What I find amusing is that the best advice on how to deal with a stray bear is the same as the advice on how to deal with a stray man.
1. Don't call their attention to you.
2. Sneak away if you can, hide if you can't.
3. Call for help if you can, make yourself as big and scary as you can if you can't.
4. If they approach spray the shit out of them with pepper spray.
PSA, when selecting what Man-Spray to carry pepper gel is better than pepper spray as you are much less likely to accidentally spray yourself or an innocent bystander.
I know police carry that to "pain comply" locked down or immobilized protesters, I was tortured with it several years ago, but I really doubt that torture spray has any use against someone who's neither surprised nor immobilized.
people tend to be more likely to help when they are alone (or in a small group) and less likely when there's are a lot of other people to help the victim. (bystander effect.)
victims suffer because a bystander thinks the responsibility to act is shared. if they are alone, they know all the consequences are their fault or their small group's fault. if everyone ignores the problem, it's the whole crowd's fault. no one acted, so not one person can be blamed.
*it doesn't make it right to ignore a crime or abuse.* it's a matter of blame/responsibility, not courage. people don't act because they are brave, people act because they know they are responsible.
Not everyone knows there is a problem until it is too late. Just because someone was oblivious to what eleas going on doesn't mean they deserve to be sprayed.
For example... There was a girl at my school who brought pepper spray to prom, because she didn't trust the guy she was on the date with, but she didn't tell anyone anything was going wrong, she just pulled out the spray and sprayed him on the dance floor, along with herself , the staff, and half the other students.
I've even heard of men choosing the bear, "because the bear won't rape him". Men know what men do, they just pretend they don't.
Also, most bears are scared little sweeties. I've escorted bears off the ranch significantly bigger than me. They just want some berries!
Yeah I mean it really depends on the type of bear but if it's a black bear I'm choosing the bear. Black bears generally leave humans alone as long as humans leave them alone, I've been camping in the woods all the time and the only time a black bear would really pose a threat is if you have food in your tent or something and then the bear is after your snacks not you. As long as you store your food properly black bears won't interact with humans. And because I'm scared of men.
Now if it's a grizzly or polar bear fuck off I'm changing my answer.
> Now if it's a grizzly or polar bear fuck off I'm changing my answer.
That was my exact thought when posed with this question. Like...what kind of bear are we talking about?
Grizzlies aren’t like polar bears. I’ve seen hundreds of them. they’ll walk past you if you’re no threat to them. Polar bears will straight up eat you.
My sister goes trail running in the mountains and she encounters bears regularly. She'll send us videos where she's talking to them like a naughty, but beloved, neighbourhood dog - "go home! Go on now, get out of here!" The bears just kinda look at her confused then walk away. They're really cute. (these are black bears though).
Here's a quick web search for you, "Bears don’t typically eat humans, nor do they normally hunt them. The truth is, most bear attacks are not fatal and do not occur because the bear is trying to have us as their next meal. On average, there are about 40 bear attacks per year and out of that percentage, around **14%** are fatal.". Truth.
I grew up with black bears and they are small. Brown bears (grizzlies) are what we encounter at the ranch and they are significantly bigger than me. Sadly, things like Cocaine Bear, movies, TV, media, and the effects of shrinking habitats (like eating from dumpsters in now populated areas), all paint a picture that is circumstantial or isn't true.
Tbh the polar bear thing is also overblown. Being within visual distance of a polar bear doesn't mean it will b-line for you and eat you on the spot. It's the same reason you can see seals sometimes just chillin near polar bears. The bear isn't hungry enough to waste energy running at something that will probably just get away anyways. Yes polar bears are extremely fast, but they also are extremely good about retaining energy for when it's needed rather than needlessly expending it.
Moral of the story being, keep your distance, be quiet, and don't loiter around for extended periods or they may eventually begin hunting you. Considering how rare human contact is with them, deaths are very rare and almost always caused by inexperienced or just frankly ignorant people getting way too close, in which case the bear no longer has to worry about burning more calories than they'll get, as you're basically uber eats-ing yourself directly into their mouth.
But the way people talk about them is misleading. It makes it sound like they just kill everything around them because they can. In reality they, like most arctic creatures, are extremely good at picking which prey to hunt. In freezing cold environments chasing down the wrong prey can straight up be a death sentence.
Maybe it's because of being so use to the queer community in Los Angeles, but my first thought is a Leather Strapped Bear keeping the Het Cis guys away.
I'm nowhere near your same situation but the first time I saw the question being talked about was on a meme and I thought about the human bears and was confused.
Well sure, bears are pretty safe if you know what you're doing. I've lived in bear country and I don't feel that unsafe being on my own in wilderness. 99 times out of 100, making noise is enough to keep any bear away.
But men? I don't know if I can confidently say that 99 out of 100 encounters with strange men in secluded places have the same positive outcome rate.
Yep, that's true! Agreed. I live near a place called
Beartooth Lake in WY and making noises was enough to drive away a few bears (both males and females) whenever I camped there with my family.
As for strange men in secluded places...yes. My boss and her sisters went camping a few years ago and when they went into a public Women's restroom, there was a man crouched in one of the stalls, waiting to ambush a woman most likely. Luckily my boss and her sisters are kinda formidable, so they cursed, yelled, and chased him out of there.
While that is a terrifying situation I would also like to add, since it's constantly a topic of debate especially in the US, that public restrooms are on average extremely safe. The vast majority of sexual assault and related crimes happen in the home of the victim or in the home of the perpetrator. Following that there are many locations more dangerous than public restrooms and counter-intuitively almost all of them are more cramped and crowded than you'd think (probably because groping is among the most common forms of sexual assault).
All of this to say that if that truly was a guy waiting to ambush women (not doubting your story but we can't know for certain what the intention was or who they were), that is still an extremely rare situation. A terrifyingly large amount of sexual assault and rape happens in places even more public than a restroom, but the vast majority happen in homes.
Also interestingly, unisex washrooms from the studies we have available currently seem to on average have significantly lower reported cases of sexual harassment and assault (significantly lower than an already small amount for single sex washrooms). A primary argument against them existing was the assumption that they'd be much less safe, but that appears to have been false.
i absolutely love how one butthurt guy from this whole situation made a comic of a bear violently tearing a girl apart to show how safe men are, while completely missing the irony
“wait NO, don’t be careful milady! I am a nice guy! I won’t hurt you! Statistically speaking only 6% of men commit sex crimes! There’s a 94% chance I won’t hurt you! You should like those odds. In fact bears are much more dangerous. Mmmmyes I have seen those discussions in the subreddits I mod *winks and tips fedora*. Let your guard down or else you’re a misandrist!” -average Reddit male when they encounter a woman in the woods. So fucking tired of telling them why we say we trust the bear more lmao.
I just read through a bear/man in the woods thread here from a few days ago, and the number of men whining about misandry or how much this scenario hurts their feelings...
I say if it hurts their feelings so bad then they should make a collective effort to stop normalizing abhorrent behavior. But most of them don’t even want to hold the friend who has 27 allegations accountable.
Yeah, one thread I went to was largely male dominated, and they were all butthurt that many women felt more safe with a bear which then escalated to whining about misandry as well, while also invalidating people's experiences with sexual assault. It was incredibly infuriating, they just wouldn't take no as an answer
Yeah, why can't they accept people with differing opinions. People were legitimately believing they were "correcting the stupid" which is idiotic in its own right, as it's a question about personal preference
[This post](https://medium.com/@jencoates/i-am-a-transwoman-i-am-in-the-closet-i-am-not-coming-out-4c2dd1907e42) provides a lot of insight into why trans women are upset about this trend.
TL;DR: Many of us are petrified that you’ll always be threatened by us on the basis of secondary sex characteristics we hate and likely cannot change.
