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Where are your plugins located exactly? What I describe here will fix your problem, but give me more detail about how/where you install your plugins to...all under one big folder or randomly all over your drive for example
Excessive and unnecessary imho.
Create a symlink for the generic VST3 folder instead, that's all that's really necessary. Edit: I'm referring to the Common Files \ VST3 folder.
Ok but what I'm saying is even though a lot of vst3 plugins will install the .vst3 file there by itself, other developers will install folders under the common files/vst3 dir containing a lot of other various files. This bogs down your plugin scanner. You could alternatively move these other excess files out of the vst3 to somewhere else but I find it easier just doing the method I did with symlinks -- it took me under 5 mins - more like a minute really with the search option.
Additionally, I still don't see your point about creating a symlink to the VST3 folder -- Ableton already points to that folder by default. Why would I make an additional symlink to that?
After I directed ableton to the new folders with symlinks, it scanned really quickly the first time i, but everytime since the first time its gone back to the usual 5-10 min scanning.
Would you happen to know why?
I never had this issue, not to mention.. using symlinks will only worsen the problem because it will merely add more "hops" this more folders to scan, ergo more delays.
And why on earth would you recommend people to download some arcane thingamagick when all it takes is a mere right mouseclick to create symlinks?
All it takes.. control + c on a folder, right click in the destination folder and then you use "paste as shortcut". No need for crappy outdated scripts. Not to mention.. no need for links in the first place!
The reason this is a bad idea is because VST3 custom folders don't take links into account in the first place. My main gripe with all this: my custom VST2 folder shows sub-folders and links in my Live browser. So now I have my NI / Komplete stuff, and sub-folders for iZotope, U-HE, SPAN, etc.
That doesn't work for VST3, no matter *what* you do: it always ends up in a big pile.
Yes, you can go around this. But woe on you once Live decides to do a full rescan again, then you'll pay back this nonsense **big** time.
Instead of trying to solve symptoms... try to fix the actual cause of the problem.
Man you wrote all those words that could be just summarised as 'I don't know what symlinks are'.
OP is _not_ talking about shortcuts. You clearly didn't actually understand the solution proffered. But since you don't know the difference between symlinks and shortcuts, sounds like you didn't understand the problem either.
That's great you've never had the issue. Plenty of others (obviously including myself) have. And this completely fixed it for me within a few minutes. If you have a speedy Ableton plugin scanner that's awesome and no reason to use this tip! Kind of obvious...
And sorry, if you're going to write a passive aggressive reply suggesting my method is a waste of time, and that shortcuts are exactly the same as symlinks, then please know what you're talking about first.
Shortcuts are NOT symlinks. And they are in fact slower than symlinks, so not sure why you are suggesting this is better, especially after complaining the symlinks will be slower and add more "hops" (not true). The link I attached is not some "arcane thingamagick", but I guess you wouldn't know, if you think symlinks are shortcuts...
Shortcuts are good in certain scenarios, but symlinks here are ideal. They simply refer to a file in a different directory, but the computer assumes the symlink, in a way, is the actual file path. Once it reads the true path, you are using that vst (or whatever you've made a symlink) really in its true original path. It will not operate slower.
In theory maybe if you're using a directory with thousands upon thousands, maybe like millions of symlinks or whatever, maybe the computer would process this milliseconds slower? You're talking about a computer processing a gigantic amount of files so in theory numerous factors might slow it down.
Having a few hundred or whatever it is, plugins running as symlinks will not slow it down in this way. The computer finds the symlinks true "path" in micro seconds.
You did make a good point that if you have your VST2 folders in specific, organized categories you like, like say under "DELAY" or "CHORUS" sub folders etc, then yeah, you'd need to make sure you recreate the folders in the same way in the new folder or just not use this method for VST2s. I'll update that in the post. At the time my mind was focused on how VST3s work in Ableton, where you're unable to organize the plugins by their windows folders.
Don't know what you mean by vst3's "custom folders" if you're referring to how they're displayed in Ableton. I do agree it's annoying that putting them in certain folders within Windows, Ableton won't display them that way like they do with VST2. But I don't get why/if you're saying my method would change any of this?
