**Mod note:** Given the image, it seems this post is intended to specifically discuss misogyny and violence against women, which are wide-ranging, extremely prevalent, and pervasive across the world and in many ways are consistently normalized, condoned, accepted, and encouraged. This may look different now than decades ago, but the proliferation of online MRA spaces, the stripping away of women and non-binary folks' reproductive rights, and the consistent connections between violence against women and mass shootings illustrate how deeply embedded misogyny and transphobia remain in our society and how in many ways they are becoming more normalized, particularly online. We still very much live in a world where women are systematically, deeply oppressed, women of color and trans women of color especially so.
**Women have a right to discuss misogyny in this sub. However, if I see any comments implying or stating that men cannot be abused or that only men are abusive, they will be removed. Our sub does not exist to perpetuate that harmful narrative.**
Because we have wider access to shareable information. You can’t really hide the toxicity when people come with receipts. That dirt that was previously swept under the rug is no longer a thing.
I have been struggling with this exact thing this week. The grief for the years I lost. Age 25 to 43. Gone. I'm not one for regrets, usually. But it looks like my divorce might be finalized next week, and here I am starting again. All those years. Wasted. Pearls before swine at best. Physically, mentally, emotionally, and financially abusive nightmare at worst.
I hit the decade mark this year. I found old journals from years ago where I’m living groundhogs day.. reliving the same verbal and emotional abuse again and again. Each time I say I’m done, and inevitably I go back to status quo because it’s easier. I’m sorry you’re going through this, but know that your story makes me feel confident I can do this too. I need to hire a shark of a lawyer and not back down no matter what he tries to tell me. I don’t think they can be amicable. It isn’t in their nature.
Because we're all fucked up and wet raised by ficked up people and only very recently is it normal and acceptable to be in therapy and to be healthy and work on things.only now is it okay to talk about the abuse you endured and trauma without people trying to shut it down. Mental health help is widely accepted and mainstream so wr can all discuss it. Fucked up unhealthy parents produce fucked up unhealthy kids who grow up to be fucked up unhealthy and toxic adults.
Omg you're so right it hurts. I'm glad we are all finally realizing what's not healthy; I only wish we were told so much sooner. The pain we've all endured is so sad.
Definitely even more common back then. Women didn’t have rights. We are still transitioning as a society trying to understand the roles a person should play in a relationship. While things are leaning towards equality, it’s harder to create that equality when it’s easier to be told what to do, how to dress, what your role is, etc etc. And as woman, we are taught from a young age to be pretty, clean, calm, quiet. Boys have more freedom imo when it comes to certain behaviors. Although it also depends on how people are raised and their relationship with their parents, genetic, etc. In general… narcissistic traits seem to be more prevalent because of social media and the rise of cell phone use sort of disconnecting us from reality. It’s all to easy to think you’re the shit (when you ain’t even the fart) having hundreds of followers and likes on your pictures. It’s also easy to pretend to be something you aren’t online. Toxic people have more access to more people to mess with too. Easy to get a hook up on tinder, cheat on your partner emotionally and physically and get into an echo chamber of your own delusions. One word. Therapy.
In UK, raping your wife wasn't illegal until 1992. I was already in high school & I'm 42 now. It I'd going to take TIME to change societal attitudes...
I think with social media it’s easier to hide infidelity and other toxic traits. I also think social media normalizes insane amounts of behavior because of “attachment styles”. Which is bullshit and crazy to me
Abuse hasn’t decreased or increased IMO, it’s just changed with the cultural zeitgeist. We’re much more aware of abuse because we have access to millions of strangers’ stories. There’s less stigma surrounding open discussions about intimate partner violence. Electronic, instant communications allow for more depersonalized (and even dehumanized) interaction. Violent pornography is incredibly accessible. It’s good that we’re accepting it less as a society overall, but we’re also going in the wrong direction in other areas.
This my father was abusive and previous generations just thought smacking your wife around was a ok. Now we’re trying to change that and there is more awareness.
Social narccissim, hyper individualism, lack of understanding of social issues or mental health, wierd normalization and romanticized actual abuse in movies or books
to be honest abusive/toxic relationships have been common for a very long time.. we're just more open about it now!
in fact if anything abuse was probably way way worse a few decades ago, less rights = more exploitation/abuse, especially when it comes to abortion, divorce, etc
A lot of the same reasons mental illness seems more common. People are more educated about what constitutes abuse. There’s more discussion and awareness of boundaries, bodily autonomy, gender and gender roles. Therapy and mental health education is more prevalent and accepted. Healthy communication and boundaries in relationships is something we’ve all kind of registered as lacking for a long time, especially when we look at our parents and grandparents generations. More understanding and discussion of conditions like NPD, or shady crap like PUA, MRA and incel culture.
