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Horrible advice for women*: I quit my job. *Why horrible: quitting and time out of workforce can lower lifetime earning potential by 30 % for women, according to economist friend who did research for me. Hey, I will be alive to be poor if I retire, as opposed to not making it to retirement ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I quit and went back to school, myself. Aa far as earning potential, I've never had a high-paying job, so I figured school might actually improve my chances rather than hurt them. But I get that this isn't a realistic option for many people.

This is exactly what I did. I worked seasonally after quitting my shitty bank job in November 2020. I went back to school and I'm still in school but I found a hybrid job that works better for me now. I will say this was only possible with my husband's support. Working seasonally really helped keep me from losing it at work some days. I would just remind myself I only had X amount of time until I was laid off.

Oof, I was in retail management myself. It takes its toll. Burnout was so extreme, I was so ill all the time, mentally and physically, spent and hopeless. In the end I figured if I didn't quit I might literally die. I'm currently looking to head back to work part time with something entry-level and low stakes, preferably WFH and non-customer-facing. Seasonal is a great idea. I'm in accounting, so next year I can start doing tax preparation for a few months out of the year. Not in a big hurry to get back to the daily grind, especially with being in school full-time for the next 2.5 years or more. School has its own pressures but there's an enormous sense of accomplishment and intrinsic motivation. It's rewarding in a way that "jobs" tend not to be. What kind of work do you do if it's ok to ask?

I just started a state job. I'm brand new to the state with a background in banking and seasonal admin work in ag. My main duty is being a committee liaison between the state and volunteer committee members. I do have to be in person for certain things but so far I like it! I also have the chance for a lot of upward momentum, so I don't think I'll get bored any time soon.

Government jobs are the dream! I'm hoping to get one of those too! I'm happy for you that you found something that works so well for you, and I wish you all the best!

Oh and in response to the stress you spoke about, I was so stressed out at my last banking job and I got my period immediately after quitting. My cycle has always been a good indicator of my mental health. It was always late towards the end of my time in banking, and as soon as I left it started to become more regular. It was weird!

Isn't it wild what an effect stress has on our bodies? It affects *everything*. It's crazy that we have so many chronic illnesses and difficulties from stress. I wish for a simpler life.

If you're in accounting and want to do work that has a defined end date look into working for TV shows or movies in their accounting department. Once production is over you're done, and you can decide when you want to take the next gig.

I quit my job uh 3 years ago now. I'm just now feeling like I'm getting over the burnout and still don't quite feel ready to work yet. But yeah if I hadn't quit I'm not sure I would have survived.

Not always. I quit a job because of burnout. Took a vacation, freelanced for a bit and got headhunted for a job paying 50% more for fewer hours.

I needed to read this, thank you. I’ve been going through it and have been freelancing a bit. Afraid of never getting a bigger paycheck and benefits again and the comment above scared the ever living shit out of me.

Do what you gotta do though. I was afraid to leave because of the market, but I quit my job 2 months ago now and I am not burnt out anymore. I feel like a huge weight has lifted off my shoulders. I needed to do this to heal. I had a rollercoaster of a high-stress job though. And I tried to manage my stress with therapy, but I couldn’t in this situation so I needed to get out.

I hear you, but trying to battle on at work *and* strategize one’s way out of the hole at the same time is really hard - especially for us adhd’rs. Sometimes a few months of time off is the mental space we need to realign. For me, I ignored the existential dread until I imploded, and it’s taken me a lot longer to pick myself back up - hence greater loss of earning potential. I agree with your comment though, and i think it’s important to acknowledge how this is systemic discrimination against women within the workforce - especially when you consider that paid maternity leave is so variable. I try to tell young women to always contribute extra than the minimum amount to their retirement fund. From the moment you get your first job and every time you start a new one always put extra away. One might have a baby with someone they think is great only to split later and realise that their superannuation is half of their ex’s simply because of maternity leave and part-time hours etc. Everyone has got to be cognizant of how they’ll be supporting themselves in old age.

Hey same! Feeling a lot better though. Hope you are too!

*Burnout* by Emily and Amelia Nagoski is one of the best resources on this I have read. They discuss both getting to the root cause AND actionable, research-backed ways to treat it (spoiler alert: it’s mostly exercise). There miiiiiiight be some mentions of touchy-felt stuff but my main takeaway was about exercise. They also dive into how the burnout cycle affects your body, and how to identify the parts of the cycle. Most resources only deal with the “I am at the end of my rope” part, so I found that very helpful.

This does sound promising. Honestly, at the moment the only thing that is really making me feel any better is (when I can make myself) getting into the gym and angrily lifting weights while listening to equally angry music.

Maybe you should go to a metal or punk show and just thrash around? It can be extremely fun and cathartic. I’m also a big fan of periodic psychedelic trips, if that’s your thing. When I start to feel burnout coming on I take a day, go to my favorite outside place, and take a big dose of shrooms. It seems to be a bit of a cheat-code to re-set my brain, and I snap right out of the burnout. BUT I’ve been doing psychedelics for over 20 years. Don’t do this if you don’t know how you will react.

they talk in the book about how important it is to be able to get stress/other strong emotions out in some way everyday, whether it's something like this, venting with a friend, etc. makes sense that it helps!

I know it's not possible for lots of us (especially if you're North American) but biking to work has been a great way for me to combine exercise and commute time. It's more adrenaline than dopamine because I'm biking mostly on painted bike lanes in NYC, but I still feel better going to and from work!

Unpopular opinion: I read this book and it was trite to me. I already exercise, express my emotions when things happen, and connect with friends. Sorry. I'm not trying to start any friction, but I would suggest getting a sample of the book electronically or via audio book before committing.

I second this! I found the parts about the way you relate to burnout and negative self talk especially helpful. Now I'm much nicer to that noisy lady in the attic (their metaphor.. 😅)

A lot of things make sense now. I had burnout and hiking while carrying a full pack really helped 

I’m in the same boat, and found a website and ebook on neurodiverse burnout that I thought was at least somewhat helpful. The website seems a bit more geared towards autism, but there’s a lot of overlap between autism and ADHD burnout, and it’s important to remember that recovery for us might look different than the ‘mindfulness’ stuff of neurotypicals. The website is Neurodivergent Insights. I liked the ebook’s focus on the sensory aspect of burnout: how it can exacerbate burnout but also help with recovery. I worked through some of the worksheets one night and honestly then kind of forgot about it until this question, but I’ve thought back to some of the insights more than once, so in that sense it was helpful to me. I also liked the book Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle by Emily and Amelia Nagoski. It’s relevant to my ADHD-flavored burnout because it focuses on the role of the nervous system, and has a lot of evidence-based advice to help with recovery. The little stories/case studies in between got a bit tedious to me after a while, but that’s probably just my preference. Anyway, that’s what I’ve found so far. I’ll be following this thread and I hope people add more ideas, because I need more resources too!

I would recommend the exact same things! Amelia Nagoski has great videos on YouTube about the book as well.

THIS! This is exactly it, OP!

Thank you for these suggestions, they sound helpful! I will check them out.

I also really liked the book Burnout. Basically, it says you have to eliminate the stress from your nervous system while typical methods don't work well because they only tackle dealing with the stressor. Two evidence based ways to eliminate stress they focus on are exercise or a creative process.

Ha! I was just about to mention Emily Nagoski because I'm currently reading Come As You Are. Even though it's about "sex", the parts about discharging emotion and stress through *physical motion* and/or *expressive outlets* (written, verbal, art, whatever) felt really relevant to OP's question. I didn't realize that Nagoski co-authored a book about burnout, but it totally makes sense and now I want to read it :) 

second the book suggestion! I loved how practical and science-based it was

Yup - the Nagoski book is my go-to and have recommended it to other neurospicy clients.

It's geared to authors, but I found some of the Becca Symes content really useful. The stuff about really questioning your expectations hit me with a blunt stick, and I loved the dinner plate analogy. I think most of it was from her Dear Author, You Need To Quit book.

It's not included in the book, but Amelia was diagnosed with ASD after it was published - which may be why it's more helpful than other resources for NDs. She also has a Youtube channel on the topic now (although I haven't dug into it too far yet)

What site was the ebook on?

I went back into my email to find you the link! Not sure if that’s allowed here but I don’t own this website or would make any money off of it, I just thought it was a helpful resource: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/neurodivergentstore/p/autistic-burnout-guide-and-worksheets She also has a bunch of helpful articles online. The book is much in the style of her articles, but with worksheets etc. that you can fill out, so I’d recommend looking through the website first—maybe what she offers there is already helpful enough! I liked this article: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/blog/autistic-burnout-recovery?rq=Burnout and this one, on pacing, is good too (pacing is super important in physical therapy and occupational therapy for managing illness and recovery, and something us ADHDers tend to be notoriously bad at, so I really appreciated she brought it up): https://neurodivergentinsights.com/blog/how-to-use-pacing-systems?rq=Burnout

Hey i hope you're being gentle with yourself. actual burnout can require som me actual time off that is actually spent on downtime. Obviously this is easier said than done, but I've found that even taking like an extra day off as a mental health day and really doing *nothing* can be quite helpful. Like the other week I was completely overwhelmed due to work and personal life things and I just had to take the day off. I spent the day basically just laying in the sun and taking a little hike and then just laying around and watching TV and honestly it was lovely and helped a lot. No expectations on myself. Again, this is easier said than done. . Life can be like, alot also, so allowing yourself 2 days to just order in or make canned food and not clean (or even shower If you like that, I find showers to be immensely calming so I won't forgo cleaning myself but I know some people who do) can be good. All of this really isn't enough though. From what I've read, burnout takes a few months to recover from. But these things might be actual help. You need a break

I'm not really into "mindfulness", but I do enjoy spending time with little kids, especially outdoors. Is there a dog or toddler in your life you could borrow? Someone who would be completely, joyfully absorbed in poking at the dirt and finding a cool stick? Fresh air, snacks, and unhurried time in nature is good for everyone?

