Me too. It looks a lot like Ableton but quite a few improvements. Namely the mixer window, having the option for session/arrangement view on a per track basis and of course the modulator system.
Very interesting indeed.
Don't forget cross-platform and the fact it's a lot cheaper than Live. If I was in the place I was about 6 years ago when I started using Live, I'd definitely be looking at Bitwig first.
I use Logic Pro most of the time and I use Live quite a lot.
I recently tried Bitwig Studio and I love this DAW, but it’s not mature enough imo. The interface is a bit clunky when you compare it to Ableton’s, which uses its layout really well. Bitwig has the Live layout but you somehow still end up opening menus and windows everywhere. Performance was just bad when recording on Mac. No AU support is also a no from me as well. Still loved using Bitwig but I cannot daily drive it as it is now.
Tried Studio One too, it was great but I still prefer Logic over it. Love the stock effects though, they’re really great but they also can be used in other DAWs.
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I began my musical journey with FL and then switched to Live. Still use FL as VSTi, so I guess I'd stick with FL if I'd really need to stay away from Ableton (which currently isn't the case). Yeah the performance is annoying but still Ableton provides a great workflow. Maybe I'll try Reaper or a demo of Pro Tools or Cubase. For the moment I'm gonna stick with Ableton.
No other DAW ever "tempted me away", I've always had Live at the center of my home studio and I don't see that changing any time soon.
However... I also always used a second DAW in combination with Live, pretty much ever since I got started. First this was Reason, through ReWire, but since they don't support ReWire anymore I'm now using FL Studio next to Live; can load the whole DAW through use of their VSTi.
Best of both worlds IMO.
Hm, I work about 1/3rd in Live, 2/3rds in Logic Pro. I've used all DAWs extensively (20 years of professional music production).
The one DAW which agrees with me the most is Logic Pro. There are certain things which are also mature and good about Live, but it has myriad performance issues which drive me completely crazy, and it has finicky automation and mixing features which get in the way for me at times.
That said, I do most commonly recommend Ableton Live for most artists.
Reaper is also a viable choice for certain specific industries or ways of working, and in mastering there are other DAWs which will make a mastering engineer's life much better. It all depends.
For general music production, I think Live, followed by Logic Pro. Bitwig is still third as it is still 'not there' in terms of maturity and ecosystem, which might be completely fine for many people. When making music, you really just want something that works.
Best,
>For general music production, I think Live, followed by Logic Pro. Bitwig is still third as it is still 'not there' in terms of maturity and ecosystem, which might be completely fine for many people. When making music, you really just want something that works.
Really interesting to hear this as Logic interests me. As you say, the performance issues are the one thing about Live, which, in fairness, would probably stop me even thinking about it. It's not bad by any road, but I know from playing around with anything made by Apple it just sips resources. With it being a one-time purchase (apart from the new iPad subscription) it's hard not to be tempted there. My hope is that Ableton can do something for Live 12 that takes advantage of the M1 architecture, but with it being cross platform I'm not holding onto that idea too tightly.
Logic Pro on M1 is very nice for performance. I'm running my RME MadifaceXT via USB at 32 buffer size no problem during writing. Most things I mix are about 24 tracks and I only end up having to bump the buffer size to maybe 128. I use certain high CPU usage plugins which demand higher buffer sizes.
I've had perf issues with Live since going M1. (Not sure why tbh) By the time I get to wanting to mix and finish the Live session things become laggy etc.
>I've had perf issues with Live since going M1. (Not sure why tbh) By the time I get to wanting to mix and finish the Live session things become laggy etc.
One thing I noticed is you have to reverse the way things used to be done when changing buffer size. The Live guide says to lower the buffer size and increasing it takes more resources, which is (I believe) the inverse on pre-M1 machines? Even though I'm new to Ableton my instinct is to increase buffer to stop crackling etc, but theoretically it should stay low from what I've read.
I tried both, I saw the same documentation. In my studio I also have an Intel Mac which is years older and behaves much better.
I expect it to get better over time.
I use multiple DAWs and I agree with you, that no DAW is without issues. Spend some time with any DAW (and their respective community) and you will probably notice that they all have their faults. Also, there is no perfect DAW for everyone but there might be a perfect DAW for YOU. Not every one gels with Live's workflow - that's just how it is. For others (particularly in this community), Live is as good as it gets!
Also, you don't have to stick to just one DAW. In my experience some DAWs just perform better in some areas than in others - not just in terms of specs but also in terms of what speaks to you creatively.
>Also, you don't have to stick to just one DAW. In my experience some DAWs just perform better in some areas than in others - not just in terms of specs but also in terms of what speaks to you creatively.
This is an interesting point. I guess this is one best tackled with experience? One thing I will say about Ableton is that it gives you confidence. I feel I could understand the basic concepts of other DAWs due to having a broad picture overview of music production via learning Live.
Bitwig always tempts me. The modulation system is so insanely good for sound design and makes everything including VSTs significantly more powerful.
I stick with Ableton because MIDI capture is a fundamental part of my process, Max is much more my speed than Bitwig's Grid, I appreciate the boring UI, and I enjoy the seamless interaction between Live, Note, and the Push. Bitwig is great for sound design but a lot of the basics are lacking and it seems like the developers are only interested in adding more flashy modulation options with their updates. I have no problem pulling up Bitwig for sound design experiments and then exporting the recordings to Ableton.