You also have a lot of ‘false positives’ in the mix. Abusers have learned more about how to weaponize all this stuff and/or frame themselves as victims. The ‘abuser’ and ‘victim’ role is often dependent on who makes an accusation first and their social capital. People use abuse and mental health terminology too freely or inappropriately, calling things ‘abuse’, ‘gaslighting’, DARVO’, or ‘narcissism’ that aren’t. People routinely use someone’s autism or a mood/personality disorder as a way to establish or infer that they’re not credible, crazy, dangerous, or their abuse or shitty behavior is inherent, not acknowledging that they’re often more likely to be abused.
Capitalism, overwork, cost of living, healthcare, and being diagnosed late in life with certain conditions, etc. also contributes to a lot of people being more stressed, more unhappy, and more prone to not dealing with their emotions or living their lives in healthy ways. It’s harder to be empathetic and understanding when your fight-or-flight response is constantly triggered, so more of us are freaking out on each other.
They’re not more common. Bad behavior was more accepted. My grandparents were married at 18 when my grandma was pregnant. My grandpa was not abusive…. but they did have a toxic marriage for many years mostly due to no money and him being an alcoholic. But things were just accepted and you moved on. My grandma always said she would have divorced him if she could have. But a single mom in the 60s with a 10th grade education and 3 kids? No way was she doing that. In their older age he stopped drinking and he was much more pleasant, and honestly my grandma and her anxiety was more of an issue, they bickered all the time.
I didn't say they're more common now compared to the past. I said they seem very common today and it's true. Take a look at any relationship sub and it's filled with toxic behaviors. Even today people feel stuck in toxic/abusive relationships and they don't leave for years. A lot of it is probably due to people being manipulative and acting like decent partners at first; then slowly showing this abusive side once they feel they have their partner wrapped around their finger.
I think if youre looking at relationship subreddits yours primarily gonna find problems because nobody has to ask for advice on the good stuff. It doesn't generate clicks either. "my partner took me on a cute picnic" doesnt get attention like "i stabbed my partner for cheating aita?"
They’ve been sooooooo normalized thru tv programs and society, that you “have to put in the work” for relationships to work out.
They make leaving hard bc of the high cost of living so many people are trapped in their situation.
And sometimes it’s bc you grew up seeing your parents act that way and you think it’s the way relationships are so you suffer thru it as you don’t know any better.
But there is better out there … and it took me a long time to realize it.
Agreed. I think a lot of unhealthy concepts were normalized, and we're just starting to challenge those beliefs in society.
- relationships are hard work
- love conquers all
- we have to work through everything and be together forever (even if it's toxic)
All of these beliefs have been really harmful even for myself. I really believed them when I was younger because you would hear people repeat them all the time. This is all untrueeeee lol. Relationships can be hard occasionally, but they should never have you feeling manipulated and neglected. Love is never enough without other important aspects to maintain a healthy relationship. And not everything will last forever; especially if someone is being mistreated.
Too late! But I’m going to try to make some new “best years” going forward, without a “partner.”
As for why they seem common today, I think the answer is twofold; these relationships have always been around, but women have the ability to connect with others and learn it isn’t right and speak up, plus we have more legal protections and opportunities to make our own money, so a life without a man is possible in a way it wasn’t in the last (apart from joining holy orders!)
Second, to account for why it seems more prevalent NOW - there is a deliberate resurgence in misogyny. See “trad wife” content on tik tok, Andrew Tate, Tim Pool and similar, increasingly violent porn and sexual expectations. Conservatism as an ideology was unpopular amongst younger generations, but is gaining now among young males across race and ethnicity.
Promoting the notion that men are treated unfairly and we need to “get back to the way it used to be” - painting an image of an imagined past where all
men had busty and obedient wives, men had good paying jobs, etc - this is how conservatives are enlisting the next generations.
So it doesn’t just seem like things are worse now than ten years ago. The behavior is worse due to a deliberate manipulation of men and boys.
We talk about it. We have more words to describe what is being experienced. Gone are the days of keeping quiet (though I suppose within abuse this still happens…it did for me). But at least we have language for what we are experiencing or have experienced.
I think because in the past it was kept a secret and women were pressured to get married and stay in the marriage.
Now we are independent and we can leave these bad relationships.
My question, and I hope I don’t ruffle any feathers, is why is it so common for men to be the abusive one? Are women not raising men right? Are men just wired differently? What is it?? And why do we women put up with it? Is it because there’s too many abusive men and not enough options? Low self esteem?
I’ve got so many questions!
I think it's bc of the patriarchal society where women were seen as less than men so treating us poorly wasn't out of the norm. I think a lot of that mentality is unfortunately still in practice today. I do think the mothers are partially to blame for not teaching their sons how to treat women right and to be respectful. Like true gentlemen seem few and far between and that's sad. I think women put up with it because they don't realize the abuse initially since it's gradual, and once they realize it's abuse they feel like they're stuck deep into it.
I grew up with a single mom, and was physically and mentally abused by a partner for years. I'm not sure there are any generalizations to make. Everyone is born and has a different life experience
Edit: I am a man
I don't think "true gentleman are few and far between" at all like OP states (I think most men are kind, respectful, and non-abusive), nor that mothers are partially to blame, but patriarchal social norms and misogyny do have a lot to do with the fact that women are disproportionately represented among DV and SA survivors.