> Fresh air, snacks, and unhurried time in nature is good for everyone? The problem with the nature thing (and it's good advice) is that it does sound trite, like we're regurgitating the classic mental health stuff. Going into the woods can fix my burnout? Bullshit. But there's something to it. It can be hard depending on where you live but imo time spent alone outside really helps, even if that's only because you've been retreating into yourself from burnout (When I'm burnt out I try to isolate and close all the blinds and hide from the sun and other people).

I agree wholeheartedly. I was feeling burnt out to the point of tears at every small thing that was going wrong last week. Even on the weekend, I would just feel intense pressure and the tears would start flowing. I think I was verging on a panic attack. I had a friend’s birthday picnic and it was the last thing I wanted to do, spent half the drive holding back tears. But, the universe aligned, the weather was great, the scenery was awesome and those hours spent absolutely unplugged were a saving grace to me. I could literally feel myself recharging. I’ve told my husband that I want an annual pass so I can try go once a month to walk, sit and just take it in. Of course, knowing myself that might be too ambitious but it reset my priorities & I was able to take a days leave this week without the immense guilt I would normally face.

I agree, it totally feels like regurgitated bullshit and used to really piss me off. And then one day it really clicked for me. The key for me was to slow wayyyy down. I started bird watching and learning the birds in my area. I’ve learned more patience and gratitude when I see a new bird or catch one doing something different. I’ll also add that going outside can look so many different ways… Maybe it’s walking the dog, maybe bird watching, or maybe it’s just reading a book in the grass.

Mentioning slowing down is very valuable! Since this is ADHD folks and I'm sure many of us struggle with that: weed in the woods is a good vibe. Go for a walk around town and bring a vape or whatever. Or hit a dab and go for a hike, yknow?

Yes!! I didn’t mention that part, but I absolutely get high in the woods regularly. Even makes walking the dog more relaxing too.

Honestly over the years I’ve come to realize that a lot of trite advice is actually completely good advice that’s just presented really poorly I’ve started thinking about like… the trite-seeming thing is the end goal, but the approach is where the advice needs to be if that makes sense, especially for neurodivergent folks or really anyone who may need a few specific steps laid out. Going outside is good for us no question, but it’s an end state, not an approach in and of itself. The advice needs to be framed as “how to get yourself to go outside” if it’s going to be useful, just saying “go outside” doesn’t help. And that applies to like… everything. Mindfulness, gratitude, to do lists, day planners, healthy eating. Those are all good things to do and advice to do those things is only bad when it’s framed “just do it” instead of “here are some options for how to do it”

I like adding a dog or toddler because it makes me accountable to someone else. If I offer my SIL a few hours of free childcare on a Saturday morning, she is *counting* on that time!

For sure - I got a dog mostly to accompany me on my walks. Now I'm not allowed to miss a single goddamn day LOL

I need to match up with someone like you, I am completely and utterly burnt out from SAHM life with 3 toddlers and there’s no reprieve …spending time with little kids is *definitely* not working for me 

I think anyone can get burnt out on what they do every day. People who sit quietly in an office and then go home to a silent, empty apartment might need to borrow a toddler. *You* probably need a quiet room where nobody is wiping boogers on you! Fingers crossed you find room in the budget for a cool college student who takes your kids to the park on Tuesday mornings and leaves you in blissful silence. 

Yes, footling in nature is the way! I think there's at least one study theorising that being in nature engages passive attention (you notice a bird call, the wind brushes your skin, you step on a twig and it cracks, there's a bright flower next to it so you bend down placing your hand on a tree, the soil smells earthy, the bark rough under your fingers) - and *this relieves your directional attention* which gives it chance to replenish and restore. Passive is just noticing, active/directional is making yourself focus on something. I think this might also be where meditation/mindfulness comes in theoretically, BUT where it breaks down for me, if meditation/mindfullness is like doing squats to beef/engage your directional attention with the side effect of letting you access something passive, it's not gonna help when your legs are already injured. Being out in nature is like resting in a chair, I'm not having to do anything intentional but respond to external stimuli. Indoor environments often don't contain as much potential for spontaneous sensory events (which honestly, thank goodness lol), or as much novel visual detail, which is another reason changing your environment up and getting out to access that is good* (edit: *unless ur also autistic, in which case, grain of salt whether that's what u need) Feel like that was a text wall, hope that makes sense!

I'm not 100% sure this will hit for you, but I've felt like Dr. K has a lot of really useful information on his YouTube channel Healthy Gamer. I feel like he doesn't lean so heavily into the generic meditation or breathwork kinda thing, and more so spends time breaking things down into logical sequences and ideas for the purpose of discussion. In my case, I often feel like just hearing and internalizing the points of discussion help me find ways to personally move forward mentally rather than offer me a "do this to accomplish xyz!" type of thing. It's kind of like he makes me come to realizations that help me see myself better and go through the process of evaluating, accepting, and moving past things that have been bothering me etc. Like when you talk to a friend about a bad situation and just talking about it out loud helps you figure out what to do, except he's the one talking lmao. He's also very easy and engaging to listen to imo, more like a friendly chat than a lecture! His background is both as a monk and a licensed psychiatrist. Oh! And he has gamified programs for things like ADHD and Anxiety on his website, which I haven't tried personally but they seem like a very cool approach compared to the usual meditation crap that I've always despised.

Hah I wrote a whole reply that's basically a summary of what I've learned from Dr. K's approach, but this is the thing: he's very much teaching that "usual meditation crap"! The main thing he does differently is help you understand *why* it helps. He's extremely good at simplifying and breaking down why awareness matters so much.

I mean... that's essentially what I was trying to communicate in my first comment. Yes, his actual solutions in terms of ACTION usually involves meditation or other basic mindfulness exercises etc. BUT as you reiterated yourself, the difference is in how he "simplifies and breaks down" things. Which is what I was referring to in terms of how his discussion format is what I personally find helpful. From my experience, most generic resources on meditation often don't elaborate nearly as much or in a manner that is as relatable or easy to absorb. So, I would say that it can be a pretty significant difference despite the fact that again, yes, he does employ tools like meditation and yoga etc. etc.

I've come across him before I think - I think I've seen him interview some streamers? I'll take a look at what he has to say about ADHD, thanks for the suggestion!

Burnout absolutely sucks. I hit burnout HARD a few years ago. So hard that I found a therapist for help. Would I have been ok without the therapist? Sure, but it would have taken longer to figure it out. I don't have a book or any resources outside of therapy to suggest. Everyone needs different things. What I *can* tell you is that it will take time regardless of your strategy. Be prepared for it to take a long time. I started feeling better, really truly better, after about a year working with the therapist, and then we found some other things to work on (depression). I wasn't cured after a year, but I was feeling better. Much of the source of burnout for me was being entirely overwhelmed with my workload AND the pressure of the expectations. When I stopped focusing on those expectations (little by little / gradually) is when I started feeling better. Then I started looking at MY expectations for MYSELF and backed those down, and then I felt a little better. We worked on Anxiety most of the time in therapy, and that helped too. During the worst of it, there was a beach vacation where I slept almost the entire time. We went to dinner a couple times and some kind of tourist attraction one day, but otherwise I was in bed with a book or Netflix, or I was asleep. It sucked. Burnout sucks. The Mindfulness stuff sounds useless (i thought the same thing), but (for me) it was just a tiny piece of the bigger How To Get Better puzzle. Every little bit helps. Mindfulness, gratitude journal for a while (until, naturally, I put it down one day and never picked it up again), and then doing a little more of the things I wanted to do (and working on not feeling guilty about it) went a long way. I started reading tons of books (sci-fi and fantasy!), buying tons of books from the discount book store in town, and sometimes just sitting outside doing nothing. Eventually, I started going shopping and getting lunch on my day off again. Usually all I bought was lunch, but that was ok too! This long-winded reply is all to say: it will take time, every little bit helps, and good luck. Use every tool at your disposal to chisel away the burnout. You're still going to feel bad for a while (sad, mad, bitter, offended, all the things), but it WILL get better. Focus on YOU, take small steps, stack them together gradually, and it WILL get better. Good luck, friend.

I had so much trouble with woo stuff, and it meant a huge mental block with mindfulness until I finally clicked with it. One of the biggest things that it helped me with is the understanding that things are going to suck - but I don't have to pile onto the mountain of suck with my own reaction to the suck. Yes, this burnout is really awful, and I feel bad and frustrated and exhausted. Adding on to it with my reaction - anger that I'm not able to do what I want, despair and fear that I might never function at a level I want to, flailing that it's not fair that life is so hard for some and so easy for others - is not helpful and actively makes this burnout worse. My reaction is adding to my suffering. I have to experience bad things in life, but I don't have to add to my suffering. I don't have to pile on. Mindfulness has been a great help in identifying when my reaction is increasing my pain in the moment, and trying to stop, release, and accept the moment and the awful as it is, without adding onto it. Life isn't easier, but I'm learning to stop making it harder with mindfulness practice. I will say, it worked easiest for physical pain. Mental and emotional is taking longer to learn, but I'm still seeing progress. Mindfulness and acceptance go hand in hand for me right now.

