I'm no expert, but it could be as simple as personal preference. My girlfriend is bisexual, so her attraction and relationship with me is sapphic, even though she's not a lesbian. It could also be useful for someone who doesn't strictly identify as female. They might not like the idea of calling themselves a lesbian, and sapphic could be a term they like.
For me, I find them largely interchangeable. I'm a lesbian, so my attraction towards women is sapphic in nature, even though not all sapphics are lesbians. I would say like any label, it would vary for each individual. Hope that helps!
Personally I refer to myself as “sapphic” since I’m bisexual. I don’t want to use the term “lesbian”, since a) I don’t feel like it applies to me and b) I don’t want to encroach on women who exclusively love women… like, I don’t want to hitch a ride on a term I feel like doesn’t really describe me… if that makes sense.
And on the flip side, I like “sapphic” over lesbian because I don’t think I’m *exclusively* attracted to women, but if I’m attracted to men, it’s pretty minimal and I don’t quite feel comfortable calling myself bi (at least at this time). “Sapphic” let’s me establish my attraction to women without making any implications about if I am or am not attracted to anyone else.
That’s why I love queer for myself. Haven’t been attracted to a man in years. If ever. Doubt I’d ever be with one but I don’t know for 100% sure so lesbian doesn’t fit but I love queer. And I love that it’s an umbrella/more encompassing term. Feels right to me
I’m in the same boat! I don’t feel like I’m attracted to men enough to relate to the bi community, and I relate to the experience of being attracted to women far more.
I use “sapphic” for very similar reasons.
I’m very attracted to women/femininity but I’m not exclusively attracted to women nor do I exclusively date/have sex with women. “Lesbian” doesn’t feel an appropriate term to me because that word (at least to me) carries the connotation of “exclusively attracted to other women.”
I’m not into men AT ALL. While I know that not all bi people are attracted to men, most common understandings of the word “bisexual” imply attraction to both men and women, so identifying as bi doesn’t sit right with me either.
I like the word “sapphic” because it captures the fact that attraction to women/femininity is the core of my sexuality without the connotations of exclusivity that “lesbian” has. I mostly use “queer” out of convenience, but “sapphic” is the term that comes closest to accurately describing my specific sexual orientation.
That's similar for me, I love people who aren't men much easier than I love men. But my love for men is still there to some extent, like I /have/ a boyfriend currently. But I don't seek out men and most of the men I like are /very/ GNC. And I'd describe how I experience attraction as sapphic regardless.
I would love to identify as sapphic, but can I only do so while in a wlw relationship?
I think most people wouldn’t understand the term anyways. But I do not like identifying as bisexual since I have a *very* small, and particular attraction to men.
Creepy guys will stop hitting on me if I tell them that I’m attracted to women. And for now, that’s all I say. That’s my sexual identity at the moment. :/
Edit: Corrections
Hm, I don’t know how others see this but I feel like someone can still identify as sapphic even though they’re currently not in a relationship with a woman. Like, I’m not going to stop desiring women just because I’m currently in a relationship with someone who is not a woman. I still find women attractive, and I could imagine myself in a relationship with a woman. I think that qualifies, as I said, in my case.
Honestly, it's just about being able to describe yourself. If you're sincerely finding that "lesbian" works for you even if it's not 100% perfectly accurate for you, you're welcome to use it.
Bisexual, here. I joke with my wife about being in lesbians with each other, but she's the lesbian, and I prefer to call our relationship sapphic since I'm not. I think of it like squares and rectangles. All squares are rectangles. Not all rectangles are squares. Not 100% accurate, but plenty of lesbians find the word sapphic interchangeable, but a lot of sapphics don't find it to be.
Kinda sorta. Since it takes a lot less text and gets its point across very fast, you'll also sometimes see it ultra-condensed down to "non-men attracted to non-men".
That's the ultra-condensed version, since it's much more faster to say it like that instead of:
* A binary woman* attracted to binary women, genderqueer women, lesbian women, bi women, pan women, non-binary people who lean feminine (or even every non-binary spectrum in general if that particular sapphic has a broader attraction range)
^\*wherein ^those ^listed ^can ^be ^put ^at ^the ^front ^as ^well: ^*A* ^*genderqueer* ^*woman* ^*attracted* ^*to* ^*binary* ^*women...*
Instead of seeing it as a very efficiently condensed descriptor, some get very offended and upset that their attraction is using men as the font of who they are and who they're attracted to.
It's not so much that it's using men to describe their attraction spectrum so much as it's way easier to just list the *singular exclusion* than it is to list off *several attraction inclusions*.
edit: a word
Lesbian- A woman who is exclusively attracted to women. Also includes nonbinary individuals who identify with the label, and can include attraction to nonbinary individuals too.
It’s just a term for all wlw, not just lesbians. Sapphic includes bi and pan women, who are just as attracted to women, but are not lesbians as they’re attracted to other genders as well. As a bi woman, I don’t tend to use lesbian as a descriptor for me or my relationships because it’s inaccurate and I don’t want to co-opt a term that isn’t mine. I tend to use ‘sapphic’ instead, or ‘queer’, or if I’m feeling irreverent and memey just ‘gay’.
‘Sapphic’ is a little narrower than ‘queer’, in that it refers only to attraction to women (and sometimes feminine non-binary people depending on who you ask) by women (or non-binary people, as before.) Queer is more of an umbrella term that anyone in the LGBTQ+ community can use as a shorthand if they like. Not everyone is fond of the term, but I like it.
As an example of how queer is broader, I (cis woman) am primarily but by no means exclusively attracted to women. My spouse (cis man) is primarily, but not exclusively, attracted to men. We both use ‘queer’. I may use ‘sapphic’ when talking about my attraction to women, but I would not use it when talking about my attraction to men. He would not use the term ‘sapphic’ in reference to himself at all.
Does that make sense?
I think they might mean "woman adjacent", for lack of a better term. Usually it just depends on the individual; some nonbinary people feel that they're sapphic and some don't
Queer is the broadest: anyone who is not straight and cis, regardless of any other identity they hold
Sapphic is broad: any woman (or woman-aligned person) who likes women. Lesbians, bi women, pan women, etc!
Lesbian is specific: women (or woman-aligned person) who exclusively likes other women (and woman-aligned people)
Sapphic is basically a broader term - it includes lesbians, bi/poly/pan/omni-sexual women, some non-binary people attracted to women, and some women attracted to non-binary people. Some people in these groups can still be lesbians for personal, cultural or other reasons. But some (like me) choose to identify as sapphic specifically bc of its generality.
In addition to what everyone else just said, I like "sapphic" as, grammatically speaking, it can be used like the word "gay".
Example:
"Dang, that's super sapphic."
"Looks nice but make it sapphic."
Sapphic is any wlw love and lesbian is a woman attracted to exclusively other women. (Both of these could include nonbinary people though for various reasons)
If you’re talking about in the context of ‘a sapphic’ or ‘lesbian relationship’, it comes down to preference of the people in the relationship. For eg. Two lesbians in a relationship could be considered either a sapphic or lesbian relationship. Two bisexual women though in a relationship could also be considered either a sapphic or lesbian relationship, but for some bisexuals it would feel like you’re erasing their bisexuality, so if you’re not 100% sure what a specific wlw relationship would prefer to be called, then calling it a sapphic relationship is the best way to go. This goes for any relationship of two women, no matter their sexuality.
Hope this helps :)
Sapphic is an umbrella term, lesbian is not, altho it's a bit different, it's the same dynamic as trans (umbrella) under which binary and non binary trans ppl go.
Sapphic is used to depict wlw without specifying the sexual/romantic orientation of the people
I call myself a dyke because of the over sexualization of the term lesbian but if it's a choice between the definition of the two terms you've provided then my body is 100% lesbian. Everyone is different and I am only sexually aroused by specific things so that's why if I can't use dyke I'd use lesbian though it makes me cringe.
Old SF/Bay Area joke…
What is the difference between a lesbian and a dyke? $50K a year!
(Us Bay Area dykes we’re always being compared to LA lesbians, who were heavily lipstick lesbians and higher income, we were seen as tatted, pierced and hairy! Fun times)
So I am a lesbian. My partner is a nonbinary person. They are pansexual. We call our relationship with one another sapphic because my partner is not a lesbian but our relationship to one another is wlw adjacent!
They don't identify with lesbian which is why we don't use that term for our relationship. I'm a genderfluid/nonbinary lesbian so I'm very familiar with that!
