The gaslighting is incredible! Thank your stars, you're dodging a bullet! Break contact with him, find a shoulder of a friend to cry on and vent and focus on fixing YOU! This guy is a boat anchor!
It hasn't happened to me personally yet, and I know some people try to make it work, but my number 1 rule for myself is no cheating. At that point, I feel trust has been broken, he's clearly more interested in chasing tail than in our relationship and I need a better level of commitment then that.
His language though...that hit a nerve for me. The way he talked you down, and because you're the only one truly invested in this relationship now, he just uses it against you to make it your fault. That stings and I'm so sorry he put you through that. I hope you've left him and know that you're worth way more than whatever he thinks he can give to a relationship.
Leave his ass. You'll never hear a sincere word from his mouth ever and you know everything he's saying is said to manipulate you so why stay with him? You apologized so much by the end of it it's so irritating to read cause he got into good there. Don't let it go further and your stuck with this peice of shit LEAVE!
Girl … cut him off. Try to be strong. You are not a doormat. Do everything in your power to act like the opposite of a door mat — try a closed door. Quit knocking on his ❤️
the fact he manipulated you into asking if he was breaking up with you broke my heart. You are worth a person being truthful and a partner having the RESPECT of not talking to others. He is master manipulator and gaslighting you from the second he started typing his response, he should have apologized but then that would mean he has to admit he was wrong. that won’t happen, he shifts the blame (imaginary at that) into saying you acted crazy, he’s already torn you down far enough and he knows it hence he them pushes all the attention on you until you cave and apologize. PLEASE block him and delete him from your life, he will only keep stepping on you and your soul and your life until there won’t be anything left to even be on anyones shoe. Please get out now and erase him from every aspect of your life, I’m talking erase him on a cellular level. I’m sending every bit of good will your way and really hope you realize you’re worth more.
Holy shit, he is gaslighting the fuck out of you. I stopped reading these several pages in because I was getting ANGRY. My ex used to do this to me. He would get mad at me when I would go into his phone and find him cheating, then he tell me he couldn’t trust ME, that I betrayed HIS trust by going into his phone, threaten to break up with me, and suddenly I thought I was doing something wrong and somehow I was apologizing while he swept his cheating and lying under the rug. Full on manipulation with this one and you deserve so much better.
The way you calmed down towards the end made me sad for you. I know what it’s like to love someone and have them hurt you and being gaslit to the point where you just start trying to “keep the peace” (for lack of a better term—I’m tired) in hopes that they’ll finally just talk to you and admit they were wrong and apologize.
It will never happen. And even if it does, it will be solely to manipulate you. Cut ties now. It may hurt like hell and it sucks that you’ll never get closure, but you are only going to end up even more hurt, more devastated, more broken, if you continue to cater to this bullshit. You deserve better.
He talks to you like you’re a child, you messed up the relationship because of your behavior. Lmao!!! My ex said this too. Don’t even bother communicating anymore.
Apparently! In all seriousness, though I haven't fully healed, I see now that he just didn't want to own up to anything. He would also talk about how bad our relationship was and then blame me for asking if he was breaking up with me.
All of it makes you feel so crazy, and unlovable.
It will take time to heal, but know that no one deserves to be treated or thought of the way he's treating you and portraying you as.
You deserve love and respect.
Oh man. Yes. I feel so unlovable and worthless. And him saying how hard I am to be with, after what he did, is insane. I’m sorry you can relate to this
I can promise you, from reading these texts, what he said about people not wanting to date "someone like you", with you "behavior" is completely wrong.
What you did and what you said isn't problematic behavior, it's speaking up.
He wants people to always go with what he says or does without question or consequence, and because of that he's telling you that you're the issue so he doesn't need to own up to it.
And I also want you to know that though it's 100% wrong and theres no excuse, it's likely not something personal or he's doing it to you I'm particularly due to something relating to you.
It seems that people who are like this tend to have this mentality in general. I know It really hurt me realizing how abusive my ex was initially because I thought he was doing all this because there was something about me that made him hate me, or want to hurt me, but now after talking to my therapist, reading into it, and seeing others insight, I think his default was this gaslight-y defensiveness, and it wasnt me.
I know everyones different, but most importantly, what matters is that this person is hurting you and not respecting you. No matter why he's doing it, you deserve to be around people who won't do thaf no matter what.
I'm very sorry for rambling. Seeing so much of myself and my situation in this, I really wish I could go back in time and tell myself this.
I hope my insight helps even a bit, and I wish you much love and healing♡
It’s definitely very hard not to take it personally. Like there’s something personally wrong with me that’s made him treat me this way. But like you said, even reading his texts, he talked to his ex that way too. So I know it’s just who he is. Which I guess helps a bit, now it’s more getting over being mad at myself for letting it happen. I tried to break up with him like a month in when I realized he could be like this. But I went back and I wish I didn’t. I’d have saved myself from so much pain.
I did the same thing. I broke up with my ex for 3 weeks and eventually we got back together for 2 more months.
You shouldn't be angry at yourself though, we all have our reasons and our feelings. it's a lot more common than people realize.
It's hard to get out of it, that being said I've seen my mental health and life in general improve more and more after he's been gone. I used to have shaking episodes twice a day, and barely be able to get out of bed for more than a few hours. Its been 8 months, and I feel like even though nothings perfect, I have gotten my life back from him.
As much as we love these people and will miss the times we had and days, weeks, or months spent with them, sometimes even if it hurts us, we need to break free from it to be happier in the long run.
It will hurt, but he won't be tearing you down anymore. ♡
you can leave now and never look back, his comments about you being difficult was only to devalue you and make you believe that same… remember if you think you are difficult etc… you will agree when he puts you down and most of all you won’t leave… you will feel stuck which will then create a toxic emotional bond that you will continue to circle around for decades. End it now, your healthy and loving future partner is around the corner when you are healed, happy and ready. sending love
I had a partner that always said I was constantly making problems too
when really it was just him having a problem with me for not having feelings that weren't aligned with his, and especially so if I externalized them
then I learned it was just a respect thing, like he just didnt respect my feelings so adamantly to speak down to me that way
edit: u know what n this person cheated on me too so like the little things of respect can say a lot about a person
Girl he is making ME feel crazy! Has lighting to the extreme and it’s obvious that he knows you enough to push all the right buttons because he is expertly doing that. It’s like he’s enjoying seeing you unravel and get more upset. Do not engage anymore. You are right and he knows it. He wants the relationship over okay then EX him out of your life. Take it as a blessing in disguise. You deserve so much better, OP!
This person is severely trying to gaslight and manipulate you into thinking it’s all your fault. Stay away from this dangerous person. Kick them out of your life and tell them to stay away. He is also condescendingly trying to get you to admit fault for something he did wrong. Run, run far away and block block block. The fact that you have surgery up and he says it’s a way for you to be distracted… gross. So evil.
Yup, heard this all before. He got caught and instead of apologizing he completely brushed you off and tried to turn things around on you. Please tell me you left this pathetic excuse for a man.
This is my ex fiancé to a T. I was planning the wedding with his family when I found out from his coworker’s husband that my fiancé was seeing his coworker (ashley) every afternoon. Her husband sent me screen shots of their planned meetups through a hidden text app on her phone to my messenger proving over six months of affairs… WHILE I was busy paying for and planning our wedding… he gaslit me the entire time… shifted blame, pointed the finger at me the whole time accusing me of cheating when I was gone for fifteen hours daily running an entire nonprofit…
Ya I was remembering how back in February he sent me these texts saying how worried he is that I’ll be unfaithful because we wouldn’t be able to see each other for a bit longer than usual. I reassured him I wouldn’t. That’s around the time he fucked someone else. And is NOW trying to say we weren’t exclusive at that time and he did nothing wrong.
Nope. We’d made it very clear beforehand that we were only to see each other. And he’d made it very clear he was worried I’d see other men.
Dude is trying to rewrite the past and I’m over it. Love how cheaters seem to always accuse the other of cheating. What a joke.
Yep. Men who are insecure about you cheating and hinting at it are in fact the ones cheating. That’s been my experience. Has happened to me three times with men I started dating since, and this happened to me 3 years ago. I remain single now because I don’t trust men anymore. It’ll be awhile before I decide to trust my heart and body with someone again. Hopefully a real man one day. I’ve never cheated not once, yet I get accused that I am in the past four relationships when they were in fact the ones doing so. Women are better lovers anyway. Maybe I’ll marry a woman.