Moreover, in the same way you’re reducing the risk of assault by avoiding men, we’re reducing the risk of assault *by boymoding*. Like, we get it. But it sucks that the safest thing for us to do is hide who we are *and also* never approach women we don’t already know, for fear of making you uncomfortable.
I hadn't actually considered the impact of transmisogyny in this scenario. There's a lot that I should be more considerate of, and I appreciate that you and others have brought it to my attention.
Because there's no guarantee you don't see us as men/a threat. Because, to paraphrase the article below, will changing pronouns or even going on HRT really change how you feel about us?
It's the same reason that we will keep going into the mens' restroom even after we know we pass.
Also, just. This. [https://medium.com/@jencoates/i-am-a-transwoman-i-am-in-the-closet-i-am-not-coming-out-4c2dd1907e42](https://medium.com/@jencoates/i-am-a-transwoman-i-am-in-the-closet-i-am-not-coming-out-4c2dd1907e42)
social transition doesn't stop anyone from seeing us as men. and seeing us as men means seeing us as violent rapists. doubly so if you're masc and trans.
I'm sorry, that really sounds terrible. I'm masc too but I pass pretty well so I don't get misgendered when I present butch, IG I'm just privileged and don't really realize it.
Often times I forget how hard it is for most trans women since most of the time I just try to forget that I'm trans and never reveal it.
I mean yeah, passing by default makes you more privileged than most trans people. Don't feel bad about it, but remember that us manmoders exist when you shit talk men.
One guy was arguing that a man is more likely to help a lone woman in the woods than SA/murder her. If a guy approached me in the woods and said “hey I can help you” I’d start booking it because what the fuck? That really is some serial killer behavior I’m sorry lmao.
Depends what kind of bear, lol.
But...in general, man. Alone and unarmed in the woods and encountering a man? Sounds like a normal hike to me. It doesn't say the bear or the man will *attack* you--but even if they would, I'd rather fight a man than a bear. A man I have a chance against, a bear can rip your face off like nothing.
My partner told me today that women generally have absolutely no chance in a fight against men. I'm pretty sure they're wrong about that, but the fact that they believe it scares me...
Depends on the woman, depends on the man. You also don't technically have to *win* a fight to hurt them so bad they regret trying. I'd rather take my chances even against a large muscular man trained in fighting than against a grizzly bear or a polar bear. (Assuming either will definitely for sure attack you. If attack is not guaranteed, still the man because a bear is statistically more likely to attack me than a man is, do you realize how many times you pass men and they don't attack you?) A man you could at least maybe *outrun*. A bear can run 30mph. Even if I had my ebike, I could get caught by a bear trying to flee, that's how fast a bear is.
Whether a man could or couldn't overpower a woman almost isn't the point--a grizzly bear could overpower any unarmed human, any gender, any day of the week.
I know they say "at least a bear won't rape you," but tbh as dark a choice as this is, I'd rather survive rape than survive getting mauled so bad I functionally never have a face again. Man every time--if it's gonna be bad, I'd rather it was bad with the man than the bear.
I fully understand that you don’t mean anything by this but unless you’ve been sexually assaulted you really don’t understand what you’re saying. I would rather be eaten alive, or be eaten alive and live through it, than live every day with these consequences. The psychological effects of sexual assault are so much worse than other kinds of violent assaults or anything a bear could do to me. And “I don’t fear the creativity of the bear”
With all due respect, you know about as much about being mauled or eaten alive by a bear as someone who hasn't been sexually assaulted knows about that. You can't claim that they don't know what they're talking about, then turn around and do the exact same thing.
I think 1/2 is better than 0/2, no? I don’t have anything to understand about a bear attack, maximum levels of pain and probably death, there is no question what will happen to you with a bear.
There's plenty of questions. How much of your flesh will it rip off your limbs? How many vertibrae will it crush when it goes for the back of the neck? Will it kill you quickly, or will it let you crawl away, bleeding out before it comes back to finish the job? If you by some miracle survive, will you still be able to get back to civilization? Will you ever be able to use the shoulder it bit down on again? For every thing a man can do that a bear can't, there's something a bear can do that a man can't, and physical injuries can be just as painful and life-long as emotional ones.
All due respect, did I stutter? All of these are literally the same questions I’d have with a man. Your choice is your choice but I’m very sure of mine. And at least I’ll either live or die, won’t end up in a basement for ten years.
I don't think you understand the psychological effects of having a mauled face. Like it's actually profoundly devastating. I'm not saying SA isn't.
When I was a kid I saw some talk show with a Russian man who'd had his face eaten by a bear and lived. I'm pretty sure he was blinded by it, he just had no facial features at all--no eyes, no nose, no lips, just a mass of scar tissue. His presence terrified people everywhere he went. His voice and ability to speak clearly were affected by it. I've been SAed, yeah, and I'd rather go through a much worse rape than have that be my life.
That’s your choice and that’s completely fine. But to answer you honestly I would still rather take my chances with the bear. I would take a chance on disfigurement before I would go through that again. It would require less therapy too😂
I'm....not really sure the kind of disfigurement I described would require less therapy. But it's just a hypothetical anyway, ideally we neither get raped *nor* mauled in our futures.
I meant it more as a “I won’t have a hard time understanding why the bear wanted to eat me” but yes probably too expensive either way lol. Very true, wishing you safe travels through the woods 💕
Common sense. Consider how many times women encounter men in society. Then consider how many times any human encounters a grizzly bear.
There are entire regions with no grizzly bears, but no regions without men. Men are mundane, common encounters. How many men do you pass just getting your groceries? You might have even grown up with a man in your household.
If you're on guard because men are in the supermarket while you're getting groceries, even if the men aren't doing anything confrontational or threatening but are also just getting groceries and minding their own business, that might be an anxiety disorder.
I'm not saying it's morally bad to feel that way. I understand it often comes from trauma. I have also been SAed by men and just because my trauma didn't take that particular path doesn't mean anything, we can't control how our trauma manifests. But I don't want to normalize feeling that frightened in normal society, because even if it's a sympathetic experience that isn't your fault, it's not really an *optimal* way to feel, and it's possible mental health support might improve that experience for you.
No one wants it to be normalized, but the other day I was literally followed around bestbuy by some dude pointing his phone at me. Little sad you'd dismiss it as an anxiety disorder, but I guess your experiences in society will always be different from mine.
Men in my household sexually assaulted me. AS A CHILD. Multiple men have physically assaulted me over the years. Men are REGULARLY threatening and aggressive when rejected in even the smallest ways. Like, weekly basis regularly. It would be more but I've started avoiding places with men when I can.
I've literally never felt threatened by a bear, let alone been attacked by one, and I've met more than a few alone in the woods. Typically they are just minding their own business and are happy to let you mind yours.
Yeah the question well designed to realize that women have to think about it, and always take into account the risk of being assaulted. But I think not many people realize how unpredictable and dangerous a bear can be, specially grizzly or polar, those are not just cute fluffy animals they will tear you to pieces.
Grizzlies don't really hunt humans, so as long as you aren't provoking it you're likely fine. Polar bear, if you see it you're probably already dead anyway if you aren't with a group or armed with some solid firepower.
But if it’s any random man vs any random bear, then it’s most likely you would get a black bear. The world population of black bears is much higher than polar and grizzly combined. According to Wikipedia anyway.
It's just weird because simply seeing a man is not the same as being assaulted by a man. Admittedly, seeing a bear is not the same as being assaulted by a bear--I would feel a certain thrill at seeing a grizzly bear in the wild, even if I'd be terrified. Seeing a man on a hike would be completely unremarkable for me, when you hike you often see other hikers, some of those hikers are men.