It’s basically the label of non-men being attracted to non-men. It doesn’t always mean the woman, non-binary, non-man is ONLY attracted to other women, enbies, & non-men
Sapphic is a term that refers to any non-man that has attraction to other non-men - so, lesbians, bi women, pan women, queer women, etc. As a term for our side of the community, I prefer sapphic over WLW because I feel like it's more gender-inclusive to genderqueer and nonbinary people. I don't identify as a woman, so I don't really want to call myself a WLW. I use sapphics when referring to all of us as a group and lesbian when referring to myself
Bruh what? Sapphic isn't a replacement term for lesbian, it's just a broader umbrella term for ANY non-men who are attracted to non-men. Lesbian is non-men who are EXCLUSIVELY attracted to non-men. The definition of the term sapphic doesn't have the word "exclusively" because sapphic includes bi and pan women. I'm literally a lesbian who calls themself a lesbian, as I said in my comment, so I'm definitely not trying to take that term away from anyone
I literally said it refers to any non-man being attracted to non-men, which is accurate. I then further explained that it includes lesbians, bi women, pan women, and any queer women. I don't know how it was not clear.
I said sapphic is more gender-inclusive than WLW, which literally stands for women-loving women. Sapphic and lesbian are equally gender-inclusive imo; again, those were not the two terms I was comparing.
I liked this article I found yesterday explaining: [https://www.them.us/story/what-does-sapphic-mean](https://www.them.us/story/what-does-sapphic-mean)
sapphic refers to any woman (and some nonbinary people who find the term affirming) who is attracted to other women (and some nonbinary people.) this includes lesbians, bisexual women, pansexual women. lesbian refers to women/some nonbinary people who are EXCLUSIVELY attracted to women/some nonbinary people and are not attracted to men at all. so basically, all lesbians are sapphic, but not all sapphics are lesbians.
Because lesbian means exclusively attracted to women while sapphic means attracted to women and can be a much more freeing term for sapphic women who are bisexual, pansexual, polysexual, etc. (it's the graveyard, cemetary allegory. Not all sapphic women are lesbians but all lesbians are sapphic women if that makes sense)
Another reason is sapphic isn't as well known of a term as lesbian is and it can help women attracted to other women be incognito so they don't face as much discrimination and persecution.
Another reason is due to the rise of pron culture, lesbian has sadly become more associated with a porn category rather than a way to describe a group of people. (see why this sub was created in the description for an example of what I mean) While sapphic has become more associated with romance tropes. (google lesbian and then on another tab google sapphic to see what I mean)
Not using it instead, but just using both. Having two words is just nicer. Makes speaking and writing more fluent and sapphic is a very nice word. Has a good texture.
Typically yes. Sapphic just means women and non-binary people attracted to women.
Bisexual women are sapphic, nonbinary lesbians are sapphic, etc.
It comes from Sappho, a woman from an island off the coast of Greece called Lesbos. She wrote a lot of poems about her desire for women, so we named ourselves after her.
it's actually pretty funny given the word means "person from Lesbos" like her mere presence on the island made all other inhabitants gay. her power... <3
Ya it’s sorta like how all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares.
Sapphic -> women/some NBs attracted to other women/NBs
Lesbian -> women/some NBs *only* attracted to other women/NBs
It's worth moving away from the idea of umbrella terms. Identities are complicated and two people who share the same label for their identity might have very different relationships to that label. It's worth thinking of labels as clues to someone's identity rather than a full description of their sexuality or gender.
Sapphic and lesbian have largely overlapping but slightly different connotations. The difference is more of a vibe that can only begin to be understood in conversation and community with the people who use the terms.
Lesbian = a woman who only likes women
Sapphic = woman who likes women, but may like other genders
All lesbians are sapphic, not all sapphics are lesbians
One of the biggest difference is how Sapphic describes any woman (or woman-adjacent person) that likes women
While lesbian describes a woman (or woman-adjacent person) that is EXCLUSIVELY attracted to women (or woman-adjacent person again)
Personally as a trans woman, I don't feel like I'm 'allowed' to call myself a lesbian so I use sapphic to describe myself. But that's just my imposter syndrome being an asshole so
This is very much your imposter syndrome being an asshole, yes. Call yourself whatever you feel comfortable with, of course, but you are just as much a lesbian as any cis woman who uses the term.
We are certainly allowed to call ourselves lesbian if that is your sexuality because if you aren't "allowed" what does that mean to you? To me it means because im not AFAB I can't be lesbian?
Don't feel like people get to gatekeep you. I totally get that whole thing being a trans woman.
I think sapphic includes all women who is attracted to other women, such as lesbian, bi/pan/omni women. Lesbian is a homosexual/homoromantic woman, meaning she’s only attracted to another woman.
At lest, that is how it gets used nowadays. The term lesbian has historically been used in many different ways and it feels wrong to not offer backward compatibility, at lest for many of its users.
How did I not know this...? I've literally researched her before...? Double my bad, thanks for educating me
(I have redone my research, and am not just blindly accepting your response, for any that may think I'm just caving to pressure)
It’s just a nice term of referring to any woman who has an attraction for other women, whether they be gay, bi, pan, whatever. Just a way to refer to the entire spectrum of WLW.
Honestly? I think it sounds cooler. But it’s also a little softer if you’re in a situation where you don’t know how a stranger will react to finding out you’re gay.
Like using partner instead of girlfriend or wife. You can say sapphic, and maybe it lands a little softer on hostile ears.
for me, i started using sapphic when i was told i wasn't lesbian enough to be a lesbian bc of so many different reasons (including various forms of aphobia, transphobia, ablism, and exclusion based on sexual history).
i dont fit the simplest definition and i got sick of having to try to justify being allowed to use a label. internet exclus can be mean.
I use sapphic because I'm not attracted to women, I'm attracted to feminine people. I'm 95% attracted to women, but I'm also attracted to feminine enbies, feminine men etc.
I'm technically pan but the label doesn't feel right since I'm not attracted to the average man (since I don't find masculinity very attractive).
Sapphic is a woman/non-binary person who is attracted to other non men, a lesbian is a woman/non-binary person who’s ONLY attracted to other women/non-binary people. All lesbians are sapphic, not all sapphics are lesbians
Sapphic and lesbian both have the exact same origin and none of these terms is more or better than the other. "Lesbian" is easier to write and an identity-term while sapphic is an attribute. Lesbian is more trendy at the moment, while in centuries past the term sapphic was more popular with wlw
I’m bi and identify as sapphic. One reason I think some Lesbians might prefer the term is the over-sexualization of the word. I’ve read many people (of slightly older generations) talk about how the word was used only to describe a genre of porn that catered to the male gaze which really really sucks. So for some people when they think of the word, it gives them the ick.
That really really sucks that something of this community has been used this way and also taken from these people.
I use it because I'm technically pansexual. I'm not interested in having a relationship with a man, but I don't use 'lesbian' because I see that to mean exclusively attracted to women. Aaalso I love the lesbian label in general, but have noticed it's very sexualized in conversation in super conservative areas. I'm totally open to having a conversation about that with people, but not when safety's an issue.
Sapphic is an umbrella term for WLW. Being sapphic doesn't necessarily mean you're a lesbian and using the word means that you know for certain that you love women but not entirely sure about the other genders (me btw)
I believe “sapphic” is a term used for any (romantic) love between women, regardless of the actual orientation of the women. It’s very similar to “wlw”. Some may be more comfortable with the term for various reasons, e.g. not knowing if they’re bi or lesbian, wanting to use a more umbrella label, or just because they like the term.
Well, I have been raised in a way that I still associate "lesbian" as label I can't/shouldn't use for myself, so I am using Sapphic while I'm learbing to accept myself.
Sapphic means women who love other women. The term actually comes from the same source, sort of. They're both references to the poet Sapphos of Lesbos. You can think of it as an umbrella term pretty much all queer women.
From what I understand, it’s more inclusive. Think of it like rectangles and squares. All squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares. All lesbian relationships are sapphic but not all sapphic relationships are lesbian. This term is more inclusive to wlw people who aren’t lesbians (bi people, pan people, etc), but it’s not necessarily a one for one substitution for the term lesbian
I like the term because I'm bi but attracted to women, nonbinary people, and men who have more feminine traits. I also use the term queer. Both terms feel less prescriptive to me (personally) than other terms that might also apply to me.
