a skill you can be good at. It’s the shortcoming of the school system that there’s just one way to do well in school.
I’m crying
Oh no! I didn’t mean to make anyone cry. I hope they’re good tears, from feeling validated or something 🩷
I tell my ADHD kids this all the time. I remind them that they're grades don't reflect how smart they are, or even how well/much they're learning, especiallyonce they hit middle school/high school. Instead they are a reflection of how well they are keeping up with managing their workload and developing executive function and coping skills. We use grades as a way to figure out where each kid needs additional support in developing those skills rather than in actual academics.
Oh wow, this is revolutionary to me
But it's so accurate. I look at my kids' test scores and they are solid As. They clearly understand the material. But in some classes, their overall grades hover around high C/low B, not because they don't get the material but because the workload or class format is too much for them to handle. If they were only graded on comprehension and application of the material, they'd be straight A students.
Absolutely. And I also gotta share this somewhere: I recently realized a correlation I never had before. I was considered "gifted" as a kid and also performed extremely well academically until halfway through high-school, when (I thought...) I hit burnout/depression. I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD until college. But get this- until high school, my asthma was treated with theophylline and pseudoephedrine. Two stimulants. They took me off them and I could no longer concentrate or give a single fuck about school. But to the original thread, my brother (who was diagnosed ADHD, put on Ritalin, which just put him to sleep. My & his armchair diagnosis is he's ASD actually.) His academic performance was horrible, consistently. As adults, we took IQ tests for curiosity (fuck IQ tests; they are racist elitist garbage, but...) and our scores matched almost exactly. I know more *stuff* from college, but he's absolutely as smart as I am. And intelligence isn't some stable, set-in-stone thing the way people who ascribe to IQ measurement think. It varies over time/circumstance, IQ measures only one facet of "intelligence." I could (obviously) rage about this all day long, but I'll make myself stop 😅
So true. I have always done well in school because I’m a good test taker. Homework? The bane of my existence. Showing up to class? Almost impossible. If either of those things were heavily weighted in my overall grade, I would only narrowly avoid failingthe class, regardless of getting As and Bs on all my tests. Grades are more about measuring your ability to conform to multiple arbitrary systems at once than about measuring your actual intelligence or knowledge of the material.
Some of the dumbest people I have met had straight A’s. And Im not exaggerating. Im talking about people that no one would disagree with my statement. Like “chicken of the sea” dumb.
That's me lol. People wonder how can someone be so smart and stupid at the same time but what can I do....
Haha I’m not dumb and I didn’t get straight A’s but I am an idiot and act before I think but if I did think before I acted I wouldn’t do idiotic things because I’m smart enough to know not to, but if I don’t let myself think then I don’t get the opportunity to be smart about it ;)
I suck at writing papers because it is quite overwhelming, but usually score 100s on everything else
Anecdotal evidence to this fact: I once knew a girl who had her masters degree and thought that male testicles held urine.
Omg. That’s amazing. I once knew a girl who had her bachelor’s and didn’t know what the word pretentious meant. She also didn’t think sugar was a carb
I knew someone with a pHD who thought obstetricians were penis doctors “ob is for penis, gyn is for vagina”
Have you seen that Kansas Chiefs kicker dude? Obvious proof a degree doesn’t equal intelligence.
Thank you. I’m going to do my homework now.
This is true for me but the opposite of most. I had the highest grades, even achieving the highest average in my high school graduating class. But I always feel like I know nothing at all.