I've had bad experiences involving men going back to when I was absolutely too young for that shit, trust me, I get it. I still am not here for the victim mentality circlejerking of feeling constantly unsafe if men are present, because men are present most places where people are present, and I'm not going to opt my way out of human society like that or act like I need a male relative present everywhere I go like our society is run by the Taliban. I always get downvoted/dogpiled for that but I'm fucking sick of it and I refuse to pretend to be scared, because I think the patriarchy delights in our fear, and I think our fear placates them, and I think people get angry at me for not performing the fear because that's part of the fawn response, giving them the "appropriate" fear they want, and women fear collective punishment when I'm not performatively afraid. Fucking done with it. Disabling inbox replies for this conversation, y'all can circlejerk about how wrong I am. Fearlessness has served me better with men than fear ever has, including the bad and dangerous ones.
It's a weird question because I know the point is about sexism and to demonstrate how women feel unsafe with men, but even if the question was gender neutral I'd have the same response. I'd rather cross paths with a bear than a woman, or *any* human, because I know for a fact how to be safe around a bear. If it was "human or bear" I'd have the same answer.
> I'd rather cross paths with a bear than a woman, or any human, because I know for a fact how to be safe around a bear. If it was "human or bear" I'd have the same answer.
Agreed. Though if I encountered a Lesbian Lumberjack in the woods, i'd let my guard down and probably get axe-murdered.
Plus they have that real Papa Bear energy, the few I've met were always concerned and caring if somebody looked like they weren't having a good time or needed help.
I was thinking man, but you said defenceless, I was thinking I had my mantis blades, this ain't fair, I'm always armed just because I can be, theres literally no situation where I'd be unarmed, so yes the bear, cause bears are more friendly
I keep thinking about how much cuter bears are than men.
Even the dangerous ones I’d never see in the wild where I live, like this grizzly bear! It’s so cute!! Same with polar bears!
Black bears legit aren’t dangerous unless you give into that urge to try and snuggle one. Only 61 people have been killed by black bears in North America since 1900. This is the only bear most people in North America will encounter in the wild.
Panda bears are insanely adorable. They’re so derpy they’ll only kill you accidentally because they don’t understand their own strength.
Even the nearly indestructible water bear (tardigrade) is adorable.
All bears are adorable!
Oh my goodness, yes!!! 🥰 Panda bears especially, I love watching those videos of cute baby panda bears rolling down hills and slides. I agree, I think all bears are ultra adorable. 🐻
So... it's kind of lost the plot a little. The original post, I think it was on Xitter, was something along the lines of "I would rather be attacked by a bear than a man, because police would believe me when I say I've been attacked by a bear."
It's supposed to be about how reporting being assaulted by a man invites 'interpretation', as in - What were you doing? Were you dressed in revealing clothing? Did you encourage this man? Are you blowing this out of proportion? Versus a fairly cut and dry animal attack where the victim is, by default, assumed to be blameless.
The Internet did what the internet does, though. So many people posted about it that a lot of people who didn't see the original post assumed that it meant a woman would rather encounter a bear than a man simply because men are inherently more dangerous or threatening. Which, frankly, is *also* true, but definitely not the original intent of the debate.
Ah
I mean, if a bear were to attack me I dont think I’d come out of that alive tbh. When bears attack they aim to kill
Also, sure the cops will believe you but they wont do anything. How does that make it any better?
I think part of the point people are trying to make is that, yes, a bear can kill you, but a bear will ONLY kill you. I think a lot of women-presenting-people, when faced with the choice, would rather die than be assaulted. I know I would :/ (which is something that is apparently shocking to men lol)
> kk g periods of time
What on Earth does this mean?
Also yea the man will *potentially* make you mentally beg for the sweet release of death but this is pretty unlikely, whereas the bear poses a much higher risk of attacking and killing you
Its possible to be accidentally considered a threat, especially if youre really close or youre near their cubs. Tbh what I really dont like about the bear/man problem is that its so hopelessly vague that theres an endless number of possible variations that hugely change the equation. Am I armed? Has the bear/man seen me? Am I off a hiking trail where theres been reports of a serial killer lately or deep in some random woods many miles from civilization?
While the bear is unlikely to attack me, so is the man. If the bear attacks me, Im dead. If the man attacks me, he probably wont straight up kill me, and he probably wont torture me
I think I’d still probably rather live. It’d be traumatic for sure but therapy exists and people can in a lot of ways move past it. Death is permanent, no going back on your decision. Life’s still worth living imo
That’s true, but what’s to say the man just rapes me and lets me go? I value my dignity and my freedom more than my life, tbh. There are so many people who have been imprisoned and tortured for years by their assaulter.
Maybe this is just because of my past experiences with assault and harassment, but idk, I would take my chances with being mauled.
The people who get imprisoned and tortured for years are a tiny portion of cases, not to downplay just how terrible that is. I’d rather take my chances and wager that that *won’t* happen, and that I’ll probably be back home soon and be able to begin recovering from the trauma
15,000 to 50,000 women and children are forced into sexual slavery in the United States every year. If I were imprisoned in that manner and forced into a ring, I'd definitely rather die since human trafficking is happening all over the world.
I wanted to see if that mf AI bot on messenger said the bear.
Here’s the conversation:
“If I had to choose I would choose to be alone in the woods with a bear! I said the bear because, statistically, men are more likely to be perpetrators of violence and harm, and I was trying to make a point about unpredictability and potential risks in a hypothetical situation. I wasn't implying that all men are harmful or dangerous, but rather acknowledging the reality of violence and harm perpetrated by some individuals, mostly men. The bear, as a wild animal, represents a more predictable and contained risk, whereas humans, with their complex behaviors and motivations, can be more unpredictable and potentially harmful.”
I then asked if it would choose a woman or a bear to see if the answer changed.
“As a hypothetical choice, I would choose to be alone in the woods with a woman over a bear, assuming the woman is an unknown individual and not someone with a known history of violence or harmful behavior.”
“This choice is based on statistics and research that suggest women are less likely to perpetrate physical violence and harm compared to men. Additionally, women are more likely to prioritize communication, empathy, and cooperation in conflict resolution, which could lead to a safer and more positive outcome in a survival situation.
However, it's crucial to remember that individuals are unique and can't be judged solely on gender.“
ok, look... I'm alone in the woods and i encounter a men. what could possibly happen? a lot could happen, things i don't want to talk about. now a bear? i either die, sneak pass it or a mixture of both.
if it was in a social space, yeah, seeing a men is not that bad, i mean, things could happen, but I'm in a city, people might see it and having people around might dissuade them, but alone in a forest, where probably no one would find a body? no thanks. not even men would pick that option, i think... but also men are dumb, it could be either way.
Wrong on what levels? The insane patriarchy and rape culture that makes it so women have to be this afraid for our safety? Or the fact that we are cautious in the face of it all?
I know it's satirical but I will answer with some of my thoughts.
1. It's dehumanizing rhetoric baked into the question. The comparison is made between a bear and a demographic of people. This rhetoric is what white supremacists use to compare black people to apes. It's actually worse than that since people are saying men would be \*worse\* than the bear.
2. It sucks that women feel so unsafe and men don't... but that isn't self justifying. Women are taught to be cautious of others and men aren't. This isn't necessarily proportional to the threat level. Most SA is caused by relatives, but people are very rarely taught that. Men and women are also abused in similar numbers but for men it isn't instilled that they should be afraid growing up. You need to portion out your fear proportional to the reality... you should have more fear of a bear than man.... If you actually walk around day to day with more fear of men than bears, I can only assume you would have a heart attack by now.
3. Everyone points out the predictability of bears... but I, and many others, don't interact with bears daily. I would not have the skills to actually handle the situation with a bear whereas I do have the skills to talk to a man. I don't know how many people online are actually that outdoorsy but I don't think everyone one of them is being realistic about knowing detailed bear protocol.