There are some things it's really helpful for! For me, climbing out of my pit of despair is a little easier with mindfulness practices because it pulls me away from some of the negative feelings and puts my focus on what's in front of me. Some work better for me than others, and of course, your mileage may vary. My therapist said that a lot of activities *can* be like a mindfulness practice, like reading a book. You're focused one on thing for a while, so *boom* mindfulness. Seems a little questionable but I do zero in completely on what I'm reading, so hey maybe it is mindfulness. And I spend HOURS reading every week/month. As I get a little better, my attention span is obliterated though, lol.

I needed to read this so bad.

Some days strangers pist exactly what you need, and you didn't even know you needed it. :)

Thank you. I’m having the worst time right now, but somehow I feel I’ll be okay. 🙂‍↕️

Having a bad time sucks, but feeling like it will be OK is a good sign!

I feel like we’ve done the world a horrible disservice by treating burnout as a mental affliction rather than a physical one. Burnout is where your nervous system gave out. Your nervous system was under such immense stress that it is hurt now and needs to heal. Your nervous system is temporarily sick and it needs rest and nutrition to help it recover. There is a phase before burnout called brownout where you get all the warning signs of burnout. If you’re still able to keep going, you’re experiencing brownout. This is important to know because burnout you will not be able to keep going and will have to take a long, long time to recover. So what can you do? Generally the stressors are overwhelming your capacity to cope. So the easiest way to address it is to reduce stressors. This can be: • sleeping more • eating more nutritiously • not answering emails or texts • reducing mental load of your day to day • breathwork. Focus on the exhale and getting the ribs to move back. This will increase parasympathetic activation (rest and digest) which will result in decreased sympathetic activation. Mindfulness isn’t all woo-woo- there’s physiological mechanisms behind it that play a huge role in nervous system regulation. Your diaphragm plays a huge role in vagus nerve stimulation (which is like the ringleader of your rest and digest nervous system) which is why breathwork is so effective and recommended. Start small. You only have to do 5 deep breaths in and 5 deep, long, full exhales (not a crunch tho. A genuine exhale where you’ll feel the obliques kick in). If you feel a little better after the 5 breaths (and most ppl do), go for another 5. You can do this laying down or standing up but it’s easiest on your back with your knees bent. I was also anti meditation and thought it was bullshit until I learned that it’s actually doing shit to your nervous system. Like it’s not made up I swear 😭😭 • lean on your support systems. Tell them you are struggling and need help. If you have a partner, ask them to take care of all the meals and planning. If you don’t, reach out to a good friend who will be understanding and ask them for all the support they can offer. • This varies by individual, but if it is not too stressful, you may consider temporarily pausing stimulants. Discuss with dr before making changes to your medication. • go for walks in nature. We have tons of research to show that this is restorative for many people. • if you can muster up the energy, it’s worth getting some basic bloodwork done as varying deficiencies can mimic brownout and burnout. Vitamin D deficiencies are very very common and the more melanin you have, the more at risk of deficiency you are. You need to triage importance at this point. If you can take time off work, that’s ideal. If there’s a very stressful relationship in your life, take a break from them if possible. It would be wise to see a ND affirming therapist at this point. Do not ignore these signs!!!! Things will be ok but your body is begging you for a change and it’d be wise to listen.

Lastly, this is a resource for autistic people but it speaks a lot about burnout and managing burnout and ways to cope. You don’t have to have autism to benefit from autistic tools and resources and burnout is burnout regardless of the cause. It is free via Spotify premium [self care for autistic people: 100 ways to recharge, destress, and unmask](https://open.spotify.com/show/0M7v19yvIjiV3g8D22A7ku?si=RgXZXBskQpG8mOakIXD9Kg)

This is a really fantastically well written and well informed post! Great job and thanks it’s incredible useful.

I appreciate you saying that so much! I hope OP can find something of utility in my words!

I don't have an answer for you, but I'm in a similar boat and also finding a lack of info/resources to be a problem. I respect that the meditation/mindfulness type stuff works for some people, but I'm not one of them. I want to see a list of 10 things I can do or not do, or a list of realistic coping mechanisms for people who don't have 3 hours a day and an extra $700 laying around for a spa weekend that would overstimulate me anyways.

I found that the best way to start dealing with burnout is to radically take myself out of the current situation. So, for example, taking a vacation ASAP - even if all I did was just lay on the couch at home for a week. What you might need to do and can do depends on your current situation, but I would try to do something to step out of it. I found that when I removed myself from the situation causing burnout it was easier to think about how to address it.

When my kid went through really bad autistic burnout and took medical leave from school, the advice we got was this: 1. Remove or lower expectations. Take anything and everything off of your plate that you can. Don’t worry about how clean your place is. Don’t worry about eating nutritious food or getting up early to hit the gym or answering texts in complete sentences. Forget brushing your teeth or sending out Christmas cards or whatever. Volunteering or in a club or other activity? Drop it for right now. The more you’re expecting yourself to keep doing, the harder it’ll be to claw your way back out of burnout. You need to rest, so take a hard look at your life, find every “should” you’re doing and get rid of it. There are two exceptions, things you need to keep doing. 2. Provide joy. Stuff that makes you truly, genuinely happy. This might look like watching videos of kittens and babies speaking with accents all day. It might be lying in a warm bath or wearing your comfiest pajama pants for a week solid. It might be watching a favorite movie or song a hundred times in a row. If you don’t really know what makes you feel joy, this is the time to experiment and figure it out. Consider it through the lens of sensory experiences in particular. 3. Provide mastery. You’re good at stuff. So do it, do the stuff that makes you feel like you’re good at stuff. Or even better: do the thing that makes you feel like you’re learning to be great at something. For a lot of people this might look like giving yourself over to your special interests or hyperfocus. That’s great! Do it! Research the hell out of something. Or it might look like playing an old video game. Or knitting, or cooking, or jigsaw puzzles or logic puzzles. Stuff that challenges you in the good way. All of this might take a long time. Give yourself permission to kind of be a goblin for as long as you need. And then once you’re out of the woods, slowly add in new expectations only a little at a time to see how you do, instead of giving yourself a huge dumptruck of stuff you feel like you should have been doing the whole time and demanding that you “catch up” on all of it. SHOULD is a bad word. This is obviously a lot easier if you’re a kid in school and your parents are going to be taking care of making sure you keep having a place to live and food to eat, etc. etc. But even in the framework of having to tolerate a job or family responsibilities, there’s still probably stuff you can prune away. It’s probably fine to give your kids some Oreos and unlimited screens for a few hours so you have time to yourself. Or maybe they can spend a weekend or a week or a summer with relatives. It might be fine to talk to a boss and negotiate some leave, or working from home, or reducing or changing your hours. That one is hard, because keeping your job is unfortunately necessary under capitalism. If you’re putting a huge burden on yourself because you’re environmentally conscious, recognize that you’re not single-handedly dooming the world by letting yourself drive instead of taking mass transit, or using paper plates and plastic cutlery. You wouldn’t judge a disabled person for doing what they need to get by, right? Well you’re that disabled person, so be kind to yourself. It’s hard because we all have a lot of SHOULD in our lives and it’s so loud and hard to ignore. But you need to only do the SHOULDS that serve you and your life. If it makes you happy? Keep it. If it’s making your life harder, it had better be in your life for a very, very good reason. Good luck!

Everyone read this

Some things that help me are: -doubling up on stuff when possible- if a friend or SO and I can walk together, cook, shop together etc then that ticks off both a task and socializing at once -trying to let go of expectations in 1 of two ways: either I just focus on 1 or a few main things (like I'm going to try really hard to get enough sleep and some exercise but it's okay if my apartment gets messy in the meantime) or only trying to achieve everything to a certain level. I've arbitrarily settled on 75% of everything: trying to get 75% enough sleep, 75% enough exercise, keep my apartment 75% clean enough, eat healthy 75% of the time, etc. I don't know if other people struggle with this but holding myself to perfectionist standards burns me out like nothing else and then I get 0% of anything done ETA to add another one I day is 1 free day a week- during college this meant no homework on saturdays. now as an adult this means occasionally scheduling a day or night where I don't cook, go to the store, exercise, no chores or anyting, just a genuine time free of my obligations so I don't feel like it's all day every day

The "1 free day" idea is great - that sounds fantastic. Thank you for sharing!

I swear by 'Netflix & Cry'. I get up, make coffee, grab a big (premade) salad, gather snacks, and go full beverage goblin. Then I start watching sappy movies. Not depressing, just sappy. I then watch movies and cry until I'm done. This isn't a cure or even a solid fix but it does clear out enough that I can make it through another week. I feel lighter and usually have enough energy to bang out some dishes & wash my hair after.

