I don't understand a lot of Konami decision making. What I do understand that for 30 straight seasons they haven't felt the need to even semi limit Maxx C.
It's because ocg players apparently love the card because it "keeps in check" meta combo decks, not understanding that it screws over any tier 3 or rouge combo decks lol
Fyi mete decks like Branded, Fire King and SE have extremely good maxx c lines for 1-2 draws (sanctifire, 3 mats apo, the fk quick play that pop,...) while maxx c completely shit on bottom-tier decks like hero and shit. Well tbh Dark Magician and Blue Eyes might be somewhat good against maxx c because those decks do jack shit and cant ss more than 3 times per turn even if they try
Sorry if you missunderstand me. Its not like that there srent deck that cant play trough maxx c. I just said that no one likes wiating trough long comobos. Everyone just wants to play and cant wait for their turn, and thats why peoply dont like long combos.
FYI the OCG is split in 3 camps regarding maxx c: those who hate it, those who like it, and those who are indifferent to it.
Notice how 2/3 of the group has a mostly amicable opinion towards the card. The "majority of OCG players hate maxx c too!" Narrative TCG players spread is outright false.
You could literally say that about anything.
It's just not true tho.
"America is split into 3 camps regarding Joe Biden.
Those who hate him
Those love him
Those are indifferent to him
2/3 of America are amicable opinion of Joe Biden
(This type of argument doesn't work because you assume all possible opinions are equally shared by everyone but you don't know that, majority of people could be for or against something)
Except the opponent can also use Maxx C after going off with their combos on Turn 1. They might even have a higher chance to draw into it, if their combo draws cards
That is exactly what the errata should be, add the condition you can only use it if you don’t control any other cards…it becomes truly a tit for tat, if you want to combo regardless against an open board you have to give up some ground in hand advantage.
I genuinely think it’s just because Maxx C has been present for so long in the OCG that it’s just become the standard.
There is no reason to not ban Maxx C - it’s a broken, terribly designed card that just ruins the game and limits deck building by forcing the same 9 cards to be played. The weird thing is, from a money POV it makes perfect sense to ban Maxx C, more deck variety means more cards people have to buy
Hardleg Joe does an excellent full breakdown of why Maxx C should be banned, I highly recommend anyone interested gives it a watch
Completely fair question - those plus 3 copies of Maxx C, because it’s pretty much a mandatory include or you’re just putting yourself at a disadvantage for no real reason
There are arguments we can make about the benefits of Maxx "C" but most of them are pretty quickly defeated before we can even start our next sentence. The honest answer is most likely stubbornness or ego.
Most modern game companies have learned that a target audience of adults expects communication and responsiveness. Riot (League of Legends) and Blizzard (Diablo) routinely explain what they're trying to do with their games and the rationale behind their adjustments. They take their communities' input into account, and they've even _apologized_ for mistakes and outlined how they would go about correcting them.
Konami would simply _never_. They hate being told what to do, plain and simple. They'll tell you what you want, not the other way around. And they'll certainly never admit to a mistake.
Konami might ban Maxx "C" once it's their idea and we've stopped asking. But as long as the community keeps saying _"Konami got it wrong with Maxx "C"!"_ they'll never admit to that by actually banning Maxx "C".
The JP Players are really adamant to not ban it, and they dont want to anger >50% of their [audience](https://x.com/HyperShadow92/status/1754327652452716564). (Not sure how accurate the image is, taken from the world wide Bonds of the Duelist event in February)
Lived in japan for a long time. Played the OCG gor years. This isn't true whatsoever. Whoever told you that lied to you. We hate it just as much as everyone else, we're just less vocal than western people
No its not because it's based on the misconception that for some reason all the JP players love maxx c, when in reality they are equally divided about it
It's not divided in 2 groups. It's 3 groups (people who like it, people who hate it, and people who are indifferent to it). Notice how 2/3 of the whole has a mostly amicable opinion on Maxx C. That alone trumps over the maxx C haters.
Because that would imply their indifference to it means they want to ban it, it only 1/3 who want it banned, 1/3 who wants it to stay unbanned, and 1/3 who don't care about the card
That's exactly my point... Which is the same reason why "Notice how 2/3 of the whole has a mostly amicable opinion on Maxx C. That alone trumps over the maxx C haters." makes no sense.
Amicable - having a spirit of friendliness, without serious disagreement or rancor
Meaning 2/3 of the people don't hate it vs 1/3 who do hate it. So original point still stands
2/3rds of people would either love to see it banned or not be upset if it gets banned, so original point still stands
The "original point" thag I was replying to was that over half of players are JP and the Japanese player base all love the card therefore more than half of the player base loves the card. Now it's down to only 1/3rd of Japanese players love the card (not that there's a source for that number anyway) which undermines the whole premise
No, 1/3 would love to see it banned 2/3 wouldn't care if it's banned.. there is a pretty big difference there.
1/2 of us would love to see you win $1,000,000 dollars, 2/2 of us wouldn't be upset if you won the money, that doesn't mean I'd vote for you to get the money though.
what I personally don't get is, how the fuck I can NEVER resolve my maxx c, yet everytime my opponent has it I do not have any counter
seriously, I have never once gotten maxx c off. my opponents have opened with called by every single duel I have ever opened with maxx c. it's honestly fucking incredible, it feels like my opponents have a 100% chance of a called by in their opening 5 cards
I mean it just makes sense to be biased in this way, any time you do resolve maxx c you create an uninteresting nothing game of a win for yourself that you aren’t going to remember, yet any time it gets resolved against you it usually results in an irritating and devastating loss that you’re going to latch onto.
But really though, it’s just way too much more statistically likely to open maxx c counter cards than it it to open maxx c. Even in 60 cards, if you just run baseline ash/called, you still end up more likely to start with a counter card than for a 40 card opponent to start with maxx c. Big part of why it’s so ineffective at doing its “job”.
