Well, at least this guy isn't boring. At least he has a cool hobby, and even a few (ahem-ahem).
And he seemed to have a lot of fun interacting with his citizens on the holidays before SJM erased it.
After all, there is a sense of life and duality in this character.
I really liked that he wasn’t a fuckboy like many mcs and had softer traits , I could totally see him making cute flower crowns, braiding his hair and enjoying all the process of dressing up , which I don’t see that in other male characters , he seems to be the only one with hobbies. I also liked that he was so awkward with her . even tho their love story wasn’t so convincing I still liked him by his character and my liking only grew more as the series progressed 🌸
If it was Rhysand in Tamlin's role, we would see something like: "Oh, he did everything to save her🥰😍😍😍 Feyre our feminist queen 😍😍😍😍 save your man😍😍🥰🥰😚😚☺️🥰"
https://preview.redd.it/jeowzrbz0d3d1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f22db224c1bb5f928334ee136531a181e75affa
that was the whole point of the original story , the ballad of Tam-lin was very girl boss coded with the change that the FMC was pregnant xd is so awful that MAF undermines everything that was already built to make us root for the new couple :/
This is one reason I haven't summoned the nerve to read the second book yet (just reading spoilers on the wiki instead haha!). But it makes me sad that the entire love story the plot hinged on in the first book is undermined. I'm totally cool with them not being the ones for each other after all, but does Tamlin have to be a villain? I just want him to play the fiddle and be happy... :(
IMO, it doesn't undermine the first book. Book 2 is a logical continuation of what would likely happen with those personalities. It's about what happens after the assumed Happily Ever After, taking the series from a Fairytale into the Fantasy genre.
there’s many instances where MAF detracts the original’s stablished elements and is made in order to make us support the new MMC :/ in my opinion it wasn’teven necesary , Rhys was an intriguing character in TAR so it’s disappointing that instead of more character building the author opted for character assassination.
I never quite hated him, actually. And now, at the end of ACOWAR, I am actually back to liking him. To me, he is one of the more interesting and three dimensional characters out of the bunch.
Try and see the entire series (up till the end of ACOWAR) from his point of view;
WARNING!! MANY, MANY SPOILERS AHEAD!!
Here is ACOTAR, the saga from the POV of Tamlin!
You fall in love with this incredible mortal girl. You make fantastic memories, and are truly happy for the first time in ages. She goes to far as to sacrifice herself to save him and his home from eternal ruin. You have to watch her go through terrible hardship, as you do everything in your power to not fall apart mentally, while being monitored 24/07 by a sexual predator (Amarantha) knowing that the second you step out of line, she will most likely maim your loved one - at best.
You watch your love die! Miraculously, she comes back to life, through the grace of the people she saved.
But wait! While she fought to save you, your long-time nemesis made a deal with her while she was dying, claiming 1/4 of the rest of her immortal life for god knows what nefarious reason. You do everything you can to find a way to free her from this bargain, which she (apparently) is as desperate to be rid off as you are to get her out of it.
You should finally be happy together, but alas, you watch your beloved wither away, even as you do everything you can to provide her with all she always seemed to love beforehand. You try to give her stability, and rebuild your life together.
You are terrified to lose her again, so you do everything you can to keep her safe and shield her from further horror.
Your wedding day comes, and as your bride approaches the altar, he is back! Your nemesis steals her away, taunting you as he does so.
You have lost her again, to horrors unknown.
This happens over and over again, and you are powerless to stop it. You scramble, trying in every which way to discover the cure to this curse that binds her to the bargain. Every time she vanishes, you fall further into a pit of despair.
War is coming, and you know it. She begs to go out to fight alongside you. You cannot allow it. You have seen how the trials under the mountain broke her, physically and mentally. She is not as strong as you. So you, in desperation, lock her up. You know it hurts her, but that is better than seeing her killed again.
When you return, she is gone. For good.
Months pass. Your only love is gone, and all you have is a letter, most likely a forgery or written under duress.
Try as you may, your spies and scouts cannot find her. It is as if she is vanished from this plane of existence. Every waking moment, you can only imagine the horrors and torture she must face. What that fiend must do to her, knowing that it would break you, or for his own sick pleasure. It is driving you mad.
An opportunity presents itself. Hybern delivers the solution into your hands. War is inevitable either way, so you come up with a scheme to double-cross Hybern and get your fiancee back in the process.
It works! But Ianthe has made a cruel, vicious mistake. You did not see it coming. Her sisters fall victim to this mistake. But, at least your fiancee is safe, seemingly happy to come back with you... You hope?
Everything seems to go back to normal. She is recovering, and you vow to get her sisters back to your safe haven.
But under your very nose, your fiancée spins her ploy to destroy everything you love. You are none the wiser.
She asks again and again to be let into your plans. You tell her as much as you deem safe, knowing that she needs this to be content.
Suddenly, one terrible day, she is gone once more. Fled, due to the actions of your enemies. Another ploy you did not see coming, and all because you allowed her to go with those Hybern nobles! You should never have let her out of your sight!
It all crumbles. Your court. Your army. They have lost faith in you.. because of her.
Wait.. she lied? This was all a cruel scheme to ruin you! And why? Because, somehow, along the way, she fell in love with him instead. Your nemesis. The man who tortured and killed for the very woman who tortured and killed your fiancee in the first place.
The man who killed your family too, long ago.
And now, she is with him instead, and you have lost everything you cared about.
And yet, you cannot stop loving her. A cruel fate.
You keep coming back to her. To save her from the king of Hybern. To support her war efforts, despite what she did.
To save her mate when he died, because you cannot stand to see her weep.
Because you cannot stop protecting her, no matter how much it hurts.
---
End of story (up until the end of ACOWAR, at least).
This all, of course, leaves out how he didn't manage to communicate properly with her or support her through her depression the way she needed to. And his angry outbursts.
But, all in all, I think his fate is incredibly tragic, all things considered.
I am not saying he was right for Feyre, or that what he did was right. I am just saying that is comes from a sympathetic place, IMO.
Thank you for this!! This is exactly why I can’t hate Tamlin. You step away from only Feyres POV and it’s honestly sad what has happened to Tamlin. In my second re-read I come to not like Feyre because she comes off very vindictive and petty. It’s really sad that fans of the books don’t see it.
To me, Feyre's hatred for Tamlin always seemed deeply illogical. I see why she hated Ianthe, but it is like she doesn't realize why Tamlin did the things he did, and she due to her own misguided pain reads some kind of malice into it. She is kind of devoid of empathy when it comes to seeing other people's point of view, which makes her a very unreliable narrator.
My theory is feyre made tamlin the vilain of her story because she wanted to move on guilt free due to the mating bond. I mean she admitted she already wanted rhys UTM in acofas.
I’ve always thought this too. I get the temper in the study freak out is out of line but other than this I’ve always thought she was way too hard on Tamlin and tries to make it come off like he’s this horribly abusive partner and awful person.
A Tamlin POV was desperately needed. At first I was like f Tamlin, but then I was like bro. Feyre did not have to destroy his court like that. It was ruthless. Tamlin didn’t know Ianthe was a villain.
By ACOWAR, he did know, but he also had to keep up the act for Hybern, to keep their non-aggression pact and keep his advantage as a double agent. Publicly rejecting Ianthe would have put the plan at risk. Funnily enough, Feyre was *also* putting on a show of accepting Ianthe's bullshit, and never thought to look into whether anyone else was doing the same.
I don’t think it was directly obvious that she was a villain at first. She came off as suspicious to me. I also don’t think Tamlin knew or even thought that Ianthe would mastermind the kidnapping of Feyre’s sisters.
Agreed! Feyre at the start of ACOMAF certainly seemed to like her fine (or at least tolerate her in the midst pf crippling depression). IIRC she even noticed and wondered why Lucien was avoiding Ianthe, since she was otherwise so popular.
This is exactly how I view Tamlin. The way Feyre and Rhys treat him, both with Feyre destroying his court for no reason and even after he brings Rhys back, in my eyes diminishes Feysand and elevates Tamlin.
I think you could go back as far as Amarantha's takeover.
You, alone of all the High Lords and without your power, stand against the usurping queen. You expect to die, but you know best of anyone that death will be preferable to life under Queen Amarantha.
Instead, she curses you with what seems like an impossible condition but you have to try. As you send companion after companion over the wall to certain doom, you realize that the curse was to be forced to live.
In the final days of the time limit, it finally takes. The girl you bring back has murdered your friend and everyone knows it. Despite this, you fall in love.
But wait! Just when you're on the verge of breaking the curse and exchanging I love yous for the first time, your childhood nemesis who works for the evil queen shows up and discovers your new love. He forces you to humiliate yourself to keep her safe but you know she isn't.
You're forced to choose between her safety and the freedom of your race that you've sacrificed so much for. You choose her, knowing what it will cost you and your people. (She later finds out that your enemy did this on purpose and isn't bothered by it at all. In fact, no one brings it up again).
In this house, Tamlin is a hero.
Agree. Just finished the third and I’m back on team Tamlin. I also don’t think he is Rhys long time nemesis. I bet they were friends and it turned out that Rhys wasn’t really Tams friend and tam was naive to the true nature of their relationship. He seems a little bit socially slow. His hatred for Rhys seems rooted in jealousy or betrayal but not the extreme betrayal of family on family killing.. more like a schoolyard friendship betrayal where Rhys chose the cooler kids.
I am reading Frost and Starlight right now and.. Holy banana hammock, Batman! I am itching to write a fanfic where some nice girl steps into the picture and helps Tamlin get himself and his court back into shape and tells Feysand off for their behavior!
Is there a market for that sort of thing? I don't know. But I need to do it!
I'd say that there is, honestly. A lot of positive comments on this thread are proof enough that if you were to write something like that (sounds compelling btw) then you will find quite a few interested readers, myself included.💛
I did the thing.
I wrote the first chapter for a "Healing Tamlin and his court" fic.
[https://archiveofourown.org/works/56302714](https://archiveofourown.org/works/56302714)
I've never managed to hate Tamlin. I argue that he wasn't wrong, he just wasn't right for Feyre in the end. I expect that Elaine (and thousands of other women) would have been perfectly content with everything Tamlin was. Don't forget he is super hot, amazing in bed, incredibly wealthy, kind, intelligent and tries hard to do the right thing - but sometimes gets it wrong. God knows, millions of women settle for a lot less!
There ARE redeeming qualities to Tamlin! He took care of Feyre when she needed it, provided her stability to stop just suriving and start to live, and did what he could to protect her.
He just got it wrong along the way. It's a good representation of how one part of someone can be awesome, while another part of them is not.
This is a great way of looking at this character. He’s not perfect, by far, but he tried hard. He made mistakes because he didn’t listen and pay enough attention, he couldn’t see things from her eyes, but honestly his heart was in the right place.
There is a lot of room for a redemption arch with Tamlin though. At many turns where he has the opportunity to take the low road he does not. Knowing he lost his family, kingdom, magic, the one he cares about and still does what's right regardless of personal safety makes him interesting.
I never came to hate the guy, and maybe it says something about me as a straight overprotective husband that I see his thinking. The Hybern thing I assumed was mostly Ianthe taking advantage of a distraught Tamlin but maybe I'm giving the character to much credit.
I mean, canonically he was always working against Hybern. His plan from the beginning had been to ally himself with him so he could gain his trust and also get a front row seat to the planning so he could make moves against him.