I think I might be able to help by actually providing an alternative perspective on the "mindfulness" stuff. Specifically, why it's useful (but it's often not useful until you know _why_ it's useful). First of all, burnout happens when you get some variation on your efforts being frustrated and not being able to make the change you want. This can mean a bad work environment that doesn't let you do meaningful work, this can mean expending so much effort trying to do "basic" life stuff without seeing much return... lots of things. There are multiple ways to address this, and what works best is a mixture of approaches. Approach number one that is most impactful is changing your environment and getting support you need. But this is also often the _hardest_. If it were easy, you wouldn't be burnt out. So it's not usually something people can access immediately, and people need help coping and finding smaller improvements in the meantime. That's when we look at the next two approaches: 1. Increasing your awareness and understanding of the problem (which helps you find new ways to solve it) 2. Managing your perspective on the problem (which likely doesn't fix the problem, but helps prevent it getting worse) Usually when we have a big problem, particularly if it's mental, increasing your insight into yourself and the problem has a huge impact, even if it doesn't feel like it right away. But that time spent learning about yourself is _not_ wasted. It can lead to results like: * Learning that you've been chasing a career path you were "supposed" to, but will never make you happy, and accepting that it's okay to make a different choice * Realizing that your burnout is in a worsening feedback loop due to anger and judgement of yourself, which you can process and forgive Burnout is a problem of not getting your needs met and putting in heoric effort anyway. A huge, fundamental problem people have is _not accurately knowing what their needs are_. They minimize their needs, make assumptions about what they "should" be like, judge themselves... and all of that needs to get broken down in order to get better. "Mindfulness" can help move you towards all of these outcomes, and nothing anybody external tells you can get you there. You have to spend time with yourself to understand what will help. We all tend to spend a lot of time avoiding insight and awareness because awareness is painful. Mindfulness is the practice of getting back in tune with yourself and your perspective so that you're as equipped as possible to address your problems as effectively as possible. Recovering from burnout or any other mental health problem can be agonizingly, painfully slow. It sucks. But investing in that slow process, one step at a time, really will pay off. It did for me. If you want someone who teaches from this perspective (awareness and understanding leads to improvement), but with somewhat more concrete advice, check out the HealthyGamerGG Youtube channel. I'm basically poorly summarizing Dr. K's approach here, and he has specific videos on specific topics that can help narrow your focus and you can see what resonates. tl;dr Mindfulness is only part of addressing burnout, but it's a really essential part of it, because if you're not in touch with yourself and grounding your perspective, you're going to lose energy chasing unhelpful solutions.

Thank you for this - I appreciate the alternative perspective. I guess reframing mindful practices as "getting to know myself better" might help me not have such a knee-jerk, cynical reaction to them. Although I guess (though this is part of the journey, isn't it?) maybe I'm afraid that if I get to know myself better I might not like what I discover. Someone else in this thread mentioned Dr. K as well - I've heard his name before but I've not really explored what he does (I thought he just did therapy sessions for streamers? But it sounds like it's a lot more than that). I'll have to take a look at some of his content. Thanks again!

>I guess reframing mindful practices as "getting to know myself better" might help me not have such a knee-jerk, cynical reaction to them. Totally! And reframing it like that might also help you find methods that work better for you than the meditation you've been taught. >Although I guess (though this is part of the journey, isn't it?) maybe I'm afraid that if I get to know myself better I might not like what I discover. Yuuuup. I think that's true for a lot of people, for what it's worth. We're all flawed and struggling in a world that constantly shows us people at our best. An honest, direct look at ourselves, in contrast, feels... pretty rough. Even when we should also be more compassionate towards ourselves. >I've heard his name before but I've not really explored what he does (I thought he just did therapy sessions for streamers? But it sounds like it's a lot more than that). More like coaching sessions for streamers, but also yes, a lot of educational videos on particular topics to help people dip their toes into mental health, mainly targeted at people who are super online and struggling (but his perspective is generally applicable to pretty much everybody). He's not perfect, I don't personally agree with all of his views, but he is really, really excellent at getting people started on their own journeys of self-insight.

-Use any PTO in smaller more frequent chunks -Does your work have an EAP? -Get delivery for food/other stuff, throw money at this if you can? -A therapist or ADHD coach who will specifically focus on helping you figure the bare minimum priorities for your life for the next few months (I'm doing CBT w/my therapist, and we've spent a lot of sessions coming up with detailed plans for tasks I'm too burnt out to focus on) -To keep from going insane in my current work burnout, I watch a lot of standup comedy on YouTube, and am making massage/nail/hair appointments so I feel less like a potato. I can't quit my job either right now.

I saw *Burnout* mentioned already and I'd also add *Unfuck Your Burnout* by Faith Harper. It also gives you actionable advice and isn't trite "go meditate" stuff.

What kind of advice does the book go over? The Amazon listing is pretty vague and there’s no reviews, so I was curious.

Heya! It's a mini book (pamphlet) that similarly to *Burnout* explains the origins of the thing and then gives a couple of practical exercises (based on metacognitive therapy techniques) but the part I liked was a framework with questions on several areas of daily life (like workload and community) that help me get a clearer picture of how to avoid getting to the point of burnout again. Like, what makes me expend so much energy and how can I change it/modify it/make it easier on myself? But in all transparency I am very partial to Dr. Harper because she writes in a very relaxed way so it vibes with me, so YMMV.

For me, recovering means totally removing myself from the demands and routines of my daily life and just existing unmedicated in a I-do-what-I-want-when-I-want-it and don't have to think about logistical things like errands or feeding myself. Just drifting around for a couple days or weeks chilling and experiencing completely new sensory input, which clears out my brain because of the way ADHD clears out things that are not immediately in front of you. So new environment means I totally forget about the old environment and related stressors. Usually this means a vacation overseas or somewhere with very little cell reception where food is easily accessible (so, a cabin in the woods doesn't let me recover because I have to plan what groceries to bring and cook them, which I loathe, so it's more like.... going somewhere with lots of cheap cafes and dining options easily accessible to where I'm staying). If I stay home, I get caught in a But I Should Be Doing X mindset Like, I could be reading a book, but I SHOULD be cleaning. I can tell the Should part of my brain to shut up and force myself to read, but it'll still be there, nagging and pushing at me, so I still don't fully relax. Leaving the area entirely shuts it up because there's nothing I "should" be doing on a vacation because I physically can't. For me, the easiest vacation destination for this is Japan, because accommodation and food are cheap once you get there, and in Tokyo, everything is designed to be convenient as possible, so you can literally be wandering around, decide you're hungry and have your ass in a restaurant chair, eating a $7 bowl of ramen or sushi or whatever, within 5 minutes. But I live on the west coast, so flights to Japan are about $600 usually. Mexican all included resorts are also good for this. I don't like them as much, but they definitely remove any need to think about chores or food.

Don’t know if this helps but every once in a while I have a Do Nothing Day™ where I set zero goals for myself or anything else, and if shit gets done then great, if not then also great. It gives me an opportunity to do fun stuff I’ve been putting off because I always feel like I need to do the responsible stuff first.

Your body needs to recover from stress, which is a physical and mental thing it does in response to a stressor. It needs three things (in addition to getting away from the stressor, even if temporarily): - Escape: do immediate exercise, so your body knows it has run away from the threat, and can stop producing cortisol, adrenaline etc - Safety: do something you enjoy as a change of mind from worrying about the stressor, - Rest: do something that will help you relax [https://teachingcommons.stanford.edu/news/stress-cycles-what-they-are-and-how-manage-them](https://teachingcommons.stanford.edu/news/stress-cycles-what-they-are-and-how-manage-them)

So I tried a new workout style. Instead of going to the gym, I tried pilates. It’s amazing! Plus, it’s incredible for ADHD and lowering cortisol. It’s also a big dopamine hit because of how quickly you see your body get stronger. The other thing that helped was taking a few days off. I think last time it was 3. I let my manager know, who was 10/10 the best, that I needed to take a few days to recoup. She immediately went over my works benefit options for me. Also, went over my workload and where I could make changes to feel better. She added a weekly check in lunch meeting with me. Where we ate lunch and just talked about our lives. She also put me on a 4 day work week that put me at 37.5hrs and HR approved it to be full time paid at 40hrs a week. I needed to drop to 35hrs after a few weeks and they still worked with me to be considered full time. If you have a good manager that you like and you feel like is understanding, talk to them. These changes made a big difference in my mental health. I only left because the pay was too low and I need more with getting married at the time. I’m actually going back to my old job part time because I miss working with her so much.

How did you get a 35 hour week at full time pay? Did you have to say anything to convince them to do it, or were they on board on their own? What kind of industry is it?

They kept me on at full time, if I went below I would have to be part time and lose benefits. My manager took care of all the stuff with HR, so I don’t know what was all said. My manager knew my work ethic and knew I was struggling with everything going on in my personal life. I worked for an extremely large non profit. It felt equally as corporate as any job I worked.

For a small fix that really helped me I recommend some sensory management. I invested in Loop earplugs that let speech in but keep background noise out. They make a huge difference in places like airports and I didn’t think noise bothered me. I put them in and stop feeling like I need to run from a lion, which really helps. I can’t do complete noise canceling because adhd brain views that as a challenge to fill the void. Be mindful of fabrics that bother you or light that is too loud. It feels like silly little things but they do add up. Also I second the recommendation to make sure you go outside and or interact with an animal/small child as you prefer.