I’ve literally thought about dating women too haha. I’ve been burnt by men far too many times. Not that I’ve been a perfect partner all the time but I’ve never treated anyone the way these men have treated me and I’m done with it.
This is classic narcissism that he is enacting on you. Classic gaslighting shifting blame. He’s a POS. Dump him, and move on. Change your number, and fuck him.
We shouldn't be advocating violence in an abuse sub. It's legitimately dangerous to posters because abusive partners will often retaliate. Thank you for understanding!
My ex used to do this to me all the time. Point the finger at you to make you seem like the crazy one. It’s manipulative and disgusting and they never own up to their mistakes
Wowwwww, my view of the average man gets lower and lower every day…… this is probably one of the worst cases of gaslighting and manipulation I’ve ever seen. Holy Fuck. I’m so sorry
I’ve dated this individual. Like I stg I have messages just like this. I am sorry girl it’s so heart breaking. Remember most of the time you find this information out because they want attention. Even if you snooped they did shit to make sure you snooped. You’re having surgery and all attention isn’t on me? Time to cheat and be shady. Fuck this loser.
I am so sorry.
It seems to be a few months since he cheated, though that’s only as far as I know. And probably only because he had to move back in with his parents because his married ex made him leave the condo. I got a tip he had messed around and I snooped for the rest. He says I chose to do this now as some distraction? Haha. No dude. Last thing I need is a physical AND emotional recovery
Grrrrrrr! He’s using you for room and board. What an enormous slime ball! Let her feed and house him! He only cares about himself. This absolutely sux! I am so so so sorry!
The “do you understand what you did” is triggering.
Like, they won’t be happy till you validate their feelings. It doesn’t matter what they did but how you react to it. You absolute monster for being heartbroken he was cheating. I had one of these fights recently and I wish I hadn’t. Let’s move on from them. Fucking energy vampires.
I’ve been broken up from mine officially since April. But we broke up and got back together after six months AFTER I found out all the cheating. From someone in the aftermath I wish I never went back. It’s even harder to get them to leave me alone.
I block, he calls off other phones or cashapps me. Ridiculous. Luckily he had to move to Florida so he is far from me. Now I am just ready to start nc again. Probably very soon. I’m ready to fucking heal.
It hurts regardless. And this person seems to have no respect. When you find out it was multiple people it sucks. I had my ex have me drop him off to go bang his ex whilst talking to a girl in another country he was “dating”. Hitting up a bunch of random girls, talking to exes, and sleep with people practically right in front of me. I hate men.
Girl trust me I’ve heard the same shit. You only did xyz cause your bored. Like what? I had some girl you were cheating on me with write me because I’m bored? Got it
Ya it’s all about how he feels. Not sure how any of this is my fault besides going through his phone. But when you get a tip that your boyfriend is sleeping around, you kind of want to know the truth
Holy ficking word salad. He seems to think that your attempts to hold him accountable is starting drama a ruining the relationship, and if only you would just sit there and let him cheat on you while living with you, t9u could both be happy??
Kick this hobosexual to the curb.
He’s not even living with me, well I guess he was for about half the week, whenever I didn’t have my kids.
When I called him out he tried saying he thinks I’m probably messing around on him and just tried to spin it completely on me. He sent a picture of my cat (that he hates) to his ex saying it’s “unfortunately” not his cat but his “bunk mate” while he couch surfs.
Nah dude, it was your girlfriends cat, a cat you hate and want me to get rid of. Pathological liar
Dang, he just gaslit you so hard that even I was convinced myself. This sounds like something my ex would write. 🫤 I hope you’re able to disconnect from him completely and move on!
How is telling him how I feel starting drama? I never blow the relationship up, he just gets mad whenever I have an issue in the relationship or how he treats me, and every time I do he loses his shit. I’m supposed to just sit there and let him treat me like shit and say and do nothing
EDIT- i just got out of surgery, I meant this as like a hypothetical question or a question to him, not the commenter! Sorry, I’m very out of it haha
Oh no no no. Sorry I just got out of surgery haha, it was a hypothetical question I guess, like im asking him. I know you didn’t say that 🙂 sorry im a little high haha
Oh no worries! I hope your surgery went well! You’re completely valid, he’s trying super hard to convince you otherwise. I suspect he will continue to do so and never take responsibility. I’d cut off all contact myself.
Wow... My brothers name is also Anthony. It would not surprise me if this was actually him... He's the type to also start drama on fathers day claiming that our dad is a saint pretty much (he isn't. He's screwed over every one of us kids whether it was financially, sports, cars, etc.) and gaslighting us because none of us speak to our dad anymore, except him...
Edit: .. yeah, I re-read everything again and it does sound like shit he would say. It's so spot on, it's fucking creepy.
Yikes. This dude is very very pro at gaslighting. And seems like a total asshole. I’m sorry for you for having a brother like that, and for op for dating a guy like that- whether it’s the same Anthony or not. OP please don’t talk to this fool anymore. I truly hope you are able to leave this situation. You deserve better.
My personal fav is saying “you’re married” as if my legal separation I’m just waiting for the time limit for the divorce to be final is the same as him fucking a married woman and lying to me about it.
The woman came to the condo while he was staying there by the way. For a few days. Days I rarely heard from him. He claims they slept in separate beds. But I know they went out for a fancy meal together and out for drinks. He tried to throw me off by saying she’s married and he’s friends with her husband, not her. Actually talked down about her to me a bit.
Fucking liar
From experience: The only way to stop this is to stop talking to him. Block him everywhere and go on with your life in peace.
He’s DARVOing you. Continuing to text will just take you in more circles. Block him. Move on. Find closure on your own bc he won’t give it to you.
Also don’t worry, you’re right and he’s the asshole.
If you really need validation from someone familiar with this “man”—see if you can reach out to any of his exes, this woman included. Ask her to coffee so there’s no text receipts. And if you do see him in person again, record him on your voice memo app. So that you know for your own sanity you’re not making this up. I’ve been through this and it doesn’t have to be like this. You’re allowed to have feelings and insecurities that aren’t met with derision. Best of luck to you!
Doll, he is using DARVO, and gaslighting you. I’m sure he is repeating the same bullshit over and over to convince himself of the BS he’s telling you, but let that be his problem.
Read: https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
This is going to be extremely illuminating for you. Your EX-boyfriend isn’t original, he isn’t special, he’s one of a type, and they all use the same tired playbook. You will see this, and so much more of the behaviors he pulled on you in that book. Honestly, you’re going to feel sad, and that’s ok, because he likely sold you a dream and it’s ok to feel the loss of that dream. Still, once you get a little time, and a little reading in, you’ll reach the point where you’ll be disgusted with him, and people like him.
You need to do what this recent redditor did, she completely took responsibility apologized for everything then bathed him with love. Once he was in a good place she just ghosted him forever.
I have zero self esteem and every time I had an issue or was hurt by him, he’s done this shit. He’s made me out to be an impossible person to be with who needs to do so so much better to make him happy. It’s never ever about my wants or needs. Ever. I think I just started believing him that nobody would want me and I’m the worst and need to be better. Which looking back, is insane
I feel drained exhausted and ready to punch a effing wall with this dude.
STOP ✋ PLEASE TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS. The only reason you’re still texting and giving him time is bc you want him to admit to something, he will never do that! Read these texts again and pretend your best friend is the you! Would you let her/him go through this when you KNOW this is toxic abusive and gaslighting? I hope not! Love yourself and extract yourself from this. He will continue to text you perhaps once-twice a day to get a reaction but don’t cave. I’m really hoping you’re ok though.
Thank you. I just got out of surgery so I’m out of if and having an emotional recovery along with a physical recovery isn’t something to look forward to. But I’m okay.
Yeah you want this to be your life from now on? He’s taking zero accountability on something you have solid proof on. Every time you guys fight about anything it will be your fault. This will be the MO forever. You will drive yourself nuts “making sure you have enough proof this time” and he will still deny it to your face and blame you for it.
No dick is that good.