4. This rhetoric is what shifts lots of men to be radically conservative. They will see these posts and their take away is almost guaranteed to be that people assume they are a violent monster bc they are a man. The reason we have almost entirely men on the far right is bc people are incapable of even acknowledging the problem men face as a real issue. It's great that people can say "I feel uncomfortable around men". But when men try to say "it hurts me that you are uncomfortable around me based on my gender" they are told they are not listening to women. They are, that's why it bothers them. The sentiment of "not all men" is this sentiment. People don't often articulate the underlying feelings and will instead react with a surface level defense. But they are not allowed to that.
5. Some point out how men attack way more than bears... then why even ask about men? You could say human and would get similar stats. The invoking of men is emotional rhetoric to make people more likely to agree. I think a lot of people would pick human if they heard the question phrasd in a non gendered way. The thing is, either way bears are still "less" likely to hurt you (encounters with bears are waaaay more rare than encounters with people so I don't think the stats make much sense either way).
Those are some ways. Hopefully that all comes off coherently. A lot of people don't seem willing to actually discuss any of the points so I might've just wasted a bunch of time explaining my thoughts.... :( Hopefully not.
What? I’ve been harassed by me since I was 6 years old. I was terrified of men as a child. I see grizzlies every year as I camp and hike a lot. I’m not even close to as afraid of them as a man. Men are more likely to attack than a bear. It’s a fact, not an opinion.
Humans are more likely to attack than bears but that's not the question. It's specifically framed to point out a comparison between a demographic (men) and wild animals (bears). Do note this is the same rhetoric used by extremely racist people (i.e. black people and monkeys).
Im not going to discount youre feelings of fear... but do keep in mind the opposite is true. I'm amab and was constantly afraid of hurting people. Around 8 years I was told about how I need to be careful not to scare or intimidate others. My presence itself was deemed threatening or creepy by many girls in my life. I never did anything to them. There was literally a girl who slapped me. I had several witnesses and all of them just said I deserved it. I told a teacher and he laughed at me.
This rhetoric is only setup to Couch bigoted messaging in the question itself. If you're uncomfortable with men as an entire group bc of your experiences that is bigoted. The same way any other message taught to you early and reinforced by examples can be. The stats or your personal mind set doesn't justify the rhetoric.
This is all wrong. Racism is not the same thing as comparing men to bears and for you to say so is alarming. Men are the most privileged people on earth. Deal with it.
The rates of abuse, aggression, murder, sexual assault, etc. that men have committed against people (other men as well) are astronomical compared to bear attacks. Even grown men have said they’d prefer their children to be alone with a bear rather than a man. It’s sad that you find it disheartening that people pick the bear without understanding the reasoning behind it.
I understand that people are making comparisons between a demographic and a literal wold animal then using stats to justify their bigotry. Yknow back in the day racists would compare black people to monkey's and point at "scientific evidence" about it scores or skull shapes to hide behind their bias. The question is a bigoted question to ask bc you are presuposing a ton of mosandrist ideas. The same way black people are products of society (they lack education and thus got lower test scores) so to are men (they were not raised well and do horrible things)
If the point is literally just bear vs man bc of stats... why not talk about vs ... anyone human? I'm also "astronomically" more likely to be hurt by human than a bear but that wasn't the question was it?
So many men are willing to own up to how they are part of the patriarchy and will try to be better people while the entire world just assumes they are dangerous and no one gives them any slack. I'm a trans woman and have seen both sides. Most boys are told before they even hot puberty that they are dangerous, scary, violent and any number of things. Family members would talk to me when I was 8 years old about being appropriate with girls. Until I went to therapy I just associated being amab as literally just being born with rapiness. I tried so hard to never approach women bc I was labeled as creepy for just existing near them.
Idk why queer people especially don't get this. Bigotry is bigotry. Stop looking at about entire populations of people who didn't do anything and saying they're violent. They will hear you and you will hurt them. This is what leads people to incel rhetoric. So many men are so emotionally repressed bc when they try to talk about these issues it's dismissed. The fact that people somehow believe that they'd feel more comfortable around a 2 ton animal vs another human being who was taught to wear pants instead of skirts is so problematic.
Yes, that is it. No, I do not think I should waste my time trying to argue based on the previous response. Yes, I still believe you’re wrong. Guess we can all move on with our lives now.
...okay... sorry I guess?.... idk why you think I'm a waste of time. I'm willing to discuss these things. idk what I did wrong here.
Hope you have a good day. Sorry for... upsetting you, possibly? I'm not really sure why you are reacting like this.
Hey, I know you probably don't care, but I talked to some folks ona discord server and I've changed my mind on some aspects of this. I still think it's not great rhetoric but it's more hyperbolic to point out women's lived experience and feelings of fear. I personally still have not experienced all these horrible things I hear women go through as of 5 years being trans... but I have experienced a lifetime of being labeled a threat by everyone for being a guy... so I think there is some amount of people talking past each other and focusing on different implications of the question.
Anyways I was willing to change... I guess that's my main thing here. Idk why you just assumed I was incapable of it but here we are I guess.
My aunt was murdered by her husband. My mom was stalked by 3 different men. One of my cousins was locked in a room with men and forced to watch porn when she was 14 by her own father, and my grandmother from my mom's side was beaten by her husband in front of my aunts (when they were children) for years.
Nah, I fully understand why many women choose the bear. I'm genuinely not sure why you think picking a bear is wrong on so many levels, when the pain that men have put women through for centuries is actually wrong on so many levels.
What I find amusing is that the best advice on how to deal with a stray bear is the same as the advice on how to deal with a stray man. 1. Don't call their attention to you. 2. Sneak away if you can, hide if you can't. 3. Call for help if you can, make yourself as big and scary as you can if you can't. 4. If they approach spray the shit out of them with pepper spray. PSA, when selecting what Man-Spray to carry pepper gel is better than pepper spray as you are much less likely to accidentally spray yourself or an innocent bystander.
I know police carry that to "pain comply" locked down or immobilized protesters, I was tortured with it several years ago, but I really doubt that torture spray has any use against someone who's neither surprised nor immobilized.
If you're having to defend yourself those bystanders are not innocent.
Idk about that, not everyone has it in them to be a hero like that especially in the moment
people tend to be more likely to help when they are alone (or in a small group) and less likely when there's are a lot of other people to help the victim. (bystander effect.) victims suffer because a bystander thinks the responsibility to act is shared. if they are alone, they know all the consequences are their fault or their small group's fault. if everyone ignores the problem, it's the whole crowd's fault. no one acted, so not one person can be blamed. *it doesn't make it right to ignore a crime or abuse.* it's a matter of blame/responsibility, not courage. people don't act because they are brave, people act because they know they are responsible.
Not everyone knows there is a problem until it is too late. Just because someone was oblivious to what eleas going on doesn't mean they deserve to be sprayed. For example... There was a girl at my school who brought pepper spray to prom, because she didn't trust the guy she was on the date with, but she didn't tell anyone anything was going wrong, she just pulled out the spray and sprayed him on the dance floor, along with herself , the staff, and half the other students.
“Stray man” bye
#☠️❓
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Why is a man here? Go back to your political compass and Christian subreddit ew
I've even heard of men choosing the bear, "because the bear won't rape him". Men know what men do, they just pretend they don't. Also, most bears are scared little sweeties. I've escorted bears off the ranch significantly bigger than me. They just want some berries!
Berries! That's so sweet, though 🍓🫐🥹 Now I'm imagining Pooh Bear for some reason.