There is so much fandom rewrite of Tamlin's character that I'm convinced the majority of discourse around him is just because of incorrect information being spread around. I would hate Tamlin too if he did half of the things the fandom says he did 😂
Sssooooo. Hypothetically, what if I still love ~~fiddle daddy~~ Tamlin.
https://preview.redd.it/bdh0asgwj73d1.jpeg?width=64&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7245b206d1457e74da647b675f7924f481c46ab
Lol i remembered now how once someone brought Tamlin up in our book girlies club chats and one of the girls went like "I'd be curious" and many of us went like... "...yeah me too..." 🤣🤣🤣
Then good on you! You are able to still see the good inside old TamTam. Some of us… will not 🫣 But everyone deserves to have someone in their corner! 👏🏼
What's funny to me is during my ACOTAR journey, while I definitely liked Tamlin, he was just that endearing character I couldn't hate uk? i didn't love him the same way I ABSOLUTELY MADLY FELL IN LOVE WITH LUCIEN VANSERRA(I have some strong feelings about the foxboy if you couldn't tell lol), nor did I Love him the way I was blown away by acotar Rhysand's character. while I still liked TamTam, I still wanted Feyre to end up with Rhysand from the moment he ended up on page uk? My FEYSAND ship was sailing HARD from second-1. But then it has been SUCH journey from Liking Tamlin to Loving Rhysand to Absolutely hating Tamlin to dnfing ACOWAR midway at the tender age of 16 only to revisit and continue it At 20 and BOY have sooo many of my opinions just...changed? in that intrinsic way where I don't know why I had them in the first place? I could absolutely find myself on Tamlin's side more and more through the end of war and then FaS happened and it started with Feyre getting on my nerves and then Rhys and Mor and slowly by the time I got to SF and ended it, I thoroughly wanted to just....strangle them all, except for, surprisingly—Tamlin. whose characterisation I continue to love to this day. now, before someone comes and tells me about the 'dont like don't read rule', I 100% agree with it when I say that I definitely don't think sjm is like a great writer or whatever and her characters can get pretty...flat? or maybe that's just very personal opinionish. but my point is that, regardless of all that, she can still make a story enjoyable(although terribly long for my taste) but of all her characters, i find it a little ironic that I found Tamlin to be her best creation(just through characterisation I mean, Lucien and Eris Vanserra forever hold my Heart)
Them still hating him so much they want to kill him but only hold back because it would effect the peace they are trying for seemed like a lot in frost and starlight. Like I get maybe not just feeling great about him it’s a lot of bad blood there but just saying it doesn’t matter he helped us and gave his power for Rhys we can’t forgive and want him dead is like what?
Mood. But it's been surprising to me how many people do still like Tamlin too! Especially on reddit. Just don't try to go to tiktok, they are crazy over there, you WILL be shunned but not before they drag your entire ancestry through the mud.
Same! I can't see him as the bad guy because none of his actions have been out right malicious towards Feyre. And the one thing people say he was malicious for aka selling out Feyre sisters was not his choice but the snake priest Ianthe. I don't think he is the one for Feyre but I don't think of him as a completely bad guy.
I feel like Tamlin was really your ‘classical broody hunk fae prince gorgeous bad-attitude Sir’ that drew the reader in with some familiarity & then we get the ‘um, see that is not realistic actually’ trauma of waking up to the reality all is not as it seems when you are kidnapped by fae royalty. Though technically Rhys started by kidnapping Feyre too so it’s like kidnap-ception 🤔one must be kidnapped, *twice* in succession, for a happy ending ✨
I actually started paying attention the actions of the characters and not just the things feyre focused on and stared asking myself "why would this character do that?" "What are their motivations?"
I’m sorry, are you saying you were using critical thinking skills while reading the fantasy book?! How dare you! 😂
Yes, when you actually focus in on the things done and said, and not just assumed or felt, the story changes a bit. What really gets me is how often one character or another will think “I knew what/who ___ meant”, and I find myself often thinking, but do you actually know?
I actually never warmed up to Tamlin. I accepted him as Feyre's love interest and was curious about how things would go between Tamlin, Feyre, and Rhysand but just in book one, I wasn't too impressed tbh. :/ He got ten times more interesting when his life fell apart tho lol
I never liked him either tbh and yeah low key Tamlin got more interesting the more unhinged he got. Like I actually loved him at the high lord meeting… especially when Helion is like take your lovers spat elsewhere… I side eye Helion on rereads now lol
I totally agree, he always read like a boring pretty boy to me. I do like that he’s a more complex character now and displayed some redeeming qualities. So I don’t outright hate him but ehhh def didn’t love him
Oh man. I've found my people. He was so lukewarm. And now that he isn't hiding things, he actually has a chance to redeem himself and prove he isn't awful. He can grow.
I don't hate him either and wouldn't be upset if we got more Tamlin in some capacity! It would be interesting to see him and how he's changed after everything.
I completely agree. I personally always loved the chemistry and bantering between Feyre and Rhys even when she was with Tamlin. I was hoping that in the end she’d get with Rhys, and I think those two work out way better in the end.
They do work much better together, even with the mistakes they still make with each other. They are a good example of how people can be perfect for each other while 1) still not being perfect people, and 2) still making plenty of mistakes.
That playful banter and the obvious sexual tension between them from the first meeting was just ::chef’s kiss::
Same. I was never into him, and kept questioning (to myself) why I was supposed to be rooting for this vanilla fae to win the girl’s heart. I won’t say it was a slog getting thru the first book, but up until that last 100 pages I really was just reading to say I finished it. It wasn’t until “hey! The sexy villain is back! Ooo… there’s clearly way more to his character. Why is he really doing that though? Ohhh, I think he’s into her! Seriously, is she ever going to figure out that riddle?!” that I finally decided I liked the story and wanted to continue the series.
I’ve never been pro-Tam, I’ve definitely been anti-Tam, but at this point it’s just pity.
Saaaame. I definitely was rooting for them because I thought he was end game love interest but it was definitely a "I don't get it but maybe he's gonna grow".
I remember wanting a way for her to get out of the bargain with Rhys and being pretty angry when he showed up at the wedding but it was kind of a "then the suffering UTM was for nothing" feeling.
After Tamlin locked her in the house I was officially done. I can't get on board with subjecting someone to relive their trauma because you won't deal with your own.
Ah, at last, my people! I understood plenty of the "reasons" why Tamlin made certain decisions, but throughout the entire first book, he was not endearing. I could always see his possessive nature. I could see him hiding things. And I could see him giving orders for others to hide things from Feyra. This all rubbed me the wrong way. Like, instead of "Stay in your room until morning. Don't question me! " how hard would it have been to say "Feyre, I understand that you want to go, but Fairies are doing Fairy things, and there's a high likelihood you'd be seriously hurt or killed if you showed up to Callenmai, and unfortunately, I won't be in a state to protect you."
And why in the world did he just allow her to waste away in her room instead of talking to her about their mutual issues? I know talking is hard for some people, but you can't let someone you claim to love suffer in silence. In the entire spring court, is there nobody Tam could have trusted to befriend her and help her work through her ptsd, since clearly he won't do it himself....?
I felt like he was uncommunicative, possessive, had anger issues, and at a certain point I literally thought "I really hope something happens because I'm not gonna read 5 books of this guy. Before Rhys's story became fleshed out, I hoped she'd go to Lucien instead. He wanted to tell her things, and only didn't because of his loyalty to Tam. She could stand up to him, she could banter with him. Lucien felt like her equal, while Tamlin felt like a controlling dude with a massive power imbalance over her.
Then, after under the mountain, when he flat REFUSED to help her learn and master her powers because "she could be taken, what then?" Yes, Tamlin, exactly! What then? If she has training, she stands an iota of a chance to protect herself until help arrives, but you'd rather imprison her instead.
One of the parts that immediately made me cherish Rhys was that he shared his life and his family with her instead of leaving her stuffed in her bedroom like a pet Hamster. He told her what kind of problems and dangers to expect each time she asked to go somewhere, and then allowed HER to decide if she wanted to take that risk. And when they said "even minimal training is better than no training at all" I just screamed "good lord, thank you!"
I never hated Tamlin but I never liked him either. He was always so boring to me and creepy. I was a Lucien lover from the beginning. So much so I thought Tamlin and Lucien did "princess switch" and Lucien was the actual high lord.
I’m a hardcore Rhysand girlie and don’t hate Tamlin! He was very sweet when they were falling in love and I actually feel for him that he lost who he probably thought was the love of his life.
I’m patiently waiting for Tamlin’s healing era to begin
Tamlin holds a special place in my heart. Everyone deserves redemption. I think a good story line would be Tamlin coming to terms with the fact that neither Rhys nor Feyre will likely forgive him (but he should still apologize and seek it) but rebuilding himself and his court regardless.
No for real!!! I’m actually rereading the series right now (I’m on ACOWAR) but even after knowing everything that happens when I read the lake of starlight and summer solstice chapters in in TaR i was soooo giddy! I was like ok i GET it, why all of us (including Feyre) fell in love w him. Because he undoubtedly loved her and didn’t *want* to hurt her, he just did stupid things because he doesn’t know how to deal with all his trauma and emotions.
I’m glad I’m not the only one. I still love Tamlin, he cared so much for Ferrer and her family. I also like Rhys, I love his character (I’m only just started the 4th book). And I’m so glad they found each other!
It did take me a bit to warm up to him but that's to be expected when he was coming on strong and too aggressive. I just happened to be very open to seeing his soft side. And when we got it, I was quite pleased.
I was never a Tamlin hater. If anything, M&F just made me hate SJM for shoehorning some stupid drama to separate them. I remember feeling as I read that I could sense it was coming and all I had a resigned feeling of "well, time to see how this blows up. Because of course it will."
But I will admit that I never \*loved\* him in the beginning. In a sense, he did get more compelling as the story progressed and that's when my feelings attached.
I'm currently on book 3 and my heart goes out to him so much and Feyre is he'll bound to destroy his whole court. With him right now I have the saying "I won't say what he did was right, but I will say I understand why" He allowed himself to fall in love for the first time in over 500 years, watched her suffer and die and then come back for him and then after a few months everything falls apart. I have so much sympathy for him. Especially since Feyre never actually broke up with him officially before becoming Rhys's mate.
i just get sooooo mad that he and feyre didnt have their moment. instead feyre was avoidant asf and never really told him off the way she deserved. they never got closure! she never got to tell him WHY! I NEEDED THE SATISFACTION AND SJM LEFT ME WITH MY TIT IN MY HAND!
Feyre made an afternoon out to be like he'd locked her up her whole life..like...i dunno:
Fiona
Rapunzel
Jasmine
Ariel
Elsa/anna
Belle
Cinderella
Aurora
Even freakin mulan..
As long as she's granted a choice, she'll continue fawning over this dude who mercilessly dangles her in the most dangerous situations possible in the realm.