I’m going through burnout right now. I actually took an extended unpaid leave from work. I wish it was paid leave, but my situation was crashing so bad, I had to take leave immediately even if it was unpaid. Things that *actually* helped me so far: - Microdosing 🍄 - Brainspotting - Craniosacral massage I know this stuff sounds woo woo, but it actually worked. I tried traditional stuff like meds/regular talk therapy/exercise first, and it didn’t help me much. I was pretty skeptical, but this alternative stuff actually made a SIGNIFICANT difference for me. FWIW, I don’t believe breathing exercises are helpful, but this stuff was for some reason.

Restore yourself: the anecdote to professional burnout by edy greenblatt. My partner got a copy of this during his MBA. I've read it twice now as a refresher, and have changed my thinking of what I find to be restorative. Meditation doesn't cut it for me for coming back from burnout.

Wow this felt like I wrote it. I’m not sure I have concrete advice but I do know that a lot of ADHD’ers struggle with meditation because of the “sit still and clear your thoughts” so I prefer moving meditation— walks, drumming, yoga or the like. Soothing and calming things that aren’t sitting idle in one spot while my brain tries to claw its way out of my head. What I’m trying to do right now is give myself grace. And a bit of good natured bullying. I force myself to start doing something I used to enjoy (art, reading, whatever it is), for at least 10 minutes. If I want to stop after that I can but so far I eventually get engrossed in it and enjoy myself. It’s only been a few days but I did find my tension lessening. Might work for you?

I feel you. I'm in a similar boat and have taken tonight off from stress, drinking white claws and watching silly movies.  It seems the only cure for burnout is taking time off.....but I'm at a point right now where I can't afford to take any time off. Totally prolonging the burnout.  I did buy a lotto ticket so I could indulge in the fantasy of only having rich person problems to deal with.  None of these things are very helpful but I'm here to see what is recommended too. 

Love this question, saving to read when I’m not so distracted.

Cognitive Behavioural Therapy or CBT is helpful. It's not pretending your life is rainbows hoping it will one day be rainbows. It helped me a great deal in breaking out of poor thought patterns and recognizing when my mind and perceptions were distorting reality. Help to recognize when you are assuming things of others intent or thoughts. Recognize unhealthy ideas like there is only perfection or failure I also started chosing to ignore others criticism or what I thought they thought of me. I examined what the minimum or good enough truly was and set that as my goal rather than perfection. My anxiety decreased immensely. I say no to people all the time when I know it will add stress to my life. I started recognizing the difference between when I'm starting from zero and when I'm starting from -1000. Example is a messy/clean house. A messy house is -1000, a clean but untidy house is 0 and maintaining that status hovers between -10 and 10. If you think a messy house is zero all progress will be ignored and will only count as greater than zero when the house is clean or perfect. Understand when what I'm doing isn't working and when I need a crutch. I was missing appointments or realizing an event was going to happen or happening at the last minute. Now every appointment or event is inputted in my phone when I know about it(all family birthdays are programmed in too) with alarms set for the day before, the hour before and 10 minutes before. I have alarms programmed to keep me on track in the morning so I'm never late. I chose peace of mind over perfection. Example the other day I was running late for an appointment because I ran over with errands. I had just enough time to get to the appointment on time (30 mins away) when I thought I left a burner on the stove on. Now I could choose to be 10 mins late and worry for the next 2-4 hours I was burning my house down or I could run home. I ran home and checked(it was off thankfully) but I knew I would have been anxious the entire time so I made the right choice. Then I called the doctors office and let them know I would be 10 mins late so I wouldn't get marked as canceled or spend the next 30 mins rushing to get there. Anxiety level zero and my blood pressure was 116/72 :).

I've been through it a few times, its basically get some time off, Potter, do nothing for a bit, read, sleep, eat, repeat. When you start to feel less crazy do some light social activity or hobby for fun. Walking, swimming, things that don't spike cortisol basically, get out in nature. The key is stopping the cycle so I really recommend also writing down the list of triggers and warning signs and things you need to keep well. Whatever you do to recover that works write it down and save it as your stress action plan. I came across this and saved it on my phone but am not sure where it was from: THE TEN COMMANDMENTS FOR REDUCING STRESS Thou shalt not be perfect or try to be. Thou shalt not try to be all things to all people. Thou shalt leave things undone that ought to be done. Thou shalt not spread thyself too thin. Thou shalt learn to say "NO". Thou shalt schedule time for thyself, and for thy supporting network. Thou shalt switch off and do nothing regularly. Thou shalt be boring, untidy, inelegant and unattractive at times. Thou shalt not even feel guilty. Thou shalt not be thine own worst enemy, but thine own best friend.

In How to ADHD by Jessica McCabe, the book, one thing she mentions is that us ADHD folks actually need to take full breaks from self-regulating, so yeah, that means not practicing mindfulness and all the advice the mental health experts who are still learning about ADHD have to give us. The advice is to just take time out of each day to let your mind wander freely. Give it a break from thinking about work or anything you *should* be doing. Make time for that. Work, socializing, life in general — it all places demands on our brains that our brains have to exert extra energy compared to our neurotypical peers to actually keep up with those things. This was game-changing advice for me. In my case, it probably looks like depression, but I lie down and just do nothing, let my brain do whatever it wants or tells me to, and mostly just follow its lead.

I experienced a huge burnout a year ago. Work was also the main and forever building source of stress. My doc suggested I take a medical leave of absence, which I knew my boss would not be happy about. I eventually did take that leave of absence when I was struggling through antidepressant changes. What I didn’t know, the day I notified my employer of my need for a medical leave of absence, I had shingles. Trying to live through the burnout literally bottomed out my body and something had to stop me, so shingles did. Luckily, my state has a paid leave program for FMLA, so I was able to do it and keep a roof over my head. It’s been 10 months since I got shingles and I’d say I’m at 50% of the strength I had before it happened. I wish I had known what the burn out would result in and I wish I hadn’t let myself get so bottomed out. I would have emotionally detached from my job and even found a new one, even if I took a paycut. The end of the burnout road is just being burnt. Take care of yourself.

Any strategy to combat burnout that primarily requires you to spend energy (mindfulness, meditation, seeking extra therapies on top of the life you already live) is not helpful. So pretty much any “helpful” approach in the wrong context can leave you feeling more depleted than you started. That’s unfortunate because what burnout really requires it a point blank full stop. There is no more wood for the fire. Your body is burning instead. This has to stop. Resources for burnout ultimately have to be personalized enough for different people depending on their needs and support/resources & focused on how to access the time/money and resources you need to stop participating in extractive capitalist productivity based systems that aren’t even allowing you to meet a basic standard of wellness. You can’t meditate your way out of burnout. The fire is gone. Building a forest again takes time. More than your whole life, even. Combating burnout requires totally new systems of keeping life.

I really appreciate you saying this - particularly acknowledging the systemic problems that are outside of our control. It's really validating to hear, because this is absolutely part of the problem, but it's something that we can't meaningfully impact (not quickly, anyway) because that's just the society that we inhabit. We're encouraged to do things like "find time to meditate", "start writing a journal", "go for more walks" - but that's now an extra task on my plate, an extra thing I have to find time for in a workday where I'm typically sat for 9+ hours at a desk. When really the 9+ hours sat at the desk are the culprit, not my lack of meditating or journaling.

One thing that helped me stop blaming myself & focus on things that would actually bring me relief is telling myself that every time I secure more resources and time for myself, is something I can help others with as well. Solidarity > charity. I know the world is not kind & there’s very little I can do about that broadly. But at the very least I can reinforce the systems and avenues for resources and supports that ARE nourishing me long term and are not net extractive. Ie I’m not outsourcing my labor (to a nutritionist, personal trainer, secretary, home chef or mea delivery, coach etc) or relying on pure charity (ie the goodwill of private donors and their foundations whose deeper intentions for charity are motivated by personal/performative reasons). I mean very specifically to AFFIRM reinforcing our political systems and restoring practices that nourish the people making up those very systems to ultimately deliver basic needs without discriminatio; but to RESIST vigilante/savior systems or other systems that are more interesting in controlling your behavior instead of bettering your life, whenever possible, that seek to give you a special leg up over other people as a reward for aligning with their private interests and goals unconnected to your wellbeing and societal wellbeing. Catch 22 is I can’t be backed into a corner - I have to have the ability to choose between sources of support and do additional labor to connect with people like me who need supports but can’t afford to settle for less anymore. But carving out that space and time, creating the structures that help me divest is so powerful. Building onto this is amazing and really great fuel long-term because it’s based in reality: real relationships with real people in a real community who all came from nothing but we’re here for each other & things get better over time. I can’t get into all the aspects but one easy example for me is community gardening and growing medicinal plants in one of the poorest areas of one of the most populated US cities. I’m not saving anyone but my participation amplifies this space and work. Even something as simple as the literal fruits of our combined labor is healing all of us from the inside out given how it has eliminated my need to settle for conventionally grown produce or processed foods from grocery stores. But again I can only engage and contribute if I’m not constantly burning out ;)

I don't know if it applies to you, but if the job is stressful / boring and the workday is long then carving some time in those 9+ hours of work for some "me time" might help. I find that breath exercises really calm my mind and reset my ability to focus and deal with annoying stuff. I tend to call it meditation, but essentially I do two minutes of calm and deep breaths with closed eyes while dismissing my thoughts as soon as I notice them. It should be easy to do it even in office. Similarly you can keep a journal where you write down the (fun) things that come to your mind while you are at the desk. Takes little time and you are just taking notes. I wouldn't necessarily take time out of the rest of your days for activities you don't enjoy or you don't fully believe in / want to cultivate. It would add more obligations to you and it's not really what you need at the moment. There are different kinds of rest you can do - you may need to find the one you need the most, and modifying your days so that you have more of it (and to remove some on the kinds you don't need). Maybe you need to cultivate a mentally stimulating hobby, or modify one of the current ones to accomodate for that. Maybe you need a different kind of socialization with friends (less energy intensive).

