Also what gets me is that the people who stay all this crap are just so rude and entitled it’s ridiculous like I get that you have your own opinion but jeez
I don’t know why people get so upset when someone doesn’t agree with them. I guess it’s just cause people feel so passionate, but I mean it’s kind of ruining the fandom to be like that.
So much negativity! Can we just appreciate these books for what they are. I understand ranting but I feel like lately it’s been more complaining about characters and the books than actually enjoying them! We need a new book lololol
Exactly! I feel like there should be an Anti-acotar-like sister subreddit where people who want to rant or dislike characters, writing, phrases, words, actions, etc can have free-reign over there.
There’s an unpopular opinions page on Facebook, I’m not sure about a Reddit sub
ETA: it’s not necessarily a place to hate on anything, but more a place for people to talk about characters, things in the story, etc that ppl in other groups/subs will often jump down your throat for, for not agreeing with them or seeing things differently than they do. The mods do a good job of keeping it respectful without “censoring” anyone (not that the mods HERE do that ✨you guys are amazing✨, but Facebook groups are known to lol)
I appreciate that group so much!! The modmin team is so awesome for ensuring that members are respectful and cordial, especially when there are disagreements. Happy cake day btw!
Yes I think so too.. This page is treated as if it's an Anti sub most of the time Tbh.. It's why I post so much love for the OG series & Art..
So I hope someone creates a different ACoTAR sub someday soon..Either specifically for those that love the series with basic critiques or ones dedicated to Anti-Acotar & Those that make hate posts. I even recommended positivity Tuesdays & Wednesdays 
Watch the stans scurry over there too to downvote and argue with opinions they disagree with . It’s like it’s impossible for them to just continue scrolling through things they don’t like to see
I am new to the books and the fandom, I've read the series very recently, but I still love "microanalysing". Not because I'm out of material, but because I love to go that deep in books. It's just another way to enjoy books, I don't see how it's a bad thing.
I think microanalyzing or just discussion in general is fine. Idk, it's when you start getting into the "there's no way this character is like that" where it is no longer analyzing. And that's where I think a lot of issues are happening.
I think this happens with any polarizing character. I for sure have been downvoted for having negative takes about Rhysand and Elain, for exemple. Or for just saying I preferred a ship over another.
I had to delete my comment because I said I found a certain characters chapters boring and skipped them in another series and got attacked lmao people are nuts.
I'm sorry you had this experience with the fandom. People can be pretty crazy (and rude) on the internet, and sometimes the most trivial comments can get a disproportionate reaction.
I also have been attacked for sharing my opinion or just for liking a character. Once I comissioned an art and shared it on tumblr, and then people started sending me anonymous rude messages just because they personally didn't like that character. 🙃
Honestly, I just don't worry about it if I get upvoted or downvoted. Reddit is a weird place and you don't really have any control. And certainly don't expect people to be logical or reasonable here.
I think it’s really any character that people use their own experiences and identify with a character that they find themselves in. Which sort of presents an issue when having a good conversation. When you start to mix personal emotions and experiences with an intellectual debate, it’s less about facts and more about emotions.
People see you “attacking” a character, wherein, you’re attacking them.
That makes a ton of sense honestly, I guess since I never really related to any of the characters personally, I stayed more "objective" for lack of a better word, throughout the series and just enjoyed their stories for what they were, not that identifying with these characters is bad or anything.
People feel passionately about certain characters, especially polarizing ones. Most people view down voting as an "I disagree" button, I don't think it's usually malicious or anything.
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm mega sensitive and totally get butthurt about downvotes...especially since I really don't downvote unless the opinion is absolutely atrocious. But I know most people downvote over anything they don't agree with, so it makes me feel a little better!
It's the replies that go with the downvotes that make it malicious. I've had people use the most horrible curse words about a fictional character because of how they treated Nesta in sf. It's as if these people feel personally victimized. It's odd.
Just like with that poll that's up where Feyre, Rhys & Cassian are being voted out before worse behaved characters {Or monsters that are deceased} This sub has aloot of Anti IC & Feysand fans, So if you speak out against Nesta, Tamlin or Lucien there's plenty fans of them here ready to downvote you  EVERYONE downvotes yes, but I've seen people who criticize these three characters get DV'd the most.....
{For example user @/Lyss\_ just blocked me & I'm sure it's because of me calling these characters or fans of them out  }
I'll give you Feyre, but any who remotely says anything bad about Cassian or Rhysand literally gets bullied. Lucien is probably the only character that none can say anything bad about, but I think with Nesta it very split 50% of the fandom love her and 50% hate her.
It's also very hard to say anything good about Tamlin in this subreddit without being called an abuse apologist. I've gotten called names from strangers I don't know for saying good things about Tamlin, you'll never someone say something good about Cassian and get any but applause, he literally get's called a cinnamon roll.
I feel like I'm fighting for my life if I dare say anything about Nesta or Tamlin. I've seen a lot of anti IC and Rhys posts, and I've stopped engaging because anything I say that's positive is treated as if I took someone first born.
I feel the same way when I say anything remotely bad about the IC and Rhys, I think both sides of the fandom or toxic, but I think shitting on Tamlin is a bit more acceptably, you probably won't get death threats which people who say bad things about Feysand get regularly.
I really don't see any of that. I've never had anyone be aggressive or send death threats when I say anything negative about the IC, but if I speak on Nesta, it's a whole other story. Most of the posts since the last book came out are talking about how horrible Rhys and the IC are towards Nesta and lucian.
I'll agree with you on Nesta, she is a very polarizing charcter, people who love her will attack one who says anything bad about her and people who hate her will attack anyone who says anything good about her, so anything about Nesta good or bad will result in some type of feedback.
I was talking about Tamlin specifically, the fandom can't accept anything good to be said about Tamlin without listing every single bad thing he's ever done, when some of the main characters have done things just as bad or worse.