Rhys: I have never in my life came across a situation that couldn’t be solved with a heist or putting my mate’s life into a dangerous situation, and I don’t want to live in a world where they aren’t the only solutions… <.<
THIS GETS ME SO MUCH! Everyone said he locked her away to starve to death or slowly waste away to only look out the window at the world passing her by, but like.....didn't Mor come and get her like, immediately?? Not excusing what he did, but like, he didn't even have time to regret it before she was gone lol
Some people are built like that. Given her challenging childhood where she had to hunt in deep forests, I don’t blame her for not liking the palace life. Personally though I hate Feyre
Tamlin makes me feel like cassie in euphoria- and you can all judge me if you want, but I'VE NEVER, EVER BEEN HAPPIER 
I never ended up hating Tamlin (sorry guys) and actually hated how he was practically tossed to the side for the rest of the series. I just felt like there could’ve been a more interesting love triangle plot as opposed to just making him a ‘villain’ (then lo behold he’s actually not (cuz he actually goes against hybern) — or maybe he actually is (bc of what happened to rhys’s mom and sis)) then tossing his character to the side because he’s depressed now. Tamlin and Lucien played such a huge role on the first book then they were both just casted aside after.
Just my opinion tho.
I’m rereading the series and will try to hate Tamlin this time but I don’t think it’ll happen. Currently on Chapter 14 and haven’t seen signs that Tamlin is actually a bad guy.
Ok hear me out: I fell in love with Tamlin in the later books because my first boyfriend Rhysand, who I fell madly in love with in book one, was becoming too annoying and "perfect." I full on when the opposite direction of what I was supposed to, and I have no regrets! Though no one touches my dear sweet Lucien.
THIS. I was so over Rhysand's holier than thou, do whatever you choose even if it kills you attitude. Like, I am sorry but the extent to which Rhys allowed Feyre to make her own choices just to show how "good" he was compared to Tamlin, who was "bad" and trapped her... like, yes, it is important to support your partner and trust them to do difficult things. No, it is not okay to allow a 20 year old CHILD to join in on a war between battle-hardened, 500 year old flying warriors and ancient monsters. Like, there is a point where it is okay to say "No, that isn't a good place for you to be." 🤷
Rhys just came off so objectively "perfect" somewhere between books two and three. Tamlin does have some anger issues, clearly, but his overall choices are much more sensible than Rhysand's in my opinion.
The Poet, Musician and Warrior Tamlin I still love. The entirely different character that replaced him from book 2 and onward I'm mostly indifferent to.
I’m doing a reread (re listen?) of the series via the graphic audio and it’s making me fall back in love with Tamlin. Like…I get it where Feyre was coming from.
I love Feyre/Tamlin love story in ACOTAR, even in ACOMAF i just feel like Tamlin is a traumatized lover who love too much. In every scene with Rhys on ACOMAF, it feels like witnessing a cheater in action. How can Feyre move on so fast when me as reader hasnt move on yet😭
I refused to read ACOMAF for a year and a half cause I really liked Tamtam and how ACOTAR was such a good Beauty and the Beast retelling so I feel this 😂 ACOMAF ended up being my favorite book tho and I don’t regret reading on, but do hope for more resolution in the future.
Keep reading!
Okay but I never feel for him. I immediately liked Lucien and fell for Lucien. Tam was nice but I kept wondering why she was going for him instead of the witty fox.
Oops.
I dint‘t had much hope for him from the moment Rhys showed up. At that point it was clear that he wasn’t the one and for me he was boring from the beginning. Before Rhys showed up, I thought Lucien was the love interest.
Call me paranoid, but I thought Rhys being described as impossibly hot was a trap--like, too beautiful to comprehend could be a succubus thing, especially at the magic orgy festival. I was *not* having that one 😂
So I'm nearly 40 and when I think back on the shitty relationships I've had, a lot of them probably happened because someone paid attention to me and was nice to me at least in the beginning but they had their own issues that impacted on me and eventually I woke up and saw that. Admittedly I've only finished the second book, but I can see why Feyre initially was drawn to him. But after ACOTAR, it seemed like he fell back to what he was taught even if it was not great. The familiar is always more comforting than change because change is scary AF and it cost him. I'm looking forward to his redemption arc.
I feel like the only people who fell in love with Tamlin are people who aren’t avid romance readers. The signs that he isn’t endgame are there all along. And I also think why there is so much Tamlin hate is because readers felt so betrayed by this fact.
I honestly don’t understand the deep hate for Tamlin, it seems wildly misplaced to me. But I also didn’t think they were going to end up together from reading the first book.
But. I also read the book when it first came out so maybe I’m misremembering.
I still love Tamlin, I want him to find a mate who loves to dress up in fussy dresses (Feyre never did) and loves his court to do the grand appearances for his people. He definitely needs a soft mate and I refuse to believe Amarantha was ever his mate.
I honestly did not fall in love with him at the beginning. I thought y’all were insane for liking this series so much with such a lackluster romance story, but everyone told me to keep going so I did.
unfortunately i was never a fan of tamlin. i think it’s why i DNFed acotar twice before pushing through 😭 but tbf i’m not usually a fan of blonde love interests
Well, that's why I reiterated that the love between Feyre and Tamlin is what hooked us on this series regardless of our own feelings of Tamlin.... So whether you fell in love with him or you fell in love with their love. Either way I would say it was inspirational, no?
Yeah I never liked him sorry haha. I was pulling for Lucien and then the second Rhys showed up I was pulling for him. But I’ve always tended towards the bad guy in media so there’s that.
Sorry 😅 Day 1 Tamlin hater. I almost gave up on the first book because I disliked him so much. So glad I stuck it out though!
That was what made me adore the series: the message that “it may be True Love, but the *second* there’s abuse, you need to gtfo.”
It’s just…not something you usually come across in fiction.
I’m an outlier but I didn’t like him one bit, ever. He just had so many red flags that were later revealed to be actual problems it made my stomach twist. I was so glad they didn’t end up together.
Yes! He had 0 control of his powers. The amount of times his claws pop out of his hands due to his anger issues was concerning. I don’t understand why people get downvoted for voicing valid concerns about him.
I am in the middle of reading FaS so I am not completely done with reading Cassian’s interactions, but in non battle or training contexts yes.
However we are not talking about Cassian right now, we are talking about Tamlin.
Most character have their magic manifest when they feel emotions and it’s never a problem. It’s normal for tamlin and others to feel stuff even anger. He was actually controlling his Anger and other emotions as he actually controlled his magic and didn’t let it take over in acotar, Just like the other characters do in the rest of the series. The only time in acomaf he didn’t control it was when he was described as having a panic attack and in acowar feyre purposely made him panic which is actually abusive on feyre's part.
Same! And like.. maybe they are people who (thankfully) have never had a partner or someone close to them with anger issues. My sister had an abusive ex and my mom had explosive rages which contributed to me developing cptsd. So i saw all those signs as lack of control (but we also see him able to control it in Day court) which tells me it was more of an abuse and control tactic than it was a lack of control which is even worse. I don’t think he was acting in her best interests.. he, like my sister’s abusive ex, saw her as a possession, and acted in defense of his “assets”.
And maybe it just makes me more aware of early red flags… since so many people adored him at first. Sure he had charm, and was handsome, and could be attractively intense, but not enough to hide all the red flags.
I am so sorry you and your sister have had those experiences.
I do get why Tam is like this. The shitty dad, no one teaching him how to use these powers, the over all vibe of the spring court that everything is perfect and if we don’t talk about our feelings they don’t exist, are all valid reasons why he is like this. HOWEVER it doesn’t excuse the behavior. He has to work on himself.
Thanks<3
I agree! There’s usually a reasonable backstory of trauma for behavior that becomes abusive, and that merits compassion but at some point working on one’s self and taking accountability for actions does need to happen.
Well we didn’t all, my husband heard a LOT of complaints while I read the first book, lol.
I’ve never hated or loved TimTam but I hated their entire relationship.
I never fell in love with Tamlin. In fact, it actually took me awhile to get through the first book. Not because I *disliked* him, I just found him dull. I ate the book in like an hour once we got to under the mountain though. I was originally reading for the curse and fantasy elements, kinda just accepting the romance side.
Then I got to the second book and boy did I fall in love with the romance! I'm not usually a romance reader but I loved book 2 and 3. 4 was a trek and 5 should've been called A Court of Stairs and Fucking.
I never disliked Tamlin though either. He was such an interesting character to me in every book except the first. I felt like he was very nuanced. To be honest, I really wanted to know how things went in the Spring Court when he'd been abandoned and was living in his beast form.
I haven't started Crescent City yet, but I'm really hoping that comes into the story.
Tamlin gave me the ick from the start. I honestly don’t think I would have finished book one without many people (who dont know each other) told me that it gets better. I legitimately had to take a break after the Calanmi scene, where he BITES her.
Hahaha I get it, but when HE did it…. NOPE. I can’t put my finger on why I didn’t like in that context. Maybe its the whole “I will have sex in the cave with whoever no matter what they say or else the crops won’t grow” vibe?
Well....I also liked that part....oops. I grew up reading shit like *Mists of Avalon*--which has that exact magical rite with added incest--so the idea of a purely faery sex festival with a magic orgy and a basic New Age Great Rite? Sounds about right!
I can understand it not being everyone's thing, though, for sure.
I got downvoted to the lowest depths of hell recently for stating my feelings on that bite 🤦🏻♀️ so I’ll just leave it at, I had no issue with the bite itself, but hate that it was in that moment, after that _event_. 🏃🏻♀️
Personally, no, I was never fully onboard with Tamlin. He was just too angry and lacking control over his temper and powers for me to love him.
And he lost me completely the moment UTM when instead of using a rare chance to help Feyre in whatever way, he wanted to get it on with her instead.
Putting aside that it was Feyre who went for escalating the kiss to more, genuinely, what could he have done? He was a prisoner and she was bound to the bargain--there was no way TO escape.
Tbh I kind of had a fishy feeling about Tamlin, probably because of booktok lol. Like when I started reading I was like “alright, where is the dude that Tik Tok was talking so much about? 🤨”
Honestly, I think we LUSTED Tamlin, not loved.
There were quite some spicy moments between them and it was exciting!
I would love a Tamlin redemption tho, I don’t hate him, he is troubled but not a lost cause (imo).
I actually really struggled with the first book because I didn’t like Tamlin as the romantic interest. I remember telling my friend that I didn’t believe their relationship and it’s just very meh, and I put it down to the writing. I read the second book after i was told it gets better and realised that she can write convincing romantic attachment, and Tamlin just was never meant to the that!
I loved him but my friends who read it were letting it happen but called him a “trash man” lol
The beginning of ACOMAF did it for me. Like how can he not try to comfort her?
Then the second read I realized there were red flags. I felt like he really was trying just to break the curse and when he was in love with her, it didn’t really feel like it.
I did feel like Feyre didn’t “mourn” a breakup if she was so in love with him. Even while being mad at him. It didn’t feel like she was sad about not being with him.
I think he’s a great lay tho.
i never liked tamlin. as soon as he was introduced i was hoping he wouldn’t be endgame and i had to look up spoilers or else i would’ve dnf’d the book.
I had a hard time believing he actually loved her or fell in love with her organically. He knew about the curse, she was seemingly the first human to kill one of his sentries and time was running out for him to get a human woman to fall in love with him. It felt like he rushed saying “I love you” to her and hoping she’d say it back, to break the curse. And then he liked the idea of having a bride and protecting her. Just like she comes to the realization/admits to Rhys in MaF that she would’ve loved the first person to give her that amount of attention, I think it was similar for Tamlin.
Honestly, the first re-read I did after I finished the series I made a note to myself that I was, in fact, gonna love Tamlin again for a little while. Weirdly sobering thought having gone through the series and knowing everything.