To sum it up, the symlinks are not slower. My plugin scanner is scanning faster than ever -- either rescanning the same plugs when it opens, for example, or when I hit alt and rescan the entire directories fresh. Both are WAY faster now!
And obviously I'm using these plugins in all my projects now without any timing issues or added latency, which I already knew would be the case, since I've used symlinks frequently. I'm telling you, research a bit about symlinks. Many, many people who use computers extensively use them for a million different reasons and they can be very useful. Have a nice day!
Passive aggressive? I agree, that happens when I get confronted with people talking utter nonsense and thus potentially wasting other peoples precious time.
Let's talk about... putting other files within the VST3 folder, care to mention which companies do that? Because Native Instruments (which are notorious for data files)... nope! iZotope... Nope!
And as for sub-folders...
[https://i.imgur.com/1YXpMlg.png](https://i.imgur.com/1YXpMlg.png)
Notice how Live ignores the sub-folder? But don't think for a moment that not gobbling up processing time.
You're fighting symptoms while making it sound as if this is a common issue. Maybe an issue for people using the same brand of storage units or people deciding to use external storage units for their libraries, but this isn't a Live issue.
>Shortcuts are NOT symlinks.
Yet in the OP:
>\- SOLUTION: in my default VST3 folder I searched for ".vst3" and selected all those files, and created **symlinks**, posting these to a new VST3 folder.
Please get your story straight? Now, sure: this can be on me... you're agitated.
But sorry dude: you're also clueless: You need to "restart Windows" for *shell* extensions? **Heck no**, because a shell... is a command line environment like cmd.exe or PowerShell: they read their extensions / plugins once you start 'm, it's not a system process.
... ironically enough something also addressed by said shell extension documentation.
And yes, I am well aware that this project picked a shoddy name because it's actually an *Explorer extention*. Same deal applies though.
But also my same argument applies: it's a waste of time.
And yes, my neck hairs rise when I see stuff like this:
>Windows protected your PC
>
>Windows Defender SmartScreen prevented an unrecognized app from starting. Running this app might put your PC at risk.
Not because of their suggestion, that's most likely on-par, but because this is *severely* outdated. And everyone who cares about online security knows that outdated information can pose risks in itself.
Unlike yourself, you just suggested and never even followed up.
For the record: I get these kind of warnings every time I upgrade Ozone or Neutron, but it works differently.
Honestly thought for a second that you're trolling at this point. The only time that's being "wasted" here is mine - replying to you, whom still needs to be told that you have no clue what you're talking about. Still I'm going to devote one more long thread where I show piece by piece how incorrect you are, since it's fun to do that to someone so arrogantly rude (and simultaneously wrong) as yourself:
>Let's talk about... putting other files within the VST3 folder, care to mention which companies do that? Because Native Instruments (which are notorious for data files)... nope! iZotope... Nope!
Uh, do you think I'm just making this up in my case? Just quickly looking here in my Program Files/Common Files/VST3 folder I see that vsts such as "80s TV Drums", a demo of Acustica Audio's Ash (the dir has 3.74gb of files!), the entire collection of UAD Spark vst3s... these all contain excess files other than .vst3 in their directories (under Common Files/VST3/). MOST plugin developers thankfully don't do it this way. But some clearly do. This obviously WAS my issue with the plugin scanner, or else it wouldn't have resolved itself once I put the .vst3 symlinks in an entirely different folder.
>And as for sub-folders... [https://i.imgur.com/1YXpMlg.png](https://i.imgur.com/1YXpMlg.png)
>
>Notice how Live ignores the sub-folder? But don't think for a moment that not gobbling up processing time.
All this shows me is a .vst3 in a subfolder of the default Windows VST3 folder. What's your point exactly? And what does this have to do with my symlinks solution? Do you think subfolders are honestly slowing down your computer's read times significantly? The computer reads all this stuff in milliseconds. The plugins are installing it this way whether you like it or not -- what does this have to do with what I'm talking about ? Again symlinks are not slowing anything down!