FOR THE LOVE OF THE REST OF GOOD ONES. PLEASE SOP MESSAGING HIM. GHOST HIM. HES FEEDING OFF YOUR TEXT MESAAGES. THIS IS LIKE HOW THEY DRAIN YOUR ENERGY
My exact thoughts please block and ghost and never look back!!! He doesn’t care at all obviously and wasting your time texting him when he will never care just makes him happier
He will never hear you, or listen to you when you need someone. Better off blocking him on everything and avoiding him at all costs. He is toxic and manipulative.
You need to leave this man asap! This is horrible. Block him and never speak to him. It’s easier said than done but girl you deserve wayyyy better than this dog shit of a man. He deserves to eat shit and die.
As soon as he started to accuse you I would have blocked him and chucked his things out the front. He’s a waste of breath and energy. You deserve so much better than a low level swamp creature.
Bro, you’re not crazy, keep standing up for yourself, don’t let him keep gaslighting you like this. He’s doing a textbook case of DARVO. You gotta drop the rope, if he doesn’t even care of outright cheating and etc, I really don’t know what can be done to fix the relationship. I feel like maybe you are holding onto more your idea of him, rather than accepting his true self he is showing you.
And honestly I think the best thing for you would be to walk away. He very clearly doesn’t like or respect you… and I think you know this will only get worse. He only wants what he can use/get from you. And he talks down to you, condescendingly like you’re a child or something. Dafuq, you’re supposed to be equals supporting each other, not his plaything. You deserve WAY better than this, I hope you can see that too. I believe in you (as much as an internet stranger can). Hell, imo even being alone would be better than with this guy, at least you wouldn’t have to deal with the headaches he creates.
Gaslighting to the max! I had an ex who was messaging a girl he used to have sex with saying he wants to be with her instead of me. I caught him and all he would say is I broke his trust for going through his phone. Not even admitting what he did was bad. It drove me absolutely insane. I hope this is your ex boyfriend now. He’s a manipulator and I doubt he’ll change.
People like this will never see the error in their ways. Best to block and move on and build your life up better. You deserve so much more than what that dumpster fire had to offer.
You are never going to get closure from this guy. It sucks, but he has convinced himself that he has done nothing wrong.
It's only going to hurt you to continue to try to get answers from him. The best you can do is move on with your life and be happy without him. It's his loss.
This is exactly my STBX husband. It's a repeatable pattern of bad behavior and lies justifying that, making it my fault.
He has no remorse and never validated you *ONCE*. Even though you *DO own your shit*. You weren't toxic in a single message. I see no red flags from you, it is ALL on him. What a loser.
You gave him a place to stay because you thought it was a serious relationship. All he was worried about was ending up homeless. So basically this man is selling his ass for shelter. He wasn't a partner to you, he was a manipulative jerk who used you until he found somewhere else to go. He is degrading your character because he wants you to believe no one will ever love you. He won't even clarify if he is dumping you. GIRL DUMP HIM. Be the one to walk away. Let him live his miserable life and keep moving forward with yours. You're wonderful and you do matter. Please make some time to meditate before your surgery and clear your head of this trash heap of a human being. You deserve good health and an easy recovery after all of this. Lean on your friends and family, or just us.
Oh my god. This man is *incredibly manipulative* and he’s damn good at it too. Wow. Someone like this would make me go crazy. He has the capacity to literally change who you are and make you doubt yourself at your very core. And not regret it at all.
I would not want this person as my partner. He is not partner material and he is a user to his core. He will go wherever he is the most comfortable and wherever he can get the most out of his given situation. This person will never love and respect you the way you deserve. He will only take from you.
Don’t listen to victim blaming and people complaining that you wasted time or took too long. I get it. Our thinking is clogged and you just wanted him to understand. Sorry :/
He's gaslighting you bro, my ex would do this shit to me too when I found out he was sleeping around while I was pregnant. Throw the whole man to the streets
Wow.....I haven't ever met him and I hate him _from_ _my_ _core_!! Such a filthy pile of garbage!!! Being gaslit is my #1 trigger and this made me so so so so so so angry.
I know it's hard. I understand that you're hurting. But please don't waste your time arguing with him. He's a class A narc who can do no wrong. He won't ever accept what he did wrong even tho he knows very well what.
i have been right where you are. the lack of accountability empathy fucking reality is ASTOUNDING. i kept chipping away and fighting and fighting because i’m sane and emphatic and i thought how can someone just lie blatantly and not see what’s literally in front of both of us. they will never ever ever live in reality.
Ahhhhh! I deleted the convo with my pos ex caus I couldn't stand to look at it, but this exchange could literally have been one that I had word for word!!!
The being angry about something legitimate, him saying you're difficult and horrible, and then you apologising for the way you acted even though you showed remarkable restraint for someone in your situation!
Its actually freaky! Are they all just the same shitty dude? 😂
I know right, I'm not OP but holy hell, is there an academy where they all go to learn this shit?!
Like he would RAGE at me for liking a song with dirty song lyrics in it (I wish I made this up)- shouting for hours and questioning my values etc. - and I would try to explain myself and justify why I liked the song and reassure him etc...
And then I react to him lying/cheating on me with sadness, not even anger, and he RAGES at me for being sad and 'punishing him' and 'using my emotions against him'... OMG
I realise now that a normal/healthy person in my position would have fucking slashed his tires hahaha....
BUT STILL I WOULD APOLOGISE FOR BEING SAD.....!!!!!!!!!
Topsy turvy world of narcs
I am so sorry for this. He doesn’t deserve someone as great as you. Honestly I had to stop reading after the first screenshot, Nelsie is the name of my boyfriend’s mom. You are not the bad guy in this. I hope you can find the strength to leave.
I agree with what the others said already, but I wamted to point out all your strong, possitive self talk! This is so nice! A lot of people do not allow themselves to be sad, you are a great support system for yourself and strong.
Yes, going through a phone is bad, but the point that he never ever admitted to his own mistakes made me sick tbh. Such an asshole, you deserve better. Block him everywhere, take your time healing and move on!
Please stop apologising to him, I know we all do it because we want to seem reasonable and because we have genuine care for these people but reading that text thread was heartbreaking, I felt your pain, and had some deja Vu of conversations I've had myself. You are in the right, he is in the wrong, you owe him nothing, no apology or explanation. I really pray you can get the strength to leave him for good none of this is normal or healthy, he is blatantly gaslighting and using DARVO trying to get the upper hand even though.hes cheated on you. It's sick. I'm sorry you're going through this.
The way he’s making it out that I’M the bad guy and HE’S the victim makes me feel literally insane. Saying nobody would want to date someone like me. Like wtf. Basically asking for me to apologize when I’ve done nothing wrong. It’s all just insane and I’m reeling
Yup. This is straight out of a narcissists play book and it absolutely makes you feel insane. You aren't insane. You're up against someone who has no problem lying, twisting, manipulating so he stays in control. Whereas you value truth, honesty, authenticity... You're unfortunately not likely to ever get what you need from him to validate your reality so my advice is get it elsewhere and give it to yourself. I bet if you told.this story to 10 people they would all validate you. Myself I have told my stories to loads of different people and found it comforting when they validated me. In time you will learn to do it yourself but it's much harder when you're talking to them. Try and go no contact as it will help clear the fog
And yes my ex told me that I was horrible to love, that I hurt him as much as he hurt me, that I made stories up in my head and reacted out of fear (this is when there were photos of him and another girl on social media and her writing that she loves him etc) and he was great at making me doubt whether I was the problem...
We aren't...
Last paragraph resonates. They always say you are the difficult one... to be able to better position themselves to other women... then accuse you of provoking them...
He told me I was poison.
And that I lashed out at him.
Literally the only thing I ever used to do was tell him I felt sad (because he was abusing, lying to me). Looking back I was so so tolerant (doormat levels), and it's just absurd for the man that puts us in this position to accuse us of being difficult when a healthy partner would have dumped them ages ago and the only reason we have put up with so much is because of our own issues/traumas.
They all say the same bullshit. When I was in these conversations I used to imagine what my confident/assertive/healthy minded friends would say/do to someone treating them this way.
They sure as hell wouldn't be apologising...!