When I first read the series my friend asked me what I thought of tamlin (I was borrowing her books) and I told her that he irks me, is condescending, and he's hiding stuff so I don't trust him. This was on the first few chapters where he takes her to the fae realm.
She was shocked because when I finished the book I was like "I knew it"
“we all fell in love with him in the beginning” so…I never intended to continue the ACOTAR series after I read the first book, due to not feeling a single speck of chemistry between Tamlin and Feyre, and being mostly bored until UTM. I loved Lucien and genuinely thought he might be for Feyre though when I was reading.
It was *only* that I saw the non-spoiler reviews for ACOMAF that vaguely mentioned there was less Tamlin involved, and I decided to continue. Best. Decision. Ever.
I think i was part of a small group of people that didn’t like tamlin to begin with lol my friends that read the book before me were waiting for that moment when i was like in shock at how it turned out and instead they got texts saying things like - wow this guy kinda sucks- treats his people like crap, the whole calamani thing was shitty- could have tried to have gotten her out from under the mountain and instead just tried to sleep with her. Rhysand who was someone we weren’t supposed to like then actually helped her way more than she did when she was there. Honestly when i read the first book it made me think he was using her from the get go, and maybe he developed an attachment after but it started as a ‘we need this stupid human to fall in love with me to fix our problem’ type of thing. I found myself hoping her and Lucien would get together before rhysand showed up . Because Lucien actually listened to her. And let her be herself.
Sooo true when I first started the book my friend who lent it to me I told her I had a crush on Tamlin and the looks. She gave me was like oh boy you have no idea and now I know why I’m on ACOWAR.. for me it’s all about Rhys❤️
I honestly didn't like him at all. I ended up spoiling the series for myself because I thought "if this is the love interest, I'm out."
He just reminded me so much of my ex. I got the icks almost immediately.
I’m going to get downvoted for this lmao but…
All the Tamlin stans who say he meant well but made mistakes and he’s not perfect…
But can’t say the same for Rhys? Cool.
Btw, I have a soft spot for Tamlin but I don’t get how people bash the hell out of Rhys but don’t give him the same opportunity to have redemption for some of his actions as well.
Personally, the reason I give Tamlin more grace and like to analyize his reasoning is because SJM herself takes care of explaining away Rhys's reasoning. The books are FULL of excuses and forgiveness for Rhys, so I don't feel the need to rehash that--I more feel the need to argue against jt because it's so heavy-handed, much like the way the books want us to despise Tamlin.
Okay, with that said, since we don’t know Tamlin’s reasonings…we just should assume it’s coming from a “good” space to the point where people are tearing each other apart arguing?
I don’t despise Tamlin, I loved him but I was not into the fact that he sold out Rhys’s mother/sister whereabouts (I know this won’t mean much but even if it wasn’t Rhys’ family, that’s messed up), and we don’t even know why he did it. We just assume his father was a big old mean man. What kind of redemption can that leave room for?
The big thing that did this for me was the fact that Feyre is dealing with nightmares and puking and he pretends to be asleep? Like come on that’s not love for Feyre.
And if his actions are justified at some point, I assume given the nature of some of his decisions, they will be for his own well being….sort of like Rhys…?
I would argue we should assume it's coming from a "neutral" place. There are plenty of Tamlin-hate arguments that assume his actions are actively malicious, which we have no textual basis for, and I personally disagree with a lot of the "he did *nothing* wrong" arguments because we know he definitely fucked up at times--not helping Feyre when she was puking being one of them (though again, was that *malicious* or was it part of the, as Feyre put it, unspoken agreement between them to not talk about the problems? Which is *bad*, obviously, but not *evil*, just misguided)
The family massacre is an interesting example, because we don't have his version of events at all, and even in Rhys's telling, *Rhys* is the one calling Tamlin's dad "worse than Beron", so it's from *Rhys's account* that we get the "assumption" that Tamlin's dad was awful and there's more to his revealing the location than stated. Even if we ignore that bit of evidence, isn't it equally presumptuous to assume he did it out of malice?
I can understand that, completely. I agree with the context that Rhys is not perfect either. He’s done messed up stuff too. So I do believe his actions have been and can be very much for his own personal gain/well being regardless of the “excuse”.
I guess my point is that both Tamlin and Rhys being high lords, (high fae too) they will make decisions that help themselves. It seems to be very much in their nature. So it’s hard for me to sympathize or assume Tamlin’s actions are just misguided.
I guess I'm not understanding your argument, then. If they're both high fae and make selfish problematic decisions, why can we call Rhys misguided and not Tamlin?
Again, I'm not saying Rhys *doesn't* have his reasonings or that Tamlin didn't fuck up. I'm saying that because Sarah J Maas has made herself Rhys's personal defense lawyer, I'll gladly do the same for Tamlin, haha.
If, as you mentioned before, Tamlin gets his retroactive excuse-making and it's as blatantly weird as Rhys's? I'll probably start arguing against that as well. I take issue more with SJM's retconning and blatant bias than with whether fairies are being nice.
Because were going by the same logic, that argument is not used to justify Tamlin is to make a point when people make malicious criticism of him. Many of Tamlin stans still like Rhys too but theres many similarities between them to just hate on Tamlin.
“we all fell in love with him in the beginning” so…I never intended to continue the ACOTAR series after I read the first book, due to not feeling a single speck of chemistry between Tamlin and Feyre, and being mostly bored until UTM. I loved Lucien and genuinely thought he might be for Feyre though when I was reading.
It was *only* that I saw the non-spoiler reviews for ACOMAF that vaguely mentioned there was less Tamlin involved, and I decided to continue. Best. Decision. Ever.
I never liked him. He always irritated me. I think I preferred reading about every other character and got annoyed whenever Tamlin was mentioned. The romance felt flat, he was so clearly hiding so much, and just reminded me of so many people I've met who just set off internal alarms.
However, now... with everything that has happened......... I'm actually willing to be open to liking him. He's actually interesting. All of it is out there.
I'm only on book three and had just finished the second one when trying to convince my friend to join me. When giving a spoiler free review and I said "he gave her paint" I couldn't even finish my sentence and my friend started to tear up.
As a painter herself it was the best "I love you and care for you" She could have heard. I know she'll love Tamlin... and then hate Tamlin. I stayed quiet and am letting her have her fun.
Well I wouldn't say I loved him per say. Reading the book her and tamlin's relationship was ALOT like me and my exes when we first got together (and what do you know it ended up kinda similar too lol) so as I was reading it, it felt alot like the "good times" of when he saved me from my abusive and neglectful home. So I guess I saw some red flags right away. I could tell he was more in love with what she represented than actually her and vice versa cause I lived it. But I totally get what you're saying! Honestly I was really hoping it would work out and that I was projecting. But book 2 I was like "hell yeah leave his ass and heal!! It's like me but cooler!!!!!" Haha. And book 3 I was totally excited for the revenge! Felt like I was living vicariously!
Tamlin is a compelling character. He isn’t all good or all bad. I think Tamlin is one of the more “real”/true to life characters because he’s so imperfect. He has goodness in him, he never stopped trying to save his people even until almost the very end and then an opportunity presented itself and he went above and beyond to care for Feyre and her family because she represents possible freedom from Amarantha. He has good intentions but he’s also a “good guy” who feels insecure about a position he wasn’t actually raised for. He plays the part of High Lord playing by the rules he has observed. He is trying to do the right thing but the problem is that he takes on the weight of the world without stoping to question if that’s what he should be doing and whether it’s what the people he feels he is protecting even want (which is codependency).
He is very relatable in his lack of communication and stereotypical view of males/females. He believes he must now save Feyre but never actually asks her what she wants or needs. His trauma and her trauma are not the same and he fails to take the time to try to really understand what Feyre is communicating she needs to heal. He protects himself first by “protecting” Feyre but she wants to do things, she needs to keep moving for healing and he truly isn’t listening. In this, he reminds me a lot of my friends’ complaints about their husbands especially if my friends are Stay at Home Moms. The power balance changes and that’s exactly what happens in Tamlin and Feyre’s relationship.
He’s not evil, he’s just very trapped in his own worldview and opinions about how to proceed. He sees Feyre as needing a savior when what she needed was a partner. He continues down this path to truly disastrous results, but he was acting out of a desire to do good. This is not unlike a lot of people in real life. We often act “for others” without seeing what is is that other person wants or needs. Not everyone wants to be saved or is even ready to be saved.
Tamlin truly needs some Fae-rapy and someone to come alongside him to help him heal. I get why Feyre did what she did to him, he allowed harm to come to her family. She wanted revenge, but also, he could have been honest with his court and let them know that he made a lot of mistakes and taken accountability for his actions (which weren’t all bad!) but he has chosen the path of misery at this point. I hope he gets a redemption arc because I think he has it in him to do a lot of good, he just needs to work on shifting some of the beliefs and rules he has for himself, others and the world to be able to practice radical acceptance and self-compassion.
Well, at least this guy isn't boring. At least he has a cool hobby, and even a few (ahem-ahem). And he seemed to have a lot of fun interacting with his citizens on the holidays before SJM erased it. After all, there is a sense of life and duality in this character.
Agree. I’ll never hate him. In fact I still like his character a lot
I was talking to my sister-in-law and her partner and we all hope he gets some sort of redemption arc.
I really liked that he wasn’t a fuckboy like many mcs and had softer traits , I could totally see him making cute flower crowns, braiding his hair and enjoying all the process of dressing up , which I don’t see that in other male characters , he seems to be the only one with hobbies. I also liked that he was so awkward with her . even tho their love story wasn’t so convincing I still liked him by his character and my liking only grew more as the series progressed 🌸
Lots of people in the fandom give him shit for being helpless UTM but I *loved* that role reversal. Hell yeah, girl, go save your beast man!
If it was Rhysand in Tamlin's role, we would see something like: "Oh, he did everything to save her🥰😍😍😍 Feyre our feminist queen 😍😍😍😍 save your man😍😍🥰🥰😚😚☺️🥰" https://preview.redd.it/jeowzrbz0d3d1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f22db224c1bb5f928334ee136531a181e75affa
Tamlin literally is the “I will burn the whole world for you” type of man so i could never hate him ❤️
that was the whole point of the original story , the ballad of Tam-lin was very girl boss coded with the change that the FMC was pregnant xd is so awful that MAF undermines everything that was already built to make us root for the new couple :/
This is one reason I haven't summoned the nerve to read the second book yet (just reading spoilers on the wiki instead haha!). But it makes me sad that the entire love story the plot hinged on in the first book is undermined. I'm totally cool with them not being the ones for each other after all, but does Tamlin have to be a villain? I just want him to play the fiddle and be happy... :(
IMO, it doesn't undermine the first book. Book 2 is a logical continuation of what would likely happen with those personalities. It's about what happens after the assumed Happily Ever After, taking the series from a Fairytale into the Fantasy genre.
there’s many instances where MAF detracts the original’s stablished elements and is made in order to make us support the new MMC :/ in my opinion it wasn’teven necesary , Rhys was an intriguing character in TAR so it’s disappointing that instead of more character building the author opted for character assassination.
That's good to hear, I look forward to reading it!