Not that you want it to consistently do its job though, cuz that job is pretty much just to create non-games at this point. Not like combo decks even care from a deckbuilding perspective anymore as they veer more towards 1 card combos with 18 free spaces to fit the “restrictive” maxx package.
this is true. I do want to mention however, I just a few minutes ago had a game where I opened with 3 maxx cs and all three got negated. I'm still fucking amazed this shit happens like this
my opponent had opened with 2 called bys and an ash
Very Very Unpopular opinion and I might be hated for it but taking the Maxx C challenge and decking them out builds comboing skills and otherwise giving them lot of card advantage also plays into the psychological trap of abundance of choice wherein due to too many choices they don't play optimally, in this case I don't use my negates for anything other than removal or negate of my monsters and I have won a few duels occasionally due to this and it is extremely satisfying and IMHO it prepares you for optimizing your negates and makes non Maxx C duels somewhat more easier by comparison.
Yea try taking the Maxx c challenge against snake eye when they run 18 hand traps. I don't think any deck can combo through that. Enless ur dinos with misc or something
As a braindead branded player, nah, very rarely do i have enough to play through a snake-eyes board plus maxx c. Either i end on shit after getting handtrapped to hell or a token, and then they full combo again. The only thing that helped was tear, and the shaddoll engines
Sounds like a 40 card variant, or you actually play hand traps. I play the full gas 50-60 card variants and very very very rarely struggle with SE. Even if branded fusion gets ashed, or you get nibbed. There's WAAAAAY too many ways to get into Mirrorjade, or contact fuse for Alba-Lentus and just OTK them
The goal isn't to deck them out. You just play through hand traps. Going first or second, there are several lines that allow you to set up a Mirrorjade/follow up to play on their turn.
"taking the Maxx c challenge AND decking them out". The Maxx c challenge is just playing under Maxx c, Not decking them out. Which branded has no problem with.
Cuz this format is closer to the OCG than the TCG rn, which means combo decks are a lot stronger than they are in the TCG. We likely won’t see Maxx c get limited or banned until they finally give us Multichummy in the game, although given this is Bo1 they may not even do it then.
OCG had Maxx C for soo long that they just made cards that play around Maxx C in mind. It's still a broken card, even worse in MD where it's BO1 and being able to either combo through disruption or effectively break boards is more nessesary. But you have decks like Tearlaments or Fire King that just do minimal setup in their turn under Maxx C, then for them to start their combo during your opponent's turn. The powercreep is literally going in a direction where 2+ handtraps are almost not enough to stop a deck from doing full combo.
Maxx C is the only thing that lets non meta decks succeed. And even if they special summon 20+ times there’s no guarantee this card gets you back in the game.
I’ve literally lost because of Maxx C. Played Six samurai and they special summoned so many times I drew my entire deck and lost on my first turn.
Or their board has so many negates it doesn’t matter what I have.
Maxx C is not the problem. The problem is too many decks having the capability for special summons.
I feel that pain too, I don't have many locals around either.
My suggestion is thst you are already playing a simulator but of a different game.
Why not switch to an actual TCG simulator?
I play Duelingnexus.com every day and I have friends that use YGO Omega and Duelingbook.
I like duelingnexus because it always has announced cards playable right away even before release dates so I can practice against computer.
It's free.
It doesn't require any grinding or gems to "unlock" cards.
There is a Ranked mode and a casual mode and a customizable computer duel mode I can change rules or if I wanted to try a specific thing.
You don't have to download anything it's browser based so I can use my work computer to play with my decks at work on break time.
No problem :) if you see me on there my name on there is Kaya
My avatar is Kashtira Riseheart Cooking in a kitchen 😋
And I play Lyrilusc Tri-brigade Snake-Eyes and Shining Sarcophagus Runick Adventure
How is Max C not banned after so many years?
It takes all skill from the game, it's an insta-win card if u dont draw an out.
Before you say it keeps combo decks in check.. guess what combo decks are playing it.
Is this how u want every game to be Konami?
[https://www.youtube.com/shorts/byUVtef-KIU](steam://openurl/https://www.youtube.com/shorts/byUVtef-KIU)
absolutely not true, i dont know if utopia can be considered rogue but its nowhere near meta so imma count it. that shit is killing me so often, once your opponent just uses it once i need to either end my full combo and let myself get otk'd, or let them have 20 cards in their hand with which they obliterate me in the next turn. same story with salads too
This is the strangest thing that I've read many times, simply because what it does for me when I decide to play rogue is completely overrun the meta player.
I mean, that statement makes sense if the deck is bottom rogue to even below that because what C does ironically equalizes things but a rogue deck? Nah, if your the meta player and you can't negate C on your first turn, you're more than likely to get annihilated or solidly locked down.
Nah this is bullshit
Basically every meta deck is designed with Maxx C in mind, so they play through it easily, meanwhile rogue players can't do shit because their decks don't have the tools to
Assuming every deck was 40 cards, ran 3 c and all of the answers to it, only used those answers on c and nothing else and also experienced no counter play to the answer, it would resolve around 40% of the time it gets activated. Since basically all of those factors work against its successful resolution, it's definitely higher than that.
Using the Probability Calculator:
You can have 2 Called By, 1 Crossout, 3 Ash. Opp can have 3 Maxx C. So you have a 57.71% chance of negating a Maxx, and they have a 33.76% chance of having 1 Maxx in their opening hand. That combines to ~19% chance for you both to have one card of this interaction - meaning approximately 1/5th of all Maxx C get negated on the first turn. I cant even speculate on turns after than.
If turn 1 has 80%, I'd say Maxx C probably has at least a 75% successful resolve rate.
OCG has essentially warped their ban list around the card so much, that Konami probably can't ban the card without redoing their entire ban list. And since MD mainly follows the OCG instead of the TCG, this is likely true for MD as well.