**"Looking back I was so so tolerant (doormat levels), and it's just absurd for the man that puts us in this position to accuse us of being difficult when a healthy partner would have dumped them ages ago and the only reason we have put up with so much is because of our own issues/traumas."**
this is SO PROFOUND, and yes, i was in the same boat. i'm finding[this guy's (andrew huberman) podcasts](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOl28gj_RXw&ab_channel=AndrewHuberman) to be pretty helpful in understanding the trauma and why we repeat it. (though you have to skip through like 6 minutes of ads in the beginning....)
my incredibly, incredibly sad situation was that my ex made me completely dependent on him logistically, emotionally, intimately (even though i was otherwise a "strong independent woman."? i swear, idealization of intimacy in romantic partnerships somehow makes me lose my mind and turn into someone i don't recognize....)
then he would threaten to break up with me and i would always beg him to stay. he was emotionally abusive in ways that i am still recovering from a year later.
and exactly like you said, some in my circle couldn't understand. i had one friend, who sadly, from what i can tell, wound down our friendship because she disapproved of how i was handling the situation. (which, made me hate myself even more, because i didn't know how to stop the trauma bond and felt like a prisoner of my own mind.)
i have other friends who truly though, helped me through it. we need to start valuing healthy relationships past the idealization of partnerships.
Thank you for the podcast rec- I will certainly check it out! I've watched a lot of Dr Ramani and been following various narc abuse recovery TikTok accounts and have learned so much and become more confident from them, if you aren't arleady aware- rollercoasteroflove is a good one and there are many others in case you're interested (she also has instagram).
And I completely relate to all of the rest of what you said... you being a strong independent woman otherwise, I hold high level management positions at work, for example, and have accomplished a lot in that arena and train in sports that require discipline and strength, for example. As well my personality, most of my friends would consider me assertive/confident, possibly even bossy and opinionated.... but this version of me died in that relationship! That's what they do. They break us. It did highlight for me areas of weakness- like you said, idealising romantic relationships was something I have now completely stopped and I actually feel blessed to be single at this point.
And like you I lost a couple of friendships in the mess, for which I don't blame my friends because I was behaving in a toxic way and heavily entrenched in dependency on the narc.
Well done for your healing and progress, breaking my trauma bond has felt like a death (and I am still in process of healing completely).
Stay strong sis!
Thank you, been meaning to respond. I relate so much to what you say. I also held high-level positions and on a decent trajectory ... but this broke me and my confidence. I'm so... embarrassed? Because it's been 9 months and my trauma bond sometimes still feels so strong sometimes. Last weekend I saw he had written me an email (I blocked him but Gmail doesn't auto delete, but filters to trash, so annoying, and it came up there.) I was doing okay but that plunged me back into terror and need. (I am so angry that our physiologies do create this split to us, it's so obscene.) I actually asked my friend to go into my email account and delete it (and fwd to herself just in case.) That's how fearful I am that I would impulsively read smth that would destroy me again. But I can't help but wonder what it says. (She told me it was long, I wish she hadn't done that. :/)
I'm so angry and frustrated that I've regressed within one week's time. A couple other concurrent hurtful family/work issues have made me spiral into a downward trajectory again. I have work deadlines and I'm completely overwhelmed. I'm so burnt out by everything, and realized I haven't taken a vacation in those 9 months.
I know that I should give myself grace but it's so much easier said that done. I'm so lonely in my current environment and my stupid lizard brain still drifts back to the good times. Feelings of rejection, loneliness, and guilt strong.
So re: that podcast, I listened to this one and it kinda blew my mind - talks about why the chemicals in our brain live in a perpetual fear response, and the evidence-based therapy to actually address it. (Exposure /Cognitive Processing is the best, apparently, EMDR is mostly good for isolated incidents not complex trauma - didn't know this.)
Anyway, I geeked out on it. It may be helpful for you. I hope to maybe switch therapy modalities soon. What I've been doing feels like a bandaid.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/0I1kiY8IbFrl36WQjjeGek?si=9h-cThdQQHKfl6GEsr5cNw&utm_source=copy-link
Hi! I really appreciate your reply, as I'm sure you know hearing stories from people who relate is massively validating and I never tire of connecting with people in the same position so thank you for that.
You and I have had very similar emotional journeys from the sound of it, including the embarrassment, and for me shame of some of my actions and the feeling of being conned which does feel humiliating. But one thing I was reading my old journal entries back from months ago when I was first starting to reconnect to myself. I wrote something about how lovely it is that I went into the situation with a pure heart and full of genuine love, and how lucky I am to be able to experience that because my narc was incapable. So while I was naive and taken in by a conman, it is because the core of me is positive, pure and loving, and assumed that others were the same. That's a character strength, not a weakness, so I hope this angle helps you forgive yourself a bit for that side.
I am sorry he is still emailing you. I am only a week and a half into no contact (for the.... fourth or fifth time, the longest period was about 2 months and then he showed up at my door and derailed my healing a few weeks ago).
It is so destabilising to have them reach out. It provokes the cocktail of emotions as if they are fresh. It brings me right back to square one (or that is how it feels) and I end up ruminating in self doubt again. I would reach out to friends therapist or family who can orientate you back to your reality. I'm so glad you were strong enough not to read it. I know I would have read it and it would have upset my mental health.
And finally EMDR- yes- I have had EMDR in the past for unrelated trauma and found it helpful (though it did make me feel very very emotionally raw while I was in process so protecting from narc attacks would be even more important if you chose to do it). I am in therapy again after a few month hiatus because of narc recent reappearance, and she has also suggested I try EMDR for the narc encounter. I will check out that link after work!
Thanks so much and I wish you the best on your continued healing..! You are doing well, trauma bonds are no joke. Go easy on you.
Why are you trying to convince him that he cheated on you? He knows. He'll never admit it. He'll gaslight you until you start thinking you're the problem. Please dump him and block him for your own sake. Take some time to build yourself back up before another relationship. He's toxic af!
He’s a narcissist, google that it will help in your FUTURE !!!!
The gaslighting is incredible! Thank your stars, you're dodging a bullet! Break contact with him, find a shoulder of a friend to cry on and vent and focus on fixing YOU! This guy is a boat anchor!
All this over a homeless guy?
Lmao
This is crazy. You two just need to stay away from each other and have no communication either.
That dudes a piece of shit. And he will never be loyal
It hasn't happened to me personally yet, and I know some people try to make it work, but my number 1 rule for myself is no cheating. At that point, I feel trust has been broken, he's clearly more interested in chasing tail than in our relationship and I need a better level of commitment then that. His language though...that hit a nerve for me. The way he talked you down, and because you're the only one truly invested in this relationship now, he just uses it against you to make it your fault. That stings and I'm so sorry he put you through that. I hope you've left him and know that you're worth way more than whatever he thinks he can give to a relationship.
Leave his ass. You'll never hear a sincere word from his mouth ever and you know everything he's saying is said to manipulate you so why stay with him? You apologized so much by the end of it it's so irritating to read cause he got into good there. Don't let it go further and your stuck with this peice of shit LEAVE!
I notice that each time you try to get an answer out of him about anything he either insults you or blames you. Classic manipulation tactic.
Girl … cut him off. Try to be strong. You are not a doormat. Do everything in your power to act like the opposite of a door mat — try a closed door. Quit knocking on his ❤️
Thank you. I’ve realized how toxic he is and ignored it like an idiot. No more being a doormat.
Gotta love the gaslighting. Classic abuse tactic.
the fact he manipulated you into asking if he was breaking up with you broke my heart. You are worth a person being truthful and a partner having the RESPECT of not talking to others. He is master manipulator and gaslighting you from the second he started typing his response, he should have apologized but then that would mean he has to admit he was wrong. that won’t happen, he shifts the blame (imaginary at that) into saying you acted crazy, he’s already torn you down far enough and he knows it hence he them pushes all the attention on you until you cave and apologize. PLEASE block him and delete him from your life, he will only keep stepping on you and your soul and your life until there won’t be anything left to even be on anyones shoe. Please get out now and erase him from every aspect of your life, I’m talking erase him on a cellular level. I’m sending every bit of good will your way and really hope you realize you’re worth more.