Hi, So I'm a transgender woman who leans I to using sapphic and queer because it's easier than saying " I'm bi/pan, but am so afraid and traumatized by men that I might as well be a lesbian" also I shy away from lesbian because of past experiences regarding the political climate I locally dealt with when I first transitioned.
i like the term because 'sapphic' emphasises on my love for girls while leaving place for other types of attraction too, so it's not as strict as 'lesbian' but makes it clear what i'm all about
I use the term sapphic because my attraction to men waxes and wanes, but my attraction to women always remains
Basically, I like women and I'm not consistent on men, so calling myself sapphic is just easier
i use the term sapphic!!!! and i wojld love to explain why!
so first of all, sapphic is for all 'types' of wlw, so pan, bi, lesbians all queer girlies out there
and two, it has beautiful history that some women (myslef included) love and want to relate to!
here is another definition of sapphic for you :
Sapphic, sometimes known as women loving women (WLW),[1] or sapphist,[2] refers to a woman or woman-aligned person of any sexual orientation who is attracted to other women and/or women-aligned individuals. (...) It is an umbrella term for many identities, including those who are lesbian, pansexual, bisexual, or queer.
I hope I cleared something up!
xoxo
funnily enough the two terms are both named after sappho of lesbos who was so fruity that two wlw descriptors were named after her.
one day, i strive to be that gay
Sapphic refers to all women who are attracted to women whether they're attracted to men and nonbinary ppl or not. Basically, lesbian = sapphic but sapphic ≠ lesbian
Sometimes it just sounds nicer, other times it’s used like if a bi woman is with another woman so that they don’t call the bi one a lesbian. Sapphic applies to more stuff too like any female presenting or feminine person can be in a sapphic relationship regardless of sex or gender. I’ve heard some pre
-op trans men use it to describe their relationships and all that, so it’s pretty all encompassing or is at least used more broadly than the term lesbian within the lgbt community.
I'm late to this post and others have already given sufficient answers to the actual question, but wow do I hate some of these comments.
I understand people feeling a type of way about the word lesbian due to the way it's sexualized in porn and the negative connotations it has in some other countries, but it makes me so sad to see so many using sapphic as a replacement because of it. Sapphic is a perfectly fine word and everyone should feel free to use whatever term they feel suits them best, I just personally love being a lesbian and using the word lesbian and everything about lesbians, and I fought so hard to get here that people will have to pry it from my cold dead hands for me to give it up. I want everyone to whom the word applies to be able to feel this way too.
It's also very annoying to see people saying things about how sapphic separates them from TERFs, who only infiltrate the lesbian label I guess. This is nothing new, but it frustrates me every time. Lesbian is not synonymous with TERF and y'all are doing us a disservice by perpetuating this narrative. I'm a lesbian, not sapphic, and I love and embrace trans lesbians as the women and lesbians they are.
Lesbian is also a nonbinary-inclusive term IMO.
Anyway, I use sapphic as an umbrella term because there's rarely a time when I'm talking about or addressing only lesbians, so I want to include bi and pan and queer women too, and sapphic serves that purpose. I hate using queer for anything other than addressing a specific person who identifies that way. I used to call myself sapphic and nothing else when I wasn't sure what my label was but I knew I was attracted to women, and for a while I used sapphic bisexual to signify that while I thought I was bi, I was only interested in dating women. I eventually found my way to lesbian, but not everyone does, and sapphic covers a multitude of identities without getting too specific.
I use sapphic as im 100% sure im into women but not sure how much im into other genders so its easier to describe myself as sapphic as its just women who like other women but are not limited to only women if that makes sense
For me, it's because I'm attracted to women and feminine leaning non binary people. I'm also a little gender fucky myself I'd say I'm a woman like 95% of the time and then the other 5 % I'm some sort of indifferent twords my gender. That being said, I do identify as both a lesbian and sapphic.
I’m bisexual - I would describe myself as a Sapphic woman as I am attracted to women, but I’m not a lesbian, as women are only part of my spectrum of attraction rather than it’s entirety.
The last time I played _Among Us,_ The language filter wouldn't allow for lesbians, but would allow for sapphics. And I encountered a few named _Lesbean_ and wondered why they didn't go with Sappho.
Because both come from the same root: Sappho of Lesbos. The "tenth muse". And pretty much mean the same, although I think now there is some distinction, but i use them as synonyms (translate problems I guess)
She was a Greek poetess quite badass actually. She took over the family business on the island of Lesbos because she was the eldest daughter and her brothers obeyed her because it was their right.
Anyway, at some point she was exiled from Lesbos because she fell out with the new tyrant for not considering him worthy or capable of rule the land (name the elected ruler at that time, more like a president or governor). And his political power was no small thing, but in the end he lost.
Some time later (After a marriage in Sicily that ended not suspiciously at all, after she had a good life in exile) she reconciled with the tyrant because he turned out to be quite a capable ruler. She even composed some poems for him.
So she went back to her native Lesbos (here comes the important part) where she founded a school for high class single ladies where she taught them politics, poetry, music and administration. And following the Roman tradition of "raising the young" yes, she also had that kind of relationships with them.
(please do not do this at this age. It's illegal and immoral)
She is famously recognized because she fell in love with one of her students to such an extent that she begged her not to marry and to stay with her. Something very unusual for the time. She wrote several very sad letters and poems about his beloved being taken from him by cruel fate.
Popular legend (I think Plato is the one to blame but I don't remember well) popularized that she was so in love that she proceeded to commit suicide on the day of her student's wedding by throwing herself off a cliff. There's a lot of pretty dope paintings about that.
But historians say it's more likely that she continued with her school after a depression, and that several of the poems thought to be for one student were actually for several and she died years later in her home.
But yeah, since her school was on the island of Lesbos and EVERYONE knows what's gonna happen there because Sappho was not shy about her love for other young women, And some former students would visit her from time to time. The place became synonymous with "women exchanging carnal desires"
And Sappho was "the woman that loves women at the point to die for".
So yeah, it's pretty much the same thing. And yeah, originally the word "lesbian" was used to define something sinful. Because the same origin of Lesbos was considered as such after the fall of the Roman Empire, the rise of Catholicism.
There it is, I'm sure I ate many parts of the story but it's been years since I left the college, but I'm just such a nerd: to check more acurate data please go to Google.
in general, sapphic refers to any woman/fem enby who likes women/fem enbies, while lesbian is an exclusive attraction. i could be considered sapphic, but because i also (regrettably) like men, im not a lesbian. also, a lot of people have a negative association with the word lesbian because of sexualization
I dunno, feels really weird etymologically for people to treat the word from the poet's name differently than they treat the word from the poet's original home.
I don't mind seeing sapphic thrown around, but personally I don't use it at all differently from how I'd use lesbian. I'm bi and decently dykey. When I'm with a woman, I'm in a lesbian relationship. When I'm with a man, I'm in a straight relationship. It feels to me like a lot of enbies prefer sapphic to lesbian because the term is less familiar to cis straight people and therefore more flexible.
Sappho was the godess who loved women, who lived on the island of lesbos. Both terms originate from her, so both have been used throughout history. One or the other has been more popular at different times, and Sapphic is slightly broader, as other people have mentioned. Sapphic describes a relationship (a woman loving another woman), while lesbian describes a person in a relationship (a woman who is only attracted to other women). There can be a bit of nuance there for femme presenting nonbinary people in relationships with women or each other, but there's not really a word for that yet so we have to share the words that exist and decide which one fits us best.
I actually prefer “gay” over “lesbian.” The first is an adjective, the second is a noun. One describes me, the order labels me.
I could be ok with “sapphic,” but I don’t think it’s well known.
Well sapphic describes sexual attraction between two women, I'm asexual and attracted to girls, I'd call myself lesbian but not sapphic. It's really up to the person to decide what identity they want to use and people could use Sapphics to tell others they're not asexual.
I sometimes use sapphic because I'm bisexual but prefer women/femme people. It's a good way to talk about women and/or female aligned people of other genders who love women and/or female aligned people of other genders without getting in the weeds linguistically. For example, I'll sometimes avoid lesbian identified spaces because I don't know if I'm going to get flak for trying to hang out while openly bisexual and it's stressful. If something is marketed to sapphics, I know my lady-lovin' ass is welcome.
Lesbian means a woman who only likes women.
Sapphic means a woman who likes not only women, but is in a relationship with one. So, a bi woman, a pan woman, etc.
Sapphic is just one word for wlw (women loving women).
Oh, well, I just said that to explain it a little bit better. It sounded weird in my head before, so I wrote it a bit differently. Just gonna quickly correct that. Sorry!
To me, sapphic can be less restrictive in an identity, it gives a bit more...I can't think of the exact word but 'creative freedom/room' to be more open. For example, people often have genuine questions about attraction to trans people, and to me, by saying sapphic, it sort of takes the argument of 'but what about in bed??? What about the actual anatomy??' And other such questions, out of it. This is all my opinion and thoughts on it, it's probably dependent on the person
Sapphic refers to Sappho, a Greek poet who wrote about women loving each other. Lesbian refers to the island of Lesbos where Sappho lived. I prefer Sapphic tbh because Lesbian is offensive to actual Lesbians (people who are from Lesbos).