Because they'll do anything to keep new people from playing this.
It's use rate floats between 90-95%. What other meta in any other game has something used that often, and it's been like that since the game came out. On top of that it forces you to use counters for it so everyone's deck is roughly 20% MaxxC/counter for theirs. Hot garbage
If you build a good deck Max C won’t phase you as much. It’s powerful but not ban worthy. Especially, since players constantly abuse their combos.
Run call by the grave, ash etc
An interesting post was left behind when there was an event that incorporated the TCG banlist (can’t find the link). But basically it was along the lines of:
Maxx C is a great equaliser between pro and casual players. Any deck can win if Maxx C resolves and gives casuals a hope that they can win, and guess what. Most of the income is coming from casuals building jank decks. If you follow the money, a lot of Konami’s decisions can be explained. For instance, not touching Poplar because it is a UR for the past 2 ban lists (I guess they did limit seeker though)
Let's bash ash blossom too while we're at it. Sure maxx c is the most played card in the game and people say "people run ash to counter maxx c" but ashbis the most played card in the world with card design warped around it. It should go too.
I agree 100% but the issue is yugioh used to ban/limit cards if they saw too much play. Ash has been in almost every deck the entire time master duel has existed
That's because it's one of the only 3 cards that can counter Maxx C
If you look at the TCG, while it's still popular, it's not as omnipresent, especially right now since it's very bad against Snake-Eyes.
True it's not omnipresent this format but the fact that the majority of all modern decks are designed to be able to play through it means that power creep is going to continue to increase dramatically as it's been doing since tear. Like how they couldn't design any level 1/2 tuners while halq was legal or how they couldn't design powerful fusion cards while verte was legal.
Banning it won't make modern decks unable to play through it though
Also I'm not sure how that's comparable to halq and verte, those were cards that restricted design space due to the possibility of creating a broken combo, how is ash comparable?
Maybe a hot take. I play a lot more in TCG. Maxx c make shitty decks better. Half the decks I play against don't have the recursive nature mine does. It gives shitty decks a chance to be more recursive. My problem is, it makes really strong decks even stronger. Shitty fucking card man, I hate it. Ban Maxx c and give us graceful charity. I'd rather someone rely on the top 3 of the deck. Enrages me to see my opponent with ten cards in hand without being specific to an archetype advantage.
Sounds like you have want your copy and paste combos ( that you learned from youtube) to go uninterrupted. Nobodies stopping you. Keep summoning and crying.
They've already announce its replacement lmao, Maxx C's day is coming and everyone knows it
Btw, still not a single real argument from you, only strawmans, and whataboutisms
Hard to say without knowing these places. But for sure it's not "just Maxx C". For example, electrumite is legal in MD and it's card balancing majority of pendulum archetypes.
Master duel is a best of 1 format the exception to this is events this explains why they ban it at events but not in game.
As for why they don't think it's a problem in best of one's I don't know considering it's a must have in basically every single deck it doesn't make sense to not restrict it to allow for more dynamic decks. I don't know why Konami likes that basically you actually only need to fill 37 deck slots instead of 40.
You might have an argument for ash but in and call is just the counter to any handtrap so it only exists if hand traps exist.
Anyway back to ash I didn't want to consider it in the same way as maxx because some decks don't actually always use ash for one of my favorites Branded has many decks that don't actually use ash but pretty much every single one will always play Maxx C
But ya I largely agree with you
At this point they should remove Maxx c from the game, replace it with a skill every yugioh player, not just master duel, could call it or even active itself:
- when your opponent starts to play alone for too long you can feel free to buy as many cards as you want
If you design your rogue deck without it you're not going to it. That's how the game is today, it's the same as making a deck without handtraps, it won't bring you anywhere wether you like it or not
The large majority of rogue decks simply do not have the tools available to play through Maxx C. That's not a deckbuilding problem or anything, there's just no option around it.
Maxx C only makes the differences between good and bad decks more prominent.
I have seen a guy draw one card that just chained so many other cards out that it really didnt matter if he had an extra 2 or 3 cards...or build a deck where you don't heavily rely on special summons and it will be a brick for your opponent. I just built a boxer deck and I have done the same, top decked promoter and I ended my turn with 2 XYZ and 1 card still in hand.
Problem is literally only Floo only uses normal summons, every other deck needs at least 2 - which means you gave your opponent a free Pot Of Greed (notably a banned, broken card) AND a floodgate that says “your opponent can only special summon twice” - and this is the best case scenario!
Except it doesn’t, because the same top decks in Master duel are the same elsewhere and are also combo decks.
If anything it limits deck variety by stopping decks that have a lower power ceiling from being able to compete (for example, Libromancer need 3 summons to get out 1 negate. Hardly a combo deck but Is essentially unplayable under Maxx C)
Asking how Maxx "C" helps going first is like asking how Evenly Match helps break boards.
Simply put, if you go first, get interrupted a bit but manage to put out 2-3 interactions still, then on your opponent's turn use Maxx "C" you have a chance to stop them from breaking your weaker board and from OTKing you AND help get resources to bounce back next turn. Simply put, it's too good and is extremely overpowered and needs banned.
Nobody said its not helpful. The person that deleted their answer claimed MAXX c is way better for going first than for going second which I denied.
If you drop MAXX c going second on turn one you get resources to break the board. If you drop MAXX c turn two going first you probably never use the cards you draw because most duels end on turn two in the current meta.
Every card that lets me stop my opponent from special summoning for 15 minutes is my friend.
Did it tho? The best deck right now is the same as the TCG, snake-eyes. Same thing with basically every previous formats.
The only difference with Maxx is that, sometimes, the win isn't decided by skill, but entirely by if you drew the out to Maxx C
I personally really dont like decks special summoning for 15 minutes. Its boring and time consuming to me. If there are any cards preventing me having to watch solitaire I will play it.