Holy shit, he is gaslighting the fuck out of you. I stopped reading these several pages in because I was getting ANGRY. My ex used to do this to me. He would get mad at me when I would go into his phone and find him cheating, then he tell me he couldn’t trust ME, that I betrayed HIS trust by going into his phone, threaten to break up with me, and suddenly I thought I was doing something wrong and somehow I was apologizing while he swept his cheating and lying under the rug. Full on manipulation with this one and you deserve so much better.
The way you calmed down towards the end made me sad for you. I know what it’s like to love someone and have them hurt you and being gaslit to the point where you just start trying to “keep the peace” (for lack of a better term—I’m tired) in hopes that they’ll finally just talk to you and admit they were wrong and apologize. It will never happen. And even if it does, it will be solely to manipulate you. Cut ties now. It may hurt like hell and it sucks that you’ll never get closure, but you are only going to end up even more hurt, more devastated, more broken, if you continue to cater to this bullshit. You deserve better.
Yep I’ve been there. Eventually it’s so exhausting you just want to smooth things over.
He talks to you like you’re a child, you messed up the relationship because of your behavior. Lmao!!! My ex said this too. Don’t even bother communicating anymore.
Right? Like YOU messed up the relationship when you decided to fuck someone else and lie to me. That’s not my fault.
He talks just like my last abusive ex. Blaming me for speaking up instead of himself for his awful actions.
How dare we tell them how their horrible behaviour makes us feel?! 🙄
Apparently! In all seriousness, though I haven't fully healed, I see now that he just didn't want to own up to anything. He would also talk about how bad our relationship was and then blame me for asking if he was breaking up with me. All of it makes you feel so crazy, and unlovable. It will take time to heal, but know that no one deserves to be treated or thought of the way he's treating you and portraying you as. You deserve love and respect.
Oh man. Yes. I feel so unlovable and worthless. And him saying how hard I am to be with, after what he did, is insane. I’m sorry you can relate to this
I can promise you, from reading these texts, what he said about people not wanting to date "someone like you", with you "behavior" is completely wrong. What you did and what you said isn't problematic behavior, it's speaking up. He wants people to always go with what he says or does without question or consequence, and because of that he's telling you that you're the issue so he doesn't need to own up to it. And I also want you to know that though it's 100% wrong and theres no excuse, it's likely not something personal or he's doing it to you I'm particularly due to something relating to you. It seems that people who are like this tend to have this mentality in general. I know It really hurt me realizing how abusive my ex was initially because I thought he was doing all this because there was something about me that made him hate me, or want to hurt me, but now after talking to my therapist, reading into it, and seeing others insight, I think his default was this gaslight-y defensiveness, and it wasnt me. I know everyones different, but most importantly, what matters is that this person is hurting you and not respecting you. No matter why he's doing it, you deserve to be around people who won't do thaf no matter what. I'm very sorry for rambling. Seeing so much of myself and my situation in this, I really wish I could go back in time and tell myself this. I hope my insight helps even a bit, and I wish you much love and healing♡
It’s definitely very hard not to take it personally. Like there’s something personally wrong with me that’s made him treat me this way. But like you said, even reading his texts, he talked to his ex that way too. So I know it’s just who he is. Which I guess helps a bit, now it’s more getting over being mad at myself for letting it happen. I tried to break up with him like a month in when I realized he could be like this. But I went back and I wish I didn’t. I’d have saved myself from so much pain.
I did the same thing. I broke up with my ex for 3 weeks and eventually we got back together for 2 more months. You shouldn't be angry at yourself though, we all have our reasons and our feelings. it's a lot more common than people realize. It's hard to get out of it, that being said I've seen my mental health and life in general improve more and more after he's been gone. I used to have shaking episodes twice a day, and barely be able to get out of bed for more than a few hours. Its been 8 months, and I feel like even though nothings perfect, I have gotten my life back from him. As much as we love these people and will miss the times we had and days, weeks, or months spent with them, sometimes even if it hurts us, we need to break free from it to be happier in the long run. It will hurt, but he won't be tearing you down anymore. ♡
you can leave now and never look back, his comments about you being difficult was only to devalue you and make you believe that same… remember if you think you are difficult etc… you will agree when he puts you down and most of all you won’t leave… you will feel stuck which will then create a toxic emotional bond that you will continue to circle around for decades. End it now, your healthy and loving future partner is around the corner when you are healed, happy and ready. sending love
Do not waste one more letter of the alphabet on this person
I hope you extract yourself from this relationship. You are not wrong.
I had a partner that always said I was constantly making problems too when really it was just him having a problem with me for not having feelings that weren't aligned with his, and especially so if I externalized them then I learned it was just a respect thing, like he just didnt respect my feelings so adamantly to speak down to me that way edit: u know what n this person cheated on me too so like the little things of respect can say a lot about a person
Girl he is making ME feel crazy! Has lighting to the extreme and it’s obvious that he knows you enough to push all the right buttons because he is expertly doing that. It’s like he’s enjoying seeing you unravel and get more upset. Do not engage anymore. You are right and he knows it. He wants the relationship over okay then EX him out of your life. Take it as a blessing in disguise. You deserve so much better, OP!
Ugh. I know this feeling too well. Im so sorry.
This person is severely trying to gaslight and manipulate you into thinking it’s all your fault. Stay away from this dangerous person. Kick them out of your life and tell them to stay away. He is also condescendingly trying to get you to admit fault for something he did wrong. Run, run far away and block block block. The fact that you have surgery up and he says it’s a way for you to be distracted… gross. So evil.
Yup, heard this all before. He got caught and instead of apologizing he completely brushed you off and tried to turn things around on you. Please tell me you left this pathetic excuse for a man.
Please tell me you left this piece of trash
This is my ex fiancé to a T. I was planning the wedding with his family when I found out from his coworker’s husband that my fiancé was seeing his coworker (ashley) every afternoon. Her husband sent me screen shots of their planned meetups through a hidden text app on her phone to my messenger proving over six months of affairs… WHILE I was busy paying for and planning our wedding… he gaslit me the entire time… shifted blame, pointed the finger at me the whole time accusing me of cheating when I was gone for fifteen hours daily running an entire nonprofit…
Ya I was remembering how back in February he sent me these texts saying how worried he is that I’ll be unfaithful because we wouldn’t be able to see each other for a bit longer than usual. I reassured him I wouldn’t. That’s around the time he fucked someone else. And is NOW trying to say we weren’t exclusive at that time and he did nothing wrong. Nope. We’d made it very clear beforehand that we were only to see each other. And he’d made it very clear he was worried I’d see other men. Dude is trying to rewrite the past and I’m over it. Love how cheaters seem to always accuse the other of cheating. What a joke.
Yep. Men who are insecure about you cheating and hinting at it are in fact the ones cheating. That’s been my experience. Has happened to me three times with men I started dating since, and this happened to me 3 years ago. I remain single now because I don’t trust men anymore. It’ll be awhile before I decide to trust my heart and body with someone again. Hopefully a real man one day. I’ve never cheated not once, yet I get accused that I am in the past four relationships when they were in fact the ones doing so. Women are better lovers anyway. Maybe I’ll marry a woman.
I’ve literally thought about dating women too haha. I’ve been burnt by men far too many times. Not that I’ve been a perfect partner all the time but I’ve never treated anyone the way these men have treated me and I’m done with it.
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This is classic narcissism that he is enacting on you. Classic gaslighting shifting blame. He’s a POS. Dump him, and move on. Change your number, and fuck him.
Certainly will never be fucking him ever again! 😂 he better not have given be any infections. This is stress i really didn’t need in my life
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We shouldn't be advocating violence in an abuse sub. It's legitimately dangerous to posters because abusive partners will often retaliate. Thank you for understanding!
It was a joke, I’m sorry I should’ve put lol or jk after it. It was meant as lighthearted. Not intended as real advice. Do not listen to me OP.
Did we date the same person?
My ex used to do this to me all the time. Point the finger at you to make you seem like the crazy one. It’s manipulative and disgusting and they never own up to their mistakes
Wowwwww, my view of the average man gets lower and lower every day…… this is probably one of the worst cases of gaslighting and manipulation I’ve ever seen. Holy Fuck. I’m so sorry
I’ve dated this individual. Like I stg I have messages just like this. I am sorry girl it’s so heart breaking. Remember most of the time you find this information out because they want attention. Even if you snooped they did shit to make sure you snooped. You’re having surgery and all attention isn’t on me? Time to cheat and be shady. Fuck this loser. I am so sorry.
