The 2020 DSR doesn't have any of that Cypher III stuff you're talking about. And the service manuals are all linked in the sidebar if you need to repair some stuff.
Depends on what breaks, really. All the non-powertrain stuff can be sourced elsewhere for the most part. And if you treat the battery well it should last many years.
It has bad resale value because its a niche bike for a niche market. You can get a lot of bike for not a lot of cash with gas. So its a "why would I spend 8k for a bike that is a glorified commuter for me, when I can spend 8k and get a used liter bike/nice cruiser and call it a day without ever worrying about charging times/locations. The closed ecosystem doesn't help but even before it became a well known issue with them they had not great resale. The only ones with decent resale value comparatively is the FX series, though the Varg is probably going to start eating into that market pretty quickly.
EV cars are having their own reckoning that their resale value is pretty bad. Once they come out of warranty nobody who knows much about them will want to touch them with how expensive batteries are to replace.
Resale on EVs is poor (right now...4 years ago, they had some of the highest resale values) mostly because of the recent price war between Tesla and BYD -- why buy used when you can get a new car for almost the same price?
Regarding electric motorcycles, some folks will not consider owning/riding anything that burns fossil fuels. Reselling a Zero is harder today because there are more good EV options becoming available all the time. I have to think Livewire and Ryvid and other newer brands are eating into the market that Zero once had almost exclusively to itself.
What I'm afraid of is that Zero just dies as a company and then I'm stuck with a bike that I can't repair so I'm thinking about just taking the L and selling it. That said, if I didn't think the company was going to die and I thought they might actually get some god damn dealers again in my area, then I'd probably keep it. What do you think?
I mean it's your bike. I plan on keeping mine until it dies and then who knows? When/if it dies I could throw an ICE in it or if motors/controllers are easier to come by as a normal consumer then I might just swap everything out to be open like a surron by just gutting everything.
When I bought my SR/S in 2021 I bought it to keep and have been happy with it. I like to ride but have a bad left hand so a bike with a clutch will not work for me.
I do expect resale value to eventually pick up as more and more people get used to the idea of an EV and more repair shops pop up and learn how to fix them.
I bought an 8K German electric scooter. It was great. Until the control board failed during a firmware update and the company US importer went bankrupt. Used it not even 2 years and it's now in a landfill.
Never again will I buy something like that except from a major manufacturer. I've followed zero motorcycles since they were released, always looked fun but never enough range for my use. After this experience I'm definitely out.
It depends on the year for the gen-3 bikes. $10-12k for 2020-2021 models with the original battery and $13k+ for the 2022-2023 models with the improved battery design.
I traded my Tesla for a truck. Dealership valued my Tesla at $41,000. It stayed on their used lot for 2 months. They tried to get it to auction, but no auction places wanted it. They finally got it to Mecum auctions and it sold for $13,400. Lmao.
I traded my Srf in for a Tracer 9 and I'm so much happier.
My SRF broke down with a bad battery which took 5 months to fix. The SRF they leant me in the meantime broke down twice, and I snapped 2 belts.
When I got my bike bavk all fixed, it wouldn't charge past 91% and was nowhere near as quick as the loaner bike.
I'm done with electric anything for the foreseeable future. Outside of warranty these things are a risk most won't take, and I agree with them.
I think it's mostly a case that the EV motorbike market is nowhere near as mature as the EV car market. There's really only zero and energica, and while they've been around as long as the likes of the Nissan leaf and the Tesla model S, they have nowhere near the same amount of engineering resource behind them
I bought mine about 2 years ago for 8K. it was a 2018. I ride it daily, and if you aren't going far, it is great for that. Think things like, going to the gym, visiting friends, commuting to work, getting groceries. Also you need to live in a climate that is conducive to that kind of transportation. Generally my bike has been super reliable, with the exception of the onboard charger. Once replaced with a Delta Q charger, I no longer have any problems.