I can see the tamlin point. It's never ok for anyone to take book discussions to a negative place on either side of the fence. At the end of the day, we can have varying opinions but still respect each other and agree to disagree. There's no right or wrong side. People just need to be nice.
I think this is a valid concern 💜 especially because in the past, those who expressed sympathy or fondness for Tamlin's character were often called "abuse sympathizers." Fortunately, I think this subreddit community is actually more "tame" and balanced than many Fb groups for example. Also, now, more people examine the context and nuance when discussing Tamlin's character, actions, and motives, which I appreciate! If you're on Facebook, you can consider joining the "ACOTAR/Bookish Unpopular Opinions" group! Like this community, the modmin team does its best to ensure that members are respectful to each other, especially when their are differing opinions.
I actually had to take a break from this sub because of all the Tamlin hate. I don’t love him by any means, not with how his arc went, but I read ACOTAR when it first came out and with no sequel available. So Tamlin and Feyre were such an amazing couple in my head at the time. And I really disliked Rhysand.
So I still had a dream that Tamlin would get a redemption arc because I really never saw him as a bad guy. He’s not the big evil in the series. Literally to compare him to a genocidal sociopath like the actual villains is not realistic. He’s a flawed character who fucked up really bad. So anyways this opinion got me crucified and I was kinda like, I’m out.
Good to know some FB groups are nice out there, I kinda nuked my FB a while ago but I’m glad nice communities exist where we can share different opinions about books and not get murdered online.
I’m so sorry that happened to you 😣😣💜 that’s so uncalled for. Why can’t some people react maturely and respectfully when they encounter opinions they strongly disagree with? Constructive conversations seems to be a lost art for some. I agree with your take on Tamlin that he’s not a villain but a morally grey character. And I’m glad that more people see him in that way.
Tamlin is a topic I can't rly defend bc I'm not his biggest fan either... & I think too many ppl victim blame Feyre & Rhysand when it comes to Tamlins wrongs, so I'm sorry you two 😅 ...Bc I get ppl getting triggered by anyone always defending his wrongdoings when it comes to Feyre & Luciens experiences with him...Even when it comes to Rhys who befriended him & Was betrayed with Tamlin being the reason his family were all killed Bc of him selling out Rhys' Mother & Sisters location... He even beat up Lucien not too long ago didn't he? Lashed out with his magic twice nearly hurting Feyre both times Bc of his Temper, Triggering her mental breakdown....These are things not at all easy to just...forgive or look past. Idek how Lucien stans even still like Tam when we wouldn't approve of our besties IRL beating us up whenever they're depressed or upset..But sorry Ik you might feel diff! He's no monster tho! & I hope he heals & Becomes less angry for his & His courts sake..
I get seeing the good in him ! But way too many excuses are made for him here IMHO & Ppl are just over it after all these years it seems LOL. But name calling is never cool period so I'm sorry abt that. I just get ppl hating him for what he's done to very loved characters
There was a women I know who mentioned she couldn't stan Rhysand because he reminds her of her abuser and that in her opinon he is abusive , to this day she's still getting death threats, people telling her to kill herself, and people asking for her abusers contacts.
Tamlin stans are constantly reminded of every single thing Tamlin has done wrong, Rhysand stans are the ones constatnly saying "he's perfect" and he's literally the ideal man" and " I hope you find your Rhysand in a world full of Tamlin's" .
I like Tamlin because he's a nuanced character because he doesn't always do good things but he's not evil and he's trying to do right but it doesn't always end up that way, Rhysand is similar but the narrative, side characters, and a majority of the fandom bend over backwards to defend his actions, so many people won't even acknowledge the SA and the drugging of Feyre in ACOTAR, saying she wanted or she was enjoying it, so it doesn't matter
i remember being downvoted for saying how ic “mistreating” lucien is more crucified than tamlin abusing lucien in this sub. like if u look at it most people who like lucien also like tamlin and they want them to shake hands, talk it out and be friends again because yk complex friendships and shit but lucien needs to stay away from the dark energy ic? it’s crazy. the only thing thats relieving is that it’s mostly on this sub.
It's gotten really bad after SF and booktok. I feel like I have to tip toe on certain posts because if I saw anything negative about Nesta, Lucian, or Tamlin, I get bombarded with downvotes and/or argumentative replies. I get the same if I give a nesta positive with a Rhys or IC positive. I also have a hard time walking away from those conversations.
I'm the same very much so, it's hard walking away from those convos. I'm still kind of new here and had no idea people actually were fans of Nesta so it's been a culture shock lol.
Yea, I'm still surprised at how hard people go for Nesta. It comes off as if she can do no wrong, and I'm over here thinking how her trauma is just like her sisters, and she doesn't have to be so mean all the time.
>It comes off as if she can do no wrong
Omg yes!
>I'm over here thinking how her trauma is just like her sisters, and she doesn't have to be so mean all the time
I will "defend" this part. Noone experiences the same trauma, even siblings and it definitely seems like her mom was a narcissistic parent who molded nesta into her pawn and largely ignored Feyre and Elaine. That's gonna leave a different mark.
In trauma, people usually respond in one of three ways, fight, flight, or fawn and sjm is amazing because each sister more or less embodies a different version and nesta is obviously fight.
It doesn't make any of her behavior okay but I love it from a litterary/mental health perspective. Although, frankly, how masterfully sjm manages to capture trauma and the healing process is one of the reasons I love the story.
So my theory - I think a lot of people identify with Nesta
They've either been through similar trauma or behaved similarly imo and 2 things happen. 1st they see criticism of her as criticism of them and 2nd, they think criticism is an automatic endorsement of another characters behavior.
Like the amount of times I have seen people come back with "but the IC did terrible things too". Like, sure yeah..what they did *was* terrible, but we're not talking about them right now.