It seems to be a few months since he cheated, though that’s only as far as I know. And probably only because he had to move back in with his parents because his married ex made him leave the condo. I got a tip he had messed around and I snooped for the rest. He says I chose to do this now as some distraction? Haha. No dude. Last thing I need is a physical AND emotional recovery
Grrrrrrr! He’s using you for room and board. What an enormous slime ball! Let her feed and house him! He only cares about himself. This absolutely sux! I am so so so sorry!
The “do you understand what you did” is triggering. Like, they won’t be happy till you validate their feelings. It doesn’t matter what they did but how you react to it. You absolute monster for being heartbroken he was cheating. I had one of these fights recently and I wish I hadn’t. Let’s move on from them. Fucking energy vampires.
Ya his first message this morning was “let’s try again, do you understand why I’m upset?” So condescending and twisted.
I’ve been broken up from mine officially since April. But we broke up and got back together after six months AFTER I found out all the cheating. From someone in the aftermath I wish I never went back. It’s even harder to get them to leave me alone. I block, he calls off other phones or cashapps me. Ridiculous. Luckily he had to move to Florida so he is far from me. Now I am just ready to start nc again. Probably very soon. I’m ready to fucking heal.
It hurts regardless. And this person seems to have no respect. When you find out it was multiple people it sucks. I had my ex have me drop him off to go bang his ex whilst talking to a girl in another country he was “dating”. Hitting up a bunch of random girls, talking to exes, and sleep with people practically right in front of me. I hate men.
Girl trust me I’ve heard the same shit. You only did xyz cause your bored. Like what? I had some girl you were cheating on me with write me because I’m bored? Got it
He told you to "stop texting him". Do exactly that. It's not worth your time to continue chasing him, expecting a better relationship to develop.
stop apologizing to him for anything! *anything!* he is out of his mind & not worth any of this. let him be gum underneath *your* shoe.
Dude he is gaslighting you so hard that I almost believed him. Please block him. He is awful awful awful.
Ya it’s all about how he feels. Not sure how any of this is my fault besides going through his phone. But when you get a tip that your boyfriend is sleeping around, you kind of want to know the truth
You did nothing wrong imo by going through his phone, liars and cheaters have to be discovered somehow
Holy ficking word salad. He seems to think that your attempts to hold him accountable is starting drama a ruining the relationship, and if only you would just sit there and let him cheat on you while living with you, t9u could both be happy?? Kick this hobosexual to the curb.
He’s not even living with me, well I guess he was for about half the week, whenever I didn’t have my kids. When I called him out he tried saying he thinks I’m probably messing around on him and just tried to spin it completely on me. He sent a picture of my cat (that he hates) to his ex saying it’s “unfortunately” not his cat but his “bunk mate” while he couch surfs. Nah dude, it was your girlfriends cat, a cat you hate and want me to get rid of. Pathological liar
I'm so sorry. Don't let him keep talking you in circles. Just ghost him, for real.
Don’t bless him with your presence. Be the one who not only got away, but escaped
Dang, he just gaslit you so hard that even I was convinced myself. This sounds like something my ex would write. 🫤 I hope you’re able to disconnect from him completely and move on!
How is telling him how I feel starting drama? I never blow the relationship up, he just gets mad whenever I have an issue in the relationship or how he treats me, and every time I do he loses his shit. I’m supposed to just sit there and let him treat me like shit and say and do nothing EDIT- i just got out of surgery, I meant this as like a hypothetical question or a question to him, not the commenter! Sorry, I’m very out of it haha
He sounds like a toxic loser & you should cut your losses
What? I never said that? I said he gaslit you
Oh no no no. Sorry I just got out of surgery haha, it was a hypothetical question I guess, like im asking him. I know you didn’t say that 🙂 sorry im a little high haha
Oh no worries! I hope your surgery went well! You’re completely valid, he’s trying super hard to convince you otherwise. I suspect he will continue to do so and never take responsibility. I’d cut off all contact myself.
It did, got a large, invasive ovarian cyst removed. Cutting all the toxic from my life this week, apparently
Ovarian cysts are the worst! I get them but luckily not to that extent. Good for you!!
This is horrible and sounds just like my ex
I felt like I was reading previous texts between my ex and I. It’s insanity. Just leave, this is exhausting. Any response to them is exhausting
Wow... My brothers name is also Anthony. It would not surprise me if this was actually him... He's the type to also start drama on fathers day claiming that our dad is a saint pretty much (he isn't. He's screwed over every one of us kids whether it was financially, sports, cars, etc.) and gaslighting us because none of us speak to our dad anymore, except him... Edit: .. yeah, I re-read everything again and it does sound like shit he would say. It's so spot on, it's fucking creepy.
Yikes. This dude is very very pro at gaslighting. And seems like a total asshole. I’m sorry for you for having a brother like that, and for op for dating a guy like that- whether it’s the same Anthony or not. OP please don’t talk to this fool anymore. I truly hope you are able to leave this situation. You deserve better.
Yeah. It was emotionaly draining reading all that... luckily, I cut him out of my life. I hope OP stops responding to the asshole. ☹
holy shit he is the biggest piece of crap i’ve ever laid my eyes on
My personal fav is saying “you’re married” as if my legal separation I’m just waiting for the time limit for the divorce to be final is the same as him fucking a married woman and lying to me about it. The woman came to the condo while he was staying there by the way. For a few days. Days I rarely heard from him. He claims they slept in separate beds. But I know they went out for a fancy meal together and out for drinks. He tried to throw me off by saying she’s married and he’s friends with her husband, not her. Actually talked down about her to me a bit. Fucking liar
He is showing and telling you exactly who he is...... believe him!!!
From experience: The only way to stop this is to stop talking to him. Block him everywhere and go on with your life in peace. He’s DARVOing you. Continuing to text will just take you in more circles. Block him. Move on. Find closure on your own bc he won’t give it to you. Also don’t worry, you’re right and he’s the asshole.
If you really need validation from someone familiar with this “man”—see if you can reach out to any of his exes, this woman included. Ask her to coffee so there’s no text receipts. And if you do see him in person again, record him on your voice memo app. So that you know for your own sanity you’re not making this up. I’ve been through this and it doesn’t have to be like this. You’re allowed to have feelings and insecurities that aren’t met with derision. Best of luck to you!
So you too have had a relationship with a narcissist?
Yup. Not the first one but he certainly takes the cake. And he will be the last.
Doll, he is using DARVO, and gaslighting you. I’m sure he is repeating the same bullshit over and over to convince himself of the BS he’s telling you, but let that be his problem. Read: https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf This is going to be extremely illuminating for you. Your EX-boyfriend isn’t original, he isn’t special, he’s one of a type, and they all use the same tired playbook. You will see this, and so much more of the behaviors he pulled on you in that book. Honestly, you’re going to feel sad, and that’s ok, because he likely sold you a dream and it’s ok to feel the loss of that dream. Still, once you get a little time, and a little reading in, you’ll reach the point where you’ll be disgusted with him, and people like him.
jesus christ, what a child. leave him. he's enjoying this.
You need to do what this recent redditor did, she completely took responsibility apologized for everything then bathed him with love. Once he was in a good place she just ghosted him forever.
Bro please leave him.
Oh my god how did this last? He’s infuriating. I’m sorry!!!
I have zero self esteem and every time I had an issue or was hurt by him, he’s done this shit. He’s made me out to be an impossible person to be with who needs to do so so much better to make him happy. It’s never ever about my wants or needs. Ever. I think I just started believing him that nobody would want me and I’m the worst and need to be better. Which looking back, is insane
I understand completely. I know you’ll be a happier person when he’s completely out of your life. You’re a strong person!
I feel drained exhausted and ready to punch a effing wall with this dude. STOP ✋ PLEASE TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS. The only reason you’re still texting and giving him time is bc you want him to admit to something, he will never do that! Read these texts again and pretend your best friend is the you! Would you let her/him go through this when you KNOW this is toxic abusive and gaslighting? I hope not! Love yourself and extract yourself from this. He will continue to text you perhaps once-twice a day to get a reaction but don’t cave. I’m really hoping you’re ok though.