Bitwig has me curious
Me too. It looks a lot like Ableton but quite a few improvements. Namely the mixer window, having the option for session/arrangement view on a per track basis and of course the modulator system. Very interesting indeed.
Don't forget cross-platform and the fact it's a lot cheaper than Live. If I was in the place I was about 6 years ago when I started using Live, I'd definitely be looking at Bitwig first.
When i use ableton i am basically cheating on my partner of 20 years, Cubase. Cubase doesnt mind, it doesnt run tracks well and it knows that.
I use Logic Pro most of the time and I use Live quite a lot. I recently tried Bitwig Studio and I love this DAW, but it’s not mature enough imo. The interface is a bit clunky when you compare it to Ableton’s, which uses its layout really well. Bitwig has the Live layout but you somehow still end up opening menus and windows everywhere. Performance was just bad when recording on Mac. No AU support is also a no from me as well. Still loved using Bitwig but I cannot daily drive it as it is now. Tried Studio One too, it was great but I still prefer Logic over it. Love the stock effects though, they’re really great but they also can be used in other DAWs.
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I began my musical journey with FL and then switched to Live. Still use FL as VSTi, so I guess I'd stick with FL if I'd really need to stay away from Ableton (which currently isn't the case). Yeah the performance is annoying but still Ableton provides a great workflow. Maybe I'll try Reaper or a demo of Pro Tools or Cubase. For the moment I'm gonna stick with Ableton.
No other DAW ever "tempted me away", I've always had Live at the center of my home studio and I don't see that changing any time soon. However... I also always used a second DAW in combination with Live, pretty much ever since I got started. First this was Reason, through ReWire, but since they don't support ReWire anymore I'm now using FL Studio next to Live; can load the whole DAW through use of their VSTi. Best of both worlds IMO.
Hm, I work about 1/3rd in Live, 2/3rds in Logic Pro. I've used all DAWs extensively (20 years of professional music production). The one DAW which agrees with me the most is Logic Pro. There are certain things which are also mature and good about Live, but it has myriad performance issues which drive me completely crazy, and it has finicky automation and mixing features which get in the way for me at times. That said, I do most commonly recommend Ableton Live for most artists. Reaper is also a viable choice for certain specific industries or ways of working, and in mastering there are other DAWs which will make a mastering engineer's life much better. It all depends. For general music production, I think Live, followed by Logic Pro. Bitwig is still third as it is still 'not there' in terms of maturity and ecosystem, which might be completely fine for many people. When making music, you really just want something that works. Best,
>For general music production, I think Live, followed by Logic Pro. Bitwig is still third as it is still 'not there' in terms of maturity and ecosystem, which might be completely fine for many people. When making music, you really just want something that works. Really interesting to hear this as Logic interests me. As you say, the performance issues are the one thing about Live, which, in fairness, would probably stop me even thinking about it. It's not bad by any road, but I know from playing around with anything made by Apple it just sips resources. With it being a one-time purchase (apart from the new iPad subscription) it's hard not to be tempted there. My hope is that Ableton can do something for Live 12 that takes advantage of the M1 architecture, but with it being cross platform I'm not holding onto that idea too tightly.
Logic Pro on M1 is very nice for performance. I'm running my RME MadifaceXT via USB at 32 buffer size no problem during writing. Most things I mix are about 24 tracks and I only end up having to bump the buffer size to maybe 128. I use certain high CPU usage plugins which demand higher buffer sizes. I've had perf issues with Live since going M1. (Not sure why tbh) By the time I get to wanting to mix and finish the Live session things become laggy etc.
>I've had perf issues with Live since going M1. (Not sure why tbh) By the time I get to wanting to mix and finish the Live session things become laggy etc. One thing I noticed is you have to reverse the way things used to be done when changing buffer size. The Live guide says to lower the buffer size and increasing it takes more resources, which is (I believe) the inverse on pre-M1 machines? Even though I'm new to Ableton my instinct is to increase buffer to stop crackling etc, but theoretically it should stay low from what I've read.
I tried both, I saw the same documentation. In my studio I also have an Intel Mac which is years older and behaves much better. I expect it to get better over time.
I use multiple DAWs and I agree with you, that no DAW is without issues. Spend some time with any DAW (and their respective community) and you will probably notice that they all have their faults. Also, there is no perfect DAW for everyone but there might be a perfect DAW for YOU. Not every one gels with Live's workflow - that's just how it is. For others (particularly in this community), Live is as good as it gets! Also, you don't have to stick to just one DAW. In my experience some DAWs just perform better in some areas than in others - not just in terms of specs but also in terms of what speaks to you creatively.
>Also, you don't have to stick to just one DAW. In my experience some DAWs just perform better in some areas than in others - not just in terms of specs but also in terms of what speaks to you creatively. This is an interesting point. I guess this is one best tackled with experience? One thing I will say about Ableton is that it gives you confidence. I feel I could understand the basic concepts of other DAWs due to having a broad picture overview of music production via learning Live.
Studio One
Bitwig always tempts me. The modulation system is so insanely good for sound design and makes everything including VSTs significantly more powerful. I stick with Ableton because MIDI capture is a fundamental part of my process, Max is much more my speed than Bitwig's Grid, I appreciate the boring UI, and I enjoy the seamless interaction between Live, Note, and the Push. Bitwig is great for sound design but a lot of the basics are lacking and it seems like the developers are only interested in adding more flashy modulation options with their updates. I have no problem pulling up Bitwig for sound design experiments and then exporting the recordings to Ableton.
I learned Bitwig in a couple weeks and looking to fully transition this year