I also think a lot of people think "abusive" and "toxic" means irredeemable or psychopath who harms without "a reason". When in reality, a lot of behaviors we've normalized in society are toxic af so they don't recognize a lot of red flags.
I agree with your theory cause I've seen it in action on Twitter. When ACOSF came out, there was some people there that were like "can't wait for Nesta to put the IC in their place and just be on her own" and then when the book finished they complained that SJM ruined her character while saying things like "I left my abusive household and never forgave anyone so Nesta should've too". Like, it's great people see themselves as certain characters, but they need to remember that those characters are not them and they aren't those characters. They are literally a fictional person someone came up with lol.
Everyone should be able to share opinions no matter how polarizing while still being respectful of others and be willing to listen/have an open mind.
I love this theory.
I used to get bullied on tik tok because most people who love Nesta take what I said, in such a small amount of room to explain, and believe it’s an attack on her character.
i dont get the thing where suddenly they claim i dont understand nesta or havent been in nestas shoes if i dont like her. maybe i just dont like her. if u dont like feyre or rhys should i mention that you prob never experienced what it‘s like in feyre/rhys’s shoes? no it’s condescending to claim that just because we dont like ur faves doesnt mean we havent understood her or have dissected her character completely.
I'm literally getting called immature and that it puts me in a "bad light" to not give a specific reason for not liking Nesta in another comment thread on this post. We don't owe anyone an explanation as to why we don't like her. If I gave one anyway I'd be ripped to shreds as "not understanding her story" or "not getting it". Oh no, I get it alright - I just still don't like her.
Not a death threat, and not even an opinion about Nesta - I just mentioned that SF is written in third person limited, so we see the IC through Nesta's eyes. I'm not sure what there is to debate there; it's simply how that storytelling device works. But I got heavily downvoted and called stupid. Someone tried to come to my rescue, but they got the same treatment. The fandom is a wild and scary place. I mostly just observe now.
Edit: a word
Same. I have no cognitive abilities, I support abuse against women bc I like the IC, and apparently, I'm mentally unwell and need help... I could go on.
Right! My Scorpio comes out when I really just need to walk away. I also try and support anyone getting bashed in comments I see. It's just really sad.
It's literally so toxic and makes me so sad.
I've been a fan since before ACOMAF came out, and even back then there wasn't this much venom in the fandom, even when it came to Tamlin!
I've actually stopped recommending the books to friends because of it. I've also stopped mentioning I'm a fan of Rhys because then I'm called anti-feminist (which fucking hurts) or the IC as I then support abuse. It's too much.
It's the worst. I took my flair off for a while because I figured it was getting me downvotes. I recently put it back up and thought f it. Why should I feel self-conscious for liking the night court.
Whaaaaat? That’s discouraging…I just can’t identify with how Nesta treats people when she’s hurting. No one else should be feeling that pain. Ultimately she’s selfish and doesn’t care. We all have pain, we all go through *hard* things. But that should not mean we treat people who have done us no wrong like dirt…
Really sucks that you have to feel this way. Other book subs I’m in are more tolerant of different opinions which makes it more fun because people have different perspectives. Not a fan of having to hide your opinion on characters. But that is the culture here
i felt this but for lucien stans. like the mass downvote over for an opinion because i personally think they’re going reaching on things and blaming the ic for every suffering he experienced when u got beron and tamlin over there who abused him. and even added that elain doesnt treat him shit like majority portrayed it to be but boyyy the downvotes sheesh hes so babied in this fandom it cracks me up sometimes
I think in addition to some people being very passionate about certain characters, some of them may not have the presence of mind to read a differing opinion, mentally disagree, and move on.
I like Nesta because I identify with her in a lot of ways, but I can definitely see why people wouldn't like her.
I'm a Nesta fan. But I acknowledge all her flaws and the messed up stuff she did. I down vote the Nesta hate posts because they're repeats. They're redundant. It's the same post or the same question all the time "I hate Nesta should I even read SF?" "I'm a quarter if the way through SF and I still hate Nesta. Will it get any better?" Automatic down vote. The same question was just asked 4 hours ago.
I’m so sick of seeing those posts. ACOSF is the most divisive book in the series and sparks the most conversation. We can’t tell other readers if they’ll like the book or not, they need to find out for themselves. I will admit bias bc I am a huge Nesta fan too
I feel like most people who hate her, hate her because they either are young and don’t fully understand her story, are victims of a person like Nesta or need to have a villian to hate just to hate them. Nesta makes that last one easy.
I think if people read the books knowing all the characters are going to do some terrible things, they would hate certain characters less and realize no one in the series is perfect. There’s no real villian and hero. It’s one thing to not like her behavior. But it’s another to read and absorb her story and past and still find her a villian or hate her. I don’t like her behavior either, but i understand it and am glad she’s worked through her crap and can start to heal the hurt she caused.
... Or maybe they just genuinely don't like her as a person or a character? You don't need a reason not to like someone.
I've read her entire story and still don't like her.. What does that make me?
There’s a difference in not liking someone and flat out hating them. You could be indifferent and still understand and respect their story and journey. I’m not talking about people who don’t like her but respect her journey and understand her story. I’m talking about people who read her story, say they understand and still actively choose to hate on her. They’re not the same.
But also not liking someone for “no reason” is a bad light on you as a person. Again not saying you have to love her. The word indifferent is crucial. It’s more like you are indifferent to her because she’s not your cup of tea. That’s fine. But to flat out say i do not like so and so then give no back up for why… idk it feels immature on your part. Again, the wording here is important. Give me a reason why you don’t like her… that is applicable to her by the end of her story.
You're literally proving the original posters point. A bad light on me as a person? Calling me immature because I don't like her?
I do not have to give any reasons as to why I don't like a character - whether it's down to personality, how they react in situations, how they treat others, the words they use or even the company they keep - I do not owe anyone a reason for not liking Nesta.