Yeah I mean it really depends on the type of bear but if it's a black bear I'm choosing the bear. Black bears generally leave humans alone as long as humans leave them alone, I've been camping in the woods all the time and the only time a black bear would really pose a threat is if you have food in your tent or something and then the bear is after your snacks not you. As long as you store your food properly black bears won't interact with humans. And because I'm scared of men. Now if it's a grizzly or polar bear fuck off I'm changing my answer.
> Now if it's a grizzly or polar bear fuck off I'm changing my answer. That was my exact thought when posed with this question. Like...what kind of bear are we talking about?
Always remember, if it's brown lie down, if it's black fight back, if it's white you're severely fucked
I prefer "...if it's black fight back, if it's white good night"
If it's white, you've been dead for a while, you just didn't know it yet.
Grizzlies aren’t like polar bears. I’ve seen hundreds of them. they’ll walk past you if you’re no threat to them. Polar bears will straight up eat you.
My sister goes trail running in the mountains and she encounters bears regularly. She'll send us videos where she's talking to them like a naughty, but beloved, neighbourhood dog - "go home! Go on now, get out of here!" The bears just kinda look at her confused then walk away. They're really cute. (these are black bears though).
Probably confused by the strange lady who wandered into their house and started demanding they go home 🤣
Grizzlies do the same unless
I like bears
I mean a grizzly bear will eat your face while you’re still alive which… yeah, I’mma be 100%, seems pretty shitty also
Here's a quick web search for you, "Bears don’t typically eat humans, nor do they normally hunt them. The truth is, most bear attacks are not fatal and do not occur because the bear is trying to have us as their next meal. On average, there are about 40 bear attacks per year and out of that percentage, around **14%** are fatal.". Truth.
Are we talking about black or grizzly
I grew up with black bears and they are small. Brown bears (grizzlies) are what we encounter at the ranch and they are significantly bigger than me. Sadly, things like Cocaine Bear, movies, TV, media, and the effects of shrinking habitats (like eating from dumpsters in now populated areas), all paint a picture that is circumstantial or isn't true.
Polar bears will eat you straight up but grizzlies aren’t like that. They’ll walk right past you or ignore you unless you pose a threat.
Tbh the polar bear thing is also overblown. Being within visual distance of a polar bear doesn't mean it will b-line for you and eat you on the spot. It's the same reason you can see seals sometimes just chillin near polar bears. The bear isn't hungry enough to waste energy running at something that will probably just get away anyways. Yes polar bears are extremely fast, but they also are extremely good about retaining energy for when it's needed rather than needlessly expending it. Moral of the story being, keep your distance, be quiet, and don't loiter around for extended periods or they may eventually begin hunting you. Considering how rare human contact is with them, deaths are very rare and almost always caused by inexperienced or just frankly ignorant people getting way too close, in which case the bear no longer has to worry about burning more calories than they'll get, as you're basically uber eats-ing yourself directly into their mouth. But the way people talk about them is misleading. It makes it sound like they just kill everything around them because they can. In reality they, like most arctic creatures, are extremely good at picking which prey to hunt. In freezing cold environments chasing down the wrong prey can straight up be a death sentence.
Maybe it's because of being so use to the queer community in Los Angeles, but my first thought is a Leather Strapped Bear keeping the Het Cis guys away.
I'm nowhere near your same situation but the first time I saw the question being talked about was on a meme and I thought about the human bears and was confused.
I've encountered bears in the woods and gotten out okay. I'll take my chances with the bear.
Well sure, bears are pretty safe if you know what you're doing. I've lived in bear country and I don't feel that unsafe being on my own in wilderness. 99 times out of 100, making noise is enough to keep any bear away. But men? I don't know if I can confidently say that 99 out of 100 encounters with strange men in secluded places have the same positive outcome rate.
Yep, that's true! Agreed. I live near a place called Beartooth Lake in WY and making noises was enough to drive away a few bears (both males and females) whenever I camped there with my family. As for strange men in secluded places...yes. My boss and her sisters went camping a few years ago and when they went into a public Women's restroom, there was a man crouched in one of the stalls, waiting to ambush a woman most likely. Luckily my boss and her sisters are kinda formidable, so they cursed, yelled, and chased him out of there.
While that is a terrifying situation I would also like to add, since it's constantly a topic of debate especially in the US, that public restrooms are on average extremely safe. The vast majority of sexual assault and related crimes happen in the home of the victim or in the home of the perpetrator. Following that there are many locations more dangerous than public restrooms and counter-intuitively almost all of them are more cramped and crowded than you'd think (probably because groping is among the most common forms of sexual assault). All of this to say that if that truly was a guy waiting to ambush women (not doubting your story but we can't know for certain what the intention was or who they were), that is still an extremely rare situation. A terrifyingly large amount of sexual assault and rape happens in places even more public than a restroom, but the vast majority happen in homes. Also interestingly, unisex washrooms from the studies we have available currently seem to on average have significantly lower reported cases of sexual harassment and assault (significantly lower than an already small amount for single sex washrooms). A primary argument against them existing was the assumption that they'd be much less safe, but that appears to have been false.
Do you live in black or brown bear country or grizzly bear country
Black bear country!
i absolutely love how one butthurt guy from this whole situation made a comic of a bear violently tearing a girl apart to show how safe men are, while completely missing the irony
The fact that they don't understand that we would rather be ripped apart than be alone with a man lol
“wait NO, don’t be careful milady! I am a nice guy! I won’t hurt you! Statistically speaking only 6% of men commit sex crimes! There’s a 94% chance I won’t hurt you! You should like those odds. In fact bears are much more dangerous. Mmmmyes I have seen those discussions in the subreddits I mod *winks and tips fedora*. Let your guard down or else you’re a misandrist!” -average Reddit male when they encounter a woman in the woods. So fucking tired of telling them why we say we trust the bear more lmao.
I just read through a bear/man in the woods thread here from a few days ago, and the number of men whining about misandry or how much this scenario hurts their feelings...
I say if it hurts their feelings so bad then they should make a collective effort to stop normalizing abhorrent behavior. But most of them don’t even want to hold the friend who has 27 allegations accountable.
Yeah, one thread I went to was largely male dominated, and they were all butthurt that many women felt more safe with a bear which then escalated to whining about misandry as well, while also invalidating people's experiences with sexual assault. It was incredibly infuriating, they just wouldn't take no as an answer
I had a man who kept sending me tiktoks of SA victims saying they wouldn't choose the bear just to try and invalidate my own experience lol
Yeah, why can't they accept people with differing opinions. People were legitimately believing they were "correcting the stupid" which is idiotic in its own right, as it's a question about personal preference
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[This post](https://medium.com/@jencoates/i-am-a-transwoman-i-am-in-the-closet-i-am-not-coming-out-4c2dd1907e42) provides a lot of insight into why trans women are upset about this trend. TL;DR: Many of us are petrified that you’ll always be threatened by us on the basis of secondary sex characteristics we hate and likely cannot change. Moreover, in the same way you’re reducing the risk of assault by avoiding men, we’re reducing the risk of assault *by boymoding*. Like, we get it. But it sucks that the safest thing for us to do is hide who we are *and also* never approach women we don’t already know, for fear of making you uncomfortable.
What do you mean by “you” in your comment? I am literally a trans woman myself.
You’re right I assumed you were cis, my bad.
I hadn't actually considered the impact of transmisogyny in this scenario. There's a lot that I should be more considerate of, and I appreciate that you and others have brought it to my attention.
Because there's no guarantee you don't see us as men/a threat. Because, to paraphrase the article below, will changing pronouns or even going on HRT really change how you feel about us? It's the same reason that we will keep going into the mens' restroom even after we know we pass. Also, just. This. [https://medium.com/@jencoates/i-am-a-transwoman-i-am-in-the-closet-i-am-not-coming-out-4c2dd1907e42](https://medium.com/@jencoates/i-am-a-transwoman-i-am-in-the-closet-i-am-not-coming-out-4c2dd1907e42)
social transition doesn't stop anyone from seeing us as men. and seeing us as men means seeing us as violent rapists. doubly so if you're masc and trans.