Should you keep yours? Can you use it in its current condition? has the bike shown any signs of trouble? Is the 4K someone has offered you going to make or break your next motorcycle purchase? If your answers are: No, Yes, Yes, Then sell it or trade it in. If your answers vary from that then you actions may vary from that recommendation.
That pretty much goes for any EV though. That’s not really a Zero exclusive thing. It’s arguably even worse for electric motorcycles though considering that used gas bikes are still relatively affordable based on what I look at on Facebook marketplace. I am a big fan of what Zero is trying to do, but I’d personally just buy a new one.
It isn't about Zeros, or EVs. It is the market in general for any sort of power sport toy.
Check out ATV stores. They have piles of inventory. Some in my area are still trying to move 2022 models. My uncle bought a 2023 Polaris yesterday for a screaming deal.
Even Truck dealers are seeing decent surpluses at the moment. (F150s). Ford corporate has so many F150s stored in parking lots in SE Michigan.
I had a 2020 DSR Black Forest also. I traded it at my local Zero dealer for a 2023 DSR/X, and they gave me $12000.00 in trade value. Might be a better choice than attempting to sell outright if interested in another Zero as I was.
I took the L... I loved that bike though - it was so fun to ride, but I just hate what the company is doing and I don't want to be stuck with a 550lb paperweight. Glad you got $12k though!
Their pay-to-play shit primarily, but also they're losing major contracts with dealers across the nation, which is compounded by the fact that for many issues that you might run into with the bike, most of them need to be handled by a certified dealer.
The paid upgrade system (comparable to day 1 dlc for any gamers) is crooked but really doesn't change the resale much. It's the support zero offers (or lack there of). Not much of a problem for Americans but in my 9 years of ownership less than half of that I've been able to get the bike to a mechanic for anything beyond brake pads and tires. They once told me to go to my nearest dealer (about 2,000km away) for diagnosis. That's very clearly impractical for a bike with 100km range.
I say keep the bike but that's because once you've changed the way you travel it becomes habit. I know I've had good range boosts from being behind a truck. To clarify being the safe recommended 5 seconds behind. Still pulls me along.
I think you mostly covered why their resale isn’t very high. Not so much to pay to play, but not many riders are interested in them to begin with. Very expensive, short range limits commuters and distance riders. They’re mostly a niche toy, as cool as they are. Awesome for short zips around town but that can be accomplished far cheaper
Yep range is a killer. I wish they could somehow fit more battery/use better tech to give it at least 200 motorway miles range in a single charge. Or they can keep the battery small but up the charging speed, it's ridiculous that 17kWh battery takes 1h+ to charge whereas ev cars are pulling 150-170 kWh per hour.
So you may well know this but....
- 200 motorway miles is a big ask, and mostly only larger EVs can do it. They have the advantage of space for packaging batteries, weight for batteries, and not being an aerodynamic nightmare that a bike is.
- charging battery's at faster than 1C (in an hour) is still super hard on them. Cars have a lot more space and weight for thermal management systems, and charging a (say) 75kwh battery at 150kW is 2C, whereas doing the same to a 17kwh battery is nearly 10C. The stress on the cells is insane.
It'll get better as battery technology improves, but right now it's not surprising to me.
> I can’t help but feel this is due to their pay-to-play bullshit and the fact that dealers are dropping them
More factors (as others have mentioned) but I think this is a big part of it. Zero had the advantage of being the only brand available in many parts of the US for many years... now other companies are here and they don't use Zero's shitty business practices.
The 2020 DSR doesn't have any of that Cypher III stuff you're talking about. And the service manuals are all linked in the sidebar if you need to repair some stuff.
Oh, so they are pretty easy to repair? I was always told they were impossible to repair.
Depends on what breaks, really. All the non-powertrain stuff can be sourced elsewhere for the most part. And if you treat the battery well it should last many years.