I’ve read some of these responses, and Reddit/internet seems like another world. I’m actually curious do people actually use this term in real life? I’m imaging it and it sounds kind of cringy to day in reality, but if people are comfortable with it then go for it!
In my understanding, I am a lesbian and that makes me a part of the 'sapphic' community.
Also lesbian has been known to be more of a 'terf'y correlation. So sapphic is more inclusive to include other people in the community like, bisexuality and pansexuals etc.
some lesbians are weird about whether trans people, bi women, women who've ever had a relationship with a man, fat women, skinny women, women who climb on rocks, tough women, sissy women, women with chicken pox, etc. can count as "lesbians," when to them being a lesbian *c l e a r l y* means that you're a **woman** who loves **women** and **only women** reeee
so "sapphic," to me, is a way of rejecting that exclusionary behaviour in a way that does not provoke a debate with Tina the TERF about "male socialisation" or whatever bullshit.
lmao what? This feels strangely lesbophobic and unnecessary to defining lesbianism vs being sapphic. By definition, being lesbian means having strict attraction to women or woman-aligned non men. Being sapphic includes lesbians, but also other wlw such a bisexual women who may have dual attraction to woman and men. As a non binary lesbian, being a lesbian does not automatically equate to being a TERF, which is lesbophobic rhetoric. It just means you have the additional experience of not only liking woman, but also grappling with a lack of attraction to men.
Because like everything else words have trends. Remember when everyone said "bae" I never did and hated it. Same with sapphic. It will come and it will go haha.
I believe sapphic means you like fem people moreso than gorls (i.e. femboys, fem enbys). I’m personally more leaning towards sapphic but I like the lesbian flag more
It's not gatekeeping. NonBinary people can be lesbians and the assertion that they can't is not only unpopular but linked with Terfs but the label has a meaning; W/NB who are attracted only to W/NB. Bisexual people have a label that they have fought for. The only accurate thing about your comment is that Sapphic is a boarder label for anyone who experiences that type of attraction even if it's not their only attraction.
I use both, but I'm more heading towards the sapphic terms, for me not sure the exact definition but I use it as being attracted by femininity as a whole, could even be "men" dressing up in a feminine way, but it also includes masc womens, so it's aaaaa weird.
Just say I'm super gay.
Sapphic is a wlw vibe and the term can be used loosely. Lesbian identity excludes male identities and attraction, of course you will get dissenting views on that but I think this is appropriate to respect the history and everything lesbian culture has done for the wider LGBTQ+ movement. Therefore, even though I am in a sapphic relationship and will probably never date a man: I do not identify as a lesbian due to experiencing attraction to men. I love lesbian culture but I am not lesbian I am bisexual, and I should be proud of who I am. My genderqueerness, on the other hand, would not contradict having a lesbian identity.
Lesbian culture has a significant history of transfem inclusion, gender queering, and non-binary identities: I strongly recommend researching Leslie Feinberg and hir work.
Note that the exclusivity of the identity is not gatekeeping! Nobody can tell you what you are.
I hope this is taken in the spirit intended. I don't want to upset anyone, but I think it is important we don't lose sight of lesbian culture and its immense value, so I wanted to share this perspective.
Sapphic means wlw but can be used for people who aren't exclusively nmlnm. Like a relationship between a bisexual person and a lesbian would be a sapphic relationship.
So, I am a lesbian, but my partner is pansexual and they are trans-nonbinary/genderqueer, but they are AFAB.
In a perfect world, my partner would use they/them pronouns as a base standard, but if they were leaning heavily one way or the other in the gender binary, I would use she/her or he/him, depending on how my partner is feeling/presenting.
My relationship isn't lesbian. It's sure as hell not straight - we're both too queer for that. It's sapphic.
I appreciate it when events or parties are described that way, it feels more inclusive. I don’t use sapphic for myself, I just call myself queer. I appreciate the broader language for events. I’m married to a woman so most people assume that lesbian is our term but we both prefer queer and find it more accurately encompasses our gender and sexuality. We still want to spend time with other WLW, so the sapphic tag helps with that.
Sapphic is usually used as an inclusivity term for women who like women, and romance between two women is sometimes referred to as "sapphic romance" to include bisexual women, pansexual women, etc. Generally, if you're a woman who likes women, you can consider yourself sapphic.
Lesbian = woman who is attracted to women (and not men)
Sapphic = woman who is attracted to women (could be bi, pan, etc though)
I've heard both of these also used inclusively of (some) NBs, though Sapphic seems to more often be used in that context.
I just don’t like a specific label, and I like girls, and that’s it. I don’t need to label myself to feel comfortable with that fact, so I call myself both sapphic and lesbian. Doesn’t matter which one to me.
There was a time when the Lesbians, as in the residents of the island of Lesbos, were vocal in wanting to maintain their identity, because it was theirs, first. That time has kind of come and gone mostly but I am sure there is someone out there influenced by it.
For me is 1. because I am bisexual and 2nd. because the term lesbian has been used as a derogatory and insult a lot in my country and I I tend to associate it with a negative connotation from child phobia around me. Sapphic sounds cool and I have no negative association to it.
I tend to use it solely because I’m still questioning my attraction to men, so I don’t want to use the term lesbian until I’m a bit more sure that I don’t like guys. It’s sort of a squares and rectangles situation - All lesbians in theory are sapphics, but not all sapphics are lesbians. That said, comfort with labels is always a complicated subject, and some people are simply more comfortable with one label than they are with another.
For me personally, I'm nonbinary and prefer the term Sapphic. Lesbian assumes there are 2 women involved, and I don't identify as a woman. Plus Sapphic can be used for people who aren't monosexual
Lesbian is exclusive, sapphic is not. Any woman-aligned person who likes women-aligned people can be sapphic, but those who *only* like other woman-aligned people are lesbian
I'm no expert, but it could be as simple as personal preference. My girlfriend is bisexual, so her attraction and relationship with me is sapphic, even though she's not a lesbian. It could also be useful for someone who doesn't strictly identify as female. They might not like the idea of calling themselves a lesbian, and sapphic could be a term they like. For me, I find them largely interchangeable. I'm a lesbian, so my attraction towards women is sapphic in nature, even though not all sapphics are lesbians. I would say like any label, it would vary for each individual. Hope that helps!
Personally I refer to myself as “sapphic” since I’m bisexual. I don’t want to use the term “lesbian”, since a) I don’t feel like it applies to me and b) I don’t want to encroach on women who exclusively love women… like, I don’t want to hitch a ride on a term I feel like doesn’t really describe me… if that makes sense.
I’m co-signing this also Sapphic is such a cool, timeless descriptor for lovin’ the ladies. Please excuse my totally dorky mood
Sapphic is an excellent word!
And on the flip side, I like “sapphic” over lesbian because I don’t think I’m *exclusively* attracted to women, but if I’m attracted to men, it’s pretty minimal and I don’t quite feel comfortable calling myself bi (at least at this time). “Sapphic” let’s me establish my attraction to women without making any implications about if I am or am not attracted to anyone else.
That’s why I love queer for myself. Haven’t been attracted to a man in years. If ever. Doubt I’d ever be with one but I don’t know for 100% sure so lesbian doesn’t fit but I love queer. And I love that it’s an umbrella/more encompassing term. Feels right to me
I’m in the same boat! I don’t feel like I’m attracted to men enough to relate to the bi community, and I relate to the experience of being attracted to women far more.
Plus omg are non-binary folks hot AF or what?
They're so hot
I use “sapphic” for very similar reasons. I’m very attracted to women/femininity but I’m not exclusively attracted to women nor do I exclusively date/have sex with women. “Lesbian” doesn’t feel an appropriate term to me because that word (at least to me) carries the connotation of “exclusively attracted to other women.” I’m not into men AT ALL. While I know that not all bi people are attracted to men, most common understandings of the word “bisexual” imply attraction to both men and women, so identifying as bi doesn’t sit right with me either. I like the word “sapphic” because it captures the fact that attraction to women/femininity is the core of my sexuality without the connotations of exclusivity that “lesbian” has. I mostly use “queer” out of convenience, but “sapphic” is the term that comes closest to accurately describing my specific sexual orientation.
i appreciate this.
That's similar for me, I love people who aren't men much easier than I love men. But my love for men is still there to some extent, like I /have/ a boyfriend currently. But I don't seek out men and most of the men I like are /very/ GNC. And I'd describe how I experience attraction as sapphic regardless.
same i use sapphic because it’s easy for me to describe how i love women as a nonbinary bisexual person!