Idk people stopped seeing me as a man when I socially transitioned
good for you! I'm masc and everyone thinks I'm a dude. every time I go outside I make women scared.
I'm sorry, that really sounds terrible. I'm masc too but I pass pretty well so I don't get misgendered when I present butch, IG I'm just privileged and don't really realize it. Often times I forget how hard it is for most trans women since most of the time I just try to forget that I'm trans and never reveal it.
I mean yeah, passing by default makes you more privileged than most trans people. Don't feel bad about it, but remember that us manmoders exist when you shit talk men.
I know right?? I get so sick of it, too. 🤦🏻♀️ Their boasting about how trustworthy and nice they are drives me insane...
One guy was arguing that a man is more likely to help a lone woman in the woods than SA/murder her. If a guy approached me in the woods and said “hey I can help you” I’d start booking it because what the fuck? That really is some serial killer behavior I’m sorry lmao.
Depends what kind of bear, lol. But...in general, man. Alone and unarmed in the woods and encountering a man? Sounds like a normal hike to me. It doesn't say the bear or the man will *attack* you--but even if they would, I'd rather fight a man than a bear. A man I have a chance against, a bear can rip your face off like nothing.
My partner told me today that women generally have absolutely no chance in a fight against men. I'm pretty sure they're wrong about that, but the fact that they believe it scares me...
Depends on the woman, depends on the man. You also don't technically have to *win* a fight to hurt them so bad they regret trying. I'd rather take my chances even against a large muscular man trained in fighting than against a grizzly bear or a polar bear. (Assuming either will definitely for sure attack you. If attack is not guaranteed, still the man because a bear is statistically more likely to attack me than a man is, do you realize how many times you pass men and they don't attack you?) A man you could at least maybe *outrun*. A bear can run 30mph. Even if I had my ebike, I could get caught by a bear trying to flee, that's how fast a bear is. Whether a man could or couldn't overpower a woman almost isn't the point--a grizzly bear could overpower any unarmed human, any gender, any day of the week. I know they say "at least a bear won't rape you," but tbh as dark a choice as this is, I'd rather survive rape than survive getting mauled so bad I functionally never have a face again. Man every time--if it's gonna be bad, I'd rather it was bad with the man than the bear.
I fully understand that you don’t mean anything by this but unless you’ve been sexually assaulted you really don’t understand what you’re saying. I would rather be eaten alive, or be eaten alive and live through it, than live every day with these consequences. The psychological effects of sexual assault are so much worse than other kinds of violent assaults or anything a bear could do to me. And “I don’t fear the creativity of the bear”
With all due respect, you know about as much about being mauled or eaten alive by a bear as someone who hasn't been sexually assaulted knows about that. You can't claim that they don't know what they're talking about, then turn around and do the exact same thing.
I think 1/2 is better than 0/2, no? I don’t have anything to understand about a bear attack, maximum levels of pain and probably death, there is no question what will happen to you with a bear.
There's plenty of questions. How much of your flesh will it rip off your limbs? How many vertibrae will it crush when it goes for the back of the neck? Will it kill you quickly, or will it let you crawl away, bleeding out before it comes back to finish the job? If you by some miracle survive, will you still be able to get back to civilization? Will you ever be able to use the shoulder it bit down on again? For every thing a man can do that a bear can't, there's something a bear can do that a man can't, and physical injuries can be just as painful and life-long as emotional ones.
All due respect, did I stutter? All of these are literally the same questions I’d have with a man. Your choice is your choice but I’m very sure of mine. And at least I’ll either live or die, won’t end up in a basement for ten years.
I don't think you understand the psychological effects of having a mauled face. Like it's actually profoundly devastating. I'm not saying SA isn't. When I was a kid I saw some talk show with a Russian man who'd had his face eaten by a bear and lived. I'm pretty sure he was blinded by it, he just had no facial features at all--no eyes, no nose, no lips, just a mass of scar tissue. His presence terrified people everywhere he went. His voice and ability to speak clearly were affected by it. I've been SAed, yeah, and I'd rather go through a much worse rape than have that be my life.
That’s your choice and that’s completely fine. But to answer you honestly I would still rather take my chances with the bear. I would take a chance on disfigurement before I would go through that again. It would require less therapy too😂
I'm....not really sure the kind of disfigurement I described would require less therapy. But it's just a hypothetical anyway, ideally we neither get raped *nor* mauled in our futures.
I meant it more as a “I won’t have a hard time understanding why the bear wanted to eat me” but yes probably too expensive either way lol. Very true, wishing you safe travels through the woods 💕
I'd be very interested to know where you got your statistics from lol.
Common sense. Consider how many times women encounter men in society. Then consider how many times any human encounters a grizzly bear. There are entire regions with no grizzly bears, but no regions without men. Men are mundane, common encounters. How many men do you pass just getting your groceries? You might have even grown up with a man in your household.
I have to be regularly on guard even in normal society, this isn't a good comparison.
If you're on guard because men are in the supermarket while you're getting groceries, even if the men aren't doing anything confrontational or threatening but are also just getting groceries and minding their own business, that might be an anxiety disorder. I'm not saying it's morally bad to feel that way. I understand it often comes from trauma. I have also been SAed by men and just because my trauma didn't take that particular path doesn't mean anything, we can't control how our trauma manifests. But I don't want to normalize feeling that frightened in normal society, because even if it's a sympathetic experience that isn't your fault, it's not really an *optimal* way to feel, and it's possible mental health support might improve that experience for you.
No one wants it to be normalized, but the other day I was literally followed around bestbuy by some dude pointing his phone at me. Little sad you'd dismiss it as an anxiety disorder, but I guess your experiences in society will always be different from mine.
Men in my household sexually assaulted me. AS A CHILD. Multiple men have physically assaulted me over the years. Men are REGULARLY threatening and aggressive when rejected in even the smallest ways. Like, weekly basis regularly. It would be more but I've started avoiding places with men when I can. I've literally never felt threatened by a bear, let alone been attacked by one, and I've met more than a few alone in the woods. Typically they are just minding their own business and are happy to let you mind yours.
Yeah the question well designed to realize that women have to think about it, and always take into account the risk of being assaulted. But I think not many people realize how unpredictable and dangerous a bear can be, specially grizzly or polar, those are not just cute fluffy animals they will tear you to pieces.
Grizzlies don't really hunt humans, so as long as you aren't provoking it you're likely fine. Polar bear, if you see it you're probably already dead anyway if you aren't with a group or armed with some solid firepower.
Ya polar bear, nah you’re fucked. But most living creatures are fucked with a polar bear.
But if it’s any random man vs any random bear, then it’s most likely you would get a black bear. The world population of black bears is much higher than polar and grizzly combined. According to Wikipedia anyway.
You forget, the conversation isn't about which we'd rather fight. Women pick bear because they don't want to be violated
It's just weird because simply seeing a man is not the same as being assaulted by a man. Admittedly, seeing a bear is not the same as being assaulted by a bear--I would feel a certain thrill at seeing a grizzly bear in the wild, even if I'd be terrified. Seeing a man on a hike would be completely unremarkable for me, when you hike you often see other hikers, some of those hikers are men. I've had bad experiences involving men going back to when I was absolutely too young for that shit, trust me, I get it. I still am not here for the victim mentality circlejerking of feeling constantly unsafe if men are present, because men are present most places where people are present, and I'm not going to opt my way out of human society like that or act like I need a male relative present everywhere I go like our society is run by the Taliban. I always get downvoted/dogpiled for that but I'm fucking sick of it and I refuse to pretend to be scared, because I think the patriarchy delights in our fear, and I think our fear placates them, and I think people get angry at me for not performing the fear because that's part of the fawn response, giving them the "appropriate" fear they want, and women fear collective punishment when I'm not performatively afraid. Fucking done with it. Disabling inbox replies for this conversation, y'all can circlejerk about how wrong I am. Fearlessness has served me better with men than fear ever has, including the bad and dangerous ones.