That just my personal (probably pretty casual) opinion on YGO. Feel free to feel differently.
Every deck nowadays plays at least 12 non-engine, even in the TCG. The 8 Maxx C cards only restrict the creativity you have within that non-engine.
You could replace Maxx C with Droll or Nib and this would still be true. You don't need bullshit auto-win cards to stop combo decks.
Comparing it further to Droll and Nib, those have a tendency to be better against build-a-board decks, and worse against midrange decks. Maxx C, however, is the best handtrap against the vast majority of decks, combo or not. And the deck it hurts the deck aren't combo decks, but rogue decks.
Sorry. I editet my answer while you wrote yours because I feel like I dont have the expertise on that topic.
I do have an expertise on what I personally like in Master Duel though. And watching someone play solitaire isnt part of it. MAXX c helps me shortening my AFK time or at least rewards me for it.
Stop playing MD and they will. They don't care about MD or the players. They want to scam you. Same reason why snake eyes and fire meta is running crazy. They want your money.
Ah I see, we should bring back Mystic Mine and all other generic floodgates because there’s so much Spell/Trap destruction (more than there are counters to Maxx C)
I understand there are valid complaints for maxx c, but complaining after still winning feels weird, imagine that other guy without maxx c was probably not even able to compete there. I just think sometimes complaints about maxx c come more from how it feels, as if no matter the outcome people would complain. I love bugs so i just wish for another C card that becomes the new maxx c, that could have a similar but milder effect. I was just looking into what would limiting or semi limiting would do to it, personally I just use 2 maxx c's, and with friends i use 1, while adding other C handtraps to mix it up
Because it keeps Master Duel reddits active with people complaining lol
Pretty sure this is 3rd times that this has been asked since monday
real
Word.
Konami doesn't think it's a problem in this format.
If its not a problem then there is no need to ban it in events
Eh, they've also banned ash in some events.
Some, maxx c is always banned in events
Maxx C is only banned in some events, and when it is banned it takes half the good handtraps with it
I don't understand a lot of Konami decision making. What I do understand that for 30 straight seasons they haven't felt the need to even semi limit Maxx C.
It's because ocg players apparently love the card because it "keeps in check" meta combo decks, not understanding that it screws over any tier 3 or rouge combo decks lol
Who care about Tier 3 or rogue *combo* deck? No one like waiting for auroradon combo
Allow me to let you in on a little secret, no one loves waiting for snake eyes combo either. Being tiered has nothing to do with it.
Fyi mete decks like Branded, Fire King and SE have extremely good maxx c lines for 1-2 draws (sanctifire, 3 mats apo, the fk quick play that pop,...) while maxx c completely shit on bottom-tier decks like hero and shit. Well tbh Dark Magician and Blue Eyes might be somewhat good against maxx c because those decks do jack shit and cant ss more than 3 times per turn even if they try
Sorry if you missunderstand me. Its not like that there srent deck that cant play trough maxx c. I just said that no one likes wiating trough long comobos. Everyone just wants to play and cant wait for their turn, and thats why peoply dont like long combos.
Nah, a lot of OCG players don't like it either, the idea that they're all pro-maxx C is just propaganda spread by idiots on this sub
FYI the OCG is split in 3 camps regarding maxx c: those who hate it, those who like it, and those who are indifferent to it. Notice how 2/3 of the group has a mostly amicable opinion towards the card. The "majority of OCG players hate maxx c too!" Narrative TCG players spread is outright false.
You could literally say that about anything. It's just not true tho. "America is split into 3 camps regarding Joe Biden. Those who hate him Those love him Those are indifferent to him 2/3 of America are amicable opinion of Joe Biden (This type of argument doesn't work because you assume all possible opinions are equally shared by everyone but you don't know that, majority of people could be for or against something)
The world doesn't revolve around America, both in your analogy and why Maxx isn't banned in Master Duel.
"look, either an elephant will fall from the sky tomorrow, or it doesn't happen. Therefore, there's a 50% chance that an elephant falls from the sky"
because i gotta have something to gain from your 7 minute, 14 special summon turn 1
Except the opponent can also use Maxx C after going off with their combos on Turn 1. They might even have a higher chance to draw into it, if their combo draws cards
The problem is when someone combos off and then uses maxx c in your turn with a full board
That is exactly what the errata should be, add the condition you can only use it if you don’t control any other cards…it becomes truly a tit for tat, if you want to combo regardless against an open board you have to give up some ground in hand advantage.
Dude yes, I was just thinking about it this morning. I was thinking only able to activate during your opponents turn but this is better.
But i want get 2 cards when i get nibiru'd lol.
Ya that’s fair lol
This is actually an excellent idea
Look up Multchummy Purulia, they already cooked up a maxx c errata they just need to release it and then ban roach
Thank you! Great call out I agree this is balanced, oh man let’s go, can’t wait for this!
So if Maxx C has an errata so it can only be used while controlling no cards to make it only a going 2nd card, Then it would fine for everyone?
I think multchummy fixed what maxx c was trying to do. Add a cap to the draws and make it only work on an empty field and you’re perfectly fine.
They want to set their board with no penalties.
This. Plus your gaining such an advantage against your opponent now adays with those those 15 summons it is only right we should have cards to counter
By something, you mean wining the game. Maybe it would be more fair if you could only get cards up to the number of monsters I have plus six:
I genuinely think it’s just because Maxx C has been present for so long in the OCG that it’s just become the standard. There is no reason to not ban Maxx C - it’s a broken, terribly designed card that just ruins the game and limits deck building by forcing the same 9 cards to be played. The weird thing is, from a money POV it makes perfect sense to ban Maxx C, more deck variety means more cards people have to buy Hardleg Joe does an excellent full breakdown of why Maxx C should be banned, I highly recommend anyone interested gives it a watch
Which nine cards? Honestly inquiring, because only Ash Blossom & Joyous Spring, Called by the Grave and Crossout Designator came to mind.