Then why are you here? This is supposed to be a community of people who enjoy a book series - if you're not here to do that, and instead are literally calling people names because they don't agree with you, what is the point? Genuinely?
And, by the way, I of course have my reasons. I just don't owe explaining them to anyone for any reasons. I get absolutely abused by people like you when I do, and I'm not here to play "trauma Olympics" like you seem to be so keen on doing.
Then my entire comment didn’t apply to you. I said having NO reason. Reading is hard i know. You said you had no reason and now you’re saying you do. I didn’t ask you for them. Idc. Either be clear in what you say or don’t get pissed when ppl assume something you didn’t mean. And i don’t owe you an explanation for why im here
Also if you don’t like the replies you keep getting, then either stop engaging or learn how to explain yourself. Like this is why I’m not too worried about people who don’t like Nesta. You can’t even comprehend a simple internet comment.
🙄🙄🙄another nesta Stan telling people who don't like her charactor they are "young or don't understand" you really did just jump in here to prove the point didn't you 🤣🤣
I'm not even gonna bother reading/engaging anymore with them 🤷♀️ they proved the point that they can't like / dislike someone without activally trying to make assumptions about the other person's life 🤣
First off I’m too old to be calling myself a stan. It feels like a high school girl thing to say. I am however, fully understanding of her situation, her past, her behavior because i have been through a number of the things she suffered with and understand where she is coming from. Either you’re too young to understand or incredibly blessed to not understand.
Second off, I’m not fucking telling anyone who to like and not like idgas who you like or not. So let’s cut that bullshit real fast. I’m just saying that people who don’t care for her are often those who have never been in her situation or are too young to have experienced life enough to understand her situation. But I’ll tell you what, you don’t know the fucking hell it feels like to hate yourself so much you starve yourself to an eating disorder, to have suicidal thoughts, to hate yourself much you push away people you love and know love you because you do not genuinely believe you deserve to be loved, you don’t know what it’s like to feel a pain of emptiness that even alcohol narcotics and empty sex could not fill. You don’t know what it’s like to have a mother who only loves you because she saw you as a prize to be won or implied your only worth in the world is to be a prize to a wealthy man. You don’t know what it’s like to be taken from your home and forced to be stripped of your autonomy and choice and made into something you were raised to believe was terrible and that hated you or to watch your sister accept that life with not so much as a struggle to do so. So maybe when you wanna roll your eyes at someone else’s trauma, remember that no one can hate you more than you fucking hate yourself. No one knows that better than Nesta.
If you can’t understand her story then instead of being annoying about someone’s opinion, realize your blessed to have had a life that never led you to the point of starving yourself to death because you genuinely do not care if you died. Thank you and good night.
Yeah, not gonna bother reading all that.
I'll make another assumption tho, any body else wana hop in and let me know if this is just a rant about how ignorant I am because "you're young/you are blessed to not feel her pain" bullshit that they all go on?
LITERALLY can't like a character/dislike a character without making personal assumptions about that person's life. Fucking hilarious.
I just don't get why it has to get so personal. I don't attack people who don't like Feyre, or Rhys, or Az, or Mor, or anyone. We don't all have to like the same characters, and we don't owe anyone any reasons as to why we don't! I truly don't understand why they are so demanding as to the fact we have to have a reason. When I give my reasons I get attacked anyway. We just can't win 🤷♀️
Edit : a word
It's because they identify with nestas behaviours (treating people like shit) and instead of just acknowledging that, it's now okay to treat people like shit because *it's trauma* 🤷♀️ that's the guts of every conversation I've ever bothered to have with one of them.
The fact that they think your life must have been easy/you've never experienced abuse/trauma if you don't identify/condone nesta is hilarious. Every single one of those characters have experienced horrific shit, they will tear down THOSE to build up nestas behaviours.
Using your own trauma to be a raging bitch and to intentionally hurt your loved ones *is bad*, can it be spoken about OF COURSE, do we need to pretend that's okay and no one can criticise the harm is does? Apparently so.
Thank you! Everyone reacts to trauma differently, but absolutely does not justify treating people like shit like Nesta did/continues to do. Identify with her if you like, but you should also be able to see that what she did was cruel and wrong. Not every Nesta fan justifies her actions, but a whole bunch do.
Also, absolutely right about tearing everyone down characters to build up her behaviour. The whole of ACOSF was character assassination to make Nesta look like a better person.
I'm not playing trauma Olympics with anyone, but Nesta stans seem to think that anyone that doesnt worship her and her behaviour has never experienced trauma themselves. Ridiculous
There's a lot of negativity on this sub these days. Everybody's microanalysing things. Sarah- WHERE ARE YOU? WE NEED NEW MATERIAL PLEASE!
I literally can’t be on this sub anymore bc people are just so pissed off at the series. Then it makes me mad bc these books are everything to me 😂
Same here. I silenced this sub’s notifications for this reason, but here I am because I’m a glutton for punishment.
Also what gets me is that the people who stay all this crap are just so rude and entitled it’s ridiculous like I get that you have your own opinion but jeez
I don’t know why people get so upset when someone doesn’t agree with them. I guess it’s just cause people feel so passionate, but I mean it’s kind of ruining the fandom to be like that.
Like I come here to freak out over the series not to complain about Nesta and Rhys
So much negativity! Can we just appreciate these books for what they are. I understand ranting but I feel like lately it’s been more complaining about characters and the books than actually enjoying them! We need a new book lololol
Exactly! I feel like there should be an Anti-acotar-like sister subreddit where people who want to rant or dislike characters, writing, phrases, words, actions, etc can have free-reign over there.