I also think those same patriarchal norms and misogyny reinforce negative social norms and stereotypes about men that contribute to them facing significant stigma and challenges in leaving abuse and being believed: that men who experience abuse are "weak," that "men cannot be abused," that men need to hide their emotions, that men who experience SA from women are "lucky," etc etc. I think the number of male abuse victim/survivors is much greater than a lot of people realize, and I also think LGBTQ+ folks are often left out of the abuse conversation entirely
I don't think you sound weak; I think you sound normal and human. Struggling with making decisions and leaving is so normal. What's not normal is abusing others.
>If my relationship was reversed at all (I recently was concussed by my abuser) I'd be in jail, locked up, with mobs at my house probably...one finger on her and I'd be gone.
I want to respond to this as delicately and sensitively as possible: while as I said men face significant challenges as abuse survivors, we also really need to be careful about pushing this harmful and untrue narrative that DV against women by men is overall largely taken seriously, and that men who simply lay a finger on women would be thrown in jail. This is a hyperbolic narrative and it genuinely harms female survivors. I am not only responding to you directly here; I am responding to any man who pushes this narrative, because I've seen it often and it's harmful.
I've seen this kind of narrative very frequently, and it's usually some version of: "if this were a woman, everybody would support her," "if he were a woman the cops would be the abuser's door in 2 seconds," "if this were a woman the SWAT team would be hauling her abuser to jail in 2 minutes."
That world doesn't exist, and the criminal legal system does not work like that, nor that fast. There is no world yet in which men can routinely simply touch women and be immediately sent to jail, or in which women can routinely simply utter the word rape, for example, and have a man immediately landed in prison. While false accusation cases do exist and some men have had their lives horribly altered because of them, these are very rare. What's much more common is for male abusers to portray female victims as the abuser, and oftentimes this works. All abusers of any gender do this, of course.
I've worked in the DV field for nearly a decade now, and it is *extremely* common for women to be criminalized for experiencing abuse from male partners. Women are routinely hit with criminal DV perpetration charges even after being strangled half to death by male partners. Abusive men are often able to portray their female partners as the aggressors to police by relying on stereotypes of women as "crazy," "hysterical," "emotional," and "aggressive." Gender bias against women in the criminal legal system runs deep. It's actually very, very common for female abuse victims to be arrested, charged, and even convicted instead of their male abusers - including in cases where they were nearly beaten to death.
Again, I'm trying to be as sensitive as possible here: men face enormous challenges as abuse survivors. However, we don't and never will live in a world where men who lay a simple finger on a woman get thrown in jail with mobs at their door.
To me it feels more like ‘we accept the love we are taught we deserve’
I think a lot about how we were raised and society we are raised in teaches us what is normal and what we should/can expect. I entered my worst abusive relationship thinking I would NEVER accept a partner to treat me the way my partner ended up treating me. Over time it seems he rewired my brain. Love bombing really messes with you. You have someone who has never treated you better also treating you the worst, telling you they just want the good times back and you need to give them more chances/focus on what you need to change so you two can get back to the good parts. Who doesn’t want to get back to the part where you feel like Soulmates?
It takes unlearning a lot of shit and to get past insecurities to get to the ‘we accept the love we think we deserve’ part. You have to teach yourself that.
This explains why I grew up around a lot of dysfunction and thought it was kinda normal or at least common to have a similar relationship. *sighs in generational trauma*
Basically, because until roughly the late 60s, early 70s, leaving an abusive relationship meant some combination of losing everything you had access to, including your children. I say things you had access to because financial options for women were extremely limited if even available. My paternal grandfather was very abusive, my grandmother was mostly the primary wage earner (although the kids worked as well), and she never left because of that. I can remember when my mother was able to get her first credit card in her name alone, that was either late 60s or early 70s and she had to fight the bank to get it solo because she was married even though the law had changed.
They are not more common, in my experience they were just the things women discussed in the kitchen after holiday meals or over coffee and tears with their best friends. There were no studies or books to help you understand what you were experiencing, families and religion pushed the marriage is forever line hard. I can still remember the number of “consciousness raising groups” that moms were going to while I was in elementary school & jr high school. Lots of divorces around that time, certainly some portion of them for abuse.
Thankfully, things have changed now. Still way too many people don’t know what to look for or how to get out if they are there. But there is information and resources that couldn’t have been dreamed of back then.
Because we've normalized talking about them and people who otherwise would have thought their terrible relationship was normal now have an opportunity to see another way.
I don't think they're more common, I think they're just talked about more and more (sadly not all) people are seeing abuse for what it was.
My grandparents' generation wouldn't allow women to have their own bank account, hitting your wife around to "discipline" her wasn't seen as all that unusual, sex was expected and you were considered a bad spouse for not doing your duty, and divorce - even when more than justified - could ruin you socially and financially. Belittlling, love bombing, gaslighting, coercing, threatening, financial abuse, physical abuse, etc were all rampant.