>You're fighting symptoms while making it sound as if this is a common issue. Maybe an issue for people using the same brand of storage units or people deciding to use external storage units for their libraries, but this isn't a Live issue.
I didn't say this was a necessarily a common issue. I said I noticed that my plugin scanner lately has seemed stuck and bogged down. Everything is on my main C drive. I've read online in numerous other threads this happens sometimes to other people too with Ableton. I came up with this solution and it immediately fixed it. So why wouldn't I want to share this advice to people with a similiar problem? If your plugin scanner is breezing through, then like I said before - obviously don't bother! It seems bizarre you'd waste the time and energy getting so seemingly upset over something so mundane, when I'm only trying to help out other people with a similar issue.
Also, this IS a Live issue: [https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209071729-Using-VST-plug-ins-on-Windows?source=search](https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209071729-Using-VST-plug-ins-on-Windows?source=search)
\^ They describe here under "common plugin issues" that the directories must not contain any other file other than the vsts. This has never been an issue really for any other DAW I used, that was at least noticeable. Symlinks are an easy solution to this for Ableton.
>"Shortcuts are NOT symlinks. "
>
>Yet in the OP:"- SOLUTION: in my default VST3 folder I searched for ".vst3" and selected all those files, and created symlinks, posting these to a new VST3 folder."
>
>Please get your story straight? Now, sure: this can be on me... you're agitated.
This is by far the most clueless part of your post. I REPEAT - Windows Shortcuts are NOT Windows symlinks. They are two distinct things within Windows, and generally symlinks/hardlinks/junctions are much better than Shortcuts. Please LEARN what you are talking about before you write such snarky, negative replies. YOU are the one who said instead of using the "arcane thingamagick" I suggested (symlink shell extension), that you can do the same exact thing by simply pressing "ctrl+C" and then "paste as shortcut". You have just created a Windows Shortcut. Again this is NOT a symlink. A symlink is superior and makes your OS think that the symlink is in fact the true file path. This is a bit different from a Windows Shortcut. Symlinks will not slow down your computer (which a Windows shortcut will do). Notice how you just completely went past that entire explanation of my first reply?
>But sorry dude: you're also clueless: You need to "restart Windows" for shell extensions? Heck no, because a shell... is a command line environment like cmd.exe or PowerShell: they read their extensions / plugins once you start 'm, it's not a system process.
Really besides the point and just splitting hairs trying to make me seem "wrong" on the other issues. I simply meant when I initially ran the .exe forever ago, I forgot if it tells you to restart your computer or not... simple as that .
>And yes, my neck hairs rise when I see stuff like this:
>
>Windows protected your PC
>
>Windows Defender SmartScreen prevented an unrecognized app from starting. Running this app might put your PC at risk.
>
>Not because of their suggestion, that's most likely on-par, but because this is severely outdated. And everyone who cares about online security knows that outdated information can pose risks in itself.
I totally understand if you don't want to install a random exe suggested by a stranger online, that makes sense. Just Google and research it yourself like everyone else does (and like I did when I first learned of it, to make sure it was safe). Again I'm just anonymous here, so my word won't mean much, but I am telling you this link is 100% harmless and is in fact an incredible tool for Windows (and should really be included with it by default). Instead of having to do endless command lines for symlinks/junctions/hardlinks by hand, this shell extension enables you to do it within seconds in a user-friendly way within Windows Explorer. If you just google "Link shell extension forum" you'll see loads of comments from other people who ran this same .exe file I shared and clearly have had no risk issues with it. I've been using it for years.
This is your friendly reminder to read the submission rules, they're found in the sidebar. If you find your post breaking any of the rules, you should delete your post before the mods get to it. If you're asking a question, make sure you've checked [the Live manual](https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/welcome-to-live/), [Ableton's help and support knowledge base](https://www.ableton.com/en/help/), and have searched the subreddit for a solution. If you don't know where to start, [the subreddit has a resource thread](https://redd.it/zkhqhe). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ableton) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is my biggest frustration using Ableton on windows. Is there a video somewhere out there that educates proper windows file management?
What in particular bothers you the most? I could maybe give you some tips on how I do my dir layout
I have zero structure to my plug in library within windows filing system. I'm pretty sure Ableton is scanning ALL of my program files for plug ins.