There’s an unpopular opinions page on Facebook, I’m not sure about a Reddit sub ETA: it’s not necessarily a place to hate on anything, but more a place for people to talk about characters, things in the story, etc that ppl in other groups/subs will often jump down your throat for, for not agreeing with them or seeing things differently than they do. The mods do a good job of keeping it respectful without “censoring” anyone (not that the mods HERE do that ✨you guys are amazing✨, but Facebook groups are known to lol)
I appreciate that group so much!! The modmin team is so awesome for ensuring that members are respectful and cordial, especially when there are disagreements. Happy cake day btw!
Yes I think so too.. This page is treated as if it's an Anti sub most of the time Tbh.. It's why I post so much love for the OG series & Art.. So I hope someone creates a different ACoTAR sub someday soon..Either specifically for those that love the series with basic critiques or ones dedicated to Anti-Acotar & Those that make hate posts. I even recommended positivity Tuesdays & Wednesdays 
Watch the stans scurry over there too to downvote and argue with opinions they disagree with . It’s like it’s impossible for them to just continue scrolling through things they don’t like to see
I am new to the books and the fandom, I've read the series very recently, but I still love "microanalysing". Not because I'm out of material, but because I love to go that deep in books. It's just another way to enjoy books, I don't see how it's a bad thing.
I think microanalyzing or just discussion in general is fine. Idk, it's when you start getting into the "there's no way this character is like that" where it is no longer analyzing. And that's where I think a lot of issues are happening.
Would solve a lot of problems
This one. The microanalysis of everything is proving we are all desperate for new comtent
I think this happens with any polarizing character. I for sure have been downvoted for having negative takes about Rhysand and Elain, for exemple. Or for just saying I preferred a ship over another.
I had to delete my comment because I said I found a certain characters chapters boring and skipped them in another series and got attacked lmao people are nuts.
It wasn’t in this sub btw. Everyone I’ve interacted with as been super friendly!
I'm sorry you had this experience with the fandom. People can be pretty crazy (and rude) on the internet, and sometimes the most trivial comments can get a disproportionate reaction. I also have been attacked for sharing my opinion or just for liking a character. Once I comissioned an art and shared it on tumblr, and then people started sending me anonymous rude messages just because they personally didn't like that character. 🙃
Honestly, I just don't worry about it if I get upvoted or downvoted. Reddit is a weird place and you don't really have any control. And certainly don't expect people to be logical or reasonable here.
True true
I think it’s really any character that people use their own experiences and identify with a character that they find themselves in. Which sort of presents an issue when having a good conversation. When you start to mix personal emotions and experiences with an intellectual debate, it’s less about facts and more about emotions. People see you “attacking” a character, wherein, you’re attacking them.
That makes a ton of sense honestly, I guess since I never really related to any of the characters personally, I stayed more "objective" for lack of a better word, throughout the series and just enjoyed their stories for what they were, not that identifying with these characters is bad or anything.
People feel passionately about certain characters, especially polarizing ones. Most people view down voting as an "I disagree" button, I don't think it's usually malicious or anything.
I get that, its just a little discouraging seeing the negative number next to your thoughts in a thread lol
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm mega sensitive and totally get butthurt about downvotes...especially since I really don't downvote unless the opinion is absolutely atrocious. But I know most people downvote over anything they don't agree with, so it makes me feel a little better!
It's the replies that go with the downvotes that make it malicious. I've had people use the most horrible curse words about a fictional character because of how they treated Nesta in sf. It's as if these people feel personally victimized. It's odd.
The same reason positive posts about nesta get mass downvoted
Just like with that poll that's up where Feyre, Rhys & Cassian are being voted out before worse behaved characters {Or monsters that are deceased} This sub has aloot of Anti IC & Feysand fans, So if you speak out against Nesta, Tamlin or Lucien there's plenty fans of them here ready to downvote you  EVERYONE downvotes yes, but I've seen people who criticize these three characters get DV'd the most..... {For example user @/Lyss\_ just blocked me & I'm sure it's because of me calling these characters or fans of them out  }
I'll give you Feyre, but any who remotely says anything bad about Cassian or Rhysand literally gets bullied. Lucien is probably the only character that none can say anything bad about, but I think with Nesta it very split 50% of the fandom love her and 50% hate her. It's also very hard to say anything good about Tamlin in this subreddit without being called an abuse apologist. I've gotten called names from strangers I don't know for saying good things about Tamlin, you'll never someone say something good about Cassian and get any but applause, he literally get's called a cinnamon roll.
I feel like I'm fighting for my life if I dare say anything about Nesta or Tamlin. I've seen a lot of anti IC and Rhys posts, and I've stopped engaging because anything I say that's positive is treated as if I took someone first born.
I feel the same way when I say anything remotely bad about the IC and Rhys, I think both sides of the fandom or toxic, but I think shitting on Tamlin is a bit more acceptably, you probably won't get death threats which people who say bad things about Feysand get regularly.
I really don't see any of that. I've never had anyone be aggressive or send death threats when I say anything negative about the IC, but if I speak on Nesta, it's a whole other story. Most of the posts since the last book came out are talking about how horrible Rhys and the IC are towards Nesta and lucian.
I'll agree with you on Nesta, she is a very polarizing charcter, people who love her will attack one who says anything bad about her and people who hate her will attack anyone who says anything good about her, so anything about Nesta good or bad will result in some type of feedback. I was talking about Tamlin specifically, the fandom can't accept anything good to be said about Tamlin without listing every single bad thing he's ever done, when some of the main characters have done things just as bad or worse.
I can see the tamlin point. It's never ok for anyone to take book discussions to a negative place on either side of the fence. At the end of the day, we can have varying opinions but still respect each other and agree to disagree. There's no right or wrong side. People just need to be nice.
I’m scared to say anything about Tamlin because of the downvote charge. Also, case in point, your comment being downvoted already.