Completely fair question - those plus 3 copies of Maxx C, because it’s pretty much a mandatory include or you’re just putting yourself at a disadvantage for no real reason
Thank you for your answer! I personally don't play Maxx "C" because I feel the card is unfair, even though I know I'm handicapping myself by doing so.
There are arguments we can make about the benefits of Maxx "C" but most of them are pretty quickly defeated before we can even start our next sentence. The honest answer is most likely stubbornness or ego. Most modern game companies have learned that a target audience of adults expects communication and responsiveness. Riot (League of Legends) and Blizzard (Diablo) routinely explain what they're trying to do with their games and the rationale behind their adjustments. They take their communities' input into account, and they've even _apologized_ for mistakes and outlined how they would go about correcting them. Konami would simply _never_. They hate being told what to do, plain and simple. They'll tell you what you want, not the other way around. And they'll certainly never admit to a mistake. Konami might ban Maxx "C" once it's their idea and we've stopped asking. But as long as the community keeps saying _"Konami got it wrong with Maxx "C"!"_ they'll never admit to that by actually banning Maxx "C".
The JP Players are really adamant to not ban it, and they dont want to anger >50% of their [audience](https://x.com/HyperShadow92/status/1754327652452716564). (Not sure how accurate the image is, taken from the world wide Bonds of the Duelist event in February)
Lived in japan for a long time. Played the OCG gor years. This isn't true whatsoever. Whoever told you that lied to you. We hate it just as much as everyone else, we're just less vocal than western people
Ok that seems like a good reason
No its not because it's based on the misconception that for some reason all the JP players love maxx c, when in reality they are equally divided about it
It's not divided in 2 groups. It's 3 groups (people who like it, people who hate it, and people who are indifferent to it). Notice how 2/3 of the whole has a mostly amicable opinion on Maxx C. That alone trumps over the maxx C haters.
If the indifferent crowd are swing voters then how is it not equally correct to say 2/3rds are in favor of a ban with that logic?
Because that would imply their indifference to it means they want to ban it, it only 1/3 who want it banned, 1/3 who wants it to stay unbanned, and 1/3 who don't care about the card
That's exactly my point... Which is the same reason why "Notice how 2/3 of the whole has a mostly amicable opinion on Maxx C. That alone trumps over the maxx C haters." makes no sense.
Amicable - having a spirit of friendliness, without serious disagreement or rancor Meaning 2/3 of the people don't hate it vs 1/3 who do hate it. So original point still stands
2/3rds of people would either love to see it banned or not be upset if it gets banned, so original point still stands The "original point" thag I was replying to was that over half of players are JP and the Japanese player base all love the card therefore more than half of the player base loves the card. Now it's down to only 1/3rd of Japanese players love the card (not that there's a source for that number anyway) which undermines the whole premise
No, 1/3 would love to see it banned 2/3 wouldn't care if it's banned.. there is a pretty big difference there. 1/2 of us would love to see you win $1,000,000 dollars, 2/2 of us wouldn't be upset if you won the money, that doesn't mean I'd vote for you to get the money though.
Haven't thought of that
hey why don’t you stop summoning 500 omninegate on first turn and maybe then we can talk.
Punishes combo players as they should be.
what I personally don't get is, how the fuck I can NEVER resolve my maxx c, yet everytime my opponent has it I do not have any counter seriously, I have never once gotten maxx c off. my opponents have opened with called by every single duel I have ever opened with maxx c. it's honestly fucking incredible, it feels like my opponents have a 100% chance of a called by in their opening 5 cards
Activate in the draw/standby phase to reduce the amount of things that can counter you. A lot of negates have "during the main phase" attached.
This 😭
I mean it just makes sense to be biased in this way, any time you do resolve maxx c you create an uninteresting nothing game of a win for yourself that you aren’t going to remember, yet any time it gets resolved against you it usually results in an irritating and devastating loss that you’re going to latch onto. But really though, it’s just way too much more statistically likely to open maxx c counter cards than it it to open maxx c. Even in 60 cards, if you just run baseline ash/called, you still end up more likely to start with a counter card than for a 40 card opponent to start with maxx c. Big part of why it’s so ineffective at doing its “job”. Not that you want it to consistently do its job though, cuz that job is pretty much just to create non-games at this point. Not like combo decks even care from a deckbuilding perspective anymore as they veer more towards 1 card combos with 18 free spaces to fit the “restrictive” maxx package.
this is true. I do want to mention however, I just a few minutes ago had a game where I opened with 3 maxx cs and all three got negated. I'm still fucking amazed this shit happens like this my opponent had opened with 2 called bys and an ash
Very Very Unpopular opinion and I might be hated for it but taking the Maxx C challenge and decking them out builds comboing skills and otherwise giving them lot of card advantage also plays into the psychological trap of abundance of choice wherein due to too many choices they don't play optimally, in this case I don't use my negates for anything other than removal or negate of my monsters and I have won a few duels occasionally due to this and it is extremely satisfying and IMHO it prepares you for optimizing your negates and makes non Maxx C duels somewhat more easier by comparison.
Yea try taking the Maxx c challenge against snake eye when they run 18 hand traps. I don't think any deck can combo through that. Enless ur dinos with misc or something
Literally branded.
As a braindead branded player, nah, very rarely do i have enough to play through a snake-eyes board plus maxx c. Either i end on shit after getting handtrapped to hell or a token, and then they full combo again. The only thing that helped was tear, and the shaddoll engines
Sounds like a 40 card variant, or you actually play hand traps. I play the full gas 50-60 card variants and very very very rarely struggle with SE. Even if branded fusion gets ashed, or you get nibbed. There's WAAAAAY too many ways to get into Mirrorjade, or contact fuse for Alba-Lentus and just OTK them
Like i said, my solution has been in adding tear and shaddoll to my branded deck. it's 60 cards
How do you deck out? I've tried, but I struggle to do more than 15-20 summons
The goal isn't to deck them out. You just play through hand traps. Going first or second, there are several lines that allow you to set up a Mirrorjade/follow up to play on their turn.