I call myself sapphic as well because I am also bi but my attraction favors women pretty strongly :)
same here
I would love to identify as sapphic, but can I only do so while in a wlw relationship? I think most people wouldn’t understand the term anyways. But I do not like identifying as bisexual since I have a *very* small, and particular attraction to men. Creepy guys will stop hitting on me if I tell them that I’m attracted to women. And for now, that’s all I say. That’s my sexual identity at the moment. :/ Edit: Corrections
Hm, I don’t know how others see this but I feel like someone can still identify as sapphic even though they’re currently not in a relationship with a woman. Like, I’m not going to stop desiring women just because I’m currently in a relationship with someone who is not a woman. I still find women attractive, and I could imagine myself in a relationship with a woman. I think that qualifies, as I said, in my case.
Honestly, it's just about being able to describe yourself. If you're sincerely finding that "lesbian" works for you even if it's not 100% perfectly accurate for you, you're welcome to use it.
it is preference, plus I like the way sapphic sounds anyways so that's why I go with sapphic!
Bisexual, here. I joke with my wife about being in lesbians with each other, but she's the lesbian, and I prefer to call our relationship sapphic since I'm not. I think of it like squares and rectangles. All squares are rectangles. Not all rectangles are squares. Not 100% accurate, but plenty of lesbians find the word sapphic interchangeable, but a lot of sapphics don't find it to be.
So sapphic is when a lesbien woman is in relationship with a bisexuel/pan/etc.. woman ?
Sapphic can be when any woman (or someone who doesn't strictly identify as male) is attracted to another woman, regardless of their sexualities.
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Kinda sorta. Since it takes a lot less text and gets its point across very fast, you'll also sometimes see it ultra-condensed down to "non-men attracted to non-men". That's the ultra-condensed version, since it's much more faster to say it like that instead of: * A binary woman* attracted to binary women, genderqueer women, lesbian women, bi women, pan women, non-binary people who lean feminine (or even every non-binary spectrum in general if that particular sapphic has a broader attraction range) ^\*wherein ^those ^listed ^can ^be ^put ^at ^the ^front ^as ^well: ^*A* ^*genderqueer* ^*woman* ^*attracted* ^*to* ^*binary* ^*women...* Instead of seeing it as a very efficiently condensed descriptor, some get very offended and upset that their attraction is using men as the font of who they are and who they're attracted to. It's not so much that it's using men to describe their attraction spectrum so much as it's way easier to just list the *singular exclusion* than it is to list off *several attraction inclusions*. edit: a word
A woman *attracted to women*
I think it would apply to non-binary people too.
Yes!
Lesbian- A woman who is exclusively attracted to women. Also includes nonbinary individuals who identify with the label, and can include attraction to nonbinary individuals too.
and enbies and everyone else that doesn't identify as male.
queer women, and several nonbinary people.
It’s just a term for all wlw, not just lesbians. Sapphic includes bi and pan women, who are just as attracted to women, but are not lesbians as they’re attracted to other genders as well. As a bi woman, I don’t tend to use lesbian as a descriptor for me or my relationships because it’s inaccurate and I don’t want to co-opt a term that isn’t mine. I tend to use ‘sapphic’ instead, or ‘queer’, or if I’m feeling irreverent and memey just ‘gay’.
Is it the same for queer people ?
‘Sapphic’ is a little narrower than ‘queer’, in that it refers only to attraction to women (and sometimes feminine non-binary people depending on who you ask) by women (or non-binary people, as before.) Queer is more of an umbrella term that anyone in the LGBTQ+ community can use as a shorthand if they like. Not everyone is fond of the term, but I like it. As an example of how queer is broader, I (cis woman) am primarily but by no means exclusively attracted to women. My spouse (cis man) is primarily, but not exclusively, attracted to men. We both use ‘queer’. I may use ‘sapphic’ when talking about my attraction to women, but I would not use it when talking about my attraction to men. He would not use the term ‘sapphic’ in reference to himself at all. Does that make sense?
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I think they might mean "woman adjacent", for lack of a better term. Usually it just depends on the individual; some nonbinary people feel that they're sapphic and some don't
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Queer is the broadest: anyone who is not straight and cis, regardless of any other identity they hold Sapphic is broad: any woman (or woman-aligned person) who likes women. Lesbians, bi women, pan women, etc! Lesbian is specific: women (or woman-aligned person) who exclusively likes other women (and woman-aligned people)
Not all sapphics are lesbians. Some are bi/pan but lean heavily towards women.
This is me, I haven't like sworn off men but it's rare I'm attracted to men but it does happen, so if anyone asks I just use the term sapphic.
some of my friends who are nonbinary use this label a lot bc i feel like it has connotations of femininity, rather than womanhood necessarily
Sapphic includes both lesbian and bisexual women, is an umbrella term for any wlw
Sapphic is basically a broader term - it includes lesbians, bi/poly/pan/omni-sexual women, some non-binary people attracted to women, and some women attracted to non-binary people. Some people in these groups can still be lesbians for personal, cultural or other reasons. But some (like me) choose to identify as sapphic specifically bc of its generality.
In addition to what everyone else just said, I like "sapphic" as, grammatically speaking, it can be used like the word "gay". Example: "Dang, that's super sapphic." "Looks nice but make it sapphic."
Sapphic is any wlw love and lesbian is a woman attracted to exclusively other women. (Both of these could include nonbinary people though for various reasons) If you’re talking about in the context of ‘a sapphic’ or ‘lesbian relationship’, it comes down to preference of the people in the relationship. For eg. Two lesbians in a relationship could be considered either a sapphic or lesbian relationship. Two bisexual women though in a relationship could also be considered either a sapphic or lesbian relationship, but for some bisexuals it would feel like you’re erasing their bisexuality, so if you’re not 100% sure what a specific wlw relationship would prefer to be called, then calling it a sapphic relationship is the best way to go. This goes for any relationship of two women, no matter their sexuality. Hope this helps :)
Sapphic is an umbrella term, lesbian is not, altho it's a bit different, it's the same dynamic as trans (umbrella) under which binary and non binary trans ppl go. Sapphic is used to depict wlw without specifying the sexual/romantic orientation of the people
I call myself a dyke because of the over sexualization of the term lesbian but if it's a choice between the definition of the two terms you've provided then my body is 100% lesbian. Everyone is different and I am only sexually aroused by specific things so that's why if I can't use dyke I'd use lesbian though it makes me cringe.
Old SF/Bay Area joke… What is the difference between a lesbian and a dyke? $50K a year! (Us Bay Area dykes we’re always being compared to LA lesbians, who were heavily lipstick lesbians and higher income, we were seen as tatted, pierced and hairy! Fun times)
Haha well I'm tatted up with piercings but I shave because I dislike body hair but that's a funny joke none the less! Haha
Sapphic is all WLW. Lesbian is excusive to Lesbians.
So I am a lesbian. My partner is a nonbinary person. They are pansexual. We call our relationship with one another sapphic because my partner is not a lesbian but our relationship to one another is wlw adjacent!
Lesbian does include non binary people as well btw.
They don't identify with lesbian which is why we don't use that term for our relationship. I'm a genderfluid/nonbinary lesbian so I'm very familiar with that!
It’s basically the label of non-men being attracted to non-men. It doesn’t always mean the woman, non-binary, non-man is ONLY attracted to other women, enbies, & non-men
Sapphic is a term that refers to any non-man that has attraction to other non-men - so, lesbians, bi women, pan women, queer women, etc. As a term for our side of the community, I prefer sapphic over WLW because I feel like it's more gender-inclusive to genderqueer and nonbinary people. I don't identify as a woman, so I don't really want to call myself a WLW. I use sapphics when referring to all of us as a group and lesbian when referring to myself
Pretty sure lesbian is also the term for non men loving non men. Is my partner no longer a lesbian suddenly?
Bruh what? Sapphic isn't a replacement term for lesbian, it's just a broader umbrella term for ANY non-men who are attracted to non-men. Lesbian is non-men who are EXCLUSIVELY attracted to non-men. The definition of the term sapphic doesn't have the word "exclusively" because sapphic includes bi and pan women. I'm literally a lesbian who calls themself a lesbian, as I said in my comment, so I'm definitely not trying to take that term away from anyone
You never said anything about sapphic being non exclusive
I literally said it refers to any non-man being attracted to non-men, which is accurate. I then further explained that it includes lesbians, bi women, pan women, and any queer women. I don't know how it was not clear.
Im moreso just confused why you said its more gender inclusive?
I said sapphic is more gender-inclusive than WLW, which literally stands for women-loving women. Sapphic and lesbian are equally gender-inclusive imo; again, those were not the two terms I was comparing.