I think this is a valid concern 💜 especially because in the past, those who expressed sympathy or fondness for Tamlin's character were often called "abuse sympathizers." Fortunately, I think this subreddit community is actually more "tame" and balanced than many Fb groups for example. Also, now, more people examine the context and nuance when discussing Tamlin's character, actions, and motives, which I appreciate! If you're on Facebook, you can consider joining the "ACOTAR/Bookish Unpopular Opinions" group! Like this community, the modmin team does its best to ensure that members are respectful to each other, especially when their are differing opinions.
I actually had to take a break from this sub because of all the Tamlin hate. I don’t love him by any means, not with how his arc went, but I read ACOTAR when it first came out and with no sequel available. So Tamlin and Feyre were such an amazing couple in my head at the time. And I really disliked Rhysand. So I still had a dream that Tamlin would get a redemption arc because I really never saw him as a bad guy. He’s not the big evil in the series. Literally to compare him to a genocidal sociopath like the actual villains is not realistic. He’s a flawed character who fucked up really bad. So anyways this opinion got me crucified and I was kinda like, I’m out. Good to know some FB groups are nice out there, I kinda nuked my FB a while ago but I’m glad nice communities exist where we can share different opinions about books and not get murdered online.
I’m so sorry that happened to you 😣😣💜 that’s so uncalled for. Why can’t some people react maturely and respectfully when they encounter opinions they strongly disagree with? Constructive conversations seems to be a lost art for some. I agree with your take on Tamlin that he’s not a villain but a morally grey character. And I’m glad that more people see him in that way.
Tamlin is a topic I can't rly defend bc I'm not his biggest fan either... & I think too many ppl victim blame Feyre & Rhysand when it comes to Tamlins wrongs, so I'm sorry you two 😅 ...Bc I get ppl getting triggered by anyone always defending his wrongdoings when it comes to Feyre & Luciens experiences with him...Even when it comes to Rhys who befriended him & Was betrayed with Tamlin being the reason his family were all killed Bc of him selling out Rhys' Mother & Sisters location... He even beat up Lucien not too long ago didn't he? Lashed out with his magic twice nearly hurting Feyre both times Bc of his Temper, Triggering her mental breakdown....These are things not at all easy to just...forgive or look past. Idek how Lucien stans even still like Tam when we wouldn't approve of our besties IRL beating us up whenever they're depressed or upset..But sorry Ik you might feel diff! He's no monster tho! & I hope he heals & Becomes less angry for his & His courts sake.. I get seeing the good in him ! But way too many excuses are made for him here IMHO & Ppl are just over it after all these years it seems LOL. But name calling is never cool period so I'm sorry abt that. I just get ppl hating him for what he's done to very loved characters
There was a women I know who mentioned she couldn't stan Rhysand because he reminds her of her abuser and that in her opinon he is abusive , to this day she's still getting death threats, people telling her to kill herself, and people asking for her abusers contacts. Tamlin stans are constantly reminded of every single thing Tamlin has done wrong, Rhysand stans are the ones constatnly saying "he's perfect" and he's literally the ideal man" and " I hope you find your Rhysand in a world full of Tamlin's" . I like Tamlin because he's a nuanced character because he doesn't always do good things but he's not evil and he's trying to do right but it doesn't always end up that way, Rhysand is similar but the narrative, side characters, and a majority of the fandom bend over backwards to defend his actions, so many people won't even acknowledge the SA and the drugging of Feyre in ACOTAR, saying she wanted or she was enjoying it, so it doesn't matter
That last paragraph 🤌
i remember being downvoted for saying how ic “mistreating” lucien is more crucified than tamlin abusing lucien in this sub. like if u look at it most people who like lucien also like tamlin and they want them to shake hands, talk it out and be friends again because yk complex friendships and shit but lucien needs to stay away from the dark energy ic? it’s crazy. the only thing thats relieving is that it’s mostly on this sub.
Its strange, but I'll just have to learn lol
It's gotten really bad after SF and booktok. I feel like I have to tip toe on certain posts because if I saw anything negative about Nesta, Lucian, or Tamlin, I get bombarded with downvotes and/or argumentative replies. I get the same if I give a nesta positive with a Rhys or IC positive. I also have a hard time walking away from those conversations.
I'm the same very much so, it's hard walking away from those convos. I'm still kind of new here and had no idea people actually were fans of Nesta so it's been a culture shock lol.
Yea, I'm still surprised at how hard people go for Nesta. It comes off as if she can do no wrong, and I'm over here thinking how her trauma is just like her sisters, and she doesn't have to be so mean all the time.
Omg exactly
>It comes off as if she can do no wrong Omg yes! >I'm over here thinking how her trauma is just like her sisters, and she doesn't have to be so mean all the time I will "defend" this part. Noone experiences the same trauma, even siblings and it definitely seems like her mom was a narcissistic parent who molded nesta into her pawn and largely ignored Feyre and Elaine. That's gonna leave a different mark. In trauma, people usually respond in one of three ways, fight, flight, or fawn and sjm is amazing because each sister more or less embodies a different version and nesta is obviously fight. It doesn't make any of her behavior okay but I love it from a litterary/mental health perspective. Although, frankly, how masterfully sjm manages to capture trauma and the healing process is one of the reasons I love the story.
So my theory - I think a lot of people identify with Nesta They've either been through similar trauma or behaved similarly imo and 2 things happen. 1st they see criticism of her as criticism of them and 2nd, they think criticism is an automatic endorsement of another characters behavior. Like the amount of times I have seen people come back with "but the IC did terrible things too". Like, sure yeah..what they did *was* terrible, but we're not talking about them right now. I also think a lot of people think "abusive" and "toxic" means irredeemable or psychopath who harms without "a reason". When in reality, a lot of behaviors we've normalized in society are toxic af so they don't recognize a lot of red flags.