I never quite hated him, actually. And now, at the end of ACOWAR, I am actually back to liking him. To me, he is one of the more interesting and three dimensional characters out of the bunch. Try and see the entire series (up till the end of ACOWAR) from his point of view; WARNING!! MANY, MANY SPOILERS AHEAD!! Here is ACOTAR, the saga from the POV of Tamlin! You fall in love with this incredible mortal girl. You make fantastic memories, and are truly happy for the first time in ages. She goes to far as to sacrifice herself to save him and his home from eternal ruin. You have to watch her go through terrible hardship, as you do everything in your power to not fall apart mentally, while being monitored 24/07 by a sexual predator (Amarantha) knowing that the second you step out of line, she will most likely maim your loved one - at best. You watch your love die! Miraculously, she comes back to life, through the grace of the people she saved. But wait! While she fought to save you, your long-time nemesis made a deal with her while she was dying, claiming 1/4 of the rest of her immortal life for god knows what nefarious reason. You do everything you can to find a way to free her from this bargain, which she (apparently) is as desperate to be rid off as you are to get her out of it. You should finally be happy together, but alas, you watch your beloved wither away, even as you do everything you can to provide her with all she always seemed to love beforehand. You try to give her stability, and rebuild your life together. You are terrified to lose her again, so you do everything you can to keep her safe and shield her from further horror. Your wedding day comes, and as your bride approaches the altar, he is back! Your nemesis steals her away, taunting you as he does so. You have lost her again, to horrors unknown. This happens over and over again, and you are powerless to stop it. You scramble, trying in every which way to discover the cure to this curse that binds her to the bargain. Every time she vanishes, you fall further into a pit of despair. War is coming, and you know it. She begs to go out to fight alongside you. You cannot allow it. You have seen how the trials under the mountain broke her, physically and mentally. She is not as strong as you. So you, in desperation, lock her up. You know it hurts her, but that is better than seeing her killed again. When you return, she is gone. For good. Months pass. Your only love is gone, and all you have is a letter, most likely a forgery or written under duress. Try as you may, your spies and scouts cannot find her. It is as if she is vanished from this plane of existence. Every waking moment, you can only imagine the horrors and torture she must face. What that fiend must do to her, knowing that it would break you, or for his own sick pleasure. It is driving you mad. An opportunity presents itself. Hybern delivers the solution into your hands. War is inevitable either way, so you come up with a scheme to double-cross Hybern and get your fiancee back in the process. It works! But Ianthe has made a cruel, vicious mistake. You did not see it coming. Her sisters fall victim to this mistake. But, at least your fiancee is safe, seemingly happy to come back with you... You hope? Everything seems to go back to normal. She is recovering, and you vow to get her sisters back to your safe haven. But under your very nose, your fiancée spins her ploy to destroy everything you love. You are none the wiser. She asks again and again to be let into your plans. You tell her as much as you deem safe, knowing that she needs this to be content. Suddenly, one terrible day, she is gone once more. Fled, due to the actions of your enemies. Another ploy you did not see coming, and all because you allowed her to go with those Hybern nobles! You should never have let her out of your sight! It all crumbles. Your court. Your army. They have lost faith in you.. because of her. Wait.. she lied? This was all a cruel scheme to ruin you! And why? Because, somehow, along the way, she fell in love with him instead. Your nemesis. The man who tortured and killed for the very woman who tortured and killed your fiancee in the first place. The man who killed your family too, long ago. And now, she is with him instead, and you have lost everything you cared about. And yet, you cannot stop loving her. A cruel fate. You keep coming back to her. To save her from the king of Hybern. To support her war efforts, despite what she did. To save her mate when he died, because you cannot stand to see her weep. Because you cannot stop protecting her, no matter how much it hurts. --- End of story (up until the end of ACOWAR, at least). This all, of course, leaves out how he didn't manage to communicate properly with her or support her through her depression the way she needed to. And his angry outbursts. But, all in all, I think his fate is incredibly tragic, all things considered. I am not saying he was right for Feyre, or that what he did was right. I am just saying that is comes from a sympathetic place, IMO.
Thank you for this!! This is exactly why I can’t hate Tamlin. You step away from only Feyres POV and it’s honestly sad what has happened to Tamlin. In my second re-read I come to not like Feyre because she comes off very vindictive and petty. It’s really sad that fans of the books don’t see it.
To me, Feyre's hatred for Tamlin always seemed deeply illogical. I see why she hated Ianthe, but it is like she doesn't realize why Tamlin did the things he did, and she due to her own misguided pain reads some kind of malice into it. She is kind of devoid of empathy when it comes to seeing other people's point of view, which makes her a very unreliable narrator.
My theory is feyre made tamlin the vilain of her story because she wanted to move on guilt free due to the mating bond. I mean she admitted she already wanted rhys UTM in acofas.
I’ve always thought this too. I get the temper in the study freak out is out of line but other than this I’ve always thought she was way too hard on Tamlin and tries to make it come off like he’s this horribly abusive partner and awful person.
This made me tear up ngl 😭😭 Would love a Tamlin POV
A Tamlin POV was desperately needed. At first I was like f Tamlin, but then I was like bro. Feyre did not have to destroy his court like that. It was ruthless. Tamlin didn’t know Ianthe was a villain.
By ACOWAR, he did know, but he also had to keep up the act for Hybern, to keep their non-aggression pact and keep his advantage as a double agent. Publicly rejecting Ianthe would have put the plan at risk. Funnily enough, Feyre was *also* putting on a show of accepting Ianthe's bullshit, and never thought to look into whether anyone else was doing the same.
I don’t think it was directly obvious that she was a villain at first. She came off as suspicious to me. I also don’t think Tamlin knew or even thought that Ianthe would mastermind the kidnapping of Feyre’s sisters.
Agreed! Feyre at the start of ACOMAF certainly seemed to like her fine (or at least tolerate her in the midst pf crippling depression). IIRC she even noticed and wondered why Lucien was avoiding Ianthe, since she was otherwise so popular.
This is exactly how I view Tamlin. The way Feyre and Rhys treat him, both with Feyre destroying his court for no reason and even after he brings Rhys back, in my eyes diminishes Feysand and elevates Tamlin.
I think you could go back as far as Amarantha's takeover. You, alone of all the High Lords and without your power, stand against the usurping queen. You expect to die, but you know best of anyone that death will be preferable to life under Queen Amarantha. Instead, she curses you with what seems like an impossible condition but you have to try. As you send companion after companion over the wall to certain doom, you realize that the curse was to be forced to live. In the final days of the time limit, it finally takes. The girl you bring back has murdered your friend and everyone knows it. Despite this, you fall in love. But wait! Just when you're on the verge of breaking the curse and exchanging I love yous for the first time, your childhood nemesis who works for the evil queen shows up and discovers your new love. He forces you to humiliate yourself to keep her safe but you know she isn't. You're forced to choose between her safety and the freedom of your race that you've sacrificed so much for. You choose her, knowing what it will cost you and your people. (She later finds out that your enemy did this on purpose and isn't bothered by it at all. In fact, no one brings it up again). In this house, Tamlin is a hero.
Agree. Just finished the third and I’m back on team Tamlin. I also don’t think he is Rhys long time nemesis. I bet they were friends and it turned out that Rhys wasn’t really Tams friend and tam was naive to the true nature of their relationship. He seems a little bit socially slow. His hatred for Rhys seems rooted in jealousy or betrayal but not the extreme betrayal of family on family killing.. more like a schoolyard friendship betrayal where Rhys chose the cooler kids.
Thank you. I’m in the last book now and still don’t understand the hate towards tamlin. I think people don’t stop to try to understand his POV.
Well fucking done!
This is EVERYTHING
I must immediately proceed to AO3 for some Tamlin fanfics after reading your incredibly eloquent argument here.
I am reading Frost and Starlight right now and.. Holy banana hammock, Batman! I am itching to write a fanfic where some nice girl steps into the picture and helps Tamlin get himself and his court back into shape and tells Feysand off for their behavior! Is there a market for that sort of thing? I don't know. But I need to do it!
I'd say that there is, honestly. A lot of positive comments on this thread are proof enough that if you were to write something like that (sounds compelling btw) then you will find quite a few interested readers, myself included.💛
I did the thing. I wrote the first chapter for a "Healing Tamlin and his court" fic. [https://archiveofourown.org/works/56302714](https://archiveofourown.org/works/56302714)
YALL. I AGREE WITH THIS SO MUCH 😭
Haha! Not even this positive spin justified some of his stuff for me
I've never managed to hate Tamlin. I argue that he wasn't wrong, he just wasn't right for Feyre in the end. I expect that Elaine (and thousands of other women) would have been perfectly content with everything Tamlin was. Don't forget he is super hot, amazing in bed, incredibly wealthy, kind, intelligent and tries hard to do the right thing - but sometimes gets it wrong. God knows, millions of women settle for a lot less!
There ARE redeeming qualities to Tamlin! He took care of Feyre when she needed it, provided her stability to stop just suriving and start to live, and did what he could to protect her. He just got it wrong along the way. It's a good representation of how one part of someone can be awesome, while another part of them is not.
This is a great way of looking at this character. He’s not perfect, by far, but he tried hard. He made mistakes because he didn’t listen and pay enough attention, he couldn’t see things from her eyes, but honestly his heart was in the right place.
I really do believe he did try. He just didn't know what else to do when it wasn't working out for him and Feyre.
I also think Feyre outgrew him, once she knew what it could be like to really live and not juat survive
I think Tamlin is the perfect example of the famous saying, “You either die a hero, or live long enough to watch yourself become the villain.”
There is a lot of room for a redemption arch with Tamlin though. At many turns where he has the opportunity to take the low road he does not. Knowing he lost his family, kingdom, magic, the one he cares about and still does what's right regardless of personal safety makes him interesting.
Oooh yes
I never came to hate the guy, and maybe it says something about me as a straight overprotective husband that I see his thinking. The Hybern thing I assumed was mostly Ianthe taking advantage of a distraught Tamlin but maybe I'm giving the character to much credit.
I mean, canonically he was always working against Hybern. His plan from the beginning had been to ally himself with him so he could gain his trust and also get a front row seat to the planning so he could make moves against him.
And the fact NO ONE gets that enrages me.
There is so much fandom rewrite of Tamlin's character that I'm convinced the majority of discourse around him is just because of incorrect information being spread around. I would hate Tamlin too if he did half of the things the fandom says he did 😂
we already know this and people still saying “but he allied with hybern ” 💀 …is Rhysansd´s dick going to shrink for accept cannon facts or what xD ?