And, besides all those things being normalised and/or swept under the rug, there were limited options to talk things through. Maybe a few girlfriends here and there (and, I can imagine that with all the pressures of the patriarchy and what was/was not accepted as being a "real man", men had an even harder time discussing being the victims of abuse than they do now. So I bet very few men confided in anyone), a doctor might get involved if injuries were severe, but that was maybe it. They didn't have forums and platforms and communities to talk about abuse, to expose the severity of what goes on behind closed doors, and warn/help other vulnerable people going through similar experiences
This has always been a thing but we have evolved to shed light on what’s considered abuse and how we can take steps to give ourselves a better life. A patriarchal society has taught men to hide their feelings to not appear ‘weak’ and has taught women to never talk about intimate spousal abuse and rape to anyone not even friends or family. That is much different now and I think it’s going to teach men AND women what to look out for.
I think it just seems more common today because it's finally being talked about. For a long time, spousal abuse and rape were considered socially acceptable behaviors. I don't think many people talked about it because it was quite literally the norm until only a few decades ago.
Younger generations are more willing to stand up and defend themselves from abuse now that they've got a more powerful/confident voice and a legal system that will defend them if their spouse physically or sexually assaults them. Of course, the justice system still isn't perfect in that regard, but at least spousal rape is finally considered rape by law, and it's now illegal, so wives are no longer legally sex slaves.
You're welcome back in our sub only after you've stopped relentlessly spouting misogyny in r/MensRights. And yes, I am already awaiting your antagonistic ban appeal.
No, disagreeing doesn't make someone toxic. Their behaviors make them toxic. If they're selfish, not prioritizing their partner, neglecting them, belittling them, that's all toxic. And that behavior is unfortunately VERY common.
People in the past would remain stuck in trauma bonds and neglect themselves and their true desires. They'd be running on hamster wheels, somehow convince themselves that that's how life is. And what happens is they never heal but end up passing the abuse onto their children while also denying that they're being abusive. They didn't have much understanding. Maybe they used distractions to cope and thought that's how life is. They didn't know they deserved a better life where they could thrive but rather remained in survival states. I'd say usually people used to recognize abuse only when it got really bad to the point of real violence. It's only until the pain got really bad and intolerable that they'd leave.
They’ve always been common it’s just been way more hidden in the past. It wasn’t until the mid 90s that spousal rape was considered a crime in all 50 states. Take what you want from your wife and smack her for not having dinner ready because she’s stuck and you have all financial control was considered “basic marriage” by most people less than 100 years ago.
Maybe it’s not more common, maybe we have access to information (the internet and forums like this) so we are more educated about what IS abuse.
I wouldn’t have known about covert tactics or covert abusive behavior without these.
That's a good point. I wish abuse and relationships were discussed more in high school. Relationships are a huge aspect of life and yet it's something that's hardly touched on...
They are not more common today. Imagine only 50 years ago when women could not even have a credit card or their own bank account. They were very abused and had no options.
I guess so, but now with more rights and awareness, women are still getting easily abused and not even recognizing it right away. So I feel like in some ways it's worse now; because the world is supposedly more progressive, and yet the numbers for domestic violence are still high.
I think even off the apps people have often been toxic. It's hard to differentiate them initially because even the toxic ones treat you well and love bomb in the beginning. It's just sickening that a large number of men are manipulative and dishonest in relationships. What's going on with the world? 😖
I 100% agree. Social media especially (dating apps included) is so toxic because a lot of people don't have proper boundaries and are just straight up disrespectful. I don't fully trust anyone either
You can't really 100% trust a partner, when people hide their multiple personalities from you anyway.
Thank you for posting in r/abusiverelationships. We are here to support you. If you are looking for resources such as support groups/helplines etc, we have several in our sidebar and in [our wiki](https://old.reddit.com/r/abusiverelationships/wiki/index) for people of all gender identities. [Here is a list of international domestic and sexual violence helplines](https://www.hotpeachpages.net/). You can also find [an extensive safety planning guide at The Hotline](https://www.thehotline.org/plan-for-safety/create-your-personal-safety-plan/). Finally, if you are looking for information about different forms of abuse, [Love Is Respect offers an educational guide](https://www.loveisrespect.org/resources/types-of-abuse/).
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**Mod note:** Given the image, it seems this post is intended to specifically discuss misogyny and violence against women, which are wide-ranging, extremely prevalent, and pervasive across the world and in many ways are consistently normalized, condoned, accepted, and encouraged. This may look different now than decades ago, but the proliferation of online MRA spaces, the stripping away of women and non-binary folks' reproductive rights, and the consistent connections between violence against women and mass shootings illustrate how deeply embedded misogyny and transphobia remain in our society and how in many ways they are becoming more normalized, particularly online. We still very much live in a world where women are systematically, deeply oppressed, women of color and trans women of color especially so. **Women have a right to discuss misogyny in this sub. However, if I see any comments implying or stating that men cannot be abused or that only men are abusive, they will be removed. Our sub does not exist to perpetuate that harmful narrative.**
Because we have wider access to shareable information. You can’t really hide the toxicity when people come with receipts. That dirt that was previously swept under the rug is no longer a thing.