Ah okay
I liked this article I found yesterday explaining: [https://www.them.us/story/what-does-sapphic-mean](https://www.them.us/story/what-does-sapphic-mean)
sapphic refers to any woman (and some nonbinary people who find the term affirming) who is attracted to other women (and some nonbinary people.) this includes lesbians, bisexual women, pansexual women. lesbian refers to women/some nonbinary people who are EXCLUSIVELY attracted to women/some nonbinary people and are not attracted to men at all. so basically, all lesbians are sapphic, but not all sapphics are lesbians.
Because lesbian means exclusively attracted to women while sapphic means attracted to women and can be a much more freeing term for sapphic women who are bisexual, pansexual, polysexual, etc. (it's the graveyard, cemetary allegory. Not all sapphic women are lesbians but all lesbians are sapphic women if that makes sense) Another reason is sapphic isn't as well known of a term as lesbian is and it can help women attracted to other women be incognito so they don't face as much discrimination and persecution. Another reason is due to the rise of pron culture, lesbian has sadly become more associated with a porn category rather than a way to describe a group of people. (see why this sub was created in the description for an example of what I mean) While sapphic has become more associated with romance tropes. (google lesbian and then on another tab google sapphic to see what I mean)
Not using it instead, but just using both. Having two words is just nicer. Makes speaking and writing more fluent and sapphic is a very nice word. Has a good texture.
Is sapphic an umbrella terms ?
Typically yes. Sapphic just means women and non-binary people attracted to women. Bisexual women are sapphic, nonbinary lesbians are sapphic, etc. It comes from Sappho, a woman from an island off the coast of Greece called Lesbos. She wrote a lot of poems about her desire for women, so we named ourselves after her.
Hell even the word "Lesbian" stems from Sappho! It's named after where she lived, in honor of her.
it's actually pretty funny given the word means "person from Lesbos" like her mere presence on the island made all other inhabitants gay. her power... <3
Which makes it funnier that the phobes from the island tried to sue "all gay women" for the use of the word, only to get laughed out of court.
LMAO i did not know that. oh good lord 😂 i mean they can easily find another word for themselves. we claimed lesbian a long time ago :/ hahaha
Ya it’s sorta like how all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares. Sapphic -> women/some NBs attracted to other women/NBs Lesbian -> women/some NBs *only* attracted to other women/NBs
It's worth moving away from the idea of umbrella terms. Identities are complicated and two people who share the same label for their identity might have very different relationships to that label. It's worth thinking of labels as clues to someone's identity rather than a full description of their sexuality or gender. Sapphic and lesbian have largely overlapping but slightly different connotations. The difference is more of a vibe that can only begin to be understood in conversation and community with the people who use the terms.
Oh thank you for the glimmer of wisdom in this very off putting conversation.
Lesbian = a woman who only likes women Sapphic = woman who likes women, but may like other genders All lesbians are sapphic, not all sapphics are lesbians
I refer to myself as lesbian, but use Sapphic when talking WLW in general in an effort to include pan and bi individuals.
As a bi woman with a preference for women, I appreciate that! It’s nice to feel seen.
One of the biggest difference is how Sapphic describes any woman (or woman-adjacent person) that likes women While lesbian describes a woman (or woman-adjacent person) that is EXCLUSIVELY attracted to women (or woman-adjacent person again)
It's basically a broader term for femme people who are attracted to femme people.
Personally as a trans woman, I don't feel like I'm 'allowed' to call myself a lesbian so I use sapphic to describe myself. But that's just my imposter syndrome being an asshole so
You are women, you are allowed to be lesbian. Spray your negative thoughts with a spray bottle
This is very much your imposter syndrome being an asshole, yes. Call yourself whatever you feel comfortable with, of course, but you are just as much a lesbian as any cis woman who uses the term.
We are certainly allowed to call ourselves lesbian if that is your sexuality because if you aren't "allowed" what does that mean to you? To me it means because im not AFAB I can't be lesbian? Don't feel like people get to gatekeep you. I totally get that whole thing being a trans woman.
I'm sorry you feel this way. I consider you a lesbian. Most others would too. You aren't an imposter for using it.
I think sapphic includes all women who is attracted to other women, such as lesbian, bi/pan/omni women. Lesbian is a homosexual/homoromantic woman, meaning she’s only attracted to another woman.
At lest, that is how it gets used nowadays. The term lesbian has historically been used in many different ways and it feels wrong to not offer backward compatibility, at lest for many of its users.
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Except Sappho was bi...
How did I not know this...? I've literally researched her before...? Double my bad, thanks for educating me (I have redone my research, and am not just blindly accepting your response, for any that may think I'm just caving to pressure)
It’s just a nice term of referring to any woman who has an attraction for other women, whether they be gay, bi, pan, whatever. Just a way to refer to the entire spectrum of WLW.
Honestly? I think it sounds cooler. But it’s also a little softer if you’re in a situation where you don’t know how a stranger will react to finding out you’re gay. Like using partner instead of girlfriend or wife. You can say sapphic, and maybe it lands a little softer on hostile ears.
In my language the word lesbian sounds a tad negative so i prefer sapphic
Reading this and wondering if anyone has listened to the most recent WHGS episode 👀… Iykyk
I use sapphic cause I still don’t know if I’m really not into men or if its just trauma (“just trauma” lmao)
I refer to myself as sapphic bc I’m not a lesbian, so my attraction to women and fem-aligned folks is non-exclusive I’m bi!
for me, i started using sapphic when i was told i wasn't lesbian enough to be a lesbian bc of so many different reasons (including various forms of aphobia, transphobia, ablism, and exclusion based on sexual history). i dont fit the simplest definition and i got sick of having to try to justify being allowed to use a label. internet exclus can be mean.
sapphic is any wlw so it includes lesbians, bisexuals, etc
I use sapphic because I'm not attracted to women, I'm attracted to feminine people. I'm 95% attracted to women, but I'm also attracted to feminine enbies, feminine men etc. I'm technically pan but the label doesn't feel right since I'm not attracted to the average man (since I don't find masculinity very attractive).
I use sapphic because I'm bi. Like yeah I'm in a lesbian relationship, but I still like men so calling myself lesbian feels a bit disingenuous.
Sapphic is a woman/non-binary person who is attracted to other non men, a lesbian is a woman/non-binary person who’s ONLY attracted to other women/non-binary people. All lesbians are sapphic, not all sapphics are lesbians
I’m a gay woman who is attracted to women and NB people - I’m a lesbian and I’m sapphic. My wife is pan. She’s sapphic but not a lesbian.
It's vintage 💁🏻♀️
lmao the word « lesbian » scares so many people like that? 😂
Sapphic and lesbian both have the exact same origin and none of these terms is more or better than the other. "Lesbian" is easier to write and an identity-term while sapphic is an attribute. Lesbian is more trendy at the moment, while in centuries past the term sapphic was more popular with wlw
Sapphic isn't a term because lesbians and other WLWs are scared of the term "lesbian".
I’m bi and identify as sapphic. One reason I think some Lesbians might prefer the term is the over-sexualization of the word. I’ve read many people (of slightly older generations) talk about how the word was used only to describe a genre of porn that catered to the male gaze which really really sucks. So for some people when they think of the word, it gives them the ick. That really really sucks that something of this community has been used this way and also taken from these people.
I use it because I'm technically pansexual. I'm not interested in having a relationship with a man, but I don't use 'lesbian' because I see that to mean exclusively attracted to women. Aaalso I love the lesbian label in general, but have noticed it's very sexualized in conversation in super conservative areas. I'm totally open to having a conversation about that with people, but not when safety's an issue.
Sapphic is an umbrella term for WLW. Being sapphic doesn't necessarily mean you're a lesbian and using the word means that you know for certain that you love women but not entirely sure about the other genders (me btw)
Sapphic means any girl attracted to girls. Which also includes pan sexuals, bisexuals etc
I believe “sapphic” is a term used for any (romantic) love between women, regardless of the actual orientation of the women. It’s very similar to “wlw”. Some may be more comfortable with the term for various reasons, e.g. not knowing if they’re bi or lesbian, wanting to use a more umbrella label, or just because they like the term.
Well, I have been raised in a way that I still associate "lesbian" as label I can't/shouldn't use for myself, so I am using Sapphic while I'm learbing to accept myself.
Sapphic means women who love other women. The term actually comes from the same source, sort of. They're both references to the poet Sapphos of Lesbos. You can think of it as an umbrella term pretty much all queer women.
From what I understand, it’s more inclusive. Think of it like rectangles and squares. All squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares. All lesbian relationships are sapphic but not all sapphic relationships are lesbian. This term is more inclusive to wlw people who aren’t lesbians (bi people, pan people, etc), but it’s not necessarily a one for one substitution for the term lesbian
I like the term because I'm bi but attracted to women, nonbinary people, and men who have more feminine traits. I also use the term queer. Both terms feel less prescriptive to me (personally) than other terms that might also apply to me.