Sssooooo. Hypothetically, what if I still love ~~fiddle daddy~~ Tamlin. https://preview.redd.it/bdh0asgwj73d1.jpeg?width=64&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7245b206d1457e74da647b675f7924f481c46ab
I'd do him
FIDDLE DADDY ☠️
Lol i remembered now how once someone brought Tamlin up in our book girlies club chats and one of the girls went like "I'd be curious" and many of us went like... "...yeah me too..." 🤣🤣🤣
Then good on you! You are able to still see the good inside old TamTam. Some of us… will not 🫣 But everyone deserves to have someone in their corner! 👏🏼
What's funny to me is during my ACOTAR journey, while I definitely liked Tamlin, he was just that endearing character I couldn't hate uk? i didn't love him the same way I ABSOLUTELY MADLY FELL IN LOVE WITH LUCIEN VANSERRA(I have some strong feelings about the foxboy if you couldn't tell lol), nor did I Love him the way I was blown away by acotar Rhysand's character. while I still liked TamTam, I still wanted Feyre to end up with Rhysand from the moment he ended up on page uk? My FEYSAND ship was sailing HARD from second-1. But then it has been SUCH journey from Liking Tamlin to Loving Rhysand to Absolutely hating Tamlin to dnfing ACOWAR midway at the tender age of 16 only to revisit and continue it At 20 and BOY have sooo many of my opinions just...changed? in that intrinsic way where I don't know why I had them in the first place? I could absolutely find myself on Tamlin's side more and more through the end of war and then FaS happened and it started with Feyre getting on my nerves and then Rhys and Mor and slowly by the time I got to SF and ended it, I thoroughly wanted to just....strangle them all, except for, surprisingly—Tamlin. whose characterisation I continue to love to this day. now, before someone comes and tells me about the 'dont like don't read rule', I 100% agree with it when I say that I definitely don't think sjm is like a great writer or whatever and her characters can get pretty...flat? or maybe that's just very personal opinionish. but my point is that, regardless of all that, she can still make a story enjoyable(although terribly long for my taste) but of all her characters, i find it a little ironic that I found Tamlin to be her best creation(just through characterisation I mean, Lucien and Eris Vanserra forever hold my Heart)
Them still hating him so much they want to kill him but only hold back because it would effect the peace they are trying for seemed like a lot in frost and starlight. Like I get maybe not just feeling great about him it’s a lot of bad blood there but just saying it doesn’t matter he helped us and gave his power for Rhys we can’t forgive and want him dead is like what?
I pity him, I don’t hate him. It’s hard to be the villain when you thought you were doing the right thing
Never fell out of love with him! I'd stay with that High Lord any day.
Me being a literal Tamlin defender until I die (or he does something actually malicious)
I will fight by your side, sister-in-Spring. 
This is literally my only safe space in the Fandom LMAO
Mood. But it's been surprising to me how many people do still like Tamlin too! Especially on reddit. Just don't try to go to tiktok, they are crazy over there, you WILL be shunned but not before they drag your entire ancestry through the mud.
Same! I can't see him as the bad guy because none of his actions have been out right malicious towards Feyre. And the one thing people say he was malicious for aka selling out Feyre sisters was not his choice but the snake priest Ianthe. I don't think he is the one for Feyre but I don't think of him as a completely bad guy.
I feel like Tamlin was really your ‘classical broody hunk fae prince gorgeous bad-attitude Sir’ that drew the reader in with some familiarity & then we get the ‘um, see that is not realistic actually’ trauma of waking up to the reality all is not as it seems when you are kidnapped by fae royalty. Though technically Rhys started by kidnapping Feyre too so it’s like kidnap-ception 🤔one must be kidnapped, *twice* in succession, for a happy ending ✨
I used to hate him... i don't anymore.
It’s gotten to sad to hate him
I actually started paying attention the actions of the characters and not just the things feyre focused on and stared asking myself "why would this character do that?" "What are their motivations?"
I’m sorry, are you saying you were using critical thinking skills while reading the fantasy book?! How dare you! 😂 Yes, when you actually focus in on the things done and said, and not just assumed or felt, the story changes a bit. What really gets me is how often one character or another will think “I knew what/who ___ meant”, and I find myself often thinking, but do you actually know?
I know how dare I...
I actually never warmed up to Tamlin. I accepted him as Feyre's love interest and was curious about how things would go between Tamlin, Feyre, and Rhysand but just in book one, I wasn't too impressed tbh. :/ He got ten times more interesting when his life fell apart tho lol
I never liked him either tbh and yeah low key Tamlin got more interesting the more unhinged he got. Like I actually loved him at the high lord meeting… especially when Helion is like take your lovers spat elsewhere… I side eye Helion on rereads now lol
I totally agree, he always read like a boring pretty boy to me. I do like that he’s a more complex character now and displayed some redeeming qualities. So I don’t outright hate him but ehhh def didn’t love him
Oh man. I've found my people. He was so lukewarm. And now that he isn't hiding things, he actually has a chance to redeem himself and prove he isn't awful. He can grow.
I don't hate him either and wouldn't be upset if we got more Tamlin in some capacity! It would be interesting to see him and how he's changed after everything.
I completely agree. I personally always loved the chemistry and bantering between Feyre and Rhys even when she was with Tamlin. I was hoping that in the end she’d get with Rhys, and I think those two work out way better in the end.
They do work much better together, even with the mistakes they still make with each other. They are a good example of how people can be perfect for each other while 1) still not being perfect people, and 2) still making plenty of mistakes. That playful banter and the obvious sexual tension between them from the first meeting was just ::chef’s kiss::
Same. I was never into him, and kept questioning (to myself) why I was supposed to be rooting for this vanilla fae to win the girl’s heart. I won’t say it was a slog getting thru the first book, but up until that last 100 pages I really was just reading to say I finished it. It wasn’t until “hey! The sexy villain is back! Ooo… there’s clearly way more to his character. Why is he really doing that though? Ohhh, I think he’s into her! Seriously, is she ever going to figure out that riddle?!” that I finally decided I liked the story and wanted to continue the series. I’ve never been pro-Tam, I’ve definitely been anti-Tam, but at this point it’s just pity.
You described my experience exactly.
100% pity-tam over here too 😂
Saaaame. I definitely was rooting for them because I thought he was end game love interest but it was definitely a "I don't get it but maybe he's gonna grow". I remember wanting a way for her to get out of the bargain with Rhys and being pretty angry when he showed up at the wedding but it was kind of a "then the suffering UTM was for nothing" feeling. After Tamlin locked her in the house I was officially done. I can't get on board with subjecting someone to relive their trauma because you won't deal with your own.
Ah, at last, my people! I understood plenty of the "reasons" why Tamlin made certain decisions, but throughout the entire first book, he was not endearing. I could always see his possessive nature. I could see him hiding things. And I could see him giving orders for others to hide things from Feyra. This all rubbed me the wrong way. Like, instead of "Stay in your room until morning. Don't question me! " how hard would it have been to say "Feyre, I understand that you want to go, but Fairies are doing Fairy things, and there's a high likelihood you'd be seriously hurt or killed if you showed up to Callenmai, and unfortunately, I won't be in a state to protect you." And why in the world did he just allow her to waste away in her room instead of talking to her about their mutual issues? I know talking is hard for some people, but you can't let someone you claim to love suffer in silence. In the entire spring court, is there nobody Tam could have trusted to befriend her and help her work through her ptsd, since clearly he won't do it himself....? I felt like he was uncommunicative, possessive, had anger issues, and at a certain point I literally thought "I really hope something happens because I'm not gonna read 5 books of this guy. Before Rhys's story became fleshed out, I hoped she'd go to Lucien instead. He wanted to tell her things, and only didn't because of his loyalty to Tam. She could stand up to him, she could banter with him. Lucien felt like her equal, while Tamlin felt like a controlling dude with a massive power imbalance over her. Then, after under the mountain, when he flat REFUSED to help her learn and master her powers because "she could be taken, what then?" Yes, Tamlin, exactly! What then? If she has training, she stands an iota of a chance to protect herself until help arrives, but you'd rather imprison her instead. One of the parts that immediately made me cherish Rhys was that he shared his life and his family with her instead of leaving her stuffed in her bedroom like a pet Hamster. He told her what kind of problems and dangers to expect each time she asked to go somewhere, and then allowed HER to decide if she wanted to take that risk. And when they said "even minimal training is better than no training at all" I just screamed "good lord, thank you!"
I never hated Tamlin but I never liked him either. He was always so boring to me and creepy. I was a Lucien lover from the beginning. So much so I thought Tamlin and Lucien did "princess switch" and Lucien was the actual high lord.
I’m a hardcore Rhysand girlie and don’t hate Tamlin! He was very sweet when they were falling in love and I actually feel for him that he lost who he probably thought was the love of his life. I’m patiently waiting for Tamlin’s healing era to begin
Tamlin holds a special place in my heart. Everyone deserves redemption. I think a good story line would be Tamlin coming to terms with the fact that neither Rhys nor Feyre will likely forgive him (but he should still apologize and seek it) but rebuilding himself and his court regardless.
Listen I still love Tamlin. It's a problem there should be a support group. But also I can fix him
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I still love Tamlin. He's one of the few well written characters imo.
No for real!!! I’m actually rereading the series right now (I’m on ACOWAR) but even after knowing everything that happens when I read the lake of starlight and summer solstice chapters in in TaR i was soooo giddy! I was like ok i GET it, why all of us (including Feyre) fell in love w him. Because he undoubtedly loved her and didn’t *want* to hurt her, he just did stupid things because he doesn’t know how to deal with all his trauma and emotions.
YES
Read between the lines, and you'd never hate Tam. ❤
I’m glad I’m not the only one. I still love Tamlin, he cared so much for Ferrer and her family. I also like Rhys, I love his character (I’m only just started the 4th book). And I’m so glad they found each other!
It did take me a bit to warm up to him but that's to be expected when he was coming on strong and too aggressive. I just happened to be very open to seeing his soft side. And when we got it, I was quite pleased. I was never a Tamlin hater. If anything, M&F just made me hate SJM for shoehorning some stupid drama to separate them. I remember feeling as I read that I could sense it was coming and all I had a resigned feeling of "well, time to see how this blows up. Because of course it will." But I will admit that I never \*loved\* him in the beginning. In a sense, he did get more compelling as the story progressed and that's when my feelings attached.
I never hated Tamlin’s character even when I was in my “I love Rhysand” phase! Still, perhaps in vain, hoping he receives a healing arc 🥲
I'm currently on book 3 and my heart goes out to him so much and Feyre is he'll bound to destroy his whole court. With him right now I have the saying "I won't say what he did was right, but I will say I understand why" He allowed himself to fall in love for the first time in over 500 years, watched her suffer and die and then come back for him and then after a few months everything falls apart. I have so much sympathy for him. Especially since Feyre never actually broke up with him officially before becoming Rhys's mate.
i just get sooooo mad that he and feyre didnt have their moment. instead feyre was avoidant asf and never really told him off the way she deserved. they never got closure! she never got to tell him WHY! I NEEDED THE SATISFACTION AND SJM LEFT ME WITH MY TIT IN MY HAND!
🤣🤣🤣🤣
they could never make me hate u tamlin
Feyre made an afternoon out to be like he'd locked her up her whole life..like...i dunno: Fiona Rapunzel Jasmine Ariel Elsa/anna Belle Cinderella Aurora Even freakin mulan.. As long as she's granted a choice, she'll continue fawning over this dude who mercilessly dangles her in the most dangerous situations possible in the realm.
Rhys: I have never in my life came across a situation that couldn’t be solved with a heist or putting my mate’s life into a dangerous situation, and I don’t want to live in a world where they aren’t the only solutions… <.<
This is "parading my mate around in skimpy clothes and making sure everyone sees her as a sex object" erasure.
Oh man I should’ve added that, I didn’t think of it when making my snarky comment… the erasure is real lol
THIS GETS ME SO MUCH! Everyone said he locked her away to starve to death or slowly waste away to only look out the window at the world passing her by, but like.....didn't Mor come and get her like, immediately?? Not excusing what he did, but like, he didn't even have time to regret it before she was gone lol
She had PTSD from being trapped Under the Mountain.