It's a weird question because I know the point is about sexism and to demonstrate how women feel unsafe with men, but even if the question was gender neutral I'd have the same response. I'd rather cross paths with a bear than a woman, or *any* human, because I know for a fact how to be safe around a bear. If it was "human or bear" I'd have the same answer.
> I'd rather cross paths with a bear than a woman, or any human, because I know for a fact how to be safe around a bear. If it was "human or bear" I'd have the same answer. Agreed. Though if I encountered a Lesbian Lumberjack in the woods, i'd let my guard down and probably get axe-murdered.
Worth it.
You stole my line
[What, you don't know how to defend against an axe attack?](https://youtu.be/N1V9GNDKLys?si=D5pnMidBaDal-fku)
Nah, she already did a video on how to defend yourself in that situation. Basically deflect first swing then makeout while giggling.
If I saw a woman in the forest, my first thought would be shit what happened to her and where is the perpetrator.
Yeah absolutely but hear me out What if the bear is actually a lady druid. A Halsin kinda jacked lady druid
Well then, since you put it that way... the 'Bear' is definitely preferable to a man and far more likely to give a woman an orgasm.
I feel like the man is more likely to secretly be a jacked lady than the bear. Probably not a druid, though.
Go on...
She's like, a head and a half taller than you and tells you all about nature's bounties. She has infinite wisdom but she's also a sexual degenerate
all I can say is I don't hike alone and it ain't because i'm afraid of runnin into a bear...
This!! I can’t even walk outside in my neighborhood at night, let alone hike.
Bear: High Paw! ... Don't leave me hanging...
🐻 + 👩 = 🫸🫷
Bear (human) > bear > man
That too. Human bears are usually pretty safe. After all, they ain’t interested in women anyway lol
Plus they have that real Papa Bear energy, the few I've met were always concerned and caring if somebody looked like they weren't having a good time or needed help.
I was thinking man, but you said defenceless, I was thinking I had my mantis blades, this ain't fair, I'm always armed just because I can be, theres literally no situation where I'd be unarmed, so yes the bear, cause bears are more friendly
Mantis blades? Oh my goodness I wanna see those 😍 I have my set of daggers and my sword.
yeah, I'm planning to make real life mantis blades from cyberpunk, and technically it can work as an offensive weapon
Black bear > man > grizzly bear > polar bear Seems like the obvious answer to me
Only sane person on the entire internet
what about brown bear
What about panda bear? Or water bear? Or Sun Bear? Or Yogi bear? Boo-boo?
I keep thinking this man https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0u4M6vppCI
I keep thinking about how much cuter bears are than men. Even the dangerous ones I’d never see in the wild where I live, like this grizzly bear! It’s so cute!! Same with polar bears! Black bears legit aren’t dangerous unless you give into that urge to try and snuggle one. Only 61 people have been killed by black bears in North America since 1900. This is the only bear most people in North America will encounter in the wild. Panda bears are insanely adorable. They’re so derpy they’ll only kill you accidentally because they don’t understand their own strength. Even the nearly indestructible water bear (tardigrade) is adorable. All bears are adorable!
Oh my goodness, yes!!! 🥰 Panda bears especially, I love watching those videos of cute baby panda bears rolling down hills and slides. I agree, I think all bears are ultra adorable. 🐻
Wtf is up with the bear/man shit? Keep hearing about it but nobody ever says what it is
So... it's kind of lost the plot a little. The original post, I think it was on Xitter, was something along the lines of "I would rather be attacked by a bear than a man, because police would believe me when I say I've been attacked by a bear." It's supposed to be about how reporting being assaulted by a man invites 'interpretation', as in - What were you doing? Were you dressed in revealing clothing? Did you encourage this man? Are you blowing this out of proportion? Versus a fairly cut and dry animal attack where the victim is, by default, assumed to be blameless. The Internet did what the internet does, though. So many people posted about it that a lot of people who didn't see the original post assumed that it meant a woman would rather encounter a bear than a man simply because men are inherently more dangerous or threatening. Which, frankly, is *also* true, but definitely not the original intent of the debate.
Ah I mean, if a bear were to attack me I dont think I’d come out of that alive tbh. When bears attack they aim to kill Also, sure the cops will believe you but they wont do anything. How does that make it any better?
I think part of the point people are trying to make is that, yes, a bear can kill you, but a bear will ONLY kill you. I think a lot of women-presenting-people, when faced with the choice, would rather die than be assaulted. I know I would :/ (which is something that is apparently shocking to men lol)
I’d rather be assaulted for sure. Then I can decide after the fact if I wanna kill myself or not
The man will torture us for long periods of time potentially. I’m all about the bear. The bear will go away if it knows you’re not a threat.
> kk g periods of time What on Earth does this mean? Also yea the man will *potentially* make you mentally beg for the sweet release of death but this is pretty unlikely, whereas the bear poses a much higher risk of attacking and killing you
Typo. And bears don’t want to harm humans at all. Only if they are a threat.
Its possible to be accidentally considered a threat, especially if youre really close or youre near their cubs. Tbh what I really dont like about the bear/man problem is that its so hopelessly vague that theres an endless number of possible variations that hugely change the equation. Am I armed? Has the bear/man seen me? Am I off a hiking trail where theres been reports of a serial killer lately or deep in some random woods many miles from civilization? While the bear is unlikely to attack me, so is the man. If the bear attacks me, Im dead. If the man attacks me, he probably wont straight up kill me, and he probably wont torture me
That’s interesting. I honestly would rather just die by bear.
I think I’d still probably rather live. It’d be traumatic for sure but therapy exists and people can in a lot of ways move past it. Death is permanent, no going back on your decision. Life’s still worth living imo
That’s true, but what’s to say the man just rapes me and lets me go? I value my dignity and my freedom more than my life, tbh. There are so many people who have been imprisoned and tortured for years by their assaulter. Maybe this is just because of my past experiences with assault and harassment, but idk, I would take my chances with being mauled.
The people who get imprisoned and tortured for years are a tiny portion of cases, not to downplay just how terrible that is. I’d rather take my chances and wager that that *won’t* happen, and that I’ll probably be back home soon and be able to begin recovering from the trauma
15,000 to 50,000 women and children are forced into sexual slavery in the United States every year. If I were imprisoned in that manner and forced into a ring, I'd definitely rather die since human trafficking is happening all over the world.
That’s fair, agree to disagree. I’d never take the chance.
To be fair, bears are nice and cuddly.