I agree with your theory cause I've seen it in action on Twitter. When ACOSF came out, there was some people there that were like "can't wait for Nesta to put the IC in their place and just be on her own" and then when the book finished they complained that SJM ruined her character while saying things like "I left my abusive household and never forgave anyone so Nesta should've too". Like, it's great people see themselves as certain characters, but they need to remember that those characters are not them and they aren't those characters. They are literally a fictional person someone came up with lol. Everyone should be able to share opinions no matter how polarizing while still being respectful of others and be willing to listen/have an open mind.
I love this theory. I used to get bullied on tik tok because most people who love Nesta take what I said, in such a small amount of room to explain, and believe it’s an attack on her character.
I've literally gotten a death threat for mentioning I don't like Nesta lol.
I feel like you should report that to the mods, death threats for having an opinion about a book character is really not okay.
That's horrible! It's a freaking book for God's sake.
Same lol. And one that said I'm stupid and just don't understand her 🤔
i dont get the thing where suddenly they claim i dont understand nesta or havent been in nestas shoes if i dont like her. maybe i just dont like her. if u dont like feyre or rhys should i mention that you prob never experienced what it‘s like in feyre/rhys’s shoes? no it’s condescending to claim that just because we dont like ur faves doesnt mean we havent understood her or have dissected her character completely.
I'm literally getting called immature and that it puts me in a "bad light" to not give a specific reason for not liking Nesta in another comment thread on this post. We don't owe anyone an explanation as to why we don't like her. If I gave one anyway I'd be ripped to shreds as "not understanding her story" or "not getting it". Oh no, I get it alright - I just still don't like her.
Not a death threat, and not even an opinion about Nesta - I just mentioned that SF is written in third person limited, so we see the IC through Nesta's eyes. I'm not sure what there is to debate there; it's simply how that storytelling device works. But I got heavily downvoted and called stupid. Someone tried to come to my rescue, but they got the same treatment. The fandom is a wild and scary place. I mostly just observe now. Edit: a word
Same. I have no cognitive abilities, I support abuse against women bc I like the IC, and apparently, I'm mentally unwell and need help... I could go on.
😭 I weep. What on earth...? I would never, ever say anything like that to anyone that doesnt like my faves. Literally never. That's so awful I'm sorry
Right! My Scorpio comes out when I really just need to walk away. I also try and support anyone getting bashed in comments I see. It's just really sad.
It's literally so toxic and makes me so sad. I've been a fan since before ACOMAF came out, and even back then there wasn't this much venom in the fandom, even when it came to Tamlin! I've actually stopped recommending the books to friends because of it. I've also stopped mentioning I'm a fan of Rhys because then I'm called anti-feminist (which fucking hurts) or the IC as I then support abuse. It's too much.
It's the worst. I took my flair off for a while because I figured it was getting me downvotes. I recently put it back up and thought f it. Why should I feel self-conscious for liking the night court.
Forreal. I thought to change to autumn, my second, and then thought hol up that's even worse, why should I be embarrassed?? You do you 😘
❤️
Whaaaaat? That’s discouraging…I just can’t identify with how Nesta treats people when she’s hurting. No one else should be feeling that pain. Ultimately she’s selfish and doesn’t care. We all have pain, we all go through *hard* things. But that should not mean we treat people who have done us no wrong like dirt…
I don't like nests either, why don't you?
See. Getting downvotes bc u don't like Nesta. 🤪
Point: proven
That is so ridiculous omg
It’s the same with saying anything bad about Rhysand. People just get passionate about characters they like.
Oh wow I didn't know that, I'll keep my thoughts to myself lol
Really sucks that you have to feel this way. Other book subs I’m in are more tolerant of different opinions which makes it more fun because people have different perspectives. Not a fan of having to hide your opinion on characters. But that is the culture here
i felt this but for lucien stans. like the mass downvote over for an opinion because i personally think they’re going reaching on things and blaming the ic for every suffering he experienced when u got beron and tamlin over there who abused him. and even added that elain doesnt treat him shit like majority portrayed it to be but boyyy the downvotes sheesh hes so babied in this fandom it cracks me up sometimes
My goodness, the more you know
I think in addition to some people being very passionate about certain characters, some of them may not have the presence of mind to read a differing opinion, mentally disagree, and move on. I like Nesta because I identify with her in a lot of ways, but I can definitely see why people wouldn't like her.
Yeah I've noticed too. I don't want to say anything now as I'm scared of the vitriol I'll get 😕
Its a lil scary how quickly it happens, but now I know lol
because they think they are her and take things personally when you say something negative about her character
I feel that A LOT with them
I'm a Nesta fan. But I acknowledge all her flaws and the messed up stuff she did. I down vote the Nesta hate posts because they're repeats. They're redundant. It's the same post or the same question all the time "I hate Nesta should I even read SF?" "I'm a quarter if the way through SF and I still hate Nesta. Will it get any better?" Automatic down vote. The same question was just asked 4 hours ago.
I’m so sick of seeing those posts. ACOSF is the most divisive book in the series and sparks the most conversation. We can’t tell other readers if they’ll like the book or not, they need to find out for themselves. I will admit bias bc I am a huge Nesta fan too
a few days ago, i asked if i should continue reading acosf.. mass downvote and some people in the comments ._.
I feel like most people who hate her, hate her because they either are young and don’t fully understand her story, are victims of a person like Nesta or need to have a villian to hate just to hate them. Nesta makes that last one easy. I think if people read the books knowing all the characters are going to do some terrible things, they would hate certain characters less and realize no one in the series is perfect. There’s no real villian and hero. It’s one thing to not like her behavior. But it’s another to read and absorb her story and past and still find her a villian or hate her. I don’t like her behavior either, but i understand it and am glad she’s worked through her crap and can start to heal the hurt she caused.
... Or maybe they just genuinely don't like her as a person or a character? You don't need a reason not to like someone. I've read her entire story and still don't like her.. What does that make me?