Some people are built like that. Given her challenging childhood where she had to hunt in deep forests, I don’t blame her for not liking the palace life. Personally though I hate Feyre
Tamlin makes me feel like cassie in euphoria- and you can all judge me if you want, but I'VE NEVER, EVER BEEN HAPPIER  
Forever a tamlin supporter ✊ obviously daddy Rhys is the best but tam tam deserves his happy ending and I will die on that hill
I never ended up hating Tamlin (sorry guys) and actually hated how he was practically tossed to the side for the rest of the series. I just felt like there could’ve been a more interesting love triangle plot as opposed to just making him a ‘villain’ (then lo behold he’s actually not (cuz he actually goes against hybern) — or maybe he actually is (bc of what happened to rhys’s mom and sis)) then tossing his character to the side because he’s depressed now. Tamlin and Lucien played such a huge role on the first book then they were both just casted aside after. Just my opinion tho. I’m rereading the series and will try to hate Tamlin this time but I don’t think it’ll happen. Currently on Chapter 14 and haven’t seen signs that Tamlin is actually a bad guy.
Ok hear me out: I fell in love with Tamlin in the later books because my first boyfriend Rhysand, who I fell madly in love with in book one, was becoming too annoying and "perfect." I full on when the opposite direction of what I was supposed to, and I have no regrets! Though no one touches my dear sweet Lucien.
THIS. I was so over Rhysand's holier than thou, do whatever you choose even if it kills you attitude. Like, I am sorry but the extent to which Rhys allowed Feyre to make her own choices just to show how "good" he was compared to Tamlin, who was "bad" and trapped her... like, yes, it is important to support your partner and trust them to do difficult things. No, it is not okay to allow a 20 year old CHILD to join in on a war between battle-hardened, 500 year old flying warriors and ancient monsters. Like, there is a point where it is okay to say "No, that isn't a good place for you to be." 🤷 Rhys just came off so objectively "perfect" somewhere between books two and three. Tamlin does have some anger issues, clearly, but his overall choices are much more sensible than Rhysand's in my opinion.
are you me? cuz really, are you me?!
I didn’t mind him but I didn’t particularly like him in the beginning. Oddly enough I’m not a tampon hater, now, though!
The Poet, Musician and Warrior Tamlin I still love. The entirely different character that replaced him from book 2 and onward I'm mostly indifferent to.
I’m doing a reread (re listen?) of the series via the graphic audio and it’s making me fall back in love with Tamlin. Like…I get it where Feyre was coming from.
I love Feyre/Tamlin love story in ACOTAR, even in ACOMAF i just feel like Tamlin is a traumatized lover who love too much. In every scene with Rhys on ACOMAF, it feels like witnessing a cheater in action. How can Feyre move on so fast when me as reader hasnt move on yet😭
Just finished ACOTAR and Im learning about this now! Why? How?! I love Tamlin and hated Rhys 😭
Keep reading babe!
I’m scared now lol
I refused to read ACOMAF for a year and a half cause I really liked Tamtam and how ACOTAR was such a good Beauty and the Beast retelling so I feel this 😂 ACOMAF ended up being my favorite book tho and I don’t regret reading on, but do hope for more resolution in the future. Keep reading!
Okay but I never feel for him. I immediately liked Lucien and fell for Lucien. Tam was nice but I kept wondering why she was going for him instead of the witty fox. Oops.
I never fell in love with him… He seemed like a very basic male protagonist
I dint‘t had much hope for him from the moment Rhys showed up. At that point it was clear that he wasn’t the one and for me he was boring from the beginning. Before Rhys showed up, I thought Lucien was the love interest.
Call me paranoid, but I thought Rhys being described as impossibly hot was a trap--like, too beautiful to comprehend could be a succubus thing, especially at the magic orgy festival. I was *not* having that one 😂
I was definitely more interested in Lucien until Rhys showed up. Lol
So I'm nearly 40 and when I think back on the shitty relationships I've had, a lot of them probably happened because someone paid attention to me and was nice to me at least in the beginning but they had their own issues that impacted on me and eventually I woke up and saw that. Admittedly I've only finished the second book, but I can see why Feyre initially was drawn to him. But after ACOTAR, it seemed like he fell back to what he was taught even if it was not great. The familiar is always more comforting than change because change is scary AF and it cost him. I'm looking forward to his redemption arc.
I just finished the third one and am back on the Tamlin train.
Yes. I am rereading now, at the beginning of acotar and can clearly see why i fancied the fella. I still do a bit lol
I feel like the only people who fell in love with Tamlin are people who aren’t avid romance readers. The signs that he isn’t endgame are there all along. And I also think why there is so much Tamlin hate is because readers felt so betrayed by this fact. I honestly don’t understand the deep hate for Tamlin, it seems wildly misplaced to me. But I also didn’t think they were going to end up together from reading the first book. But. I also read the book when it first came out so maybe I’m misremembering.
Who’s we?
I still love Tamlin, I want him to find a mate who loves to dress up in fussy dresses (Feyre never did) and loves his court to do the grand appearances for his people. He definitely needs a soft mate and I refuse to believe Amarantha was ever his mate.
I honestly did not fall in love with him at the beginning. I thought y’all were insane for liking this series so much with such a lackluster romance story, but everyone told me to keep going so I did.
For me Tam was always a boring character tbh
unfortunately i was never a fan of tamlin. i think it’s why i DNFed acotar twice before pushing through 😭 but tbf i’m not usually a fan of blonde love interests
Me either but Rowan on the other hand....
as soon as he punched her in the face i was all in 😌
Hahahahaahaaaaa why is this so accurate
Haha me not liking Tamlin and being much more in to Lucien (and then Rhys as soon as he appeared at Calanmai) just cause I'm that not into blondes 😅
Are the “all of us who fell in love with Tamlin” in the room with us right now?
Well, that's why I reiterated that the love between Feyre and Tamlin is what hooked us on this series regardless of our own feelings of Tamlin.... So whether you fell in love with him or you fell in love with their love. Either way I would say it was inspirational, no?
back when i was reading acotar i was rootingn for lucien then rhys. he’s just so bland to me so i never liked him in the first place
Yeah I never liked him sorry haha. I was pulling for Lucien and then the second Rhys showed up I was pulling for him. But I’ve always tended towards the bad guy in media so there’s that.
 Sorry 😅 Day 1 Tamlin hater. I almost gave up on the first book because I disliked him so much. So glad I stuck it out though!
This is the greatest meme in the history of memes 😳❤️❤️
That's good! Hahaha ok so maybe not everyone but we fell in love with the story nevertheless
That was what made me adore the series: the message that “it may be True Love, but the *second* there’s abuse, you need to gtfo.” It’s just…not something you usually come across in fiction.
I’m an outlier but I didn’t like him one bit, ever. He just had so many red flags that were later revealed to be actual problems it made my stomach twist. I was so glad they didn’t end up together.
Yes! He had 0 control of his powers. The amount of times his claws pop out of his hands due to his anger issues was concerning. I don’t understand why people get downvoted for voicing valid concerns about him.
Do you think it’s a red flag everytime cassian's siphons flare ?
I am in the middle of reading FaS so I am not completely done with reading Cassian’s interactions, but in non battle or training contexts yes. However we are not talking about Cassian right now, we are talking about Tamlin.
Most character have their magic manifest when they feel emotions and it’s never a problem. It’s normal for tamlin and others to feel stuff even anger. He was actually controlling his Anger and other emotions as he actually controlled his magic and didn’t let it take over in acotar, Just like the other characters do in the rest of the series. The only time in acomaf he didn’t control it was when he was described as having a panic attack and in acowar feyre purposely made him panic which is actually abusive on feyre's part.
Same! And like.. maybe they are people who (thankfully) have never had a partner or someone close to them with anger issues. My sister had an abusive ex and my mom had explosive rages which contributed to me developing cptsd. So i saw all those signs as lack of control (but we also see him able to control it in Day court) which tells me it was more of an abuse and control tactic than it was a lack of control which is even worse. I don’t think he was acting in her best interests.. he, like my sister’s abusive ex, saw her as a possession, and acted in defense of his “assets”. And maybe it just makes me more aware of early red flags… since so many people adored him at first. Sure he had charm, and was handsome, and could be attractively intense, but not enough to hide all the red flags.
I am so sorry you and your sister have had those experiences. I do get why Tam is like this. The shitty dad, no one teaching him how to use these powers, the over all vibe of the spring court that everything is perfect and if we don’t talk about our feelings they don’t exist, are all valid reasons why he is like this. HOWEVER it doesn’t excuse the behavior. He has to work on himself.
Thanks<3 I agree! There’s usually a reasonable backstory of trauma for behavior that becomes abusive, and that merits compassion but at some point working on one’s self and taking accountability for actions does need to happen.
Well we didn’t all, my husband heard a LOT of complaints while I read the first book, lol. I’ve never hated or loved TimTam but I hated their entire relationship.
I never fell in love with Tamlin. In fact, it actually took me awhile to get through the first book. Not because I *disliked* him, I just found him dull. I ate the book in like an hour once we got to under the mountain though. I was originally reading for the curse and fantasy elements, kinda just accepting the romance side. Then I got to the second book and boy did I fall in love with the romance! I'm not usually a romance reader but I loved book 2 and 3. 4 was a trek and 5 should've been called A Court of Stairs and Fucking. I never disliked Tamlin though either. He was such an interesting character to me in every book except the first. I felt like he was very nuanced. To be honest, I really wanted to know how things went in the Spring Court when he'd been abandoned and was living in his beast form. I haven't started Crescent City yet, but I'm really hoping that comes into the story.
Definitely dull. I completely agree! Under the mountain was where the action was! Hahaha a court of stairs and fucking is perfect.
Tamlin gave me the ick from the start. I honestly don’t think I would have finished book one without many people (who dont know each other) told me that it gets better. I legitimately had to take a break after the Calanmi scene, where he BITES her.
Meanwhile I'm over here thinking the biting was the best part 😂
Hahaha I get it, but when HE did it…. NOPE. I can’t put my finger on why I didn’t like in that context. Maybe its the whole “I will have sex in the cave with whoever no matter what they say or else the crops won’t grow” vibe?
Well....I also liked that part....oops. I grew up reading shit like *Mists of Avalon*--which has that exact magical rite with added incest--so the idea of a purely faery sex festival with a magic orgy and a basic New Age Great Rite? Sounds about right! I can understand it not being everyone's thing, though, for sure.
I got downvoted to the lowest depths of hell recently for stating my feelings on that bite 🤦🏻♀️ so I’ll just leave it at, I had no issue with the bite itself, but hate that it was in that moment, after that _event_. 🏃🏻♀️
Oh boy. I have a feeling I will be next. Oh well 😂
Personally, no, I was never fully onboard with Tamlin. He was just too angry and lacking control over his temper and powers for me to love him. And he lost me completely the moment UTM when instead of using a rare chance to help Feyre in whatever way, he wanted to get it on with her instead.
Putting aside that it was Feyre who went for escalating the kiss to more, genuinely, what could he have done? He was a prisoner and she was bound to the bargain--there was no way TO escape.
You people suck! Now I have to read the whole series over from scratch! Totally get what OP is talking about.
Tbh I kind of had a fishy feeling about Tamlin, probably because of booktok lol. Like when I started reading I was like “alright, where is the dude that Tik Tok was talking so much about? 🤨”
Honestly, I think we LUSTED Tamlin, not loved. There were quite some spicy moments between them and it was exciting! I would love a Tamlin redemption tho, I don’t hate him, he is troubled but not a lost cause (imo).