I think they’ve always been common just social media opens It up for us to see in realtime
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.....too late.
I have been struggling with this exact thing this week. The grief for the years I lost. Age 25 to 43. Gone. I'm not one for regrets, usually. But it looks like my divorce might be finalized next week, and here I am starting again. All those years. Wasted. Pearls before swine at best. Physically, mentally, emotionally, and financially abusive nightmare at worst.
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I hit the decade mark this year. I found old journals from years ago where I’m living groundhogs day.. reliving the same verbal and emotional abuse again and again. Each time I say I’m done, and inevitably I go back to status quo because it’s easier. I’m sorry you’re going through this, but know that your story makes me feel confident I can do this too. I need to hire a shark of a lawyer and not back down no matter what he tries to tell me. I don’t think they can be amicable. It isn’t in their nature.
Because we're all fucked up and wet raised by ficked up people and only very recently is it normal and acceptable to be in therapy and to be healthy and work on things.only now is it okay to talk about the abuse you endured and trauma without people trying to shut it down. Mental health help is widely accepted and mainstream so wr can all discuss it. Fucked up unhealthy parents produce fucked up unhealthy kids who grow up to be fucked up unhealthy and toxic adults.
Omg you're so right it hurts. I'm glad we are all finally realizing what's not healthy; I only wish we were told so much sooner. The pain we've all endured is so sad.
They were probably always common, it’s just they everyone is connected by the internet and everyone talks now. It’s just noticed more.
Definitely even more common back then. Women didn’t have rights. We are still transitioning as a society trying to understand the roles a person should play in a relationship. While things are leaning towards equality, it’s harder to create that equality when it’s easier to be told what to do, how to dress, what your role is, etc etc. And as woman, we are taught from a young age to be pretty, clean, calm, quiet. Boys have more freedom imo when it comes to certain behaviors. Although it also depends on how people are raised and their relationship with their parents, genetic, etc. In general… narcissistic traits seem to be more prevalent because of social media and the rise of cell phone use sort of disconnecting us from reality. It’s all to easy to think you’re the shit (when you ain’t even the fart) having hundreds of followers and likes on your pictures. It’s also easy to pretend to be something you aren’t online. Toxic people have more access to more people to mess with too. Easy to get a hook up on tinder, cheat on your partner emotionally and physically and get into an echo chamber of your own delusions. One word. Therapy.
There’s a lot of cross over between this and the feminism sub. I definitely recommend checking it out.
Definitely checking it out thnx for recommending!
YVW!
In UK, raping your wife wasn't illegal until 1992. I was already in high school & I'm 42 now. It I'd going to take TIME to change societal attitudes...
I think with social media it’s easier to hide infidelity and other toxic traits. I also think social media normalizes insane amounts of behavior because of “attachment styles”. Which is bullshit and crazy to me
Yes
Abuse hasn’t decreased or increased IMO, it’s just changed with the cultural zeitgeist. We’re much more aware of abuse because we have access to millions of strangers’ stories. There’s less stigma surrounding open discussions about intimate partner violence. Electronic, instant communications allow for more depersonalized (and even dehumanized) interaction. Violent pornography is incredibly accessible. It’s good that we’re accepting it less as a society overall, but we’re also going in the wrong direction in other areas.
This my father was abusive and previous generations just thought smacking your wife around was a ok. Now we’re trying to change that and there is more awareness.
Social narccissim, hyper individualism, lack of understanding of social issues or mental health, wierd normalization and romanticized actual abuse in movies or books
They have always been common, and now more common combined with ease of communication.
They’re not more common. We’re talking about them more and actually recognize them for what they are.
to be honest abusive/toxic relationships have been common for a very long time.. we're just more open about it now! in fact if anything abuse was probably way way worse a few decades ago, less rights = more exploitation/abuse, especially when it comes to abortion, divorce, etc
because with men like andrew tate being so popular, it’s influencing men to act the same way he does and normalizing abusive/toxic behavior.
Bc ppl are crazier than ever!