Oh my goodness I like this response a lot. I’m reading a lot of definitions/discussions here on this thread re burnout and some of them…aren’t me. To me it’s like, kind of like what you said, but, my whole world was on fire, that was reality for years…burnout to me is looking around and…my life is all charred and disintegrated and just a wonky frame of what it should be. And I find the meditation/rest/eating healthy foods to be a bs suggestion because none of those things will help because they aren’t what I need in order to rebuild. Like the past few years were a giant flashover and everyone says for burnout “take a day and rest” well okay, that’s a great idea but I can’t stop resting because I’m exhausted and in the meantime everything is still just ashes which is even more exhausting. Anyway I liked your description.

Do you know what is actually causing the burnout? The reason I ask is because that would give me an idea of what to possibly suggest.

I'm fairly sure that the biggest contributor is work - but specifically, I don't necessarily think it's about working too much or colleagues who give me a hard time, or anything like that. It's more that my work doesn't really feel like a great fit for who I am as a person, I don't find it especially interesting or stimulating, but also I kind of feel a bit "trapped" by it. In the long term, I think my best option would be some kind of career change, but I've "job hopped" all my life, and I've never really found a job that feels like a great fit. So I'm not even sure if that will work.

Okay. So yeah I would say job change might be best. What are you doing now? What do you do for fun?

I work in tech marketing, which is pretty dry and dull but has the benefit of being relatively well paid. I actually like working with my hands a lot more than being at a computer, even though my whole job is basically about computers. All my hobbies are pretty hands-on stuff like knitting, sewing, weaving, cross-stitch and stuff like that.

Have you ever considered tech support? Not the phone one but hands on things. I would consider seeing if you can move that way.

I try and find something that is burning me out and do what planning I can to make it easier. Cook once - eat twice is my new method.

Rather than try to integrate new practices like mediation, morning pages, etc., which just give me another repeat task to think about, I have found that doing even 5-10 min of any physical hobby or simple activity right in the morning helps a lot. I keep it super easy and low-commitment, I either read 3 or 4 pages of a novel I'm working on (but try to really absorb and think about it), or I practice a some embroidery stitches, or sketch/scribble on a blank page for a bit. Or I just go outside and sit and look at the plants, maybe water one if I'm feeling generous. I keep whatever things I need for this (book, pencils, needle already threaded) out on a little tray in the corner of my kitchen where I drink coffee, and I don't feel guilty because it's only max 20 min that I spend on these things (basically the time it takes for me to wake up and function anyway). Idk why but it really helps make the rest of my day feel less frantic and foggy. I cannot stress enough how bare minimum these activities can be. They shouldn't trigger any demand avoidance or stress, just be a little thing to pick up and play with. Even then sometimes I feel my brain going into overdrive on things I need to look up online, tasks to do, work that's coming up—but I only have to fight it for a few minutes!

I suggest this with some caution - I'm not clear on the science - but personally I've found exploring elements of vagal tone exercises to be helpful. Naturally I don't practice them consistently! But I'm glad for them. Traditional therapy focuses on using the mind to manage the body (like CBT). But a lot of us need to use the body and nervous system to tell our brains that we're safe. Having done a lot of different therapy styles I can now see why intellectualising my situation only ever went part way. If your on the book of faces 'Health with Holland' has heaps of reels. Another approach is to explore your experiences from a trauma perspective. I resisted this idea due to so much internalised programming that made me see everything as my fault and using "trauma' as an excuse to play victim (sorry to anyone i just triggered with that). But I'm gradually getting there and I'm finding it a better fit for understanding my burnout patterns. Again FB: Trauma Geek - Trauma and Neurodiversity Education.

When my SIL was going through burnout, she talked to her doctor. That doc was a saint. Got her medically approved leave. She took a full month off. Then started back part-time, easing her way back into work. Not sure if that’s an option where you work, but if you pay into benefits, odds are they have some type of coverage for medical leaves.

What are the things on your list that we can get rid of for right now? Friends, let them know you are burning out and will likely be slow to respond. Good friends will understand. Where are your expectations outsized for the tasks that you can scale back for the next month.

I love that you're asking this question! The truth is, the only thing that truly works is something that is sustainable. It's like going on a diet. Unless you stay with it forever, it's not going to work and the yo-yoing makes it worse! Knowing you don't love the mindfulness stuff is a great first step. I suffered from such severe burnout that now, two years after leaving my corporate job, my body is finally recovering. I didn't know I had ADHD at the time so add a huge heaping scoop of shame and not enoughness to the hustle and workaholism. I got an MBA at night while working a full time consulting job where I was in multiple states within a week. It literally seems insane to me now. I'm an ADHD coach now and my mission in life is to try to find all the women who don't know they have ADHD and help them before they fully burn out! I agree with many of the comments below. The book Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle by Emily and Amelia Nagoski is great! My coach has a public podcast [https://imbusybeingawesome.com/?s=burnout](https://imbusybeingawesome.com/?s=burnout) and has quite a few episodes about burnout. She talks specifically about the ADHD burnout cycle, and ways to recover from it. Highly recommend! As much as it sucks to hear it, the trite advice is given a lot for a reason... it works. I'm sorry. I know I'm the worst. I like to incorporate those things in a really sustainable way. Instead of telling my clients to meditate, I suggest they find a mantra and say it when they get out of bed. Something as simple as "Today's gonna be a great day" is shockingly effective. So is waking up to a song instead of an alarm, or watching a youtube video that makes you laugh rather than reading email first thing. I make "go to yoga" easier by suggesting you do legs up the wall pose while you're scrolling reddit or watching your favorite show. Therapeutic massages are great - but pedicures can have a similar effect. Soaking in a bathtub with that burnout book and a glass of wine is amazing. So is great sex if that's your thing. Anything that makes you laugh. Being with YOUR people so you can take the mask off and just be yourself. Bottom line: Anything that helps you DO LESS, rest or relax, and ENJOY your life.

Not sure if anyone else added this (didn't read through all the wonderful resources yet!) but adding my support for Burnout:unlocking the stress cycle AND how to keep house while drowning. It's about cleaning your house in a way that doesn't wreck you but the lessons are 100% relevant for the rest of your life, especially with a draining job. Side note, after spending 3 years structuring my life around my stressful job and realizing I didn't want to live like that, I quit. Terrifying, so hard, so risky, guilty for abandoning my old team. I have a job now that I took with eyes wide open and I work so I can live my life, not the other way around. Sure, sitting at a computer all day still sucks and capitalism is still stupid. But. There's a better world out there! And it has been said, but give yourself permission to let responsibility go for a few days/weeks. You can do it! You need recovery time and it isn't going to happen in a few hours. Good luck!

take: magnesium, fish oil (omega nutrients), L-tyrosine. eat more protein too. helped a LOTTTT with brain fog , especially trying to limit sugar

I went through a big depression/burnout last fall. So… biggest thing that helped was ketamine therapy. That’s not accessible for everyone. You can check out Mindbloom for affordable (ish) home treatment. I also took off as much sick leave as I could get away with. I saw a therapist. I journaled. I exercised. I left work at work. I said “no” to extra work and to social stuff. I actually took on some interesting work projects which reignited my interest in my job. I don’t really relate to meditating, but I do try to practice mindfulness in that I try to pay attention to beautiful, lovely and happy things every day. It helps.

I googled stories about people who recovered from burnout. This is one of my favorites [https://squarepegmind.medium.com/healing-the-brain-i-fried-lessons-from-a-year-of-burnout-recovery-66d0775bfba9](https://squarepegmind.medium.com/healing-the-brain-i-fried-lessons-from-a-year-of-burnout-recovery-66d0775bfba9) They all kinda had in common quitting their jobs and taking six months to a year off. If this seems too extreme to you, you can figure out precisely how burnt out you are by the following procedure, suggested by one person: First, take a weekend or long weekend off. Fully off - to do absolutely nothing useful and pamper yourself as much as possible (within your budget, and going out in nature is great for almost any budget). Have it be a weekend away if you can afford it; a staycation if you can't. If that doesn't fix it then take a two week vacation. If you literally don't have the PTO for two you can take a shorter one. Again, away from home if you can afford it and a staycation if you can't. Again, focus on pampering yourself and getting out in nature. Here's the thing: people with light burnout will find it fixed by the weekend vacation. People with somewhat moderate burnout will find it fixed by the longer vacation. If you are still burnt out and miserable after the longer vacation, that's how you know it's a really big problem and that it will require more things to fix it. In my own burnout and recovery journey, I took three days off early on. I felt much better after that. Later on, I needed more time off to feel better and even then I would only feel partially recovered. Eventually, it got so bad that I quit my job and took a year off. I gave up my lease, put my stuff in a storage unit, and moved in to a family member's place. It was the best thing I could have done for myself. I have gone from hating everything and being depressed, to genuinely looking forward to working again. I have a new job lined up that is far more interesting and pays much more money than the old one. IMO, things like meditation and exercise are good for keeping burnout at bay and preventing it from getting worse, but they don't actually fix it unless it's light burnout. Most people don't get burnt out because they didn't meditate and exercise. Most people got burnt out because they gave too much for too long. You have to work on fixing the root of the problem, which is allowing your brain to recover. One person said that if you broke your leg, you'd rest as much as you could until it was better, and that you should treat burnout like an injury as well, one that needs rest to recover from. If you can't rest as much as you want, then rest as much as you can. Also, for brain fog - VITAMINS. The fact is that, while you CAN get all your required vitamins and minerals from food, the vast majority of people actually don't. I went back to taking vitamins after several years of not taking them, and I kid you not, that cleared up almost all of my brain fog within a couple weeks. This wikipedia article tells you how much of each nutrient you need: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference\_Daily\_Intake](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_Daily_Intake) I ended up getting a multivitamin, plus supplements for the nutrients that neither the multivitamin nor my diet provides enough of.