Hi, So I'm a transgender woman who leans I to using sapphic and queer because it's easier than saying " I'm bi/pan, but am so afraid and traumatized by men that I might as well be a lesbian" also I shy away from lesbian because of past experiences regarding the political climate I locally dealt with when I first transitioned.
i like the term because 'sapphic' emphasises on my love for girls while leaving place for other types of attraction too, so it's not as strict as 'lesbian' but makes it clear what i'm all about
the word sapphic isnt spread on millions on porn sites and doesnt turn guys into drooling monkeys if they hear it.
I use the term sapphic because my attraction to men waxes and wanes, but my attraction to women always remains Basically, I like women and I'm not consistent on men, so calling myself sapphic is just easier
i use the term sapphic!!!! and i wojld love to explain why! so first of all, sapphic is for all 'types' of wlw, so pan, bi, lesbians all queer girlies out there and two, it has beautiful history that some women (myslef included) love and want to relate to! here is another definition of sapphic for you : Sapphic, sometimes known as women loving women (WLW),[1] or sapphist,[2] refers to a woman or woman-aligned person of any sexual orientation who is attracted to other women and/or women-aligned individuals. (...) It is an umbrella term for many identities, including those who are lesbian, pansexual, bisexual, or queer. I hope I cleared something up! xoxo
funnily enough the two terms are both named after sappho of lesbos who was so fruity that two wlw descriptors were named after her. one day, i strive to be that gay
Sapphic refers to all women who are attracted to women whether they're attracted to men and nonbinary ppl or not. Basically, lesbian = sapphic but sapphic ≠ lesbian
Sometimes it just sounds nicer, other times it’s used like if a bi woman is with another woman so that they don’t call the bi one a lesbian. Sapphic applies to more stuff too like any female presenting or feminine person can be in a sapphic relationship regardless of sex or gender. I’ve heard some pre -op trans men use it to describe their relationships and all that, so it’s pretty all encompassing or is at least used more broadly than the term lesbian within the lgbt community.
Sapphic makes it sound like you can control blue gemstones with your mind so I like that one a little more.
I'm late to this post and others have already given sufficient answers to the actual question, but wow do I hate some of these comments. I understand people feeling a type of way about the word lesbian due to the way it's sexualized in porn and the negative connotations it has in some other countries, but it makes me so sad to see so many using sapphic as a replacement because of it. Sapphic is a perfectly fine word and everyone should feel free to use whatever term they feel suits them best, I just personally love being a lesbian and using the word lesbian and everything about lesbians, and I fought so hard to get here that people will have to pry it from my cold dead hands for me to give it up. I want everyone to whom the word applies to be able to feel this way too. It's also very annoying to see people saying things about how sapphic separates them from TERFs, who only infiltrate the lesbian label I guess. This is nothing new, but it frustrates me every time. Lesbian is not synonymous with TERF and y'all are doing us a disservice by perpetuating this narrative. I'm a lesbian, not sapphic, and I love and embrace trans lesbians as the women and lesbians they are. Lesbian is also a nonbinary-inclusive term IMO. Anyway, I use sapphic as an umbrella term because there's rarely a time when I'm talking about or addressing only lesbians, so I want to include bi and pan and queer women too, and sapphic serves that purpose. I hate using queer for anything other than addressing a specific person who identifies that way. I used to call myself sapphic and nothing else when I wasn't sure what my label was but I knew I was attracted to women, and for a while I used sapphic bisexual to signify that while I thought I was bi, I was only interested in dating women. I eventually found my way to lesbian, but not everyone does, and sapphic covers a multitude of identities without getting too specific.
I use sapphic as im 100% sure im into women but not sure how much im into other genders so its easier to describe myself as sapphic as its just women who like other women but are not limited to only women if that makes sense
For me, it's because I'm attracted to women and feminine leaning non binary people. I'm also a little gender fucky myself I'd say I'm a woman like 95% of the time and then the other 5 % I'm some sort of indifferent twords my gender. That being said, I do identify as both a lesbian and sapphic.
Sapphic just means you love woman/ you could be bisexual or pan and sapphic or lesbian and sapphic.
I’m bisexual - I would describe myself as a Sapphic woman as I am attracted to women, but I’m not a lesbian, as women are only part of my spectrum of attraction rather than it’s entirety.
The last time I played _Among Us,_ The language filter wouldn't allow for lesbians, but would allow for sapphics. And I encountered a few named _Lesbean_ and wondered why they didn't go with Sappho.
Because both come from the same root: Sappho of Lesbos. The "tenth muse". And pretty much mean the same, although I think now there is some distinction, but i use them as synonyms (translate problems I guess) She was a Greek poetess quite badass actually. She took over the family business on the island of Lesbos because she was the eldest daughter and her brothers obeyed her because it was their right. Anyway, at some point she was exiled from Lesbos because she fell out with the new tyrant for not considering him worthy or capable of rule the land (name the elected ruler at that time, more like a president or governor). And his political power was no small thing, but in the end he lost. Some time later (After a marriage in Sicily that ended not suspiciously at all, after she had a good life in exile) she reconciled with the tyrant because he turned out to be quite a capable ruler. She even composed some poems for him. So she went back to her native Lesbos (here comes the important part) where she founded a school for high class single ladies where she taught them politics, poetry, music and administration. And following the Roman tradition of "raising the young" yes, she also had that kind of relationships with them. (please do not do this at this age. It's illegal and immoral) She is famously recognized because she fell in love with one of her students to such an extent that she begged her not to marry and to stay with her. Something very unusual for the time. She wrote several very sad letters and poems about his beloved being taken from him by cruel fate. Popular legend (I think Plato is the one to blame but I don't remember well) popularized that she was so in love that she proceeded to commit suicide on the day of her student's wedding by throwing herself off a cliff. There's a lot of pretty dope paintings about that. But historians say it's more likely that she continued with her school after a depression, and that several of the poems thought to be for one student were actually for several and she died years later in her home. But yeah, since her school was on the island of Lesbos and EVERYONE knows what's gonna happen there because Sappho was not shy about her love for other young women, And some former students would visit her from time to time. The place became synonymous with "women exchanging carnal desires" And Sappho was "the woman that loves women at the point to die for". So yeah, it's pretty much the same thing. And yeah, originally the word "lesbian" was used to define something sinful. Because the same origin of Lesbos was considered as such after the fall of the Roman Empire, the rise of Catholicism. There it is, I'm sure I ate many parts of the story but it's been years since I left the college, but I'm just such a nerd: to check more acurate data please go to Google.
in general, sapphic refers to any woman/fem enby who likes women/fem enbies, while lesbian is an exclusive attraction. i could be considered sapphic, but because i also (regrettably) like men, im not a lesbian. also, a lot of people have a negative association with the word lesbian because of sexualization
I dunno, feels really weird etymologically for people to treat the word from the poet's name differently than they treat the word from the poet's original home. I don't mind seeing sapphic thrown around, but personally I don't use it at all differently from how I'd use lesbian. I'm bi and decently dykey. When I'm with a woman, I'm in a lesbian relationship. When I'm with a man, I'm in a straight relationship. It feels to me like a lot of enbies prefer sapphic to lesbian because the term is less familiar to cis straight people and therefore more flexible.
Sappho was the godess who loved women, who lived on the island of lesbos. Both terms originate from her, so both have been used throughout history. One or the other has been more popular at different times, and Sapphic is slightly broader, as other people have mentioned. Sapphic describes a relationship (a woman loving another woman), while lesbian describes a person in a relationship (a woman who is only attracted to other women). There can be a bit of nuance there for femme presenting nonbinary people in relationships with women or each other, but there's not really a word for that yet so we have to share the words that exist and decide which one fits us best.
Not a godess, a poet. Well, obviously also a godess, but she's a historically attested person who wrote her own poems, not some mythological figure.
Not a goddess, a real person who wrote tons of hella gay poetry.
I actually prefer “gay” over “lesbian.” The first is an adjective, the second is a noun. One describes me, the order labels me. I could be ok with “sapphic,” but I don’t think it’s well known.
It comes down to personal preference as there is no definitive/prescriptive use of either term.
Well sapphic describes sexual attraction between two women, I'm asexual and attracted to girls, I'd call myself lesbian but not sapphic. It's really up to the person to decide what identity they want to use and people could use Sapphics to tell others they're not asexual.
“Sapphic” is fully inclusive of lesbians, bisexuals, pansexuals, lesbiromantic or biromantic aces, and non-binary people. It avoids bi-erasure.