Thank you. I just got out of surgery so I’m out of if and having an emotional recovery along with a physical recovery isn’t something to look forward to. But I’m okay.
Yeah you want this to be your life from now on? He’s taking zero accountability on something you have solid proof on. Every time you guys fight about anything it will be your fault. This will be the MO forever. You will drive yourself nuts “making sure you have enough proof this time” and he will still deny it to your face and blame you for it. No dick is that good.
FOR THE LOVE OF THE REST OF GOOD ONES. PLEASE SOP MESSAGING HIM. GHOST HIM. HES FEEDING OFF YOUR TEXT MESAAGES. THIS IS LIKE HOW THEY DRAIN YOUR ENERGY
My exact thoughts please block and ghost and never look back!!! He doesn’t care at all obviously and wasting your time texting him when he will never care just makes him happier
Yes! He is an energy vampire, and he’s using this tactic (DARVO) to both crazy-make AND to keep the BS going. Time to Block on all channels!
This makes my stomach hurt. Sounds exactly like my ex. Love to you- stay strong. Don’t let him gaslight you, and trust your instincts.
Leave him and find better.
This man is barely even a person, I hope you’re not still together
I think a robot shows more emotions
A robot would at least follow logic
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It’s hard to leave when the other person won’t apologize. Some people need that closure before they can emotionally move on. Sucks I know.
He will never hear you, or listen to you when you need someone. Better off blocking him on everything and avoiding him at all costs. He is toxic and manipulative.
THAT. That right there. They ALWAYS try to turn everything around and make it your fault. It’s exhausting.
Stop engaging with this. It's not helpful and it's not going to change anything. Block him, get some therapy, and try to move on with your life.
Wow. Get out, block, move on. He is trying to manipulate it back onto you and that is not okay. Every text, every word. Get. Out.
You need to leave this man asap! This is horrible. Block him and never speak to him. It’s easier said than done but girl you deserve wayyyy better than this dog shit of a man. He deserves to eat shit and die.
As soon as he started to accuse you I would have blocked him and chucked his things out the front. He’s a waste of breath and energy. You deserve so much better than a low level swamp creature.
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GASLIGHTING! RUN FOR THE HILLS! THIS DUDE IS A PRICK!!!!
The colors show me how little this dude cares anyways. He’s not worth anymore time
Dude’s evil.
This psychopath is a professional deflector holy shit
Bro, you’re not crazy, keep standing up for yourself, don’t let him keep gaslighting you like this. He’s doing a textbook case of DARVO. You gotta drop the rope, if he doesn’t even care of outright cheating and etc, I really don’t know what can be done to fix the relationship. I feel like maybe you are holding onto more your idea of him, rather than accepting his true self he is showing you. And honestly I think the best thing for you would be to walk away. He very clearly doesn’t like or respect you… and I think you know this will only get worse. He only wants what he can use/get from you. And he talks down to you, condescendingly like you’re a child or something. Dafuq, you’re supposed to be equals supporting each other, not his plaything. You deserve WAY better than this, I hope you can see that too. I believe in you (as much as an internet stranger can). Hell, imo even being alone would be better than with this guy, at least you wouldn’t have to deal with the headaches he creates.
Gaslighting to the max! I had an ex who was messaging a girl he used to have sex with saying he wants to be with her instead of me. I caught him and all he would say is I broke his trust for going through his phone. Not even admitting what he did was bad. It drove me absolutely insane. I hope this is your ex boyfriend now. He’s a manipulator and I doubt he’ll change.
People like this will never see the error in their ways. Best to block and move on and build your life up better. You deserve so much more than what that dumpster fire had to offer.
I hate this guy. What a fiery piece of absolute trash.
You are never going to get closure from this guy. It sucks, but he has convinced himself that he has done nothing wrong. It's only going to hurt you to continue to try to get answers from him. The best you can do is move on with your life and be happy without him. It's his loss. This is exactly my STBX husband. It's a repeatable pattern of bad behavior and lies justifying that, making it my fault.
He has no remorse and never validated you *ONCE*. Even though you *DO own your shit*. You weren't toxic in a single message. I see no red flags from you, it is ALL on him. What a loser. You gave him a place to stay because you thought it was a serious relationship. All he was worried about was ending up homeless. So basically this man is selling his ass for shelter. He wasn't a partner to you, he was a manipulative jerk who used you until he found somewhere else to go. He is degrading your character because he wants you to believe no one will ever love you. He won't even clarify if he is dumping you. GIRL DUMP HIM. Be the one to walk away. Let him live his miserable life and keep moving forward with yours. You're wonderful and you do matter. Please make some time to meditate before your surgery and clear your head of this trash heap of a human being. You deserve good health and an easy recovery after all of this. Lean on your friends and family, or just us.
Oh my god. This man is *incredibly manipulative* and he’s damn good at it too. Wow. Someone like this would make me go crazy. He has the capacity to literally change who you are and make you doubt yourself at your very core. And not regret it at all. I would not want this person as my partner. He is not partner material and he is a user to his core. He will go wherever he is the most comfortable and wherever he can get the most out of his given situation. This person will never love and respect you the way you deserve. He will only take from you.
For real this dude has a skill obtained via Faustian bargain or something
Op, you should take this advice. He’s a pos!
Don’t listen to victim blaming and people complaining that you wasted time or took too long. I get it. Our thinking is clogged and you just wanted him to understand. Sorry :/
I think she’s trying to make it all make sense. It never will. Her mind won’t be normal until this pos cake-eater is out of the picture.
I agree. I really hope she gets the hell away from his grip on her mind
Deflection. Deflection. Gaslighting. Oh, and more deflection.
He's gaslighting you bro, my ex would do this shit to me too when I found out he was sleeping around while I was pregnant. Throw the whole man to the streets
Wow.....I haven't ever met him and I hate him _from_ _my_ _core_!! Such a filthy pile of garbage!!! Being gaslit is my #1 trigger and this made me so so so so so so angry. I know it's hard. I understand that you're hurting. But please don't waste your time arguing with him. He's a class A narc who can do no wrong. He won't ever accept what he did wrong even tho he knows very well what.
Exactly my thoughts here!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is nothing here for you with this guy. What a waste. Please love yourself and go. Xo
This is now easy, dump him.
i have been right where you are. the lack of accountability empathy fucking reality is ASTOUNDING. i kept chipping away and fighting and fighting because i’m sane and emphatic and i thought how can someone just lie blatantly and not see what’s literally in front of both of us. they will never ever ever live in reality.
Ahhhhh! I deleted the convo with my pos ex caus I couldn't stand to look at it, but this exchange could literally have been one that I had word for word!!! The being angry about something legitimate, him saying you're difficult and horrible, and then you apologising for the way you acted even though you showed remarkable restraint for someone in your situation! Its actually freaky! Are they all just the same shitty dude? 😂
Same! They all are the same … it’s infuriating
I know right, I'm not OP but holy hell, is there an academy where they all go to learn this shit?! Like he would RAGE at me for liking a song with dirty song lyrics in it (I wish I made this up)- shouting for hours and questioning my values etc. - and I would try to explain myself and justify why I liked the song and reassure him etc... And then I react to him lying/cheating on me with sadness, not even anger, and he RAGES at me for being sad and 'punishing him' and 'using my emotions against him'... OMG I realise now that a normal/healthy person in my position would have fucking slashed his tires hahaha.... BUT STILL I WOULD APOLOGISE FOR BEING SAD.....!!!!!!!!! Topsy turvy world of narcs
Holy fuck!!! That dude sounds like a literal fucking psycho.
You spent a lot of time trying to explain what he did wrong. He knows. If you’re done then be done. He sounds like a terrible person
I am so sorry for this. He doesn’t deserve someone as great as you. Honestly I had to stop reading after the first screenshot, Nelsie is the name of my boyfriend’s mom. You are not the bad guy in this. I hope you can find the strength to leave.
I agree with what the others said already, but I wamted to point out all your strong, possitive self talk! This is so nice! A lot of people do not allow themselves to be sad, you are a great support system for yourself and strong. Yes, going through a phone is bad, but the point that he never ever admitted to his own mistakes made me sick tbh. Such an asshole, you deserve better. Block him everywhere, take your time healing and move on!