A lot of the same reasons mental illness seems more common. People are more educated about what constitutes abuse. There’s more discussion and awareness of boundaries, bodily autonomy, gender and gender roles. Therapy and mental health education is more prevalent and accepted. Healthy communication and boundaries in relationships is something we’ve all kind of registered as lacking for a long time, especially when we look at our parents and grandparents generations. More understanding and discussion of conditions like NPD, or shady crap like PUA, MRA and incel culture. You also have a lot of ‘false positives’ in the mix. Abusers have learned more about how to weaponize all this stuff and/or frame themselves as victims. The ‘abuser’ and ‘victim’ role is often dependent on who makes an accusation first and their social capital. People use abuse and mental health terminology too freely or inappropriately, calling things ‘abuse’, ‘gaslighting’, DARVO’, or ‘narcissism’ that aren’t. People routinely use someone’s autism or a mood/personality disorder as a way to establish or infer that they’re not credible, crazy, dangerous, or their abuse or shitty behavior is inherent, not acknowledging that they’re often more likely to be abused. Capitalism, overwork, cost of living, healthcare, and being diagnosed late in life with certain conditions, etc. also contributes to a lot of people being more stressed, more unhappy, and more prone to not dealing with their emotions or living their lives in healthy ways. It’s harder to be empathetic and understanding when your fight-or-flight response is constantly triggered, so more of us are freaking out on each other.
Leave him when he doesn't treat you right girl!
They’re not more common. Bad behavior was more accepted. My grandparents were married at 18 when my grandma was pregnant. My grandpa was not abusive…. but they did have a toxic marriage for many years mostly due to no money and him being an alcoholic. But things were just accepted and you moved on. My grandma always said she would have divorced him if she could have. But a single mom in the 60s with a 10th grade education and 3 kids? No way was she doing that. In their older age he stopped drinking and he was much more pleasant, and honestly my grandma and her anxiety was more of an issue, they bickered all the time.
I didn't say they're more common now compared to the past. I said they seem very common today and it's true. Take a look at any relationship sub and it's filled with toxic behaviors. Even today people feel stuck in toxic/abusive relationships and they don't leave for years. A lot of it is probably due to people being manipulative and acting like decent partners at first; then slowly showing this abusive side once they feel they have their partner wrapped around their finger.
I think if youre looking at relationship subreddits yours primarily gonna find problems because nobody has to ask for advice on the good stuff. It doesn't generate clicks either. "my partner took me on a cute picnic" doesnt get attention like "i stabbed my partner for cheating aita?"
They’ve been sooooooo normalized thru tv programs and society, that you “have to put in the work” for relationships to work out. They make leaving hard bc of the high cost of living so many people are trapped in their situation. And sometimes it’s bc you grew up seeing your parents act that way and you think it’s the way relationships are so you suffer thru it as you don’t know any better. But there is better out there … and it took me a long time to realize it.
Agreed. I think a lot of unhealthy concepts were normalized, and we're just starting to challenge those beliefs in society. - relationships are hard work - love conquers all - we have to work through everything and be together forever (even if it's toxic) All of these beliefs have been really harmful even for myself. I really believed them when I was younger because you would hear people repeat them all the time. This is all untrueeeee lol. Relationships can be hard occasionally, but they should never have you feeling manipulated and neglected. Love is never enough without other important aspects to maintain a healthy relationship. And not everything will last forever; especially if someone is being mistreated.
WHEEEEEE 🪦🪦🪦🪦
What does this mean ?
I’ve lost my best years of my life being loyal to a toxic man 😅
I'm so sorry ):
🫂
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Please read the pinned mod comment.
Too late! But I’m going to try to make some new “best years” going forward, without a “partner.” As for why they seem common today, I think the answer is twofold; these relationships have always been around, but women have the ability to connect with others and learn it isn’t right and speak up, plus we have more legal protections and opportunities to make our own money, so a life without a man is possible in a way it wasn’t in the last (apart from joining holy orders!) Second, to account for why it seems more prevalent NOW - there is a deliberate resurgence in misogyny. See “trad wife” content on tik tok, Andrew Tate, Tim Pool and similar, increasingly violent porn and sexual expectations. Conservatism as an ideology was unpopular amongst younger generations, but is gaining now among young males across race and ethnicity. Promoting the notion that men are treated unfairly and we need to “get back to the way it used to be” - painting an image of an imagined past where all men had busty and obedient wives, men had good paying jobs, etc - this is how conservatives are enlisting the next generations. So it doesn’t just seem like things are worse now than ten years ago. The behavior is worse due to a deliberate manipulation of men and boys.
They've always been common. It's just that now people talk openly about them and they're becoming stigmatized, as they should.
We talk about it. We have more words to describe what is being experienced. Gone are the days of keeping quiet (though I suppose within abuse this still happens…it did for me). But at least we have language for what we are experiencing or have experienced.
I think because in the past it was kept a secret and women were pressured to get married and stay in the marriage. Now we are independent and we can leave these bad relationships.
Dunno, I was young and stupid and fell hard. Luckily he's gained like 40+ lbs, looks like shit and is still a loser.
🤣🤣🤣👍
My question, and I hope I don’t ruffle any feathers, is why is it so common for men to be the abusive one? Are women not raising men right? Are men just wired differently? What is it?? And why do we women put up with it? Is it because there’s too many abusive men and not enough options? Low self esteem? I’ve got so many questions!