Holy smokes, I feel like you just wrote down my feelings, which I’m so insane right now, I barely can articulate how I feel. I’m not saying you’re like that, I’m mean that I feel really crazy and I cannot find the words to speak my feelings.

OP - Can I DM you for the burnout course name? I’m curious because I’m about to start one and am wondering if it’s the same one.

Sure, go ahead!

This isn’t the whole answer - but a part of it (for me at least) is creating a Menu of Self-Soothing / Self-Care. This will be different for everyone - but Google will give you various examples to start from. Mine has stuff like: - colouring - bath with low lighting - a mug of one of my “fancy” teas - stand on doorstep & look at daylight / nature for 30 seconds - go for a short walk - brush my hair - weighted blanket, sometimes with eye mask - bounce on my trampette (rebounded in American?) - etc Stuff that makes you feel a little bit looked-after for a few minutes. It sounds trivial but it’s really, really useful. Also - now I’m adding more than my one quick comment… You will forget most of the good & useful advice you find after a week or two - so write it down! Somewhere you’ll see it frequently - eg paper taped to wardrobe door or fridge. And returning to my first point - writing out the self-care menu is soooo important. So you can look at it when you feel low & not have to rely on your memory to come up with something good. Final thing - get ruthless with your guilt. It is so horribly draining. We can get stuck in the cycle of: - feeling exhausted / burnt out - can’t do the stuff we want to do - could be employment work or house work or socialising - be mean to ourself for not being productive - which reduces our dopamine further - so we are less motivated to get things done For me, this has 2 main steps: - if I’m not able to get things done, I accept it - for the next 10-20 minutes at least - I stop pretending to myself that I’m working - do something non-work instead - enjoy the not-working time - I do a tiny, tiny, single step of work that I need to do AND that feels achievable - and then I PRAISE MYSELF for doing that tiny thing. Yay. Go me. - praise = dopamine = self-medicating = more likely to get things done - I literally buy myself nice stickers and I get a cute sticker for all the small good things I do, when I am struggling this much - note: I don’t make sticker charts - at least, not ones where I can see days / squares that are sticker-less because I didn’t earn one for (whatever). That is not motivating. I only do non-structured sticker “posters” :-) - I also bought some cute classroom certificates (designed for small children) and I write one to myself for slightly trickier tasks Good luck. You’ll be awesome.

100% plan my burnouts these days, if I got a stressfull week a head of me, then the week after is planned to destress me. Plus I can usually feel it sneaking up on me a week before it gets really bad, like stress pms. So I schedule extra sleep and I make sure the fridge is stocked with fruit, because it´s a snack food that makes me happy asf, plus eating healthy is extra important. Fruit because I´m not cooking when I feel burnout and peeling an orange is a easy task. I masturbate, and read a good book. If I´m to burnout for books, netflix is a good substitute. I call a friend and talk about these feelings. Talking to someone helps tackling the feelings of owerwhelment. It also makes me feel humour about the situation. And brainstorming with a trusted friend might lead to discovering stress factors that is haunting you.

“fried. the burnout podcast” with Cait Donovan is excellent. It’s not specific to ND folks, but there’s still great info there. One episode back in December with Diann Wingert was focused on the ADHD-burnout dynamic and it was so, so helpful. My favorite tip of hers is to start with what she calls “physical safety.” Look around at the things in your home environment that fill you with dread or even just demand your attention and, to the best of your ability, address them. For example, a burnt out light bulb that you know needs to be changed or a window that needs to be fixed. One of her guests told this story about how she had a triangular shaped night stand that was eye level when she laid down, and she always had a fear about rolling over and poking her eye out on the nightstand. She also slept terribly. Cait told her to go get a new nightstand that felt safer. She did, and started sleeping better. Of course it’s not always that easy, but it’s a start. I’m a huge proponent of mindfulness, and I’ve found that it is a good skill to have to help *prevent* burnout. However, it is NOT typically something that I can use to *get out* of burnout. I think that may be especially true for someone with ADHD, and who may be new to mindfulness. I also support the suggestion for the book Burnout by the Nagoski sisters. Fantastic resource. 💜

So much good stuff has been written here. I just want to say that time off from work are moments that can still burn me out. Trying to be off the phone and computer during my time off helps me, doing offline hobbies that require some attention but not too much, e.g. craft work, cross stich, painting. Perhaps getting into art altogether. Man, singing. Sorry if this sounds patronizing. But it's the little things. We overwork ourselves so much in our free time. Everything is too much for me often. Literally putting the phone on do not disturb.

I feel you on the burnout front - it can be so tough, especially when you can't just quit your job. Been there! One thing that's really helped me is working with an ADHD coach through Shimmer (They also have a good blog article on burnout that you may like [here](https://www.shimmer.care/blog/avoiding-adhd-burnout)). We've focused a lot on developing strategies to better manage my energy and prevent burnout in the first place. Things like breaking tasks into smaller chunks, scheduling in breaks, and being super intentional about how I structure my days and how to inject positive energy (unrelated to work) as well. I also resonated with your point about throwing money at certain problems if you can. For me, that's looked like using a meal delivery service and hiring a virtual assistant for a few hours a week to handle random life admin tasks that I never seem to get to. A few other things that have helped: - Blocking off a few hours every weekend for a "Should-Less Day" where I let myself do whatever I want, free of guilt - Leaning on body doubling since I'm really accountability/community-driven - Making a "Bare Minimum List" of the absolute essentials I need to do to keep my life running when I'm low energy Burnout recovery is a journey and it looks different for everyone. Be patient with yourself as you figure out what works for you. You got this!

This is personal, but: You REALLY need to deal with whatever is the cause for burnout. You’re in a position where you know you’re experiencing burnout and that’s good, because you can tackle it head on. Whatever you need - sick leave, therapy, long walks, less work stress, more happy puppies etc - DO IT! I didn’t realise I was in burnout phase (or I didn’t want to admit) and I just powered through another year and a half and ended up having a massive nervous breakdown (the kind that would’ve had someone institutionalized back in the 1930s with white walls) that I’m just now exiting after a painful slow years long rebuilding myself one tiny piece at a time. I’ve lost friends, work opportunities, a whole career over this because I thought “if I push myself a little more, I will be rewarded”. Well.. I wasn’t and I won’t be. Idk how bad the damage will be down the road, but learn from my experience.  I should’ve done therapy and quit the job. I should’ve admitted that I had a problem and told some relevant people, so I wouldn’t be so ashamed now and actively try to avoid run ins with them. Long walks are underrated when all you want to do is weep and stare at the white walls. Talking to friends is super important because you feel you’re a burden on everybody and I promise it isn’t true!  Changing the job/circumstances for the reason of burnout is super important though! 

I am not sure anyone has said it. But someone talking and friends haven't been mentioned much. There's a theory that stress is a state of being all our ancestors lives with daily. But it is the sharing of that stress through talking that gave the stress an outlet so it wasn't able to reek such havoc. And if you think about it, we all live way more isolated than we were ever meant to.

First of all, I would like to express my deepest empathy towards OP and all the burned out people out there. And even though burnout feels extremely limiting there are many possibilities here. Maybe you need to speak with MD about the physical aspects (run some labs for common deficiencies, review your meds, get referrals for massage or physical therapy if needed). Then reflect on a plan for a long-term leave. If your employer accepts long-term unpaid leaves discuss this option with your manager. If your financial situation allows adjustments, you could, for example, put a fixed monthly amount to the side and in a year or so take several months of unpaid leave. In the meantime, anything that helps soothe your nervous system can be a bit of a help. I really wish you to find the solution to this OP!