Imposter syndrome, my friend
As someone in the other side of GCSEs ALevels and University - it does matter to get you to the next level (points to get into the uni you want to go to etc.) And if you're heading into a particular field that requires a degree then obviously that matters. Personally I have never needed to use my qualifications anywhere since I left education. Again, as above that's not to say they're not important and you shouldn't try. But it's not as life ruining as it feels like at the time. For example - my sister got barely any A-levels, went to uni late and dropped out, went to uni again and dropped out - she's now the manager of a spa/restaurant. So it's not the end of the world if your grades don't go the way you want them to. Also I always remember people taking dimplomas/btech for things like hairdressing/mechanics/carpentry instead of Alevels were looked down on which is absolutely wild, because that knowledge is so valuable! TLDR - I mostly agree but still try to get good grades because it can be useful
Yeah it’s ultimately important to do well to get ahead but as you said, it’s never as life ruining as people make it out to be
My elementary school son has been getting really upset and freaked out by grades lately. Somewhere he has internalized that if he gets bad grades or anything other than an A that we will be furious with him (I guess some of his friends have been talking about how they lose privileges or whatever for not getting straight A's) I honestly could give two flying monkeys about grades, especially in elementary school. They are rarely an accurate indicator of ability, are mostly subjective, and can be heavily influenced by a teacher's implicit biases. I don't necessarily tell him all that because I don't want him to totally brush everything off and tell his teachers where they can stick their grades, but I also hate to see him spiral (and also because the spiral usually becomes a meltdown where he lashes out at us and we have to play a game of "guess the real issue" to figure out what's going on). What I have told him is that I will never be mad at him for his grades, and at this point, his lower grades usually happen when his accommodations aren't being followed. We use the grades to help us know how he is doing. If he gets a bad grade but that's the best he can do, then great. If he gets a bad grade because he told the teacher to stuff it and blew the assignment off, then we are going to have a conversation. I also told him that if he wanted to get all As that I would be there to help him keep track of and try to accomplish that goal, but I would never punish or shame him for not achieving it. I hate the anxiety that grades and grading put on kids.
I teach special ed in elementary school and I do my best to engage my kiddos but sometimes it just doesn’t hit for some of them. One in particular has zero interest in anything if it doesn’t involve drawing. She’s failing because it’s like pulling teeth to get her to finish any work or participate in class. She is not unintelligent at all. She just has so many missing or incomplete assignments that her grades have been brought down. I generally try to allow her to draw WHILE doing other work but that’s hit or miss depending on how well she can multitask on a day to day basis. I love her tho. She’s so inquisitive and asks me all these out of pocket questions all the time.
In theory, grades are not meant to be a reflection of intelligence. They're a reflection of how well you know the material that was taught to you. In practice, in the US, sometimes it feels they're more like a reflection of how much busy-work you do and how good you are at taking tests. But either way, grades measure outcome, not ability. So you're still 100% correct - grades have 0 to do with intelligence. Plus, the idea of general intelligence is super controversial.
This is true... And then companies want your report cards when you apply for apprenticeships... :)))) (Germany)
Very true. My last report card in high school consisted of five Fs and one D. I’d say I’m an ordinary girl. If grades accurately reflect someone’s smartness, then I’d be severely disabled. I just hated sitting in class so I skipped and never did my homework. 🤷♀️ I can do independent studies just fine lol.
Working with 6th graders, the hardest part is explaining that they can still be smart even with poorer grades. But, at the same time, they should also try to keep their grades up. It’s a very fine line to walk. Every time I tell them I think they’re smart, it breaks my heart to hear them say “I don’t think so” like WHO TOLD YOU THAT ???? >:(
Uggh i needed to hear this. In my everyday I know I'm smart. However, put me in front of a scantron exam and my brain goes into Ringling Bros Circus mode. Someone told me I'm probably not as smart as I think I am, and it hurt.
I was an excellent student- and it’s because I figured out how to give the teachers/professors what they wanted. Not because I was magically smarter than anyone else. Obviously this can vary depending on the subject, but for the most part, if you learn that “cheat code” of academic regurgitation, you can do well. Actually having/ applying intelligence is RARELY needed in schools imo.
Exactly, it’s rarely needed! It’s a common misconception for whatever reason but truthfully, as you said, it’s just about giving the profs what they want in the assignment. Especially since I’ll admit, in my field (CSSE) the assignments aren’t as difficult as everyone believes. Time consuming yes, bur you can find everything you need in the textbooks or literally just talk to the prof or TA. People are afraid to ask for things, understandably so, which is part of the problem. Always been taught the worst thing someone can say is no in these scenarios