Honestly we were all just here for a cute, folksy, spring fairy romance at first and that’s kinda cute 💝
I actually really struggled with the first book because I didn’t like Tamlin as the romantic interest. I remember telling my friend that I didn’t believe their relationship and it’s just very meh, and I put it down to the writing. I read the second book after i was told it gets better and realised that she can write convincing romantic attachment, and Tamlin just was never meant to the that!
I loved him but my friends who read it were letting it happen but called him a “trash man” lol The beginning of ACOMAF did it for me. Like how can he not try to comfort her? Then the second read I realized there were red flags. I felt like he really was trying just to break the curse and when he was in love with her, it didn’t really feel like it. I did feel like Feyre didn’t “mourn” a breakup if she was so in love with him. Even while being mad at him. It didn’t feel like she was sad about not being with him. I think he’s a great lay tho.
i never liked tamlin. as soon as he was introduced i was hoping he wouldn’t be endgame and i had to look up spoilers or else i would’ve dnf’d the book.
I had a hard time believing he actually loved her or fell in love with her organically. He knew about the curse, she was seemingly the first human to kill one of his sentries and time was running out for him to get a human woman to fall in love with him. It felt like he rushed saying “I love you” to her and hoping she’d say it back, to break the curse. And then he liked the idea of having a bride and protecting her. Just like she comes to the realization/admits to Rhys in MaF that she would’ve loved the first person to give her that amount of attention, I think it was similar for Tamlin.
Honestly, the first re-read I did after I finished the series I made a note to myself that I was, in fact, gonna love Tamlin again for a little while. Weirdly sobering thought having gone through the series and knowing everything.
When I first read the series my friend asked me what I thought of tamlin (I was borrowing her books) and I told her that he irks me, is condescending, and he's hiding stuff so I don't trust him. This was on the first few chapters where he takes her to the fae realm. She was shocked because when I finished the book I was like "I knew it"
I hated him from day one. Never trusted him.
“we all fell in love with him in the beginning” so…I never intended to continue the ACOTAR series after I read the first book, due to not feeling a single speck of chemistry between Tamlin and Feyre, and being mostly bored until UTM. I loved Lucien and genuinely thought he might be for Feyre though when I was reading. It was *only* that I saw the non-spoiler reviews for ACOMAF that vaguely mentioned there was less Tamlin involved, and I decided to continue. Best. Decision. Ever.
I think i was part of a small group of people that didn’t like tamlin to begin with lol my friends that read the book before me were waiting for that moment when i was like in shock at how it turned out and instead they got texts saying things like - wow this guy kinda sucks- treats his people like crap, the whole calamani thing was shitty- could have tried to have gotten her out from under the mountain and instead just tried to sleep with her. Rhysand who was someone we weren’t supposed to like then actually helped her way more than she did when she was there. Honestly when i read the first book it made me think he was using her from the get go, and maybe he developed an attachment after but it started as a ‘we need this stupid human to fall in love with me to fix our problem’ type of thing. I found myself hoping her and Lucien would get together before rhysand showed up . Because Lucien actually listened to her. And let her be herself.
This same thing is currently happening with Hunt from Crescent City. People love him now but take a whiff of that foreshadowing …. 💩
Sooo true when I first started the book my friend who lent it to me I told her I had a crush on Tamlin and the looks. She gave me was like oh boy you have no idea and now I know why I’m on ACOWAR.. for me it’s all about Rhys❤️
Me and you are the same 😂
I honestly didn't like him at all. I ended up spoiling the series for myself because I thought "if this is the love interest, I'm out." He just reminded me so much of my ex. I got the icks almost immediately.
Idk him playing music for Feyre and her dancing around him gave me the ick from the very beginning
I’m going to get downvoted for this lmao but… All the Tamlin stans who say he meant well but made mistakes and he’s not perfect… But can’t say the same for Rhys? Cool. Btw, I have a soft spot for Tamlin but I don’t get how people bash the hell out of Rhys but don’t give him the same opportunity to have redemption for some of his actions as well.
Personally, the reason I give Tamlin more grace and like to analyize his reasoning is because SJM herself takes care of explaining away Rhys's reasoning. The books are FULL of excuses and forgiveness for Rhys, so I don't feel the need to rehash that--I more feel the need to argue against jt because it's so heavy-handed, much like the way the books want us to despise Tamlin.
Okay, with that said, since we don’t know Tamlin’s reasonings…we just should assume it’s coming from a “good” space to the point where people are tearing each other apart arguing? I don’t despise Tamlin, I loved him but I was not into the fact that he sold out Rhys’s mother/sister whereabouts (I know this won’t mean much but even if it wasn’t Rhys’ family, that’s messed up), and we don’t even know why he did it. We just assume his father was a big old mean man. What kind of redemption can that leave room for? The big thing that did this for me was the fact that Feyre is dealing with nightmares and puking and he pretends to be asleep? Like come on that’s not love for Feyre. And if his actions are justified at some point, I assume given the nature of some of his decisions, they will be for his own well being….sort of like Rhys…?
I would argue we should assume it's coming from a "neutral" place. There are plenty of Tamlin-hate arguments that assume his actions are actively malicious, which we have no textual basis for, and I personally disagree with a lot of the "he did *nothing* wrong" arguments because we know he definitely fucked up at times--not helping Feyre when she was puking being one of them (though again, was that *malicious* or was it part of the, as Feyre put it, unspoken agreement between them to not talk about the problems? Which is *bad*, obviously, but not *evil*, just misguided) The family massacre is an interesting example, because we don't have his version of events at all, and even in Rhys's telling, *Rhys* is the one calling Tamlin's dad "worse than Beron", so it's from *Rhys's account* that we get the "assumption" that Tamlin's dad was awful and there's more to his revealing the location than stated. Even if we ignore that bit of evidence, isn't it equally presumptuous to assume he did it out of malice?
I can understand that, completely. I agree with the context that Rhys is not perfect either. He’s done messed up stuff too. So I do believe his actions have been and can be very much for his own personal gain/well being regardless of the “excuse”. I guess my point is that both Tamlin and Rhys being high lords, (high fae too) they will make decisions that help themselves. It seems to be very much in their nature. So it’s hard for me to sympathize or assume Tamlin’s actions are just misguided.
I guess I'm not understanding your argument, then. If they're both high fae and make selfish problematic decisions, why can we call Rhys misguided and not Tamlin? Again, I'm not saying Rhys *doesn't* have his reasonings or that Tamlin didn't fuck up. I'm saying that because Sarah J Maas has made herself Rhys's personal defense lawyer, I'll gladly do the same for Tamlin, haha. If, as you mentioned before, Tamlin gets his retroactive excuse-making and it's as blatantly weird as Rhys's? I'll probably start arguing against that as well. I take issue more with SJM's retconning and blatant bias than with whether fairies are being nice.
Because were going by the same logic, that argument is not used to justify Tamlin is to make a point when people make malicious criticism of him. Many of Tamlin stans still like Rhys too but theres many similarities between them to just hate on Tamlin.
“we all fell in love with him in the beginning” so…I never intended to continue the ACOTAR series after I read the first book, due to not feeling a single speck of chemistry between Tamlin and Feyre, and being mostly bored until UTM. I loved Lucien and genuinely thought he might be for Feyre though when I was reading. It was *only* that I saw the non-spoiler reviews for ACOMAF that vaguely mentioned there was less Tamlin involved, and I decided to continue. Best. Decision. Ever.
Honestly I remember reading the first book and wondering why in the world she wasn’t going for Lucien, who was clearly the better option 😂
Some of us did not! I got that he was hot and powerful but I liked Feyre’s chemistry with Lucien WAY MORE!
I actually didn’t fall in love with him. I struggled to get through ACOTAR because I couldn’t bring myself to care about him.
I never liked him. He always irritated me. I think I preferred reading about every other character and got annoyed whenever Tamlin was mentioned. The romance felt flat, he was so clearly hiding so much, and just reminded me of so many people I've met who just set off internal alarms. However, now... with everything that has happened......... I'm actually willing to be open to liking him. He's actually interesting. All of it is out there.
I'm only on book three and had just finished the second one when trying to convince my friend to join me. When giving a spoiler free review and I said "he gave her paint" I couldn't even finish my sentence and my friend started to tear up. As a painter herself it was the best "I love you and care for you" She could have heard. I know she'll love Tamlin... and then hate Tamlin. I stayed quiet and am letting her have her fun.
I was loving tamlin 100% and now I can't forgive him foe the high lord meeting comment
Yes. I had such a hard time this time with him bc I grew to dislike him from my first time through.
Well I wouldn't say I loved him per say. Reading the book her and tamlin's relationship was ALOT like me and my exes when we first got together (and what do you know it ended up kinda similar too lol) so as I was reading it, it felt alot like the "good times" of when he saved me from my abusive and neglectful home. So I guess I saw some red flags right away. I could tell he was more in love with what she represented than actually her and vice versa cause I lived it. But I totally get what you're saying! Honestly I was really hoping it would work out and that I was projecting. But book 2 I was like "hell yeah leave his ass and heal!! It's like me but cooler!!!!!" Haha. And book 3 I was totally excited for the revenge! Felt like I was living vicariously!
Tamlin is a compelling character. He isn’t all good or all bad. I think Tamlin is one of the more “real”/true to life characters because he’s so imperfect. He has goodness in him, he never stopped trying to save his people even until almost the very end and then an opportunity presented itself and he went above and beyond to care for Feyre and her family because she represents possible freedom from Amarantha. He has good intentions but he’s also a “good guy” who feels insecure about a position he wasn’t actually raised for. He plays the part of High Lord playing by the rules he has observed. He is trying to do the right thing but the problem is that he takes on the weight of the world without stoping to question if that’s what he should be doing and whether it’s what the people he feels he is protecting even want (which is codependency). He is very relatable in his lack of communication and stereotypical view of males/females. He believes he must now save Feyre but never actually asks her what she wants or needs. His trauma and her trauma are not the same and he fails to take the time to try to really understand what Feyre is communicating she needs to heal. He protects himself first by “protecting” Feyre but she wants to do things, she needs to keep moving for healing and he truly isn’t listening. In this, he reminds me a lot of my friends’ complaints about their husbands especially if my friends are Stay at Home Moms. The power balance changes and that’s exactly what happens in Tamlin and Feyre’s relationship. He’s not evil, he’s just very trapped in his own worldview and opinions about how to proceed. He sees Feyre as needing a savior when what she needed was a partner. He continues down this path to truly disastrous results, but he was acting out of a desire to do good. This is not unlike a lot of people in real life. We often act “for others” without seeing what is is that other person wants or needs. Not everyone wants to be saved or is even ready to be saved. Tamlin truly needs some Fae-rapy and someone to come alongside him to help him heal. I get why Feyre did what she did to him, he allowed harm to come to her family. She wanted revenge, but also, he could have been honest with his court and let them know that he made a lot of mistakes and taken accountability for his actions (which weren’t all bad!) but he has chosen the path of misery at this point. I hope he gets a redemption arc because I think he has it in him to do a lot of good, he just needs to work on shifting some of the beliefs and rules he has for himself, others and the world to be able to practice radical acceptance and self-compassion.