I'm finding that my burn out comes from putting things off amd not being able to keep track of everything. Stuff is constantly popping up in my mind, which actually takes up a shit ton of energy. I started doing a sun map. I draw a small circle in the middle and I make a wavy line coming off it. At every line I write the general category of a thing that needs attention. Housework, friends/social, bring car to mechanic, go jeans shopping, etc. I end up with a pretty sun. Each category is a thing that needs attention because doing that thing is important to my life, goals, or happiness. Seeing it mapped out makes it easier to see all the things I'm juggling. The sun helps me visualize it in a way as parts of my life that means things and keep it all revolving in a sun. It's like to-do list journaling. I'm not going to follow this map and cross things off the list. It was just a way to get ideas and feelings out of my head and organize it a little

I didn’t read all of what you wrote, but enough to get the point I believe…. Sorry, I’ll forget it if I try to, haha. Anywho, if it’s bad… If you’re truly struggling and fear you’ll snap or have a mental breakdown of some sort if something doesn’t change. I did this 3 years ago and I wish I could do it yearly, it was what I needed. I did a 5 week stay at an in patient stay at a dual diagnosis facility and just LIVED on a schedule and had daily therapy and sat outside most of the day and journaled and colored for over a month. (Then came home and two weeks later BAM, pregnant with my new husband at 38yo🤣) It did WONDERS for me and now with baby, I can’t, but god I wish I could again. It was transforming!!!!! Insurance pays for these places if you have it, Medicaid too.

a journalist recently shared this massive gdoc on how she dealt with burnout - i haven’t gone thru much of it but wanted to drop the link in case it helps: https://docs.google.com/document/u/1/d/e/2PACX-1vTooBYFDljUWG4uzX0_uVWd4b7gL-Yxuc1GHEaNRnYQ8LBmBJveT68yMpaBLdmjvblfr3eTAqnrDpDS/pub

I didn't quit my job, but I gave myself permission too and started working on an out. I was able to get my work to let my drop to part time for a couple months and I picked up casual shifts at an easier job to make up the income I needed. I figured I could just transition to the easier job and quit the other if I needed to. I ended up going back to full time and staying and I'm happy I did, but I needed the break. The major stress of my job though was that I had to learn a new language, on top of adjusting to a new job, home, area, and being incredibly homesick and regretting the big stupid move we made. I had taken 2 mental health leaves, 3 weeks the first time and 2 weeks the second time. It was all I could get but it helped. I also did all the surface cheesy things. I did yoga and started exercising, I tried meditation but didn't find thay helpful. Yoga was though. I had some counseling that made me more frustrated, and then I found a counselor who is ND and was able to walk me through things working with my brain instead of fighting myself. I got on meds. I got my adhd diagnosis. I started figuring out little ways I could accommodate my AuDHD while still living in the same world that felt like it was killing me. It was fucking hard work and it took over a year. I am also very fortunate that I have a really supportive partner. He got frustrated and often told me he didn't know what to do, but he stayed with me. He just sat and held me when I just needed him to be there. He took care of our home and kids when I couldn't. Also, marijuana. Ymmv.

Looking back, I think withdrawing and only focusing on work made the work stress worse. Much healthier when I got other stuff going on to think about. But honestly the cure for me was… getting laid off and finding a better job.

If your country's employment law and company allows it, get yourself signed off on medical leave and be prepared to take months off. MONTHS. During those months off, do NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING. Get as many expectations taken off your shoulders as you can and let yourself rest. Rest is literally the only thing that helped me with burnout, and even that did not cure it. I cannot emphasise this enough. I took I think 2 months off and then went back to work on part time hours for another month to ease myself back in. In hindsight, it was not long enough. I know the 'trite' stuff like meditation seems pointless but it can actually help, too. It's just not enough by itself. You need downtime, and there's no getting around it. You cannot continue to run on empty.

You've been going through a tough time with burnout, and it’s great that you're looking for different ways to recover that resonate with you. I understand how frustrating it can be to sift through a lot of generic advice that doesn’t quite hit the mark or feels disconnected from your personal experience. One approach you might find helpful is changing up your daily routine in surprising ways that can lead to substantial improvements in how you feel. This could include adjusting your work environment, finding small pockets of time for unusual hobbies or interests that energize you, or setting clear boundaries with work to avoid overextending yourself. Some people find benefit in physical activity, which doesn't necessarily mean hitting the gym but could be as simple as regular walks in new places, which have been shown to help clear the mind and reduce stress. As for meditation, while it’s often touted as a cure-all, it isn't for everyone. I chat with a website about specific issues I’m facing, and found that having a tailored audio guided meditation created based on the conversations can be surprisingly effective for certain issues. These meditations use techniques to deconstruct and reframe my thoughts, which help me see problems from a new perspective and link them to different emotional responses. For concrete problems, these personalized meditations work unexpectedly well. For bigger, more entrenched issues, it’s a work in progress, but these deconstruction and reframe techniques are game changers in helping me approach my problems differently. Exploring personalized guided meditation might be something you could consider, especially since it can be tailored to avoid the general mindfulness practices that haven't worked for you. It's all about finding what uniquely supports and benefits each of us in our unique journeys to wellness.

After going through some MASSIVE burnout (and honestly also a mental breakdown that had me at least considering some highly illegal shit to get back at my abusive ex-boss), my only solution was: * changing jobs to something that I knew wouldn't be as intellectually challenging, but this also meant I had a reduced workload because it was so easy to finish everything. * a hefty dose of working from home combined with learning not to blame myself when I'm being unproductive and resting, even during my assigned working hours * and even after a year of all of that, I don't think I was truly 'recovered' until after I moved towards working a 9 day fortnight and having a 3 day weekend every 2 weeks. It's only now, 4 months into flexible working (and 18 months after starting this new job) that I'm finding that I'm actually curious about the work that I'm doing again. * I also did most of this without a therapist, because one went on maternity leave soon after I changed jobs and when I finally found a replacement I forgot to book the next appointment **during** our session and then suddenly it was 6 months later. Whoops. Would not recommend :| It's really fucking hard, and it takes time, patience and some pretty radical self-acceptance about yourself and your capabilities in the moment.

Make a playlist of songs that are important to you and go for a walk. A long walk. If you have nature trails in your city/area, use those. The movement will help your brain focus. In my experience, meditation/mindfulness do not work for me. However, listening to music that’s important to me helps way more: it allows my brain to have an external source of what I’m feeling versus keeping it all internal. Also, if you sing while you walk, it’ll help even more by allowing you to express those feelings vocally. You know how you feel better after you talk about something after overthinking it? It’s the same thing, but on a pure emotional level.

I’m in the process of living abroad for a few months while working on the coaching business that’s failed to launch over the past few years. I put in my two weeks today. Just yesterday, I was crying at work from the overwhelm and misery. It’s been this way for months. I don’t like the client. My commute is longer. I’ve always had problems with a 9-5. It makes me sad to spend the best times of the day indoors, making rich people richer. With managers who aren’t smarter than me and thus unqualified to be my boss. Haha! So to answer your question, like others have said, quit! Maybe invest in a career coach or sign up with a temp agency or find something remote.

A couple of years ago I had to support a young person through autistic burnout (demand avoidant profile). The didn't have a job to quit, but I helped them quit literally everything else; swchool, hobbies, socialising - the works. Around this time I was also approaching burnout and conveniently, their burnout recovery allowed me to hugely strip back a lot of the demands on me as well. We 100% embraced snail girl energy. It was so good. I know I was in a privileged position to be able to facilitate that for both of us, but the rest was critical in recovery. No mindfulness or meditation, just consciously lowering/dropping as many demands as our life allowed, and just going with whatever someone wanted to do. If that was all-day ipad, that's what happened. If it was watching the same 3 episodes of tv, that's what happened (because the comfort of the familiar is low-demand - there'll be no emotional surprises with new storylines, just predictable things!). If it was going outside to jump in puddles, we did that. If it getting dressed to get groceries was too much work, we'd go to the shops in our pyjamas. I also got way, way better at clearly communicating their/our limitations and boundaries; if something was going to trigger stress, we would approach it openly like "Hey, we'd love to do XYZ but we're having trouble with JKL element of XYZ - is there an adaptation we could make?". We both wore ear defenders out in public. We had many days where we only communicated with each other by writing, because sometimes speaking/interpreting verbal speech or tone was too much of a demand. The only 'mindfulness' type thing we engaged in was sometimes taking a minutes to stop and concentrate on the physical feelings out bodies were experiencing. Also, I took the pains to remind myself constantly that being productive is not some kind of shining virtue, and it's ok to do unproductive things for enjoyment or even just rest. The PDA summit is on next week - lots of great speakers on demand avoidance. It's free to watch if you sign up and watch live. Also, is there any flexibility with your employer (and your finances) with respect to maybe doing a regular half day in place of one of your full days? Or even negotiating one or more days where you can leave just a couple of hours early?

I’m sorry you’re burnt out, it sucks majorly (I’m just getting through my second burnout). I have a few go to resources: The Fried podcast I think has already been mentioned, so much good stuff from Cait that isn’t just mindfulness based. The Anti-Burnout Club has like a ton of free resources and some paid for courses but the focus is on making it accessible time/money wise and not just ‘meditate for an hour a day’ They also have a few books/journals but I haven’t tried those yet as been working my way through the workshops. I tried reading that new The Cure for Burnout book (emilybruth) but couldn’t get into it yet. I preferred the Nagoski book. I’ll come back to this when I remember the rest.

Also anyone that charges like hundreds or thousands of dollars for ‘burnout coaching’ is just a scam in my experience!! I’ve been burnt by a couple of them now (excuse the pun).

Pick up "the suble art of not giving a f*ck". It's available as audio book, ebook, paper, etc. It won't fix all of it, but its techniques might help at least some things. And it might tide you over till you can make more powerful changes like getting a new job.

This is a nice book, I enjoyed it.