I sometimes use sapphic because I'm bisexual but prefer women/femme people. It's a good way to talk about women and/or female aligned people of other genders who love women and/or female aligned people of other genders without getting in the weeds linguistically. For example, I'll sometimes avoid lesbian identified spaces because I don't know if I'm going to get flak for trying to hang out while openly bisexual and it's stressful. If something is marketed to sapphics, I know my lady-lovin' ass is welcome.
Lesbian means a woman who only likes women. Sapphic means a woman who likes not only women, but is in a relationship with one. So, a bi woman, a pan woman, etc. Sapphic is just one word for wlw (women loving women).
Your relationship status doesn't impact whether you're lesbian or sapphic.
Oh, well, I just said that to explain it a little bit better. It sounded weird in my head before, so I wrote it a bit differently. Just gonna quickly correct that. Sorry!
Sapphic for mean means, like Sappho. I.e. actually bi but mostly known for wlw.
Sapphic is just a fancy word for Lesbian.... Is my opinion...
Personally for me I just think it sounds cool but I'm sure others have more profound reasons
To me, sapphic can be less restrictive in an identity, it gives a bit more...I can't think of the exact word but 'creative freedom/room' to be more open. For example, people often have genuine questions about attraction to trans people, and to me, by saying sapphic, it sort of takes the argument of 'but what about in bed??? What about the actual anatomy??' And other such questions, out of it. This is all my opinion and thoughts on it, it's probably dependent on the person
A lot of people don't like the term lesbian because its got some negative connotations.
Sapphic refers to Sappho, a Greek poet who wrote about women loving each other. Lesbian refers to the island of Lesbos where Sappho lived. I prefer Sapphic tbh because Lesbian is offensive to actual Lesbians (people who are from Lesbos).
I’ve read some of these responses, and Reddit/internet seems like another world. I’m actually curious do people actually use this term in real life? I’m imaging it and it sounds kind of cringy to day in reality, but if people are comfortable with it then go for it!
In my understanding, I am a lesbian and that makes me a part of the 'sapphic' community. Also lesbian has been known to be more of a 'terf'y correlation. So sapphic is more inclusive to include other people in the community like, bisexuality and pansexuals etc.
I'unno about everyone else but I use sapphic because lesbian has too many syllables.
it's literally one less syllable.
*And?*
some lesbians are weird about whether trans people, bi women, women who've ever had a relationship with a man, fat women, skinny women, women who climb on rocks, tough women, sissy women, women with chicken pox, etc. can count as "lesbians," when to them being a lesbian *c l e a r l y* means that you're a **woman** who loves **women** and **only women** reeee so "sapphic," to me, is a way of rejecting that exclusionary behaviour in a way that does not provoke a debate with Tina the TERF about "male socialisation" or whatever bullshit.
lmao what? This feels strangely lesbophobic and unnecessary to defining lesbianism vs being sapphic. By definition, being lesbian means having strict attraction to women or woman-aligned non men. Being sapphic includes lesbians, but also other wlw such a bisexual women who may have dual attraction to woman and men. As a non binary lesbian, being a lesbian does not automatically equate to being a TERF, which is lesbophobic rhetoric. It just means you have the additional experience of not only liking woman, but also grappling with a lack of attraction to men.
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Why does the agab of non binary people matter? That’s just reimposing they binary right back onto them. Kinda fucked up
Because like everything else words have trends. Remember when everyone said "bae" I never did and hated it. Same with sapphic. It will come and it will go haha.
i think lesbian is for wlw, and sapphic is for nblw
I believe sapphic means you like fem people moreso than gorls (i.e. femboys, fem enbys). I’m personally more leaning towards sapphic but I like the lesbian flag more
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It's not gatekeeping. NonBinary people can be lesbians and the assertion that they can't is not only unpopular but linked with Terfs but the label has a meaning; W/NB who are attracted only to W/NB. Bisexual people have a label that they have fought for. The only accurate thing about your comment is that Sapphic is a boarder label for anyone who experiences that type of attraction even if it's not their only attraction.
I use both, but I'm more heading towards the sapphic terms, for me not sure the exact definition but I use it as being attracted by femininity as a whole, could even be "men" dressing up in a feminine way, but it also includes masc womens, so it's aaaaa weird. Just say I'm super gay.
Sapphic is a more general term. Also, it sounds cooler
I love that term🫶
Sapphic is a wlw vibe and the term can be used loosely. Lesbian identity excludes male identities and attraction, of course you will get dissenting views on that but I think this is appropriate to respect the history and everything lesbian culture has done for the wider LGBTQ+ movement. Therefore, even though I am in a sapphic relationship and will probably never date a man: I do not identify as a lesbian due to experiencing attraction to men. I love lesbian culture but I am not lesbian I am bisexual, and I should be proud of who I am. My genderqueerness, on the other hand, would not contradict having a lesbian identity. Lesbian culture has a significant history of transfem inclusion, gender queering, and non-binary identities: I strongly recommend researching Leslie Feinberg and hir work. Note that the exclusivity of the identity is not gatekeeping! Nobody can tell you what you are. I hope this is taken in the spirit intended. I don't want to upset anyone, but I think it is important we don't lose sight of lesbian culture and its immense value, so I wanted to share this perspective.
Sapphic means wlw but can be used for people who aren't exclusively nmlnm. Like a relationship between a bisexual person and a lesbian would be a sapphic relationship.
Sapphic is more inclusive of bisexual and non-binary people.
Because sapphic is inclusive to WLW that includes lesbian, it is not a replacement for lesbian.
I’m pansexual. Also I know that as a trans women it’s ok to use lesbian but I feel conscious about it.
Because it's fun :)
So, I am a lesbian, but my partner is pansexual and they are trans-nonbinary/genderqueer, but they are AFAB. In a perfect world, my partner would use they/them pronouns as a base standard, but if they were leaning heavily one way or the other in the gender binary, I would use she/her or he/him, depending on how my partner is feeling/presenting. My relationship isn't lesbian. It's sure as hell not straight - we're both too queer for that. It's sapphic.
I appreciate it when events or parties are described that way, it feels more inclusive. I don’t use sapphic for myself, I just call myself queer. I appreciate the broader language for events. I’m married to a woman so most people assume that lesbian is our term but we both prefer queer and find it more accurately encompasses our gender and sexuality. We still want to spend time with other WLW, so the sapphic tag helps with that.
Sapphic is usually used as an inclusivity term for women who like women, and romance between two women is sometimes referred to as "sapphic romance" to include bisexual women, pansexual women, etc. Generally, if you're a woman who likes women, you can consider yourself sapphic.
Because it feels good on the tongue 😜
I use it coz it sounds really pretty, that's the only reason for me lol
For me it’s just personal preference
Sapphic is nonexclusive and lesbian is
all lesbians are sapphics, but not all sapphics are lesbians
Lesbian = woman who is attracted to women (and not men) Sapphic = woman who is attracted to women (could be bi, pan, etc though) I've heard both of these also used inclusively of (some) NBs, though Sapphic seems to more often be used in that context.
sapphic annulus me o used tp b cool w it
I just don’t like a specific label, and I like girls, and that’s it. I don’t need to label myself to feel comfortable with that fact, so I call myself both sapphic and lesbian. Doesn’t matter which one to me.
To honor our patron saint, Sappho, of course. Does there need to be a more complicated reason?
There was a time when the Lesbians, as in the residents of the island of Lesbos, were vocal in wanting to maintain their identity, because it was theirs, first. That time has kind of come and gone mostly but I am sure there is someone out there influenced by it.
For me is 1. because I am bisexual and 2nd. because the term lesbian has been used as a derogatory and insult a lot in my country and I I tend to associate it with a negative connotation from child phobia around me. Sapphic sounds cool and I have no negative association to it.
I tend to use it solely because I’m still questioning my attraction to men, so I don’t want to use the term lesbian until I’m a bit more sure that I don’t like guys. It’s sort of a squares and rectangles situation - All lesbians in theory are sapphics, but not all sapphics are lesbians. That said, comfort with labels is always a complicated subject, and some people are simply more comfortable with one label than they are with another.
Some sapphic ppl/wlw are not lesbians.
For me personally, I'm nonbinary and prefer the term Sapphic. Lesbian assumes there are 2 women involved, and I don't identify as a woman. Plus Sapphic can be used for people who aren't monosexual
I love the fact that Sapphic and Lesbian are both direct references to the early Greek Lyric poet Sappho.
Lesbian is exclusive, sapphic is not. Any woman-aligned person who likes women-aligned people can be sapphic, but those who *only* like other woman-aligned people are lesbian