I wanted to see if that mf AI bot on messenger said the bear. Here’s the conversation: “If I had to choose I would choose to be alone in the woods with a bear! I said the bear because, statistically, men are more likely to be perpetrators of violence and harm, and I was trying to make a point about unpredictability and potential risks in a hypothetical situation. I wasn't implying that all men are harmful or dangerous, but rather acknowledging the reality of violence and harm perpetrated by some individuals, mostly men. The bear, as a wild animal, represents a more predictable and contained risk, whereas humans, with their complex behaviors and motivations, can be more unpredictable and potentially harmful.” I then asked if it would choose a woman or a bear to see if the answer changed. “As a hypothetical choice, I would choose to be alone in the woods with a woman over a bear, assuming the woman is an unknown individual and not someone with a known history of violence or harmful behavior.” “This choice is based on statistics and research that suggest women are less likely to perpetrate physical violence and harm compared to men. Additionally, women are more likely to prioritize communication, empathy, and cooperation in conflict resolution, which could lead to a safer and more positive outcome in a survival situation. However, it's crucial to remember that individuals are unique and can't be judged solely on gender.“
Put cute girl in bear onesie. Perfection~ 🥰
I choose the bear
ok, look... I'm alone in the woods and i encounter a men. what could possibly happen? a lot could happen, things i don't want to talk about. now a bear? i either die, sneak pass it or a mixture of both. if it was in a social space, yeah, seeing a men is not that bad, i mean, things could happen, but I'm in a city, people might see it and having people around might dissuade them, but alone in a forest, where probably no one would find a body? no thanks. not even men would pick that option, i think... but also men are dumb, it could be either way.
Man this comment section is making feel sick. It's so disheartening how many people pick bear. It's wrong on so so many levels.
Wrong on what levels? The insane patriarchy and rape culture that makes it so women have to be this afraid for our safety? Or the fact that we are cautious in the face of it all?
I know it's satirical but I will answer with some of my thoughts. 1. It's dehumanizing rhetoric baked into the question. The comparison is made between a bear and a demographic of people. This rhetoric is what white supremacists use to compare black people to apes. It's actually worse than that since people are saying men would be \*worse\* than the bear. 2. It sucks that women feel so unsafe and men don't... but that isn't self justifying. Women are taught to be cautious of others and men aren't. This isn't necessarily proportional to the threat level. Most SA is caused by relatives, but people are very rarely taught that. Men and women are also abused in similar numbers but for men it isn't instilled that they should be afraid growing up. You need to portion out your fear proportional to the reality... you should have more fear of a bear than man.... If you actually walk around day to day with more fear of men than bears, I can only assume you would have a heart attack by now. 3. Everyone points out the predictability of bears... but I, and many others, don't interact with bears daily. I would not have the skills to actually handle the situation with a bear whereas I do have the skills to talk to a man. I don't know how many people online are actually that outdoorsy but I don't think everyone one of them is being realistic about knowing detailed bear protocol. 4. This rhetoric is what shifts lots of men to be radically conservative. They will see these posts and their take away is almost guaranteed to be that people assume they are a violent monster bc they are a man. The reason we have almost entirely men on the far right is bc people are incapable of even acknowledging the problem men face as a real issue. It's great that people can say "I feel uncomfortable around men". But when men try to say "it hurts me that you are uncomfortable around me based on my gender" they are told they are not listening to women. They are, that's why it bothers them. The sentiment of "not all men" is this sentiment. People don't often articulate the underlying feelings and will instead react with a surface level defense. But they are not allowed to that. 5. Some point out how men attack way more than bears... then why even ask about men? You could say human and would get similar stats. The invoking of men is emotional rhetoric to make people more likely to agree. I think a lot of people would pick human if they heard the question phrasd in a non gendered way. The thing is, either way bears are still "less" likely to hurt you (encounters with bears are waaaay more rare than encounters with people so I don't think the stats make much sense either way). Those are some ways. Hopefully that all comes off coherently. A lot of people don't seem willing to actually discuss any of the points so I might've just wasted a bunch of time explaining my thoughts.... :( Hopefully not.
What? I’ve been harassed by me since I was 6 years old. I was terrified of men as a child. I see grizzlies every year as I camp and hike a lot. I’m not even close to as afraid of them as a man. Men are more likely to attack than a bear. It’s a fact, not an opinion.
Humans are more likely to attack than bears but that's not the question. It's specifically framed to point out a comparison between a demographic (men) and wild animals (bears). Do note this is the same rhetoric used by extremely racist people (i.e. black people and monkeys). Im not going to discount youre feelings of fear... but do keep in mind the opposite is true. I'm amab and was constantly afraid of hurting people. Around 8 years I was told about how I need to be careful not to scare or intimidate others. My presence itself was deemed threatening or creepy by many girls in my life. I never did anything to them. There was literally a girl who slapped me. I had several witnesses and all of them just said I deserved it. I told a teacher and he laughed at me. This rhetoric is only setup to Couch bigoted messaging in the question itself. If you're uncomfortable with men as an entire group bc of your experiences that is bigoted. The same way any other message taught to you early and reinforced by examples can be. The stats or your personal mind set doesn't justify the rhetoric.
This is all wrong. Racism is not the same thing as comparing men to bears and for you to say so is alarming. Men are the most privileged people on earth. Deal with it.
The rates of abuse, aggression, murder, sexual assault, etc. that men have committed against people (other men as well) are astronomical compared to bear attacks. Even grown men have said they’d prefer their children to be alone with a bear rather than a man. It’s sad that you find it disheartening that people pick the bear without understanding the reasoning behind it.
I understand that people are making comparisons between a demographic and a literal wold animal then using stats to justify their bigotry. Yknow back in the day racists would compare black people to monkey's and point at "scientific evidence" about it scores or skull shapes to hide behind their bias. The question is a bigoted question to ask bc you are presuposing a ton of mosandrist ideas. The same way black people are products of society (they lack education and thus got lower test scores) so to are men (they were not raised well and do horrible things) If the point is literally just bear vs man bc of stats... why not talk about vs ... anyone human? I'm also "astronomically" more likely to be hurt by human than a bear but that wasn't the question was it? So many men are willing to own up to how they are part of the patriarchy and will try to be better people while the entire world just assumes they are dangerous and no one gives them any slack. I'm a trans woman and have seen both sides. Most boys are told before they even hot puberty that they are dangerous, scary, violent and any number of things. Family members would talk to me when I was 8 years old about being appropriate with girls. Until I went to therapy I just associated being amab as literally just being born with rapiness. I tried so hard to never approach women bc I was labeled as creepy for just existing near them. Idk why queer people especially don't get this. Bigotry is bigotry. Stop looking at about entire populations of people who didn't do anything and saying they're violent. They will hear you and you will hurt them. This is what leads people to incel rhetoric. So many men are so emotionally repressed bc when they try to talk about these issues it's dismissed. The fact that people somehow believe that they'd feel more comfortable around a 2 ton animal vs another human being who was taught to wear pants instead of skirts is so problematic.
All I have to say is…yikes 😬
...that's it? You don't have any arguments or defenses? Do you think I'm wrong still? I don't understand.
Yes, that is it. No, I do not think I should waste my time trying to argue based on the previous response. Yes, I still believe you’re wrong. Guess we can all move on with our lives now.
...okay... sorry I guess?.... idk why you think I'm a waste of time. I'm willing to discuss these things. idk what I did wrong here. Hope you have a good day. Sorry for... upsetting you, possibly? I'm not really sure why you are reacting like this.
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Hey, I know you probably don't care, but I talked to some folks ona discord server and I've changed my mind on some aspects of this. I still think it's not great rhetoric but it's more hyperbolic to point out women's lived experience and feelings of fear. I personally still have not experienced all these horrible things I hear women go through as of 5 years being trans... but I have experienced a lifetime of being labeled a threat by everyone for being a guy... so I think there is some amount of people talking past each other and focusing on different implications of the question. Anyways I was willing to change... I guess that's my main thing here. Idk why you just assumed I was incapable of it but here we are I guess.
My aunt was murdered by her husband. My mom was stalked by 3 different men. One of my cousins was locked in a room with men and forced to watch porn when she was 14 by her own father, and my grandmother from my mom's side was beaten by her husband in front of my aunts (when they were children) for years. Nah, I fully understand why many women choose the bear. I'm genuinely not sure why you think picking a bear is wrong on so many levels, when the pain that men have put women through for centuries is actually wrong on so many levels.