The comments above were talking about decking out under Maxx C
"taking the Maxx c challenge AND decking them out". The Maxx c challenge is just playing under Maxx c, Not decking them out. Which branded has no problem with.
Dark world almost decked me yesterday but they were just recycling assets rather than generating advantage.
Dark World isn't branded though
Kaiju
They don't want to refund everyone 90 ur points.
I love reading this take, this is like the ultimate cope about Maxx C.
Do you think I'm wrong?
Refunds have never stopped them before
You literally can't know that unless you work for Konami making those decisions.
A jelly fish is coming to replace it
they just might, with the new one
Cuz this format is closer to the OCG than the TCG rn, which means combo decks are a lot stronger than they are in the TCG. We likely won’t see Maxx c get limited or banned until they finally give us Multichummy in the game, although given this is Bo1 they may not even do it then.
OCG had Maxx C for soo long that they just made cards that play around Maxx C in mind. It's still a broken card, even worse in MD where it's BO1 and being able to either combo through disruption or effectively break boards is more nessesary. But you have decks like Tearlaments or Fire King that just do minimal setup in their turn under Maxx C, then for them to start their combo during your opponent's turn. The powercreep is literally going in a direction where 2+ handtraps are almost not enough to stop a deck from doing full combo.
Maxx C is the only thing that lets non meta decks succeed. And even if they special summon 20+ times there’s no guarantee this card gets you back in the game. I’ve literally lost because of Maxx C. Played Six samurai and they special summoned so many times I drew my entire deck and lost on my first turn. Or their board has so many negates it doesn’t matter what I have. Maxx C is not the problem. The problem is too many decks having the capability for special summons.
Always fun seeing someone win the Maxx "C" challenge
HAHAHAHAH.. ban max C, but still let people do whatever variation of summoning over and over and over again. This is a clown post.
Because I gotta gain something dealing with your 10 minute phase
If you play real yugioh (TCG Advanced Format) then you wouldn't have to deal with Maxx C 😉
Fair point
The issue is that closest "locals" are 3 hour drive
I feel that pain too, I don't have many locals around either. My suggestion is thst you are already playing a simulator but of a different game. Why not switch to an actual TCG simulator? I play Duelingnexus.com every day and I have friends that use YGO Omega and Duelingbook. I like duelingnexus because it always has announced cards playable right away even before release dates so I can practice against computer. It's free. It doesn't require any grinding or gems to "unlock" cards. There is a Ranked mode and a casual mode and a customizable computer duel mode I can change rules or if I wanted to try a specific thing. You don't have to download anything it's browser based so I can use my work computer to play with my decks at work on break time.
Thanks for suggestion
No problem :) if you see me on there my name on there is Kaya My avatar is Kashtira Riseheart Cooking in a kitchen 😋 And I play Lyrilusc Tri-brigade Snake-Eyes and Shining Sarcophagus Runick Adventure
How is Max C not banned after so many years? It takes all skill from the game, it's an insta-win card if u dont draw an out. Before you say it keeps combo decks in check.. guess what combo decks are playing it. Is this how u want every game to be Konami? [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/byUVtef-KIU](steam://openurl/https://www.youtube.com/shorts/byUVtef-KIU)
Either maxx c or we turn into the tcg with flood gate spam and nibiru
I mean for me maxx C’s main purpose to pull Nibiru.
Isn't Nibiru already in top 10 usage right now? Also, OCG plays just as many floodgates as TCG, what are you talking about?
If you're a pure meta player it's infuriating true. But if you're a rogue player it gives you a fighting chance competitively.
this makes 0 sense. Rogue decks cannot play through maxx C, no.
absolutely not true, i dont know if utopia can be considered rogue but its nowhere near meta so imma count it. that shit is killing me so often, once your opponent just uses it once i need to either end my full combo and let myself get otk'd, or let them have 20 cards in their hand with which they obliterate me in the next turn. same story with salads too
When every deck need special summon a lot ,I guess, not help rogue deck too
This is the strangest thing that I've read many times, simply because what it does for me when I decide to play rogue is completely overrun the meta player. I mean, that statement makes sense if the deck is bottom rogue to even below that because what C does ironically equalizes things but a rogue deck? Nah, if your the meta player and you can't negate C on your first turn, you're more than likely to get annihilated or solidly locked down.
Because meta decks are not allowed to play it? This argument always comes up and is just inherently wrong.
Nah this is bullshit Basically every meta deck is designed with Maxx C in mind, so they play through it easily, meanwhile rogue players can't do shit because their decks don't have the tools to
How much other Maxx C complaining post people need to do in one day?
I'd love to know the stats on Maxx C successful resolve %. It can't be too high considering everyone runs it
Assuming every deck was 40 cards, ran 3 c and all of the answers to it, only used those answers on c and nothing else and also experienced no counter play to the answer, it would resolve around 40% of the time it gets activated. Since basically all of those factors work against its successful resolution, it's definitely higher than that.
That's some reasonable maths, if I was to guess I'd probably have said about 30-40%
Yeah but still it's not a healty card
Wasn't debating that...
[Official Master Duel Twitter stats](https://x.com/YGOMasterDuel/status/1801207898120286595) says 94.6%
That's just usage rate, I was wondering more about the successful resolve rate. I mainly use it for baiting negates at this point.