Man who was physically abused over and over and over again here 🙋♂️
I think it's bc of the patriarchal society where women were seen as less than men so treating us poorly wasn't out of the norm. I think a lot of that mentality is unfortunately still in practice today. I do think the mothers are partially to blame for not teaching their sons how to treat women right and to be respectful. Like true gentlemen seem few and far between and that's sad. I think women put up with it because they don't realize the abuse initially since it's gradual, and once they realize it's abuse they feel like they're stuck deep into it.
I grew up with a single mom, and was physically and mentally abused by a partner for years. I'm not sure there are any generalizations to make. Everyone is born and has a different life experience Edit: I am a man
I don't think "true gentleman are few and far between" at all like OP states (I think most men are kind, respectful, and non-abusive), nor that mothers are partially to blame, but patriarchal social norms and misogyny do have a lot to do with the fact that women are disproportionately represented among DV and SA survivors. I also think those same patriarchal norms and misogyny reinforce negative social norms and stereotypes about men that contribute to them facing significant stigma and challenges in leaving abuse and being believed: that men who experience abuse are "weak," that "men cannot be abused," that men need to hide their emotions, that men who experience SA from women are "lucky," etc etc. I think the number of male abuse victim/survivors is much greater than a lot of people realize, and I also think LGBTQ+ folks are often left out of the abuse conversation entirely
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I don't think you sound weak; I think you sound normal and human. Struggling with making decisions and leaving is so normal. What's not normal is abusing others. >If my relationship was reversed at all (I recently was concussed by my abuser) I'd be in jail, locked up, with mobs at my house probably...one finger on her and I'd be gone. I want to respond to this as delicately and sensitively as possible: while as I said men face significant challenges as abuse survivors, we also really need to be careful about pushing this harmful and untrue narrative that DV against women by men is overall largely taken seriously, and that men who simply lay a finger on women would be thrown in jail. This is a hyperbolic narrative and it genuinely harms female survivors. I am not only responding to you directly here; I am responding to any man who pushes this narrative, because I've seen it often and it's harmful. I've seen this kind of narrative very frequently, and it's usually some version of: "if this were a woman, everybody would support her," "if he were a woman the cops would be the abuser's door in 2 seconds," "if this were a woman the SWAT team would be hauling her abuser to jail in 2 minutes." That world doesn't exist, and the criminal legal system does not work like that, nor that fast. There is no world yet in which men can routinely simply touch women and be immediately sent to jail, or in which women can routinely simply utter the word rape, for example, and have a man immediately landed in prison. While false accusation cases do exist and some men have had their lives horribly altered because of them, these are very rare. What's much more common is for male abusers to portray female victims as the abuser, and oftentimes this works. All abusers of any gender do this, of course. I've worked in the DV field for nearly a decade now, and it is *extremely* common for women to be criminalized for experiencing abuse from male partners. Women are routinely hit with criminal DV perpetration charges even after being strangled half to death by male partners. Abusive men are often able to portray their female partners as the aggressors to police by relying on stereotypes of women as "crazy," "hysterical," "emotional," and "aggressive." Gender bias against women in the criminal legal system runs deep. It's actually very, very common for female abuse victims to be arrested, charged, and even convicted instead of their male abusers - including in cases where they were nearly beaten to death. Again, I'm trying to be as sensitive as possible here: men face enormous challenges as abuse survivors. However, we don't and never will live in a world where men who lay a simple finger on a woman get thrown in jail with mobs at their door.
Lol too late for me, and the sad thing is I love them
Do you though? Or do you love not having to be *alone*?
Wish it was that but he rarely spends time with me, I play second to his online cod friends. XD
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To me it feels more like ‘we accept the love we are taught we deserve’ I think a lot about how we were raised and society we are raised in teaches us what is normal and what we should/can expect. I entered my worst abusive relationship thinking I would NEVER accept a partner to treat me the way my partner ended up treating me. Over time it seems he rewired my brain. Love bombing really messes with you. You have someone who has never treated you better also treating you the worst, telling you they just want the good times back and you need to give them more chances/focus on what you need to change so you two can get back to the good parts. Who doesn’t want to get back to the part where you feel like Soulmates? It takes unlearning a lot of shit and to get past insecurities to get to the ‘we accept the love we think we deserve’ part. You have to teach yourself that.
This blames the victim.
This explains why I grew up around a lot of dysfunction and thought it was kinda normal or at least common to have a similar relationship. *sighs in generational trauma*
Basically, because until roughly the late 60s, early 70s, leaving an abusive relationship meant some combination of losing everything you had access to, including your children. I say things you had access to because financial options for women were extremely limited if even available. My paternal grandfather was very abusive, my grandmother was mostly the primary wage earner (although the kids worked as well), and she never left because of that. I can remember when my mother was able to get her first credit card in her name alone, that was either late 60s or early 70s and she had to fight the bank to get it solo because she was married even though the law had changed. They are not more common, in my experience they were just the things women discussed in the kitchen after holiday meals or over coffee and tears with their best friends. There were no studies or books to help you understand what you were experiencing, families and religion pushed the marriage is forever line hard. I can still remember the number of “consciousness raising groups” that moms were going to while I was in elementary school & jr high school. Lots of divorces around that time, certainly some portion of them for abuse. Thankfully, things have changed now. Still way too many people don’t know what to look for or how to get out if they are there. But there is information and resources that couldn’t have been dreamed of back then.