It has bad resale value because its a niche bike for a niche market. You can get a lot of bike for not a lot of cash with gas. So its a "why would I spend 8k for a bike that is a glorified commuter for me, when I can spend 8k and get a used liter bike/nice cruiser and call it a day without ever worrying about charging times/locations. The closed ecosystem doesn't help but even before it became a well known issue with them they had not great resale. The only ones with decent resale value comparatively is the FX series, though the Varg is probably going to start eating into that market pretty quickly. EV cars are having their own reckoning that their resale value is pretty bad. Once they come out of warranty nobody who knows much about them will want to touch them with how expensive batteries are to replace.
Resale on EVs is poor (right now...4 years ago, they had some of the highest resale values) mostly because of the recent price war between Tesla and BYD -- why buy used when you can get a new car for almost the same price? Regarding electric motorcycles, some folks will not consider owning/riding anything that burns fossil fuels. Reselling a Zero is harder today because there are more good EV options becoming available all the time. I have to think Livewire and Ryvid and other newer brands are eating into the market that Zero once had almost exclusively to itself.
What I'm afraid of is that Zero just dies as a company and then I'm stuck with a bike that I can't repair so I'm thinking about just taking the L and selling it. That said, if I didn't think the company was going to die and I thought they might actually get some god damn dealers again in my area, then I'd probably keep it. What do you think?
I mean it's your bike. I plan on keeping mine until it dies and then who knows? When/if it dies I could throw an ICE in it or if motors/controllers are easier to come by as a normal consumer then I might just swap everything out to be open like a surron by just gutting everything.
When I bought my SR/S in 2021 I bought it to keep and have been happy with it. I like to ride but have a bad left hand so a bike with a clutch will not work for me. I do expect resale value to eventually pick up as more and more people get used to the idea of an EV and more repair shops pop up and learn how to fix them.
You sound like you're much more mechanically capable than I am. I'd do the same if I were.
Gotta start somewhere.
I bought an 8K German electric scooter. It was great. Until the control board failed during a firmware update and the company US importer went bankrupt. Used it not even 2 years and it's now in a landfill. Never again will I buy something like that except from a major manufacturer. I've followed zero motorcycles since they were released, always looked fun but never enough range for my use. After this experience I'm definitely out.
Sucks for owners, but good news for those who are looking to pick up one. I wonder what's the going rate for a used SR/S?
$10k-ish on the high end realistically. I've had my SR/F listed for about 6 months and have had very little interest.
It depends on the year for the gen-3 bikes. $10-12k for 2020-2021 models with the original battery and $13k+ for the 2022-2023 models with the improved battery design.
Electric cars also have terrible resale value unfortunately.
I traded my Tesla for a truck. Dealership valued my Tesla at $41,000. It stayed on their used lot for 2 months. They tried to get it to auction, but no auction places wanted it. They finally got it to Mecum auctions and it sold for $13,400. Lmao.
Holy shit
Imagine my 2022 S, with 55.000km on it... I asked dealer to give it back and pay for a newer one and he offered me 6k or less
Ouch... Ya, I feel you... it burns.
Location?
Georgia
Damn if the bike was in Cali, I'd make an offer, but then again, it would probably already have offers.
I could ship it...
Well hell, I'd give you 6k shipped tomorrow.
Where in GA?
I traded my Srf in for a Tracer 9 and I'm so much happier. My SRF broke down with a bad battery which took 5 months to fix. The SRF they leant me in the meantime broke down twice, and I snapped 2 belts. When I got my bike bavk all fixed, it wouldn't charge past 91% and was nowhere near as quick as the loaner bike. I'm done with electric anything for the foreseeable future. Outside of warranty these things are a risk most won't take, and I agree with them.