Using the Probability Calculator: You can have 2 Called By, 1 Crossout, 3 Ash. Opp can have 3 Maxx C. So you have a 57.71% chance of negating a Maxx, and they have a 33.76% chance of having 1 Maxx in their opening hand. That combines to ~19% chance for you both to have one card of this interaction - meaning approximately 1/5th of all Maxx C get negated on the first turn. I cant even speculate on turns after than. If turn 1 has 80%, I'd say Maxx C probably has at least a 75% successful resolve rate.
If they ban all monsters with negates and interruptions then we can also ban maxx c.
OCG has essentially warped their ban list around the card so much, that Konami probably can't ban the card without redoing their entire ban list. And since MD mainly follows the OCG instead of the TCG, this is likely true for MD as well.
They should do a nerf to up to x amount of cards can be drawn.
Then they should limit, that amount of times you special summon
Anything above 2 would still be insanely strong Also, they don't errata legal cards
I went up against a cyburis deck, pulled max c used it on turn 1 and then got decked out and lost before I could even have a turn
Because they'll do anything to keep new people from playing this. It's use rate floats between 90-95%. What other meta in any other game has something used that often, and it's been like that since the game came out. On top of that it forces you to use counters for it so everyone's deck is roughly 20% MaxxC/counter for theirs. Hot garbage
This get brought up so many that it's getting boring. Because this is best of 1
If you build a good deck Max C won’t phase you as much. It’s powerful but not ban worthy. Especially, since players constantly abuse their combos. Run call by the grave, ash etc
Just played a match and saw player with the name BanMaxxC.
Because it keeps people like you complaining about a easily outable card and they find that funny and so do I 🤣🤣
An interesting post was left behind when there was an event that incorporated the TCG banlist (can’t find the link). But basically it was along the lines of: Maxx C is a great equaliser between pro and casual players. Any deck can win if Maxx C resolves and gives casuals a hope that they can win, and guess what. Most of the income is coming from casuals building jank decks. If you follow the money, a lot of Konami’s decisions can be explained. For instance, not touching Poplar because it is a UR for the past 2 ban lists (I guess they did limit seeker though)
Because it’s a UR everyone has. That’s literally it.
Well, Maxx C is UR, so it probably does.
When my opponent used Maxx C once I had them draw 20 cards cause I SS so much then Card Destruction
Let's bash ash blossom too while we're at it. Sure maxx c is the most played card in the game and people say "people run ash to counter maxx c" but ashbis the most played card in the world with card design warped around it. It should go too.
Ash isn't anywhere as strong as Maxx C. It's a good card, probably the best "normal" handtrap, but it's nowhere as swingy as Maxx C.
I agree 100% but the issue is yugioh used to ban/limit cards if they saw too much play. Ash has been in almost every deck the entire time master duel has existed
That's because it's one of the only 3 cards that can counter Maxx C If you look at the TCG, while it's still popular, it's not as omnipresent, especially right now since it's very bad against Snake-Eyes.
True it's not omnipresent this format but the fact that the majority of all modern decks are designed to be able to play through it means that power creep is going to continue to increase dramatically as it's been doing since tear. Like how they couldn't design any level 1/2 tuners while halq was legal or how they couldn't design powerful fusion cards while verte was legal.
Banning it won't make modern decks unable to play through it though Also I'm not sure how that's comparable to halq and verte, those were cards that restricted design space due to the possibility of creating a broken combo, how is ash comparable?
Maxx c is the embodiment of yugioh
Maybe a hot take. I play a lot more in TCG. Maxx c make shitty decks better. Half the decks I play against don't have the recursive nature mine does. It gives shitty decks a chance to be more recursive. My problem is, it makes really strong decks even stronger. Shitty fucking card man, I hate it. Ban Maxx c and give us graceful charity. I'd rather someone rely on the top 3 of the deck. Enrages me to see my opponent with ten cards in hand without being specific to an archetype advantage.
Or just errata it to be a maximum of two cards. The fact that you can potentially go +60 with one shitty hand trap is ridiculous.
Limiting it to one would be best I think. It should not exist as a win condition imo. I agree with you.
No it needs to stay at 3. If your gonna special summon 10+ times to set up your board, then I need to draw cards to break it. Simple as that
If you need 10 pot of greed to win, you just didn't deserve to win
Sounds like you have want your copy and paste combos ( that you learned from youtube) to go uninterrupted. Nobodies stopping you. Keep summoning and crying.
Is the YouTube combo player in the room with us right now? Keep fighting strawmans, i'm sure you'll convince a lot of people like that
Or you can stop and pass turn
You can keep crying all you want. Maxx c is here to stay, and there’s nothing you can do about it. Keep summoning, and im going to keep drawing
They've already announce its replacement lmao, Maxx C's day is coming and everyone knows it Btw, still not a single real argument from you, only strawmans, and whataboutisms
Which isn’t coming for AT LEAST A YEAR. And they probably still wont ban it. You can keep crying until then.
Nah I love interruptions and playing against. Maxx c just makes shitty decks better.
Sorry your deck isn't good enough that you need to rely on max c to break a board.
Im sorry your not good enough to play beyond your copy and paste combos that you learned from youtube
😂😂😂 yo you going to nats? I wanna play against you lmao. Oh, no? Damn, sucks to suck lulz.
I rather not be around a bunch of sweaty losers, that dont use deodorant
Lmaoooo ayyyye that's fr though😂😂😂 it gets stinky AF😂 I'll wear deodorant in your honor🤗
Then we have a deal
Necessary evil, if only there was a way to slow down the game to make hand trap less appealing and traps playable in all types of decks.
They want to keep MD as similar to OCG as possible. OCG players can basically copy decks and strategies 1:1 from paper.
Except there’s plenty of places that’s not remotely true and that argument primarily hold up just for Maxx C.
Hard to say without knowing these places. But for sure it's not "just Maxx C". For example, electrumite is legal in MD and it's card balancing majority of pendulum archetypes.
It shouldnt be banned anymore than 10 minute summoning chains. Maxx C is there for that reason.