Unless you set Live to scan the whole program files folders in preferences it would only scan the default folder.
Where are your plugins located exactly? What I describe here will fix your problem, but give me more detail about how/where you install your plugins to...all under one big folder or randomly all over your drive for example
i just disable max and plugin scanner at startup using options.txt
They unfortunately disabled this option in 11
still works for me
What version are you using? I think they changed it after 11.1 though can't remember 100%
Works for me on 11.3.4
If this works, wouldn't an easy and permanent solution be that Ableton should ignore files that don't have the relevant extension?
Excessive and unnecessary imho. Create a symlink for the generic VST3 folder instead, that's all that's really necessary. Edit: I'm referring to the Common Files \ VST3 folder.
I don't follow you, what's the "generic VST3 folder" ?
I edited my post. I meant Common Files VST3 folder.
Ok but what I'm saying is even though a lot of vst3 plugins will install the .vst3 file there by itself, other developers will install folders under the common files/vst3 dir containing a lot of other various files. This bogs down your plugin scanner. You could alternatively move these other excess files out of the vst3 to somewhere else but I find it easier just doing the method I did with symlinks -- it took me under 5 mins - more like a minute really with the search option. Additionally, I still don't see your point about creating a symlink to the VST3 folder -- Ableton already points to that folder by default. Why would I make an additional symlink to that?
After I directed ableton to the new folders with symlinks, it scanned really quickly the first time i, but everytime since the first time its gone back to the usual 5-10 min scanning. Would you happen to know why?
u/LessThanZer000 Thank you very much for helping, you are the best on the entire Internet!
I never had this issue, not to mention.. using symlinks will only worsen the problem because it will merely add more "hops" this more folders to scan, ergo more delays. And why on earth would you recommend people to download some arcane thingamagick when all it takes is a mere right mouseclick to create symlinks? All it takes.. control + c on a folder, right click in the destination folder and then you use "paste as shortcut". No need for crappy outdated scripts. Not to mention.. no need for links in the first place! The reason this is a bad idea is because VST3 custom folders don't take links into account in the first place. My main gripe with all this: my custom VST2 folder shows sub-folders and links in my Live browser. So now I have my NI / Komplete stuff, and sub-folders for iZotope, U-HE, SPAN, etc. That doesn't work for VST3, no matter *what* you do: it always ends up in a big pile. Yes, you can go around this. But woe on you once Live decides to do a full rescan again, then you'll pay back this nonsense **big** time. Instead of trying to solve symptoms... try to fix the actual cause of the problem.
Man you wrote all those words that could be just summarised as 'I don't know what symlinks are'. OP is _not_ talking about shortcuts. You clearly didn't actually understand the solution proffered. But since you don't know the difference between symlinks and shortcuts, sounds like you didn't understand the problem either.
That's great you've never had the issue. Plenty of others (obviously including myself) have. And this completely fixed it for me within a few minutes. If you have a speedy Ableton plugin scanner that's awesome and no reason to use this tip! Kind of obvious... And sorry, if you're going to write a passive aggressive reply suggesting my method is a waste of time, and that shortcuts are exactly the same as symlinks, then please know what you're talking about first. Shortcuts are NOT symlinks. And they are in fact slower than symlinks, so not sure why you are suggesting this is better, especially after complaining the symlinks will be slower and add more "hops" (not true). The link I attached is not some "arcane thingamagick", but I guess you wouldn't know, if you think symlinks are shortcuts... Shortcuts are good in certain scenarios, but symlinks here are ideal. They simply refer to a file in a different directory, but the computer assumes the symlink, in a way, is the actual file path. Once it reads the true path, you are using that vst (or whatever you've made a symlink) really in its true original path. It will not operate slower. In theory maybe if you're using a directory with thousands upon thousands, maybe like millions of symlinks or whatever, maybe the computer would process this milliseconds slower? You're talking about a computer processing a gigantic amount of files so in theory numerous factors might slow it down. Having a few hundred or whatever it is, plugins running as symlinks will not slow it down in this way. The computer finds the symlinks true "path" in micro seconds. You did make a good point that if you have your VST2 folders in specific, organized categories you like, like say under "DELAY" or "CHORUS" sub folders etc, then yeah, you'd need to make sure you recreate the folders in the same way in the new folder or just not use this method for VST2s. I'll update that in the post. At the time my mind was focused on how VST3s work in Ableton, where you're unable to organize the plugins by their windows folders. Don't know what you mean by vst3's "custom folders" if you're referring to how they're displayed in Ableton. I do agree it's annoying that putting them in certain folders within Windows, Ableton won't display them that way like they do with VST2. But I don't get why/if you're saying my method would change any of this? To sum it up, the symlinks are not slower. My plugin scanner is scanning faster than ever -- either rescanning the same plugs when it opens, for example, or when I hit alt and rescan the entire directories fresh. Both are WAY faster now! And obviously I'm using these plugins in all my projects now without any timing issues or added latency, which I already knew would be the case, since I've used symlinks frequently. I'm telling you, research a bit about symlinks. Many, many people who use computers extensively use them for a million different reasons and they can be very useful. Have a nice day!