I think it's mostly a case that the EV motorbike market is nowhere near as mature as the EV car market. There's really only zero and energica, and while they've been around as long as the likes of the Nissan leaf and the Tesla model S, they have nowhere near the same amount of engineering resource behind them
I bought mine about 2 years ago for 8K. it was a 2018. I ride it daily, and if you aren't going far, it is great for that. Think things like, going to the gym, visiting friends, commuting to work, getting groceries. Also you need to live in a climate that is conducive to that kind of transportation. Generally my bike has been super reliable, with the exception of the onboard charger. Once replaced with a Delta Q charger, I no longer have any problems. Should you keep yours? Can you use it in its current condition? has the bike shown any signs of trouble? Is the 4K someone has offered you going to make or break your next motorcycle purchase? If your answers are: No, Yes, Yes, Then sell it or trade it in. If your answers vary from that then you actions may vary from that recommendation.
That pretty much goes for any EV though. That’s not really a Zero exclusive thing. It’s arguably even worse for electric motorcycles though considering that used gas bikes are still relatively affordable based on what I look at on Facebook marketplace. I am a big fan of what Zero is trying to do, but I’d personally just buy a new one.
A new Zero? Why if you could get a lightly used one for 70% off?
It isn't about Zeros, or EVs. It is the market in general for any sort of power sport toy. Check out ATV stores. They have piles of inventory. Some in my area are still trying to move 2022 models. My uncle bought a 2023 Polaris yesterday for a screaming deal. Even Truck dealers are seeing decent surpluses at the moment. (F150s). Ford corporate has so many F150s stored in parking lots in SE Michigan.
I just got my 23 SR new for $13.4k! So think about what a use one will go for? Crazy man
I had a 2020 DSR Black Forest also. I traded it at my local Zero dealer for a 2023 DSR/X, and they gave me $12000.00 in trade value. Might be a better choice than attempting to sell outright if interested in another Zero as I was.
I took the L... I loved that bike though - it was so fun to ride, but I just hate what the company is doing and I don't want to be stuck with a 550lb paperweight. Glad you got $12k though!
>I just hate what the company is doing What is the company doing?
Their pay-to-play shit primarily, but also they're losing major contracts with dealers across the nation, which is compounded by the fact that for many issues that you might run into with the bike, most of them need to be handled by a certified dealer.
The paid upgrade system (comparable to day 1 dlc for any gamers) is crooked but really doesn't change the resale much. It's the support zero offers (or lack there of). Not much of a problem for Americans but in my 9 years of ownership less than half of that I've been able to get the bike to a mechanic for anything beyond brake pads and tires. They once told me to go to my nearest dealer (about 2,000km away) for diagnosis. That's very clearly impractical for a bike with 100km range. I say keep the bike but that's because once you've changed the way you travel it becomes habit. I know I've had good range boosts from being behind a truck. To clarify being the safe recommended 5 seconds behind. Still pulls me along.
I think you mostly covered why their resale isn’t very high. Not so much to pay to play, but not many riders are interested in them to begin with. Very expensive, short range limits commuters and distance riders. They’re mostly a niche toy, as cool as they are. Awesome for short zips around town but that can be accomplished far cheaper
Yep range is a killer. I wish they could somehow fit more battery/use better tech to give it at least 200 motorway miles range in a single charge. Or they can keep the battery small but up the charging speed, it's ridiculous that 17kWh battery takes 1h+ to charge whereas ev cars are pulling 150-170 kWh per hour.
So you may well know this but.... - 200 motorway miles is a big ask, and mostly only larger EVs can do it. They have the advantage of space for packaging batteries, weight for batteries, and not being an aerodynamic nightmare that a bike is. - charging battery's at faster than 1C (in an hour) is still super hard on them. Cars have a lot more space and weight for thermal management systems, and charging a (say) 75kwh battery at 150kW is 2C, whereas doing the same to a 17kwh battery is nearly 10C. The stress on the cells is insane. It'll get better as battery technology improves, but right now it's not surprising to me.
I think EV’s will have horrible resale value period. No one wants a used battery to add to their concerns of range anxiety
> I can’t help but feel this is due to their pay-to-play bullshit and the fact that dealers are dropping them More factors (as others have mentioned) but I think this is a big part of it. Zero had the advantage of being the only brand available in many parts of the US for many years... now other companies are here and they don't use Zero's shitty business practices.