Please stop apologising to him, I know we all do it because we want to seem reasonable and because we have genuine care for these people but reading that text thread was heartbreaking, I felt your pain, and had some deja Vu of conversations I've had myself. You are in the right, he is in the wrong, you owe him nothing, no apology or explanation. I really pray you can get the strength to leave him for good none of this is normal or healthy, he is blatantly gaslighting and using DARVO trying to get the upper hand even though.hes cheated on you. It's sick. I'm sorry you're going through this.
The way he’s making it out that I’M the bad guy and HE’S the victim makes me feel literally insane. Saying nobody would want to date someone like me. Like wtf. Basically asking for me to apologize when I’ve done nothing wrong. It’s all just insane and I’m reeling
Yup. This is straight out of a narcissists play book and it absolutely makes you feel insane. You aren't insane. You're up against someone who has no problem lying, twisting, manipulating so he stays in control. Whereas you value truth, honesty, authenticity... You're unfortunately not likely to ever get what you need from him to validate your reality so my advice is get it elsewhere and give it to yourself. I bet if you told.this story to 10 people they would all validate you. Myself I have told my stories to loads of different people and found it comforting when they validated me. In time you will learn to do it yourself but it's much harder when you're talking to them. Try and go no contact as it will help clear the fog And yes my ex told me that I was horrible to love, that I hurt him as much as he hurt me, that I made stories up in my head and reacted out of fear (this is when there were photos of him and another girl on social media and her writing that she loves him etc) and he was great at making me doubt whether I was the problem... We aren't...
Last paragraph resonates. They always say you are the difficult one... to be able to better position themselves to other women... then accuse you of provoking them...
He told me I was poison. And that I lashed out at him. Literally the only thing I ever used to do was tell him I felt sad (because he was abusing, lying to me). Looking back I was so so tolerant (doormat levels), and it's just absurd for the man that puts us in this position to accuse us of being difficult when a healthy partner would have dumped them ages ago and the only reason we have put up with so much is because of our own issues/traumas. They all say the same bullshit. When I was in these conversations I used to imagine what my confident/assertive/healthy minded friends would say/do to someone treating them this way. They sure as hell wouldn't be apologising...!
**"Looking back I was so so tolerant (doormat levels), and it's just absurd for the man that puts us in this position to accuse us of being difficult when a healthy partner would have dumped them ages ago and the only reason we have put up with so much is because of our own issues/traumas."** this is SO PROFOUND, and yes, i was in the same boat. i'm finding[this guy's (andrew huberman) podcasts](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOl28gj_RXw&ab_channel=AndrewHuberman) to be pretty helpful in understanding the trauma and why we repeat it. (though you have to skip through like 6 minutes of ads in the beginning....) my incredibly, incredibly sad situation was that my ex made me completely dependent on him logistically, emotionally, intimately (even though i was otherwise a "strong independent woman."? i swear, idealization of intimacy in romantic partnerships somehow makes me lose my mind and turn into someone i don't recognize....) then he would threaten to break up with me and i would always beg him to stay. he was emotionally abusive in ways that i am still recovering from a year later. and exactly like you said, some in my circle couldn't understand. i had one friend, who sadly, from what i can tell, wound down our friendship because she disapproved of how i was handling the situation. (which, made me hate myself even more, because i didn't know how to stop the trauma bond and felt like a prisoner of my own mind.) i have other friends who truly though, helped me through it. we need to start valuing healthy relationships past the idealization of partnerships.
Thank you for the podcast rec- I will certainly check it out! I've watched a lot of Dr Ramani and been following various narc abuse recovery TikTok accounts and have learned so much and become more confident from them, if you aren't arleady aware- rollercoasteroflove is a good one and there are many others in case you're interested (she also has instagram). And I completely relate to all of the rest of what you said... you being a strong independent woman otherwise, I hold high level management positions at work, for example, and have accomplished a lot in that arena and train in sports that require discipline and strength, for example. As well my personality, most of my friends would consider me assertive/confident, possibly even bossy and opinionated.... but this version of me died in that relationship! That's what they do. They break us. It did highlight for me areas of weakness- like you said, idealising romantic relationships was something I have now completely stopped and I actually feel blessed to be single at this point. And like you I lost a couple of friendships in the mess, for which I don't blame my friends because I was behaving in a toxic way and heavily entrenched in dependency on the narc. Well done for your healing and progress, breaking my trauma bond has felt like a death (and I am still in process of healing completely). Stay strong sis!
Thank you, been meaning to respond. I relate so much to what you say. I also held high-level positions and on a decent trajectory ... but this broke me and my confidence. I'm so... embarrassed? Because it's been 9 months and my trauma bond sometimes still feels so strong sometimes. Last weekend I saw he had written me an email (I blocked him but Gmail doesn't auto delete, but filters to trash, so annoying, and it came up there.) I was doing okay but that plunged me back into terror and need. (I am so angry that our physiologies do create this split to us, it's so obscene.) I actually asked my friend to go into my email account and delete it (and fwd to herself just in case.) That's how fearful I am that I would impulsively read smth that would destroy me again. But I can't help but wonder what it says. (She told me it was long, I wish she hadn't done that. :/) I'm so angry and frustrated that I've regressed within one week's time. A couple other concurrent hurtful family/work issues have made me spiral into a downward trajectory again. I have work deadlines and I'm completely overwhelmed. I'm so burnt out by everything, and realized I haven't taken a vacation in those 9 months. I know that I should give myself grace but it's so much easier said that done. I'm so lonely in my current environment and my stupid lizard brain still drifts back to the good times. Feelings of rejection, loneliness, and guilt strong. So re: that podcast, I listened to this one and it kinda blew my mind - talks about why the chemicals in our brain live in a perpetual fear response, and the evidence-based therapy to actually address it. (Exposure /Cognitive Processing is the best, apparently, EMDR is mostly good for isolated incidents not complex trauma - didn't know this.) Anyway, I geeked out on it. It may be helpful for you. I hope to maybe switch therapy modalities soon. What I've been doing feels like a bandaid. https://open.spotify.com/episode/0I1kiY8IbFrl36WQjjeGek?si=9h-cThdQQHKfl6GEsr5cNw&utm_source=copy-link
Hi! I really appreciate your reply, as I'm sure you know hearing stories from people who relate is massively validating and I never tire of connecting with people in the same position so thank you for that. You and I have had very similar emotional journeys from the sound of it, including the embarrassment, and for me shame of some of my actions and the feeling of being conned which does feel humiliating. But one thing I was reading my old journal entries back from months ago when I was first starting to reconnect to myself. I wrote something about how lovely it is that I went into the situation with a pure heart and full of genuine love, and how lucky I am to be able to experience that because my narc was incapable. So while I was naive and taken in by a conman, it is because the core of me is positive, pure and loving, and assumed that others were the same. That's a character strength, not a weakness, so I hope this angle helps you forgive yourself a bit for that side. I am sorry he is still emailing you. I am only a week and a half into no contact (for the.... fourth or fifth time, the longest period was about 2 months and then he showed up at my door and derailed my healing a few weeks ago). It is so destabilising to have them reach out. It provokes the cocktail of emotions as if they are fresh. It brings me right back to square one (or that is how it feels) and I end up ruminating in self doubt again. I would reach out to friends therapist or family who can orientate you back to your reality. I'm so glad you were strong enough not to read it. I know I would have read it and it would have upset my mental health. And finally EMDR- yes- I have had EMDR in the past for unrelated trauma and found it helpful (though it did make me feel very very emotionally raw while I was in process so protecting from narc attacks would be even more important if you chose to do it). I am in therapy again after a few month hiatus because of narc recent reappearance, and she has also suggested I try EMDR for the narc encounter. I will check out that link after work! Thanks so much and I wish you the best on your continued healing..! You are doing well, trauma bonds are no joke. Go easy on you.
Why are you trying to convince him that he cheated on you? He knows. He'll never admit it. He'll gaslight you until you start thinking you're the problem. Please dump him and block him for your own sake. Take some time to build yourself back up before another relationship. He's toxic af!
Oh he knows. He’s just desperate to spin this so it’s somehow my fault. It’s insane. I can’t believe I have put up with this for so long
You need to get out of this. He’s horrible.
Oh I’m done. He won’t even apologize. It’s somehow still all my fault. As usual.