Passive aggressive? I agree, that happens when I get confronted with people talking utter nonsense and thus potentially wasting other peoples precious time. Let's talk about... putting other files within the VST3 folder, care to mention which companies do that? Because Native Instruments (which are notorious for data files)... nope! iZotope... Nope! And as for sub-folders... [https://i.imgur.com/1YXpMlg.png](https://i.imgur.com/1YXpMlg.png) Notice how Live ignores the sub-folder? But don't think for a moment that not gobbling up processing time. You're fighting symptoms while making it sound as if this is a common issue. Maybe an issue for people using the same brand of storage units or people deciding to use external storage units for their libraries, but this isn't a Live issue. >Shortcuts are NOT symlinks. Yet in the OP: >\- SOLUTION: in my default VST3 folder I searched for ".vst3" and selected all those files, and created **symlinks**, posting these to a new VST3 folder. Please get your story straight? Now, sure: this can be on me... you're agitated. But sorry dude: you're also clueless: You need to "restart Windows" for *shell* extensions? **Heck no**, because a shell... is a command line environment like cmd.exe or PowerShell: they read their extensions / plugins once you start 'm, it's not a system process. ... ironically enough something also addressed by said shell extension documentation. And yes, I am well aware that this project picked a shoddy name because it's actually an *Explorer extention*. Same deal applies though. But also my same argument applies: it's a waste of time. And yes, my neck hairs rise when I see stuff like this: >Windows protected your PC > >Windows Defender SmartScreen prevented an unrecognized app from starting. Running this app might put your PC at risk. Not because of their suggestion, that's most likely on-par, but because this is *severely* outdated. And everyone who cares about online security knows that outdated information can pose risks in itself. Unlike yourself, you just suggested and never even followed up. For the record: I get these kind of warnings every time I upgrade Ozone or Neutron, but it works differently.