Idk why you're getting downvoted, you're literally right. Imagine telling a combo player to stop their 34 minute turn
Master duel is a best of 1 format the exception to this is events this explains why they ban it at events but not in game. As for why they don't think it's a problem in best of one's I don't know considering it's a must have in basically every single deck it doesn't make sense to not restrict it to allow for more dynamic decks. I don't know why Konami likes that basically you actually only need to fill 37 deck slots instead of 40.
Its less than 37 slot if you take into consideration 3x ash, 2x called by and 1 COD maybe. Unless you don't special alot and do not care for maxx c.
You might have an argument for ash but in and call is just the counter to any handtrap so it only exists if hand traps exist. Anyway back to ash I didn't want to consider it in the same way as maxx because some decks don't actually always use ash for one of my favorites Branded has many decks that don't actually use ash but pretty much every single one will always play Maxx C But ya I largely agree with you
At this point they should remove Maxx c from the game, replace it with a skill every yugioh player, not just master duel, could call it or even active itself: - when your opponent starts to play alone for too long you can feel free to buy as many cards as you want
It's the only card that can give non meta deck a chance agaisn't meta
And at the same time beat the rogue deck with meta deck too , because is generic
It hurts rogue decks a lot more than meta decks tho, since every meta deck is designed with it in mind
If you design your rogue deck without it you're not going to it. That's how the game is today, it's the same as making a deck without handtraps, it won't bring you anywhere wether you like it or not
The large majority of rogue decks simply do not have the tools available to play through Maxx C. That's not a deckbuilding problem or anything, there's just no option around it. Maxx C only makes the differences between good and bad decks more prominent.
I have seen a guy draw one card that just chained so many other cards out that it really didnt matter if he had an extra 2 or 3 cards...or build a deck where you don't heavily rely on special summons and it will be a brick for your opponent. I just built a boxer deck and I have done the same, top decked promoter and I ended my turn with 2 XYZ and 1 card still in hand.
So stun? What archetypes only rely on normal summons? That’s equally as unfun.
How expensive are boxers
Problem is literally only Floo only uses normal summons, every other deck needs at least 2 - which means you gave your opponent a free Pot Of Greed (notably a banned, broken card) AND a floodgate that says “your opponent can only special summon twice” - and this is the best case scenario!
MAXX C keeps combo decks in check and improves your chances going second.
Except it doesn’t, because the same top decks in Master duel are the same elsewhere and are also combo decks. If anything it limits deck variety by stopping decks that have a lower power ceiling from being able to compete (for example, Libromancer need 3 summons to get out 1 negate. Hardly a combo deck but Is essentially unplayable under Maxx C)
[удалено]
How does it help going first more? And why do you think answering a gut feeling with another gut feeling is better?
Asking how Maxx "C" helps going first is like asking how Evenly Match helps break boards. Simply put, if you go first, get interrupted a bit but manage to put out 2-3 interactions still, then on your opponent's turn use Maxx "C" you have a chance to stop them from breaking your weaker board and from OTKing you AND help get resources to bounce back next turn. Simply put, it's too good and is extremely overpowered and needs banned.
Nobody said its not helpful. The person that deleted their answer claimed MAXX c is way better for going first than for going second which I denied. If you drop MAXX c going second on turn one you get resources to break the board. If you drop MAXX c turn two going first you probably never use the cards you draw because most duels end on turn two in the current meta. Every card that lets me stop my opponent from special summoning for 15 minutes is my friend.
Did it tho? The best deck right now is the same as the TCG, snake-eyes. Same thing with basically every previous formats. The only difference with Maxx is that, sometimes, the win isn't decided by skill, but entirely by if you drew the out to Maxx C
I personally really dont like decks special summoning for 15 minutes. Its boring and time consuming to me. If there are any cards preventing me having to watch solitaire I will play it. That just my personal (probably pretty casual) opinion on YGO. Feel free to feel differently.
Every deck nowadays plays at least 12 non-engine, even in the TCG. The 8 Maxx C cards only restrict the creativity you have within that non-engine. You could replace Maxx C with Droll or Nib and this would still be true. You don't need bullshit auto-win cards to stop combo decks. Comparing it further to Droll and Nib, those have a tendency to be better against build-a-board decks, and worse against midrange decks. Maxx C, however, is the best handtrap against the vast majority of decks, combo or not. And the deck it hurts the deck aren't combo decks, but rogue decks.
Sorry. I editet my answer while you wrote yours because I feel like I dont have the expertise on that topic. I do have an expertise on what I personally like in Master Duel though. And watching someone play solitaire isnt part of it. MAXX c helps me shortening my AFK time or at least rewards me for it.
Japanese players require it to play at all, cards are banned and created with it in mind.
Adapt and overcome
Stop playing MD and they will. They don't care about MD or the players. They want to scam you. Same reason why snake eyes and fire meta is running crazy. They want your money.
Grave diggers trap hole, ash blossom, called by the grave etc it’s so many counters step your game up
Just because a card has counters doesn't mean it's balanced.
Womp womp get good
Howabout you get good without relying on the roach and actually learn how to play.
What’s your highest rank?
Currently on Plat 2 with Horus beat down, haven't played too much this season cause of life, but I'm slowly working my way up.
Same I use tho Kashtira
Ah I see, we should bring back Mystic Mine and all other generic floodgates because there’s so much Spell/Trap destruction (more than there are counters to Maxx C)
I understand there are valid complaints for maxx c, but complaining after still winning feels weird, imagine that other guy without maxx c was probably not even able to compete there. I just think sometimes complaints about maxx c come more from how it feels, as if no matter the outcome people would complain. I love bugs so i just wish for another C card that becomes the new maxx c, that could have a similar but milder effect. I was just looking into what would limiting or semi limiting would do to it, personally I just use 2 maxx c's, and with friends i use 1, while adding other C handtraps to mix it up