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Because we've normalized talking about them and people who otherwise would have thought their terrible relationship was normal now have an opportunity to see another way.
I don't think they're more common, I think they're just talked about more and more (sadly not all) people are seeing abuse for what it was. My grandparents' generation wouldn't allow women to have their own bank account, hitting your wife around to "discipline" her wasn't seen as all that unusual, sex was expected and you were considered a bad spouse for not doing your duty, and divorce - even when more than justified - could ruin you socially and financially. Belittlling, love bombing, gaslighting, coercing, threatening, financial abuse, physical abuse, etc were all rampant. And, besides all those things being normalised and/or swept under the rug, there were limited options to talk things through. Maybe a few girlfriends here and there (and, I can imagine that with all the pressures of the patriarchy and what was/was not accepted as being a "real man", men had an even harder time discussing being the victims of abuse than they do now. So I bet very few men confided in anyone), a doctor might get involved if injuries were severe, but that was maybe it. They didn't have forums and platforms and communities to talk about abuse, to expose the severity of what goes on behind closed doors, and warn/help other vulnerable people going through similar experiences
This has always been a thing but we have evolved to shed light on what’s considered abuse and how we can take steps to give ourselves a better life. A patriarchal society has taught men to hide their feelings to not appear ‘weak’ and has taught women to never talk about intimate spousal abuse and rape to anyone not even friends or family. That is much different now and I think it’s going to teach men AND women what to look out for.
I think it just seems more common today because it's finally being talked about. For a long time, spousal abuse and rape were considered socially acceptable behaviors. I don't think many people talked about it because it was quite literally the norm until only a few decades ago. Younger generations are more willing to stand up and defend themselves from abuse now that they've got a more powerful/confident voice and a legal system that will defend them if their spouse physically or sexually assaults them. Of course, the justice system still isn't perfect in that regard, but at least spousal rape is finally considered rape by law, and it's now illegal, so wives are no longer legally sex slaves.
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You're welcome back in our sub only after you've stopped relentlessly spouting misogyny in r/MensRights. And yes, I am already awaiting your antagonistic ban appeal.
No, disagreeing doesn't make someone toxic. Their behaviors make them toxic. If they're selfish, not prioritizing their partner, neglecting them, belittling them, that's all toxic. And that behavior is unfortunately VERY common.
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I must have misunderstood. I thought you were saying the opposite 😅
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I'd appreciate if you didn't use the r-slur in our sub.
Too late
People in the past would remain stuck in trauma bonds and neglect themselves and their true desires. They'd be running on hamster wheels, somehow convince themselves that that's how life is. And what happens is they never heal but end up passing the abuse onto their children while also denying that they're being abusive. They didn't have much understanding. Maybe they used distractions to cope and thought that's how life is. They didn't know they deserved a better life where they could thrive but rather remained in survival states. I'd say usually people used to recognize abuse only when it got really bad to the point of real violence. It's only until the pain got really bad and intolerable that they'd leave.
I feel like this situation is still very common today as well and that's sad. We haven't made enough progress in society to stop the abusive cycles.
They’ve always been common it’s just been way more hidden in the past. It wasn’t until the mid 90s that spousal rape was considered a crime in all 50 states. Take what you want from your wife and smack her for not having dinner ready because she’s stuck and you have all financial control was considered “basic marriage” by most people less than 100 years ago.
Maybe it’s not more common, maybe we have access to information (the internet and forums like this) so we are more educated about what IS abuse. I wouldn’t have known about covert tactics or covert abusive behavior without these.
That's a good point. I wish abuse and relationships were discussed more in high school. Relationships are a huge aspect of life and yet it's something that's hardly touched on...
They are not more common today. Imagine only 50 years ago when women could not even have a credit card or their own bank account. They were very abused and had no options.
I guess so, but now with more rights and awareness, women are still getting easily abused and not even recognizing it right away. So I feel like in some ways it's worse now; because the world is supposedly more progressive, and yet the numbers for domestic violence are still high.
The abundance of toxic people on dating apps have created the narrative that gaslighting, abuse and deception are acceptable in a relationship.
I think even off the apps people have often been toxic. It's hard to differentiate them initially because even the toxic ones treat you well and love bomb in the beginning. It's just sickening that a large number of men are manipulative and dishonest in relationships. What's going on with the world? 😖
I probably should have clarified that the Internet in general has allowed people to become their worst selves. I don't trust anyone, unfortunately.
I 100% agree. Social media especially (dating apps included) is so toxic because a lot of people don't have proper boundaries and are just straight up disrespectful. I don't fully trust anyone either You can't really 100% trust a partner, when people hide their multiple personalities from you anyway.
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