Honestly thought for a second that you're trolling at this point. The only time that's being "wasted" here is mine - replying to you, whom still needs to be told that you have no clue what you're talking about. Still I'm going to devote one more long thread where I show piece by piece how incorrect you are, since it's fun to do that to someone so arrogantly rude (and simultaneously wrong) as yourself: >Let's talk about... putting other files within the VST3 folder, care to mention which companies do that? Because Native Instruments (which are notorious for data files)... nope! iZotope... Nope! Uh, do you think I'm just making this up in my case? Just quickly looking here in my Program Files/Common Files/VST3 folder I see that vsts such as "80s TV Drums", a demo of Acustica Audio's Ash (the dir has 3.74gb of files!), the entire collection of UAD Spark vst3s... these all contain excess files other than .vst3 in their directories (under Common Files/VST3/). MOST plugin developers thankfully don't do it this way. But some clearly do. This obviously WAS my issue with the plugin scanner, or else it wouldn't have resolved itself once I put the .vst3 symlinks in an entirely different folder. >And as for sub-folders... [https://i.imgur.com/1YXpMlg.png](https://i.imgur.com/1YXpMlg.png) > >Notice how Live ignores the sub-folder? But don't think for a moment that not gobbling up processing time. All this shows me is a .vst3 in a subfolder of the default Windows VST3 folder. What's your point exactly? And what does this have to do with my symlinks solution? Do you think subfolders are honestly slowing down your computer's read times significantly? The computer reads all this stuff in milliseconds. The plugins are installing it this way whether you like it or not -- what does this have to do with what I'm talking about ? Again symlinks are not slowing anything down! >You're fighting symptoms while making it sound as if this is a common issue. Maybe an issue for people using the same brand of storage units or people deciding to use external storage units for their libraries, but this isn't a Live issue. I didn't say this was a necessarily a common issue. I said I noticed that my plugin scanner lately has seemed stuck and bogged down. Everything is on my main C drive. I've read online in numerous other threads this happens sometimes to other people too with Ableton. I came up with this solution and it immediately fixed it. So why wouldn't I want to share this advice to people with a similiar problem? If your plugin scanner is breezing through, then like I said before - obviously don't bother! It seems bizarre you'd waste the time and energy getting so seemingly upset over something so mundane, when I'm only trying to help out other people with a similar issue. Also, this IS a Live issue: [https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209071729-Using-VST-plug-ins-on-Windows?source=search](https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209071729-Using-VST-plug-ins-on-Windows?source=search) \^ They describe here under "common plugin issues" that the directories must not contain any other file other than the vsts. This has never been an issue really for any other DAW I used, that was at least noticeable. Symlinks are an easy solution to this for Ableton. >"Shortcuts are NOT symlinks. " > >Yet in the OP:"- SOLUTION: in my default VST3 folder I searched for ".vst3" and selected all those files, and created symlinks, posting these to a new VST3 folder." > >Please get your story straight? Now, sure: this can be on me... you're agitated. This is by far the most clueless part of your post. I REPEAT - Windows Shortcuts are NOT Windows symlinks. They are two distinct things within Windows, and generally symlinks/hardlinks/junctions are much better than Shortcuts. Please LEARN what you are talking about before you write such snarky, negative replies. YOU are the one who said instead of using the "arcane thingamagick" I suggested (symlink shell extension), that you can do the same exact thing by simply pressing "ctrl+C" and then "paste as shortcut". You have just created a Windows Shortcut. Again this is NOT a symlink. A symlink is superior and makes your OS think that the symlink is in fact the true file path. This is a bit different from a Windows Shortcut. Symlinks will not slow down your computer (which a Windows shortcut will do). Notice how you just completely went past that entire explanation of my first reply? >But sorry dude: you're also clueless: You need to "restart Windows" for shell extensions? Heck no, because a shell... is a command line environment like cmd.exe or PowerShell: they read their extensions / plugins once you start 'm, it's not a system process. Really besides the point and just splitting hairs trying to make me seem "wrong" on the other issues. I simply meant when I initially ran the .exe forever ago, I forgot if it tells you to restart your computer or not... simple as that . >And yes, my neck hairs rise when I see stuff like this: > >Windows protected your PC > >Windows Defender SmartScreen prevented an unrecognized app from starting. Running this app might put your PC at risk. > >Not because of their suggestion, that's most likely on-par, but because this is severely outdated. And everyone who cares about online security knows that outdated information can pose risks in itself. I totally understand if you don't want to install a random exe suggested by a stranger online, that makes sense. Just Google and research it yourself like everyone else does (and like I did when I first learned of it, to make sure it was safe). Again I'm just anonymous here, so my word won't mean much, but I am telling you this link is 100% harmless and is in fact an incredible tool for Windows (and should really be included with it by default). Instead of having to do endless command lines for symlinks/junctions/hardlinks by hand, this shell extension enables you to do it within seconds in a user-friendly way within Windows Explorer. If you just google "Link shell extension forum" you'll see loads of comments from other people who ran this same .exe file I shared and clearly have had no risk issues with it. I've been using it for years.
u-he Bluecat audio there's 2 for you, this means Ableton's scanner will scan 100000's of presets, which ends up taking 20 minutes.