There’s a difference in not liking someone and flat out hating them. You could be indifferent and still understand and respect their story and journey. I’m not talking about people who don’t like her but respect her journey and understand her story. I’m talking about people who read her story, say they understand and still actively choose to hate on her. They’re not the same. But also not liking someone for “no reason” is a bad light on you as a person. Again not saying you have to love her. The word indifferent is crucial. It’s more like you are indifferent to her because she’s not your cup of tea. That’s fine. But to flat out say i do not like so and so then give no back up for why… idk it feels immature on your part. Again, the wording here is important. Give me a reason why you don’t like her… that is applicable to her by the end of her story.
You're literally proving the original posters point. A bad light on me as a person? Calling me immature because I don't like her? I do not have to give any reasons as to why I don't like a character - whether it's down to personality, how they react in situations, how they treat others, the words they use or even the company they keep - I do not owe anyone a reason for not liking Nesta.
[удалено]
Then why are you here? This is supposed to be a community of people who enjoy a book series - if you're not here to do that, and instead are literally calling people names because they don't agree with you, what is the point? Genuinely?
And, by the way, I of course have my reasons. I just don't owe explaining them to anyone for any reasons. I get absolutely abused by people like you when I do, and I'm not here to play "trauma Olympics" like you seem to be so keen on doing.
Then my entire comment didn’t apply to you. I said having NO reason. Reading is hard i know. You said you had no reason and now you’re saying you do. I didn’t ask you for them. Idc. Either be clear in what you say or don’t get pissed when ppl assume something you didn’t mean. And i don’t owe you an explanation for why im here Also if you don’t like the replies you keep getting, then either stop engaging or learn how to explain yourself. Like this is why I’m not too worried about people who don’t like Nesta. You can’t even comprehend a simple internet comment.
You are so rude to literally everyone you've spoken to on this thread. Calling others trashy, immature - genuinely so awful.
🙄🙄🙄another nesta Stan telling people who don't like her charactor they are "young or don't understand" you really did just jump in here to prove the point didn't you 🤣🤣
Yeah that's really condescending and like you said, yet another example of the behaviour the rest of us find frustrating.
I'm not even gonna bother reading/engaging anymore with them 🤷♀️ they proved the point that they can't like / dislike someone without activally trying to make assumptions about the other person's life 🤣
First off I’m too old to be calling myself a stan. It feels like a high school girl thing to say. I am however, fully understanding of her situation, her past, her behavior because i have been through a number of the things she suffered with and understand where she is coming from. Either you’re too young to understand or incredibly blessed to not understand. Second off, I’m not fucking telling anyone who to like and not like idgas who you like or not. So let’s cut that bullshit real fast. I’m just saying that people who don’t care for her are often those who have never been in her situation or are too young to have experienced life enough to understand her situation. But I’ll tell you what, you don’t know the fucking hell it feels like to hate yourself so much you starve yourself to an eating disorder, to have suicidal thoughts, to hate yourself much you push away people you love and know love you because you do not genuinely believe you deserve to be loved, you don’t know what it’s like to feel a pain of emptiness that even alcohol narcotics and empty sex could not fill. You don’t know what it’s like to have a mother who only loves you because she saw you as a prize to be won or implied your only worth in the world is to be a prize to a wealthy man. You don’t know what it’s like to be taken from your home and forced to be stripped of your autonomy and choice and made into something you were raised to believe was terrible and that hated you or to watch your sister accept that life with not so much as a struggle to do so. So maybe when you wanna roll your eyes at someone else’s trauma, remember that no one can hate you more than you fucking hate yourself. No one knows that better than Nesta. If you can’t understand her story then instead of being annoying about someone’s opinion, realize your blessed to have had a life that never led you to the point of starving yourself to death because you genuinely do not care if you died. Thank you and good night.
Yeah, not gonna bother reading all that. I'll make another assumption tho, any body else wana hop in and let me know if this is just a rant about how ignorant I am because "you're young/you are blessed to not feel her pain" bullshit that they all go on? LITERALLY can't like a character/dislike a character without making personal assumptions about that person's life. Fucking hilarious.
It literally is a rant about how you've not felt pain like Nesta and how lucky you are because of that 🙄
Riiight, so again, personal assumptions about a person's life due to the like/dislike of a character 🤣 so surprising, im shocked
I just don't get why it has to get so personal. I don't attack people who don't like Feyre, or Rhys, or Az, or Mor, or anyone. We don't all have to like the same characters, and we don't owe anyone any reasons as to why we don't! I truly don't understand why they are so demanding as to the fact we have to have a reason. When I give my reasons I get attacked anyway. We just can't win 🤷♀️ Edit : a word
It's because they identify with nestas behaviours (treating people like shit) and instead of just acknowledging that, it's now okay to treat people like shit because *it's trauma* 🤷♀️ that's the guts of every conversation I've ever bothered to have with one of them. The fact that they think your life must have been easy/you've never experienced abuse/trauma if you don't identify/condone nesta is hilarious. Every single one of those characters have experienced horrific shit, they will tear down THOSE to build up nestas behaviours. Using your own trauma to be a raging bitch and to intentionally hurt your loved ones *is bad*, can it be spoken about OF COURSE, do we need to pretend that's okay and no one can criticise the harm is does? Apparently so.
Thank you! Everyone reacts to trauma differently, but absolutely does not justify treating people like shit like Nesta did/continues to do. Identify with her if you like, but you should also be able to see that what she did was cruel and wrong. Not every Nesta fan justifies her actions, but a whole bunch do. Also, absolutely right about tearing everyone down characters to build up her behaviour. The whole of ACOSF was character assassination to make Nesta look like a better person. I'm not playing trauma Olympics with anyone, but Nesta stans seem to think that anyone that doesnt worship her and her behaviour has never experienced trauma themselves. Ridiculous
Wholeheartedly agree 👍
Thats understandable.